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Diffstat (limited to '2021/talks')
42 files changed, 1509 insertions, 103 deletions
diff --git a/2021/talks/babel.md b/2021/talks/babel.md index 19fa63f5..cd28d54b 100644 --- a/2021/talks/babel.md +++ b/2021/talks/babel.md @@ -7,6 +7,8 @@ # Babel for academics Asilata Bapat +[[!taglink CategoryOrgMode]] + [[!inline pages="internal(2021/info/babel-schedule)" raw="yes"]] Plain org-mode is already an extremely powerful and @@ -54,6 +56,28 @@ would also like to be inspired by other people's babel workflows! IRC nick: asilata +Pad: + +- Q1: The talk was amazing thanks! I show the img inline in the Org + file with org-toggle-inline-images, maybe useful to others too. + - A: Thanks! I do that if I want to look at previews, too, but + sometimes it slows down my document. Any tips for that? +- Q2: I always tried to use Tikz for showing diagrams in Org Mode + documents, but dot code blocks definitively make drawing graphics + easier! Thanks for sharing! + - Remark by Karl: In my personal workflows, I love the abstraction + layer of <https://plantuml.com/> + +From BBB: + +- Don't have a question, just to say inspiring to see how you use org-mode + babel. Thx! +- Ha, a question, is your setup online somewhere? +- Asilata Bapat: <https://github.com/asilata/emacsconf2021> +- thanks so much for the presentation and sharing the details of your workflow +- I particularly appreciated your "causal use" of skel :D + +IRC: + - the export-setup block is a great use case for orgstrap :) - asilata: I was just thinking that after the orgstrap presentation :) - Man I was just wondering how to write LateX in Emacs this is incredible. @@ -69,13 +93,15 @@ IRC nick: asilata - some very nice examples of wicked-cool org stuff there :) - I also use python to generate latex from babel so that I don't mess things up -From BBB: +From [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ooi4KAd2FM&feature=em-comments): -- Don't have a question, just to say inspiring to see how you use org-mode + babel. Thx! -- Ha, a question, is your setup online somewhere? -- Asilata Bapat: <https://github.com/asilata/emacsconf2021> -- thanks so much for the presentation and sharing the details of your workflow -- I particularly appreciated your "causal use" of skel :D +- Cool talk! I suggest to export your diagrams to some vector format (PDF, SVG, etc.) if you (as you say) embed it in LaTeX/PDF later. Otherwise, you can see blur on a large enough scale. + + +Links: + +- <https://asilata.github.io/ggm/2021/> +- <https://github.com/asilata/emacsconf2021/> # Speaker information - Name pronunciation: /ˈəsɪʟət̪ɑ ˈbɑpəʈ/ UH-si-luh-tah BAH-putt diff --git a/2021/talks/bidi.md b/2021/talks/bidi.md index 6038cf48..5669a817 100644 --- a/2021/talks/bidi.md +++ b/2021/talks/bidi.md @@ -127,6 +127,36 @@ of bidi on existing emacs applications, including: # Discussion +Pad: + +- Q1: is there any additions that you have to add to emacs for using + non-English/latin characters or does it work mostly out of the box? + - A: [Prot] : I only set the default-input-method to "greek". + Then switch to it with C- (toggle-input-method) +- Q2: One stuggle I have with this input method option is, why not use + an IME that's installed on the host OS? + - A:I live inside Emacs, and that the host OS typically provides + an unintelligent keyboard, and Farsi and transliterate BANAN + provides multi-character input, which is a lot more powerful. +- Q3: Do you write any lisp or other code/markup with these scripts? + (Sorry if I missed you mentioning this.) + - A:No, everything is in pure Elisp. +- Q4: What alternatives have you looked into for solving the problem + related to your markup language idea? What isn't achieved by them? + - A:The way that Emacs has evovled about properties about string + and text. And I suggest we adopt the "web" model for Emacs + application development. If you step back and look at where we + are, there's no such thing as no 'emacs native markup language + mode' similar to HTML for web. Emacs's display engine is + capable of doing everything, but we're not exposing .... + (sorry, missed this part) + - Makes sense to me, thanks! +- Q5: bandali: genenrally curious about the state of writing/reading + Persian in the TTY +- Q6: Does your input method also solves problems with exporting + doctuments ? usually when you exporting a Persian-Enlight doc it + redirects the Persian scripts to LTR + Questions/comments: - Thanks for giving such a nice presentation of the Emacs input method framework! I'm just curious about if you've made any plans for setting up your markup language? I know you said you hadn't written any code for it yet. diff --git a/2021/talks/binary.md b/2021/talks/binary.md deleted file mode 100644 index 8181050c..00000000 --- a/2021/talks/binary.md +++ /dev/null @@ -1,31 +0,0 @@ -[[!meta title="Turbo Bindat"]] -[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2021 Stefan Monnier"]] -[[!inline pages="internal(2021/info/binary-nav)" raw="yes"]] - -<!-- You can manually edit this file to update the abstract, add links, etc. ---> - - -# Turbo Bindat -Stefan Monnier - -[[!inline pages="internal(2021/info/binary-schedule)" raw="yes"]] - -Bindat is an ELisp library to help manipulate binary data. - This is a niche library that is used by packages such as Websocket, - EMMS, and cpio-mode. Its implementation was repeatedly caught - harassing hapless kitten while at the same time providing poor - service slowly. For Emacs-28, Bindat was rewritten so as - to make it more efficient and flexible while respecting the kitten. - In this presentation I intent to show how we saved those. - Not recommended for birds. - -- ~20 minutes: - 5 min: Intro and presentation of Bindat - 5 min: Showcase some of its problems - 5 min: Present the new design - 5 min: Examples of what can be done with it - - -[[!inline pages="internal(2021/captions/binary)" raw="yes"]] - -[[!inline pages="internal(2021/info/binary-nav)" raw="yes"]] diff --git a/2021/talks/bindat.md b/2021/talks/bindat.md index 87da714b..e9cfffaa 100644 --- a/2021/talks/bindat.md +++ b/2021/talks/bindat.md @@ -25,8 +25,58 @@ show how we saved those. Not recommended for birds. # Discussion +- Q1: bindat seems very similar to GNU Poke (except that GNU Poke is a + superset, and then some, with a different syntax). I'm wondering if + it might be good to add a bindat variant that translates to/from + Poke if need be (using libpoke), for sheer insane blazing + native-code JITted speed. (And, later, maybe letting bindat gain + some of the insanely expressive capabilities GNU Poke has got). Its + use of eval blocked this in times past. but now... + - A:GNU Poke is indeed the natural evolution, and is much more + powerful. Given the fairly little use of BinDat so far, I'm + not sure there will be enough motivation to give access to GNU + Poke from Emacs, tho. One of the main benefits of using GNU + Poke would probably be that lots of formats are already + available for GNU Poke, so you could directly re-use them. +- Q2: Is your dog's name something Lisp or PL related...? :) + - A:Winnie? I don't think so, no (we didn't choose the name, in + any case) +- Q3: This looks amazing! Is it merged into mainline Emacs, a patch, + an external library? + - A: It's in Emacs-28 +- Q4: Are there benchmarks of this vs. the older bindat? + - A:There is a benchmark for it in the `elisp-benchmarks` +- Q5: Do you know of any CL or Scheme libs similar to bindat.el? + - A: No, but I'd be interested to hear about it if someone else + does. +- Q7: You are a hero of kittens everywhere. Do you have any feline + pets as well? :) + - A: Not yet. If you're near Montreal and you have a kitten for + me, I'm interested - I *hope* cl-loop is more efficient than building a bunch of intermediate lists when you chain map/filter/reduce operations. +- Curious: how is gnu poke more flexible? +- What hobbies/interests do you have besides Emacs (and PL)? :) +- do you have any thoughts about how to make EmacsConf even better next year? +- I was surprised to see that a whole new DSL was developed for poke from scratch. Do you think would have been better to develop/improve a library like bindat on top of an existing language instead? +- What are some of your favorite talks from this conf so far? +- what kind of dog is Winnie? + - comment: I hadn't heard of that breed before +- How do you see more control over types (type hints/decl through type specifiers etc) (SBCL like programming model) coming into Elisp? +- Do you plan to add bit-level support? +Other comments: + +- I can imagine using bindat to improve Emacs's music player packages +- yes last year the Q&A periods were much longer + - last year some of the presentations were live though +- I've asked this question to them during LPC 2020 but infact haven't got a very satisfactory answer :) +- If you ever write a library for window management in Emacs, you could call it winnie.el :) +- hints in unoptimized code should be assertions +- we probably need both ways of compiling: safe and less safe :) +- I think this is classic problem that is almost impossible to accomplish. many libraries try to do that but in the end the only working ones are relaying on C compilers. +- also you have the problem of size of objects. like how big is a long? this is not specified and is arch dependent +- parsing a generic .h file is way more difficult but is another subject. +- yep, the automatic translation is more for libraries trying to write automatically C bindings [[!inline pages="internal(2021/captions/bindat)" raw="yes"]] diff --git a/2021/talks/build.md b/2021/talks/build.md index 7ec0da46..c8edc0d8 100644 --- a/2021/talks/build.md +++ b/2021/talks/build.md @@ -8,10 +8,16 @@ # How to build an Emacs Fermin MF - - [[!inline pages="internal(2021/info/build-schedule)" raw="yes"]] +[[!template id="help" +summary="main talk does not have captions" +volunteer="João Pedro" +tags="help_with_main_captions" +message="""This talk does not have captions yet. Would you like to help [caption this talk](/2021/contribute/#edit-captions)? You may be able to start with these +[autogenerated captions](https://media.emacsconf.org/2021/emacsconf-2021-build--how-to-build-an-emacs--fermin-mf--main.vtt) +and [timing information](https://media.emacsconf.org/2021/emacsconf-2021-build--how-to-build-an-emacs--fermin-mf.en.srv2)."""]] + This is a deep dive in the Emacs philosophical and technical aspect on what makes our beloved GNU Emacs what it it. It's also a talk about the early LISP machines and @@ -30,6 +36,19 @@ For more details about CEDAR: <https://gitlab.com/sasanidas/cedar> # Discussion +Pad: + +- Q1: Which level of compatibility with GNU Emacs do you want to achieve? + - A: I want to achieve 100% compatibility (when possible) +- Q2: Are you then planning to reimplment all Emacs C primitives? + - A:No, the underlayer would be different +- Q3: Do you plan on doing something to ease interaction between redundant "components" in both Elisp and Common Lisp (like CLOS and EIEIO)? How about semantic differences between both? + - A: (Probably answered by voice.) +- Q4: Have you used Nyxt, which is Emacs-like and written in Common Lisp? If so, what did you think about it? + - A: I think it's a great project and I would like to use it as a my main Browse (with the firefox extension layer) +- Q5: "Emacs is a great operating system, just lacking a good editor." How do you feel about the push to use Emacs as a full computing interface, and do you think Cedar could thrive in some of the fully common lisp system ideas that might catch on (like Robert Strandh's proposed CLOSOS)? + - A: I think CEDAR can achieve more integration with the OS (the same as the CL implementations) but I think the goal of been a good Emacs is good enought + IRC nick: akrl - I think the performance stuff is mostly orthogonal to elisp. ex. very large files or files with really long lines grind horribly. diff --git a/2021/talks/clede.md b/2021/talks/clede.md index 71178af7..59bb10f6 100644 --- a/2021/talks/clede.md +++ b/2021/talks/clede.md @@ -5,11 +5,9 @@ <!-- You can manually edit this file to update the abstract, add links, etc. ---> -# CLEDE the Common Lisp Emacs Development Environment. +# CLEDE the Common Lisp Emacs Development Environment Fermin MF - - [[!inline pages="internal(2021/info/clede-schedule)" raw="yes"]] I've been developing a package that helps with the development of @@ -30,6 +28,15 @@ For more details: <https://gitlab.com/sasanidas/clede> and then An explanation on how to use the package, how to extend it and the future of it. +# Discussion + +Pad: + +- Q1: You mentioned clede-start - is there also some kind of clede-stop? (I often get frustrated with functionality that I cannot disable / revert) + - A: There is no stop, you should never stop doing common lisp :) +- Q2: Is writing common lisp a big context switch between elisp? + - A: In some regards, it is, Ithink even more when you work Common Lisp professionally. + [[!inline pages="internal(2021/captions/clede)" raw="yes"]] diff --git a/2021/talks/cs.md b/2021/talks/cs.md index 931b323e..0b1fb3ad 100644 --- a/2021/talks/cs.md +++ b/2021/talks/cs.md @@ -8,7 +8,7 @@ # One effective CS grad student workflow Greg Coladonato - +[[!taglink CategoryOrgMode]] [[!inline pages="internal(2021/info/cs-schedule)" raw="yes"]] @@ -24,6 +24,27 @@ inspire others to build workflows that make them more productive. IRC nick: gcoladon +Pad: + +- Q1: Can org-roam also be used with EPUB files? It would be nice to + make notes for books as well. + - A: Interesting question -- I've never considered doing it that + way. When there is a textbook I want to take notes on, I find + the PDF for the textbook and split it into one PDF file per + section or chapter, and then use those PDFs just like any other + PDFs. What do you like about EPUB files? +- Q2: How does pdf-tools not being maintained as it used to affect + you. Since emacs have replaced image magic library and pdf-tools is + dependent on it how are you going to transition your work flow? + - A: Hmm I have not considered this at all. Is there some time in + the near future at which pdf-tools will stop working on the + current version of Emacs? I was not aware of that if that's the + case. Thanks for bringing that to my attention! +- Q3: Your workflow is very impressive. Would it be possible that you + share your emacs configuration files? (via email) + - A: Yes, I will work on collecting up the bits of elisp that make + up that configuration and share it , probably via Github gist. + BBB: - I'm trying to develop one, but haven't spent enough time on it. (My interests are mostly related to programming language standards and history, and the PDFs are generally enormous and inscrutable.) diff --git a/2021/talks/dashboard.md b/2021/talks/dashboard.md index d20c3804..53572fff 100644 --- a/2021/talks/dashboard.md +++ b/2021/talks/dashboard.md @@ -54,6 +54,24 @@ easily managed from Emacs within a single Org-Mode file. # Discussion +- Q1: I know almost nothing about this stuff so please forgive my + ignorance (Actually, I did I dip a toe into some basic jail + breakage a few years ago and was delighted/intimidated to find a + capable community on mobilereads, as you mentioned; I was living + cheaply at the time, and having KUAL and KO and kterm around + improved my QOL considerably.) As for your talk, I enjoyed it very + much. I was wondering if you'd given any thought to possible + real-world applications for your dashboards. Just spitballing a + bit, a few possibilities came to mind, like perhaps disseminating + information on a work floor or lab setting where cable runs or + temperature increases from LCD monitors might be unwelcome; or + perhaps doing so in more a public setting like a refugee or + detention camp where power might be limited and where mounting TVs + behind protective glass or restraining them with cables might be + bad for morale. Also, have you thought about putting together + and/or selling "kits" so folks with limited time could acquire a + basic setup as a turnkey solution (perhaps with some assembly + required)? Thanks. - Hi. Lovely idea to use an ebook reader as dashboard. Are all kindle devices supported or only older ones? - Mehmet Tekman: I recorded this in two parts: with caffeine, and without - As soon as i can get my hands on a kindle i will give this a try. Lovely Idea. @@ -76,6 +94,16 @@ easily managed from Emacs within a single Org-Mode file. - Mehmet Tekman: Welcome! For a more stripped down version I can really heavily recommend the kindle-dashboard from Pascal Widdershoven - Mehmet Tekman: And yep -- I can definitely relate! +Links: + +- Main Repo : <https://gitlab.com/mtekman/kindle-sync> +- Mobile Read Forum (Kindle) : + <https://www.mobileread.com/forums/showthread.php?t=180113> +- Mentioned Repos : + - <https://gitlab.com/mtekman/org-calories.el> + - <https://github.com/takaxp/org-tree-slide> + - <https://github.com/pascalw/kindle-dash> + # Outline - 5-10 minutes: diff --git a/2021/talks/day1-close.md b/2021/talks/day1-close.md index 7c825a63..0425d237 100644 --- a/2021/talks/day1-close.md +++ b/2021/talks/day1-close.md @@ -21,12 +21,20 @@ # Discussion +- Q1: To anyone who can answer this, what is a good method to request + speakers for next EmacsConf? + - A: Encourage the speaker directly when you see the next call for proposals. +- Q3: Is