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+WEBVTT
+
+00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.199
+Thank you for the talk. I mean, it was a fairly long one and we
+
+00:00:04.200 --> 00:00:07.999
+had two very distinct parts, one which dealt with a
+
+00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:12.079
+philosophy of Libre-Halaal software and then the application,
+
+00:00:12.080 --> 00:00:14.279
+obviously, of Bisos. So thank you so much for the
+
+00:00:14.280 --> 00:00:17.839
+presentation. Before we get started with the question, and
+
+00:00:17.840 --> 00:00:21.799
+for the record, we have about 14 minutes of question time, is
+
+00:00:21.800 --> 00:00:25.079
+there anything that you'd like to add on top of your
+
+00:00:25.080 --> 00:00:27.759
+presentation, something that perhaps would not have fit in
+
+00:00:27.760 --> 00:00:33.399
+the actual presentation format? Sure, but prior to that,
+
+00:00:33.400 --> 00:00:37.839
+félicitations à tous les Français pour le rouvrir de
+
+00:00:37.840 --> 00:00:42.719
+Notre-Dame. Thank you. I'll say thank you because I'm a
+
+00:00:42.720 --> 00:00:48.039
+Francophone and I'm also French, but OK.
+
+00:00:48.040 --> 00:00:58.159
+Yeah, so a few things have come up in various other talks,
+
+00:00:58.160 --> 00:01:04.359
+that kind of EmacsConf 2024 talks, that kind of dovetail
+
+00:01:04.360 --> 00:01:10.599
+with what I was saying. One idea was Peter Prevos's
+
+00:01:10.600 --> 00:01:20.639
+observation of working with Emacs versus working on Emacs.
+
+00:01:20.640 --> 00:01:28.279
+And I'm all for that. So the idea of BLEE is that
+
+00:01:28.280 --> 00:01:32.599
+Others can package things, and we are seeing this in the form
+
+00:01:32.600 --> 00:01:38.119
+of redistributions. There is Doom, there is Space Max, and
+
+00:01:38.120 --> 00:01:44.079
+we are seeing the evolution of Emacs into layers. So there is
+
+00:01:44.080 --> 00:01:50.119
+the core Emacs, and there are layers on top of it. And Peter
+
+00:01:50.120 --> 00:01:59.799
+also mentioned about too much choice, this notion of
+
+00:01:59.800 --> 00:02:08.919
+Not always too much choice is the right thing to have. And
+
+00:02:08.920 --> 00:02:18.279
+packaging Emacs with a layer on top of Debian gives you a
+
+00:02:18.280 --> 00:02:24.159
+platform and an environment where the choices are a lot
+
+00:02:24.160 --> 00:02:31.159
+less. And that is not necessarily a bad thing.
+
+00:02:31.160 --> 00:02:36.719
+So that was one idea. The other idea or the other theme
+
+00:02:36.720 --> 00:02:42.919
+throughout the various talks that we saw was this concept of
+
+00:02:42.920 --> 00:02:53.519
+mixing org mode with programming languages and What Babel
+
+00:02:53.520 --> 00:03:00.479
+has done is two things. One is it has successfully
+
+00:03:00.480 --> 00:03:06.799
+integrated org mode with all kinds of languages. And that
+
+00:03:06.800 --> 00:03:13.039
+has happened in the context of literate programming. Um, so
+
+00:03:13.040 --> 00:03:16.839
+a talk coming after mine is literate programming for the
+
+00:03:16.840 --> 00:03:22.399
+21st century, mixing org mode with program languages. And
+
+00:03:22.400 --> 00:03:27.359
+what I am saying is that there is an alternative and that's
+
+00:03:27.360 --> 00:03:33.839
+great, but we should also, uh, consider a traditional
+
+00:03:33.840 --> 00:03:40.159
+programming mixed with org mode and, um, Polymode is key to
+
+00:03:40.160 --> 00:03:49.239
+that. So those were some of the key concepts that I saw a
+
+00:03:49.240 --> 00:03:55.799
+resonance with as the conference went forward. Yeah, and I
+
+00:03:55.800 --> 00:03:59.959
+think, if my memory serves me right, we have another talk
+
+00:03:59.960 --> 00:04:04.199
+about hyperbole this year, right after this Q&A session.
+
+00:04:04.200 --> 00:04:07.919
+And hyperbole, it's not Org Mode, but I'm not sure if you're
+
+00:04:07.920 --> 00:04:10.359
+familiar with it, Mohsen, you might have seen it from
+
+00:04:10.360 --> 00:04:14.639
+various talks last year, but it also tends to have a similar
+
+00:04:14.640 --> 00:04:18.919
+stance than you, with the fact that text should be embedded
+
+00:04:18.920 --> 00:04:21.919
+in programming languages rather than having Org Mode
+
+00:04:21.920 --> 00:04:25.439
+implement, I mean, integrate other languages. And I found
+
+00:04:25.440 --> 00:04:28.359
+it funny that we have your talk and this talk which are about
+
+00:04:28.360 --> 00:04:32.999
+the other direction, which I find very resonating as well.
+
+00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:40.439
+Right, right, right. So in terms of other things that did not
+
+00:04:40.440 --> 00:04:46.999
+fit into my talk is that the several concepts that I
+
+00:04:47.000 --> 00:04:49.599
+introduced, namely
+
+00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:57.879
+dynamic blocks everywhere and COMEEGA.
+
+00:04:57.880 --> 00:05:07.719
+I'd be happy to expand on those by sharing your screen in due
+
+00:05:07.720 --> 00:05:12.519
+course, whatever is appropriate. Sure, considering the
+
+00:05:12.520 --> 00:05:16.119
+time that we have, we only have about 8 minutes 30 and we
+
+00:05:16.120 --> 00:05:18.999
+already have about four, five questions actually. I
+
+00:05:19.000 --> 00:05:22.599
+suggest we perhaps leave the screen sharing until later if
+
+00:05:22.600 --> 00:05:25.399
+people are interested. I mean this Q&A can last as long as you
+
+00:05:25.400 --> 00:05:30.079
+want. That makes perfect sense. OK, cool. So how about we
+
+00:05:30.080 --> 00:05:33.279
+focus on the question now and starting with the first one.
+
+NOTE Q: I'm from Brazil, which edition would you recommend?
+
+00:05:33.280 --> 00:05:36.279
+You mentioned that there are two editions, one named at
+
+00:05:36.280 --> 00:05:40.159
+Westerners and one for worldwide readers. I'm from Brazil.
+
+00:05:40.160 --> 00:05:42.599
+Which edition would you recommend? It's a Western country,
+
+00:05:42.600 --> 00:05:45.479
+but you didn't make the distinction exclusive for the
+
+00:05:45.480 --> 00:05:48.199
+second edition. So I thought it would be better to ask.
+
+00:05:48.200 --> 00:05:56.119
+Right. So definitely, I would say for everybody who is on
+
+00:05:56.120 --> 00:06:01.959
+this conference, the international edition is the right
+
+00:06:01.960 --> 00:06:11.639
+choice. In this book, I take some aggressive stance against
+
+00:06:11.640 --> 00:06:19.279
+intellectual property and I link that specifically to the
+
+00:06:19.280 --> 00:06:27.439
+American culture. So there are pieces in the book where the
+
+00:06:27.440 --> 00:06:36.399
+typical American audience may be offended. And if your skin
+
+00:06:36.400 --> 00:06:43.279
+is thick enough to deal with what I consider reasonable
+
+00:06:43.280 --> 00:06:48.319
+criticism, then the International Edition is definitely
+
+00:06:48.320 --> 00:06:54.439
+the better choice. Right. So yeah, I believe you also
+
+00:06:54.440 --> 00:06:56.959
+mentioned it. Pretty much exactly the same thing in your
+
+00:06:56.960 --> 00:07:00.239
+talk. So if you need to review, just watch the talk. And I
+
+00:07:00.240 --> 00:07:03.439
+think Mohsen also provides extra information about this.
+
+00:07:03.440 --> 00:07:07.079
+Moving on to the second question. Thank you for this talk.
+
+NOTE Q: Thank you for this talk! How does your perspective interface with works such as Yanis Varoufakis' Technofeudalism?
+
+00:07:07.080 --> 00:07:10.319
+How does your perspective interface with work such as Yanis
+
+00:07:10.320 --> 00:07:14.639
+Varoufakis' Technofeudalism?
+
+00:07:14.640 --> 00:07:24.919
+I haven't read much of that. I think there is a whole lot of
+
+00:07:24.920 --> 00:07:34.199
+global growth and collective understanding towards this
+
+00:07:34.200 --> 00:07:42.479
+notion that the direction we are headed in And by that, I mean
+
+00:07:42.480 --> 00:07:46.879
+American digital ecosystems
+
+00:07:46.880 --> 00:07:53.159
+are dangerous and that we should revisit
+
+00:07:53.160 --> 00:08:03.239
+the entirety of the model and strategy.
+
+00:08:03.240 --> 00:08:10.119
+If the person who asked the question has any additional
+
+00:08:10.120 --> 00:08:16.119
+information, I'll be happy to hear it. Sure. We'll see if the
+
+00:08:16.120 --> 00:08:19.559
+person actually comes back to this. All right. In the
+
+00:08:19.560 --> 00:08:21.979
+meantime, moving on to the next question.
+
+NOTE Q: To what extent do you agree that the introduction of proprietary systems in education creates an environment for exploitation while at the same time diluting the learning value of the curriculum?
+
+00:08:21.980 --> 00:08:22.959
+To what extent do
+
+00:08:22.960 --> 00:08:25.519
+you agree that the introduction of proprietary systems in
+
+00:08:25.520 --> 00:08:29.279
+education creates an environment for exploitation whilst
+
+00:08:29.280 --> 00:08:31.679
+at the same time diluting the learning value of the
+
+00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:34.879
+curriculum? My computing education at school amounted to
+
+00:08:34.880 --> 00:08:38.399
+learning how to use the Microsoft Office suite, i.e. the
+
+00:08:38.400 --> 00:08:44.679
+opposite of lasting open knowledge. Yeah, that's right on
+
+00:08:44.680 --> 00:08:49.719
+the mark. That's right on the mark. So the idea is that
+
+00:08:49.720 --> 00:08:55.919
+teaching and learning should be unrestricted. In the
+
+00:08:55.920 --> 00:09:02.479
+Muslim tradition and in Iranian tradition, we say that
+
+00:09:02.480 --> 00:09:12.919
+passing along the learning is the tax on having learned. So
+
+00:09:12.920 --> 00:09:20.359
+absolutely. I think it makes very little sense for the
+
+00:09:20.360 --> 00:09:27.039
+proprietary Microsoft software to be used as part of
+
+00:09:27.040 --> 00:09:33.519
+education. So the question is right on the mark. Okay,
+
+00:09:33.520 --> 00:09:38.519
+great. Let me just take a note of this. All right, moving on to
+
+00:09:38.520 --> 00:09:40.052
+the next question.
+
+NOTE Q: As a specific example of how "ownership is not clean" ...
+
+00:09:40.053 --> 00:09:43.359
+As a specific example of how ownership is
+
+00:09:43.360 --> 00:09:46.239
+not something clean, look at the Star Trek Picard series.
+
+00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:48.839
+They continuously asked Patrick Stewart to come to do
+
+00:09:48.840 --> 00:09:52.159
+another Star Trek series, but he couldn't because Star Trek
+
+00:09:52.160 --> 00:09:54.959
+changed from what it used to be, at least until they came up
+
+00:09:54.960 --> 00:09:57.999
+with a series that honored what Star Trek used to be. Does
+
+00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:21.839
+this intersect? Let me read this for a moment.
+
+00:10:21.840 --> 00:10:30.599
+Yeah, I am not sure I fully get the point, but. Let me make a
+
+00:10:30.600 --> 00:10:35.959
+point about my criticisms of the false movement
+
+00:10:35.960 --> 00:10:47.399
+in the presentation and in the book. The idea is that we have
+
+00:10:47.400 --> 00:10:53.919
+jumped on the false movement and recognize it as an
+
+00:10:53.920 --> 00:11:02.279
+alternative But we haven't looked deeply enough to see if
+
+00:11:02.280 --> 00:11:07.759
+our own philosophy and movement have problems. The
+
+00:11:07.760 --> 00:11:14.959
+problems that I note is that The first movement does not
+
+00:11:14.960 --> 00:11:21.279
+recognize clearly and explicitly that the entirety of the
+
+00:11:21.280 --> 00:11:30.399
+intellectual property rights regime is flawed. The second
+
+00:11:30.400 --> 00:11:37.239
+piece is that it's only now that we are seeing the FOSS
+
+00:11:37.240 --> 00:11:45.479
+movement is broader than the Western world. The third
+
+00:11:45.480 --> 00:11:54.919
+problem is that the labels of free software and open source
+
+00:11:54.920 --> 00:12:01.159
+are not necessarily correct. The fourth problem is that we
+
+00:12:01.160 --> 00:12:07.239
+are not paying enough attention to establishing a
+
+00:12:07.240 --> 00:12:09.999
+relationship with society.
+
+00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:16.439
+So there's a whole chapter in the book dedicated to this
+
+00:12:16.440 --> 00:12:23.959
+topic. What I'm not sure about is if I got the point of the
+
+00:12:23.960 --> 00:12:30.279
+question correctly. So again, if the person who asked the
+
+00:12:30.280 --> 00:12:35.679
+question could clarify, I'll be happy to further expand.
+
+00:12:35.680 --> 00:12:40.279
+Okay, considering the time, we only have about one minute to
+
+00:12:40.280 --> 00:12:42.959
+ten seconds until we go. So what we're going to do, as we
+
+00:12:42.960 --> 00:12:45.439
+usually do, Mohsen, is that we're going to move the stream
+
+00:12:45.440 --> 00:12:47.839
+onto the next talk. And if you want to take a little bit of time
+
+00:12:47.840 --> 00:12:51.799
+in this room to answer the question, I'm putting a link to the
+
+00:12:51.800 --> 00:12:56.519
+pad in the BBB chat so you can open it on your end. But as we are
+
+00:12:56.520 --> 00:12:59.319
+still live for 15 more seconds, do you have any last words?
+
+00:12:59.320 --> 00:13:09.039
+Keep up the good work. Those would be my last words, that the
+
+00:13:09.040 --> 00:13:14.239
+free software and the open source and Emacs are a very valid
+
+00:13:14.240 --> 00:13:24.479
+strategy for inside of IPR resistance. And thank you, Leo
+
+00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:29.719
+and Sacha and the rest of the folks for this wonderful yearly
+
+00:13:29.720 --> 00:13:33.559
+event. Well, thank you so much. And it's always a pleasure to
+
+00:13:33.560 --> 00:13:36.119
+have you. And thank you for your thankings. So we'll be
+
+00:13:36.120 --> 00:13:38.439
+moving to the next talk in 10 seconds. Mohsen, thank you so
+
+00:13:38.440 --> 00:13:47.559
+much. And I'll see you later. Thank you. Bye-bye. Bye.
+
+00:13:47.560 --> 00:13:50.159
+All right. We are off air. So thank you so much, Mohsen. I'll
+
+00:13:50.160 --> 00:13:52.559
+need to get moving to get ready for the next talk. So again,
+
+00:13:52.560 --> 00:13:54.519
+feel free to take the time you need to answer the questions.
+
+00:13:54.520 --> 00:13:56.719
+I'm going to stop sharing my screen because I need to leave.
+
+00:13:56.720 --> 00:13:59.319
+But take all the time you need. And when you're finished, you
+
+00:13:59.320 --> 00:14:04.039
+can just leave the room. OK. All right, bye-bye. Thank you.
+
+00:14:04.040 --> 00:14:23.439
+Great. I see one more person in the room.
+
+00:14:23.440 --> 00:14:35.679
+Hi, John.
+
+00:14:35.680 --> 00:14:38.079
+I was looking at the questions.
+
+00:14:38.080 --> 00:14:46.239
+To see if there is more that I can add. So.
+
+00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:54.919
+through the regard of societal impacts on ethical,
+
+00:14:54.920 --> 00:14:58.439
+philosophical and wider force community. I'm involved in
+
+00:14:58.440 --> 00:15:02.239
+politics in my country, my party is very sympathetic to
+
+00:15:02.240 --> 00:15:05.277
+force ideas and I have public...
+
+NOTE Q: Do you have any recommended reading materials designed for such an audience?
+
+00:15:05.278 --> 00:15:08.039
+Do you have any recommendation
+
+00:15:08.040 --> 00:15:12.359
+to reading materials designed for such an audience? Um,
+
+00:15:12.360 --> 00:15:17.999
+yeah, this is with regard to the last question
+
+00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:24.439
+that's on the etherpad at this moment. The idea is
+
+00:15:24.440 --> 00:15:32.199
+that my own book would be an excellent resource. I'd
+
+00:15:32.200 --> 00:15:39.279
+say the bibliography in the book contains various
+
+00:15:39.280 --> 00:15:43.039
+other pointers that could be quite useful.
+
+00:15:43.040 --> 00:15:55.399
+I'm reading again.
+
+00:15:55.400 --> 00:15:57.799
+Yeah.
+
+00:15:57.800 --> 00:16:20.159
+Very good. If there are no other questions,
+
+00:16:20.160 --> 00:16:31.839
+I think I'm going to consider this a day and move on.
+
+00:16:31.840 --> 00:16:43.760
+Thank you.
diff --git a/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-casual--reimagining-the-emacs-user-experience-with-casual-suite--charles-choi--answers.vtt b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-casual--reimagining-the-emacs-user-experience-with-casual-suite--charles-choi--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..7c6db8c8
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-casual--reimagining-the-emacs-user-experience-with-casual-suite--charles-choi--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,966 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+NOTE Opening
+
+00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.239
+Leo? I'm doing well as well and I'm so happy to have seen your
+
+00:00:05.240 --> 00:00:10.719
+talk because the interaction with Emacs is always
+
+00:00:10.720 --> 00:00:13.719
+something that I find very interesting, and stuff like
+
+00:00:13.720 --> 00:00:18.839
+Transient, stuff like Hydra before, I think they really
+
+00:00:18.840 --> 00:00:22.119
+improve the user experience of users, and I'm really glad
+
+00:00:22.120 --> 00:00:24.479
+that I've seen you talk. Perhaps just starting with the
+
+00:00:24.480 --> 00:00:27.639
+first question, do you have anything else that you'd like to
+
+00:00:27.640 --> 00:00:30.719
+add on your talk? Because we are pretty stringent with the
+
+00:00:30.720 --> 00:00:33.199
+amount of time that we give for talks, but is there anything
+
+00:00:33.200 --> 00:00:35.639
+that you would have liked to mention to people that you
+
+00:00:35.640 --> 00:00:42.719
+weren't able to fit into the talk? I think probably one of the
+
+00:00:42.720 --> 00:00:46.599
+design considerations I've done is that many of the
+
+00:00:46.600 --> 00:00:49.359
+commands that I've exposed through my casual interfaces
+
+00:00:49.360 --> 00:00:56.399
+have been in Emacs. They've been in there forever, but very
+
+00:00:56.400 --> 00:01:00.439
+few people uh, myself included really know that they're
+
+00:01:00.440 --> 00:01:05.999
+there, uh, because they're just not discoverable through,
+
+00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:09.559
+uh, basically the existing mechanisms, you know, prior to
+
+00:01:09.560 --> 00:01:13.479
+transient and which key to, to even know that those, those
+
+00:01:13.480 --> 00:01:19.399
+functions are there. Yeah. So I think I'm going to start
+
+00:01:19.400 --> 00:01:21.519
+asking you questions whilst people start writing them in a
+
+00:01:21.520 --> 00:01:25.759
+pad. But yeah, I also think that discoverability is a very
+
+00:01:25.760 --> 00:01:29.559
+huge point that having stuff like the stuff that you've
+
+00:01:29.560 --> 00:01:32.679
+showed today actually allows. One example that I'd like to
+
+00:01:32.680 --> 00:01:35.759
+give that many people tend to forget, and you've already
+
+00:01:35.760 --> 00:01:39.559
+mentioned it in your presentation, is that I've learned so
+
+00:01:39.560 --> 00:01:43.479
+much about using git in general thanks to Magit, for the
+
+00:01:43.480 --> 00:01:46.719
+reason that it shows you so many options that you might not be
+
+00:01:46.720 --> 00:01:50.799
+aware of. For instance, I like to really think about when
+
+00:01:50.800 --> 00:01:54.519
+you think about logging in git, Magit allows you to
+
+00:01:54.520 --> 00:01:58.119
+discover so many of the finer options, like I only want to
+
+00:01:58.120 --> 00:02:01.519
+see the first commit since the merge, or I only want to
+
+00:02:01.520 --> 00:02:05.999
+consider this subsection of commits going from master or
+
+00:02:06.000 --> 00:02:08.999
+main to the point of your branch. So many things like this
+
+00:02:09.000 --> 00:02:11.759
+that you get to discover thanks to Transient. So do you have
+
+00:02:11.760 --> 00:02:16.879
+any similar experience on your end? Oh yeah, far too
+
+00:02:16.880 --> 00:02:22.359
+many, particularly with EditKit,
+
+00:02:22.360 --> 00:02:28.279
+having access to these commands,
+
+00:02:28.280 --> 00:02:31.771
+particularly with different granularity on
+
+00:02:31.772 --> 00:02:34.773
+S-expressions, sentences, words...
+
+00:02:34.774 --> 00:02:37.395
+Probably the most surprising thing I found
+
+00:02:37.396 --> 00:02:43.021
+was just how how compelling the
+
+00:02:43.022 --> 00:02:49.054
+S-expression would be as a unit of text for working with.
+
+00:02:49.055 --> 00:02:53.988
+I found that in most contexts, or in many places,
+
+00:02:53.989 --> 00:03:02.719
+it did what I wanted. I found that to be very surprising.
+
+00:03:02.720 --> 00:03:06.159
+So unless you've got anything else to add, I think we can just
+
+00:03:06.160 --> 00:03:10.639
+jump into questions. Okay, certainly. I'll be reading them
+
+00:03:10.640 --> 00:03:13.599
+for you so that it's easier for you. So the first question is,
+
+NOTE Q: I wonder whether casual can only be used with the packages you
+
+00:03:13.600 --> 00:03:17.599
+I wonder whether casual can only be used with the packages
+
+00:03:17.600 --> 00:03:19.599
+you mentioned or whether it can be used with whatever
+
+00:03:19.600 --> 00:03:25.399
+packages you like. I think it's really the latter. I'm not
+
+00:03:25.400 --> 00:03:29.879
+quite sure what the... What the question was really
+
+00:03:29.880 --> 00:03:35.039
+pointing at, you know, is the question asking for why I chose
+
+00:03:35.040 --> 00:03:41.679
+the packages or the different modes that I did? Or is it, are
+
+00:03:41.680 --> 00:03:45.519
+they looking at it from a developer perspective of, can we
+
+00:03:45.520 --> 00:03:50.399
+integrate casual with other packages? I mean, since we've
+
+00:03:50.400 --> 00:03:52.839
+got a little bit of time ahead of us, feel free to answer both
+
+00:03:52.840 --> 00:03:59.279
+questions. Um, I think the answer is, uh. Well, for the 1st,
+
+00:03:59.280 --> 00:04:05.599
+1, I've, I've generally tried to stick with using. The modes
+
+00:04:05.600 --> 00:04:11.039
+that are already packaged in, um, and so there was a. A big
+
+00:04:11.040 --> 00:04:16.759
+refactoring of it where. Initially, I made separate repos
+
+00:04:16.760 --> 00:04:20.879
+for the different modes that I supported. And then through a
+
+00:04:20.880 --> 00:04:24.959
+discussion, which I won't go into here, that got changed
+
+00:04:24.960 --> 00:04:30.239
+where I consolidated all of the different transient menus
+
+00:04:30.240 --> 00:04:35.039
+for modes that are built in for behavior that's built into
+
+00:04:35.040 --> 00:04:39.199
+the Emacs. I put that into a single package called casual.
+
+00:04:39.200 --> 00:04:44.799
+And then integrations with other third party packages that
+
+00:04:44.800 --> 00:04:49.879
+are not built in were given the same standalone repo here. In
+
+00:04:49.880 --> 00:04:55.719
+terms of folks wanting to integrate that, it's the beauty of
+
+00:04:55.720 --> 00:05:01.159
+open source. They can get the repo and uh, and basically
+
+00:05:01.160 --> 00:05:05.199
+study that the code base, uh, actually, if they even install
+
+00:05:05.200 --> 00:05:08.599
+it through, uh, you know, the package manager in this case,
+
+00:05:08.600 --> 00:05:12.679
+uh, coming from the Melbourne distribution, um, they can
+
+00:05:12.680 --> 00:05:17.919
+inspect that code and, and, um, make modifications or even.
+
+00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:21.519
+uh, you know, integrate that with their other packages and,
+
+00:05:21.520 --> 00:05:25.279
+uh, do that to their heart's content. Um, I think one of the
+
+00:05:25.280 --> 00:05:29.639
+things that I need to, or at least, uh, you know, that I, I, I
+
+00:05:29.640 --> 00:05:32.519
+planned on sort of elaborating further on in the
+
+00:05:32.520 --> 00:05:36.399
+documentation is, is that transient already has built in
+
+00:05:36.400 --> 00:05:41.279
+mechanisms for modifying an existing transient. So you can
+
+00:05:41.280 --> 00:05:47.279
+add commands or, uh, re redefine the bindings. And so. That
+
+00:05:47.280 --> 00:05:51.959
+mechanism is available for users if they're not happy with
+
+00:05:51.960 --> 00:05:57.159
+those bindings or they want to add their own commands to a
+
+00:05:57.160 --> 00:06:01.959
+menu. Yeah, and people are... I'm personally familiar with
+
+00:06:01.960 --> 00:06:05.119
+this, again, with Magit, because sometimes, even though
+
+00:06:05.120 --> 00:06:07.479
+you have a lot of discoverability for functions that you may
+
+00:06:07.480 --> 00:06:10.359
+not know, sometimes you also happen to realize that
+
+00:06:10.360 --> 00:06:13.999
+something is missing in the list of available options. I'm
+
+00:06:14.000 --> 00:06:16.919
+not sure if Casual actually supports something similar to
+
+00:06:16.920 --> 00:06:21.559
+Magit, which is levels of options being displayed.
+
+00:06:21.560 --> 00:06:24.039
+Actually, I'm not sure if it's transient native or if it's
+
+00:06:24.040 --> 00:06:27.439
+just something that Magit adds over this. No, transient
+
+00:06:27.440 --> 00:06:30.599
+supports levels. I've decided
+
+00:06:30.600 --> 00:06:36.799
+in large part, I've tried to avoid that just to avoid the
+
+00:06:36.800 --> 00:06:43.119
+added complexity of trying to define those levels. Yeah, I
+
+00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:47.479
+was going to say that perhaps it doesn't gel very well with
+
+00:06:47.480 --> 00:06:49.839
+the notion of casualness that you seem to be introducing the
+
+00:06:49.840 --> 00:06:52.439
+package. On one end, you've got something that is supposed
+
+00:06:52.440 --> 00:06:56.639
+to be very casual, very easy to use, and on the other end, you
+
+00:06:56.640 --> 00:06:59.599
+add levels for stuff that is fairly advanced. So advanced
+
+00:06:59.600 --> 00:07:05.759
+versus casual, kind of makes sense that you check this over.
+
+00:07:05.760 --> 00:07:09.359
+Alright, moving to the second question which is related to
+
+00:07:09.360 --> 00:07:10.853
+the previous one.
+
+NOTE Q: Are there any patterns emerging, such that it would seem possible to 1) systematize 2) automate(?) the mapping of mode commands to keyboard-driven menus? Possibly even have an auto casual wrapper for an uncovered mode?
+
+00:07:10.854 --> 00:07:13.159
+Are there any patterns emerging such that
+
+00:07:13.160 --> 00:07:15.639
+it would be impossible, sorry, such that it would be
+
+00:07:15.640 --> 00:07:19.719
+possible to once systematize and to automate the mapping of
+
+00:07:19.720 --> 00:07:23.519
+mode commands to keyboard-driven menus, possibly even
+
+00:07:23.520 --> 00:07:26.559
+have an auto-casual wrapper for an uncovered mode? Does it
+
+00:07:26.560 --> 00:07:35.519
+make sense to you? Yes, and I've gotten these comments from a
+
+00:07:35.520 --> 00:07:42.799
+number of different folks who really want to see some sort
+
+00:07:42.800 --> 00:07:49.639
+of design rule to, or basically, what is it? Some sort of
+
+00:07:49.640 --> 00:07:54.679
+design system to be able to generate the UI.
+
+00:07:54.680 --> 00:08:01.399
+Conceptually, I think it's doable, but on the flip side, it
+
+00:08:01.400 --> 00:08:05.319
+just requires so much coordination that it makes it really
+
+00:08:05.320 --> 00:08:11.199
+untenable. In this case, I have very strong opinions. I
+
+00:08:11.200 --> 00:08:15.719
+think we're better off trying to handcraft the user
+
+00:08:15.720 --> 00:08:20.759
+interface to get basically the best user experience. To try
+
+00:08:20.760 --> 00:08:26.399
+to emulate that with a design system, good luck, but I'm not
+
+00:08:26.400 --> 00:08:31.519
+I'm not interested in working on that. Right, yeah. I think
+
+00:08:31.520 --> 00:08:34.119
+if I try to think a little more about this, it feels like
+
+00:08:34.120 --> 00:08:36.559
+there's a notion of intention that is very important when
+
+00:08:36.560 --> 00:08:41.479
+you are designing UI and UX. And to have this intention, it
+
+00:08:41.480 --> 00:08:45.319
+feels like you cannot just base yourself of a design idea to
+
+00:08:45.320 --> 00:08:48.799
+organize the options. You cannot just work off a pattern. I
+
+00:08:48.800 --> 00:08:53.599
+think you need to have the trace of human understanding in
+
+00:08:53.600 --> 00:08:56.679
+order to have a UX that really works. And judging by the
+
+00:08:56.680 --> 00:08:58.999
+option that you've picked in the demos that you've showed
+
+00:08:59.000 --> 00:09:04.039
+today, I don't think it'd be particularly easy to organize
+
+00:09:04.040 --> 00:09:07.959
+them in a UX just casually for any mode. I think you need some
+
+00:09:07.960 --> 00:09:14.159
+human introspection to understand this, if that makes
+
+00:09:14.160 --> 00:09:14.679
+sense.
+
+00:09:14.680 --> 00:09:17.279
+Moving to the next question, which is related to something
+
+00:09:17.280 --> 00:09:19.605
+we discussed about with Magit.
+
+NOTE Q: Does Casual have a log where you can see what commands were invoked?
+
+00:09:19.606 --> 00:09:21.079
+Does Casual have a log where
+
+00:09:21.080 --> 00:09:23.759
+you can see what commands were invoked? This is always
+
+00:09:23.760 --> 00:09:27.479
+available via M-x view-lossage or via the command-log-mode,
+
+00:09:27.480 --> 00:09:30.993
+but I'm wondering if it can do for Emacs command what
+
+00:09:30.994 --> 00:09:34.479
+magit-process-buffer does for learning Git commands. And for
+
+00:09:34.480 --> 00:09:37.439
+everyone who's currently in Emacs, whenever you're
+
+00:09:37.440 --> 00:09:40.639
+running a command in Magit, it's always printing the exact
+
+00:09:40.640 --> 00:09:44.799
+command that was run in a shell, inside this $
+
+00:09:44.800 --> 00:09:47.399
+menu. So does Casual actually provide something similar,
+
+00:09:47.400 --> 00:09:52.599
+Charles? I don't know. In general, because I'm building off
+
+00:09:52.600 --> 00:09:55.199
+of transient, it would have to be a mechanism that's
+
+00:09:55.200 --> 00:10:01.519
+available through transient. And You know, I would let
+
+00:10:01.520 --> 00:10:06.799
+Jonas speak more on that capability, because to be honest, I
+
+00:10:06.800 --> 00:10:14.879
+mean, even to my knowledge of transient is not that deep,
+
+00:10:14.880 --> 00:10:16.839
+actually.
+
+00:10:16.840 --> 00:10:21.399
+Well, it's funny that you say this because even though you
+
+00:10:21.400 --> 00:10:23.759
+say your knowledge might not be that big, you still managed
+
+00:10:23.760 --> 00:10:27.239
+to develop a whole suite of tools on top of it. So as far as
+
+00:10:27.240 --> 00:10:29.599
+people who do not know transient a whole lot, you're doing a
+
+00:10:29.600 --> 00:10:33.159
+pretty damn good job. Let me tell you that much. Thank you.
+
+00:10:33.160 --> 00:10:37.719
+Yeah, I think sort of what I bring to the table is, you know,
+
+00:10:37.720 --> 00:10:41.919
+quite a considerable career in software development on
+
+00:10:41.920 --> 00:10:47.879
+other software ecosystems. And as of late, I've spent
+
+00:10:47.880 --> 00:10:52.439
+basically the past decade working on iOS apps. Right. I
+
+00:10:52.440 --> 00:10:55.199
+think it's refreshing to be able to go back to something that
+
+00:10:55.200 --> 00:10:56.839
+looks like Emacs after iOS.
+
+00:10:56.840 --> 00:11:03.879
+Well, that's perhaps another longer conversation there.
+
+00:11:03.880 --> 00:11:08.599
+Speaking of longer conversation, we have only about 10
+
+00:11:08.600 --> 00:11:11.599
+minutes left until we need to move on to the next talk. But
+
+00:11:11.600 --> 00:11:13.759
+thank you everyone for all the questions you're asking. I'm
+
+00:11:13.760 --> 00:11:17.239
+not saying this because we finished, but it's good to see so
+
+00:11:17.240 --> 00:11:19.919
+many people writing in the chat and asking questions. It
+
+00:11:19.920 --> 00:11:23.079
+always shows that you're interested and that's always
+
+00:11:23.080 --> 00:11:26.079
+lovely to us. And you've mentioned Jonas. Obviously, we're
+
+00:11:26.080 --> 00:11:29.359
+talking about Jonas Bernoulli, i.e. Tarsius, the
+
+00:11:29.360 --> 00:11:33.439
+maintainer of transient. And what Charles just mentioned
+
+00:11:33.440 --> 00:11:37.559
+about having a transient tooling to print the lossage,
+
+00:11:37.560 --> 00:11:43.039
+basically, of which sex were run by which command, feels
+
+00:11:43.040 --> 00:11:44.839
+like this is something that would be interesting. So,
+
+00:11:44.840 --> 00:11:50.239
+perhaps, I'm not sure if Tarsius is still on the chat
+
+00:11:50.240 --> 00:11:52.639
+currently, but he was definitely around earlier today, so
+
+00:11:52.640 --> 00:11:55.839
+we'll make sure that the ID lands on his lap later on. All
+
+00:11:55.840 --> 00:12:00.203
+right, moving to the next question.
+
+NOTE Q: Is there a setting to close menu after executing command?
+
+00:12:00.204 --> 00:12:00.919
+Is there a setting to
+
+00:12:00.920 --> 00:12:07.479
+close menu after executing a command? By default, it will.
+
+00:12:07.480 --> 00:12:10.879
+There's a slot that you can define in a transient
+
+00:12:10.880 --> 00:12:17.199
+prefix called :transient. And if you set that to true,
+
+00:12:17.200 --> 00:12:20.639
+then it will persist the menu after executing the command.
+
+00:12:20.640 --> 00:12:26.159
+But by default, it will actually dismiss the menu. This
+
+00:12:26.160 --> 00:12:29.359
+feels... Did you actually get to play with Hydra before
+
+00:12:29.360 --> 00:12:36.279
+playing with transients? To be honest, no. Yeah, I kind of
+
+00:12:36.280 --> 00:12:41.719
+slept on Hydra or at least, you know, I really wasn't all that
+
+00:12:41.720 --> 00:12:44.639
+ambitious with working with different packages until
+
+00:12:44.640 --> 00:12:48.639
+about like, a little less than 2 years ago or so.
+
+00:12:48.640 --> 00:12:57.639
+And then the other part was also, um. You know, not not really
+
+00:12:57.640 --> 00:13:01.999
+a technical. Start a comparison because I really don't want
+
+00:13:02.000 --> 00:13:05.759
+to upset folks here, but, uh. But more along the lines of just
+
+00:13:05.760 --> 00:13:09.559
+going with the notion that transient was being built in or
+
+00:13:09.560 --> 00:13:15.279
+packaged as a built in package for Emacs. I went with using
+
+00:13:15.280 --> 00:13:20.679
+that for my implementation. Cool. And I don't think there's
+
+00:13:20.680 --> 00:13:23.199
+anything controversial with what you're saying right now
+
+00:13:23.200 --> 00:13:28.839
+because, you know, we had earlier today, Euro Rechenko, the
+
+00:13:28.840 --> 00:13:32.439
+new maintainer of Augment, mentioning that he'd like to
+
+00:13:32.440 --> 00:13:34.319
+have a better integration with Transient because
+
+00:13:34.320 --> 00:13:39.159
+Transient is, it looks like it's here to stay for a long time
+
+00:13:39.160 --> 00:13:42.879
+and might even land in core at some point. So, it definitely
+
+00:13:42.880 --> 00:13:49.519
+feels comparing Hydra because for me, most of my UI needs in
+
+00:13:49.520 --> 00:13:54.439
+Emacs prior to Transient were done via Hydra because it was a
+
+00:13:54.440 --> 00:13:57.799
+very convenient tooling. For people who do not know, Hydra
+
+00:13:57.800 --> 00:14:02.919
+is written by AboAbo. who's also authored packages like
+
+00:14:02.920 --> 00:14:08.639
+Lispy, an interactive Lisp mode, also for Ivy, which you
+
+00:14:08.640 --> 00:14:14.239
+might know as the counterpart of Helm, maybe five years ago.
+
+00:14:14.240 --> 00:14:17.959
+So all those packages, they were very innovative for the
+
+00:14:17.960 --> 00:14:21.199
+time and it's cool to see that some of the ideas which were
+
+00:14:21.200 --> 00:14:28.039
+introduced by IV and Helm and all this are then taken by tools
+
+00:14:28.040 --> 00:14:30.279
+like Transient and done perhaps with a little more
+
+00:14:30.280 --> 00:14:33.639
+hindsight now that people have experienced a little more of
+
+00:14:33.640 --> 00:14:38.359
+it. Okay, we have still a little bit of time. Moving on to the
+
+00:14:38.360 --> 00:14:40.281
+next question.
+
+NOTE Q: What modes are you working on at the moment for casual / are excited to explore?
+
+00:14:40.282 --> 00:14:41.919
+What modes are you working on at the moment
+
+00:14:41.920 --> 00:14:44.159
+for Casual or are you excited to explore?
+
+00:14:44.160 --> 00:14:53.999
+Well, so I just recently published one for calendar. And so I
+
+00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:56.839
+think the calendar interface has a lot of really
+
+00:14:56.840 --> 00:15:00.479
+interesting behavior, particularly its support for
+
+00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:07.479
+non-Gregorian events, which is, you know, for folks who'd
+
+00:15:07.480 --> 00:15:13.079
+like, in my case, looking at the lunar calendar, it's great
+
+00:15:13.080 --> 00:15:17.799
+to have tooling to be able to not have to leave Emacs to figure
+
+00:15:17.800 --> 00:15:19.759
+out when a lunar date is.
+
+00:15:19.760 --> 00:15:29.599
+Then, I think, you know, for the most part, My work on casual
+
+00:15:29.600 --> 00:15:34.959
+was really kind of my summer of code for Emacs here. And so in
+
+00:15:34.960 --> 00:15:41.519
+many ways, the velocity of casual development is going to
+
+00:15:41.520 --> 00:15:48.919
+slow down where I've got a big bulk of the modes that I really
+
+00:15:48.920 --> 00:15:57.519
+wanted to take care of. Um, I think one experimental thing
+
+00:15:57.520 --> 00:16:00.999
+that I think is very unbaked, but I would, you know, if folks
+
+00:16:01.000 --> 00:16:06.879
+are interested, uh, maybe looking at it is, uh, taking a look
+
+00:16:06.880 --> 00:16:13.079
+at edebug and trying to make that an easier thing to do. Um,
+
+00:16:13.080 --> 00:16:18.359
+that is ambitious. Uh, yeah, so maybe too ambitious.
+
+00:16:18.360 --> 00:16:23.713
+Uh, other things are like really scary projects.
+
+00:16:23.714 --> 00:16:25.195
+And so, not to say that
+
+00:16:25.196 --> 00:16:28.319
+I really have a desire to do it, but another
+
+00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:33.239
+one would be ediff. Right. Okay. Relitigating it's
+
+00:16:33.240 --> 00:16:43.639
+interface, um, to have a transient menu. I say
+
+00:16:43.640 --> 00:16:47.919
+these things, but I'm also scared of those things. Yeah, I
+
+00:16:47.920 --> 00:16:50.719
+mean, I think it's a lovely way to tackle the project,
+
+00:16:50.720 --> 00:16:55.479
+really, because you are fully aware that edebug and ediffs
+
+00:16:55.480 --> 00:16:59.399
+are mastodons when it comes to Emacs. They work very well. If
+
+00:16:59.400 --> 00:17:02.639
+you've ever tried to do a conflict resolution in Magit and
+
+00:17:02.640 --> 00:17:07.199
+you've pressed e, that usually opens ediff for you. If you
+
+00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:09.959
+happen to know how it works, it's amazing, but if you do not know
+
+00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:13.719
+it works, the interface is a little... It's a lot to take in
+
+00:17:13.720 --> 00:17:20.879
+at the moment. You have to know a, b, w... I can, and I
+
+00:17:20.880 --> 00:17:24.439
+can never remember which one is the lower and which one is the
+
+00:17:24.440 --> 00:17:27.359
+upper. Like, it constantly goes in different directions. I
+
+00:17:27.360 --> 00:17:29.719
+can never remember which is the commit I'm trying to merge,
+
+00:17:29.720 --> 00:17:32.759
+which is the commit I'm currently being on. It has nothing to
+
+00:17:32.760 --> 00:17:36.839
+do with Magit. It's merely Git and the way they conceive
+
+00:17:36.840 --> 00:17:39.719
+this. And probably, there might be a very nice way to
+
+00:17:39.720 --> 00:17:42.079
+remember it, but I still haven't found it after 10 years as a
+
+00:17:42.080 --> 00:17:44.919
+software developer. So, I guess I need to dig a little
+
+00:17:44.920 --> 00:17:48.519
+deeper. But what I find lovely about the approach is that for
+
+00:17:48.520 --> 00:17:52.599
+you, working on the interface to those tools is actually
+
+00:17:52.600 --> 00:17:55.159
+something that allows you to discover how they work, but
+
+00:17:55.160 --> 00:17:59.119
+also how to make it more easy for people to understand how
+
+00:17:59.120 --> 00:18:02.039
+those tools work. So you're doing the work of
+
+00:18:02.040 --> 00:18:05.399
+understanding, of digesting a lot of the commands, so that
+
+00:18:05.400 --> 00:18:08.599
+people do not have to go through the same pain as you have. So I
+
+00:18:08.600 --> 00:18:14.279
+find this a very noble endeavor in a way.
+
+NOTE Getting older
+
+00:18:14.280 --> 00:18:18.559
+In so many ways, as perhaps I've mentioned
+
+00:18:18.560 --> 00:18:23.639
+in my talk, I'm getting older. I can't remember all
+
+00:18:23.640 --> 00:18:28.759
+these damn commands and my hand dexterity is failing. I
+
+00:18:28.760 --> 00:18:33.199
+mean, there's so many. Like multiple keystroke
+
+00:18:33.200 --> 00:18:37.479
+bindings, which I absolutely loathe. At most,
+
+00:18:37.480 --> 00:18:40.799
+like I can, I can only physically handle like, two
+
+00:18:40.800 --> 00:18:47.799
+characters, three maybe, at a time. So maybe
+
+00:18:47.800 --> 00:18:51.239
+that's just me, and others may
+
+00:18:51.240 --> 00:18:55.999
+feel differently, but at the same time,
+
+00:18:56.000 --> 00:19:01.519
+the work that I've invested here is has been very personal
+
+00:19:01.520 --> 00:19:06.239
+for me because I just don't want to work that hard, and I want to
+
+00:19:06.240 --> 00:19:11.159
+keep using Emacs. Yeah, and that's again a very good
+
+00:19:11.160 --> 00:19:13.719
+endeavor, I think, to have. And there's one last thing that
+
+00:19:13.720 --> 00:19:16.039
+I'd like to mention, because you've mentioned this project
+
+00:19:16.040 --> 00:19:19.879
+of yours, Casual, being some kind of summer of code, with the
+
+00:19:19.880 --> 00:19:22.399
+implication that you've worked a whole lot of it during the
+
+00:19:22.400 --> 00:19:26.919
+summer or during this period. and perhaps investment will
+
+00:19:26.920 --> 00:19:31.119
+die down a little bit now. But I think it's completely fine to
+
+00:19:31.120 --> 00:19:33.879
+have moments when you feel particularly excited and you do a
+
+00:19:33.880 --> 00:19:36.959
+lot of work, and sometimes it dies down a little bit.
+
+00:19:36.960 --> 00:19:41.439
+Personally, I've been... Four years ago, I was working a lot
+
+00:19:41.440 --> 00:19:44.679
+on Org Roam and I had my Summer of Code on Org Roam. And that was
+
+00:19:44.680 --> 00:19:47.159
+great. I was able to do a lot of things, to get a lot of things
+
+00:19:47.160 --> 00:19:50.559
+out of my head. But eventually, you know, you have to go make
+
+00:19:50.560 --> 00:19:53.279
+some money to survive or you have to take care of family and
+
+00:19:53.280 --> 00:19:56.399
+stuff like this. So, life tends to get in the way of your
+
+00:19:56.400 --> 00:20:00.519
+hobbies, especially when, you know, it's so... It's
+
+00:20:00.520 --> 00:20:03.239
+hobbies that involve so much of your time to get things
+
+00:20:03.240 --> 00:20:07.879
+right, like programming does. But, you know, we appreciate
+
+00:20:07.880 --> 00:20:09.799
+all the work you've done, Charles, and the fact that you've
+
+00:20:09.800 --> 00:20:12.679
+put it out there for people to enjoy. It's already a victory.
+
+00:20:12.680 --> 00:20:14.999
+You don't need to feel compelled to keep working on it
+
+00:20:15.000 --> 00:20:18.159
+because ultimately, as you said, the beauty of open source
+
+00:20:18.160 --> 00:20:21.759
+is that people can just send PRs and get the project going
+
+00:20:21.760 --> 00:20:28.519
+again. Yeah. I mean, and if anything, you know, folks have
+
+00:20:28.520 --> 00:20:33.319
+expressed to me that, you know, in many ways, a lot of this
+
+00:20:33.320 --> 00:20:37.959
+stuff should be, you know, sort of folded in the core. And,
+
+00:20:37.960 --> 00:20:45.159
+you know, I would love to see at least the ideals of, or at
+
+00:20:45.160 --> 00:20:49.319
+least an openness into thinking, rethinking the interface
+
+00:20:49.320 --> 00:20:54.119
+for Emacs. So, you know, it doesn't have to be, basically
+
+00:20:54.120 --> 00:20:59.119
+work the way it worked for basically the last half of the 20th
+
+00:20:59.120 --> 00:21:03.519
+century here. Yeah, Emacs is flexible enough to have
+
+00:21:03.520 --> 00:21:10.279
+different approaches and, you know, transient is one
+
+00:21:10.280 --> 00:21:17.759
+approach, but at the same time, you know, the ability to
+
+00:21:17.760 --> 00:21:22.559
+reimagine the user interface for, you know, the computing
+
+00:21:22.560 --> 00:21:28.159
+needs, you know, for basically users needs today, whether
+
+00:21:28.160 --> 00:21:33.119
+you write or code or anything of that nature, I think is an
+
+00:21:33.120 --> 00:21:39.039
+exciting and great thing. Yeah, well, thank you so much for
+
+00:21:39.040 --> 00:21:41.639
+this conclusion. So I'm a little sorry, because sadly, we
+
+00:21:41.640 --> 00:21:45.919
+needed to move the stream to the next talk. So we've lost
+
+00:21:45.920 --> 00:21:49.639
+about 20 seconds of what you said. But don't worry, whatever
+
+00:21:49.640 --> 00:21:51.999
+you've said will be available on the website. I didn't want
+
+00:21:52.000 --> 00:21:55.759
+to interrupt, sadly, because I didn't want to be rude. But I
+
+00:21:55.760 --> 00:21:58.679
+think we did a great job answering the questions. So thank
+
+00:21:58.680 --> 00:22:01.199
+you so much for taking the time. I'll need to get going,
+
+00:22:01.200 --> 00:22:02.759
+because we might have a problem with the next talk. So thank
+
+00:22:02.760 --> 00:22:05.919
+you so much, Charles. Certainly. Take care. Thank you.
+
+00:22:05.920 --> 00:22:12.120
+Appreciate it. Bye.
diff --git a/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-color--colour-your-emacs-with-ease--ryota--answers.vtt b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-color--colour-your-emacs-with-ease--ryota--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..b27008a3
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-color--colour-your-emacs-with-ease--ryota--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,747 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+00:00.169 --> 00:01.830
+... Org mode and kind of note taking. And that meant that it wasn't
+
+00:02.810 --> 00:08.532
+too difficult to get started with. But when I started more on
+
+00:08.972 --> 00:15.474
+the coding side, because I'm a software engineer, you know,
+
+00:08.972 --> 00:15.474
+on the day job. That kind of got me to think that the colors and
+
+00:16.366 --> 00:24.790
+how themes look, how Emacs looks, was affecting. And that's
+
+00:25.331 --> 00:28.973
+how it kind of came to picture. So I could have kind of gone
+
+00:29.073 --> 00:36.917
+into a little bit more coding side of things, but I didn't
+
+00:29.073 --> 00:36.917
+want to stress too much on the talk. So that's why I kind of
+
+00:36.957 --> 00:41.919
+stuck to a very small bits of Org Mode and Elisp. And yeah, I
+
+00:42.319 --> 00:45.321
+think that's how it came about. Yeah, but that's perfectly
+
+00:46.536 --> 00:48.577
+fine. That's one of the chief reasons why we have two tracks
+
+00:49.437 --> 00:52.778
+for Emacs content. We've had those for the last four years, I
+
+00:52.798 --> 00:55.059
+think. It's because we have a general track, which is more
+
+00:55.119 --> 01:05.442
+geared towards people who want a general... well,
+
+00:55.119 --> 01:05.442
+generally people who are highly interested into org mode
+
+00:55.119 --> 01:05.442
+and not necessarily into coding, but just to whet their
+
+00:55.119 --> 01:05.442
+appetite to what can be done. And on the DevTrack, we have,
+
+01:06.082 --> 01:12.986
+well, this year we have talked about Rust and about other
+
+01:06.082 --> 01:12.986
+fancy things that people can do with Emacs. But, you know,
+
+01:13.006 --> 01:15.768
+I'm also a software engineer, you know, we do this all the
+
+01:13.006 --> 01:15.768
+time. Sometimes it's just fine to just chat about colors and
+
+01:15.808 --> 01:21.751
+just the results of what we develop rather than how the
+
+01:15.808 --> 01:21.751
+sausage is made. So that's completely fine too. I'm not sure
+
+NOTE Why colour?
+
+01:23.733 --> 01:32.618
+if you mentioned it in your presentation, but why color, out
+
+01:23.733 --> 01:32.618
+of all the things you could be ricing on your setup, why were
+
+01:23.733 --> 01:32.618
+you so interested about colors? I think it was just that
+
+01:34.870 --> 01:41.176
+mainly that I had to do a lot of context switch between
+
+01:34.870 --> 01:41.176
+different languages. Elisp is not the one because Elisp is
+
+01:41.576 --> 01:46.600
+something that I would do for Emacs editing. But for day job,
+
+01:47.061 --> 01:52.385
+I had to use mainly Go as I work with Kubernetes quite a bit. So
+
+01:52.525 --> 01:57.109
+Go and also web languages like TypeScript, JavaScript, you
+
+01:58.090 --> 02:13.642
+know, those languages, where I felt that whenever I was
+
+01:58.090 --> 02:13.642
+switching context to a different language, I felt that it's
+
+01:58.090 --> 02:13.642
+kind of annoying to see all the different colors in
+
+01:58.090 --> 02:13.642
+languages like TypeScript, where, you know, VS Code way
+
+01:58.090 --> 02:13.642
+would be very full of colors. which I felt that, okay, like,
+
+02:14.262 --> 02:23.569
+why do I have to have that many different colors on let and
+
+02:14.262 --> 02:23.569
+constant or the keywords where it could be just a white text?
+
+02:23.789 --> 02:25.170
+It didn't have to be that colorful. So that was the bit, the
+
+02:25.890 --> 02:30.373
+most annoying bit when it came to context switching. And I
+
+02:30.974 --> 02:35.197
+felt that that just didn't happen in the Org Mode or writing
+
+02:30.974 --> 02:35.197
+in general. So I had to find a way to make it work, make more
+
+02:36.017 --> 02:41.481
+coding make my coding more kind of friendly to me and that's
+
+02:42.173 --> 02:59.576
+when I thought maybe just the colors are something that's
+
+02:42.173 --> 02:59.576
+bothering me and it actually was the case and that's how I got
+
+02:42.173 --> 02:59.576
+to more into the color kind of journey and got too much into it
+
+02:42.173 --> 02:59.576
+I guess. Right, and was it what eventually motivated you to
+
+NOTE What motivated you to learn Elisp and get into the Emacs core?
+
+03:00.535 --> 03:05.778
+learn Elisp and to get into the Emacs core? Because it's
+
+03:05.798 --> 03:22.406
+funny how you find plenty of people using Emacs in Org Mode
+
+03:05.798 --> 03:22.406
+and then they find something that they take particular
+
+03:05.798 --> 03:22.406
+issue with, for you it's the color, and then they just go all
+
+03:05.798 --> 03:22.406
+in trying to pull the rope as far as they can to try to
+
+03:05.798 --> 03:22.406
+understand as much as possible about what code is managing
+
+03:05.798 --> 03:22.406
+this part of the application. Like for you it was color, for
+
+03:22.786 --> 03:25.047
+me it was the org agenda, I desperately wanted to make Org
+
+03:25.367 --> 03:30.692
+Agenda do something that it wasn't able to do. And five
+
+03:31.433 --> 03:36.318
+years, well, actually, no, 10 years later, I find myself
+
+03:31.433 --> 03:36.318
+hosting Emacs Cons. So, you never know just how far you're
+
+03:36.598 --> 03:39.201
+going to be pulling this rope. So, it's really interesting
+
+03:39.561 --> 03:42.224
+for me that my call was this. But back to the question, is this
+
+03:42.464 --> 03:48.150
+what eventually motivated you to get into Elisp and the core
+
+03:42.464 --> 03:48.150
+of Emacs? I think that the original journey to move to Emacs
+
+03:49.798 --> 04:02.250
+was around keybindings that I got annoyed with with other
+
+03:49.798 --> 04:02.250
+solutions, not just, you know, not speaking of Emacs
+
+03:49.798 --> 04:02.250
+keybinding or anything, like anything in general. The main
+
+04:02.870 --> 04:09.797
+reason was that I used Dovrak keyboard layout, and that
+
+04:02.870 --> 04:09.797
+meant that all the C-c, C-v, C-p, whatever, It just is
+
+04:10.257 --> 04:11.417
+all over the place. So I had to find something that could work
+
+04:11.577 --> 04:14.298
+for me. And Emacs was a solution that allowed me to do
+
+04:14.898 --> 04:17.499
+anything. And that's the kind of the journey that it
+
+04:18.019 --> 04:21.519
+originally started. And from there, started tweaking org
+
+04:21.599 --> 04:28.421
+mode and writing experience to be tuned to my liking. Color
+
+04:29.101 --> 04:33.682
+was another thing that I thought, OK, maybe I could do it
+
+04:29.101 --> 04:33.682
+easily with org mode. And when I started to use more of the
+
+04:34.262 --> 04:37.983
+coding side of things on Emacs, I felt that, okay, that was
+
+04:39.355 --> 04:41.697
+something I needed to solve. So Elisp was always kind of
+
+04:41.877 --> 04:48.022
+just a toolkit that, you know, I knew that it was available. I
+
+04:48.322 --> 04:52.105
+knew that it would be something that I want to be able to use.
+
+04:52.646 --> 04:58.090
+So I think in a way color was a good segue to understand how I
+
+04:52.646 --> 04:58.090
+can kind of work out more of a complex logic with the editor
+
+04:59.136 --> 05:07.220
+without having to write JavaScript or things that I don't
+
+04:59.136 --> 05:07.220
+particularly like. So yeah, I think the journey around the
+
+05:07.440 --> 05:13.583
+functional languages, functional kind of programming was
+
+05:07.440 --> 05:13.583
+always something that I was keen about. And yeah, the whole
+
+05:13.943 --> 05:16.644
+journey kind of made sense for me. And then moving on to the
+
+05:16.984 --> 05:21.246
+color was just one way to get more involved in. So I can
+
+05:21.406 --> 05:27.069
+totally see that this journey kind of making to a little bit
+
+05:21.406 --> 05:27.069
+different angle But yeah, we shall see how that really turns
+
+05:27.669 --> 05:30.972
+out. But for now, I think I'm happy with the color setup. Now I
+
+05:33.514 --> 05:35.095
+can really focus on the coding. Well, that's all good. And
+
+05:37.156 --> 05:44.162
+I'm sure plenty of people listening to you now, you know,
+
+05:37.156 --> 05:44.162
+find this relatable, how they eventually got into
+
+05:37.156 --> 05:44.162
+programming. Like for you, you did say that you were a
+
+05:44.222 --> 05:47.745
+software engineer now. But I found plenty of people,
+
+05:48.705 --> 05:53.469
+especially doing workshops, that just started you know,
+
+05:54.339 --> 06:01.267
+their software engineering journey just with Emacs and
+
+05:54.339 --> 06:01.267
+they just realized they were doing something completely
+
+05:54.339 --> 06:01.267
+different, like I was studying humanities. But then you
+
+06:01.787 --> 00:06:02.687
+touch Emacs and you realize, yeah, this whole programming
+
+06:01.787 --> 06:06.693
+shtick is actually pretty damn cool.
+
+00:06:07.280 --> 00:06:09.399
+And then you find yourself again,
+
+00:06:09.400 --> 00:06:11.039
+five to 10 years later, becoming a software
+
+00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:12.919
+engineer. So yeah, that's all good.
+
+00:06:12.920 --> 00:06:14.519
+So we do have a couple of
+
+00:06:14.520 --> 00:06:18.439
+questions and I'd like to move into them so that I, I mean,
+
+00:06:18.440 --> 00:06:22.439
+people have questions and for me it's okay for me to chat with
+
+00:06:22.440 --> 00:06:25.119
+you but obviously it's better if people ask you the question
+
+00:06:25.120 --> 00:06:27.679
+themselves. And again, if you want to ask questions to Ryota
+
+00:06:27.680 --> 00:06:31.079
+directly, feel free to join us on BBB and whenever we're done
+
+00:06:31.080 --> 00:06:33.519
+with the questions on the pad, I'm more than happy
+
+00:06:33.520 --> 00:06:34.444
+to let you ask your questions live.
+
+NOTE Q: Is there any intention to create a library for working with more experimental color spaces? Pulling code out of Hasliberg for this purpose, perhaps?
+
+06:35.982 --> 00:06:37.902
+All right, so starting with the first question,
+
+00:06:37.903 --> 00:06:45.108
+is there any intention to create a library
+
+00:06:37.903 --> 06:45.108
+for working with more experimental color spaces, pulling
+
+06:35.982 --> 06:45.108
+code out of Hasliberg for this purpose, perhaps? Although I
+
+06:45.329 --> 06:46.049
+do not know. Hasliberg, you might? Yeah, Hasliberg. And to
+
+06:49.692 --> 06:50.892
+answer the question, started the journey just for myself
+
+06:52.859 --> 07:04.331
+and I didn't think that it would be actually useful for other
+
+06:52.859 --> 07:04.331
+use cases and this conference talk just came about kind of
+
+06:52.859 --> 07:04.331
+out of sheer luck really. So the idea I think I can definitely
+
+07:04.771 --> 07:14.501
+work it out and I don't think there will be too, the original
+
+07:04.771 --> 07:14.501
+code that I started with was I had to use some color space and I
+
+07:15.931 --> 07:21.595
+started with sRGB and then went to HSL and then went to LCH. So
+
+07:21.996 --> 07:24.678
+I think there has been quite a bit that I learned from it. At
+
+07:25.458 --> 07:33.885
+the same time, I may be tempted to actually maybe perhaps
+
+07:25.458 --> 07:33.885
+contribute back to ct.el rather than creating my own. I
+
+07:34.105 --> 07:36.227
+think that would make more sense perhaps.
+
+07:36.607 --> 00:07:39.548
+But for my own kind of taste that I thought
+
+00:07:39.549 --> 00:07:42.891
+that it would be something I can work out in my theme,
+
+00:07:42.892 --> 00:07:44.273
+but I don't have any I think, you know, making a
+
+07:45.813 --> 07:53.975
+library is definitely something that I can think about, but
+
+07:45.813 --> 07:53.975
+perhaps maybe making it too many packages isn't exactly
+
+07:45.813 --> 07:53.975
+what I want. But for my own use case, I think I just wanted to
+
+07:55.175 --> 08:06.317
+have something that just didn't have any external
+
+07:55.175 --> 08:06.317
+dependency so that I can use the vanilla Emacs with my
+
+07:55.175 --> 08:06.317
+colors. I think that's how it started, but I'm definitely up
+
+08:06.757 --> 08:11.558
+for it if there is interest about it. Yeah, well, thank you
+
+08:12.622 --> 00:08:13.615
+for this. It's always good to contribute.
+
+00:08:16.040 --> 00:08:16.399
+I'm tempted to say
+
+00:08:16.400 --> 00:08:18.679
+that's how they get you. You know, you do something really
+
+00:08:18.680 --> 00:08:24.799
+cool and you share it with people and they have the, you know,
+
+00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:27.080
+they just ask you, oh, do you have your code online? And you
+
+08:27.166 --> 08:28.667
+realize, no, I haven't pushed it. And then they start
+
+08:28.707 --> 08:30.107
+pressing you on. well, you need to do this, this is amazing
+
+08:30.287 --> 08:33.349
+and you need to share it. You know, I had plenty of people ask
+
+08:33.849 --> 08:41.735
+me to share my dot files when I was tackling the org agenda
+
+08:33.849 --> 08:41.735
+issue that I mentioned earlier. And yeah, eventually when
+
+08:42.575 --> 08:54.243
+you get to publishing your stuff, you also feel great
+
+08:42.575 --> 08:54.243
+because you're putting a little bit of your intelligence
+
+08:42.575 --> 08:54.243
+into the world and it can be the start of the journey for
+
+08:42.575 --> 08:54.243
+someone else. You know, maybe someone will find your
+
+08:54.283 --> 08:59.867
+library at some point and realize, yeah, I wanted to do
+
+08:54.283 --> 08:59.867
+something slightly differently. and then they either
+
+09:00.387 --> 09:10.793
+contribute to a library or they make their own but it's a
+
+09:00.387 --> 09:10.793
+complete journey that starts with just people taking the
+
+09:00.387 --> 09:10.793
+time to publish the content of the brain basically. Yeah,
+
+09:11.894 --> 09:13.354
+that's the power of open source now. It's just how we really
+
+09:13.654 --> 09:21.276
+appreciate the open source culture being cultivated
+
+09:13.654 --> 09:21.276
+throughout so many years. And yeah, this is something that
+
+09:21.736 --> 09:24.337
+I'm definitely keen about. So yeah, open for suggestions.
+
+09:26.618 --> 09:29.298
+And exactly, that's how I started with the journey. And
+
+00:09:29.760 --> 00:09:33.559
+yeah, while this is very experimental and very personal,
+
+00:09:33.560 --> 00:09:38.239
+yeah, I'm not, you know, tied down to one particular way
+
+00:09:38.240 --> 00:09:41.679
+only. So yeah we'll be open to suggestions like this one
+
+00:09:41.680 --> 00:09:44.839
+which I would definitely think about. Yeah that's amazing
+
+00:09:44.840 --> 00:09:46.879
+and just to be clear you know this is not a there's no
+
+00:09:46.880 --> 00:09:47.840
+incentive one. I'm not pushing you to publish your library.
+
+09:51.070 --> 09:57.595
+You know it was very personal for you and at the end if you
+
+09:51.070 --> 09:57.595
+believe it might be useful for others it's a nice thing to
+
+09:51.070 --> 09:57.595
+eventually think about publishing it. But just the fact
+
+09:58.056 --> 10:00.117
+that you showed up at EmacsConf... Sorry, I'm
+
+10:01.278 --> 00:10:02.698
+starting to lose my voice on the morning
+
+00:10:02.699 --> 00:10:03.280
+of the first day. That's
+
+10:03.520 --> 00:10:08.559
+not boding well for the two next days. I mean, just one day.
+
+00:10:08.560 --> 00:10:10.079
+But just the
+
+00:10:10.080 --> 00:10:13.279
+fact that you're showing up at EmacsConf and sharing about
+
+00:10:13.280 --> 00:10:17.119
+all of this, the process, how you got to it eventually, it's
+
+00:10:17.120 --> 00:10:19.439
+also a part of sharing. And I think it's also amazing in its
+
+00:10:19.440 --> 00:10:26.039
+own way. Absolutely. Okay, I'm going to try to read the next
+
+00:10:26.040 --> 00:10:31.719
+question and then try to cough a little bit. So can we have...
+
+00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:36.919
+Oh, sorry, Bala. Sorry. I was the one who asked the question.
+
+00:10:36.920 --> 00:10:40.120
+I thought I could ask it live here rather than... Thank you.
+
+10:40.188 --> 10:41.368
+I'll go cough a little bit. So here I am. Thanks, Ryota, for
+
+10:45.050 --> 10:47.190
+the nice talk. This is great. I loved it. Your attention to
+
+10:49.531 --> 00:10:50.140
+detail was awesome.
+
+NOTE Q: Can we have a dark as well as light theme variations made from your theme?
+
+00:10:51.880 --> 00:10:55.079
+So I was just looking at the code and I was
+
+00:10:55.080 --> 00:10:58.839
+wondering, do you have a dark and a light theme variation
+
+00:10:58.840 --> 00:11:02.479
+which can be made from your theme? Or do you have to customize
+
+00:11:02.480 --> 00:11:05.519
+it every time? That was my question. And thanks for that.
+
+00:11:05.520 --> 00:11:07.640
+Thank you very much. I appreciate your feedback and
+
+00:11:10.240 --> 00:11:15.079
+questions. So to answer the question, the short answer is
+
+00:11:15.080 --> 00:11:18.639
+that I do have both dark and light themes with some sorts of
+
+00:11:18.640 --> 00:11:22.199
+standard colors that I personally liked. And there were a
+
+00:11:22.200 --> 00:11:26.719
+few things that I showed in the demo. where I showed, I think,
+
+00:11:26.720 --> 00:11:30.039
+three different dark theme colors. So light theme is
+
+00:11:30.040 --> 00:11:31.440
+definitely something that I can do.
+
+00:11:31.800 --> 00:11:33.879
+And the idea around Hasliberg theme
+
+00:11:33.880 --> 00:11:36.359
+and just my theming in general was that
+
+00:11:36.360 --> 00:11:39.679
+when I feel like I want to work in dark theme and when I want to
+
+00:11:39.680 --> 00:11:42.440
+work in the standard way, I would just use the standard color.
+
+00:11:42.480 --> 00:11:44.959
+But when I feel like maybe it's just so cold that I want
+
+00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:49.399
+to have a bit of a warm colors near me, I would use the orange
+
+00:11:49.400 --> 00:11:52.359
+theme, without changing too much of the kind of general
+
+00:11:52.360 --> 00:11:55.679
+feeling and experience. So that can be said for the light
+
+00:11:55.680 --> 00:11:58.959
+theme as well. So there is something and the kind of
+
+00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:04.919
+customization isn't that difficult to extend. So I do have
+
+00:12:04.920 --> 00:12:09.079
+both dark and light, but primarily I'm just looking at the
+
+00:12:09.080 --> 00:12:10.239
+dark theme as my main driver. But yeah, they are both
+
+00:12:10.240 --> 00:12:13.240
+available. Great. Thank you so much. I will definitely try
+
+00:12:18.208 --> 12:18.865
+your theme out. I'm definitely on the lookout for a nice,
+
+12:19.205 --> 12:22.426
+friendly theme. Thank you very much. As I said, this is a
+
+12:25.388 --> 12:27.429
+personal theme. I'm not sure if it really fits everyone's
+
+12:29.089 --> 12:42.816
+need, but it is one inspiration that I hope that can lead to
+
+12:29.089 --> 12:42.816
+another nice theming that could work for someone
+
+12:29.089 --> 12:42.816
+specifically for some use cases. I don't have to solve
+
+12:42.996 --> 12:44.977
+everyone's problem. Yeah, and I mean, it was sufficient to
+
+12:46.553 --> 12:49.715
+be inspirational to people. I mean, just Bala just
+
+12:49.755 --> 12:58.619
+mentioned it right now, but I'm sure plenty of people who
+
+12:49.755 --> 12:58.619
+watched live, but also people will be watching in the
+
+12:49.755 --> 12:58.619
+future, will have the interest to speak by what you've done.
+
+12:58.699 --> 13:00.040
+So thank you again so much for this. Yep. All right, well, I
+
+13:04.102 --> 13:06.603
+don't see any further questions. So I suggest we move
+
+13:07.083 --> 13:10.525
+towards closure. Ryota, do you have any last words? No, I
+
+13:13.775 --> 13:14.175
+don't. So yeah, thank you very much for attending. And it was
+
+13:16.577 --> 13:18.979
+great fun putting this together. And I really didn't think
+
+13:19.299 --> 13:27.545
+that I would be talking about my personal colors and
+
+13:19.299 --> 13:27.545
+personal favorites, like orange being my favorite color.
+
+13:27.845 --> 13:31.228
+This wouldn't be something that I would say out in any
+
+13:27.845 --> 13:31.228
+conference, to be honest. But it just came out to be. And
+
+13:33.890 --> 13:35.491
+happy that I had a chance. So thank you very much for giving me
+
+13:35.651 --> 13:39.154
+the opportunity to talk. in this amazing conference and
+
+13:39.574 --> 13:52.473
+yeah I can't just wait to check out other talks which you know
+
+13:39.574 --> 13:52.473
+I know that there isn't you know other talks that are
+
+13:39.574 --> 13:52.473
+happening right now I was actually wanted to to join them and
+
+13:39.574 --> 13:52.473
+check check that out so I will probably do that right now.
+
+13:53.419 --> 13:53.899
+Well, sure. Well, I won't hold you any longer then. Thank
+
+13:56.401 --> 13:56.741
+you. For me, it was just amazing to, you know, generally when
+
+13:57.682 --> 14:03.285
+you ask someone what their favorite color, you know, they
+
+13:57.682 --> 14:03.285
+just tell you orange or blue or whatever. They don't go then
+
+14:03.586 --> 14:10.690
+to chat about 20 minutes about their favorite color and how
+
+14:03.586 --> 14:10.690
+they tuned their entire editor to work exactly around their
+
+14:03.586 --> 14:10.690
+favorite colors. So it was inspiring. And I also want to try
+
+14:12.912 --> 14:21.057
+it out, frankly, because my theme has been utterly bad for
+
+14:12.912 --> 14:21.057
+the last five years and I need some change into my life. All
+
+14:21.497 --> 14:21.677
+right. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you very much,
+
+14:23.629 --> 14:24.654
+everyone. Cheers. Bye-bye.
diff --git a/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-emacs30--emacs-30-highlights--philip-kaludercic--answers.vtt b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-emacs30--emacs-30-highlights--philip-kaludercic--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..74b1254c
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-emacs30--emacs-30-highlights--philip-kaludercic--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,957 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.079
+You sound great. And on the stream, my eyeball says it looks
+
+00:00:05.080 --> 00:00:08.239
+great with Leo doing the streaming. So I say let's dive right
+
+00:00:08.240 --> 00:00:12.639
+in. You got a long, huge line. And in order to be a little more
+
+00:00:12.640 --> 00:00:16.279
+dialectical, I'll be reading the questions. So first
+
+NOTE Q: which-key was a third-party package for a long time. Is there work to bring any other popular packages into core Emacs for Emacs 31+? (magit, counsel, etc)
+
+00:00:16.280 --> 00:00:18.559
+question, which key was a third party package for a long
+
+00:00:18.560 --> 00:00:21.879
+time? Is there work to bring any other popular packages into
+
+00:00:21.880 --> 00:00:25.399
+the core of Emacs for Emacs 31 plus, like Magit or Counsel?
+
+00:00:25.400 --> 00:00:30.279
+Uh, right. I already answered that one on the, as you can see,
+
+00:00:30.280 --> 00:00:33.999
+uh, right. Yeah. Do you want to quickly read the answer so
+
+00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:38.439
+that everyone, I just can read it out again. Um, as far as I
+
+00:00:38.440 --> 00:00:41.159
+remember, the one package that was being discussed just
+
+00:00:41.160 --> 00:00:43.999
+around the time that the Emacs 30 branch was cut was macro
+
+00:00:44.000 --> 00:00:47.599
+step. That's the package that was like, does an overlay, uh,
+
+00:00:47.600 --> 00:00:51.479
+replaces a macro with the macro expansion using overlays.
+
+00:00:51.480 --> 00:00:53.799
+So you don't have to pop up another buffer, modified,
+
+00:00:53.800 --> 00:00:57.599
+modified current buffer. But we didn't manage to address
+
+00:00:57.600 --> 00:01:00.759
+all the concerns in time for the Emacs 30 cuts and I believe
+
+00:01:00.760 --> 00:01:03.799
+it's sort of stagnated around that but it might be picked up
+
+00:01:03.800 --> 00:01:07.399
+anytime someone mentions it on Emacs Devil again. Another
+
+00:01:07.400 --> 00:01:11.519
+package question mentioned was Magit. That's a constant
+
+00:01:11.520 --> 00:01:14.959
+discussion regarding Magit. And actually, from the top of
+
+00:01:14.960 --> 00:01:19.039
+my head, I can't recall if Magit is on NonGNU ELPA or GNU ELPA
+
+00:01:19.040 --> 00:01:22.999
+right now. It's still on NonGNU ELPA.
+
+00:01:23.000 --> 00:01:29.039
+For those who don't know, only packages which are in ELPA are
+
+00:01:29.040 --> 00:01:33.039
+considered for addition, considered to be added to the
+
+00:01:33.040 --> 00:01:36.119
+Emacs core, to be bundled along with Emacs. And then there's
+
+00:01:36.120 --> 00:01:40.519
+another totally parallel discussion about having a sort of
+
+00:01:40.520 --> 00:01:43.519
+fat Emacs distribution, I call it fat Emacs distribution,
+
+00:01:43.520 --> 00:01:48.119
+where Emacs comes with a lot of ELPA packages or the
+
+00:01:48.120 --> 00:01:55.039
+pre-installed by default. Part of Emacs itself. Yeah.
+
+00:01:55.040 --> 00:01:59.159
+Maybe I could jump in with an active listening style,
+
+00:01:59.160 --> 00:02:03.359
+you know, kind of follow up question almost. You know, I
+
+00:02:03.360 --> 00:02:07.159
+understand the kind of different repositories. We have
+
+00:02:07.160 --> 00:02:13.799
+things that aren't maintained by GNU at all, you know, most
+
+00:02:13.800 --> 00:02:17.919
+notably MELPA. And then we have kind of NonGNU ELPA, which
+
+00:02:17.920 --> 00:02:21.639
+is sort of an entryway project where it's not necessarily
+
+00:02:21.640 --> 00:02:24.759
+curated, but there'll be some advice given, which you can
+
+00:02:24.760 --> 00:02:28.159
+take or leave. And that's the repository where anything
+
+00:02:28.160 --> 00:02:32.519
+that was the newer repository that represents, you know,
+
+00:02:32.520 --> 00:02:36.319
+help, you know, help, help supplied from GNU. And then
+
+00:02:36.320 --> 00:02:41.319
+there's the, actually the GNU, the GNU ELPA, what most of us
+
+00:02:41.320 --> 00:02:46.479
+are used to calling just ELPA. And that's what you're
+
+00:02:46.480 --> 00:02:50.839
+talking about there when you say,
+
+00:02:50.840 --> 00:02:53.959
+I mean, all packages on ELPA are officially considered to be
+
+00:02:53.960 --> 00:02:56.959
+part of Emacs, they're licensed under the same conditions
+
+00:02:56.960 --> 00:03:00.359
+as Emacs itself, same license, same everything. And
+
+00:03:00.360 --> 00:03:03.719
+they're more likely to be, to drop, to kind of be dropping
+
+00:03:03.720 --> 00:03:07.839
+patched. Oh yeah, it's time for this to move to core. Is that
+
+00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:12.559
+right? They have the legal conditions for that to be done.
+
+00:03:12.560 --> 00:03:15.039
+Everything's necessary from a paperwork standpoint. I
+
+00:03:15.040 --> 00:03:17.959
+mean, but other than that, there's not really a big
+
+00:03:17.960 --> 00:03:21.159
+difference between GNU ELPA and NonGNU ELPA. It's
+
+00:03:21.160 --> 00:03:23.839
+really just the main thing is this copyrights notice. So if
+
+00:03:23.840 --> 00:03:28.519
+you want to add a package to ELPA, to GNU ELPA, then all
+
+00:03:28.520 --> 00:03:32.359
+significance contributors have to have signed the FSF
+
+00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:36.399
+copyright assignment and the package script, actually the
+
+00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:41.519
+ELPA build script, checks if the copyright lines are all
+
+00:03:41.520 --> 00:03:43.879
+attributed to the Free Software Foundation.
+
+00:03:43.880 --> 00:03:52.119
+But that's not going to attach, right? So because that's not
+
+00:03:52.120 --> 00:03:57.799
+in place, it'd be a lot more work to merge it to core. I didn't
+
+00:03:57.800 --> 00:04:01.039
+hear the beginning. Nevermind. I think I understood. You
+
+00:04:01.040 --> 00:04:05.559
+made your point well. Okay. All right, moving on to the
+
+00:04:05.560 --> 00:04:06.466
+second question.
+
+NOTE Q: Any way to get the goodness of Emacs for android with this other stuff?
+
+00:04:06.467 --> 00:04:08.279
+When thinking about using Emacs on
+
+00:04:08.280 --> 00:04:11.279
+Android, I started realizing all the other software I also
+
+00:04:11.280 --> 00:04:15.279
+want on it. For example, PDF Tools wants a small additional
+
+00:04:15.280 --> 00:04:18.519
+Emacs-specific program to be installed on, and notmuch
+
+00:04:18.520 --> 00:04:21.359
+obviously wants notmuch. Any way to get the goodness of
+
+00:04:21.360 --> 00:04:25.639
+Emacs for Android with this other stuff, using either Nix OS
+
+00:04:25.640 --> 00:04:29.279
+or Guix or nix-on-droid to make an APK with extra stuff? Are you
+
+00:04:29.280 --> 00:04:34.439
+familiar with this topic? Absolutely not. The extent to
+
+00:04:34.440 --> 00:04:39.319
+which I have used Emacs on Android was entirely
+
+00:04:39.320 --> 00:04:43.719
+demonstrated in this video, I think. In my previous video. I
+
+00:04:43.720 --> 00:04:48.719
+mean, I know it does a few scrolling stuff, but I have no idea
+
+00:04:48.720 --> 00:04:52.719
+how external stuff, because I mean, Android is, it's a Unix
+
+00:04:52.720 --> 00:04:55.439
+or it's a Linux based system, but it's really heavily
+
+00:04:55.440 --> 00:05:01.439
+modified to the preferences of Google, which includes not
+
+00:05:01.440 --> 00:05:04.719
+being able to have your own software on it. Yeah,
+
+00:05:04.720 --> 00:05:08.799
+definitely. All right, moving on to the next question. Does
+
+00:05:08.800 --> 00:05:12.239
+package-vc... Oh, no, that's fine. I mean, you can't answer
+
+00:05:12.240 --> 00:05:15.199
+all the questions. I mean, it wouldn't be fun for me
+
+00:05:15.200 --> 00:05:15.753
+otherwise.
+
+NOTE Q: Does package-vc download a tarball from the specified git repository or clone the repository itself?
