path: root/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-emacsen--the-emacsen-family-the-design-of-an-emacs-and-the-importance-of-lisp--fermin--answers.vtt

WEBVTT


00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:00.540
[Speaker 0]: Here.

00:00:05.140 --> 00:00:05.440
[Speaker 1]: All right. Yeah. So thanks,

00:00:06.279 --> 00:00:06.779
Fermin, for the great talk.

00:00:08.039 --> 00:00:08.540
People have questions,

00:00:12.179 --> 00:00:12.380
please post them on the pad or the IRC as

00:00:13.259 --> 00:00:13.759
well and we'll take them up.

00:00:17.240 --> 00:00:17.480
[Speaker 2]: Thank you very much. The guests will be here

00:00:21.720 --> 00:00:22.220
to answer questions. Let's see.

00:00:23.560 --> 00:00:24.060
Yep.

00:00:28.080 --> 00:00:28.220
[Speaker 1]: And also, Fermin, if you later want to

00:00:30.660 --> 00:00:31.160
clarify anything or fix any URLs or such,

00:00:32.860 --> 00:00:33.000
you're always welcome to do that either like

00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:36.140
on the Wiki page, or if you like email any of

00:00:37.560 --> 00:00:37.840
the organizers, they should be able to help

00:00:38.400 --> 00:00:38.900
with that as well.

00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:41.500
[Speaker 2]: Okay. Yeah, I put the wrong URL.

00:00:46.020 --> 00:00:46.360
Yeah, not a big deal really,

00:00:48.480 --> 00:00:48.980
if you look it up. Yeah,

00:00:50.940 --> 00:00:51.440
that's really better. Thank you very much.

00:00:56.920 --> 00:00:57.420
Checking, no questions.

00:00:58.780 --> 00:00:59.280
Very good to be in touch.

00:01:17.220 --> 00:01:17.360
[Speaker 1]: Oh, we have a question here in the big blue

00:01:17.720 --> 00:01:18.220
button chat.

00:01:21.820 --> 00:01:22.320
[Speaker 2]: Oh, public chat. I see.

00:01:26.380 --> 00:01:26.600
Is LEM an acronym? I think it is,

00:01:32.960 --> 00:01:33.080
but I never remember. The complete name is

00:01:36.160 --> 00:01:36.660
like something... It's also a circle,

00:01:38.940 --> 00:01:39.440
like, you know, a self-referencing,

00:01:41.320 --> 00:01:41.820
you know, recursive name.

00:01:42.900 --> 00:01:43.400
I never remember it, sorry.

00:01:45.860 --> 00:01:46.360
It's like... Yeah, someone...

00:01:50.580 --> 00:01:51.080
Okay, someone asked about the DEM community,

00:01:56.200 --> 00:01:56.700
how big it is. So I don't remember,

00:01:57.500 --> 00:01:57.720
to answer the question,

00:01:58.440 --> 00:01:58.740
I don't remember the acronym,

00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:01.140
but it is an acronym. I just never...

00:02:04.700 --> 00:02:05.060
And it's not written anywhere,

00:02:06.380 --> 00:02:06.880
I think, or someone...

00:02:09.340 --> 00:02:09.840
I never check it. So I...

00:02:12.720 --> 00:02:13.220
[Speaker 0]: I forgot.

00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:15.820
[Speaker 2]: My maintainer told me once and then So,

00:02:17.540 --> 00:02:17.900
whole large, does Leia have a package

00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:20.300
manager? We do have a package manager,

00:02:21.900 --> 00:02:22.400
funnily enough. We use the QuickLisp

00:02:26.200 --> 00:02:26.700
infrastructure to get packages,

00:02:29.580 --> 00:02:30.080
so it's very easy to install packages.

00:02:33.340 --> 00:02:33.840
So basically, we don't have a package manager

00:02:35.740 --> 00:02:36.240
as in Emacs, half a packet.l.

00:02:39.140 --> 00:02:39.400
We're using the same common list

00:02:41.180 --> 00:02:41.460
infrastructure to provide the different

00:02:45.560 --> 00:02:46.060
packages. We also have a talk with the

00:02:47.360 --> 00:02:47.620
Ultralisp, which is like a,

00:02:48.640 --> 00:02:48.900
you know, QuickLisp is like,

00:02:50.020 --> 00:02:50.520
you can think quickly of Melpa.

00:02:52.540 --> 00:02:53.040
Ultralisp is like a fast Melpa,

00:02:54.440 --> 00:02:54.900
very fast Melpa, that every,

00:02:58.460 --> 00:02:58.660
I think every day you can get a package from

00:03:01.720 --> 00:03:01.880
them. And We have a tag system that you can

00:03:02.920 --> 00:03:03.420
submit a package and get a tag,

00:03:08.180 --> 00:03:08.360
and Theory can download those packages with

00:03:13.140 --> 00:03:13.640
the lem tag. So the thing is,

00:03:17.040 --> 00:03:17.440
it's not yet, it doesn't have a user

00:03:18.400 --> 00:03:18.900
interface to install packages.

00:03:22.020 --> 00:03:22.520
Still, it's 2 external packages.

00:03:25.520 --> 00:03:25.920
For now, imagine this is like the early

00:03:27.560 --> 00:03:27.960
Emacs, right? Everything is going to the core

00:03:29.040 --> 00:03:29.540
for now, because we need that functionality.

00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:32.680
In the future, we probably will split it up

00:03:37.120 --> 00:03:37.620
way more. But let me first answer a question

00:03:42.440 --> 00:03:42.740
in the other part. How large is the LEN

00:03:44.440 --> 00:03:44.720
community? Hope it's a chance of survival

00:03:47.360 --> 00:03:47.860
long term. So we are a very small community,

00:03:51.260 --> 00:03:51.760
mostly because Sasaki-san,

00:03:54.120 --> 00:03:54.620
the main developers of the community,

00:03:57.160 --> 00:03:57.440
are from Japan and some of them,

00:03:58.620 --> 00:03:59.120
or most of them, don't know English.

00:04:01.640 --> 00:04:01.960
At the beginning, LEM was a very

00:04:05.020 --> 00:04:05.220
Japanese-centric tooling because barrier of

00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:07.460
language, most of the users are from Japan.

00:04:08.640 --> 00:04:09.140
So different communities.

00:04:12.040 --> 00:04:12.260
And also, I don't know why,

00:04:13.100 --> 00:04:13.520
but the main maintainer,

00:04:17.740 --> 00:04:18.079
which is Asaki-san, very good guy and a very,

00:04:19.079 --> 00:04:19.579
very talented developer.

00:04:21.779 --> 00:04:22.280
He doesn't like to, you know,

00:04:24.640 --> 00:04:25.020
at first the project was all in Japanese,

00:04:27.100 --> 00:04:27.260
so he doesn't care if someone uses the

00:04:28.520 --> 00:04:29.020
project or not. He's more focused on the,

00:04:32.080 --> 00:04:32.560
I guess, quality of the features of it.

00:04:35.740 --> 00:04:36.240
So that creates a problem that doesn't really

00:04:38.680 --> 00:04:39.000
mind the community. So the community doesn't

00:04:41.640 --> 00:04:41.760
mind in a good way. It's to focus more on

00:04:43.440 --> 00:04:43.940
technicality rather than the user,

00:04:46.300 --> 00:04:46.800
which I mean, I cannot blame him.

00:04:49.540 --> 00:04:49.700
It's very hard work to build an Emacs and

00:04:52.540 --> 00:04:53.040
editor from scratch. It's not a trivial task.

00:04:56.160 --> 00:04:56.660
So yeah, we're a very small community.

00:04:58.660 --> 00:04:58.940
But I think the chance of survival is very

00:05:01.440 --> 00:05:01.640
good because LEM is written in ANSI Common

00:05:04.540 --> 00:05:05.040
Lisp, so it should be used in any...

00:05:07.440 --> 00:05:07.940
Well, it works in a lot of Common Lisp

00:05:10.400 --> 00:05:10.900
implementation. For people who don't know,

00:05:12.180 --> 00:05:12.400
Common Lisp is a language that was

00:05:13.140 --> 00:05:13.640
standardized in the 94.

00:05:14.640 --> 00:05:14.840
I explained that in the talk,

00:05:15.660 --> 00:05:16.160
but I'll say it again.

00:05:18.080 --> 00:05:18.580
So, if Common Lisp exists,

00:05:21.200 --> 00:05:21.700
in theory, LEM should also exist.

00:05:24.340 --> 00:05:24.840
And also if nCursor doesn't break or doesn't

00:05:27.560 --> 00:05:28.060
stop to exist, which is even less likely.

00:05:30.400 --> 00:05:30.900
So that's the main idea.

00:05:33.460 --> 00:05:33.740
And you can use LEM for very good Common Lisp

00:05:36.380 --> 00:05:36.600
development already. If Common Lisp doesn't

00:05:39.440 --> 00:05:39.940
change that much, it should disappear.

00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:43.220
We are not bound to any company or any...

00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:46.540
Even Sasaki-san, God forbid,

00:05:47.720 --> 00:05:48.220
disappears instantaneously.

00:05:50.280 --> 00:05:50.740
There are a few people,

00:05:52.260 --> 00:05:52.440
me included, that know very well the code

00:05:54.020 --> 00:05:54.520
base and we can continue the development.

00:05:56.320 --> 00:05:56.720
So it's not like 1, there's no one-man

00:05:58.860 --> 00:05:59.360
project. Maybe a four-man project or 5,

00:06:04.280 --> 00:06:04.640
but not 1. Okay, I'll answer the 1 in the

00:06:08.100 --> 00:06:08.600
chat, on the blue button.

00:06:10.520 --> 00:06:10.840
Is it best to learn Common Lisp before

00:06:13.100 --> 00:06:13.600
learning to use LEM? I think this is similar

00:06:15.780 --> 00:06:16.280
to Emacs and EmacLisp,

00:06:18.740 --> 00:06:19.080
right? Should you use EmacLisp before using

00:06:20.160 --> 00:06:20.460
Emacs? Doesn't make too much sense,

00:06:23.360 --> 00:06:23.860
right? You see Emacs and then you go learning

00:06:28.620 --> 00:06:29.060
Common Lisp. I think it's the same,

00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:31.300
sorry, EmacsLisp. And it's the same with LEM.

00:06:32.800 --> 00:06:33.300
You can start using LEM with a non-common

00:06:37.800 --> 00:06:38.040
Lisp, which is fine. You can use it to edit

00:06:39.020 --> 00:06:39.520
your things. It's like an editor.

00:06:42.900 --> 00:06:43.040
But like Emacs, LEM puts a lot of focus on

00:06:46.820 --> 00:06:46.960
extensibility. So it's very probable that you

00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:50.420
will learn how to write Common Lisp.

00:06:53.440 --> 00:06:53.600
I have to say that a lot of people that use

00:06:56.000 --> 00:06:56.440
LEM, well, me and most of the people,

00:06:59.060 --> 00:06:59.440
come from Emacs. So if you come from Emacs

00:07:00.620 --> 00:07:01.120
and you know a little bit of Emac Lisp,

00:07:04.820 --> 00:07:05.320
Common Lisp is like an uncle or cousin

00:07:07.120 --> 00:07:07.620
distance that shares some similarities.

00:07:09.820 --> 00:07:10.020
So you will... Well, it's not going to be

00:07:12.520 --> 00:07:13.020
that. I can show... Sorry about that.

00:07:14.960 --> 00:07:15.460
For example, I show that in the...

00:07:21.780 --> 00:07:22.280
I can show... So the...

00:07:27.080 --> 00:07:27.540
It's not that different from Emacs regarding

00:07:28.940 --> 00:07:29.440
configuration. So for example,

00:07:31.020 --> 00:07:31.520
this command doesn't exist on LEM.

00:07:35.020 --> 00:07:35.520
And Sasaki-san didn't want to copy one-to-one

00:07:36.360 --> 00:07:36.860
the command from Emacs,

00:07:39.660 --> 00:07:39.860
the airgrip, the cursor grip command of

00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:41.620
Emacs. And I said, okay,

00:07:43.080 --> 00:07:43.440
then I'm going to implement it myself.

00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:44.740
And it's something like this,

00:07:47.960 --> 00:07:48.080
which is you will do something similar to

00:07:50.320 --> 00:07:50.500
Emacs, right? This will be like things at

00:07:52.280 --> 00:07:52.780
point symbol or something like that.

