WEBVTT 00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:00.540 [Speaker 0]: Here. 00:00:05.140 --> 00:00:05.440 [Speaker 1]: All right. Yeah. So thanks, 00:00:06.279 --> 00:00:06.779 Fermin, for the great talk. 00:00:08.039 --> 00:00:08.540 People have questions, 00:00:12.179 --> 00:00:12.380 please post them on the pad or the IRC as 00:00:13.259 --> 00:00:13.759 well and we'll take them up. 00:00:17.240 --> 00:00:17.480 [Speaker 2]: Thank you very much. The guests will be here 00:00:21.720 --> 00:00:22.220 to answer questions. Let's see. 00:00:23.560 --> 00:00:24.060 Yep. 00:00:28.080 --> 00:00:28.220 [Speaker 1]: And also, Fermin, if you later want to 00:00:30.660 --> 00:00:31.160 clarify anything or fix any URLs or such, 00:00:32.860 --> 00:00:33.000 you're always welcome to do that either like 00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:36.140 on the Wiki page, or if you like email any of 00:00:37.560 --> 00:00:37.840 the organizers, they should be able to help 00:00:38.400 --> 00:00:38.900 with that as well. 00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:41.500 [Speaker 2]: Okay. Yeah, I put the wrong URL. 00:00:46.020 --> 00:00:46.360 Yeah, not a big deal really, 00:00:48.480 --> 00:00:48.980 if you look it up. Yeah, 00:00:50.940 --> 00:00:51.440 that's really better. Thank you very much. 00:00:56.920 --> 00:00:57.420 Checking, no questions. 00:00:58.780 --> 00:00:59.280 Very good to be in touch. 00:01:17.220 --> 00:01:17.360 [Speaker 1]: Oh, we have a question here in the big blue 00:01:17.720 --> 00:01:18.220 button chat. 00:01:21.820 --> 00:01:22.320 [Speaker 2]: Oh, public chat. I see. 00:01:26.380 --> 00:01:26.600 Is LEM an acronym? I think it is, 00:01:32.960 --> 00:01:33.080 but I never remember. The complete name is 00:01:36.160 --> 00:01:36.660 like something... It's also a circle, 00:01:38.940 --> 00:01:39.440 like, you know, a self-referencing, 00:01:41.320 --> 00:01:41.820 you know, recursive name. 00:01:42.900 --> 00:01:43.400 I never remember it, sorry. 00:01:45.860 --> 00:01:46.360 It's like... Yeah, someone... 00:01:50.580 --> 00:01:51.080 Okay, someone asked about the DEM community, 00:01:56.200 --> 00:01:56.700 how big it is. So I don't remember, 00:01:57.500 --> 00:01:57.720 to answer the question, 00:01:58.440 --> 00:01:58.740 I don't remember the acronym, 00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:01.140 but it is an acronym. I just never... 00:02:04.700 --> 00:02:05.060 And it's not written anywhere, 00:02:06.380 --> 00:02:06.880 I think, or someone... 00:02:09.340 --> 00:02:09.840 I never check it. So I... 00:02:12.720 --> 00:02:13.220 [Speaker 0]: I forgot. 00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:15.820 [Speaker 2]: My maintainer told me once and then So, 00:02:17.540 --> 00:02:17.900 whole large, does Leia have a package 00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:20.300 manager? We do have a package manager, 00:02:21.900 --> 00:02:22.400 funnily enough. We use the QuickLisp 00:02:26.200 --> 00:02:26.700 infrastructure to get packages, 00:02:29.580 --> 00:02:30.080 so it's very easy to install packages. 00:02:33.340 --> 00:02:33.840 So basically, we don't have a package manager 00:02:35.740 --> 00:02:36.240 as in Emacs, half a packet.l. 00:02:39.140 --> 00:02:39.400 We're using the same common list 00:02:41.180 --> 00:02:41.460 infrastructure to provide the different 00:02:45.560 --> 00:02:46.060 packages. We also have a talk with the 00:02:47.360 --> 00:02:47.620 Ultralisp, which is like a, 00:02:48.640 --> 00:02:48.900 you know, QuickLisp is like, 00:02:50.020 --> 00:02:50.520 you can think quickly of Melpa. 00:02:52.540 --> 00:02:53.040 Ultralisp is like a fast Melpa, 00:02:54.440 --> 00:02:54.900 very fast Melpa, that every, 00:02:58.460 --> 00:02:58.660 I think every day you can get a package from 00:03:01.720 --> 00:03:01.880 them. And We have a tag system that you can 00:03:02.920 --> 00:03:03.420 submit a package and get a tag, 00:03:08.180 --> 00:03:08.360 and Theory can download those packages with 00:03:13.140 --> 00:03:13.640 the lem tag. So the thing is, 00:03:17.040 --> 00:03:17.440 it's not yet, it doesn't have a user 00:03:18.400 --> 00:03:18.900 interface to install packages. 00:03:22.020 --> 00:03:22.520 Still, it's 2 external packages. 00:03:25.520 --> 00:03:25.920 For now, imagine this is like the early 00:03:27.560 --> 00:03:27.960 Emacs, right? Everything is going to the core 00:03:29.040 --> 00:03:29.540 for now, because we need that functionality. 00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:32.680 In the future, we probably will split it up 00:03:37.120 --> 00:03:37.620 way more. But let me first answer a question 00:03:42.440 --> 00:03:42.740 in the other part. How large is the LEN 00:03:44.440 --> 00:03:44.720 community? Hope it's a chance of survival 00:03:47.360 --> 00:03:47.860 long term. So we are a very small community, 00:03:51.260 --> 00:03:51.760 mostly because Sasaki-san, 00:03:54.120 --> 00:03:54.620 the main developers of the community, 00:03:57.160 --> 00:03:57.440 are from Japan and some of them, 00:03:58.620 --> 00:03:59.120 or most of them, don't know English. 00:04:01.640 --> 00:04:01.960 At the beginning, LEM was a very 00:04:05.020 --> 00:04:05.220 Japanese-centric tooling because barrier of 00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:07.460 language, most of the users are from Japan. 00:04:08.640 --> 00:04:09.140 So different communities. 00:04:12.040 --> 00:04:12.260 And also, I don't know why, 00:04:13.100 --> 00:04:13.520 but the main maintainer, 00:04:17.740 --> 00:04:18.079 which is Asaki-san, very good guy and a very, 00:04:19.079 --> 00:04:19.579 very talented developer. 00:04:21.779 --> 00:04:22.280 He doesn't like to, you know, 00:04:24.640 --> 00:04:25.020 at first the project was all in Japanese, 00:04:27.100 --> 00:04:27.260 so he doesn't care if someone uses the 00:04:28.520 --> 00:04:29.020 project or not. He's more focused on the, 00:04:32.080 --> 00:04:32.560 I guess, quality of the features of it. 00:04:35.740 --> 00:04:36.240 So that creates a problem that doesn't really 00:04:38.680 --> 00:04:39.000 mind the community. So the community doesn't 00:04:41.640 --> 00:04:41.760 mind in a good way. It's to focus more on 00:04:43.440 --> 00:04:43.940 technicality rather than the user, 00:04:46.300 --> 00:04:46.800 which I mean, I cannot blame him. 00:04:49.540 --> 00:04:49.700 It's very hard work to build an Emacs and 00:04:52.540 --> 00:04:53.040 editor from scratch. It's not a trivial task. 00:04:56.160 --> 00:04:56.660 So yeah, we're a very small community. 00:04:58.660 --> 00:04:58.940 But I think the chance of survival is very 00:05:01.440 --> 00:05:01.640 good because LEM is written in ANSI Common 00:05:04.540 --> 00:05:05.040 Lisp, so it should be used in any... 00:05:07.440 --> 00:05:07.940 Well, it works in a lot of Common Lisp 00:05:10.400 --> 00:05:10.900 implementation. For people who don't know, 00:05:12.180 --> 00:05:12.400 Common Lisp is a language that was 00:05:13.140 --> 00:05:13.640 standardized in the 94. 00:05:14.640 --> 00:05:14.840 I explained that in the talk, 00:05:15.660 --> 00:05:16.160 but I'll say it again. 00:05:18.080 --> 00:05:18.580 So, if Common Lisp exists, 00:05:21.200 --> 00:05:21.700 in theory, LEM should also exist. 00:05:24.340 --> 00:05:24.840 And also if nCursor doesn't break or doesn't 00:05:27.560 --> 00:05:28.060 stop to exist, which is even less likely. 00:05:30.400 --> 00:05:30.900 So that's the main idea. 00:05:33.460 --> 00:05:33.740 And you can use LEM for very good Common Lisp 00:05:36.380 --> 00:05:36.600 development already. If Common Lisp doesn't 00:05:39.440 --> 00:05:39.940 change that much, it should disappear. 00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:43.220 We are not bound to any company or any... 00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:46.540 Even Sasaki-san, God forbid, 00:05:47.720 --> 00:05:48.220 disappears instantaneously. 00:05:50.280 --> 00:05:50.740 There are a few people, 00:05:52.260 --> 00:05:52.440 me included, that know very well the code 00:05:54.020 --> 00:05:54.520 base and we can continue the development. 00:05:56.320 --> 00:05:56.720 So it's not like 1, there's no one-man 00:05:58.860 --> 00:05:59.360 project. Maybe a four-man project or 5, 00:06:04.280 --> 00:06:04.640 but not 1. Okay, I'll answer the 1 in the 00:06:08.100 --> 00:06:08.600 chat, on the blue button. 00:06:10.520 --> 00:06:10.840 Is it best to learn Common Lisp before 00:06:13.100 --> 00:06:13.600 learning to use LEM? I think this is similar 00:06:15.780 --> 00:06:16.280 to Emacs and EmacLisp, 00:06:18.740 --> 00:06:19.080 right? Should you use EmacLisp before using 00:06:20.160 --> 00:06:20.460 Emacs? Doesn't make too much sense, 00:06:23.360 --> 00:06:23.860 right? You see Emacs and then you go learning 00:06:28.620 --> 00:06:29.060 Common Lisp. I think it's the same, 00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:31.300 sorry, EmacsLisp. And it's the same with LEM. 00:06:32.800 --> 00:06:33.300 You can start using LEM with a non-common 00:06:37.800 --> 00:06:38.040 Lisp, which is fine. You can use it to edit 00:06:39.020 --> 00:06:39.520 your things. It's like an editor. 00:06:42.900 --> 00:06:43.040 But like Emacs, LEM puts a lot of focus on 00:06:46.820 --> 00:06:46.960 extensibility. So it's very probable that you 00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:50.420 will learn how to write Common Lisp. 00:06:53.440 --> 00:06:53.600 I have to say that a lot of people that use 00:06:56.000 --> 00:06:56.440 LEM, well, me and most of the people, 00:06:59.060 --> 00:06:59.440 come from Emacs. So if you come from Emacs 00:07:00.620 --> 00:07:01.120 and you know a little bit of Emac Lisp, 00:07:04.820 --> 00:07:05.320 Common Lisp is like an uncle or cousin 00:07:07.120 --> 00:07:07.620 distance that shares some similarities. 00:07:09.820 --> 00:07:10.020 So you will... Well, it's not going to be 00:07:12.520 --> 00:07:13.020 that. I can show... Sorry about that. 00:07:14.960 --> 00:07:15.460 For example, I show that in the... 00:07:21.780 --> 00:07:22.280 I can show... So the... 00:07:27.080 --> 00:07:27.540 It's not that different from Emacs regarding 00:07:28.940 --> 00:07:29.440 configuration. So for example, 00:07:31.020 --> 00:07:31.520 this command doesn't exist on LEM. 00:07:35.020 --> 00:07:35.520 And Sasaki-san didn't want to copy one-to-one 00:07:36.360 --> 00:07:36.860 the command from Emacs, 00:07:39.660 --> 00:07:39.860 the airgrip, the cursor grip command of 00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:41.620 Emacs. And I said, okay, 00:07:43.080 --> 00:07:43.440 then I'm going to implement it myself. 