path: root/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-blee--about-blee-towards-an-integrated-emacs-environment-for-enveloping-our-own-autonomy-directed-digital-ecosystem--mohsen-banan--answers.vtt

WEBVTT

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Thank you for the talk. I mean, it was a fairly long one and we

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had two very distinct parts, one which dealt with a

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philosophy of Libre-Halaal software and then the application,

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obviously, of Bisos. So thank you so much for the

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presentation. Before we get started with the question, and

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for the record, we have about 14 minutes of question time, is

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there anything that you'd like to add on top of your

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presentation, something that perhaps would not have fit in

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the actual presentation format? Sure, but prior to that,

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félicitations à tous les Français pour le rouvrir de

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Notre-Dame. Thank you. I'll say thank you because I'm a

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Francophone and I'm also French, but OK.

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Yeah, so a few things have come up in various other talks,

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that kind of EmacsConf 2024 talks, that kind of dovetail

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with what I was saying. One idea was Peter Prevos's

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observation of working with Emacs versus working on Emacs.

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And I'm all for that. So the idea of BLEE is that

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Others can package things, and we are seeing this in the form

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of redistributions. There is Doom, there is Space Max, and

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we are seeing the evolution of Emacs into layers. So there is

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the core Emacs, and there are layers on top of it. And Peter

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also mentioned about too much choice, this notion of

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Not always too much choice is the right thing to have. And

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packaging Emacs with a layer on top of Debian gives you a

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platform and an environment where the choices are a lot

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less. And that is not necessarily a bad thing.

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So that was one idea. The other idea or the other theme

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throughout the various talks that we saw was this concept of

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mixing org mode with programming languages and What Babel

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has done is two things. One is it has successfully

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integrated org mode with all kinds of languages. And that

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has happened in the context of literate programming. Um, so

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a talk coming after mine is literate programming for the

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21st century, mixing org mode with program languages. And

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what I am saying is that there is an alternative and that's

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great, but we should also, uh, consider a traditional

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programming mixed with org mode and, um, Polymode is key to

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that. So those were some of the key concepts that I saw a

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resonance with as the conference went forward. Yeah, and I

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think, if my memory serves me right, we have another talk

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about hyperbole this year, right after this Q&A session.

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And hyperbole, it's not Org Mode, but I'm not sure if you're

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familiar with it, Mohsen, you might have seen it from

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various talks last year, but it also tends to have a similar

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stance than you, with the fact that text should be embedded

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in programming languages rather than having Org Mode

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implement, I mean, integrate other languages. And I found

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it funny that we have your talk and this talk which are about

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the other direction, which I find very resonating as well.

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Right, right, right. So in terms of other things that did not

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fit into my talk is that the several concepts that I

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introduced, namely

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dynamic blocks everywhere and COMEEGA.

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I'd be happy to expand on those by sharing your screen in due

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course, whatever is appropriate. Sure, considering the

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time that we have, we only have about 8 minutes 30 and we

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already have about four, five questions actually. I

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suggest we perhaps leave the screen sharing until later if

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people are interested. I mean this Q&A can last as long as you

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want. That makes perfect sense. OK, cool. So how about we

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focus on the question now and starting with the first one.

NOTE Q: I'm from Brazil, which edition would you recommend?

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You mentioned that there are two editions, one named at

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Westerners and one for worldwide readers. I'm from Brazil.

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Which edition would you recommend? It's a Western country,

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but you didn't make the distinction exclusive for the

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second edition. So I thought it would be better to ask.

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Right. So definitely, I would say for everybody who is on

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this conference, the international edition is the right

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choice. In this book, I take some aggressive stance against

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intellectual property and I link that specifically to the

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American culture. So there are pieces in the book where the

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typical American audience may be offended. And if your skin

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is thick enough to deal with what I consider reasonable

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criticism, then the International Edition is definitely

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the better choice. Right. So yeah, I believe you also

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mentioned it. Pretty much exactly the same thing in your

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talk. So if you need to review, just watch the talk. And I

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think Mohsen also provides extra information about this.

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Moving on to the second question. Thank you for this talk.

NOTE Q: Thank you for this talk! How does your perspective interface with works such as Yanis Varoufakis' Technofeudalism?

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How does your perspective interface with work such as Yanis

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Varoufakis' Technofeudalism?