00:07:54.740 --> 00:07:55.240
And then you have a prompt,

00:07:59.060 --> 00:07:59.440
very prompt for directory with Emacs would be

00:08:01.260 --> 00:08:01.560
something similar. And then you then launch

00:08:02.960 --> 00:08:03.460
grep with the command that you want.

00:08:06.340 --> 00:08:06.780
This is not that far from Emacs,

00:08:10.680 --> 00:08:10.840
this, really. If you don't know neither of

00:08:12.740 --> 00:08:13.240
those, you can still use LEM,

00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:17.060
though as with Emacs, extensibility will be,

00:08:22.440 --> 00:08:22.760
well, you couldn't extend it if you don't

00:08:28.700 --> 00:08:29.100
know combo disp. Should I answer the question

00:08:33.280 --> 00:08:33.780
on the etherpad writing it at the same time?

00:08:36.580 --> 00:08:36.760
[Speaker 1]: You're welcome to, but you don't have to.

00:08:38.000 --> 00:08:38.500
You can just answer here on stream,

00:08:40.440 --> 00:08:40.940
[Speaker 2]: on the Google button. Okay.

00:08:43.140 --> 00:08:43.640
Okay. Are there any Lisp machine capabilities

00:08:45.020 --> 00:08:45.280
you're trying to provide that GNU image

00:08:46.920 --> 00:08:47.040
lacks? The type objects capability in the

00:08:47.560 --> 00:08:48.060
editor, as an example.

00:08:53.840 --> 00:08:54.340
I mean, there were a few discussions about

00:08:59.920 --> 00:09:00.060
the Lisp machines and LEM and all the big

00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:03.280
projects that tries to get some capability of

00:09:05.180 --> 00:09:05.680
it. But we don't really...

00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:10.340
We try to improve the development experience

00:09:12.800 --> 00:09:13.300
for Common Lisp and for LEM,

00:09:18.460 --> 00:09:18.660
imitating a lot of things that the Lisp

00:09:21.560 --> 00:09:22.060
machine had. I'm going to try to do a thing

00:09:23.400 --> 00:09:23.900
that I don't know if it's going to work.

00:09:26.880 --> 00:09:27.380
So to explain this, let's see.

00:09:35.680 --> 00:09:36.180
I'm going to recompile them now live.

00:09:42.040 --> 00:09:42.540
Let's see how it works.

00:09:47.860 --> 00:09:48.240
And compiling the, yes,

00:09:51.780 --> 00:09:52.280
it doesn't work. OK. What if I do?

00:09:53.900 --> 00:09:54.220
No, it doesn't work. OK.

00:09:55.280 --> 00:09:55.760
I was trying to compile the SDL2,

00:09:57.540 --> 00:09:58.040
but I do have the codebase modifier.

00:10:00.360 --> 00:10:00.860
I should be able to compile this.

00:10:05.640 --> 00:10:06.140
Oh, that was really bad.

00:10:13.320 --> 00:10:13.580
What about example? I have the code base,

00:10:17.220 --> 00:10:17.720
so let me check. I'm going to do this.

00:10:19.080 --> 00:10:19.580
Oh, yeah, I have this modified.

00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:31.620
I stash this. OK. I have this modified.

00:10:33.280 --> 00:10:33.780
Now it should work. OK.

00:10:42.480 --> 00:10:42.820
Sorry. I was going to show the writing

00:10:45.620 --> 00:10:45.900
capabilities of it, similar to the Lisp

00:10:47.800 --> 00:10:48.300
machine of navigating of classes.

00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:52.500
So the answer of that question is,

00:10:57.040 --> 00:10:57.180
not really. We don't try to emulate this

00:10:58.440 --> 00:10:58.940
machine, nor any like of that.

00:11:05.500 --> 00:11:06.000
But yeah. Let me, I'm going to try to,

00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:07.620
okay, now I'm back at them.

00:11:12.180 --> 00:11:12.500
Okay. So what about using them for things

00:11:13.260 --> 00:11:13.760
other than common, common,

00:11:16.160 --> 00:11:16.500
that markets? Okay. So yes,

00:11:18.280 --> 00:11:18.480
we do have, so I'm going to show the code

00:11:20.280 --> 00:11:20.780
base a little bit. Like I said before,

00:11:25.120 --> 00:11:25.600
we don't have yet too much external packages

00:11:26.500 --> 00:11:27.000
because of the size of the community.

00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:30.940
I have a question. Go ahead,

00:11:32.160 --> 00:11:32.660
you can write it, Michael.

00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:38.300
Yeah. So, yes, as you can see here,

00:11:43.900 --> 00:11:44.340
this is almost all, or 99% of the major modes

00:11:46.160 --> 00:11:46.620
we have. We use the same terminology of

00:11:47.640 --> 00:11:48.140
SkinnyMemax in that way.

00:11:49.120 --> 00:11:49.440
For example, the C mode,

00:11:51.460 --> 00:11:51.580
if you go inside, you see that this is the

00:11:53.600 --> 00:11:53.980
fine major mode. So in that regard,

00:11:54.800 --> 00:11:55.300
it's very similar to Emacs.

00:11:56.600 --> 00:11:57.100
And we have something called a JIT,

00:11:58.320 --> 00:11:58.820
which is like a maggot.

00:12:00.280 --> 00:12:00.780
And you can edit files.

00:12:02.500 --> 00:12:02.980
You can use not only for common lists.

00:12:06.820 --> 00:12:07.320
In my configuration, which is written,

00:12:11.140 --> 00:12:11.640
I will post that later,

00:12:15.480 --> 00:12:15.640
but if you go to my code burg you can see my

00:12:16.460 --> 00:12:16.960
configuration which is,

00:12:20.460 --> 00:12:20.640
which I do have. So for example you can use

00:12:22.260 --> 00:12:22.760
it for a scheme. We have a swank server.

00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:24.340
This is the configuration to use it.

00:12:25.900 --> 00:12:26.040
You can use it for JavaScript because we have

00:12:28.180 --> 00:12:28.680
a native LSP client written in.

00:12:29.540 --> 00:12:29.800
And we have Dired. Yeah,

00:12:33.820 --> 00:12:34.320
this is Dired. We have Dired indeed.

00:12:35.560 --> 00:12:35.740
No, it's not Dired, you know.

00:12:36.260 --> 00:12:36.760
It's called directory.

00:12:38.860 --> 00:12:39.360
Sasaki-san, which is the main maintainer,

00:12:43.100 --> 00:12:43.600
doesn't like to copy one-to-one Emacs names,

00:12:48.700 --> 00:12:49.200
but we are the same. We also have projects,

00:12:51.780 --> 00:12:52.280
which is like projectile.

00:12:55.120 --> 00:12:55.240
So, you know, they're very similar but not

00:12:56.940 --> 00:12:57.440
the same. We also have a VI configuration,

00:12:59.220 --> 00:12:59.380
as you can see. I'm using the VI commands and

00:13:00.100 --> 00:13:00.600
stuff, and it's very good.

00:13:03.940 --> 00:13:04.120
I will say not as good as an evil because it

00:13:06.680 --> 00:13:07.180
still needs some polish,

00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:08.500
but it's getting there.

00:13:13.780 --> 00:13:13.860
So we can also program in JavaScript and a

00:13:16.160 --> 00:13:16.660
lot of LSP things, and Elixir,

00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:19.100
which was recently added by myself.

00:13:21.580 --> 00:13:22.080
And yeah, it's very fun to add new modes.

00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:27.940
OK, what else next? What about user-level

00:13:28.440 --> 00:13:28.940
things other than coding?

00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:31.880
What about using this in conjunction with

00:13:34.340 --> 00:13:34.840
Nix? Oh, so there's a big,

00:13:36.980 --> 00:13:37.480
so like I said before,

00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:40.200
there were like an issue that 3 main common

00:13:40.960 --> 00:13:41.460
list project were talking,

00:13:46.920 --> 00:13:47.420
some of the users. So the 3 main projects are

00:13:49.340 --> 00:13:49.840
LEM, probably, Nixed, and then StamWM,

00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:53.000
the 3 main, well, 3 big,

00:13:55.280 --> 00:13:55.440
common list projects that are trying to

00:13:57.720 --> 00:13:58.040
emulate an Emacs experience in different

00:14:00.100 --> 00:14:00.340
fields. 1 is Editor, the other 1 is Window

00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:02.220
Manager, and the 1 is the browser.

00:14:06.560 --> 00:14:06.820
The problem is that the design of the 3 are

00:14:11.680 --> 00:14:11.960
very different. So Nix is very focused on the

00:14:14.900 --> 00:14:15.060
browser. You can connect to Nix.

00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:16.920
So given that they're both a common list,

00:14:18.940 --> 00:14:19.160
you can connect to Nix from them and vice

00:14:21.420 --> 00:14:21.600
versa. And you can send commands and you can,

00:14:22.580 --> 00:14:23.080
so you have this kind of interoperability

00:14:31.420 --> 00:14:31.580
with both. But no, you cannot combine both to

00:14:35.280 --> 00:14:35.780
have 1 LEMNIX. That would be very sick.

00:14:39.400 --> 00:14:39.600
I would love it. But the effort is just too

00:14:41.000 --> 00:14:41.280
much. Keep in mind we are a very small

00:14:44.960 --> 00:14:45.060
community. The LEM, like I said,

00:14:49.920 --> 00:14:50.140
we are like 345 developers that write

00:14:51.880 --> 00:14:52.380
packages and answer questions and stuff.

00:14:55.380 --> 00:14:55.880
Now we need users in that way to test things.

00:14:58.480 --> 00:14:58.820
So what is the license of LEM?

00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:00.980
The license of LEM is MAT.

00:15:02.860 --> 00:15:03.180
We have some components of all the various

00:15:04.480 --> 00:15:04.980
licenses, but the main 1 is MAT.

00:15:07.160 --> 00:15:07.660
I didn't choose the license of it.

00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:11.820
I would highly prefer a more like GPL 1,

00:15:13.500 --> 00:15:14.000
but like I said I'm not a maintainer,

00:15:15.860 --> 00:15:16.360
so the license is MAT.

00:15:19.820 --> 00:15:20.320
This question, I realize,

00:15:22.120 --> 00:15:22.200
how far is LEM from being able to remove a

00:15:26.500 --> 00:15:26.940
list libraries? OK, that's a big question

00:15:30.660 --> 00:15:30.920
indeed. And Funny enough,

00:15:31.800 --> 00:15:32.300
2 years ago in the EmacsConf,

00:15:34.340 --> 00:15:34.700
I talk about this, not with LEM,

00:15:36.340 --> 00:15:36.480
but with Common Lisp and Emacs Lisp in

00:15:41.880 --> 00:15:42.100
general. So I'm not the only 1 thinking about

00:15:44.100 --> 00:15:44.240
this. In fact, I'm talking with someone that

00:15:46.740 --> 00:15:46.960
is trying to write like a Emacs Lisp

00:15:48.120 --> 00:15:48.620
interpreter to work with them.

00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:52.740
The thing is that Emaclist libraries,

00:15:55.080 --> 00:15:55.580
so the API is just very different.

00:15:57.720 --> 00:15:58.220
That's the main problem.

00:15:58.940 --> 00:15:59.440
That's really the problem.

00:16:02.320 --> 00:16:02.820
You can, so you can, let me see.

00:16:13.380 --> 00:16:13.880
So, you can have an Emacs list buffer of LEM.

00:16:15.420 --> 00:16:15.920
This is an Emacs list rebel.

00:16:21.380 --> 00:16:21.560
I wrote an LRSP client so you can connect to

00:16:23.140 --> 00:16:23.560
Emacs and send things and stuff.

00:16:25.160 --> 00:16:25.660
So you're friends that we share stuff.

00:16:28.340 --> 00:16:28.840
But having a complete Emacless implementation

00:16:37.400 --> 00:16:37.600
with LEM and work with both API will be a

00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:42.600
huge work. Very like, it's even if they share

00:16:43.680 --> 00:16:44.180
very similar thing, in fact,

00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:46.980
API in some places is very similar.

00:16:48.540 --> 00:16:49.040
Down the line infrastructure,

00:16:52.220 --> 00:16:52.720
so the code is, so it's completely different.

00:16:56.680 --> 00:16:56.840
It will be very hard. We do have a clone of

00:16:58.940 --> 00:16:59.440
maggot that works, more or less.

00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:01.940
Well, it does work, but maggot's just better.

00:17:03.340 --> 00:17:03.820
But it's getting there.