there a way to donate to the volunteers of EmacsConf? + - A: sachac: That's very thoughtful of you! We cover EmacsConf costs out of pocket. I think the speakers have some support links on their pages. So if you particularly liked a talk, please feel free to e-mail a speaker or see if they have a tip jar! + - sachac: also, if you want to contribute time by volunteering to help with EmacsConf this year or next year, that would be even better =) For example, it was super-helpful to have a couple of volunteers help me caption all the day 1 talks and most of the day 2 talks this year, _and_ they got early access to all the talks and could caption the talks they wanted. We did the captioning using subed.el in Emacs, using the speakers' Org files or autogenerated captions from Youtube as starting points. + - sachac: for example, if some people could help with streaming alternate tracks, we could have longer talks and longer Q&As, because I think we're just going to have more and more awesome Emacs talks, and I think we're reaching the limit of how much we can physically squeeze into two days ;) so our current strategy is lots of short talks/demos, and then people can learn more about the stuff that they find interesting. but it would be so nice to have more deep dives too. + - I think having alternate tracks is a great idea sachac, I think I noticed that speakers were very rushed because time was tight, and it'd be cool to that have that alleviated. And it would likely reduce stress for you guys so that technical issues aren't as dire. + - maybe if we can figure out some topics that would be good to dive deeper into (attendee feedback) that could be looked in to +- Q4: How can we sign up to volunteer for next year if there is need? + - A: <https://emacsconf.org/2021/contribute/> has some ideas and + an e-mail address you can reach us at. + - Is there any documentation anywhere how to give financial support to EmacsConf? - - sachac: That's very thoughtful of you! We cover EmacsConf costs out of pocket. I think the speakers have some support links on their pages. So if you particularly liked a talk, please feel free to e-mail a speaker or see if they have a tip jar! - - sachac: also, if you want to contribute time by volunteering to help with EmacsConf this year or next year, that would be even better =) For example, it was super-helpful to have a couple of volunteers help me caption all the day 1 talks and most of the day 2 talks this year, _and_ they got early access to all the talks and could caption the talks they wanted. We did the captioning using subed.el in Emacs, using the speakers' Org files or autogenerated captions from Youtube as starting points. - - sachac: for example, if some people could help with streaming alternate tracks, we could have longer talks and longer Q&As, because I think we're just going to have more and more awesome Emacs talks, and I think we're reaching the limit of how much we can physically squeeze into two days ;) so our current strategy is lots of short talks/demos, and then people can learn more about the stuff that they find interesting. but it would be so nice to have more deep dives too. - - I think having alternate tracks is a great idea sachac, I think I noticed that speakers were very rushed because time was tight, and it'd be cool to that have that alleviated. And it would likely reduce stress for you guys so that technical issues aren't as dire. - - maybe if we can figure out some topics that would be good to dive deeper into (attendee feedback) that could be looked in to - maybe each presentation should allocated five or ten minutes for a Q&A session afterwards before the next presentation starts. - the subtitles are really good! you can tell it was human-written :) even nasty names are right - Love the citations in subtitles. diff --git a/2021/talks/day1-open.md b/2021/talks/day1-open.md index 8c3f4b3b..47bc4a0b 100644 --- a/2021/talks/day1-open.md +++ b/2021/talks/day1-open.md @@ -19,7 +19,7 @@ - Lots of talks! Shorter time, Q&A might be live/pad/IRC, might have alternate stream if needed - Streaming with open captions thanks to volunteers - all the day 1 talks have been captioned, and we might get day 2 sorted out too - Prerecorded videos will be published as soon as we can (aiming for publishing them as the talks stream, so you can easily catch up with any talks you've missed) - - APAC-time-friendly alternate stream by LibreAustralia folks <https://libreau.org/upcoming.html#emacsconf21> + - APAC-time-friendly alternate stream by LibreAustralia folks <https://libreau.org/past.html#emacsconf21> - Thanks - Speakers, volunteers - Karl Voit for managing the pad diff --git a/2021/talks/design.md b/2021/talks/design.md index 943114b4..84a89de9 100644 --- a/2021/talks/design.md +++ b/2021/talks/design.md @@ -38,6 +38,50 @@ alternatives using GNU Emacs. # Discussion +- Q1: Do you have any plans for somewhat scientific testing of colors, + layout, etc? + - A: There are already some studies on the usefulness of + colorization but they're not consistent. I would love to make a + study with some students but it's a bit beyond my expertise. +- Q2: I have really enjoyed looking at the development of NANO emacs. + The only thing I slightly disagree with are the colours: on my + system some of them are extremely low-contrast and faded. Otherwise + the design is fantastic! Do you have any comments on the colour + scheme? + - A: I think you're right and I might need to revise the color + scheme, taking inspiration (or copying) some of the colors from + modus themes since Prot designed proper colors backed by + scientific theory. +- Q3: Are your examples hand-selected from design-perspective or does + "everything" look good automatically with your setup? + - A: Screenshots I've shown are available on GitHub and you + should obtain the same if you install them. Some parts come from + my personal configuration (org-agenda and mu4e mostly) but I can + post the code if you're interested. +- Q4: Should we use monocromatic colour schemes over full-coloured + ones? + - A: I'm not sure I can answer this question, I would need to + search if there are any recommendation on that matter. +- Q5: Are there ways that emacs could be improved to make these kinds + of usability experiments easier and more accessible to users? For + example making it easier to switch between such experiments? + - A: <https://github.com/plexus/chemacs> is a perfect answer. It + allows you to switch from one configuration to another without + messing up your own. +- Q6: Would it be possible to integrate nano emacs design to default + emacs design? What would the pushback be for integrating "better" + UI changes? + - A: I think Emacs would benefit from better defaults and I would + vote for modus themes to be the new default theme. Next would be + to package Emacs with a decent font (e.g. Julia Mono, Iosevka, + Inconsolata, Victor Mono) that would really help changing the + first impression of new users. Last would be to tweak a the + mode-line a bit. +- Q7:Spellchecking now highlights the whole word, to me this is a bit + too emphasized. Are there plans to make these less intrusive; i.e. + underline or similar? (And no, no bright red crinkles ;) + - A: Good point, can you open an issuer on GitHub? + - What's this theme? - i'll be sharing this with my friends that praise on vscode - Wow, incredible analysis of that editor. @@ -59,6 +103,8 @@ alternatives using GNU Emacs. - hmmm maybe Emacs needs to be able to handle WOFF! sounds like a job for fontconfig, I might look at it some day - Nano Emacs + modus-themes would be a perfect combination, as it were. +- From [YouTube](www.youtube.com/watch?v=7OTe26RZH9A&feature=em-comments): Great efforts & I'm rooting for you! but you might consider rebranding, because of the GNU nano text editor (22 years of recognition) + # Contact information * Contact [nicolas.rougier@inria.fr](mailto:nicolas.rougier@inria.fr) * Follow my work at [github.com/rougier](https://github.com/rougier) diff --git a/2021/talks/eaf.md b/2021/talks/eaf.md index 78a52c78..3c8f9bf3 100644 --- a/2021/talks/eaf.md +++ b/2021/talks/eaf.md @@ -17,8 +17,73 @@ last year, this talk will briefly go over them. # Feedback +Pad: + +- Q1: is there any additions that you have to add to emacs for using + non-English/latin characters or does it work mostly out of the box? + - A: [Prot] : I only set the default-input-method to "greek". + Then switch to it with C- (toggle-input-method) +- Q1: Any plans for supporting other languages? It'd be great to use EAF to offload processing to Common Lisp, for example. + - A: You're able to use Python & JavaScrpt/Vue to extend on top of Elisp, it is so far enough (Python for Qt apps and JS for web apps). Currently I don't see a clear advantage of using Common Lisp as well, but there could definitely be a support in theory. +- Q2: is there an eaf-app that's not a bootstrapping nightmare? (having Vue as a dependency, eg) + - A: I don't fully understand what you mean by "bootstrapping nightmare", all these dependencies are system dependencies that you install like any other system dependency, it doesn't slow the Emacs startup nor the system startup. But if you're asking for an app suggestion with lightweight dependencies without JS or Vue dependencies, the popular EAF Browser and EAF PDF Viewer are cool app options. +- Q3: Are there security implications to having a browser in emacs? + - A [opalvaults]: With how Emacs deals with things like GPG/pass/etc. I feel like it's probably as secure as you make it? + - A: [matthewzmd] the browser application is independent from emacs itself, you're using a browser in emacs, but the browser is not actually *in* emacs. The browser is QtWebEngine, a modified Chromium without Google stuff, it is as safe as a Chromium can be. +- Q4: maybe i misunderstood, but is every eaf app essentially embedded QT? + - A: yes, it's built upon qt-webengine + - A: Yes, it uses PyQt5 and it's essentially painting the Qt frame on top of emacs, simulating a buffer. EPC is used for Elisp <-> Python <-> JS communication so that you can extend Emacs in various langauges + - Q: I guess/hope this is using qtwebengine, not qtwebkit? + - A: right, qtwebengine. If you wanna dig more into the internals of EAF, I suggest you to read this part of the Wiki (https://github.com/emacs-eaf/emacs-application-framework/wiki/Hacking) or my talk from last year (https://emacsconf.org/2020/talks/34/) +- Q5: Can the EAF dependencies be made into dynamically loadable modules for Emacs, so there will be no need to rebuilt Emacs? + - A: There is no need to rebuilt Emacs, they're simply dependencies that you can install using the system package managers (pacman, apt, etc), npm install and pip install + IRC nick: matthewzmd +- Q1: Any plans for supporting other languages? It'd be great to use + EAF to offload processing to Common Lisp, for example. + - A: You're able to use Python & JavaScrpt/Vue to extend on top + of Elisp, it is so far enough (Python for Qt apps and JS for web + apps). Currently I don't see a clear advantage of using Common + Lisp as well, but there could definitely be a support in theory. +- Q2: is there an eaf-app that's not a bootstrapping nightmare? + (having Vue as a dependency, eg) + - A: I don't fully understand what you mean by "bootstrapping + nightmare", all these dependencies are system dependencies that + you install like any other system dependency, it doesn't slow + the Emacs startup nor the system startup. But if you're asking + for an app suggestion with lightweight dependencies without JS + or Vue dependencies, the popular EAF Browser and EAF PDF Viewer + are cool app options. +- Q3: Are there security implications to having a browser in emacs? + - A [opalvaults]: With how Emacs deals with things like + GPG/pass/etc. I feel like it's probably as secure as you make + it? + - A: [matthewzmd] the browser application is independent from + emacs itself, you're using a browser in emacs, but the browser + is not actually *in* emacs. The browser is QtWebEngine, a + modified Chromium without Google stuff, it is as safe as a + Chromium can be. +- Q4: maybe i misunderstood, but is every eaf app essentially embedded + QT? + - A: yes, it's built upon qt-webengine + - A: Yes, it uses PyQt5 and it's essentially painting the Qt + frame on top of emacs, simulating a buffer. EPC is used for + Elisp <-> Python <-> JS communication so that you can extend + Emacs in various langauges + - Q: I guess/hope this is using qtwebengine, not qtwebkit? + - A: right, qtwebengine. If you wanna dig more into the + internals of EAF, I suggest you to read this part of the + Wiki + (<https://github.com/emacs-eaf/emacs-application-framework/wiki/Hacking)> + or my talk from last year + (<https://emacsconf.org/2020/talks/34/)> +- Q5: Can the EAF dependencies be made into dynamically loadable + modules for Emacs, so there will be no need to rebuilt Emacs? + - A: There is no need to rebuilt Emacs, they're simply + dependencies that you can install using the system package + managers (pacman, apt, etc), npm install and pip install + - One thing I never tried watching all this is viewing PDF files within emacs. - is there an eaf-app that's not a bootstrapping nightmare? I suppose having Vue as dependency makes that not so for a large number - This is pretty cool, from a security standpoint, I'm not sure I'd want a web browser in emacs all that much. @@ -31,6 +96,17 @@ IRC nick: matthewzmd - I guess/hope this is using qtwebengine, not qtwebkit? ('cos qtwebkit is unmaintained and by now massively insecure) - matthewzmd: if you wanna dig more into the internals of EAF, I suggest you to read this part of the Wiki (<https://github.com/emacs-eaf/emacs-application-framework/wiki/Hacking>) or my talk from last year (<https://emacsconf.org/2020/talks/34/>) +Links and other notes: + +- <https://github.com/emacs-eaf/emacs-application-framework> +- <https://github.com/emacs-eaf/eaf-file-manager> +- <https://github.com/emacs-eaf/eaf-rss-reader> +- <https://github.com/manateelazycat/popweb> +- if you wanna dig more into the internals of EAF, I suggest you to + read this part of the Wiki + (<https://github.com/emacs-eaf/emacs-application-framework/wiki/Hacking)> + or my talk from last year (<https://emacsconf.org/2020/talks/34/)> + [[!inline pages="internal(2021/captions/eaf)" raw="yes"]] [[!inline pages="internal(2021/info/eaf-nav)" raw="yes"]] diff --git a/2021/talks/faster.md b/2021/talks/faster.md index e8a13489..0434db61 100644 --- a/2021/talks/faster.md +++ b/2021/talks/faster.md @@ -30,6 +30,59 @@ Preferred contact info | <dgutov@yandex.ru> IRC nick: dgutov +Pad: + +- Q1: Why are overlays slow compared to text-properties? I (believe + to) understand that it is (in part only?) due to "get element n in + vector vs list". If so, then why don't we change that? There could + be a text-property called "overlays", so that lookup would also be + like in a vector. What benefits does the datastructure currently + used for overlays have that make that undesirable? Would a mixed + approach make sense; i.e. allow non-modifiyng lookups to use the + "cached" overlays that are stored in the "overlay" text-property + and make text-inserting and overlay-moving actions store in the + currently used datastructure as well as in the indirect + text-property=>overlay cache? + - A: "There is a pending patch to represent the set of a + buffer's overlays as an AAtree or somesuch.." + - Sounds promising :) + - For more details, check out these threads: + - <https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2014-09/msg00616.html> + - <https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2016-11/msg00475.html> + - <https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2018-03/msg00565.html> + - <https://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/emacs-devel/2019-12/msg00115.html> +- Q2: As a non-programmer, would these sorts of optimizations be + helpful to do on a personal init.el file? + - A: Probably not + - Though too much mode-line customisation may slow things down. +- Q3: What's a good approach for benchmarking destructive + operations? If you delete elements from a list in-place, all + subsequent runs will be artificially fast. + - A: There is an example of a comparison between operations from + different libraries in the example file provided by the talk. + Particularly check the benchmarks for delete and remove + operations (destructive and non-destructive, respectively). +- Q4:Cl-lib constructors, getters, and setters usually expand into + multiple levels of let-bindings. AFAIU, every let-binding is an + extra memory allocation. Do you recommend avoiding cl-defstruct in + favour of "pure" lists/vectors? + - A: basically no. if defstruct allows you to organise better, go + ahead. +- Q5: Is it possible to optimize some emacs packages by making use of + code compiled from other languages (like C or Common Lisp) ((i.e. in + the same way python is able to import C code))? + - A: yes emacs modules allow you to run C or Rust, transitioning + between emacs proper and module (passing the data) might slow + things down? Because of copying that's necessary to avoid + issues with gc. +- Q6:You mentioned that overlays are much slower compared to text + properties. What about text properties vs. buffer-local variables to + store position cache? + - A: I haven't measured it