00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:44.740 And it's something like this, 00:07:47.960 --> 00:07:48.080 which is you will do something similar to 00:07:50.320 --> 00:07:50.500 Emacs, right? This will be like things at 00:07:52.280 --> 00:07:52.780 point symbol or something like that. 00:07:54.740 --> 00:07:55.240 And then you have a prompt, 00:07:59.060 --> 00:07:59.440 very prompt for directory with Emacs would be 00:08:01.260 --> 00:08:01.560 something similar. And then you then launch 00:08:02.960 --> 00:08:03.460 grep with the command that you want. 00:08:06.340 --> 00:08:06.780 This is not that far from Emacs, 00:08:10.680 --> 00:08:10.840 this, really. If you don't know neither of 00:08:12.740 --> 00:08:13.240 those, you can still use LEM, 00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:17.060 though as with Emacs, extensibility will be, 00:08:22.440 --> 00:08:22.760 well, you couldn't extend it if you don't 00:08:28.700 --> 00:08:29.100 know combo disp. Should I answer the question 00:08:33.280 --> 00:08:33.780 on the etherpad writing it at the same time? 00:08:36.580 --> 00:08:36.760 [Speaker 1]: You're welcome to, but you don't have to. 00:08:38.000 --> 00:08:38.500 You can just answer here on stream, 00:08:40.440 --> 00:08:40.940 [Speaker 2]: on the Google button. Okay. 00:08:43.140 --> 00:08:43.640 Okay. Are there any Lisp machine capabilities 00:08:45.020 --> 00:08:45.280 you're trying to provide that GNU image 00:08:46.920 --> 00:08:47.040 lacks? The type objects capability in the 00:08:47.560 --> 00:08:48.060 editor, as an example. 00:08:53.840 --> 00:08:54.340 I mean, there were a few discussions about 00:08:59.920 --> 00:09:00.060 the Lisp machines and LEM and all the big 00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:03.280 projects that tries to get some capability of 00:09:05.180 --> 00:09:05.680 it. But we don't really... 00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:10.340 We try to improve the development experience 00:09:12.800 --> 00:09:13.300 for Common Lisp and for LEM, 00:09:18.460 --> 00:09:18.660 imitating a lot of things that the Lisp 00:09:21.560 --> 00:09:22.060 machine had. I'm going to try to do a thing 00:09:23.400 --> 00:09:23.900 that I don't know if it's going to work. 00:09:26.880 --> 00:09:27.380 So to explain this, let's see. 00:09:35.680 --> 00:09:36.180 I'm going to recompile them now live. 00:09:42.040 --> 00:09:42.540 Let's see how it works. 00:09:47.860 --> 00:09:48.240 And compiling the, yes, 00:09:51.780 --> 00:09:52.280 it doesn't work. OK. What if I do? 00:09:53.900 --> 00:09:54.220 No, it doesn't work. OK. 00:09:55.280 --> 00:09:55.760 I was trying to compile the SDL2, 00:09:57.540 --> 00:09:58.040 but I do have the codebase modifier. 00:10:00.360 --> 00:10:00.860 I should be able to compile this. 00:10:05.640 --> 00:10:06.140 Oh, that was really bad. 00:10:13.320 --> 00:10:13.580 What about example? I have the code base, 00:10:17.220 --> 00:10:17.720 so let me check. I'm going to do this. 00:10:19.080 --> 00:10:19.580 Oh, yeah, I have this modified. 00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:31.620 I stash this. OK. I have this modified. 00:10:33.280 --> 00:10:33.780 Now it should work. OK. 00:10:42.480 --> 00:10:42.820 Sorry. I was going to show the writing 00:10:45.620 --> 00:10:45.900 capabilities of it, similar to the Lisp 00:10:47.800 --> 00:10:48.300 machine of navigating of classes. 00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:52.500 So the answer of that question is, 00:10:57.040 --> 00:10:57.180 not really. We don't try to emulate this 00:10:58.440 --> 00:10:58.940 machine, nor any like of that. 00:11:05.500 --> 00:11:06.000 But yeah. Let me, I'm going to try to, 00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:07.620 okay, now I'm back at them. 00:11:12.180 --> 00:11:12.500 Okay. So what about using them for things 00:11:13.260 --> 00:11:13.760 other than common, common, 00:11:16.160 --> 00:11:16.500 that markets? Okay. So yes, 00:11:18.280 --> 00:11:18.480 we do have, so I'm going to show the code 00:11:20.280 --> 00:11:20.780 base a little bit. Like I said before, 00:11:25.120 --> 00:11:25.600 we don't have yet too much external packages 00:11:26.500 --> 00:11:27.000 because of the size of the community. 00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:30.940 I have a question. Go ahead, 00:11:32.160 --> 00:11:32.660 you can write it, Michael. 00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:38.300 Yeah. So, yes, as you can see here, 00:11:43.900 --> 00:11:44.340 this is almost all, or 99% of the major modes 00:11:46.160 --> 00:11:46.620 we have. We use the same terminology of 00:11:47.640 --> 00:11:48.140 SkinnyMemax in that way. 00:11:49.120 --> 00:11:49.440 For example, the C mode, 00:11:51.460 --> 00:11:51.580 if you go inside, you see that this is the 00:11:53.600 --> 00:11:53.980 fine major mode. So in that regard, 00:11:54.800 --> 00:11:55.300 it's very similar to Emacs. 00:11:56.600 --> 00:11:57.100 And we have something called a JIT, 00:11:58.320 --> 00:11:58.820 which is like a maggot. 00:12:00.280 --> 00:12:00.780 And you can edit files. 00:12:02.500 --> 00:12:02.980 You can use not only for common lists. 00:12:06.820 --> 00:12:07.320 In my configuration, which is written, 00:12:11.140 --> 00:12:11.640 I will post that later, 00:12:15.480 --> 00:12:15.640 but if you go to my code burg you can see my 00:12:16.460 --> 00:12:16.960 configuration which is, 00:12:20.460 --> 00:12:20.640 which I do have. So for example you can use 00:12:22.260 --> 00:12:22.760 it for a scheme. We have a swank server. 00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:24.340 This is the configuration to use it. 00:12:25.900 --> 00:12:26.040 You can use it for JavaScript because we have 00:12:28.180 --> 00:12:28.680 a native LSP client written in. 00:12:29.540 --> 00:12:29.800 And we have Dired. Yeah, 00:12:33.820 --> 00:12:34.320 this is Dired. We have Dired indeed. 00:12:35.560 --> 00:12:35.740 No, it's not Dired, you know. 00:12:36.260 --> 00:12:36.760 It's called directory. 00:12:38.860 --> 00:12:39.360 Sasaki-san, which is the main maintainer, 00:12:43.100 --> 00:12:43.600 doesn't like to copy one-to-one Emacs names, 00:12:48.700 --> 00:12:49.200 but we are the same. We also have projects, 00:12:51.780 --> 00:12:52.280 which is like projectile. 00:12:55.120 --> 00:12:55.240 So, you know, they're very similar but not 00:12:56.940 --> 00:12:57.440 the same. We also have a VI configuration, 00:12:59.220 --> 00:12:59.380 as you can see. I'm using the VI commands and 00:13:00.100 --> 00:13:00.600 stuff, and it's very good. 00:13:03.940 --> 00:13:04.120 I will say not as good as an evil because it 00:13:06.680 --> 00:13:07.180 still needs some polish, 00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:08.500 but it's getting there. 00:13:13.780 --> 00:13:13.860 So we can also program in JavaScript and a 00:13:16.160 --> 00:13:16.660 lot of LSP things, and Elixir, 00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:19.100 which was recently added by myself. 00:13:21.580 --> 00:13:22.080 And yeah, it's very fun to add new modes. 00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:27.940 OK, what else next? What about user-level 00:13:28.440 --> 00:13:28.940 things other than coding? 00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:31.880 What about using this in conjunction with 00:13:34.340 --> 00:13:34.840 Nix? Oh, so there's a big, 00:13:36.980 --> 00:13:37.480 so like I said before, 00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:40.200 there were like an issue that 3 main common 00:13:40.960 --> 00:13:41.460 list project were talking, 00:13:46.920 --> 00:13:47.420 some of the users. So the 3 main projects are 00:13:49.340 --> 00:13:49.840 LEM, probably, Nixed, and then StamWM, 00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:53.000 the 3 main, well, 3 big, 00:13:55.280 --> 00:13:55.440 common list projects that are trying to 00:13:57.720 --> 00:13:58.040 emulate an Emacs experience in different 00:14:00.100 --> 00:14:00.340 fields. 1 is Editor, the other 1 is Window 00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:02.220 Manager, and the 1 is the browser. 00:14:06.560 --> 00:14:06.820 The problem is that the design of the 3 are 00:14:11.680 --> 00:14:11.960 very different. So Nix is very focused on the 00:14:14.900 --> 00:14:15.060 browser. You can connect to Nix. 00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:16.920 So given that they're both a common list, 00:14:18.940 --> 00:14:19.160 you can connect to Nix from them and vice 00:14:21.420 --> 00:14:21.600 versa. And you can send commands and you can, 00:14:22.580 --> 00:14:23.080 so you have this kind of interoperability 00:14:31.420 --> 00:14:31.580 with both. But no, you cannot combine both to 00:14:35.280 --> 00:14:35.780 have 1 LEMNIX. That would be very sick. 00:14:39.400 --> 00:14:39.600 I would love it. But the effort is just too 00:14:41.000 --> 00:14:41.280 much. Keep in mind we are a very small 00:14:44.960 --> 00:14:45.060 community. The LEM, like I said, 00:14:49.920 --> 00:14:50.140 we are like 345 developers that write 00:14:51.880 --> 00:14:52.380 packages and answer questions and stuff. 00:14:55.380 --> 00:14:55.880 Now we need users in that way to test things. 00:14:58.480 --> 00:14:58.820 So what is the license of LEM? 00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:00.980 The license of LEM is MAT. 00:15:02.860 --> 00:15:03.180 We have some components of all the various 00:15:04.480 --> 00:15:04.980 licenses, but the main 1 is MAT. 00:15:07.160 --> 00:15:07.660 I didn't choose the license of it. 00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:11.820 I would highly prefer a more like GPL 1, 00:15:13.500 --> 00:15:14.000 but like I said I'm not a maintainer, 00:15:15.860 --> 00:15:16.360 so the license is MAT. 00:15:19.820 --> 00:15:20.320 This question, I realize, 00:15:22.120 --> 00:15:22.200 how far is LEM from being able to remove a 00:15:26.500 --> 00:15:26.940 list libraries? OK, that's a big question 00:15:30.660 --> 00:15:30.920 indeed. And Funny enough, 00:15:31.800 --> 00:15:32.300 2 years ago in the EmacsConf, 00:15:34.340 --> 00:15:34.700 I talk about this, not with LEM, 00:15:36.340 --> 00:15:36.480 but with Common Lisp and Emacs Lisp in 00:15:41.880 --> 00:15:42.100 general. So I'm not the only 1 thinking about 00:15:44.100 --> 00:15:44.240 this. In fact, I'm talking with someone that 00:15:46.740 --> 00:15:46.960 is trying to write like a Emacs Lisp 00:15:48.120 --> 00:15:48.620 interpreter to work with them. 00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:52.740 The thing is that Emaclist libraries, 00:15:55.080 --> 00:15:55.580 so the API is just very different. 00:15:57.720 --> 00:15:58.220 That's the main problem. 00:15:58.940 --> 00:15:59.440 That's really the problem. 00:16:02.320 --> 00:16:02.820 You can, so you can, let me see. 00:16:13.380 --> 00:16:13.880 So, you can have an Emacs list buffer of LEM. 00:16:15.420 --> 00:16:15.920 This is an Emacs list rebel. 