00:17:05.020 --> 00:17:05.460
So like I said, we're trying to,

00:17:06.220 --> 00:17:06.720
not to copy one-to-one,

00:17:09.640 --> 00:17:10.140
but to adapting each tool to LEM.

00:17:13.260 --> 00:17:13.760
How are LEM buffer designs similar to Emacs?

00:17:19.700 --> 00:17:20.020
So yeah, that would be,

00:17:21.260 --> 00:17:21.760
so how a blend buffer design,

00:17:24.780 --> 00:17:25.280
similar to Emacs. So similar in what way,

00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:26.819
actually with properties.

00:17:29.180 --> 00:17:29.480
I think that you've seen,

00:17:31.220 --> 00:17:31.560
so you do have like a font lock,

00:17:32.420 --> 00:17:32.920
different kind of properties,

00:17:37.820 --> 00:17:38.040
but it's not exactly how Emac does it with

00:17:41.740 --> 00:17:42.180
overlays and stuff. You can,

00:17:43.080 --> 00:17:43.580
so if you're very interested,

00:17:45.300 --> 00:17:45.800
I don't want to go too much deep into the,

00:17:51.500 --> 00:17:51.720
let me go to, I don't want to go too much

00:17:55.380 --> 00:17:55.760
deep into the technicality of things now,

00:17:57.920 --> 00:17:58.080
but you can go. So LEM is written 100% in

00:18:00.040 --> 00:18:00.380
Common Lisp. So if you know Common Lisp,

00:18:03.900 --> 00:18:04.040
you can go to buffer. You can check all the

00:18:08.520 --> 00:18:09.020
codes here. Always we have,

00:18:12.780 --> 00:18:13.280
we also have this, which is like StreamX.

00:18:17.860 --> 00:18:18.360
Sorry to that, I don't.

00:18:21.900 --> 00:18:22.400
But yeah, So you can see.

00:18:24.440 --> 00:18:24.940
So yeah, if you go to the code base,

00:18:26.780 --> 00:18:27.280
maybe some of you can check this problem.

00:18:28.500 --> 00:18:29.000
Well, not problem, but yeah.

00:18:30.340 --> 00:18:30.840
That's this Japanese comment.

00:18:35.560 --> 00:18:36.060
You can see here why it's very,

00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:38.300
you have to translate and stuff,

00:18:39.560 --> 00:18:40.060
which is sometimes a little bit annoying.

00:18:44.540 --> 00:18:45.040
But yeah, some of them are in English.

00:18:47.020 --> 00:18:47.440
So this play is not the same.

00:18:48.800 --> 00:18:49.200
So if you're interested,

00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:51.400
you can go to the buffer and check it out for

00:18:53.480 --> 00:18:53.600
yourself. But I think it uses the overlay in

00:18:58.620 --> 00:18:58.900
a different way. So the implementation is

00:19:04.800 --> 00:19:05.020
different that way. Oh,

00:19:10.875 --> 00:19:11.375
[Speaker 0]: This module. Oh, this is very low.

00:19:12.560 --> 00:19:13.060
[Speaker 2]: this is fairly low. What other things or

00:19:15.559 --> 00:19:15.600
experiences that I can show you?

00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:16.420
Just like you show you.

00:19:18.120 --> 00:19:18.620
Any marks?

00:19:32.860 --> 00:19:33.360
Okay, very interesting question.

00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:34.500
What are the things...

00:19:37.460 --> 00:19:37.960
So that's interesting.

00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:43.220
Let me see. So forgive me,

00:19:49.660 --> 00:19:49.760
you answered this. I talked briefly in the

00:19:53.560 --> 00:19:53.780
talk about this, but basically I like

00:19:55.840 --> 00:19:56.340
Komaldisp, I have the mascot here.

00:19:58.040 --> 00:19:58.540
[Speaker 3]: a very

00:20:04.740 --> 00:20:04.840
[Speaker 2]: It's Italian thing. I like Common Lisp and I

00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:08.800
think GmagLisp is a very good friend of

00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:10.520
Common Lisp in the way that Serious Software

00:20:11.840 --> 00:20:12.340
Analysis is a very good uncle.

00:20:18.800 --> 00:20:19.300
Let me answer first the 1.

00:20:24.140 --> 00:20:24.620
So I like to extend it in Common Lisp.

00:20:25.640 --> 00:20:26.140
I like the Common Lisp libraries.

00:20:30.100 --> 00:20:30.360
And I think them have a better design in

00:20:31.220 --> 00:20:31.720
terms of its 1 language,

00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:33.980
which I think is a nice strength.

00:20:36.580 --> 00:20:36.660
Like, 1 of the things that put me off when I

00:20:38.680 --> 00:20:39.020
was using Emacs, I love to extend the editor

00:20:40.600 --> 00:20:41.100
and to go inside and stuff.

00:20:43.360 --> 00:20:43.520
And 1 of the things that I'm not a big fan of

00:20:44.820 --> 00:20:45.020
C. If you're a fan of C,

00:20:47.040 --> 00:20:47.240
you will be very pleasant with finding C

00:20:50.440 --> 00:20:50.660
stuff, but I don't. So when I'm trying to

00:20:52.340 --> 00:20:52.840
hack an Emacs and go inside the things,

00:20:54.140 --> 00:20:54.640
I will control C code.

00:20:56.200 --> 00:20:56.660
That's not that interactive as the Emaclist

00:20:59.340 --> 00:20:59.840
1, and that would be like a fuzzball for me.

00:21:03.740 --> 00:21:04.080
I was always dreaming about that stuff,

00:21:05.320 --> 00:21:05.820
having like everything in 1 language.

00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:08.160
The thing that LEM does to me is like it

00:21:12.100 --> 00:21:12.560
allows me to extend the editor to modify

00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:14.660
also, to modify in Common Lisp.

00:21:17.660 --> 00:21:18.160
Also, I like the language and technology.

00:21:19.600 --> 00:21:19.900
It's a bold thing, right?

00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:21.980
It's a world language that I love,

00:21:23.740 --> 00:21:24.240
and Emacs that I love.

00:21:25.380 --> 00:21:25.880
Emacs, I'm a big fan of,

00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:27.520
or a user of GNU Emacs.

00:21:29.380 --> 00:21:29.880
And LEM is like Emacs plus Common Lisp,

00:21:30.600 --> 00:21:30.900
but with a different design.

00:21:32.360 --> 00:21:32.860
I don't want to, It's not a clone.

00:21:37.800 --> 00:21:38.040
I want to get this very clear that LEM is not

00:21:40.760 --> 00:21:41.140
a clone of Emacs. The sign is very different

00:21:43.180 --> 00:21:43.500
in a lot of ways. But it's very inspired,

00:21:44.380 --> 00:21:44.880
and that cannot be denied.

00:21:48.280 --> 00:21:48.780
[Speaker 1]: I can jump in for a second.

00:21:51.120 --> 00:21:51.360
I think we're like 15 minutes into the lunch

00:21:52.660 --> 00:21:53.040
break, but you're welcome to continue

00:21:55.600 --> 00:21:55.760
answering questions. But if anyone on the

00:21:57.500 --> 00:21:58.000
stream or folks want to go grab lunch,

00:21:59.760 --> 00:21:59.860
feel free to do that. I'm probably going to

00:22:01.880 --> 00:22:02.040
do that as well. But yeah,

00:22:03.760 --> 00:22:03.920
we can either continue keeping this on the

00:22:06.180 --> 00:22:06.440
stream, or if people would like to come join

00:22:08.600 --> 00:22:09.100
here on BigBlueButton and talk to Fermin,

00:22:11.040 --> 00:22:11.540
like folks have already done that,

00:22:12.440 --> 00:22:12.940
yeah, you're welcome to.

00:22:14.620 --> 00:22:15.120
[Speaker 2]: Yeah, go ahead. No problem.

00:22:16.500 --> 00:22:17.000
Thank you. Thank you, Vitaliy.

00:22:25.160 --> 00:22:25.280
Cheers. Cheers. So finishing the answer to

00:22:30.080 --> 00:22:30.380
the question, I think LEM does tries to fix

00:22:31.880 --> 00:22:32.380
some Emacs problems, can we fix problems

00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:35.700
regarding the internal API,

00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:37.480
which makes sense, right?

00:22:39.060 --> 00:22:39.560
Emacs have like 40 years,

00:22:42.280 --> 00:22:42.780
which is a lot. And yeah,

00:22:44.760 --> 00:22:45.060
which is, that's what makes me happy.

00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:47.720
I use both now. I use Maggis and Emacs for

00:22:50.200 --> 00:22:50.460
some languages and then I use LEM for Common

00:22:51.100 --> 00:22:51.600
Lisp and other languages.

00:22:55.240 --> 00:22:55.740
You can also use LEM for EmacLisp,

00:22:59.760 --> 00:22:59.960
which makes LEM the second best editor for

00:23:02.360 --> 00:23:02.860
EmacLisp. It was a funny thing to do.

00:23:05.980 --> 00:23:06.100
OK, so do you think LEM will continue to have

00:23:06.760 --> 00:23:07.260
a lot of Japanese documentation?

00:23:11.720 --> 00:23:12.180
So there's not that many Japanese

00:23:12.780 --> 00:23:13.280
documentation, really.

00:23:18.280 --> 00:23:18.480
So there's a few comments here and there,

00:23:20.800 --> 00:23:20.920
but it's not full. We have a web page with a

00:23:22.020 --> 00:23:22.520
lot of documentation in English.

00:23:25.380 --> 00:23:25.880
So you can take a look at that.

00:23:29.080 --> 00:23:29.580
But we do have to improve the documentation

00:23:30.260 --> 00:23:30.760
and translate it to English.

00:23:32.220 --> 00:23:32.440
Sasaki-san is up to it,

00:23:35.460 --> 00:23:35.960
but he just doesn't feel that comfortable

00:23:36.600 --> 00:23:37.100
translating it himself.

00:23:38.680 --> 00:23:39.180
So yeah.

00:23:42.720 --> 00:23:43.220
[Speaker 3]: So, this is Peter on BigBlueWem.

00:23:49.620 --> 00:23:50.120
Yeah, it's neat that Wem even exists,

00:23:55.520 --> 00:23:55.940
because there's always chatter on the Emacs

00:23:58.980 --> 00:23:59.280
mailing list to rewrite Emacs and some other

00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:04.120
language. And to see that it's already to see

00:24:05.320 --> 00:24:05.820
that I mean, you have an implementation

00:24:08.360 --> 00:24:08.560
sitting there and, and the thing I was

00:24:10.600 --> 00:24:10.960
wondering while I was listening in on the,

00:24:14.060 --> 00:24:14.460
on the Q and A was do you have Dured?

00:24:15.400 --> 00:24:15.700
Do you have Maggot? And some,

00:24:17.100 --> 00:24:17.600
somebody else wrote that question into,

00:24:20.460 --> 00:24:20.640
into Etherpad. But I was happy to see that

00:24:22.800 --> 00:24:23.000
you have Dured or something like it

00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:25.440
implemented. Because I think that's like the,

00:24:27.040 --> 00:24:27.180
for me, that's the most important thing in

00:24:30.800 --> 00:24:31.000
Emacs because that gets me around in my

00:24:35.200 --> 00:24:35.380
[Speaker 2]: BRODINKOVICH Yeah, for me too.

00:24:35.740 --> 00:24:36.240
For me too.

00:24:37.100 --> 00:24:37.260
[Speaker 0]: Go ahead.

00:24:37.740 --> 00:24:37.940
[Speaker 3]: system. VICTOR Sorry. Yeah,

00:24:39.680 --> 00:24:40.160
so I may try it out sometime,

00:24:42.040 --> 00:24:42.540
but probably won't be for like 3 or 6 months,

00:24:45.060 --> 00:24:45.240
because there's always a backlog of other

00:24:46.560 --> 00:24:47.060
things to try out.

00:24:49.800 --> 00:24:50.300
[Speaker 4]: I'm the 1 who wrote that question.

00:24:54.020 --> 00:24:54.520
And do you use, I think you have bookmarks

00:24:55.380 --> 00:24:55.800
and registers, I imagine,

00:24:55.800 --> 00:24:56.300
right?

00:24:59.700 --> 00:25:00.060
[Speaker 2]: I think you have. I never tried bookmarks

00:25:01.220 --> 00:25:01.400
because I don't use it that much.

00:25:02.560 --> 00:25:03.060
But I think you have something like that.