but offhand I'm going to guess that + buffer-local variables will be faster. + - Also depends on the structure you're going to use for the + cache - is it a single cons, or a list, or a tree, etc. + BBB: - AVL tree @@ -53,6 +106,28 @@ IRC: - For more info about the performance of overlays vs text properties data structure, there's an Emacs TODO about it. C-h C-t and search for "Move overlays to intervals.c". - cl-defstruct getters/setters have compiler macros that expand into simple aref calls on vectors, they are very efficient +Links: + +- you might find the this bench-multi-lexical macro useful: + <https://alphapapa.github.io/emacs-package-dev-handbook/#outline-container-Optimization> + or + <https://github.com/alphapapa/emacs-package-dev-handbook#bench-multi-lexical> +- <https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/tree/lisp/emacs-lisp/elp.el> +- <https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/tree/lisp/emacs-lisp/benchmark.el> +- "Use hash tables kids!" +- PSA: buffer-local-value is generally much faster than + with-current-buffer if all you need to do is get the value of a + variable in a buffer +- EIEIO's object construction is slow because it goes through + `make-instance` which is a generic function and it itself calls + various other generic functions, so there's a lot of cl-generic + dispatch overhead; and then there's the fact that the (keyword) + arguments are laboriously parsed at run-time so it itself is slow as + well. +- There is a pending patch to represent the set of a buffer's + overlays as an AAtree or somesuch. +- <https://media.emacsconf.org/2021/emacsconf-2021-faster--optimizing-emacs-lisp-code--dmitry-gutov.el> + [[!inline pages="internal(2021/captions/faster)" raw="yes"]] [[!inline pages="internal(2021/info/faster-nav)" raw="yes"]] diff --git a/2021/talks/forever.md b/2021/talks/forever.md index 98df1104..f8c29489 100644 --- a/2021/talks/forever.md +++ b/2021/talks/forever.md @@ -20,6 +20,42 @@ regardless of mainstream popularity. # Discussion + +Pad: + +- Q1: In your opinion, what is Emacs achilles heel? It's obviously a powerful tool, but no tool is perfect. What would make your life easier in day to day use with Emacs (either a package you wish existed, or a core Emacs infrastructure change). + - A: (Probably answered by voice.) +- Q2:Comparing Emacs just to *code* editors is not a good measure as Emacs is so much more; GTD, word processor, (reference) organizer, or recently expressed on reddit as being a text productivity platform. + - A: (Probably answered by voice.) +- Q3: What is your opinion about the documentation of Emacs in another language in addition of english. There aren't too much non-english community. The people from another non-english countries should write documentation in own language or in english? + - A: (Probably answered by voice.) +- Q4: Do you think more effort should be made to popularize hacking on the C-parts of Emacs? It seems that this is the achilles-heal for the the long-term maintainance of Emacs, if less and less people understand what is going on underneeth eval and apply. + - A: (Probably answered by voice.) +- Q5: Can you name a couple or a few features from other programming languages that you miss in Emacs Lisp? + - A: (Probably answered by voice.) +- Q6: A lot of people take issue with Emacs commitment to to Free Software. They claim it holds it back, and that it should be more "pragmatic". What are your oppinions on this? + - A: (Probably answered by voice.) +- Q7: Do you think that packages like Magit or Org-Mode make people see Emacs as an obstacle to these applications they want to use? Is this an issue, or should it be seen as an opportunity to teach them about Emacs/Free Software? + - A: (Probably answered by voice.) +- Q8: Should Emacs continue to present itself as a esotetic program and culture? Or should we try to dispell the myth, and make clear that anyone can use it, not just extreem entusiasts? Or is this needed to motiviate people to invest time into properly learning Emacs? + - A: (Probably answered by voice.) +- Q9: Do you think there could be changes made to the core of Emacs that would betray the ethos you (and most people here) appriciate? I am thinking of points that some of Emacs' critics demand, to allegedly make Emacs more popular. Do you think this is a realistic threat, or could we save ourselves by forking? + - A: (Probably answered by voice.) +- Q10: The kids want to know : when an ongoing joint video collaboration between @daviwil and @protesilaos? + - A: (Probably answered by voice.) +- Q11: If you had to choose between graphics layer (2D & 3D), or "real" browser support inside Emacs, which would you choose? + - A: (Probably answered by voice.) +- Q12: How'd you feel on being an Emacs focused Youtuber? Do you think Youtube generates a lot of new users? + - A: (Probably answered by voice.) +- Q13: There might once have been a debate whether to add more typesetting capablities to emacs to make it more of a word processor or work on the core performance issues. The current work on native compilation and the community's response to that work show users are actually very interested in perfomance enhancements. What is your opinion on it? + - A: (Probably answered by voice.) +- Q14: Can you give us a sneak peek of what's coming in the YouTube Channel soon? + - A: (Probably answered by voice.) +- Q15: what about guix ? videos about emacs and guix + - A: (Probably answered by voice.) +- Q16: Are you interested in making Youtube videos on the new cool things happening in Emacs, like EAF or Nyxt? + - A: (Probably answered by voice.) + BBB: - Hey Daviwil, I'm curious if you'll do a video showing your personal workflow? @@ -56,6 +92,16 @@ IRC: - The concurrent pushes for reproducible science, literate programming, literate devops, and so on, also contribute to making the case for Emacs & Org-mode - the performance point is spot on. That is one of the main reason why the neovim community is thriving +- From [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ahR5K_wkNQ&feature=em-comments): + - Emacs has changed the way I use my computer. It is absolutely + amazing. I use Emacs to: write latex files, write code, organize my life + (with the help of org mode), check my email, use git , use terminal etc. + Actually I have recently switched my desktop environment to exwm and it is + perfect for my workflow. I guess nothing can beat this tool. + - What I noticed from one graph you showed was that most people using stack overflow also use visual studio code, is there a correlation there I wonder. + - As for Google analytics ranking, some other factors to consider: - What percentage of emacs users search via Google? I may be wrong, but I think emacs users are more likely to use alternative search engines like Duck Duck Go. - There is so much help info built into emacs compared to other editors that is easy to look up right from inside our editor, I wonder what percentage of the searches on Google for the other editors are basic usage questions of the kind emacs users wouldn't need to search online for? I don't know how much weight these factors have in skewing results, but as you said, it doesn't really matter! + - This goes too show in 2004 less people where on the internet and most of then where hard core programmers, and now with more an more people coming into tech , new peeps just want to code and don't care about tools as much . So yeah , I am grateful to you david for introducing me to emacs even though I am too in this new wave + # Outline - Discuss the core thesis, the features that make Emacs diff --git a/2021/talks/form.md b/2021/talks/form.md index 093887ed..41ef151c 100644 --- a/2021/talks/form.md +++ b/2021/talks/form.md @@ -18,6 +18,8 @@ Preferred contact info: ian@retrospec.tv / ieure on Libera [[!inline pages="internal(2021/info/form-schedule)" raw="yes"]] +<http://atomized.org/blog/2021/11/28/old-mccarthy-had-a-form/> + Most practical languages are multi-paradigm, offering several abstractions for the programmer. But did you know that Emacs Lisp comes with a powerful system for object-oriented programming? Join me @@ -28,6 +30,40 @@ modular, flexible Emacs Lisp. IRC nick: ieure +- Q2: AFAIK, EIEIO is generally slower than, e.g. cl-defstructs. When + do you think EIEIO is not suitable for performance reasons? + - A: I agree with Dmitry: first make it work, then make it fast. + I don't think there's a blanket reason not to use EIEIO, but + definitely profile if you're using it in a performance-critical + context. EXWM is one project that uses EIEIO extensively and + seems to perform well, so I don't think it's off-limits for + performance-critical code. +- Q3: Do you have any tips about introspection? e.g. IIRC there's an + EIEIO introspection facility, though it may be somewhat primitive. + - A: It is somewhat primitive, but seems to work okay + (<https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/eieio/Introspection.html)>. + I haven't found a need for anything fancier (yet). +- Q4: Have you used any of the EIEIO-related serialization tools? + IIRC there are some limitations with regard to printable/readable + values. + - A: I haven't had call for this, but + <https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_mono/eieio.html#eieio_002dpersistent> + is the mechanism (for anyone wondering) +- Q5: I did not get how generic functions can work with non class + objects + - A: Dynamic dispatch is very powerful! +- Q6:So with that Emacs is on pair with Smalltalk development + environments now (?) + - A: Not very familiar +- Q7: Most of what you presented can be done without `defclass`. + AFAICT, the only exception is *multiple* inheritance (since + `cl-defstruct` also supports single inheritance via `:include`). + - A: Yes, you can mix and match structs/objects or any other + type. You need classes if you want the EIEIO customization + editing facility or MI. I think also `initialize-instance` is + class-only, so you need classes if you have to do some kinds of + complex (cross-slot) initializtaion. + - I didn't know that custom.el works with EIEIO that way, very nice - Dang Ian. What a talk, great demos. - Wow, that's a great talk. @@ -45,7 +81,11 @@ IRC nick: ieure - ieure: This is the thing that implements (thing (eql :whatever)) specialization, should be a good starting point if you want (thing (string-match-p "^foo")): <https://git.savannah.gnu.org/cgit/emacs.git/tree/lisp/emacs-lisp/cl-generic.el#n1164> - thanks for the pointer, but I think I have some more pressing cl-defgeneric reimplementations to make before I touch that - ieure: Extremely fair. One thing I didn't get to touch on is that you can extend generic functions from anywhere. So you don't have to patch up cl-generic.el, you can define a new method for a generic function defined anywhere, in any file. Which rules. +- This is not a question: Brilliant title for the presentation. :) + +Links: +- <https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_mono/eieio.html> # Outline - What is EIEIO? diff --git a/2021/talks/freedom.md b/2021/talks/freedom.md index 9328e7ae..0b2af117 100644 --- a/2021/talks/freedom.md +++ b/2021/talks/freedom.md @@ -8,6 +8,8 @@ # How Emacs made me appreciate software freedom Protesilaos Stavrou +[[!taglink CategoryPhilosophy]] + [[!inline pages="internal(2021/info/freedom-schedule)" raw="yes"]] The theme will be "how Emacs empowered my software freedom". @@ -40,9 +42,30 @@ by it and thus reserve the right to modify it ahead of the main event. Questions: +- Q1: (Unrelated, feel free not to answer): Is there an Emacs or + GNU/FSF group in Cyprus? I know it's a politically motivated + country, with a strong student-base, so I'm interested whether the + Emacs circles and political circles have any overlap. +- Q2: What do you think is the most effecitve way to demonstrate the + value of software freedom to non-techincal people? For a person who + can't program (or doesn't want to learn) the freedom seems less + immediate. +- Q3: your quote "emacs makes emergent workflow's possible" reminds + me very much of the previous talk (Emacs as Design Pattern + Learning). Can you share/reflect how you go about making/designing + your personal workflows? - are "Prometheas" & "Prometheus" both forms acceptable? Is one "truer" than the other? - protesilaos: Both are correct. The former is modern Greek. +Other notes: + +- Emacs documentation is first class. +- Emacs is inclusive to both new users and experienced users alike, + which empowers all users. +- Knowledge is to be shared not hoarded.. +- Emacs is an ecosystem you have to spend a lot of time with to fully + appreciate. + Feedback: - "I'll definitly use this talk to try to convert more colleagues :D (not joking)" @@ -58,3 +81,4 @@ Feedback: [[!inline pages="internal(2021/captions/freedom)" raw="yes"]] [[!inline pages="internal(2021/info/freedom-nav)" raw="yes"]] + diff --git a/2021/talks/frownies.md b/2021/talks/frownies.md index ff5514b4..87320134 100644 --- a/2021/talks/frownies.md +++ b/2021/talks/frownies.md @@ -15,7 +15,7 @@ extensible; in fact, that's probably the biggest reason it's still being used after 40+ years of existence, and even has enough clout to generate an entire conference in its name. In this medium-length presentation, I will add another point to the data set proving Emacs's -abilities, by narrating the latest package I made, \`frowny.el\`, from +abilities, by narrating the latest package I made, `frowny.el`, from its conception to its current, nearly-completed state. I wrote frowny.el to scratch someone else's itch as a joke on IRC, but @@ -38,15 +38,37 @@ teeth into. - [my Mastodon account](https://writing.exchange/@acdw) (though I'm moving to [tiny.tilde.website](https://tiny.tilde.website/@acdw) ... soon™) -## Other notes +# Discussion -- Compulsively C-q anything electric. Don't need a hook when you've got one in your brain. +- How do we obtain frowny.el? + - A: Please check <https://github.com/duckwork/frowny.el> +- What was the funniest time a frown emerged from unintended code? + Or any similar occurrence. + - A: I frown a lot when I'm problem solving ;) +- What packages you used for writing? + - A: I just use org-mode for its markup. If you mean the + presentation, I think... org-present? +- You wrote the package quite fast. Would you say you knew what + you were going to program before you did it? Or was it iterative + process? + - A: pretty iterative, but very fast b/c it's a small project + space! +- from chat (Cairn): do you have a personal site? + - A: <https://www.acdw.net> +- not related to the talk, but on a different note: I like the + emacs background image used in the video stream. is it available + somewhere for download? :-) + - A: <https://emacsconf.org/i/emacsconf-logo1-256.png> (nervous + laugh) +- Why host it on GitHub? or codeberg.org, or sr.ht, or (non-)GNU savannah, or your own server - Does frowny work with ;) + +- Compulsively C-q anything electric. Don't need a hook when you've got one in your brain. - TBH you should transform it into a patch for electric-pair-mode - So I want to contribute to Emacs, but I don't know enough elisp. Perhaps I could contribute some documentation? But I have no idea what that would be... -- From the speaker: i'd love ot hear more about licensing, basically i don't care how my stuff is used at all -- Why host it on GitHub? or codeberg.org, or sr.ht, or (non-)GNU savannah, or your own server -- do you have a personal site? +- From the speaker: i'd love to hear more about licensing, basically i don't care how my stuff is used at all + +- From [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZn_H93wc5A&feature=em-comments): Hey Case! Thanks for the great talk. I feel like I have had a similar experience to yours by also learning from vanilla Emacs. I like how you're showcasing how easy it is to scratch your own itch in Emacs. Feedback: @@ -55,6 +77,15 @@ Feedback: - These ‘how I got suckered into programming emacs by [hilariously trivial thing]’ are always fun. - frowny.el shows how writing a package can help learn things---all sorts of things to consider and lots of "aha!" moments +Links: + +- <https://breadpunk.club> +- /r/emacs - <https://old.reddit.com/r/emacs> +- Planet Emacs - <https://planet.emacslife.com> +- HISTORY.org - <https://github.com/duckwork/frowny.el/blob/main/HISTORY.org> +- <https://github.com/duckwork/frowny.el> + + [[!inline pages="internal(2021/captions/frownies)" raw="yes"]] [[!inline pages="internal(2021/info/frownies-nav)" raw="yes"]] diff --git a/2021/talks/imaginary.md b/2021/talks/imaginary.md index 0f9a030c..01f1e7a7 100644 --- a/2021/talks/imaginary.md +++ b/2021/talks/imaginary.md @@ -33,6 +33,30 @@ GPL. Please keep an open mind. IRC nick: libertyprime +Pad: + +- Q1: Do you have a site we can follow more of your writing on? + - A:Pen.el Tutorial: https://semiosis.github.io/posts/pen-el-tutorial/ + - https://semiosis.github.io/posts/ilambda-tutorial/ + - https://emacsconf.org/2021/talks/imaginary/ +- Q2: re slide 27, would it mean that 2 such "idefined" functions would be the "same", meaning do the same thing the same way, given that they are defined without a "body"? (i'm trying to get a better grasp on the objects that get so "imagined" under the hood) + - A: The first time a function is run with given parameters, the results are remembered. I use the memoize library. You can