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+WEBVTT
+
+00:00:00.640 --> 00:00:04.160
+okay so the first question is what is an
+
+00:00:04.160 --> 00:00:05.680
+example of a car
+
+00:00:05.680 --> 00:00:08.800
+a package currently in
+
+00:00:08.800 --> 00:00:12.160
+a non-elpa repo that does not work well
+
+00:00:12.160 --> 00:00:13.759
+with Emacs
+
+00:00:13.759 --> 00:00:18.000
+well one of them is s dot el
+
+00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:19.760
+and this is what made me aware that
+
+00:00:19.760 --> 00:00:21.920
+there was an issue here that caused
+
+00:00:21.920 --> 00:00:25.760
+problems well s.e.l
+
+00:00:25.760 --> 00:00:29.439
+is a beautifully written package
+
+00:00:29.439 --> 00:00:31.279
+that appears to be very useful for
+
+00:00:31.279 --> 00:00:32.800
+people
+
+00:00:32.800 --> 00:00:36.320
+and there's just one thing wrong with it
+
+00:00:36.320 --> 00:00:39.520
+it gobbled up the name space
+
+00:00:39.520 --> 00:00:43.680
+of symbols starting with s dash
+
+00:00:43.680 --> 00:00:47.039
+and I was shocked to discover that
+
+00:00:47.039 --> 00:00:49.440
+somebody who had not coordinated with
+
+00:00:49.440 --> 00:00:51.760
+the Emacs developers at all
+
+00:00:51.760 --> 00:00:55.360
+had implemented a package using such a
+
+00:00:55.360 --> 00:00:56.800
+short prefix which
+
+00:00:56.800 --> 00:00:59.760
+isn't the right way to do things oh by
+
+00:00:59.760 --> 00:01:01.520
+the way the questions have moved off the
+
+00:01:01.520 --> 00:01:04.000
+screen this is no good I can continue
+
+00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:05.360
+answering this one
+
+00:01:05.360 --> 00:01:08.880
+but I'll be stuck when this one is over
+
+00:01:08.880 --> 00:01:12.159
+anyway so uh
+
+00:01:12.159 --> 00:01:15.040
+and I was told that there was nothing I
+
+00:01:15.040 --> 00:01:16.560
+could do about it
+
+00:01:16.560 --> 00:01:19.920
+that so many users packages were using
+
+00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:22.960
+swl and thus essentially using that
+
+00:01:22.960 --> 00:01:24.240
+definition
+
+00:01:24.240 --> 00:01:28.080
+of the s dash star symbols
+
+00:01:28.080 --> 00:01:31.360
+that any attempt to use them
+
+00:01:31.360 --> 00:01:34.720
+publicly or privately for anything else
+
+00:01:34.720 --> 00:01:38.079
+would lead to horrible problems
+
+00:01:38.079 --> 00:01:41.680
+and I don't like that
+
+00:01:41.680 --> 00:01:45.520
+I decided I wanted to do something
+
+00:01:45.520 --> 00:01:49.040
+a so that that wouldn't happen again
+
+00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:52.320
+and b to make it unhappen
+
+00:01:52.320 --> 00:01:55.119
+in that case well the way to make it
+
+00:01:55.119 --> 00:01:57.840
+unhappen in that case is with a new
+
+00:01:57.840 --> 00:02:02.240
+symbol renaming feature the idea is
+
+00:02:02.240 --> 00:02:05.360
+you rename that file to something else
+
+00:02:05.360 --> 00:02:09.119
+and then you define an s.e.l that
+
+00:02:09.119 --> 00:02:11.520
+sets up symbol renaming and then loads
+
+00:02:11.520 --> 00:02:13.040
+the something else
+
+00:02:13.040 --> 00:02:16.080
+so it actually runs the same code it
+
+00:02:16.080 --> 00:02:16.400
+just
+
+00:02:16.400 --> 00:02:20.879
+doesn't globally define the symbols
+
+00:02:20.879 --> 00:02:23.920
+s dash whatever but they
+
+00:02:23.920 --> 00:02:26.160
+appear to work for the programs that
+
+00:02:26.160 --> 00:02:28.319
+explicitly
+
+00:02:28.319 --> 00:02:32.640
+require that require sdl
+
+00:02:32.640 --> 00:02:36.000
+or the s package so this gets the same
+
+00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:38.080
+behavior for all the programs that are
+
+00:02:38.080 --> 00:02:40.239
+using that library
+
+00:02:40.239 --> 00:02:43.360
+and uh doesn't interfere
+
+00:02:43.360 --> 00:02:47.840
+with the global name space at all
+
+00:02:47.840 --> 00:02:50.319
+however to do that we need to have a
+
+00:02:50.319 --> 00:02:52.080
+package
+
+00:02:52.080 --> 00:02:55.360
+s.e.l that isn't the same
+
+00:02:55.360 --> 00:02:57.760
+totally a short file that's totally
+
+00:02:57.760 --> 00:02:58.640
+different
+