00:25:05.420 --> 00:25:05.840
I mean, I don't. There's a few features that

00:25:07.360 --> 00:25:07.540
I don't know about them because I don't use

00:25:08.680 --> 00:25:08.980
it much. Some features,

00:25:11.580 --> 00:25:11.840
I mean. But yeah, I think you have.

00:25:13.100 --> 00:25:13.380
Let me check. We can check,

00:25:16.620 --> 00:25:17.120
probably. Things in extensions,

00:25:23.140 --> 00:25:23.480
just directory. VNXT. Directory mode.

00:25:28.950 --> 00:25:29.450
So there is. So this is the Tyrant's friend.

00:25:31.780 --> 00:25:32.230
I won't say clone. Very inspired.

00:25:36.580 --> 00:25:36.900
[Speaker 4]: What about like on the note-taking front,

00:25:38.440 --> 00:25:38.940
like org mode,

00:25:41.040 --> 00:25:41.380
[Speaker 2]: You know. note... Yes,

00:25:50.440 --> 00:25:50.940
so... EMMS... Yes, so someone did some MMS.

00:25:58.380 --> 00:25:58.620
So not MMS, not much. So package for LEM that

00:26:00.060 --> 00:26:00.400
is now in a pull request,

00:26:03.800 --> 00:26:04.300
I think. But yeah, no.

00:26:06.800 --> 00:26:07.300
The thing is I don't use R mode that much.

00:26:11.980 --> 00:26:12.480
We don't have a heavy R mode user to provide

00:26:15.020 --> 00:26:15.300
some major mode and stuff.

00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:18.600
So we don't have that implemented yet.

00:26:20.580 --> 00:26:20.900
The thing is, my plans for,

00:26:22.360 --> 00:26:22.860
I do have plans for our mode.

00:26:24.020 --> 00:26:24.520
They're a little bit evil,

00:26:26.200 --> 00:26:26.700
but there's plans for it.

00:26:27.800 --> 00:26:28.040
So I'm planning to use,

00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:30.060
so rewriting our mode is a big task that I

00:26:34.200 --> 00:26:34.700
don't want to do. So I'm going to use Emacs

00:26:39.020 --> 00:26:39.520
for our mode in 2.11. I wrote a recipe,

00:26:45.060 --> 00:26:45.380
no, a remote procedural RPC that I'm using

00:26:46.860 --> 00:26:47.360
for the Red Bull and stuff.

00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:51.200
And I'm planning to have an Emacs Puppet to

00:26:54.720 --> 00:26:55.220
provide me the functionality for Org Mode.

00:26:59.380 --> 00:26:59.760
[Speaker 4]: I know for me, when I write notes,

00:27:01.640 --> 00:27:01.940
I like to note more than Org Roam just

00:27:06.340 --> 00:27:06.840
because I feel Org Mode is great and all,

00:27:08.920 --> 00:27:09.060
but if all my notes are in it,

00:27:10.260 --> 00:27:10.760
I kind of feel trapped by it.

00:27:14.460 --> 00:27:14.960
I did the talk journaling in KOutline,

00:27:17.800 --> 00:27:18.040
and I like that package better for some

00:27:21.040 --> 00:27:21.260
things and it's like if I want to put like

00:27:24.280 --> 00:27:24.780
the tags on PDF file names and so it's like

00:27:28.940 --> 00:27:29.100
Yeah, it's great and all but it's also Is

00:27:31.560 --> 00:27:31.740
that part of the motivation of wanting to use

00:27:34.620 --> 00:27:35.120
lamb is so you feel less entrapped by emacs

00:27:38.445 --> 00:27:38.840
No, I will say I don't no.

00:27:40.620 --> 00:27:41.120
[Speaker 2]: No, no. I was very happy trapping to Emacs.

00:27:47.100 --> 00:27:47.560
To be fair. The thing is I don't use Hormel

00:27:48.600 --> 00:27:49.100
that much. That's just the reality.

00:27:52.120 --> 00:27:52.580
Org Mode for me is a very good markup

00:27:54.660 --> 00:27:54.810
language, but not that much really.

00:27:56.920 --> 00:27:57.420
I know that Org Mode has a lot of people and

00:27:58.740 --> 00:27:59.060
it's used by a lot of people.

00:28:00.060 --> 00:28:00.560
And there's very interesting packages.

00:28:03.700 --> 00:28:04.200
[Speaker 4]: What about org mode versus markdown versus

00:28:05.800 --> 00:28:06.300
plain text versus latex then?

00:28:08.480 --> 00:28:08.860
[Speaker 2]: I like org mode because of the Emacs

00:28:10.380 --> 00:28:10.880
functionality. I think if you take that away,

00:28:15.600 --> 00:28:16.100
you plain or mode versus Markdown,

00:28:17.720 --> 00:28:18.080
I don't think there's that much difference,

00:28:19.960 --> 00:28:20.460
if you take the Emacs functionality away.

00:28:24.560 --> 00:28:24.880
I like the

00:28:27.260 --> 00:28:27.760
[Speaker 4]: Yeah. Emacs syntax more than Markdown.

00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:29.900
Like, for instance, you have the double

00:28:31.720 --> 00:28:31.960
square brackets, which is simpler for me to

00:28:32.500 --> 00:28:33.000
look at, but.

00:28:35.820 --> 00:28:36.060
[Speaker 2]: Yeah, I guess it's a matter of,

00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:38.640
I mean, we don't have yet a major mode of R

00:28:39.800 --> 00:28:40.300
mode, which will be quite trivial.

00:28:42.660 --> 00:28:43.160
Well, you know, a simple syntax highlights,

00:28:46.040 --> 00:28:46.540
you know, R mode in LEM,

00:28:52.460 --> 00:28:52.960
because no 1 wrote it.

00:28:55.320 --> 00:28:55.640
I mean, that's the way with this project,

00:29:00.060 --> 00:29:00.360
right? If you need people to be motivated to

00:29:04.120 --> 00:29:04.620
do that. And with LEM,

00:29:06.540 --> 00:29:07.040
someone asked about the Japanese.

00:29:11.320 --> 00:29:11.820
I think they're interested about that.

00:29:15.040 --> 00:29:15.420
LEM does have a thing,

00:29:16.030 --> 00:29:16.095
[Speaker 0]: If the it would be good.

00:29:16.800 --> 00:29:17.160
[Speaker 4]: I'd be able to do more,

00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:18.500
but that's what I

00:29:19.370 --> 00:29:19.870
[Speaker 0]: was doing.

00:29:22.420 --> 00:29:22.820
[Speaker 2]: they think True. So, for example,

00:29:24.240 --> 00:29:24.740
we're using another big fan of...

00:29:27.840 --> 00:29:28.080
I mean, I know that the main people that may

00:29:30.280 --> 00:29:30.780
use in the future LEM are EMACLIS people.

00:29:33.080 --> 00:29:33.580
A lot of them. It's very similar.

00:29:37.540 --> 00:29:37.940
And Sasaki-san and the LEM community mainly

00:29:43.260 --> 00:29:43.760
uses Discord for chat and stuff.

00:29:46.980 --> 00:29:47.480
I mean, we do have matrix,

00:29:48.540 --> 00:29:48.640
and I should connect to it,

00:29:54.960 --> 00:29:55.320
by the way. But we mainly use Discord,

00:29:58.080 --> 00:29:58.580
which I don't think is a good thing.

00:30:01.900 --> 00:30:02.300
I mean, to have the main communication

00:30:05.020 --> 00:30:05.520
channels, Discord. Because,

00:30:09.020 --> 00:30:09.520
well, it's Discord. It's a closed source

00:30:13.180 --> 00:30:13.440
application that is easy for some people,

00:30:14.340 --> 00:30:14.840
but for some people it's a tailbreak.

00:30:17.040 --> 00:30:17.080
[Speaker 0]: are in

00:30:17.580 --> 00:30:18.080
[Speaker 2]: Especially people that the Emacs community

00:30:20.080 --> 00:30:20.580
that very like free software.

00:30:22.800 --> 00:30:23.300
[Speaker 4]: The only good thing about Molesley is it's

00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:26.380
popular, but as soon as you break out of that

00:30:28.380 --> 00:30:28.520
mold, all of a sudden it becomes a lot

00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:30.900
harder. For instance, they don't have...

00:30:33.820 --> 00:30:34.320
All the third-party clients are unofficial

00:30:37.340 --> 00:30:37.500
and according to their terms of service they

00:30:40.380 --> 00:30:40.600
can just can you. Which is not a nice

00:30:44.020 --> 00:30:44.180
position to be in if you're trying to use it

00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:47.700
and you wanted to be a moderator using some

00:30:50.600 --> 00:30:51.100
side tools that weren't Discord.

00:30:55.320 --> 00:30:55.560
[Speaker 2]: I agree 100% and in fact I'm not a big fan,

00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:56.900
I don't like Discord.

00:31:03.860 --> 00:31:04.360
[Speaker 5]: You mentioned the RPC you did between Emacs

00:31:06.200 --> 00:31:06.700
and the LEM. Do you have it published

00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:07.220
somewhere?

00:31:13.520 --> 00:31:14.020
[Speaker 2]: Yes, it's in the LEM project.

00:31:15.820 --> 00:31:16.320
I'll copy that in the chat.

00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:19.340
[Speaker 5]: Okay, because I'm always interested in how

00:31:21.560 --> 00:31:22.060
you do like the communication with other

00:31:24.020 --> 00:31:24.320
programs with Emacs because that's

00:31:24.320 --> 00:31:24.820
interesting.

00:31:30.140 --> 00:31:30.640
[Speaker 2]: I'm only using the porthole package,

00:31:32.460 --> 00:31:32.960
I'm not writing it from scratch,

00:31:34.340 --> 00:31:34.840
not that much as a developer.

00:31:37.540 --> 00:31:37.960
[Speaker 5]: So I don't know this package.

00:31:39.140 --> 00:31:39.640
Maybe that's the thing I can learn.

00:31:40.840 --> 00:31:41.140
[Speaker 2]: Oh yeah, probably if you,

00:31:42.360 --> 00:31:42.740
yeah. Yeah. If you want to,

00:31:43.860 --> 00:31:44.360
so I didn't see this 1,

00:31:46.420 --> 00:31:46.920
this package for the RSP,

00:31:48.620 --> 00:31:49.120
which make is monthly automatically.

00:31:53.200 --> 00:31:53.600
[Speaker 5]: And how do you do, how do you plan to

00:31:59.180 --> 00:31:59.440
integrate Org Mode? Because Org Mode needs to

00:31:59.760 --> 00:32:00.260
work on.

00:32:03.340 --> 00:32:03.540
[Speaker 2]: This way? Yes, so I'm planning to have like a

00:32:08.260 --> 00:32:08.760
Emacs puppet and to have like a clone buffer

00:32:11.320 --> 00:32:11.820
from the buffer that you do in LEM and then

00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:17.380
the command sent into the Emacs hidden buffer

00:32:19.820 --> 00:32:20.140
and then the changes go back to LEM to change

00:32:22.660 --> 00:32:23.160
the buffer of LEM. That's my idea.

00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:25.460
[Speaker 5]: Okay, that's all. It's interesting.

00:32:28.320 --> 00:32:28.540
Would be interesting to see what comes from

00:32:28.540 --> 00:32:29.040
it.

00:32:32.280 --> 00:32:32.780
[Speaker 2]: It's a bit, it's a hackish 100%.

00:32:35.200 --> 00:32:35.320
It's not, you have to duplicate the

00:32:36.020 --> 00:32:36.520
information and stuff,

00:32:38.940 --> 00:32:39.140
which is, oh, by the way,

00:32:40.320 --> 00:32:40.820
I'm going to pass the Lemington,

00:32:43.380 --> 00:32:43.880
which is the name of the RSP clone.

00:32:45.980 --> 00:32:46.480
Sorry, the integration with Emacs,

00:32:48.900 --> 00:32:49.400
which is LEM with a mustache.

00:32:54.400 --> 00:32:54.600
[Speaker 4]: They had good news where it would do the same

00:32:56.360 --> 00:32:56.860
thing, where it would open up a slave Emacs,

00:33:00.020 --> 00:33:00.520
because it was such a performance hog for

00:33:02.140 --> 00:33:02.640
retrieving all the emails.

00:33:06.940 --> 00:33:07.360
[Speaker 2]: No. I mean, Emacs have a server,

00:33:08.559 --> 00:33:08.860
right? I can, in fact,

00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:11.700
I'm using that for, I'm already puppeting.

