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+WEBVTT
+
+00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.199
+Thank you for the talk. I mean, it was a fairly long one and we
+
+00:00:04.200 --> 00:00:07.999
+had two very distinct parts, one which dealt with a
+
+00:00:08.000 --> 00:00:12.079
+philosophy of Libre-Halaal software and then the application,
+
+00:00:12.080 --> 00:00:14.279
+obviously, of Bisos. So thank you so much for the
+
+00:00:14.280 --> 00:00:17.839
+presentation. Before we get started with the question, and
+
+00:00:17.840 --> 00:00:21.799
+for the record, we have about 14 minutes of question time, is
+
+00:00:21.800 --> 00:00:25.079
+there anything that you'd like to add on top of your
+
+00:00:25.080 --> 00:00:27.759
+presentation, something that perhaps would not have fit in
+
+00:00:27.760 --> 00:00:33.399
+the actual presentation format? Sure, but prior to that,
+
+00:00:33.400 --> 00:00:37.839
+félicitations à tous les Français pour le rouvrir de
+
+00:00:37.840 --> 00:00:42.719
+Notre-Dame. Thank you. I'll say thank you because I'm a
+
+00:00:42.720 --> 00:00:48.039
+Francophone and I'm also French, but OK.
+
+00:00:48.040 --> 00:00:58.159
+Yeah, so a few things have come up in various other talks,
+
+00:00:58.160 --> 00:01:04.359
+that kind of EmacsConf 2024 talks, that kind of dovetail
+
+00:01:04.360 --> 00:01:10.599
+with what I was saying. One idea was Peter Prevos's
+
+00:01:10.600 --> 00:01:20.639
+observation of working with Emacs versus working on Emacs.
+
+00:01:20.640 --> 00:01:28.279
+And I'm all for that. So the idea of BLEE is that
+
+00:01:28.280 --> 00:01:32.599
+Others can package things, and we are seeing this in the form
+
+00:01:32.600 --> 00:01:38.119
+of redistributions. There is Doom, there is Space Max, and
+
+00:01:38.120 --> 00:01:44.079
+we are seeing the evolution of Emacs into layers. So there is
+
+00:01:44.080 --> 00:01:50.119
+the core Emacs, and there are layers on top of it. And Peter
+
+00:01:50.120 --> 00:01:59.799
+also mentioned about too much choice, this notion of
+
+00:01:59.800 --> 00:02:08.919
+Not always too much choice is the right thing to have. And
+
+00:02:08.920 --> 00:02:18.279
+packaging Emacs with a layer on top of Debian gives you a
+
+00:02:18.280 --> 00:02:24.159
+platform and an environment where the choices are a lot
+
+00:02:24.160 --> 00:02:31.159
+less. And that is not necessarily a bad thing.
+
+00:02:31.160 --> 00:02:36.719
+So that was one idea. The other idea or the other theme
+
+00:02:36.720 --> 00:02:42.919
+throughout the various talks that we saw was this concept of
+
+00:02:42.920 --> 00:02:53.519
+mixing org mode with programming languages and What Babel
+
+00:02:53.520 --> 00:03:00.479
+has done is two things. One is it has successfully
+
+00:03:00.480 --> 00:03:06.799
+integrated org mode with all kinds of languages. And that
+
+00:03:06.800 --> 00:03:13.039
+has happened in the context of literate programming. Um, so
+
+00:03:13.040 --> 00:03:16.839
+a talk coming after mine is literate programming for the
+
+00:03:16.840 --> 00:03:22.399
+21st century, mixing org mode with program languages. And
+
+00:03:22.400 --> 00:03:27.359
+what I am saying is that there is an alternative and that's
+
+00:03:27.360 --> 00:03:33.839
+great, but we should also, uh, consider a traditional
+
+00:03:33.840 --> 00:03:40.159
+programming mixed with org mode and, um, Polymode is key to
+
+00:03:40.160 --> 00:03:49.239
+that. So those were some of the key concepts that I saw a
+
+00:03:49.240 --> 00:03:55.799
+resonance with as the conference went forward. Yeah, and I
+
+00:03:55.800 --> 00:03:59.959
+think, if my memory serves me right, we have another talk
+
+00:03:59.960 --> 00:04:04.199
+about hyperbole this year, right after this Q&A session.