00:16:21.380 --> 00:16:21.560 I wrote an LRSP client so you can connect to 00:16:23.140 --> 00:16:23.560 Emacs and send things and stuff. 00:16:25.160 --> 00:16:25.660 So you're friends that we share stuff. 00:16:28.340 --> 00:16:28.840 But having a complete Emacless implementation 00:16:37.400 --> 00:16:37.600 with LEM and work with both API will be a 00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:42.600 huge work. Very like, it's even if they share 00:16:43.680 --> 00:16:44.180 very similar thing, in fact, 00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:46.980 API in some places is very similar. 00:16:48.540 --> 00:16:49.040 Down the line infrastructure, 00:16:52.220 --> 00:16:52.720 so the code is, so it's completely different. 00:16:56.680 --> 00:16:56.840 It will be very hard. We do have a clone of 00:16:58.940 --> 00:16:59.440 maggot that works, more or less. 00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:01.940 Well, it does work, but maggot's just better. 00:17:03.340 --> 00:17:03.820 But it's getting there. 00:17:05.020 --> 00:17:05.460 So like I said, we're trying to, 00:17:06.220 --> 00:17:06.720 not to copy one-to-one, 00:17:09.640 --> 00:17:10.140 but to adapting each tool to LEM. 00:17:13.260 --> 00:17:13.760 How are LEM buffer designs similar to Emacs? 00:17:19.700 --> 00:17:20.020 So yeah, that would be, 00:17:21.260 --> 00:17:21.760 so how a blend buffer design, 00:17:24.780 --> 00:17:25.280 similar to Emacs. So similar in what way, 00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:26.819 actually with properties. 00:17:29.180 --> 00:17:29.480 I think that you've seen, 00:17:31.220 --> 00:17:31.560 so you do have like a font lock, 00:17:32.420 --> 00:17:32.920 different kind of properties, 00:17:37.820 --> 00:17:38.040 but it's not exactly how Emac does it with 00:17:41.740 --> 00:17:42.180 overlays and stuff. You can, 00:17:43.080 --> 00:17:43.580 so if you're very interested, 00:17:45.300 --> 00:17:45.800 I don't want to go too much deep into the, 00:17:51.500 --> 00:17:51.720 let me go to, I don't want to go too much 00:17:55.380 --> 00:17:55.760 deep into the technicality of things now, 00:17:57.920 --> 00:17:58.080 but you can go. So LEM is written 100% in 00:18:00.040 --> 00:18:00.380 Common Lisp. So if you know Common Lisp, 00:18:03.900 --> 00:18:04.040 you can go to buffer. You can check all the 00:18:08.520 --> 00:18:09.020 codes here. Always we have, 00:18:12.780 --> 00:18:13.280 we also have this, which is like StreamX. 00:18:17.860 --> 00:18:18.360 Sorry to that, I don't. 00:18:21.900 --> 00:18:22.400 But yeah, So you can see. 00:18:24.440 --> 00:18:24.940 So yeah, if you go to the code base, 00:18:26.780 --> 00:18:27.280 maybe some of you can check this problem. 00:18:28.500 --> 00:18:29.000 Well, not problem, but yeah. 00:18:30.340 --> 00:18:30.840 That's this Japanese comment. 00:18:35.560 --> 00:18:36.060 You can see here why it's very, 00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:38.300 you have to translate and stuff, 00:18:39.560 --> 00:18:40.060 which is sometimes a little bit annoying. 00:18:44.540 --> 00:18:45.040 But yeah, some of them are in English. 00:18:47.020 --> 00:18:47.440 So this play is not the same. 00:18:48.800 --> 00:18:49.200 So if you're interested, 00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:51.400 you can go to the buffer and check it out for 00:18:53.480 --> 00:18:53.600 yourself. But I think it uses the overlay in 00:18:58.620 --> 00:18:58.900 a different way. So the implementation is 00:19:04.800 --> 00:19:05.020 different that way. Oh, 00:19:10.875 --> 00:19:11.375 [Speaker 0]: This module. Oh, this is very low. 00:19:12.560 --> 00:19:13.060 [Speaker 2]: this is fairly low. What other things or 00:19:15.559 --> 00:19:15.600 experiences that I can show you? 00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:16.420 Just like you show you. 00:19:18.120 --> 00:19:18.620 Any marks? 00:19:32.860 --> 00:19:33.360 Okay, very interesting question. 00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:34.500 What are the things... 00:19:37.460 --> 00:19:37.960 So that's interesting. 00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:43.220 Let me see. So forgive me, 00:19:49.660 --> 00:19:49.760 you answered this. I talked briefly in the 00:19:53.560 --> 00:19:53.780 talk about this, but basically I like 00:19:55.840 --> 00:19:56.340 Komaldisp, I have the mascot here. 00:19:58.040 --> 00:19:58.540 [Speaker 3]: a very 00:20:04.740 --> 00:20:04.840 [Speaker 2]: It's Italian thing. I like Common Lisp and I 00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:08.800 think GmagLisp is a very good friend of 00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:10.520 Common Lisp in the way that Serious Software 00:20:11.840 --> 00:20:12.340 Analysis is a very good uncle. 00:20:18.800 --> 00:20:19.300 Let me answer first the 1. 00:20:24.140 --> 00:20:24.620 So I like to extend it in Common Lisp. 00:20:25.640 --> 00:20:26.140 I like the Common Lisp libraries. 00:20:30.100 --> 00:20:30.360 And I think them have a better design in 00:20:31.220 --> 00:20:31.720 terms of its 1 language, 00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:33.980 which I think is a nice strength. 00:20:36.580 --> 00:20:36.660 Like, 1 of the things that put me off when I 00:20:38.680 --> 00:20:39.020 was using Emacs, I love to extend the editor 00:20:40.600 --> 00:20:41.100 and to go inside and stuff. 00:20:43.360 --> 00:20:43.520 And 1 of the things that I'm not a big fan of 00:20:44.820 --> 00:20:45.020 C. If you're a fan of C, 00:20:47.040 --> 00:20:47.240 you will be very pleasant with finding C 00:20:50.440 --> 00:20:50.660 stuff, but I don't. So when I'm trying to 00:20:52.340 --> 00:20:52.840 hack an Emacs and go inside the things, 00:20:54.140 --> 00:20:54.640 I will control C code. 00:20:56.200 --> 00:20:56.660 That's not that interactive as the Emaclist 00:20:59.340 --> 00:20:59.840 1, and that would be like a fuzzball for me. 00:21:03.740 --> 00:21:04.080 I was always dreaming about that stuff, 00:21:05.320 --> 00:21:05.820 having like everything in 1 language. 00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:08.160 The thing that LEM does to me is like it 00:21:12.100 --> 00:21:12.560 allows me to extend the editor to modify 00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:14.660 also, to modify in Common Lisp. 00:21:17.660 --> 00:21:18.160 Also, I like the language and technology. 00:21:19.600 --> 00:21:19.900 It's a bold thing, right? 00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:21.980 It's a world language that I love, 00:21:23.740 --> 00:21:24.240 and Emacs that I love. 00:21:25.380 --> 00:21:25.880 Emacs, I'm a big fan of, 00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:27.520 or a user of GNU Emacs. 00:21:29.380 --> 00:21:29.880 And LEM is like Emacs plus Common Lisp, 00:21:30.600 --> 00:21:30.900 but with a different design. 00:21:32.360 --> 00:21:32.860 I don't want to, It's not a clone. 00:21:37.800 --> 00:21:38.040 I want to get this very clear that LEM is not 00:21:40.760 --> 00:21:41.140 a clone of Emacs. The sign is very different 00:21:43.180 --> 00:21:43.500 in a lot of ways. But it's very inspired, 00:21:44.380 --> 00:21:44.880 and that cannot be denied. 00:21:48.280 --> 00:21:48.780 [Speaker 1]: I can jump in for a second. 00:21:51.120 --> 00:21:51.360 I think we're like 15 minutes into the lunch 00:21:52.660 --> 00:21:53.040 break, but you're welcome to continue 00:21:55.600 --> 00:21:55.760 answering questions. But if anyone on the 00:21:57.500 --> 00:21:58.000 stream or folks want to go grab lunch, 00:21:59.760 --> 00:21:59.860 feel free to do that. I'm probably going to 00:22:01.880 --> 00:22:02.040 do that as well. But yeah, 00:22:03.760 --> 00:22:03.920 we can either continue keeping this on the 00:22:06.180 --> 00:22:06.440 stream, or if people would like to come join 00:22:08.600 --> 00:22:09.100 here on BigBlueButton and talk to Fermin, 00:22:11.040 --> 00:22:11.540 like folks have already done that, 00:22:12.440 --> 00:22:12.940 yeah, you're welcome to. 00:22:14.620 --> 00:22:15.120 [Speaker 2]: Yeah, go ahead. No problem. 00:22:16.500 --> 00:22:17.000 Thank you. Thank you, Vitaliy. 00:22:25.160 --> 00:22:25.280 Cheers. Cheers. So finishing the answer to 00:22:30.080 --> 00:22:30.380 the question, I think LEM does tries to fix 00:22:31.880 --> 00:22:32.380 some Emacs problems, can we fix problems 00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:35.700 regarding the internal API, 00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:37.480 which makes sense, right? 00:22:39.060 --> 00:22:39.560 Emacs have like 40 years, 00:22:42.280 --> 00:22:42.780 which is a lot. And yeah, 00:22:44.760 --> 00:22:45.060 which is, that's what makes me happy. 00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:47.720 I use both now. I use Maggis and Emacs for 00:22:50.200 --> 00:22:50.460 some languages and then I use LEM for Common 00:22:51.100 --> 00:22:51.600 Lisp and other languages. 00:22:55.240 --> 00:22:55.740 You can also use LEM for EmacLisp, 00:22:59.760 --> 00:22:59.960 which makes LEM the second best editor for 00:23:02.360 --> 00:23:02.860 EmacLisp. It was a funny thing to do. 00:23:05.980 --> 00:23:06.100 OK, so do you think LEM will continue to have 00:23:06.760 --> 00:23:07.260 a lot of Japanese documentation? 00:23:11.720 --> 00:23:12.180 So there's not that many Japanese 00:23:12.780 --> 00:23:13.280 documentation, really. 00:23:18.280 --> 00:23:18.480 So there's a few comments here and there, 00:23:20.800 --> 00:23:20.920 but it's not full. We have a web page with a 00:23:22.020 --> 00:23:22.520 lot of documentation in English. 00:23:25.380 --> 00:23:25.880 So you can take a look at that. 00:23:29.080 --> 00:23:29.580 But we do have to improve the documentation 00:23:30.260 --> 00:23:30.760 and translate it to English. 00:23:32.220 --> 00:23:32.440 Sasaki-san is up to it, 00:23:35.460 --> 00:23:35.960 but he just doesn't feel that comfortable 00:23:36.600 --> 00:23:37.100 translating it himself. 00:23:38.680 --> 00:23:39.180 So yeah. 00:23:42.720 --> 00:23:43.220 [Speaker 3]: So, this is Peter on BigBlueWem. 00:23:49.620 --> 00:23:50.120 Yeah, it's neat that Wem even exists, 00:23:55.520 --> 00:23:55.940 because there's always chatter on the Emacs 00:23:58.980 --> 00:23:59.280 mailing list to rewrite Emacs and some other 00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:04.120 language. And to see that it's already to see 00:24:05.320 --> 00:24:05.820 that I mean, you have an implementation 00:24:08.360 --> 00:24:08.560 sitting there and, and the thing I was 00:24:10.600 --> 00:24:10.960 wondering while I was listening in on the, 00:24:14.060 --> 00:24:14.460 on the Q and A was do you have Dured? 