00:33:13.340 --> 00:33:13.620
Well, not puppeting. I'm already using

00:33:15.700 --> 00:33:16.200
Maggots. So I have this.

00:33:17.400 --> 00:33:17.900
Actually, let me copy.

00:33:25.600 --> 00:33:25.920
I have this, which is usually a little bit,

00:33:28.080 --> 00:33:28.420
I'm launching the Emacs daemon and then I'm

00:33:31.500 --> 00:33:31.740
launching Leviton. And then this is the kill

00:33:32.300 --> 00:33:32.700
and this is the status,

00:33:33.440 --> 00:33:33.940
which is basically saying,

00:33:36.680 --> 00:33:37.180
run this and this is this,

00:33:42.040 --> 00:33:42.540
which is run maggot in this file.

00:33:43.940 --> 00:33:44.340
If you put it side by side,

00:33:48.680 --> 00:33:48.800
you will check instantly that this is the

00:33:50.900 --> 00:33:51.400
buffer directory, LEM home,

00:33:54.020 --> 00:33:54.520
and then the current file.

00:33:58.860 --> 00:33:59.360
Because I'm launching it with the file.

00:34:03.940 --> 00:34:04.240
So buffer directory, which is the directory

00:34:09.239 --> 00:34:09.739
of the buffer. So I'm already using maggot as

00:34:13.600 --> 00:34:14.080
a tool outside of LEM,

00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:15.060
because I really like maggot.

00:34:16.920 --> 00:34:17.420
And this is very easy to check.

00:34:22.719 --> 00:34:23.219
Launch Emacs daemon. Okay.

00:34:28.580 --> 00:34:29.080
And then I go to local projects.

00:34:31.719 --> 00:34:32.219
Let's go to another 1 that is not LEM.

00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:37.400
[Speaker 4]: You actually have weird ideas like running it

00:34:39.639 --> 00:34:39.860
in daemon mode so you don't ever have to

00:34:40.840 --> 00:34:41.340
restart it or the images,

00:34:43.100 --> 00:34:43.600
I guess, that LEM has.

00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:47.300
[Speaker 2]: LEM does not have this kind of,

00:34:53.719 --> 00:34:54.060
I will call it, it doesn't have like a demon

00:34:56.280 --> 00:34:56.780
mode, so you have control separately,

00:34:58.860 --> 00:34:59.360
but keep in mind that LEM,

00:35:01.260 --> 00:35:01.680
it's a common list program.

00:35:03.340 --> 00:35:03.840
So if you use slime or Sly,

00:35:10.080 --> 00:35:10.580
you can easily connect to them to hack on it.

00:35:12.380 --> 00:35:12.880
[Speaker 4]: ever use that functionality,

00:35:14.060 --> 00:35:14.560
like using it from another computer?

00:35:16.400 --> 00:35:16.900
[Speaker 2]: Do you Another computer,

00:35:17.600 --> 00:35:18.100
I think the same computer,

00:35:21.460 --> 00:35:21.620
or maybe Sage, but yeah,

00:35:21.820 --> 00:35:22.320
it's very...

00:35:24.520 --> 00:35:25.020
[Speaker 4]: Or from like your window,

00:35:26.640 --> 00:35:27.140
if you were using the window...

00:35:28.260 --> 00:35:28.580
I can't remember the name of the window

00:35:30.100 --> 00:35:30.600
manager. Or if you were using...

00:35:36.460 --> 00:35:36.960
What? Yeah, yeah. Or using like stump,

00:35:40.680 --> 00:35:40.760
calling it from like stump WM or how often do

00:35:41.500 --> 00:35:42.000
you use that REPL?

00:35:43.740 --> 00:35:43.940
[Speaker 2]: SPCL? No. ThumbWM? I use it quite a lot.

00:35:44.700 --> 00:35:45.200
I connect to a museum,

00:35:49.400 --> 00:35:49.760
some WM right now, and I use LEM to connect

00:35:52.240 --> 00:35:52.740
to it, but I was using Emacs before.

00:35:55.800 --> 00:35:55.960
And you can use Sly or Slime to connect to

00:35:58.260 --> 00:35:58.520
LEM. So the thing that is in Common List

00:36:00.900 --> 00:36:01.400
makes it this kind of already out-of-the-box

00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:04.280
connectivity between different...

00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:07.460
[Speaker 4]: How many window managers have you used?

00:36:11.120 --> 00:36:11.400
I've used that before.

00:36:13.440 --> 00:36:13.780
I've also used, like right now I'm using

00:36:14.720 --> 00:36:15.220
Sway. I've used Xmonad,

00:36:16.260 --> 00:36:16.760
DWM.

00:36:23.040 --> 00:36:23.540
[Speaker 2]: This is awesome. What is the other 1?

00:36:25.680 --> 00:36:26.180
I can't remember the name.

00:36:27.900 --> 00:36:28.380
But it was like a few years ago.

00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:31.020
I've been doing some DWM for like the last

00:36:36.260 --> 00:36:36.760
[Speaker 4]: I remember that. Go ahead.

00:36:37.740 --> 00:36:38.240
[Speaker 2]: year, I think. Or 3. know,

00:36:41.940 --> 00:36:42.440
it's that I was... I don't know.

00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:43.520
[Speaker 0]: I don't a couple

00:36:44.040 --> 00:36:44.540
[Speaker 2]: I'd like to have of days of my...

00:36:48.280 --> 00:36:48.400
[Speaker 4]: I remember that that window manager seemed to

00:36:53.300 --> 00:36:53.600
have some unique ideas that weren't

00:36:56.280 --> 00:36:56.780
necessarily available on like EWM and XMLNAD.

00:37:02.540 --> 00:37:03.040
[Speaker 2]: So SoundLM, it's an interesting project.

00:37:05.140 --> 00:37:05.460
But for example, I'll change...

00:37:06.720 --> 00:37:07.080
So I don't have in this computer,

00:37:08.240 --> 00:37:08.680
but in my other computer,

00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:14.320
I change the mod line or bar,

00:37:18.220 --> 00:37:18.720
top bar, whatever, because the ThunderLVM

00:37:21.500 --> 00:37:22.000
doesn't only update it when you click,

00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:25.680
or you do some events or happen 1 minute.

00:37:27.560 --> 00:37:27.980
So you can see here, this is not changing

00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:28.820
until I click.

00:37:33.500 --> 00:37:33.720
[Speaker 0]: That's it.

00:37:34.360 --> 00:37:34.600
[Speaker 3]: AUDIENCE 1 Matthew, sorry.

00:37:36.160 --> 00:37:36.660
I have a quick question for Matthew.

00:37:43.520 --> 00:37:43.640
So is your talk going to be posted or did you

00:37:47.420 --> 00:37:47.920
[Speaker 4]: Go ahead. I gave them a recording.

00:37:50.140 --> 00:37:50.640
My talk was the K outline for journaling

00:37:53.080 --> 00:37:53.240
[Speaker 3]: give it live? right right it was I woke up

00:37:54.020 --> 00:37:54.520
too late for it Sorry,

00:37:58.420 --> 00:37:58.920
so I came in and I just saw Bob Weiner

00:38:03.240 --> 00:38:03.340
answering questions So is your talk going to

00:38:06.560 --> 00:38:07.060
be on the page for your talk?

00:38:07.740 --> 00:38:07.960
I don't

00:38:08.560 --> 00:38:09.060
[Speaker 0]: see it there.

00:38:11.940 --> 00:38:12.380
[Speaker 4]: I could give you a link to it,

00:38:17.480 --> 00:38:17.640
because I had, I hosted it on Mega to give it

00:38:18.840 --> 00:38:19.020
to them, because when I emailed it,

00:38:22.080 --> 00:38:22.200
[Speaker 3]: Oh, okay. Is it

00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:22.840
[Speaker 4]: it didn't work. on a monkey?

00:38:23.600 --> 00:38:24.100
Download and watch it.

00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:29.920
I'm probably going to post it on YouTube

00:38:33.600 --> 00:38:33.760
later. I, I had my face record with it,

00:38:36.020 --> 00:38:36.520
but I never got it edited together in time

00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:40.640
[Speaker 3]: Okay, if you could if you can put the link

00:38:43.140 --> 00:38:43.340
onto the onto the ether pad or something or

00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:46.160
onto the wiki then then I can find it and

00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:50.140
check it out. All right,

00:38:53.040 --> 00:38:53.480
thanks. Sorry to interrupt your time,

00:38:56.300 --> 00:38:56.440
Fermin, but I figure we're heavily into the

00:38:57.260 --> 00:38:57.760
break anyways. FERMIN GENZIERIA-CHAPMANI

00:39:00.920 --> 00:39:01.160
[Speaker 2]: No problem. I'm in an EMAX conference talking

00:39:02.860 --> 00:39:03.040
about all that I mean I'm already doing

00:39:04.280 --> 00:39:04.780
blasphemy so I

00:39:24.600 --> 00:39:24.800
think that's oh yeah notes so the thing is

00:39:26.640 --> 00:39:27.140
then as my point of view,

00:39:28.860 --> 00:39:29.360
and the point of view probably of Sasaki-san,

00:39:30.240 --> 00:39:30.740
just a moment, I think,

00:39:34.960 --> 00:39:35.220
is very focused on an IDE more than a

00:39:40.580 --> 00:39:41.080
node-taking editor. More like an integrated

00:39:41.540 --> 00:39:42.040
development environment.

00:39:45.040 --> 00:39:45.540
So node is like a second thing.

00:39:51.500 --> 00:39:52.000
So not exactly the main focus.

00:39:54.440 --> 00:39:54.780
And I know that Emacs does have a very strong

00:39:58.440 --> 00:39:58.940
community of Ormode users that use Emacs for

00:40:00.140 --> 00:40:00.244
Ormode, which is the killer feature,

00:40:01.080 --> 00:40:01.360
1 of I'll do a feature.

00:40:04.456 --> 00:40:04.956
I'll do a feature of Emacs.

00:40:09.160 --> 00:40:09.660
So I'm not the maintainer of porthole.

00:40:20.220 --> 00:40:20.580
I'm sorry. I did add it to so I don't

00:40:22.700 --> 00:40:23.040
maintain the remote. I'm sorry,

00:40:27.400 --> 00:40:27.840
I'll pothole the USB. I'm only using it on

00:40:31.120 --> 00:40:31.620
the Lamington. I cannot change anything.

00:40:39.520 --> 00:40:39.760
[Speaker 4]: What are some interesting things you have

00:40:40.760 --> 00:40:41.260
with your window manager?

00:40:43.780 --> 00:40:44.280
I do have elsewhere.

00:40:49.400 --> 00:40:49.600
[Speaker 2]: I can connect to it and hack it from my

00:40:53.040 --> 00:40:53.540
editor, which I think is really fun.

00:40:56.820 --> 00:40:57.220
The way I can write, so I wrote a few

00:40:58.500 --> 00:40:59.000
packages for Soundallium.

00:41:06.740 --> 00:41:07.240
So 1 of them is Proton,

00:41:10.360 --> 00:41:10.860
which basically launches like a...

00:41:18.480 --> 00:41:18.900
So Proton is like this wine thing that Valve

00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:22.500
[Speaker 4]: Yeah, I'm a user.

00:41:24.140 --> 00:41:24.640
[Speaker 2]: did. OK, so this basically,

00:41:26.480 --> 00:41:26.980
you have like a list of,

00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:32.540
let me check. No, we're just,

00:41:38.780 --> 00:41:39.020
sorry. This, So these all games are bought by

00:41:41.280 --> 00:41:41.780
me. They're not pirates in any way.

00:41:45.800 --> 00:41:46.300
I can use this to to launch it.

00:41:50.700 --> 00:41:51.200
[Speaker 4]: Was that Dmenu or was that StumpWM menu?

00:41:54.800 --> 00:41:55.240
[Speaker 2]: This is Dmenu. So I have,

00:42:02.300 --> 00:42:02.560
I also contribute the Dmenu integration into

00:42:05.820 --> 00:42:06.320
StumwM. So I use Dmenu.

00:42:07.480 --> 00:42:07.980
So like this, right?

00:42:13.300 --> 00:42:13.800
[Speaker 4]: Yeah that's pretty cool.

00:42:15.720 --> 00:42:15.940
You don't know how nice those things are

00:42:16.880 --> 00:42:17.380
until you start using those.