+00:02:58.640 --> 00:03:01.440
+plus we've got to have the file that
+
+00:03:01.440 --> 00:03:02.840
+normally is called
+
+00:03:02.840 --> 00:03:06.239
+s.e.l available but
+
+00:03:06.239 --> 00:03:10.319
+uh under another name well
+
+00:03:10.319 --> 00:03:13.040
+how are we going to do that we can't put
+
+00:03:13.040 --> 00:03:14.800
+this into
+
+00:03:14.800 --> 00:03:18.879
+into Emacs in a nice way that
+
+00:03:18.879 --> 00:03:21.920
+won't make the uh won't make the
+
+00:03:21.920 --> 00:03:24.560
+maintainer angry
+
+00:03:24.560 --> 00:03:26.480
+of the mate to the developer of that
+
+00:03:26.480 --> 00:03:28.159
+package
+
+00:03:28.159 --> 00:03:32.080
+but we can do it with non-gnu
+
+00:03:32.080 --> 00:03:34.640
+elpa we can put those two things into
+
+00:03:34.640 --> 00:03:36.239
+non-gnu elpa
+
+00:03:36.239 --> 00:03:38.720
+without any difficulty and this shows
+
+00:03:38.720 --> 00:03:40.720
+one of the advantages
+
+00:03:40.720 --> 00:03:43.280
+we can put files we can put packages
+
+00:03:43.280 --> 00:03:45.440
+into non-gdu elpa
+
+00:03:45.440 --> 00:03:48.400
+and make changes in them now in general
+
+00:03:48.400 --> 00:03:49.599
+we wouldn't
+
+00:03:49.599 --> 00:03:51.760
+go to the effort of making big changes
+
+00:03:51.760 --> 00:03:54.319
+that's just too much to do
+
+00:03:54.319 --> 00:03:56.400
+unless something's really important but
+
+00:03:56.400 --> 00:03:58.000
+small changes
+
+00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:01.120
+that help things fit in are
+
+00:04:01.120 --> 00:04:04.319
+easy to do and
+
+00:04:04.319 --> 00:04:07.120
+uh okay oh so basically the recording
+
+00:04:07.120 --> 00:04:10.319
+didn't get anything until now I just saw
+
+00:04:10.319 --> 00:04:13.439
+a note pop up this session is now being
+
+00:04:13.439 --> 00:04:14.319
+recorded
+
+00:04:14.319 --> 00:04:16.320
+I hope it's been recorded all along it
+
+00:04:16.320 --> 00:04:18.160
+would be a shame to
+
+00:04:18.160 --> 00:04:21.280
+spoil oh good okay
+
+00:04:21.280 --> 00:04:27.120
+okay good so uh that's one of the issues
+
+00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:30.479
+uh does non-gnu eopa already exist
+
+00:04:30.479 --> 00:04:33.840
+or is this a sort of quote plan I don't
+
+00:04:33.840 --> 00:04:35.360
+know why you have to
+
+00:04:35.360 --> 00:04:37.919
+put scare quotes around the word plan
+
+00:04:37.919 --> 00:04:40.400
+it's sort of in between
+
+00:04:40.400 --> 00:04:44.160
+it's the creation of it is started you
+
+00:04:44.160 --> 00:04:45.440
+will find
+
+00:04:45.440 --> 00:04:48.160
+that there is an archive that it's
+
+00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:51.520
+possible to download packages from
+
+00:04:51.520 --> 00:04:54.880
+and there is a repository to put them in
+
+00:04:54.880 --> 00:04:57.120
+but that's not the way it's really
+
+00:04:57.120 --> 00:04:58.560
+supposed to work
+
+00:04:58.560 --> 00:05:02.800
+uh this is not supposed to be like the
+
+00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:04.320
+new elpa where there's
+
+00:05:04.320 --> 00:05:07.280
+one repo for all the packages and thus
+
+00:05:07.280 --> 00:05:09.039
+anyone who wants to edit any of them
+
+00:05:09.039 --> 00:05:11.199
+anyone that we want to have edit any of
+
+00:05:11.199 --> 00:05:11.680
+them
+
+00:05:11.680 --> 00:05:13.280
+has got to have access to the whole
+
+00:05:13.280 --> 00:05:15.440
+thing for one thing
+
+00:05:15.440 --> 00:05:18.560
+some packages will make
+
+00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:21.840
+an arrangement with the developers
+
+00:05:21.840 --> 00:05:25.120
+and they'll assure us that they will
+
+00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:27.039
+do things as things should be done and
+
+00:05:27.039 --> 00:05:28.400
+then we'll
+
+00:05:28.400 --> 00:05:32.080
+have their repo copied automatically
+
+00:05:32.080 --> 00:05:35.919
+or in other cases say
+
+00:05:35.919 --> 00:05:38.160
+copied manually with a little checking
+
+00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:40.160
+every so often
+
+00:05:40.160 --> 00:05:43.199
+uh and then uh in
+