update the function every time by surrounding the call the the function with the (upd ...) macro. The body evaluation is completely short-circuited with idefun. The imacro works a bit differently. It will generate real code. You can use the normal macro-expand on an imacro. +- Q3:Opalvaults :What are some underlying concepts/papers, that we could read to become more familiar with your overarching ideas? (i.e. for instance things that inspired your ideas) + - A: paper: pretrain, prompt and predict +- Q4: Sorry, I just don't get it: How is a function that does something different each time it's called useful? + - A: Each time you run one of these functions, you are getting the computer to imagine for you. It's a bicycle for the imagination. You can automate the filtration of the results you want, say by doing many generations and applying grep, or other prompts such as the semantic search prompt to the results. The functions are memoised, so they technicaly do the same thing every time if you want them to. Also, if you use a temperature of 0 for the prompt functions (I demonstrate how to override that, somewhere in the slides), it will be deterministic too, even when bypassing the cache. +- Q5: How on earth do you ensure that what ilambda gets back from GPT-3 is Lisp and not, say, Harry Potter fanfic? :) + - A: A combination of good prompt design, filtering the results, and validating the results. Also, you can fine-tune models to the task you want to eliminate the possibility of unwanted generations. +- Q6: Your views on the pluses and minuses of GPT-3? + - A:It's something we have to live with because of its transformative nature on computing. These language models unfortunately are license-blind. +- Q7: Any interesting ideas about potential applications of GPT-3 to Emacs itself (or Emacs-adjacent things)? + - A: Emacs is the ultimate text-centric operating system. It will become a kernel for AGI, I think. That's what I plan on making. The power-user's terminal of human-ai interaction. I'm trying to extend as many modes in emacs as possible. Org-brain, eww browser, org-mode, comint, emacs lisp primitives, etc. +- Q8: Follow-up on Q2: how does infering functions in this manner differ from, say, how in the Haskell ecosystem functions are infered by specifying inputs and return type (such as when searching for a suitable function for a given purpose)? + - A: Where in haskell, type-declarative function search look through a discrete set of functions by type, the domain of possible functions that are search for using language models is qualatively and quantatively infinite. +- Q9: Are you deriving functions from their names? What do you do when this is ambiguous - for example, when the name of the function is "get-element-from-pair"? + - A: idefun will infer computation and short-circuit the code. Given either 'function name', alone, function name + args, or function name, + args + docstring, or function nae + args + docstring + function body, it will make use of the context you have provided and imagine evaluation. It will create functions which infer rather than properly evaluate, based on merely the name of the function, for example. + - A (re: ambiguity): If you had an imaginary defun for this, you'd need to send the final list + BBB: - libertyprime: What kinds of software is IP (imaginary programming) not suitable for? @@ -108,7 +132,7 @@ BBB: - libertyprime: Yeah, so the best way to interact with these types of chatbots is to imagine the situation you are in before hand. the initial phrases can be anything you can think of really. Why are you in the bath tub?, for example. But I tend to open with something like, may I interrupt? What were you just working on? so by choosing the prompt very carefully, you can tease out the information you require. - libertyprime: <https://semiosis.github.io/nlsh/> and this, which is a natural language shell - libertyprime: I also have a way to filter results semantically, with my semantic search prompt <http://github.com/semiosis/prompts/blob/master/prompts/textual-semantic-search-filter-2.prompt> -- libertyprime: YOu can run all these prompts also from bash like so: pl "[\"It's cool. I used to dance zouk.\",\"I don't know.\",\"I'm not sure.\",\"I can't stop dancing to it.\",\"I think it's ok.\",\"It's cool but I prefer rock and roll.\",\"I don't know. It sounds good.\",\"Nice but a bit too fast,\"Oh, I know zouk, you can teach it to me.\",\"Zouk is nice.\"]" | "penf" "-u" "pf-textual-semantic-search-filter/2" "positive response". That will pipe json results into Pen.el, and have it filtered. all prompting functions are also available as shell commands. +- libertyprime: YOu can run all these prompts also from bash like so: pl "["It's cool. I used to dance zouk.","I don't know.","I'm not sure.","I can't stop dancing to it.","I think it's ok.","It's cool but I prefer rock and roll.","I don't know. It sounds good.","Nice but a bit too fast,"Oh, I know zouk, you can teach it to me.","Zouk is nice."]" | "penf" "-u" "pf-textual-semantic-search-filter/2" "positive response". That will pipe json results into Pen.el, and have it filtered. all prompting functions are also available as shell commands. - well I think this is the coolest thing I've seen in a long time. how do we follow up with you and get involved? run it etc? - libertyprime: hehe thanks aindilis: i'm on #emacs as libertyprime. Feel free to hit me up any time. Otherwise, the setup for pen.el is fairly straight forward. If you have any issues demoing, I'd be very interested, so I can make Pen.el more reliable. I have a discord server. I'll copy the link. One sec - Do you think you could run an IRC channel too? @@ -139,7 +163,10 @@ IRC: - is it still invite only? - no, it's been opened recently +From [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJm4TaCyDnk&feature=em-comments): +- Is this Emacs with smooth scrolling? How is that possible? I tired that really hard. Or is it just a PDF reader? +- Lets go!!!!! Imaginary Programming all the way. # Outline diff --git a/2021/talks/invoice.md b/2021/talks/invoice.md index 43e8a845..c3534656 100644 --- a/2021/talks/invoice.md +++ b/2021/talks/invoice.md @@ -8,6 +8,8 @@ # Find Your (In)voice: Emacs for Invoicing Bala Ramadurai +[[!taglink CategoryOrgMode]] + [[!inline pages="internal(2021/info/invoice-schedule)" raw="yes"]] [[!table header="no" class="speaker-details" data=""" @@ -50,6 +52,8 @@ We will use the following packages: - The accounting system transactions are a nice touch - it's really hard to tell that came from org :) - European format would be DD.MM.YYYY and not with dashes which can be mixed up with ISO or other formats. in the UK it's often with slashes: DD/MM/YYYY +- From [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b__d04aHEbI&feature=em-comments): This looks great! Much better than my amateurish attempts. Thanks!!! + [[!inline pages="internal(2021/captions/invoice)" raw="yes"]] diff --git a/2021/talks/janitor.md b/2021/talks/janitor.md index 5fb6b78c..ab903616 100644 --- a/2021/talks/janitor.md +++ b/2021/talks/janitor.md @@ -21,6 +21,56 @@ Because of a reckless former Emacs maintainer that shall # Discussion +Pad: + +- Q1: How did you narrow to two specific areas in a single buffer when + compering the two functions. I can be handy + - A:In this case I just split the window into 2. In other cases I + use `M-x smerge-make-conflict`. Oh wait, did you really mean + "narrow"? I don't use narrowing, I only use + outline-minor-mode (with reveal-mode to un-hide as I move) + - I will look into both work flows they look very handy. Thanks. +- Q2: Could you further elaborate on quoting functions with #'fun + (aka (function fun)) instead of 'fun (aka (quote fun))? + - A:Not sure what further elaboration you want (e.g. "why?" or + "when?") + - I would like why? Is it just style since Emacs understand both, + or not? + - The why is to be more explicit (i.e. a form of documentation, so + as a reader I can see that this refers to the function rather + than being just a use of a symbol for other purposes)). The + compiler knows about it and will hence give you a warning if you + refer this way to a function it's not aware of. There are also + corner cases where the two behave differently, mostly when + referring to a function defined via `cl-flet` or `cl-labels` + (or `named-let`, ...) + - Thanks! +- Q3: Stefan, you mentioned a lot of conventions, I really like to + read more about them: Where can I find a list of these conventions + (like #'function for functions )? Is there a page or info about + ELisp conventions used nowadays? + - A:Good question. We have several of them documented in the + ELisp reference manual (searching for "convention" should get + you there), but that only covers those conventions with which + Emacs maintainers agree. Others are much less clearly + formalized. I seem to remember someone collecting such + information and making a webpage out of it, but I can't + remember where nor who it was. + - Probably, + <https://github.com/alphapapa/emacs-package-dev-handbook> + - Thanks! I'll take a look at the reference manual and search for + this information. 👍 +- Q4: Stefan, that was really amazing to watch. After the changes you + made, how confident are you that the package still works as + intended? It seems as though there might be some room for errors + that the byte compiler wouldn't necessarily catch. + - A: I think for those three packages I'm quite confident that + they should work as well as before. Not because the compiler + did not complain but because the changes were sufficiently + simple. Sadly in ELisp, I can't rely on the compiler to catch + errors. I can only use it ask it to point me to suspicious + code, and I know that it will miss some. + BBB: - I couldn't help but note that in the C world we are more and more making large-scale changes like this to the whole tree at once using tools like coccinelle. it feels like the regular structure of Lisp would lend itself to this very well... It feels like a better use of your time, is all :) diff --git a/2021/talks/maintainers.md b/2021/talks/maintainers.md index 109307e9..8a39e41a 100644 --- a/2021/talks/maintainers.md +++ b/2021/talks/maintainers.md @@ -18,33 +18,66 @@ care of Emacs maintainance by taking care of Emacs maintainers. # Discussion +Pad: + +- [[!template text="Q1: How did you come up with this knowledge? By doing or by experience or by reading books (which?)?" start="00:04:30.840" video="qanda" time="1" id=subtitle]] + - A: All 3 of them. + - He was reading the book: Fred turner : counter culture to cyberculture + - The other one he mentioned appears to be Eghbal, Nadia [Stripe Press] (2020) Working in public: the making and maintenance of open source software +- [[!template text="Q2: (Maybe answer this last, if time permits) How did you come to start using Org?" start="00:06:10.000" video="qanda" time="1" id=subtitle]] + - A: Bastien started with his own library BHL and was introduced/invited to contribute to Org by Carsten. +- [[!template text="Q3: You have recently overseen a major transition for org mode maintenance, what would you advise for other teams that are preparing for transitions so that processes can be maintained with minimal disruption? How do we take processes that were originally maintained by a single person to one maintained by multiple people?" start="00:08:39.720" video="qanda" time="1" id=subtitle]] + - A: (Probably answered by voice.) +- [[!template text="Q4: What do you think about the latest Orgdown thing? (Yes, it's me, Karl :-) )" start="00:35:32.840" video="qanda" time="1" id="subtitle"]] + - A: (Probably answered by voice.) +- Q5: Could you settle this "Org" vs "Org-mode" vs "orgmode" vs ... once and for all (i.e. which one, capitalized how, and where)? :) + - A: (Probably answered by voice.) +- [[!template text="Q6: Does this mean that you do not need to be technical to be(come) a maintainer? Would that really work?" start="00:15:09.880" video="qanda" time="1" id="subtitle"]] + - A: The co-maintainer could be a person with less technical background. +- [[!template text="Q7: If time — what does the day of the orgmode maintainer look like? Lots of hours of work every day? Spread out?" start="00:17:24.520" video="qanda" time="1" id="subtitle"]] + - A: Not always. Last two months "MIA." Bastien wants to step down as maintainer but wants to prepare project/community for the next maintainer. "When I was working hard on this it was something like two hours a day. But usually it would be 2-4 hours per week." Most of time spent on mailing list (Bastien notes that he likes mailing list isn't split between users/developers). +- [[!template text="Q8: Thanks for the hard work. Which place is the right place to request a dark mode for orgmode.org website ?" start="00:10:55.200" video="qanda" time="1" id="subtitle"]] + - A: write an email to the Org-mode team. This seems to be a reasonable request. +- [[!template text="Q9: Do you think having centralized roles for people to carry out certain tasks such as documentation across multiple areas would be a constructive approach to inviting new maintainers" start="00:21:11.800" video="qanda" time="1" id="subtitle"]] (in contrast to "every person take an issue of their own choosing", which leaves parts of maintenance and documentation neglected)? From personal experience, sometimes it can be easier for those to be told "hey, we need this area maintanined, or a focus on contribution to this particular area". If we take a page from Catalonian Spain of the early 1900's, even the most decentralized organizations have to dedicate certain persons to specific tasks. Sorry for the long winded question. + - A: (Probably answered by voice.) +- [[!template text="Q10: I think org has and may potentially greatly influence Emacs development. If you would tend to agree, do you have places where you feel Emacs need to "pull back" harder, to" start="00:24:21.440" video="qanda" time="1" id="subtitle"]] incluence org? Key areas where org is clearly "leading the way"? + - A: "Org is to Emacs was Emacs is to computer systems" +- [[!template text="Q11: Could you expound a little on what's happening with contrib ... I'm a little confused. Mechanics/technical. " start="00:27:52.320" video="qanda" time="1" id="subtitle"]] + - (Karl: Do you mean technically "how to migrate" or the background why this happened? I personally did the conversion this week. I got the separate repository (or package) and had to do more local "use-packages" (the way of loading elisp files in my setup) and that's it. The hard thing was to find out which error refers to which org file to load separately.) Thanks. Seems like time for bankrupcy again :-/. + - A: contrib = stuff that didn't go to Emacs (copyright assignment not necessary). This was not a clean solution because it was mixed with copyright-transferred files in the same repository. New contrib goes now to "non-GNU" which is a clear separation according to copyright assignments. The way to install Org is via Org MELPA and contrib for Non-GNU MELPA. YES. THANKS. +- Q12: (Maybe not a question, just an observation) I like the analogy to gardening. FOSS projects seem much like community gardens. Also, shepherding seems like an apt analogy; I could imagine files having "shepherds" :) + - A: (Probably answered by voice.) +- [[!template text="Q13: Has splitting contrib actually reduced maintenance load? Is it too soon to tell? (I have found that splitting repos ultimately increases maintenance overhead due to multiplying" start="" video="qanda" time="1" id="subtitle"]] release overhead etc.) + - A: It is clearly easier now and less confusing for contributors. org-contrib is soon to die: packages will be moved to their own packages since contrib was founded when there was no packaging around. +- Q14: So was BHL the basis for org-export? + - A: https://bzg.fr/en/theorgfather/ + BBB: - agreed, I appreciate that the list isn't split. - vastly simplifies workflows. -- Wouldn't they be missing the key part, Emacs? -- (ah, i understood forking for a different toolset, vs markdown-based org-mode on Emacs, apologies) -- Bastien Guerry: <https://list.orgmode.org/87y2jvkeql.fsf@gnu.org/> +- (Missing context) Wouldn't they be missing the key part, Emacs? + - Questioner: (ah, i understood forking for a different toolset, vs markdown-based org-mode on Emacs, apologies) + - Bastien Guerry: <https://list.orgmode.org/87y2jvkeql.fsf@gnu.org/> - devil's advocate to Karl's point now though: is that from habit? -- link syntax in markdown is impossible to remember +- link syntax in markdown is impossible to remember for simplifying e.g. keyword syntax can be made regular. consistency across levels is extremely hard due to interactions between features, in part because you only encounter those much later in implementation. another part of the issue is that Org has more features than pandoc markdown so it is sometimes unrepresentable. +- interestingly Timothy has solved most of the markdown &> org - plain orgmode is easy to visualize. with markdown you need to export this if you have many md lines. org tables is a clear example of the visualization -- I think the argument of the best syntax is a hard battle to fight, but where the bar is clear is the software (org-mode) and what it can do with it, as of today. for simplifying e.g. keyword syntax can be made regular. consistency across