00:42:21.280 --> 00:42:21.780
[Speaker 2]: The menu is very interesting and very...

00:42:24.060 --> 00:42:24.560
Also I was using RoFi,

00:42:25.680 --> 00:42:26.000
but...

00:42:29.100 --> 00:42:29.540
[Speaker 4]: I was also more... The other thing I was more

00:42:31.240 --> 00:42:31.740
mentioning is that also,

00:42:32.860 --> 00:42:33.340
being able to use D-Menu,

00:42:34.800 --> 00:42:35.300
but being able to just have keyboard

00:42:38.680 --> 00:42:39.180
oriented? Everything fuzzy search narrowed

00:42:45.420 --> 00:42:45.480
and No tabs no status bars like all of a

00:42:47.160 --> 00:42:47.600
sudden your mental model on how your computer

00:42:51.420 --> 00:42:51.560
operates goes through the roof and a lot of

00:42:57.900 --> 00:42:58.400
Emacs users Know what that is like Especially

00:43:01.240 --> 00:43:01.740
In conjunction with a window manager?

00:43:06.740 --> 00:43:07.200
[Speaker 2]: Yeah, I think so. I remember when I was...

00:43:11.320 --> 00:43:11.820
So for me, I tried the Emacs window manager,

00:43:16.840 --> 00:43:17.340
but it wasn't for me. Having a single thread

00:43:18.460 --> 00:43:18.960
window manager is scary.

00:43:22.500 --> 00:43:22.840
And also games and some stuff wasn't working

00:43:25.040 --> 00:43:25.240
correctly, which it makes sense in some

00:43:27.340 --> 00:43:27.840
regards, using Emacs for window manager.

00:43:30.660 --> 00:43:31.160
Oh

00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:34.980
[Speaker 4]: I've used it before I found that it wasn't as

00:43:39.240 --> 00:43:39.740
like it. It's not as bad in practice because

00:43:43.020 --> 00:43:43.260
The paper cuts you don't like to hit them

00:43:45.800 --> 00:43:46.000
every day So you make sure So you make sure

00:43:48.080 --> 00:43:48.400
your Emacs config is a lot nicer and doesn't

00:43:51.040 --> 00:43:51.300
have those slowdowns. Or you avoid those

00:43:54.440 --> 00:43:54.780
things. It forces you to make your Emacs

00:43:59.440 --> 00:43:59.940
config a lot more robust to speed.

00:44:02.040 --> 00:44:02.300
[Speaker 2]: Yeah, yeah. That's true,

00:44:04.200 --> 00:44:04.440
yeah. The thing, yeah,

00:44:05.600 --> 00:44:06.020
but still, I don't know,

00:44:08.680 --> 00:44:09.060
[Speaker 4]: You'll still get the paper cuts,

00:44:09.060 --> 00:44:09.560
but...

00:44:12.360 --> 00:44:12.660
[Speaker 2]: like... Yeah, and my experience was not

00:44:16.500 --> 00:44:16.880
great. I'm not a person,

00:44:17.860 --> 00:44:18.360
like, I don't want to have...

00:44:19.960 --> 00:44:20.460
Not with LEM or Emacs.

00:44:22.660 --> 00:44:23.160
I like to have different programs.

00:44:25.840 --> 00:44:26.120
I don't want to like, I never was in like

00:44:28.040 --> 00:44:28.540
Emacs or you know, only Emacs.

00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:30.800
I really love Emacs, GNU Emacs,

00:44:33.920 --> 00:44:34.140
but only Emacs? No, no,

00:44:35.300 --> 00:44:35.540
I like my browser, I like my,

00:44:37.500 --> 00:44:38.000
you know, my Windows Manager,

00:44:41.280 --> 00:44:41.780
my, you know, I wasn't Emacs only.

00:44:45.520 --> 00:44:46.000
Emacs is my OS. Some people are,

00:44:48.600 --> 00:44:49.100
which is good. Different kind of a...

00:44:51.600 --> 00:44:52.100
I have to say that I come from Vim,

00:44:57.340 --> 00:44:57.720
like a long time ago. But I come from Vim,

00:44:58.660 --> 00:44:58.980
so I'm using Evil Mode.

00:45:00.280 --> 00:45:00.780
And I maybe have this kind of a...

00:45:05.700 --> 00:45:06.200
Yeah. So regarding Summoner.vm,

00:45:10.080 --> 00:45:10.580
it's... I like it because it's common Lisp,

00:45:13.940 --> 00:45:14.440
but it don't have some,

00:45:18.120 --> 00:45:18.620
this, I removed this. So I'm using another

00:45:21.040 --> 00:45:21.340
model line because the model line is not

00:45:24.440 --> 00:45:24.720
great. Everything else is a little bit weird

00:45:28.940 --> 00:45:29.440
because you have frames similar to Emacs.

00:45:33.560 --> 00:45:34.060
You have a frame. You have this window,

00:45:35.600 --> 00:45:36.100
and then there's no nothing here.

00:45:37.700 --> 00:45:38.100
[Speaker 4]: Yeah, I've used it before.

00:45:39.720 --> 00:45:40.220
That was definitely weird.

00:45:41.680 --> 00:45:42.180
It's also nice to be able to just...

00:45:43.660 --> 00:45:44.160
Can't you put multiple windows?

00:45:46.100 --> 00:45:46.600
Can't you duplicate windows?

00:45:48.040 --> 00:45:48.540
Show the same window in 2 frames?

00:45:48.560 --> 00:45:49.060
NIGEL

00:45:51.020 --> 00:45:51.520
[Speaker 2]: GANSZELA-WALSH Never tried that.

00:45:54.400 --> 00:45:54.900
Never occurred to me that.

00:45:57.840 --> 00:45:58.020
I don't know. Never tried that,

00:46:01.480 --> 00:46:01.980
to be honest. Let me check.

00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:07.780
No idea. Item? I think so.

00:46:10.080 --> 00:46:10.320
Because when you try to,

00:46:11.520 --> 00:46:11.980
at least not in an easy way.

00:46:13.940 --> 00:46:14.260
When you try to, so if I try to put a window

00:46:16.020 --> 00:46:16.520
here, let me move it so it,

00:46:20.060 --> 00:46:20.540
and if I try to like, so it's,

00:46:21.680 --> 00:46:21.890
yeah, no other window.

00:46:24.100 --> 00:46:24.360
[Speaker 4]: So can you open the, what is that,

00:46:25.080 --> 00:46:25.440
discord or your browser?

00:46:26.840 --> 00:46:27.340
Could you open that in both your frames?

00:46:34.620 --> 00:46:35.120
[Speaker 2]: I can I Side by side, but not the same

00:46:37.740 --> 00:46:37.920
[Speaker 0]: I mean I do I can I can have I know

00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:38.600
[Speaker 4]: can't your frames? 2 browsers you can do that

00:46:42.600 --> 00:46:43.100
[Speaker 2]: browser I never occurred to me that,

00:46:46.300 --> 00:46:46.800
[Speaker 4]: in DWM? You can't do that in XMLNet,

00:46:48.560 --> 00:46:49.060
at least I don't know what configuration

00:46:50.820 --> 00:46:51.020
you'd have to do to get to be able to do that

00:46:51.140 --> 00:46:51.640
in XMONAD.

00:46:54.060 --> 00:46:54.560
[Speaker 2]: wow. Interesting. Maybe you can.

00:46:57.700 --> 00:46:58.200
I never tried. Maybe you can?

00:47:03.240 --> 00:47:03.640
No idea. The interesting thing that I never

00:47:05.860 --> 00:47:06.360
use is that floating windows.

00:47:09.520 --> 00:47:09.960
Never use floating windows,

00:47:13.480 --> 00:47:13.780
but normal windows. You know,

00:47:17.780 --> 00:47:18.160
not. And SoundWM does have a weird support

00:47:24.720 --> 00:47:25.220
for it. Now it works. But I don't like it.

00:47:26.680 --> 00:47:27.180
For me, it was a little bit rough,

00:47:29.480 --> 00:47:29.980
the use of floating windows in SoundWM.

00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:32.980
I think they're way better now.

00:47:36.580 --> 00:47:37.080
I think, but yeah, I don't use it so...

00:47:40.600 --> 00:47:41.100
But there is.

00:47:43.520 --> 00:47:43.940
[Speaker 4]: You know, for me with the,

00:47:45.060 --> 00:47:45.480
like, Emacs doing everything,

00:47:46.880 --> 00:47:47.380
it's like, you got like Emacs,

00:47:50.320 --> 00:47:50.740
you got shell, and then you got the gooey

00:47:56.520 --> 00:47:56.760
Wild West. Yeah. Like,

00:47:58.940 --> 00:47:59.440
with Emacs, I know, I'll generally get,

00:48:01.280 --> 00:48:01.780
oh, this is going to be configured in?

00:48:04.160 --> 00:48:04.660
It's either gonna be shell script,

00:48:06.180 --> 00:48:06.340
Python or Emacs. Oh wait,

00:48:07.000 --> 00:48:07.500
no, it's gonna be Emacs.

00:48:09.680 --> 00:48:10.180
Variable's gonna be written in SecQ,

00:48:10.380 --> 00:48:10.880
period.

00:48:16.640 --> 00:48:17.140
[Speaker 2]: Well, I don't use too much scripting,

00:48:18.260 --> 00:48:18.540
but I'd like to, for example,

00:48:21.540 --> 00:48:22.040
I had to do a, so the automatic installer

00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:26.500
for, for Debian base, Debian stuff for Linux

00:48:30.340 --> 00:48:30.840
for, for LEM. I was thinking of doing in bash

00:48:32.520 --> 00:48:33.020
and I say, I don't want to do it in Bash.

00:48:35.380 --> 00:48:35.880
So I just did it in SVC and Commodisp,

00:48:37.660 --> 00:48:38.100
which does have like a scripting feature.

00:48:40.920 --> 00:48:41.040
You can put a script and it will create your

00:48:41.160 --> 00:48:41.660
own script.

00:48:45.860 --> 00:48:46.280
[Speaker 4]: 1 of the main people behind Next,

00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:50.880
he did a talk on using Common Lisp as a

00:48:51.720 --> 00:48:52.220
replacement for a shell.

00:48:58.700 --> 00:48:59.200
[Speaker 2]: Yes, it was... I know him.

00:49:00.680 --> 00:49:01.180
I know that he exists.

00:49:04.600 --> 00:49:04.900
Next, I think it's a main maintainer of Nix,

00:49:09.140 --> 00:49:09.620
[Speaker 4]: Yeah, although his website's kind of,

00:49:10.380 --> 00:49:10.880
I think he took it down.

00:49:12.280 --> 00:49:12.780
[Speaker 2]: Ambrevar. Yeah, I think he,

00:49:14.480 --> 00:49:14.980
yeah, he took it down.

00:49:17.360 --> 00:49:17.680
[Speaker 4]: So if you want to, you can look at it in Time

00:49:17.680 --> 00:49:18.180
Machine.

00:49:23.940 --> 00:49:24.440
[Speaker 2]: Yeah, I do have that article in my bookmarks,

00:49:26.740 --> 00:49:27.240
I think, somewhere. I remember reading that.

00:49:30.360 --> 00:49:30.840
So also, I would like to keep separated

00:49:32.880 --> 00:49:33.380
things in that way to have shell and then

00:49:37.940 --> 00:49:38.440
Emacs or LEM. Like for Emacs I use Viter.

00:49:40.760 --> 00:49:41.260
I don't like that it has different,

00:49:41.760 --> 00:49:42.260
you know.

00:49:44.900 --> 00:49:45.060
[Speaker 4]: On the same time though,

00:49:46.960 --> 00:49:47.120
I also don't like my terminal not to be able

00:49:52.340 --> 00:49:52.600
to click URLs and I like I like my terminal

00:49:54.560 --> 00:49:55.060
to have history and you know to scroll

00:49:58.040 --> 00:49:58.200
position copy paste You can do some of that

00:50:00.020 --> 00:50:00.160
stuff, but you know how that stuff go on the

00:50:01.960 --> 00:50:02.080
killer ring I kind of view it as like an

00:50:02.800 --> 00:50:03.300
alternative to shell.

00:50:06.940 --> 00:50:07.080
[Speaker 2]: Fair enough, but I think when some for my

00:50:08.720 --> 00:50:09.220
terminal, I only use it for navigate,

00:50:11.280 --> 00:50:11.780
remove stuff, so basic stuff.