+
+00:04:04.200 --> 00:04:07.919
+And hyperbole, it's not Org Mode, but I'm not sure if you're
+
+00:04:07.920 --> 00:04:10.359
+familiar with it, Mohsen, you might have seen it from
+
+00:04:10.360 --> 00:04:14.639
+various talks last year, but it also tends to have a similar
+
+00:04:14.640 --> 00:04:18.919
+stance than you, with the fact that text should be embedded
+
+00:04:18.920 --> 00:04:21.919
+in programming languages rather than having Org Mode
+
+00:04:21.920 --> 00:04:25.439
+implement, I mean, integrate other languages. And I found
+
+00:04:25.440 --> 00:04:28.359
+it funny that we have your talk and this talk which are about
+
+00:04:28.360 --> 00:04:32.999
+the other direction, which I find very resonating as well.
+
+00:04:33.000 --> 00:04:40.439
+Right, right, right. So in terms of other things that did not
+
+00:04:40.440 --> 00:04:46.999
+fit into my talk is that the several concepts that I
+
+00:04:47.000 --> 00:04:49.599
+introduced, namely
+
+00:04:49.600 --> 00:04:57.879
+dynamic blocks everywhere and COMEEGA.
+
+00:04:57.880 --> 00:05:07.719
+I'd be happy to expand on those by sharing your screen in due
+
+00:05:07.720 --> 00:05:12.519
+course, whatever is appropriate. Sure, considering the
+
+00:05:12.520 --> 00:05:16.119
+time that we have, we only have about 8 minutes 30 and we
+
+00:05:16.120 --> 00:05:18.999
+already have about four, five questions actually. I
+
+00:05:19.000 --> 00:05:22.599
+suggest we perhaps leave the screen sharing until later if
+
+00:05:22.600 --> 00:05:25.399
+people are interested. I mean this Q&A can last as long as you
+
+00:05:25.400 --> 00:05:30.079
+want. That makes perfect sense. OK, cool. So how about we
+
+00:05:30.080 --> 00:05:33.279
+focus on the question now and starting with the first one.
+
+NOTE Q: I'm from Brazil, which edition would you recommend?
+
+00:05:33.280 --> 00:05:36.279
+You mentioned that there are two editions, one named at
+
+00:05:36.280 --> 00:05:40.159
+Westerners and one for worldwide readers. I'm from Brazil.
+
+00:05:40.160 --> 00:05:42.599
+Which edition would you recommend? It's a Western country,
+
+00:05:42.600 --> 00:05:45.479
+but you didn't make the distinction exclusive for the
+
+00:05:45.480 --> 00:05:48.199
+second edition. So I thought it would be better to ask.
+
+00:05:48.200 --> 00:05:56.119
+Right. So definitely, I would say for everybody who is on
+
+00:05:56.120 --> 00:06:01.959
+this conference, the international edition is the right
+
+00:06:01.960 --> 00:06:11.639
+choice. In this book, I take some aggressive stance against
+
+00:06:11.640 --> 00:06:19.279
+intellectual property and I link that specifically to the
+
+00:06:19.280 --> 00:06:27.439
+American culture. So there are pieces in the book where the
+
+00:06:27.440 --> 00:06:36.399
+typical American audience may be offended. And if your skin
+
+00:06:36.400 --> 00:06:43.279
+is thick enough to deal with what I consider reasonable
+
+00:06:43.280 --> 00:06:48.319
+criticism, then the International Edition is definitely
+
+00:06:48.320 --> 00:06:54.439
+the better choice. Right. So yeah, I believe you also
+
+00:06:54.440 --> 00:06:56.959
+mentioned it. Pretty much exactly the same thing in your
+
+00:06:56.960 --> 00:07:00.239
+talk. So if you need to review, just watch the talk. And I
+
+00:07:00.240 --> 00:07:03.439
+think Mohsen also provides extra information about this.
+
+00:07:03.440 --> 00:07:07.079
+Moving on to the second question. Thank you for this talk.
+
+NOTE Q: Thank you for this talk! How does your perspective interface with works such as Yanis Varoufakis' Technofeudalism?
+
+00:07:07.080 --> 00:07:10.319
+How does your perspective interface with work such as Yanis
+
+00:07:10.320 --> 00:07:14.639
+Varoufakis' Technofeudalism?
+
+00:07:14.640 --> 00:07:24.919
+I haven't read much of that. I think there is a whole lot of
+
+00:07:24.920 --> 00:07:34.199
+global growth and collective understanding towards this
+
+00:07:34.200 --> 00:07:42.479
+notion that the direction we are headed in And by that, I mean
+
+00:07:42.480 --> 00:07:46.879
+American digital ecosystems
+
+00:07:46.880 --> 00:07:53.159
+are dangerous and that we should revisit
+
+00:07:53.160 --> 00:08:03.239
+the entirety of the model and strategy.