+
+00:05:15.754 --> 00:05:17.919
+Does package-vc download a tarball from the
+
+00:05:17.920 --> 00:05:21.759
+specified Git repository or clone the repository itself?
+
+00:05:21.760 --> 00:05:25.439
+It clones the repository. That's the VC part in the name.
+
+00:05:25.440 --> 00:05:33.719
+package-vc uses VC, the C-x v stuff. In Emacs 29, there's a
+
+00:05:33.720 --> 00:05:37.679
+new command called vc-clone, which in Emacs 31, it was
+
+00:05:37.680 --> 00:05:42.479
+actually exposed as an interactive command. And when you
+
+00:05:42.480 --> 00:05:47.319
+clone the repository, or when you, you can give it any URL of a
+
+00:05:47.320 --> 00:05:50.559
+Git repository or a CVS repository or subversion
+
+00:05:50.560 --> 00:05:53.519
+repository. Interestingly enough, most people only use
+
+00:05:53.520 --> 00:05:57.559
+Git, but anything that's, that implements this clone
+
+00:05:57.560 --> 00:06:01.519
+command for VC, and it could download it. So there's no
+
+00:06:01.520 --> 00:06:05.119
+tarballs involved. Which is also, one should emphasize,
+
+00:06:05.120 --> 00:06:07.879
+part of the difficulty of VC packages because when you have
+
+00:06:07.880 --> 00:06:10.759
+version control and you want to upgrade it, it might be that
+
+00:06:10.760 --> 00:06:14.399
+the upstream did a force push. For that, you make local
+
+00:06:14.400 --> 00:06:17.519
+changes and then you have to merge them upstream with the
+
+00:06:17.520 --> 00:06:21.239
+upstream changes when fetching stuff. It's one of the big
+
+00:06:21.240 --> 00:06:23.559
+downsides of version-controlled stuff, and I'm saying
+
+00:06:23.560 --> 00:06:26.999
+this as the guy who actually wrote package-vc. There's
+
+00:06:27.000 --> 00:06:29.719
+times to use it, there's advantages to it, but that's
+
+00:06:29.720 --> 00:06:32.959
+something you should keep in mind, why tarballs are
+
+00:06:32.960 --> 00:06:37.969
+interesting to have, in my opinion. Okay.
+
+NOTE How is the new behavior of M-q in prog-mode (prog-fill-reindent-defun or something like that) different from the behavior of C-M-q (indent-pp-sexp) in older Emacs versions?
+
+00:06:37.970 --> 00:06:39.639
+How is the new
+
+00:06:39.640 --> 00:06:42.439
+behavior of M-q in prog mode, prog-fill-reindent-defun
+
+00:06:42.440 --> 00:06:45.159
+or something like that, different from the behavior
+
+00:06:45.160 --> 00:06:48.799
+of C-M-q, i.e. indent-pp-sexp in older Emacs
+
+00:06:48.800 --> 00:06:52.199
+version? My apologies if indent-pp-sexp, it's really tough to
+
+00:06:52.200 --> 00:06:55.959
+read M-x commands out loud. It's not bound to
+
+00:06:55.960 --> 00:07:01.519
+C-M-q by default, I can't tell. Let me try that command
+
+00:07:01.520 --> 00:07:05.599
+out because I've never tried it, never used it before.
+
+00:07:05.600 --> 00:07:09.079
+You know, that isn't bound by default. I bind that up myself
+
+00:07:09.080 --> 00:07:11.759
+and I have that binding. I think that's, that's not right. It
+
+00:07:11.760 --> 00:07:15.119
+says so. I mean, I'm currently executing it here in Emacs and
+
+00:07:15.120 --> 00:07:20.839
+it says you can also run the commands indent-pp-sexp with
+
+00:07:20.840 --> 00:07:26.359
+M-q, C-M-q. Apparently it is. I mean, I
+
+00:07:26.360 --> 00:07:31.359
+didn't set it myself. I don't know what's up with that. to try
+
+00:07:31.360 --> 00:07:35.439
+and move it. And then each line started with points or pretty
+
+00:07:35.440 --> 00:07:37.239
+printed. I mean, the difference, the main difference
+
+00:07:37.240 --> 00:07:41.279
+between that and the command highlighted, what's the name
+
+00:07:41.280 --> 00:07:47.479
+again? I forget it all the time. The prog-mode command.
+
+00:07:47.480 --> 00:07:50.359
+prog-fill-reindent-defun is that
+
+00:07:50.360 --> 00:07:56.319
+it checks if it's in a string or not. If it's in a string or if
+
+00:07:56.320 --> 00:07:58.959
+it's in a comma, then it will refill. Otherwise, it's going
+
+00:07:58.960 --> 00:07:59.799
+to re-indent.
+
+00:07:59.800 --> 00:08:05.679
+That's, I think, as far as I see, that's going to be the main
+
+00:08:05.680 --> 00:08:09.599
+difference. If we have some long comments somewhere. Let's
+
+00:08:09.600 --> 00:08:15.439
+try that out. Yeah, that's the difference. I just, you can't
+
+00:08:15.440 --> 00:08:19.679
+see it, but I did try it. Okay, good. Thank you. You did a
+
+00:08:19.680 --> 00:08:22.119
+wonderful job describing visually what you're doing. All
+
+00:08:22.120 --> 00:08:26.759
+right, moving on to the next question, and we have about, we
+
+00:08:26.760 --> 00:08:28.759
+have just enough time to cover the last three questions,
+
+00:08:28.760 --> 00:08:32.239
+especially because the next one, I can pretty much surmise
+
+00:08:32.240 --> 00:08:33.143
+the answer.
+
+NOTE Q: Any plans for Emacs running in iOS?
+
+00:08:33.144 --> 00:08:36.759
+Any plans for Emacs running on iOS? Probably not
+
+00:08:36.760 --> 00:08:40.319
+because it's not, I mean, as I emphasized in the video, the
+
+00:08:40.320 --> 00:08:43.639
+Emacs port in Android is completely free. And to my
+
+00:08:43.640 --> 00:08:45.319
+knowledge, that's not something that's currently
+
+00:08:45.320 --> 00:08:49.799
+possible with iOS. You need Xcode or something like that to
+
+00:08:49.800 --> 00:08:56.639
+build iOS stuff. So that's a big no-no. I mean, maybe Apple's
+
+00:08:56.640 --> 00:09:00.919
+going to change their mind on that one. Well, I won't be the
+
+00:09:00.920 --> 00:09:04.039
+one liaising with Apple to make sure that they do, but PR
+
+00:09:04.040 --> 00:09:07.599
+welcomes, I guess, or motivated folks welcome. Second to
+
+00:09:07.600 --> 00:09:08.647
+last question.
+
+NOTE Q: I am worried about the situation on non-free systems. There was talk about the Windows and the macOS versions being as good as unmaintained. Where do we go from here?
+
+00:09:08.648 --> 00:09:11.719
+I am worried about the situation on non-free
+
+00:09:11.720 --> 00:09:14.519
+systems. There was talk about the Windows and the macOS
+
+00:09:14.520 --> 00:09:17.039
+versions being as good as unmaintained. Where do we go from
+
+00:09:17.040 --> 00:09:20.399
+here? I gather that most users of Emacs are still on non-free
+
+00:09:20.400 --> 00:09:24.799
+platforms and will remain to be there. I don't know about the
+
+00:09:24.800 --> 00:09:28.279
+last point, if that's true, because there's no statistics
+
+00:09:28.280 --> 00:09:35.039
+on that matter. But the main, I mean, someone has to, I know
+
+00:09:35.040 --> 00:09:37.959
+that Corwin is involved with the Mac, with the Windows
+
+00:09:37.960 --> 00:09:43.199
+stuff. Modestly. Sure, I'd love to jump in, but I'm far more
+
+00:09:43.200 --> 00:09:45.839
+interested in your thoughts than mine. Please, please
+
+00:09:45.840 --> 00:09:51.039
+continue. Someone has to do the work. Eli uses, as far as I
+
+00:09:51.040 --> 00:09:58.719
+know, Eli's on the Windows XP system. So as long as he's doing
+
+00:09:58.720 --> 00:10:02.519
+that, there's going to be Windows support for one form or
+
+00:10:02.520 --> 00:10:07.959
+another, or at least DOS. All right. And now you put a quarter
+
+00:10:07.960 --> 00:10:12.439
+in me, so I'll jump right back in. That's perfect for where I
+
+00:10:12.440 --> 00:10:14.519
+guess I would take the question. To me, it's an
+
+00:10:14.520 --> 00:10:17.439
+accessibility issue. Think about it this way. Maybe that
+
+00:10:17.440 --> 00:10:23.319
+Windows XP system is what someone can afford. Likewise,
+
+00:10:23.320 --> 00:10:27.679
+from a freedom versus I have to do my job and I have to use
+
+00:10:27.680 --> 00:10:31.679
+certain technology to do my job. Maybe Emacs is what
+
+00:10:31.680 --> 00:10:35.559
+somebody can afford right? It might be the only free tool
+
+00:10:35.560 --> 00:10:37.439
+that they use and they don't have a lot of choice about the
+
+00:10:37.440 --> 00:10:40.039
+operating system that they're in most of the day. In fact,
+
+00:10:40.040 --> 00:10:42.279
+somebody could be in the situation where their computing
+
+00:10:42.280 --> 00:10:45.839
+device at work is really their internet access, right? All
+
+00:10:45.840 --> 00:10:48.279
+of those situations are possible. Therefore, I tend to
+
+00:10:48.280 --> 00:10:53.479
+assume they all exist and when I ask, you know, how much It
+
+00:10:53.480 --> 00:10:58.039
+definitely is concerning when we hear about kind of black
+
+00:10:58.040 --> 00:11:02.079
+holes in the brain trust of something like support for the
+
+00:11:02.080 --> 00:11:06.359
+Windows port. I feel like I've heard a lot of people
+
+00:11:06.360 --> 00:11:10.959
+answering that call, but the importance of that is that it
+
+00:11:10.960 --> 00:11:14.119
+doesn't stop echoing, right? Free software goes as long as
+
+00:11:14.120 --> 00:11:16.399
+there are people that are irritated enough about something
+
+00:11:16.400 --> 00:11:20.839
+to sort of come hack on it. Yeah. And the same applies to Mac
+
+00:11:20.840 --> 00:11:25.199
+OS. But I don't know any concrete details about who's
+
+00:11:25.200 --> 00:11:28.079
+currently working on it. I can't recollect any details on
+
+00:11:28.080 --> 00:11:29.439
+who's currently working on what.
+
+00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:35.279
+Okay. And that leaves us with the last question of the day.
+
+NOTE Q: Is there a best practice on what Org to use when following emacs-latest?
+
+00:11:35.280 --> 00:11:38.159
+I'm a bit confused about what version of Org that I should
+
+00:11:38.160 --> 00:11:40.919
+write towards because there's Org in Emacs, the one that
+
+00:11:40.920 --> 00:11:44.279
+ships built-in. There's the one in ELPA. There's the one in
+
+00:11:44.280 --> 00:11:48.519
+Org, probably the Org ELPA, I assume. Is there a best
+
+00:11:48.520 --> 00:11:51.959
+practice on what Org to use when following Emacs latest?
+
+00:11:51.960 --> 00:11:58.919
+when following us latest. It depends on, I think, my rough
+
+00:11:58.920 --> 00:12:02.559
+heuristic is if you do use Org a lot and if you follow the
+
+00:12:02.560 --> 00:12:06.279
+newest features, then use the version on Elpa, because the
+
+00:12:06.280 --> 00:12:09.959
+Elpa version should be the most up-to-date one. The Org Elpa
+
+00:12:09.960 --> 00:12:14.999
+was deprecated, to my knowledge. If that seems true, please
+
+00:12:15.000 --> 00:12:18.319
+someone interrupt me before I make a fool of myself.
+
+00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:24.519
+No one's done that yet.
+
+00:12:24.520 --> 00:12:29.519
+I think a couple of years ago there were chats and then we
+
+00:12:29.520 --> 00:12:33.999
+deprecated the all contrib ELPA, but I think all the ELPA is
+
+00:12:34.000 --> 00:12:40.759
+still alive. I didn't know that about that. Okay, in that
+
+00:12:40.760 --> 00:12:44.839
+case, that relativizes how absolute my answer is.
+
+00:12:44.840 --> 00:12:49.559
+Personally, I just use the version in Emacs, which is
+
+00:12:49.560 --> 00:12:53.399
+bundled with Emacs, which is regularly updated on master
+
+00:12:53.400 --> 00:12:58.319
+whenever there's a release. But that might take maybe, it
+
+00:12:58.320 --> 00:13:03.559
+might be a short time behind the ELPA version, or the other
+
+00:13:03.560 --> 00:13:11.879
+ELPA, the Org ELPA, which we mentioned. But I'm a very light
+
+00:13:11.880 --> 00:13:16.119
+Org mode user, so please don't take my word for that one. No,
+
+00:13:16.120 --> 00:13:23.439
+and I'm happy to come to you. Yeah. I
+
+00:13:23.440 --> 00:13:27.719
+feel like we lost Leo again. OK. Well, that's all right. I
+
+00:13:27.720 --> 00:13:31.279
+wanted a bite at that, Apple. I'm a little bit. Yeah, I also
+
+00:13:31.280 --> 00:13:34.239
+describe myself as a light org user, but somehow your
+
+00:13:34.240 --> 00:13:37.159
+comment made me think, well, maybe I do use it just a little
+
+00:13:37.160 --> 00:13:41.719
+bit more than you, Philip.
+
+00:13:41.720 --> 00:13:45.359
+From my standpoint, I'm using it as a technical basis for
+
+00:13:45.360 --> 00:13:49.959
+dungeon mode in order to keep the game notes for the games
+
+00:13:49.960 --> 00:13:52.479
+that are made using this game engine I'm making that I talked
+
+00:13:52.480 --> 00:13:56.079
+about a few years ago. As soon as you said technical grounds,
+
+00:13:56.080 --> 00:13:59.319
+you definitely use it more. Right, right. So I've studied
+
+00:13:59.320 --> 00:14:04.159
+its internals a bit, and I have my own thoughts about this or
+
+00:14:04.160 --> 00:14:06.959
+that. But of course, I'm rolling with the punches because
+
+00:14:06.960 --> 00:14:10.119
+I'm just grateful that the bear dances. What an amazing
+
+00:14:10.120 --> 00:14:14.519
+thing is Org Mode. But Leo knows far more than me,
+
+00:14:14.520 --> 00:14:18.359
+conveniently having his stage right here, so he can't
+
+00:14:18.360 --> 00:14:22.359
+defend himself from this. But I've had thoughts around this
+
+00:14:22.360 --> 00:14:28.559
+space. Are you back, Leo? Yeah, sorry, I'm back. You save us
+
+00:14:28.560 --> 00:14:33.479
+all. Maybe closing remarks. I was trying to clear my throat
+
+00:14:33.480 --> 00:14:36.079
+to be very inconspicuous about me coming back, but
+
+00:14:36.080 --> 00:14:39.319
+apparently I was ousted. Yeah, I was trying to answer the
+
+00:14:39.320 --> 00:14:42.239
+question and I was trying to desperately save you from
+
+00:14:42.240 --> 00:14:45.999
+answering, Philip, because yes, the thing about Org Mode is
+
+00:14:46.000 --> 00:14:48.879
+that if you are the kind of people who tend to check out master
+
+00:14:48.880 --> 00:14:51.919
+on Org Mode, generally it's roughly pretty stable. Like
+
+00:14:51.920 --> 00:14:54.319
+when we were working with Org Element and stuff like this,
+
+00:14:54.320 --> 00:14:56.479
+Perhaps there were some elements of stability which
+
+00:14:56.480 --> 00:14:59.199
+weren't there quite yet, but usually now it's pretty
+
+00:14:59.200 --> 00:15:02.039
+stable. So I think that if you are really excited about
+
+00:15:02.040 --> 00:15:04.639
+contributing to Org Mode and stuff like this, I think there
+
+00:15:04.640 --> 00:15:08.199
+isn't all that many risks to just checking out Org Mode
+
+00:15:08.200 --> 00:15:10.999
+Master, so cloning the repository and just keeping up to
+
+00:15:11.000 --> 00:15:15.119
+date. Otherwise, ELPA is a fairly safe bet if you want to have
+
+00:15:15.120 --> 00:15:19.839
+the latest stable version. And we've got a question about
+
+00:15:19.840 --> 00:15:24.759
+[??] as with Emacs itself. You can follow whatever is
+
+00:15:24.760 --> 00:15:28.519
+published in your package archives or in your system
+
+00:15:28.520 --> 00:15:32.399
+distribution package manager. You can build it yourself if
+
+00:15:32.400 --> 00:15:36.839
+you want to contribute and fix bugs, add features, and so on.
+
+00:15:36.840 --> 00:15:40.399
+Yeah, and I don't think perhaps a little more with Emacs,
+
+00:15:40.400 --> 00:15:43.439
+because the features that tends to get introduced in Emacs
+
+00:15:43.440 --> 00:15:48.039
+are slightly more wild. Not wild in the sense that they are
+
+00:15:48.040 --> 00:15:50.679
+less stable, but wild in the sense that they tend to change a
+
+00:15:50.680 --> 00:15:54.119
+lot more stuff. The core of Org, at least during Bastien's
+
+00:15:54.120 --> 00:15:56.879
+maintenance ship, was very stable when you think about it.
+
+00:15:56.880 --> 00:15:59.719
+So things might change with Ihor right now in terms of how he
+
+00:15:59.720 --> 00:16:02.839
+wants to change some of the core behaviors, but it's usually
+
+00:16:02.840 --> 00:16:06.079
+pretty stable. And whether you use the latest major
+
+00:16:06.080 --> 00:16:09.159
+version, the latest minor version, things are probably
+
+00:16:09.160 --> 00:16:11.679
+going to be pretty stable. It's like you heard me while you
+
+00:16:11.680 --> 00:16:16.199
+were offline. And I do agree with that, in case you might have
+
+00:16:16.200 --> 00:16:18.319
+heard both our remarks and think we're talking different
+
+00:16:18.320 --> 00:16:22.439
+angles. Actually, I think we would tend to agree on this, Leo
+
+00:16:22.440 --> 00:16:26.759
+and I. For the record, when I'm saying, oh, I have to go keep up
+
+00:16:26.760 --> 00:16:30.719
+with org, that's because org grows behaviors that I've got
+
+00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:34.639
+my own. I had to figure out at some point my own way to do it, and
+
+00:16:34.640 --> 00:16:38.119
+now I'm learning how it's done, right? So I'm like, in my
+
+00:16:38.120 --> 00:16:41.279
+abstraction, blah, right? And those conversations
+
+00:16:41.280 --> 00:16:44.279
+usually end at, and somebody else took the time to figure out
+
+00:16:44.280 --> 00:16:48.039
+how to actually make Emacs do that. Go be quiet. And I do, and I
+
+00:16:48.040 --> 00:16:52.999
+do consider that under Bastien's tenure, it has been quite
+
+00:16:53.000 --> 00:16:57.039
+stable. We might notice the occasional like, oh, this
+
+00:16:57.040 --> 00:17:00.519
+highlights now and that didn't, right? But very often, very
+
+00:17:00.520 --> 00:17:03.599
+infrequently is it breaking my workflow as a user, any of it.
+
+00:17:03.600 --> 00:17:07.799
+It's interesting to me that this mirrors my experience with
+
+00:17:07.800 --> 00:17:12.679
+Emacs itself, where I think, in my perception, Emacs master
+
+00:17:12.680 --> 00:17:17.199
+is very stable and I might notice the slight changes between
+
+00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:21.839
+git pulls. But otherwise, in my experience, Org mode
+
+00:17:21.840 --> 00:17:24.879
+suddenly changes something, I don't know what changed or
+
+00:17:24.880 --> 00:17:29.439
+what's going on or what caused it, and it seemed... I
+
+00:17:29.440 --> 00:17:33.719
+perceive it as being a sudden uncontrolled change or
+
+00:17:33.720 --> 00:17:36.239
+something. I think that's apt. Right. That gets
+
+00:17:36.240 --> 00:17:40.159
+right at it. If we're following, if we're pulling for more
+
+00:17:40.160 --> 00:17:42.759
+pretty regularly, cronjob every night or pulling a few
+
+00:17:42.760 --> 00:17:44.639
+times a day or something like that, we're going to the
+
+00:17:44.640 --> 00:17:48.639
+internals yeah, we'll have a different experience than,
+
+00:17:48.640 --> 00:17:51.959
+you know, if we only remember to update Org once every four
+
+00:17:51.960 --> 00:17:54.759
+months. It really pays to stick with everything. And
+
+00:17:54.760 --> 00:17:59.199
+suddenly lots of things might change. Whatever broke in my
+
+00:17:59.200 --> 00:18:03.439
+own config, right? And so a lot of, like a lot of things within
+
+00:18:03.440 --> 00:18:06.759
+Emacs, but also within the free software tool chain, it's
+
+00:18:06.760 --> 00:18:09.559
+how much you're going to invent in the config, invest in the
+
+00:18:09.560 --> 00:18:14.199
+config, might limit you know, and maintaining your config
+
+00:18:14.200 --> 00:18:17.199
+may limit the depth of how far it makes sense for you to go with
+
+00:18:17.200 --> 00:18:21.759
+the tool at any given point in time. Actually just looked up
+
+00:18:21.760 --> 00:18:25.279
+my org config and it's four, I said four options, user
+
+00:18:25.280 --> 00:18:29.239
+options. So that's, if that's the measurements of org
+
+00:18:29.240 --> 00:18:32.119
+expertise, that's my level, it's four.
+
+00:18:32.120 --> 00:18:38.559
+That's all good then. Four of four, I'm assuming that is,
+
+00:18:38.560 --> 00:18:44.279
+right? Four of what? What was the metric there, four of like a
+
+00:18:44.280 --> 00:18:48.119
+thousand? Four out of the number of user options that Word
+
+00:18:48.120 --> 00:18:54.239
+provides. Oh, okay, I see. Four, yeah, more like 10,000. I'm
+
+00:18:54.240 --> 00:18:59.079
+there. Yeah. All right. On that note, I suggest we move to
+
+00:18:59.080 --> 00:19:00.999
+what's close because it's fairly late for me and I need to
+
+00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:03.119
+sleep. And Philip, I think it's pretty late for you as well,
+
+00:19:03.120 --> 00:19:07.239
+isn't it? I'm in Germany, so it's about... So it is pretty
+
+00:19:07.240 --> 00:19:09.799
+late. It's the same time zone as me. It's 11 p.m. for you.
+
+00:19:09.800 --> 00:19:16.399
+Truly, yeah. Yeah, so I suggest we both take the chance to go
+
+00:19:16.400 --> 00:19:20.359
+to bed as soon as we can. But Philip, thank you so much for
+
+00:19:20.360 --> 00:19:22.759
+both the presentation and also the answers that you
+
+00:19:22.760 --> 00:19:26.119
+provided to us and the nice little chat we had at the end. We
+
+00:19:26.120 --> 00:19:29.519
+look forward to seeing you again next year, perhaps for
+
+00:19:29.520 --> 00:19:34.159
+Emacs 31. I'm not sure. I was chatting with wasamasa
+
+00:19:34.160 --> 00:19:37.679
+trying to make prognostics about when Emacs 30 is going to be
+
+00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:40.839
+released. There's a pre-release coming soon. I should have
+
+00:19:40.840 --> 00:19:46.719
+mentioned that earlier. Well, there you go. Gone.
+
+00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:51.839
+All right. Well, thank you so much, Philip. We'll be moving
+
+00:19:51.840 --> 00:19:54.479
+towards close. Give us about two minutes to get set up in the
+
+00:19:54.480 --> 00:19:58.439
+other room. And Philip, we'll see you next time. Goodbye.
+
+00:19:58.440 --> 00:20:02.160
+Bye-bye. Thank you.
diff --git a/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-guile--beguiling-emacs-guileemacs-relaunched--robin-templeton--answers.vtt b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-guile--beguiling-emacs-guileemacs-relaunched--robin-templeton--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..510e556e
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-guile--beguiling-emacs-guileemacs-relaunched--robin-templeton--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,720 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:08.119
+All right. Hey, thanks for bearing with us there. We had a
+
+00:00:08.120 --> 00:00:11.239
+couple of bumps in the road, a cross between a couple of
+
+00:00:11.240 --> 00:00:13.479
+different versions of our program that we deliver here,
+
+00:00:13.480 --> 00:00:17.959
+different ways that we bring this stream together between
+
+00:00:17.960 --> 00:00:22.359
+the recorded content that that speakers are putting
+
+00:00:22.360 --> 00:00:26.879
+together in advance in the live content, such as what you're
+
+00:00:26.880 --> 00:00:31.039
+seeing right here. So thanks go to Sacha and Leo, and
+
+00:00:31.040 --> 00:00:34.359
+everybody behind the stages gluing it all together. And
+
+00:00:34.360 --> 00:00:40.199
+we're back here now, and I'm speaking with Robin, who us
+
+00:00:40.200 --> 00:00:42.799
+ready to take on some of your questions and address some of
+
+00:00:42.800 --> 00:00:46.879
+the comments over here on the etherpad. If you want to jump in
+
+00:00:46.880 --> 00:00:51.319
+there, there's links in the chat. And thanks so much, Robin,
+
+00:00:51.320 --> 00:00:53.999
+for your talk. And it's also been a pleasure chatting with
+
+00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:57.919
+you just a little bit over the last couple of months on IRC.
+
+00:00:57.920 --> 00:01:33.319
+Yeah, absolutely. Great meeting you.
+
+00:01:33.320 --> 00:01:37.679
+All right. All right, everyone. I think I am streaming now.
+
+00:01:37.680 --> 00:01:42.439
+So let's look at it. Let's see. I see the IRC scrolling. So
+
+00:01:42.440 --> 00:01:47.199
+let's see where that's going. Yes, the Common Lisp is what I
+
+00:01:47.200 --> 00:01:50.519
+thought would piss people off. And because it's not part of
+
+00:01:50.520 --> 00:01:54.239
+either community, but I think it would be a good compromise
+
+00:01:54.240 --> 00:01:57.839
+for building a Lisp into a language that's more suitable for
+
+00:01:57.840 --> 00:02:01.879
+building large systems like the kind that we are building in
+
+00:02:01.880 --> 00:02:07.279
+Emacs today. I also left out an important part of the talk,
+
+00:02:07.280 --> 00:02:12.079
+which is part of the motivation for transitioning from C to
+
+00:02:12.080 --> 00:02:15.599
+Lisp. And that's the performance characteristics
+
+00:02:15.600 --> 00:02:19.399
+fundamentally change when you get a modern and high
+
+00:02:19.400 --> 00:02:23.559
+performance Lisp system involved. it starts getting less
+
+00:02:23.560 --> 00:02:27.799
+practical to just call out to C to speed up every operation.
+
+00:02:27.800 --> 00:02:31.559
+Among other things, you lose the ability to use more
+
+00:02:31.560 --> 00:02:34.759
+advanced control structures, like the limited
+
+00:02:34.760 --> 00:02:40.039
+continuations. And you also have to pay the overhead of
+
+00:02:40.040 --> 00:02:43.879
+calling out to our foreign function. So it gets to be an
+
+00:02:43.880 --> 00:02:47.879
+increasingly better deal to optimize your list
+
+00:02:47.880 --> 00:02:52.719
+implementation and provide ways for building faster list
+
+00:02:52.720 --> 00:02:55.879
+programs, such as type annotations, once you've gotten
+
+00:02:55.880 --> 00:03:01.479
+over a certain threshold of performance.
+
+NOTE Q: About fibers: My understanding is that the problem with making Elisp concurrent is that none of the data structures (buffer, cons, vector, window etc) are concurrency-safe.  How do fibers help with this?
+
+00:03:01.480 --> 00:03:07.359
+I'm going to look at the pad. Here we go. The first question is
+
+00:03:07.360 --> 00:03:12.519
+about fibers and whether they help with making Elisp
+
+00:03:12.520 --> 00:03:18.279
+concurrent in terms of its data structures. Yes, that's
+
+00:03:18.280 --> 00:03:23.879
+absolutely correct. Fibers by themselves do not provide
+
+00:03:23.880 --> 00:03:26.799
+thread safety for any of the existing Emacs data
+
+00:03:26.800 --> 00:03:32.879
+structures. What they are useful for is building things
+
+00:03:32.880 --> 00:03:38.199
+that don't use Emacs data structures, say a network client
+
+00:03:38.200 --> 00:03:44.559
+that reads input from a stream or in scheme, a port or a stream
+
+00:03:44.560 --> 00:03:49.679
+instead of a buffer. And we can also take a look at options for
+
+00:03:49.680 --> 00:03:54.199
+making more Emacs features concurrency safe or thread
+
+00:03:54.200 --> 00:03:58.079
+safe. For example, we could introduce the idea of a thread
+
+00:03:58.080 --> 00:04:03.039
+local buffer that didn't require locks for sharing between
+
+00:04:03.040 --> 00:04:09.239
+different threads. And I'm not sure how that would develop,
+
+00:04:09.240 --> 00:04:12.319
+but I'm sure the Emacs maintainers already have some ideas
+
+00:04:12.320 --> 00:04:17.519
+in this direction. Fibers will basically provide a
+
+00:04:17.520 --> 00:04:22.159
+high-performance system that you can use apart from
+
+00:04:22.160 --> 00:04:28.079
+ordinary Emacs-less constructs.
+
+NOTE Q: Do you have a rough idea of how much of Guile is written in C?
+
+00:04:28.080 --> 00:04:34.839
+Let's see. We have another question. Emacs is roughly 25% C.
+
+00:04:34.840 --> 00:04:38.839
+How much of Guile is in C?
+
+00:04:38.840 --> 00:04:45.679
+Well, part of my point about C is not so much that there, well,
+
+00:04:45.680 --> 00:04:50.279
+obviously, I phrased it a little provocatively, but the
+
+00:04:50.280 --> 00:04:54.719
+problem is not so much that there is C, but that there is so
+
+00:04:54.720 --> 00:05:00.279
+much C involved in every single layer of the application.
+
+00:05:00.280 --> 00:05:04.559
+So, for example, we're limited in our ability to use tools
+
+00:05:04.560 --> 00:05:08.159
+like limit continuations, which can be used to express
+
+00:05:08.160 --> 00:05:13.599
+buffer local variable binding in a few dozen lines, because
+
+00:05:13.600 --> 00:05:21.839
+Emacs has so much calling back and forth between guile and C,
+
+00:05:21.840 --> 00:05:26.599
+due to so much basic functionality being in primitive C
+
+00:05:26.600 --> 00:05:34.119
+subroutines. So that's one issue apart from the question of
+
+00:05:34.120 --> 00:05:38.359
+how much is in a particular language. To answer the question
+
+00:05:38.360 --> 00:05:45.879
+about Guile, Guile has about 165,000 lines of scheme code
+
+00:05:45.880 --> 00:05:51.599
+and about 160,000 lines of C code, so it's about half and
+
+00:05:51.600 --> 00:05:55.879
+half. And that shouldn't really be surprising given that it
+
+00:05:55.880 --> 00:06:00.359
+is actually focused on low-level things like building a
+
+00:06:00.360 --> 00:06:05.079
+high-performance bytecode compiler, and a just-in-time
+
+00:06:05.080 --> 00:06:09.719
+compiler, and so on, as well as providing its own fairly
+
+00:06:09.720 --> 00:06:14.999
+rich, but still far less complete than Emacs's standard
+
+00:06:15.000 --> 00:06:19.239
+library, in terms of Ice9 and other system libraries
+
+NOTE Q: A Common Lisp implementation for Guile sounds really cool! Is there already work on this underway?
+
+00:06:19.240 --> 00:06:24.359
+shipped with Guile. The next question is on a Common Lisp
+
+00:06:24.360 --> 00:06:27.759
+implementation for Guile, and whether work on it is
+
+00:06:27.760 --> 00:06:33.079
+underway. In fact, work on it is already underway. I've been
+
+00:06:33.080 --> 00:06:36.399
+working on it on and off in my spare time for a couple of years
+
+00:06:36.400 --> 00:06:40.039
+now. I've gotten, I think, a couple of chapters of the
+
+00:06:40.040 --> 00:06:43.519
+hyperspectin, if you want to measure it that way. But I've
+
+00:06:43.520 --> 00:06:51.719
+been focusing my work more on research and on what we need to
+
+00:06:51.720 --> 00:06:57.399
+do to have a LISP environment, a polyglot LISP environment,
+
+00:06:57.400 --> 00:07:02.759
+wherein the features of Common Lisp and Scheme and Emacs
+
+00:07:02.760 --> 00:07:08.919
+Lisp can all work easily and ergonomically together. So
+
+00:07:08.920 --> 00:07:13.879
+this involves things like the question of Lisps having
+
+00:07:13.880 --> 00:07:22.079
+Lisp1s versus Lisp2s. That is, a Lisp1-like scheme has one
+
+00:07:22.080 --> 00:07:27.599
+namespace, like every variable is a single name that can
+
+00:07:27.600 --> 00:07:31.999
+refer to one value, whereas in Lisp2s like EmacsLisp,
+
+00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:37.399
+symbols can have different definitions as functions and as
+
+00:07:37.400 --> 00:07:41.119
+variables, as well as other namespaces like property
+
+00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:45.719
+lists. So Kent Pittman has some interesting thoughts on
+
+00:07:45.720 --> 00:07:51.039
+this that I've been looking into. Another issue is the
+
+00:07:51.040 --> 00:07:57.519
+interaction between package and module systems. So I don't
+
+00:07:57.520 --> 00:08:01.839
+have really anything ready to publish just yet on this, but I
+
+00:08:01.840 --> 00:08:05.279
+have been looking into the background issues of
+
+00:08:05.280 --> 00:08:08.119
+integrating this into Guile in a useful way.
+
+00:08:08.120 --> 00:08:15.719
+And let's see, one other thing I was going to mention.
+
+00:08:15.720 --> 00:08:27.679
+Okay, I've lost it. But yeah, there is some work already. And
+
+00:08:27.680 --> 00:08:30.399
+if people are interested in moving Emacs in this direction,
+
+00:08:30.400 --> 00:08:34.479
+then we'll certainly start working on it in earnest.
+
+NOTE Q: Did switching from guile 2 to 3 give any performance benefits?
+
+00:08:34.480 --> 00:08:41.119
+Another question, did switching from Guile 2 to 3 give any
+
+00:08:41.120 --> 00:08:46.279
+performance benefits? Well, honestly, we're not really
+
+00:08:46.280 --> 00:08:50.759
+benchmarking stuff here because Guile Emacs has so much
+
+00:08:50.760 --> 00:08:55.759
+overhead from structuring the compiler to closely conform
+
+00:08:55.760 --> 00:08:59.879
+to Emacs in terms of like even things as simple as metadata
+
+00:08:59.880 --> 00:09:03.879
+layout for variable information.
+
+00:09:03.880 --> 00:09:11.999
+So I haven't actually noticed a perceptual change. I would
+
+00:09:12.000 --> 00:09:15.359
+guess based on the Gabriel benchmark results that is
+
+00:09:15.360 --> 00:09:21.399
+benefited from what somewhat from Gal 3's performance
+
+00:09:21.400 --> 00:09:27.479
+improvements but for Emacs I just don't know yet and working
+
+00:09:27.480 --> 00:09:30.199
+on the compiler's code generation and lowering the
+
+00:09:30.200 --> 00:09:33.719
+overhead is going to be the thing that provides the most
+
+00:09:33.720 --> 00:09:37.319
+return for improving that aspect of Gal Emacs.
+
+00:09:37.320 --> 00:09:54.079
+Let's see, I see SICL mentioned here, as well as SPCL. And it
+
+00:09:54.080 --> 00:09:56.919
+could certainly help with the implementation of
+
+00:09:56.920 --> 00:10:01.519
+Commonwealth and Guile, because a lot of the basic stuff is
+
+00:10:01.520 --> 00:10:05.559
+just providing a new interface to some bit of
+
+00:10:05.560 --> 00:10:08.879
+functionality. Like the sequence library, it's mostly
+
+00:10:08.880 --> 00:10:13.279
+stuff that we already have through SR5 and so on. The
+
+00:10:13.280 --> 00:10:16.879
+difficult, well, not the difficult but the time consuming
+
+00:10:16.880 --> 00:10:21.599
+parts are going to be all the little DSL sitcom on this path
+
+00:10:21.600 --> 00:10:26.999
+packed up inside it like pretty printing format loop and so
+
+00:10:27.000 --> 00:10:32.359
+on. It's for those high-level features that I think we could
+
+00:10:32.360 --> 00:10:34.959
+potentially share code with other Common Lisp
+
+00:10:34.960 --> 00:10:39.039
+implementations. And Common Lisp implementations do tend
+
+00:10:39.040 --> 00:10:43.239
+to be permissively licensed, SPCL's public domain, for
+
+00:10:43.240 --> 00:10:46.439
+example, so there's no barrier to sharing code with them.
+
+NOTE Q: Do you know if the Emacs maintainers are interested in switching to Guile as the engine for Emacs Lisp?
+
+00:10:46.440 --> 00:10:52.719
+There's another question about whether the Emacs
+
+00:10:52.720 --> 00:10:55.679
+maintainers are interested in switching to Guile as the
+
+00:10:55.680 --> 00:10:59.199
+engine for Emacs Lisp. I can't speak for the current
+
+00:10:59.200 --> 00:11:05.439
+maintainers. I can say that people have talked to previous
+
+00:11:05.440 --> 00:11:10.439
+Emacs maintainers about the whole idea, and their attitude
+
+00:11:10.440 --> 00:11:15.479
+was generally cautiously optimistic. As in, it's not
+
+00:11:15.480 --> 00:11:18.799
+something they, it's somewhat political, they didn't want
+
+00:11:18.800 --> 00:11:23.479
+to get into it, but they didn't think that it was a bad idea,
+
+00:11:23.480 --> 00:11:25.919
+and they wanted to know more about how it might evolve in the
+
+00:11:25.920 --> 00:11:31.879
+future. I can comment that Eli Zaretsky, who I believe is the
+
+00:11:31.880 --> 00:11:36.879
+current Emacs maintainer, is very concerned about
+
+00:11:36.880 --> 00:11:44.679
+cross-platform compatibility. And so if I can guess at his
+
+00:11:44.680 --> 00:11:48.519
+priorities correctly, I think that that's something that
+
+00:11:48.520 --> 00:11:52.599
+we'll have to make sure is rock solid before we propose any
+
+00:11:52.600 --> 00:11:58.359
+kind of upstreaming of Gala Emacs. but in general
+
+00:11:58.360 --> 00:12:03.719
+maintainers have been cautious but curious. So I just
+
+00:12:03.720 --> 00:12:06.719
+wanted to break in and note at this point that as lives I
+
+00:12:06.720 --> 00:12:09.519
+didn't sorry I couldn't do so more gracefully while we were
+
+00:12:09.520 --> 00:12:13.439
+still on stream but I wanted to let you know that just as of 10
+
+00:12:13.440 --> 00:12:17.399
+seconds ago or so we've had to cut away into our next talk but
+
+00:12:17.400 --> 00:12:22.199
+we can keep going here as long as we like. Okay, let's wrap up.
+
+00:12:22.200 --> 00:12:25.399
+There's only a couple questions left on the pad, so I'll
+
+00:12:25.400 --> 00:12:29.999
+answer those, and then I'll be available on IRC. So, the next
+
+NOTE Q: Do you think guile-emacs will be able to use or (collaborate with) some of the other awesome projects around Emacs Lisp?
+
+00:12:30.000 --> 00:12:33.319
+question is whether Guile Emacs will be able to collaborate
+
+00:12:33.320 --> 00:12:35.959
+with projects like Gypsum and
+
+00:12:35.960 --> 00:12:44.319
+the native compilation projects or the pre-scheme
+
+00:12:44.320 --> 00:12:48.039
+efforts. Oh, yes, that is one of the things I forgot to bring
+
+00:12:48.040 --> 00:12:53.199
+up in my talk. So, first of all, Gypsum is approaching a
+
+00:12:53.200 --> 00:12:58.199
+similar idea from a different direction. And we clearly
+
+00:12:58.200 --> 00:13:03.919
+have a different focus. My focus is on improving Emacs Lisp
+
+00:13:03.920 --> 00:13:09.279
+and making Emacs itself better by integrating Guile Elisp
+
+00:13:09.280 --> 00:13:15.159
+and Emacs, rather than replacing eLisp or deprecating it in
+
+00:13:15.160 --> 00:13:20.159
+any way. But given gypsum's requirements, I do think that we
+
+00:13:20.160 --> 00:13:26.439
+could share a lot of code required for emulating basic Emacs
+
+00:13:26.440 --> 00:13:29.839
+functionality. And this could even become interesting if
+
+00:13:29.840 --> 00:13:35.799
+we get to the point of rewriting parts of Emacs in Lisp. With
+
+00:13:35.800 --> 00:13:41.279
+respect to the native compilation effort, I'm familiar
+
+00:13:41.280 --> 00:13:45.879
+with it. I'm not that impressed with the results of it. It's a
+
+00:13:45.880 --> 00:13:52.359
+very impressive effort, but as far as I can tell, it's
+
+00:13:52.360 --> 00:13:57.239
+accelerating a bytecode interpreter that just simply has
+
+00:13:57.240 --> 00:14:02.719
+an out-of-date design, to be quite blunt. It's possible
+
+00:14:02.720 --> 00:14:08.919
+that Emacs's JIT has ideas that Guile should adopt, like
+
+00:14:08.920 --> 00:14:14.039
+perhaps libgccjit might perhaps be better than GNU
+
+00:14:14.040 --> 00:14:16.999
+Lightning, which is a relatively simple JIT that Guile
+
+00:14:17.000 --> 00:14:17.639
+uses.
+
+00:14:17.640 --> 00:14:25.839
+But it doesn't have to have a direct relationship to Guile
+
+00:14:25.840 --> 00:14:31.159
+Emacs. And as far as pre-scheme goes, I have been watching
+
+00:14:31.160 --> 00:14:36.199
+Flat Watson's work on pre-scheme with great interest
+
+00:14:36.200 --> 00:14:39.999
+because Scheme 48 used to be my favorite implementation.
+
+00:14:40.000 --> 00:14:44.919
+And I do think that it could be, it's a tool that we should look
+
+00:14:44.920 --> 00:14:47.879
+at when we're thinking about moving functionality into
+
+00:14:47.880 --> 00:14:53.199
+Lisp and could certainly make it easier to upstream some of
+
+00:14:53.200 --> 00:14:54.519
+the work we may end up doing.
+
+00:14:54.520 --> 00:15:04.199
+All right, do we have more questions?
+
+NOTE Q: SBCL, ...You mentioned Robert Strandh's SICL along with SBCL---does that work help with the implementation of CL in Guile?
+
+00:15:04.200 --> 00:15:13.159
+There's a question about SICL and SBCL. I think I answered
+
+00:15:13.160 --> 00:15:17.519
+that earlier. It should help us implement Common Lisp when
+
+00:15:17.520 --> 00:15:24.999
+it comes to high-level features and the various large
+
+00:15:25.000 --> 00:15:28.759
+subcomponents of Common Lisp. Another important factor is
+
+00:15:28.760 --> 00:15:32.279
+that Guile already has decent support for the Common Lisp
+
+00:15:32.280 --> 00:15:35.799
+object system. Without that, it would be far more
+
+00:15:35.800 --> 00:15:41.919
+difficult. But I do expect that we can share code with other
+
+00:15:41.920 --> 00:15:44.799
+Common Lisp implementations. I've personally rated
+
+00:15:44.800 --> 00:15:49.199
+Common Lisp compiler code when working on Guile Hoot, for
+
+00:15:49.200 --> 00:15:52.959
+example. So there are definitely places where they can
+
+00:15:52.960 --> 00:15:54.039
+contribute.
+
+00:15:54.040 --> 00:16:02.839
+Regarding the Hoot project and its relationship to
+
+00:16:02.840 --> 00:16:11.079
+Galimax, it's a purely speculative thing. First of all,
+
+00:16:11.080 --> 00:16:17.079
+Hoot is only tested on Scheme-to-WebAssembly
+
+00:16:17.080 --> 00:16:22.599
+compilations. I've heard some suggestions that some uses
+
+00:16:22.600 --> 00:16:26.439
+of Tree.io may not be compatible with the Hoot compiler. I'm
+
+00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:29.999
+not sure if that's the case or not.
+
+00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:41.199
+But it is a complete enough project that if Emacs is, say, 90%
+
+00:16:41.200 --> 00:16:45.119
+Lisp, there's only a few thousand lines of C code to
+
+00:16:45.120 --> 00:16:49.159
+implement, then it would be entirely practical to compile
+
+00:16:49.160 --> 00:16:54.159
+Emacs WebAssembly, as long as we had a back end, like one
+
+00:16:54.160 --> 00:16:58.119
+based on the browser's document object model, or some sort
+
+00:16:58.120 --> 00:17:04.439
+of graphical interface through WASI. And that may have some
+
+00:17:04.440 --> 00:17:07.359
+interesting applications for portability to unusual
+
+00:17:07.360 --> 00:17:11.359
+platforms. It may even bring performance advantages in
+
+00:17:11.360 --> 00:17:18.959
+cases where the WebAssembly implementation is connected
+
+00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:22.759
+to a tracing just-in-time compiler, because that may be
+
+00:17:22.760 --> 00:17:26.839
+more appropriate to the high level of dynamism the Emacs
+
+00:17:26.840 --> 00:17:32.439
+list has than the kind of simple template JITs that both
+
+00:17:32.440 --> 00:17:34.519
+Emacs and Guile are using.
+
+00:17:34.520 --> 00:17:39.799
+What a fascinating point. Just to break into active
+
+00:17:39.800 --> 00:17:43.999
+listening a little so this doesn't, to you, feel like you're
+
+00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:46.919
+talking to yourself. I can see from chat and the questions
+
+00:17:46.920 --> 00:17:51.439
+still coming in, you know, comments. You know, it isn't, but
+
+00:17:51.440 --> 00:17:54.999
+I just want you to be able to hear and feel that. Yeah, great,
+
+00:17:55.000 --> 00:18:00.679
+great point there. All right. Thank you. And yes, if there
+
+00:18:00.680 --> 00:18:04.679
+are more questions, keep throwing them at me. I should
+
+00:18:04.680 --> 00:18:07.999
+probably also mention I will have to jump out myself, but the
+
+00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:10.799
+recording will automatically end when we all jump out or
+
+00:18:10.800 --> 00:18:15.199
+just drop a note anywhere, ping me, whatever. And I'll come
+
+00:18:15.200 --> 00:18:18.439
+along and shut off the recording and we'll trim it up before
+
+00:18:18.440 --> 00:18:21.879
+we publish it. I'm looking forward to reading through
+
+00:18:21.880 --> 00:18:30.199
+anything I do miss. Thank you. Sounds good.
+
+00:18:30.200 --> 00:19:08.439
+All right, I'm not seeing changes in the etherpad. So I'm
+
+00:19:08.440 --> 00:19:14.999
+going to close this in maybe 30 seconds if there are no more
+
+00:19:15.000 --> 00:19:21.159
+additions. Thanks, everyone, for the interesting and very
+
+00:19:21.160 --> 00:19:26.399
+pointed questions on some of the most significant areas. I
+
+00:19:26.400 --> 00:19:31.919
+appreciate everyone's feedback. I'm glad this provoked so
+
+00:19:31.920 --> 00:19:33.679
+much curiosity in people.
+
+00:19:33.680 --> 00:19:44.519
+Thank you, janneke.
+
+00:19:44.520 --> 00:19:51.439
+All right, I think we are done with the Q&A session, so I'm
+
+00:19:51.440 --> 00:19:57.199
+going to close this BBB and we can continue with the rest of
+
+00:19:57.200 --> 00:19:58.719
+EmacsConf.
+
+00:19:58.720 --> 00:20:10.160
+You are currently the only person in this conference.
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@@ -0,0 +1,725 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+00:00.069 --> 00:01.850
+Troy Hinckley's project that I'm talking about. I was going
+
+00:02.350 --> 00:22.139
+to mention this in my presentation, but it's possible,
+
+00:02.350 --> 00:22.139
+theoretically, that Troy Hinckley, his project could be
+
+00:02.350 --> 00:22.139
+used as a scheme of limitation that actually runs my own
+
+00:02.350 --> 00:22.139
+version of Emacs. And although, you know, This is
+
+00:25.478 --> 00:29.380
+completely theoretical, and I don't know how difficult
+
+00:25.478 --> 00:29.380
+that would be. But if Troy Hinckley implemented enough of
+
+00:30.781 --> 00:47.029
+the R7-RS standard in Rust, it would theoretically be
+
+00:30.781 --> 00:47.029
+possible to run the Gypsum editor in Troy Hinckley's own
+
+00:30.781 --> 00:47.029
+editor. I thought that was kind of interesting, and I
+
+00:48.270 --> 00:53.833
+thought it was worth mentioning, at least in the questions
+
+00:48.270 --> 00:53.833
+and answers.
+
+01:12.179 --> 01:14.080
+I also mentioned this in the presentation. I wanted to see
+
+01:14.940 --> 01:22.364
+Robin Templeton's project presentation, but
+
+01:14.940 --> 01:22.364
+unfortunately it's going to be at like four in the morning
+
+01:14.940 --> 01:22.364
+for me. So I'm going to try and watch that tomorrow, but
+
+01:22.984 --> 01:31.428
+that's also going to be a very interesting project to keep an
+
+01:22.984 --> 01:31.428
+eye on if you're interested in Scheme. That's the project
+
+01:33.149 --> 01:38.051
+where you've got the Guylain interpreter running inside of
+
+01:33.149 --> 01:38.051
+the Emacs process. It's dynamically linked as a library.
+
+02:04.699 --> 02:06.748
+I'm ready for questions from anybody. You can ask or you can
+
+02:07.431 --> 02:09.079
+type. It's up to you.
+
+02:32.319 --> 02:34.521
+Okay, let me check the etherpad.
+
+02:37.304 --> 02:38.245
+Let's see here.
+
+02:41.208 --> 02:42.830
+I'm not sure if I'm doing that right.
+
+02:46.373 --> 02:47.554
+Let me check one more time. Oh, there it goes.
+
+02:54.221 --> 02:55.702
+Let's see, so this is...
+
+03:00.151 --> 03:02.072
+I didn't know about that first bit of history. Oh, I've heard
+
+03:02.332 --> 00:03:09.369
+RMS say that Scheme Guile is just a nicer Lisp, but I didn't
+
+03:02.332 --> 03:09.776
+know there were concrete talks attempts to use Guile for
+
+03:02.332 --> 03:09.776
+Emacs that early. Let's see, that was from janneke.
+
+NOTE Q: I'm curious to know how the hell guile-emacs deals with all of the dynamically scoped modules out there. Is there any effort to automatically modularize and namespace stuff?
+
+00:03:09.370 --> 00:03:19.241
+I'm curious to know how the hell Guile Emacs deals with all the
+
+03:14.318 --> 03:19.241
+dynamically scoped modules out there. Is there any effort
+
+03:20.181 --> 03:24.943
+to automatically modularize and name? Let's see.
+
+03:30.523 --> 03:35.806
+That might be a better question for Robin Templeton. In my
+
+03:36.727 --> 03:46.573
+own project,
+
+03:36.727 --> 03:46.573
+there's no module system for Emacs Lisp. There is a module
+
+03:46.693 --> 03:48.234
+system for Scheme. And the Emacs Lisp interpreter runs in
+
+03:49.695 --> 03:55.158
+its own environment. the require system or whatever module
+
+03:57.068 --> 04:11.736
+system that Emacs has, once it's implemented, all of that
+
+03:57.068 --> 04:11.736
+would just happen inside of the Emacs Lisp environment,
+
+03:57.068 --> 04:11.736
+which is inside of the Scheme environment. And
+
+04:12.437 --> 04:15.898
+environments are objects in Scheme.
+
+04:21.522 --> 04:24.103
+I think a more difficult question is how to handle
+
+04:26.420 --> 04:31.942
+threading, and Scheme has very good threading built in, in
+
+04:26.420 --> 04:31.942
+Serphe-18[??].
+
+04:34.283 --> 04:48.028
+But I don't think it will be easy to write Emacs Lisp form
+
+04:34.283 --> 04:48.028
+bindings to the Scheme multi-threading implementation.
+
+04:48.548 --> 04:50.749
+Emacs Lisp was just not cut out for that kind of thing. So I
+
+04:51.710 --> 04:59.894
+think each Emacs Lisp, you could, I suppose, have multiple
+
+04:51.710 --> 04:59.894
+threads each running their own Emacs Lisp environment.
+
+05:01.375 --> 05:02.956
+Scheme would make that very simple to do.
+
+05:06.018 --> 05:16.744
+And then there'd just be a question of how you would get those
+
+05:06.018 --> 05:16.744
+different interpreters to communicate with each other,
+
+05:06.018 --> 05:16.744
+perhaps using the same protocol that's used by the Emacs
+
+05:06.018 --> 05:16.744
+server. But I haven't thought that far ahead yet.
+
+NOTE Q: Would it be possible to support a GUI toolkit other than GTK?
+
+05:23.646 --> 05:28.709
+Would it be possible to support a GUI toolkit other than the
+
+05:23.646 --> 05:28.709
+GTK? Like, how is it still supports Lucid? Yes, this is
+
+05:31.291 --> 05:33.232
+absolutely a goal of the project. I'm trying to keep the back
+
+05:33.873 --> 05:38.416
+end separate as possible. The scheme has what you call
+
+05:39.817 --> 05:42.478
+parameters. And these are like global variables that are
+
+05:43.199 --> 05:46.221
+still somewhat thread safe. And every call to the GUI goes
+
+05:47.484 --> 05:51.225
+through a parameter. So the Emacs, the interpreter and the
+
+05:52.125 --> 05:59.367
+editor logic is all in one module. And then that module calls
+
+05:59.987 --> 06:04.309
+out into a separate GUI module. And then you can implement
+
+06:04.989 --> 06:07.690
+different GUI modules. So you could have one for GTK3, one
+
+06:08.430 --> 06:13.171
+for GTK4, if you want to write the extern C bindings around Qt
+
+06:13.843 --> 06:20.725
+or full tick, that would certainly be possible as well. It
+
+06:21.185 --> 06:32.168
+would be nice maybe to have an SDL implementation based
+
+06:21.185 --> 06:32.168
+maybe on Chikiti or some kind of immediate mode GUI,
+
+06:21.185 --> 06:32.168
+something like that. But definitely GTK3 through Guile GI
+
+06:33.808 --> 06:38.750
+is the reference implementation. Things start there. But
+
+06:41.298 --> 06:43.959
+I'm very interested in supporting other GUIs, yes. Let's
+
+06:45.199 --> 00:06:45.256
+see.
+
+NOTE Q: Do you plan to provide improvements to Elisp as a language, or is the focus on a compatibility layer to facilitate doing all new extensions, etc. in Scheme?
+
+00:06:45.257 --> 00:06:45.879
+Question, do you plan to provide improvements to ELisp
+
+06:47.540 --> 06:56.342
+as a language or focus on a compatibility layer to
+
+06:47.540 --> 06:56.342
+facilitate all new extensions in Scheme? Yeah, the second
+
+06:57.142 --> 06:57.962
+one. I want to move off to Scheme. I would like for this
+
+07:03.384 --> 07:05.264
+project to try and keep up to date with each new release of
+
+07:05.666 --> 07:10.789
+Emacs and Emacs Lisp. That's a difficult moving target to
+
+07:11.850 --> 07:14.552
+follow, I realize. But to the greatest extent possible, any
+
+07:15.152 --> 07:23.397
+new features to Emacs Lisp will be pulled in from GNU Emacs.
+
+07:25.419 --> 07:29.041
+If we happen to be able to implement something cool in
+
+07:25.419 --> 07:29.041
+Scheme, and be able to port it over to Emacs Lisp, then sure,
+
+07:29.437 --> 07:36.543
+it'd be nice to be able to upload or to submit that upstream to
+
+07:29.437 --> 07:36.543
+the GNU Emacs. But I think I would prefer to have new features
+
+07:38.584 --> 07:43.708
+written in Scheme. I would like this gypsum to be more of a
+
+07:43.989 --> 07:52.075
+Scheme app platform that just happens to be able to also run
+
+07:43.989 --> 07:52.075
+Emacs Lisp. That's how I see it. Of course, this will be a
+
+07:54.577 --> 07:56.699
+community project. I'm open to debate about that if anybody
+
+07:58.809 --> 08:02.012
+wants to convince me otherwise.
+
+08:08.439 --> 08:11.683
+Why is being able to interpret all of that EL a useful goal?
+
+08:12.464 --> 08:14.626
+Sure, there is a lot of code written in Elisp. Can we
+
+08:15.206 --> 08:17.749
+consider... Oh, it's still being written. Please go ahead
+
+08:18.390 --> 08:19.491
+and finish writing.
+
+NOTE Q: Can we consider a translator like utility to convert elisp to scheme, once guile-emacs becomes a reality?
+
+08:29.673 --> 08:35.576
+Can we consider a translator like utility to convert eLisp
+
+08:29.673 --> 08:35.576
+to Scheme once Guile-Emacs has become a reality?
+
+08:36.716 --> 08:37.076
+Certainly. For the time being, I just wanted to get the
+
+08:38.717 --> 08:42.639
+interpreter running. So the actual, the Guile-Emacs Lisp,
+
+08:44.520 --> 08:58.666
+the one that was written in 2011 that I didn't write, that
+
+08:44.520 --> 08:58.666
+actually does compile to, I think it's the tree
+
+08:44.520 --> 08:58.666
+intermediate representation It's one of the intermediate
+
+08:59.076 --> 09:03.697
+languages that Guile uses to compile Guile scheme itself.
+
+09:04.817 --> 09:09.299
+So the Emacs lisp that was written before actually does
+
+09:04.817 --> 09:09.299
+that. It actually compiles and makes use of the entire Guile
+
+09:09.339 --> 09:20.761
+compiler tool chain and actually produces like JIT
+
+09:09.339 --> 09:20.761
+compilable binaries, which is really cool. Like I said,
+
+09:23.342 --> 09:25.943
+that's the one that I had trouble getting to work properly.
+
+09:29.209 --> 09:30.890
+Maybe we can follow that architecture. I'm not sure how to do
+
+09:33.052 --> 09:45.102
+that, but I would like to be able to do some kind of
+
+09:33.052 --> 09:45.102
+translating, keeping in mind that we want to have this be
+
+09:33.052 --> 09:45.102
+portable, do various schemes. And so Guile makes this very
+
+09:45.988 --> 09:50.289
+easy, but other schemes don't. Gambit might do this pretty
+
+09:51.549 --> 09:53.530
+well as well. It compiles to C and then compiles C down to a
+
+09:53.950 --> 10:01.471
+dynamically linkable library. So yeah, I think probably
+
+10:03.372 --> 10:09.373
+the most portable, I'm just thinking out loud right now,
+
+10:10.652 --> 10:21.715
+most portable implementation will just be able to
+
+10:10.652 --> 10:21.715
+translate Emacs Lisp directly to Scheme, which is not what
+
+10:10.652 --> 10:21.715
+the old Guile Emacs Lisp implementation does. That goes to
+
+10:21.755 --> 10:26.777
+TreeIL, so it's very, very Guile-specific, can't be
+
+10:21.755 --> 10:26.777
+ported. But yeah, if we could somehow get Emacs Lisp
+
+10:28.359 --> 10:42.045
+translated to Scheme and then compiled, say, in Shea Scheme
+
+10:28.359 --> 10:42.045
+or Gambit or MIT Scheme or one of those other compilers, that
+
+10:28.359 --> 10:42.045
+would be very cool. And I would absolutely love to do that.
+
+10:44.906 --> 10:49.948
+And I would very quickly accept any code into the code base
+
+10:44.906 --> 10:49.948
+that would do that.
+
+NOTE Q: Why is being able to interpret all of \`init.el\` an useful goal?
+
+10:54.390 --> 10:56.291
+Oh, and to answer the question about init.el,
+
+10:59.207 --> 11:17.215
+It's just because people spend a lot of time on their configs
+
+10:59.207 --> 11:17.215
+and it would be nice if, you know, you're starting to use this
+
+10:59.207 --> 11:17.215
+new editor and want it to be similar to Emacs users, just the
+
+10:59.207 --> 11:17.215
+Emacs community in general and people who are familiar with
+
+10:59.207 --> 11:17.215
+using Emacs. It would be more useful to everybody in the
+
+11:17.715 --> 11:25.379
+Emacs community if this were more compatible with GNU
+
+11:17.715 --> 11:25.379
+Emacs. And so that's why that's, I think that's an important
+
+11:25.679 --> 11:27.960
+goal.
+
+11:34.465 --> 11:35.467
+Question is not yet. Great. Oh, here comes another
+
+11:38.471 --> 11:39.613
+question.
+
+NOTE Q: What is the plan to handle elisp packages that depend on 3rd party/external libraries? (libgit/magit or rg/ripgrep)?
+
+12:08.539 --> 12:17.742
+Okay, what is the plan to handle elisp packages that depend
+
+12:08.539 --> 12:17.742
+on third-party or external libraries like git or magit
+
+12:08.539 --> 12:17.742
+or ripgrep? So that's going to be tricky. It depends on how
+
+12:21.523 --> 12:26.224
+these external packages are linked into emacs. If it's
+
+12:26.844 --> 12:33.646
+going to be a dynamic library like Robin Templeton's
+
+12:26.844 --> 12:33.646
+project which you load the libgit library into the Emacs
+
+12:35.289 --> 12:41.931
+process, that is going to be extremely difficult. So if you
+
+12:44.032 --> 12:52.975
+have an external library like, I don't know, libgit or
+
+12:44.032 --> 12:52.975
+what's the GUI thing? Cabal. No, not Cabal. Cairo, libcairo
+
+12:57.736 --> 13:01.398
+to do SVG graphics and so on.
+
+13:04.483 --> 13:17.480
+You can do that very easily with Guile, but then on top of
+
+13:04.483 --> 13:17.480
+that, implementing Emacs list bindings to it, I mean,
+
+13:04.483 --> 13:17.480
+you've got two layers there, and that makes things pretty
+
+13:04.483 --> 13:17.480
+difficult. So it's possible. And to some degree, maybe
+
+13:21.935 --> 13:30.842
+necessary for example, Cairo, if we want to do SVG graphics
+
+13:21.935 --> 13:30.842
+the way that Emacs Lisp does, we're going to have to have
+
+13:21.935 --> 13:30.842
+that. So that would be necessary. We would have to have those
+
+13:32.643 --> 13:33.944
+two layers. Yes, let's do that. But if it's like for Magit,
+
+13:38.047 --> 13:50.596
+you can just call out to your git process, and then you're
+
+13:38.047 --> 13:50.596
+just using the regular process APIs that Emacs Lisp has. And
+
+13:51.451 --> 13:58.475
+that can be, already we, like Guile has some very good
+
+13:51.451 --> 13:58.475
+implementations for process management. And so it would
+
+13:59.055 --> 14:05.438
+just be a matter of wrapping up those in the Emacs lisp form
+
+13:59.055 --> 14:05.438
+bindings. So yeah, dynamic libraries, I wanna try to avoid.
+
+14:12.222 --> 14:20.366
+And I would prefer to do things more through, you know,
+
+14:12.222 --> 14:20.366
+launching a child process in the Emacs process. and then
+
+14:20.956 --> 14:24.798
+communicating over the standard in, standard out
+
+14:20.956 --> 14:24.798
+channels.
+
+14:29.460 --> 14:40.386
+That's the easier way to do things, I think, because then you
+
+14:29.460 --> 14:40.386
+can just use the process library that Emacs already has, and
+
+14:29.460 --> 14:40.386
+you can just reuse all of that code.
+
+14:43.969 --> 14:49.912
+I'm not sure how ripgrep works, unfortunately, but I
+
+14:43.969 --> 14:49.912
+believe that's also a process, a child process. So, we can
+
+14:50.412 --> 14:53.774
+just reuse all of the Emacs Lisp code that does that already.
+
+14:54.014 --> 15:05.979
+We just need to make sure that the process management
+
+14:54.014 --> 15:05.979
+implementation and scheme is properly bound to Emacs Lisp,
+
+14:54.014 --> 15:05.979
+and it works the same as GNU Emacs does. Once that's all set,
+
+15:06.360 --> 15:13.383
+then these porcelains, like around git, should fall into
+
+15:06.360 --> 15:13.383
+place. without too much difficulty, hopefully.
+
+NOTE Q: Not really a question, but how about Schemacs as a name?
+
+15:21.112 --> 15:22.593
+How about Schemax as a name? I like the name. I like that name.
+
+15:28.937 --> 15:32.920
+I haven't really looked into like, is that already used or is
+
+15:28.937 --> 15:32.920
+that going to be confusing? But certainly something we can
+
+15:33.380 --> 15:35.021
+discuss.
+
+15:38.243 --> 15:39.264
+Another thing I should mention,
+
+15:42.157 --> 15:48.278
+I should probably set up a server or something like Discord
+
+15:42.157 --> 15:48.278
+or something like that. Discourse, not Discord.
+
+15:51.619 --> 15:56.220
+Discourse, the open source one, where we could actually
+
+15:51.619 --> 15:56.220
+chat about this stuff. For the time being, ActivityPub,
+
+15:56.540 --> 16:05.562
+mostly Mastodon, is how I communicate with people in real
+
+15:56.540 --> 16:05.562
+time, that or email. So if you want to get a hold of me, check
+
+16:09.809 --> 16:15.571
+the notes for this presentation and just send me an email.
+
+16:16.752 --> 16:18.012
+Any question at all is fine. If you want to contribute code,
+
+16:19.633 --> 16:25.495
+if you want to just learn how to contribute code, send me any
+
+16:19.633 --> 16:25.495
+questions. It's fine. I'm happy to answer them. And we can
+
+16:30.256 --> 16:31.757
+talk about the name as well.
+
+NOTE Q: Why is it not feasible for the Emacs layer that interprets Emacs Lisp (the core in C) ot have a Scheme interpreter, instead of using Guile?
+
+16:45.931 --> 16:54.215
+Okay, why is it not feasible for the Emacs layer that
+
+16:45.931 --> 16:54.215
+interprets Emacs Lisp, the core in C, have a Scheme
+
+16:45.931 --> 16:54.215
+interpreter instead of using Guile? Let's see, I have to,
+
+16:55.496 --> 16:57.257
+okay. Emacs layer interprets Emacs Lisp, the core in C, have
+
+16:57.737 --> 17:05.942
+a Scheme interpreter instead of using Guile. Okay, so that,
+
+17:07.362 --> 17:13.906
+the question xlarsx is asking, xlars, x, So Lars is asking,
+
+17:14.744 --> 17:28.093
+is it not feasible for there to be an
+
+17:14.744 --> 17:28.093
+Emacs layer that interprets Emacs Lisp have a scheme
+
+17:14.744 --> 17:28.093
+interpreter? This is Robin Templeton's project. And
+
+17:30.815 --> 17:32.156
+they're presenting later today. So check the roster and be
+
+17:32.697 --> 17:41.303
+sure to see that presentation because that's exactly what
+
+17:32.697 --> 17:41.303
+Robin Templeton is doing. That's not what I'm doing though.
+
+17:44.419 --> 17:46.459
+I'm trying to create something in Scheme. But yes, there is
+
+17:48.280 --> 17:54.921
+an attempt to get an Scheme interpreter to run inside of
+
+17:48.280 --> 17:54.921
+Emacs itself. And it has its own method of binding to Emacs
+
+17:55.181 --> 18:05.323
+Lisp functions and translating data like Lisp structures
+
+17:55.181 --> 18:05.323
+between Guile Scheme and Emacs Lisp. Robin will explain all
+
+18:05.943 --> 18:08.284
+of that in their presentation.
+
+18:28.519 --> 18:33.020
+OK, I think I've got through all the questions on Etherpad.
+
+18:33.620 --> 18:35.500
+But I'm going to hang out here for a bit longer. And yeah, feel
+
+18:37.621 --> 18:46.182
+free to do a video chat with me or send me more questions on
+
+18:37.621 --> 18:46.182
+Etherpad or here in the big blue button. And so I'm just going
+
+18:47.002 --> 18:48.082
+to hang out. And thanks for asking all your questions. And
+
+18:51.663 --> 18:56.024
+yeah, I look forward to working with all of you if you're
+
+18:51.663 --> 18:56.024
+interested. take it easy. Thanks so much for the talk and
+
+18:59.935 --> 19:08.180
+looking forward to seeing some of your progress as this
+
+18:59.935 --> 19:08.180
+moves forward, exciting space. We'll go ahead and leave the
+
+19:09.261 --> 19:14.925
+room open for you and thanks for offering to hang out and chat
+
+19:09.261 --> 19:14.925
+with other people that come by. Feel free to throw something
+
+19:15.025 --> 19:18.287
+in the chat if you want to remind people you're still here.
+
+19:19.557 --> 19:25.143
+Meanwhile, on the stream, we have moved along to our next
+
+19:19.557 --> 19:25.143
+talk on Rust, and that is just getting started. But again,
+
+19:25.283 --> 19:30.549
+we're continuing to record this, and I'll just keep an eye on
+
+19:25.283 --> 19:30.549
+it to stop the recording. Thank you. Thank you. It was
+
+19:33.352 --> 19:33.853
+awesome.
+
+21:47.935 --> 21:50.558
+So it seems like it's slowed down here for the Q&A. I don't see
+
+21:50.638 --> 21:53.741
+anybody else on BBB, so I'm going to go ahead and stop the
+
+21:50.638 --> 21:53.741
+recording. We can start it back up. I would say, yes, there's
+
+21:55.282 --> 21:58.906
+a lot of things you can do with this. You can handle
+
+21:58.926 --> 22:00.627
+processing. Yeah, I'm going to try and join over the chat for
+
+22:02.029 --> 22:07.614
+the next talk. I'm not sure if I can do both big blue buttons at
+
+22:08.635 --> 22:11.538
+the same time. You should be able to just watch your mute
+
+22:13.206 --> 22:19.998
+settings and mute tab settings and whatever all you have to
+
+22:13.206 --> 22:19.998
+avoid bleed through. Okay.
diff --git a/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-hyperbole--fun-things-with-gnu-hyperbole--mats-lidell--answers.vtt b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-hyperbole--fun-things-with-gnu-hyperbole--mats-lidell--answers.vtt
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+WEBVTT
+
+00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:12.919
+And I believe we are live. Hi, Mats, how are you doing? Oh, I'm
+
+00:00:12.920 --> 00:00:17.319
+fine. It's a pleasure to see you again after last year. And I
+
+00:00:17.320 --> 00:00:20.519
+was trying to think about it. We saw you last year, but didn't
+
+00:00:20.520 --> 00:00:26.919
+we see you as well in 2022? Yes. This is my third year. Yeah,
+
+00:00:26.920 --> 00:00:29.559
+well, thank you for being a regular at EmacsConf. It's
+
+00:00:29.560 --> 00:00:31.919
+always a pleasure to have you chat about hyperbole.
+
+00:00:31.920 --> 00:00:33.559
+Although I think you're the only one chatting about
+
+00:00:33.560 --> 00:00:37.159
+hyperbole this year compared to last year. Yes,
+
+00:00:37.160 --> 00:00:41.879
+unfortunately, that's, yeah, Bob has some family issues.
+
+00:00:41.880 --> 00:00:45.839
+So yeah, I'm here, but I'm here. Yeah, but we are happy to have
+
+00:00:45.840 --> 00:00:49.199
+you here. And as I was saying before, I'm not sure if you were,
+
+00:00:49.200 --> 00:00:52.519
+you had the time to watch the previous talk by Mohsen, you
+
+00:00:52.520 --> 00:00:56.239
+know, you had, there were plenty of ideas, I think that were
+
+00:00:56.240 --> 00:00:58.999
+very similar to what Hyperbole is trying to do by having
+
+00:00:59.000 --> 00:01:04.399
+buttons and having stuff that can be in any other mode that
+
+00:01:04.400 --> 00:01:08.399
+would allow you to supplement a coding file with extra
+
+00:01:08.400 --> 00:01:11.879
+information. So the ideas are living on. And even though
+
+00:01:11.880 --> 00:01:15.239
+hyperbole is one thing, I feel like other packages are also
+
+00:01:15.240 --> 00:01:17.759
+taking a lot of inspiration for it. So congratulations on
+
+00:01:17.760 --> 00:01:21.439
+being an inspiration, I suppose. Oh, thanks.
+
+00:01:21.440 --> 00:01:24.839
+Unfortunately, I have not had any time to watch anything of
+
+00:01:24.840 --> 00:01:29.759
+the Emacs conference since apparently my life is like every
+
+00:01:29.760 --> 00:01:33.559
+time it's Emacs conference, I do something else. So I've been
+
+00:01:33.560 --> 00:01:37.919
+just moving this weekend. So, I'm in a new apartment, but I'm
+
+00:01:37.920 --> 00:01:42.479
+connected and everything seems to work okay. So, I can't
+
+00:01:42.480 --> 00:01:45.199
+relate to what we said in any of the other talks, I'm afraid.
+
+00:01:45.200 --> 00:01:48.199
+So, sorry about that. No, that's okay. No, but that's
+
+00:01:48.200 --> 00:01:51.559
+completely fine, because you may be able to watch the talks
+
+00:01:51.560 --> 00:01:54.599
+at any point later on, because I'll remind the viewers that
+
+00:01:54.600 --> 00:01:57.319
+the talks are currently available on EmacsConf or the
+
+00:01:57.320 --> 00:02:01.199
+pre-recorded one. And I think we only had one live talk
+
+00:02:01.200 --> 00:02:04.239
+yesterday. All of them are already available with
+
+00:02:04.240 --> 00:02:08.039
+subtitles and all the funny stuff that we usually put. So
+
+00:02:08.040 --> 00:02:11.359
+that's an invitation for people to watch it. All right. So,
+
+00:02:11.360 --> 00:02:14.439
+Mats, before we start with the questions, I see people in the
+
+00:02:14.440 --> 00:02:17.959
+process of writing them. Was there anything else you wanted
+
+00:02:17.960 --> 00:02:21.159
+to add on top of your presentation? Maybe some supplements
+
+00:02:21.160 --> 00:02:29.039
+or whatnot? No, no. Nothing to add. Right. I mean, this year
+
+00:02:29.040 --> 00:02:31.519
+was more a bag of tricks, some new stuff that you've
+
+00:02:31.520 --> 00:02:36.159
+implemented in Hyperbole. And it's fun because I see the UI
+
+00:02:36.160 --> 00:02:40.159
+that you have for some of those modes. And earlier, you
+
+00:02:40.160 --> 00:02:42.399
+weren't able to watch those talks, but we were talking a lot
+
+00:02:42.400 --> 00:02:46.119
+about Transient and about what it allows you to do in terms of
+
+00:02:46.120 --> 00:02:51.039
+interactivity. I'm actually familiar with Transient. No,
+
+00:02:51.040 --> 00:02:56.279
+no, no. It's a mode written by Tarsius, so Jonas Bernoulli,
+
+00:02:56.280 --> 00:03:01.599
+the person behind Magit, and it's a very nice way to create
+
+00:03:01.600 --> 00:03:06.319
+menus for interactive setups. So, if you are interested in
+
+00:03:06.320 --> 00:03:10.039
+perhaps augmenting what you currently have with
+
+00:03:10.040 --> 00:03:12.959
+Hyperbole, it might be nice to look into Transient because I
+
+00:03:12.960 --> 00:03:16.359
+think this is heading towards eventually being merged into
+
+00:03:16.360 --> 00:03:18.879
+the core of Emacs. I mean, don't quote me on this. and I'm not
+
+00:03:18.880 --> 00:03:21.719
+sure how Tarsius feels about it, but because of the
+
+00:03:21.720 --> 00:03:25.879
+adoption, because Magit obviously uses transient, Org is
+
+00:03:25.880 --> 00:03:28.839
+trying to make a move towards adopting transient, it feels
+
+00:03:28.840 --> 00:03:32.479
+like Hyperbole would do well as well to adopt it because it's
+
+00:03:32.480 --> 00:03:36.799
+starting to become a grammar of general UI at this point.
+
+00:03:36.800 --> 00:03:40.839
+Yeah, now when you mention it, I remember because I'm a heavy
+
+00:03:40.840 --> 00:03:47.519
+user of Magic, of course. So I know Transient that way. I know
+
+00:03:47.520 --> 00:03:50.999
+also that people have been complaining about Hyperbole's
+
+00:03:51.000 --> 00:03:56.079
+menu system. You know that Hyperbole reach back to
+
+00:03:56.080 --> 00:04:02.639
+something like 1993, so it has some maybe things that are not
+
+00:04:02.640 --> 00:04:07.279
+modern in that sense. So we have it on the plate to maybe look
+
+00:04:07.280 --> 00:04:11.479
+into these things and how we can sort of make things modern,
+
+00:04:11.480 --> 00:04:16.279
+etc. Sure, but it's completely fine to take your time. You
+
+00:04:16.280 --> 00:04:19.359
+don't necessarily have to follow the latest fads when it
+
+00:04:19.360 --> 00:04:24.439
+comes to completion engines or interactive engines like
+
+00:04:24.440 --> 00:04:26.879
+Transient is. I'm not actually sure how you would call
+
+00:04:26.880 --> 00:04:31.519
+Transient. Is this a UI maker, an interaction engine? I
+
+00:04:31.520 --> 00:04:36.559
+don't know. I'll need to ask Tarsius at some point. All
+
+00:04:36.560 --> 00:04:41.439
+right. Okay. Okay so let's move on to the questions. We've
+
+00:04:41.440 --> 00:04:45.719
+got a couple of them and for the Q&A we'll have about five
+
+00:04:45.720 --> 00:04:49.199
+minutes and 30 seconds until we got to lunch. So starting
+
+00:04:49.200 --> 00:04:51.193
+with the first question.
+
+NOTE Q: How is the log buffer generated?
+
+00:04:51.194 --> 00:04:52.679
+How is the log buffer generated in
+
+00:04:52.680 --> 00:04:56.719
+your presentation? But it's a very quick answer to this.
+
+00:04:56.720 --> 00:04:59.839
+We recommend at EmacsConf that speakers use the
+
+00:04:59.840 --> 00:05:02.679
+interaction-log package, which allows you to have a
+
+00:05:02.680 --> 00:05:07.879
+slightly prettier lossage. Lossage being in Emacs how you
+
+00:05:07.880 --> 00:05:10.359
+call the comments that you've used. And so if you're
+
+00:05:10.360 --> 00:05:12.439
+interested in using this for your own presentation,
+
+00:05:12.440 --> 00:05:17.519
+interaction log, and you'll be able to find it fairly
+
+00:05:17.520 --> 00:05:18.999
+easily.
+
+00:05:19.000 --> 00:05:21.050
+Moving to the next question.
+
+NOTE Q: So, the "select a thing" C-c RET is similar to expand-region? How does it behave in codes (functions, class, ...)
+
+00:05:21.051 --> 00:05:23.651
+So the selector thing C-c RET
+
+00:05:23.652 --> 00:05:26.479
+is similar to expand-region. How does it behave in
+
+00:05:26.480 --> 00:05:31.999
+codes i.e functions or class?
+
+00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:45.319
+Well I think it behaves exactly the same. I mean in the
+
+00:05:45.320 --> 00:05:50.079
+In any sort of buffer, it might depend on what
+
+00:05:50.080 --> 00:05:54.679
+constitutes a word, et cetera, and a sentence in the mood.
+
+00:05:54.680 --> 00:06:00.799
+That's how I would say it. Right.
+
+00:06:00.800 --> 00:06:09.279
+I'm just, in that sense, I'm just a user of the function. I
+
+00:06:09.280 --> 00:06:12.359
+haven't implemented it. I haven't tested it more than that.