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I haven't read much of that. I think there is a whole lot of

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global growth and collective understanding towards this

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notion that the direction we are headed in And by that, I mean

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American digital ecosystems

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are dangerous and that we should revisit

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the entirety of the model and strategy.

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If the person who asked the question has any additional

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information, I'll be happy to hear it. Sure. We'll see if the

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person actually comes back to this. All right. In the

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meantime, moving on to the next question.

NOTE Q: To what extent do you agree that the introduction of proprietary systems in education creates an environment for exploitation while at the same time diluting the learning value of the curriculum?

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To what extent do

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you agree that the introduction of proprietary systems in

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education creates an environment for exploitation whilst

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at the same time diluting the learning value of the

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curriculum? My computing education at school amounted to

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learning how to use the Microsoft Office suite, i.e. the

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opposite of lasting open knowledge. Yeah, that's right on

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the mark. That's right on the mark. So the idea is that

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teaching and learning should be unrestricted. In the

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Muslim tradition and in Iranian tradition, we say that

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passing along the learning is the tax on having learned. So

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absolutely. I think it makes very little sense for the

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proprietary Microsoft software to be used as part of

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education. So the question is right on the mark. Okay,

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great. Let me just take a note of this. All right, moving on to

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the next question.

NOTE Q: As a specific example of how "ownership is not clean" ...

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As a specific example of how ownership is

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not something clean, look at the Star Trek Picard series.

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They continuously asked Patrick Stewart to come to do

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another Star Trek series, but he couldn't because Star Trek

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changed from what it used to be, at least until they came up

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with a series that honored what Star Trek used to be. Does

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this intersect? Let me read this for a moment.

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Yeah, I am not sure I fully get the point, but. Let me make a

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point about my criticisms of the false movement

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in the presentation and in the book. The idea is that we have

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jumped on the false movement and recognize it as an

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alternative But we haven't looked deeply enough to see if

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our own philosophy and movement have problems. The

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problems that I note is that The first movement does not

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recognize clearly and explicitly that the entirety of the

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intellectual property rights regime is flawed. The second

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piece is that it's only now that we are seeing the FOSS

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movement is broader than the Western world. The third

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problem is that the labels of free software and open source

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are not necessarily correct. The fourth problem is that we

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are not paying enough attention to establishing a

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relationship with society.

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So there's a whole chapter in the book dedicated to this

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topic. What I'm not sure about is if I got the point of the

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question correctly. So again, if the person who asked the

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question could clarify, I'll be happy to further expand.

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Okay, considering the time, we only have about one minute to

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ten seconds until we go. So what we're going to do, as we

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usually do, Mohsen, is that we're going to move the stream

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onto the next talk. And if you want to take a little bit of time

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in this room to answer the question, I'm putting a link to the

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pad in the BBB chat so you can open it on your end. But as we are

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still live for 15 more seconds, do you have any last words?

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Keep up the good work. Those would be my last words, that the

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free software and the open source and Emacs are a very valid

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strategy for inside of IPR resistance. And thank you, Leo

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and Sacha and the rest of the folks for this wonderful yearly

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event. Well, thank you so much. And it's always a pleasure to

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have you. And thank you for your thankings. So we'll be

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moving to the next talk in 10 seconds. Mohsen, thank you so

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much. And I'll see you later. Thank you. Bye-bye. Bye.

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All right. We are off air. So thank you so much, Mohsen. I'll

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need to get moving to get ready for the next talk. So again,

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feel free to take the time you need to answer the questions.

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I'm going to stop sharing my screen because I need to leave.

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But take all the time you need. And when you're finished, you

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can just leave the room. OK. All right, bye-bye. Thank you.

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Great. I see one more person in the room.

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Hi, John.

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I was looking at the questions.

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To see if there is more that I can add. So.

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through the regard of societal impacts on ethical,

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philosophical and wider force community. I'm involved in

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politics in my country, my party is very sympathetic to

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force ideas and I have public...

NOTE Q: Do you have any recommended reading materials designed for such an audience?

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Do you have any recommendation

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to reading materials designed for such an audience? Um,

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yeah, this is with regard to the last question

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that's on the etherpad at this moment. The idea is

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that my own book would be an excellent resource. I'd

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say the bibliography in the book contains various

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other pointers that could be quite useful.

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I'm reading again.

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Yeah.

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Very good. If there are no other questions,

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I think I'm going to consider this a day and move on.

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Thank you.