00:50:14.280 --> 00:50:14.640
When I have to like, I don't know,

00:50:17.640 --> 00:50:18.140
edit something, just open the...

00:50:22.120 --> 00:50:22.400
[Speaker 4]: I like to use completion and narrowing to

00:50:24.480 --> 00:50:24.720
find my files. I kind of wish I could do that

00:50:26.320 --> 00:50:26.600
[Speaker 0]: on the shell or like if you use

00:50:27.400 --> 00:50:27.640
[Speaker 4]: more D-Menu to do that.

00:50:28.440 --> 00:50:28.760
That would be, I'm sure,

00:50:28.760 --> 00:50:29.260
nicer.

00:50:38.140 --> 00:50:38.240
[Speaker 2]: There's a lot of tools for terminals to do

00:50:39.800 --> 00:50:39.880
that, right? But you have to configure all of

00:50:41.580 --> 00:50:41.780
them. Beam users are very aware of those

00:50:46.980 --> 00:50:47.300
tools. You know, having very good fuzzy

00:50:49.240 --> 00:50:49.440
finding of files and then all by the

00:50:53.680 --> 00:50:54.100
terminal. I do have a friend who is a user of

00:50:56.820 --> 00:50:57.320
the Forbidden Editor, he's good,

00:51:01.900 --> 00:51:02.400
that does have a lot of small,

00:51:09.480 --> 00:51:09.980
like fuzzy finding, and so complete commands,

00:51:12.240 --> 00:51:12.740
and call those images in the terminal,

00:51:14.300 --> 00:51:14.800
all sorts of crazy stuff.

00:51:16.120 --> 00:51:16.620
That I think are not overkill,

00:51:20.380 --> 00:51:20.560
but I mean, if you want to use it,

00:51:29.540 --> 00:51:30.040
go ahead. So yeah. The thing is that,

00:51:32.360 --> 00:51:32.860
So trickling back a little bit to LEM,

00:51:35.600 --> 00:51:35.860
I think an interesting thought that I have

00:51:37.280 --> 00:51:37.780
about LEM and I can do Emacs.

00:51:40.680 --> 00:51:41.180
Not now, because LEM is a very small,

00:51:43.740 --> 00:51:44.240
like literally people,

00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:46.500
at least developers and users,

00:51:50.280 --> 00:51:50.780
I don't know, maybe 10 less.

00:51:56.780 --> 00:51:57.280
But people may think, split the community,

00:51:58.740 --> 00:51:58.900
right? That's the main thing that should come

00:51:59.960 --> 00:52:00.460
to my mind, split the community,

00:52:01.840 --> 00:52:02.140
maybe you, because that's true.

00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:04.280
I mean, I'm not developing that much in Nui

00:52:06.260 --> 00:52:06.760
MacLisp because I'm developing them.

00:52:12.080 --> 00:52:12.580
That's not that I'm a force that you might

00:52:13.360 --> 00:52:13.860
think exists or anything,

00:52:17.220 --> 00:52:17.400
but you know, you're splitting a very small

00:52:21.600 --> 00:52:21.760
community. Not that LEM wants to do that or

00:52:24.160 --> 00:52:24.360
anything, or will be able to in any way,

00:52:25.280 --> 00:52:25.780
but you know what I mean.

00:52:32.360 --> 00:52:32.780
I thought about that, And I think it's an

00:52:40.600 --> 00:52:40.800
interesting concern. But that concern also

00:52:42.180 --> 00:52:42.680
stops innovation in some way.

00:52:46.960 --> 00:52:47.460
[Speaker 4]: I think you can, if you look at the example

00:52:50.200 --> 00:52:50.680
of how many EMAX talks are related to

00:52:54.760 --> 00:52:54.960
knowledge management and not all and like for

00:52:57.840 --> 00:52:58.100
instance denote and Orgrim don't really work

00:53:01.740 --> 00:53:01.880
together all that well they split the

00:53:03.740 --> 00:53:03.960
community so to say I don't think they make

00:53:04.720 --> 00:53:05.220
it weaker at all, though.

00:53:08.560 --> 00:53:08.800
I think you were saying competition is good,

00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:10.500
but yeah, competition is good.

00:53:12.100 --> 00:53:12.360
[Speaker 2]: Yeah, I agree on that.

00:53:13.280 --> 00:53:13.780
I want to put it in the...

00:53:15.400 --> 00:53:15.900
But, you know, I'm doing the devil's advocate

00:53:18.252 --> 00:53:18.271
[Speaker 0]: something, that's... The developer gates in

00:53:18.308 --> 00:53:18.327
this regard. Like

00:53:18.327 --> 00:53:18.346
[Speaker 2]: in this regard. If someone wants to say if

00:53:19.280 --> 00:53:19.780
someone wants to like say something that

00:53:22.920 --> 00:53:23.160
maybe, you know, because some people still

00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:30.940
remember the Emacs versus X Emacs thing in

00:53:34.860 --> 00:53:35.360
the past, you know, that the split of the and

00:53:38.100 --> 00:53:38.240
That was good in some way but also bad in

00:53:39.800 --> 00:53:39.960
others like the compatibility was a little

00:53:42.560 --> 00:53:43.040
bit of a hell You know at the end Emacs

00:53:46.160 --> 00:53:46.440
failed, no Emacs But at that time it wasn't

00:53:50.140 --> 00:53:50.500
that clear and some people like it wasn't

00:53:53.200 --> 00:53:53.360
there. And I can understand that kind of a

00:53:53.360 --> 00:53:53.860
feeling.

00:53:58.820 --> 00:53:59.040
[Speaker 4]: Well sometimes the steps forward you end up

00:54:02.640 --> 00:54:02.760
going Like you're on a hill and you want to

00:54:05.820 --> 00:54:06.000
[Speaker 0]: the way the path to get up to

00:54:06.440 --> 00:54:06.720
[Speaker 4]: get to a higher hill, but that higher hill

00:54:10.920 --> 00:54:11.280
goes down and up. It doesn't mean that even

00:54:12.240 --> 00:54:12.600
if you know you're going down,

00:54:13.840 --> 00:54:14.340
it doesn't mean that it was a mistake.

00:54:19.740 --> 00:54:20.020
[Speaker 2]: Okay, fair enough. And also another

00:54:22.120 --> 00:54:22.360
interesting thing that I want to envision in

00:54:25.520 --> 00:54:25.720
the future, if I have time or someone wants

00:54:28.400 --> 00:54:28.740
to help me with, is I want them to have

00:54:30.240 --> 00:54:30.740
different language for extension,

00:54:32.560 --> 00:54:33.060
different Lisp for extension,

00:54:36.340 --> 00:54:36.840
not only common Lisp, but Scheme closure.

00:54:39.680 --> 00:54:40.080
And maybe not EmacLisp probably,

00:54:46.500 --> 00:54:47.000
[Speaker 4]: that what Guile Emacs is trying to do?

00:54:47.860 --> 00:54:48.080
[Speaker 2]: but yeah. And funny enough- Isn't Guile Emacs

00:54:50.060 --> 00:54:50.560
tried to add Guile support to,

00:54:52.040 --> 00:54:52.540
but Guile is not scheme.

00:54:53.560 --> 00:54:53.800
Well, it's kind of scheme,

00:54:54.440 --> 00:54:54.940
but it's not all schemes,

00:54:58.580 --> 00:54:58.780
which is, you know, and it was just to

00:55:02.540 --> 00:55:03.040
replace EmacLisp with Gile.

00:55:06.940 --> 00:55:07.260
You have 2 both. It was similar in that way,

00:55:12.100 --> 00:55:12.340
but the thing is, Common Lisp does have a lot

00:55:12.900 --> 00:55:13.220
of interesting things.

00:55:16.120 --> 00:55:16.620
So someone wrote a closure in Common Lisp.

00:55:20.640 --> 00:55:21.140
Which is called Cloture.

00:55:29.720 --> 00:55:29.860
Someone wrote, well it's on the way but it's

00:55:35.440 --> 00:55:35.740
getting there, a standard scheme in Common

00:55:39.440 --> 00:55:39.940
Lisp. So to add support to LEM,

00:55:44.440 --> 00:55:44.940
will be as easy as import package,

00:55:46.360 --> 00:55:46.860
and you have, And if that language,

00:55:49.640 --> 00:55:50.060
which usually does, supports very well

00:55:51.740 --> 00:55:51.900
interaction between the host language and the

00:55:52.920 --> 00:55:53.420
language that tries to provide,

00:55:57.040 --> 00:55:57.180
you will mostly automatically have new

00:55:58.060 --> 00:55:58.560
language for the editor.

00:56:05.640 --> 00:56:06.100
[Speaker 4]: I think the more interesting hanging fruit

00:56:09.280 --> 00:56:09.780
would be like using Next to scrape websites,

00:56:12.500 --> 00:56:13.000
download CSV bank statements,

00:56:15.940 --> 00:56:16.440
integrating with like password managers and

00:56:27.880 --> 00:56:28.180
or using... yeah you could still do with

00:56:30.120 --> 00:56:30.620
[Speaker 2]: But isn't that more like next thing oh yeah

00:56:31.460 --> 00:56:31.580
yeah I

00:56:32.400 --> 00:56:32.520
[Speaker 4]: common list though mean what's your your

00:56:34.760 --> 00:56:35.260
other options would be Selenium,

00:56:41.200 --> 00:56:41.580
JavaScript, Next already gives you the REPL

00:56:47.940 --> 00:56:48.300
for that. Or when you had that Ambryvar talk,

00:56:50.060 --> 00:56:50.220
when he, I don't know if you watched it,

00:56:52.920 --> 00:56:53.420
but when you use a shell and a command takes

00:56:56.060 --> 00:56:56.200
takes a while It just automatically takes you

00:56:58.440 --> 00:56:58.580
back into your shell and says I'll just let

00:57:00.520 --> 00:57:00.800
this run in the background or being able to

00:57:02.760 --> 00:57:03.260
more easily run commands in parallel.

00:57:13.620 --> 00:57:13.880
[Speaker 2]: But that's not like Nix stuff,

00:57:18.740 --> 00:57:19.140
[Speaker 4]: The Ambrivar, the shell 1,

00:57:21.540 --> 00:57:21.900
[Speaker 2]: right? Not like? When he did it,

00:57:23.380 --> 00:57:23.580
he. Because 1

00:57:25.340 --> 00:57:25.440
[Speaker 4]: wasn't. of the things He did in that when he

00:57:30.040 --> 00:57:30.160
was using the repl in place of the shell is 1

00:57:31.240 --> 00:57:31.740
of the things in there was if,

00:57:33.720 --> 00:57:34.120
let's say you were compiling a program,

00:57:36.820 --> 00:57:37.040
that takes a while. If it took longer than

00:57:40.240 --> 00:57:40.440
like 3 seconds or something along those

00:57:42.560 --> 00:57:42.740
lines, it would kick you back into the shell

00:57:44.260 --> 00:57:44.660
and say, oh, we're waiting for this program

00:57:48.160 --> 00:57:48.380
[Speaker 2]: Oh, interesting. And

00:57:48.840 --> 00:57:49.340
[Speaker 4]: to run, to finish. then you could,

00:57:51.200 --> 00:57:51.600
and then it had back reference support.

00:57:55.260 --> 00:57:55.520
So you could say, Oh, app search for this

00:57:58.480 --> 00:57:58.820
program. And then with the,

00:58:00.780 --> 00:58:01.220
with the shell, I, when I want to search,

00:58:04.460 --> 00:58:04.640
I'll then grep through that list to narrow it

00:58:06.900 --> 00:58:07.180
down even further, but I do a whole new

00:58:08.400 --> 00:58:08.900
search. It just says, oh,

00:58:10.600 --> 00:58:11.100
just grep through what I already searched.

00:58:14.180 --> 00:58:14.680
Just grep through the results of the command

00:58:15.940 --> 00:58:16.440
that's 3 commands ago.

00:58:17.980 --> 00:58:18.180
[Speaker 2]: Interesting. So it

00:58:23.880 --> 00:58:24.380
[Speaker 4]: runs instantly. Or look for my build errors

00:58:25.840 --> 00:58:26.340
in my compilation output,

00:58:29.700 --> 00:58:30.060
[Speaker 0]: rather than trying to build it again grepping

00:58:30.360 --> 00:58:30.860
for the errors.

00:58:33.640 --> 00:58:34.120
[Speaker 2]: I was checking, so where's that project?