+
+00:06:12.360 --> 00:06:17.959
+We can do this as a demo that you start with maybe select a
+
+00:06:17.960 --> 00:06:21.999
+small thing and by hitting it over and over again, you select
+
+00:06:22.000 --> 00:06:26.399
+more and more. Yeah, but it's completely fine sometimes to
+
+00:06:26.400 --> 00:06:30.199
+merely be a user of something, you know. It's easy. It's a
+
+00:06:30.200 --> 00:06:33.079
+testament to how amazing Emacs is because everything is
+
+00:06:33.080 --> 00:06:35.759
+written in Lisp in the background, that as soon as you start
+
+00:06:35.760 --> 00:06:38.119
+becoming a maintainer of something, you kind of expect it to
+
+00:06:38.120 --> 00:06:40.639
+just be able to understand everything else. And whilst it's
+
+00:06:40.640 --> 00:06:43.919
+technically true, the limiter here is the amount of time
+
+00:06:43.920 --> 00:06:47.199
+that you can invest looking at the definitions,
+
+00:06:47.200 --> 00:06:50.359
+understanding what they do, and sadly we don't have the time
+
+00:06:50.360 --> 00:06:53.319
+to do all of this. And especially with Hyperbole, which is
+
+00:06:53.320 --> 00:06:55.959
+obviously interacting with major modes in something that
+
+00:06:55.960 --> 00:07:01.239
+is more involved than Org mode, for instance. We do have
+
+00:07:01.240 --> 00:07:05.879
+another question. So, I know you Hyperbole devs are active
+
+00:07:05.880 --> 00:07:08.919
+and interested in sharing and interoperating with other
+
+00:07:08.920 --> 00:07:09.971
+Emacs tools.
+
+NOTE Q: What is a recent tool that you find exciting to think about using in combination with Hyperbole, or would like to suggest using in combination with it?
+
+00:07:09.972 --> 00:07:11.839
+What is a recent tool that you find exciting to
+
+00:07:11.840 --> 00:07:14.799
+think about using in combination with Hyperbole or would
+
+00:07:14.800 --> 00:07:21.599
+like to suggest using in combination with it? Well, lately
+
+00:07:21.600 --> 00:07:24.519
+we've been focusing a lot of sort of trying to make Hyperbole
+
+00:07:24.520 --> 00:07:29.639
+work together with Org Mode and in in a good way so they can
+
+00:07:29.640 --> 00:07:36.119
+sort of, I mean... The idea with Hyperbole is not to be better
+
+00:07:36.120 --> 00:07:40.119
+than everything else, but more to be like the glue or spider
+
+00:07:40.120 --> 00:07:46.349
+that could integrate different modes in a good way together.
+
+00:07:46.350 --> 00:07:51.359
+So that being top of everything. And Org is a very
+
+00:07:51.360 --> 00:07:55.559
+popular mode, and there are a lot of sub-modes, or whatever
+
+00:07:55.560 --> 00:07:59.519
+you can call it, with Org for information management. And we
+
+00:07:59.520 --> 00:08:03.119
+would want Hyperbole to work together with Org in a good way,
+
+00:08:03.120 --> 00:08:09.119
+so Org users could benefit from Hyperbole as well. So we put
+
+00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:13.319
+in some effort in that. But I think there's a lot of way to go.
+
+00:08:13.320 --> 00:08:17.319
+There's much more that can be done there as well because
+
+00:08:17.320 --> 00:08:21.559
+different modes can easily compete in a bad way in the
+
+00:08:21.560 --> 00:08:26.519
+details. So it's a little bit of a tricky thing, especially
+
+00:08:26.520 --> 00:08:32.839
+like we have this and how probably we have this M-RET
+
+00:08:32.840 --> 00:08:36.319
+for the action production key and that's also used in many
+
+00:08:36.320 --> 00:08:40.639
+modes. So we would really, in the best of words, we would like
+
+00:08:40.640 --> 00:08:46.388
+Emacs to sort of come to some agreement on using of the
+
+00:08:46.389 --> 00:08:52.759
+M-RET in a good way for modes to sort of be able to work and
+
+00:08:52.760 --> 00:08:58.119
+live together. Yeah, I mean it's a tough thing to share the
+
+00:08:58.120 --> 00:09:01.759
+key bindings and the grammar of interaction between
+
+00:09:01.760 --> 00:09:04.719
+packages because you tell me M-RET, I don't want you
+
+00:09:04.720 --> 00:09:07.759
+to touch M-RET. For me it's just inserting a new line
+
+00:09:07.760 --> 00:09:10.639
+and not adding indentation at the start and everyone is
+
+00:09:10.640 --> 00:09:14.639
+going to have their own you know, feelings and thoughts about
+
+00:09:14.640 --> 00:09:17.959
+this, so it's really hard to impose any kind of system on
+
+00:09:17.960 --> 00:09:20.559
+this. But I'm glad to hear that you're looking into
+
+00:09:20.560 --> 00:09:23.239
+interaction with Org Mode because I remember the questions
+
+00:09:23.240 --> 00:09:26.359
+we were having on your first conference when people were
+
+00:09:26.360 --> 00:09:28.959
+asking, oh I'm so glad that you're talking about Hyperbole
+
+00:09:28.960 --> 00:09:31.719
+because the only way I'm interacting with it is when people
+
+00:09:31.720 --> 00:09:35.599
+chat about Org Mode and then whenever we had announcements
+
+00:09:35.600 --> 00:09:39.039
+about Hyperbole, be it on Reddit, be it on Hacker News,
+
+00:09:39.040 --> 00:09:41.999
+people would say, but don't we already have Org Mode? And we
+
+00:09:42.000 --> 00:09:44.879
+won't get into the topic again, because I think you've done a
+
+00:09:44.880 --> 00:09:47.279
+wonderful job of explaining the differences in previous
+
+00:09:47.280 --> 00:09:51.359
+years. And today, the conference, your talk at the
+
+00:09:51.360 --> 00:09:54.199
+conference also made it obvious that it's doing something
+
+00:09:54.200 --> 00:09:58.039
+that Org Mode is not able to do. But ultimately, being able to
+
+00:09:58.040 --> 00:10:00.254
+interface between the two is something great.
+
+NOTE On Ihor as the new maintainer for Org Mode
+
+00:10:00.255 --> 00:10:02.676
+And I kind of wanted to ask you as well the question,
+
+00:10:02.677 --> 00:10:04.719
+because you haven't
+
+00:10:04.720 --> 00:10:10.199
+seen the talk, but yesterday we had the announcement that
+
+00:10:10.200 --> 00:10:13.879
+Ihor Radchenko was becoming the new maintainer of Org Mode.
+
+00:10:13.880 --> 00:10:18.799
+So obviously, a new maintainer introduces idea of changes
+
+00:10:18.800 --> 00:10:23.719
+of, you know, philosophy and strategy and all this. Is this
+
+00:10:23.720 --> 00:10:28.199
+somehow on your end with Hyperbole inspiring you perhaps to
+
+00:10:28.200 --> 00:10:31.999
+also innovate in a sense to maybe try to change the way some
+
+00:10:32.000 --> 00:10:32.559
+things are done?
+
+00:10:32.560 --> 00:10:45.239
+Hmm, tricky question. I know, right? Yeah, no, well, I don't
+
+00:10:45.240 --> 00:10:46.159
+know.
+
+00:10:46.160 --> 00:10:52.799
+I don't know if it answers the question, but we have this
+
+00:10:52.800 --> 00:11:02.919
+idea that we meet and work from our point of view. And then we
+
+00:11:02.920 --> 00:11:07.679
+pick up maybe details from the outside world. So we're not
+
+00:11:07.680 --> 00:11:13.079
+heavily looking into what happens in the rest of the world
+
+00:11:13.080 --> 00:11:17.239
+when it comes to Emacs and personal information
+
+00:11:17.240 --> 00:11:21.159
+management, etc. But but we do pick up some ideas.
+
+00:11:21.160 --> 00:11:26.719
+Sometimes. But yeah, we mostly do hacking and then we want to
+
+00:11:26.720 --> 00:11:31.639
+we meet once a week and work on hyperbole and you know, so
+
+00:11:31.640 --> 00:11:35.599
+Yeah, that's already very cool. And the reason I'm
+
+00:11:35.600 --> 00:11:38.799
+mentioning this is not because I know that you are operating
+
+00:11:38.800 --> 00:11:42.079
+in a little bit of a silo when it comes to all of Hyperbole, but
+
+00:11:42.080 --> 00:11:45.399
+it's always nice for me personally to see a lot of energy
+
+00:11:45.400 --> 00:11:49.039
+being brought in by people. Whenever there's a new major
+
+00:11:49.040 --> 00:11:52.919
+version being published, be it Org Mode or be it Hyperbole,
+
+00:11:52.920 --> 00:11:55.519
+people are excited. There's a lot of energy in here because
+
+00:11:55.520 --> 00:11:58.039
+people are chatting about what you're doing. And that's why
+
+00:11:58.040 --> 00:12:02.399
+I find that people, a new maintenanceship for Org Mode
+
+00:12:02.400 --> 00:12:05.199
+actually benefits Hyperbole in a way because you get a lot of
+
+00:12:05.200 --> 00:12:07.559
+excitement, a lot of people thinking and bringing ideas to
+
+00:12:07.560 --> 00:12:12.279
+the table. And I think it's a prime time to actually try I'm
+
+00:12:12.280 --> 00:12:14.599
+using the word stealing, but in a very nice way, stealing in
+
+00:12:14.600 --> 00:12:17.519
+terms of floss, stealing some ideas and trying to see if you
+
+00:12:17.520 --> 00:12:21.199
+can run with them on your own end. And that's also why I was
+
+00:12:21.200 --> 00:12:24.479
+suggesting transient, because transient looks like it's
+
+00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:28.759
+on its path to reach core at some point. And it would be nice if
+
+00:12:28.760 --> 00:12:31.479
+you had the idea early on to integrate with it, because it
+
+00:12:31.480 --> 00:12:34.319
+might save you time later on and make your user happy,
+
+00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:37.319
+because they can find the same grammar between the Git,
+
+00:12:37.320 --> 00:12:41.639
+between org mode, and between hyperbole. All right. Is
+
+00:12:41.640 --> 00:12:46.439
+there... I don't think... Yeah, go on, please. Yeah, I just
+
+00:12:46.440 --> 00:12:49.879
+want to add on that, that, I mean, as an ultimate goal, in the
+
+00:12:49.880 --> 00:12:56.679
+far distance, we would want sort of Hyperbole or hyperbole
+
+00:12:56.680 --> 00:13:00.399
+type of functionality be part of the core Emacs. So in that
+
+00:13:00.400 --> 00:13:06.839
+sense, it's sort of totally sort of okay with us that
+
+00:13:06.840 --> 00:13:10.599
+different packages steal ideas and try to merge them into
+
+00:13:10.600 --> 00:13:16.359
+sort of the core system. Yeah. All right, I don't see any more
+
+00:13:16.360 --> 00:13:19.279
+questions, so I think we can move to close. Actually, we're
+
+00:13:19.280 --> 00:13:22.439
+actually three minutes over time, so I'm glad we managed to
+
+00:13:22.440 --> 00:13:24.759
+discuss a little more, but that's fine. Mats, do you have
+
+00:13:24.760 --> 00:13:31.519
+any last words? I'll try it out. Okay, well, then, you heard
+
+00:13:31.520 --> 00:13:35.479
+it, everyone. Just try it out. Try it out, and if you like it,
+
+00:13:35.480 --> 00:13:37.239
+you can join us on Sundays
+
+00:13:37.240 --> 00:13:41.959
+Right. And every Sunday, well, if you do not know what to do,
+
+00:13:41.960 --> 00:13:44.919
+you know, here's an idea for you. All right. Thank you so
+
+00:13:44.920 --> 00:13:47.079
+much, Mats, for coming again to Emacs Conf. And we look
+
+00:13:47.080 --> 00:13:50.319
+forward, perhaps, to seeing you next year. Yes. I'll be
+
+00:13:50.320 --> 00:13:55.119
+there. Hopefully, I can see some of the presentations live
+
+00:13:55.120 --> 00:13:58.399
+then. OK. That's OK. You've got the entire year to catch up on
+
+00:13:58.400 --> 00:14:01.159
+the ones you haven't seen this year and next year. But you'll
+
+00:14:01.160 --> 00:14:04.359
+have the time to catch another one live. All right. Yes.
+
+00:14:04.360 --> 00:14:09.519
+Great! For the folks watching, we will be taking a break, a
+
+00:14:09.520 --> 00:14:14.039
+one hour and one minute break. We'll be back at 1 p.m. EST and I
+
+00:14:14.040 --> 00:14:21.479
+think if my UTC conversion is working right, it should be 6
+
+00:14:21.480 --> 00:14:24.679
+p.m. UTC, so at least in one hour. All right, see you in a bit
+
+00:14:24.680 --> 00:14:30.159
+folks! Oh yes, and sorry, I've got a little elf speaking
+
+00:14:30.160 --> 00:14:32.999
+in my ears. In case you're interested in discussing further
+
+00:14:33.000 --> 00:14:35.999
+hyperbole with Mats, Mats is in the room right now and I see
+
+00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:39.919
+people have joined the BBB chat. So if you want to join and
+
+00:14:39.920 --> 00:14:42.439
+chat directly with Mats, I'm sure Mats would be more than
+
+00:14:42.440 --> 00:14:44.999
+happy to answer your questions. And obviously everything
+
+00:14:45.000 --> 00:14:48.239
+has been recorded and will be published later on. But for me,
+
+00:14:48.240 --> 00:14:54.119
+I will use the break to rest a little bit and I'll be back in the
+
+00:14:54.120 --> 00:14:59.039
+afternoon. All right, see you folks. Bye, take a break.
+
+00:14:59.040 --> 00:15:03.160
+Okay.
diff --git a/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-hyperdrive--new-in-hyperdriveel-quick-install-peer-graph-transclusion--joseph-turner--answers.vtt b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-hyperdrive--new-in-hyperdriveel-quick-install-peer-graph-transclusion--joseph-turner--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..7b377fed
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-hyperdrive--new-in-hyperdriveel-quick-install-peer-graph-transclusion--joseph-turner--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,630 @@
+WEBVTT captioned by sachac
+
+NOTE New version of hyperdrive.el
+
+00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.596
+One thing I wanted to mention was that
+
+00:00:02.597 --> 00:00:08.596
+as with last year, I just released a new version of
+
+00:00:08.597 --> 00:00:13.476
+hyperdrive.el and it depends on the latest release of
+
+00:00:13.477 --> 00:00:19.156
+transient.el and so if you are going to install this
+
+00:00:19.157 --> 00:00:25.156
+package, make sure that you restart your Emacs after you
+
+00:00:25.157 --> 00:00:29.796
+install it, if you aren't already up to date with transient,
+
+00:00:29.797 --> 00:00:35.316
+which was released yesterday. Otherwise, since it, this
+
+00:00:35.317 --> 00:00:40.876
+latest version of transient.el updates the transient
+
+00:00:40.877 --> 00:00:46.316
+prefix EIEIO class, and it won't work unless you restart
+
+00:00:46.317 --> 00:00:50.996
+Emacs. Okay, well, good to know. I think that's a small price
+
+00:00:50.997 --> 00:00:57.076
+to pay to be on a bleedingest of bleeding edges. All right, I
+
+00:00:57.077 --> 00:00:59.596
+see there's a question here. Let me see if I can read it. Yeah,
+
+00:00:59.597 --> 00:01:01.276
+sure. Do you want me to field it to you or do you want to read it?
+
+00:01:01.277 --> 00:01:04.104
+Oh, sure. Go ahead. I'd love to hear you read it. Sure.
+
+00:01:04.105 --> 00:01:06.686
+Thank you. So first question. Hi there.
+
+NOTE Q: Network effects are tricky - do you know of any public shares people can join to try this tool out properly?
+
+00:01:06.687 --> 00:01:07.787
+Thank you for the talk.
+
+00:01:07.788 --> 00:01:10.756
+I enjoyed watching it. I tried this tool last year and it
+
+00:01:10.757 --> 00:01:13.156
+seemed to work well, but I don't know anyone who actually
+
+00:01:13.157 --> 00:01:16.516
+uses it. Network effects are tricky. Do you know of any
+
+00:01:16.517 --> 00:01:19.636
+public shares people can join to try to try this tool out
+
+00:01:19.637 --> 00:01:24.396
+properly? Thank you. Network effects are indeed tricky.
+
+00:01:24.397 --> 00:01:29.916
+Yeah. That's kind of part of the purpose of the peer graph is
+
+00:01:29.917 --> 00:01:34.596
+to make it easier to discover peers in a way that's more, uh,
+
+00:01:34.597 --> 00:01:37.956
+more reliable and consistent than just somebody puts a
+
+00:01:37.957 --> 00:01:42.076
+public key on Reddit and then it's lost unless somebody
+
+00:01:42.077 --> 00:01:50.156
+finds it. Um, but the, the public keys that I know of are,
+
+00:01:50.157 --> 00:01:53.076
+there's the public key for the Ushin hyperdrive, which is
+
+00:01:53.077 --> 00:01:56.236
+basically just the same content that's on the website
+
+00:01:56.237 --> 00:02:00.156
+mirrored to a hyperdrive. Um, and then there are a few other
+
+00:02:00.157 --> 00:02:07.316
+ones. There's like, uh, hypha.coop has some WebZine
+
+00:02:07.317 --> 00:02:13.796
+content accessible via HyperDrive and also via IPFS. And
+
+00:02:13.797 --> 00:02:19.916
+then mauvesignweaver has a blog that's also available on
+
+00:02:19.917 --> 00:02:23.196
+Hyper. So that's blog.mauve.moe .
+
+00:02:23.197 --> 00:02:28.276
+But besides that, that's kind of the purpose of this
+
+00:02:28.277 --> 00:02:31.756
+peer graph thing is to make it easier to discover other
+
+00:02:31.757 --> 00:02:36.596
+peers. Yeah, to make it also very visual in a way, because,
+
+00:02:36.597 --> 00:02:40.436
+you know, I personally, it's funny because it reminded me of
+
+00:02:40.437 --> 00:02:45.156
+talks that I did in the past about the trust system for PGP
+
+00:02:45.157 --> 00:02:47.596
+keychains, because at the end of the day, you know, this
+
+00:02:47.597 --> 00:02:50.596
+trust system, whether you trust someone absolutely or
+
+00:02:50.597 --> 00:02:53.876
+relatively, the blocking system, it feels very related.
+
+00:02:53.877 --> 00:02:57.356
+Any kind of a chain of trust like this, feels very
+
+00:02:57.357 --> 00:03:00.436
+reminiscent, obviously, but it felt very nice that for you,
+
+00:03:00.437 --> 00:03:04.676
+you had a dynamic display of this web of trust. Whereas for
+
+00:03:04.677 --> 00:03:08.836
+me, I had to make fancy diagram in ticks, in latex, just to
+
+00:03:08.837 --> 00:03:14.956
+make sure that people understood what was actually going
+
+00:03:14.957 --> 00:03:21.596
+on. Yeah, one thing I want to point out is just the difference
+
+00:03:21.597 --> 00:03:25.556
+in utility for something like the PGP web of trust versus
+
+00:03:25.557 --> 00:03:29.956
+this kind of network of peers is, if I understand right, the
+
+00:03:29.957 --> 00:03:34.716
+main purpose of web of trust is to identify that a certain
+
+00:03:34.717 --> 00:03:42.516
+public key is actually created by the person that they claim
+
+00:03:42.517 --> 00:03:46.036
+to be. So you have a way of identifying that a key actually
+
+00:03:46.037 --> 00:03:49.996
+matches like a government identity. Whereas this kind of
+
+00:03:49.997 --> 00:03:53.356
+network of peers has nothing to do with authenticating a key
+
+00:03:53.357 --> 00:03:57.636
+or associating a key with an identity, like a government
+
+00:03:57.637 --> 00:04:03.396
+identity. The purpose is exclusively just to get more peers
+
+00:04:03.397 --> 00:04:07.276
+to be able to discover more peers who have things that are
+
+00:04:07.277 --> 00:04:07.676
+worth reading.
+
+00:04:07.677 --> 00:04:14.356
+Yeah, it's a different take on a concept, but even though the
+
+00:04:14.357 --> 00:04:18.836
+concept might be the same, I find there's a wealth of things
+
+00:04:18.837 --> 00:04:21.716
+that can be done thanks to this, because as you said, you
+
+00:04:21.717 --> 00:04:25.396
+trust someone to send you a file that is trustworthy. Well,
+
+00:04:25.397 --> 00:04:28.236
+with PGP, it's mostly about communication, but about file
+
+00:04:28.237 --> 00:04:33.356
+sharing, it just opens up completely new avenues. Yeah. Do
+
+00:04:33.357 --> 00:04:40.516
+you have anything else to add? And about that, I think one of
+
+00:04:40.517 --> 00:04:45.476
+the barriers to the PGP web of trust is that it required
+
+00:04:45.477 --> 00:04:48.916
+getting together to have key parties to meet people and
+
+00:04:48.917 --> 00:04:51.596
+verify identities. Whereas with this kind of thing,
+
+00:04:51.597 --> 00:04:54.076
+there's no need to do that because so long as your content is
+
+00:04:54.077 --> 00:04:57.876
+interesting, it doesn't matter that you're not who you
+
+00:04:57.877 --> 00:05:01.076
+claim to be or that you don't even claim to be anybody. Yeah, I
+
+00:05:01.077 --> 00:05:04.556
+mean, again, as you mentioned, it's not about identifying
+
+00:05:04.557 --> 00:05:08.196
+people, it's just about identifying value, in a way, in the
+
+00:05:08.197 --> 00:05:10.636
+content that people share. It has nothing to do with
+
+00:05:10.637 --> 00:05:13.916
+verifying their actual identity. But again, it's the same
+
+00:05:13.917 --> 00:05:16.596
+technology, it's the same understanding, but for
+
+00:05:16.597 --> 00:05:18.556
+different applications, which is lovely because
+
+00:05:18.557 --> 00:05:22.116
+programming is fractals all over. The same problems repeat
+
+00:05:22.117 --> 00:05:24.836
+themselves and the same solutions show up for widely
+
+00:05:24.837 --> 00:05:26.996
+different scenarios, which is always good. Yeah. Anything
+
+00:05:26.997 --> 00:05:32.676
+else? One more thing. Yeah. One more thing is that I wanted to
+
+00:05:32.677 --> 00:05:36.956
+give some kudos to, um, some of the other projects that
+
+00:05:36.957 --> 00:05:42.796
+inspired the pure graph work. One of them is Adam Porter's or
+
+00:05:42.797 --> 00:05:50.076
+graph view, um, which is a, um, a tool for visualizing
+
+00:05:50.077 --> 00:05:55.276
+different nodes in an org file and how they link to one
+
+00:05:55.277 --> 00:06:01.876
+another. Um, he did. the pioneering work to figure out how to
+
+00:06:01.877 --> 00:06:07.316
+render interactive graphs with GraphViz. And so we worked
+
+00:06:07.317 --> 00:06:12.476
+together on it and kind of hacked down the last parts that
+
+00:06:12.477 --> 00:06:16.796
+weren't working correctly. And so this is inspired a lot.
+
+00:06:16.797 --> 00:06:19.316
+The user interface is inspired a lot by Adam's work. And then
+
+00:06:19.317 --> 00:06:26.156
+also the idea of having people that you mark as blockers and
+
+00:06:26.157 --> 00:06:31.076
+block is inspired by another project called TrustNet by
+
+00:06:31.077 --> 00:06:37.196
+Alex Cobleigh. I can type in the link there. Alex, how do you
+
+00:06:37.197 --> 00:06:43.516
+spell it? Cobleigh? Yeah, I'll type it in here. Thank you. And I
+
+00:06:43.517 --> 00:06:50.596
+think the link is https://cblgh.org/trustnet. I think that is it.
+
+00:06:50.597 --> 00:06:57.836
+I'm not totally sure. But yeah. Okay, well, that's very good.
+
+00:06:57.837 --> 00:07:01.396
+and thank you for giving credits to the inspiration, because
+
+00:07:01.397 --> 00:07:05.556
+again, nothing is done without context, and it's always nice
+
+00:07:05.557 --> 00:07:08.516
+in the free software world to acknowledge people who have
+
+00:07:08.517 --> 00:07:11.676
+influenced us, because it's very nice when people start
+
+00:07:11.677 --> 00:07:14.556
+contributing, maintaining software, publishing stuff
+
+00:07:14.557 --> 00:07:17.916
+that they actually start collaborating with people who've
+
+00:07:17.917 --> 00:07:21.916
+inspired them, which is a nice way to climb over the shoulders
+
+00:07:21.917 --> 00:07:25.636
+of giants, which this community likes so much. All right,
+
+00:07:25.637 --> 00:07:28.676
+moving on to the next question. We are, we have about seven
+
+00:07:28.677 --> 00:07:31.063
+more minutes for questions, so we're still good.
+
+NOTE Q: blocklist or whitelist so I can make them containing useful information for only me while also being useful with in a public sense
+
+00:07:31.064 --> 00:07:33.956
+Second question, one use case for this sharing and building upon
+
+00:07:33.957 --> 00:07:37.996
+second brain, sorry, one use case for this is sharing and
+
+00:07:37.997 --> 00:07:41.436
+building upon second brains, i.e. Zettelkasten, that's
+
+00:07:41.437 --> 00:07:44.396
+denote or what I'm actually doing, but a blocker for me
+
+00:07:44.397 --> 00:07:46.916
+wanting to make one public is wanting to use a block list or
+
+00:07:46.917 --> 00:07:51.556
+whitelist so that I can make them... Cautioning?
+
+00:07:51.557 --> 00:07:56.156
+Quarantining? Containing. Yes, definitely containing.
+
+00:07:56.157 --> 00:07:59.756
+Why did I go for quarantine rather than containing? I guess
+
+00:07:59.757 --> 00:08:04.636
+my brain went to a dark place from the 2020s. So I can make
+
+00:08:04.637 --> 00:08:08.996
+containing useful information for only me while also being
+
+00:08:08.997 --> 00:08:16.156
+useful in a public sense. Yes, I think your question is about
+
+00:08:16.157 --> 00:08:22.276
+how to keep some of the content of your Zettelkasten private
+
+00:08:22.277 --> 00:08:29.956
+and only have certain parts of it be public. If your desire is
+
+00:08:29.957 --> 00:08:35.796
+to only share certain files in your Zettelkasten, then you
+
+00:08:35.797 --> 00:08:43.596
+can use the hyperdrive mirror command that we demonstrated
+
+00:08:43.597 --> 00:08:48.596
+in the Emacs 2023 talk. In short,
+
+00:08:48.597 --> 00:08:53.916
+It lets you specify either a regular expression that
+
+00:08:53.917 --> 00:08:58.036
+matches only some of the files that'll get uploaded from a
+
+00:08:58.037 --> 00:09:02.236
+directory of files on your machine. And only the files that
+
+00:09:02.237 --> 00:09:05.716
+match that regex will be put into the hyperdrive and shared
+
+00:09:05.717 --> 00:09:08.796
+with the world. But it doesn't have to be a regex. It could be a
+
+00:09:08.797 --> 00:09:13.276
+lambda. So it could match based on file size or modification
+
+00:09:13.277 --> 00:09:18.996
+time or really whatever you like. So I hope that answers your
+
+00:09:18.997 --> 00:09:23.956
+question. Great. And I personally, as someone who loves
+
+00:09:23.957 --> 00:09:27.876
+tinkering with my Elisp, I particularly like the ability to
+
+00:09:27.877 --> 00:09:31.156
+specify things with a lambda because it just opens up the
+
+00:09:31.157 --> 00:09:34.356
+ceiling of the possibilities with interactions between
+
+00:09:34.357 --> 00:09:37.316
+different parts of software. And, you know, as I have worked
+
+00:09:37.317 --> 00:09:39.956
+significantly in Org Roam, I could definitely see
+
+00:09:39.957 --> 00:09:44.116
+interactions with lambdas here to make sure that we can send
+
+00:09:44.117 --> 00:09:47.156
+and share files based on the filter list that is
+
+00:09:47.157 --> 00:09:51.036
+incrementally added to thanks to those lambdas. So thanks
+
+00:09:51.037 --> 00:09:55.116
+for this. One more thing I want to add about that is that the,
+
+00:09:55.117 --> 00:10:00.116
+that same question of being able to upload only certain
+
+00:10:00.117 --> 00:10:04.316
+files while leaving others to be private was something
+
+00:10:04.317 --> 00:10:07.556
+that was inspired by Karl Voit. I had an email thread with
+
+00:10:07.557 --> 00:10:16.036
+him in which he talked about how he uses his file tags project
+
+00:10:16.037 --> 00:10:21.676
+to organize his files. And he'll put a public tag on the files
+
+00:10:21.677 --> 00:10:26.476
+in his org database that he wants to have be published to his
+
+00:10:26.477 --> 00:10:29.916
+website. And so you could very easily just set a regular
+
+00:10:29.917 --> 00:10:33.636
+expression matches that public tag and then all of the other
+
+00:10:33.637 --> 00:10:39.676
+files would be not shared. Yeah, and, oh, sorry, I was, I
+
+00:10:39.677 --> 00:10:42.716
+misclicked, I was talking to production for a second. First
+
+00:10:42.717 --> 00:10:45.636
+time it happens today, so I think this is a testament to the
+
+00:10:45.637 --> 00:10:47.996
+level of tightness. But yeah, as you were saying, whatever
+
+00:10:47.997 --> 00:10:51.396
+heuristics you want is actually a good thing. I think people
+
+00:10:51.397 --> 00:10:54.636
+are a little antsy because they tend to brain dump into their
+
+00:10:54.637 --> 00:10:59.836
+Org Roam, Zettelkasten, Denote, and they
+
+00:10:59.837 --> 00:11:02.516
+really don't want some of their personal notes being out
+
+00:11:02.517 --> 00:11:05.596
+there. And well, if you are worried about this, I think
+
+00:11:05.597 --> 00:11:09.356
+learning some Elisp and implementing some Lambda function
+
+00:11:09.357 --> 00:11:13.116
+that allows you to filter with intention might be the best
+
+00:11:13.117 --> 00:11:17.636
+solution for you. So I hope we've covered the question as
+
+00:11:17.637 --> 00:11:21.436
+well as we could have. Next question is more about an idea
+
+00:11:21.437 --> 00:11:24.996
+about trying hyperdrive to distribute the Worg. Does that
+
+00:11:24.997 --> 00:11:28.596
+make sense to you? Yeah, I mean, you could distribute
+
+00:11:28.597 --> 00:11:32.636
+whatever you wanted. I think that'd be a great idea. Okay,
+
+00:11:32.637 --> 00:11:36.116
+great. Moving to the next question, and we have about three
+
+00:11:36.117 --> 00:11:38.316
+minutes, so I think we'll cover the last two questions and
+
+00:11:38.317 --> 00:11:41.023
+we'll move on to the next talk after that.
+
+NOTE Q: Could you comment on the "visualization" thing, (org visualization), and your experience with this type of content in buffers and the various possibilities (svg, etc.)?
+
+00:11:41.024 --> 00:11:43.164
+Could you comment on the visualization thing,
+
+00:11:43.165 --> 00:11:44.716
+Org visualization, and your
+
+00:11:44.717 --> 00:11:47.236
+experience with this type of content in buffers and the
+
+00:11:47.237 --> 00:11:52.916
+various possibilities, SVG, et cetera?
+
+00:11:52.917 --> 00:11:59.916
+Sure. So one thing that we worked on was I added a patch that
+
+00:11:59.917 --> 00:12:05.156
+was merged as part of Emacs 30, which fixes the way that image
+
+00:12:05.157 --> 00:12:14.196
+maps scale when images are scaled. So as an Emacs 30, if you
+
+00:12:14.197 --> 00:12:19.276
+zoom in on an image or shrink an image or rotate an image, now
+
+00:12:19.277 --> 00:12:24.276
+the image map, which is the overlay, so it's not actually an
+
+00:12:24.277 --> 00:12:26.716
+overlay, but it's, so to speak, it's an overlay that allows
+
+00:12:26.717 --> 00:12:30.116
+the images to be clickable based on, you know, where the
+
+00:12:30.117 --> 00:12:32.756
+actual visual display is. You can also click on it or hit help
+
+00:12:32.757 --> 00:12:37.356
+echo. And as of Emacs 30, now that scales with the image
+
+00:12:37.357 --> 00:12:37.796
+itself.
+
+00:12:37.797 --> 00:12:45.236
+The code to make that work on previous versions of Emacs, you
+
+00:12:45.237 --> 00:12:51.756
+can see the advice that we added in hyperdrive-sbb-view, that
+
+00:12:51.757 --> 00:12:55.956
+file in hyperdrive.el, if you're curious to see how you
+
+00:12:55.957 --> 00:13:01.196
+could polyfill that code, so to speak, to make it work on
+
+00:13:01.197 --> 00:13:06.076
+previous versions of Emacs before Emacs 30. But it works
+
+00:13:06.077 --> 00:13:11.076
+great. The way that this works is we generate a GraphViz
+
+00:13:11.077 --> 00:13:16.716
+string that will be sent to GraphViz to render an SVG and also
+
+00:13:16.717 --> 00:13:23.676
+render a CMAPX string. We pipe those back into Emacs and then
+
+00:13:23.677 --> 00:13:27.596
+we generate the image map from the CMAPX file and then we put
+
+00:13:27.597 --> 00:13:32.596
+that image map with the SVG, and we render it in a buffer.
+
+00:13:32.597 --> 00:13:37.076
+Works pretty well. You can check out the code to see exactly
+
+00:13:37.077 --> 00:13:41.876
+how it works. OK, great. Well, sadly, I think we are a little
+
+00:13:41.877 --> 00:13:44.996
+short on time to cover the last two questions. So Joseph, if
+
+00:13:44.997 --> 00:13:47.236
+you want to take a little bit of time maybe to answer the
+
+00:13:47.237 --> 00:13:51.196
+questions in the BBB, you can just do this, even though the
+
+00:13:51.197 --> 00:13:54.476
+stream will be moving to the next talk. But I'll use the
+
+00:13:54.477 --> 00:13:57.716
+opportunity to thank you both for the talk and for your
+
+00:13:57.717 --> 00:14:00.316
+answers, because they were very insightful. And thank you
+
+00:14:00.317 --> 00:14:03.636
+so much for taking the time to be with us today. Thank you,
+
+00:14:03.637 --> 00:14:05.876
+Leo. Enjoy the rest of the conference. Any last words in
+
+00:14:05.877 --> 00:14:10.356
+about 15 seconds? Thank you. I'm grateful for your taking
+
+00:14:10.357 --> 00:14:14.076
+all this time to make this conference possible. Well, you
+
+00:14:14.077 --> 00:14:16.916
+know, the conference would be nothing without the speakers
+
+00:14:16.917 --> 00:14:19.676
+coming and chatting, so you are the ones to thank. I mean, we
+
+00:14:19.677 --> 00:14:21.796
+like the thanking, obviously, but it's mostly you doing the
+
+00:14:21.797 --> 00:14:26.156
+work. All right. Thank you, Joseph. We'll see you later.
+
+00:14:26.157 --> 00:14:26.796
+Bye-bye.
diff --git a/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-julia--exploring-shared-philosophies-in-julia-and-emacs--gabriele-bozzola--answers.vtt b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-julia--exploring-shared-philosophies-in-julia-and-emacs--gabriele-bozzola--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..d37f80ef
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-julia--exploring-shared-philosophies-in-julia-and-emacs--gabriele-bozzola--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,346 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+NOTE Q: Do you have any suggestions for interactive debugging of Julia code in Emacs?
+
+00:00.089 --> 00:00.829
+... answer to that. I, I think the infrastructure for an
+
+00:01.509 --> 00:14.192
+ecosystem in Julia in general is as mature as other
+
+00:01.509 --> 00:14.192
+languages, and even debugger infiltrator themselves are
+
+00:01.509 --> 00:14.192
+not particularly well developed. And so I don't think
+
+00:15.853 --> 00:19.214
+there's much we can do about that right now. I think that it's
+
+00:21.570 --> 00:28.057
+unfortunate that most of the development for these type of
+
+00:21.570 --> 00:28.057
+tools is tightly linked to VS code. But even there, I don't
+
+00:29.218 --> 00:36.225
+think that there's much done in terms of interactive
+
+00:29.218 --> 00:36.225
+debugging. So I, yeah, I think this has to be worked on mostly
+
+00:36.866 --> 00:43.213
+on the Julia side first. And then probably Emacs can get
+
+00:43.820 --> 00:48.303
+something out of that. I know that there's development in
+
+00:49.183 --> 00:57.728
+debugger.jl itself for future releases to make it at least
+
+00:49.183 --> 00:57.728
+faster and more stable. But yeah, I think we're not there as
+
+00:58.809 --> 01:03.852
+Julia community itself. So let alone Emacs, integration
+
+01:04.192 --> 01:07.234
+with Emacs. The way I personally debug is mostly using,
+
+01:08.286 --> 01:15.508
+well, debugger and infiltrator with Julia REPL mode in
+
+NOTE Q: Can you call out something that Julia has that Emacs does not, and which could benefit Emacs?
+
+01:08.286 --> 01:15.508
+Emacs. The second question, can you call out something that
+
+01:18.009 --> 01:24.891
+Julia has that Emacs does not and which could benefit Emacs?
+
+01:26.852 --> 01:27.852
+Nothing stands out to me except the usual multi-threading
+
+01:28.848 --> 01:32.552
+and things like this. I don't necessarily see something
+
+01:33.432 --> 01:46.783
+that Julia has going on that DMX doesn't have, but I see some
+
+01:33.432 --> 01:46.783
+differences and approaches that I think are important,
+
+01:33.432 --> 01:46.783
+like the community. I think Julia is a very active and tight
+
+01:47.384 --> 01:50.266
+community. Julia uses Slack and is very, very active. I
+
+01:54.093 --> 01:57.736
+think he might say something like that, but it's maybe more
+
+01:54.093 --> 01:57.736
+on Reddit, IRC. JuliaCon is big and brings together lots and
+
+01:59.078 --> 02:02.381
+lots of people. And I think the sense of community is really
+
+02:03.221 --> 02:05.263
+powerful. It's very easy to essentially meet people that
+
+02:06.364 --> 02:16.834
+are interested in what we're building and interested in
+
+02:06.364 --> 02:16.834
+what we're doing and interested in Julian, our, you know,
+
+02:06.364 --> 02:16.834
+hacker spirit. I think Emacs is a very strong community.
+
+02:21.228 --> 02:26.151
+We're here on a Saturday talking about Emacs, which again
+
+02:21.228 --> 02:26.151
+proves that we are doing this. But I'd like to emphasize that
+
+02:27.192 --> 02:35.696
+the community is a really important aspect in Julia that I
+
+02:27.192 --> 02:35.696
+think we should double down on our side. The next question is
+
+NOTE Q: Is there a way to use lisp syntax with Julia, like hy for python or lisp flavoured erlang?
+
+02:36.797 --> 02:44.841
+about Lisp syntax with Julia, like what we can do in Python.
+
+02:48.038 --> 02:53.180
+I don't think that's, I don't, I am not aware of any package
+
+02:48.038 --> 02:53.180
+that does that. I would bet that there's something there. I
+
+02:56.722 --> 02:58.063
+think that that's possible. Indeed, there used to be a Lisp
+
+02:59.243 --> 03:07.027
+interpreter in Julia itself until the latest release. The
+
+03:07.647 --> 03:12.229
+syntax parsing was done with a Lisp, it was called TemtoList
+
+03:07.647 --> 03:12.229
+indeed. I think this got rid, get rid of this for our more
+
+03:16.124 --> 03:23.489
+Julia-based solution that is faster and with better code
+
+03:16.124 --> 03:23.489
+provenance. I think that it should be possible to use the
+
+03:25.430 --> 03:35.437
+metaprogramming features in Julia to change the structure
+
+03:25.430 --> 03:35.437
+of your syntax to be a Lispy syntax. I do want to emphasize
+
+03:36.238 --> 00:03:44.664
+that Julia is heavily inspired by Lisp, so I wouldn't be
+
+03:36.238 --> 03:44.664
+surprised if if something like this were possible.
+
+03:49.309 --> 00:03:51.167
+I have tried Julia Snail.
+
+NOTE Q: Have you tried the Julia Snail package for Emacs? It tries to be like SLY/SLIME for Common Lisp.
+
+00:03:51.168 --> 00:03:51.070
+So the next question is about Julia
+
+03:51.270 --> 03:52.712
+Snail. I found Julia REPL to be a little bit easier to set up
+
+03:53.312 --> 03:58.436
+and use. So I just settled on that. I should maybe revisit
+
+04:00.918 --> 04:03.480
+that. In particular, I use the Julia REPL with the vterm
+
+04:03.720 --> 04:11.406
+backend, which essentially makes a companion REPL to my
+
+04:03.720 --> 04:11.406
+scripts. And that works for me. I do think that the tooling
+
+04:15.638 --> 04:16.518
+uh, could be improved. I think there is definitely much room
+
+04:17.399 --> 04:22.040
+and I would like to see improvement in that area. Um, and, uh,
+
+NOTE Q: Is there a data inspector for a Julia REPL available that you can use in Emacs?
+
+04:22.940 --> 04:28.322
+so we have data inspector for Julia REPL.
+
+04:32.043 --> 04:34.784
+I don't think so. I don't, is there any data inspector
+
+04:34.804 --> 04:39.826
+in for, for the Julia REPL that we can use in Emacs?
+
+04:43.223 --> 00:04:43.489
+I'm not sure. I don't think so.
+
+00:04:44.840 --> 00:04:47.839
+I think the way I look at data is
+
+00:04:47.840 --> 00:04:50.519
+essentially ignoring Emacs when encoded. It's just using the
+
+00:04:50.520 --> 00:04:54.759
+REPL. And again, with Julia REPL. So I'm not aware of any
+
+00:04:54.760 --> 00:04:57.720
+specialized tool And again, maybe this is, again, a good
+
+04:58.652 --> 05:05.595
+moment to emphasize that tooling, the Julia community
+
+04:58.652 --> 05:05.595
+clusters around VS Code. And there is tools like the, pretty
+
+05:06.315 --> 05:11.578
+much all the work with VS Code, unfortunately. And while
+
+05:12.578 --> 05:21.242
+there's a very, very decent Julia mode and Julia repo mode
+
+05:12.578 --> 05:21.242
+and Julia snail, there's definitely, definitely room for
+
+05:12.578 --> 05:21.242
+improvement.
+
+NOTE Q: Have you tried literate programming Julia (using Org babel or some other means) in Emacs?
+
+05:24.443 --> 05:28.145
+Next, we have a question about literate programming in
+
+05:24.443 --> 05:28.145
+Julia. I haven't done much of it with Org Babel or
+
+05:29.505 --> 05:32.906
+anything else. I haven't done much of it. I can say that Julia
+
+05:35.827 --> 05:46.070
+has developed a new iteration of notebooks called Pluto.
+
+05:46.090 --> 05:48.471
+Here I'm thinking about Jupyter notebooks. The Pluto
+
+05:51.021 --> 06:02.988
+notebooks for Julia try to remove a bunch of the pain points
+
+05:51.021 --> 06:02.988
+that Jupyter notebooks have, meaning you cannot easily
+
+05:51.021 --> 06:02.988
+commit them to Git or things like this.
+
+06:06.450 --> 06:09.152
+I haven't used them, but I know some people are very fond of
+
+06:06.450 --> 06:09.152
+them. And so I think that that's what some of the Julia
+
+06:09.872 --> 06:15.195
+community would use for notebooks. And I think they can
+
+06:15.315 --> 06:19.298
+interact with Emacs with no problem. And that would be a form
+
+06:20.974 --> 06:23.035
+of later programming. But if you can do it in Python, you can
+
+06:24.015 --> 06:27.696
+do it in Julia. I think there is no reason. And actually, you
+
+06:30.617 --> 06:38.719
+can take advantage of all this just-in-time or
+
+06:30.617 --> 06:38.719
+just-out-of-time compilation by keeping the same
+
+06:30.617 --> 06:38.719
+session. So I think it will be definitely a nice use case. So
+
+06:44.681 --> 06:47.222
+these are the questions that I see here. I'm going to scroll
+
+06:48.561 --> 06:54.486
+through the comments and see if there's something that I
+
+06:48.561 --> 06:54.486
+should say about comments. I'm excited people want to learn
+
+06:56.228 --> 06:57.669
+Julia. I have to say that if I want to do GPU computing
+
+06:58.990 --> 07:06.757
+nowadays, I find it much easier to do it with Julia than with
+
+06:58.990 --> 07:06.757
+CUDA. So I encourage people to look into that. And I do,
+
+07:11.758 --> 07:26.807
+again, I would like to share what makes me excited about
+
+07:11.758 --> 07:26.807
+Emacs, about this being open, being collaborative, being
+
+07:11.758 --> 07:26.807
+respectable with documentation is something that I find in
+
+07:11.758 --> 07:26.807
+Julia. So I think people that are excited about the same
+
+07:27.367 --> 07:35.192
+features will find a little bit of joy in working with Julia.
+
+07:38.214 --> 07:39.675
+I think I addressed what I have here. I don't know if there's
+
+07:40.189 --> 07:43.532
+anything else that I should add.
+
+07:51.718 --> 07:54.000
+It took me a minute to unmute there.
+
+00:07:54.040 --> 00:07:58.399
+No, I think that was awesome. And thank you so much.
+
+00:07:58.400 --> 00:08:00.399
+I guess I thought it would
+
+00:08:00.400 --> 00:08:06.559
+collapse that shared area on BBB, my mistake, on the stream,
+
+00:08:06.560 --> 00:08:12.399
+or I would have left it open. But in any case, no, I thought
+
+00:08:12.400 --> 00:08:15.079
+that was great. You did a great job of responding to all the
+
+00:08:15.080 --> 00:08:17.879
+questions and comments. And thank you again so much for your
+
+00:08:17.880 --> 00:08:20.920
+talk and getting us all excited to learn Julia. Thank you.
+
+08:24.094 --> 08:25.275
+Enjoy EmacsConf. And again, thanks so much for attending,
+
+08:25.335 --> 08:30.220
+for being EmacsConf. Thank you.
diff --git a/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-learning--survival-of-the-skillest-thriving-in-the-learning-jungle--bala-ramadurai--answers.vtt b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-learning--survival-of-the-skillest-thriving-in-the-learning-jungle--bala-ramadurai--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..009f023d
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-learning--survival-of-the-skillest-thriving-in-the-learning-jungle--bala-ramadurai--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,961 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.159
+I'm doing well. Thank you so much. I was supposed to chat and
+
+00:00:05.160 --> 00:00:08.799
+write down stuff in the etherpad, but you guys accommodated
+
+00:00:08.800 --> 00:00:12.439
+me very nicely, swiftly, efficiently, in spite of my quirky
+
+00:00:12.440 --> 00:00:16.599
+last minute requests. Yeah, but that's okay because, well,
+
+00:00:16.600 --> 00:00:19.479
+it's funny that you talk about accommodating you and doing
+
+00:00:19.480 --> 00:00:22.159
+all the things we need to do because, frankly, your talk is
+
+00:00:22.160 --> 00:00:24.199
+about getting things done and you've mentioned the book,
+
+00:00:24.200 --> 00:00:27.439
+obviously, but the philosophy of getting things done is
+
+00:00:27.440 --> 00:00:30.759
+ultimately what we've been applying with Emacs Conf so that
+
+00:00:30.760 --> 00:00:33.759
+when we have curveballs thrown at us, like you've done right
+
+00:00:33.760 --> 00:00:36.399
+now, we can accommodate them because we made sure that
+
+00:00:36.400 --> 00:00:41.039
+everything else was done. So we'll move to questions and I
+
+00:00:41.040 --> 00:00:45.039
+invite viewers to go to the pad, to the etherpad that is on IRC
+
+00:00:45.040 --> 00:00:48.199
+and also on the talk page and put your questions over there.
+
+00:00:48.200 --> 00:00:51.559
+But first I wanted to make sure, Bala, that if you had
+
+00:00:51.560 --> 00:00:54.639
+anything that you could not include in your presentation,
+
+00:00:54.640 --> 00:01:00.159
+just to give you some time to mention them now if you want. I
+
+00:01:00.160 --> 00:01:09.119
+think I mentioned most of what I wanted to convey. I wanted to
+
+00:01:09.120 --> 00:01:12.479
+keep it general with whichever format people are
+
+00:01:12.480 --> 00:01:15.719
+comfortable with, whether it's Org Mode, whether it's
+
+00:01:15.720 --> 00:01:21.599
+plain text, whether it is docx. In fact, I was speaking to one
+
+00:01:21.600 --> 00:01:25.799
+of my friends and he said, Hey, I use Google Sheets to note
+
+00:01:25.800 --> 00:01:28.679
+down everything, all the tasks that are coming. I said, suit
+
+00:01:28.680 --> 00:01:33.439
+yourself, whatever it is. So, in that way, this methodology
+
+00:01:33.440 --> 00:01:37.359
+or whatever, the way which we follow is quite flexible. The
+
+00:01:37.360 --> 00:01:41.679
+system is quite flexible in whichever way you want to use it.
+
+00:01:41.680 --> 00:01:46.919
+go ahead and use it. But start emptying your teacup. That
+
+00:01:46.920 --> 00:01:50.599
+will be my first and foremost. I have nothing else to add per
+
+00:01:50.600 --> 00:01:54.879
+se. Okay, cool. So we'll start with the first question and
+
+00:01:54.880 --> 00:01:58.279
+I'll be reading the questions to you. And just so we know, we
+
+00:01:58.280 --> 00:02:01.079
+have about eight minutes of Q&A until we need to move to the
+
+00:02:01.080 --> 00:02:03.553
+next talk. All right, so first question.
+
+NOTE Q: What is TRIZ?
+
+00:02:03.554 --> 00:02:06.399
+What is TRIZ? Okay,
+
+00:02:06.400 --> 00:02:11.679
+this is a Russian methodology. It's pardon my, I mean poor
+
+00:02:11.680 --> 00:02:16.679
+Russian, but it translates to theory of inventive problem
+
+00:02:16.680 --> 00:02:21.919
+solving. So, that's what it translates to. What it is, is it
+
+00:02:21.920 --> 00:02:26.119
+is said that all the inventions problem solved so far in
+
+00:02:26.120 --> 00:02:30.239
+humanity. If you can categorize them, they fall into
+
+00:02:30.240 --> 00:02:36.159
+exactly 40 principles. That's one of the core tenets in
+
+00:02:36.160 --> 00:02:40.959
+theory of inventive problem solving. Also, that creative
+
+00:02:40.960 --> 00:02:46.319
+people have a process they follow. and in defining a problem
+
+00:02:46.320 --> 00:02:49.839
+and solving a problem. So, this is what I was trained in a
+
+00:02:49.840 --> 00:02:55.359
+company that I work for and I started using it and started
+
+00:02:55.360 --> 00:02:59.199
+applying it. So, creative process starts with defining a
+
+00:02:59.200 --> 00:03:02.799
+problem and solving a problem in a very systematic manner
+
+00:03:02.800 --> 00:03:06.239
+and you can be as creative as the creatives that we know about
+
+00:03:06.240 --> 00:03:11.759
+as the methodology talks about. So, that is what TRIZ is,
+
+00:03:11.760 --> 00:03:15.639
+Theory of Inventive Problem Solving. There is lot of open
+
+00:03:15.640 --> 00:03:19.799
+source literature like we have in Emacs. It is the same way
+
+00:03:19.800 --> 00:03:24.159
+with TRIZ, people share very generous and you can learn
+
+00:03:24.160 --> 00:03:29.879
+about it. what it can be useful for what in the core of our talk
+
+00:03:29.880 --> 00:03:34.679
+also is that many times we face conflicts, that is, I don't
+
+00:03:34.680 --> 00:03:38.719
+want to spend a lot of time, you know, figuring out a system
+
+00:03:38.720 --> 00:03:42.919
+like this. However, I want everything in one place, you
+
+00:03:42.920 --> 00:03:46.839
+know, how can that happen? So start little by little is one
+
+00:03:46.840 --> 00:03:50.399
+suggestion I have. Don't And this is also a contradiction we
+
+00:03:50.400 --> 00:03:55.199
+have, right? So, we need to spend a lot of time to set up things
+
+00:03:55.200 --> 00:03:58.559
+before we can start organizing our life. But there's not a
+
+00:03:58.560 --> 00:04:01.599
+lot of time because we haven't organized our life. So, we
+
+00:04:01.600 --> 00:04:04.839
+don't have that's a conundrum or a contradiction. That's
+
+00:04:04.840 --> 00:04:09.479
+what TRIZ methodology is about to identify that this is a
+
+00:04:09.480 --> 00:04:15.039
+contradiction and we have to resolve it not compromise. So,
+
+00:04:15.040 --> 00:04:18.319
+resolve it in a manner that gives you enough time to set up a
+
+00:04:18.320 --> 00:04:22.439
+system and enough time, free time to enjoy your life or focus
+
+00:04:22.440 --> 00:04:26.559
+on a project and be present when you're working with
+
+00:04:26.560 --> 00:04:31.439
+something. So, that's what the crux of the methodology is.
+
+00:04:31.440 --> 00:04:34.359
+Okay, splendid answer. Thank you. Moving on to the next one.
+
+NOTE Q: Do you agree that learning similar but different things again and again is ultimately wasted bandwidth? What can we do as technologists to push back against this?
+
+00:04:34.360 --> 00:04:37.199
+Thank you for this talk. Very interesting. One of the things
+
+00:04:37.200 --> 00:04:40.199
+that frustrates me about modern web development is the rate
+
+00:04:40.200 --> 00:04:43.279
+of churn when it comes to useful knowledge. I think Emacs can
+
+00:04:43.280 --> 00:04:45.679
+help to counteract against this by building lasting tools
+
+00:04:45.680 --> 00:04:48.279
+where mastery can be built. Do you agree that learning
+
+00:04:48.280 --> 00:04:50.799
+similar but different things again and again is ultimately
+
+00:04:50.800 --> 00:04:54.079
+wasted bandwidth? What can we do as technologists to push
+
+00:04:54.080 --> 00:05:00.159
+back against this? Yeah, this is an interesting one
+
+00:05:00.160 --> 00:05:04.879
+because, I mean, I'm like everyone else where a new package
+
+00:05:04.880 --> 00:05:09.439
+shows up. I mentioned that in my talk also, the first
+
+00:05:09.440 --> 00:05:12.879
+introduction. Sajajo's newsletter is amazing. It has all
+
+00:05:12.880 --> 00:05:15.599
+these new things coming up and new developments coming up.
+
+00:05:15.600 --> 00:05:18.879
+Same thing with web dev, I guess, you have new things coming
+
+00:05:18.880 --> 00:05:25.519
+up. So you want to learn that new thing. However, you need to
+
+00:05:25.520 --> 00:05:31.559
+also be aware that there are so many other projects and
+
+00:05:31.560 --> 00:05:37.879
+hobbies or life that's also waiting for you. And it's not a
+
+00:05:37.880 --> 00:05:42.799
+balancing act, but if you if you pay attention and be present
+
+00:05:42.800 --> 00:05:46.199
+and give whatever is in front of you, it's full attention.
+
+00:05:46.200 --> 00:05:50.959
+Then look back and connect. That's an interesting way,
+
+00:05:50.960 --> 00:05:55.759
+because hindsight is 20 20. Use it to your advantage. So my I
+
+00:05:55.760 --> 00:05:59.679
+don't know, I don't want to push back against this because
+
+00:05:59.680 --> 00:06:02.879
+some of it is just amazing because it thinks that you think is
+
+00:06:02.880 --> 00:06:05.759
+a waste of time and it's a distraction right now. could
+
+00:06:05.760 --> 00:06:09.719
+potentially be. I'm not saying it will be because there are
+
+00:06:09.720 --> 00:06:13.359
+things that are truly a waste of time that could truly
+
+00:06:13.360 --> 00:06:17.250
+potentially tie back to something and be really helpful.
+
+NOTE org-mode export, CSS, WeasyPrint
+
+00:06:17.251 --> 00:06:22.039
+I can give you an example from our Emacs part of my life. I was
+
+00:06:22.040 --> 00:06:27.839
+experimenting with CSS and Cascade style sheets and how I
+
+00:06:27.840 --> 00:06:34.599
+can customize it to use it in org mode export. For me at the
+
+00:06:34.600 --> 00:06:38.639
+time, it seemed like a waste of time. I was spending so much
+
+00:06:38.640 --> 00:06:42.599
+time. Then I parked it. I didn't do much about it later. But
+
+00:06:42.600 --> 00:06:47.319
+then one of my students said, "Your slides are too bulky for me
+
+00:06:47.320 --> 00:06:49.588
+to scroll through to get to exactly what I am looking for."
+
+00:06:49.589 --> 00:06:55.319
+I was using the reveal HTML and I used to pass on the link
+
+00:06:55.320 --> 00:07:00.999
+before. And the student sort of hinted at a handout. And now
+
+00:07:01.000 --> 00:07:05.319
+that's not easy with the RevealJS framework. It's rather
+
+00:07:05.320 --> 00:07:08.439
+tricky. At least I couldn't figure it out. but then it
+
+00:07:08.440 --> 00:07:10.879
+occurred to me that, hey, wait a second i've already looked at
+
+00:07:10.880 --> 00:07:15.799
+this CSS thing and maybe that'll help. It did help. I can
+
+00:07:15.800 --> 00:07:18.995
+drop in the name of the tool that I use now.
+
+00:07:18.996 --> 00:07:23.016
+It's called WeasyPrint uh let me use the uh
+
+00:07:23.017 --> 00:07:24.877
+i don't know if some...
+
+00:07:24.878 --> 00:07:32.100
+If you can look it up, W-E-A-S-Y print.
+
+00:07:32.101 --> 00:07:32.519
+That's what it's called. And that's
+
+00:07:32.520 --> 00:07:36.399
+mighty useful. That's really, really useful. You can
+
+00:07:36.400 --> 00:07:40.919
+customize it. You can change everything. I think I can even,
+
+00:07:40.920 --> 00:07:44.519
+I'll probably even share the code later on. It's really
+
+00:07:44.520 --> 00:07:48.959
+useful and I've been able to, so what seemed like a waste of
+
+00:07:48.960 --> 00:07:52.039
+time is actually something that became useful later on. But
+
+00:07:52.040 --> 00:07:55.519
+there are several other things I have truly wasted and it's
+
+00:07:55.520 --> 00:07:58.439
+not been useful because I couldn't connect the dots. So,
+
+00:07:58.440 --> 00:08:06.239
+perhaps the, let's say, wasteful of time so that you look at
+
+00:08:06.240 --> 00:08:09.159
+something and see how to connect back like the Zettelkasten
+
+00:08:09.160 --> 00:08:12.839
+that everybody talks about. I do not use it, but I like the
+
+00:08:12.840 --> 00:08:15.399
+idea that you look at it keeping in mind that you could
+
+00:08:15.400 --> 00:08:19.359
+probably connect to something later on. Perhaps, just try
+
+00:08:19.360 --> 00:08:24.519
+it out. OK, great, Bala. Sadly, we are a little short on time
+
+00:08:24.520 --> 00:08:27.159
+to answer all the questions that we have. I see three
+
+00:08:27.160 --> 00:08:31.039
+questions currently that can still be answered, and I don't
+
+00:08:31.040 --> 00:08:33.919
+think any of them would be answerable within just one
+
+00:08:33.920 --> 00:08:37.559
+minute. So what I suggest we do, Bala, feel free. Do you have
+
+00:08:37.560 --> 00:08:40.919
+access to the pad on your end? Yes, I do. I do. I have it here.
+
+00:08:40.920 --> 00:08:43.707
+Okay, cool. I'm putting the link on BBB just in case you need
+
+00:08:43.708 --> 00:08:44.919
+to review it.
+
+00:08:44.920 --> 00:08:47.039
+We're going to leave the room open. By the way,
+
+00:08:47.040 --> 00:08:49.399
+if anyone in the crowd wants to join so that they can ask the
+
+00:08:49.400 --> 00:08:51.919
+question directly with their voice to Bala, feel free to do
+
+00:08:51.920 --> 00:08:56.119
+so. The links are on the website. But Bala, if no one shows up,
+
+00:08:56.120 --> 00:08:58.559
+if you could just answer the three questions that we haven't
+
+00:08:58.560 --> 00:09:01.239
+covered yet, actually. Well, three questions because
+
+00:09:01.240 --> 00:09:04.359
+Sacha just put the link right there. That'd be lovely. And
+
+00:09:04.360 --> 00:09:06.080
+we'll make sure that the entire Q&A
+
+00:09:06.120 --> 00:09:07.839
+finds its place into the
+
+00:09:07.840 --> 00:09:10.719
+website afterwards. How does that sound for you? Yeah,
+
+00:09:10.720 --> 00:09:14.559
+sounds great. Thank you so much. I'll do make sure that I will
+
+00:09:14.560 --> 00:09:17.159
+have the answers there, but I'm going to wait here for some
+
+00:09:17.160 --> 00:09:20.559
+time so that somebody can join. Okay, sure. Any last word in
+
+00:09:20.560 --> 00:09:26.799
+10 seconds for the public? Well, empty your teacup and enjoy
+
+00:09:26.800 --> 00:09:27.199
+your life.
+
+00:09:27.200 --> 00:09:29.879
+Splendid. Thank you so much, Bala, for coming
+
+00:09:29.880 --> 00:09:32.359
+again to EmacsConf this year, and hopefully we'll be seeing
+
+00:09:32.360 --> 00:09:36.439
+you next year with further talks to discuss. Yeah, thank you
+
+00:09:36.440 --> 00:09:39.559
+so much. All right, and right now we'll be moving to the next
+
+00:09:39.560 --> 00:09:42.039
+talk of the day in about five seconds. Thank you again, Bala,
+
+00:09:42.040 --> 00:09:46.799
+and see you later. Bye.
+
+00:09:46.800 --> 00:09:49.399
+All right, we are a fair. So, Bala, I'll need to move to make
+
+00:09:49.400 --> 00:09:51.759
+sure that everything is working for the next talk. So, do as
+
+00:09:51.760 --> 00:09:55.320
+we said, and everything will be fine. Okay.
+
+00:09:55.333 --> 00:09:58.879
+Okay, bye-bye, Bala. Bye. Bye, Leo.
+
+00:09:58.880 --> 00:10:15.119
+Okay.
+
+00:10:15.120 --> 00:10:21.679
+Hello everyone, do you want me to answer a question? I'll be
+
+00:10:21.680 --> 00:10:23.399
+happy to answer that. You want to discuss something? You
+
+00:10:23.400 --> 00:10:27.759
+want to share something? I'm here for that. Please let me
+
+00:10:27.760 --> 00:11:06.479
+know.
+
+00:11:06.480 --> 00:11:10.599
+I'll hang around for another 5 to 10 minutes. Please let me
+
+00:11:10.600 --> 00:11:14.439
+know if you have any questions or if you're the ones who ask
+
+00:11:14.440 --> 00:11:36.739
+those questions also, please let me know.
+
+00:11:36.740 --> 00:11:38.560
+Are you there?
+
+00:11:38.625 --> 00:11:44.359
+Hi, yes. Some tips I've found for getting
+
+00:11:44.360 --> 00:11:50.399
+things done with an image for this stuff is like for
+
+00:11:50.400 --> 00:11:53.919
+separations you have like your Zettelkasten, you're
+
+00:11:53.920 --> 00:11:56.799
+getting things done, and then beyond that you have like
+
+00:11:56.800 --> 00:12:00.559
+dailies and global.
+
+00:12:00.560 --> 00:12:06.439
+Daily Zettelkasten would be journaling. Okay, okay. And
+
+00:12:06.440 --> 00:12:10.479
+then, like, global or daily getting things done, I
+
+00:12:10.480 --> 00:12:11.919
+generally like doing it in a week.
+
+00:12:11.920 --> 00:12:13.800
+And then splitting the,
+
+00:12:13.833 --> 00:12:16.120
+like, core tasks, secondary tasks,
+
+00:12:16.121 --> 00:12:17.220
+unplanned tasks,
+
+00:12:17.221 --> 00:12:22.079
+because those are good categories.
+
+00:12:22.080 --> 00:12:26.439
+I like what you're doing.
+
+00:12:26.440 --> 00:12:32.199
+Sorry? Do you do things like that at all?
+
+00:12:32.200 --> 00:12:38.279
+Or are there separations like with Zettelkasten
+
+00:12:38.280 --> 00:12:45.839
+versus the Getting Things Done?
+
+00:12:45.840 --> 00:12:52.279
+That's very interesting, yes. Daily log and weekly log,
+
+00:12:52.280 --> 00:12:56.800
+that's really helpful. I've also been trying to do that but
+
+00:12:56.821 --> 00:13:02.279
+not being able to successfully do a daily log plus a weekly
+
+00:13:02.280 --> 00:13:06.879
+log. So I gave up on the daily log because it seemed to be like a
+
+00:13:06.880 --> 00:13:12.479
+lot of overhead for me, so I just switch to a weekly review
+
+00:13:12.480 --> 00:13:16.759
+where I would log what's going on and how it is. But it's also
+
+00:13:16.760 --> 00:13:19.759
+interesting to see how it connects back to something that
+
+00:13:19.760 --> 00:13:22.639
+we've already worked on, or we've already learned
+
+00:13:22.640 --> 00:13:26.039
+somewhere, which is essentially using the ZIP and custom
+
+00:13:26.040 --> 00:13:30.239
+method. I probably want to try that a bit later on also.
+
+00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:34.199
+That's a great suggestion, nice idea. Oh, so some of the
+
+00:13:34.200 --> 00:13:38.039
+reason for the separation would be with the daily log, like,
+
+00:13:38.040 --> 00:13:42.839
+for instance, the title for the journal would be, Audinet
+
+00:13:42.840 --> 00:13:47.359
+would be the day, and it starts blank. And then, so if you have
+
+00:13:47.360 --> 00:13:50.159
+a straight thought, if you know it can go straight to your
+
+00:13:50.160 --> 00:13:53.479
+Zettelkasten, it goes into your Zettelkasten. If you don't
+
+00:13:53.480 --> 00:13:57.679
+know where it goes, it goes into your journal. And then same
+
+00:13:57.680 --> 00:14:01.839
+thing for like the week, is like your weeks always start
+
+00:14:01.840 --> 00:14:04.879
+emptying, so like if you have your core tasks, like if it
+
+00:14:04.880 --> 00:14:08.119
+spells beyond three, it's probably not a core task. So it
+
+00:14:08.120 --> 00:14:11.359
+gives you the idea of like, did I actually do what I wanted to
+
+00:14:11.360 --> 00:14:16.999
+yesterday, rather than getting 20 things done that I don't
+
+00:14:17.000 --> 00:14:22.159
+really care about that much. Yes. True, true, true. Very
+
+00:14:22.160 --> 00:14:23.759
+true. Yeah.
+
+00:14:23.760 --> 00:14:30.959
+Nice, nice talk. Thank you so much for sharing that. I've
+
+00:14:30.960 --> 00:14:35.279
+been a, let's say a start and many times I've started on
+
+00:14:35.280 --> 00:14:40.799
+Zettelkasten, you know, with little notes. They have these
+
+00:14:40.800 --> 00:14:43.399
+fleeting notes and permanent notes. I've tried many of
+
+00:14:43.400 --> 00:14:48.199
+those, but somehow it's not sticky for me. I've not been
+
+00:14:48.200 --> 00:14:51.399
+able to get rid of that.
+
+00:14:51.400 --> 00:14:55.919
+Yeah, I've got multiple attempts of using these systems,
+
+00:14:55.920 --> 00:15:01.999
+becoming too big or complex, like I don't know where to put a
+
+00:15:02.000 --> 00:15:06.679
+new piece of information, so then I throw the whole system
+
+00:15:06.680 --> 00:15:14.639
+away. So, this is my favorite iteration that I've done so
+
+00:15:14.640 --> 00:15:23.399
+far. I'm sure it'll change with time. Okay, okay, okay, I
+
+00:15:23.400 --> 00:15:25.079
+see. Yeah, I...
+
+NOTE Daily log
+
+00:15:25.080 --> 00:15:31.759
+I like the way the daily log works, that it has an embedded,
+
+00:15:31.760 --> 00:15:36.799
+you know, you just have a name stamp and then you embed
+
+00:15:36.800 --> 00:15:40.479
+something from another project. And when you go to the
+
+00:15:40.480 --> 00:15:44.559
+project page, the same thing shows up there in the log also. I
+
+00:15:44.560 --> 00:15:48.679
+wanted to take that feature and have that in my optimal
+
+00:15:48.680 --> 00:15:53.399
+setup. I'm not well versed enough to get that set up because I
+
+00:15:53.400 --> 00:15:56.799
+like that with that. Anything I enter in the daily log should
+
+00:15:56.800 --> 00:16:00.359
+show up in my project log also and vice versa. I want to
+
+00:16:00.360 --> 00:16:04.799
+execute on my project. I need that notes where I'm looking
+
+00:16:04.800 --> 00:16:10.599
+for. That's a key feature of that is with logseq you just have
+
+00:16:10.600 --> 00:16:14.160
+a button that says go to today. So you don't think about it and
+
+00:16:14.161 --> 00:16:18.060
+it always starts empty. It's that blank sheet that's always
+
+00:16:18.061 --> 00:16:23.079
+confirming you want the things that I used that before.
+
+00:16:23.080 --> 00:16:26.360
+One of the things I really wanted was, I want this,
+
+00:16:26.397 --> 00:16:29.198
+but I want it for Getting Things Done on my journal.
+
+00:16:29.199 --> 00:16:36.279
+I want two separate ones.
+
+00:16:36.280 --> 00:16:45.319
+Yeah, I like the, also I'm trying to see how to create pages
+
+00:16:45.320 --> 00:16:51.119
+quickly from within Org Mode. I know we can do the square
+
+00:16:51.120 --> 00:16:55.879
+bracket thing and enter and it should go into a new page. but
+
+00:16:55.880 --> 00:17:00.879
+it's not as seamless as in logseq or obsidian i'm trying to
+
+00:17:00.880 --> 00:17:06.239
+see how which way do i do that quickly so that you don't spend
+
+00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:10.439
+time on organizing once you have the bigger setup of the
+
+00:17:10.440 --> 00:17:14.959
+folder structures and the to do then it's easier to
+
+00:17:14.960 --> 00:17:18.599
+integrate it but if i'm starting from a business point of
+
+00:17:18.600 --> 00:17:22.679
+view it's rather tough for them to set it all up because the
+
+00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:27.679
+setup costs are very high in terms of system first and then
+
+00:17:27.680 --> 00:17:30.639
+start with this. Or like you said, you know we could also
+
+00:17:30.640 --> 00:17:33.759
+start with a blank sheet and then start filling it up and then
+
+00:17:33.760 --> 00:17:39.159
+see how to link up things or move it around so that it fits into
+
+00:17:39.160 --> 00:17:44.719
+your larger system or evolve a system as it goes. Don't start
+
+00:17:44.720 --> 00:17:47.959
+with the system in mind, but evolve it because it then fits
+
+00:17:47.960 --> 00:17:52.559
+into how you are rather than the you trying to adapt to the
+
+00:17:52.560 --> 00:17:53.159
+system.
+
+NOTE Capturing
+
+00:17:53.160 --> 00:18:00.559
+So, Denote and org-roam, they'll have a feature, like the
+
+00:18:00.560 --> 00:18:05.199
+note, you have a command called, let's see, create or
+
+00:18:05.200 --> 00:18:09.479
+existing note, and org-roam has an equivalent to that, and
+
+00:18:09.480 --> 00:18:14.999
+what that, you need to consult with that, as you are browsing
+
+00:18:15.000 --> 00:18:19.279
+your notes, you see that, and so if you're making a new note,
+
+00:18:19.280 --> 00:18:23.119
+power generation or something like that you'll easily see
+
+00:18:23.120 --> 00:18:27.799
+if you have any notes that are in power generation or like
+
+00:18:27.800 --> 00:18:30.839
+let's say you have something in power and if you don't you
+
+00:18:30.840 --> 00:18:34.079
+just go down to where you're just you know you don't have
+
+00:18:34.080 --> 00:18:39.599
+anything selected or so it's your what's in your uh what your
+
+00:18:39.600 --> 00:18:46.719
+current so you're not pre-selecting something existing
+
+00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:51.599
+and voila now you have a file And then you have consult so you
+
+00:18:51.600 --> 00:18:57.879
+can preview them as you move up and down the list.
+
+00:18:57.880 --> 00:19:02.319
+And then you also got Emacs
+
+00:19:02.320 --> 00:19:10.719
+Org Capture to just pop up a template
+
+00:19:10.720 --> 00:19:16.599
+capture buffer that is blank that you can tell to go into
+
+00:19:16.600 --> 00:19:20.919
+something like a journal or a GTD inbox.
+
+00:19:20.920 --> 00:19:27.279
+And yeah, this allows you to just make it like a specific
+
+00:19:27.280 --> 00:19:30.999
+buffer to do that specific task. I think Protesilaos has a
+
+00:19:31.000 --> 00:19:35.479
+video about how to make that into just a pop-up window. Like
+
+00:19:35.480 --> 00:19:41.519
+for instance, you're in your browser, you pop it up, Uh, jot
+
+00:19:41.520 --> 00:19:49.599
+down your task, press enter, and it's gone. Hmm, okay. Okay,
+
+NOTE Note silos
+
+00:19:49.600 --> 00:19:54.919
+okay, makes sense, makes sense. Yeah, for me, I wanted to try
+
+00:19:54.920 --> 00:20:01.079
+denote, but my folder structure, I found it very difficult
+
+00:20:01.080 --> 00:20:04.559
+to move it to a denote kind of a structure where the folder
+
+00:20:04.560 --> 00:20:08.519
+hierarchy is not as important because all nodes are treated
+
+00:20:08.520 --> 00:20:12.639
+the same. But for me, because I'm focusing on a project, I
+
+00:20:12.640 --> 00:20:17.079
+need only the project files show up. It was tricky for me to,
+
+00:20:17.080 --> 00:20:20.599
+because sometimes I share the folder with my colleagues and
+
+00:20:20.600 --> 00:20:24.519
+who are not on Emacs or more. So I can't show them all the
+
+00:20:24.520 --> 00:20:28.879
+files, all the notes. I just want that folder to be shared and
+
+00:20:28.880 --> 00:20:32.439
+ignore the todo.org that is there because it's not readable
+
+00:20:32.440 --> 00:20:37.679
+for them. So, I find it easier to share a folder level or a
+
+00:20:37.680 --> 00:20:41.639
+project level and that's why I stuck to this format which is a
+
+00:20:41.640 --> 00:20:46.639
+hierarchy of folders with the to-do inside those folders.
+
+00:20:46.640 --> 00:20:49.719
+That works very well for me, particularly keeping in mind
+
+00:20:49.720 --> 00:20:52.479
+that I need to share some folders sometimes with my
+
+00:20:52.480 --> 00:20:57.439
+colleagues. Whereas Denote with a flat structure or
+
+00:20:57.440 --> 00:21:01.919
+Roam with a flat structure, I find it very tricky to do that.
+
+00:21:01.920 --> 00:21:06.079
+With Denote, you can actually have, there's a feature
+
+00:21:06.080 --> 00:21:07.759
+called silos that will
+
+00:21:07.760 --> 00:21:13.199
+allow you to do both and I think you can make customized
+
+00:21:13.200 --> 00:21:17.959
+commands to go that work only in specific silos. I haven't
+
+00:21:17.960 --> 00:21:20.919
+messed around to it. too much with them. I don't think org run
+
+00:21:20.920 --> 00:21:24.719
+has anything like that though. Yes, I don't think they have
+
+00:21:24.720 --> 00:21:28.239
+that. But I remember seeing silos. Maybe I should give it
+
+00:21:28.240 --> 00:21:32.119
+another spin and see if that works. Because if it can solve my
+
+00:21:32.120 --> 00:21:36.519
+creating new node quickly from the denote part itself while
+
+00:21:36.520 --> 00:21:40.439
+I'm writing the nodes itself rather than go through the R
+
+00:21:40.440 --> 00:21:45.439
+capture. That will really help me in linking back and seeing
+
+00:21:45.440 --> 00:21:49.399
+how it maps to another project that I've already worked on
+
+00:21:49.400 --> 00:21:53.999
+from an archive and then bring it there. I think that's a good
+
+00:21:54.000 --> 00:21:57.639
+idea. I'll look at silos again. Also, with the silos, let's
+
+00:21:57.640 --> 00:22:03.719
+say you're going to use ripgrep on the directory, you could
+
+00:22:03.720 --> 00:22:07.799
+intentionally keep your Zettelkasten and your journal
+
+00:22:07.800 --> 00:22:13.159
+separated. in different folders, like, yeah. So that,
+
+00:22:13.160 --> 00:22:19.039
+like, if you direct them, or if you wanted to share folder by
+
+00:22:19.040 --> 00:22:23.399
+folder basis, yeah, you don't have to be the all-in or
+
+00:22:23.400 --> 00:22:30.759
+nothing approach. Yeah, that works. That works.
+
+00:22:30.760 --> 00:22:35.119
+Excellent.
+
+00:22:35.120 --> 00:22:37.839
+OK.
+
+00:22:37.840 --> 00:22:44.159
+Well, thank you so much for your time and for sharing what is
+
+00:22:44.160 --> 00:22:47.919
+really helpful for me. I hope the talk was useful for you.
+
+00:22:47.920 --> 00:22:53.839
+Yep. Thanks for sharing. Have fun with the rest of the Emacs
+
+00:22:53.840 --> 00:23:00.799
+camp. Okay. All right. Then see you then. Happy Emacs month
+
+00:23:00.800 --> 00:23:06.200
+to you too. Okay. Bye. Bye.
diff --git a/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-literate--literate-programming-for-the-21st-century--howard-abrams--answers.vtt b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-literate--literate-programming-for-the-21st-century--howard-abrams--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..803d43df
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-literate--literate-programming-for-the-21st-century--howard-abrams--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,996 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.839
+I'm doing great. Good to hear from you guys. Yeah, I mean,
+
+00:00:04.840 --> 00:00:07.959
+you've been a regular of the show, I would say, for quite a
+
+00:00:07.960 --> 00:00:11.399
+while, and it's good. I really like the retrospective that
+
+00:00:11.400 --> 00:00:14.959
+you did the first time you attended EmacsConf. And when was
+
+00:00:14.960 --> 00:00:18.759
+it? Was it 2015? I can't actually remember. 2015 was when I
+
+00:00:18.760 --> 00:00:22.319
+presented that, but I did an earlier talk the year before. So
+
+00:00:22.320 --> 00:00:25.479
+yeah, that's why it's kind of thing. It's like, wow, it's
+
+00:00:25.480 --> 00:00:31.279
+been a decade. It's been a while. Yeah, and I'm glad that you
+
+00:00:31.280 --> 00:00:35.559
+are in a much better recording situation than you were in
+
+00:00:35.560 --> 00:00:39.439
+2015 at the back of your colleague's house. It's good to see
+
+00:00:39.440 --> 00:00:44.359
+you at your own place. Well, it's also nice to pre-record and
+
+00:00:44.360 --> 00:00:48.239
+then just share. Yeah, I mean, that's why we keep talking
+
+00:00:48.240 --> 00:00:51.519
+about pre-recording. You know, when we really pushed
+
+00:00:51.520 --> 00:00:53.759
+pre-recordings, I think it was five years ago when we
+
+00:00:53.760 --> 00:00:57.679
+started, people were not really liking it. They thought,
+
+00:00:57.680 --> 00:01:00.039
+oh, but most conferences are just asking you to come and
+
+00:01:00.040 --> 00:01:02.919
+chat. And, you know, I don't need to do the pesky
+
+00:01:02.920 --> 00:01:06.319
+pre-recording. But now, and especially for you regulars,
+
+00:01:06.320 --> 00:01:08.359
+you're really starting to realize that pre-recordings are
+
+00:01:08.360 --> 00:01:11.279
+actually amazing for everyone. You're less stressed on the
+
+00:01:11.280 --> 00:01:14.199
+day of the conference. We, the organizers, are way less
+
+00:01:14.200 --> 00:01:16.519
+stressed. So it's a win-win scenario for absolutely
+
+00:01:16.520 --> 00:01:19.359
+everyone in the equation. Okay, so there's some
+
+00:01:19.360 --> 00:01:22.519
+confirmation bias at work, but I'm not really arguing with
+
+00:01:22.520 --> 00:01:27.639
+what Leo says for the record. It may be that we are just that
+
+00:01:27.640 --> 00:01:30.759
+this stoked that we're lying to ourselves by the
+
+00:01:30.760 --> 00:01:33.959
+opportunity that we have to chat with each of you. Sure.
+
+00:01:33.960 --> 00:01:38.759
+Sure. Sure. I have really appreciated all of the, the
+
+00:01:38.760 --> 00:01:43.559
+transcripts. It's been great that, you know, to be able to
+
+00:01:43.560 --> 00:01:46.519
+read and copy and paste and all that kind of thing. Yeah, it's
+
+00:01:46.520 --> 00:01:49.959
+great. So yeah, let's answer some questions here.