00:24:15.400 --> 00:24:15.700 Do you have Maggot? And some, 00:24:17.100 --> 00:24:17.600 somebody else wrote that question into, 00:24:20.460 --> 00:24:20.640 into Etherpad. But I was happy to see that 00:24:22.800 --> 00:24:23.000 you have Dured or something like it 00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:25.440 implemented. Because I think that's like the, 00:24:27.040 --> 00:24:27.180 for me, that's the most important thing in 00:24:30.800 --> 00:24:31.000 Emacs because that gets me around in my 00:24:35.200 --> 00:24:35.380 [Speaker 2]: BRODINKOVICH Yeah, for me too. 00:24:35.740 --> 00:24:36.240 For me too. 00:24:37.100 --> 00:24:37.260 [Speaker 0]: Go ahead. 00:24:37.740 --> 00:24:37.940 [Speaker 3]: system. VICTOR Sorry. Yeah, 00:24:39.680 --> 00:24:40.160 so I may try it out sometime, 00:24:42.040 --> 00:24:42.540 but probably won't be for like 3 or 6 months, 00:24:45.060 --> 00:24:45.240 because there's always a backlog of other 00:24:46.560 --> 00:24:47.060 things to try out. 00:24:49.800 --> 00:24:50.300 [Speaker 4]: I'm the 1 who wrote that question. 00:24:54.020 --> 00:24:54.520 And do you use, I think you have bookmarks 00:24:55.380 --> 00:24:55.800 and registers, I imagine, 00:24:55.800 --> 00:24:56.300 right? 00:24:59.700 --> 00:25:00.060 [Speaker 2]: I think you have. I never tried bookmarks 00:25:01.220 --> 00:25:01.400 because I don't use it that much. 00:25:02.560 --> 00:25:03.060 But I think you have something like that. 00:25:05.420 --> 00:25:05.840 I mean, I don't. There's a few features that 00:25:07.360 --> 00:25:07.540 I don't know about them because I don't use 00:25:08.680 --> 00:25:08.980 it much. Some features, 00:25:11.580 --> 00:25:11.840 I mean. But yeah, I think you have. 00:25:13.100 --> 00:25:13.380 Let me check. We can check, 00:25:16.620 --> 00:25:17.120 probably. Things in extensions, 00:25:23.140 --> 00:25:23.480 just directory. VNXT. Directory mode. 00:25:28.950 --> 00:25:29.450 So there is. So this is the Tyrant's friend. 00:25:31.780 --> 00:25:32.230 I won't say clone. Very inspired. 00:25:36.580 --> 00:25:36.900 [Speaker 4]: What about like on the note-taking front, 00:25:38.440 --> 00:25:38.940 like org mode, 00:25:41.040 --> 00:25:41.380 [Speaker 2]: You know. note... Yes, 00:25:50.440 --> 00:25:50.940 so... EMMS... Yes, so someone did some MMS. 00:25:58.380 --> 00:25:58.620 So not MMS, not much. So package for LEM that 00:26:00.060 --> 00:26:00.400 is now in a pull request, 00:26:03.800 --> 00:26:04.300 I think. But yeah, no. 00:26:06.800 --> 00:26:07.300 The thing is I don't use R mode that much. 00:26:11.980 --> 00:26:12.480 We don't have a heavy R mode user to provide 00:26:15.020 --> 00:26:15.300 some major mode and stuff. 00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:18.600 So we don't have that implemented yet. 00:26:20.580 --> 00:26:20.900 The thing is, my plans for, 00:26:22.360 --> 00:26:22.860 I do have plans for our mode. 00:26:24.020 --> 00:26:24.520 They're a little bit evil, 00:26:26.200 --> 00:26:26.700 but there's plans for it. 00:26:27.800 --> 00:26:28.040 So I'm planning to use, 00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:30.060 so rewriting our mode is a big task that I 00:26:34.200 --> 00:26:34.700 don't want to do. So I'm going to use Emacs 00:26:39.020 --> 00:26:39.520 for our mode in 2.11. I wrote a recipe, 00:26:45.060 --> 00:26:45.380 no, a remote procedural RPC that I'm using 00:26:46.860 --> 00:26:47.360 for the Red Bull and stuff. 00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:51.200 And I'm planning to have an Emacs Puppet to 00:26:54.720 --> 00:26:55.220 provide me the functionality for Org Mode. 00:26:59.380 --> 00:26:59.760 [Speaker 4]: I know for me, when I write notes, 00:27:01.640 --> 00:27:01.940 I like to note more than Org Roam just 00:27:06.340 --> 00:27:06.840 because I feel Org Mode is great and all, 00:27:08.920 --> 00:27:09.060 but if all my notes are in it, 00:27:10.260 --> 00:27:10.760 I kind of feel trapped by it. 00:27:14.460 --> 00:27:14.960 I did the talk journaling in KOutline, 00:27:17.800 --> 00:27:18.040 and I like that package better for some 00:27:21.040 --> 00:27:21.260 things and it's like if I want to put like 00:27:24.280 --> 00:27:24.780 the tags on PDF file names and so it's like 00:27:28.940 --> 00:27:29.100 Yeah, it's great and all but it's also Is 00:27:31.560 --> 00:27:31.740 that part of the motivation of wanting to use 00:27:34.620 --> 00:27:35.120 lamb is so you feel less entrapped by emacs 00:27:38.445 --> 00:27:38.840 No, I will say I don't no. 00:27:40.620 --> 00:27:41.120 [Speaker 2]: No, no. I was very happy trapping to Emacs. 00:27:47.100 --> 00:27:47.560 To be fair. The thing is I don't use Hormel 00:27:48.600 --> 00:27:49.100 that much. That's just the reality. 00:27:52.120 --> 00:27:52.580 Org Mode for me is a very good markup 00:27:54.660 --> 00:27:54.810 language, but not that much really. 00:27:56.920 --> 00:27:57.420 I know that Org Mode has a lot of people and 00:27:58.740 --> 00:27:59.060 it's used by a lot of people. 00:28:00.060 --> 00:28:00.560 And there's very interesting packages. 00:28:03.700 --> 00:28:04.200 [Speaker 4]: What about org mode versus markdown versus 00:28:05.800 --> 00:28:06.300 plain text versus latex then? 00:28:08.480 --> 00:28:08.860 [Speaker 2]: I like org mode because of the Emacs 00:28:10.380 --> 00:28:10.880 functionality. I think if you take that away, 00:28:15.600 --> 00:28:16.100 you plain or mode versus Markdown, 00:28:17.720 --> 00:28:18.080 I don't think there's that much difference, 00:28:19.960 --> 00:28:20.460 if you take the Emacs functionality away. 00:28:24.560 --> 00:28:24.880 I like the 00:28:27.260 --> 00:28:27.760 [Speaker 4]: Yeah. Emacs syntax more than Markdown. 00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:29.900 Like, for instance, you have the double 00:28:31.720 --> 00:28:31.960 square brackets, which is simpler for me to 00:28:32.500 --> 00:28:33.000 look at, but. 00:28:35.820 --> 00:28:36.060 [Speaker 2]: Yeah, I guess it's a matter of, 00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:38.640 I mean, we don't have yet a major mode of R 00:28:39.800 --> 00:28:40.300 mode, which will be quite trivial. 00:28:42.660 --> 00:28:43.160 Well, you know, a simple syntax highlights, 00:28:46.040 --> 00:28:46.540 you know, R mode in LEM, 00:28:52.460 --> 00:28:52.960 because no 1 wrote it. 00:28:55.320 --> 00:28:55.640 I mean, that's the way with this project, 00:29:00.060 --> 00:29:00.360 right? If you need people to be motivated to 00:29:04.120 --> 00:29:04.620 do that. And with LEM, 00:29:06.540 --> 00:29:07.040 someone asked about the Japanese. 00:29:11.320 --> 00:29:11.820 I think they're interested about that. 00:29:15.040 --> 00:29:15.420 LEM does have a thing, 00:29:16.030 --> 00:29:16.095 [Speaker 0]: If the it would be good. 00:29:16.800 --> 00:29:17.160 [Speaker 4]: I'd be able to do more, 00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:18.500 but that's what I 00:29:19.370 --> 00:29:19.870 [Speaker 0]: was doing. 00:29:22.420 --> 00:29:22.820 [Speaker 2]: they think True. So, for example, 00:29:24.240 --> 00:29:24.740 we're using another big fan of... 00:29:27.840 --> 00:29:28.080 I mean, I know that the main people that may 00:29:30.280 --> 00:29:30.780 use in the future LEM are EMACLIS people. 00:29:33.080 --> 00:29:33.580 A lot of them. It's very similar. 00:29:37.540 --> 00:29:37.940 And Sasaki-san and the LEM community mainly 00:29:43.260 --> 00:29:43.760 uses Discord for chat and stuff. 00:29:46.980 --> 00:29:47.480 I mean, we do have matrix, 00:29:48.540 --> 00:29:48.640 and I should connect to it, 00:29:54.960 --> 00:29:55.320 by the way. But we mainly use Discord, 00:29:58.080 --> 00:29:58.580 which I don't think is a good thing. 00:30:01.900 --> 00:30:02.300 I mean, to have the main communication 00:30:05.020 --> 00:30:05.520 channels, Discord. Because, 00:30:09.020 --> 00:30:09.520 well, it's Discord. It's a closed source 00:30:13.180 --> 00:30:13.440 application that is easy for some people, 00:30:14.340 --> 00:30:14.840 but for some people it's a tailbreak. 00:30:17.040 --> 00:30:17.080 [Speaker 0]: are in 00:30:17.580 --> 00:30:18.080 [Speaker 2]: Especially people that the Emacs community 00:30:20.080 --> 00:30:20.580 that very like free software. 00:30:22.800 --> 00:30:23.300 [Speaker 4]: The only good thing about Molesley is it's 00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:26.380 popular, but as soon as you break out of that 00:30:28.380 --> 00:30:28.520 mold, all of a sudden it becomes a lot 00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:30.900 harder. For instance, they don't have... 00:30:33.820 --> 00:30:34.320 All the third-party clients are unofficial 00:30:37.340 --> 00:30:37.500 and according to their terms of service they 00:30:40.380 --> 00:30:40.600 can just can you. Which is not a nice 00:30:44.020 --> 00:30:44.180 position to be in if you're trying to use it 00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:47.700 and you wanted to be a moderator using some 00:30:50.600 --> 00:30:51.100 side tools that weren't Discord. 00:30:55.320 --> 00:30:55.560 [Speaker 2]: I agree 100% and in fact I'm not a big fan, 00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:56.900 I don't like Discord. 00:31:03.860 --> 00:31:04.360 [Speaker 5]: You mentioned the RPC you did between Emacs 00:31:06.200 --> 00:31:06.700 and the LEM. Do you have it published 00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:07.220 somewhere? 00:31:13.520 --> 00:31:14.020 [Speaker 2]: Yes, it's in the LEM project. 00:31:15.820 --> 00:31:16.320 I'll copy that in the chat. 00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:19.340 [Speaker 5]: Okay, because I'm always interested in how 00:31:21.560 --> 00:31:22.060 you do like the communication with other 00:31:24.020 --> 00:31:24.320 programs with Emacs because that's 00:31:24.320 --> 00:31:24.820 interesting. 00:31:30.140 --> 00:31:30.640 [Speaker 2]: I'm only using the porthole package, 00:31:32.460 --> 00:31:32.960 I'm not writing it from scratch, 00:31:34.340 --> 00:31:34.840 not that much as a developer. 00:31:37.540 --> 00:31:37.960 [Speaker 5]: So I don't know this package. 00:31:39.140 --> 00:31:39.640 Maybe that's the thing I can learn. 00:31:40.840 --> 00:31:41.140 [Speaker 2]: Oh yeah, probably if you, 00:31:42.360 --> 00:31:42.740 yeah. Yeah. If you want to, 00:31:43.860 --> 00:31:44.360 so I didn't see this 1, 00:31:46.420 --> 00:31:46.920 this package for the RSP, 00:31:48.620 --> 00:31:49.120 which make is monthly automatically. 