path: root/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-hyperdrive--new-in-hyperdriveel-quick-install-peer-graph-transclusion--joseph-turner--answers.vtt

WEBVTT captioned by sachac

NOTE New version of hyperdrive.el

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One thing I wanted to mention was that

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as with last year, I just released a new version of

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hyperdrive.el and it depends on the latest release of

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transient.el and so if you are going to install this

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package, make sure that you restart your Emacs after you

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install it, if you aren't already up to date with transient,

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which was released yesterday. Otherwise, since it, this

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latest version of transient.el updates the transient

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prefix EIEIO class, and it won't work unless you restart

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Emacs. Okay, well, good to know. I think that's a small price

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to pay to be on a bleedingest of bleeding edges. All right, I

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see there's a question here. Let me see if I can read it. Yeah,

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sure. Do you want me to field it to you or do you want to read it?

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Oh, sure. Go ahead. I'd love to hear you read it. Sure.

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Thank you. So first question. Hi there.

NOTE Q: Network effects are tricky - do you know of any public shares people can join to try this tool out properly?

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Thank you for the talk.

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I enjoyed watching it. I tried this tool last year and it

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seemed to work well, but I don't know anyone who actually

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uses it. Network effects are tricky. Do you know of any

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public shares people can join to try to try this tool out

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properly? Thank you. Network effects are indeed tricky.

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Yeah. That's kind of part of the purpose of the peer graph is

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to make it easier to discover peers in a way that's more, uh,

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more reliable and consistent than just somebody puts a

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public key on Reddit and then it's lost unless somebody

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finds it. Um, but the, the public keys that I know of are,

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there's the public key for the Ushin hyperdrive, which is

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basically just the same content that's on the website

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mirrored to a hyperdrive. Um, and then there are a few other

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ones. There's like, uh, hypha.coop has some WebZine

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content accessible via HyperDrive and also via IPFS. And

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then mauvesignweaver has a blog that's also available on

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Hyper. So that's blog.mauve.moe .

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But besides that, that's kind of the purpose of this

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peer graph thing is to make it easier to discover other

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peers. Yeah, to make it also very visual in a way, because,

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you know, I personally, it's funny because it reminded me of

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talks that I did in the past about the trust system for PGP

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keychains, because at the end of the day, you know, this

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trust system, whether you trust someone absolutely or

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relatively, the blocking system, it feels very related.

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Any kind of a chain of trust like this, feels very

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reminiscent, obviously, but it felt very nice that for you,

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you had a dynamic display of this web of trust. Whereas for

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me, I had to make fancy diagram in ticks, in latex, just to

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make sure that people understood what was actually going

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on. Yeah, one thing I want to point out is just the difference

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in utility for something like the PGP web of trust versus

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this kind of network of peers is, if I understand right, the

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main purpose of web of trust is to identify that a certain

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public key is actually created by the person that they claim

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to be. So you have a way of identifying that a key actually

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matches like a government identity. Whereas this kind of

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network of peers has nothing to do with authenticating a key

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or associating a key with an identity, like a government

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identity. The purpose is exclusively just to get more peers

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to be able to discover more peers who have things that are

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worth reading.

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Yeah, it's a different take on a concept, but even though the

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concept might be the same, I find there's a wealth of things

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that can be done thanks to this, because as you said, you

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trust someone to send you a file that is trustworthy. Well,

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with PGP, it's mostly about communication, but about file

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sharing, it just opens up completely new avenues. Yeah. Do

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you have anything else to add? And about that, I think one of

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the barriers to the PGP web of trust is that it required

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getting together to have key parties to meet people and

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verify identities. Whereas with this kind of thing,

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there's no need to do that because so long as your content is

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interesting, it doesn't matter that you're not who you

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claim to be or that you don't even claim to be anybody. Yeah, I

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mean, again, as you mentioned, it's not about identifying

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people, it's just about identifying value, in a way, in the

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content that people share. It has nothing to do with

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verifying their actual identity. But again, it's the same

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technology, it's the same understanding, but for

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different applications, which is lovely because

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programming is fractals all over. The same problems repeat

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themselves and the same solutions show up for widely

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different scenarios, which is always good. Yeah. Anything

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else? One more thing. Yeah. One more thing is that I wanted to

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give some kudos to, um, some of the other projects that

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inspired the pure graph work. One of them is Adam Porter's or

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graph view, um, which is a, um, a tool for visualizing

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different nodes in an org file and how they link to one

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another. Um, he did. the pioneering work to figure out how to

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render interactive graphs with GraphViz. And so we worked

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together on it and kind of hacked down the last parts that

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weren't working correctly. And so this is inspired a lot.

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The user interface is inspired a lot by Adam's work. And then

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also the idea of having people that you mark as blockers and

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block is inspired by another project called TrustNet by

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Alex Cobleigh. I can type in the link there. Alex, how do you

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spell it? Cobleigh? Yeah, I'll type it in here. Thank you. And I

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think the link is https://cblgh.org/trustnet. I think that is it.

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I'm not totally sure. But yeah. Okay, well, that's very good.

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and thank you for giving credits to the inspiration, because

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again, nothing is done without context, and it's always nice

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in the free software world to acknowledge people who have

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influenced us, because it's very nice when people start

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contributing, maintaining software, publishing stuff

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that they actually start collaborating with people who've

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inspired them, which is a nice way to climb over the shoulders

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of giants, which this community likes so much. All right,

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moving on to the next question. We are, we have about seven

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more minutes for questions, so we're still good.