levels is extremely hard due to interactions between features, in part because you only encounter those much later in implementation. another part of the issue is that Org has more features than pandoc markdown so it is sometimes unrepresentable. -- interestingly Timothy has solved most of the markdown -> org -- FYI org-sidebar provides a backlinks tool +- I think the argument of the best syntax is a hard battle to fight, but where the bar is clear is the software (org-mode) and what it can do with it, as of today. +- [[!template text="FYI org-sidebar provides a backlinks tool" start="00:54:54.080" video="qanda" time="1" id="subtitle"]] - Backlinks! Yes! - Backlinks for me: <https://karl-voit.at/2020/07/22/org-super-links/> - was going to say : many of the org-roam features should make their way into core org-mode eventually - how to manage and cache other types of data that are similar to backlinks - something like org-id caching, you mean? -- alphapapa: not quite, more things that we don't want to put in the org file directly -- e.g. babel caches for huge pieces of data +- alphapapa: not quite, more things that we don't want to put in the org file directly; e.g. babel caches for huge pieces of data - id caching for performance would be great, some of the vizualisation things are very interesting too -- it is a hard problem + - it is a hard problem + +BBB feedback: + - Thank you for taking the time to share your accumulated wisdom with us, Bastien :) -- Thanks Bastien! -- thank you! - merci Bastien! -- Bastien Guerry: Bye all ! IRC: diff --git a/2021/talks/model.md b/2021/talks/model.md index 17ee1022..ad33ff8f 100644 --- a/2021/talks/model.md +++ b/2021/talks/model.md @@ -53,7 +53,27 @@ who don't possess the neccessarry technical skills to adjust it themselves, but are keen to learn it, and potentially how to attract more users to greater productivity, computer literacy and the ideas of free software. - +# Discussion + +- Q1: What is the URL of your web page? I guess the URL on your slide + is currently not available (see links below). + - A: The URL written is correct, but unfortunately the website is + down due to some misconfiguration and will be back soon. You can + contact me at laszlo.lk@protonmail.com until it is resolved +- Q2: It is important to note that for EAF to extend to the web apps + you mentioned (Asana, Jira) in a deeper way than just displaying the + web app using EAF Browser, the APIs of these web apps need to be + exposed too. + - A:Exactly, otherwise only a one way update would be possible. As + long as they have integration with other external tools, there + must be a closed API documentation for making it work. + +Links: + +- different form + <https://github.com/emacs-eaf/emacs-application-framework> in that + the goal here is not to do everything in emacs buffers. +- <https://github.com/ag91/emacs-with-nyxt> # Outline diff --git a/2021/talks/mold.md b/2021/talks/mold.md index 95e55e03..7c5eb707 100644 --- a/2021/talks/mold.md +++ b/2021/talks/mold.md @@ -39,12 +39,68 @@ You can learn more about this at: <https://github.com/ag91/moldable-emacs> IRC nick: `andrea +Pad: + +- Q1: How to find a balance between «generic» molds that do not + provide specific enough info vs writing a new mold for every new + query/question? + - A: You can write molds that are private for your special + problem. I created molds for my work that I don't share: like + find the stories I am working on and how long time I spent on + tasks lately. Also, moldable-emacs is to make these tools easy + to write, so you should free to throw away tools when you need + them once only. If I believe a tool is a good start for many + other tools, I put them among the core molds, else if I use them + often I store them as contrib. If it is a one off, I throw it + away. +- Q2: How would you evaluate this workflow for package managemnt in + large independent codebases. Can one integrate it with code sematic + analyzers to make for a better work flow? + - A: moldable-emacs is about creating custom tools you can apply + to your situation. I started experimenting with molding NPM json + packages + security data from OWASP to view/display security + issues in my packages to my colleagues in the past. + moldable-emacs gives me the infrastructure to answer my question + about security, and I now started asking myself about + architecture coherence, so I have scaled up tree-sitter over + projects to check that modules don't use packages from other + modules. By that I mean that as long as your code semantic + analyzers output data, you can mold that (context) data to tell + your story (answer the question you have). Does this answer your + question? + - You answered it very well. I am also a security auditor for + multiple development teams. And I am incharge of code analysis + in an understaffed security team. So your usecase example got my + usecase spot on. + - Cool! For now you can define insecure patterns using tree-sitter + expressions (for example, I find a variable called "password" + in the code set to a string. For the package.json I linked to + OWASP API and looped through the packages using tree-sitter + tokens. I didn't get there, but I wanted to see an Org Mode + buffer with the list of the most vulnerable deps highlighted by + color + how to solve them: so I could pass them to developers to + resolve them (I am a dev, but sometimes others don't know about + security risks). + - Often molds are to tell stories to others. + - This is probably the most important thing for my personal + usecase. Thank you very much. Now it's my turn to learn it and + use it well. + - Please open issues or email me, and I will try to help if you + like how it works :) + - I'll do so. + +IRC: + - cool...so essentially you are developing a text based version of Glamorous Toolkit. - `andrea: yup, but only because I don't have good imaging in Emacs yet (but with tui.el...) - your talk helped a lot with that though. I'd been seeing posts from you for a little while, but now I "get it" - `andrea: yeah sorry, I am still building my vision: it may look I have been all over the place (image recognition, editing css, parse English lately), but the common thread is the easing of creation of micro tools that help me tell the stories I need - I love your approach of mining other 'nuggets' from other contexts and bringing them to Emacs. I really look forward to looking in to your work and see if I can implement some of it. Thank you so much for your talk. +Links: + +- Telling a story about code using buffer views <https://moldabledevelopment.com/> + # Outline - 5-10 minutes: quick demo of moldable-emacs diff --git a/2021/talks/molecular.md b/2021/talks/molecular.md index b2ebfaa4..3cc7d829 100644 --- a/2021/talks/molecular.md +++ b/2021/talks/molecular.md @@ -8,7 +8,7 @@ # Reproducible molecular graphics with Org-mode Blaine Mooers - +[[!taglink CategoryOrgMode]] [[!inline pages="internal(2021/info/molecular-schedule)" raw="yes"]] @@ -48,6 +48,61 @@ from Org-mode documents. # Discussion +Pad: + +- Q1: Do you also do any hydrogen-bond analysis in your workflows? + Also, could your snippet library be extended for other non-python + simulation programs like GROMAC? + - A: Yes, i have a snippet that generate publication qualtiy + hydrogen bonds. Yes, I have thought of making snippet library + molecular simulation like Gromacs and AMNER and drug design + software packages like autodock Vvna and rdkit. They can help + lower the barrier to entry. I made library for crystallographic + computing with CCTBX for use in Jupyter. I should make it + available for org-mode. +- Q2: We've seen a few talks regarding managing academic papers and + citations in emacs/org, what does your workflow look like? + - A: I switched to Emacs as my primary editor 3 months ago. I have + yet to write a paper in Org. I am very comfortable with LaTeX + and I have been writing my papers on Overleaf in LaTeX for + several years. I used bibtex and JabRef to manage by refernces. + I have started playing by org-ref. It looks super promising. +- Q3: Hi Blain, you mentioned that you have been able to come back to + a file years later, how do you manage the environment that the org + file executes in? + - A: Good question. The PyMOL code is good for years so the images + should be reproducible regardless of the version of org. + PyMOL's domain specific language is very stable. The Python + code largely just wraps around the DSL code. +- Q4: Have you used Org Mode and pyMOL for publications? Could you + share a link to any of them? + - A: I have yet to use org in a publication. The first step will + be to use it for supplemental material. + +BBB discussion: + +- We've seen a few talks regarding managing academic papers and citations in emacs/org, what does your workflow look like? + - Blaine: My workflow involves a dozen different software packages and 20-200 GB of data. Complete literate programming is not possible at this time. The smallest possible step towards that goal is to make the molecular images reproducible because the files involved are on 1-100 MB in size. + - Questioner: I assume that's why there might be lag with several images rendered on an org buffer? +- I was specifically interested in your workflow with managing citations and papers as I'm sure you have to do, is there anything in particular you use for citation management? + - Blaine: I switched to Emacs as my primary editor 3 months ago. I have yet to write a paper in Org. I am very comfortable with LaTeX and I have been writing my papers on Overleaf in LaTeX for several years. I used bibtex and JabRef to manage by references. I have started playing by org-ref. It looks super promising. + - Questioner: I still use zotero and biblatex, but the previous two talks about org-ref got me thinking about my workflow +- Have you used Org Mode and pyMOL for publications? Could you share a link to any of them? + - Blaine: I have yet to use org in a publication. The first step will be to use it for supplemental material. + - thanks, makes sense, I'm off in a part of the python world where code base churn can be pretty severe; but it sounds like pymol is able to avoid those issues + - Blaine: PyMOL as a domain specific language that is very stable. The transition from Python2 to Python3 as bit disruptive. +- Hi Blaine, you mentioned that you have been able to come back to a file years later, how do you manage the environment that the org file executes in? + - Blaine: Good question. The PyMOL code is good for years so the images should be reproducible regardless of the version of org. + +BBB feedback: + +- Blane, great job with the talk. Awesome presentation. + - I know people loved it in the IRC chat :D +- I can share that I was excited to see how you made things so seamless and integrated feeling into Emacs. The results are really eyepopping. + + +IRC discussion: + - which is the package name for export org mode to pymol? - the async header argument can be helpful with the problem of the amount of time for generating the images - think of this is use case explication for being able to manage and render 3d models in org diff --git a/2021/talks/montessori.md b/2021/talks/montessori.md index b10396c8..8c734ad9 100644 --- a/2021/talks/montessori.md +++ b/2021/talks/montessori.md @@ -7,6 +7,7 @@ # Emacs and Montessori Philosophy +[[!taglink CategoryPhilosophy]] [[!inline pages="internal(2021/info/montessori-schedule)" raw="yes"]] @@ -19,6 +20,154 @@ drives present in everybody that allow us to explore and make sense of our world # Discussion +- Q1: Would you say that the Montessori philosophy follows a "verb" + based methodology, where an abstract action is performed on an item, + without locking the action to what the item can support, like an + Object-oriented language would do? + - e.g. `throw(rock)` instead of `rock.throw()`, i.e. a + function in a global namespace, instead of a function belonging + to an object? + - A: i'd like to think about this some more, but honestly i think + its a bit of both? there's certainly some things I can think of + that are more like `rock.throw()`... Here are the things you + can do with these materials, and that is it. On the other hand, + I've certainly seen inventive uses of educational materials + that follow more of a `throw(pencil)` type of thing. + - The philosophy is highly observation based, so I'm thinking + about the difference of something like `Child::new.learn()` vs + `learn(some-child)`. In this case I do feel like the "verb" + based methodology is more appropriate. We need to stop and + observe a child, to notice what is driving them, what they're + responding to, and where they are in their abilities. Depending + on our observations, we may offer different kinds of input. Its + certainly much less like "oh i have another Child object and I + need to have them do x, y, z" in order to get to point B. + - I hope this somewhat answers the question. I'll keep pondering + :) + - Thank you, I guess some children favour one method over + another, but it's not as black and white as I initially + thought. Thanks! +- Q2: How old do you think childen need to be to start exploring with + Emacs? + - A: Children 0-6 are in a phase called the "absorbent mind". It + is this miraculous superpower that children have to absorb + everything around them. The ability to learn language is + probably the most obvious example. So, if children can interact + with Emacs, they can start exploring it. Of course, as a text + editor, basic literacy is pretty important. I personally have + not tried teaching young children Emacs, but I believe with the + right kinds of interfaces, it could be possible. +- Q3: How to let my kids exploring Emacs?(No need to answer this. + It's simillar to Q2) + - A: Great question! Much of the early childhood Montessori work + is highly tactile. Abstract concepts are embodied in physical + objects. One example is the "binomial cube" which is a set of + blocks that demonstrates (a + b)^3. Children know nothing about + the math behind it, but by interacting with it as a tactile + puzzle, something about the math concept behind it, the + abstraction, is available to the child and their absorbent mind. + - That is to say... perhaps there are ways to bring Emacs into + the physical world for the very young. I've been fantasizing + about some kind of "physical lisp" where young children can + interact with a sort of physical programming language. I don't + have a lot of concrete ideas on how to get young children + exploring Emacs, but I do believe it is possible. + - For older, literate children, I believe simple things that give + instant feedback are a great way to encourage interaction. Being + able to do something like (set-cursor-color "orange") and see + it work at your finger tips is amazing. I believe that a well + prepared set up where M-x is easy to access and you get some + kind of completion to show you what you can do would go far. + Even ielm could be useful. Children are not nearly as afraid of + a command prompt as some grown ups are. They come to it with + much less preconceptions on how it should be used. + - I would like to think more about this, as giving children the + opportunity to experience Emacs feels critical these days, when + they may be forced into using much non-free software just do do + their school work. +- Q4: How big of an impact does the environment have on the children + that you teach? + - A: the environment is huge. giving children a prepared space + where everything is accessible to them, down at their level, the + correct size, etc, it can lead to amazing things. When I worked + with 1.5-3 year olds, I remember telling people it was like + managing a restaurant where my employees were toddlers. I could + work with a group of children to get food served into properly + sized dishes, beverages poured, ceramic plates and glass cups + set on the tables, napkins folded, and so on all finished in + time to get everyone down for lunch before we had major melt + downs. This would not be possible in a normal grown-up + environment. + - I'm not sure i said this in the talk, but the environment is an + active process on all of us, not just children. the 0-6 year + olds (and beyond) are absorbing so much from the environment + that we simply filter out. i think this is important to consider + for new emacs users. I tend to filter out a lot of things that a + new user may pick up and stumble over. + - To re-emphasize: the elements of education are The Learner, The + Guide(s), and The Environment. Montessori focuses on the + Prepared Environment, in order that it can be the most effective + for the child's ability to become an independent, self-realized + person. +- Q5:Do you have a good reference for the Montessori principles + (actually any nice book ref)? + - A: I'd like to find a more modern resource, I'm sure they are + out there. Much of my experience was direct hands-on classroom + time. I've read much of "The Absorbent Mind" which really + lays out a lot of the observations Maria Montessori made of the + young child, 0-6 years old. The other book I've studied is + "The Secret of Childhood". I would like to stress though, a + lot of the knowledge in Montessori is very very similar to + traditional knowledge. When I was learning more about Lakota + culture and parenting, I was finding that Montessori was + expressing much of the same thing. Any resource (book, human, + whatever) that respects children as whole human beings is worth + paying attention to. Another author I've enjoyed is Aletha + Solter, who writes about parenting. +- Q6:How do you think Emacs could improve re: Montessori Principles + (if at all)? + - A: My main takeaway is that we should acknowledge the three + elements of learning: The Learner (user), The Guides + (contributors), and The (Prepared) Environment. Each user coming + to Emacs is an individual with their own mix of internal drives + (human tendencies) that compel them to learn and experience. + Everyone that is a contributor to Emacs (whether in code, on the + web, or in chat) acts as a Guide in the environment (whether + they know it or not). The Prepared Environment could be + considered how the application is set up for users. I think + there is room for a friendlier Prepared Environment, though I am + always amazed at what I can discover where the self-documenting + feature helps me out. Interactive tutorials teaching one how to + learn how to learn Emacs would be tricky, but I think some + interesting work could happen there! + - Another principle is "control of error", meaning, when you + fail at something or make a mistake, it should be obvious, and + hopefully the correction of the error should be obvious as well. + This is hard to do in a huge software environment like Emacs, + but I think there could be some work done in this regard. I'm + reminded of Racket's beginning student languages, which make + error messages more human focused and less computery is a good + example. + - I think the community could also improve as Guides. I have + certainly had many pleasant interactions with Emacs users, but + sometimes you run into things like "RTFM" or "read the + source". While I don't disagree, it can come off as elitist + sometimes. Many new users are afraid to read source, or have + found a manual but still don't understand. We certainly want to + encourage independence, so offering techniques like "have you + tried M-x describe-function?" is better than just answering + outright. Sometimes we need to take a moment and understand the + Learner we're working with. Maybe they aren't ready for "read + the source". I could keep writing, but I think I need to wrap + up. Anyone should feel free to email me to talk more! perhaps + i'll try doing some writing about it. +- Q8: What was the presentation mode you used? + - A: org-tree-slide - <https://github.com/takaxp/org-tree-slide> - + i love using this package because i can practice and edit my + presentation at the same time. + +Feedback: + - having studied in a school which founded by following Montessori Philosophy, I can relate <3 - Love the emphasis on creativity! - Such a cool talk @@ -28,6 +177,13 @@ drives present in everybody that allow us to explore and make sense of our world - and Smalltalk as a platform shares a lot with Emacs, both are a world where a user lives and develops - garjola: yeah...the whole thing about discovery, figuring things out for yourself, having an epiphany. +Links and other notes: + +- <https://github.com/takaxp/org-tree-slide> +- <grant@churls.world> +- @kheya@mastodon.social +- <http://blog.shoshin.digital/> (there's not really anything there + xD) # Outline diff --git a/2021/talks/nangulator.md b/2021/talks/nangulator.md index 93734666..bbf7bfed 100644 --- a/2021/talks/nangulator.md +++ b/2021/talks/nangulator.md @@ -23,6 +23,24 @@ N-Angulator is the genesis, to wit, the "Model-T," of such a program. IRC nick: N-Angulator +- Q1: Can this be considered as a UI to manage hardlinks with + additional functionality such as listing the hardlinks of a single + file? + - A: that is part of what it could be considered. I see it more + as re-imagining the Unix/Linux file system as a data cloud +- Q2: Remark: I did a PhD on that very same topic: + <https://karl-voit.at/tagstore/en/papers.shtml> - Your approach does + seeom to have similarities to the Semantic File System (Gifford et + al) or SemFS (Mohan at al) or TagFS (Bloehdorn et al). + - A: yes, I just started checking it out. I was not aware of any + of those when I wrote it. I just had a need for a much more + comprehensive filing/retrieval system to support my various + activities (law, programming, time management, etc...). It + worked amazingly well at the time but "life happened" and I + was never really able to keep it up with the times like porting + it from the orphaned XEmacs into FSF and promote it at all. +- <https://github.com/vigilancetech-com/N-Angulator> + - N-Angulator: I wrote it 10 years ago and am no porting it to GNU emacs - is this a graph-as-filesystem - I'd much rather work with keybindings rather than clicking things. Is there support for that? @@ -31,6 +49,9 @@ IRC nick: N-Angulator - This is weirdware in the best sort of way. - Are you familiar with tagstore/TagTrees (by me) or Semantic File System (Gifford et al) or SemFS (Mohan at al) or TagFS (Blöhdorn et al)? my work: https://karl-voit.at/tagstore/en/papers.shtml -> preferably the PhD document that summarizes everything +- From [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ggmfWPmse_w&feature=em-comments): Any chance you can explain what this package can actually do? I don't want to be critical. It looks interesting but I just don't know what to do with this. + + [[!inline pages="internal(2021/captions/nangulator)" raw="yes"]] [[!inline pages="internal(2021/info/nangulator-nav)" raw="yes"]] diff --git a/2021/talks/native.md b/2021/talks/native.md index 3de0494e..2916c9f5 100644 --- a/2021/talks/native.md +++ b/2021/talks/native.md @@ -9,7 +9,6 @@ Andrea Corallo - [[!inline pages="internal(2021/info/native-schedule)" raw="yes"]] Emacs Lisp (Elisp) is the Lisp dialect used by the Emacs text editor @@ -33,8 +32,144 @@ Format: 40 minutes # Discussion -IRC nick: akrl +Pad: + +- Q1: Why do you say that Elisp is *nearly* a general purpose + programming lang? What's missing? (and btw, huge thanks for your + work!) + - A: +- Q2: Is this the "rudiments" that the garbage collector talk was + discussing yesterday? Feel free to ignore this n00b question. + - A: +- Q3:Is the idea to enventually develop Emacs itself in ELisp (c.f. + Smalltalk VM developed in Smalltalk)? + - A: +- Q4: How did you work on this? Did you use Org Mode to keep track of + your progress? Did you use pictures to keep track of your compiler + transformations or you made only for the presentation? Asking + because it seems a complex project and I am not sure how you kept + that all in your mind! For example, make sure to pick stuff that FSF + was okay with while also deciding how to implement the optimization. + Great job anyway! + - A: +- Q5:Is this pipeline a possible source of new security + vulnerabilities, or a new category of vulnerabilities? Is it + something you are worried about or have had to deal with? + - A: +- Q6: What code, if any, would still benefit significantly from being + written in C? Could/should some of the existing C code be converted + without significant performance loss? + - A: +- Q7: What's the risk of (setq native-comp-speed 3)? + - A: Not sigificant risks. Some side effects might include: + needing to recompile a whole file or compilation unit when + redefining a function, otherwise the old function definition + could be used. +- Q8: Are there any limits introduced by native comp with respect to + runtime introspectability, changeability/redefinability, etc? + - A: +- Q9: Is there a benefit in setting native-comp-compiler-options to + "-mtune=native -march=<cpu>"? + - A: Not at the moment. Maybe in the future if, e.g. libgccjit is + enhanced further. +- Q10: You mentioned native-comp coming in emacs 28, will this be the + default at build time, or will distros have to set this themselves? + - A: It will not be enabled by default. Distros would need to + enable it themselves.(Thanks!) +- Q11: Could we avoid libgccjit.so? Or consider using another jit lib + (e.g. dynasm used by luajit) et al to gain better optimization + - A: libgccjit is more for AoT compilation, more in-depth + optimization, which JITters don't typically do, so they aren't + really equivalent. +- Q12: How much of emacs C code base could be translated to + emacs-lisp? What is the minimum C code base necessary? (seems + duplicate of Q6) + - A: Very hard questions to answer. :) Not generally + feasible/worth to convert most of it. +- Q13: could we statically type elisp code (via macros?) to provide + more optimization hints to compiler? + - A: Hope to extend existing Elisp variable-type annotations to + arguments and use that for optimization. +- Q14: Elisp and Python all are dynamically typed langauge, but + benchmark shows that Elisp runs slower than Python. Could we learn + some best practices from the Python community? As you mentioned. + make parameter type annotated is a promising point. + - A: Not sure if Elisp is really generally slower than Python. + The Elisp bytecode VM is similar in design to the Python VM. + Some native-compiled Elisp may already be faster than Python, + e.g. for certain math code. +- Q15: Did you try to optimize with Rust too? What are your thoughts + on Rust for this particular optimization and security? + - A: Optimize what? There is no Rust here. :) Rust is + interesting, though. There may be some possibilities, e.g. with + regard to some similarities between Rust and some CL + implementations. +- Q16: Why not implement Emacs Lisp in Guile and use Guile's + compiler? + - A: (not Andrea answering) This has already been tried and done, + lookup Guilemacs, e.g. on EmacsWiki. + - A: I think they meant to implement Elisp in Guile, and not + to replace Elisp with Scheme + - Yes, that's already been done. Guile can already run + some subset of Elisp. Look it up. :) + +BBB: + +- Where did funding for your work came from? Will you be able to maintain this in the foreseeable future? +- akrk: What kinds of applications do you envision native-comp enabling to work well in Emacs in the next few years, that wouldn't otherwise be possible? +- Is this the first real-world practical use of libgccjit? +- Is there any easy tasks you need help with? +- yes, your updates and communication with the community have been great +- I believe, going by the aliases, there's at least a couple of GNU compiler hackers in this BBB room now :) +- you mentioned that these improvements are orthogonal to the garbage collector. Do you know of any work on that area? +- hmmm XEmacs got a new GC, much better -- and it turned out *slower* than the original. This stuff is hard... + - NullNix: Really? Yesterday Stefan mentioned XEmacs's GC and said that it could be used in GNU Emacs + - Alas, quite noticeably slower :( cache locality, probably. It may be possible to make it faster with more work, though, while the existing Emacs one is probably at its implementation limits. + - IIRC, the XEmacs one was a generational GC. It was a long time ago though, ICBW + - The JDK and Go both have interesting GC designs in this area... +- some level of "naive" optimism is necessary to start working on these big projects :) +- what kind of packages do you think could be now practical with native comp? +- ok, but what are the limits, in your opinion? How fast can elisp go? +- relevant link: <https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/GuileEmacs> (with caveats. lots of caveats). note: guile has native support for elisp -- but the lack of buffers, the different rep with strings, etc, was *hard*. the guile compiler changed a *lot* in v3. v1.8 -> 2.0 -> 2.2 -> 3.0 were all big changes in the guile comp world +- indeed :) +- What are some other hobbies/interests of yours besides Emacs? + - Questioner: cool, reminds me of Thierry Volpiatto who's a professional climber, and there are several Emacsers who do DJing; that would be fun; "Emacs Plumbers Conf"; +- will you be presenting there or anywhere else in the next year? +- Emacs keeps creeping toward being the Lisp Machine of the 21st century :) + - not only that, but with LSP and things like Doom, there is an increasing appeal for Emacs as an editor for the general public; native compilation will help with that +- (Probably a live question) + - yes, myths about emacs-devel are hard to dispel + - Eli is so patient with the people on Reddit :D + - agreed, we owe him a lot +- I've always wanted to do Emacs trading cards; like features, devs, etc :P + - that's a great idea :D + - I designed some for an old gaming clan years ago, it was a lot of fun + - Not American?~; in the US we have a tradition of baseball, and other sport playing cards, each with a picture and some stats on the back + - we have that with football (real football) in Europe :) +- (Probably live question + - there might be even more from RMS that weren't accounted for as separate commits when the repo was converted to git +- Where is the pre-git repository? + - I thought it was from bzr. + - I don't remember the details, but ESR's written about it on his blog IIRC +- do you have 'wish list' features, things you long for Emacs to be able to do? +- look for posts about reposurgeon +- dickmao has a patch that makes Gnus async.... 8k lines from what I've heard + - I recall that dickmao posted it to the Emacs tracker but it was somewhat monolithic and wasn't well accepted + - i think he was asked to break it down to more reviewable units +- One thing I wondered if you wanted to talk more about andrea was, to the prior point about "myths" about what emacs-devel is "like", there's also "make the culture your own". do you have advice on how to approach the community you haven't gotten to yet? + +BBB feedback: + +- Extremely impressive work, Andrea. Also, very needed for the long term sustainability of the platform. Thanks a lot for the hard work! + - Yes, if there were an Emacs Hall of Fame, Andrea would deserve a prominent place in it. :) + - we really do need an Emacs Hall of Fame so we can remember those who laid the foundations +- I think I can safely say that we are very grateful for your work, because there aren't many people in the world that could do it and who also have enough interest in Emacs to do so :) +- I have to go, thanks for replying to our questions, for the chat and for the incredible work, Andrea +- Thanks very much, and for your work on gccmacs :D +- thanks for the presentation and answering all of the questions. +thanks to you andrea for your awesome talk, and for the extended q&a! +IRC nick: akrl - What's the risk of (setq native-comp-speed 3)? will it melt my cpu? - The same as the risk of using -O3 with gcc. It gives itself the latitude to aggressively optimise away code elements which it believes are unnecessary, up to and including violating the language semantics of lisp (which gcc doesn't inherently care about). -O3 is something which is fine for specific cases where you test afterwards, but you would never, for example, set -O3 globally in Gentoo. - so we can get type annotations in Elisp?! diff --git a/2021/talks/news.md b/2021/talks/news.md index 29603885..79cc9bb0 100644 --- a/2021/talks/news.md +++ b/2021/talks/news.md @@ -14,16 +14,18 @@ Quick overview of Emacs community highlights since the last conference You can find the links and images at <https://github.com/sachac/emacsconf-2021-emacs-news-highlights> -# Questions, answers, and community-provided links +# Discussion - how do I "type" an emoji? I know how to copy them from ~/bigsrc/emacs28/admin/unidata/emoji-test.txt, but there must be better ways... - you could use emojify-mode (there's M-x emojify-insert-emoji) - - Other notes: - Oh wow, I didn't actually know about embark - Yeah, switch to "smaller" turned out to be quite nice - but noticed projectile greps faster than consult/counsel in a lot of cases - Oh wow, the color picker!!! - + - a huge thank you for such an understandable yet detailed summary of what's happening in the Emacs world! + - From [YouTube](www.youtube.com/watch?v=270ljvW6UrA&feature=em-comments): Excellent summary!! Thanks for the timestamps as well. + + [[!inline pages="internal(2021/captions/news)" raw="yes"]] [[!inline pages="internal(2021/info/news-nav)" raw="yes"]] diff --git a/2021/talks/nongnu.md b/2021/talks/nongnu.md index b38e7492..9bfa990a 100644 --- a/2021/talks/nongnu.md +++ b/2021/talks/nongnu.md @@ -23,6 +23,9 @@ ELPA is and how it works, update the participants on what has happened since last year and what maintainers have to do if they want their packages to be added to the repository. +# Discussion: + +- It was really pleasant to listen to. [[!inline pages="internal(2021/captions/nongnu)" raw="yes"]] diff --git a/2021/talks/omegat.md b/2021/talks/omegat.md index 33c46ab9..f1bb4a3b 100644 --- a/2021/talks/omegat.md +++ b/2021/talks/omegat.md @@ -29,6 +29,10 @@ The sources are regularly updated with a po4a based shell script. IRC nick: brandelune +- Q: Does this project encompass Emacs packages? Is there anything we can do, as package authors, to make translation easier? +- Q: Could this package be used to generate translated and well-formatted MOBI or EPUB ebooks? Or better yet, an interactive multi-language Emacs Manual "Bible" App for Android? +- Q: I love OmegaT and use it always. But I would have liked to hear about the experience of working both with Emacs and OmegaT. Can you tell us something about it? + - translation is nice but typing