00:31:53.200 --> 00:31:53.600 [Speaker 5]: And how do you do, how do you plan to 00:31:59.180 --> 00:31:59.440 integrate Org Mode? Because Org Mode needs to 00:31:59.760 --> 00:32:00.260 work on. 00:32:03.340 --> 00:32:03.540 [Speaker 2]: This way? Yes, so I'm planning to have like a 00:32:08.260 --> 00:32:08.760 Emacs puppet and to have like a clone buffer 00:32:11.320 --> 00:32:11.820 from the buffer that you do in LEM and then 00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:17.380 the command sent into the Emacs hidden buffer 00:32:19.820 --> 00:32:20.140 and then the changes go back to LEM to change 00:32:22.660 --> 00:32:23.160 the buffer of LEM. That's my idea. 00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:25.460 [Speaker 5]: Okay, that's all. It's interesting. 00:32:28.320 --> 00:32:28.540 Would be interesting to see what comes from 00:32:28.540 --> 00:32:29.040 it. 00:32:32.280 --> 00:32:32.780 [Speaker 2]: It's a bit, it's a hackish 100%. 00:32:35.200 --> 00:32:35.320 It's not, you have to duplicate the 00:32:36.020 --> 00:32:36.520 information and stuff, 00:32:38.940 --> 00:32:39.140 which is, oh, by the way, 00:32:40.320 --> 00:32:40.820 I'm going to pass the Lemington, 00:32:43.380 --> 00:32:43.880 which is the name of the RSP clone. 00:32:45.980 --> 00:32:46.480 Sorry, the integration with Emacs, 00:32:48.900 --> 00:32:49.400 which is LEM with a mustache. 00:32:54.400 --> 00:32:54.600 [Speaker 4]: They had good news where it would do the same 00:32:56.360 --> 00:32:56.860 thing, where it would open up a slave Emacs, 00:33:00.020 --> 00:33:00.520 because it was such a performance hog for 00:33:02.140 --> 00:33:02.640 retrieving all the emails. 00:33:06.940 --> 00:33:07.360 [Speaker 2]: No. I mean, Emacs have a server, 00:33:08.559 --> 00:33:08.860 right? I can, in fact, 00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:11.700 I'm using that for, I'm already puppeting. 00:33:13.340 --> 00:33:13.620 Well, not puppeting. I'm already using 00:33:15.700 --> 00:33:16.200 Maggots. So I have this. 00:33:17.400 --> 00:33:17.900 Actually, let me copy. 00:33:25.600 --> 00:33:25.920 I have this, which is usually a little bit, 00:33:28.080 --> 00:33:28.420 I'm launching the Emacs daemon and then I'm 00:33:31.500 --> 00:33:31.740 launching Leviton. And then this is the kill 00:33:32.300 --> 00:33:32.700 and this is the status, 00:33:33.440 --> 00:33:33.940 which is basically saying, 00:33:36.680 --> 00:33:37.180 run this and this is this, 00:33:42.040 --> 00:33:42.540 which is run maggot in this file. 00:33:43.940 --> 00:33:44.340 If you put it side by side, 00:33:48.680 --> 00:33:48.800 you will check instantly that this is the 00:33:50.900 --> 00:33:51.400 buffer directory, LEM home, 00:33:54.020 --> 00:33:54.520 and then the current file. 00:33:58.860 --> 00:33:59.360 Because I'm launching it with the file. 00:34:03.940 --> 00:34:04.240 So buffer directory, which is the directory 00:34:09.239 --> 00:34:09.739 of the buffer. So I'm already using maggot as 00:34:13.600 --> 00:34:14.080 a tool outside of LEM, 00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:15.060 because I really like maggot. 00:34:16.920 --> 00:34:17.420 And this is very easy to check. 00:34:22.719 --> 00:34:23.219 Launch Emacs daemon. Okay. 00:34:28.580 --> 00:34:29.080 And then I go to local projects. 00:34:31.719 --> 00:34:32.219 Let's go to another 1 that is not LEM. 00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:37.400 [Speaker 4]: You actually have weird ideas like running it 00:34:39.639 --> 00:34:39.860 in daemon mode so you don't ever have to 00:34:40.840 --> 00:34:41.340 restart it or the images, 00:34:43.100 --> 00:34:43.600 I guess, that LEM has. 00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:47.300 [Speaker 2]: LEM does not have this kind of, 00:34:53.719 --> 00:34:54.060 I will call it, it doesn't have like a demon 00:34:56.280 --> 00:34:56.780 mode, so you have control separately, 00:34:58.860 --> 00:34:59.360 but keep in mind that LEM, 00:35:01.260 --> 00:35:01.680 it's a common list program. 00:35:03.340 --> 00:35:03.840 So if you use slime or Sly, 00:35:10.080 --> 00:35:10.580 you can easily connect to them to hack on it. 00:35:12.380 --> 00:35:12.880 [Speaker 4]: ever use that functionality, 00:35:14.060 --> 00:35:14.560 like using it from another computer? 00:35:16.400 --> 00:35:16.900 [Speaker 2]: Do you Another computer, 00:35:17.600 --> 00:35:18.100 I think the same computer, 00:35:21.460 --> 00:35:21.620 or maybe Sage, but yeah, 00:35:21.820 --> 00:35:22.320 it's very... 00:35:24.520 --> 00:35:25.020 [Speaker 4]: Or from like your window, 00:35:26.640 --> 00:35:27.140 if you were using the window... 00:35:28.260 --> 00:35:28.580 I can't remember the name of the window 00:35:30.100 --> 00:35:30.600 manager. Or if you were using... 00:35:36.460 --> 00:35:36.960 What? Yeah, yeah. Or using like stump, 00:35:40.680 --> 00:35:40.760 calling it from like stump WM or how often do 00:35:41.500 --> 00:35:42.000 you use that REPL? 00:35:43.740 --> 00:35:43.940 [Speaker 2]: SPCL? No. ThumbWM? I use it quite a lot. 00:35:44.700 --> 00:35:45.200 I connect to a museum, 00:35:49.400 --> 00:35:49.760 some WM right now, and I use LEM to connect 00:35:52.240 --> 00:35:52.740 to it, but I was using Emacs before. 00:35:55.800 --> 00:35:55.960 And you can use Sly or Slime to connect to 00:35:58.260 --> 00:35:58.520 LEM. So the thing that is in Common List 00:36:00.900 --> 00:36:01.400 makes it this kind of already out-of-the-box 00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:04.280 connectivity between different... 00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:07.460 [Speaker 4]: How many window managers have you used? 00:36:11.120 --> 00:36:11.400 I've used that before. 00:36:13.440 --> 00:36:13.780 I've also used, like right now I'm using 00:36:14.720 --> 00:36:15.220 Sway. I've used Xmonad, 00:36:16.260 --> 00:36:16.760 DWM. 00:36:23.040 --> 00:36:23.540 [Speaker 2]: This is awesome. What is the other 1? 00:36:25.680 --> 00:36:26.180 I can't remember the name. 00:36:27.900 --> 00:36:28.380 But it was like a few years ago. 00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:31.020 I've been doing some DWM for like the last 00:36:36.260 --> 00:36:36.760 [Speaker 4]: I remember that. Go ahead. 00:36:37.740 --> 00:36:38.240 [Speaker 2]: year, I think. Or 3. know, 00:36:41.940 --> 00:36:42.440 it's that I was... I don't know. 00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:43.520 [Speaker 0]: I don't a couple 00:36:44.040 --> 00:36:44.540 [Speaker 2]: I'd like to have of days of my... 00:36:48.280 --> 00:36:48.400 [Speaker 4]: I remember that that window manager seemed to 00:36:53.300 --> 00:36:53.600 have some unique ideas that weren't 00:36:56.280 --> 00:36:56.780 necessarily available on like EWM and XMLNAD. 00:37:02.540 --> 00:37:03.040 [Speaker 2]: So SoundLM, it's an interesting project. 00:37:05.140 --> 00:37:05.460 But for example, I'll change... 00:37:06.720 --> 00:37:07.080 So I don't have in this computer, 00:37:08.240 --> 00:37:08.680 but in my other computer, 00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:14.320 I change the mod line or bar, 00:37:18.220 --> 00:37:18.720 top bar, whatever, because the ThunderLVM 00:37:21.500 --> 00:37:22.000 doesn't only update it when you click, 00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:25.680 or you do some events or happen 1 minute. 00:37:27.560 --> 00:37:27.980 So you can see here, this is not changing 00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:28.820 until I click. 00:37:33.500 --> 00:37:33.720 [Speaker 0]: That's it. 00:37:34.360 --> 00:37:34.600 [Speaker 3]: AUDIENCE 1 Matthew, sorry. 00:37:36.160 --> 00:37:36.660 I have a quick question for Matthew. 00:37:43.520 --> 00:37:43.640 So is your talk going to be posted or did you 00:37:47.420 --> 00:37:47.920 [Speaker 4]: Go ahead. I gave them a recording. 00:37:50.140 --> 00:37:50.640 My talk was the K outline for journaling 00:37:53.080 --> 00:37:53.240 [Speaker 3]: give it live? right right it was I woke up 00:37:54.020 --> 00:37:54.520 too late for it Sorry, 00:37:58.420 --> 00:37:58.920 so I came in and I just saw Bob Weiner 00:38:03.240 --> 00:38:03.340 answering questions So is your talk going to 00:38:06.560 --> 00:38:07.060 be on the page for your talk? 00:38:07.740 --> 00:38:07.960 I don't 00:38:08.560 --> 00:38:09.060 [Speaker 0]: see it there. 00:38:11.940 --> 00:38:12.380 [Speaker 4]: I could give you a link to it, 00:38:17.480 --> 00:38:17.640 because I had, I hosted it on Mega to give it 00:38:18.840 --> 00:38:19.020 to them, because when I emailed it, 00:38:22.080 --> 00:38:22.200 [Speaker 3]: Oh, okay. Is it 00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:22.840 [Speaker 4]: it didn't work. on a monkey? 00:38:23.600 --> 00:38:24.100 Download and watch it. 00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:29.920 I'm probably going to post it on YouTube 00:38:33.600 --> 00:38:33.760 later. I, I had my face record with it, 00:38:36.020 --> 00:38:36.520 but I never got it edited together in time 00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:40.640 [Speaker 3]: Okay, if you could if you can put the link 00:38:43.140 --> 00:38:43.340 onto the onto the ether pad or something or 00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:46.160 onto the wiki then then I can find it and 00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:50.140 check it out. All right, 00:38:53.040 --> 00:38:53.480 thanks. Sorry to interrupt your time, 00:38:56.300 --> 00:38:56.440 Fermin, but I figure we're heavily into the 00:38:57.260 --> 00:38:57.760 break anyways. FERMIN GENZIERIA-CHAPMANI 00:39:00.920 --> 00:39:01.160 [Speaker 2]: No problem. I'm in an EMAX conference talking 00:39:02.860 --> 00:39:03.040 about all that I mean I'm already doing 00:39:04.280 --> 00:39:04.780 blasphemy so I 00:39:24.600 --> 00:39:24.800 think that's oh yeah notes so the thing is 00:39:26.640 --> 00:39:27.140 then as my point of view, 00:39:28.860 --> 00:39:29.360 and the point of view probably of Sasaki-san, 00:39:30.240 --> 00:39:30.740 just a moment, I think, 00:39:34.960 --> 00:39:35.220 is very focused on an IDE more than a 00:39:40.580 --> 00:39:41.080 node-taking editor. More like an integrated 00:39:41.540 --> 00:39:42.040 development environment. 00:39:45.040 --> 00:39:45.540 So node is like a second thing. 00:39:51.500 --> 00:39:52.000 So not exactly the main focus. 00:39:54.440 --> 00:39:54.780 And I know that Emacs does have a very strong 00:39:58.440 --> 00:39:58.940 community of Ormode users that use Emacs for 00:40:00.140 --> 00:40:00.244 Ormode, which is the killer feature, 00:40:01.080 --> 00:40:01.360 1 of I'll do a feature. 00:40:04.456 --> 00:40:04.956 I'll do a feature of Emacs. 00:40:09.160 --> 00:40:09.660 So I'm not the maintainer of porthole. 00:40:20.220 --> 00:40:20.580 I'm sorry. I did add it to so I don't 00:40:22.700 --> 00:40:23.040 maintain the remote. I'm sorry, 00:40:27.400 --> 00:40:27.840 I'll pothole the USB. I'm only using it on 00:40:31.120 --> 00:40:31.620 the Lamington. I cannot change anything. 00:40:39.520 --> 00:40:39.760 [Speaker 4]: What are some interesting things you have 00:40:40.760 --> 00:40:41.260 with your window manager? 