+
+00:08:03.240 --> 00:08:10.119
+If the person who asked the question has any additional
+
+00:08:10.120 --> 00:08:16.119
+information, I'll be happy to hear it. Sure. We'll see if the
+
+00:08:16.120 --> 00:08:19.559
+person actually comes back to this. All right. In the
+
+00:08:19.560 --> 00:08:21.979
+meantime, moving on to the next question.
+
+NOTE Q: To what extent do you agree that the introduction of proprietary systems in education creates an environment for exploitation while at the same time diluting the learning value of the curriculum?
+
+00:08:21.980 --> 00:08:22.959
+To what extent do
+
+00:08:22.960 --> 00:08:25.519
+you agree that the introduction of proprietary systems in
+
+00:08:25.520 --> 00:08:29.279
+education creates an environment for exploitation whilst
+
+00:08:29.280 --> 00:08:31.679
+at the same time diluting the learning value of the
+
+00:08:31.680 --> 00:08:34.879
+curriculum? My computing education at school amounted to
+
+00:08:34.880 --> 00:08:38.399
+learning how to use the Microsoft Office suite, i.e. the
+
+00:08:38.400 --> 00:08:44.679
+opposite of lasting open knowledge. Yeah, that's right on
+
+00:08:44.680 --> 00:08:49.719
+the mark. That's right on the mark. So the idea is that
+
+00:08:49.720 --> 00:08:55.919
+teaching and learning should be unrestricted. In the
+
+00:08:55.920 --> 00:09:02.479
+Muslim tradition and in Iranian tradition, we say that
+
+00:09:02.480 --> 00:09:12.919
+passing along the learning is the tax on having learned. So
+
+00:09:12.920 --> 00:09:20.359
+absolutely. I think it makes very little sense for the
+
+00:09:20.360 --> 00:09:27.039
+proprietary Microsoft software to be used as part of
+
+00:09:27.040 --> 00:09:33.519
+education. So the question is right on the mark. Okay,
+
+00:09:33.520 --> 00:09:38.519
+great. Let me just take a note of this. All right, moving on to
+
+00:09:38.520 --> 00:09:40.052
+the next question.
+
+NOTE Q: As a specific example of how "ownership is not clean" ...
+
+00:09:40.053 --> 00:09:43.359
+As a specific example of how ownership is
+
+00:09:43.360 --> 00:09:46.239
+not something clean, look at the Star Trek Picard series.
+
+00:09:46.240 --> 00:09:48.839
+They continuously asked Patrick Stewart to come to do
+
+00:09:48.840 --> 00:09:52.159
+another Star Trek series, but he couldn't because Star Trek
+
+00:09:52.160 --> 00:09:54.959
+changed from what it used to be, at least until they came up
+
+00:09:54.960 --> 00:09:57.999
+with a series that honored what Star Trek used to be. Does
+
+00:09:58.000 --> 00:10:21.839
+this intersect? Let me read this for a moment.
+
+00:10:21.840 --> 00:10:30.599
+Yeah, I am not sure I fully get the point, but. Let me make a
+
+00:10:30.600 --> 00:10:35.959
+point about my criticisms of the false movement
+
+00:10:35.960 --> 00:10:47.399
+in the presentation and in the book. The idea is that we have
+
+00:10:47.400 --> 00:10:53.919
+jumped on the false movement and recognize it as an
+
+00:10:53.920 --> 00:11:02.279
+alternative But we haven't looked deeply enough to see if
+
+00:11:02.280 --> 00:11:07.759
+our own philosophy and movement have problems. The
+
+00:11:07.760 --> 00:11:14.959
+problems that I note is that The first movement does not
+
+00:11:14.960 --> 00:11:21.279
+recognize clearly and explicitly that the entirety of the
+
+00:11:21.280 --> 00:11:30.399
+intellectual property rights regime is flawed. The second
+
+00:11:30.400 --> 00:11:37.239
+piece is that it's only now that we are seeing the FOSS
+
+00:11:37.240 --> 00:11:45.479
+movement is broader than the Western world. The third
+
+00:11:45.480 --> 00:11:54.919
+problem is that the labels of free software and open source
+
+00:11:54.920 --> 00:12:01.159
+are not necessarily correct. The fourth problem is that we
+
+00:12:01.160 --> 00:12:07.239
+are not paying enough attention to establishing a
+
+00:12:07.240 --> 00:12:09.999
+relationship with society.