+00:05:43.199 --> 00:05:46.400
+other cases we'll need to have our own
+
+00:05:46.400 --> 00:05:49.440
+repo for a particular package
+
+00:05:49.440 --> 00:05:52.479
+but we shouldn't have a single repo for
+
+00:05:52.479 --> 00:05:54.400
+all the packages we should have a repo
+
+00:05:54.400 --> 00:05:55.919
+for each package
+
+00:05:55.919 --> 00:05:57.840
+so that the people working on that can
+
+00:05:57.840 --> 00:06:01.120
+get access to modify it
+
+00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:04.319
+this has to be finished setting up
+
+00:06:04.319 --> 00:06:06.080
+and we're still working out the
+
+00:06:06.080 --> 00:06:07.680
+procedures
+
+00:06:07.680 --> 00:06:11.039
+for instance for making the arrangements
+
+00:06:11.039 --> 00:06:14.400
+with the developers of a package so that
+
+00:06:14.400 --> 00:06:15.440
+we can
+
+00:06:15.440 --> 00:06:18.840
+we hope uh entrust its development to
+
+00:06:18.840 --> 00:06:20.400
+them and
+
+00:06:20.400 --> 00:06:24.800
+rely on them directly
+
+00:06:24.800 --> 00:06:26.560
+and there may be more that needs to be
+
+00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:29.840
+worked on
+
+00:06:29.840 --> 00:06:36.639
+oh there's so many questions
+
+00:06:36.639 --> 00:06:39.280
+well I hope you the third question is
+
+00:06:39.280 --> 00:06:40.880
+what are the benefits
+
+00:06:40.880 --> 00:06:43.680
+I hope that people now see the benefits
+
+00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:46.240
+I've described them
+
+00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:49.599
+uh next question is it possible to work
+
+00:06:49.599 --> 00:06:51.440
+with the melba team
+
+00:06:51.440 --> 00:06:54.720
+to integrate that into Emacs
+
+00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:59.440
+no because the goal doesn't make sense
+
+00:06:59.440 --> 00:07:03.759
+melba the way it's done does not belong
+
+00:07:03.759 --> 00:07:07.199
+inside Emacs in any sense well first of
+
+00:07:07.199 --> 00:07:08.560
+all it can't literally be
+
+00:07:08.560 --> 00:07:11.280
+inside Emacs we don't have copyright
+
+00:07:11.280 --> 00:07:13.280
+assignments for that code
+
+00:07:13.280 --> 00:07:18.160
+and to get it would be unfeasible
+
+00:07:18.160 --> 00:07:20.560
+but we're not asking for copyright
+
+00:07:20.560 --> 00:07:21.520
+assignments for
+
+00:07:21.520 --> 00:07:25.280
+non-gnu elpa so that's
+
+00:07:25.280 --> 00:07:27.599
+you might wonder could melpa be merged
+
+00:07:27.599 --> 00:07:31.440
+with non-venue elpa the problem is
+
+00:07:31.440 --> 00:07:35.039
+melpa doesn't modify the packages
+
+00:07:35.039 --> 00:07:38.240
+it's just a place to find releases of
+
+00:07:38.240 --> 00:07:41.360
+packages wherever they happen to be
+
+00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:44.800
+and they put packages in with
+
+00:07:44.800 --> 00:07:48.319
+only a little bit of checking
+
+00:07:48.319 --> 00:07:51.520
+so no we there are a lot of packages
+
+00:07:51.520 --> 00:07:51.919
+that are
+
+00:07:51.919 --> 00:07:55.280
+in melpa that we'd like to get into
+
+00:07:55.280 --> 00:07:58.479
+non-canoe elpa I don't know the names of
+
+00:07:58.479 --> 00:08:00.800
+most of them but I expect most of them
+
+00:08:00.800 --> 00:08:04.160
+would be fine to have but they've got to
+
+00:08:04.160 --> 00:08:08.560
+be looked at one by one
+
+00:08:08.560 --> 00:08:12.000
+there are some rules for non-glpa
+
+00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:14.479
+and the only way to check them is to
+
+00:08:14.479 --> 00:08:18.000
+check them on one package at a time
+
+00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:22.160
+and that's going to take effort
+
+00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:25.039
+now with the people who work on melba
+
+00:08:25.039 --> 00:08:26.080
+want to get involved
+
+00:08:26.080 --> 00:08:29.440
+of this that would be great
+
+00:08:29.440 --> 00:08:32.800
+I haven't tried asking them first we've
+
+00:08:32.800 --> 00:08:33.919
+got to get this thing
+
+00:08:33.919 --> 00:08:37.599
+set up I doubt they would want to
+
+00:08:37.599 --> 00:08:40.479