NOTE Q: blocklist or whitelist so I can make them containing useful information for only me while also being useful with in a public sense

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Second question, one use case for this sharing and building upon

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second brain, sorry, one use case for this is sharing and

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building upon second brains, i.e. Zettelkasten, that's

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denote or what I'm actually doing, but a blocker for me

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wanting to make one public is wanting to use a block list or

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whitelist so that I can make them... Cautioning?

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Quarantining? Containing. Yes, definitely containing.

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Why did I go for quarantine rather than containing? I guess

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my brain went to a dark place from the 2020s. So I can make

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containing useful information for only me while also being

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useful in a public sense. Yes, I think your question is about

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how to keep some of the content of your Zettelkasten private

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and only have certain parts of it be public. If your desire is

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to only share certain files in your Zettelkasten, then you

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can use the hyperdrive mirror command that we demonstrated

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in the Emacs 2023 talk. In short,

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It lets you specify either a regular expression that

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matches only some of the files that'll get uploaded from a

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directory of files on your machine. And only the files that

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match that regex will be put into the hyperdrive and shared

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with the world. But it doesn't have to be a regex. It could be a

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lambda. So it could match based on file size or modification

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time or really whatever you like. So I hope that answers your

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question. Great. And I personally, as someone who loves

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tinkering with my Elisp, I particularly like the ability to

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specify things with a lambda because it just opens up the

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ceiling of the possibilities with interactions between

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different parts of software. And, you know, as I have worked

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significantly in Org Roam, I could definitely see

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interactions with lambdas here to make sure that we can send

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and share files based on the filter list that is

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incrementally added to thanks to those lambdas. So thanks

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for this. One more thing I want to add about that is that the,

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that same question of being able to upload only certain

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files while leaving others to be private was something

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that was inspired by Karl Voit. I had an email thread with

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him in which he talked about how he uses his file tags project

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to organize his files. And he'll put a public tag on the files

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in his org database that he wants to have be published to his

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website. And so you could very easily just set a regular

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expression matches that public tag and then all of the other

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files would be not shared. Yeah, and, oh, sorry, I was, I

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misclicked, I was talking to production for a second. First

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time it happens today, so I think this is a testament to the

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level of tightness. But yeah, as you were saying, whatever

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heuristics you want is actually a good thing. I think people

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are a little antsy because they tend to brain dump into their

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Org Roam, Zettelkasten, Denote, and they

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really don't want some of their personal notes being out

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there. And well, if you are worried about this, I think

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learning some Elisp and implementing some Lambda function

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that allows you to filter with intention might be the best

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solution for you. So I hope we've covered the question as

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well as we could have. Next question is more about an idea

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about trying hyperdrive to distribute the Worg. Does that

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make sense to you? Yeah, I mean, you could distribute

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whatever you wanted. I think that'd be a great idea. Okay,

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great. Moving to the next question, and we have about three

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minutes, so I think we'll cover the last two questions and

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we'll move on to the next talk after that.

NOTE Q: Could you comment on the "visualization" thing, (org visualization), and your experience with this type of content in buffers and the various possibilities (svg, etc.)?

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Could you comment on the visualization thing,

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Org visualization, and your

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experience with this type of content in buffers and the

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various possibilities, SVG, et cetera?

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Sure. So one thing that we worked on was I added a patch that

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was merged as part of Emacs 30, which fixes the way that image

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maps scale when images are scaled. So as an Emacs 30, if you

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zoom in on an image or shrink an image or rotate an image, now

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the image map, which is the overlay, so it's not actually an

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overlay, but it's, so to speak, it's an overlay that allows

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the images to be clickable based on, you know, where the

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actual visual display is. You can also click on it or hit help

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echo. And as of Emacs 30, now that scales with the image

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itself.

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The code to make that work on previous versions of Emacs, you

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can see the advice that we added in hyperdrive-sbb-view, that

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file in hyperdrive.el, if you're curious to see how you

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could polyfill that code, so to speak, to make it work on

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previous versions of Emacs before Emacs 30. But it works

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great. The way that this works is we generate a GraphViz

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string that will be sent to GraphViz to render an SVG and also

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render a CMAPX string. We pipe those back into Emacs and then

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we generate the image map from the CMAPX file and then we put

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that image map with the SVG, and we render it in a buffer.

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Works pretty well. You can check out the code to see exactly

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how it works. OK, great. Well, sadly, I think we are a little

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short on time to cover the last two questions. So Joseph, if

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you want to take a little bit of time maybe to answer the

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questions in the BBB, you can just do this, even though the

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stream will be moving to the next talk. But I'll use the

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opportunity to thank you both for the talk and for your

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answers, because they were very insightful. And thank you

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so much for taking the time to be with us today. Thank you,

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Leo. Enjoy the rest of the conference. Any last words in

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about 15 seconds? Thank you. I'm grateful for your taking

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all this time to make this conference possible. Well, you

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know, the conference would be nothing without the speakers

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coming and chatting, so you are the ones to thank. I mean, we

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like the thanking, obviously, but it's mostly you doing the

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work. All right. Thank you, Joseph. We'll see you later.

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Bye-bye.