anything non latin or cyrillic is hard with keyboard - Try out the Emacs IMF. One of the main reasons I use Emacs. Input Method Framework: https://www.gnu.org/software/emacs/manual/html_node/emacs/Input-Methods.html - Hi, thanks for the talk. I love OmegaT and use it always. But I would have liked to here about the experience of working both with Emacs and OmegaT. Can you tell us something about it? diff --git a/2021/talks/org-outside.md b/2021/talks/org-outside.md index c0799e21..e13948b0 100644 --- a/2021/talks/org-outside.md +++ b/2021/talks/org-outside.md @@ -8,6 +8,8 @@ # The use of Org mode syntax outside of GNU/Emacs Karl Voit +[[!taglink CategoryOrgMode]] + [[!inline pages="internal(2021/info/org-outside-schedule)" raw="yes"]] With the rising interest in Org mode, the GNU/Emacs community gained @@ -37,7 +39,21 @@ information. # Discussion +Pad: + +- Q1: Great talk. I have been following your work on PIM for a while + (incl. a sneak read of your dissertation:-). Just curious, what + would you personally use Orgdown for? + - A: Oh, this would be a very loooong answer. I think you want to + visit: + - <https://karl-voit.at/tags/emacs/> and go to other pages + like <https://karl-voit.at/2019/09/25/using-orgmode/> + - Basically, Orgdown is already part of my workflows since + years: <https://github.com/novoid/lazyblorg/> or + <https://github.com/novoid/appendorgheading/> and much more. + BBB: + - Hi Karl. I was wondering, does the specification make any restrictions with regard to indentation levels or hard vs. soft line breaks? Do you have any type of test suites that an implementation can use to be "certified" as orgdown(1)? - Are you worried about the different levels of orgdown leading to the same confusing situation we have with Markdown? - I think the ability to indicate that some tools are compatible with org is fantastic! @@ -60,12 +76,14 @@ BBB: - neorg seems to be an expanded org-mode syntax and is not compatible with orgmode BBB feedback: + - I think no tags is a good idea, very implementation specific - I think it's a fantastic idea, and the initial proposal is very good! - i need to go, but thanks for introducing the idea, excited to see where it goes! - Thanks for your proposal. I really hope it will work out. IRC: (nick: publicvoit) + - is there a tree-sitter parser for orgdown already? :P - it seems to me that as org evolves, either orgdown eventually becomes incompatible with org or org is prevented from changing because it would break orgdown. I guess backcompat with existing org documents constrains org-mode this way already, though - what level would you call github's implementation is? @@ -95,7 +113,21 @@ IRC: (nick: publicvoit) - I don't really see a big issue with org-mode vs. org vs. orgWHATEVER though - there are major search and discovery issues with bare "org" - I tend to use "org syntax" at the moment, but it isn't catchy enough - + + +From [YouTube](www.youtube.com/watch?v=JLuTYkhFDQY&feature=em-comments): + +- Great idea! I’m not sure about the name though. To me it implies it has something syntactically to do with Markdown (which it doesn’t). In my view OrgMode markup is far more expressive than Markdown. It’s almost a new markup language in and of itself. So, how about OrgMark or Org Mode Markup Language aka OMML. + +Links and other notes: + +- The article from 2017 that started the whole discussion: "Org Mode + Is One of the Most Reasonable Markup Languages to Use for Text" + <https://karl-voit.at/2017/09/23/orgmode-as-markup-only/> +- Orgdown homepage: <https://gitlab.com/publicvoit/orgdown> +- Orgdown motivation article: + <https://karl-voit.at/2021/11/27/orgdown/> + # Outline - The term Org mode stands for different things diff --git a/2021/talks/pattern.md b/2021/talks/pattern.md index 2000c242..9779161b 100644 --- a/2021/talks/pattern.md +++ b/2021/talks/pattern.md @@ -8,9 +8,9 @@ # Emacs as Design Pattern Learning Greta Goetz -[[!inline pages="internal(2021/info/pattern-schedule)" raw="yes"]] +[[!taglink CategoryPhilosophy]] -Still working on it! In the meantime, you can watch it at <https://toobnix.org/w/afvaVspSSR9YypjUqTypQz> +[[!inline pages="internal(2021/info/pattern-schedule)" raw="yes"]] How do we manage today? This presentation is for people interested in thinking about Emacs as a tool sophisticated enough to cater to the complex assemblage of tasks, people, activities/outcomes, tools (Markauskaite & Goodyear). Some software oversimplifies. Emacs both helps users implement design pattern learning that can cope with complexity while also modeling design pattern learning. By championing the opportunity for users to also be co-creators (cf. Beaty et al.), the free software design at the core and center of Emacs teaches us a way of "being" (Alexander, Gabriel) that can be extended to both the Emacs community and beyond, in a knowledge of how to live (Stiegler, Illich). @@ -48,12 +48,198 @@ four years of Learning@Scale and charting the future. L@S 2018, June 26–28, 20 # Discussion -- this paper is relevant to exploring the space of design patterns: https://www.aaai.org/Papers/Workshops/1998/WS-98-08/WS98-08-024.pdf it's old and a little crytpic, but a good paper. it's "Recommender Systems for Problem Solving Environments" +Pad: + +- Q1: Any reference to a Christopher Alexander book that you liked + most? + - (peer answer A: + - Alexander, C. (1977). A pattern language: towns, buildings, + construction. New York: Oxford University Press. + - Alexander, C. (1979). The timeless way of building. New + York: Oxford University Press. (thanks!!) + - also check out: Gabriel, R. (1996). Patterns of software: + tales from the software community. New York: Oxford + University Press. + (<https://dreamsongs.com/Files/PatternsOfSoftware.pdf>) + - Alexander, C. (1993). *A foreshadowing of 21st century art: + The color and geometry of very early Turkish carpets*. New + York: Oxford University Press. + - A: The peer answer is excellent. If you are looking for an 'entryway' into Alexander, there is also his essay A City Is Not A Tree, <https://raw.githubusercontent.com/dmvaldman/library/master/essays/Alexander%20-%20A%20City%20Is%20Not%20A%20Tree.pdf>. +- Q2: You are making a great case for the ease-of-use, humanizing, and + empowering aspects of Emacs, but how does this align with the + initial difficulty for many users in learning Emacs? What is the + weakness of Emacs here, in relation to these design patterns? + - A: If we take a Vygotskyean approach to learning, we begin step + by step, gradually building on to what we know. What I found + fascinating as a non-programmer coming to Emacs was how this + approach works even in Emacs. Particularly if we are taking a + human-based approach to Emacs, it has no weakness here, because + humans can only move forwards from where they are, not where + they want to be. So Emacs becomes a good teacher in + process-based learning. We need to hierarchize what we know, + what we are ready/motivated to learn next, and also remember the + time required for growth. +- Q3: How do you suggest emacs users should go about desinging their + work(flow) patterns? + - A: Strangely, I seem to have answered this above! +- Q4: Emacs provides a lot of extensibility as mentioned in your talk. + This is a good thing, but such extensibility and possiblility can + sometimes inhibit creativity (for me at least). How could we + incorporate constraints in to how we use Emacs, in order to deal + with the possibilities that might make it's use more complex? A + great answer, thank you! + - A: I love this question. What about thinking about Emacs as + one's own path of desire? What do we want to do most with it? + But also, because Emacs is the ultimate blank canvas, in this + context I would recommend reading Cameron's "Blasting through + blocks" chapter in The Artist's Way to get through any related + anxiety and find one's 'creative purpose' with Emacs. And + building on an answer from above, taking things one + project/activity/outcome at a time. Trusting that over time + skills and proficiency grow. + - I like the idea about "Emacs as one's own path of + desire". It's all in my init.el. + - Emacs is seriously the best in this respect! :) And it is + so great to be part of this conference to be among like + minds!:) +- Q5:In your opinion, what approaches might be tried to introduce + individuals to these aspects of emacs's user experience? In my + experience, many of my co-workers are often impressed with what I am + able to do with emacs, but they remain reticent to attempt it + because I find it difficult to produce a suitably encapsulating + "elevator pitch" for it. + - A: Not everyone wants to think about the tools that they use. + Haha, that is why I am trying to get one convert at a time, and + let them convert others in their midst :) +- Q6: Are there ways to reach out to you after the conference to dig + deeper here? + - A: I blog at <https://gretzuni.com>; my professional site is <https://gretagoetz.com>. +- Q7:On the mention of emacs being 'frontierless': Doesn't this + result in a kind of 'characterless' or 'non-definied' space? For + example, if I learn a musical instrument, I am bound by various + frontiers/horizons (12 tone system, the tamber of the particular + instrument, etc). Surely there are similar limits on the + extensibility of emacs and the possibilities it offers for 'human + expansion'. If so, which limits/boundaries of emacs do you see as + most meaningful/impactful on growth and transformation? + - A: That is a really interesting question. Aren't the limits + here our knowledge? I am really stuck on the idea of Lisp and + its dialects as being particularly philosophical. Any time I + look at what people do with Lisp it seems to be profoundly + related to design on a deeper level. I will leave it here for + now - but thank you for the question, I will be sure to mull it + over and possibly blog about it at some point... + - Hi! Thank you for the answer, that was exactly what I was + thinking about (elisp being something particular/defining to the + emacs experienc/environment). I don't know lisp/programming + myself, so I was just interested in your perpsective! Really + loved the talk a lot! But the way, the question came from a + hermeneutic perspective, where boundaries/horizons are essential + for defining/demarcating the self (of course, within a boundary + there can be endless play, but the limits set the 'rules' for + play, and therefore create meaning).Thanks again! + - A: Wow - a fellow hermeneuticist?! + - Haha, yes. In my past life I studied it ;) also studied a lot of + Stiegler too, so was interested to find him in the talk! + - A: That is quite uncanny! The combination of the three (plus Emacs) + have given me a whole new perspective on life - and I wonder why + Stiegler didn't pursue Free Software more, though he does nod + to it here and there. Do you have any work to share, would you + like to keep in touch? + - sure! would be great! :) My main area was Ricoeur, so I have + written some things on Ricoeur and technology (there was a + recent volume on his work, and I wrote something on + postphenomenology and ricoeur) I've since left academia though, + because it was quite difficult to find full-time work + (especially since hermeneutics is so + underappreciated/underreppresented! so, I always get excited to + hear others talking about it ;) + - A: Yes, I know what you are talking about and actually the whole + future - and present - of academe is an interesting question - + haha that I think is related to Emacs, I mean, we do live in the + knowledge age so we need tools to help with this. Ricoeur has a + great essay on ideology and science critique, which is so limber + (as opposed to so much calcified academic thinking) and I am so + interested in exploring approaches to academe that 'continue + the ongoing work of the hermeneuticist' (I am paraphrasing him + here) that make use of technology, possibly through something + like Ted Nelson had in mind, where we literally trace the traces + among ideas... wow, that's a mouthful of a comment. Ha! I am + overjoyed at the opportunity for this conversation, thank you so + much! :) + - really interesting that you are referencing Ted Nelson in + this context. I think org-roam, in many ways, resembles what + he had in mind with Xandadu; well, with the limitation that + org-roam only serves Personal Information Management, not + our civilisations' as he intended with Xanadu. + - A: That's an interesting point - and related to how org-roam writer Leo is now extending org-roam to collaborative work as he explains in his talk <https://emacsconf.org/2021/talks/erg/>. + - Yes! the feeling is mutual :) I really love Ricoeur's general + style and approach to questions. Unfortunately he didn't write + much about technology itself, which made my job quite difficult! + But I did meet a friend of his once that told me that, in the + 70s, Ricouer had asked him "are we still writing when we use + computers?". So, he was thinking about the question at least. I + only discovered emacs after I finished all that word, but since + then I can finally say that 'yes!' we can 'write' using + computers (with writing being a core activity of the self for + Ricoeur). Also, I just wish I had emacs instead of just writing + so many academic papers in microsoft word! + - A: Yes, the moment of being freed from that software box and + having all the LaTeX options in Emacs (here, I list my fave) is + like stepping into technicolor out of black and white - to this + day, I still feel that way! So much you wrote is interesting. + Stiegler's concern of whether technology - like the writing pad + in Plato earlier - would strip us of our intellectual capacity + (I can see that possibly happening with automaticizing tools + like - maybe Excel is a good example, because one does not + really have to think about what one is doing). But Emacs use + prompts us to ask questions and design *exactly* what we are + looking for. + - wow, yes, that is so interesting. I never considered the + question of desire and emacs until your talk, and it was + definitely one of the most interesting parts! + In my work I was also mostly interested in Freud (the role of + 'technique' in psychoanalysis) and also Foucault's later + lectures on hermeneutics of the self/technologies of the self. + The angle of 'desire' in relation to personal + configuration/design was so interesting to me and like an + 'aha' moment. I'll definitely be thinking about it more! + Thank you so much again for the talk and all the responses! + - A: Thank you too, and hope we'll be in touch! + - Yes :) enjoy the rest of the conference! + - A: Likewise :) +- Q8: What was that Crichton quote? That was neat! (From the + references - Crichton, M. (1983). *Electronic life*. New York: + Knopf.) + - A: Thank you - I hope that general computing will have its day! +- Q9: Greta, you seem to be an academic researcher. Any of your + publications or other good references on this topic that you can + share/link here? +- Here are two: +- <https://doi.org/10.1080/00131857.2021.1962706> A song of teaching + with free software in the Anthropocene +- <https://10.1007/s42438-020-00188-3> The odyssey of pedagogies of + technoscientific literacies + +**Links and other notes:** + +- Design Pattern: macro solution; human-centered +- Emacs is a design pattern for learning. +- Why do we care about design patterns? +- Emacs as a mental map. +- Everyone's Emacs is their own. +- The development of the Emacs communitiy is similar to the [free] + core of Emacs devlopment. + +IRC: + +- this paper is relevant to exploring the space of design patterns: https://www.aaai.org/Papers/Workshops/1998/WS-98-08/WS98-08-024.pdf it's old and a little cryptic, but a good paper. it's "Recommender Systems for Problem Solving Environments" - greta: Thanks for that link! - if I may ask, what's the little toy figure in the background, looks nice :D - A wooden (fake) Transformer :) - do you think emacs could have implemented with this design pattern, but in another programming language? - + - Emacs Lisp as a dialect of Lisp shares its philosophical qualities. I often think about what Norvig wrote about Lisp back in the day, e.g. <https://www.norvig.com/lisp_talk_final.htm>, and while there are some people who feel strongly that Lisp's time is passed, I think that Emacs shows that it is the opposite: that we haven't fully taken advantage of Lisp's potential. Another example would be what Rick Hickey has done with Clojure, and recommend his talk Are We There Yet, <https://github.com/matthiasn/talk-transcripts/blob/master/Hickey_Rich/AreWeThereYet.md>. + Feedback: - That's a great point about the sketches, and why Emacs graphical improvements are important. diff --git a/2021/talks/professional.md b/2021/talks/professional.md index e0233886..5a16d2c1 100644 --- a/2021/talks/professional.md +++ b/2021/talks/professional.md @@ -8,6 +8,8 @@ # Using Org-Mode For Recording Continuous Professional Development Philip Beadling +[[!taglink CategoryOrgMode]] + [[!inline pages="internal(2021/info/professional-schedule)" raw="yes"]] I recently had the pleasure of being audited for my CPD record with one diff --git a/2021/talks/project.md b/2021/talks/project.md index 36fabeb2..d7f93c01 100644 --- a/2021/talks/project.md +++ b/2021/talks/project.md @@ -8,6 +8,8 @@ # Budgeting, Project