+but if they said yes that would be
+
+00:08:40.479 --> 00:08:44.159
+wonderful
+
+00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:48.399
+uh any thoughts of packages being
+
+00:08:48.399 --> 00:09:00.959
+added I'm afraid
+
+00:09:00.959 --> 00:09:05.440
+um
+
+00:09:05.440 --> 00:09:07.200
+I'm afraid any thoughts of packages
+
+00:09:07.200 --> 00:09:08.959
+being added as
+
+00:09:08.959 --> 00:09:11.040
+some url I don't know anything about but
+
+00:09:11.040 --> 00:09:13.120
+it talks about open source
+
+00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:16.800
+which means I'm very unlikely to have
+
+00:09:16.800 --> 00:09:17.680
+much
+
+00:09:17.680 --> 00:09:20.959
+in common with whatever they say about
+
+00:09:20.959 --> 00:09:24.080
+either licensing or
+
+00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:27.760
+what's right and wrong uh
+
+00:09:27.760 --> 00:09:29.959
+but this seems to be something about
+
+00:09:29.959 --> 00:09:31.920
+disregarding licenses
+
+00:09:31.920 --> 00:09:35.680
+altogether well that is basically
+
+00:09:35.680 --> 00:09:39.360
+asking to lose there are reasons
+
+00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:43.360
+why we developed gnu licenses to release
+
+00:09:43.360 --> 00:09:45.600
+software why we have criteria
+
+00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:48.320
+for which licenses make a program free
+
+00:09:48.320 --> 00:09:49.519
+software
+
+00:09:49.519 --> 00:09:52.640
+if the program doesn't carry a license
+
+00:09:52.640 --> 00:09:55.519
+or if it carries a non-free license that
+
+00:09:55.519 --> 00:09:56.080
+program
+
+00:09:56.080 --> 00:09:59.760
+is not free software now you can
+
+00:09:59.760 --> 00:10:02.839
+maybe get away with disregarding that
+
+00:10:02.839 --> 00:10:04.800
+fact uh unless
+
+00:10:04.800 --> 00:10:07.600
+somebody an author or publisher stops
+
+00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:08.959
+you
+
+00:10:08.959 --> 00:10:11.360
+but we're not going to take we're not
+
+00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:12.399
+basically going to
+
+00:10:12.399 --> 00:10:15.200
+disregard the question of whether the
+
+00:10:15.200 --> 00:10:16.399
+software we
+
+00:10:16.399 --> 00:10:19.040
+recommend to people really is free
+
+00:10:19.040 --> 00:10:21.360
+software or not
+
+00:10:21.360 --> 00:10:24.560
+that's basically uh
+
+00:10:24.560 --> 00:10:27.519
+blindfolding yourself to the legal
+
+00:10:27.519 --> 00:10:29.120
+situation of the software you're
+
+00:10:29.120 --> 00:10:30.480
+distributing
+
+00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:33.519
+it's a terrible idea uh if they
+
+00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:35.920
+disregard our licenses they will hear
+
+00:10:35.920 --> 00:10:38.640
+from us about it
+
+00:10:38.640 --> 00:10:40.959
+and if you want to contribute to the
+
+00:10:40.959 --> 00:10:42.720
+free world
+
+00:10:42.720 --> 00:10:46.320
+put free licenses on your code
+
+00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:48.640
+and choose good ones to get this
+
+00:10:48.640 --> 00:10:50.000
+information
+
+00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:53.440
+look at gnu.org slash licensing
+
+00:10:53.440 --> 00:10:57.120
+in particular slash licenses
+
+00:10:57.120 --> 00:10:59.839
+and one page that input that's important
+
+00:10:59.839 --> 00:11:01.120
+is license
+
+00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:05.040
+dash recommendations.html
+
+00:11:05.040 --> 00:11:07.360
+that's where we advise you on what
+
+00:11:07.360 --> 00:11:09.279
+license we would recommend you use
+
+00:11:09.279 --> 00:11:11.360
+depending on the circumstances
+
+00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:15.600
+there's also license dash list dot html
+
+00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:20.160
+which describes a lot of licenses and
+
+00:11:20.160 --> 00:11:22.160
+says which ones are free
+
+00:11:22.160 --> 00:11:25.040
+which ones are compatible with the new
+
+00:11:25.040 --> 00:11:26.160
+gpl
+
+00:11:26.160 --> 00:11:28.640
+it's really important to use only gpl