+
+00:01:49.960 --> 00:01:58.159
+Let's see. Yeah, just feel free to jump onto the Etherpad and
+
+00:01:58.160 --> 00:02:01.239
+just drop on the questions. I'll keep answering them all day
+
+00:02:01.240 --> 00:02:07.399
+kind of thing and get better answers as we go along.
+
+NOTE Q: What's the largest code base you've ever tackled with the literate approach (esp. Emacs + Org-mode)?
+
+00:02:07.400 --> 00:02:12.439
+So yeah, the first question here is, what's my largest code base?
+
+00:02:12.440 --> 00:02:18.359
+I kind of touched it in my presentation. However, I think
+
+00:02:18.360 --> 00:02:22.439
+someone just went through and did a better count than it
+
+00:02:22.440 --> 00:02:27.879
+looks like. a little bit more. So
+
+00:02:27.880 --> 00:02:32.959
+as I joked about in the video, we've all worked on larger code
+
+00:02:32.960 --> 00:02:36.799
+bases, but that's still, it's kind of significant. So it's
+
+00:02:36.800 --> 00:02:43.679
+not, so yeah, anyway. So let's talk a little bit about
+
+00:02:43.680 --> 00:02:49.519
+searching for functions here. If you've got your functions
+
+00:02:49.520 --> 00:02:53.679
+in your code or code block, well, you can search for the
+
+00:02:53.680 --> 00:02:59.319
+descriptions, you know, as long as you've evaluated it. And
+
+00:02:59.320 --> 00:03:04.519
+so that wasn't so much of a problem, but I did want to like look
+
+00:03:04.520 --> 00:03:07.839
+at the commentary around any function that I would define.
+
+00:03:07.840 --> 00:03:14.039
+And that's where, yeah, you know, the C-x or the
+
+00:03:14.040 --> 00:03:18.919
+C-f to define that function and display it. It won't
+
+00:03:18.920 --> 00:03:22.279
+pull out the literate stuff around it, obviously, it'll
+
+00:03:22.280 --> 00:03:27.159
+only do the doc header. But if you could search for it and find
+
+00:03:27.160 --> 00:03:30.559
+it quick, then it might be just as useful. And I guess that's
+
+00:03:30.560 --> 00:03:36.079
+why I started getting into seeing if I can't tie that into the
+
+00:03:36.080 --> 00:03:40.839
+X ref. you know, just the standard ways. My first part, I
+
+00:03:40.840 --> 00:03:45.799
+noticed that evil has a different way of searching through
+
+00:03:45.800 --> 00:03:50.999
+for looking for code definitions. That was my first foray
+
+00:03:51.000 --> 00:03:53.959
+into it. It's like, oh, that's not a bad idea. Let's hook it up
+
+00:03:53.960 --> 00:03:58.079
+under, you know, in the standard way.
+
+NOTE Q: Have you ever used org-transclusion?
+
+00:03:58.080 --> 00:04:02.279
+Let's see. Have I ever used org-transclusion?
+
+00:04:02.280 --> 00:04:05.319
+No, I haven't, but I think I want to
+
+00:04:05.320 --> 00:04:08.439
+take a look at it. I haven't heard of it before.
+
+NOTE Q: What is your usage of dynamic blocks in such workflows?
+
+00:04:08.440 --> 00:04:16.519
+Let's see. What's my usage of dynamic blocks in my
+
+00:04:16.520 --> 00:04:21.439
+workflows? You know, that's a real good question. I haven't
+
+00:04:21.440 --> 00:04:26.319
+really used them a lot in all of my workflows, but yeah, it's
+
+00:04:26.320 --> 00:04:29.439
+an interesting, you know, we always start.
+
+00:04:29.440 --> 00:04:30.999
+At first, all
+
+00:04:31.000 --> 00:04:33.679
+we're doing is just taking a few notes, then we start
+
+00:04:33.680 --> 00:04:36.039
+organizing, then we've got links, and then we're writing
+
+00:04:36.040 --> 00:04:39.519
+code blocks, and then agendas, and table, you know, we keep
+
+00:04:39.520 --> 00:04:40.999
+building up on it.
+
+00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:44.399
+I guess I haven't really added that to
+
+00:04:44.400 --> 00:04:46.978
+my workflow, but maybe I'll have to come back
+
+00:04:46.979 --> 00:04:48.839
+and report on that.
+
+NOTE Q: Is the minibuffer being deliberately hidden in this video?
+
+00:04:48.840 --> 00:04:51.599
+Is the mini buffer being deliberately hidden in my
+
+00:04:51.600 --> 00:04:57.879
+video? Not deliberately. I recorded it first and
+
+00:04:57.880 --> 00:05:03.759
+accidentally not clipped the video and turned that all off.
+
+00:05:03.760 --> 00:05:07.359
+So I went through and started fixing all of it. But yeah, so
+
+00:05:07.360 --> 00:05:10.759
+you'll notice the mini buffer kind of comes and goes in the
+
+00:05:10.760 --> 00:05:12.444
+video. Sorry about that.
+
+00:05:12.445 --> 00:05:17.340
+So yeah, it wasn't intentional at all.
+
+NOTE Q: What's your take on Emacs+Org vs. Jupyter notebooks (for interactive programming)?
+
+00:05:17.341 --> 00:05:21.839
+What's my take on Emacs Org versus Jupyter? That's a real
+
+00:05:21.840 --> 00:05:29.519
+good question. I've been toying about seeing if I could do
+
+00:05:29.520 --> 00:05:32.479
+everything that some people do with Jupyter notebooks in
+
+00:05:32.480 --> 00:05:36.079
+order. I don't need to do it as much because I'm still kind of
+
+00:05:36.080 --> 00:05:40.319
+doing a lot of list programming and a lot of my DevOps, which
+
+00:05:40.320 --> 00:05:45.559
+is a lot of shell work and a lot of Python. Most of the Jupyter
+
+00:05:45.560 --> 00:05:49.639
+notebooks, they automatically include a lot of things in
+
+00:05:49.640 --> 00:05:56.679
+from either Julia or Python, like NumPy and all the dynamic
+
+00:05:56.680 --> 00:06:01.439
+stuff that's going on there. Since it has a server,
+
+00:06:01.440 --> 00:06:07.439
+it seems like it's running a lot more stuff and then just
+
+00:06:07.440 --> 00:06:10.719
+shipping it back off into the web app. That has been the
+
+00:06:10.720 --> 00:06:16.239
+biggest challenge as I've tried to kind of duplicate that. I
+
+00:06:16.240 --> 00:06:20.439
+don't really know NumPy and all the math stuff and that sort
+
+00:06:20.440 --> 00:06:25.039
+of stuff that well. So trying to do like matrix
+
+00:06:25.040 --> 00:06:27.359
+multiplications and that kind of thing that seemed to be
+
+00:06:27.360 --> 00:06:33.119
+pretty easy in the Jupyter, it's not very easy in Org. I've
+
+00:06:33.120 --> 00:06:36.639
+attempted to kind of work with Julia and the Julia support
+
+00:06:36.640 --> 00:06:45.759
+for Org is really limited it seems. That's the, So, yeah,
+
+00:06:45.760 --> 00:06:49.199
+there's some improvements we could probably make. So, I
+
+00:06:49.200 --> 00:06:53.159
+think if somebody is comfortable with Jupiter, and that
+
+00:06:53.160 --> 00:06:59.039
+seems to work, you may have to stay there. I don't know how
+
+00:06:59.040 --> 00:07:04.679
+easy. I would be curious to try to see what we could do as a
+
+00:07:04.680 --> 00:07:07.799
+community to kind of make that transition a lot easier.
+
+NOTE Q: Do you think any programming language is more suited to literate programming than another?
+
+00:07:07.800 --> 00:07:12.416
+Do you think any programming language
+
+00:07:12.417 --> 00:07:13.559
+is more suited to literate
+
+00:07:13.560 --> 00:07:16.959
+programming than another? Hey, that's a real good
+
+00:07:16.960 --> 00:07:22.359
+question. A lot of mine is with Emacs Lisp, and obviously
+
+00:07:22.360 --> 00:07:27.639
+that's a first-class citizen in Emacs. Go figure, right? So
+
+00:07:27.640 --> 00:07:33.519
+that one certainly works. A lot depends on the support in the
+
+00:07:33.520 --> 00:07:38.199
+OB version for the Babel work. Python is really well
+
+00:07:38.200 --> 00:07:45.599
+supported, and yeah, Emacs Lisp. Others, Shell, you know,
+
+00:07:45.600 --> 00:07:50.439
+it works, but it's hard to get both the values, the variables
+
+00:07:50.440 --> 00:07:53.479
+out of the environment variables into your thing. So most
+
+00:07:53.480 --> 00:07:58.959
+everything is just with the results of output. So, you know,
+
+00:07:58.960 --> 00:08:03.079
+some languages aren't quite as good as others for sure. I
+
+00:08:03.080 --> 00:08:06.879
+would love to see better support for more interesting
+
+00:08:06.880 --> 00:08:10.439
+languages, especially ones that are compiled. I've been
+
+00:08:10.440 --> 00:08:16.639
+dabbling with Rust and like, yeah, what can we do to have Rust
+
+00:08:16.640 --> 00:08:21.559
+more iterative as well? So...
+
+NOTE Q: Do you use inline org function calls and org babel library and such?
+
+00:08:21.560 --> 00:08:29.159
+Do you use inline org function calls in Org Babel library? So
+
+00:08:29.160 --> 00:08:33.599
+I used to do a lot of Org Babel libraries to kind of share
+
+00:08:33.600 --> 00:08:35.639
+things.
+
+00:08:35.640 --> 00:08:46.399
+Yeah. What I. But yeah. Sorry, I'm just kind of thinking
+
+00:08:46.400 --> 00:08:49.839
+through here. I've done a lot of it in the past. There were a
+
+00:08:49.840 --> 00:08:54.919
+lot of bugs in it. Oh, I don't know, eight years ago when I was
+
+00:08:54.920 --> 00:08:59.359
+playing with it. I bet things have improved a lot more and it
+
+00:08:59.360 --> 00:09:04.239
+probably saved me a lot more effort. Right now, most of the
+
+00:09:04.240 --> 00:09:08.639
+literate devops, the devops kind of stuff that I'm doing, is
+
+00:09:08.640 --> 00:09:14.079
+calling a lot of back-end programs and that sort of thing. So
+
+00:09:14.080 --> 00:09:19.359
+the Org Babel kind of has limited help in that regard. And as
+
+00:09:19.360 --> 00:09:23.999
+far as my Emacs work, well, it's just part of the session. So
+
+00:09:24.000 --> 00:09:26.759
+it's going to be available or not. So that hasn't been as
+
+00:09:26.760 --> 00:09:30.559
+helpful either. So it's kind of dropped off. But I bet if
+
+00:09:30.560 --> 00:09:34.519
+you're using something like, say, Python, it might be a lot
+
+00:09:34.520 --> 00:09:36.969
+more helpful.
+
+NOTE Q: How do you handle the cases where org markup may sometimes interfere with some of the code?
+
+00:09:36.970 --> 00:09:40.159
+Another question, how do you handle the cases
+
+00:09:40.160 --> 00:09:43.999
+where markup may sometimes interfere with some of the code
+
+00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:50.559
+in places where you can't escape? Oh, okay. All right. Let me
+
+00:09:50.560 --> 00:09:54.719
+see if I understand the question correctly.
+
+00:09:54.720 --> 00:10:01.759
+When I, like, when I'm making prose, and I'm talking about a
+
+00:10:01.760 --> 00:10:04.839
+function that I've written somewhere else, like, oh, I need
+
+00:10:04.840 --> 00:10:09.439
+to work on this, or this calls this, and yeah, I'll use the
+
+00:10:09.440 --> 00:10:14.839
+tildes or the equal signs on either side to make sure it's.
+
+00:10:14.840 --> 00:10:20.399
+that it's clear that it's code. In my xref, when I'm doing a
+
+00:10:20.400 --> 00:10:27.479
+thing-at-point so it can go look for that symbol, I do look for
+
+00:10:27.480 --> 00:10:31.919
+those things at the end and strip them off so that I can mark it
+
+00:10:31.920 --> 00:10:35.039
+up and still search and it's still okay. I'm not sure if
+
+00:10:35.040 --> 00:10:39.359
+that's the answer to the question. Yeah, clarifying. I'm
+
+00:10:39.360 --> 00:10:41.759
+making prose. I'm talking about a function I've written
+
+00:10:41.760 --> 00:10:47.319
+somewhere else. Yeah, yeah, yeah, that is what I'm talking
+
+00:10:47.320 --> 00:10:53.279
+about, where a function with tildes on either end, and if I do
+
+00:10:53.280 --> 00:10:57.359
+an xref search find for that symbol, it'll strip that off and
+
+00:10:57.360 --> 00:11:01.439
+then still look for the function name, so I can still mark it
+
+00:11:01.440 --> 00:11:06.219
+correctly.
+
+NOTE Q: You said at the start that literate didn't catch on in corporate DevOps - why not?
+
+00:11:06.220 --> 00:11:08.439
+You said at the start that literate didn't catch on in
+
+00:11:08.440 --> 00:11:14.719
+corporate devops, why not? You know,
+
+00:11:14.720 --> 00:11:18.919
+I guess the big thing is not everybody's using Emacs,
+
+00:11:18.920 --> 00:11:20.610
+and I don't think anybody would be
+
+00:11:20.611 --> 00:11:23.651
+doing literate programming if you didn't
+
+00:11:23.652 --> 00:11:25.199
+have Emacs. I mean, you got to have Org, or it just
+
+00:11:25.200 --> 00:11:29.420
+doesn't work that well, right?
+
+NOTE Q: Why not that full stack on Markdown?
+
+00:11:29.421 --> 00:11:36.359
+Why not that full stack on Markdown? Yeah, so I often do a lot
+
+00:11:36.360 --> 00:11:44.279
+of Markdown. I have got, so I've gone through and make my
+
+00:11:44.280 --> 00:11:49.039
+markdown look a lot like Org. So my headers are the same size
+
+00:11:49.040 --> 00:11:54.759
+as org. When I mark, do the triple back ticks, you know, and
+
+00:11:54.760 --> 00:11:59.279
+specify your language, we can now colorize that.
+
+00:11:59.280 --> 00:12:01.521
+So you can kind of now have it
+
+00:12:01.522 --> 00:12:05.679
+syntactically marked up. It would be
+
+00:12:05.680 --> 00:12:11.199
+interesting if we kind of expanded on Markdown so that I
+
+00:12:11.200 --> 00:12:14.479
+could do a C-c twice on it and run that code block.
+
+00:12:14.480 --> 00:12:22.119
+That's a real good idea. Maybe we should work on that.
+
+NOTE Corwin's aside on orgvm
+
+00:12:22.120 --> 00:12:28.039
+How does your management of TODOs, projects, and tasks
+
+00:12:28.040 --> 00:12:31.679
+interact with this literate mindset? I can't believe I'm
+
+00:12:31.680 --> 00:12:33.879
+going to do this, but Howard, I'm going to break right in
+
+00:12:33.880 --> 00:12:37.119
+there because I just can't. I need to talk about that. So this
+
+00:12:37.120 --> 00:12:41.799
+is I bought a domain. And really what I mean is I have this
+
+00:12:41.800 --> 00:12:45.599
+domain if somebody gets some work done in this area. I'm
+
+00:12:45.600 --> 00:12:48.839
+fascinated by this. That's mostly really actually my whole
+
+00:12:48.840 --> 00:12:52.599
+comment. But I just wanted to say, indeed, that is something
+
+00:12:52.600 --> 00:12:56.599
+maybe we should work on. Well said. I think the idea of having
+
+00:12:56.600 --> 00:12:59.559
+something that's full-stack baked around Emacs is pretty
+
+00:12:59.560 --> 00:13:03.079
+fascinating, just thinking about it as some command line
+
+00:13:03.080 --> 00:13:05.639
+tool that we can run to get some work done, and then there are
+
+00:13:05.640 --> 00:13:07.969
+documents involved, and as you know coming back
+
+00:13:07.970 --> 00:13:10.511
+to the kind of corporate
+
+00:13:10.512 --> 00:13:12.759
+sense of some of the things like there...
+
+00:13:12.760 --> 00:13:15.319
+that's a little dicey the same way a free software
+
+00:13:15.320 --> 00:13:19.038
+project raising money for itself is a little dicey.
+
+00:13:19.039 --> 00:13:21.720
+It might be a necessary way to get through
+
+00:13:21.721 --> 00:13:23.882
+certain kinds of things and like
+
+00:13:23.883 --> 00:13:26.559
+what the corporate side of the world brings to the table
+
+00:13:26.560 --> 00:13:31.989
+Here in my mind is that idea of I've got a formal process,
+
+00:13:31.990 --> 00:13:33.830
+like the process itself is an asset.
+
+00:13:33.831 --> 00:13:35.239
+If I were selling my company,
+
+00:13:35.240 --> 00:13:39.399
+that would be visibly of value to outside auditors that
+
+00:13:39.400 --> 00:13:43.257
+would help us arbitrate the sale. It's just empirical.
+
+00:13:43.258 --> 00:13:48.239
+Then tie that together with free software is maybe a little
+
+00:13:48.240 --> 00:13:53.159
+unstated ethos of doing our work in the open, and you might
+
+00:13:53.160 --> 00:13:58.759
+even deal with some of the ick factor. that you know that for a
+
+00:13:58.760 --> 00:14:05.119
+handler. Maybe so, but yeah, the downside to that is you'd
+
+00:14:05.120 --> 00:14:09.679
+still need to use Emacs to run through it, right? You know,
+
+00:14:09.680 --> 00:14:13.719
+for all those cool features, yes, it would be kind of a yet
+
+00:14:13.720 --> 00:14:17.519
+another killer app that we would have. So my domain name is
+
+00:14:17.520 --> 00:14:22.239
+orgvm, and my concept is really put org into a box, build a UI
+
+00:14:22.240 --> 00:14:25.119
+around it, it executes things that manipulate files that
+
+00:14:25.120 --> 00:14:30.239
+generate, let's say, And that's just one conceptual
+
+00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:34.359
+solution. But I really do think this is a super fun topic. And
+
+00:14:34.360 --> 00:14:37.479
+that's the space. I'm not sure my idea is that wonderful. I
+
+00:14:37.480 --> 00:14:42.439
+personally haven't soaked too many weekends into it. But I
+
+00:14:42.440 --> 00:14:45.159
+just love the way you're thinking in terms of, well, we
+
+00:14:45.160 --> 00:14:49.519
+should think more about that. Gosh, that's great to hear.
+
+NOTE Org and Markdown fragmentation
+
+00:14:49.520 --> 00:14:53.399
+Yeah. Yeah, I mean, just like the talk yesterday on the
+
+00:14:53.400 --> 00:14:57.639
+future of org, it's like, let's standardize it. Because,
+
+00:14:57.640 --> 00:15:03.239
+yeah, we don't want to have org fragmented like Markdown is.
+
+00:15:03.240 --> 00:15:06.839
+Markdown is terribly fragmented. You know, everybody's
+
+00:15:06.840 --> 00:15:10.199
+got different implementations. And Yeah, what I've ended
+
+00:15:10.200 --> 00:15:15.039
+up doing, I don't know if you've seen my blog, but I often I'm
+
+00:15:15.040 --> 00:15:19.119
+always just writing an org and talking to myself and writing
+
+00:15:19.120 --> 00:15:22.919
+questions and answers and essays come out of that. And then
+
+00:15:22.920 --> 00:15:26.319
+I'll put them on my web page and easy. It's easy to publish to a
+
+00:15:26.320 --> 00:15:30.079
+web page. Well, I do the same thing at work, but I need to have
+
+00:15:30.080 --> 00:15:33.319
+it marked down. I don't start Markdown though. I'm always
+
+00:15:33.320 --> 00:15:36.479
+starting an org because that, you know, I can really work
+
+00:15:36.480 --> 00:15:40.239
+through the problem space, you know, executing code blocks
+
+00:15:40.240 --> 00:15:44.759
+and making sure they work and all of that sort of stuff. And
+
+00:15:44.760 --> 00:15:47.959
+then I just export to Markdown and then go cleaned up a little
+
+00:15:47.960 --> 00:15:51.679
+bit if I need to. And that makes sense. But I am editing
+
+00:15:51.680 --> 00:15:55.999
+Markdown afterwards. So yeah, it would be nice. It would be
+
+00:15:56.000 --> 00:16:00.359
+nice. It's just, it's all done over here as opposed to, you
+
+00:16:00.360 --> 00:16:02.879
+know, Adding it over there, but yeah, let's think about
+
+00:16:02.880 --> 00:16:06.519
+every bit as much as as that. You know, I jumped in in the
+
+00:16:06.520 --> 00:16:09.959
+spirit of yes, let's think about it. You know, your, your
+
+00:16:09.960 --> 00:16:12.599
+comments about, let's think about the workflows that work
+
+00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:17.919
+for us. Wow. Does that hit home? Right? So great. Yeah. Yeah.
+
+NOTE Q: How does your management of "TODOs" (projects/tasks) interact with this literate mindset, any insightful things you do on that front?
+
+00:16:17.920 --> 00:16:25.279
+Yeah. Okay. So, uh, on to do's and that sort of thing, um. You
+
+00:16:25.280 --> 00:16:32.199
+know, a lot is the same as it was 10 years ago. At the beginning
+
+00:16:32.200 --> 00:16:33.319
+of every sprint,
+
+00:16:33.320 --> 00:16:38.279
+my company, we're using JIRA.
+
+00:16:38.280 --> 00:16:46.159
+All jokes are valid when I say that. But I just go to its web
+
+00:16:46.160 --> 00:16:49.639
+page. I copy all the tasks that I need to do that sprint. I
+
+00:16:49.640 --> 00:16:54.119
+wrote a function that takes that code and reformats it as a
+
+00:16:54.120 --> 00:16:58.199
+bunch of org tasks for me to do that I can just now have all my
+
+00:16:58.200 --> 00:17:02.799
+to-dos. And I start to work off of that from that point on. So
+
+00:17:02.800 --> 00:17:06.479
+it'll reference all the projects, and I do symlinks to every
+
+00:17:06.480 --> 00:17:12.479
+code base that I need to use. Most of the to-dos I put inside my
+
+00:17:12.480 --> 00:17:16.639
+code block is kind of just for me, just so I can remember it.
+
+00:17:16.640 --> 00:17:21.086
+Because the work that I have to do
+
+00:17:21.087 --> 00:17:24.119
+needs to be tracked a little more
+
+00:17:24.120 --> 00:17:30.629
+fine-grained, I guess. Yeah.
+
+NOTE Q: Do you LP also on larger projects?
+
+00:17:30.630 --> 00:17:33.439
+Do I use LP also on larger
+
+00:17:33.440 --> 00:17:37.199
+projects? More files and nested directories? Yeah, I
+
+00:17:37.200 --> 00:17:43.879
+haven't really done nested directories, but I can now. Now
+
+00:17:43.880 --> 00:17:49.839
+that I've now kind of realized that I have the feature that I
+
+00:17:49.840 --> 00:17:54.439
+demonstrated where I can just jump to any projects for a
+
+00:17:54.440 --> 00:17:59.559
+particular project, all the org files and all the headings
+
+00:17:59.560 --> 00:18:02.439
+show up, that works in nested directories.
+
+00:18:02.440 --> 00:18:10.999
+Oh, okay, yeah, somebody's typing it in. Yeah, so it's
+
+00:18:11.000 --> 00:18:15.359
+definitely possible. And I have now, since I recorded the
+
+00:18:15.360 --> 00:18:20.519
+talk, I've been busy typing in and trying to extract that out
+
+00:18:20.520 --> 00:18:24.479
+of my init file and make it into a package. I'm looking for a
+
+00:18:24.480 --> 00:18:30.239
+good name right now. I'm calling it jobs, jump to project
+
+00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:36.399
+sections. Anyway, but yeah, I think that's kind of a nice,
+
+00:18:36.400 --> 00:18:38.935
+useful feature.
+
+NOTE Q: Have you used Cucumber/Gherkin/BDD and do you think it has a strong overlap to what you talked about here?
+
+00:18:38.936 --> 00:18:41.919
+Have I used Cucumber, Gherkin, and other
+
+00:18:41.920 --> 00:18:44.479
+behavior-driven development?
+
+00:18:44.480 --> 00:18:50.719
+Have I, I mean, I do a lot of...
+
+00:18:50.720 --> 00:19:00.279
+more test driven. I do a lot of unit tests and I just put it
+
+00:19:00.280 --> 00:19:04.679
+right in my code base because if it's in my pros, I can just
+
+00:19:04.680 --> 00:19:07.199
+shove it in there. I've got the test right next to the
+
+00:19:07.200 --> 00:19:11.519
+function that I'm testing. I like that so I can kind of see it.
+
+00:19:11.520 --> 00:19:15.359
+I don't tangle it out to that same source file. I tangle it
+
+00:19:15.360 --> 00:19:19.119
+somewhere else if I tangle it at all because I don't need to. I
+
+00:19:19.120 --> 00:19:23.199
+can just, you know, C-c that and run it. I like that
+
+00:19:23.200 --> 00:19:24.879
+aspect of it.
+
+00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:29.319
+Yeah, just keeping things together. That's the big problem
+
+00:19:29.320 --> 00:19:32.479
+I have with a lot of tests is the tests are somewhere else.
+
+00:19:32.480 --> 00:19:35.319
+It's separate from the code. I like seeing it all together,
+
+00:19:35.320 --> 00:19:39.879
+but a lot depends on how extensive it is. So for a lot of the,
+
+00:19:39.880 --> 00:19:43.359
+you know, the tests that we end up doing where, you know,
+
+00:19:43.360 --> 00:19:47.759
+you've got to do a lot of mocks and a lot of startup and tear
+
+00:19:47.760 --> 00:19:51.839
+down, that kind of thing. Yeah, that doesn't help as much.
+
+00:19:51.840 --> 00:19:54.599
+And you probably have to kind of go old school on that.
+
+NOTE Q: What granularity are you looking for re your org files and contents, with respect to a codebase that it tangles to, or in non-coding contexts?
+
+00:19:54.600 --> 00:20:01.359
+What granularity I'm looking for with my org files and my
+
+00:20:01.360 --> 00:20:03.634
+subcontent? That's a real good question
+
+00:20:03.635 --> 00:20:05.255
+and really subjective.
+
+00:20:05.256 --> 00:20:13.159
+I change that over time. I begin by just dumping.
+
+00:20:13.160 --> 00:20:16.378
+I just dump everything in my head into a file
+
+00:20:16.379 --> 00:20:19.679
+and then I go through and start to refine it.
+
+00:20:19.680 --> 00:20:26.159
+My goal at one point was to have an Emacs config file that was
+
+00:20:26.160 --> 00:20:29.919
+really small and simple. And boy, that just doesn't happen.
+
+00:20:29.920 --> 00:20:35.759
+It's just too fun to add things and try new ideas. And I found
+
+00:20:35.760 --> 00:20:41.839
+my files were just littered with good ideas that were
+
+00:20:41.840 --> 00:20:47.119
+half-baked and not finished. And so it's like, oh, I need to
+
+00:20:47.120 --> 00:20:49.959
+extract these and put them into different files so I can keep
+
+00:20:49.960 --> 00:20:54.359
+it clean. And so I think it's like with any code base, you're
+
+00:20:54.360 --> 00:20:58.999
+just going to keep refactoring. It's an iterative process.
+
+00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:04.199
+So having the ability to, like with an Org file, where you can
+
+00:21:04.200 --> 00:21:09.159
+archive a subtree. Okay, this idea didn't pan out. Archive
+
+00:21:09.160 --> 00:21:13.519
+it. I can come back to it later. Being able to just kind of
+
+00:21:13.520 --> 00:21:20.399
+shove it somewhere else is really a nice little feature. All
+
+00:21:20.400 --> 00:21:25.079
+right. Not a question, just a comment. We need more of your
+
+00:21:25.080 --> 00:21:29.239
+insightful posts and videos. Oh, thanks.
+
+00:21:29.240 --> 00:21:35.519
+I appreciate it. Yes, it's been a fun journey. And I think we
+
+00:21:35.520 --> 00:21:38.519
+are coming up on our time, actually. So that is just an
+
+00:21:38.520 --> 00:21:41.919
+amazing quiz. And it helps me from manipulating, as I said,
+
+00:21:41.920 --> 00:21:46.959
+or as I put it earlier, like my chance as an organizer, or not
+
+00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:50.679
+manipulating, monopolizing my chance as an organizer to
+
+00:21:50.680 --> 00:21:53.439
+just get a chance to pick your brain on all kinds of things,
+
+00:21:53.440 --> 00:21:58.959
+which is too kind, too kind. Appreciate it. It's been fun.
+
+00:21:58.960 --> 00:22:04.679
+All right, I'll try answering more questions online as
+
+00:22:04.680 --> 00:22:07.959
+well. All right, talk to you later. And we appreciate your
+
+00:22:07.960 --> 00:22:10.399
+being in a huge resource that you are to the community.
+
+00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:14.199
+Thanks to everyone for tuning in and we'll be coming over to
+
+00:22:14.200 --> 00:22:18.239
+our next talk in just a moment here. And so bear with us
+
+00:22:18.240 --> 00:22:23.239
+through the transition as we slip into, I think it's our, is
+
+00:22:23.240 --> 00:22:26.919
+that our penultimate or our ultimate talk? We have one or two
+
+00:22:26.920 --> 00:22:30.119
+left, I'm not sure. I think we've got a couple of talks left.
+
+00:22:30.120 --> 00:22:34.079
+I'm back. Thank you, Howard. And we will be moving to the next
+
+00:22:34.080 --> 00:22:37.159
+talk in about six minutes. So if you need to grab some coffee,
+
+00:22:37.160 --> 00:22:42.119
+some tea, use the time wisely. And to confirm, we will have
+
+00:22:42.120 --> 00:22:44.319
+one, two, three more talks this afternoon. So there's still
+
+00:22:44.320 --> 00:22:48.160
+plenty to go around. See you in a bit, folks.
diff --git a/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-mcclim--elisp-and-mcclim--screwlisp--answers.vtt b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-mcclim--elisp-and-mcclim--screwlisp--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..812e174f
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-mcclim--elisp-and-mcclim--screwlisp--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,574 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+NOTE I would love to see the GUI interacting with the scheduling stuff
+
+00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:01.999
+...volume of code I've written that.
+
+00:00:02.000 --> 00:00:06.319
+I will do a follow-up video with the kind of synchronized
+
+00:00:06.320 --> 00:00:12.519
+elisp-mode stuff because that is the point of the talk. Sorry
+
+00:00:12.520 --> 00:00:38.599
+for talking over you. Please continue.
+
+00:00:38.600 --> 00:00:41.879
+sachac is saying (car kill-ring).
+
+00:00:41.880 --> 00:00:57.559
+Oh, yeah, so this question, they're just asking in the
+
+NOTE Q: Or any other GUI stuff you've worked on in the past that you'd be comfortable showing?
+
+00:00:57.560 --> 00:01:01.319
+Scratchpad, is there any other GUI stuff I've worked on in
+
+00:01:01.320 --> 00:01:07.319
+the past? I guess my Toobnix channel, I was doing a bunch of
+
+00:01:07.320 --> 00:01:12.639
+that, so just Common Lisp development, homed around
+
+00:01:12.640 --> 00:01:16.359
+McCLIM. What is my Toobnix channel? If you find a Toobnix
+
+00:01:16.360 --> 00:01:21.519
+channel and it has a name like Screwtape, that'll
+
+00:01:21.520 --> 00:01:28.679
+presumably be that. So Toobnix is SDF.org's PeerTube.
+
+00:01:28.680 --> 00:01:35.719
+Nope, not that one.
+
+00:01:35.720 --> 00:01:41.319
+Sacha's got it here in the IRC. I think it's
+
+00:01:41.320 --> 00:01:47.959
+screwtape_channels/videos. Yeah. So the
+
+00:01:47.960 --> 00:01:52.639
+author of mastodon.el, which hopefully lots of us are using
+
+00:01:52.640 --> 00:01:58.079
+for our mastodoning, I used the name Screwtape as my
+
+00:01:58.080 --> 00:02:01.519
+username, and I think Wintermute said some kind of
+
+00:02:01.520 --> 00:02:06.119
+exasperated Emacs theme. You know what? Screw Lisp. Then
+
+00:02:06.120 --> 00:02:09.719
+Mousebot of mastodon.el rechristened me screwlisp. So
+
+00:02:09.720 --> 00:02:12.319
+sometimes you see my name written one way, and sometimes you
+
+00:02:12.320 --> 00:02:15.039
+see my name written the other way. I quite like it. A lot of
+
+00:02:15.040 --> 00:02:19.319
+people thought that I was quitting Emacs when I changed my
+
+00:02:19.320 --> 00:02:23.399
+name to be mainly screwlisp. I love it. That's a great story.
+
+00:02:23.400 --> 00:02:27.319
+Thank you. It's so great to have a name from somebody else. I
+
+00:02:27.320 --> 00:02:29.999
+was just thrilled. So thank you, mousebot. Everyone use
+
+00:02:30.000 --> 00:02:35.199
+mousebot's mode. Welcome to Green Guest. I'm with you
+
+00:02:35.200 --> 00:02:38.399
+there. All my kids want to choose their own names, and I'm
+
+00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:41.359
+just like, more power to you. I'm very glad that my parents
+
+00:02:41.360 --> 00:02:45.479
+picked mine for me, and that's one thing I never had to think
+
+00:02:45.480 --> 00:02:50.439
+about. All right, so do we have to cut short so I can go back to
+
+00:02:50.440 --> 00:02:55.839
+watching MPV? of the other stuff. We don't have to, but you
+
+00:02:55.840 --> 00:02:58.999
+are not obligated to sit here one moment more answering our
+
+00:02:59.000 --> 00:03:02.039
+questions than, you know, but of course, you know, we've
+
+00:03:02.040 --> 00:03:07.399
+talked a little before, but I, so I have a pile of questions.
+
+NOTE Lispy Gopher Show
+
+00:03:07.400 --> 00:03:11.159
+You promised to come on the Lispy Gopher show. That's right.
+
+00:03:11.160 --> 00:03:13.239
+I have so much to say. I could, I could, I could come right on
+
+00:03:13.240 --> 00:03:16.039
+your show and just talk to you there, but I'm just curious.
+
+00:03:16.040 --> 00:03:18.559
+Talk to us a little bit about that. Tell us more about the
+
+00:03:18.560 --> 00:03:23.799
+program. Oh, the Lispy Gopher climate. What do we do? So it's
+
+00:03:23.800 --> 00:03:29.039
+hosted by the Superdimensional Fortress, SDF.org, who are
+
+00:03:29.040 --> 00:03:32.919
+a public access Unix mainly. They do their own little radio
+
+00:03:32.920 --> 00:03:38.359
+thing as well. And so I guess for a few years now, I do a weekly
+
+00:03:38.360 --> 00:03:45.559
+show every zero hundred hours UTC. We always start off with
+
+00:03:45.560 --> 00:03:49.119
+kind of climate crisis topics, because that is a climate
+
+00:03:49.120 --> 00:03:54.439
+crisis topic. But there's a sort of joy in that, because Kent
+
+00:03:54.440 --> 00:03:58.279
+Pitman, who Kent Pitman you're familiar with from the
+
+00:03:58.280 --> 00:04:03.599
+Pit Manual and so forth, writes a kind of climate crisis
+
+00:04:03.600 --> 00:04:07.599
+haiku, which we kind of lead out with, and we kind of go into
+
+00:04:07.600 --> 00:04:10.239
+the discussions there. Then obviously the show has- It's a
+
+00:04:10.240 --> 00:04:16.959
+highlight, not gonna lie. Yeah, yeah, I love it. I try and do
+
+00:04:16.960 --> 00:04:19.479
+these dramatic readings, but it's often stumble over.
+
+00:04:19.480 --> 00:04:23.719
+Actually, when Sacha was on, there was an auxiliary poem
+
+00:04:23.720 --> 00:04:27.959
+that happened, which was pretty interesting, too. What was
+
+00:04:27.960 --> 00:04:31.319
+I going to say? Then, I mean, the way we got named the Lispy
+
+00:04:31.320 --> 00:04:33.839
+Gopher Climate was because, broadly speaking, I like to
+
+00:04:33.840 --> 00:04:37.959
+talk about kind of lisp, and most of my writing for a long time
+
+00:04:37.960 --> 00:04:41.919
+was on the Gopher. Though I accidentally locked myself out
+
+00:04:41.920 --> 00:04:45.679
+of the Gopher recently, so there hasn't been an update there
+
+00:04:45.680 --> 00:04:52.159
+for a while. I'm kind of around the IRCs and Mastodon quite a
+
+00:04:52.160 --> 00:04:56.759
+bit now. Lisp, I like to use the term Lisp inclusively,
+
+00:04:56.760 --> 00:04:59.719
+basically. Obviously this talk, I was making the point that
+
+00:04:59.720 --> 00:05:05.519
+I just could go through a 1978 paper written in, and so pre-D
+
+00:05:05.520 --> 00:05:10.279
+machine inter-LISP, right? And it basically just worked in
+
+00:05:10.280 --> 00:05:13.439
+modern Emacs LISP. Somebody was pointing out to me, who
+
+00:05:13.440 --> 00:05:20.119
+pointed out where I was like, I don't know what PUT is in,
+
+00:05:20.120 --> 00:05:23.039
+in Emacs Lisp, and somebody was saying definitely there's
+
+00:05:23.040 --> 00:05:28.319
+put in Emacs Lisp. So I'm going to come back to the recording
+
+00:05:28.320 --> 00:05:31.199
+of this talk, and I'm going to just pinpoint this moment the
+
+00:05:31.200 --> 00:05:34.519
+next time somebody says, we need to modernize Lisp. I'm
+
+00:05:34.520 --> 00:05:37.799
+going to say, no, no, no, this is modern Emacs Lisp. You see,
+
+00:05:37.800 --> 00:05:42.359
+here's people talking about, yeah, I'm just tripping over,
+
+00:05:42.360 --> 00:05:45.519
+not tripping over, I'm amused by your phrase there, but
+
+00:05:45.520 --> 00:05:48.599
+that's exactly how I see it too. And I take your point utterly
+
+00:05:48.600 --> 00:05:53.359
+that, you know, this tradition of Lisp of carrying forward
+
+00:05:53.360 --> 00:05:57.799
+ideas. And, you know, we, you know, especially in Emacs, it
+
+00:05:57.800 --> 00:06:00.799
+really is like a brain trust, right? Buckets of knowledge of
+
+00:06:00.800 --> 00:06:04.399
+how to get some sort of work done, or, you know, how to work
+
+00:06:04.400 --> 00:06:08.919
+with some kind of code or some kind of data. Yeah, but I had a
+
+00:06:08.920 --> 00:06:12.079
+kind of, interesting experience with some great friends of
+
+00:06:12.080 --> 00:06:15.799
+mine, whom I love dearly. Vidak, if you're watching this,
+
+00:06:15.800 --> 00:06:21.559
+I'm gossiping about you people over in Australia there.
+
+NOTE Lisp already did it
+
+00:06:21.560 --> 00:06:25.439
+Where people come to you with really exciting ideas that
+
+00:06:25.440 --> 00:06:30.359
+seem to be very cutting edge and like, you know, very much the
+
+00:06:30.360 --> 00:06:33.559
+current talk of the day, like you can hear in other
+
+00:06:33.560 --> 00:06:36.119
+programming languages, and they're telling you how they
+
+00:06:36.120 --> 00:06:39.639
+think you might be able to do this in Lisp. And you have to say,
+
+00:06:39.640 --> 00:06:43.719
+well, you know, if we go back to the late 70s, where the Lisp
+
+00:06:43.720 --> 00:06:47.959
+community really kind of pioneered this topic already.
+
+00:06:47.960 --> 00:06:51.399
+Here's how we did it in the late 70s. And there's actually
+
+00:06:51.400 --> 00:06:56.439
+quite a kind of awkward, just kind of disjunction there. I
+
+00:06:56.440 --> 00:06:59.079
+mean, that's the thing, right? Where use of Emacs in
+
+00:06:59.080 --> 00:07:03.759
+particular use of Lisp in general will unravel somebody's
+
+00:07:03.760 --> 00:07:06.319
+whole big bag of wind that they've built up around why
+
+00:07:06.320 --> 00:07:10.439
+something has to be rebuilt and well right but that's just a
+
+00:07:10.440 --> 00:07:13.359
+function you know it's data so we'll probably just think
+
+00:07:13.360 --> 00:07:16.679
+about that as I don't know sitting in a variable.
+
+00:07:16.680 --> 00:07:21.359
+Oh, so that whole problem, like the elegance of a solution
+
+00:07:21.360 --> 00:07:25.959
+can entirely fall away once you fall back to an earlier way of
+
+00:07:25.960 --> 00:07:29.479
+thinking about it. And then, you know, look at the pieces
+
+00:07:29.480 --> 00:07:32.039
+you've carried forward the idea of the declarative
+
+00:07:32.040 --> 00:07:37.119
+language, right? Declaring user experience. Yeah. Once
+
+00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:41.999
+again, tangentially to, um, to the actual talk we've just
+
+00:07:42.000 --> 00:07:47.479
+watched, which I will try and follow up on as well. But one
+
+00:07:47.480 --> 00:07:51.919
+example was After watching me use the Common Lisp loop
+
+00:07:51.920 --> 00:07:55.999
+facility so much, Kent pointed out to me, hey, you know, why
+
+00:07:56.000 --> 00:08:01.719
+don't you try using Richard Waters' series iteration
+
+00:08:01.720 --> 00:08:05.799
+stuff, which was kind of lazy evaluation of series that
+
+00:08:05.800 --> 00:08:09.119
+Waters did. And so after criticizing Haskell for a long
+
+00:08:09.120 --> 00:08:12.879
+time, me kind of saying, hey, you know, I don't think this
+
+00:08:12.880 --> 00:08:16.519
+lazy evaluation is important. then Kent pointed out to me
+
+00:08:16.520 --> 00:08:22.399
+that, for example, the series, like what is it? AIM 1082 or
+
+00:08:22.400 --> 00:08:28.799
+something published in 1989 was Lazy Evaluation in LISP
+
+00:08:28.800 --> 00:08:33.639
+with series. And so I thought, well, once I realized that
+
+00:08:33.640 --> 00:08:37.879
+this was part of kind of almost classic LISP history to have
+
+00:08:37.880 --> 00:08:43.679
+lazy evaluation, I adopted series, I kind of had to rethink
+
+00:08:43.680 --> 00:08:47.799
+my LISP worldview to realize it did already include lazy
+
+00:08:47.800 --> 00:08:51.679
+evaluation, which I attributed to the late 80s. And then
+
+00:08:51.680 --> 00:08:55.239
+when I actually read a little bit further, lazy evaluation,
+
+00:08:55.240 --> 00:08:59.159
+depending on your research group, has been, was kind of
+
+00:08:59.160 --> 00:09:02.719
+established in the late 70s by Waters again, actually.
+
+00:09:02.720 --> 00:09:05.719
+Sorry for the anecdote, just kind of the interesting
+
+00:09:05.720 --> 00:09:11.159
+medley. Not at all.
+
+00:09:11.160 --> 00:09:17.919
+Yeah.
+
+00:09:17.920 --> 00:09:25.639
+Ellis over in the IRC has come up with a good slime about
+
+00:09:25.640 --> 00:09:33.339
+async. Oh, I see. So yeah,
+
+00:09:33.340 --> 00:09:38.199
+I guess that would work. I have to try that. OK, so you're just
+
+00:09:38.200 --> 00:09:42.679
+getting me reading this. They have had a stab at resolving
+
+00:09:42.680 --> 00:09:49.279
+our asynchronous calls thing more elegantly than me. Left
+
+00:09:49.280 --> 00:09:53.879
+as an exercise to the listener. It's one of the big virtues of
+
+00:09:53.880 --> 00:09:56.799
+something like a convention. It'll bring us together with
+
+00:09:56.800 --> 00:10:01.079
+other people that can kind of see past the boats in our eyes.
+
+00:10:01.080 --> 00:10:06.239
+Oh yeah, that's easy for me. Yeah, definitely. Hearing
+
+00:10:06.240 --> 00:10:10.279
+somebody else's kind of thought process from you and from
+
+00:10:10.280 --> 00:10:16.639
+just the past speaker who was Robin, I think, because this
+
+00:10:16.640 --> 00:10:19.519
+was in the morning for me, so I just kind of got up and caught
+
+00:10:19.520 --> 00:10:25.919
+some of Robin. Yeah, it's so great, kind of vicariously
+
+00:10:25.920 --> 00:10:30.559
+experiencing somebody else's Emacs usage and how it kind of
+
+00:10:30.560 --> 00:10:34.799
+subtly backs onto their own development flows. Yeah, so I
+
+00:10:34.800 --> 00:10:37.319
+really appreciate this talk. I'm constantly cribbing from
+
+00:10:37.320 --> 00:10:40.519
+everyone I meet. And yeah, this talk has been eye-popping,
+
+00:10:40.520 --> 00:10:43.599
+just watching you casually navigate Emacs, actually.
+
+NOTE IELM
+
+00:10:43.600 --> 00:10:51.519
+Yeah, it's cool. Yeah, I enjoyed discovering IELM mode.
+
+00:10:51.520 --> 00:10:54.959
+That was going to be my other question for people. Are there
+
+00:10:54.960 --> 00:10:59.439
+any IELM Power users around? I could really go for an
+
+00:10:59.440 --> 00:11:05.679
+EmacsConf talk on IELM mode. Aha, yes. Very good. Note
+
+00:11:05.680 --> 00:11:12.199
+taken. Yeah. So, just thoughts for next year? Oh, well, I
+
+00:11:12.200 --> 00:11:15.999
+kind of want to get back onto the MPV, but thank you so much for
+
+00:11:16.000 --> 00:11:22.039
+this. You are cmak in the IRC, right? I am Corwin, same as you.
+
+00:11:22.040 --> 00:11:26.159
+So you're Corwin. There's also cmak, and I guess there are a
+
+00:11:26.160 --> 00:11:28.719
+few other people. Sorry that I'm tripping over the
+
+00:11:28.720 --> 00:11:31.359
+different people here. But you're going to come on the Lispy
+
+00:11:31.360 --> 00:11:35.719
+Gopher Climate later. Sure, I'm happy to. That sounds
+
+00:11:35.720 --> 00:11:38.479
+like fun. I always got a million things to talk about me or an
+
+00:11:38.480 --> 00:11:42.399
+opinion on everything. But of course, my favorite thing to
+
+00:11:42.400 --> 00:11:48.359
+talk about is just the huge thanks that, you know, sharing
+
+00:11:48.360 --> 00:11:53.639
+that, the generosity or the, you know, my appreciation for
+
+00:11:53.640 --> 00:11:57.159
+you and all the other members of the Emacs community that
+
+00:11:57.160 --> 00:12:00.519
+create talks like this and make the conference and the rest
+
+00:12:00.520 --> 00:12:04.839
+of the community so rich. Well, yeah, and thank you for your
+
+00:12:04.840 --> 00:12:09.759
+work. Sacha is just saying over in Lambda that when I say I
+
+00:12:09.760 --> 00:12:13.039
+want someone to give the talk, this means I'm volunteering
+
+00:12:13.040 --> 00:12:17.079
+to give the IELM talk. That's what I wrote down. Oh, yeah. I've
+
+00:12:17.080 --> 00:12:19.479
+been working for Sacha. I mean, helping Sacha with this
+
+00:12:19.480 --> 00:12:23.919
+conference for years. I know. No, I'm kidding. That would be
+
+00:12:23.920 --> 00:12:28.559
+cool. I will absolutely go to your ielm talk. I make a lot of use
+
+00:12:28.560 --> 00:12:32.879
+of that and could do more. Yeah, we're meant to suddenly
+
+NOTE Q: Are we going to get a McCLIM LambdaMOO client?
+
+00:12:32.880 --> 00:12:36.639
+stop. But a guest over in Lambda also said, are we going to get
+
+00:12:36.640 --> 00:12:41.239
+a McCLIM LambdaMOO client? And I actually had all my kind of
+
+00:12:41.240 --> 00:12:44.519
+Moo stuff I'd written in Common Lisp, which I was thinking of
+
+00:12:44.520 --> 00:12:47.639
+just kind of jettisoning. But you're right, I should make
+
+00:12:47.640 --> 00:12:51.479
+that into a client for Common Lisp. Anyway, I'm going to hang
+
+00:12:51.480 --> 00:12:55.839
+up so I can keep watching the conference sounds good so we'll
+
+00:12:55.840 --> 00:12:58.399
+just cut away with the stream throw some music and a
+
+00:12:58.400 --> 00:13:02.799
+countdown uh back on give us just a second to make that on bbb
+
+00:13:02.800 --> 00:13:05.359
+and then i'll give you the big thumbs up thank you thank you
+
+00:13:05.360 --> 00:13:08.359
+recording here we'll get it all posted up uh right next to
+
+00:13:08.360 --> 00:13:09.839
+your awesome pre-recorded talk
+
+00:13:09.840 --> 00:13:17.159
+thanks again like it's been fun chatting and uh Yeah,
+
+00:13:17.160 --> 00:13:20.799
+definitely seeing you around in the conference channel off
+
+00:13:20.800 --> 00:13:23.879
+off season. So to speak, you're like, you're totally
+
+00:13:23.880 --> 00:13:26.679
+welcome to use our chat like it to the extent you need to IRC
+
+00:13:26.680 --> 00:13:29.039
+channel that's been working on great for me. It's fun to fun
+
+00:13:29.040 --> 00:13:30.639
+to see it.
+
+00:13:30.640 --> 00:13:39.319
+All right, I'm gonna hang up this thing. All right. Happy day
+
+00:13:39.320 --> 00:13:44.119
+flowy. Sorry, I mean, screwlisp. Oh my gosh, I have
+
+00:13:44.120 --> 00:13:54.360
+conference brain. Bye bye. All right, later, later.
diff --git a/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-org-update--the-future-of-org--ihor-radchenko--answers.vtt b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-org-update--the-future-of-org--ihor-radchenko--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..a32b0da2
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-org-update--the-future-of-org--ihor-radchenko--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,1294 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.039
+And I believe we are live. Okay. Hi again, Ihor. How are you
+
+00:00:05.040 --> 00:00:09.359
+doing? Ready to answer questions, right? Yes. Ready to
+
+00:00:09.360 --> 00:00:13.039
+answer questions and all this. I mean, ready for
+
+00:00:13.040 --> 00:00:14.999
+everything. It's not just a question, it's the maintenance
+
+00:00:15.000 --> 00:00:21.679
+that is now lying in front of you. So... Oh, that's not the end
+
+00:00:21.680 --> 00:00:25.159
+of the day. I mean, it's a rare thing indeed, because you
+
+00:00:25.160 --> 00:00:27.439
+might not be able to see it on BBB. I'm checking in, but we've
+
+00:00:27.440 --> 00:00:30.599
+got Ihor, obviously, but we also have Bastien and also
+
+00:00:30.600 --> 00:00:34.199
+Carsten in the room. So, we have three maintainers of Org
+
+00:00:34.200 --> 00:00:36.119
+Mode right there in the room to answer all your questions.
+
+00:00:36.120 --> 00:00:40.759
+So, it's a rare occasion that I invite all of you to seize the
+
+00:00:40.760 --> 00:00:44.679
+day on this. Ihor, do you have anything maybe to say before we
+
+00:00:44.680 --> 00:00:49.599
+start moving into the questions? Well, I hope that I said
+
+00:00:49.600 --> 00:00:51.759
+everything I wanted. Hello, Bastien. during the
+
+00:00:51.760 --> 00:00:55.519
+presentation. Well, actually, I can say a lot more, like
+
+00:00:55.520 --> 00:01:01.439
+infinitely, because when I first recorded it, it was like
+
+00:01:01.440 --> 00:01:05.999
+one hour. So yeah. I mean, you did a, I'll just let you know,
+
+00:01:06.000 --> 00:01:08.359
+you did a fine job condensing everything in just 40 minutes.
+
+00:01:08.360 --> 00:01:14.079
+So congratulations on this. Yeah, it's, yeah, usually one
+
+00:01:14.080 --> 00:01:18.039
+minute per slide is the best way. Otherwise, it's something
+
+00:01:18.040 --> 00:01:22.319
+that's wrong with this presentation. Right, so just moving
+
+00:01:22.320 --> 00:01:25.519
+into the question, and by the way we've got 20 minutes, we
+
+00:01:25.520 --> 00:01:27.799
+might be able to chat a little more if Bastien wants to say
+
+00:01:27.800 --> 00:01:29.919
+something as well and Carsten, you know, feel free to
+
+00:01:29.920 --> 00:01:33.119
+intervene at any point during the questions if you've got
+
+00:01:33.120 --> 00:01:35.279
+anything to contribute or our voice will just show the
+
+00:01:35.280 --> 00:01:37.879
+breeze later on. So the first question is relating to
+
+00:01:37.880 --> 00:01:41.479
+something you said about 10 minutes 34 that might speak more
+
+00:01:41.480 --> 00:01:42.685
+to you than to me.
+
+NOTE Q: Is the track-changes item about the org-element parser?
+
+00:01:42.686 --> 00:01:45.159
+Is the track changes item about the org
+
+00:01:45.160 --> 00:01:51.519
+element parser Yes, the track changes is a new library that
+
+00:01:51.520 --> 00:01:58.959
+helps to receive changes in buffers incrementally. So like
+
+00:01:58.960 --> 00:02:03.079
+you can, it has API where you can request what changes
+
+00:02:03.080 --> 00:02:07.999
+happened in buffer since last request, chunk by chunk. And
+
+00:02:08.000 --> 00:02:14.119
+in org mode, in org element parser, we do pretty much the same
+
+00:02:14.120 --> 00:02:19.879
+thing, but using timers. So this track changes library
+
+00:02:19.880 --> 00:02:25.159
+should improve things, first, because it's a bit faster,
+
+00:02:25.160 --> 00:02:29.279
+because we don't need to conjure every single change, and
+
+00:02:29.280 --> 00:02:32.119
+track changes can agglomerate changes into chunks much
+
+00:02:32.120 --> 00:02:36.039
+more efficiently. And second, it's a built-in library, so
+
+00:02:36.040 --> 00:02:40.439
+it's a good idea to use built-in library when there is such an
+
+00:02:40.440 --> 00:02:45.879
+option, instead of running out our own implementation.
+
+00:02:45.880 --> 00:02:49.399
+Definitely. Moving on to the second question, although I'm
+
+00:02:49.400 --> 00:02:52.664
+not sure it refers that much to what you can do.
+
+NOTE Q: Could you please keep IRC alive? I prefer it to Matrix
+
+00:02:52.665 --> 00:02:57.759
+Could you please keep IRC alive? And I prefer it to Matrix. I mean,
+
+00:02:57.760 --> 00:03:03.239
+you did talk about IRC, right? But did we talk about phasing
+
+00:03:03.240 --> 00:03:08.799
+it out? So I try to be live on IRC, but I use mobile client for
+
+00:03:08.800 --> 00:03:12.999
+IRC to keep connected. So I usually connected, I usually see
+
+00:03:13.000 --> 00:03:15.519
+messages, except certain times when I don't have mobile
+
+00:03:15.520 --> 00:03:19.239
+internet. Right. Okay. That's why many people will tell
+
+00:03:19.240 --> 00:03:23.399
+you, you need a bouncer and all this, but the IRC crowd is very
+
+00:03:23.400 --> 00:03:33.679
+loud. I just don't know a good bouncer. I don't have a good
+
+00:03:33.680 --> 00:03:36.399
+setup for a bouncer. Okay.
+
+00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:41.239
+Personally, I use WeChat usually to stay connected to
+
+00:03:41.240 --> 00:03:44.119
+email. It's obviously a client for IRC, but it also allows
+
+00:03:44.120 --> 00:03:47.959
+you to, you know, you can keep it as a bouncer, but it's not in
+
+00:03:47.960 --> 00:03:54.159
+Emacs. It is. I don't have a computer that is running 24
+
+00:03:54.160 --> 00:03:56.839
+hours, so. I mean, that's the thing. I do have a server to run
+
+00:03:56.840 --> 00:04:02.239
+it off. All right, moving on to the third question. That is
+
+00:04:02.240 --> 00:04:06.559
+what is running 24 hours. Right. Okay. All right. Moving on
+
+00:04:06.560 --> 00:04:07.987
+to the third question.
+
+NOTE Q: Is there any plan for adding support for other modalities of notes like handwritten,  audio, etc.?
+
+00:04:07.988 --> 00:04:09.519
+Is there any plan for adding support
+
+00:04:09.520 --> 00:04:11.959
+for other modalities of note-like, handwritten, audio,
+
+00:04:11.960 --> 00:04:14.919
+and et cetera? Would that be interesting to the community?
+
+00:04:14.920 --> 00:04:20.319
+It will definitely be useful for me. I didn't. Okay. So this
+
+00:04:20.320 --> 00:04:25.399
+is not the idea I hear frequently. So there's no plan for such
+
+00:04:25.400 --> 00:04:29.959
+thing. Modalities of notes like handwritten audio. I think
+
+00:04:29.960 --> 00:04:34.519
+John Kitchin did some handwritten note.
+
+00:04:34.520 --> 00:04:46.119
+John Kitchin. Yeah. And for audio, I think as well. I. So
+
+00:04:46.120 --> 00:04:48.999
+basically you can use attachments, you can use images to
+
+00:04:49.000 --> 00:04:54.279
+paste you. I think John Kitchin even use it to automatically
+
+00:04:54.280 --> 00:04:58.519
+recognize notes.
+
+00:04:58.520 --> 00:05:05.359
+I think the previous speaker was talking about a whisper to
+
+00:05:05.360 --> 00:05:10.399
+recognize voice. Right.
+
+00:05:10.400 --> 00:05:13.959
+Otherwise there is no special workflow and I'm not even sure
+
+00:05:13.960 --> 00:05:16.919
+what we can do to support this workflow specifically.
+
+00:05:16.920 --> 00:05:22.759
+Yeah, it definitely feels like Org Mode is a good format for
+
+00:05:22.760 --> 00:05:25.719
+textual stuff, and a lot of things are textual. I mean,
+
+00:05:25.720 --> 00:05:29.679
+that's the whole philosophy behind Emacs. But when it comes
+
+00:05:29.680 --> 00:05:34.439
+to voice, it feels like it's... I think the person asking the
+
+00:05:34.440 --> 00:05:36.799
+question probably needs to specify what they mean by voice.
+
+00:05:36.800 --> 00:05:40.279
+Is it just raw note-taking, as Blaine mentioned in a
+
+00:05:40.280 --> 00:05:43.199
+previous talk, or is it something else? Feel free to add up to
+
+00:05:43.200 --> 00:05:46.759
+the question and we'll return to it later on.
+
+00:05:46.760 --> 00:05:51.919
+I think this is kind of related to drag and drop. I think you
+
+00:05:51.920 --> 00:05:57.279
+would like to be able to have an audio file and drop it in and
+
+00:05:57.280 --> 00:06:00.879
+have it translated to text. I think that would be an
+
+00:06:00.880 --> 00:06:03.959
+interesting API to do this, right? So that you can integrate
+
+00:06:03.960 --> 00:06:07.599
+it into something like drag and drop. I think I'm going to
+
+00:06:07.600 --> 00:06:12.079
+talk with supporters in since overnight. So we have, I
+
+00:06:12.080 --> 00:06:14.959
+believe what constant is alluring to is the fact that not
+
+00:06:14.960 --> 00:06:17.679
+just pictures but imagine if you were bringing in an audio
+
+00:06:17.680 --> 00:06:20.399
+file maybe you could, I mean I'm not sure it would work with
+
+00:06:20.400 --> 00:06:24.279
+whisper but. transcribing it in a way and inserting it as
+
+00:06:24.280 --> 00:06:27.079
+text. Although I'm not sure how we would be able to do this,
+
+00:06:27.080 --> 00:06:30.159
+but it's an interesting idea though. It can work if you write
+
+00:06:30.160 --> 00:06:35.359
+some kind of automatic speech recognition. It's not really
+
+00:06:35.360 --> 00:06:39.479
+a job for work. If you have some library that can transform
+
+00:06:39.480 --> 00:06:43.959
+audio to text or transform image to text in Elixir, then we
+
+00:06:43.960 --> 00:06:47.599
+can happily use that library. Definitely, but I can tell you
+
+00:06:47.600 --> 00:06:50.119
+that Whisper is not something that works very quickly. We do
+
+00:06:50.120 --> 00:06:53.479
+use Whisper AI to transcribe some of the talks that we
+
+00:06:53.480 --> 00:06:56.879
+broadcast during EmacsConf, and I can tell you it takes a
+
+00:06:56.880 --> 00:06:59.359
+fair while. If you have a video that lasts one minute, it's
+
+00:06:59.360 --> 00:07:03.439
+definitely going to take more than one minute to try to
+
+00:07:03.440 --> 00:07:09.239
+transcribe the video. We had to wait for a few years until it
+
+00:07:09.240 --> 00:07:12.679
+passed. Probably, but it's good to have the ID now so
+
+00:07:12.680 --> 00:07:17.479
+that we are ready eventually to do this. There is the new
+
+00:07:17.480 --> 00:07:23.319
+asynchronous IP. It's called org-pending. It's work in
+
+00:07:23.320 --> 00:07:29.599
+progress. And that basically allows to defer inserting
+
+00:07:29.600 --> 00:07:34.199
+text into our buffers until later. And while it's being
+
+00:07:34.200 --> 00:07:37.719
+worked on, it will basically highlight the place where it
+
+00:07:37.720 --> 00:07:43.159
+will be inserted. And you can click on it, see the progress,
+
+00:07:43.160 --> 00:07:49.519
+and stuff like that. So this is for Babylon, but I imagine for
+
+00:07:49.520 --> 00:07:56.159
+things like voice recognition, it can also work.
+
+00:07:56.160 --> 00:07:59.799
+All right, what I suggest we do, we're going to fill the two
+
+00:07:59.800 --> 00:08:02.279
+questions that we have now, and then it'd be nice if we could
+
+00:08:02.280 --> 00:08:05.399
+hear a word from Bastien and from Carsten as well, because
+
+00:08:05.400 --> 00:08:08.719
+it's rare to have all of you three in a room, and it would be
+
+00:08:08.720 --> 00:08:11.439
+nice maybe to chat a little bit about this. So quickly, with
+
+NOTE Q: WRT IETF standardization, have you looked at Karl Voit's OrgDown?
+
+00:08:11.440 --> 00:08:14.199
+the last two questions, with regards to IETF
+
+00:08:14.200 --> 00:08:17.039
+standardization, have you looked at Karl Voit's Orgdown?
+
+00:08:17.040 --> 00:08:24.919
+So, of course, there was a discussion on the mailing list,
+
+00:08:24.920 --> 00:08:28.319
+and there was a lot of pushback to this idea, especially to
+
+00:08:28.320 --> 00:08:33.399
+simplify the syntax. So, in short, the conclusion from
+
+00:08:33.400 --> 00:08:37.799
+there is we want the full syntax, we don't want to have things
+
+00:08:37.800 --> 00:08:43.079
+like different versus Org mode. But for the syntax, we may
+
+00:08:43.080 --> 00:08:49.279
+specify different like coverage. So for example, it's a
+
+00:08:49.280 --> 00:08:53.119
+minimal, it has a minimal support so people can, there's
+
+00:08:53.120 --> 00:08:59.079
+some parsers or apps can support just whatever curl calls
+
+00:08:59.080 --> 00:09:04.239
+fork down like level zero or level one or whatever. But the
+
+00:09:04.240 --> 00:09:10.079
+key point is, when it goes to IETF, we want to have the full
+
+00:09:10.080 --> 00:09:13.119
+syntax. We don't want to split it into pieces.
+
+00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:18.959
+Makes a lot of sense. All right. And the last question we have
+
+NOTE Q: About a year ago we discussed switching GNU documentation from texinfo to org. Do you still consider this?
+
+00:09:18.960 --> 00:09:22.359
+for now. About a year ago, we discussed switching new
+
+00:09:22.360 --> 00:09:26.239
+documentation from texinfo to org. Do you still consider
+
+00:09:26.240 --> 00:09:30.879
+this? definitely contributed to some of the ideas about
+
+00:09:30.880 --> 00:09:34.479
+syntax. For example, the inline special blocks, I think
+
+00:09:34.480 --> 00:09:41.639
+about them with this in mind, so that, so basically, one
+
+00:09:41.640 --> 00:09:45.999
+clarity, we don't want to complicate our syntax, we don't
+
+00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:50.319
+want to have special built-in support for variable, or I
+
+00:09:50.320 --> 00:09:54.319
+don't know, function name, or all this kind of specific
+
+00:09:54.320 --> 00:10:00.959
+markup. But instead, the idea is to have some generic custom
+
+00:10:00.960 --> 00:10:06.479
+syntax. And then when it goes to software manuals, we want
+
+00:10:06.480 --> 00:10:09.759
+some like optional library that will provide certain
+
+00:10:09.760 --> 00:10:12.439
+syntax extensions, like inline special block for
+
+00:10:12.440 --> 00:10:15.479
+variables, inline special block for acronym and stuff like
+
+00:10:15.480 --> 00:10:20.999
+that. Then people who want to use Org mode for manuals should
+
+00:10:21.000 --> 00:10:26.119
+be able to use that new markup to achieve what they want.
+
+00:10:26.120 --> 00:10:34.359
+That's a distant idea. But the key point is we want to keep org
+
+00:10:34.360 --> 00:10:39.039
+mode as generic syntax. We don't want to specialize it for
+
+00:10:39.040 --> 00:10:43.799
+software specifically. But generic in the sense that it can
+
+00:10:43.800 --> 00:10:44.759
+be used for software as well.
+
+00:10:44.760 --> 00:10:50.959
+All right, well thank you so much for your answer here and
+
+00:10:50.960 --> 00:10:56.399
+that was very enlightening but I'd first like to give the mic
+
+00:10:56.400 --> 00:11:00.359
+to Bastien who might need to leave shortly and I just want to
+
+00:11:00.360 --> 00:11:03.559
+make sure that you get to chat a little bit Bastien because
+
+00:11:03.560 --> 00:11:06.199
+it's a big thing we've had you as a maintainer for however
+
+00:11:06.200 --> 00:11:13.199
+long now? Well, officially, it was 14 years. But obviously,
+
+00:11:13.200 --> 00:11:17.999
+EHO has been doing much of the groundwork as a de facto
+
+00:11:18.000 --> 00:11:20.239
+maintainer for several years now, I believe for three or
+
+00:11:20.240 --> 00:11:28.679
+four years. And before Before IHO, there was Nicolas Goaziou,
+
+00:11:28.680 --> 00:11:33.679
+who's doing a lot of work. Also Kyle Meyer, who is still
+
+00:11:33.680 --> 00:11:40.599
+active, backporting Emacs changes. So
+
+00:11:40.600 --> 00:11:46.039
+it's a relief that we can do things properly, that I didn't
+
+00:11:46.040 --> 00:11:51.439
+give up before someone could really step up. I'm glad we're
+
+00:11:51.440 --> 00:11:57.679
+doing this. And I'm glad there was so much help during the
+
+00:11:57.680 --> 00:12:01.959
+time when I was not available enough. Well, thank you,
+
+00:12:01.960 --> 00:12:05.039
+Bastien. I think on behalf of the community, I think I'd like
+
+00:12:05.040 --> 00:12:07.719
+to extend a big thank you for all the work you've done
+
+00:12:07.720 --> 00:12:12.279
+throughout those 14 years. And if we pull the rope just a
+
+00:12:12.280 --> 00:12:15.719
+little more, before those 14 years, we had someone else
+
+00:12:15.720 --> 00:12:18.199
+maintaining Org Mode, well, not actually just maintaining
+
+00:12:18.200 --> 00:12:20.879
+Org Mode, but also inventing it. Carsten, how are you doing?
+
+00:12:20.880 --> 00:12:26.799
+I am. I'm doing fine. A really great opportunity to be here.
+
+NOTE Community
+
+00:12:26.800 --> 00:12:31.279
+First, I would like to start by indeed thanking Bastien
+
+00:12:31.280 --> 00:12:34.839
+because, I mean, he was not only maintainer after I stopped,
+
+00:12:34.840 --> 00:12:37.839
+but already during the time I was there, he was one of the key
+
+00:12:37.840 --> 00:12:40.559
+contributors who helped the project along for quite a bit.
+
+00:12:40.560 --> 00:12:44.759
+So it's an incredible investment of time and energy that
+
+00:12:44.760 --> 00:12:48.399
+Basquiat has shown, which is really fantastic. And now I see
+
+00:12:48.400 --> 00:12:52.479
+Ihor taking over with, as far as I can see, deep knowledge and
+
+00:12:52.480 --> 00:12:56.199
+all the right ideas about philosophy. So I'm really
+
+00:12:56.200 --> 00:13:00.039
+impressed. For me, this is really totally amazing because I
+
+00:13:00.040 --> 00:13:04.719
+started hacking this more than 20 years ago. And to just see
+
+00:13:04.720 --> 00:13:07.679
+that there's a community that has sustained itself with the
+
+00:13:07.680 --> 00:13:11.439
+help of new maintainers for such a long time makes me
+
+00:13:11.440 --> 00:13:13.999
+extremely grateful. So thank you very much to all of you.
+
+00:13:14.000 --> 00:13:20.679
+Okay, well, amazing. I mean, I'm a little flustered, I must
+
+00:13:20.680 --> 00:13:23.559
+admit, because I'm seeing three players of the community in
+
+00:13:23.560 --> 00:13:27.639
+a way that have kept me busy with very fun stuff to do with Org
+
+00:13:27.640 --> 00:13:30.999
+Mode, and it's really amazing to see three giants of the
+
+00:13:31.000 --> 00:13:34.239
+community being able to maintain Org Mode for so long and
+
+00:13:34.240 --> 00:13:38.199
+contribute so much to it. So, again, thanks to all of you
+
+00:13:38.200 --> 00:13:40.981
+three. I must also admit that it's really amazing for me
+
+00:13:40.982 --> 00:13:45.442
+that all of you three stress the importance of the community
+
+00:13:45.440 --> 00:13:48.479
+a whole lot, and I know that Bastien, you've talked about
+
+00:13:48.480 --> 00:13:51.359
+maintaining software last year at Emacs Confs, and even
+
+00:13:51.360 --> 00:13:55.519
+today, during the one-minute little chat that you did in
+
+00:13:55.520 --> 00:13:59.279
+Ihor's chat, you stressed the importance of maintenance and to
+
+00:13:59.280 --> 00:14:06.559
+be future-oriented about it. I'm kind of wondering, why do
+
+00:14:06.560 --> 00:14:12.679
+you think community is so important to Org Mode in general?
+
+00:14:12.680 --> 00:14:14.679
+Like, obviously we've talked about maintainers and we've
+
+00:14:14.680 --> 00:14:16.879
+talked about volunteers, but don't you think there's
+
+00:14:16.880 --> 00:14:19.159
+something more about community in general, about Org Mode
+
+00:14:19.160 --> 00:14:20.950
+and the fact that we are all taking notes
+
+00:14:20.951 --> 00:14:34.799
+and doing so much with it? Yeah, are you asking me?
+
+00:14:34.800 --> 00:14:40.640
+I remember Carsten made his point during the Google talk about
+
+00:14:40.680 --> 00:14:45.159
+the core idea of Org Mode, about mixing note taking and to-do
+
+00:14:45.160 --> 00:14:49.959
+manager. It was really powerful. And also in the same
+
+00:14:49.960 --> 00:14:53.399
+presentation that 98%
+
+00:14:53.400 --> 00:14:57.047
+of the features were organically developed as ideas
+
+00:14:57.048 --> 00:15:00.668
+by the community. And Ihor just said the same today
+
+00:15:00.669 --> 00:15:03.589
+in the presentation, like most of the features,
+
+00:15:03.590 --> 00:15:06.875
+not only the ideas, but also the code came from
+
+00:15:06.876 --> 00:15:11.350
+the communities. So that's why the community is so rich.
+
+00:15:11.351 --> 00:15:12.759
+And another thing is
+
+00:15:12.760 --> 00:15:16.919
+also that I do remember. Now everyone is having kind of an open
+
+00:15:16.920 --> 00:15:20.799
+source fatigue and questions about how is it okay to be
+
+00:15:20.800 --> 00:15:24.039
+maintainer? How do you keep open source project
+
+00:15:24.040 --> 00:15:28.199
+sustainable? And I'm saying open source on purpose with
+
+00:15:28.200 --> 00:15:33.119
+this audience to see beyond just the small GNU project and
+
+00:15:33.120 --> 00:15:36.359
+the small free software community. So at large, there is
+
+00:15:36.360 --> 00:15:40.679
+some sense of fatigue. I remember that the Org community
+
+00:15:40.680 --> 00:15:44.079
+right from the beginning had a reputation of being an
+
+00:15:44.080 --> 00:15:48.839
+amazing community and I think it
+
+00:15:48.840 --> 00:15:54.879
+continues to be one and I'm amazed that sometimes when I'm,
+
+00:15:54.880 --> 00:15:59.199
+you know, sometimes I'm, I have this fatigue of moderating
+
+00:15:59.200 --> 00:16:01.839
+emails from the mailing list, for example, and filtering
+
+00:16:01.840 --> 00:16:06.199
+out spam. And then I go on the list and I read some emails and I
+
+00:16:06.200 --> 00:16:09.536
+feel like, okay, this is still there. And it's really
+
+00:16:09.537 --> 00:16:14.559
+a boost of energy. I wish that this repetition outside Org Mode,
+
+00:16:14.560 --> 00:16:19.239
+outside Emacs, of being a nice welcoming,
+
+00:16:19.240 --> 00:16:22.559
+community of knowledgeable people talking of things
+
+00:16:22.560 --> 00:16:25.319
+and learning from each other that we can
+
+00:16:25.320 --> 00:16:30.159
+keep up with this pace. Yeah, maybe if I
+
+00:16:30.160 --> 00:16:32.919
+can just add to this, I think you're making an extremely
+
+00:16:32.920 --> 00:16:36.679
+important point, Pascal. I think that was really, from the
+
+00:16:36.680 --> 00:16:39.639
+beginning, something that was really special. And I think
+
+00:16:39.640 --> 00:16:45.639
+the reason why we all community still works is that first me,
+
+00:16:45.640 --> 00:16:49.239
+but in particular also the two of you and more people have
+
+00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:53.359
+been able to keep up the friendly spirit in this community.
+
+00:16:53.360 --> 00:16:57.239
+Because we had very few fights on the mailing list. There
+
+00:16:57.240 --> 00:17:02.879
+were a few at some point, we had a few contributors with a
+
+00:17:02.880 --> 00:17:06.719
+little bit of fights. And I remember that I, for example, had
+
+00:17:06.720 --> 00:17:10.159
+to invest a lot of time to keep that one under control, but I
+
+00:17:10.160 --> 00:17:14.199
+think it was totally worth it because as a group, as a whole, I
+
+00:17:14.200 --> 00:17:18.679
+think it was really fantastic. Our friendly people
+
+00:17:18.680 --> 00:17:21.719
+always were, and I think that has spurred all the
+
+00:17:21.720 --> 00:17:22.640
+contributions that we had. Because
+
+00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:25.542
+if you are in a toxic environment, you will
+
+00:17:25.543 --> 00:17:29.458
+not be willing to stay and to invest all their time. And if you
+
+00:17:29.708 --> 00:17:32.291
+are in an appreciative environment where people support
+
+00:17:32.292 --> 00:17:35.191
+each other, it's a completely different game. So I really
+
+00:17:35.192 --> 00:17:38.566
+think that Org Mode is a great example for open source
+
+00:17:38.567 --> 00:17:43.774
+projects that many other communities can learn from.
+
+00:17:43.775 --> 00:17:52.441
+If I may just interject for a second, because we need to go
+
+00:17:52.442 --> 00:17:55.441
+into the next chat for the live stream. But as usual, I invite
+
+00:17:55.442 --> 00:17:57.524
+you, if you're interested with the discussion, we are
+
+00:17:57.525 --> 00:18:01.482
+staying on BBB, asking questions to Bastien, to Ihor and
+
+00:18:01.483 --> 00:18:04.316
+to Carsten. So feel free to join on BBB and chat with them
+
+00:18:04.317 --> 00:18:07.857
+live. The stream will be moving on to the next chat, but we
+
+00:18:07.858 --> 00:18:10.566
+will be recording the Q&A and posting it afterwards on
+
+00:18:10.567 --> 00:18:13.441
+emacsconf. So, I'll use the opportunity to thank you again,
+
+00:18:13.442 --> 00:18:18.941
+all three, for taking part in this EmacsConf, and enjoy the
+
+00:18:18.942 --> 00:18:27.482
+discussion, and we'll see you later! Thank you, bye bye! So,
+
+00:18:27.483 --> 00:18:31.274
+yeah, what I was starting to say actually is I feel that the
+
+00:18:31.275 --> 00:18:35.024
+Org Mode community and to the big extent the Emacs community
+
+00:18:35.000 --> 00:18:38.679
+is a bit like research in the early days when there was a bunch
+
+00:18:38.680 --> 00:18:43.959
+of enthusiasts who just exchanged mails together and tried
+
+00:18:43.960 --> 00:18:49.159
+to find out something new. And there was like no feeling of
+
+00:18:49.160 --> 00:18:52.719
+competition or too much competition at that time. Unlike
+
+00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:58.759
+now when we like we all rise for funding and stuff. So it's,
+
+00:18:58.760 --> 00:19:02.199
+it's really, it's really nice to, to, to have communities
+
+00:19:02.200 --> 00:19:05.919
+that has the spirit and they hope it can keep the spirit in
+
+00:19:05.920 --> 00:19:08.279
+future as well.
+
+00:19:08.280 --> 00:19:14.599
+Yeah. Yeah. I thought I'm very optimistic after. So I mean,
+
+00:19:14.600 --> 00:19:18.679
+actually had not been reading the mailing list for quite a
+
+00:19:18.680 --> 00:19:23.039
+while, but I started to read it again a little while ago and I
+
+00:19:23.040 --> 00:19:26.719
+could just see you also working on it and see how everything
+
+00:19:26.720 --> 00:19:30.919
+was going. That made me extremely happy to see that and made
+
+00:19:30.920 --> 00:19:37.679
+me very proud that this is still ongoing.
+
+00:19:37.680 --> 00:19:42.799
+I was interested about your point about the tables with
+
+00:19:42.800 --> 00:19:49.079
+multi-lines. My unsolicited advice is don't do it, because
+
+00:19:49.080 --> 00:19:52.639
+I think it's going to be a mess. Which I think is reflected
+
+00:19:52.640 --> 00:19:56.039
+also by you saying that nobody has a good idea on how to do
+
+00:19:56.040 --> 00:20:01.079
+this. I have certainly thought about it. It is requested so
+
+00:20:01.080 --> 00:20:04.599
+often. It's requested so often that it feels like it would be
+
+00:20:04.600 --> 00:20:07.959
+nice to come out with something. The question is, it is what?
+
+00:20:07.960 --> 00:20:11.399
+Yeah, that's a big question. Because I don't always ask
+
+00:20:11.400 --> 00:20:15.919
+eDocs, for example, and they do have multi line cells in
+
+00:20:15.920 --> 00:20:21.279
+tables, but that syntax is so ugly. Yes. Yeah, no, exactly. I
+
+00:20:21.280 --> 00:20:28.719
+think this is a problem and the question is, how far do you
+
+00:20:28.720 --> 00:20:33.639
+want to develop or want to be a completely full authoring
+
+00:20:33.640 --> 00:20:35.839
+system in the sense that you have all these options there
+
+00:20:35.840 --> 00:20:39.999
+because I think to me, the Org Mode tables have a specific
+
+00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:42.759
+application. They have this fast way of building
+
+00:20:42.760 --> 00:20:46.079
+something. And if I would have to go and build a hugely
+
+00:20:46.080 --> 00:20:50.279
+complicated table with different numbers of columns and
+
+00:20:50.280 --> 00:20:53.959
+columns going away and appearing further down the table, so
+
+00:20:53.960 --> 00:20:56.639
+I would probably go somewhere else. So for me, this seems to
+
+00:20:56.640 --> 00:21:00.319
+be overkill. So I don't want to curb anybody's enthusiasm.