00:58:36.420 --> 00:58:36.920
I was looking for it. You know,

00:58:44.540 --> 00:58:45.040
the... Yeah, I want to check the,

00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:48.500
[Speaker 4]: There was a talk. I also had a webpage.

00:58:55.080 --> 00:58:55.580
[Speaker 2]: you know... This red bull?

00:58:58.260 --> 00:58:58.760
No, this is not what I meant.

00:59:34.174 --> 00:59:34.674
[Speaker 0]: What is it? What is it?

00:59:47.664 --> 00:59:48.164
I cannot find the... I was trying to find

00:59:54.180 --> 00:59:54.680
[Speaker 2]: the repo for... It's C-L-E-S-H,

00:59:59.640 --> 00:59:59.840
like a unit shell for interface with for

01:00:02.080 --> 01:00:02.580
common Lisp? Is that the thing?

01:00:09.000 --> 01:00:09.160
[Speaker 0]: I don't know. I'm

01:00:12.260 --> 01:00:12.760
[Speaker 4]: trying to find the link to his old,

01:00:16.560 --> 01:00:17.060
no longer website. Website.

01:00:21.500 --> 01:00:22.000
[Speaker 2]: Skip. Technical issues.

01:00:23.400 --> 01:00:23.900
Maybe this 1.

01:00:35.820 --> 01:00:36.320
I cannot find it.

01:00:37.800 --> 01:00:38.300
[Speaker 4]: I got it.

01:00:51.140 --> 01:00:51.640
[Speaker 0]: Go to that link. Okay.

01:01:02.020 --> 01:01:02.220
[Speaker 4]: There's also a FOSDM target associated with

01:01:02.380 --> 01:01:02.880
it too.

01:01:07.600 --> 01:01:08.100
[Speaker 2]: Oh yeah, interesting. Clash and CH.

01:01:13.520 --> 01:01:14.020
CH. Oh, I was looking at the clesh.

01:01:18.640 --> 01:01:19.140
Clish, so the, let's check for it.

01:01:23.560 --> 01:01:23.860
The other 1 is shell and camel.

01:01:24.120 --> 01:01:24.620
This 1.

01:01:37.505 --> 01:01:38.005
[Speaker 0]: Interesting. Oops. Close Oops.

01:01:40.900 --> 01:01:41.400
[Speaker 2]: Oh, it's a GNU project.

01:01:44.660 --> 01:01:45.160
Oh, interesting.

01:01:51.400 --> 01:01:51.680
[Speaker 4]: The other thing that was interesting there is

01:01:52.760 --> 01:01:53.260
you use those disk images,

01:02:00.140 --> 01:02:00.520
LISP images, to have some of your common LISP

01:02:05.920 --> 01:02:06.100
utilities or programming libraries that you

01:02:07.660 --> 01:02:08.040
utilize in tandem with your REPL.

01:02:13.700 --> 01:02:14.200
So you can easily pull up a more featureful

01:02:18.160 --> 01:02:18.400
or a REPL that has more tools in it than by

01:02:18.400 --> 01:02:18.900
default.

01:02:21.740 --> 01:02:22.240
[Speaker 2]: Interesting. So yeah, that's,

01:02:24.380 --> 01:02:24.880
yeah, I mean, that will be,

01:02:26.800 --> 01:02:27.100
it will be fairly, no,

01:02:28.700 --> 01:02:29.200
no, easy. Well, easy, but not,

01:02:33.080 --> 01:02:33.580
But this can be integrated into LEM probably.

01:02:36.060 --> 01:02:36.200
Very, you know, not that easy because you

01:02:38.520 --> 01:02:39.020
have to change the few things.

01:02:43.780 --> 01:02:44.280
But this can be, you know.

01:02:47.100 --> 01:02:47.600
[Speaker 4]: Well, as example, he just...

01:02:49.360 --> 01:02:49.860
Well, 1 of the things that was in the talk,

01:02:51.080 --> 01:02:51.300
1 of the main ideas was,

01:02:56.160 --> 01:02:56.380
let's just, rather than trying to make the

01:02:57.600 --> 01:02:58.040
shell closer to a REPL,

01:03:00.780 --> 01:03:01.280
let's make a REPL closer to a shell,

01:03:03.380 --> 01:03:03.760
make it to where we can easily run Linux

01:03:07.280 --> 01:03:07.420
programs in it, and then use the rest of the

01:03:10.120 --> 01:03:10.620
REPL goodness, make it to where parentheses

01:03:12.080 --> 01:03:12.580
are easy to use, like paraedit,

01:03:20.920 --> 01:03:21.420
And then all of a sudden you have a nicer

01:03:24.320 --> 01:03:24.640
shell. Not really shell,

01:03:24.640 --> 01:03:25.140
but.

01:03:30.020 --> 01:03:30.520
[Speaker 2]: Oh, this is huge.

01:03:33.520 --> 01:03:33.960
[Speaker 6]: Hi, folks. Sorry for the interruption.

01:03:35.200 --> 01:03:35.700
It's Leo from the general track.

01:03:39.380 --> 01:03:39.600
We are about to go back live on the

01:03:41.880 --> 01:03:42.040
development track, so you can continue the

01:03:43.080 --> 01:03:43.480
discussion. You know, we are recording

01:03:45.200 --> 01:03:45.360
everything and you seem to be having a great

01:03:47.520 --> 01:03:47.840
amount of fun to issue the need for lunch,

01:03:49.080 --> 01:03:49.580
at least for the people in the US.

01:03:51.160 --> 01:03:51.360
I just want to let you know,

01:03:53.680 --> 01:03:53.860
in 2 minutes' time, we will be moving back to

01:03:54.840 --> 01:03:55.340
the rest of the talk for the afternoon,

01:03:56.840 --> 01:03:57.040
but feel free to stay in a room and keep

01:03:57.760 --> 01:03:58.260
discussing. All right?

01:04:01.160 --> 01:04:01.660
[Speaker 2]: Thank you. All right.

01:04:03.640 --> 01:04:03.940
[Speaker 6]: It might be a little brutal in 2 minutes,

01:04:07.920 --> 01:04:08.240
so if you have your watch synchronized at 7

01:04:09.080 --> 01:04:09.520
sharps, so in 2 minutes,

01:04:10.040 --> 01:04:10.540
it'll cut off.

01:04:19.600 --> 01:04:20.100
[Speaker 2]: Okay. Bye-bye. Bye. Oh my.

01:04:23.860 --> 01:04:24.360
Yeah. Interesting stuff indeed.

01:04:29.380 --> 01:04:29.540
[Speaker 4]: to listen to it after you're done with the

01:04:32.380 --> 01:04:32.540
[Speaker 0]: I guess you have Have you

01:04:33.480 --> 01:04:33.980
[Speaker 4]: comp. ever listened to that talk before?

01:04:38.320 --> 01:04:38.800
The 1 that's in that webpage,

01:04:39.380 --> 01:04:39.880
the FOSDEM 1.

01:04:40.840 --> 01:04:41.340
[Speaker 2]: Which 1? Sorry? 0 yeah,

01:04:44.480 --> 01:04:44.980
I in fact saw him live in the FOSDEM 2020.

01:04:50.053 --> 01:04:50.091
[Speaker 0]: So I a little bit. 2020.

01:04:50.166 --> 01:04:50.204
So we him

01:04:51.760 --> 01:04:51.980
[Speaker 2]: talked with him a little bit The first time

01:04:55.760 --> 01:04:56.260
is here in well here in Europe here in

01:05:01.320 --> 01:05:01.440
Brussels like 3 hours away or 2 hours away in

01:05:02.320 --> 01:05:02.820
plane from where I am.

01:05:05.320 --> 01:05:05.800
[Speaker 0]: 1 of the things that's kind of interesting

01:05:06.900 --> 01:05:07.040
with, you have some of

01:05:09.060 --> 01:05:09.160
[Speaker 4]: the people who come from Europe to the US and

01:05:11.820 --> 01:05:11.980
they're like, oh, I want to visit all the

01:05:13.780 --> 01:05:14.060
corners of the US in a couple of days.

01:05:17.920 --> 01:05:18.420
And it's like, No, US is the size of Europe.

01:05:19.740 --> 01:05:19.960
[Speaker 0]: The

01:05:21.160 --> 01:05:21.660
[Speaker 4]: states are the size of their countries.

01:05:23.140 --> 01:05:23.400
You don't...

01:05:27.100 --> 01:05:27.600
[Speaker 2]: I know. I know. It's very...

01:05:30.660 --> 01:05:31.080
It's huge. And it's like 6 hours different

01:05:32.280 --> 01:05:32.780
from coast to coast, something like that.

01:05:38.000 --> 01:05:38.240
[Speaker 4]: Yeah, and that's driving as fast as you can

01:05:39.960 --> 01:05:40.140
on the freeway, on the best roads that you

01:05:41.160 --> 01:05:41.660
possibly can, not taking...

01:05:45.700 --> 01:05:46.200
[Speaker 2]: Yeah, that would be...

01:05:53.400 --> 01:05:53.900
So the thing that I try to do also with LEM

01:05:57.880 --> 01:05:58.140
is to move my workflow from LEM to Emax,

01:06:01.620 --> 01:06:02.120
so for Emax to LEM, use it more.

01:06:07.080 --> 01:06:07.580
And I hope to, we still have a long way to go

01:06:08.440 --> 01:06:08.940
in terms of usability,

01:06:10.600 --> 01:06:11.100
in terms of other things,

01:06:12.640 --> 01:06:13.140
because we need more power.

01:06:18.420 --> 01:06:18.620
So This is also my attempt to do some

01:06:20.320 --> 01:06:20.820
publicity to the Blend project itself,

01:06:23.100 --> 01:06:23.600
to need to add more users,

01:06:26.200 --> 01:06:26.700
to be willing to try and to fail trying,

01:06:29.640 --> 01:06:30.140
because we still have some rough edges.

01:06:38.320 --> 01:06:38.820
Yeah, just trying to do that,

01:06:41.720 --> 01:06:42.220
which is, and I apologize to the Emaclist

01:06:43.580 --> 01:06:43.740
community, which I'm part of,

01:06:44.660 --> 01:06:45.140
but I don't want to like,

01:06:47.020 --> 01:06:47.520
disencourage the use of getting Emacs anyway.

01:06:48.960 --> 01:06:49.460
I think both are awesome.

01:06:51.300 --> 01:06:51.800
I want to anyone to get a real impression.

01:06:57.040 --> 01:06:57.100
[Speaker 0]: What do

01:06:57.740 --> 01:06:58.240
[Speaker 2]: you think? PlasmaStrike,

01:07:01.560 --> 01:07:02.060
you have a very powerful name.

01:07:07.580 --> 01:07:07.840
[Speaker 4]: I don't think that's something to worry

01:07:09.660 --> 01:07:10.160
about. I don't personally,

01:07:15.380 --> 01:07:15.760
but I'm going to watch the EMMS talk.

01:07:17.360 --> 01:07:17.560
That's something that I don't really use too

01:07:20.800 --> 01:07:21.220
much on my Emacs config.

01:07:22.600 --> 01:07:23.100
So I'm going to let you go.

01:07:24.440 --> 01:07:24.720
[Speaker 2]: OK, yeah, I'm going to go.

01:07:26.320 --> 01:07:26.760
I'm going to maybe watch the garbage

01:07:27.800 --> 01:07:28.300
collector talk, which is interesting.

01:07:32.540 --> 01:07:33.040
So thank you all very much.

01:07:35.860 --> 01:07:36.080
I'm gonna go. Thanks for the questions and

01:07:40.811 --> 01:07:41.288
all that. I think I hope I answered correctly

01:07:47.040 --> 01:07:47.540
[Speaker 4]: is part of the value of being part of this is

01:07:50.580 --> 01:07:50.740
[Speaker 2]: all of them. Yeah, I figure this that's a way

01:07:52.540 --> 01:07:53.040
[Speaker 4]: conversations. So of saying thank you for

01:07:54.480 --> 01:07:54.980
people sharing interesting talks.

01:07:57.780 --> 01:07:57.940
[Speaker 2]: Indeed. Thank you all very much for going to

01:08:02.380 --> 01:08:02.880
the Emacs conf and to watch me.

01:08:06.440 --> 01:08:06.940
So thank you all very much.

01:08:09.360 --> 01:08:09.860
I'm going to go do that.

01:08:10.640 --> 01:08:10.890
[Speaker 0]: See you.