00:40:43.780 --> 00:40:44.280 I do have elsewhere. 00:40:49.400 --> 00:40:49.600 [Speaker 2]: I can connect to it and hack it from my 00:40:53.040 --> 00:40:53.540 editor, which I think is really fun. 00:40:56.820 --> 00:40:57.220 The way I can write, so I wrote a few 00:40:58.500 --> 00:40:59.000 packages for Soundallium. 00:41:06.740 --> 00:41:07.240 So 1 of them is Proton, 00:41:10.360 --> 00:41:10.860 which basically launches like a... 00:41:18.480 --> 00:41:18.900 So Proton is like this wine thing that Valve 00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:22.500 [Speaker 4]: Yeah, I'm a user. 00:41:24.140 --> 00:41:24.640 [Speaker 2]: did. OK, so this basically, 00:41:26.480 --> 00:41:26.980 you have like a list of, 00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:32.540 let me check. No, we're just, 00:41:38.780 --> 00:41:39.020 sorry. This, So these all games are bought by 00:41:41.280 --> 00:41:41.780 me. They're not pirates in any way. 00:41:45.800 --> 00:41:46.300 I can use this to to launch it. 00:41:50.700 --> 00:41:51.200 [Speaker 4]: Was that Dmenu or was that StumpWM menu? 00:41:54.800 --> 00:41:55.240 [Speaker 2]: This is Dmenu. So I have, 00:42:02.300 --> 00:42:02.560 I also contribute the Dmenu integration into 00:42:05.820 --> 00:42:06.320 StumwM. So I use Dmenu. 00:42:07.480 --> 00:42:07.980 So like this, right? 00:42:13.300 --> 00:42:13.800 [Speaker 4]: Yeah that's pretty cool. 00:42:15.720 --> 00:42:15.940 You don't know how nice those things are 00:42:16.880 --> 00:42:17.380 until you start using those. 00:42:21.280 --> 00:42:21.780 [Speaker 2]: The menu is very interesting and very... 00:42:24.060 --> 00:42:24.560 Also I was using RoFi, 00:42:25.680 --> 00:42:26.000 but... 00:42:29.100 --> 00:42:29.540 [Speaker 4]: I was also more... The other thing I was more 00:42:31.240 --> 00:42:31.740 mentioning is that also, 00:42:32.860 --> 00:42:33.340 being able to use D-Menu, 00:42:34.800 --> 00:42:35.300 but being able to just have keyboard 00:42:38.680 --> 00:42:39.180 oriented? Everything fuzzy search narrowed 00:42:45.420 --> 00:42:45.480 and No tabs no status bars like all of a 00:42:47.160 --> 00:42:47.600 sudden your mental model on how your computer 00:42:51.420 --> 00:42:51.560 operates goes through the roof and a lot of 00:42:57.900 --> 00:42:58.400 Emacs users Know what that is like Especially 00:43:01.240 --> 00:43:01.740 In conjunction with a window manager? 00:43:06.740 --> 00:43:07.200 [Speaker 2]: Yeah, I think so. I remember when I was... 00:43:11.320 --> 00:43:11.820 So for me, I tried the Emacs window manager, 00:43:16.840 --> 00:43:17.340 but it wasn't for me. Having a single thread 00:43:18.460 --> 00:43:18.960 window manager is scary. 00:43:22.500 --> 00:43:22.840 And also games and some stuff wasn't working 00:43:25.040 --> 00:43:25.240 correctly, which it makes sense in some 00:43:27.340 --> 00:43:27.840 regards, using Emacs for window manager. 00:43:30.660 --> 00:43:31.160 Oh 00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:34.980 [Speaker 4]: I've used it before I found that it wasn't as 00:43:39.240 --> 00:43:39.740 like it. It's not as bad in practice because 00:43:43.020 --> 00:43:43.260 The paper cuts you don't like to hit them 00:43:45.800 --> 00:43:46.000 every day So you make sure So you make sure 00:43:48.080 --> 00:43:48.400 your Emacs config is a lot nicer and doesn't 00:43:51.040 --> 00:43:51.300 have those slowdowns. Or you avoid those 00:43:54.440 --> 00:43:54.780 things. It forces you to make your Emacs 00:43:59.440 --> 00:43:59.940 config a lot more robust to speed. 00:44:02.040 --> 00:44:02.300 [Speaker 2]: Yeah, yeah. That's true, 00:44:04.200 --> 00:44:04.440 yeah. The thing, yeah, 00:44:05.600 --> 00:44:06.020 but still, I don't know, 00:44:08.680 --> 00:44:09.060 [Speaker 4]: You'll still get the paper cuts, 00:44:09.060 --> 00:44:09.560 but... 00:44:12.360 --> 00:44:12.660 [Speaker 2]: like... Yeah, and my experience was not 00:44:16.500 --> 00:44:16.880 great. I'm not a person, 00:44:17.860 --> 00:44:18.360 like, I don't want to have... 00:44:19.960 --> 00:44:20.460 Not with LEM or Emacs. 00:44:22.660 --> 00:44:23.160 I like to have different programs. 00:44:25.840 --> 00:44:26.120 I don't want to like, I never was in like 00:44:28.040 --> 00:44:28.540 Emacs or you know, only Emacs. 00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:30.800 I really love Emacs, GNU Emacs, 00:44:33.920 --> 00:44:34.140 but only Emacs? No, no, 00:44:35.300 --> 00:44:35.540 I like my browser, I like my, 00:44:37.500 --> 00:44:38.000 you know, my Windows Manager, 00:44:41.280 --> 00:44:41.780 my, you know, I wasn't Emacs only. 00:44:45.520 --> 00:44:46.000 Emacs is my OS. Some people are, 00:44:48.600 --> 00:44:49.100 which is good. Different kind of a... 00:44:51.600 --> 00:44:52.100 I have to say that I come from Vim, 00:44:57.340 --> 00:44:57.720 like a long time ago. But I come from Vim, 00:44:58.660 --> 00:44:58.980 so I'm using Evil Mode. 00:45:00.280 --> 00:45:00.780 And I maybe have this kind of a... 00:45:05.700 --> 00:45:06.200 Yeah. So regarding Summoner.vm, 00:45:10.080 --> 00:45:10.580 it's... I like it because it's common Lisp, 00:45:13.940 --> 00:45:14.440 but it don't have some, 00:45:18.120 --> 00:45:18.620 this, I removed this. So I'm using another 00:45:21.040 --> 00:45:21.340 model line because the model line is not 00:45:24.440 --> 00:45:24.720 great. Everything else is a little bit weird 00:45:28.940 --> 00:45:29.440 because you have frames similar to Emacs. 00:45:33.560 --> 00:45:34.060 You have a frame. You have this window, 00:45:35.600 --> 00:45:36.100 and then there's no nothing here. 00:45:37.700 --> 00:45:38.100 [Speaker 4]: Yeah, I've used it before. 00:45:39.720 --> 00:45:40.220 That was definitely weird. 00:45:41.680 --> 00:45:42.180 It's also nice to be able to just... 00:45:43.660 --> 00:45:44.160 Can't you put multiple windows? 00:45:46.100 --> 00:45:46.600 Can't you duplicate windows? 00:45:48.040 --> 00:45:48.540 Show the same window in 2 frames? 00:45:48.560 --> 00:45:49.060 NIGEL 00:45:51.020 --> 00:45:51.520 [Speaker 2]: GANSZELA-WALSH Never tried that. 00:45:54.400 --> 00:45:54.900 Never occurred to me that. 00:45:57.840 --> 00:45:58.020 I don't know. Never tried that, 00:46:01.480 --> 00:46:01.980 to be honest. Let me check. 00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:07.780 No idea. Item? I think so. 00:46:10.080 --> 00:46:10.320 Because when you try to, 00:46:11.520 --> 00:46:11.980 at least not in an easy way. 00:46:13.940 --> 00:46:14.260 When you try to, so if I try to put a window 00:46:16.020 --> 00:46:16.520 here, let me move it so it, 00:46:20.060 --> 00:46:20.540 and if I try to like, so it's, 00:46:21.680 --> 00:46:21.890 yeah, no other window. 00:46:24.100 --> 00:46:24.360 [Speaker 4]: So can you open the, what is that, 00:46:25.080 --> 00:46:25.440 discord or your browser? 00:46:26.840 --> 00:46:27.340 Could you open that in both your frames? 00:46:34.620 --> 00:46:35.120 [Speaker 2]: I can I Side by side, but not the same 00:46:37.740 --> 00:46:37.920 [Speaker 0]: I mean I do I can I can have I know 00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:38.600 [Speaker 4]: can't your frames? 2 browsers you can do that 00:46:42.600 --> 00:46:43.100 [Speaker 2]: browser I never occurred to me that, 00:46:46.300 --> 00:46:46.800 [Speaker 4]: in DWM? You can't do that in XMLNet, 00:46:48.560 --> 00:46:49.060 at least I don't know what configuration 00:46:50.820 --> 00:46:51.020 you'd have to do to get to be able to do that 00:46:51.140 --> 00:46:51.640 in XMONAD. 00:46:54.060 --> 00:46:54.560 [Speaker 2]: wow. Interesting. Maybe you can. 00:46:57.700 --> 00:46:58.200 I never tried. Maybe you can? 00:47:03.240 --> 00:47:03.640 No idea. The interesting thing that I never 00:47:05.860 --> 00:47:06.360 use is that floating windows. 00:47:09.520 --> 00:47:09.960 Never use floating windows, 00:47:13.480 --> 00:47:13.780 but normal windows. You know, 00:47:17.780 --> 00:47:18.160 not. And SoundWM does have a weird support 00:47:24.720 --> 00:47:25.220 for it. Now it works. But I don't like it. 00:47:26.680 --> 00:47:27.180 For me, it was a little bit rough, 00:47:29.480 --> 00:47:29.980 the use of floating windows in SoundWM. 00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:32.980 I think they're way better now. 00:47:36.580 --> 00:47:37.080 I think, but yeah, I don't use it so... 00:47:40.600 --> 00:47:41.100 But there is. 00:47:43.520 --> 00:47:43.940 [Speaker 4]: You know, for me with the, 00:47:45.060 --> 00:47:45.480 like, Emacs doing everything, 00:47:46.880 --> 00:47:47.380 it's like, you got like Emacs, 00:47:50.320 --> 00:47:50.740 you got shell, and then you got the gooey 00:47:56.520 --> 00:47:56.760 Wild West. Yeah. Like, 00:47:58.940 --> 00:47:59.440 with Emacs, I know, I'll generally get, 00:48:01.280 --> 00:48:01.780 oh, this is going to be configured in? 00:48:04.160 --> 00:48:04.660 It's either gonna be shell script, 00:48:06.180 --> 00:48:06.340 Python or Emacs. Oh wait, 00:48:07.000 --> 00:48:07.500 no, it's gonna be Emacs. 00:48:09.680 --> 00:48:10.180 Variable's gonna be written in SecQ, 00:48:10.380 --> 00:48:10.880 period. 00:48:16.640 --> 00:48:17.140 [Speaker 2]: Well, I don't use too much scripting, 00:48:18.260 --> 00:48:18.540 but I'd like to, for example, 00:48:21.540 --> 00:48:22.040 I had to do a, so the automatic installer 00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:26.500 for, for Debian base, Debian stuff for Linux 00:48:30.340 --> 00:48:30.840 for, for LEM. I was thinking of doing in bash 00:48:32.520 --> 00:48:33.020 and I say, I don't want to do it in Bash. 00:48:35.380 --> 00:48:35.880 So I just did it in SVC and Commodisp, 00:48:37.660 --> 00:48:38.100 which does have like a scripting feature. 00:48:40.920 --> 00:48:41.040 You can put a script and it will create your 00:48:41.160 --> 00:48:41.660 own script. 00:48:45.860 --> 00:48:46.280 [Speaker 4]: 1 of the main people behind Next, 00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:50.880 he did a talk on using Common Lisp as a 00:48:51.720 --> 00:48:52.220 replacement for a shell. 00:48:58.700 --> 00:48:59.200 [Speaker 2]: Yes, it was... I know him. 00:49:00.680 --> 00:49:01.180 I know that he exists. 00:49:04.600 --> 00:49:04.900 Next, I think it's a main maintainer of Nix, 00:49:09.140 --> 00:49:09.620 [Speaker 4]: Yeah, although his website's kind of, 00:49:10.380 --> 00:49:10.880 I think he took it down. 00:49:12.280 --> 00:49:12.780 [Speaker 2]: Ambrevar. Yeah, I think he, 00:49:14.480 --> 00:49:14.980 yeah, he took it down. 00:49:17.360 --> 00:49:17.680 [Speaker 4]: So if you want to, you can look at it in Time 00:49:17.680 --> 00:49:18.180 Machine. 