+
+00:21:00.320 --> 00:21:04.919
+But I think it's really important to keep to keep the kind of
+
+00:21:04.920 --> 00:21:11.199
+functionality that it has. It's a very easy use and quick
+
+00:21:11.200 --> 00:21:15.879
+ability to do something interesting that I think is more
+
+00:21:15.880 --> 00:21:23.319
+important. There could be reasons to not do something. So
+
+00:21:23.320 --> 00:21:28.399
+again, the thing is, we don't have a good idea. But what I know
+
+00:21:28.400 --> 00:21:32.319
+100% is that we are not going to give up the existing syntax.
+
+00:21:32.320 --> 00:21:38.839
+Yeah, for sure. So even if you come up with something good,
+
+00:21:38.840 --> 00:21:42.279
+the existing syntax will remain working. And if people who
+
+00:21:42.280 --> 00:21:46.159
+need to use simple tables, they should remain possible in
+
+00:21:46.160 --> 00:21:52.759
+exactly the same way. But I know many people struggle and try
+
+00:21:52.760 --> 00:21:55.839
+in LaTeX and other workarounds just to create more complex
+
+00:21:55.840 --> 00:22:01.039
+tables. So there's clearly a demand. I think this is related
+
+00:22:01.040 --> 00:22:04.439
+to the other question that you asked earlier. I think it's
+
+00:22:04.440 --> 00:22:06.639
+related to the question about the different parsers. And
+
+00:22:06.640 --> 00:22:09.999
+then, of course, the way the tables are implemented now is by
+
+00:22:10.000 --> 00:22:11.944
+basically just looking at what's around you
+
+00:22:11.945 --> 00:22:13.484
+and doing the right things with
+
+00:22:13.485 --> 00:22:20.479
+this regular expression-based part of
+
+00:22:20.480 --> 00:22:24.279
+the parser. And you probably would have to fully use the
+
+00:22:24.280 --> 00:22:28.839
+other parts and to do all the changes in the formal structure
+
+00:22:28.840 --> 00:22:31.559
+in order to do something like this. So I have to be honest that
+
+00:22:31.560 --> 00:22:35.559
+I don't understand this well enough to really have a
+
+00:22:35.560 --> 00:22:39.679
+meaningful idea about it. Not only that, we'll also need to
+
+00:22:39.680 --> 00:22:42.799
+rewrite the spreadsheet functionality because it is
+
+00:22:42.800 --> 00:22:47.679
+completely using regular expressions. Exactly. Not only
+
+00:22:47.680 --> 00:22:50.639
+idea is missing that the roadmap will be very complicated if
+
+00:22:50.640 --> 00:22:57.519
+you get there. Yeah. I mean, I do remember. Yeah, go ahead.
+
+00:22:57.520 --> 00:23:03.359
+Yeah, sorry. I do remember Richard Stallman saying that
+
+00:23:03.360 --> 00:23:09.759
+Org Mode was doing too much. So my answer was just, coming from
+
+00:23:09.760 --> 00:23:14.159
+the inventor of Emacs, I took it as a compliment for Org Mode.
+
+00:23:14.160 --> 00:23:19.319
+But of course, that was just humor. And I agree that the
+
+00:23:19.320 --> 00:23:24.279
+simple things should keep being simple. And I like the
+
+00:23:24.280 --> 00:23:30.039
+custom syntax idea of Juan because it goes in the direction
+
+00:23:30.040 --> 00:23:34.159
+of flexibility while keeping things simple.
+
+00:23:34.160 --> 00:23:40.319
+And looking forward to what people will come up with. I like
+
+00:23:40.320 --> 00:23:44.839
+the idea that you want to formalize the syntax. I think that
+
+00:23:44.840 --> 00:23:48.479
+is really very good. I'd like to also submit it. I think that
+
+00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:52.359
+would be excellent. I'm also... I think it was proposed by
+
+00:23:52.360 --> 00:23:57.239
+Timothy, yeah. Initially. Okay. Yeah, that's really
+
+00:23:57.240 --> 00:24:02.839
+helpful. Pascal, are you still talking, I think? No, yeah, I
+
+00:24:02.840 --> 00:24:08.399
+just wanted to say also for the younger Emacs users, there is
+
+00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:12.839
+a lot of new things in Emacs the last five years. It has been so
+
+00:24:12.840 --> 00:24:17.719
+exciting. And I believe it's exciting for Org Mode too, the
+
+00:24:17.720 --> 00:24:22.439
+things you mentioned about track changes. uh native
+
+00:24:22.440 --> 00:24:25.639
+compilation and all that stuff that that's really good like
+
+00:24:25.640 --> 00:24:29.879
+some some performance problems that we had for org mode for
+
+00:24:29.880 --> 00:24:33.759
+the agenda and stuff like that were suddenly solved by uh the
+
+00:24:33.760 --> 00:24:38.159
+the crazy amazing work by Eli and emacs maintainers so
+
+00:24:38.160 --> 00:24:40.457
+it's really exciting for org as well.
+
+00:24:40.458 --> 00:24:43.566
+I don't know how you feel, Ihor, about this,
+
+00:24:43.567 --> 00:24:45.482
+but I know you are reading the Emacs
+
+00:24:45.483 --> 00:24:50.732
+development mailing list and keeping this is a job in
+
+00:24:50.733 --> 00:24:54.774
+itself, but it's really exciting for everyone, I guess. Not
+
+00:24:54.775 --> 00:24:58.274
+only that, I hope we can upstream org-ql, which will speed up
+
+00:24:58.275 --> 00:25:00.566
+agenda specifically even more.
+
+00:25:00.567 --> 00:25:06.982
+Okay. I need to fly away, but it was really nice connecting
+
+00:25:06.983 --> 00:25:13.899
+and I hope everyone has a great conference. Bye-bye. It was
+
+00:25:13.900 --> 00:25:16.107
+so good to see you. Thank you again for everything that you
+
+00:25:16.108 --> 00:25:21.399
+have done. Thanks to you both. Thank you. Bye-bye. Bye-bye.
+
+NOTE Off-stream Q&A
+
+00:25:28.520 --> 00:25:35.959
+All right. Is it only the two of us now? I don't really know who
+
+00:25:35.960 --> 00:25:40.239
+else. Can you see if there's anybody else in this room? I
+
+00:25:40.240 --> 00:25:45.079
+don't know. There are like two, four, six people and Sacha is
+
+00:25:45.080 --> 00:25:48.159
+one of them, so probably five people. Oh, Sacha is here.
+
+00:25:48.160 --> 00:25:51.999
+Okay. I haven't heard her say anything, but I see her in the
+
+00:25:52.000 --> 00:25:58.479
+chat. Okay. It's the same room, basically. Hi, Sacha. Oh,
+
+00:25:58.480 --> 00:26:02.199
+okay. They're also at her pad, so we may want to finish other
+
+00:26:02.200 --> 00:26:08.839
+questions, maybe, if there are some. This is just a circle.
+
+NOTE microemacs
+
+00:26:08.840 --> 00:26:12.079
+This is just a historical question, but Carsten, I think you
+
+00:26:12.080 --> 00:26:14.359
+used microemacs back in the day.
+
+00:26:14.360 --> 00:26:17.839
+Did that have any influence
+
+00:26:17.840 --> 00:26:23.879
+on Org? That is a really interesting question. I used
+
+00:26:23.880 --> 00:26:27.359
+microemacs as my first version of emacs, and then I stepped
+
+00:26:27.360 --> 00:26:33.359
+over to Emacs. I actually did two things at the same time. I
+
+00:26:33.360 --> 00:26:39.119
+also was working with so Awk basically, that language. I ran
+
+00:26:39.120 --> 00:26:45.599
+against walls with both Micro-Emacs and with Awk, where I had
+
+00:26:45.600 --> 00:26:48.639
+the feeling I don't have enough freedom to do everything
+
+00:26:48.640 --> 00:26:52.839
+that I wanted, so I switched to Perl on one side and to Emacs on
+
+00:26:52.840 --> 00:26:58.679
+the other side. That's what it was. Micro-Emacs absolutely
+
+00:26:58.680 --> 00:27:02.679
+had the function to pull me into Emacs, But it's not that I
+
+00:27:02.680 --> 00:27:04.759
+have specific microemacs features that would have
+
+00:27:04.760 --> 00:27:08.119
+triggered me to do something for Org Mode. I think that would be
+
+00:27:08.120 --> 00:27:14.207
+the answer to your question. All right, thanks.
+
+00:27:14.200 --> 00:27:21.639
+Are you a user of microemacs, George? I posted the source to
+
+00:27:21.640 --> 00:27:26.719
+CompSource's Amiga in 86, and I was somewhat responsible
+
+00:27:26.720 --> 00:27:31.959
+for it being in the wild. Oh, I'm so sorry that I didn't,
+
+00:27:31.960 --> 00:27:35.199
+wasn't really aware that I made the connection to your name.
+
+00:27:35.200 --> 00:27:39.719
+No, no, no, no. We all moved on and the world is a better place.
+
+00:27:39.720 --> 00:27:44.799
+Yeah. No, I actually did use it for something like, I think
+
+00:27:44.800 --> 00:27:47.440
+six years as my only admin at the time before I made the
+
+00:27:47.440 --> 00:27:51.359
+switch. No, I put it out to the list. David Lawrence ran with
+
+00:27:51.360 --> 00:27:55.399
+it and you know, that was about, that was the end of it. And I
+
+00:27:55.400 --> 00:27:57.599
+actually implemented something like fly spell for
+
+00:27:57.600 --> 00:28:02.359
+microemacs. I remember doing that at some point. Yeah, no, I
+
+00:28:02.360 --> 00:28:05.319
+don't want us to get stuck on that. I don't want us to get stuck
+
+00:28:05.320 --> 00:28:10.279
+on that, so. Yeah, yeah. Good. Thank you. Thank you for
+
+00:28:10.280 --> 00:28:17.679
+Org Mode. Yeah, you're most welcome.
+
+00:28:17.680 --> 00:28:22.199
+For microemacs, actually, I also tried it once. It feels
+
+00:28:22.200 --> 00:28:27.959
+like at home after Emacs, of course, the major downside was at
+
+00:28:27.960 --> 00:28:33.599
+this point is that there is no UTF support. I think that was
+
+00:28:33.600 --> 00:28:40.039
+like, unfortunately, that that's not going to work. I
+
+00:28:40.040 --> 00:28:43.959
+think I'm also going to disconnect now. But it was really
+
+00:28:43.960 --> 00:28:49.119
+fantastic to listen to your talk. I wish you all the best. I'm
+
+00:28:49.120 --> 00:28:53.479
+sure that is a good answer. Thank you for joining, and nice to
+
+00:28:53.480 --> 00:29:00.159
+meet you. Yeah, bye. Bye.
+
+00:29:00.160 --> 00:29:02.799
+Okay, so there are still people in the room, so if you want to
+
+00:29:02.800 --> 00:29:10.440
+ask questions, feel free to do it. I
+
+00:29:10.440 --> 00:29:12.679
+think there's one unanswered question in the etherpad
+
+00:29:12.680 --> 00:29:18.119
+also. Let me see.
+
+00:29:18.120 --> 00:29:21.639
+It's probably awkward to answer. Okay, I can answer and then
+
+00:29:21.640 --> 00:29:24.039
+probably answering the answer for this one. So there's a
+
+00:29:24.040 --> 00:29:28.519
+question about, from a person, I spent some time writing a
+
+00:29:28.520 --> 00:29:31.919
+library for myself, which involved working with Org files.
+
+NOTE Q: Is there/could there be a resource with which to recommend particularly well written codebases for review by others?
+
+00:29:31.920 --> 00:29:34.359
+One thing I struggled with was finding a good source of
+
+00:29:34.360 --> 00:29:41.599
+reference code which demonstrated idiomatic usage.
+
+00:29:41.600 --> 00:29:46.319
+particularly well-written code bases for review by
+
+00:29:46.320 --> 00:29:52.599
+others? That's a good question. We have some wiki pages.
+
+00:29:52.600 --> 00:29:57.039
+I'll put it in the answer later. You can also check Org Mode's
+
+00:29:57.040 --> 00:30:02.399
+code, but usually in org-element there are good usages, and
+
+00:30:02.400 --> 00:30:06.919
+in Org export.
+
+00:30:06.920 --> 00:30:10.279
+Otherwise, maybe something from Alphapapa, but I need to
+
+00:30:10.280 --> 00:30:13.320
+check that and probably reply later.
+
+00:30:16.167 --> 00:30:23.875
+Otherwise, that's all. So I'm going to end this.
+
+00:30:52.400 --> 00:32:09.720
+Bye bye.
diff --git a/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-p-search--psearch-a-local-search-engine-in-emacs--zac-romero--answers.vtt b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-p-search--psearch-a-local-search-engine-in-emacs--zac-romero--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..cd09d3cb
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-p-search--psearch-a-local-search-engine-in-emacs--zac-romero--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,2017 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:03.559
+...starting the recording here in the chat, and I see some
+
+00:00:03.560 --> 00:00:06.039
+questions already coming in. So thank you so much for your
+
+00:00:06.040 --> 00:00:09.359
+talk, Zac, and I'll step out of your way and let you field
+
+00:00:09.360 --> 00:00:10.279
+some of these questions.
+
+00:00:10.280 --> 00:00:21.999
+Sounds good. All right, so let's see. I'm going off of the
+
+00:00:22.000 --> 00:00:22.969
+question list.
+
+NOTE Q: Do you think a reduced version of this functionality could be integrated into isearch?
+
+00:00:22.970 --> 00:00:25.839
+So the first one is about having reduced
+
+00:00:25.840 --> 00:00:31.999
+version of the functionality integrated into iSearch. So
+
+00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:37.919
+yeah, with the way things are set up, it is essentially a
+
+00:00:37.920 --> 00:00:42.679
+framework. So
+
+00:00:42.680 --> 00:00:46.279
+you can create a candidate. So just a review from the talk. So
+
+00:00:46.280 --> 00:00:49.919
+you have these candidate generators which generate search
+
+00:00:49.920 --> 00:00:54.559
+candidates. So you can have a file system candidate which
+
+00:00:54.560 --> 00:00:58.519
+generates these file documents, which have text content in
+
+00:00:58.520 --> 00:01:01.799
+them. In theory, you could have like a website candidate
+
+00:01:01.800 --> 00:01:06.399
+generator, and it could be like a web crawler. I mean, so
+
+00:01:06.400 --> 00:01:10.519
+there's a lot of different options. So one option, it's on my
+
+00:01:10.520 --> 00:01:15.039
+mind, and I hope to get to this soon, is create a defun, like a
+
+00:01:15.040 --> 00:01:18.599
+defun candidate generator. So basically it takes a file,
+
+00:01:18.600 --> 00:01:22.279
+splits it up into like defunds, kind of like just like what
+
+00:01:22.280 --> 00:01:26.279
+iSearch would do. and then use each of those, the body of
+
+00:01:26.280 --> 00:01:30.959
+those, as a content for the search session. So, I mean,
+
+00:01:30.960 --> 00:01:35.359
+essentially you could just, you could start up a session,
+
+00:01:35.360 --> 00:01:39.479
+and there's like programmatic ways to start these up too. So
+
+00:01:39.480 --> 00:01:42.599
+you could, if such a candidate generator was created, you
+
+00:01:42.600 --> 00:01:49.559
+could easily, and just like, you know, one command. Get the
+
+00:01:49.560 --> 00:01:54.599
+defunds, create a search session with it, and then just go
+
+00:01:54.600 --> 00:02:01.439
+straight to your query. So, definitely, something
+
+00:02:01.440 --> 00:02:06.919
+just like this is in the works. And I guess another thing is
+
+00:02:06.920 --> 00:02:08.239
+interface.
+
+00:02:08.240 --> 00:02:17.079
+The whole dedicated buffer is helpful for searching, but
+
+00:02:17.080 --> 00:02:21.919
+with this isearch case, there's currently not a way to have a
+
+00:02:21.920 --> 00:02:27.839
+reduced UI, where it's just like, OK, I have these function
+
+00:02:27.840 --> 00:02:32.239
+defuns for the current file. I just want them to pop up at the
+
+00:02:32.240 --> 00:02:35.799
+bottom so I can quickly go through it. So currently, I don't
+
+00:02:35.800 --> 00:02:41.199
+have that. But such a UI is definitely, yeah, thinking about
+
+00:02:41.200 --> 00:02:45.359
+how that could be done.
+
+NOTE Q: Any idea how this would work with personal information like Zettlekastens?
+
+00:02:45.360 --> 00:02:50.359
+Alright, so yeah. So next question. Any idea how this
+
+00:02:50.360 --> 00:02:52.599
+will work with personal information like Zettelkasten?
+
+00:02:52.600 --> 00:02:58.319
+So this is, this is like, I mean, it's essentially usable as
+
+00:02:58.320 --> 00:03:04.559
+is with Zettelkasten method. So, I mean, that I mean
+
+00:03:04.560 --> 00:03:08.279
+basically what like for example org-roam, and I think other
+
+00:03:08.280 --> 00:03:12.159
+ones like Denote, they put all these files in the
+
+00:03:12.160 --> 00:03:15.919
+directory, and so with the already existing file system
+
+00:03:15.920 --> 00:03:19.679
+candidate generator all you'd have to do is set that to be the
+
+00:03:19.680 --> 00:03:23.199
+directory of your Zettelkasten system and then it would
+
+00:03:23.200 --> 00:03:26.799
+just pick up all the files in there and
+
+00:03:26.800 --> 00:03:28.799
+then add those as search candidates. So you could easily
+
+00:03:28.800 --> 00:03:33.279
+just search whatever system you have.
+
+00:03:33.280 --> 00:03:36.039
+Based off of the ways it's set up, if you had maybe your
+
+00:03:36.040 --> 00:03:40.999
+dailies you didn't want to search, it's just as easy to add a
+
+00:03:41.000 --> 00:03:44.519
+criteria saying, I don't want dailies to be searched. Like
+
+00:03:44.520 --> 00:03:47.599
+give, like just eliminate the date, like the things from the
+
+00:03:47.600 --> 00:03:51.679
+daily from the sub directory. And then there you go. you have
+
+00:03:51.680 --> 00:03:57.799
+your Zettelkasten search engine, and you could just copy
+
+00:03:57.800 --> 00:03:59.999
+the, you know, there's, I mean, I need, I'm working on
+
+00:04:00.000 --> 00:04:03.519
+documentation for this to kind of set this up easily, but,
+
+00:04:03.520 --> 00:04:06.679
+you know, you could just create your simple command, just
+
+00:04:06.680 --> 00:04:10.679
+like, your simple command, just like, just take in a text
+
+00:04:10.680 --> 00:04:14.359
+query, run it through the system, and then just get your
+
+00:04:14.360 --> 00:04:19.599
+search results right there. So yeah, definitely that is a
+
+00:04:19.600 --> 00:04:22.040
+use case that's on top of my mind.
+
+NOTE Q: How good does the search work for synonyms especially if you use different languages?
+
+00:04:22.041 --> 00:04:23.239
+So next one, how good does a
+
+00:04:23.240 --> 00:04:26.439
+search work for synonyms, especially if you use different
+
+00:04:26.440 --> 00:04:30.719
+languages? Okay, this is a good question because with the
+
+00:04:30.720 --> 00:04:34.719
+way that VM25 works, it's essentially just like trying to
+
+00:04:34.720 --> 00:04:41.119
+find where terms occur and just counts them up.
+
+00:04:41.120 --> 00:04:43.999
+I mean, this is something I couldn't get into. There's just
+
+00:04:44.000 --> 00:04:46.919
+too much on the topic of information retrieval to kind of go
+
+00:04:46.920 --> 00:04:52.879
+into this, but there is a whole kind of field of just like, how
+
+00:04:52.880 --> 00:04:58.279
+do you, given a search term, how do you know what you should
+
+00:04:58.280 --> 00:05:02.519
+search for? So like popular kind of industrial search
+
+00:05:02.520 --> 00:05:07.519
+engines, like they have kind of this feature where you can
+
+00:05:07.520 --> 00:05:11.039
+like define synonyms, define, term replacement. So
+
+00:05:11.040 --> 00:05:14.079
+whenever you see this term, it should be this. And it even
+
+00:05:14.080 --> 00:05:15.091
+gets even further.
+
+NOTE Plurals
+
+00:05:15.092 --> 00:05:19.439
+If someone searches for a plural string,
+
+00:05:19.440 --> 00:05:22.279
+how do you get the singular from that and search for that? So
+
+00:05:22.280 --> 00:05:27.559
+this is a huge topic that currently p-search doesn't
+
+00:05:27.560 --> 00:05:33.519
+address, but it's on the top of my mind as to how. So that's one
+
+00:05:33.520 --> 00:05:33.882
+part.
+
+NOTE Different languages
+
+00:05:33.883 --> 00:05:38.999
+The next part is for different languages, one thing
+
+00:05:39.000 --> 00:05:42.839
+that kind of seems like it's promising is vector search,
+
+00:05:42.840 --> 00:05:47.399
+which, I mean, with the way p-search is set up, you could
+
+00:05:47.400 --> 00:05:51.159
+easily just create a vector search prior, plug it into the
+
+00:05:51.160 --> 00:05:54.599
+system, and start using it. The only problem is that kind of
+
+00:05:54.600 --> 00:05:58.879
+the vector search functions, like you have to do like cosine
+
+00:05:58.880 --> 00:06:03.639
+similarity, like if you have like 10,000 documents, If
+
+00:06:03.640 --> 00:06:06.679
+you're writing Elisp to calculate the cosine similarity
+
+00:06:06.680 --> 00:06:09.879
+between the vectors, that's going to be very slow. And so now
+
+00:06:09.880 --> 00:06:14.159
+the whole can of worms of indexing comes up. And how do you do
+
+00:06:14.160 --> 00:06:17.479
+that? And is that going to be native elisp? And so that's a
+
+00:06:17.480 --> 00:06:21.839
+whole other can of worms. So yeah, vector search seems
+
+00:06:21.840 --> 00:06:25.959
+promising. And then hopefully maybe other traditional
+
+00:06:25.960 --> 00:06:33.439
+synonyms, stemming, that kind of stuff for alternate
+
+00:06:33.440 --> 00:06:40.199
+terms, that could also be incorporated.
+
+NOTE Q: When searching by author I know authors may setup a new machine and not put the exact same information. Is this doing anything to combine those into one author?
+
+00:06:40.200 --> 00:06:43.719
+Okay, next one. When searching by author, I know authors may
+
+00:06:43.720 --> 00:06:47.119
+set up a new machine and not put the exact same information.
+
+00:06:47.120 --> 00:06:49.519
+Is this doing anything to combine these two in one author?
+
+00:06:49.520 --> 00:06:54.399
+Okay, so for this one, it's not. So it's like the way the get
+
+00:06:54.400 --> 00:06:58.119
+prior is currently set up is that it just does like a get
+
+00:06:58.120 --> 00:07:01.999
+command to get all the get authors. You select one and then it
+
+00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:07.959
+just uses that. But the thing is, is if you knew the two emails
+
+00:07:07.960 --> 00:07:12.519
+that user might have used, the two usernames, you could just
+
+00:07:12.520 --> 00:07:14.279
+set up the
+
+00:07:14.280 --> 00:07:19.799
+two priors. One for the old user's email, and then just add
+
+00:07:19.800 --> 00:07:24.079
+another prior for the new user's email. And then that would
+
+00:07:24.080 --> 00:07:29.279
+be a way to just get both of those set up. So that's kind of a
+
+00:07:29.280 --> 00:07:32.959
+running theme throughout p-search is that It's made to be
+
+00:07:32.960 --> 00:07:36.239
+very flexible and very kind of like Lego block ish kind of
+
+00:07:36.240 --> 00:07:39.959
+like you can just, you know, if you need, you know, if
+
+00:07:39.960 --> 00:07:41.919
+something doesn't meet your needs, you know, it's easy to
+
+00:07:41.920 --> 00:07:45.959
+put pieces in, create new components of the search
+
+00:07:45.960 --> 00:07:51.799
+engine. Let's see, a cool powerful grep "Rak" to maybe have
+
+00:07:51.800 --> 00:07:58.839
+some good ideas. I have searches record code while
+
+00:07:58.840 --> 00:08:04.039
+searching. Okay. So. Okay, that's interesting. I'll have
+
+00:08:04.040 --> 00:08:05.239
+to look into this
+
+00:08:05.240 --> 00:08:15.279
+tool. I haven't seen that. I do kind of keep my eyes out for
+
+00:08:15.280 --> 00:08:18.199
+these kind of things. One thing I have seen that was kind of
+
+00:08:18.200 --> 00:08:24.439
+that, I mean, looked interesting was kind of like AST, like
+
+00:08:24.440 --> 00:08:29.519
+the treesitter, the treesitter grep tools. But like, you
+
+00:08:29.520 --> 00:08:35.359
+can grep for a string in the language itself. So that's
+
+00:08:35.360 --> 00:08:37.959
+something I think would be cool to implement either,
+
+00:08:37.960 --> 00:08:41.359
+because I mean, there's treesitter in Emacs, so it's
+
+00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:44.519
+possible to do a new list. If not, there are those kind of like
+
+00:08:44.520 --> 00:08:47.719
+treesitter. So that's, that's something that I think would
+
+00:08:47.720 --> 00:08:50.719
+be cool to incorporate.
+
+NOTE Q: Have you thought about integrating results from using cosine similarity with a deep-learning based vector embedding?
+
+00:08:50.720 --> 00:08:58.279
+Let's see. Have you thought about integrating results from
+
+00:08:58.280 --> 00:09:00.999
+using cosine similarity with a deep learning based vector
+
+00:09:01.000 --> 00:09:06.679
+embedding? Yeah, exactly. So yeah, this kind of goes back to
+
+00:09:06.680 --> 00:09:09.759
+the topic before it. Definitely the whole semantic search
+
+00:09:09.760 --> 00:09:12.679
+with vector embeddings, that's something that, I mean, it
+
+00:09:12.680 --> 00:09:15.479
+would be actually kind of trivial to implement that in
+
+00:09:15.480 --> 00:09:20.239
+p-search. But like I said, computing the cosine similarity
+
+00:09:20.240 --> 00:09:25.959
+in elisp, it's probably too slow.
+
+00:09:25.960 --> 00:09:34.879
+And then also there's a whole question of how do you get the embeddings?
+
+00:09:34.880 --> 00:09:36.919
+Like, how do you get the system running locally on your
+
+00:09:36.920 --> 00:09:41.239
+machine if you want to run it that or, I mean, so that's
+
+00:09:41.240 --> 00:09:48.879
+actually another kind of aspect that I need to look into.
+
+00:09:48.880 --> 00:10:01.939
+Okay, so let's see.
+
+NOTE Q: Is it possible to save/bookmark searches or search templates so they can be used again and again?
+
+00:10:01.940 --> 00:10:06.319
+Okay, next question. Let's see. I'm sorry if this has been
+
+00:10:06.320 --> 00:10:09.079
+covered. Is it possible to save/bookmark searches or search
+
+00:10:09.080 --> 00:10:14.559
+templates so they can be used again and again? Exactly. So
+
+00:10:14.560 --> 00:10:18.199
+just recently I added bookmarking capabilities. So
+
+00:10:18.200 --> 00:10:21.119
+you can essentially just bookmark whatever search session you
+
+00:10:21.120 --> 00:10:26.359
+have. And yeah, and it's just, it was just a bookmark. You can
+
+00:10:26.360 --> 00:10:29.839
+just open and just like reopen that, rerun that search from
+
+00:10:29.840 --> 00:10:36.119
+where you left off. So there's that. And then also, I tried to
+
+00:10:36.120 --> 00:10:40.559
+set this up so that there is a one-to-one mapping of a Lisp
+
+00:10:40.560 --> 00:10:44.759
+object to the search session. So from every search session
+
+00:10:44.760 --> 00:10:49.519
+you make, you should be able to get a, there's a command to do
+
+00:10:49.520 --> 00:10:55.199
+this, to get a data representation of the search. So it would
+
+00:10:55.200 --> 00:11:00.079
+just be like some plist. All you have to do is just take that
+
+00:11:00.080 --> 00:11:04.479
+plist, call this function p-search-setup-buffer with that
+
+00:11:04.480 --> 00:11:09.119
+data. And then that function should set up the session as you
+
+00:11:09.120 --> 00:11:12.599
+left off. So then like, you know, you could make your
+
+00:11:12.600 --> 00:11:15.359
+commands easy. You can make custom search commands super
+
+00:11:15.360 --> 00:11:18.919
+easy. You just get the data representation of that search,
+
+00:11:18.920 --> 00:11:22.519
+find what pieces you want the user to be able to, you know, the
+
+00:11:22.520 --> 00:11:26.333
+search term, make that a parameter in the
+
+00:11:26.334 --> 00:11:29.079
+command, in the interactive code. So you'd have like
+
+00:11:29.080 --> 00:11:31.906
+print on top and then there you go. You have,
+
+00:11:31.907 --> 00:11:34.327
+you have a command to do the search
+
+00:11:34.328 --> 00:11:35.759
+just like just right there. So, so
+
+00:11:35.760 --> 00:11:38.519
+there's a lot of those things and there's a lot more that
+
+00:11:38.520 --> 00:11:40.999
+could be done. Like maybe having, you know, there's kind of
+
+00:11:41.000 --> 00:11:45.479
+in the works and like thinking about having groups of groups
+
+00:11:45.480 --> 00:11:48.959
+of these things, like maybe you can set up like, Oh, I always
+
+00:11:48.960 --> 00:11:51.919
+add these three criteria together. So I, you know, maybe I
+
+00:11:51.920 --> 00:11:54.559
+can make a preset out of these and make them easy, easily
+
+00:11:54.560 --> 00:11:58.079
+addable. So yeah. A lot of things like that are, you know, I'm
+
+00:11:58.080 --> 00:12:02.799
+thinking about a lot of things about that, so.
+
+NOTE Q: You mentioned about candidate generators. Could you explain about to what the score is assigned to?
+
+00:12:02.800 --> 00:12:06.079
+Okay, so next question. You mentioned about candidate
+
+00:12:06.080 --> 00:12:08.479
+generators. Could you explain about what the score is
+
+00:12:08.480 --> 00:12:12.199
+assigned to? Is this to a line or whatever the candidate
+
+00:12:12.200 --> 00:12:17.079
+generates? How does it work with our junior demo? Okay,
+
+00:12:17.080 --> 00:12:21.799
+yeah, so this is a, this is, so actually I had to implement, I
+
+00:12:21.800 --> 00:12:26.719
+had to rewrite p-search just to get this part right. So the
+
+00:12:26.720 --> 00:12:31.159
+candidate generator generates documents. Documents have
+
+00:12:31.160 --> 00:12:36.919
+properties. So the most notable property is the content
+
+00:12:36.920 --> 00:12:40.599
+property. So essentially what happens is that when you
+
+00:12:40.600 --> 00:12:42.879
+create a file system candidate generator and give it a
+
+00:12:42.880 --> 00:12:45.919
+directory, the code goes into the directory, kind of
+
+00:12:45.920 --> 00:12:49.079
+recursively goes through all the directories, and
+
+00:12:49.080 --> 00:12:51.559
+generates a candidate, which is just like a simple list
+
+00:12:51.560 --> 00:12:55.679
+form. It's saying, this is a file, the file path is this. So
+
+00:12:55.680 --> 00:13:00.799
+that's the document ID. So this is saying, this is a file,
+
+00:13:00.800 --> 00:13:05.559
+it's a file, and its file path is this. And so from that, you
+
+00:13:05.560 --> 00:13:09.279
+get all of the different properties, the sub properties. If
+
+00:13:09.280 --> 00:13:11.719
+you're given that, you know how to get the content. If you're
+
+00:13:11.720 --> 00:13:15.439
+given that, you know how to... So all these properties come
+
+00:13:15.440 --> 00:13:18.839
+out. And then also the candidate generator is the thing that
+
+00:13:18.840 --> 00:13:25.439
+knows how best to search for the terms. So for example, there
+
+00:13:25.440 --> 00:13:29.159
+is a buffer candidate generator. What that does is it just
+
+00:13:29.160 --> 00:13:34.759
+puts all your buffers as search candidates. So obviously
+
+00:13:34.760 --> 00:13:37.879
+you can't, you can't run ripgrep on buffers like you can't you
+
+00:13:37.880 --> 00:13:41.759
+can't do that, you can't run ripgrep on just like yeah just
+
+00:13:41.760 --> 00:13:44.319
+just like buffers that don't have files attached or, for
+
+00:13:44.320 --> 00:13:47.559
+example, maybe there's like an internet search candidate
+
+00:13:47.560 --> 00:13:51.279
+generator, like a web crawler thing. You just imagine it
+
+00:13:51.280 --> 00:13:55.759
+goes to a website, kind of crawls all the links and all that,
+
+00:13:55.760 --> 00:13:58.119
+and then just gets your web pages for the candidates.
+
+00:13:58.120 --> 00:14:01.159
+Obviously, you can't use ripgrep for that either. So, every
+
+00:14:01.160 --> 00:14:04.679
+candidate generator knows how best to search for the terms
+
+00:14:04.680 --> 00:14:08.919
+of what candidate it's generating. So, the file system
+
+00:14:08.920 --> 00:14:12.359
+candidate generator will say, okay, I have a base
+
+00:14:12.360 --> 00:14:17.239
+directory. So, if you ask me, the file system candidate
+
+00:14:17.240 --> 00:14:21.239
+generator, how to get the terms, it knows it's set up to use
+
+00:14:21.240 --> 00:14:25.199
+ripgrep. And so, it runs ripgrep, and so then it goes
+
+00:14:25.200 --> 00:14:29.439
+through, it runs the command, gets the counts, and then
+
+00:14:29.440 --> 00:14:32.359
+store those counts. So, the lines have nothing. At this
+
+00:14:32.360 --> 00:14:35.999
+point, the lines have nothing. There's no notion of lines at
+
+00:14:36.000 --> 00:14:40.559
+all. It's just document, document ID with the amount of
+
+00:14:40.560 --> 00:14:43.839
+times it matched. And that's all you need to run this BM25
+
+00:14:43.840 --> 00:14:47.519
+algorithm. But then when you get the top results, you
+
+00:14:47.520 --> 00:14:51.359
+obviously want to see the lines that matched. And so there's
+
+00:14:51.360 --> 00:14:56.399
+another thing, another method to kind of get the exact
+
+00:14:56.400 --> 00:15:00.559
+thing, to kind of match out the particular lines. And so
+
+00:15:00.560 --> 00:15:03.159
+that's a separate mechanism. And that can be done in Elist,
+
+00:15:03.160 --> 00:15:05.719
+because if you're not displaying, that's kind of a design
+
+00:15:05.720 --> 00:15:09.319
+decision of P-Search, is that it only displays like maybe 10
+
+00:15:09.320 --> 00:15:12.519
+or 20. It doesn't display all the results. So you can have
+
+00:15:12.520 --> 00:15:16.679
+Elist just go crazy with just like highlighting things,
+
+00:15:16.680 --> 00:15:22.719
+picking the best kind of pieces to show. So yeah, that's how
+
+00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:27.359
+that's set up.
+
+00:15:27.360 --> 00:15:38.279
+So, here's perhaps a good moment for me to just jump in and
+
+00:15:38.280 --> 00:15:42.079
+comment that in a minute or so we will break away with the live
+
+00:15:42.080 --> 00:15:47.439
+stream to give people an hour of less content to make sure
+
+00:15:47.440 --> 00:15:50.639
+everybody goes and takes their lunch and break a little bit.
+
+00:15:50.640 --> 00:15:55.039
+But if you would like to keep going in here, Love to love to
+
+00:15:55.040 --> 00:15:59.839
+take as many questions. And, of course, we will include
+
+00:15:59.840 --> 00:16:06.159
+that all when we publish the Q and A. Sounds good. Yeah, I'll go
+
+00:16:06.160 --> 00:16:12.199
+and stick around on the stream as we cut away, as we've got a
+
+00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:15.999
+little video surprise we've all prepared to play, just some
+
+00:16:16.000 --> 00:16:19.359
+comments from an Emacs user dated in 2020 or something like
+
+00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:29.679
+this. I forget the detail. Thank you again so much, Zac, for
+
+00:16:29.680 --> 00:16:30.959
+your fascinating talk.
+
+00:16:30.960 --> 00:16:32.301
+Yeah, so, okay.
+
+NOTE Q: easy filtering with orderless - did this or something like this help or infulce the design of psearch?
+
+00:16:32.302 --> 00:16:33.359
+This makes me really think about the
+
+00:16:33.360 --> 00:16:35.999
+emergent workflows with Denote and easy filtering with
+
+00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:36.639
+orderless.
+
+00:16:36.640 --> 00:16:42.039
+Did this or something like this help influence the design of
+
+00:16:42.040 --> 00:16:47.359
+p-search? Yeah, exactly. So, I mean, yeah, I mean, there's
+
+00:16:47.360 --> 00:16:49.919
+just so many different searches. Like, it's just kind of
+
+00:16:49.920 --> 00:16:52.519
+mind-boggling. Like, you could search for whatever you want
+
+00:16:52.520 --> 00:16:54.599
+on your computer. Like, there's just so much, like, you
+
+00:16:54.600 --> 00:17:01.199
+can't, yeah, you can't just like, you can't just like hard
+
+00:17:01.200 --> 00:17:04.159
+code any of these things. It's all malleable. Like maybe
+
+00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:09.279
+somebody wants to search these directories. And so, yeah,
+
+00:17:09.280 --> 00:17:10.639
+like
+
+00:17:10.640 --> 00:17:18.399
+exactly like that use case of having a directory of files
+
+00:17:18.400 --> 00:17:18.959
+where
+
+00:17:18.960 --> 00:17:25.919
+they contain your personal knowledge management system.
+
+00:17:25.920 --> 00:17:33.479
+Yeah, that use case definitely was at the top of my mind.
+
+00:17:33.480 --> 00:17:35.879
+Let's see.
+
+00:17:35.880 --> 00:17:56.959
+Let's see, so Git covers the multiple names thing itself.
+
+NOTE Q: Notmuch with the p-search UI
+
+00:17:56.960 --> 00:18:00.359
+Okay, yeah,
+
+00:18:00.360 --> 00:18:09.599
+so something about notmuch with p-search UI. Actually,
+
+00:18:09.600 --> 00:18:16.399
+interestingly, I think notmuch is, I haven't used it
+
+00:18:16.400 --> 00:18:22.759
+myself, but that's the, email something about yeah so i mean
+
+00:18:22.760 --> 00:18:25.679
+this is like these things are just like these these kind of
+
+00:18:25.680 --> 00:18:30.479
+extensions could kind of go go forever but one thing i
+
+00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:33.369
+thought about is like i use mu4e for email
+
+00:18:33.370 --> 00:18:41.119
+and that uses a full-fledged index. And so having
+
+00:18:41.120 --> 00:18:44.879
+some method to kind of reach into these different systems
+
+00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:47.938
+and kind of be kind of like a front end for this.
+
+00:18:47.939 --> 00:18:52.000
+Another thing is maybe SQL database.
+
+00:18:52.001 --> 00:18:55.823
+You can create a candidate generator from a SQLite query
+
+00:18:55.824 --> 00:19:01.919
+and then... yeah...
+
+00:19:02.583 --> 00:19:05.519
+I've had tons of ideas of different things you could
+
+00:19:05.520 --> 00:19:09.559
+incorporate into the system. Slowly,
+
+00:19:09.560 --> 00:19:13.599
+they're being implemented. Just recently, I implemented
+
+NOTE Info
+
+00:19:13.600 --> 00:19:17.039
+an info file candidate generator. So it lists out all the
+
+00:19:17.040 --> 00:19:21.559
+info files, and then it creates a candidate for each of the
+
+00:19:21.560 --> 00:19:26.759
+info nodes. So it turns out, yeah, I mean, it works pretty, I
+
+00:19:26.760 --> 00:19:32.559
+mean, just as well as Google. So I'm up for my own testing.
+
+00:19:32.560 --> 00:19:39.999
+Let's see, you can search a buffer using ripgrep feeding in
+
+00:19:40.000 --> 00:19:44.759
+as standard in to the ripgrep process, can't you? Yep, yeah,
+
+00:19:44.760 --> 00:19:50.039
+you can definitely search a buffer that way. So, yeah, I
+
+00:19:50.040 --> 00:19:56.359
+mean, based off of I mean, if this, yeah, so one thing that
+
+00:19:56.360 --> 00:19:59.039
+came up is that the system wants, I mean, I wanted the system
+
+00:19:59.040 --> 00:20:03.559
+to be able to search a lot of different things. And so it came
+
+00:20:03.560 --> 00:20:05.999
+up that I had, you know, implementing,
+
+00:20:06.000 --> 00:20:10.159
+doing these search things, having an Elist
+
+00:20:10.160 --> 00:20:13.079
+implementation, despite it being slow, would be
+
+00:20:13.080 --> 00:20:17.399
+necessary. So like anything that isn't represented as a
+
+00:20:17.400 --> 00:20:21.639
+file, Elisp, there's a mechanism in p-search to search for
+
+00:20:21.640 --> 00:20:23.319
+it.
+
+00:20:23.320 --> 00:20:29.719
+So, yeah, so having that redundancy kind of lets you get into
+
+00:20:29.720 --> 00:20:32.799
+the, you know, using kind of ripgrep for the big scale
+
+00:20:32.800 --> 00:20:37.759
+things. But then when you get to the individual file, you
+
+00:20:37.760 --> 00:20:40.999
+know, just going back to Elisp to kind of get the finer
+
+00:20:41.000 --> 00:20:47.199
+details seems to, you know, seems to end up working pretty
+
+00:20:47.200 --> 00:21:04.239
+well.
+
+00:21:04.240 --> 00:21:27.399
+Thank you all for listening. Yeah, sounds like we're about
+
+00:21:27.400 --> 00:21:31.279
+out of questions. Hi, Zacc. I have a question or still a
+
+00:21:31.280 --> 00:21:34.119
+question. I just want to thank everybody one more time for
+
+00:21:34.120 --> 00:21:37.719
+their participation, especially you for speaking, Zack. I
+
+00:21:37.720 --> 00:21:41.239
+look forward to playing with p-search myself. Thank you.
+
+00:21:41.240 --> 00:21:44.039
+Yeah, there might be one last question. Is there someone?
+
+00:21:44.040 --> 00:21:48.519
+Yes, there is. I don't know if you can understand me, but
+
+00:21:48.520 --> 00:21:50.359
+thank you for making this lovely thing
+
+00:21:50.360 --> 00:21:57.919
+I feel inspired to try it out and I'm thinking about how to
+
+00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:04.199
+integrate it because it sounds modular and nicely thought
+
+00:22:04.200 --> 00:22:09.799
+out. One small question. Have you thought about Project L
+
+00:22:09.800 --> 00:22:13.719
+integration? And then I have a little bigger question about
+
+00:22:13.720 --> 00:22:14.879
+the interface.
+
+NOTE project.el integration
+
+00:22:14.880 --> 00:22:20.799
+Yeah, project.el integration, it's used in a couple of ways.
+
+00:22:20.800 --> 00:22:25.719
+It's kind of used to kind of as like kind of like a default.
+
+00:22:25.720 --> 00:22:31.279
+This is the directory I want to search for the default
+
+00:22:31.280 --> 00:22:33.639
+p-search command. It does, yeah, it kind of goes off of
+
+00:22:33.640 --> 00:22:37.119
+project.el. If there is a project, it kind of says, okay, this,
+
+00:22:37.120 --> 00:22:40.319
+I want to search this project. And so it kind of, it used that
+
+00:22:40.320 --> 00:22:46.119
+as a default. So there's that. Because I use the project-grep
+
+00:22:46.120 --> 00:22:50.679
+or git-grep search a lot and maybe this is a better solution to
+
+00:22:50.680 --> 00:22:55.319
+the search and the interface you have right now for the
+
+00:22:55.320 --> 00:22:56.476
+search results.
+
+NOTE Q: How happy are you with the interface?
+
+00:22:56.477 --> 00:22:58.719
+How happy are you with it and have you
+
+00:22:58.720 --> 00:23:02.599
+thought about improving or have you ideas for
+
+00:23:02.600 --> 00:23:06.639
+improvements? Yeah, well actually what you see in the demo
+
+00:23:06.640 --> 00:23:09.199
+in the video isn't... There's actually, there is an
+
+00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:13.959
+improvement in the current code. Basically, what it
+
+00:23:13.960 --> 00:23:17.239
+does is it scans there's the current default as it scans
+
+00:23:17.240 --> 00:23:20.054
+the entire file for all of the searches.
+
+00:23:20.055 --> 00:23:25.959
+It finds the window that that has the highest score. So it kind
+
+00:23:25.960 --> 00:23:29.599
+of goes through entire file and just says... And it kind of finds
+
+00:23:29.600 --> 00:23:33.479
+like the piece of the section of text that has the most
+
+00:23:33.480 --> 00:23:37.919
+matches with the terms that score the best. So it's, I mean,
+
+00:23:37.920 --> 00:23:40.119
+that section is pretty good. I mean, that, so yeah, that,
+
+00:23:40.120 --> 00:23:44.519
+that ends up working pretty well. So I mean, in terms of other
+
+00:23:44.520 --> 00:23:46.879
+UI stuff, there's, there's tons, there's tons more that
+
+00:23:46.880 --> 00:23:50.159
+could be done, like, especially like debug ability or like
+
+00:23:50.160 --> 00:23:53.799
+introspection. Like, so this, this result, like, for
+
+00:23:53.800 --> 00:23:57.119
+example, this result ranks really high. Maybe you don't
+
+00:23:57.120 --> 00:24:01.719
+know why though. It's like, because of this, this text query
+
+00:24:01.720 --> 00:24:04.479
+arrow, was it because of this criteria? I think
+
+00:24:04.480 --> 00:24:09.039
+there's some UI elements that could kind of help the user
+
+00:24:09.040 --> 00:24:12.519
+understand why results are scoring high or low. So that's
+
+00:24:12.520 --> 00:24:15.639
+definitely... And that makes a lot of sense to me. You know, a
+
+00:24:15.640 --> 00:24:19.039
+lot of it is demystifying, like understanding what you're
+
+00:24:19.040 --> 00:24:22.719
+learning better and not just finding the right thing. A lot
+
+00:24:22.720 --> 00:24:26.519
+of it is, you know, kind of exploring your data. I love that.
+
+00:24:26.520 --> 00:24:31.639
+Thanks. Okay. I'm not trying to hurry us through either by
+
+00:24:31.640 --> 00:24:36.599
+any stretch. I would be happy to see this be a conversation.
+
+00:24:36.600 --> 00:24:42.359
+I also want to be considerate of your time. And I also wanted to
+
+00:24:42.360 --> 00:24:45.479
+make a quick shout out to everybody who's been updating and
+
+00:24:45.480 --> 00:24:50.479
+helping us capture the questions and the comments and the
+
+00:24:50.480 --> 00:24:53.639
+etherpad. That's just a big help to the extent that people
+
+00:24:53.640 --> 00:24:57.199
+are jumping in there and you know, revising and extending
+
+00:24:57.200 --> 00:24:59.799
+and just doing the best job we can to capture all the
+
+00:24:59.800 --> 00:25:00.799
+thoughtful remarks.
+
+00:25:00.800 --> 00:25:14.839
+Yeah, thank you, Zac. I'm not too sure what to ask anymore,
+
+00:25:14.840 --> 00:25:20.559
+but yes, would love to try it out now. Yeah, I mean,
+
+00:25:20.560 --> 00:25:22.076
+definitely feel free to...
+
+00:25:22.077 --> 00:25:25.679
+any feedback, here's my mail, or issues...
+
+00:25:25.680 --> 00:25:29.039
+I mean I'm happy to get any any feedback. It's
+
+00:25:29.040 --> 00:25:31.679
+still in the early stages, so still kind of a lot of
+
+00:25:31.680 --> 00:25:35.599
+documentation that needs to be writing. There's a lot.
+
+00:25:35.600 --> 00:25:38.439
+There's a lot on the roadmap, but yeah, I mean, hopefully, I
+
+00:25:38.440 --> 00:25:42.759
+could even publish this to ELPA and have a nice
+
+00:25:42.760 --> 00:25:47.727
+manual so yeah hopefully yeah those come soon. Epic.
+
+00:25:47.728 --> 00:25:50.279
+That sounds great, yes.
+
+NOTE gptel
+
+00:25:50.280 --> 00:25:59.359
+The ability to save your searches kind of reminds me of like
+
+00:25:59.360 --> 00:26:05.119
+the gptel package for the AI, where you can save searches,
+
+00:26:05.120 --> 00:26:10.799
+which makes it feel a lot more different. And yeah, we don't
+
+00:26:10.800 --> 00:26:14.839
+have something for that with search, but yeah, that's a
+
+00:26:14.840 --> 00:26:19.279
+whole different dynamic where it's like, okay, yeah, and
+
+00:26:19.280 --> 00:26:24.679
+makes it a unique tool that is, I guess would be unique to
+
+00:26:24.680 --> 00:26:28.079
+Emacs where you don't see that with like this AI package
+
+00:26:28.080 --> 00:26:31.119
+where the gptel is kind of unique because it's not just throw
+
+00:26:31.120 --> 00:26:37.039
+away. It's how did I get this? How did I search for it? And be an
+
+00:26:37.040 --> 00:26:40.319
+organic search, kind of like the orderless and vertico
+
+00:26:40.320 --> 00:26:43.039
+and...
+
+00:26:43.040 --> 00:26:46.279
+Yeah, that's a good, I mean, that brings me to another thing
+
+00:26:46.280 --> 00:26:48.239
+in that, so,
+
+00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:53.199
+I mean, you could easily...
+
+00:26:53.200 --> 00:26:57.399
+you could create bridges from p-search to these different
+
+00:26:57.400 --> 00:27:01.519
+other packages, like, for example, kind of a RAG search,
+
+00:27:01.520 --> 00:27:04.679
+like there's this RAG, there's this thing called a RAG
+
+00:27:04.680 --> 00:27:06.879
+workflow, which is kind of popular these days. It's like
+
+00:27:06.880 --> 00:27:11.639
+retrieval augmented generation. So, you do a search and
+
+00:27:11.640 --> 00:27:14.199
+then based off the search results you get, then you pass
+
+00:27:14.200 --> 00:27:20.359
+those into LLM. So, the cool thing is that like you could use
+
+00:27:20.360 --> 00:27:25.119
+p-search for the retrieval. And so you could even like, I
+
+00:27:25.120 --> 00:27:28.799
+mean, you could even ask an LM to come up with the search terms
+
+00:27:28.800 --> 00:27:32.079
+and then have it search. There's no
+
+00:27:32.080 --> 00:27:35.439
+programmatical interface now to do this exact workflow.
+
+00:27:35.440 --> 00:27:39.039
+But I mean, there's another kind of direction I'm starting
+
+00:27:39.040 --> 00:27:43.199
+to think about. So like you could have maybe
+
+00:27:43.200 --> 00:27:47.759
+a question answer kind of workflow where it does
+
+00:27:47.760 --> 00:27:51.639
+like an initial search for the terms and then you get the top
+
+00:27:51.640 --> 00:27:57.199
+results and then you can put that through maybe gptel or all
+
+00:27:57.200 --> 00:27:59.759
+these other different systems. So that's, and that seems
+
+00:27:59.760 --> 00:28:01.479
+like a promising thing. And then another thing is like,
+
+NOTE Saving a search
+
+00:28:01.480 --> 00:28:10.594
+well, you mentioned the ability to save a search.
+
+00:28:10.595 --> 00:28:11.479
+One thing I've noticed
+
+00:28:11.480 --> 00:28:15.359
+kind of like with the DevOps workflows is, I'll write a
+
+00:28:15.360 --> 00:28:20.519
+CLI command that I do, or like a calculator command. Then I end
+
+00:28:20.520 --> 00:28:23.999
+up in the org mode document, write what I wrote, had the
+
+00:28:24.000 --> 00:28:26.943
+results in there, and then I'll go back to that.
+
+00:28:26.944 --> 00:28:31.966
+It's like, oh, this is why, this is that calculation I did
+
+00:28:31.967 --> 00:28:34.007
+and this is why I did it.
+
+00:28:34.008 --> 00:28:36.959
+I'll have run the same tool three different
+
+00:28:36.960 --> 00:28:40.519
+times to get three different answers, if it was like a
+
+00:28:40.520 --> 00:28:41.799
+calculator, for example.
+
+NOTE Workflows
+
+00:28:41.800 --> 00:28:49.319
+But yeah, that's a very unique feature that isn't seen and
+
+00:28:49.320 --> 00:28:53.959
+will make me look at it and see about integrating it into my
+
+00:28:53.960 --> 00:28:59.079
+workflow. Yeah, I think you get on some interesting, you
+
+00:28:59.080 --> 00:29:03.159
+know, kind of what makes Emacs really unique there and how
+
+00:29:03.160 --> 00:29:07.399
+to... interesting kind of ways to exploit
+
+00:29:07.400 --> 00:29:12.439
+Emacs to learn in the problem. I'm seeing a number of
+
+00:29:12.440 --> 00:29:15.799
+ways you're getting at that. For example, if I think about
+
+00:29:15.800 --> 00:29:18.999
+like an automation workflow, and there's just a million
+
+00:29:19.000 --> 00:29:22.719
+we'll say, assumptions that are baked into a search
+
+00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:26.719
+product, so to speak, like represented by a Google search or
+
+00:29:26.720 --> 00:29:31.639
+Bing or what have you. And then as I unpack that and repack it
+
+00:29:31.640 --> 00:29:35.159
+from an Emacs workflow standpoint, thinking about, well,
+
+00:29:35.160 --> 00:29:39.079
+first of all, what is the yak I'm shaving? And then also, what
+
+00:29:39.080 --> 00:29:43.759
+does doing it right mean? How would I reuse this? How would I
+
+00:29:43.760 --> 00:29:47.679
+make the code accessible to others for their own purposes in
+
+00:29:47.680 --> 00:29:52.439
+a free software world kind of way? and all of the different
+
+00:29:52.440 --> 00:29:57.479
+sort of say like orthogonal headspacey kind of things,
+
+00:29:57.480 --> 00:30:00.079
+right? Emacs brings a lot to the table from a search
+
+00:30:00.080 --> 00:30:03.719
+standpoint because I'm going to want to think about. I'm
+
+00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:07.799
+going to want to think about where does the UI come in? Where
+
+00:30:07.800 --> 00:30:11.399
+might the user want to get involved interactively? Where
+
+00:30:11.400 --> 00:30:14.359
+might the user want to get involved declaratively with
+
+00:30:14.360 --> 00:30:16.919
+their configuration, perhaps based on the particular
+
+00:30:16.920 --> 00:30:21.359
+environment where this Emacs is running? And there's just a
+
+00:30:21.360 --> 00:30:24.879
+lot of what Emacs users think about that really applies.
+
+00:30:24.880 --> 00:30:28.359
+I'll use the word again, orthogonally across all my many
+
+00:30:28.360 --> 00:30:33.239
+workflows as an Emacs user. You know, the search is just such
+
+00:30:33.240 --> 00:30:38.519
+a big word. Yeah, that's actually, this exact point I was
+
+00:30:38.520 --> 00:30:43.159
+thinking about with this. It's like, I mean, it seems kind of
+
+00:30:43.160 --> 00:30:46.319
+obvious, like just like using grep or something, just like to
+
+00:30:46.320 --> 00:30:49.359
+get search counts, like, okay, you can just run the command,
+
+00:30:49.360 --> 00:30:51.439
+get the term counts and you could just run it through a
+
+00:30:51.440 --> 00:30:55.959
+relatively simple algorithm. to get your search score. So
+
+00:30:55.960 --> 00:31:01.759
+if it's this easy, though, why don't we see this in other... And
+
+00:31:01.760 --> 00:31:06.919
+the results are actually surprisingly good. So why don't we
+
+00:31:06.920 --> 00:31:10.559
+see this anywhere, really? And it occurred to me that just
+
+00:31:10.560 --> 00:31:16.399
+the amount of configuration... The amount of setup you have to
+
+00:31:16.400 --> 00:31:20.039
+do to get it right.
+
+00:31:20.040 --> 00:31:24.599
+It's above this threshold that you need something like
+
+00:31:24.600 --> 00:31:27.856
+Emacs to kind of get pushed through that configuration.
+
+NOTE Transient and configuration
+
+00:31:27.857 --> 00:31:30.799
+So for example, that's why I rely heavily on transient
+
+00:31:30.800 --> 00:31:34.119
+to set up the system. 'Cause like, if you want to get good
+
+00:31:34.120 --> 00:31:36.079
+search results, you're going to have to configure a lot
+
+00:31:36.080 --> 00:31:38.519
+of stuff. I want this directory. I want this, I don't
+
+00:31:38.520 --> 00:31:41.559
+want this directory. I want these search terms, you know,
+
+00:31:41.560 --> 00:31:48.159
+there's a lot to set up. And in most programs, I mean, they
+
+00:31:48.160 --> 00:31:52.079
+don't have an easy way to, I mean, they'll often try and try to
+
+00:31:52.080 --> 00:31:55.039
+hide all this complexity. Like they say, okay, our users
+
+00:31:55.040 --> 00:31:59.199
+too, you know, we don't want to, you know, we don't wanna, you
+
+00:31:59.200 --> 00:32:02.719
+know, make our users, we don't wanna scare our users with
+
+00:32:02.720 --> 00:32:06.879
+like, complicated search engine configuration. So we're
+
+00:32:06.880 --> 00:32:09.079
+just going to do it all in the background and we're just not
+
+00:32:09.080 --> 00:32:12.599
+going to let the user even know that it's happening. I mean,
+
+00:32:12.600 --> 00:32:15.119
+that's the third time you've made me laugh out loud. Sorry
+
+00:32:15.120 --> 00:32:17.879
+for interrupting you, but yeah, you're just spot on there.
+
+00:32:17.880 --> 00:32:22.999
+You're some people's users. Am I right? like, you know, and
+
+00:32:23.000 --> 00:32:25.390
+also some people's workflows.
+
+NOTE Problem space
+
+00:32:25.391 --> 00:32:27.719
+And, you know, another case
+
+00:32:27.720 --> 00:32:30.799
+where just like, if you're thinking about Emacs, you either
+
+00:32:30.800 --> 00:32:33.279
+have to pick a tunnel to dive into and be like, no, this is
+
+00:32:33.280 --> 00:32:37.759
+going to be right for my work, or your problem space is never
+
+00:32:37.760 --> 00:32:40.879
+ending in terms of discovering the ways other people are
+
+00:32:40.880 --> 00:32:45.839
+using Emacs and how that breaks your feature. and how that
+
+00:32:45.840 --> 00:32:49.679
+breaks your conceptualization of the problem space,
+
+00:32:49.680 --> 00:32:53.559
+right? Or you just have to get so narrowed down that can
+
+00:32:53.560 --> 00:32:57.119
+actually be hard to find people that are quite understand
+
+00:32:57.120 --> 00:33:00.279
+you, right? You get into the particular, well, it solves
+
+00:33:00.280 --> 00:33:03.039
+these three problems for me. Well, what are these three
+
+00:33:03.040 --> 00:33:08.639
+problems again? And this is a month to unpack. You have Emacs
+
+00:33:08.640 --> 00:33:12.639
+and I don't know, it's like you got a lot of, they all agree is
+
+00:33:12.640 --> 00:33:16.559
+like we're going to use elisp to set variables every emacs
+
+00:33:16.560 --> 00:33:21.199
+package is going to do that we're going to use elisp and have a
+
+00:33:21.200 --> 00:33:25.479
+search in place to put our documentation and like it does
+
+00:33:25.480 --> 00:33:32.559
+also eliminate a lot of confusion and gives a lot of
+
+00:33:32.560 --> 00:33:37.719
+expectations of what they want. One thing that I'm
+
+00:33:37.720 --> 00:33:39.855
+surprised I haven't seen elsewhere is you have the
+
+NOTE consult-omni
+
+00:33:39.856 --> 00:33:44.239
+consult-omni package which allows you to search multiple websites
+
+00:33:44.240 --> 00:33:49.799
+simultaneously for multiple web search engines. and put
+
+00:33:49.800 --> 00:33:52.799
+them in one thing and it's like, and then you use orderless.
+
+NOTE orderless
+
+00:33:52.800 --> 00:33:55.159
+Why would you use orderless? Because that's what you
+
+00:33:55.160 --> 00:33:57.799
+configured and you know exactly what you wanna use and you
+
+00:33:57.800 --> 00:34:01.679
+use the same font and your same mini buffer and you use all
+
+00:34:01.680 --> 00:34:04.079
+that existing configuration because, well, you're an
+
+00:34:04.080 --> 00:34:07.599
+Emacs user or like you're a command line user. You know how
+
+00:34:07.600 --> 00:34:11.559
+you want these applications to go. You don't want them to be
+
+00:34:11.560 --> 00:34:17.399
+reinvented the wheel 1600 times in 1,600 different ways,
+
+00:34:17.400 --> 00:34:23.079
+you want it to use your mini buffer, your font, your et
+
+00:34:23.080 --> 00:34:28.159
+cetera, et cetera, et cetera. But I haven't
+
+00:34:28.160 --> 00:34:32.479
+seen a website where I can search multiple websites at the
+
+00:34:32.480 --> 00:34:35.159
+same time in something like Emacs before. And it's like,
+
+00:34:35.160 --> 00:34:38.319
+yeah, with my sorting algorithm,
+
+00:34:38.320 --> 00:34:49.359
+Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, just setting the
+
+00:34:49.360 --> 00:34:57.079
+bar for configuration and set up just like, yeah, you have to
+
+00:34:57.080 --> 00:35:02.839
+have a list. Yeah. I mean, it, it does, obviously it's not,
+
+00:35:02.840 --> 00:35:05.839
+it's not most beginner beginner friendly, but I mean, it,
+
+00:35:05.840 --> 00:35:10.319
+yeah, it definitely widens the amount of the solution space
+
+00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:14.679
+you can have to such problems. Oh my gosh, you used the word
+
+00:35:14.680 --> 00:35:18.759
+solution space. I love it. But on the flip side, it's like,
+
+00:35:18.760 --> 00:35:25.119
+why does Emacs get this consult-omni package? Or let's see,
+
+00:35:25.120 --> 00:35:30.719
+you have elfeed-youtube where it will put a flowing
+
+00:35:30.720 --> 00:35:34.479
+transcript on a YouTube video or you got your package. Why
+
+00:35:34.480 --> 00:35:39.879
+does it get all these applications? And I don't see
+
+00:35:39.880 --> 00:35:45.679
+applications like this as much outside of Emacs. So there's
+
+00:35:45.680 --> 00:35:46.267
+a way that it just makes it easier.
+
+NOTE User interface
+
+00:35:46.268 --> 00:35:47.479
+It's because user
+
+00:35:47.480 --> 00:35:51.439
+interface is the, you know, it's the economy stupid of
+
+00:35:51.440 --> 00:35:58.119
+technology, right? If you grab people by the UX, you can sell
+
+00:35:58.120 --> 00:36:01.679
+a million of any product that solves problem that I didn't
+
+00:36:01.680 --> 00:36:04.639
+think technology could solve, or that I didn't think I had
+
+00:36:04.640 --> 00:36:08.319
+the patience to use technology to solve, which is a lot of
+
+00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:12.159
+times what it comes down to. And here exactly is the, you
+
+00:36:12.160 --> 00:36:16.799
+know, the the Emacs sort of conundrum, right? How much time
+
+00:36:16.800 --> 00:36:20.759
+should I spend today updating my Emacs so that tomorrow I can
+
+00:36:20.760 --> 00:36:26.319
+just work more, right? And, you know, I love that little
+
+00:36:26.320 --> 00:36:29.839
+graph of the Emacs learning curve, right? Where it's this
+
+00:36:29.840 --> 00:36:33.399
+concentric, it becomes this concentric spiral, right? The
+
+00:36:33.400 --> 00:36:38.759
+Vim learning curve is like a ladder, right? Or, you know, and
+
+00:36:38.760 --> 00:36:44.119
+And the nano learning curve is like just a flat plane, you
+
+00:36:44.120 --> 00:36:49.279
+know, or a ladder, a vertical ladder or a horizontal ladder.
+
+00:36:49.280 --> 00:36:56.719
+There we go. And the Emacs learning curve is this kind of
+
+00:36:56.720 --> 00:36:59.799
+straight up line until it curves back on itself and
+
+00:36:59.800 --> 00:37:03.079
+eventually spirals. And the more you learn, the harder it is
+
+00:37:03.080 --> 00:37:05.839
+to learn the next thing. And are you really moving forward at
+
+00:37:05.840 --> 00:37:09.039
+all? Like, it just works for me. What a great analogy. And
+
+00:37:09.040 --> 00:37:15.279
+that's my answer, I think. Yeah. You know, it's because
+
+00:37:15.280 --> 00:37:20.199
+we... The spiral is great. Sorry. There are each of these
+
+00:37:20.200 --> 00:37:26.639
+weird little packages that some of us, you know, it solves
+
+00:37:26.640 --> 00:37:29.279
+that one problem and lets us get back to work. And for others,
+
+00:37:29.280 --> 00:37:32.439
+it makes us go, gosh, now that makes me rethink a whole bunch
+
+00:37:32.440 --> 00:37:35.239
+of things because there's... Like I don't even know what
+
+00:37:35.240 --> 00:37:37.719
+you're talking about with some of your conceptualizations
+
+00:37:37.720 --> 00:37:41.039
+of UI. Maybe it comes from Visual Studio, and I've not
+
+00:37:41.040 --> 00:37:44.679
+used that or something. So for you, it's a perfectly normal UX
+
+00:37:44.680 --> 00:37:48.799
+paradigm that you kind of lean on for others. It's like you
+
+00:37:48.800 --> 00:37:51.999
+know occupying some screen space and I don't know what the
+
+00:37:52.000 --> 00:37:57.759
+gadgets do and when I open them up... They're thinking
+
+00:37:57.760 --> 00:38:00.999
+about... they have... they imply their own
+
+00:38:01.000 --> 00:38:03.639
+abstractions let's say logically against a programming
+
+00:38:03.640 --> 00:38:06.999
+language. This would be tree sitter, right. If i'm not used to
+
+00:38:07.000 --> 00:38:11.719
+thinking in terms of an abstract abstract syntax tree, some
+
+00:38:11.720 --> 00:38:14.799
+of the concepts just aren't as natural for me. If i'm used to
+
+00:38:14.800 --> 00:38:19.039
+like emacs at a more fundamental level is, or the old modes
+
+00:38:19.040 --> 00:38:23.479
+right, we're used to them thinking in terms of progressing
+
+00:38:23.480 --> 00:38:26.959
+forward through some text, managing a stack of markers into
+
+00:38:26.960 --> 00:38:29.239
+the text, right? It's a different paradigm. The world
+
+00:38:29.240 --> 00:38:33.559
+changes. Emacs kind of supports it all. That's why all the
+
+00:38:33.560 --> 00:38:37.039
+apps are built there. That's why when you're talking about
+
+00:38:37.040 --> 00:38:40.759
+that spiral. what that hints at is that this is really just a
+
+00:38:40.760 --> 00:38:44.239
+different algorithm that you're transferring out that
+
+00:38:44.240 --> 00:38:47.319
+makes some things a lot easier and some things a lot harder.
+
+00:38:47.320 --> 00:38:51.719
+That's why I was bringing in those three packages, because
+
+00:38:51.720 --> 00:38:59.708
+in some way it's making these search terms with reusable...
+
+00:38:59.709 --> 00:39:07.083
+Let's see... saveable buffers or interactive buffers in a way
+
+00:39:07.084 --> 00:39:10.359
+that... in a way, that is bigger than what I think it should have,
+
+00:39:10.360 --> 00:39:15.479
+especially in comparison to like how many people use
+
+00:39:15.480 --> 00:39:20.319
+YouTube, but I don't see very many YouTube apps that will
+
+00:39:20.320 --> 00:39:26.279
+show Rolling subtitle list that you can click on to move up
+
+00:39:26.280 --> 00:39:27.315
+and down the video
+
+00:39:27.316 --> 00:39:30.139
+even though YouTube's been around for years.
+
+00:39:30.140 --> 00:39:33.359
+Why does Emacs have a very good implementation
+
+00:39:33.360 --> 00:39:37.159
+that was duct taped together? So before I let you respond to
+
+00:39:37.160 --> 00:39:40.439
+that, Zac, let me just say we're coming up on eating up a
+
+00:39:40.440 --> 00:39:43.879
+whole half hour of your lunchtime and thank you for giving us
+
+00:39:43.880 --> 00:39:47.879
+that extra time. But let me just say, let's, you know, if I
+
+00:39:47.880 --> 00:39:50.879
+could ask you to take like up to another five minutes and then
+
+00:39:50.880 --> 00:39:53.759
+I'll try to kick us off here and make sure everybody does
+
+00:39:53.760 --> 00:39:54.999
+remember to eat.
+
+00:39:55.000 --> 00:40:04.119
+Yeah, so yeah, it looks like there's one other question. So
+
+NOTE Q: Do you think the Emacs being kinda slow will get in the way of being able to run a lot of scoring algorithms?
+
+00:40:04.120 --> 00:40:06.679
+yeah, do you think Emacs being kind of slow will get in the way
+
+00:40:06.680 --> 00:40:11.319
+of being able to run a lot of scoring algorithms? So this is
+
+00:40:11.320 --> 00:40:15.039
+actually a thought I had. Yeah, Emacs, because the code
+
+00:40:15.040 --> 00:40:19.919
+currently kind of does, I mean, it kind of does, it's kind of
+
+00:40:19.920 --> 00:40:24.039
+dumb in a lot of places. a lot of times it just, it does just go
+
+00:40:24.040 --> 00:40:27.599
+through all the files and then just compute some score for
+
+00:40:27.600 --> 00:40:30.679
+them. But I'm surprised that it's, that part actually isn't
+
+00:40:30.680 --> 00:40:34.799
+that slow. Like, like it turns out like, okay, like if you
+
+00:40:34.800 --> 00:40:40.759
+take, for example, Emacs, like the Emacs directory or the
+
+00:40:40.760 --> 00:40:44.879
+Emacs Git repository, or maybe another big Git repository,
+
+00:40:44.880 --> 00:40:49.079
+like you could have an Elisp function enumerate those, and
+
+00:40:49.080 --> 00:40:52.599
+multiply some numbers, maybe multiply 10 numbers
+
+00:40:52.600 --> 00:41:01.039
+together. And that isn't that slow. And that's the bulk of
+
+00:41:01.040 --> 00:41:05.799
+what the only thing that Elisp has to do is just like multiply
+
+00:41:05.800 --> 00:41:11.599
+these numbers. Obviously, if you have to resort to Elisp to
+
+00:41:11.600 --> 00:41:15.519
+search all the files and you have like 10 or 100,000 files,
+
+00:41:15.520 --> 00:41:18.759
+then yeah, Emacs will be slow
+
+00:41:18.760 --> 00:41:23.959
+to manually search, like if you're not using ripgrep or any
+
+00:41:23.960 --> 00:41:26.839
+faster tool and you have, and you have millions of files and
+
+00:41:26.840 --> 00:41:30.959
+yeah, it will be slow. But what I noticed though is like, for
+
+00:41:30.960 --> 00:41:35.119
+example, let's say you want to search for, let's say you want
+
+00:41:35.120 --> 00:41:40.199
+to search like info directory, like info files for Emacs and
+
+00:41:40.200 --> 00:41:46.039
+the Emacs info file and the Elisp info file. So those are two
+
+00:41:46.040 --> 00:41:49.279
+decently sized kind of books, kind of like reference
+
+00:41:49.280 --> 00:41:50.199
+material on Emacs.
+
+00:41:50.200 --> 00:41:55.999
+Relying on Elisp to search both of those together, it's
+
+00:41:56.000 --> 00:41:58.079
+actually pretty, it's actually like almost instant. I
+
+00:41:58.080 --> 00:42:00.639
+mean, it's not slow enough. So I think that's
+
+00:42:00.640 --> 00:42:03.679
+another thing is like scale. Like I think on, on kind of like
+
+00:42:03.680 --> 00:42:09.679
+individual human level scales, I think Elisp can be good
+
+00:42:09.680 --> 00:42:14.359
+enough. if you're going on the scale of like enterprise,
+
+00:42:14.360 --> 00:42:18.399
+like all the repositories, all the Git repositories of an
+
+00:42:18.400 --> 00:42:21.199
+enterprise, then yeah, that scale might, it might, it might
+
+00:42:21.200 --> 00:42:26.039
+be too much. But I think on, on the scale of what most
+
+00:42:26.040 --> 00:42:30.519
+individuals have to deal with on a daily basis, like for
+
+00:42:30.520 --> 00:42:34.719
+example, maybe somebody has some, yeah, I mean, I think it
+
+00:42:34.720 --> 00:42:36.959
+should, I think it hopefully should be enough. And if not,
+
+00:42:36.960 --> 00:42:39.639
+there's always room for optimizations.
+
+00:42:39.640 --> 00:42:55.999
+Yeah, so so I'll redirect you a little bit because based on a
+
+00:42:56.000 --> 00:43:00.279
+couple of things I got into, you know, or if you want to be done
+
+00:43:00.280 --> 00:43:04.759
+be like, you know, give me the hi sign by all means and we can
+
+00:43:04.760 --> 00:43:08.639
+we can shut up shop, but I'm curious, you know, what are what
+
+NOTE Boundary conditions
+
+00:43:08.640 --> 00:43:13.079
+are your boundary conditions? What what tends to cause you
+
+00:43:13.080 --> 00:43:16.679
+to to to write something more complicated and what what
+
+00:43:16.680 --> 00:43:20.959
+causes you to? So to work around it with more complex
+
+00:43:20.960 --> 00:43:23.559
+workflow in Emacs terms, like where do you break out the big
+
+00:43:23.560 --> 00:43:27.919
+guns? Just thinking about, like search, we talked about,
+
+00:43:27.920 --> 00:43:31.439
+maybe that's too abstract a question, but just general
+
+00:43:31.440 --> 00:43:36.679
+usage. Search is an example where almost all of us have
+
+00:43:36.680 --> 00:43:39.599
+probably written something to go find something, right?
+
+00:43:39.600 --> 00:43:43.519
+Yeah, I mean, this is a good question. I'm actually of the
+
+00:43:43.520 --> 00:43:51.999
+idea, at my work, for example, I tried to get rid of all, I
+
+00:43:52.000 --> 00:43:54.879
+mean, this is probably a typical Emacs user thing, but like,
+
+00:43:54.880 --> 00:43:59.319
+I mean, I think that just like getting, just like having
+
+00:43:59.320 --> 00:44:02.559
+Emacs expand to whatever it can get into and whatever it can
+
+00:44:02.560 --> 00:44:08.839
+automate, like any task, any, like, just like the more you
+
+00:44:08.840 --> 00:44:13.719
+can kind of get that coded, I actually find that kind of like,
+
+00:44:13.720 --> 00:44:20.439
+I mean, it is kind of like a meme. Like, yeah, I have to
+
+00:44:20.440 --> 00:44:24.199
+configure my Emacs until it's fun, and then I'll do it. But I
+
+00:44:24.200 --> 00:44:27.959
+actually I actually think that maybe for like a normal
+
+00:44:27.960 --> 00:44:31.999
+software developer, if you invest, if you invest, maybe,
+
+00:44:32.000 --> 00:44:34.839
+maybe you have like some spare time after you've done all
+
+00:44:34.840 --> 00:44:39.679
+your tasks, if you invest all that time in, in just like kind
+
+00:44:39.680 --> 00:44:42.359
+of going through all the workflows, all the, you know, just,
+
+00:44:42.360 --> 00:44:46.279
+just getting all of that in, in Emacs, then I think that that,
+
+00:44:46.280 --> 00:44:52.039
+that acts as kind of like a, it kind of like a productivity
+
+00:44:52.040 --> 00:44:56.759
+multiplier. And so. So I found that, I mean, I found to not
+
+00:44:56.760 --> 00:44:59.519
+have those boundaries. I mean, obviously there's things
+
+00:44:59.520 --> 00:45:04.599
+you can't do, like web-based things. I mean, that's a hard
+
+00:45:04.600 --> 00:45:10.199
+boundary, but that's more because... Yeah, there's really
+
+00:45:10.200 --> 00:45:13.719
+not much to do about that. Nobody's written a front-end
+
+00:45:13.720 --> 00:45:18.759
+engine, and too much of the forebrain is occupied with
+
+00:45:18.760 --> 00:45:22.559
+things that should happen on the "end-users
+
+00:45:22.560 --> 00:45:29.839
+infrastructure", so to speak. So with like 40 seconds left, I
+
+00:45:29.840 --> 00:45:33.519
+was going to say a minute, but I guess, any final thoughts?
+
+00:45:33.520 --> 00:45:40.159
+Yeah, I mean, just thank you for listening, and And thank you
+
+00:45:40.160 --> 00:45:45.559
+for putting this on. It's a really nice conference to have,
+
+00:45:45.560 --> 00:45:50.679
+and I'm glad things like this exist. So thank you. Yeah, it's
+
+00:45:50.680 --> 00:45:54.639
+you and the other folks on this call. Thank you so much,
+
+00:45:54.640 --> 00:45:58.639
+PlasmaStrike, and all the rest of you for hopping on the BBB
+
+00:45:58.640 --> 00:46:03.119
+and having such an interesting discussion. Keeps it really
+
+00:46:03.120 --> 00:46:08.239
+fun for us as organizers. And thanks, everybody, for being
+
+00:46:08.240 --> 00:46:21.320
+here.
diff --git a/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-papers--writing-academic-papers-in-orgroam--vincent-conus--answers.vtt b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-papers--writing-academic-papers-in-orgroam--vincent-conus--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..392644e1
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-papers--writing-academic-papers-in-orgroam--vincent-conus--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,833 @@
+WEBVTT indexed by sachac
+
+00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.639
+mentally over the next couple of days, but I can assure you
+
+00:00:04.640 --> 00:00:06.759
+that it will be many organizers in the background also
+
+00:00:06.760 --> 00:00:10.199
+working. You'll probably get to see us later on. But for now,
+
+00:00:10.200 --> 00:00:13.639
+without further ado, I want to say hi to Vincent. Hi,
+
+00:00:13.640 --> 00:00:19.039
+Vincent. Hi, thanks for having me. Yeah, and thanks for
+
+00:00:19.040 --> 00:00:22.919
+coming and thanks for presenting. I mean, you didn't decide
+
+00:00:22.920 --> 00:00:25.639
+to go first. It's mostly the time zone for you which decided
+
+00:00:25.640 --> 00:00:28.919
+for you because I believe you are in Japan, correctly. Yeah,
+
+00:00:28.920 --> 00:00:33.039
+exactly. So I'm living there now and it's very late. It's
+
+00:00:33.040 --> 00:00:37.319
+really funny to see everyone saying good morning in the
+
+00:00:37.320 --> 00:00:39.959
+chat. It's always the same for me. So personally, I'm in
+
+00:00:39.960 --> 00:00:43.959
+France. So for me, it's only 3 p.m. For you, it's probably 9 or
+
+00:00:43.960 --> 00:00:47.959
+10 p.m. if I'm correct. Already 11 here, yeah. It's already
+
+00:00:47.960 --> 00:00:53.519
+11, so thank you for staying up so late for us. And how about we
+
+00:00:53.520 --> 00:00:55.639
+just get started with the questions because you've just
+
+00:00:55.640 --> 00:00:59.239
+presented something that is very dear to my heart, which is
+
+00:00:59.240 --> 00:01:01.959
+writing academic paper with Org Mode, which is, for the
+
+00:01:01.960 --> 00:01:05.279
+record, how I got started with Org Roam and stuff like this.
+
+00:01:05.280 --> 00:01:08.799
+So, unless you've got anything else to add on top of your
+
+00:01:08.800 --> 00:01:11.839
+presentation that wasn't able to fit in, I suggest we just
+
+00:01:11.840 --> 00:01:16.559
+start taking questions. All right. So yeah, right now I'm
+
+00:01:16.560 --> 00:01:19.439
+reading the question from IRC and also from the pad. So I
+
+00:01:19.440 --> 00:01:23.159
+guess I'm gonna take what's already written there.
+
+NOTE Q: I'd be interested how to start this journey of writing academic papers in Org-Roam when not having used Emacs Org-Mode yet? Thanks!