Monitoring and Invoicing with Org Mode Adolfo Villafiorita +[[!taglink CategoryOrgMode]] + [[!inline pages="internal(2021/info/project-schedule)" raw="yes"]] In this talk I will present how we use Org Mode at Shair.Tech for diff --git a/2021/talks/research.md b/2021/talks/research.md index 770e6185..a0468c64 100644 --- a/2021/talks/research.md +++ b/2021/talks/research.md @@ -8,6 +8,9 @@ # Managing a research workflow (bibliographies, note-taking, and arXiv) Ahmed Khaled +[[!taglink CategoryOrgMode]] +[[!taglink CategoryOrgRoam]] + [[!inline pages="internal(2021/info/research-schedule)" raw="yes"]] [Configuration I use in Doom Emacs as part of my academic reading/notetaking workflow](https://gist.github.com/rka97/57779810d3664f41b0ed68a855fcab54) diff --git a/2021/talks/structural.md b/2021/talks/structural.md index c301fc3b..03089a2d 100644 --- a/2021/talks/structural.md +++ b/2021/talks/structural.md @@ -48,6 +48,33 @@ Check out the GitHub repo [here](https://github.com/ethan-leba/tree-edit)! IRC nick: ethan +- Q1: so tree-edit is orthogonal to the LSP features? + - A: only uses tree-sitter yeah +- Q2:any chance you tried this with Clojure as well? + - A: haven't tried it yet, i don't think tree-sitter-langs has a + clojure grammar AFAIK +- Q3: Would we be able to do things like extract statement to a + variable? For example, extract a a math operation happening in a + fucntion call argument into a separate variable an then replace the + funtion call arg with the variable name. +- Q4: How do tree-edit and combobulate compare? + - A: a lot of similarities, tree-edit replaces traditional text + editing style combobulate still implements +- Q5: Are similar packages for structural editing common to other + editors or they are just popular in Emacs cause of the paredit + tradition? + - A: emacs seems to be a trend-setter +- Q6: Great talk! How difficult do you imagine adding more languages + to Tree-edit will be? + - A: Trying to add python, not super simple, C-like should be drop + in replacements +- Q7: @ethan Could tree-edit be made to work with Org (orgdown!) + itself, or maybe rather what would be needed to get such a unified + tree-editing framework to work also for complex Org trees? +- Q8: Any plans for an Evil mode integration? evil-textobj-tree-sitter + seems like it has a long way to go if it's to catch up to + tree-edit. + - any chance you tried this with Clojure as well? - ethan: haven't tried it yet, i don't think tree-sitter-langs has a clojure grammar AFAIK - yeah I use sogaiu's (https://github.com/sogaiu/tree-sitter-clojure) but it does not have if else and the rest, only the main data types @@ -62,6 +89,17 @@ IRC nick: ethan - Andrew Blinn's talk on Fructure and Ethan Leba's talk on Tree-edit are really insightful. - Agreed about the lack of formal grammar (only a proliferation of parsers) being a limiting factor. Maybe we could bridge directly to the available commands without going through a grammar though. A unified tree-editing framework across languages but definitely including Org would be awesome (ala lispy/etc). +Links and other notes: + +- Github repo : <https://github.com/ethan-leba/tree-edit> +- editing operations that map directly to the structure of the + language +- inspired by paredit and lispy +- Another similar project is <https://github.com/mickeynp/combobulate> + by Mickey Petersen, the writer of Mastering Emacs. +- It's an open source project so contributers are welcome +- Future implication for this kind of work could be voice controlled + code writing/editing # Outline diff --git a/2021/talks/teach.md b/2021/talks/teach.md index 506cf96e..16052178 100644 --- a/2021/talks/teach.md +++ b/2021/talks/teach.md @@ -8,6 +8,8 @@ # Using Org-mode to teach programming Daniel German +[[!taglink CategoryOrgMode]] + [[!inline pages="internal(2021/info/teach-schedule)" raw="yes"]] In this presentation I will explain how to use org-mode effectively to @@ -34,6 +36,7 @@ org-mode for this purpose. # Discussion IRC: + - how do you keep the discipline of working on your notes? that's probably my biggest problem - I like "Try that with PowerPoint!" as a new org-babel slogan - we just need krita and inkscape modes @@ -41,6 +44,7 @@ IRC: - I liked the trick with annotating the code in xournal -- what is the elisp glue for that? Do you have a package for that? BBB: + - Can you talk about how the students re0act to this org-mode approach? - What level are your students typically? what is the subject matter? - Why GitHub? GitHub is nonfree. @@ -49,6 +53,10 @@ BBB: - GitLab.com is just as bad (and unlike GitHub, you can't sign in without nonfree JS), but GitLab CE is fine. - Do you think org-mode+git could be used for students' assignments? +From [YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bmi9AAaqegY&feature=em-comments): + +- this is by far one of the most motivating talk about Org. I feel sorry about all my teaching colleagues that still use WYSIWYG presentation tools. my life, as a trainer, literally changed with Org, even without literate programming. +- Great presentation. New to Emacs and starting to find many uses for it. One thing which theme you are using # Outline diff --git a/2021/talks/tech.md b/2021/talks/tech.md index 6a26281c..c327181d 100644 --- a/2021/talks/tech.md +++ b/2021/talks/tech.md @@ -8,6 +8,8 @@ # Creating technical API documentation and presentations using org-babel, restclient, and org-treeslide Jan Ypma +[[!taglink CategoryOrgMode]] + [[!inline pages="internal(2021/info/tech-schedule)" raw="yes"]] The emacs org-babel package is often mentioned in conjunction with @@ -26,7 +28,22 @@ org-treeslide to write and present technical documentation with style. # Discussion +Pad: + +- Q1: Sorry if you already answered this somewhere (but if not, can + someone with a reddit account copy this over? thx). Hi, I would love + to move my team over to using something org-based, but that'll + never happen because, well... (wait for it) Emacs! By the way, I'm + currently using heavily customized Sphinx setup, mostly internal, + sometimes shared with data partners; lots of schema-gen from message + protocols defined in code, etc. Anyhow: questions. Do you work with + non-Emacs users? If so, how did you get them to accept this + workflow? And if it's just you DJ'ing, how do they weigh in when + they want an update, open a formal ticket? +- <https://github.com/jypma/emacsconf2021/blob/master/presentation.org> + BBB: + - Have you encountered any push-back from people requesting the documentation who are of the opinion that only a Word document will do? - Jan: Not really, I tend to deliver the PDFs only. If more is needed, I expect I'd make a docker container with emacs in it, so people can export the org-file to PDF themselves. - The main problem I have is that effectively they end up branching it in order to use Word's change tracking, and there is no reverse path. @@ -39,6 +56,7 @@ BBB: - Jan: Hold their hands, be kind, small baby steps :) IRC: (nick: jan-ypma) + - I use restclient everyday, but never thought about using it from code blocks, duh! Very interesting talk! - This is a good demo, I've found org-babel to be a really amazing glue language for stuff that's sort of annoying to automate otherwise. - Thanks! :) So the fonts of the current talk are: Fixed pitch (serif): New Heterodox Mono, Variable pitch (serif): ETBembo diff --git a/2021/talks/telega.md b/2021/talks/telega.md index e664bf4e..54a151f4 100644 --- a/2021/talks/telega.md +++ b/2021/talks/telega.md @@ -22,6 +22,18 @@ highlight some of the most important features. # Discussion +- Q1: Do any of these main emacs telegram groups bridge to matrix? + - A: [Speaker] We discussed adding a bridge to matrix for the + main channel @emacs_en. We never got around to doing it, but I + can bring this up again. +- Q2: Could telega.el auto install TDLib like lsp-mode auto installs + servers? +- A: [Speaker] Possibly. The difference is that TDLib requires a + number of dependencies that might not be available. Evgeny chose + another route to simplify setting up telega.el: the package can now + be installed with a Dockerfile that also ships with also the + optional dependencies. This ensures that everything works as + intended. - Does telega still require company for completion? - Telegram has become a real (and desired) option to WhatsApp, thanks to telega.el diff --git a/2021/talks/test.md b/2021/talks/test.md index b858bd4e..9165e7b6 100644 --- a/2021/talks/test.md +++ b/2021/talks/test.md @@ -25,7 +25,7 @@ running 'dofile "foo.lua"'), and then has several tests for that class and its methods; and we can put another block with tests like that after the class Bletch, and other blocks after some functions. Eepitch allows sending these tests line by line to the Lua interpreter by -typing <f8\> on each line that we want to send, and this lets us create +typing <f8> on each line that we want to send, and this lets us create tests that are very easy to understand even without writing comments; this gives us a very quick way to document code by executable tests, that is super-great for experimental code that is still going to @@ -33,10 +33,10 @@ change a lot before running the risk of being read by other people. These multi-line comments with eepitch blocks that run an interpreter and make it load the current file are called "test blocks". The -command \`M-x eeit' inserts a test block at point, using the major mode +command `M-x eeit' inserts a test block at point, using the major mode to decide the right syntax to use for the multi-line comments and for the "dofile". We can configure the syntax of the test blocks for the -current major mode by running \`M-x find-eeit-links'; this can also be +current major mode by running `M-x find-eeit-links'; this can also be used to add support for test blocks to more languages (or, more precisely: to more major modes). diff --git a/2021/talks/ui.md b/2021/talks/ui.md index 40d69b68..0fbf9322 100644 --- a/2021/talks/ui.md +++ b/2021/talks/ui.md @@ -32,46 +32,69 @@ by implementing some basic UI's. # Discussion -IRC: -- I'm trying the run your demos of tui... it seems that (add-to-list 'load-path "~/usrc/tui.el/") is not enough, I have to either add the subdirectories by hand or to run a standard function - whose name I don't know - to add the subdirs... -- hey, I'm trying to run your demos of tui... I had to add the subdirectories to the load-path manually to make (require 'tui-tic-tac-toe) work. my notes are here: https://0x0.st/-7dV.txt -- tui.el is very exciting, should open up a new era of more advanced UI in Emacs -- seems like we can get some really cool emacs ui going in combination with svg.el -- combine with the magit approach to menus (transient etc) and something very nice is coming! -- I think anything you can show in a buffer should work with this, so images, text, whatever. -- tui.el is just too cool: I am going to try it for sure :D +Pad: + +- Q1: A common issue I have with Magit status buffers is that focus + get lost easily when staging hunks since scroll gets lost during + re-render (Magit attempts at recovering). Are we getting magit-tui? + - A: It is certainly possible and compatible. + - I am interested in tui.el but haven't looked at it too closely + yet. Have been entertaining the idea of something like this for + a long time now. -- jonas (magit maintainer) +- Q2:We can update images as well?! Like SVG, or the comics you shown. + This is awesome! + - A: Yes, that's possible. +- Q3:Have you tried to display any diagram? Like UML sequence diagrams +- Q4: So does tui implement some sort of DOM model? + - A: Yes. +- Q5: How does performance compare with some other libraries, like + EWOC, magit-section, tabulated-list? e.g. to render a view with + thousands of elements (and thank you for your work on this, it's + very exciting for Emacs's future) + - A: In general EWOC and tabulated-list should perform better, and + tui still needs some optimization. TUI has the potential to be + better, but it needs some work. +- Q6: Are you planning to contribute tui.el to emacs core? + - A: Eventually, once its polished and more robust. +- Q7: What is the memory overhead like, e.g. I guess values are hashed + to detect whether items need to be re-rendered? + - A: Haven't done any memory profiling, but memory overhead could + probably be an issue. +- Q8: Awesome. Would lack of concurrency/multi-threading in Emacs be + an issue? BBB: + - like in dogears.el readme - So I'm really interested in potentially using tui for Ement.el -- there are 2 or 3 ways I could imagine using it... - 1. For the room buffers, showing events in the chat rooms. That sometimes has thousands of events, so that's why I asked about performance for that case. - It seems like it could be very helpful for re-rendering some events when their content changes, e.g. when messages are edited, when coalescing adjacent join/leave events... -- That sounds interesting. I don't know anything about React - EWOC does work for that to some extent, but I've been unable to get nested EWOCs to work correctly so far, so TUI is an interesting alternative -- yes IIRC - yeah, EWOC uses markers too AFAIK, and it seems to perform well enough even with 2000-3000 events in a buffer - oh yeah, your grid idea -- that would be SO useful - yes, sorting and filtering, temporarily hiding elements! -- that would be SO useful - like "show all messages from this user or mentioning that user in this room" - and then press a key and all the others are shown again -- ahh, I need that! :) - expanding larger images from thumbnails, captions for files, etc - like Element.io but in Emacs with TUI, that would be great - that's the official Matrix Web client -- I think it uses React -- but I'm not sure - Sounds great! well thanks for the presentation, I really look forward to TUI's progress! maybe someday I can help with it, in the distant future... I have too many Emacs projects already :) - hmm, a TUI library for taxy.el... more ideas! - TUI would be like a natural frontend for taxy.el as a backend -- that would be fun :) - are you on Matrix by any chance? -- maybe someday, need to get more people "jacked in" :) - I'm bad with email, but when I have time to check out TUI in more detail, I look forward to it! -Feedback +IRC: + +- I'm trying the run your demos of tui... it seems that (add-to-list 'load-path "~/usrc/tui.el/") is not enough, I have to either add the subdirectories by hand or to run a standard function - whose name I don't know - to add the subdirs... +- hey, I'm trying to run your demos of tui... I had to add the subdirectories to the load-path manually to make (require 'tui-tic-tac-toe) work. my notes are here: https://0x0.st/-7dV.txt +- tui.el is very exciting, should open up a new era of more advanced UI in Emacs +- seems like we can get some really cool emacs ui going in combination with svg.el +- combine with the magit approach to menus (transient etc) and something very nice is coming! +- I think anything you can show in a buffer should work with this, so images, text, whatever. +- tui.el is just too cool: I am going to try it for sure :D + +IRC feedback: - I like the bird mascot on the repo readme :) - FYI if you would want it to show at the side of the readme, you can see the Org markup I use to accomplish that in some of my readmes diff --git a/2021/talks/unix.md b/2021/talks/unix.md index 14ff82fd..c9a9263a 100644 --- a/2021/talks/unix.md +++ b/2021/talks/unix.md @@ -8,6 +8,8 @@ # GNU's Not UNIX: Why Emacs Demonstrates The UNIX Philosophy Isn't Always The Only Answer Daniel Rose +[[!taglink CategoryPhilosophy]] + [[!inline pages="internal(2021/info/unix-schedule)" raw="yes"]] The talk targets users who are curious about computational philosophies, @@ -25,12 +27,30 @@ to be more performant than without. IRC nick: thecatster +- Q: So, how do you decide when it's not "worth it" to use Emacs + for a certain thing? +- Q: What's your opinion on EAF? +- Q: What is your opinion on starter-kits and making emacs + accessible, practical for people who want to keep things simple? +- Q: Do you integrate tools via Emacs or you just jump between those? + For example, did you need to integrate your C WM somehow with Emacs? + - A: mostly via keybindings. Thanks for the answer! +- Q: Do you use Emacs for email? + - A: I do, and many more clients too. +- Q: No personal website? + - A: <https://www.danielr.xyz> +- Q:When will Emacs improve its GC and support truely multithreading? + Feedback: - I really appreciate this talk's perspective! I'm very invested in living inside, Emacs, but this is also a great perspective! - yes, nice perspective. Saying that I am struggeling with that is overstating it, but sometimes it does make me think. thank you Daniel! - Nice talk, I feel like some Emacs purists could complain but let's be honest, this is a reasonable take on actually getting stuff done +From [YouTube](www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXVjCRIqS4c&feature=em-comments): + +- Right on. For most of these reasons I’ve went back to Vim and just accepted it’s limitations rather than try and torture it into a Frankenstein IDE that half works. When I need to do $LANG work especially debugging, I use vs code or Xcode etc and most of the big IDEs have Vim keybinding emulation that is good enough to get to work. + # Outline - How can one limit their usage of CLI tools while still maintaining |