00:49:23.940 --> 00:49:24.440 [Speaker 2]: Yeah, I do have that article in my bookmarks, 00:49:26.740 --> 00:49:27.240 I think, somewhere. I remember reading that. 00:49:30.360 --> 00:49:30.840 So also, I would like to keep separated 00:49:32.880 --> 00:49:33.380 things in that way to have shell and then 00:49:37.940 --> 00:49:38.440 Emacs or LEM. Like for Emacs I use Viter. 00:49:40.760 --> 00:49:41.260 I don't like that it has different, 00:49:41.760 --> 00:49:42.260 you know. 00:49:44.900 --> 00:49:45.060 [Speaker 4]: On the same time though, 00:49:46.960 --> 00:49:47.120 I also don't like my terminal not to be able 00:49:52.340 --> 00:49:52.600 to click URLs and I like I like my terminal 00:49:54.560 --> 00:49:55.060 to have history and you know to scroll 00:49:58.040 --> 00:49:58.200 position copy paste You can do some of that 00:50:00.020 --> 00:50:00.160 stuff, but you know how that stuff go on the 00:50:01.960 --> 00:50:02.080 killer ring I kind of view it as like an 00:50:02.800 --> 00:50:03.300 alternative to shell. 00:50:06.940 --> 00:50:07.080 [Speaker 2]: Fair enough, but I think when some for my 00:50:08.720 --> 00:50:09.220 terminal, I only use it for navigate, 00:50:11.280 --> 00:50:11.780 remove stuff, so basic stuff. 00:50:14.280 --> 00:50:14.640 When I have to like, I don't know, 00:50:17.640 --> 00:50:18.140 edit something, just open the... 00:50:22.120 --> 00:50:22.400 [Speaker 4]: I like to use completion and narrowing to 00:50:24.480 --> 00:50:24.720 find my files. I kind of wish I could do that 00:50:26.320 --> 00:50:26.600 [Speaker 0]: on the shell or like if you use 00:50:27.400 --> 00:50:27.640 [Speaker 4]: more D-Menu to do that. 00:50:28.440 --> 00:50:28.760 That would be, I'm sure, 00:50:28.760 --> 00:50:29.260 nicer. 00:50:38.140 --> 00:50:38.240 [Speaker 2]: There's a lot of tools for terminals to do 00:50:39.800 --> 00:50:39.880 that, right? But you have to configure all of 00:50:41.580 --> 00:50:41.780 them. Beam users are very aware of those 00:50:46.980 --> 00:50:47.300 tools. You know, having very good fuzzy 00:50:49.240 --> 00:50:49.440 finding of files and then all by the 00:50:53.680 --> 00:50:54.100 terminal. I do have a friend who is a user of 00:50:56.820 --> 00:50:57.320 the Forbidden Editor, he's good, 00:51:01.900 --> 00:51:02.400 that does have a lot of small, 00:51:09.480 --> 00:51:09.980 like fuzzy finding, and so complete commands, 00:51:12.240 --> 00:51:12.740 and call those images in the terminal, 00:51:14.300 --> 00:51:14.800 all sorts of crazy stuff. 00:51:16.120 --> 00:51:16.620 That I think are not overkill, 00:51:20.380 --> 00:51:20.560 but I mean, if you want to use it, 00:51:29.540 --> 00:51:30.040 go ahead. So yeah. The thing is that, 00:51:32.360 --> 00:51:32.860 So trickling back a little bit to LEM, 00:51:35.600 --> 00:51:35.860 I think an interesting thought that I have 00:51:37.280 --> 00:51:37.780 about LEM and I can do Emacs. 00:51:40.680 --> 00:51:41.180 Not now, because LEM is a very small, 00:51:43.740 --> 00:51:44.240 like literally people, 00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:46.500 at least developers and users, 00:51:50.280 --> 00:51:50.780 I don't know, maybe 10 less. 00:51:56.780 --> 00:51:57.280 But people may think, split the community, 00:51:58.740 --> 00:51:58.900 right? That's the main thing that should come 00:51:59.960 --> 00:52:00.460 to my mind, split the community, 00:52:01.840 --> 00:52:02.140 maybe you, because that's true. 00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:04.280 I mean, I'm not developing that much in Nui 00:52:06.260 --> 00:52:06.760 MacLisp because I'm developing them. 00:52:12.080 --> 00:52:12.580 That's not that I'm a force that you might 00:52:13.360 --> 00:52:13.860 think exists or anything, 00:52:17.220 --> 00:52:17.400 but you know, you're splitting a very small 00:52:21.600 --> 00:52:21.760 community. Not that LEM wants to do that or 00:52:24.160 --> 00:52:24.360 anything, or will be able to in any way, 00:52:25.280 --> 00:52:25.780 but you know what I mean. 00:52:32.360 --> 00:52:32.780 I thought about that, And I think it's an 00:52:40.600 --> 00:52:40.800 interesting concern. But that concern also 00:52:42.180 --> 00:52:42.680 stops innovation in some way. 00:52:46.960 --> 00:52:47.460 [Speaker 4]: I think you can, if you look at the example 00:52:50.200 --> 00:52:50.680 of how many EMAX talks are related to 00:52:54.760 --> 00:52:54.960 knowledge management and not all and like for 00:52:57.840 --> 00:52:58.100 instance denote and Orgrim don't really work 00:53:01.740 --> 00:53:01.880 together all that well they split the 00:53:03.740 --> 00:53:03.960 community so to say I don't think they make 00:53:04.720 --> 00:53:05.220 it weaker at all, though. 00:53:08.560 --> 00:53:08.800 I think you were saying competition is good, 00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:10.500 but yeah, competition is good. 00:53:12.100 --> 00:53:12.360 [Speaker 2]: Yeah, I agree on that. 00:53:13.280 --> 00:53:13.780 I want to put it in the... 00:53:15.400 --> 00:53:15.900 But, you know, I'm doing the devil's advocate 00:53:18.252 --> 00:53:18.271 [Speaker 0]: something, that's... The developer gates in 00:53:18.308 --> 00:53:18.327 this regard. Like 00:53:18.327 --> 00:53:18.346 [Speaker 2]: in this regard. If someone wants to say if 00:53:19.280 --> 00:53:19.780 someone wants to like say something that 00:53:22.920 --> 00:53:23.160 maybe, you know, because some people still 00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:30.940 remember the Emacs versus X Emacs thing in 00:53:34.860 --> 00:53:35.360 the past, you know, that the split of the and 00:53:38.100 --> 00:53:38.240 That was good in some way but also bad in 00:53:39.800 --> 00:53:39.960 others like the compatibility was a little 00:53:42.560 --> 00:53:43.040 bit of a hell You know at the end Emacs 00:53:46.160 --> 00:53:46.440 failed, no Emacs But at that time it wasn't 00:53:50.140 --> 00:53:50.500 that clear and some people like it wasn't 00:53:53.200 --> 00:53:53.360 there. And I can understand that kind of a 00:53:53.360 --> 00:53:53.860 feeling. 00:53:58.820 --> 00:53:59.040 [Speaker 4]: Well sometimes the steps forward you end up 00:54:02.640 --> 00:54:02.760 going Like you're on a hill and you want to 00:54:05.820 --> 00:54:06.000 [Speaker 0]: the way the path to get up to 00:54:06.440 --> 00:54:06.720 [Speaker 4]: get to a higher hill, but that higher hill 00:54:10.920 --> 00:54:11.280 goes down and up. It doesn't mean that even 00:54:12.240 --> 00:54:12.600 if you know you're going down, 00:54:13.840 --> 00:54:14.340 it doesn't mean that it was a mistake. 00:54:19.740 --> 00:54:20.020 [Speaker 2]: Okay, fair enough. And also another 00:54:22.120 --> 00:54:22.360 interesting thing that I want to envision in 00:54:25.520 --> 00:54:25.720 the future, if I have time or someone wants 00:54:28.400 --> 00:54:28.740 to help me with, is I want them to have 00:54:30.240 --> 00:54:30.740 different language for extension, 00:54:32.560 --> 00:54:33.060 different Lisp for extension, 00:54:36.340 --> 00:54:36.840 not only common Lisp, but Scheme closure. 00:54:39.680 --> 00:54:40.080 And maybe not EmacLisp probably, 00:54:46.500 --> 00:54:47.000 [Speaker 4]: that what Guile Emacs is trying to do? 00:54:47.860 --> 00:54:48.080 [Speaker 2]: but yeah. And funny enough- Isn't Guile Emacs 00:54:50.060 --> 00:54:50.560 tried to add Guile support to, 00:54:52.040 --> 00:54:52.540 but Guile is not scheme. 00:54:53.560 --> 00:54:53.800 Well, it's kind of scheme, 00:54:54.440 --> 00:54:54.940 but it's not all schemes, 00:54:58.580 --> 00:54:58.780 which is, you know, and it was just to 00:55:02.540 --> 00:55:03.040 replace EmacLisp with Gile. 00:55:06.940 --> 00:55:07.260 You have 2 both. It was similar in that way, 00:55:12.100 --> 00:55:12.340 but the thing is, Common Lisp does have a lot 00:55:12.900 --> 00:55:13.220 of interesting things. 00:55:16.120 --> 00:55:16.620 So someone wrote a closure in Common Lisp. 00:55:20.640 --> 00:55:21.140 Which is called Cloture. 00:55:29.720 --> 00:55:29.860 Someone wrote, well it's on the way but it's 00:55:35.440 --> 00:55:35.740 getting there, a standard scheme in Common 00:55:39.440 --> 00:55:39.940 Lisp. So to add support to LEM, 00:55:44.440 --> 00:55:44.940 will be as easy as import package, 00:55:46.360 --> 00:55:46.860 and you have, And if that language, 00:55:49.640 --> 00:55:50.060 which usually does, supports very well 00:55:51.740 --> 00:55:51.900 interaction between the host language and the 00:55:52.920 --> 00:55:53.420 language that tries to provide, 00:55:57.040 --> 00:55:57.180 you will mostly automatically have new 00:55:58.060 --> 00:55:58.560 language for the editor. 00:56:05.640 --> 00:56:06.100 [Speaker 4]: I think the more interesting hanging fruit 00:56:09.280 --> 00:56:09.780 would be like using Next to scrape websites, 00:56:12.500 --> 00:56:13.000 download CSV bank statements, 00:56:15.940 --> 00:56:16.440 integrating with like password managers and 00:56:27.880 --> 00:56:28.180 or using... yeah you could still do with 00:56:30.120 --> 00:56:30.620 [Speaker 2]: But isn't that more like next thing oh yeah 00:56:31.460 --> 00:56:31.580 yeah I 00:56:32.400 --> 00:56:32.520 [Speaker 4]: common list though mean what's your your 00:56:34.760 --> 00:56:35.260 other options would be Selenium, 00:56:41.200 --> 00:56:41.580 JavaScript, Next already gives you the REPL 00:56:47.940 --> 00:56:48.300 for that. Or when you had that Ambryvar talk, 00:56:50.060 --> 00:56:50.220 when he, I don't know if you watched it, 00:56:52.920 --> 00:56:53.420 but when you use a shell and a command takes 00:56:56.060 --> 00:56:56.200 takes a while It just automatically takes you 00:56:58.440 --> 00:56:58.580 back into your shell and says I'll just let 00:57:00.520 --> 00:57:00.800 this run in the background or being able to 00:57:02.760 --> 00:57:03.260 more easily run commands in parallel. 00:57:13.620 --> 00:57:13.880 [Speaker 2]: But that's not like Nix stuff, 00:57:18.740 --> 00:57:19.140 [Speaker 4]: The Ambrivar, the shell 1, 00:57:21.540 --> 00:57:21.900 [Speaker 2]: right? Not like? When he did it, 00:57:23.380 --> 00:57:23.580 he. Because 1 00:57:25.340 --> 00:57:25.440 [Speaker 4]: wasn't. of the things He did in that when he 00:57:30.040 --> 00:57:30.160 was using the repl in place of the shell is 1 00:57:31.240 --> 00:57:31.740 of the things in there was if, 00:57:33.720 --> 00:57:34.120 let's say you were compiling a program, 00:57:36.820 --> 00:57:37.040 that takes a while. If it took longer than 00:57:40.240 --> 00:57:40.440 like 3 seconds or something along those 00:57:42.560 --> 00:57:42.740 lines, it would kick you back into the shell 00:57:44.260 --> 00:57:44.660 and say, oh, we're waiting for this program 00:57:48.160 --> 00:57:48.380 [Speaker 2]: Oh, interesting. And 00:57:48.840 --> 00:57:49.340 [Speaker 4]: to run, to finish. then you could, 00:57:51.200 --> 00:57:51.600 and then it had back reference support. 