+
+00:01:23.160 --> 00:01:27.359
+So the first one is asking, I'd be interested in how to start this
+
+00:01:27.360 --> 00:01:30.239
+journey to write academic paper in org-roam when not having
+
+00:01:30.240 --> 00:01:36.639
+used Emacs org mode yet. So I saw this one before and I guess it
+
+00:01:36.640 --> 00:01:43.039
+would be possible to do that, to use Org documents only
+
+00:01:43.040 --> 00:01:46.759
+as the way that you are writing papers. Maybe you can
+
+00:01:46.760 --> 00:01:51.959
+just use that as a template that you're going to export.
+
+00:01:51.960 --> 00:01:54.959
+If you are familiar with LaTeX, it's going to be more useful,
+
+00:01:54.960 --> 00:01:59.599
+and maybe more convenient to work with inside of
+
+00:01:59.600 --> 00:02:04.999
+Emacs. But then I'm not 100% sure if that's... How do you say
+
+00:02:05.000 --> 00:02:10.799
+that? Maybe, in my opinion, the benefits of using
+
+00:02:10.800 --> 00:02:14.679
+org-roam in that setup is that you can link the things. For
+
+00:02:14.680 --> 00:02:18.839
+me, I'm using the search function for org-roam to just
+
+00:02:18.840 --> 00:02:21.959
+navigate between the files. So that's really some, a good
+
+00:02:21.960 --> 00:02:26.119
+advantage, but like, yeah, that could be, like Leo said in
+
+00:02:26.120 --> 00:02:28.039
+the presentation, that's some, maybe that's something you
+
+00:02:28.040 --> 00:02:35.839
+can start using org-mode with to write papers. So yeah.
+
+NOTE Q: How about connecting Emacs Org-Roam to Zotero? Is that something you have experience with?
+
+00:02:35.840 --> 00:02:38.879
+Second question. So how about connecting Emacs or Roam
+
+00:02:38.880 --> 00:02:42.079
+to Zotero? Is that something that you have experience with?
+
+00:02:42.080 --> 00:02:47.119
+Not at all. Actually, I used briefly Zotero in the past and I
+
+00:02:47.120 --> 00:02:51.439
+really didn't like it or didn't really get into that. I don't
+
+00:02:51.440 --> 00:02:55.599
+know. But right now,
+
+NOTE Q: Out of curiosity, how do you manage your bibliography? Do you do it from inside Emacs, or using a separate program like Zotero?
+
+00:02:55.600 --> 00:03:00.319
+I don't connect that at all. The question after, out of
+
+00:03:00.320 --> 00:03:03.559
+curiosity, how do you manage your bibliography? Do you do it
+
+00:03:03.560 --> 00:03:06.519
+from inside Emacs or using a separate program, ex: Zotero?
+
+00:03:06.520 --> 00:03:09.119
+Because personally, I have struggled to do it from Emacs,
+
+00:03:09.120 --> 00:03:13.879
+though I have wanted to for some time. So the way I manage that
+
+00:03:13.880 --> 00:03:20.799
+is I just have a couple of .bib files that I edit by hand, where
+
+00:03:20.800 --> 00:03:25.359
+I put the reference when I find them.
+
+00:03:25.360 --> 00:03:28.599
+And yeah, I just showed very briefly in the presentation,
+
+00:03:28.600 --> 00:03:34.119
+but the way.
+
+00:03:34.120 --> 00:03:39.519
+One of the great thing with the org reference system is that
+
+00:03:39.520 --> 00:03:43.239
+if you have your bibliographic files that are connected to
+
+00:03:43.240 --> 00:03:47.959
+that system, you can just like, you can put the link, the
+
+00:03:47.960 --> 00:03:51.879
+reference to the paper, like click on it from your org note,
+
+00:03:51.880 --> 00:03:56.479
+and then you can open the PDF. You can open the DOI link to open
+
+00:03:56.480 --> 00:04:00.719
+the whatever publisher page.
+
+00:04:00.720 --> 00:04:10.159
+So no, I don't use Zotero and I just edit bib or bib files by
+
+00:04:10.160 --> 00:04:12.959
+hand in Emacs.
+
+00:04:12.960 --> 00:04:16.159
+I was just going to add something because you know
+
+00:04:16.160 --> 00:04:20.919
+org-roam-bibtex is actually one of the packages that I
+
+00:04:20.920 --> 00:04:25.279
+developed and I got it working with Zotero because for me it
+
+00:04:25.280 --> 00:04:28.839
+was convenient. I was studying humanities and for me it was
+
+00:04:28.840 --> 00:04:32.599
+very easy to connect reference taken in my browser with
+
+00:04:32.600 --> 00:04:36.799
+Zotero and just post-processing them a little bit but it is
+
+00:04:36.800 --> 00:04:40.279
+possible to make org-roam, org-roam-bibtex and Zotero
+
+00:04:40.280 --> 00:04:44.959
+work together. But it's a little bit of an involved process to
+
+00:04:44.960 --> 00:04:49.439
+get everything working in Emacs.
+
+00:04:49.440 --> 00:04:54.519
+Yeah, for sure. And
+
+00:04:54.520 --> 00:05:01.999
+yeah, I guess the way I'm doing it, I understand the appeal
+
+00:05:02.000 --> 00:05:03.839
+for having it integrated in the browser. Maybe
+
+00:05:03.840 --> 00:05:06.279
+that's something I should look up, actually, because right
+
+00:05:06.280 --> 00:05:09.359
+now I just like doing it very much by hand, like going on the
+
+00:05:09.360 --> 00:05:15.199
+publisher page and copying the bibtex block and
+
+00:05:15.200 --> 00:05:20.039
+just using putting that in my file. Yes, it can be not a very
+
+00:05:20.040 --> 00:05:23.359
+efficient workflow on that side. But after that, you're
+
+00:05:23.360 --> 00:05:26.599
+having the PDF and having it inside the note.
+
+00:05:26.600 --> 00:05:30.759
+Yeah, it's great. Yeah. To some extent, it kind of depends on
+
+00:05:30.760 --> 00:05:33.319
+the reference system that is used by the field in which you
+
+00:05:33.320 --> 00:05:36.279
+are or the university in which you're publishing. Because
+
+00:05:36.280 --> 00:05:39.519
+sometimes, you know, you're going to have some basic BibTeX
+
+00:05:39.520 --> 00:05:41.479
+file and sometimes you're going to have better BibTeX
+
+00:05:41.480 --> 00:05:44.959
+files. And those are very different metadata that you need
+
+00:05:44.960 --> 00:05:49.119
+to reconcile. And depending on which LaTeX compiler you're
+
+00:05:49.120 --> 00:05:52.439
+using, be it zLaTeX[??], be it regular LaTeX, lualatex, it's
+
+00:05:52.440 --> 00:05:55.439
+going to be all different. So it's a whole can of worms that
+
+00:05:55.440 --> 00:05:57.799
+I'm not sure we want to be opening now. But if you are
+
+00:05:57.800 --> 00:06:00.999
+interested and if you're not too attached about getting
+
+00:06:01.000 --> 00:06:03.679
+everything right, it's really easy to get started with
+
+00:06:03.680 --> 00:06:06.319
+stuff like org-roam-bibtex. It's supposed to get you
+
+00:06:06.320 --> 00:06:11.319
+most of the way down to a working setup. And if you need to get
+
+00:06:11.320 --> 00:06:14.359
+everything working down to the comma based on your
+
+00:06:14.360 --> 00:06:16.479
+reference system, that's going to be a little harder. But
+
+00:06:16.480 --> 00:06:19.439
+it's possible. I managed to do it and many people actually
+
+00:06:19.440 --> 00:06:22.599
+managed to do it. Okay, anyway, so let's move on to the next
+
+NOTE Q: How do you start a new document?
+
+00:06:22.600 --> 00:06:26.679
+question. All right, so the next question asking how do you
+
+00:06:26.680 --> 00:06:30.999
+start a new document? There are a lot of headers you have to
+
+00:06:31.000 --> 00:06:34.639
+set up. Do you use a template? I'm curious if you use your
+
+00:06:34.640 --> 00:06:38.839
+snippets to deal with all of these LaTeX org metacommands.
+
+00:06:38.840 --> 00:06:44.759
+So I don't use a snippets template of any kind for that.
+
+00:06:44.760 --> 00:06:47.279
+Probably I should. That's actually a good idea. I'm
+
+00:06:47.280 --> 00:06:51.279
+probably going to look into that. No, the way I do actually is
+
+00:06:51.280 --> 00:06:56.199
+I just reuse some previous documents. I copy it, delete all
+
+00:06:56.200 --> 00:07:01.439
+the contents and adjust it until it works the way I like.
+
+00:07:01.440 --> 00:07:09.679
+The main issue in general after that step is to make it work
+
+00:07:09.680 --> 00:07:13.999
+with the template I receive and Let's say if I have some
+
+00:07:14.000 --> 00:07:20.839
+template that needs to work with another LaTeX compiler,
+
+00:07:20.840 --> 00:07:26.599
+I'm probably going to try to copy an existing file that I have
+
+00:07:26.600 --> 00:07:30.959
+that uses the same compiler to save me some work. But yeah,
+
+00:07:30.960 --> 00:07:37.119
+no, I don't use any snippet or something. Probably I should,
+
+00:07:37.120 --> 00:07:40.879
+but I'm just doing it the quick and dirty way to just copy some
+
+00:07:40.880 --> 00:07:41.719
+existing thing.
+
+NOTE Q: What do you think of using citar with org-roam-bibtex?
+
+00:07:41.720 --> 00:07:48.319
+Then what do you think of citar with org-roam-bibtex? It seems
+
+00:07:48.320 --> 00:07:55.999
+that bibtex completion is tied to org-roam-bibtex. I don't
+
+00:07:56.000 --> 00:08:02.079
+know. I never really looked into citar that much. I
+
+00:08:02.080 --> 00:08:06.799
+don't know about that. I don't know either, so I'm not going
+
+00:08:06.800 --> 00:08:07.759
+to be able to help on this one.
+
+00:08:07.760 --> 00:08:17.119
+Because yeah, the bibtex completion is tied to the overall
+
+00:08:17.120 --> 00:08:24.799
+bibtex. I guess so. So what I'm interpreting, because I do,
+
+00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:30.039
+so BibTeX completion is the single motor that drives helm
+
+00:08:30.040 --> 00:08:32.719
+BibTeX and Ivy BibTeX. Perhaps there's another
+
+00:08:32.720 --> 00:08:35.679
+alternative now that is using the Vertico stack for
+
+00:08:35.680 --> 00:08:40.399
+completion. But org-roam-bibtex was interfacing with BibTeX
+
+00:08:40.400 --> 00:08:46.679
+completion to retrieve all the references from a bib file.
+
+00:08:46.680 --> 00:08:50.599
+and I assume citar would be something very similar in a way
+
+00:08:50.600 --> 00:08:54.039
+that it interfaces with a bib file, but I couldn't tell you
+
+00:08:54.040 --> 00:08:57.439
+more. I need to explore a little more and sadly I haven't
+
+00:08:57.440 --> 00:09:00.759
+touched any of this stack in like three years, so I'm a little
+
+00:09:00.760 --> 00:09:03.199
+out of touch. I guess this is what comes with leaving
+
+00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:07.519
+academia to go work as a corporate developer. I'm no longer
+
+00:09:07.520 --> 00:09:10.319
+so interested in the publishing process, even though I'm
+
+00:09:10.320 --> 00:09:12.799
+obviously very appreciative of people who still do, and
+
+00:09:12.800 --> 00:09:13.679
+especially people who use
+
+00:09:13.680 --> 00:09:20.239
+Yeah, same here. I definitely going to look into the citar
+
+00:09:20.240 --> 00:09:23.399
+package to see what's possible. Maybe can be using in some
+
+00:09:23.400 --> 00:09:26.319
+way that is useful for me. Yeah.
+
+NOTE Q: Most academic journals insist that papers are formatted in their own custom LaTeX documentclass.  Does org-roam make it easy to do that?
+
+00:09:26.320 --> 00:09:30.919
+And if I go to the next question, so most academic journal
+
+00:09:30.920 --> 00:09:33.639
+insist that paper are formatted in their own custom LaTeX
+
+00:09:33.640 --> 00:09:38.199
+document class. Does org-roam make it easy to do that? The
+
+00:09:38.200 --> 00:09:43.239
+answer is no. That's mostly what I was presenting in the
+
+00:09:43.240 --> 00:09:44.279
+slide.
+
+00:09:44.280 --> 00:09:50.839
+Actually, that's also why I made the presentation, because
+
+00:09:50.840 --> 00:09:59.759
+if someone has a solution, I would gladly take it. No, the way
+
+00:09:59.760 --> 00:10:05.079
+I do it is that I have to add a I don't have that on top of my head.
+
+00:10:05.080 --> 00:10:10.599
+plus. Yeah, exactly. So I just make a custom class with the
+
+00:10:10.600 --> 00:10:16.159
+name of the latex template. In general, I think people use
+
+00:10:16.160 --> 00:10:19.359
+that to redefine like stuff like section and subsection,
+
+00:10:19.360 --> 00:10:24.279
+but for me, I just, it shows in the slide where I just map the
+
+00:10:24.280 --> 00:10:27.239
+section to the same section. I just changed the name of the
+
+00:10:27.240 --> 00:10:33.719
+class. And this way it allows to import the, the CLS and then
+
+00:10:33.720 --> 00:10:39.079
+the rest is just like putting the tech template that is
+
+00:10:39.080 --> 00:10:48.519
+provided either in headers, in LaTeX headers at the top or
+
+00:10:48.520 --> 00:10:56.079
+Yeah, or just on a LaTeX block in the body of the document if
+
+00:10:56.080 --> 00:11:02.039
+that's needed, for example, for the acknowledgement.
+
+00:11:02.040 --> 00:11:05.759
+Sometimes they need some different formatting, but no,
+
+00:11:05.760 --> 00:11:09.079
+it's not really easy because it needs to modify some
+
+00:11:09.080 --> 00:11:12.359
+configuration in Unix to do that. Then after that, a little
+
+00:11:12.360 --> 00:11:15.719
+bit like manually adapt the templates into your org notes.
+
+00:11:15.720 --> 00:11:18.799
+So that's a little bit some upfront work to do. But once it's
+
+00:11:18.800 --> 00:11:22.159
+done, your notes are going to be exported exactly like the
+
+00:11:22.160 --> 00:11:27.319
+template and you don't have to worry about it. Yeah, it's an
+
+00:11:27.320 --> 00:11:32.679
+interesting topic because the thing about, on one side, you
+
+00:11:32.680 --> 00:11:36.159
+know, you want to have, when you're using LaTeX, it kind of
+
+00:11:36.160 --> 00:11:39.359
+translates into you caring a lot about the document that you
+
+00:11:39.360 --> 00:11:42.879
+produce. Either you care about how quickly you can turn a
+
+00:11:42.880 --> 00:11:46.719
+plain text document into a very nicely formatted PDF at the
+
+00:11:46.720 --> 00:11:52.239
+end, or, you know, you just care about the output of your
+
+00:11:52.240 --> 00:11:54.439
+documents, making sure that everything is properly
+
+00:11:54.440 --> 00:11:57.039
+formatted. We were talking about references just before,
+
+00:11:57.040 --> 00:12:00.239
+you know, the formatting rule for references are highly
+
+00:12:00.240 --> 00:12:04.319
+dependent upon the manual that you're using and, you know,
+
+00:12:04.320 --> 00:12:07.159
+some people really care about this. And what I found in my
+
+00:12:07.160 --> 00:12:09.799
+particular experience, my own personal experience
+
+00:12:09.800 --> 00:12:15.199
+writing for academia, was that I was more in the latter crowd
+
+00:12:15.200 --> 00:12:17.839
+that really cared about the output format and making sure
+
+00:12:17.840 --> 00:12:20.599
+everything was correct and it's really a struggle to get
+
+00:12:20.600 --> 00:12:23.519
+everything working especially when you're transpiling
+
+00:12:23.520 --> 00:12:27.199
+from Org Mode documents straight into LaTeX. You're
+
+00:12:27.200 --> 00:12:30.119
+obviously going to be resorting to a number of hacks to get
+
+00:12:30.120 --> 00:12:32.439
+everything working like Vincent just mentioned with the
+
+00:12:32.440 --> 00:12:36.519
+class or you're going to end up with many imported files just
+
+00:12:36.520 --> 00:12:39.999
+to get everything working, but really you're fighting
+
+00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:42.839
+against the tide if you want to get something a little
+
+00:12:42.840 --> 00:12:45.759
+different from what is shipping with Walmart. Maybe
+
+00:12:45.760 --> 00:12:48.479
+everything has gotten better since I was writing my papers,
+
+00:12:48.480 --> 00:12:53.879
+but generally... Kindly disagree. Yeah, go on. I kindly
+
+00:12:53.880 --> 00:12:57.159
+disagree. I actually, I'm surprised that a lot of template
+
+00:12:57.160 --> 00:13:00.679
+is so complex that you don't just change the document class,
+
+00:13:00.680 --> 00:13:03.359
+but also need to do something else. I'd say it's rather
+
+00:13:03.360 --> 00:13:05.919
+uncommon. I guess it depends on the area of your search.
+
+00:13:05.920 --> 00:13:12.599
+Yeah, exactly. I mean, that's it. It just needs CLS and
+
+00:13:12.600 --> 00:13:17.559
+that's all. Yeah, but it really depends on, as you said, on
+
+00:13:17.560 --> 00:13:19.639
+the field in which you're publishing. Some fields are a
+
+00:13:19.640 --> 00:13:22.599
+little more lax with their rules. And just the fact that you
+
+00:13:22.600 --> 00:13:26.479
+can introduce mathematic formulas kind of makes LaTeX the
+
+00:13:26.480 --> 00:13:29.919
+de facto for publishing math documents. But when you're
+
+00:13:29.920 --> 00:13:33.599
+doing humanities, they're more attached to other kinds of
+
+00:13:33.600 --> 00:13:36.879
+formatting. So I think things are much better, anyway,
+
+00:13:36.880 --> 00:13:42.919
+since I started five years ago. Oh, yeah. I have heard from
+
+00:13:42.920 --> 00:13:46.639
+humanities people Microsoft Word. Yes. Sadly, that's the
+
+00:13:46.640 --> 00:13:51.879
+format we're fighting against. Yeah. As for document,
+
+00:13:51.880 --> 00:13:57.079
+yeah, for LaTeX classes, it is a customization and it is the
+
+00:13:57.080 --> 00:14:00.319
+right way to customize this thing, that's all. I'm not sure
+
+00:14:00.320 --> 00:14:03.999
+why it's a hack. It's not a hack. It's an actual user
+
+00:14:04.000 --> 00:14:08.959
+customization. Right. So, we've got about four more
+
+00:14:08.960 --> 00:14:13.559
+minutes of question. Vincent, we've got a couple of Yeah. So
+
+00:14:13.560 --> 00:14:15.319
+I've got a little voice talking in my ear telling me that
+
+00:14:15.320 --> 00:14:17.839
+exactly the same thing. So we've got about two more
+
+00:14:17.840 --> 00:14:21.159
+questions. Vincent, do you want to field them? Sure. So, are
+
+NOTE Q: Are you using zotra or org-ref?
+
+00:14:21.160 --> 00:14:27.799
+you using Zotra (sending some link) or org-ref? No, I don't.
+
+00:14:27.800 --> 00:14:31.879
+I've never heard of Zotra, actually. Looking that very
+
+00:14:31.880 --> 00:14:34.639
+briefly. That's something I'm going to have to look into.
+
+00:14:34.640 --> 00:14:38.519
+Apparently, the short for Zotero translator, so that might
+
+00:14:38.520 --> 00:14:41.759
+be something useful for me since I'm not using Zotero yet,
+
+00:14:41.760 --> 00:14:45.119
+maybe trying to combine. But no, I've never really tried
+
+NOTE Q: How much of this is tied to org-roam specifically?
+
+00:14:45.120 --> 00:14:52.519
+these, but I will. Then the last question, how much of this is
+
+00:14:52.520 --> 00:14:59.479
+tied to Org-roam specifically? Not a lot. Actually apart
+
+00:14:59.480 --> 00:15:02.959
+from the org-roam-bibtex, I think.
+
+00:15:02.960 --> 00:15:11.919
+Maybe I'm mixing up stuff there. But no, not a lot actually.
+
+00:15:11.920 --> 00:15:14.999
+It's just the fact that I'm using that as a in my org-roam
+
+00:15:15.000 --> 00:15:22.159
+system. But apart from that, most of, I mean, actually all of
+
+00:15:22.160 --> 00:15:27.519
+the exports can be done from a normal org-note or any other
+
+00:15:27.520 --> 00:15:31.799
+knowledge management system that you do with org-notes. So
+
+00:15:31.800 --> 00:15:34.119
+no, it's not specifically tied to org-roam, just that
+
+00:15:34.120 --> 00:15:38.399
+that's the way I'm using it. And I'm showing it this way, but
+
+00:15:38.400 --> 00:15:41.759
+yeah, actually the export process can be, can be done with,
+
+00:15:41.760 --> 00:15:49.839
+Yes, specifically tight work room. Yeah, just confirming
+
+00:15:49.840 --> 00:15:54.519
+this, the only way Org Roam intervenes into this process is
+
+00:15:54.520 --> 00:15:57.439
+just referencing
+
+00:15:57.440 --> 00:16:00.319
+bibliography elements. It just kind of intercedes a little
+
+00:16:00.320 --> 00:16:03.319
+bit between what Org Roam usually does. But when it comes to
+
+00:16:03.320 --> 00:16:08.759
+the exports to LaTeX and PDF eventually, that's completely
+
+00:16:08.760 --> 00:16:13.279
+deferring to org exports. So, ox-latex and all of this. So,
+
+00:16:13.280 --> 00:16:16.039
+we are not intervening in any way into this transpiling
+
+00:16:16.040 --> 00:16:20.719
+format. One comment. Yeah, I don't know if I imagine it is,
+
+00:16:20.720 --> 00:16:25.759
+but it looked from the slides that it was our graph was it.
+
+00:16:25.760 --> 00:16:35.439
+Sorry, that it was? org-ref, org-ref.
+
+00:16:35.440 --> 00:16:42.719
+Yes. Because it is a link system for citations. Built-in
+
+00:16:42.720 --> 00:16:46.359
+citations, which is, there is a built-in citation system in
+
+00:16:46.360 --> 00:16:50.639
+art mode. It uses, it doesn't use links. It has a special way
+
+00:16:50.640 --> 00:16:57.359
+to cite things. Yeah, because I believe, yeah, go on please,
+
+00:16:57.360 --> 00:17:01.519
+Vincent. No, I just wanted to say, in that case, I'm using the
+
+00:17:01.520 --> 00:17:10.119
+link with the cite command. I'm not using the org-roam link
+
+00:17:10.120 --> 00:17:14.079
+for the reference. I didn't really show that very
+
+00:17:14.080 --> 00:17:17.679
+carefully. But then, yeah, it's a site element that is
+
+00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:21.639
+exported. So the roam part is just like, you can access the
+
+00:17:21.640 --> 00:17:26.519
+org notes that you have attached to a reference paper. But
+
+00:17:26.520 --> 00:17:31.879
+that's it. Okay, because I was confused by why the
+
+00:17:31.880 --> 00:17:35.919
+bibliography is a link, why style is a link, because it is the
+
+00:17:35.920 --> 00:17:37.239
+approach org-ref uses.
+
+00:17:37.240 --> 00:17:47.839
+Ah, right. Okay, I see. Yeah, the thing is, actually I don't
+
+00:17:47.840 --> 00:17:52.159
+know why, but In my experience, using the org-roam,
+
+00:17:52.160 --> 00:17:57.599
+org-roam-bibtex links doesn't export or doesn't export
+
+00:17:57.600 --> 00:18:01.999
+properly. So like adding them with the org-ref-cite worked
+
+00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:05.359
+better. So that's, that's why I'm using these. If I may
+
+00:18:05.360 --> 00:18:07.439
+interject. If you're using org-ref-cite, you're using
+
+00:18:07.440 --> 00:18:11.319
+org-ref-for-export, which is slightly different. I'm
+
+00:18:11.320 --> 00:18:14.039
+going to interject very quickly because sadly we are a
+
+00:18:14.040 --> 00:18:15.919
+little pressed for time because we are heading into the next
+
+00:18:15.920 --> 00:18:18.559
+discussion. So just very quickly, if you want to continue
+
+00:18:18.560 --> 00:18:21.279
+the discussion, the BBB room is available at
+
+00:18:21.280 --> 00:18:24.319
+emacsconf-org. You can go to the talk and get the link to join
+
+00:18:24.320 --> 00:18:27.319
+the BBB. And the stream will be moving on to the next stream in
+
+00:18:27.320 --> 00:18:30.239
+about 5 to 10 seconds. So I'll see you on the other side. And
+
+00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:36.439
+thank you, Vincent. Thank you. All right, sorry for cutting
+
+00:18:36.440 --> 00:18:38.839
+a little abruptly. It's because we use crontabs to move to
+
+00:18:38.840 --> 00:18:42.519
+the next talk. And sadly, I don't have any leeway on this. So
+
+00:18:42.520 --> 00:18:45.279
+feel free to continue the discussion. I'll be moving on to
+
+00:18:45.280 --> 00:18:48.639
+make sure everything is working. So enjoy the discussion.
+
+00:18:48.640 --> 00:19:00.720
+Thank you very much. Bye-bye.
diff --git a/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-pgmacs--pgmacs-browsing-and-editing-postgresql-databases-from-emacs--eric-marsden--answers.vtt b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-pgmacs--pgmacs-browsing-and-editing-postgresql-databases-from-emacs--eric-marsden--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..c361ae62
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-pgmacs--pgmacs-browsing-and-editing-postgresql-databases-from-emacs--eric-marsden--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,873 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:10.839
+And I believe we are live. Hi, Eric, how are you doing? Very
+
+00:00:10.840 --> 00:00:15.599
+well, thanks. It's a pleasure to have you as one of our
+
+00:00:15.600 --> 00:00:19.639
+speakers but it's also very nice to see you present about
+
+00:00:19.640 --> 00:00:24.239
+pgmacs because I found your talk to be very didactic and very
+
+00:00:24.240 --> 00:00:26.479
+visual. So thank you for taking the time to do a very nice
+
+00:00:26.480 --> 00:00:31.079
+presentation. I wanted to give the opportunity as I do with
+
+00:00:31.080 --> 00:00:36.279
+other speakers to maybe talk about some stuff that you could
+
+00:00:36.280 --> 00:00:39.279
+not include into the talk because of the format. So is there
+
+00:00:39.280 --> 00:00:41.319
+anything you'd like to share with the viewers that you
+
+00:00:41.320 --> 00:00:45.439
+weren't able to include?
+
+00:00:45.440 --> 00:00:50.719
+Oh, I think I gave most of the most of the relevant
+
+00:00:50.720 --> 00:00:54.759
+information. This is a fairly young application. I've been
+
+00:00:54.760 --> 00:00:58.159
+developing this since roughly the beginning of the year. So
+
+00:00:58.160 --> 00:01:02.879
+there are probably some rough edges that people will run
+
+00:01:02.880 --> 00:01:07.479
+into if they use Postgres differently from what I do. Or they
+
+00:01:07.480 --> 00:01:10.919
+hear maybe conflicts with some other Emacs packages that
+
+00:01:10.920 --> 00:01:14.959
+people use that I don't use. So I would really welcome people
+
+00:01:14.960 --> 00:01:19.359
+trying it out and sending out bug reports if they do
+
+00:01:19.360 --> 00:01:23.479
+encounter some. Yeah, I mean, it's usually... Go on,
+
+00:01:23.480 --> 00:01:29.079
+please. Yeah, that would certainly help to make sure it's
+
+00:01:29.080 --> 00:01:31.599
+nice and robust. And of course, if you're letting this loose
+
+00:01:31.600 --> 00:01:35.959
+on some production database that you might have, you want
+
+00:01:35.960 --> 00:01:41.239
+this to be quite robust, obviously. Yeah, indeed. Because
+
+00:01:41.240 --> 00:01:43.879
+usually, you know, when you start publishing packages like
+
+00:01:43.880 --> 00:01:46.599
+this, that's when you realize that it has bad interaction
+
+00:01:46.600 --> 00:01:49.759
+with other modes in the Emacs of other persons. But
+
+00:01:49.760 --> 00:01:52.039
+especially when you're dealing with databases, you also
+
+00:01:52.040 --> 00:01:54.639
+realize that the domain space of what you're trying to do
+
+00:01:54.640 --> 00:01:58.999
+with your mode also is hugely dependent on what people have
+
+00:01:59.000 --> 00:02:03.839
+in their database, which schema they have. So, indeed, if
+
+00:02:03.840 --> 00:02:05.839
+you have been interested, and I think plenty of people have
+
+00:02:05.840 --> 00:02:09.039
+been interested by what you've presented, part of the
+
+00:02:09.040 --> 00:02:11.679
+reason a software becomes great is that you've got plenty of
+
+00:02:11.680 --> 00:02:14.759
+people making bug reports and making sure that all the
+
+00:02:14.760 --> 00:02:18.799
+faults have been ironed out. So, you know what your task is. I
+
+00:02:18.800 --> 00:02:21.319
+will also ask you, particularly right now, people
+
+00:02:21.320 --> 00:02:24.519
+currently viewing, to add your questions on the pad as
+
+00:02:24.520 --> 00:02:27.639
+usual, because you've had plenty of nice reactions, but I'm
+
+00:02:27.640 --> 00:02:30.799
+sure you have plenty of questions as well. So Eric, what I'll
+
+00:02:30.800 --> 00:02:33.759
+be doing, I'll be reading you the questions so that it's a
+
+00:02:33.760 --> 00:02:37.439
+little more didactic. Starting with the first one. This is
+
+NOTE Q: Do you know if PGmacs works with TRAMP?
+
+00:02:37.440 --> 00:02:41.079
+brilliant, thank you. Do you know if pgmacs works with TRAMP?
+
+00:02:41.080 --> 00:02:44.119
+I often use TRAMP multi-hop to access databases both
+
+00:02:44.120 --> 00:02:46.959
+remotely when accessing via bastion server and locally
+
+00:02:46.960 --> 00:02:49.639
+when using OCI containers. I believe you've already
+
+00:02:49.640 --> 00:02:53.079
+answered but if you could just perhaps read your answer as
+
+00:02:53.080 --> 00:02:58.799
+well for everyone to benefit from it. Yep, sure, that's my
+
+00:02:58.800 --> 00:03:02.319
+comment indeed. So I haven't currently implemented any
+
+00:03:02.320 --> 00:03:07.559
+TRAMP support. I'm not sure that TRAMP is really useful for
+
+00:03:07.560 --> 00:03:11.439
+this type of situation, because as I understand it, TRAMP is
+
+00:03:11.440 --> 00:03:17.159
+establishing SSH connections itself to remote servers.
+
+00:03:17.160 --> 00:03:22.519
+pgmacs is doing the same thing, so it doesn't currently have
+
+00:03:22.520 --> 00:03:27.399
+any support for hooking in with the TRAMP support. Right.
+
+00:03:27.400 --> 00:03:31.439
+Pardon me if I missed the presentation. Oh, go on, please. I
+
+00:03:31.440 --> 00:03:34.359
+guess you could set up an SSH tunnel. It does work with an SSH
+
+00:03:34.360 --> 00:03:39.919
+tunnel, obviously, but there's no support for hooking into
+
+00:03:39.920 --> 00:03:43.799
+an SSH tunnel that TRAMP might be able to create. I'm not sure
+
+00:03:43.800 --> 00:03:46.959
+TRAMP actually uses SSH tunnels rather than direct
+
+00:03:46.960 --> 00:03:51.439
+commands, but anyway. Yeah, I think that might be useful.
+
+00:03:51.440 --> 00:03:54.759
+Yeah, I don't know either. I don't have the answer whether
+
+00:03:54.760 --> 00:03:59.039
+TRAMP actually can create tunnels like this. I'm usually
+
+00:03:59.040 --> 00:04:02.039
+used to TRAMP connecting to an endpoint, be it a directory or
+
+00:04:02.040 --> 00:04:06.239
+a file, and the tunnel is just you accessing the file. But
+
+00:04:06.240 --> 00:04:08.959
+usually, if you're trying to access a remote Postgres
+
+00:04:08.960 --> 00:04:12.039
+database, you would probably manage the port forwarding in
+
+00:04:12.040 --> 00:04:15.199
+a separate terminal just to be able to make sure that
+
+00:04:15.200 --> 00:04:17.759
+everything maps correctly to your machine, and then you
+
+00:04:17.760 --> 00:04:21.959
+would launch pgmacs with the forward port information.
+
+00:04:21.960 --> 00:04:25.519
+That's, I assume, how you would do it anyway. But yeah, I
+
+00:04:25.520 --> 00:04:29.119
+mean, if you could specify what you mean by TRAMP support and
+
+00:04:29.120 --> 00:04:31.839
+if you have something specific in mind, I'm talking to the
+
+00:04:31.840 --> 00:04:35.119
+questioner, feel free to specify and we'll see if you can
+
+00:04:35.120 --> 00:04:38.239
+answer it. But in the meantime, moving to the next question.
+
+NOTE Q: How did you come up with this brilliant idea?
+
+00:04:38.240 --> 00:04:41.999
+Great work, I'm impressed. How did you come up with this
+
+00:04:42.000 --> 00:04:49.079
+brilliant idea, I assume, to create pgmacs? Well, thanks for
+
+00:04:49.080 --> 00:04:52.839
+the compliment. It's a lot of fun developing something
+
+00:04:52.840 --> 00:04:57.799
+which is, as I said, such a small amount of code and which
+
+00:04:57.800 --> 00:05:02.359
+provides quite a bit of useful functionality. In
+
+00:05:02.360 --> 00:05:06.839
+particular, if you compare it with existing Terminal mode
+
+00:05:06.840 --> 00:05:12.799
+applications for manipulating Postgres data, they are
+
+00:05:12.800 --> 00:05:19.279
+not as extensible as Emacs is naturally. So I actually got
+
+00:05:19.280 --> 00:05:23.439
+the idea for developing this when I first tested out the
+
+00:05:23.440 --> 00:05:27.439
+SQLite mode, which is available in Emacs 29.1.
+
+00:05:27.440 --> 00:05:31.879
+And I thought, well, that's really quite impressive. And it
+
+00:05:31.880 --> 00:05:37.359
+allows you to delete rows and insert content and so on. And I
+
+00:05:37.360 --> 00:05:42.359
+was thinking, yeah, Emacs is a, is a useful environment to do
+
+00:05:42.360 --> 00:05:50.079
+that. And since several years ago, when I was doing my PhD, so
+
+00:05:50.080 --> 00:05:53.999
+to avoid doing my PhD, I was developing Emacs, I was
+
+00:05:54.000 --> 00:05:58.399
+developing stuff in Emacs Lisp and one of the libraries I
+
+00:05:58.400 --> 00:06:02.959
+developed was an interface to Postgres over the network. So
+
+00:06:02.960 --> 00:06:08.039
+that's the library called pg.el, which is used by pgmacs to
+
+00:06:08.040 --> 00:06:14.239
+access Postgres and to do all the parsing of data which
+
+00:06:14.240 --> 00:06:19.279
+arrives in Postgres formats into the Emacs Lisp into the
+
+00:06:19.280 --> 00:06:22.999
+Emacs corresponding versions. So, for example, integers
+
+00:06:23.000 --> 00:06:25.399
+are passed as Emacs integers, floating point numbers as
+
+00:06:25.400 --> 00:06:30.839
+floating point numbers, and so on. Right, yeah. I mean, it's
+
+00:06:30.840 --> 00:06:34.439
+pretty needed, obviously, when you have such a tooling like
+
+00:06:34.440 --> 00:06:37.359
+this, to make sure that the type conversion works properly,
+
+00:06:37.360 --> 00:06:39.879
+because the types that you have in Postgres do not
+
+00:06:39.880 --> 00:06:43.879
+necessarily map over to what we have in Emacs. Like, I'm
+
+00:06:43.880 --> 00:06:49.239
+interested, how would you handle g's and b columns in pgmacs?
+
+00:06:49.240 --> 00:06:55.039
+JSON is mapped to an edis dict, a dictionary.
+
+00:06:55.040 --> 00:07:03.759
+It depends on the top level object type for your JSON column.
+
+00:07:03.760 --> 00:07:07.599
+If it's an array, it's mapped to an Emacs Lisp array. If it's a
+
+00:07:07.600 --> 00:07:12.639
+dict, which is most common, it's mapped to an Emacs Lisp
+
+00:07:12.640 --> 00:07:17.679
+dictionary. All right, well it makes perfect sense. So I can
+
+00:07:17.680 --> 00:07:21.839
+break in with a question. Thanks, I just helped myself to the
+
+00:07:21.840 --> 00:07:26.159
+BBB privilege of kind of running around backstage, being a
+
+00:07:26.160 --> 00:07:31.679
+helper backstage. So thanks for your awesome talk, Eric. I
+
+00:07:31.680 --> 00:07:36.719
+super appreciated it. You know, I noticed that you that
+
+00:07:36.720 --> 00:07:43.159
+you're on a slightly older version of Emacs that I deal with
+
+00:07:43.160 --> 00:07:49.519
+in helping with producing the Windows binaries I run into
+
+00:07:49.520 --> 00:07:53.839
+and with some other stuff I do. I'm dealing with that
+
+00:07:53.840 --> 00:07:56.919
+friction of sometimes I've got some work of my own that
+
+00:07:56.920 --> 00:07:59.719
+applies against a specific version of Emacs and it's a bunch
+
+00:07:59.720 --> 00:08:02.519
+of work to think about moving it forward. Just curious if you
+
+00:08:02.520 --> 00:08:06.479
+started thinking about that or if you routine, if that's a
+
+00:08:06.480 --> 00:08:09.919
+routine that you haven't done or there's something maybe
+
+00:08:09.920 --> 00:08:14.599
+specifically going on with, you know, with trunk
+
+00:08:14.600 --> 00:08:20.599
+development that looks intimidating to deal with. Thanks
+
+00:08:20.600 --> 00:08:24.959
+for the comment. I'm not sure I'm using a really old version
+
+00:08:24.960 --> 00:08:29.239
+for Windows. I don't really develop often on Windows, but I I
+
+00:08:29.240 --> 00:08:32.639
+occasionally check that it works, and I took a screenshot
+
+00:08:32.640 --> 00:08:34.799
+that I included in the slides here, but I think I'm using
+
+00:08:34.800 --> 00:08:40.559
+29.4, the current version on Windows. I thought I saw 29.1,
+
+00:08:40.560 --> 00:08:48.839
+so that's probably my, I probably missed it when it went by.
+
+00:08:48.840 --> 00:08:54.879
+My bad. No, no, I use it via the choco package updater so that
+
+00:08:54.880 --> 00:08:58.479
+updates the Emacs version quite easily on Windows. So
+
+00:08:58.480 --> 00:09:03.079
+thanks for your work on maintaining Windows binaries. I
+
+00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:07.519
+realize that was- I sit downstream at the end of a lot of other
+
+00:09:07.520 --> 00:09:11.399
+people's hard work and then just focus on trying to QA well
+
+00:09:11.400 --> 00:09:15.559
+and help catch problems early. It's really fun. But of
+
+00:09:15.560 --> 00:09:16.399
+course, my pleasure.
+
+00:09:16.400 --> 00:09:21.799
+Coming back to the previous question, so the the
+
+00:09:21.800 --> 00:09:26.919
+questionnaire actually provided a little more context. So
+
+NOTE TRAMP continued
+
+00:09:26.920 --> 00:09:30.599
+with docker.el, kubel, etc, it's often possible to, for
+
+00:09:30.600 --> 00:09:33.919
+example, select a container pod or whatever that is hosted
+
+00:09:33.920 --> 00:09:36.639
+on the machine you've connected to via TRAMP, such as
+
+00:09:36.640 --> 00:09:41.799
+Podman, colon image colon path and trigger a terminal shell
+
+00:09:41.800 --> 00:09:44.959
+as well as pull forward on other similar things. It'd be nice
+
+00:09:44.960 --> 00:09:47.679
+to be able to use this tool in a similar way since it would open
+
+00:09:47.680 --> 00:09:49.919
+up the ability to use it with complex connection
+
+00:09:49.920 --> 00:09:53.679
+configuration. Doing SSH tunnel manually is of course
+
+00:09:53.680 --> 00:09:56.879
+totally fine in practice and if it is actually the case
+
+00:09:56.880 --> 00:10:01.319
+personally when I need to remote into a kubernetes machine I
+
+00:10:01.320 --> 00:10:05.239
+use POSIX script that I use on most of my machines but I don't
+
+00:10:05.240 --> 00:10:08.599
+do it inside Emacs. But yeah, if such a thing is possible via
+
+00:10:08.600 --> 00:10:11.039
+TRAMP, it definitely feels like it would be possible to do
+
+00:10:11.040 --> 00:10:14.919
+something similar in pgmacs. So perhaps that's a path of
+
+00:10:14.920 --> 00:10:19.559
+investigation for you that has opened up. Yeah, thanks for
+
+00:10:19.560 --> 00:10:22.759
+these comments. I'll look into that indeed if people have
+
+00:10:22.760 --> 00:10:26.159
+some shortcuts registered in TRAMP. So not for a terminal,
+
+00:10:26.160 --> 00:10:29.599
+because pgmacs won't work through a terminal, but through a
+
+00:10:29.600 --> 00:10:33.439
+port forward, then that would be convenient. I'll see how
+
+00:10:33.440 --> 00:10:38.639
+easy that is to set up. Yeah, I'm pretty sure the way it works
+
+00:10:38.640 --> 00:10:41.279
+is that it starts some processes in the background in Emacs
+
+00:10:41.280 --> 00:10:45.359
+just to either maintain the port forward or to maybe remap
+
+00:10:45.360 --> 00:10:49.239
+some kubecon things or whatever. So with pgmacs,
+
+00:10:49.240 --> 00:10:51.879
+considering complex pipelines to get to the end
+
+00:10:51.880 --> 00:10:54.679
+destination, it feels like it would be possible to do
+
+00:10:54.680 --> 00:10:57.439
+something. But perhaps it's not the responsibility of
+
+00:10:57.440 --> 00:11:00.199
+pgmacs, perhaps it's the responsibility of another,
+
+00:11:00.200 --> 00:11:03.639
+perhaps something that would target TRAMP more so than
+
+00:11:03.640 --> 00:11:08.399
+pgmacs. But it's nice to see again how the beauty of Emacs
+
+00:11:08.400 --> 00:11:12.119
+is that everything is Elisp at the end, and the way they
+
+00:11:12.120 --> 00:11:16.079
+interact, you might want to question yourself whether this
+
+00:11:16.080 --> 00:11:18.919
+belongs more to pgmacs or more to TRAMP, but at the end of the
+
+00:11:18.920 --> 00:11:22.439
+day, both applications will be able to benefit from the
+
+00:11:22.440 --> 00:11:24.759
+functions of the other. So that's the beauty of the
+
+00:11:24.760 --> 00:11:29.159
+philosophy right here. I do see... Absolutely, I agree.
+
+00:11:29.160 --> 00:11:32.279
+Sorry, before we move to different questions, an
+
+00:11:32.280 --> 00:11:36.759
+additional point. I should point out that to warn people
+
+00:11:36.760 --> 00:11:41.159
+that probably running over an SSH tunnel is going to be a bit
+
+00:11:41.160 --> 00:11:46.839
+slow. I mostly use it on my own machine via a local Unix
+
+00:11:46.840 --> 00:11:50.439
+connection. And for some reason that I haven't understood,
+
+00:11:50.440 --> 00:11:55.119
+pgmacs is quite a bit slower when it's even connecting to the
+
+00:11:55.120 --> 00:12:00.359
+same database on the local machine, but via Emacs' network
+
+00:12:00.360 --> 00:12:05.039
+support instead of via the Unix socket support. There is
+
+00:12:05.040 --> 00:12:11.639
+like a factor 10 difference in throughput and in latency. I
+
+00:12:11.640 --> 00:12:15.839
+don't really understand why currently, because it's using
+
+00:12:15.840 --> 00:12:21.919
+exactly the same Emacs Lisp level primitives. And when you
+
+00:12:21.920 --> 00:12:24.799
+do this using other libraries like libpq, which is the
+
+00:12:24.800 --> 00:12:30.639
+Postgres standard official library for connecting to
+
+00:12:30.640 --> 00:12:34.319
+Postgres, there's not such a performance difference. So
+
+00:12:34.320 --> 00:12:39.759
+there's probably something that is not working perfectly
+
+00:12:39.760 --> 00:12:43.879
+in the Emacs network support. I'll have to see whether I can
+
+00:12:43.880 --> 00:12:48.679
+investigate how to improve that performance. Yeah, I'm
+
+00:12:48.680 --> 00:12:52.999
+going to say it sounds like a great bug to have because it
+
+00:12:53.000 --> 00:12:57.319
+feels like it will allow you to dig deeper into Emacs to
+
+00:12:57.320 --> 00:12:59.679
+understand what is going on here. Because as you said,
+
+00:12:59.680 --> 00:13:01.519
+normally it's supposed to work exactly the same,
+
+00:13:01.520 --> 00:13:04.319
+especially if it's still in your local machine, but it
+
+00:13:04.320 --> 00:13:07.919
+doesn't. Personally, that's the kind of bug that I really
+
+00:13:07.920 --> 00:13:11.199
+like and that I'd like to spend more time investigating. So
+
+00:13:11.200 --> 00:13:14.759
+perhaps you might think otherwise, but I wish you luck on the
+
+00:13:14.760 --> 00:13:18.599
+debugging with this particular matter. All right, moving
+
+00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:21.519
+to the last question that we have and then we'll probably go
+
+00:13:21.520 --> 00:13:22.965
+on a little bit of a break.
+
+NOTE Q: Is sqlite-mode also capable of all of this functionality (table relations, etc)? If not, will it be possible to abstract out this functionality from pgmacs somehow?
+
+00:13:22.966 --> 00:13:25.399
+Question. Is SQLite mode also
+
+00:13:25.400 --> 00:13:28.439
+capable of all of this functionality, table relations,
+
+00:13:28.440 --> 00:13:31.559
+etc.? If not, would it be possible to abstract out this
+
+00:13:31.560 --> 00:13:33.279
+functionality from pgmacs somehow?
+
+00:13:33.280 --> 00:13:41.319
+So I'm not very familiar with SQLite because I don't really
+
+00:13:41.320 --> 00:13:46.439
+use it very much myself. I'm not sure I can answer that
+
+00:13:46.440 --> 00:13:53.079
+question. Sorry about that. I think it is probably a bit more
+
+00:13:53.080 --> 00:13:56.639
+basic because SQLite itself is quite a bit more basic in
+
+00:13:56.640 --> 00:14:01.639
+terms of the types of indexes it's able to support and the
+
+00:14:01.640 --> 00:14:09.199
+types of constraints it's able to support. Is it relevant to
+
+00:14:09.200 --> 00:14:13.799
+create an abstract API for connecting to databases? I think
+
+00:14:13.800 --> 00:14:19.639
+there is already actually a library that abstracts out from
+
+00:14:19.640 --> 00:14:25.439
+SQLite and Postgres. Postgres, when you connect to it via a
+
+00:14:25.440 --> 00:14:29.159
+PSQL subsystem,
+
+00:14:29.160 --> 00:14:38.439
+it might be worthwhile doing that, but there are often a few
+
+00:14:38.440 --> 00:14:42.279
+minor differences in SQL syntax and so on between
+
+00:14:42.280 --> 00:14:45.879
+databases. So it might be difficult to have something that
+
+00:14:45.880 --> 00:14:53.159
+really works with generic queries in an effective way. All
+
+00:14:53.160 --> 00:14:58.239
+these SQL dialects are a little bit different,
+
+00:14:58.240 --> 00:15:02.319
+unfortunately. So there was another question about I was
+
+00:15:02.320 --> 00:15:06.510
+just going to read out the next question.
+
+NOTE Q: Would it be possible to move it into Emacs tree? Are the maintainers interested in it?
+
+00:15:06.511 --> 00:15:07.519
+So have you thought
+
+00:15:07.520 --> 00:15:12.559
+about integrating your work into the Emacs tree? Do you know
+
+00:15:12.560 --> 00:15:17.599
+if people are interested? This was a question from the past.
+
+00:15:17.600 --> 00:15:24.639
+Yeah, I think it's probably a bit young to do so, so far.
+
+00:15:24.640 --> 00:15:30.119
+I'm updating it quite regularly. Maybe once it's more
+
+00:15:30.120 --> 00:15:35.399
+stabilized, I wouldn't necessarily object to this. I have
+
+00:15:35.400 --> 00:15:38.559
+some sort of philosophical objections to giving away my
+
+00:15:38.560 --> 00:15:42.519
+copyright, so I'm not sure that will actually be possible.
+
+00:15:42.520 --> 00:15:48.079
+Oh, that'd be interesting. I'd love to get you on maybe a
+
+00:15:48.080 --> 00:15:51.639
+panel talk about that sometime. Something I'd think about.
+
+00:15:51.640 --> 00:15:55.999
+Well, from a very simple point of view, I think that the
+
+00:15:56.000 --> 00:16:01.159
+copyright and the system works well with the existing
+
+00:16:01.160 --> 00:16:05.319
+license and without a license transfer, so I don't feel that
+
+00:16:05.320 --> 00:16:07.766
+the, sorry, without a copyright transfer,
+
+00:16:07.767 --> 00:16:14.679
+I don't feel that the copyright transfer is really a necessary step for
+
+00:16:14.680 --> 00:16:21.639
+taking things away from maintainers. It feels like asking
+
+00:16:21.640 --> 00:16:26.559
+the maintainers to give up on some of their copyright...
+
+00:16:26.560 --> 00:16:29.999
+Indeed. Yeah, I see where that's a little beyond our scope,
+
+00:16:30.000 --> 00:16:33.519
+but it's a fascinating topic and I appreciate your sharing
+
+00:16:33.520 --> 00:16:36.959
+your views there. I mean, that sounds like a whole topic of
+
+00:16:36.960 --> 00:16:41.599
+its own, frankly.
+
+00:16:41.600 --> 00:16:47.039
+Yeah. Corwin, do you want to fill the last question? Sure. So
+
+00:16:47.040 --> 00:16:52.039
+the question was, I almost missed this one, so glad I didn't.
+
+00:16:52.040 --> 00:16:53.849
+This may have been answered already.
+
+NOTE Q: What do you use for the in-buffer tables? Vtable?
+
+00:16:53.850 --> 00:16:55.159
+What do you use for
+
+00:16:55.160 --> 00:17:00.039
+in-buffer tables? Do you use vtable? Yep. Thanks for the
+
+00:17:00.040 --> 00:17:04.599
+question. It is indeed vtable. However, it's not really
+
+00:17:04.600 --> 00:17:10.919
+vtable. It's a fork that I made, which is called pgmix table.
+
+00:17:10.920 --> 00:17:17.199
+because Vtable doesn't have exactly the right
+
+00:17:17.200 --> 00:17:22.119
+functionality in particular for recoloring rows when you
+
+00:17:22.120 --> 00:17:28.239
+add a row. So I've currently forked this. I'm thinking about
+
+00:17:28.240 --> 00:17:36.359
+giving those back as patches to Vtable, plausibly.
+
+00:17:36.360 --> 00:17:40.719
+I know that there is some ongoing work also on vTable in the
+
+00:17:40.720 --> 00:17:45.839
+core. So I'll have to look at what is plausible to feed back
+
+00:17:45.840 --> 00:17:46.719
+into the main version.
+
+00:17:46.720 --> 00:17:55.199
+All right, great. I think we are nearing the end of the Q&A. We
+
+00:17:55.200 --> 00:17:59.079
+are due to move to the next talk in about three minutes now. I
+
+00:17:59.080 --> 00:18:02.719
+can fill 30 seconds or a minute of that with I guess one more
+
+00:18:02.720 --> 00:18:05.079
+maybe back and forth and I'll try to be quicker this time.
+
+00:18:05.080 --> 00:18:08.879
+First of all, thanks for your kind remarks. But my question
+
+00:18:08.880 --> 00:18:11.839
+wasn't really about Windows so much, it was just how I'm
+
+00:18:11.840 --> 00:18:16.639
+relating... So have you, let me put it more simply, have you
+
+NOTE Integrating with Emacs 30?
+
+00:18:16.640 --> 00:18:20.639
+started looking at integrating with Emacs 30 or with the
+
+00:18:20.640 --> 00:18:24.679
+master branch at all? Do you have any sense of how much work
+
+00:18:24.680 --> 00:18:27.079
+it's going to be for you to carry things forward there? I've
+
+00:18:27.080 --> 00:18:31.039
+tested it with the pre-release, yes. I mean, just a very
+
+00:18:31.040 --> 00:18:35.079
+basic testing and everything works perfectly. There's
+
+00:18:35.080 --> 00:18:39.799
+really no... There was no difference that I have noticed
+
+00:18:39.800 --> 00:18:46.279
+between 29.4 and the 30 pre-release on the aspects that I use
+
+00:18:46.280 --> 00:18:48.959
+at least in Emacs. Neato.
+
+00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:56.439
+That was it, Leo. Thanks for letting me back in for one more
+
+00:18:56.440 --> 00:18:58.799
+bite at the apple there. And I appreciate everybody tuning
+
+00:18:58.800 --> 00:19:03.479
+in and participating in the Q&A and this awesome talk.
+
+00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:06.879
+Thanks for your questions. That was great. Yeah, and thank
+
+00:19:06.880 --> 00:19:10.319
+you for answering them and for the presentation as well. So
+
+00:19:10.320 --> 00:19:14.199
+we'll be moving in about two minutes to the next talk, which
+
+00:19:14.200 --> 00:19:20.159
+is pre-recorded as well. Well, we didn't really give you the
+
+00:19:20.160 --> 00:19:29.399
+chance, Eric, to have the last word. So do you have any last
+
+00:19:29.400 --> 00:19:29.799
+word?
+
+00:19:29.800 --> 00:19:34.479
+please try it out, try out pgmacs and send some feedback
+
+00:19:34.480 --> 00:19:39.279
+that'll help improve it over time. Sure, great. Well, thank
+
+00:19:39.280 --> 00:19:41.559
+you so much, Eric, for taking the time to come to the
+
+00:19:41.560 --> 00:19:45.999
+conference, and we'll see you soon. Thank you. Bye,
+
+00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:50.279
+everyone. Bye. And we'll be live with the next talk in about 1
+
+00:19:50.280 --> 00:19:53.119
+minute 30. So we'll take a little bit of a breather, go make
+
+00:19:53.120 --> 00:19:56.599
+some coffee, go take a bio break. We'll be back soon. See you
+
+00:19:56.600 --> 00:20:01.880
+in a bit.
diff --git a/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-project--managing-writing-project-metadata-with-orgmode--blaine-mooers--answers.vtt b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-project--managing-writing-project-metadata-with-orgmode--blaine-mooers--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..14ca3104
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-project--managing-writing-project-metadata-with-orgmode--blaine-mooers--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,2420 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:10.319
+And about, I think we are live. Okay, hi again everyone. And hi
+
+00:00:10.320 --> 00:00:14.679
+Blaine, how are you doing? Fantastic, happy to be here.
+
+00:00:14.680 --> 00:00:17.479
+Yeah, it's good to see you again. We were just reminiscing in
+
+00:00:17.480 --> 00:00:20.239
+a room right now that it's almost been a year exactly since we
+
+00:00:20.240 --> 00:00:23.879
+last spoke because you were at the EmacsConf last year. That's
+
+00:00:23.880 --> 00:00:28.559
+right. This is great fun. Yeah, well, thank you for coming in
+
+00:00:28.560 --> 00:00:33.079
+and especially every time you come with a very well-crafted
+
+00:00:33.080 --> 00:00:37.279
+talks talking about, you know, what you do with Org Mode, Org
+
+00:00:37.280 --> 00:00:41.039
+Roam and whatever. And it's really fascinating as someone
+
+00:00:41.040 --> 00:00:43.479
+who develops and use those tools constantly to see you put
+
+00:00:43.480 --> 00:00:46.199
+them in action so well. Because you, you know, the way you
+
+00:00:46.200 --> 00:00:49.719
+talk about your research, it really reminds me on what we
+
+00:00:49.720 --> 00:00:53.279
+were, sorry, I've got elves talking in my ears and I'm still
+
+00:00:53.280 --> 00:00:56.639
+not used to it at this point. But it's really nice to see you
+
+00:00:56.640 --> 00:01:00.359
+put all of this together into a very cohesive way for you to
+
+00:01:00.360 --> 00:01:03.759
+write. Okay, let me just share my screen and I'll be sharing
+
+00:01:03.760 --> 00:01:11.879
+the questions. Where is it? All right, take presenter. And I
+
+00:01:11.880 --> 00:01:18.079
+will be sharing the questions. All right. Can you see my
+
+00:01:18.080 --> 00:01:24.159
+screen all right? I can, yes. OK, cool. So we move straight to
+
+00:01:24.160 --> 00:01:26.999
+the question. Let me just check on the time. I think we have
+
+00:01:27.000 --> 00:01:31.999
+about until 10.20, which is in 17 minutes. So let's take
+
+00:01:32.000 --> 00:01:35.639
+about 10 to 15 minutes of question time. And if people have
+
+00:01:35.640 --> 00:01:38.599
+joined on BBB, we'll also be taking questions live. All
+
+NOTE Q: what does 0573 means in your init. file name?
+
+00:01:38.600 --> 00:01:44.079
+right. Starting with the first question, what does 0573
+
+00:01:44.080 --> 00:01:49.719
+mean in your init file name? So this name is, you can think of
+
+00:01:49.720 --> 00:01:55.879
+it as a prefix or a stub. It's an index number that I utilize
+
+00:01:55.880 --> 00:02:01.479
+before a short name that describes the project. So I have all
+
+00:02:01.480 --> 00:02:06.119
+my projects in my home directory, and I just start typing the
+
+00:02:06.120 --> 00:02:12.199
+project number or index number. in the terminal and I have
+
+00:02:12.200 --> 00:02:17.879
+autocompletion available through oh my ZSH package. So I
+
+00:02:17.880 --> 00:02:21.199
+just hit tab and it autocompletes the name of the project and
+
+00:02:21.200 --> 00:02:26.319
+pops me into that folder. And so I find this to be very easy for
+
+00:02:26.320 --> 00:02:30.919
+navigating between projects. As you saw, I work on multiple
+
+00:02:30.920 --> 00:02:37.399
+projects in a given day and this helps me move about. And I
+
+00:02:37.400 --> 00:02:45.639
+also use this number at the start of the log file name and at
+
+00:02:45.640 --> 00:02:50.639
+the start of the manuscript name and the start of the, I also
+
+00:02:50.640 --> 00:02:54.079
+have an annotated bibliography. So all those files are
+
+00:02:54.080 --> 00:02:59.359
+identified just in case I accidentally save one to the wrong
+
+00:02:59.360 --> 00:03:04.639
+folder. I can avoid, I can sort them out later. Great
+
+00:03:04.640 --> 00:03:09.519
+question. Thank you. Next question, which I think is going
+
+NOTE Q: What does Zettelkasten mean?
+
+00:03:09.520 --> 00:03:16.159
+to be a long one. What does Zettelkasten mean? So this means
+
+00:03:16.160 --> 00:03:20.719
+like, I guess, notebox, something along those lines. You
+
+00:03:20.720 --> 00:03:24.879
+can think of it as a- Yeah, spitbox usually, that's the word
+
+00:03:24.880 --> 00:03:29.159
+we use. Thank you. So this is a kind of like a card catalog
+
+00:03:29.160 --> 00:03:33.359
+system that when it was done on paper, and now it's being done
+
+00:03:33.360 --> 00:03:38.679
+electronically through various software packages. So in
+
+00:03:38.680 --> 00:03:43.199
+the Emacs world, org-roam is a one of several alternate
+
+00:03:43.200 --> 00:03:47.999
+packages that you can use. Prot has the note and there's a
+
+00:03:48.000 --> 00:03:59.079
+couple others. So, idea is that you create a note, usually a,
+
+00:03:59.080 --> 00:04:04.239
+ultimately what you want to do is create a nugget of
+
+00:04:04.240 --> 00:04:09.479
+knowledge from your reading that you've done. and you add it
+
+00:04:09.480 --> 00:04:15.879
+to this note system in such a way that you can recover it more
+
+00:04:15.880 --> 00:04:20.159
+easily than what had to be done in the old days with index
+
+00:04:20.160 --> 00:04:23.719
+cards.
+
+00:04:23.720 --> 00:04:28.199
+So you set up backlinks and then you can use the search
+
+00:04:28.200 --> 00:04:34.919
+features in Org Roam to filter and find the notes again in the
+
+00:04:34.920 --> 00:04:43.079
+future. Org Roam has a wonderful GUI interface where you can
+
+00:04:43.080 --> 00:04:47.079
+display it as a knowledge graph, essentially, all your
+
+00:04:47.080 --> 00:04:52.479
+nodes and the backlinks between them. I set mine up in a
+
+00:04:52.480 --> 00:04:56.639
+rather hierarchical fashion to, at least right now, it's
+
+00:04:56.640 --> 00:05:01.959
+pretty hierarchical at this point, but it may become more
+
+00:05:01.960 --> 00:05:07.679
+disorganized over time. But I find it I'm sort of a visual
+
+00:05:07.680 --> 00:05:12.519
+person. I like mind maps a lot. I find that this visual
+
+00:05:12.520 --> 00:05:16.919
+display of my Zettelkasten is similar, resembles to a
+
+00:05:16.920 --> 00:05:22.439
+certain degree, a mind map.
+
+00:05:22.440 --> 00:05:25.599
+Okay, well, that's a pretty good definition of what
+
+00:05:25.600 --> 00:05:28.839
+Zettelkasten is, and you also went on to specify what it
+
+00:05:28.840 --> 00:05:31.599
+means inside Emacs, so thank you. I think that clarifies it
+
+00:05:31.600 --> 00:05:34.199
+for the two people in the room who still do not know, after
+
+00:05:34.200 --> 00:05:36.759
+attending four Emacs conferences, what is the
+
+00:05:36.760 --> 00:05:41.759
+Zettelkasten method. Moving on to the next question,
+
+NOTE Q: How many papers are you writing at the same time?
+
+00:05:41.760 --> 00:05:44.399
+how many papers are you writing at the same time? Because I
+
+00:05:44.400 --> 00:05:47.759
+believe you mentioned that you had concurrent papers being
+
+00:05:47.760 --> 00:05:51.959
+written during your presentation. So I'm probably working
+
+00:05:51.960 --> 00:05:57.839
+on, in a given year, somewhere between 10 and 15. How many do I
+
+00:05:57.840 --> 00:06:03.199
+get published in a year? Probably anywhere from one to four
+
+00:06:03.200 --> 00:06:08.639
+or five. So these papers often, the work on them spans
+
+00:06:08.640 --> 00:06:13.559
+multiple years. will start working on a paper when I begin,
+
+00:06:13.560 --> 00:06:16.519
+before I begin the experiments, ideally, because I'm
+
+00:06:16.520 --> 00:06:23.439
+trying to do hypothesis-driven research. And so that helps
+
+00:06:23.440 --> 00:06:27.559
+define the scope of the project and limit the number of
+
+00:06:27.560 --> 00:06:32.959
+rabbit holes I go down. So, but through the nature of the
+
+00:06:32.960 --> 00:06:36.919
+work, there's a lot of waiting required in my case for
+
+00:06:36.920 --> 00:06:39.679
+crystals to grow and then the opportunity to collect
+
+00:06:39.680 --> 00:06:43.879
+diffraction data on the crystals. And then the structures
+
+00:06:43.880 --> 00:06:48.559
+have to be determined and refined and analyzed and then
+
+00:06:48.560 --> 00:06:52.799
+deposited, figures have to be made. So a lot of steps are
+
+00:06:52.800 --> 00:06:57.759
+involved that those take generally span, that work can span
+
+00:06:57.760 --> 00:07:02.559
+several years.
+
+00:07:02.560 --> 00:07:09.399
+In a given day, I try to work on two papers, ideally. I haven't
+
+00:07:09.400 --> 00:07:12.279
+been doing so well lately over the past month.
+
+00:07:12.280 --> 00:07:19.759
+In the past year, there was a couple of days where I worked on
+
+00:07:19.760 --> 00:07:24.239
+five papers. There was something like a half dozen where I
+
+00:07:24.240 --> 00:07:29.159
+worked on four, about 40 days where I worked on three, and I
+
+00:07:29.160 --> 00:07:33.479
+think there was something like about 100 days where I worked
+
+00:07:33.480 --> 00:07:40.999
+on two papers a day, about 140 days where I just worked on one.
+
+00:07:41.000 --> 00:07:45.719
+So my idea is, I've been sort of developing more recently is
+
+00:07:45.720 --> 00:07:49.159
+that I'll start doing like the generative writing on a paper
+
+00:07:49.160 --> 00:07:51.959
+at the beginning of the day on the paper project I'm most
+
+00:07:51.960 --> 00:07:55.439
+excited about. I tried to, I'm a night owl. I tried to do this
+
+00:07:55.440 --> 00:08:00.519
+work early in the morning when I'm half awake to try to
+
+00:08:00.520 --> 00:08:03.439
+overcome my internal editor that inhibits me from writing
+
+00:08:03.440 --> 00:08:09.879
+prose freely. And so the idea is just to get a lot of words out,
+
+00:08:09.880 --> 00:08:14.639
+worry about editing them later. And then after about three
+
+00:08:14.640 --> 00:08:17.999
+hours, I'll switch to the second project that I'm less
+
+00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:21.999
+excited about. And I can go for another 90 minutes to two
+
+00:08:22.000 --> 00:08:27.719
+hours on that project. So I build up a lot of momentum, and
+
+00:08:27.720 --> 00:08:31.959
+then I do the switch. And I find that switch to be relatively
+
+00:08:31.960 --> 00:08:37.359
+easy. So my process will be On project A, make some final
+
+00:08:37.360 --> 00:08:42.359
+notes about what was accomplished in the writing log. Then
+
+00:08:42.360 --> 00:08:47.999
+I'll switch over to the writing log for the project B, and
+
+00:08:48.000 --> 00:08:51.359
+I'll go to the diary section at the beginning. I'll make a
+
+00:08:51.360 --> 00:08:57.279
+little to-do list and maybe look at the prior entry in the
+
+00:08:57.280 --> 00:09:03.199
+diary if I need to reboot my memory. And then I'll move on to
+
+00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:07.919
+the manuscript and go for 90 minutes or two hours.
+
+00:09:07.920 --> 00:09:12.479
+Generally, you're only good for somewhere between four and
+
+00:09:12.480 --> 00:09:15.359
+a half, five and a half hours. If you try to write in a
+
+00:09:15.360 --> 00:09:17.839
+generative fashion much longer than that, your
+
+00:09:17.840 --> 00:09:21.279
+productivity goes down quite a bit. You're better off
+
+00:09:21.280 --> 00:09:24.039
+switching to a completely different activity and then
+
+00:09:24.040 --> 00:09:30.159
+using your experience doing that writing to essentially
+
+00:09:30.160 --> 00:09:33.199
+launch background jobs in your subconscious. And so you
+
+00:09:33.200 --> 00:09:37.479
+will get those ideas in the shower the next morning.
+
+00:09:37.480 --> 00:09:44.519
+I find it really funny because I also relate. I've also
+
+00:09:44.520 --> 00:09:48.919
+worked a lot on organization as linked to paper writing but
+
+00:09:48.920 --> 00:09:53.719
+also to on my work as a developer and it's funny how you refer
+
+00:09:53.720 --> 00:09:56.999
+to your ability to think about something in very similar
+
+00:09:57.000 --> 00:09:59.399
+terms to how a computer would think about something. You've
+
+00:09:59.400 --> 00:10:02.399
+mentioned in your presentation the cost of context
+
+00:10:02.400 --> 00:10:04.919
+switching between different things but it's also
+
+00:10:04.920 --> 00:10:08.119
+something that we use in computing when a processor needs to
+
+00:10:08.120 --> 00:10:11.719
+be thinking about something else, well, it has a cost. And
+
+00:10:11.720 --> 00:10:15.359
+it's really fun for me to hear you talk about, oh, I need to
+
+00:10:15.360 --> 00:10:19.159
+select two topics, but no longer than 90 minutes per topic,
+
+00:10:19.160 --> 00:10:21.319
+because it's really about maximizing your output for
+
+00:10:21.320 --> 00:10:25.239
+creativity. And overall, your entire chat, your entire
+
+00:10:25.240 --> 00:10:28.519
+presentation here is about really maximizing the
+
+00:10:28.520 --> 00:10:32.959
+engagement that you have between outputs and your
+
+00:10:32.960 --> 00:10:37.159
+cognition. And I really find this amazing how down to the T
+
+00:10:37.160 --> 00:10:40.279
+you've managed to do this. And it actually leads me to
+
+00:10:40.280 --> 00:10:42.679
+another question which is being asked of you, which is,
+
+NOTE Q: How you capture those ideas when when you are away from Emacs?
+
+00:10:42.680 --> 00:10:45.959
+how do you capture those ideas when you are away from Emacs? And
+
+00:10:45.960 --> 00:10:47.999
+perhaps not only those you have in the showers, but also
+
+00:10:48.000 --> 00:10:53.919
+elsewhere. So that's a great question. Over the past year, I
+
+00:10:53.920 --> 00:10:59.239
+actually, last January, upon recommendation of a senior
+
+00:10:59.240 --> 00:11:05.399
+colleague, I bought a digital voice recorder for $85 from
+
+00:11:05.400 --> 00:11:10.279
+Sony, and it's the best investment I've made in a very long
+
+00:11:10.280 --> 00:11:16.399
+time. other than my laptop computer, because I then record
+
+00:11:16.400 --> 00:11:21.439
+my thoughts. So I have a half hour commute. And to me, that's
+
+00:11:21.440 --> 00:11:25.359
+largely a waste of time. I wish I lived a lot closer to work.
+
+00:11:25.360 --> 00:11:33.679
+But I use that time to generate ideas. So maybe I'll start my
+
+00:11:33.680 --> 00:11:40.559
+day at home for 90 minutes, worked on paper A, and then I might
+
+00:11:40.560 --> 00:11:44.799
+try to prime my mind about project B, or I might still have
+
+00:11:44.800 --> 00:11:48.199
+ideas that are flowing about project A. And I'll record
+
+00:11:48.200 --> 00:11:51.439
+those in the digital voice recorder. And then when I get to
+
+00:11:51.440 --> 00:11:54.599
+the lab, I'll transfer the audio file to my computer, and
+
+00:11:54.600 --> 00:12:00.159
+I'll transcribe it using a whisper. So I've set up some
+
+00:12:00.160 --> 00:12:03.759
+Python scripts and bash functions to go through and I
+
+00:12:03.760 --> 00:12:10.999
+convert all the sentences into one sentence per line
+
+00:12:11.000 --> 00:12:16.359
+because that's the way I like to write and edit things. And so
+
+00:12:16.360 --> 00:12:19.679
+it does all this pre-processing for me. And I have this
+
+00:12:19.680 --> 00:12:23.279
+transcript that's in pretty good shape. I don't have to do
+
+00:12:23.280 --> 00:12:29.159
+very much editing. And I'll then copy that over and work on
+
+00:12:29.160 --> 00:12:33.079
+it, clean it up, and pluck out the ideas that I think might be
+
+00:12:33.080 --> 00:12:40.439
+useful. Unfortunately, I'm not very I'm not away from my
+
+00:12:40.440 --> 00:12:47.959
+computer that much. I'm in front of it, 12, 14 hours a day. So
+
+00:12:47.960 --> 00:12:53.039
+when I'm teaching, when I'm in seminar, other committee
+
+00:12:53.040 --> 00:12:58.359
+meetings, traveling, then I'll capture ideas on paper. I
+
+00:12:58.360 --> 00:13:02.399
+don't have a cell phone. I'm trying to be the last human on
+
+00:13:02.400 --> 00:13:07.359
+earth without a cell phone. I think I would be so distracted
+
+00:13:07.360 --> 00:13:12.719
+by a cell phone. Worst person on the planet, I would be
+
+00:13:12.720 --> 00:13:16.399
+totally focused on my cell phone if I had one. So I'm like one
+
+00:13:16.400 --> 00:13:22.999
+of the few people left who can read a map. So I do run into some
+
+00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:26.199
+difficulties hailing taxis and that sort of thing when I'm
+
+00:13:26.200 --> 00:13:30.599
+traveling. So there are some downsides to not having a cell
+
+00:13:30.600 --> 00:13:35.719
+phone, but these days. Yeah, but I think there's a pretty
+
+00:13:35.720 --> 00:13:38.639
+significant upside because, you know, you talk about cell
+
+00:13:38.640 --> 00:13:40.999
+phones here, but before you were talking about the 90
+
+00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:44.799
+minutes of uninterrupted focus on a given topic. And I think
+
+00:13:44.800 --> 00:13:48.359
+plenty of people would be envious of this ability to focus
+
+00:13:48.360 --> 00:13:54.519
+for that long on a topic. And I guess if we are to thread the
+
+00:13:54.520 --> 00:13:57.239
+needle here, well, the lack of cell phone might be for
+
+00:13:57.240 --> 00:14:00.839
+something for this ability to focus. So take of this what you
+
+00:14:00.840 --> 00:14:06.799
+will. True, I am a sucker for the web browser. I can get
+
+00:14:06.800 --> 00:14:11.759
+distracted going down various rabbit holes thanks to
+
+00:14:11.760 --> 00:14:17.279
+Google searches and that sort of thing. Likewise, email is
+
+00:14:17.280 --> 00:14:22.399
+another tension grabber. So, there's those other battles I
+
+00:14:22.400 --> 00:14:27.599
+have to fight too. So, right, that is a huge battle that all of
+
+00:14:27.600 --> 00:14:31.839
+us face is developing focus and being able to maintain
+
+00:14:31.840 --> 00:14:37.159
+focus. Right. So, we have about three more minutes of
+
+00:14:37.160 --> 00:14:39.279
+questions. So, thank you so much already for answering many
+
+00:14:39.280 --> 00:14:43.319
+questions. How about we do a quick fire for the remaining
+
+00:14:43.320 --> 00:14:47.079
+questions and then maybe we will take a question from... from
+
+00:14:47.080 --> 00:14:50.272
+here or in the room. So how about we go for the next one?
+
+NOTE Q: What if an ideas does not belong to any current working manuscript?
+
+00:14:50.273 --> 00:14:51.573
+What if an ID does not belong
+
+00:14:51.574 --> 00:14:55.199
+to any current working manuscript? So I
+
+00:14:55.200 --> 00:14:57.799
+have a sandbox area in the log file.
+
+00:14:57.800 --> 00:15:04.319
+So if it's likely going to be related to something to a
+
+00:15:04.320 --> 00:15:09.119
+certain degree, if the idea is totally unrelated to
+
+00:15:09.120 --> 00:15:12.719
+anything I'm working on, then I will
+
+00:15:12.720 --> 00:15:21.359
+I maintain a 700 through 750 words. I maintain a kind of a
+
+00:15:21.360 --> 00:15:26.719
+external diary and I just capture those kind of ideas there.
+
+00:15:26.720 --> 00:15:31.199
+So, I have access to a web interface to this big text area with
+
+00:15:31.200 --> 00:15:37.079
+nothing in it. And I just dump ideas all day long in there. So,
+
+00:15:37.080 --> 00:15:42.799
+and I save that away. I have that in a big LaTeX document
+
+00:15:42.800 --> 00:15:49.999
+currently on Overleaf. but each day has its own page. And so
+
+00:15:50.000 --> 00:15:53.079
+that information is captured and I can recover it. And maybe
+
+00:15:53.080 --> 00:15:57.599
+it's gonna take me a week, a month, a year to take that idea and
+
+00:15:57.600 --> 00:16:00.279
+think about it. And then eventually I'll get to a point where
+
+00:16:00.280 --> 00:16:04.279
+I have a critical mass of momentum and data and so forth,
+
+00:16:04.280 --> 00:16:08.279
+where I could start a new writing project. But you're right,
+
+00:16:08.280 --> 00:16:11.399
+that is a problem, capturing those ideas and keeping track
+
+00:16:11.400 --> 00:16:16.719
+of them. The Xenocasting can also help with that. Right. OK,
+
+00:16:16.720 --> 00:16:19.159
+so we have time for one more question and I think I'm going to
+
+00:16:19.160 --> 00:16:22.679
+skip this one. You can take all the time you want after we're
+
+00:16:22.680 --> 00:16:25.679
+done with the live show for you to answer in BBB, obviously,
+
+00:16:25.680 --> 00:16:28.319
+and even after the conference. But I'd really like to finish
+
+00:16:28.320 --> 00:16:28.801
+on this one.
+
+NOTE Q: If there were one habit from your process (referencing your extensive flow chart) that you want active learners/professional researchers to adopt, which would it be and why?
+
+00:16:28.802 --> 00:16:31.879
+So, if there were one habit from your process,
+
+00:16:31.880 --> 00:16:35.079
+referencing your extensive flowchart, that you want
+
+00:16:35.080 --> 00:16:37.839
+active learners or professional researchers to adopt,
+
+00:16:37.840 --> 00:16:44.479
+which would it be and why? So,
+
+00:16:44.480 --> 00:16:49.999
+I think just keeping that daily diary, that's the essential
+
+00:16:50.000 --> 00:16:55.239
+part for overcoming the fear of forgetting and the fear of
+
+00:16:55.240 --> 00:16:58.319
+losing momentum. One reason why people don't work on two
+
+00:16:58.320 --> 00:17:02.399
+projects a day is that they fear losing momentum on the first
+
+00:17:02.400 --> 00:17:07.319
+project they're working on. But we often are stuck with
+
+00:17:07.320 --> 00:17:09.999
+working on multiple writing projects, and they're best
+
+00:17:10.000 --> 00:17:13.199
+done over longer periods of time rather than in a hasty
+
+00:17:13.200 --> 00:17:18.679
+fashion. I try to avoid binge writing, although I do my share
+
+00:17:18.680 --> 00:17:23.479
+of that, too. Okay, well, Blaine, thank you so much for all
+
+00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:29.199
+your questions. The stream is going to move to the next chat
+
+00:17:29.200 --> 00:17:31.999
+and talk. We're moving to the next talk of the day, but feel
+
+00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:35.159
+free to stay in a room. For everyone interested in asking
+
+00:17:35.160 --> 00:17:38.479
+more questions to Blaine, the BBB, sorry, BigBlueButton
+
+00:17:38.480 --> 00:17:41.250
+link is available on the website. You can join and ask
+
+00:17:41.240 --> 00:17:43.319
+questions directly to Blaine. And otherwise, we'll make
+
+00:17:43.320 --> 00:17:45.479
+sure that all the remaining questions on the pad get their
+
+00:17:45.480 --> 00:17:48.239
+answer eventually. Thank you so much, Blaine. You're
+
+00:17:48.240 --> 00:17:56.559
+welcome. Bye-bye. Bye.
+
+00:17:56.560 --> 00:18:00.079
+okay I think the stream is moving on. Just making sure. okay. Yes
+
+00:18:00.080 --> 00:18:02.079
+we are moving on to the next stream. So Blaine, I'm going to need to
+
+00:18:02.080 --> 00:18:04.919
+get ready for the next talk. Thank you so much for all your
+
+00:18:04.920 --> 00:18:08.079
+answers and feel free to answer your questions. I'm
+
+00:18:08.080 --> 00:18:11.759
+sorry that i didn't get to fill your question live. It's just
+
+00:18:11.760 --> 00:18:16.599
+there was a lot of questions actually. It was a comment. Okay.
+
+NOTE Off-stream Q&A
+
+00:18:16.600 --> 00:18:24.199
+Yeah, yeah. You mentioned about that you sit all the day in
+
+00:18:24.200 --> 00:18:27.999
+front of computer, right? And I have to say, it's not too
+
+00:18:28.000 --> 00:18:31.439
+different from a bathroom if you get distracted by web
+
+00:18:31.440 --> 00:18:34.919
+browser. I also have the same problem. And one interesting
+
+00:18:34.920 --> 00:18:38.679
+solution I found at some point is that I pry my mind about
+
+00:18:38.680 --> 00:18:44.039
+certain task, I leave my office and I go for a walk while
+
+00:18:44.040 --> 00:18:49.079
+thinking about this. And that really forces to focus
+
+00:18:49.080 --> 00:18:52.839
+because while you're working you have nothing else to do.
+
+00:18:52.840 --> 00:18:56.999
+You cannot go and like go like searching Google and stuff
+
+00:18:57.000 --> 00:19:03.359
+like that. It can really help in some cases.