+
+00:12:10.000 --> 00:12:16.439
+So there's a whole chapter in the book dedicated to this
+
+00:12:16.440 --> 00:12:23.959
+topic. What I'm not sure about is if I got the point of the
+
+00:12:23.960 --> 00:12:30.279
+question correctly. So again, if the person who asked the
+
+00:12:30.280 --> 00:12:35.679
+question could clarify, I'll be happy to further expand.
+
+00:12:35.680 --> 00:12:40.279
+Okay, considering the time, we only have about one minute to
+
+00:12:40.280 --> 00:12:42.959
+ten seconds until we go. So what we're going to do, as we
+
+00:12:42.960 --> 00:12:45.439
+usually do, Mohsen, is that we're going to move the stream
+
+00:12:45.440 --> 00:12:47.839
+onto the next talk. And if you want to take a little bit of time
+
+00:12:47.840 --> 00:12:51.799
+in this room to answer the question, I'm putting a link to the
+
+00:12:51.800 --> 00:12:56.519
+pad in the BBB chat so you can open it on your end. But as we are
+
+00:12:56.520 --> 00:12:59.319
+still live for 15 more seconds, do you have any last words?
+
+00:12:59.320 --> 00:13:09.039
+Keep up the good work. Those would be my last words, that the
+
+00:13:09.040 --> 00:13:14.239
+free software and the open source and Emacs are a very valid
+
+00:13:14.240 --> 00:13:24.479
+strategy for inside of IPR resistance. And thank you, Leo
+
+00:13:24.480 --> 00:13:29.719
+and Sacha and the rest of the folks for this wonderful yearly
+
+00:13:29.720 --> 00:13:33.559
+event. Well, thank you so much. And it's always a pleasure to
+
+00:13:33.560 --> 00:13:36.119
+have you. And thank you for your thankings. So we'll be
+
+00:13:36.120 --> 00:13:38.439
+moving to the next talk in 10 seconds. Mohsen, thank you so
+
+00:13:38.440 --> 00:13:47.559
+much. And I'll see you later. Thank you. Bye-bye. Bye.
+
+00:13:47.560 --> 00:13:50.159
+All right. We are off air. So thank you so much, Mohsen. I'll
+
+00:13:50.160 --> 00:13:52.559
+need to get moving to get ready for the next talk. So again,
+
+00:13:52.560 --> 00:13:54.519
+feel free to take the time you need to answer the questions.
+
+00:13:54.520 --> 00:13:56.719
+I'm going to stop sharing my screen because I need to leave.
+
+00:13:56.720 --> 00:13:59.319
+But take all the time you need. And when you're finished, you
+
+00:13:59.320 --> 00:14:04.039
+can just leave the room. OK. All right, bye-bye. Thank you.
+
+00:14:04.040 --> 00:14:23.439
+Great. I see one more person in the room.
+
+00:14:23.440 --> 00:14:35.679
+Hi, John.
+
+00:14:35.680 --> 00:14:38.079
+I was looking at the questions.
+
+00:14:38.080 --> 00:14:46.239
+To see if there is more that I can add. So.
+
+00:14:46.240 --> 00:14:54.919
+through the regard of societal impacts on ethical,
+
+00:14:54.920 --> 00:14:58.439
+philosophical and wider force community. I'm involved in
+
+00:14:58.440 --> 00:15:02.239
+politics in my country, my party is very sympathetic to
+
+00:15:02.240 --> 00:15:05.277
+force ideas and I have public...
+
+NOTE Q: Do you have any recommended reading materials designed for such an audience?
+
+00:15:05.278 --> 00:15:08.039
+Do you have any recommendation
+
+00:15:08.040 --> 00:15:12.359
+to reading materials designed for such an audience? Um,
+
+00:15:12.360 --> 00:15:17.999
+yeah, this is with regard to the last question
+
+00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:24.439
+that's on the etherpad at this moment. The idea is
+
+00:15:24.440 --> 00:15:32.199
+that my own book would be an excellent resource. I'd
+
+00:15:32.200 --> 00:15:39.279
+say the bibliography in the book contains various
+
+00:15:39.280 --> 00:15:43.039
+other pointers that could be quite useful.
+
+00:15:43.040 --> 00:15:55.399
+I'm reading again.
+
+00:15:55.400 --> 00:15:57.799
+Yeah.
+
+00:15:57.800 --> 00:16:20.159
+Very good. If there are no other questions,
+
+00:16:20.160 --> 00:16:31.839
+I think I'm going to consider this a day and move on.
+
+00:16:31.840 --> 00:16:43.760
+Thank you.