00:57:55.260 --> 00:57:55.520 So you could say, Oh, app search for this 00:57:58.480 --> 00:57:58.820 program. And then with the, 00:58:00.780 --> 00:58:01.220 with the shell, I, when I want to search, 00:58:04.460 --> 00:58:04.640 I'll then grep through that list to narrow it 00:58:06.900 --> 00:58:07.180 down even further, but I do a whole new 00:58:08.400 --> 00:58:08.900 search. It just says, oh, 00:58:10.600 --> 00:58:11.100 just grep through what I already searched. 00:58:14.180 --> 00:58:14.680 Just grep through the results of the command 00:58:15.940 --> 00:58:16.440 that's 3 commands ago. 00:58:17.980 --> 00:58:18.180 [Speaker 2]: Interesting. So it 00:58:23.880 --> 00:58:24.380 [Speaker 4]: runs instantly. Or look for my build errors 00:58:25.840 --> 00:58:26.340 in my compilation output, 00:58:29.700 --> 00:58:30.060 [Speaker 0]: rather than trying to build it again grepping 00:58:30.360 --> 00:58:30.860 for the errors. 00:58:33.640 --> 00:58:34.120 [Speaker 2]: I was checking, so where's that project? 00:58:36.420 --> 00:58:36.920 I was looking for it. You know, 00:58:44.540 --> 00:58:45.040 the... Yeah, I want to check the, 00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:48.500 [Speaker 4]: There was a talk. I also had a webpage. 00:58:55.080 --> 00:58:55.580 [Speaker 2]: you know... This red bull? 00:58:58.260 --> 00:58:58.760 No, this is not what I meant. 00:59:34.174 --> 00:59:34.674 [Speaker 0]: What is it? What is it? 00:59:47.664 --> 00:59:48.164 I cannot find the... I was trying to find 00:59:54.180 --> 00:59:54.680 [Speaker 2]: the repo for... It's C-L-E-S-H, 00:59:59.640 --> 00:59:59.840 like a unit shell for interface with for 01:00:02.080 --> 01:00:02.580 common Lisp? Is that the thing? 01:00:09.000 --> 01:00:09.160 [Speaker 0]: I don't know. I'm 01:00:12.260 --> 01:00:12.760 [Speaker 4]: trying to find the link to his old, 01:00:16.560 --> 01:00:17.060 no longer website. Website. 01:00:21.500 --> 01:00:22.000 [Speaker 2]: Skip. Technical issues. 01:00:23.400 --> 01:00:23.900 Maybe this 1. 01:00:35.820 --> 01:00:36.320 I cannot find it. 01:00:37.800 --> 01:00:38.300 [Speaker 4]: I got it. 01:00:51.140 --> 01:00:51.640 [Speaker 0]: Go to that link. Okay. 01:01:02.020 --> 01:01:02.220 [Speaker 4]: There's also a FOSDM target associated with 01:01:02.380 --> 01:01:02.880 it too. 01:01:07.600 --> 01:01:08.100 [Speaker 2]: Oh yeah, interesting. Clash and CH. 01:01:13.520 --> 01:01:14.020 CH. Oh, I was looking at the clesh. 01:01:18.640 --> 01:01:19.140 Clish, so the, let's check for it. 01:01:23.560 --> 01:01:23.860 The other 1 is shell and camel. 01:01:24.120 --> 01:01:24.620 This 1. 01:01:37.505 --> 01:01:38.005 [Speaker 0]: Interesting. Oops. Close Oops. 01:01:40.900 --> 01:01:41.400 [Speaker 2]: Oh, it's a GNU project. 01:01:44.660 --> 01:01:45.160 Oh, interesting. 01:01:51.400 --> 01:01:51.680 [Speaker 4]: The other thing that was interesting there is 01:01:52.760 --> 01:01:53.260 you use those disk images, 01:02:00.140 --> 01:02:00.520 LISP images, to have some of your common LISP 01:02:05.920 --> 01:02:06.100 utilities or programming libraries that you 01:02:07.660 --> 01:02:08.040 utilize in tandem with your REPL. 01:02:13.700 --> 01:02:14.200 So you can easily pull up a more featureful 01:02:18.160 --> 01:02:18.400 or a REPL that has more tools in it than by 01:02:18.400 --> 01:02:18.900 default. 01:02:21.740 --> 01:02:22.240 [Speaker 2]: Interesting. So yeah, that's, 01:02:24.380 --> 01:02:24.880 yeah, I mean, that will be, 01:02:26.800 --> 01:02:27.100 it will be fairly, no, 01:02:28.700 --> 01:02:29.200 no, easy. Well, easy, but not, 01:02:33.080 --> 01:02:33.580 But this can be integrated into LEM probably. 01:02:36.060 --> 01:02:36.200 Very, you know, not that easy because you 01:02:38.520 --> 01:02:39.020 have to change the few things. 01:02:43.780 --> 01:02:44.280 But this can be, you know. 01:02:47.100 --> 01:02:47.600 [Speaker 4]: Well, as example, he just... 01:02:49.360 --> 01:02:49.860 Well, 1 of the things that was in the talk, 01:02:51.080 --> 01:02:51.300 1 of the main ideas was, 01:02:56.160 --> 01:02:56.380 let's just, rather than trying to make the 01:02:57.600 --> 01:02:58.040 shell closer to a REPL, 01:03:00.780 --> 01:03:01.280 let's make a REPL closer to a shell, 01:03:03.380 --> 01:03:03.760 make it to where we can easily run Linux 01:03:07.280 --> 01:03:07.420 programs in it, and then use the rest of the 01:03:10.120 --> 01:03:10.620 REPL goodness, make it to where parentheses 01:03:12.080 --> 01:03:12.580 are easy to use, like paraedit, 01:03:20.920 --> 01:03:21.420 And then all of a sudden you have a nicer 01:03:24.320 --> 01:03:24.640 shell. Not really shell, 01:03:24.640 --> 01:03:25.140 but. 01:03:30.020 --> 01:03:30.520 [Speaker 2]: Oh, this is huge. 01:03:33.520 --> 01:03:33.960 [Speaker 6]: Hi, folks. Sorry for the interruption. 01:03:35.200 --> 01:03:35.700 It's Leo from the general track. 01:03:39.380 --> 01:03:39.600 We are about to go back live on the 01:03:41.880 --> 01:03:42.040 development track, so you can continue the 01:03:43.080 --> 01:03:43.480 discussion. You know, we are recording 01:03:45.200 --> 01:03:45.360 everything and you seem to be having a great 01:03:47.520 --> 01:03:47.840 amount of fun to issue the need for lunch, 01:03:49.080 --> 01:03:49.580 at least for the people in the US. 01:03:51.160 --> 01:03:51.360 I just want to let you know, 01:03:53.680 --> 01:03:53.860 in 2 minutes' time, we will be moving back to 01:03:54.840 --> 01:03:55.340 the rest of the talk for the afternoon, 01:03:56.840 --> 01:03:57.040 but feel free to stay in a room and keep 01:03:57.760 --> 01:03:58.260 discussing. All right? 01:04:01.160 --> 01:04:01.660 [Speaker 2]: Thank you. All right. 01:04:03.640 --> 01:04:03.940 [Speaker 6]: It might be a little brutal in 2 minutes, 01:04:07.920 --> 01:04:08.240 so if you have your watch synchronized at 7 01:04:09.080 --> 01:04:09.520 sharps, so in 2 minutes, 01:04:10.040 --> 01:04:10.540 it'll cut off. 01:04:19.600 --> 01:04:20.100 [Speaker 2]: Okay. Bye-bye. Bye. Oh my. 01:04:23.860 --> 01:04:24.360 Yeah. Interesting stuff indeed. 01:04:29.380 --> 01:04:29.540 [Speaker 4]: to listen to it after you're done with the 01:04:32.380 --> 01:04:32.540 [Speaker 0]: I guess you have Have you 01:04:33.480 --> 01:04:33.980 [Speaker 4]: comp. ever listened to that talk before? 01:04:38.320 --> 01:04:38.800 The 1 that's in that webpage, 01:04:39.380 --> 01:04:39.880 the FOSDEM 1. 01:04:40.840 --> 01:04:41.340 [Speaker 2]: Which 1? Sorry? 0 yeah, 01:04:44.480 --> 01:04:44.980 I in fact saw him live in the FOSDEM 2020. 01:04:50.053 --> 01:04:50.091 [Speaker 0]: So I a little bit. 2020. 01:04:50.166 --> 01:04:50.204 So we him 01:04:51.760 --> 01:04:51.980 [Speaker 2]: talked with him a little bit The first time 01:04:55.760 --> 01:04:56.260 is here in well here in Europe here in 01:05:01.320 --> 01:05:01.440 Brussels like 3 hours away or 2 hours away in 01:05:02.320 --> 01:05:02.820 plane from where I am. 01:05:05.320 --> 01:05:05.800 [Speaker 0]: 1 of the things that's kind of interesting 01:05:06.900 --> 01:05:07.040 with, you have some of 01:05:09.060 --> 01:05:09.160 [Speaker 4]: the people who come from Europe to the US and 01:05:11.820 --> 01:05:11.980 they're like, oh, I want to visit all the 01:05:13.780 --> 01:05:14.060 corners of the US in a couple of days. 01:05:17.920 --> 01:05:18.420 And it's like, No, US is the size of Europe. 01:05:19.740 --> 01:05:19.960 [Speaker 0]: The 01:05:21.160 --> 01:05:21.660 [Speaker 4]: states are the size of their countries. 01:05:23.140 --> 01:05:23.400 You don't... 01:05:27.100 --> 01:05:27.600 [Speaker 2]: I know. I know. It's very... 01:05:30.660 --> 01:05:31.080 It's huge. And it's like 6 hours different 01:05:32.280 --> 01:05:32.780 from coast to coast, something like that. 01:05:38.000 --> 01:05:38.240 [Speaker 4]: Yeah, and that's driving as fast as you can 01:05:39.960 --> 01:05:40.140 on the freeway, on the best roads that you 01:05:41.160 --> 01:05:41.660 possibly can, not taking... 01:05:45.700 --> 01:05:46.200 [Speaker 2]: Yeah, that would be... 01:05:53.400 --> 01:05:53.900 So the thing that I try to do also with LEM 01:05:57.880 --> 01:05:58.140 is to move my workflow from LEM to Emax, 01:06:01.620 --> 01:06:02.120 so for Emax to LEM, use it more. 01:06:07.080 --> 01:06:07.580 And I hope to, we still have a long way to go 01:06:08.440 --> 01:06:08.940 in terms of usability, 01:06:10.600 --> 01:06:11.100 in terms of other things, 01:06:12.640 --> 01:06:13.140 because we need more power. 01:06:18.420 --> 01:06:18.620 So This is also my attempt to do some 01:06:20.320 --> 01:06:20.820 publicity to the Blend project itself, 01:06:23.100 --> 01:06:23.600 to need to add more users, 01:06:26.200 --> 01:06:26.700 to be willing to try and to fail trying, 01:06:29.640 --> 01:06:30.140 because we still have some rough edges. 01:06:38.320 --> 01:06:38.820 Yeah, just trying to do that, 01:06:41.720 --> 01:06:42.220 which is, and I apologize to the Emaclist 01:06:43.580 --> 01:06:43.740 community, which I'm part of, 01:06:44.660 --> 01:06:45.140 but I don't want to like, 01:06:47.020 --> 01:06:47.520 disencourage the use of getting Emacs anyway. 01:06:48.960 --> 01:06:49.460 I think both are awesome. 01:06:51.300 --> 01:06:51.800 I want to anyone to get a real impression. 01:06:57.040 --> 01:06:57.100 [Speaker 0]: What do 01:06:57.740 --> 01:06:58.240 [Speaker 2]: you think? PlasmaStrike, 01:07:01.560 --> 01:07:02.060 you have a very powerful name. 01:07:07.580 --> 01:07:07.840 [Speaker 4]: I don't think that's something to worry 01:07:09.660 --> 01:07:10.160 about. I don't personally, 01:07:15.380 --> 01:07:15.760 but I'm going to watch the EMMS talk. 01:07:17.360 --> 01:07:17.560 That's something that I don't really use too 01:07:20.800 --> 01:07:21.220 much on my Emacs config. 01:07:22.600 --> 01:07:23.100 So I'm going to let you go. 01:07:24.440 --> 01:07:24.720 [Speaker 2]: OK, yeah, I'm going to go. 01:07:26.320 --> 01:07:26.760 I'm going to maybe watch the garbage 01:07:27.800 --> 01:07:28.300 collector talk, which is interesting. 01:07:32.540 --> 01:07:33.040 So thank you all very much. 01:07:35.860 --> 01:07:36.080 I'm gonna go. Thanks for the questions and 01:07:40.811 --> 01:07:41.288 all that. I think I hope I answered correctly 01:07:47.040 --> 01:07:47.540 [Speaker 4]: is part of the value of being part of this is 01:07:50.580 --> 01:07:50.740 [Speaker 2]: all of them. Yeah, I figure this that's a way 01:07:52.540 --> 01:07:53.040 [Speaker 4]: conversations. So of saying thank you for 01:07:54.480 --> 01:07:54.980 people sharing interesting talks. 01:07:57.780 --> 01:07:57.940 [Speaker 2]: Indeed. Thank you all very much for going to 01:08:02.380 --> 01:08:02.880 the Emacs conf and to watch me. 01:08:06.440 --> 01:08:06.940 So thank you all very much. 01:08:09.360 --> 01:08:09.860 I'm going to go do that. 01:08:10.640 --> 01:08:10.890 [Speaker 0]: See you.