+
+00:19:03.360 --> 00:19:09.559
+Yeah, I try to. Periodically, I'll try to restart doing the
+
+00:19:09.560 --> 00:19:12.879
+Pomodoro method, where you're supposed to get up every 25
+
+00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:17.959
+minutes and take a break. But that requires a lot of
+
+00:19:17.960 --> 00:19:23.799
+discipline. And it also has, I find I'm more exhausted by
+
+00:19:23.800 --> 00:19:26.879
+following that method at the end of the day. But I think the
+
+00:19:26.880 --> 00:19:30.919
+problem with, well, I think in part- No, no, I don't mean
+
+00:19:30.920 --> 00:19:36.079
+Pomodoro actually. I mean, more like showers. Because when
+
+00:19:36.080 --> 00:19:39.079
+you take a shower, you think about something, right? When
+
+00:19:39.080 --> 00:19:43.159
+you just go for a walk, you again think about it. So this is not
+
+00:19:43.160 --> 00:19:46.119
+a break to take rest. It's a break to think away from
+
+00:19:46.120 --> 00:19:49.039
+computer.
+
+00:19:49.040 --> 00:19:54.239
+And you prime yourself, your brain by... picking something
+
+00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:56.719
+to work on. So I have a project, I think, like certain
+
+00:19:56.720 --> 00:20:01.079
+questions I want to think about. I sometimes take my, like a
+
+00:20:01.080 --> 00:20:05.319
+piece of paper with me. And then when I walk, I like take
+
+00:20:05.320 --> 00:20:10.279
+notes. You can record voice in your case. And like half an
+
+00:20:10.280 --> 00:20:15.239
+hour and you can really generate ideas.
+
+00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:18.519
+I have been doing a similar thing. I will take a clipboard.
+
+00:20:18.520 --> 00:20:24.799
+Maybe I'll have, um, Some blank pages where I'll write, jot
+
+00:20:24.800 --> 00:20:29.799
+down ideas as I walk. I'll go for like a half hour, hour-long
+
+00:20:29.800 --> 00:20:33.879
+walk and also read a paper sometimes, and in the process of
+
+00:20:33.880 --> 00:20:39.159
+reading, I get ideas.
+
+00:20:39.160 --> 00:20:45.159
+The clipboard though is socially less acceptable. It
+
+00:20:45.160 --> 00:20:49.359
+reminds people of their gym teacher, I think, or their
+
+00:20:49.360 --> 00:20:53.799
+marine drill sergeant, and they give me all kinds of weird
+
+00:20:53.800 --> 00:20:59.279
+looks. Even though they're walking and reading their cell
+
+00:20:59.280 --> 00:21:03.759
+phone, looking down at their cell phone, they give me weird
+
+00:21:03.760 --> 00:21:08.599
+looks for looking down at a clipboard as I walk. So there's
+
+00:21:08.600 --> 00:21:16.719
+that weird aspect to it. It's kind of hilarious.
+
+00:21:16.720 --> 00:21:21.479
+Thank you very much for the comment. Yeah, hopefully it's
+
+00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:24.799
+helpful. Because I really struggled about this web browser
+
+00:21:24.800 --> 00:21:28.346
+in the past. Not so much these days. Very good.
+
+00:21:28.347 --> 00:21:57.279
+That's good to hear.
+
+00:21:57.280 --> 00:21:57.639
+I asked,
+
+00:21:57.640 --> 00:22:06.519
+when I write notes, I've noticed like with the
+
+00:22:06.520 --> 00:22:10.360
+Getting Things Done and the Zettelkasten, I like to separate them
+
+00:22:10.400 --> 00:22:14.759
+out. And beyond that, I also like to separate them out on
+
+00:22:14.760 --> 00:22:19.959
+daily things and the global things. So that, for instance,
+
+00:22:19.960 --> 00:22:24.719
+your Zettelkasten, a daily would be like a journal. If you
+
+00:22:24.720 --> 00:22:29.599
+separate it out, It gives a lot of tension of, oh, well, if
+
+00:22:29.600 --> 00:22:33.119
+it's just a stray thought, I'll write it into my journal if I
+
+00:22:33.120 --> 00:22:36.959
+don't know where it goes. If I can think of a permanent place
+
+00:22:36.960 --> 00:22:41.479
+for it to go, it goes into the Zettelkasten. Same thing with,
+
+00:22:41.480 --> 00:22:44.599
+and then with like the getting things done is like, I don't,
+
+00:22:44.600 --> 00:22:48.159
+you start with like a fresh sheet of paper every single day or
+
+00:22:48.160 --> 00:22:54.639
+note or whatever. You ever done, you have tricks like that
+
+00:22:54.640 --> 00:22:59.359
+that you've noticed? So I'm sort of doing something similar
+
+00:22:59.360 --> 00:23:04.279
+through this. Well, to be honest, I like at the start of the
+
+00:23:04.280 --> 00:23:07.399
+day, I actually will just do sort of a brain dump of what
+
+00:23:07.400 --> 00:23:11.879
+happened the day before, just to try to get writing again.
+
+00:23:11.880 --> 00:23:16.959
+And these days, because of carpal tunnel syndrome, I'll use
+
+00:23:16.960 --> 00:23:22.159
+a voice speech to text to generate that initial text. And I'm
+
+00:23:22.160 --> 00:23:28.479
+just trying to, build up momentum of generating words. And
+
+00:23:28.480 --> 00:23:35.559
+so I capture, but I'm also adding to that document
+
+00:23:35.560 --> 00:23:40.719
+throughout the day. And so that is available through the web
+
+00:23:40.720 --> 00:23:47.279
+browser. I have a tab open to 750 words all the time. There's
+
+00:23:47.280 --> 00:23:51.719
+an alternate to it that is called Write Honey, that somebody
+
+00:23:51.720 --> 00:23:55.919
+in Berlin started, because they benefited so greatly from
+
+00:23:55.920 --> 00:23:58.679
+this practice. They have made it available for free,
+
+00:23:58.680 --> 00:24:05.039
+apparently for life. And so there's no word limit, whereas I
+
+00:24:05.040 --> 00:24:10.599
+have a grandfathered version of 750 words, and I have a word
+
+00:24:10.600 --> 00:24:15.519
+limit of 5,000 words. I rarely hit it. It's nice to know that
+
+00:24:15.520 --> 00:24:20.599
+right honey doesn't have that limit. So, that's how I'm
+
+00:24:20.600 --> 00:24:26.199
+capturing things. And then, so some of that text winds up
+
+00:24:26.200 --> 00:24:32.279
+being moved into my log file or even sometimes into the
+
+00:24:32.280 --> 00:24:37.799
+manuscript.
+
+00:24:37.800 --> 00:24:42.079
+So maybe a little less organized than the getting things
+
+00:24:42.080 --> 00:24:47.559
+done approach with the dailies and then the refiling
+
+00:24:47.560 --> 00:24:54.319
+process. So I don't do any refiling. I want to file once. I
+
+00:24:54.320 --> 00:24:58.079
+don't want to file a second time or have to go back and handle
+
+00:24:58.080 --> 00:25:03.319
+something a second time. So that's my rationale for the
+
+00:25:03.320 --> 00:25:08.159
+approach I take. I'm not using it. I've had various
+
+00:25:08.160 --> 00:25:12.759
+iterations of systems I've used, but I think my favorite one
+
+00:25:12.760 --> 00:25:15.559
+for like getting things done is actually not using
+
+00:25:15.560 --> 00:25:18.799
+Org Agenda, just like making a blank sheet and kind of doing
+
+00:25:18.800 --> 00:25:24.039
+like a template where it's just like, and separating my
+
+00:25:24.040 --> 00:25:28.119
+tasks out into three categories, like core tasks, like, and
+
+00:25:28.120 --> 00:25:32.279
+rule of thumb is like, if it's beyond three, it's too much too
+
+00:25:32.280 --> 00:25:36.359
+many. And like core tasks, secondary tasks and unplanned
+
+00:25:36.360 --> 00:25:39.759
+tasks. So these, those three categories, like for
+
+00:25:39.760 --> 00:25:42.039
+instance, the core task, if it's greater than three, it's
+
+00:25:42.040 --> 00:25:46.999
+too many. That way is like, when you look back, then you can
+
+00:25:47.000 --> 00:25:51.439
+see, like, if I got my core tasks done, I did really good. or if
+
+00:25:51.440 --> 00:25:56.879
+I got a lot of secondary tasks but not my core tasks done, I got
+
+00:25:56.880 --> 00:25:58.873
+side reactions with things that don't matter.
+
+00:25:58.874 --> 00:26:00.674
+If I got a lot of unplanned tasks,
+
+00:26:00.640 --> 00:26:03.679
+I could look at those unplanned tasks to see, oh yeah, okay,
+
+00:26:03.680 --> 00:26:07.639
+that was fine. Okay, the day didn't go as
+
+00:26:07.640 --> 00:26:14.999
+planned, but it was, yeah. That's an excellent suggestion.
+
+00:26:15.000 --> 00:26:20.119
+I generally just And I ended up long of a to-do list. It's
+
+00:26:20.120 --> 00:26:25.079
+impossible to accomplish in a day. Then I just like
+
+00:26:25.080 --> 00:26:29.799
+furnaces. Another trick that I liked was I also put like that
+
+00:26:29.800 --> 00:26:34.719
+under like a week. Cause it makes more sense to do it under a
+
+00:26:34.720 --> 00:26:39.079
+week. And then I'd have like subheadings under that, like,
+
+00:26:39.080 --> 00:26:45.079
+you know, so week day. Um, then I'd have those three
+
+00:26:45.080 --> 00:26:48.599
+categories for each of the tasks and then kind of as an
+
+00:26:48.600 --> 00:26:51.719
+unofficial day at the end, I just like have a staging area for
+
+00:26:51.720 --> 00:26:56.199
+all tasks. So I just kind of, then I just, I want to be using org
+
+00:26:56.200 --> 00:27:00.319
+agenda. So then I just be moving up and down, you know, cause
+
+00:27:00.320 --> 00:27:03.199
+you could, cause you're able to rearrange stuff in org mode
+
+00:27:03.200 --> 00:27:08.079
+so easily. I don't know if there's a good way of, that's been
+
+00:27:08.080 --> 00:27:11.919
+my favorite iteration
+
+00:27:11.920 --> 00:27:20.759
+of doing it. So I wrote a little function that pops in the
+
+00:27:20.760 --> 00:27:25.439
+to-dos that are specific to a particular project in the log
+
+00:27:25.440 --> 00:27:31.359
+file for that project.
+
+00:27:31.360 --> 00:27:36.599
+And then I add the log file name to the list of org files that
+
+00:27:36.600 --> 00:27:41.919
+Org Agenda searches, so those to-dos will show up. But my
+
+00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:46.199
+list is too long, and that becomes overwhelming. So I'll
+
+00:27:46.200 --> 00:27:51.399
+just assign a to-do heading to the top item in my to-do list to
+
+00:27:51.400 --> 00:27:54.479
+try to, but maybe it should be three. That would be a
+
+00:27:54.480 --> 00:27:58.479
+reasonable compromise.
+
+00:27:58.480 --> 00:28:03.879
+That's a good idea.
+
+00:28:03.880 --> 00:28:12.879
+So you're doing weekly planning then? I can show up. I was.
+
+00:28:12.880 --> 00:28:16.879
+This is, yeah, this was, yeah. What ended up making me stop is
+
+00:28:16.880 --> 00:28:20.439
+I didn't know how to make a template of it. And I, I ended up
+
+00:28:20.440 --> 00:28:25.879
+getting annoyed by manually changing the days every single
+
+00:28:25.880 --> 00:28:29.759
+time and naming like my files and stuff like that. If I Maybe
+
+00:28:29.760 --> 00:28:34.159
+if I did it now, I could figure out how to program it or if I
+
+00:28:34.160 --> 00:28:36.439
+spent enough time, but that's what I think eventually made
+
+00:28:36.440 --> 00:28:42.479
+me stop doing it. So there's a, um, you can make a snippet for
+
+00:28:42.480 --> 00:28:45.640
+the week and then you could have code in the snippet that
+
+00:28:45.680 --> 00:28:51.519
+would generate the dates automatically. Um, So I have like
+
+00:28:51.520 --> 00:28:56.599
+for my daily entry, I have a snippet called entry and then I
+
+00:28:56.600 --> 00:29:02.079
+hit tab and our control or whatever to insert the snippet and
+
+00:29:02.080 --> 00:29:07.919
+that has the current date already entered. So I skip that, I
+
+00:29:07.920 --> 00:29:13.479
+don't have to deal with that. So I think you could probably
+
+00:29:13.480 --> 00:29:18.639
+feed what you want to accomplish to a copilot, for example,
+
+00:29:18.640 --> 00:29:21.801
+being copilot. I've been using Bing Copilot
+
+00:29:21.802 --> 00:29:25.833
+for the past three or four months to return
+
+00:29:25.834 --> 00:29:29.227
+Elisp code that works 90% of the time.
+
+00:29:29.228 --> 00:29:34.399
+I've been pretty impressed. And it's free. So no
+
+00:29:34.400 --> 00:29:43.119
+API key required. It runs. So I guess I installed the Bing
+
+00:29:43.120 --> 00:29:49.362
+Copilot plugin in the Google Chrome.
+
+00:29:49.363 --> 00:29:50.199
+And that's what I've been using.
+
+00:29:50.200 --> 00:30:00.807
+Yeah, I can show you my screen if
+
+00:30:00.808 --> 00:30:05.852
+you want to see what the screen looks like.
+
+00:30:05.853 --> 00:30:06.839
+I can email you the template. I kind of have it saved as a
+
+00:30:06.840 --> 00:30:12.639
+template. I've got to find it, though. Let's see.
+
+00:30:12.640 --> 00:30:17.439
+Not exactly set up to.
+
+00:30:17.440 --> 00:30:44.159
+Alright, so. I
+
+00:30:44.160 --> 00:30:50.159
+don't know if you can see this well enough, but...
+
+00:30:50.160 --> 00:30:59.599
+Yeah, let's make it bigger. Can you see that at all? I can see a
+
+00:30:59.600 --> 00:31:01.279
+little bit of it. Yeah, it's kind of blurry.
+
+00:31:01.280 --> 00:31:07.399
+Alright, well. But then you just do that right there. So it's
+
+00:31:07.400 --> 00:31:13.239
+all color coded. I, so I get a sense of, uh, uh, what the kind of
+
+00:31:13.240 --> 00:31:18.599
+greenish blue lines must be or days, I guess, or. Okay. Well,
+
+00:31:18.600 --> 00:31:22.639
+right. There's like, so you can see like startup show two
+
+00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:27.519
+levels. Then I have like numbers right there. So right on one
+
+00:31:27.520 --> 00:31:30.919
+day you have like the core tasks, there's three out of four
+
+00:31:30.920 --> 00:31:37.119
+done. Then I have like secondary and unplanned and then.
+
+00:31:37.120 --> 00:31:42.079
+Yeah, that's just the general idea
+
+00:31:42.080 --> 00:31:50.319
+So that this is you raise you know the so the dilemma I face of
+
+00:31:50.320 --> 00:31:55.119
+course is that I have maintain like a to-do list and our
+
+00:31:55.120 --> 00:31:58.799
+project specific and then there's the all the other things I
+
+00:31:58.800 --> 00:32:04.439
+have to do and So there should be like some The org agenda
+
+00:32:04.440 --> 00:32:09.879
+should be a way of being able to pull the two sets together, I
+
+00:32:09.880 --> 00:32:10.319
+guess.
+
+00:32:10.320 --> 00:32:16.959
+I had broken up my,
+
+00:32:16.960 --> 00:32:25.359
+well, I had way too many to-do lists stored in various
+
+00:32:25.360 --> 00:32:25.919
+places.
+
+00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:32.199
+And so that's a problem, I guess, when you have too many
+
+00:32:32.200 --> 00:32:37.359
+to-dos and the org Agenda becomes overwhelming and sort of
+
+00:32:37.360 --> 00:32:44.479
+discourages Yeah, I figure that the general task on that is
+
+00:32:44.480 --> 00:32:49.199
+like I start writing things up. I get more and more items.
+
+00:32:49.200 --> 00:32:52.319
+I'll make a master to-do list. Oh my master to-do list has too
+
+00:32:52.320 --> 00:32:58.759
+many items. Let me throw it out Well, there's another name
+
+00:32:58.760 --> 00:33:01.559
+for that kind of list you could you know called a grass
+
+NOTE Time Power
+
+00:33:01.560 --> 00:33:06.959
+catcher list. So Charles Hobbs was this, he wrote a book in
+
+00:33:06.960 --> 00:33:16.079
+the 80s called Time Power. And he had like, you know, so he was
+
+00:33:16.080 --> 00:33:22.679
+one of these time management gurus. And so, let's
+
+00:33:22.680 --> 00:33:26.519
+see, you get the name of some, like Tony Robbins and,
+
+00:33:26.520 --> 00:33:34.879
+I forget the name of the other guy, that's Brian Tracy. So
+
+00:33:34.880 --> 00:33:39.119
+that they have kind of pushed the same kind of similar
+
+00:33:39.120 --> 00:33:43.279
+approaches. But Charles Hobbs had a very more organized
+
+00:33:43.280 --> 00:33:46.679
+approach, I think, and more disciplined. And he identified
+
+00:33:46.680 --> 00:33:49.439
+that kind of list as a grass catcher list, where you have a
+
+00:33:49.440 --> 00:33:52.839
+list of items that you think you might want to do, but you
+
+00:33:52.840 --> 00:33:57.359
+haven't prioritized them yet. And you haven't scheduled
+
+00:33:57.360 --> 00:34:03.199
+them yet. but they need a safe place to be stored. When time
+
+00:34:03.200 --> 00:34:06.199
+permits, the idea was you would pull items off that grass
+
+00:34:06.200 --> 00:34:10.599
+catcher list and move it into a to-do item that you will
+
+00:34:10.600 --> 00:34:18.079
+schedule and commit to getting done. That was the idea,
+
+00:34:18.080 --> 00:34:20.999
+separating them between core tasks, secondary tasks,
+
+00:34:21.000 --> 00:34:24.119
+unplanned tasks, because your whole day can't be planned.
+
+00:34:24.120 --> 00:34:27.919
+Right, right. You have things you have to do that are
+
+00:34:27.920 --> 00:34:31.319
+unscheduled that come through your door or land in your
+
+00:34:31.320 --> 00:34:35.239
+inbox or land in your email. You've got to do them. And then
+
+00:34:35.240 --> 00:34:38.799
+core tasks, I don't know, like to-do lists, their whole
+
+00:34:38.800 --> 00:34:43.279
+point is. So for instance, like journal and Zettelkasten
+
+00:34:43.280 --> 00:34:46.679
+are kind of, and like that's global lists versus the daily
+
+00:34:46.680 --> 00:34:49.399
+lists are kind of. done a little differently. With
+
+00:34:49.400 --> 00:34:53.639
+Zettelkasten, it's organic. Things build up. If you make a
+
+00:34:53.640 --> 00:34:56.359
+note, it's great. If you don't, if it has a small amount,
+
+00:34:56.360 --> 00:35:00.479
+that's great. Have a small note. With a daily to-do, you want
+
+00:35:00.480 --> 00:35:05.199
+to use it to make decisions. That's the idea of having the
+
+00:35:05.200 --> 00:35:08.639
+core task and the secondary task separate because the whole
+
+00:35:08.640 --> 00:35:12.719
+thing about it is, I wanna use this to eliminate what I'm
+
+00:35:12.720 --> 00:35:15.759
+going to do. It's to choose what I'm going to do, like the core
+
+00:35:15.760 --> 00:35:19.839
+tasks. Because if I can get my core tasks, I can be happy with
+
+00:35:19.840 --> 00:35:26.519
+my previous days. And then I would probably start using
+
+00:35:26.520 --> 00:35:30.639
+agenda a lot more if I was more consistent with using like
+
+00:35:30.640 --> 00:35:34.439
+these as like weekly files. I don't know. But then the whole
+
+00:35:34.440 --> 00:35:37.559
+goal thing is just like, let me see what I wanna populate the
+
+00:35:37.560 --> 00:35:43.879
+day list with. So how many core tasks wind up spanning
+
+00:35:43.880 --> 00:35:47.359
+multiple days because they're such big projects?
+
+00:35:47.360 --> 00:35:54.519
+I would need more time using the system before I'd figure
+
+00:35:54.520 --> 00:35:59.679
+something like that out. As I said, I'm not using it right
+
+00:35:59.680 --> 00:36:04.759
+now, but that has been my favorite iteration of using these.
+
+00:36:04.760 --> 00:36:13.519
+So within the core tasks, do you assign priorities? So the
+
+00:36:13.520 --> 00:36:20.279
+way I would translate this a little bit would be like in this
+
+00:36:20.280 --> 00:36:24.999
+method that Charles Hobbs had, he had a category for the
+
+00:36:25.000 --> 00:36:29.399
+items that you really have to get done, and they're really
+
+00:36:29.400 --> 00:36:34.119
+important. And so they get a priority of A. And then the
+
+00:36:34.120 --> 00:36:39.519
+secondary tasks would get a priority of B. But then within
+
+00:36:39.520 --> 00:36:42.079
+the A category, you would number them like one through
+
+00:36:42.080 --> 00:36:45.039
+three, I guess. All right, so this would be part of the
+
+00:36:45.040 --> 00:36:49.079
+purpose of separating the daily list or like the weekly list
+
+00:36:49.080 --> 00:36:51.719
+from the global list. So for instance, your global list,
+
+00:36:51.720 --> 00:36:55.679
+you'd say, I want this project that will take a long duration
+
+00:36:55.680 --> 00:37:00.639
+of time. But your daily list would just say, I want to work on
+
+00:37:00.640 --> 00:37:05.039
+it today, even if I don't get it done today. Like, I want to
+
+00:37:05.040 --> 00:37:11.399
+work on it today. then maybe you can link like for instance
+
+00:37:11.400 --> 00:37:16.239
+that your daily list to that global list or something along
+
+00:37:16.240 --> 00:37:20.479
+those lines. But that would be I think a good answer to that
+
+00:37:20.480 --> 00:37:24.719
+type of problem because yeah, the daily list is like
+
+00:37:24.720 --> 00:37:30.999
+supposed to be for that day, not for, Like for instance, you
+
+00:37:31.000 --> 00:37:34.679
+start out clean, you make the list like that would probably
+
+00:37:34.680 --> 00:37:38.599
+be your first task for the week is what do I want for the week?
+
+00:37:38.600 --> 00:37:41.639
+Then you have some tasks that you do with staging. And then
+
+00:37:41.640 --> 00:37:43.799
+like for instance, since you look at it as a whole week at a
+
+00:37:43.800 --> 00:37:47.559
+time, you're able to rearrange it and say, these are the
+
+00:37:47.560 --> 00:37:51.159
+things I wanna get done this week. This is what I really wanna
+
+00:37:51.160 --> 00:37:53.639
+get done on this day. This is what I don't care about on this
+
+00:37:53.640 --> 00:37:53.959
+day or yeah.
+
+00:37:53.960 --> 00:38:03.079
+Another person that kind of, and this is kind of related,
+
+00:38:03.080 --> 00:38:05.559
+there's this idea of
+
+00:38:05.560 --> 00:38:14.039
+of time blocking. So obviously, three tasks, core tasks,
+
+00:38:14.040 --> 00:38:18.839
+maybe they're going to take three or four hours each or two or
+
+00:38:18.840 --> 00:38:23.919
+three. And you can assign blocks of time in your schedule to
+
+00:38:23.920 --> 00:38:30.039
+get them done. And often, what happens is they take longer
+
+00:38:30.040 --> 00:38:33.799
+than you expect. And you have to extend the blocks. Calvin
+
+00:38:33.800 --> 00:38:39.359
+Newport has a that's a kind of approach he advocates is you
+
+00:38:39.360 --> 00:38:43.519
+and I think the power to that is you're you. you're mapping
+
+00:38:43.520 --> 00:38:48.599
+out, you know, you're allocating the time to do these things
+
+00:38:48.600 --> 00:38:52.679
+and you're seeing how you actually, how much time things
+
+00:38:52.680 --> 00:38:56.119
+actually take. And then you, so you wind up adjusting in the
+
+00:38:56.120 --> 00:39:00.079
+future. And the idea is with this approach is do it on paper.
+
+00:39:00.080 --> 00:39:03.559
+And then you have to like, uh, if something takes longer,
+
+00:39:03.560 --> 00:39:06.599
+that pushes everything else down. You just wind up
+
+00:39:06.600 --> 00:39:12.799
+redrawing your schedule for the day, uh, manually. And, um,
+
+00:39:12.800 --> 00:39:17.399
+So it's kind of laborious, and that labor is supposed to
+
+00:39:17.400 --> 00:39:21.799
+inhibit you from spending too much time on a project. As you
+
+00:39:21.800 --> 00:39:24.959
+know, you've got the pain of redrawing everything if you
+
+00:39:24.960 --> 00:39:27.919
+spend too much time on the first project.
+
+00:39:27.920 --> 00:39:36.999
+Yeah, there was a, let's see. It's whatever you strategy you
+
+00:39:37.000 --> 00:39:40.359
+want to do. Like for instance, to me, it's like doing it this
+
+00:39:40.360 --> 00:39:45.519
+way makes me say, I want to focus on like what matters. Then
+
+00:39:45.520 --> 00:39:49.239
+it'll tell me if I feel good about that day, depends on what
+
+00:39:49.240 --> 00:39:52.759
+algorithm, what level and what type of strategy you're
+
+00:39:52.760 --> 00:39:56.119
+using. If you're using time blocking, you're optimizing
+
+00:39:56.120 --> 00:40:02.879
+for each level of time block where I'm, where's like, And you
+
+00:40:02.880 --> 00:40:09.359
+can combine the approaches. It'd be trickier. But like, now
+
+00:40:09.360 --> 00:40:12.919
+let's see. I was listening to a talk with Jordan Peterson.
+
+00:40:12.920 --> 00:40:15.159
+One of the things he said that really resonated with me is
+
+00:40:15.160 --> 00:40:19.119
+like, you wanna use a calendar, but the first rule of using a
+
+00:40:19.120 --> 00:40:24.599
+calendar is don't let the calendar tyrannize you. Because
+
+00:40:24.600 --> 00:40:27.999
+like the first thing you wanna do whenever you use a calendar
+
+00:40:28.000 --> 00:40:33.039
+is schedule every single minute of the day Now you don't have
+
+00:40:33.040 --> 00:40:37.279
+any room for if any task overruns at all. And after a couple of
+
+00:40:37.280 --> 00:40:42.719
+tests, you're like, I don't want to do this anymore. I rebel.
+
+00:40:42.720 --> 00:40:49.879
+I'm going to throw it out. So one kind of combination is
+
+00:40:49.880 --> 00:40:53.799
+through this Pomodoro method I mentioned earlier, where
+
+00:40:53.800 --> 00:40:57.719
+you would sort of like block out, say, two hours. You work for
+
+00:40:57.720 --> 00:41:02.199
+like 25 minutes, take a little, break for up to five minutes
+
+00:41:02.200 --> 00:41:07.279
+and get back to work. And then after two hours, you're to take
+
+00:41:07.280 --> 00:41:11.119
+like a 15 minute break in the morning. In the afternoon, you
+
+00:41:11.120 --> 00:41:14.599
+might even let that break run longer and you might only have
+
+00:41:14.600 --> 00:41:19.279
+three work sessions between breaks. So because you're
+
+00:41:19.280 --> 00:41:24.319
+going to be more run down in the afternoon. And so you build in
+
+00:41:24.320 --> 00:41:26.919
+some
+
+00:41:26.920 --> 00:41:31.639
+into your schedule, some flex like, okay, that's supposed
+
+00:41:31.640 --> 00:41:34.439
+to be a break time, but you know, maybe some urgency comes up
+
+00:41:34.440 --> 00:41:37.999
+and you got to deal with, um, and you have to break out of this,
+
+00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:44.039
+uh, Pomodoro technique. So, uh, that, that, that's one way
+
+00:41:44.040 --> 00:41:48.799
+of kind of scheduling in some, uh, flexibility is through
+
+00:41:48.800 --> 00:41:54.399
+the breaks at Peterson's[??], right. Right. That... I can't, I
+
+00:41:54.400 --> 00:41:59.239
+can't... I don't schedule to that kind of detail. That's just
+
+00:41:59.240 --> 00:42:00.039
+too oppressive.
+
+00:42:00.040 --> 00:42:05.399
+Well, neither do I, but it's like that, like I, that's, I
+
+00:42:05.400 --> 00:42:09.119
+don't try to, to me, the much more interesting question that
+
+00:42:09.120 --> 00:42:12.479
+I tried to do is like, let's try to make sure I do the important
+
+00:42:12.480 --> 00:42:15.199
+things. Cause if I do those, my life would probably move a lot
+
+00:42:15.200 --> 00:42:19.319
+quicker. If I get, if I choose a couple items that I really
+
+00:42:19.320 --> 00:42:22.239
+want and am able to consistently do them, I think my life
+
+00:42:22.240 --> 00:42:26.319
+would bastically start improving. Not necessarily if I can
+
+00:42:26.320 --> 00:42:28.879
+play the game of optimizing every hour.
+
+00:42:28.880 --> 00:42:36.879
+Maybe that could be, and it's a place to start rather, and I
+
+00:42:36.880 --> 00:42:39.079
+think it'd be the most effective place to start. And if I got
+
+00:42:39.080 --> 00:42:42.719
+better at using it all the time, perhaps I'd be playing
+
+00:42:42.720 --> 00:42:46.999
+optimizing every hour game. But this is the game I think
+
+00:42:47.000 --> 00:42:52.719
+would be best bang for buck for me to optimize now. What
+
+00:42:52.720 --> 00:42:56.039
+you're trying to optimize for is accomplishing these core
+
+00:42:56.040 --> 00:43:03.559
+tasks, getting them done as quickly as possible, or as
+
+00:43:03.560 --> 00:43:10.559
+effectively as possible, and as effectively as you need, or
+
+00:43:10.560 --> 00:43:15.359
+whatever your goal is. But yeah, focusing on that rather
+
+00:43:15.360 --> 00:43:19.679
+than the scheduling, I think. Plus, a core task could be, I
+
+00:43:19.680 --> 00:43:26.119
+don't know, catch up on all my house chores, or let, or do a
+
+00:43:26.120 --> 00:43:28.879
+specific one if it's really big or like, I don't know, it's
+
+00:43:28.880 --> 00:43:32.159
+whatever you want it to be. It's like, you can make them
+
+00:43:32.160 --> 00:43:37.559
+bigger or smaller depending on, on how you word them and
+
+00:43:37.560 --> 00:43:40.919
+everything. Cause like, if you say cap, capture all of your
+
+00:43:40.920 --> 00:43:44.879
+house chores up for like one week and you haven't done
+
+00:43:44.880 --> 00:43:47.279
+anything, that's probably a little too ambitious.
+
+00:43:47.280 --> 00:43:56.439
+That's right. Yeah, well, a lot of. Yeah.
+
+00:43:56.440 --> 00:44:03.039
+I spend, I don't know, at least 15 minutes, half an hour at the
+
+00:44:03.040 --> 00:44:07.119
+beginning of the day, sort of my my planning and sort of my
+
+00:44:07.120 --> 00:44:12.359
+initial writing session is involves a bit of planning and
+
+00:44:12.360 --> 00:44:20.399
+there's always. A lot more time. So generally, depending on
+
+00:44:20.400 --> 00:44:21.279
+the nature of your work,
+
+00:44:21.280 --> 00:44:28.119
+it can take up to 15% of your time. It can take quite a bit of
+
+00:44:28.120 --> 00:44:33.919
+time. And I think people don't really acknowledge that as
+
+00:44:33.920 --> 00:44:39.039
+part of your work is planning. And it can take a significant
+
+00:44:39.040 --> 00:44:39.839
+amount of time.
+
+00:44:39.840 --> 00:44:44.799
+Yeah, that's what I was meaning though is like the very first
+
+00:44:44.800 --> 00:44:48.119
+thing I think people generally always try to do with the
+
+00:44:48.120 --> 00:44:51.279
+scanners like look at how productive I can be let's schedule
+
+00:44:51.280 --> 00:44:55.319
+every single minute up and it's like You're not gonna want to
+
+00:44:55.320 --> 00:45:00.519
+do that for very long and it's not gonna work out And what you
+
+00:45:00.520 --> 00:45:06.359
+were saying about The pomodoro technique one of the core
+
+00:45:06.360 --> 00:45:11.919
+Let's see, one of the benefits could be described of another
+
+00:45:11.920 --> 00:45:16.879
+benefit I've seen of like multiple habits books is if you
+
+00:45:16.880 --> 00:45:19.599
+start multiple small habits where you try to do them
+
+00:45:19.600 --> 00:45:23.319
+consistently, you give yourself an opening to where if you
+
+00:45:23.320 --> 00:45:28.279
+get into the flow state, you can do a lot more of it. Like, I
+
+00:45:28.280 --> 00:45:31.759
+don't know, let's say you got a habit of, I don't know, just
+
+00:45:31.760 --> 00:45:36.519
+write a journal entry. You're a journal entry of like at
+
+00:45:36.520 --> 00:45:39.279
+least two lines. I don't know that could very easily turn to
+
+00:45:39.280 --> 00:45:42.759
+like three paragraphs and if you have like a whole bunch of
+
+00:45:42.760 --> 00:45:46.279
+Like the pomodoro technique it could be like stubs to allow
+
+00:45:46.280 --> 00:45:47.639
+you to do more stuff
+
+00:45:47.640 --> 00:45:54.319
+Where are they in spur to allow inspiration to allow you to
+
+00:45:54.320 --> 00:45:57.239
+generate inspiration and then capture it when it strikes if
+
+00:45:57.240 --> 00:45:58.759
+the mood fancies you
+
+00:45:58.760 --> 00:46:08.319
+Yeah, so that's kind of an issue with the Pomodoro
+
+00:46:08.320 --> 00:46:13.839
+technique. So, one idea is that you just, if you really have
+
+00:46:13.840 --> 00:46:19.359
+to break out, because the idea is too big to put on the back
+
+00:46:19.360 --> 00:46:24.359
+burner and hold in place, then you do have to break out of the
+
+00:46:24.360 --> 00:46:30.039
+Pomodoro and go, you know, jot down a quick note or three
+
+00:46:30.040 --> 00:46:30.719
+paragraphs.
+
+00:46:30.720 --> 00:46:36.839
+but like how much... You don't get to count that as a
+
+00:46:36.840 --> 00:46:40.679
+Pomodoro. You have to like reset your count because you've
+
+00:46:40.680 --> 00:46:48.759
+broken it. I mean, according to that method, it's
+
+00:46:48.760 --> 00:46:52.879
+kind of rigid. It's a different algorithm optimizing for
+
+00:46:52.880 --> 00:46:55.479
+different things. And this may just be like a by-product,
+
+00:46:55.480 --> 00:47:00.759
+but this could be very easily like a core advantage that may
+
+00:47:00.760 --> 00:47:05.599
+or may not be the core reason that you were using it but didn't
+
+00:47:05.600 --> 00:47:08.719
+realize it, and may not be something that it's optimizing
+
+00:47:08.720 --> 00:47:17.399
+for. So
+
+00:47:17.400 --> 00:47:22.159
+are you developing a Emacs package then with your template?
+
+00:47:22.160 --> 00:47:30.319
+No. As I said,
+
+00:47:30.320 --> 00:47:36.319
+My next steps where I think would make it work a lot better is
+
+00:47:36.320 --> 00:47:39.999
+if I figured out some way of automatically filling out the
+
+00:47:40.000 --> 00:47:45.439
+dates or maybe automatically adding the file per week into
+
+00:47:45.440 --> 00:47:51.999
+and out of Org Agenda. That would be my next steps. I think if I
+
+00:47:52.000 --> 00:47:55.719
+did that, it would have a much greater chance of becoming
+
+00:47:55.720 --> 00:48:01.879
+part of my workflow at all times. Yeah, I bet you could do it
+
+00:48:01.880 --> 00:48:08.439
+pretty Something I got to work with the help of copilot. I'm
+
+00:48:08.440 --> 00:48:14.959
+not a wizard yet at Emacs Lisp, but I find that copilot is
+
+00:48:14.960 --> 00:48:26.439
+quite helpful.
+
+00:48:26.440 --> 00:48:32.799
+Yeah, their AIs are definitely interesting.
+
+NOTE Do you use a lot of TeX inside Org Mode?
+
+00:48:32.800 --> 00:48:38.279
+So. do you ever use any, uh, a lot of TeX inside of org mode?
+
+00:48:38.280 --> 00:48:49.639
+No, mostly because I know that like I could try to learn it,
+
+00:48:49.640 --> 00:48:57.639
+but I just don't have a need for it. So yeah. And then also like
+
+00:48:57.640 --> 00:49:05.279
+I remember learning, when I learned HTML, I like writing
+
+00:49:05.280 --> 00:49:08.519
+HTML more than like, for instance, Word, because it was a lot
+
+00:49:08.520 --> 00:49:14.959
+more transparent, like a plain text document is, and kind of
+
+00:49:14.960 --> 00:49:20.159
+wrote the ordered list, unordered list, in such a way that it
+
+00:49:20.160 --> 00:49:25.599
+kind of looked similar to the page. But I find that I like Org
+
+00:49:25.600 --> 00:49:26.439
+Mode more than,
+
+00:49:26.440 --> 00:49:35.479
+HTML because, well, it's optimized for, like, my writing
+
+00:49:35.480 --> 00:49:38.479
+and consumption and overall use case rather than, like,
+
+00:49:38.480 --> 00:49:43.359
+optimizing it for somebody else to view, which I generally
+
+00:49:43.360 --> 00:49:45.039
+don't have as much.
+
+00:49:45.040 --> 00:49:52.799
+But, so, like, I don't know. Org Mode is what I'm going to end
+
+00:49:52.800 --> 00:49:57.879
+up using the most, so. I just want to use LaTeX enough.
+
+00:49:57.880 --> 00:50:00.999
+Although I'd be interested in learning LaTeX snippets
+
+00:50:01.000 --> 00:50:06.519
+inside of Org Mode for like the math stuff, but then again, I
+
+00:50:06.520 --> 00:50:13.479
+just never have to type it. So my attitude towards Org Mode
+
+00:50:13.480 --> 00:50:18.199
+changed radically over the summer. I was avoiding it
+
+00:50:18.200 --> 00:50:25.439
+somewhat before and then when I realized I can keep all the
+
+00:50:25.440 --> 00:50:33.279
+great aspects of LaTeX and still use all the great features
+
+00:50:33.280 --> 00:50:39.959
+of Org Mode. So I view now, I think of Org Mode as a wrapper
+
+00:50:39.960 --> 00:50:44.559
+around LaTeX. I know it's not really that, but by thinking
+
+00:50:44.560 --> 00:50:49.159
+about it that way, uh, it's much more palatable to me to, uh,
+
+00:50:49.160 --> 00:50:54.679
+uh, just go, uh, commit to doing as much as possible in org
+
+00:50:54.680 --> 00:50:58.559
+mode. So I've been, that's what I've been doing. Um, this
+
+00:50:58.560 --> 00:51:01.839
+fall is just, uh, every document I started as an org file.
+
+00:51:01.840 --> 00:51:09.959
+I imagine I would like it if I knew it, it's just because I,
+
+00:51:09.960 --> 00:51:13.319
+because I imagine it would feel to me like HTML, or it's just
+
+00:51:13.320 --> 00:51:18.519
+like, Yeah, I can write it, I can format it the way I want to.
+
+00:51:18.520 --> 00:51:24.439
+This is just guesses from my experience with HTML. I can read
+
+00:51:24.440 --> 00:51:27.679
+the source code of it and kind of get an idea of how it will look
+
+00:51:27.680 --> 00:51:30.919
+like, but I just...
+
+00:51:30.920 --> 00:51:36.799
+It's like if you're gonna use the Linux terminal, but you're
+
+00:51:36.800 --> 00:51:41.639
+gonna use it for an hour a week every... Yeah, an hour a week.
+
+00:51:41.640 --> 00:51:45.199
+It's just like, it's just not enough time to dedicate to
+
+00:51:45.200 --> 00:51:48.279
+learn it for to start paying off. That's right. And you can
+
+00:51:48.280 --> 00:51:52.559
+always export your org file to an HTML file.
+
+00:51:52.560 --> 00:51:56.079
+Yeah.
+
+00:51:56.080 --> 00:52:06.039
+But the org file is what I stare at 95% of the time or more. I
+
+00:52:06.040 --> 00:52:10.519
+only use a PDF. So I export to PDF generally. And when I export
+
+00:52:10.520 --> 00:52:16.239
+to HTML, it's very cool. I like looking at the document in the
+
+00:52:16.240 --> 00:52:20.879
+web browser. I like navigating it. But I generally will
+
+00:52:20.880 --> 00:52:24.879
+export it to PDF so I can print it out when I'm traveling to
+
+00:52:24.880 --> 00:52:30.439
+carry out editing. But that's just a small, tiny fraction of
+
+00:52:30.440 --> 00:52:34.039
+the time that I'm actually working with the document. So
+
+00:52:34.040 --> 00:52:38.119
+most of the time it's in org mode. You know, maybe it doesn't
+
+00:52:38.120 --> 00:52:44.199
+look as pretty as in, you know, uh, HTML, but it's, uh, it's so
+
+00:52:44.200 --> 00:52:48.679
+such a pleasure to work in because of the way you can reorder
+
+NOTE Org Mode versus Markdown
+
+00:52:48.680 --> 00:52:55.119
+lists, you know, create headlines. So what about org mode
+
+00:52:55.120 --> 00:52:57.719
+versus Markdown? Cause I know when, cause when I looked at
+
+00:52:57.720 --> 00:53:00.559
+org mode versus Markdown, I was like, yeah, more stuff
+
+00:53:00.560 --> 00:53:05.039
+supports Markdown, but. Org mode has more stuff built into
+
+00:53:05.040 --> 00:53:10.519
+it, like the calendar and agenda stuff. And it's obvious
+
+00:53:10.520 --> 00:53:14.559
+what this is supposed to be in org mode. And Emacs has got the
+
+00:53:14.560 --> 00:53:18.919
+best client. I use Emacs. And I think it's got a better syntax
+
+00:53:18.920 --> 00:53:23.319
+than Markdown. You've got stuff like Obsidian and Notes.
+
+00:53:23.320 --> 00:53:30.959
+And what about the Markdown? So Markdown, I use it a lot on
+
+00:53:30.960 --> 00:53:35.479
+GitHub repositories for the readme files. Sometimes I'll
+
+00:53:35.480 --> 00:53:38.959
+do them in org, but generally just go with the GitHub
+
+00:53:38.960 --> 00:53:44.159
+Markdown. But tables are still kind of a pain in Markdown,
+
+00:53:44.160 --> 00:53:48.719
+whereas tables are such a pleasure to build in org mode,
+
+00:53:48.720 --> 00:53:52.959
+because you have that dynamic adjusting of the column width
+
+00:53:52.960 --> 00:53:59.239
+as you make entries that become wider. And it's so easy to add
+
+00:53:59.240 --> 00:54:04.159
+columns. And it's so hard to add columns. It's much harder in
+
+00:54:04.160 --> 00:54:12.479
+Markdown and in LaTeX. It's more of a pain to add new columns.
+
+00:54:12.480 --> 00:54:16.919
+So the table aspect, that, to me, was one of the killer
+
+00:54:16.920 --> 00:54:20.439
+features. And then the other killer feature, of course, is
+
+00:54:20.440 --> 00:54:24.159
+the literate programming or interactive programming. So
+
+00:54:24.160 --> 00:54:26.559
+interactive computing that you can do where you have a code
+
+00:54:26.560 --> 00:54:30.639
+block and then you can execute it and have the output show up
+
+00:54:30.640 --> 00:54:35.159
+right below the code block. And
+
+00:54:35.160 --> 00:54:40.839
+org modes support for that kind of interactive computing is
+
+00:54:40.840 --> 00:54:46.039
+I'm not aware of anything more sophisticated, because you
+
+00:54:46.040 --> 00:54:50.799
+could have parallel sessions. You could have four Python
+
+00:54:50.800 --> 00:54:55.039
+sessions going, each of them labeled differently. And
+
+00:54:55.040 --> 00:54:57.519
+they're all walled off from each other. They don't see each
+
+00:54:57.520 --> 00:55:07.079
+other. Or you can have different programming languages. So
+
+00:55:07.080 --> 00:55:11.039
+you can do polyglottic
+
+00:55:11.040 --> 00:55:14.359
+programming where you have... Maybe Python's generating a
+
+00:55:14.360 --> 00:55:18.239
+table, and then that table gets, you decide you want to plot
+
+00:55:18.240 --> 00:55:24.199
+it using R, or you want to use ggplot2 and R to plot it, so that
+
+00:55:24.200 --> 00:55:29.719
+table gets fed into R in the next code block down, and then
+
+00:55:29.720 --> 00:55:33.559
+below it, you get a graph made in R, or you can make it in new
+
+00:55:33.560 --> 00:55:39.559
+plot, or you could, or some other, or you could move it into a
+
+00:55:39.560 --> 00:55:47.399
+LaTeX code block, plot the data in with Tikz,
+
+00:55:47.400 --> 00:55:52.719
+or you could move it into Clojure and use one of the
+
+00:55:52.720 --> 00:55:56.399
+Clojure plotting programs. Just kind of limitless what you
+
+00:55:56.400 --> 00:56:00.119
+can do in terms of recombining the best of different
+
+00:56:00.120 --> 00:56:01.599
+programming languages.
+
+00:56:01.600 --> 00:56:09.239
+Yeah, let's see. The literate DevOps are really good talks
+
+00:56:09.240 --> 00:56:13.359
+and subjects to get into this type of stuff. And they give a
+
+00:56:13.360 --> 00:56:17.119
+very good example of some tips on how to do this. You start
+
+00:56:17.120 --> 00:56:20.359
+writing in the previous or past tenses, though. You got the
+
+00:56:20.360 --> 00:56:23.719
+answer already, and then your notes are already formatted
+
+00:56:23.720 --> 00:56:28.559
+out as you're doing it for after the fact. And like, one thing
+
+NOTE Raku
+
+00:56:28.560 --> 00:56:32.679
+I like doing a lot is using the Raku language as a calculator,
+
+00:56:32.680 --> 00:56:37.239
+because I can just type in math as normal and it all works.
+
+00:56:37.240 --> 00:56:44.919
+I've tried that. Yeah, you can just say like, I don't know, 25
+
+00:56:44.920 --> 00:56:49.559
+times four with, and you can put like parentheses in it. I'm
+
+00:56:49.560 --> 00:56:55.039
+not exactly, I haven't used it very heavily. Oh, it also
+
+00:56:55.040 --> 00:57:01.839
+supports Unicode. So if you wanted to have
+
+00:57:01.840 --> 00:57:07.319
+the not equals sign, the Unicode not equals sign, it will
+
+00:57:07.320 --> 00:57:12.919
+actually do that. Cool. Or like the division sign. I don't
+
+00:57:12.920 --> 00:57:22.759
+know how it will do it. Yeah. But yeah. And then using that in,
+
+00:57:22.760 --> 00:57:28.239
+I also wrote a shell script where it would just help me do a
+
+00:57:28.240 --> 00:57:31.879
+calculation. I was trying to do a business calculation
+
+00:57:31.880 --> 00:57:35.359
+where I was, and I'd have variable names and I ended up
+
+00:57:35.360 --> 00:57:39.319
+writing the, in the parentheses I'd have enters, returns,
+
+00:57:39.320 --> 00:57:42.319
+and then just a variable name with like a dollar sign, kind of
+
+00:57:42.320 --> 00:57:45.799
+like how you'd have in the shell. And I outputted every
+
+00:57:45.800 --> 00:57:47.479
+single line that I had in the enter.
+
+00:57:47.480 --> 00:57:54.479
+six or 10 variables in this paragraph, the paragraph
+
+00:57:54.480 --> 00:57:57.759
+spanned, I don't know, like four lines or something like
+
+00:57:57.760 --> 00:58:01.039
+that. Maybe, yeah, something, I think it was along those
+
+00:58:01.040 --> 00:58:04.599
+lines. And I was just thinking of like what this would be in
+
+00:58:04.600 --> 00:58:07.879
+something else, just like, it was a lot nicer. Yeah, I had
+
+00:58:07.880 --> 00:58:10.879
+like equations for the variable, like in like one line, but
+
+00:58:10.880 --> 00:58:13.839
+when I wrote that, what my output should be is like, like I
+
+00:58:13.840 --> 00:58:16.359
+wasn't putting all of these like, you know, string join,
+
+00:58:16.360 --> 00:58:21.159
+string join, string join, It looked relatively close to
+
+00:58:21.160 --> 00:58:25.239
+what my terminal output would be, and then a later iteration
+
+00:58:25.240 --> 00:58:29.039
+I found on this was, let's write what I'm going to put into the
+
+00:58:29.040 --> 00:58:36.119
+command line, made a couple changeable variables in it, and
+
+00:58:36.120 --> 00:58:40.039
+then I can see my results, and that ended up being very nice.
+
+00:58:40.040 --> 00:58:44.199
+Ended up being nicer than the shells. Yeah, ended up
+
+00:58:44.200 --> 00:58:45.959
+enhancing that shell script that I wrote.
+
+00:58:45.960 --> 00:58:50.919
+That's a Raku calculator.
+
+00:58:50.920 --> 00:58:57.759
+Uh, it's the Raku programming language, which I was just
+
+00:58:57.760 --> 00:59:02.479
+using it, which I was just using as, which I'll just use as
+
+00:59:02.480 --> 00:59:06.079
+just straight up that calculator. Cause I'll do like,
+
+00:59:06.080 --> 00:59:11.999
+because it supports math well enough that I, like I, yeah,
+
+00:59:12.000 --> 00:59:17.239
+you can put like 25 divided by four and it doesn't start
+
+00:59:17.240 --> 00:59:24.439
+doing, what's the word, modular fractal, the double math,
+
+00:59:24.440 --> 00:59:28.079
+like it,
+
+00:59:28.080 --> 00:59:28.639
+if it's,
+
+00:59:28.640 --> 00:59:34.439
+the double math where it's like negative .2 versus like
+
+00:59:34.440 --> 00:59:40.399
+minus one, or sometimes it'll do optimized computer math
+
+00:59:40.400 --> 00:59:43.999
+where it doesn't give you the right answer, why people will
+
+00:59:44.000 --> 00:59:44.639
+like Mathematica.
+
+00:59:44.640 --> 00:59:56.439
+So, how do you, do you access it through, in org mode then?
+
+00:59:56.440 --> 01:00:05.199
+I'll do it in that. Sometimes I just fire up a Raku shell, but
+
+01:00:05.200 --> 01:00:09.159
+one of the biggest things I'll fire up a Raku shell for is like
+
+01:00:09.160 --> 01:00:17.399
+just, um, what's oh just recently I was just like doing it for
+
+01:00:17.400 --> 01:00:20.399
+some math and like how many people how much money will I have
+
+01:00:20.400 --> 01:00:24.559
+to spend on Christmas oh I've got I'm gonna buy this gift it's
+
+01:00:24.560 --> 01:00:33.799
+gonna cost this much and then I've got so let's I think 15
+
+01:00:33.800 --> 01:00:37.959
+times four because it's no 60 divided by four because it was a
+
+01:00:37.960 --> 01:00:42.919
+four pack And then times, and then I put it in parentheses,
+
+01:00:42.920 --> 01:00:47.519
+oh, four plus like two plus two, because like of the
+
+01:00:47.520 --> 01:00:49.119
+families, each of the units, and I just started doing it that
+
+01:00:49.120 --> 01:00:53.479
+way. And I put them all in a parentheses. And then at the end of
+
+01:00:53.480 --> 01:00:55.959
+this spit out the numbers, like, so I could just use the
+
+01:00:55.960 --> 01:00:58.279
+parentheses without thinking about, you know, like, oh,
+
+01:00:58.280 --> 01:01:02.679
+I'm actually in a programming language. No, I just kind of
+
+01:01:02.680 --> 01:01:07.279
+wrote it like I was in algebra, algebra, not in,
+
+01:01:07.280 --> 01:01:11.359
+not finding some special program, not finding a
+
+01:01:11.360 --> 01:01:14.999
+calculator, because it's easy for me to file up a terminal.
+
+01:01:15.000 --> 01:01:20.439
+Then I open that up, and it all just works. Plus, I also got a
+
+01:01:20.440 --> 01:01:22.639
+full programming language behind it if I ever need it.
+
+01:01:22.640 --> 01:01:33.679
+I wasn't aware that it utilizes standard math notation
+
+01:01:33.680 --> 01:01:37.279
+rather than the Polish math notation that we use in ELISP.
+
+01:01:37.280 --> 01:01:42.839
+Um, that's interesting because it's, it's in the list
+
+01:01:42.840 --> 01:01:45.279
+family of programming languages.
+
+01:01:45.280 --> 01:01:54.399
+Yeah. It's like, Hey, I can use, I can actually use my math
+
+01:01:54.400 --> 01:01:57.879
+knowledge. I can use the order of operations.
+
+01:01:57.880 --> 01:02:00.879
+Yep.
+
+01:02:00.880 --> 01:02:07.999
+I just wish that when I was in high school, they started
+
+01:02:08.000 --> 01:02:10.239
+telling me how to practically use this rather than me
+
+01:02:10.240 --> 01:02:14.119
+discover it years later when I'm out of it. Yeah.
+
+01:02:14.120 --> 01:02:27.399
+Well, I probably better move along to attend the other
+
+01:02:27.400 --> 01:02:32.839
+talks. All right. So it's been great talking to you, Plasma
+
+01:02:32.840 --> 01:02:35.159
+Strike. Yep, you too.
diff --git a/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-rust--an-experimental-emacs-core-in-rust--troy-hinckley--answers.vtt b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-rust--an-experimental-emacs-core-in-rust--troy-hinckley--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..1b881325
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-rust--an-experimental-emacs-core-in-rust--troy-hinckley--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,926 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:06.519
+Okay, so I'm going to look at some of the questions showing up
+
+00:00:06.520 --> 00:00:08.499
+in the etherpad we got here.
+
+NOTE Q: Have you considered using CRDTs to share buffers between threads and merge any concurrent edits automatically?
+
+00:00:08.500 --> 00:00:09.439
+It says, have you considered
+
+00:00:09.440 --> 00:00:12.799
+using a CRDT to share buffers between threads and merge any
+
+00:00:12.800 --> 00:00:16.039
+concurrent edits automatically? So I have looked at that.
+
+00:00:16.040 --> 00:00:20.559
+And the problem with CRDTs is that even though they give you a
+
+00:00:20.560 --> 00:00:22.839
+mathematically correct answer when you're trying to merge
+
+00:00:22.840 --> 00:00:26.479
+two conflicts, it's not always a useful answer. Like, it's
+
+00:00:26.480 --> 00:00:29.199
+not coherent. If you have two things trying to edit the same
+
+00:00:29.200 --> 00:00:31.359
+thing, there's no good way to resolve that. And so they
+
+00:00:31.360 --> 00:00:33.559
+really work well when you have two people working live, both
+
+00:00:33.560 --> 00:00:35.639
+editing the same document, because they can fix any
+
+00:00:35.640 --> 00:00:37.199
+particular issues like that, like you would with Google
+
+00:00:37.200 --> 00:00:39.919
+Docs. But you have different packages that aren't aware of
+
+00:00:39.920 --> 00:00:42.159
+each other, and you're going to run into problems. And so
+
+00:00:42.160 --> 00:00:44.999
+this is something, if you read from the Xi editor, which was
+
+00:00:45.000 --> 00:00:48.039
+one of the first ones to use CRDTs, in the retrospective, he
+
+00:00:48.040 --> 00:00:52.359
+talks about how they had this problem, where the CRDTs They
+
+00:00:52.360 --> 00:00:53.999
+give you an answer, but it's not always an answer that's
+
+00:00:54.000 --> 00:00:59.079
+useful. And so I feel like locks at least are going to make it.
+
+00:00:59.080 --> 00:01:00.439
+It's not going to be as efficient if you have a whole bunch of
+
+00:01:00.440 --> 00:01:02.319
+packages, but I don't imagine there's going to be a ton of
+
+00:01:02.320 --> 00:01:04.799
+those. It can actually, I think it'll be more useful in
+
+00:01:04.800 --> 00:01:05.873
+practice.
+
+NOTE Q: Why hosted on GitHub? GitHub is nonfree. Is it possible to report bugs/send patches without using GitHub?
+
+00:01:05.874 --> 00:01:11.239
+I host on GitHub because that's what I know.
+
+00:01:11.240 --> 00:01:13.239
+If there's a way to host it on somewhere else, I'd be
+
+00:01:13.240 --> 00:01:15.439
+interested in doing that. If you're interested in setting
+
+00:01:15.440 --> 00:01:17.799
+patches without using GitHub, you could always send an
+
+00:01:17.800 --> 00:01:22.959
+email. I'm more than happy to accept email patches.
+
+NOTE Q: Do you think it's possible to achieve 100% compatibility with current Emacs code?
+
+00:01:22.960 --> 00:01:24.959
+Do you think it's possible to achieve with the current Emacs
+
+00:01:24.960 --> 00:01:29.719
+code? I do. I think, I think you can do that. Um, like I said,
+
+00:01:29.720 --> 00:01:33.279
+there's a couple things inside there that are intentional
+
+00:01:33.280 --> 00:01:37.919
+breaks with existing Emacs code. And some of those being
+
+00:01:37.920 --> 00:01:43.159
+like functions are immutable. As well as having data shared
+
+00:01:43.160 --> 00:01:44.759
+switch between different threads, which means there's
+
+00:01:44.760 --> 00:01:46.599
+going to be some copying going on. So there's going to be
+
+00:01:46.600 --> 00:01:48.399
+subtle things that are going to be different. And we've
+
+00:01:48.400 --> 00:01:50.359
+really got to think about those intentionally, but I'm
+
+00:01:50.360 --> 00:01:54.519
+really going for bug compatibility with GNU Emacs so that
+
+00:01:54.520 --> 00:01:57.159
+you can take an existing Elisp package and just run it and it
+
+00:01:57.160 --> 00:01:59.879
+just works, 'cause I think that's one of the big strengths of
+
+00:01:59.880 --> 00:02:03.399
+the Emacs ecosystem is the millions of lines of Elisp that
+
+00:02:03.400 --> 00:02:07.479
+people have written.
+
+00:02:07.480 --> 00:02:11.912
+Um, So I'm not, okay...
+
+NOTE Q: so you're re-implementing elisp in rust? have you considered using a more modern lisp, such as scheme? [11:03]
+
+00:02:11.913 --> 00:02:14.279
+So since you're re-implementing Elisp and
+
+00:02:14.280 --> 00:02:17.039
+Rust, have you considered using more modern Lisp such as
+
+00:02:17.040 --> 00:02:20.919
+Scheme? So I'm not re-implementing Elisp and Rust. I'm
+
+00:02:20.920 --> 00:02:25.439
+re-implementing the C in Rust. In fact, I would like to make
+
+00:02:25.440 --> 00:02:30.479
+more of the core that's written in C in Elisp instead of C or
+
+00:02:30.480 --> 00:02:33.839
+Rust, because then it's actually introspectible. There's
+
+00:02:33.840 --> 00:02:38.719
+a talk by Tom Tromney that he gave a while ago about Emacs
+
+00:02:38.720 --> 00:02:42.239
+should be Emacs Lisp. I kind of like that philosophy,
+
+00:02:42.240 --> 00:02:44.799
+that as much of it as should be Elisp as possible, and we
+
+00:02:44.800 --> 00:02:48.079
+should only have C or Rust or some systems level language for
+
+00:02:48.080 --> 00:02:52.319
+really low-level stuff. Using a more modern LISP such as
+
+00:02:52.320 --> 00:02:54.839
+Scheme. I know there's, I mean, there's two talks, I think,
+
+00:02:54.840 --> 00:02:58.239
+in this conference about using Scheme inside Emacs. And I
+
+00:02:58.240 --> 00:03:00.719
+looked at this at one point about what if you wrote it inside
+
+00:03:00.720 --> 00:03:03.919
+Common LISP, because that's also has some really low level
+
+00:03:03.920 --> 00:03:05.879
+details. And then you could go from Elisp down to Common
+
+00:03:05.880 --> 00:03:09.199
+Lisp. But the problem is, is under the hood, you still need a
+
+00:03:09.200 --> 00:03:12.559
+systems language. You can't, you still need either C or Rust
+
+00:03:12.560 --> 00:03:15.639
+or something underneath the Common Lisp to implement the
+
+00:03:15.640 --> 00:03:17.799
+primitives. And so it's not going to give you just two
+
+00:03:17.800 --> 00:03:19.719
+languages, you know, you'll have three. You'll have the
+
+00:03:19.720 --> 00:03:24.919
+elisp, common lisp, and C under the hood. And so in this case
+
+00:03:24.920 --> 00:03:29.559
+we just have the two. We have the Elisp and the rest.
+
+00:03:29.560 --> 00:03:42.999
+All right that's all the questions I see there. Let
+
+00:03:43.000 --> 00:03:54.079
+me go look at... Okay,
+
+00:03:54.080 --> 00:04:01.399
+so I see into the chat.
+
+NOTE Q: Do you have specific features from the Rust compiler that are missing (or are nightly-only) that you would take advantage of?
+
+00:04:01.400 --> 00:04:03.839
+Does it features from the Rust compiler that are missing
+
+00:04:03.840 --> 00:04:06.239
+that way you would take advantage of? Oh, that is a great
+
+00:04:06.240 --> 00:04:10.679
+question. Um, there's a handful of them. Uh, I should've
+
+00:04:10.680 --> 00:04:13.599
+written down a list of these. One of them is Polonius, which
+
+00:04:13.600 --> 00:04:17.959
+is the new borrow checker because we're trying to be used
+
+00:04:17.960 --> 00:04:21.759
+lifetime to track our objects. We often run into situations
+
+00:04:21.760 --> 00:04:24.239
+where we've kind of got a hack around things because the
+
+00:04:24.240 --> 00:04:26.199
+limitations with the borrow checker. And so I have a whole
+
+00:04:26.200 --> 00:04:29.559
+bunch of like notes inside there about where. A better
+
+00:04:29.560 --> 00:04:34.959
+Polonius would help inside there and help ease some of the
+
+00:04:34.960 --> 00:04:40.599
+issues. Another thing is enum variances types, because
+
+00:04:40.600 --> 00:04:42.999
+right now we have an object which is defined as a big enum that
+
+00:04:43.000 --> 00:04:46.079
+had all the possible objects, but if we want to have a subset
+
+00:04:46.080 --> 00:04:47.479
+of those objects or just pass in one of those objects, we've
+
+00:04:47.480 --> 00:04:50.079
+got to define a new struct. And so we have a whole bunch of
+
+00:04:50.080 --> 00:04:52.839
+boilerplate code to define that all out. And if we had
+
+00:04:52.840 --> 00:04:56.719
+variances types, that would make the code a lot easier.
+
+00:04:56.720 --> 00:05:00.079
+Another one is the allocator API. Right now we're kind of
+
+00:05:00.080 --> 00:05:02.479
+working around it, but ultimately we're going to need our
+
+00:05:02.480 --> 00:05:07.719
+own allocator. And the allocator API is still nightly only.
+
+00:05:07.720 --> 00:05:10.919
+So there's a couple more. I'll look at that more, but that's a
+
+00:05:10.920 --> 00:05:24.279
+great question.
+
+00:05:24.280 --> 00:05:26.879
+Let's see.
+
+NOTE Q: Can remacs be reused?
+
+00:05:26.880 --> 00:05:30.799
+Okay. I see a question you might not have noticed just asking
+
+00:05:30.800 --> 00:05:37.159
+about reuse of Remacs. Oh, yes, so I have reused some of Remacs
+
+00:05:37.160 --> 00:05:40.159
+code, and some taken, like I mentioned, taken some of their
+
+00:05:40.160 --> 00:05:45.319
+ideas, but ultimately we're using a different model
+
+00:05:45.320 --> 00:05:49.439
+because under the hood in Remacs, everything is just defined
+
+00:05:49.440 --> 00:05:53.799
+as an opaque external type that's defined inside Emacs and
+
+00:05:53.800 --> 00:05:56.159
+so it just pulls those in interacts with those and passes
+
+00:05:56.160 --> 00:05:58.879
+them back into C. We're trying to see what we can do if we
+
+00:05:58.880 --> 00:06:02.279
+say okay we're not going to take the same... So they're bound to
+
+00:06:02.280 --> 00:06:06.839
+the implementation details of Emacs, and we don't want to do
+
+00:06:06.840 --> 00:06:09.559
+that. We've re-implemented all the core types
+
+00:06:09.560 --> 00:06:12.559
+ourselves. So that means that we can't just take the
+
+00:06:12.560 --> 00:06:16.559
+Remacs code one for one and use it in our project, but we can
+
+00:06:16.560 --> 00:06:18.799
+take a lot of their ideas. I've spent some time reading
+
+00:06:18.800 --> 00:06:20.439
+through their documentation, different things about how
+
+00:06:20.440 --> 00:06:23.856
+they approached strings and GC
+
+00:06:23.857 --> 00:06:24.759
+and different stuff like that.
+
+00:06:24.760 --> 00:07:23.599
+Looks like all the questions.
+
+NOTE Q: What are you thoughts on the GUI layer. Any plans on how to reimplement it?
+
+00:07:23.600 --> 00:07:26.199
+Okay, so another question. What are your thoughts on the GUI
+
+00:07:26.200 --> 00:07:30.959
+layer? Any plans on how to reimplement it? This is something
+
+00:07:30.960 --> 00:07:34.079
+I've thought a lot about, but I still don't have a solid plan
+
+00:07:34.080 --> 00:07:37.253
+for. I'm not really a GUI person. I mostly work with
+
+00:07:37.254 --> 00:07:42.719
+low-level. And so my two thoughts is you can go the GTK route.
+
+00:07:42.720 --> 00:07:45.519
+There's Rust bindings for that. That's well understood.
+
+00:07:45.520 --> 00:07:48.319
+It's got a good support. But there's also some interesting
+
+00:07:48.320 --> 00:07:53.919
+projects to try and do GUI in Rust, native Rust, and have it
+
+00:07:53.920 --> 00:07:57.399
+use Rust idioms and stuff like that. And so those are things
+
+00:07:57.400 --> 00:08:01.439
+like Druid and there's eGUI and a bunch of those that are that
+
+00:08:01.440 --> 00:08:05.359
+way. And I've never used one of them, but I'd be interested to
+
+00:08:05.360 --> 00:08:08.879
+try that out first and see how well does this work and how well
+
+00:08:08.880 --> 00:08:21.239
+supported is this doing a Rust-first GUI.
+
+NOTE Q: If money could fix the problem, how much would it cost to ship this with feature parity before 2026?
+
+00:08:21.240 --> 00:08:23.639
+If money could fix the problem, how much would it cost to ship
+
+00:08:23.640 --> 00:08:28.399
+this with feature parity before 2026? Ooh, in a year. Uh,
+
+00:08:28.400 --> 00:08:32.079
+that's a good question. Even if we had the money, it would
+
+00:08:32.080 --> 00:08:36.639
+take more than just me, even if I was working on it full time.
+
+00:08:36.640 --> 00:08:40.630
+Um, I don't know. That's a good question.
+
+00:08:40.631 --> 00:08:41.769
+I would think it would take a team
+
+00:08:41.770 --> 00:08:45.239
+of at least a handful of people to get this
+
+00:08:45.240 --> 00:08:48.559
+shipping within one year. Because there's still a lot of
+
+00:08:48.560 --> 00:08:50.759
+work to do. And even once you have everything implemented,
+
+00:08:50.760 --> 00:08:55.119
+there's a lot of bug finding and smoothing it out so that it
+
+00:08:55.120 --> 00:08:57.519
+runs as well as Emacs, which has been, you know, battle
+
+00:08:57.520 --> 00:08:58.359
+tested for a long time.
+
+00:08:58.360 --> 00:09:06.599
+Um, okay, so this might be a good moment for me to break in and
+
+00:09:06.600 --> 00:09:09.039
+just say that we've got about 10 minutes left before we
+
+00:09:09.040 --> 00:09:12.519
+resume new talks on on both tracks. Of course, we're happy to
+
+00:09:12.520 --> 00:09:18.119
+keep this. This chat open and keep the recording going here,
+
+00:09:18.120 --> 00:09:21.599
+which will share after the conference as long as as long as
+
+00:09:21.600 --> 00:09:28.349
+there's discussion here. Thank you.
+
+NOTE GObject implementation
+
+00:09:28.350 --> 00:09:29.119
+GTK project has
+
+00:09:29.120 --> 00:09:31.079
+automatic binding with a framework called GObject
+
+00:09:31.080 --> 00:09:33.599
+introspection, which is what I'm using for gypsum project.
+
+00:09:33.600 --> 00:09:35.959
+Probably Rust has a G object implementation, which you can
+
+00:09:35.960 --> 00:09:39.119
+use. Yeah, I know it has some GTK bindings. Um, I'm not sure if
+
+00:09:39.120 --> 00:09:41.954
+it's specifically GObject, but that's a good path
+
+00:09:41.955 --> 00:09:44.335
+because I feel like the problem
+
+00:09:44.336 --> 00:09:46.759
+with the Rust GUIs is that they're all
+
+00:09:46.760 --> 00:09:50.359
+very new. And so, you know, everything works in a demo, but
+
+00:09:50.360 --> 00:09:52.319
+you need something that can work across all different
+
+00:09:52.320 --> 00:09:54.319
+devices and all different platforms and have really good
+
+00:09:54.320 --> 00:09:56.599
+support and good accessibility and stuff like that.
+
+NOTE Q: elisp is implemented in c, so if you're not implementing elisp in rust, are you using/keeping the c implementation of elisp?
+
+00:09:56.600 --> 00:10:03.399
+All right, Elisp is implemented in C. So if you're not
+
+00:10:03.400 --> 00:10:07.359
+implementing Elisp in Rust, we're keeping the C
+
+00:10:07.360 --> 00:10:13.639
+implementation of Elisp. So let me see if I can do a better job
+
+00:10:13.640 --> 00:10:18.439
+of explaining this. So inside Emacs, you have about a
+
+00:10:18.440 --> 00:10:21.519
+million lines of Elisp. And underneath that, you have the C,
+
+00:10:21.520 --> 00:10:24.079
+which is the primitives everything's implemented yet. And
+
+00:10:24.080 --> 00:10:27.079
+so we're keeping all of the Elisp, and we're just taking that
+
+00:10:27.080 --> 00:10:30.559
+C layer and replacing it with Rust. And so when you call a
+
+00:10:30.560 --> 00:10:33.079
+built-in function, it's calling into a Rust function
+
+00:10:33.080 --> 00:10:40.079
+instead of a C function under the hood. So all the Elisp stays
+
+00:10:40.080 --> 00:10:42.679
+Elisp, but the C becomes Rust.
+
+NOTE Clarifying rewriting Elisp in Rust
+
+00:10:42.680 --> 00:10:54.599
+So looking at the IRC chat, it feels to me like maybe there's a
+
+00:10:54.600 --> 00:10:59.159
+little bit of confusion around what do we mean when we say
+
+00:10:59.160 --> 00:11:04.839
+rewriting Elisp in Rust, right? I think there are some
+
+00:11:04.840 --> 00:11:07.399
+people that are like, A, we're reinventing ELISP, and
+
+00:11:07.400 --> 00:11:09.679
+there's other people that are like, no, we're trying to be
+
+00:11:09.680 --> 00:11:12.879
+byte-for-byte compatible with Rust.
+
+00:11:12.880 --> 00:11:17.500
+So some people are questioning your no answer on that.
+
+00:11:17.501 --> 00:11:20.000
+Aren't you really, maybe, is what I'm reading in there.
+
+00:11:20.001 --> 00:11:21.769
+Do you want to respond to that?
+
+00:11:21.770 --> 00:11:26.119
+Yeah, I'm trying to think about how I can make this
+
+00:11:26.120 --> 00:11:29.559
+clearer. So the Elisp stays Elisp. We're not changing the
+
+00:11:29.560 --> 00:11:33.239
+Elisp at all, or at least very minimally. We want to be able to
+
+00:11:33.240 --> 00:11:36.519
+take, like I said, bug compatible. So whatever works inside
+
+00:11:36.520 --> 00:11:39.999
+existing Emacs, you can take all the Lisp and you can run it in
+
+00:11:40.000 --> 00:11:43.599
+Rune and it works the same. So the Elisp stays the same. It's
+
+00:11:43.600 --> 00:11:47.119
+just the under the hood core that is getting replaced. And
+
+00:11:47.120 --> 00:11:49.199
+this in turn adds some new features such as
+
+00:11:49.200 --> 00:11:52.799
+multi-threading. So it's not exactly compatible, but
+
+00:11:52.800 --> 00:11:55.559
+you should be able to use your existing code and the Elisp will
+
+00:11:55.560 --> 00:12:00.639
+stay Elisp. So the idea is that anything that I've written as
+
+00:12:00.640 --> 00:12:04.559
+an Emacs user, my config, my custom packages, whatever it
+
+00:12:04.560 --> 00:12:08.999
+may be, that's all going to be valid code. If you take, you
+
+00:12:09.000 --> 00:12:13.163
+know, the Elisp implementation as being the C code
+
+00:12:13.164 --> 00:12:15.745
+and the parts of Elisp written in Elisp
+
+00:12:15.746 --> 00:12:18.448
+that represent opportunity space
+
+00:12:18.449 --> 00:12:20.799
+thinking about Rust as an implementation language...
+
+00:12:20.800 --> 00:12:24.479
+Okay fine. You know, you can make a semantic argument, okay
+
+00:12:24.480 --> 00:12:25.995
+we're re-implementing, we're creating
+
+00:12:25.996 --> 00:12:29.018
+an alternate implementation of Elisp
+
+00:12:29.019 --> 00:12:31.639
+but what Elisp is isn't the problem
+
+00:12:31.640 --> 00:12:35.039
+space here. That's a fixed, a given, if you will.
+
+00:12:35.040 --> 00:12:36.065
+Is that all right?
+
+00:12:36.066 --> 00:12:39.199
+That's a good way of saying it. Okay. Yeah, what you
+
+00:12:39.200 --> 00:12:42.559
+said makes sense. I was kind of responding to some comments,
+
+00:12:42.560 --> 00:12:44.959
+like I'm not sure it connected for everybody. Makes a lot of
+
+00:12:44.960 --> 00:12:47.399
+sense. Yeah, I wasn't sure how much I needed to expand on that
+
+00:12:47.400 --> 00:12:51.119
+and explain that, but I appreciate you jumping in.
+
+00:12:51.120 --> 00:12:57.907
+Um, okay. So if I were just going to, but...
+
+NOTE Q: Will your Rust implementation also be able to run Emacs bytecode? Or are you implementing it at the Lisp level?
+
+00:12:57.908 --> 00:13:02.239
+Will your Rust implementation also be able to run Emacs bytecode or the
+
+00:13:02.240 --> 00:13:04.359
+implemented at the Lisp level? So I already have a bytecode
+
+00:13:04.360 --> 00:13:06.759
+interpreter inside there that runs the existing Elisp
+
+00:13:06.760 --> 00:13:09.519
+bytecode. And so that was one of the first things I did was
+
+00:13:09.520 --> 00:13:11.679
+bootstrap the interpreter and then bootstrap the bytecode
+
+00:13:11.680 --> 00:13:14.999
+engine. And so we compile, we use the... because the bytecode
+
+00:13:15.000 --> 00:13:19.079
+compiler is written in Emacs Lisp. So you bootstrap that
+
+00:13:19.080 --> 00:13:22.919
+and it gives you the Emacs bytecode. I have a bytecode
+
+00:13:22.920 --> 00:13:26.039
+engine that runs the bytecode. So that's already done. And
+
+00:13:26.040 --> 00:13:28.239
+you can potentially, on top of that, do something like the
+
+00:13:28.240 --> 00:13:31.999
+data compilation or a JIT. But we have both an
+
+00:13:32.000 --> 00:13:47.019
+interpreter and a bytecode compiler.
+
+00:13:47.020 --> 00:13:50.799
+And I'll just break in one more time to say with about five
+
+00:13:50.800 --> 00:13:56.319
+minutes left in our live time with this Q&A session, which
+
+00:13:56.320 --> 00:13:58.439
+we're happy to keep going as long as there are questions.
+
+00:13:58.440 --> 00:14:03.959
+Coming up in five minutes, we'll have a talk on color on the
+
+00:14:03.960 --> 00:14:09.639
+gen track. And then right here, we'll have the p-search
+
+00:14:09.640 --> 00:14:09.959
+talk.
+
+00:14:09.960 --> 00:14:20.099
+Thank you.
+
+NOTE Q: Is it possible to bootstrap with just the bytecode interpreter?
+
+00:14:20.100 --> 00:14:22.559
+Is it possible to bootstrap with just the bytecode
+
+00:14:22.560 --> 00:14:25.759
+interpreter? So I'll have to put in a link to one of my blog
+
+00:14:25.760 --> 00:14:28.519
+posts. So that was my original idea was to say, I don't want to
+
+00:14:28.520 --> 00:14:31.559
+have an interpreter, a bytecode interpreter and a native
+
+00:14:31.560 --> 00:14:33.180
+compiler. I want to just have just one.
+
+00:14:33.181 --> 00:14:36.741
+So I'm only going to have the bytecode.
+
+00:14:36.742 --> 00:14:37.708
+And so that's what I did initially.
+
+00:14:37.709 --> 00:14:42.079
+The problem with that is, is that a bunch of the early bootstrap
+
+00:14:42.080 --> 00:14:45.117
+Emacs code is written with the assumption
+
+00:14:45.118 --> 00:14:47.278
+that it's going to be interpreted.
+
+00:14:47.279 --> 00:14:49.019
+This is especially true with macros,
+
+00:14:49.020 --> 00:14:50.821
+where you'll have a function defined,
+
+00:14:50.822 --> 00:14:52.642
+you'll evaluate part of the function.
+
+00:14:52.643 --> 00:14:55.599
+The other half of the function has macros in it
+
+00:14:55.600 --> 00:14:59.719
+that are not defined yet, but it doesn't matter because they
+
+00:14:59.720 --> 00:15:02.399
+don't get used. But with the bytecode interpreter, it
+
+00:15:02.400 --> 00:15:04.639
+expands all macros when it gets the function definition.
+
+00:15:04.640 --> 00:15:08.799
+And so those weren't macros when the function was expanded,
+
+00:15:08.800 --> 00:15:12.359
+and therefore they got instantiated as functions, but
+
+00:15:12.360 --> 00:15:15.759
+they're not functions, they're macros. And so I initially
+
+00:15:15.760 --> 00:15:18.999
+spent a bunch of time trying to work around this, trying to
+
+00:15:19.000 --> 00:15:21.599
+move code around, work stuff around, refactor the code to
+
+00:15:21.600 --> 00:15:24.759
+try and get it to work with only bytecode interpreter. And
+
+00:15:24.760 --> 00:15:27.039
+eventually I just gave up. I said, you know what, I'm just
+
+00:15:27.040 --> 00:15:30.039
+going to write an actual interpreter to handle this because
+
+00:15:30.040 --> 00:15:33.799
+trying to handle all these lazy macros is too much work. And
+
+00:15:33.800 --> 00:15:35.759
+everything in the bootstrap is built with the assumption
+
+00:15:35.760 --> 00:15:37.799
+that you have lazy macro expansion.
+
+00:15:37.800 --> 00:15:45.159
+I'm guessing the Emacs bytecode interpreter isn't
+
+00:15:45.160 --> 00:15:45.959
+complete.
+
+00:15:45.960 --> 00:15:52.279
+So it's mostly complete. There's a handful of opcodes that
+
+00:15:52.280 --> 00:15:55.239
+aren't implemented that are pretty easy to add that I
+
+00:15:55.240 --> 00:15:57.879
+haven't run into. And there's some of them that are
+
+00:15:57.880 --> 00:16:00.119
+deprecated that aren't implemented, but it's essentially
+
+00:16:00.120 --> 00:16:00.479
+complete.
+
+00:16:00.480 --> 00:16:11.999
+We also provide a bytecode JIT compilation via libgcc the
+
+00:16:12.000 --> 00:16:17.344
+way Emacs currently does it. Eventually I would like to...
+
+00:16:17.345 --> 00:16:22.919
+I'm more inclined to have a proper runtime JIT than an
+
+00:16:22.920 --> 00:16:27.399
+ahead-of-time compiler like libgcc, like the current
+
+00:16:27.400 --> 00:16:29.919
+Emacs native compilation, because it allows you to take
+
+00:16:29.920 --> 00:16:34.559
+type information and actually apply that to the code, which
+
+00:16:34.560 --> 00:17:03.959
+can let you do more aggressive optimizations to it.
+
+NOTE What would it take to bootstrap Guile in Rune?
+
+00:17:03.960 --> 00:17:06.319
+He said, we may either get a new Emacs with an ancient C core
+
+00:17:06.320 --> 00:17:09.039
+with a modern Lisp, or an Emacs with modern core, but stuck
+
+00:17:09.040 --> 00:17:11.879
+with ancient Elisp. So there was another project I was
+
+00:17:11.880 --> 00:17:16.639
+talking to, one of the Guile implementations, about how we
+
+00:17:16.640 --> 00:17:19.119
+could potentially, he was like, what would it take to
+
+00:17:19.120 --> 00:17:24.479
+bootstrap Guile in Rune, where you have both, you could have
+
+00:17:24.480 --> 00:17:27.399
+Elisp and Guile running inside this project. And so we've
+
+00:17:27.400 --> 00:17:28.999
+started that discussion, which I think would be, which
+
+00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:33.999
+would be interesting. But it's tricky too, because
+
+00:17:34.000 --> 00:17:36.199
+fundamentally Elisp and Guile are two different
+
+00:17:36.200 --> 00:17:38.119
+languages. They have different semantics. They have
+
+00:17:38.120 --> 00:17:39.879
+different ways of handling things. You've really got to
+
+00:17:39.880 --> 00:17:42.479
+consider both of those when you're trying to make them work
+
+00:17:42.480 --> 00:17:42.799
+together.
+
+00:17:42.800 --> 00:17:57.319
+How would you do the native module system? What would be
+
+00:17:57.320 --> 00:17:59.799
+different? We can do the same thing. We have an FFI. So I
+
+00:17:59.800 --> 00:18:03.839
+haven't looked into it a ton, but I feel like it could be
+
+00:18:03.840 --> 00:18:06.359
+similar. And I'm actually interested, there's a couple
+
+00:18:06.360 --> 00:18:12.759
+projects on GitHub right now to have an FFI written in Elisp.
+
+00:18:12.760 --> 00:18:17.239
+So you don't even need to create a separate C or Rust module,
+
+00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:21.679
+because you can actually write native modules in Rust or C.
+
+00:18:21.680 --> 00:18:25.559
+And so you can just have direct bindings to a C FFI written in
+
+00:18:25.560 --> 00:18:27.799
+Elisp. You don't need any C code inside there. And I think
+
+00:18:27.800 --> 00:18:33.699
+that would be an interesting approach to look at as well.
+
+00:18:33.700 --> 00:18:35.839
+Oh, Ramin. Yeah, that's right. We were talking about that,
+
+00:18:35.840 --> 00:18:41.539
+about bootstrapping Scheme.
+
+00:18:41.540 --> 00:18:45.519
+And at this point, we have broken away from, uh, from this
+
+00:18:45.520 --> 00:18:47.399
+talk, but we're continuing to record and this will all be
+
+00:18:47.400 --> 00:18:50.439
+published. I'd say, go ahead and keep going as long as you'd
+
+00:18:50.440 --> 00:18:54.959
+like in here. And, um, thanks once again for the awesome
+
+00:18:54.960 --> 00:18:58.639
+discussion. Thank you so much. So I'll just pay attention to
+
+00:18:58.640 --> 00:19:02.919
+the ether pad and the chat and see.
+
+00:19:02.920 --> 00:19:05.919
+That sounds good. I'll keep an eye on IRC. And if there are
+
+00:19:05.920 --> 00:19:08.559
+more questions here, I'll bounce people toward the ether
+
+00:19:08.560 --> 00:19:12.760
+pad or this, uh, chat room. All right, thank you.
diff --git a/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-students--an-example-of-a-cohesive-student-workflow-in-emacs--daniel-pinkston--answers.vtt b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-students--an-example-of-a-cohesive-student-workflow-in-emacs--daniel-pinkston--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..2ea0a13c
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-students--an-example-of-a-cohesive-student-workflow-in-emacs--daniel-pinkston--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,846 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:11.119
+And I believe we are live. Hi, Daniel, how are you doing? I'm
+
+00:00:11.120 --> 00:00:17.199
+doing great. It's cold outside, but it's nice in here, yeah.
+
+00:00:17.200 --> 00:00:21.439
+I can assure you it's very cold in my own place as well. We do
+
+00:00:21.440 --> 00:00:24.679
+EmacsConf always in December and that's always when it's
+
+00:00:24.680 --> 00:00:27.479
+particularly cold where I live and I assume where you live as
+
+00:00:27.480 --> 00:00:31.039
+well. So, don't worry, we'll try to keep you warm with
+
+00:00:31.040 --> 00:00:35.039
+interesting questions. But first, thank you for taking the
+
+00:00:35.040 --> 00:00:38.359
+time out of your busy high school life to make a presentation
+
+NOTE Q: Do you have any thoughts about the process of recording something for a conference?
+
+00:00:38.360 --> 00:00:41.439
+about Emacs. Do you have any thoughts about the process of
+
+00:00:41.440 --> 00:00:44.399
+recording something for a conference? Because I assume
+
+00:00:44.400 --> 00:00:47.279
+it's one of the first ones you're ever doing.
+
+00:00:47.280 --> 00:00:55.879
+I think it was not as difficult as I thought it would be. I just
+
+00:00:55.880 --> 00:01:04.479
+recorded in my basement and prepared some notes
+
+00:01:04.480 --> 00:01:08.639
+beforehand. I think it was definitely helpful to have Emacs
+
+00:01:08.640 --> 00:01:11.959
+as a tool for that, because I made my presentation with
+
+00:01:11.960 --> 00:01:18.559
+Beamer. Right. I mean, it's amazing to see so many of the
+
+00:01:18.560 --> 00:01:22.519
+tools because, you know, you've shown Emacs, but you've
+
+00:01:22.520 --> 00:01:27.399
+shown Beamer. You've shown tools that are about twice as old
+
+00:01:27.400 --> 00:01:30.239
+as you are yourself, which is amazing when you think about
+
+00:01:30.240 --> 00:01:33.199
+it. But I think many people in the audience can actually
+
+00:01:33.200 --> 00:01:36.479
+relate to your discovery of those tools because we were
+
+00:01:36.480 --> 00:01:40.679
+pretty much, I mean a lot of us were your age when we started
+
+00:01:40.680 --> 00:01:43.999
+playing with those tools so it's like there's a little bit of
+
+00:01:44.000 --> 00:01:45.759
+nostalgia that we feel looking at your presentation
+
+00:01:45.760 --> 00:01:48.719
+because we are, we can see the excitement behind everything
+
+00:01:48.720 --> 00:01:51.919
+you've touched and that's great for us because it brings us
+
+00:01:51.920 --> 00:01:55.919
+back maybe 10 or 20 years in the past and for others perhaps 30
+
+00:01:55.920 --> 00:02:01.079
+or 40 years so that's kind of amazing.
+
+00:02:01.080 --> 00:02:05.039
+How about we start taking some questions? So, just for
+
+00:02:05.040 --> 00:02:09.199
+timekeeping, we have until 20 of the current hours, which is
+
+00:02:09.200 --> 00:02:12.079
+8 minutes and 30 seconds to cover as many questions as
+
+00:02:12.080 --> 00:02:16.599
+possible. Now, if we might take the first one. So, Corwin,
+
+00:02:16.600 --> 00:02:20.359
+can you scroll down to the questions? Yes. I'll be reading
+
+00:02:20.360 --> 00:02:22.319
+you the questions just to make it a little easier for you,
+
+00:02:22.320 --> 00:02:23.791
+Daniel, to answer them.
+
+NOTE Q: I use org-roam for notes and find it very useful - have you considered it?
+
+00:02:23.792 --> 00:02:25.999
+I use Org-roam for notes and find it
+
+00:02:26.000 --> 00:02:30.639
+very useful. Have you considered it? Uh, yeah, that's
+
+00:02:30.640 --> 00:02:35.519
+actually where I started out for taking notes. Um, that,
+
+00:02:35.520 --> 00:02:38.719
+that I moved to Denote because I didn't use all of its
+
+00:02:38.720 --> 00:02:44.319
+features, um, for, Org Roam, I meant.
+
+00:02:44.320 --> 00:02:46.999
+Uh, I also didn't, didn't really like the dependency on an
+
+00:02:47.000 --> 00:02:51.919
+external database. Uh, it just like took a while for, um,
+
+00:02:51.920 --> 00:02:56.879
+stuff to index if I moved it between like, uh, using sync
+
+00:02:56.880 --> 00:03:03.679
+thing. laptop and my desktop. Yeah. Yeah, it's definitely
+
+00:03:03.680 --> 00:03:08.119
+something, I mean, I co-maintain Org Roam, so I'm fully aware
+
+00:03:08.120 --> 00:03:12.159
+of this problem with it. And yeah, SyncThing is not great to
+
+00:03:12.160 --> 00:03:16.639
+sync a database, a SQLite database that we use. And, I mean,
+
+00:03:16.640 --> 00:03:19.399
+whichever solution you use, whatever works for you is good.
+
+00:03:19.400 --> 00:03:21.919
+Orgrim was kind of thought in terms of scalability for
+
+00:03:21.920 --> 00:03:26.199
+people who had, you know, thousands of notes with thousands
+
+00:03:26.200 --> 00:03:28.919
+of links inside of them. so perhaps it's not adapted to your
+
+00:03:28.920 --> 00:03:31.039
+note-taking style right now, but perhaps it's something to
+
+00:03:31.040 --> 00:03:34.599
+keep in mind, you know, it's many tools and you use them when
+
+00:03:34.600 --> 00:03:39.599
+you need to. Colin, if we can switch the questions, I'm
+
+00:03:39.600 --> 00:03:40.879
+switching to the second one.
+
+NOTE Q: Do you use the Getting Things Done methodology as part of your Org workflow?
+
+00:03:40.880 --> 00:03:42.159
+Do you use the Getting Things
+
+00:03:42.160 --> 00:03:46.639
+Done methodology as part of your Org workflow? So there's an
+
+00:03:46.640 --> 00:03:50.039
+interesting thing about that. I started with Org first and
+
+00:03:50.040 --> 00:03:54.959
+then I heard about Getting Things Done, so I didn't exactly
+
+00:03:54.960 --> 00:04:01.679
+design my workflow with that in mind, but I sort of
+
+00:04:01.680 --> 00:04:06.439
+reinvented it, I would say, not really, but I do a lot of
+
+00:04:06.440 --> 00:04:09.439
+the similar things, but I don't have the different TODO
+
+00:04:09.440 --> 00:04:11.319
+states like...
+
+00:04:11.320 --> 00:04:17.279
+I don't know an example because I didn't really look into it
+
+00:04:17.280 --> 00:04:22.719
+that much, but it would be like NEXT isn't the next thing
+
+00:04:22.720 --> 00:04:28.879
+you're going to do. But I don't think I...
+
+00:04:28.880 --> 00:04:35.239
+where I just write what I need to do and then schedule it and
+
+00:04:35.240 --> 00:04:40.999
+then look at my agenda for the next thing. Yeah, I mean, part
+
+00:04:41.000 --> 00:04:45.959
+of the beauty of using Emacs, Org Mode or using a methodology
+
+00:04:45.960 --> 00:04:49.719
+like Getting Things Done is that I think you need to find room
+
+00:04:49.720 --> 00:04:53.519
+in the method or the tool for you to organically do what you
+
+00:04:53.520 --> 00:04:57.279
+want. And it's okay to not do everything in a Getting Things
+
+00:04:57.280 --> 00:05:00.599
+Done methodology. I know a lot of people take issue
+
+00:05:00.600 --> 00:05:04.719
+with the tickler file, where you're supposed to put stuff to
+
+00:05:04.720 --> 00:05:07.319
+review in the future. For instance, if you don't want
+
+00:05:07.320 --> 00:05:10.439
+to work on this particular topic right now in your life, you
+
+00:05:10.440 --> 00:05:14.679
+decide, oh, I'd like to revisit this topic maybe in six
+
+00:05:14.680 --> 00:05:17.399
+months. And then you have this tickler file, which has
+
+00:05:17.400 --> 00:05:21.799
+entries and folders for each month of the year. And when six
+
+00:05:21.800 --> 00:05:24.039
+months comes and you find yourself at the beginning of the
+
+00:05:24.040 --> 00:05:27.319
+next month, you open the file and you see, oh there's the task
+
+00:05:27.320 --> 00:05:30.319
+I left off for later. A lot of people don't like to do it this
+
+00:05:30.320 --> 00:05:34.279
+way, some people really like it, but part of the beauty of
+
+00:05:34.280 --> 00:05:38.119
+having tools which are very modular like Emacs and Org Mode
+
+00:05:38.120 --> 00:05:41.479
+allows you to have, well, you just adjust the method for
+
+00:05:41.480 --> 00:05:44.439
+something that works. And there's something to be garnered
+
+00:05:44.440 --> 00:05:48.759
+as well for applying these lessons to how you organize your
+
+00:05:48.760 --> 00:05:51.559
+life, not merely in front of a computer, but also how you
+
+00:05:51.560 --> 00:05:54.519
+manage your tasks elsewhere at school, iSchool or
+
+00:05:54.520 --> 00:05:58.519
+elsewhere.
+
+NOTE Q: org-fc and org-drill are emacs org mode centric flash card solutions, have you looked into them?
+
+00:05:58.520 --> 00:06:02.799
+All right, moving to the next question. Org-fc and org-drill
+
+00:06:02.800 --> 00:06:06.319
+are Emacs Org Mode-centric flashcard solutions. Have you
+
+00:06:06.320 --> 00:06:11.599
+looked into them? I think I looked into Org-Drill, but I
+
+00:06:11.600 --> 00:06:17.359
+wanted to use Anki because of... I wanted to use it on my
+
+00:06:17.360 --> 00:06:21.439
+phone, but then I realized I had to pay for the app, and then I
+
+00:06:21.440 --> 00:06:24.119
+didn't want to use it on my phone anymore.
+
+00:06:24.120 --> 00:06:31.799
+but it's just something that I used before without work mode
+
+00:06:31.800 --> 00:06:35.239
+for a little bit. And then I liked it,
+
+00:06:35.240 --> 00:06:42.919
+but yeah, it works pretty well with Org mode. So I didn't
+
+00:06:42.920 --> 00:06:47.799
+find a reason to switch to one of those because like I might be
+
+00:06:47.800 --> 00:06:53.559
+not at a computer one day and have to learn something. Yeah,
+
+00:06:53.560 --> 00:06:56.399
+that's something that you call premature optimization.
+
+00:06:56.400 --> 00:06:59.479
+And if you continue as a software engineer at university,
+
+00:06:59.480 --> 00:07:02.679
+you'll get to hear plenty of this. But yes, Anki is also a tool
+
+00:07:02.680 --> 00:07:06.399
+that I've used a whole lot in my learning journeys, be it
+
+00:07:06.400 --> 00:07:09.719
+about languages, be it about literature, be it about
+
+00:07:09.720 --> 00:07:15.519
+whatever really, and it's a very good tool and I recommend
+
+00:07:15.520 --> 00:07:17.799
+people to look into it, especially since they've released a
+
+00:07:17.800 --> 00:07:20.839
+new algorithm to manage learning a little differently than
+
+00:07:20.840 --> 00:07:23.719
+the old one. If you're familiar with SuperMemo, I really
+
+00:07:23.720 --> 00:07:25.992
+invite you to look into the advancement
+
+00:07:25.993 --> 00:07:27.505
+in Anki in recent years.
+
+NOTE Q: What do other students think about your approach - and what are they doing instead (if anything)? And your teachers - what do they think?
+
+00:07:27.506 --> 00:07:31.399
+Moving to another question, what do other students
+
+00:07:31.400 --> 00:07:33.919
+think about your approach and what are they doing instead,
+
+00:07:33.920 --> 00:07:39.359
+if anything? And your teachers, what do they think? So for
+
+00:07:39.360 --> 00:07:43.199
+other students they usually are just confused about what's
+
+00:07:43.200 --> 00:07:51.879
+going on when I show my computer because they know that I use
+
+00:07:51.880 --> 00:07:56.759
+Linux but they don't know what it is so they're just assuming
+
+00:07:56.760 --> 00:08:03.839
+everything on my computer is I'm either hacking or like
+
+00:08:03.840 --> 00:08:05.999
+doing some Linux thing and
+
+00:08:06.000 --> 00:08:09.919
+I don't really bother to explain it to them so that's kind
+
+00:08:09.920 --> 00:08:17.079
+But for I love it. See my see my prior videos. That's that's
+
+00:08:17.080 --> 00:08:19.559
+wonderful. Pardon me. Pardon me for breaking in, Daniel.
+
+00:08:19.560 --> 00:08:22.239
+But I just since I have, I want to say wonderful
+
+00:08:22.240 --> 00:08:28.559
+presentation. I love your spirit, your tone and great
+
+00:08:28.560 --> 00:08:29.319
+thought there.
+
+00:08:29.320 --> 00:08:31.399
+For my teachers, I think...
+
+00:08:31.400 --> 00:08:38.799
+because if I write an essay or something, I usually paste it
+
+00:08:38.800 --> 00:08:46.879
+in Google Docs. But recently, I got more confident, which is
+
+00:08:46.880 --> 00:08:53.879
+export to LaTeX, and I did that for my physics labs. My
+
+00:08:53.880 --> 00:08:56.439
+teacher was pretty satisfied with the results for the math
+
+00:08:56.440 --> 00:09:03.119
+formatting. So I think they don't really have a problem with
+
+00:09:03.120 --> 00:09:06.959
+it, where it's actually more convenient, maybe.
+
+00:09:06.960 --> 00:09:13.039
+That's really great to hear and if you continue at
+
+00:09:13.040 --> 00:09:16.519
+university, which I'm almost sure that you will, your
+
+00:09:16.520 --> 00:09:19.279
+professors, you'll be pretty much using the same tools as
+
+00:09:19.280 --> 00:09:23.359
+they are, so you'll find yourself in a like-minded crowd of
+
+00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:28.519
+people once you get to university. We are a little short on
+
+00:09:28.520 --> 00:09:30.719
+time because we need to move to the next talk in about one
+
+00:09:30.720 --> 00:09:35.999
+minute. There are still some questions and Daniel, I would
+
+00:09:36.000 --> 00:09:40.399
+invite you to stay and maybe answer them in a room so that we
+
+00:09:40.400 --> 00:09:43.399
+can gather as many of your answers as possible. But before we
+
+00:09:43.400 --> 00:09:45.239
+leave, I just want to give you the opportunity, if you have
+
+00:09:45.240 --> 00:09:46.919
+any last words, to share them with the crowd.
+
+00:09:46.920 --> 00:09:53.479
+Well, for the students who may be watching this, I hope that
+
+00:09:53.480 --> 00:09:57.319
+you give Emacs a try. And good luck if you decide to use
+
+00:09:57.320 --> 00:10:01.519
+something else because it's probably won't be as great.
+
+00:10:01.520 --> 00:10:07.399
+It's very good to be so young and to already be convinced that
+
+00:10:07.400 --> 00:10:09.879
+Emacs is the best thing. For some of us, it took us many
+
+00:10:09.880 --> 00:10:12.839
+decades to reach this conclusion, and I'm so happy
+
+00:10:12.840 --> 00:10:15.095
+to see young people. I used to be a teacher,
+
+00:10:15.096 --> 00:10:17.016
+by the way, so I used to teach people your age,
+
+00:10:17.017 --> 00:10:19.799
+but I'm so happy to see people your age
+
+00:10:19.800 --> 00:10:23.359
+interested in Emacs because it makes me hopeful that in the
+
+00:10:23.360 --> 00:10:26.799
+future we'll have people carrying the flame and standing on
+
+00:10:26.800 --> 00:10:30.039
+the shoulders of current people. So thank you so much,
+
+00:10:30.040 --> 00:10:32.917
+Daniel. We'll be seeing you soon. We wish you good luck with
+
+00:10:32.917 --> 00:10:35.999
+your studies. And for EmacsConf, we'll be moving to the next
+
+00:10:36.000 --> 00:10:39.624
+talk in five seconds. See you soon. And I want to reassure
+
+00:10:39.625 --> 00:10:44.332
+you, we'll post all the Q&A info when we do post this video.
+
+00:10:44.333 --> 00:10:47.839
+Yes. So Daniel, as I said,
+
+00:10:47.840 --> 00:10:49.239
+if you want to stick around a little more with
+
+00:10:49.240 --> 00:10:51.839
+Corwin to answer the questions, that's all fine.
+
+00:10:51.840 --> 00:10:53.599
+I'll be moving to the next room to get ready for the next
+
+00:10:53.600 --> 00:10:59.159
+talks. So thank you, Daniel. And I'll see you later.
+
+00:10:59.160 --> 00:11:06.199
+All right, the cops are gone. Wait, no, I'm just kidding. No,
+
+00:11:06.200 --> 00:11:10.042
+but if you'd like to walk through a few more of these
+
+00:11:10.043 --> 00:11:11.960
+questions, I'd be happy to record that. You're not
+
+00:11:12.000 --> 00:11:14.559
+obligated to do that. You could also, the pad's there. You
+
+00:11:14.560 --> 00:11:16.999
+could just type out your answers or whatever you prefer to
+
+00:11:17.000 --> 00:11:24.559
+do. I guess I can answer them still. Cool.
+
+00:11:24.560 --> 00:11:25.359
+So we're here.
+
+NOTE Q: What was your biggest source of frustration/friction/confusion when getting started with Emacs?
+
+00:11:25.360 --> 00:11:27.759
+What was your biggest source of frustration, friction,
+
+00:11:27.760 --> 00:11:32.319
+confusion when getting started?
+
+00:11:32.320 --> 00:11:38.239
+I honestly don't really remember. It
+
+00:11:38.240 --> 00:11:45.279
+somehow just clicked one day and I figured it out.
+
+00:11:45.280 --> 00:11:48.123
+All right, it takes us pretty naturally to the next one.
+
+NOTE Q: How did you come across Emacs? What got you into it?
+
+00:11:48.124 --> 00:11:54.079
+How did you come across Emacs? What got you into it? I could ask
+
+00:11:54.080 --> 00:11:58.280
+this question quite
+
+00:11:58.320 --> 00:12:05.479
+similar to how I stumbled into Linux, where I was... I heard
+
+00:12:05.480 --> 00:12:09.519
+of it before, but I saw screenshots of it
+
+00:12:09.520 --> 00:12:11.247
+or something on Reddit, and I was like, oh,
+
+00:12:11.248 --> 00:12:14.648
+that looks pretty cool, maybe I'll look into that.
+
+00:12:14.649 --> 00:12:16.599
+And then on YouTube, I would see videos
+
+00:12:16.600 --> 00:12:21.199
+about Doom Emacs, and then the Doomcasts video,
+
+00:12:21.200 --> 00:12:37.239
+I think that's what really got me into it.
+
+00:12:37.240 --> 00:12:42.279
+Okay, I did my best to capture that. So what's the situation
+
+00:12:42.280 --> 00:12:46.439
+with respect to the mobile use, if that's applicable? And
+
+00:12:46.440 --> 00:12:47.639
+Orgzly is,
+
+00:12:47.640 --> 00:12:52.359
+sorry, was it not Doomcast? Is it System Crafters?
+
+00:12:52.360 --> 00:12:58.199
+Sorry if I botched the note. Oh yeah, System Crafters was
+
+00:12:58.200 --> 00:13:01.679
+also one of the things I used for getting into Emacs from
+
+00:13:01.680 --> 00:13:08.079
+scratch. I'm sorry if my dog is barking.
+
+00:13:08.080 --> 00:13:16.799
+the, I'm not sure how to pronounce his name, but Protesilaos,
+
+00:13:16.800 --> 00:13:20.399
+I think that's how you say it. I always say Prot just to get me
+
+00:13:20.400 --> 00:13:23.039
+out of that problem for what it's worth. I'm not sure that I
+
+00:13:23.040 --> 00:13:26.719
+can say it properly either. Yeah, his videos were really
+
+00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:30.479
+great for getting started with each, each individual
+
+00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:31.240
+component of
+
+00:13:31.292 --> 00:13:34.124
+something like there's entire videos just
+
+00:13:34.125 --> 00:13:40.249
+about completion and about a tool called Embark. And like, I
+
+00:13:40.250 --> 00:13:41.318
+would just watch those videos
+
+00:13:41.319 --> 00:13:42.999
+while I was doing the dishes or something.
+
+00:13:43.000 --> 00:13:53.679
+and I would learn a lot from that.
+
+NOTE Q: What the situation with respect to "mobile" use (if ever that's applicable)? (yes, Orgzly...using that?)
+
+00:13:53.680 --> 00:13:59.120
+Awesome. I love it. What about the mobile...
+
+00:13:59.121 --> 00:14:04.960
+sorry, did I get that question out there already? Oh, no.
+
+00:14:04.961 --> 00:14:07.917
+I don't use Emacs or any Org Mode things on my
+
+00:14:07.918 --> 00:14:19.963
+phone. I have an iPhone, unfortunately.
+
+00:14:19.964 --> 00:14:24.120
+But for org files, I couldn't really get it to sync over
+
+00:14:24.121 --> 00:14:26.800
+without using a paid app.
+
+00:14:26.801 --> 00:14:28.040
+And I didn't really look into it
+
+00:14:28.041 --> 00:14:30.140
+that much because I have a computer with me
+
+00:14:30.141 --> 00:14:36.000
+almost all the time.
+
+00:14:36.001 --> 00:14:39.520
+Usually I carry around a notebook. And if I really need to
+
+00:14:39.521 --> 00:14:41.940
+know something or remember it for later,
+
+00:14:41.941 --> 00:14:52.660
+I just write it down.
+
+00:14:52.661 --> 00:15:01.759
+I've seen people get started with e-ink tablets, and they
+
+00:15:01.760 --> 00:15:07.959
+sync it with SyncThing because it's Android, but I don't use
+
+00:15:07.960 --> 00:15:21.919
+that, so I can't really attest to how good it is.
+
+NOTE Q: Has using emacs led to expanded interest in programming/computer science?
+
+00:15:21.920 --> 00:15:25.559
+So has using Emacs led you to an expanded interest in
+
+00:15:25.560 --> 00:15:28.519
+programming and computer science? Sorry if
+
+00:15:28.520 --> 00:15:31.781
+I could have got that out of the presentation.
+
+00:15:31.782 --> 00:15:33.999
+I think Emacs is what got me
+
+00:15:34.000 --> 00:15:37.840
+started with Lisp specifically.
+
+00:15:37.900 --> 00:15:40.380
+Otherwise, I probably would have not really looked into it
+
+00:15:40.381 --> 00:15:44.920
+that much, other than like  maybe dabbling in Scheme
+
+00:15:44.921 --> 00:15:50.180
+from the Structures and Interpretations of Computer
+
+00:15:50.181 --> 00:15:53.680
+Programs book. But I probably wouldn't have seen that if I
+
+00:15:53.681 --> 00:16:06.120
+hadn't discovered Emacs either so.
+
+00:16:06.121 --> 00:16:08.792
+I was already into programming
+
+00:16:08.793 --> 00:16:14.958
+before Emacs, and I had used VS Code for a little bit and then
+
+00:16:14.959 --> 00:16:22.917
+Vim. But I think I've done most of my programming
+
+00:16:22.918 --> 00:16:26.667
+inside of Emacs, in terms of lines of code written,
+
+00:16:26.668 --> 00:16:40.671
+projects made...
+
+NOTE Q: How does interaction with others work in technical terms?
+
+00:16:40.672 --> 00:16:44.519
+So maybe we'd jump from there, right, to, you mentioned
+
+00:16:44.520 --> 00:16:48.359
+exporting notes, essays, and so on, handing them on to other
+
+00:16:48.360 --> 00:16:53.319
+people. How does interaction with others work in technical
+
+00:16:53.320 --> 00:16:57.759
+terms? We mostly find workflows centered around like
+
+00:16:57.760 --> 00:17:00.479
+Microsoft products, and that makes sense to me. I have a day
+
+00:17:00.480 --> 00:17:03.719
+job where I have to work with a bunch of Microsoft products,
+
+00:17:03.720 --> 00:17:08.399
+and I know the workflows for that. So how do you manage your
+
+00:17:08.400 --> 00:17:14.519
+kind of Emacs-y you know, workflows, um, you know, in terms of
+
+00:17:14.520 --> 00:17:19.119
+sharing with people. Yeah. So for sharing with like my
+
+00:17:19.120 --> 00:17:22.719
+teachers or something, I would, we use like Google at our
+
+00:17:22.720 --> 00:17:25.759
+school. So for, I'm very fortunate that I don't have to deal
+
+00:17:25.760 --> 00:17:29.639
+with Microsoft other than with a very niche situations in
+
+00:17:29.640 --> 00:17:32.599
+which I can just use LibreOffice and then convert to Doc X or
+
+00:17:32.600 --> 00:17:35.719
+something. I heard that chef. That's, that's how all my
+
+00:17:35.720 --> 00:17:39.679
+vendors, uh, my vendors all roll their eyes when they were,
+
+00:17:39.680 --> 00:17:42.885
+oh, you're a Microsoft shop. Yep. Heard.
+
+00:17:42.886 --> 00:17:45.947
+Then they're all Google shops too, in education.
+
+00:17:45.948 --> 00:17:51.958
+Great point. For Google, I just... If my teachers wanted
+
+00:17:51.959 --> 00:17:53.125
+a Google Doc or something,
+
+00:17:53.126 --> 00:17:54.299
+I usually just copy paste
+
+00:17:54.300 --> 00:17:55.679
+whatever I wrote in Emacs
+
+00:17:55.680 --> 00:17:59.333
+and then still keep it, anyway, as a side thing
+
+00:17:59.334 --> 00:18:00.667
+because I don't really trust the cloud
+
+00:18:00.668 --> 00:18:02.875
+that much in terms of using
+
+00:18:02.876 --> 00:18:10.667
+it for later if I wanted to look at it. But for that, I don't
+
+00:18:10.668 --> 00:18:14.339
+really have too much problems. Hopefully, I will find a way
+
+00:18:14.340 --> 00:18:21.439
+to figure it out when I get into university.
+
+00:18:21.440 --> 00:18:26.679
+Awesome. Okay, well, I know we did it once already, but since
+
+00:18:26.680 --> 00:18:30.479
+this will be the end of the video, let me just open the floor
+
+00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:33.439
+one more time for parting thoughts.
+
+00:18:33.440 --> 00:18:41.719
+I'm not sure that I have any. I mean, you said it pretty well,
+
+00:18:41.720 --> 00:18:46.639
+right? I hope my peers see this. I hope they realize other
+
+00:18:46.640 --> 00:18:49.879
+tools are kind of inferior from a gets things done
+
+00:18:49.880 --> 00:18:54.639
+standpoint. Saw your talk. Heard that message in this Q&A.
+
+00:18:54.640 --> 00:18:58.159
+I think you did a great job. You don't have to say more, but
+
+00:18:58.160 --> 00:19:02.835
+just offering you the chance. Thank you.
+
+00:19:02.836 --> 00:19:03.916
+Well, thank you, Daniel,
+
+00:19:03.917 --> 00:19:07.439
+and thanks to everybody watching this video
+
+00:19:07.440 --> 00:19:09.838
+during the conference or after it,
+
+00:19:09.839 --> 00:19:12.159
+and appreciate and look forward
+
+00:19:12.160 --> 00:19:18.880
+to your talks in the future, Daniel. Thank you.
diff --git a/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-theme--my-journey-of-finding-and-creating-the-perfect-emacs-theme--metrowind--answers.vtt b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-theme--my-journey-of-finding-and-creating-the-perfect-emacs-theme--metrowind--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..bb183779
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-theme--my-journey-of-finding-and-creating-the-perfect-emacs-theme--metrowind--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,405 @@
+WEBVTT
+
+00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:09.279
+So just to be clear, right now we are currently streaming. So
+
+00:00:09.280 --> 00:00:12.679
+if you want to answer with your voice, you can as well. Oh, I'm
+
+00:00:12.680 --> 00:00:17.999
+sorry. Okay. Yeah. So I've got a question. I think there was a
+
+00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:20.279
+little bit of a misunderstanding with whether we were doing
+
+00:00:20.280 --> 00:00:25.079
+a Q&A on BBB or if we were doing it on Etherpad. So it's really
+
+00:00:25.080 --> 00:00:28.479
+up to you. Right now we've set up everything. So if you want to
+
+00:00:28.480 --> 00:00:32.119
+start answering questions with your voice, we might as
+
+00:00:32.120 --> 00:00:33.864
+well. So OK, so I can just do it live.
+
+NOTE Q: When you choose colors based on the same lightness, does it not hurt readability since the eye sees lightness most?
+
+00:00:33.865 --> 00:00:38.239
+So one question is, so I
+
+00:00:38.240 --> 00:00:41.839
+assume this is a question on the lab space, where all the
+
+00:00:41.840 --> 00:00:46.959
+colors are the same lightness. Does it hurt readability? So
+
+00:00:46.960 --> 00:00:53.679
+far, I find it to be OK. For the lab theme, I picked the colors
+
+00:00:53.680 --> 00:01:00.999
+manually. So like I could just fix a angle essentially so
+
+00:01:01.000 --> 00:01:11.759
+that no colors are similar, so I have good readability. But
+
+00:01:11.760 --> 00:01:18.959
+for a random theme in Monte Carlo, it's hard because like
+
+00:01:18.960 --> 00:01:24.639
+it's just random. But yeah, that's a really good point. And
+
+00:01:24.640 --> 00:01:28.959
+also that's one of the motivations I did the nothing, you
+
+00:01:28.960 --> 00:01:33.999
+know, the great scale theme to explore just using
+
+00:01:34.000 --> 00:01:39.759
+lightness. Yeah.
+
+00:01:39.760 --> 00:01:48.199
+So looking at other questions.
+
+00:01:48.200 --> 00:01:52.279
+Okay, great. Do you want to take the next question. So, okay.
+
+NOTE Q: For monte-carlo, are all the "random" colors picked using a colorwheel/hue rotation?
+
+00:01:52.280 --> 00:01:56.959
+Okay, let's go to the third first. Let's finish. Yes, for
+
+00:01:56.960 --> 00:01:59.999
+Monte Carlo are all the random colors that using a color
+
+00:02:00.000 --> 00:02:06.479
+wheel here. Yes. Well, so basically, what this theme does is
+
+00:02:06.480 --> 00:02:14.159
+it. It picks a saturation and lightness for me first. These
+
+00:02:14.160 --> 00:02:19.759
+are also random, but they are picked with some kind of range.
+
+00:02:19.760 --> 00:02:26.559
+And that's a parameter that I can play with, you know, the
+
+00:02:26.560 --> 00:02:28.959
+range of lightness and separation.
+
+00:02:28.960 --> 00:02:33.479
+Once those are fixed, the colors are picked by angles in the
+
+00:02:33.480 --> 00:02:38.399
+color wheel, or heel rotation, as you would put it. So yes,
+
+00:02:38.400 --> 00:02:43.719
+that's roughly the process.
+
+NOTE Q: One area I see emacs able to do themes that is "underused?" is changing the font
+
+00:02:43.720 --> 00:02:47.239
+OK, great. I think the second question is still in the
+
+00:02:47.240 --> 00:02:51.679
+process. Oh, well, maybe you could start fielding it. I
+
+00:02:51.680 --> 00:02:55.319
+think you've got already something to work on. I see one area
+
+00:02:55.320 --> 00:03:01.199
+I see Emacs able to do. under use is changing the font, font
+
+00:03:01.200 --> 00:03:09.759
+size, font type, model space based on various faces. Yeah,
+
+00:03:09.760 --> 00:03:13.439
+so to paraphrase the question, one thing that Emacs is
+
+00:03:13.440 --> 00:03:17.399
+definitely not doing a whole lot of right now is changing the
+
+00:03:17.400 --> 00:03:21.079
+font that is being used, be it the font size, the font family.
+
+00:03:21.080 --> 00:03:25.039
+Sometimes you see themes, especially old mode themes,
+
+00:03:25.040 --> 00:03:29.199
+fontify differently the headers of the documents versus
+
+00:03:29.200 --> 00:03:31.879
+the content, and usually you do have a little bit of a
+
+00:03:31.880 --> 00:03:34.719
+contrast that is being introduced. But is it something that
+
+00:03:34.720 --> 00:03:38.959
+you find value in, this type of contrast based on font? And to
+
+00:03:38.960 --> 00:03:45.159
+me, it's my personal preference to just use one font. I don't
+
+00:03:45.160 --> 00:03:51.479
+even change the font size a lot in org mode. It's just
+
+00:03:51.480 --> 00:03:55.319
+personal preference.
+
+00:03:55.320 --> 00:03:58.999
+I've seen scenes where once I applied, I opened the org doc
+
+00:03:59.000 --> 00:04:04.639
+and suddenly all the titles are like Serif or some fancy
+
+00:04:04.640 --> 00:04:12.759
+fonts. That works. And to me, again, it's a personal
+
+00:04:12.760 --> 00:04:16.919
+preference that I don't really like that, but I know a lot of
+
+00:04:16.920 --> 00:04:21.799
+people like that. So it's up to you, I guess. Yeah, I mean,
+
+00:04:21.800 --> 00:04:25.839
+this, as we've seen in your talk and as well as the previous
+
+00:04:25.840 --> 00:04:29.279
+one we had this morning, you know, themes are very personal
+
+00:04:29.280 --> 00:04:33.079
+and at the end, whatever you need to, you know, some people
+
+00:04:33.080 --> 00:04:35.799
+are going to need more contrast than others, some people are
+
+00:04:35.800 --> 00:04:37.999
+going to need a little more variety in the fonts that they
+
+00:04:38.000 --> 00:04:41.359
+use. Ultimately, it's up to you really what you want to use.
+
+00:04:41.360 --> 00:04:45.199
+The end point, the angle that one should be aiming for is to
+
+00:04:45.200 --> 00:04:49.039
+feel comfortable in what they're editing. And whether this
+
+00:04:49.040 --> 00:04:52.799
+comfort translates into a very barebone color theme like
+
+00:04:52.800 --> 00:04:56.319
+the one we saw this morning with very slight colors but still
+
+00:04:56.320 --> 00:04:59.079
+which has a lot of personality or perhaps something closer
+
+00:04:59.080 --> 00:05:04.279
+to yours which tends to use equal luminance or lightness for
+
+00:05:04.280 --> 00:05:07.879
+the different entries. Well, everyone needs to tune in and
+
+00:05:07.880 --> 00:05:13.959
+find whatever works best for them, I think. Yep. And also, I
+
+00:05:13.960 --> 00:05:18.479
+want to note, I actually have a personal rule. It's also in
+
+00:05:18.480 --> 00:05:24.479
+all my themes. It's that comments have to be italic. I just
+
+00:05:24.480 --> 00:05:31.999
+like the look of italic comments. So, I actually... So, if
+
+00:05:32.000 --> 00:05:37.799
+you... In one of the section in the video, I mentioned I have
+
+00:05:37.800 --> 00:05:41.959
+hooks. Maybe I didn't mention, but I have hooks when using
+
+00:05:41.960 --> 00:05:47.359
+the picking the random theme setup. One of the purpose of
+
+00:05:47.360 --> 00:05:52.359
+that hook is I can add italic to all the themes on the comment
+
+00:05:52.360 --> 00:05:58.999
+face. Which I don't think it works actually right now, but
+
+00:05:59.000 --> 00:06:02.679
+that's the intention. Yeah, but I think it answers the
+
+00:06:02.680 --> 00:06:05.879
+question we started on originally. Because changing the
+
+00:06:05.880 --> 00:06:11.559
+font, I mean, using the italic variant of the font, it's
+
+00:06:11.560 --> 00:06:14.119
+literally a different font. And so, being able to have this
+
+00:06:14.120 --> 00:06:17.479
+type of contrast is actually important for you. So, it's
+
+00:06:17.480 --> 00:06:20.839
+nice that you managed to find this particular bit of
+
+00:06:20.840 --> 00:06:25.519
+knowledge through experimentation. And also I want to add
+
+00:06:25.520 --> 00:06:30.719
+that if you pick a monospace font like I do, usually there's
+
+00:06:30.720 --> 00:06:37.439
+not a lot of... Creativity? No, that's not the word. It's a
+
+00:06:37.440 --> 00:06:45.639
+lot of personality in the regular font part. But people do
+
+00:06:45.640 --> 00:06:51.799
+put a lot of different things in the italic. So yeah, if you
+
+00:06:51.800 --> 00:06:55.999
+can find a way to utilize the italic face, you could see some
+
+00:06:56.000 --> 00:07:01.239
+interesting results. Yeah, definitely. Again, I think
+
+00:07:01.240 --> 00:07:03.719
+it's important to consider all the things you can play with
+
+00:07:03.720 --> 00:07:06.519
+in terms of contrast. Because at the end of the day, you know,
+
+00:07:06.520 --> 00:07:08.839
+some people are going to be more receptive to a change of font
+
+00:07:08.840 --> 00:07:11.639
+than change of color. You know, just considering the amount
+
+00:07:11.640 --> 00:07:14.439
+of people who are colorblind and who are using software like
+
+00:07:14.440 --> 00:07:19.279
+this. You know, sometimes your vision optimizes for
+
+00:07:19.280 --> 00:07:22.039
+particular kind of changes and some people are going to be
+
+00:07:22.040 --> 00:07:26.279
+more sensitive to a slanted eye than they would be to an eye
+
+00:07:26.280 --> 00:07:31.479
+that is red or an eye that is blue. So, But it's not for
+
+00:07:31.480 --> 00:07:31.999
+everyone.
+
+00:07:32.000 --> 00:07:37.519
+So I'm looking at the time and we have about eight minutes
+
+00:07:37.520 --> 00:07:38.839
+until we go into the next talk.
+
+00:07:38.840 --> 00:07:44.519
+To be frank, I don't think I've got any more questions on my
+
+00:07:44.520 --> 00:07:46.879
+end. I'm not sure if we've got any people on BBB who has joined
+
+00:07:46.880 --> 00:07:49.119
+us and would like to ask a question. Let me check on IRC
+
+00:07:49.120 --> 00:07:53.799
+quickly if we've got any questions coming our way. I don't
+
+00:07:53.800 --> 00:07:57.199
+see any. Do you see any on your end?
+
+00:07:57.200 --> 00:08:06.479
+Not really. Well, then I suggest we just leave it at that and
+
+00:08:06.480 --> 00:08:08.679
+enjoy a little break before the next chat. So, thank you so
+
+00:08:08.680 --> 00:08:11.559
+much Metrowind for coming to EmacsConf and talking about
+
+00:08:11.560 --> 00:08:14.399
+colors because, as you saw, many people are interested
+
+00:08:14.400 --> 00:08:17.199
+about them, so much that another person decided to have a
+
+00:08:17.200 --> 00:08:20.639
+chat about theme. We didn't plan for this, but it's nice to
+
+00:08:20.640 --> 00:08:23.959
+see. And, well, perhaps you could collaborate in the future
+
+00:08:23.960 --> 00:08:26.919
+and both find the mutual confidence that you need to push
+
+00:08:26.920 --> 00:08:29.799
+your stuff to Melpa. Because I did hear that you weren't
+
+00:08:29.800 --> 00:08:33.119
+feeling too confident about your random color theme
+
+00:08:33.120 --> 00:08:37.439
+package. But, you know, you've done the first step, which is
+
+00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:40.559
+talking about it and sharing it with all of us. And perhaps
+
+00:08:40.560 --> 00:08:42.759
+the next step is to actually clean up the code to your
+
+00:08:42.760 --> 00:08:47.959
+satisfaction and publish it eventually. Oh, I can see
+
+00:08:47.960 --> 00:08:53.460
+another question. Should we go to that? Sure.
+
+NOTE Q: Have you ever kept any of the random themes that were thrown up?
+
+00:08:53.461 --> 00:08:54.079
+Have you ever
+
+00:08:54.080 --> 00:08:59.719
+kept any of the random themes that were thrown up? So I assume
+
+00:08:59.720 --> 00:09:05.119
+this is for the Monte Carlo setup. The answer is no. The
+
+00:09:05.120 --> 00:09:09.999
+reason is, like I mentioned, I'm using the randomly picking
+
+00:09:10.000 --> 00:09:15.079
+a theme setup right now. And Monte Carlo is one of them. Now,
+
+00:09:15.080 --> 00:09:18.639
+when Emacs picks Monte Carlo by chance, I wouldn't know
+
+00:09:18.640 --> 00:09:23.239
+about it. So I wouldn't know this is my random theme. That's
+
+00:09:23.240 --> 00:09:28.839
+the reason I never kept any, like, good color schemes
+
+00:09:28.840 --> 00:09:34.959
+generated. So, no. Right, okay. Well, considering we don't
+
+00:09:34.960 --> 00:09:37.359
+have any further questions, what I suggest now is that we'll
+
+00:09:37.360 --> 00:09:40.239
+leave it at that. So, again, Metrowind, thank you so much.
+
+00:09:40.240 --> 00:09:43.079
+Thank you. And hopefully we'll hear more of your themes in
+
+00:09:43.080 --> 00:09:51.120
+the future. Cool. Thanks. All right. Bye bye. Bye bye.
diff --git a/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-transducers--transducers-finally-ergonomic-data-processing-for-emacs--colin-woodbury--answers.vtt b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-transducers--transducers-finally-ergonomic-data-processing-for-emacs--colin-woodbury--answers.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..375cad2a
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-transducers--transducers-finally-ergonomic-data-processing-for-emacs--colin-woodbury--answers.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,1032 @@
+WEBVTT chapters by sachac
+
+00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.559
+Hopefully the internet goes well. It's a nice Monday
+
+00:00:07.560 --> 00:00:31.999
+morning here in Tokyo.
+
+00:00:32.000 --> 00:00:37.879
+Are we connected all right?
+
+00:00:37.880 --> 00:00:40.879
+Okay, I seem to be struggling still with my audio. 1 2nd
+
+00:00:40.880 --> 00:00:44.519
+calling. Yeah, you were muted for a moment there. Okay,
+
+00:00:44.520 --> 00:00:49.959
+there we are. Okay. All right. Sorry about that. I got a mute
+
+00:00:49.960 --> 00:00:55.119
+out my, my back office chatter. That's kind of distracting
+
+00:00:55.120 --> 00:00:58.079
+me a little bit. All right. Sorry. I may have lost the plot a
+
+00:00:58.080 --> 00:01:04.919
+little bit. I think I did. However, find the 1st question.
+
+00:01:04.920 --> 00:01:09.919
+I got pretty distracted by conversation backstage. Yeah,
+
+NOTE Q: When I tried comparing transducers.el to cl-lib and dash (benchmark-compiled), I got the following results
+
+00:01:09.920 --> 00:01:15.879
+no problem. So the first question here, someone's asking,
+
+00:01:15.880 --> 00:01:22.279
+when they first tried comparing transducers.el, the cl-lib
+
+00:01:22.280 --> 00:01:27.959
+and Dash bookmark compiled, and they give some detailed
+
+00:01:27.960 --> 00:01:32.479
+results we're sharing on the stream. Um, they expected
+
+00:01:32.480 --> 00:01:36.679
+transducers to be slower than CL loop, but faster than CL lib
+
+00:01:36.680 --> 00:01:41.119
+or dash. However, this isn't the case, any idea why. And so
+
+00:01:41.120 --> 00:01:43.639
+I'll, I'll come back into their data to show there's they're
+
+00:01:43.640 --> 00:01:48.279
+showing, um, you know, there's not a lot of detail on the, on
+
+00:01:48.280 --> 00:01:52.199
+the, on the use case here. We could certainly click through
+
+00:01:52.200 --> 00:02:02.559
+it, do it.
+
+00:02:02.560 --> 00:02:06.999
+Oh, I should've waited to zoom until I find my spot here.
+
+00:02:07.000 --> 00:02:13.639
+There we are.
+
+00:02:13.640 --> 00:02:18.599
+All right, so there's our example.
+
+00:02:18.600 --> 00:02:23.759
+Looks like we are doing a simple map and a sum.
+
+00:02:23.760 --> 00:02:29.239
+Mm-hmm. Yeah, that's right. Yeah, question about
+
+00:02:29.240 --> 00:02:36.279
+performance. So a case like this, a simple, I just want to rip
+
+00:02:36.280 --> 00:02:40.279
+through a collection of numbers and sum them all. That's a
+
+00:02:40.280 --> 00:02:44.679
+case where basically loop is always going to win because
+
+00:02:44.680 --> 00:02:51.319
+loop is optimized. This is true in both Emacs Lisp and in
+
+00:02:51.320 --> 00:02:56.039
+Common Lisp. For a case like this where you're not really
+
+00:02:56.040 --> 00:03:02.399
+doing two nested of chained calls, like you don't have many
+
+00:03:02.400 --> 00:03:05.839
+sort of what I was compositional steps. If you're just
+
+00:03:05.840 --> 00:03:09.999
+ripping through a collection of numbers, loop is always
+
+00:03:10.000 --> 00:03:15.559
+going to win. Transducers kind of shines when you have to do
+
+00:03:15.560 --> 00:03:19.639
+things that loop can't in terms of expressing yourself. So
+
+00:03:19.640 --> 00:03:22.559
+there are lots of different transducers that you can chain
+
+00:03:22.560 --> 00:03:27.079
+together. And in that case, you're kind of prioritizing
+
+00:03:27.080 --> 00:03:33.039
+developer time and developer happiness because you're
+
+00:03:33.040 --> 00:03:36.399
+able to yourself more clearly, whereas sometimes those
+
+00:03:36.400 --> 00:03:40.679
+kind of algorithms can get very hairy if you're just using
+
+00:03:40.680 --> 00:03:45.399
+loop. Now that sounds like I'm moving the goalposts, and
+
+00:03:45.400 --> 00:03:48.639
+there's really no excuse for these things not being as
+
+00:03:48.640 --> 00:03:54.559
+performant as possible. In this specific case, my guess is
+
+00:03:54.560 --> 00:03:57.759
+that the transducers is slower because it has to do a whole
+
+00:03:57.760 --> 00:04:03.239
+bunch of like inner function calls in order to actually do
+
+00:04:03.240 --> 00:04:09.239
+the adding and the collecting. So there's a lot of stuff that
+
+00:04:09.240 --> 00:04:12.119
+just the raw loop doesn't have to do, which transducers
+
+00:04:12.120 --> 00:04:20.439
+does. And so in this case, that's why it would be slower.
+
+00:04:20.440 --> 00:04:29.079
+All right, makes sense.
+
+00:04:29.080 --> 00:04:36.239
+Um... I cannot comment against Dash. And also a reminder
+
+00:04:36.240 --> 00:04:40.159
+that transducers both in CL and in Emacs Lisp here doesn't
+
+00:04:40.160 --> 00:04:44.919
+attempt to do any, you know, fun, you know, inner rewriting
+
+00:04:44.920 --> 00:04:48.239
+or, you know, what's called an Haskell fusion. Like if you
+
+00:04:48.240 --> 00:04:51.359
+have two different map steps, like in a row, it's not gonna
+
+00:04:51.360 --> 00:04:55.159
+see that and somehow fuse them internally. It's a fairly, in
+
+00:04:55.160 --> 00:04:59.679
+that sense, the implementation is just as is.
+
+00:04:59.680 --> 00:05:04.159
+to make it you know as raw fast as possible. The idea being
+
+00:05:04.160 --> 00:05:12.839
+that ergonomics is more important up front. Yeah, that's
+
+00:05:12.840 --> 00:05:17.519
+kind of a whole fascinating sub-panel, right? My theme this
+
+00:05:17.520 --> 00:05:19.799
+conference has been, oh, all these different things we
+
+00:05:19.800 --> 00:05:24.039
+should try to get sub-panels going for and use that. Maybe
+
+00:05:24.040 --> 00:05:29.039
+fill in the dev track or even have a third track or whatever.
+
+00:05:29.040 --> 00:05:31.519
+I'm not that concerned about the logistics of squeezing
+
+00:05:31.520 --> 00:05:38.519
+into the schedule so much. But anyway, interesting, I mean,
+
+00:05:38.520 --> 00:05:40.839
+to say.
+
+NOTE Q: Do you know of any theoretical texts on transducers?
+
+00:05:40.840 --> 00:05:47.799
+Did we already speak to theoretical texts? No, right? No,
+
+00:05:47.800 --> 00:05:53.399
+let's continue. Okay, so another question from the group.
+
+00:05:53.400 --> 00:05:58.879
+Do you know of any theoretical texts on transducers? My
+
+00:05:58.880 --> 00:06:01.959
+readme, particularly of the Common Lisp implementation,
+
+00:06:01.960 --> 00:06:06.159
+is the theoretical text on transducers. Rich Hickey has
+
+00:06:06.160 --> 00:06:10.439
+some YouTube videos which also come close. I mean, he
+
+00:06:10.440 --> 00:06:14.799
+invented the things. But in terms of having a full
+
+00:06:14.800 --> 00:06:21.559
+explanation of everything, it's my readme and it's also
+
+00:06:21.560 --> 00:06:23.319
+the...
+
+00:06:23.320 --> 00:06:28.559
+The info manual of Guile Scheme, their documentation on
+
+00:06:28.560 --> 00:06:34.199
+Surfy 171 is what I used to learn transducers and to
+
+00:06:34.200 --> 00:06:38.399
+re-implement them in other LISPs. So if you just want like a
+
+00:06:38.400 --> 00:06:41.639
+document explaining them, MyReadMe is actually the
+
+00:06:41.640 --> 00:06:46.959
+clearest that I've found. Awesome. Okay, next question.
+
+00:06:46.960 --> 00:06:50.119
+And I'm sorry, you gave a name, you referred to somebody's
+
+00:06:50.120 --> 00:06:55.439
+videos. Rich Hickey, the inventor of Clojure. Rich Hickey,
+
+00:06:55.440 --> 00:07:00.399
+thank you. Hope I got the spelling right, and maybe somebody
+
+00:07:00.400 --> 00:07:04.719
+can catch that and fix it. If not, I'll reach on. Thank you.
+
+NOTE Q: Did you think about [compiler features, macros] viz your cl, fennel, elisp, porting of your transducers?
+
+00:07:04.720 --> 00:07:08.239
+Reach on to the next question. Waters (Lazy Series in
+
+00:07:08.240 --> 00:07:12.799
+Lisp, late 70s) said this should have been done as an
+
+00:07:12.800 --> 00:07:16.799
+additional compiler feature in compilers, but if not, must
+
+00:07:16.800 --> 00:07:21.439
+be a macro package. Do you think about that vis your CL,
+
+00:07:21.440 --> 00:07:27.519
+Fennel, Elisp, porting of transducers? I think that
+
+00:07:27.520 --> 00:07:28.519
+there's definitely
+
+00:07:28.520 --> 00:07:36.519
+some Galaxy Brain Lisp author out there is probably smart
+
+00:07:36.520 --> 00:07:40.599
+enough to turn a bunch of this stuff into macros. I believe
+
+00:07:40.600 --> 00:07:47.119
+that's how the common Lisp library series works. It sees
+
+00:07:47.120 --> 00:07:52.079
+that you were calling map or whatever, and it actually knows
+
+00:07:52.080 --> 00:07:56.639
+that that's a special macro key. in order to be fast. I did not
+
+00:07:56.640 --> 00:08:01.839
+do that. The implementation as I have it is very simple and
+
+00:08:01.840 --> 00:08:05.759
+simplicity shouldn't be underestimated.
+
+00:08:05.760 --> 00:08:13.559
+I love it. What a nice succinct answer. Even I can manage to
+
+00:08:13.560 --> 00:08:16.578
+type that out as I scroll us to the next question.
+
+NOTE Q: Does t-buffer-read provide a lazy stream that's linewise, or charwise, or do something else entirely?
+
+00:08:16.579 --> 00:08:24.079
+So, does t-buffer-read provide a lazy stream
+
+00:08:24.080 --> 00:08:28.359
+that's line-wise or character-wise or do something else
+
+00:08:28.360 --> 00:08:29.018
+entirely?
+
+00:08:29.019 --> 00:08:31.587
+Okay, there are two functions. I showed
+
+00:08:31.588 --> 00:08:35.073
+t-buffer-read. There's also one called t-file-read,
+
+00:08:35.074 --> 00:08:38.682
+which does that. You actually have the buffer open,
+
+00:08:38.683 --> 00:08:40.239
+it's much more clever.
+
+00:08:40.240 --> 00:08:45.999
+t-buffer-read, I believe, is simpler. As long as you have an
+
+00:08:46.000 --> 00:08:52.079
+Emacs list, what is called the current buffer active. I'm
+
+00:08:52.080 --> 00:08:56.679
+fairly sure you're able to just call next-line on it. I don't
+
+00:08:56.680 --> 00:08:59.479
+believe that I'm doing anything fancy there, looking for
+
+00:08:59.480 --> 00:09:03.999
+line ends. I believe I'm just grabbing the next line and then
+
+00:09:04.000 --> 00:09:09.423
+processing that line-wise. Very good.
+
+NOTE Q: Can the Elisp library be combined with the stream.el API or seq in general?
+
+00:09:09.424 --> 00:09:17.303
+Can the Elisp library be combined with the stream.el API
+
+00:09:17.304 --> 00:09:22.830
+or seq in general? I would say that these libraries
+
+00:09:22.831 --> 00:09:27.596
+are completely orthogonal. You saw that everything
+
+00:09:27.597 --> 00:09:29.279
+was prefixed by t-.
+
+00:09:29.280 --> 00:09:36.879
+Basically, transducer is its own zone. However, one thing
+
+00:09:36.880 --> 00:09:40.239
+that I do in the common lisp, which is theoretically
+
+00:09:40.240 --> 00:09:44.359
+possible for the Emacs Lisp as well, is kind of like little
+
+00:09:44.360 --> 00:09:48.919
+shim libraries. So I provide, at least for Common Lisp, for a
+
+00:09:48.920 --> 00:09:51.799
+number of, you know, popular sort of third-party
+
+00:09:51.800 --> 00:09:55.239
+collection types, I provide an ability to use them as
+
+00:09:55.240 --> 00:09:59.559
+sources. Maybe that's what you mean. Like
+
+00:09:59.560 --> 00:10:04.439
+the built-in containers for Emacs Lisp are already
+
+00:10:04.440 --> 00:10:06.519
+supported. So, you know, a vector hash table and so on.
+
+00:10:06.520 --> 00:10:13.719
+make sense so i think what i heard there is yeah go ahead
+
+00:10:13.720 --> 00:10:17.879
+please sorry in terms of mixing like you know like for
+
+00:10:17.880 --> 00:10:22.599
+instance you know like seq-map used in transducers
+
+00:10:22.600 --> 00:10:28.119
+we'll put it that way
+
+00:10:28.120 --> 00:10:31.879
+i was just gonna say i think it um it it sounds like you're
+
+00:10:31.880 --> 00:10:37.199
+saying Yeah, probably they are actually. We don't know yet
+
+00:10:37.200 --> 00:10:41.239
+about any places where they don't play nicely together. So
+
+00:10:41.240 --> 00:10:45.399
+quite possibly so. We can use sequence and transducers
+
+00:10:45.400 --> 00:10:49.959
+together, for example. As a source potentially, yeah. It's
+
+00:10:49.960 --> 00:10:54.159
+very easy because that just uses defgeneric. As long as you
+
+00:10:54.160 --> 00:10:57.719
+have a new, like if you have a new collection type, as long as
+
+00:10:57.720 --> 00:11:01.519
+you implement a def method for it somewhere, it'll just
+
+00:11:01.520 --> 00:11:12.159
+magically work with this library. That's the magic of...
+
+00:11:12.160 --> 00:11:18.439
+Yeah, as an Emacs user enjoying, you know, sort of the
+
+00:11:18.440 --> 00:11:21.959
+renaissance of new features it's had, or sorry, Emacs ERC
+
+00:11:21.960 --> 00:11:27.799
+user for chat. I've seen a lot of awesome stuff get done in the
+
+00:11:27.800 --> 00:11:32.119
+last couple of years with generic set. JP never was working
+
+00:11:32.120 --> 00:11:36.679
+on that. And like, that's just making me my eyes pop and go,
+
+00:11:36.680 --> 00:11:39.279
+wow, that does make a whole lot of things simpler, doesn't
+
+00:11:39.280 --> 00:11:44.279
+it? I think we're a lot of us running into generics and how
+
+00:11:44.280 --> 00:11:47.542
+that solves problems in Emacs.
+
+NOTE Q: How does one debug a t-comp expression? Can you single step and see intermediate results of the different statements you declare?
+
+00:11:47.543 --> 00:11:50.279
+How does one debug a t-comp
+
+00:11:50.280 --> 00:11:55.119
+expression? Can you talk in terms of single step,
+
+00:11:55.120 --> 00:11:58.479
+step-by-step, intermediate results of the different
+
+00:11:58.480 --> 00:12:08.759
+statements you declare? Yes. So in Common Lisp, this is
+
+00:12:08.760 --> 00:12:12.919
+and sly stickers and things like that. In Emacs Lisp, it's a
+
+00:12:12.920 --> 00:12:19.559
+little bit, shall we say, more difficult. For step
+
+00:12:19.560 --> 00:12:20.479
+debugging,
+
+00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:25.679
+so what comp does is comp internally, it should be a macro,
+
+00:12:25.680 --> 00:12:28.839
+but currently it's not, although there's work to improve
+
+00:12:28.840 --> 00:12:33.559
+that. It's doing an internal reduce and it's turning into
+
+00:12:33.560 --> 00:12:37.479
+one giant kind of composed lambda inside. So I don't know if
+
+00:12:37.480 --> 00:12:42.999
+step debugging would work there. However, we do have one
+
+00:12:43.000 --> 00:12:47.439
+function called log, which lets you inspect intermediate
+
+00:12:47.440 --> 00:12:50.759
+results. So you could technically use that to inject
+
+00:12:50.760 --> 00:12:54.279
+yourself somewhere into the transduction chain and, you
+
+00:12:54.280 --> 00:12:57.239
+know, halt or, you know, inspect the current value, et
+
+00:12:57.240 --> 00:13:01.119
+cetera. So you get a bunch of questions lined up. I think
+
+00:13:01.120 --> 00:13:04.199
+we're coming up, uh, within our last five minutes, uh,
+
+00:13:04.200 --> 00:13:07.919
+before some declared, uh, reset time that we have
+
+00:13:07.920 --> 00:13:11.919
+internally to just roll our closing credits, so to speak.
+
+00:13:11.920 --> 00:13:14.839
+Um, not that I would want to cut the question and answer
+
+00:13:14.840 --> 00:13:18.399
+short, but I might have to step away personally. But, um, as
+
+00:13:18.400 --> 00:13:21.519
+we discussed before, you can just kind of run the QA, however
+
+00:13:21.520 --> 00:13:24.879
+you want here. Um, or, or take questions offline if you'd
+
+00:13:24.880 --> 00:13:27.999
+like to answer them off the pad. And I just want to say one more
+
+00:13:28.000 --> 00:13:30.959
+time. Kitt said it managed later. Thanks again for your talk
+
+00:13:30.960 --> 00:13:35.759
+for dedicating the time to this live QA. And I think we can see
+
+00:13:35.760 --> 00:13:40.279
+by the many questions that are here. So I'll try to kind of
+
+00:13:40.280 --> 00:13:42.959
+flip us through as many of them as I can with our last couple of
+
+00:13:42.960 --> 00:13:48.399
+minutes, if that sounds good. Alternately, this might be a
+
+00:13:48.400 --> 00:13:52.079
+good time if you have kind of wrap it up, final thoughts, as
+
+00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:58.399
+Leo Sopanda saying. By all means, have at. Sure, thanks a
+
+00:13:58.400 --> 00:14:01.639
+lot. I'd say that if you are still curious, check out the
+
+00:14:01.640 --> 00:14:05.159
+read-me's because those have a lot of information,
+
+00:14:05.160 --> 00:14:09.519
+including a full description of the API and everything
+
+00:14:09.520 --> 00:14:10.719
+that's available.
+
+00:14:10.720 --> 00:14:16.599
+Otherwise, just give them a shot. Using these things is the
+
+00:14:16.600 --> 00:14:21.639
+best way to learn them, of course. I use them everywhere,
+
+00:14:21.640 --> 00:14:24.719
+basically, all across my Emacs list and all across my common
+
+00:14:24.720 --> 00:14:29.839
+list now. They get a lot of mileage. All right. You're
+
+00:14:29.840 --> 00:14:33.639
+speaking our language now. As Emacs users, all our ears poke
+
+00:14:33.640 --> 00:14:36.039
+up when you say, I'm getting a lot of mileage. I'm using it
+
+00:14:36.040 --> 00:14:39.879
+across everything. Every Emacs user has a story that
+
+00:14:39.880 --> 00:14:42.494
+harmonizes with that, I think.
+
+NOTE Q: Is there a path for transducers to enable elisp processing of otherwise overly large datasets as if just normal Emacs \"buffers\" (i.e. just pulling one thing at a time so essentially stream-like under the hood but buffer-like in interface), with none of the usual perf issues with a traditional buffer structure?
+
+00:14:42.495 --> 00:14:44.519
+So our next question, is
+
+00:14:44.520 --> 00:14:48.599
+there a path for transducers to enable Elisp processing or
+
+00:14:48.600 --> 00:14:53.999
+otherwise overly large data sets as if just normal Emacs
+
+00:14:54.000 --> 00:14:56.959
+buffers, i.e. just pulling one thing at a time. So
+
+00:14:56.960 --> 00:15:00.719
+essentially stream like under the hood, but buffer like an
+
+00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:03.519
+interface. I think that makes sense to me. with none of the
+
+00:15:03.520 --> 00:15:07.799
+usual performance issues, like as if, you know, the history
+
+00:15:07.800 --> 00:15:11.399
+with long files is what that brings to mind, I guess. Yes, so
+
+00:15:11.400 --> 00:15:15.799
+as you saw before, the withBufferRead sort of stream
+
+00:15:15.800 --> 00:15:19.879
+function does have to have the actual buffer in memory, and
+
+00:15:19.880 --> 00:15:22.679
+then you can go really fast. But there's another one with
+
+00:15:22.680 --> 00:15:26.839
+file read. Now, again, I haven't tried to optimize that yet.
+
+00:15:26.840 --> 00:15:30.119
+But in theory, it is able to read right from the underlying
+
+00:15:30.120 --> 00:15:32.839
+file without having to open it as a buffer first.
+
+00:15:32.840 --> 00:15:39.199
+Awesome. Ari, the performance issues mentioned, and that
+
+00:15:39.200 --> 00:15:43.479
+popped up recently in the list and forums, to what extent
+
+00:15:43.480 --> 00:15:46.959
+does tail call optimization and other mechanisms like
+
+00:15:46.960 --> 00:15:50.159
+inlining, garbage collection friendliness, and so on,
+
+00:15:50.160 --> 00:15:55.159
+could these alleviate issues, enable their use at little to
+
+00:15:55.160 --> 00:15:58.439
+no extra costs? I feel like we're leading the witness here,
+
+00:15:58.440 --> 00:16:01.279
+but I'm sure you see where we're going. Yeah, no problem. So
+
+00:16:01.280 --> 00:16:03.799
+in terms of tail optimization, that's already happening
+
+00:16:03.800 --> 00:16:09.199
+because the internal loop mechanism is using CL labels. And
+
+00:16:09.200 --> 00:16:12.199
+in Emacs Lisp, CL labels is just a macro that is like
+
+00:16:12.200 --> 00:16:16.079
+extremely tail recursive. So that's very, very fast. It's
+
+00:16:16.080 --> 00:16:19.039
+not tail recursive, but it's using like goto. So it's
+
+00:16:19.040 --> 00:16:22.519
+extremely, extremely fast, like the raw looping of it. So,
+
+00:16:22.520 --> 00:16:24.359
+okay, well then where does the slowness come from? It's
+
+00:16:24.360 --> 00:16:26.439
+probably coming from those lambdas and it's probably
+
+00:16:26.440 --> 00:16:32.399
+coming from, uh, like extra consing, extra allocation
+
+00:16:32.400 --> 00:16:35.999
+somewhere, which is, um, sort of what you were, what you're
+
+00:16:36.000 --> 00:16:38.519
+referring to with the GC friendliness. So perhaps there's
+
+00:16:38.520 --> 00:16:45.199
+some, um, um, yeah, some, like some fusion that I can do to
+
+00:16:45.200 --> 00:16:51.199
+speed it up. Yeah, that just sounds fascinating endlessly.
+
+NOTE Q: Is there an option to read a csv/json and produce an alist or plist instead of a hash table for an entry?
+
+00:16:51.200 --> 00:16:55.559
+Are there options to like read from a CSV, JSON, produce an
+
+00:16:55.560 --> 00:17:01.679
+alist or plist instead of hash table? Absolutely.
+
+00:17:01.680 --> 00:17:06.239
+Yes, I need to double check that, but we can read both CSV and
+
+00:17:06.240 --> 00:17:10.359
+JSON, and you should be able to just turn on the plist option.
+
+00:17:10.360 --> 00:17:14.159
+I will double check, but there's fairly free conversion
+
+00:17:14.160 --> 00:17:18.039
+between those three types because hash table is not always
+
+00:17:18.040 --> 00:17:22.039
+what you want. And actually, I suspect that slowness that we
+
+00:17:22.040 --> 00:17:24.559
+saw in the demo before was because it was allocating hash
+
+00:17:24.560 --> 00:17:29.239
+tables for every, like, all of the 50,000 lines. And had it
+
+00:17:29.240 --> 00:17:32.599
+been a plist, it would have been faster. Interesting, so
+
+00:17:32.600 --> 00:17:35.399
+maybe there's opportunities even if you end up with hash
+
+00:17:35.400 --> 00:17:38.799
+lists, but then they're shared strategically and you pay
+
+00:17:38.800 --> 00:17:42.039
+the cost of a little extra layer in there that buckets them
+
+00:17:42.040 --> 00:17:46.439
+together the way that we might group files by the first four
+
+00:17:46.440 --> 00:17:50.519
+characters in the file name once we've got a million files.
+
+NOTE Q: Is the common lisp version ready for 'production' use? Is it complete enough and the API stable enough?
+
+00:17:50.520 --> 00:17:54.479
+Anyway, is the Common Lisp version ready for production
+
+00:17:54.480 --> 00:17:59.959
+use? Do you want to comment on API stability? I use it all the
+
+00:17:59.960 --> 00:18:04.159
+time. I'm writing a game in Common Lisp right now, and I'm
+
+00:18:04.160 --> 00:18:08.559
+using transducers everywhere in there, and it doesn't even
+
+00:18:08.560 --> 00:18:11.119
+make a dent in the frame rate, and I'm using them
+
+00:18:11.120 --> 00:18:15.359
+extensively. Okay, well, I'll just read from chat. Thanks
+
+00:18:15.360 --> 00:18:17.476
+so much for the answers.
+
+NOTE Q: Do we need a pre-written \"t-\" version for every already existing reducing function like + or is there a function to construct them from already defined reducer 2-arg functions?
+
+00:18:17.477 --> 00:18:20.439
+Do we need a pre-written or t-minus
+
+00:18:20.440 --> 00:18:24.959
+version for every already existing reducing function,
+
+00:18:24.960 --> 00:18:30.239
+plus, as an example? Or is there a function that constructs,
+
+00:18:30.240 --> 00:18:33.559
+in my, I'm going to add the word, auto-visualifies them
+
+00:18:33.560 --> 00:18:37.319
+already, auto-defines or something, or just generically
+
+00:18:37.320 --> 00:18:42.239
+wraps function calls some way? already defined. This is
+
+00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:49.399
+basically fold. Some built-in functions like plus already
+
+00:18:49.400 --> 00:18:52.599
+function like reducers. It's a coincidence that they do
+
+00:18:52.600 --> 00:18:56.799
+that. But there's an example in the README. Max is one that
+
+00:18:56.800 --> 00:19:00.559
+does not act like that. For instance, maybe I could screen
+
+00:19:00.560 --> 00:19:06.479
+share later, but if you just type in plus one, If you call plus
+
+00:19:06.480 --> 00:19:10.519
+one in Emacs or Common Lisp, you get back one. It actually
+
+00:19:10.520 --> 00:19:15.119
+only needs one argument. If you only type plus, it actually
+
+00:19:15.120 --> 00:19:20.839
+gives you zero. Plus and multiple satisfy the API of
+
+00:19:20.840 --> 00:19:24.759
+reducers. But if you have one that doesn't, like the max
+
+00:19:24.760 --> 00:19:28.759
+function, and similarly, just type in plus as a function
+
+00:19:28.760 --> 00:19:32.359
+call, just plus with nothing else, and you'll see. No, as a
+
+00:19:32.360 --> 00:19:37.199
+function. zero will come out. This basically means it
+
+00:19:37.200 --> 00:19:43.159
+satisfies the reducer API. But a function like max does not.
+
+00:19:43.160 --> 00:19:48.399
+If you just type in max and then one, it won't work. Pardon me,
+
+00:19:48.400 --> 00:19:54.239
+it did. But if you type in max with nothing else, it wouldn't
+
+00:19:54.240 --> 00:19:55.239
+work.
+
+00:19:55.240 --> 00:19:58.599
+Hence, we have to wrap it in something like fold. I would say
+
+00:19:58.600 --> 00:20:01.919
+go look at the fold function. Right, which that I won't do.
+
+00:20:01.920 --> 00:20:04.839
+I'm not that well enough prepped. Darn it. Leo would have
+
+00:20:04.840 --> 00:20:08.399
+been here, but oh, well, you got me. Yeah, no problem. But
+
+00:20:08.400 --> 00:20:16.879
+fold is sort of the ultimate reducer function. Great. So is
+
+00:20:16.880 --> 00:20:26.319
+there, where was I? Here we go. We're way past this, right? So
+
+NOTE Q: Is the compelling argument for transducers is that it's a better abstraction?
+
+00:20:26.320 --> 00:20:34.279
+is the compiling argument for transducers that it's a
+
+00:20:34.280 --> 00:20:38.879
+better abstraction? It seems like there are concerns,
+
+00:20:38.880 --> 00:20:42.399
+objections, while problematically valid focused on
+
+00:20:42.400 --> 00:20:45.679
+implementation. Can this abstraction allow for advances
+
+00:20:45.680 --> 00:20:50.559
+in implementation? Yes, what I've basically done is mostly
+
+00:20:50.560 --> 00:20:55.999
+followed the pattern of usage that exists in Clojure and in
+
+00:20:56.000 --> 00:21:01.159
+Scheme's SERP 171. In theory, the service level API is the
+
+00:21:01.160 --> 00:21:04.999
+same no matter where you're using this, and that's the idea.
+
+00:21:05.000 --> 00:21:08.039
+If you learn them in one list, you should be able to use them
+
+00:21:08.040 --> 00:21:12.879
+everywhere. Then what it's actually doing under the hood is
+
+00:21:12.880 --> 00:21:18.359
+free for us to change around. My implementations are mostly
+
+00:21:18.360 --> 00:21:23.679
+based on the scheme with a few alterations here and there.
+
+00:21:23.680 --> 00:21:27.079
+And in the Common Lisp case, like adding some Common Lisp
+
+00:21:27.080 --> 00:21:27.959
+isms
+
+00:21:27.960 --> 00:21:34.759
+to improve usage like UX a little bit. But overall, we are
+
+00:21:34.760 --> 00:21:38.959
+free to do whatever we want internally to speed up
+
+00:21:38.960 --> 00:21:42.439
+performance. I just haven't done that work. Awesome.
+
+00:21:42.440 --> 00:21:47.239
+Awesome. So here's where I have to, where we're getting the
+
+00:21:47.240 --> 00:21:50.079
+hook. We've just been pulled off the stream. The viewers
+
+00:21:50.080 --> 00:21:54.079
+just saw the crawl by as it sent us over to the other pad where I
+
+00:21:54.080 --> 00:21:57.919
+get to jump on and get involved with that now. But I can't
+
+00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:00.359
+thank you enough, Colin. Would you like me to stop the
+
+00:22:00.360 --> 00:22:03.799
+recording here? Any other comments you'd like to make? Uh,
+
+00:22:03.800 --> 00:22:06.439
+yeah, sure. Like, I mean, I'll stick around for any more live
+
+00:22:06.440 --> 00:22:10.639
+questions. I'm looking at both IRC and, and, um, uh, big blue
+
+00:22:10.640 --> 00:22:13.239
+button here. So if people have more questions, I'll hang
+
+00:22:13.240 --> 00:22:15.959
+around for a bit. I'm going to leave the channel open. I see
+
+00:22:15.960 --> 00:22:17.839
+you do have a few people in here, so I'm just going to go ahead
+
+00:22:17.840 --> 00:22:20.839
+and leave the recording. We can always trim it. Um, trim it
+
+00:22:20.840 --> 00:22:24.279
+up. If you, uh, let us know, Hey, the last 10 minutes weren't
+
+00:22:24.280 --> 00:22:26.999
+anything, you know, or whatever. No, no pressure, no
+
+00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:29.839
+worries, no mistakes. Thank you. Really appreciate you.
+
+00:22:29.840 --> 00:22:31.959
+Yep. Thanks a lot.
+
+NOTE Q: Question about how the transducers video was made? Did you use Reveal.js? Do you have a pointer to the html hosted presentation? How did you generate the content for Reveal?
+
+00:22:31.960 --> 00:22:48.399
+OK, does anyone else have some questions? I see Mohsen in the
+
+00:22:48.400 --> 00:22:52.839
+BigBlueButton chat is asking how I made the video. So the
+
+00:22:52.840 --> 00:22:59.079
+presentation itself was done with RevealJS from Org Mode.
+
+00:22:59.080 --> 00:23:03.639
+So as you saw, I had a raw Org Mode buffer, which was
+
+00:23:03.640 --> 00:23:09.319
+which was the presentation itself, which I then just
+
+00:23:09.320 --> 00:23:11.759
+exported with a few certain settings, a few
+
+00:23:11.760 --> 00:23:15.919
+customizations. And then for screen recording, I used OBS,
+
+00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:19.719
+which worked flawlessly on Arch Linux. I used Sway,
+
+00:23:19.720 --> 00:23:23.159
+Wayland, and all of that. So all of that just worked, which
+
+00:23:23.160 --> 00:23:27.999
+was very impressive. Where do the HTML host the
+
+00:23:28.000 --> 00:23:51.959
+presentation? I don't have that presentation hosted
+
+00:23:51.960 --> 00:23:52.599
+anywhere.
+
+00:23:52.600 --> 00:23:59.119
+I'll look at the.
+
+00:23:59.120 --> 00:24:00.079
+I don't see that.
+
+00:24:00.080 --> 00:24:08.159
+Here it is. So we've got the file here as well.
+
+00:24:08.160 --> 00:24:10.999
+Looks like that's it for questions, basically.
+
+00:24:11.000 --> 00:24:14.919
+Yep, and it looks like everyone's moved on for now. Let's
+
+00:24:14.920 --> 00:24:20.159
+see. I mean, it would be so this is answering lounge 81 on IRC.
+
+NOTE Q: From your investigations and tests so far, do you think there would be the necessity of transducers to eventually go down into the C level code for things like using them to solve "infinitely-big" buffer-like interfaces and such?
+
+00:24:20.160 --> 00:24:24.599
+Yeah, like, if we really wanted to go that hardcore, maybe
+
+00:24:24.600 --> 00:24:29.439
+there's some like C level stuff that we could
+
+00:24:29.440 --> 00:24:36.119
+you know, significant demand for such a thing. You know, so
+
+00:24:36.120 --> 00:24:39.239
+far there hasn't been such demand, but maybe there will be in
+
+00:24:39.240 --> 00:24:42.519
+the future. Yeah, perhaps there's some custom stuff we
+
+00:24:42.520 --> 00:24:43.039
+could do.
+
+00:24:43.040 --> 00:24:48.599
+And otherwise, magic one.
+
+00:24:48.600 --> 00:25:00.599
+Well, it looks like some people are quite happy with this.
+
+00:25:00.600 --> 00:25:14.959
+All right. That's about what I've seen. So why don't we end it
+
+00:25:14.960 --> 00:25:19.839
+here? I think I can control the recording from my end. If I
+
+00:25:19.840 --> 00:25:23.800
+pause it, will that work? All right. Thank you, everyone.