+
+00:11:28.640 --> 00:11:31.519
+compatible licenses
+
+00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:34.320
+so that the various programs can be
+
+00:11:34.320 --> 00:11:35.519
+combined together
+
+00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:40.720
+or linked and
+
+00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:43.120
+you can also get other information about
+
+00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:44.240
+gnu licenses
+
+00:11:44.240 --> 00:11:47.040
+and the reasons why they are written the
+
+00:11:47.040 --> 00:11:55.279
+way they are
+
+00:11:55.279 --> 00:12:03.200
+oh sorry I don't see the next question
+
+00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:05.600
+oh why do I insist on using per and
+
+00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:07.519
+purrs
+
+00:12:07.519 --> 00:12:11.680
+uh I'm not happy with using
+
+00:12:11.680 --> 00:12:14.959
+they which is a plural pronoun with a
+
+00:12:14.959 --> 00:12:17.440
+singular antecedent
+
+00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:20.480
+it's bad because it causes
+
+00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:24.800
+confusion that is completely gratuitous
+
+00:12:24.800 --> 00:12:28.639
+many sentences become a lot of work
+
+00:12:28.639 --> 00:12:33.200
+to parse and understand if you
+
+00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:36.480
+add that ambiguity that source of him of
+
+00:12:36.480 --> 00:12:39.839
+regular ambiguity now
+
+00:12:39.839 --> 00:12:42.720
+I do not accept the demands of other
+
+00:12:42.720 --> 00:12:43.680
+people
+
+00:12:43.680 --> 00:12:47.519
+in regard to changing my grammar
+
+00:12:47.519 --> 00:12:50.800
+you can try to convince me but
+
+00:12:50.800 --> 00:12:54.240
+no one is entitled to give me orders
+
+00:12:54.240 --> 00:12:55.440
+about that
+
+00:12:55.440 --> 00:12:58.880
+or state their desires and expect
+
+00:12:58.880 --> 00:13:03.200
+obedience not for me and not from you
+
+00:13:03.200 --> 00:13:06.560
+or anyone we are all
+
+00:13:06.560 --> 00:13:09.839
+equally entitled to decide
+
+00:13:09.839 --> 00:13:13.200
+how we will speak and how we won't speak
+
+00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:18.000
+now I've spelled out all of these points
+
+00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:22.880
+in a file called stolman.org
+
+00:13:22.880 --> 00:13:30.120
+articles slash
+
+00:13:30.120 --> 00:13:31.600
+genderneutrality.html
+
+00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:33.760
+of course this is not a gnu project
+
+00:13:33.760 --> 00:13:36.000
+policy
+
+00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:46.839
+it's my own personal ideas on the
+
+00:13:46.839 --> 00:13:53.920
+subject
+
+00:13:53.920 --> 00:13:57.120
+if any of you feels offended
+
+00:13:57.120 --> 00:14:01.040
+by my referring to you with a singular
+
+00:14:01.040 --> 00:14:04.320
+gender neutral pronoun feel free
+
+00:14:04.320 --> 00:14:07.680
+to ex contact me privately
+
+00:14:07.680 --> 00:14:10.720
+and explain to me your reasons
+
+00:14:10.720 --> 00:14:14.000
+I will pay attention to them I'll
+
+00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:16.639
+think about them assuming that they're
+
+00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:18.399
+not something I've already
+
+00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:24.079
+considered and decided to dismiss before
+
+00:14:24.079 --> 00:14:27.760
+but you must not speak to me as if I had
+
+00:14:27.760 --> 00:14:30.240
+no business not obeying you because
+
+00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:30.800
+that's
+
+00:14:30.800 --> 00:14:34.320
+rude and it is not likely to convince me
+
+00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:40.720
+to change my mind
+
+00:14:40.720 --> 00:14:44.240
+I believe it is not actually
+
+00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:48.320
+of stating offense to anyone
+
+00:14:48.320 --> 00:14:50.560
+and the fact that somebody disagrees
+
+00:14:50.560 --> 00:14:52.880
+with me does not mean I'm wrong
+
+00:14:52.880 --> 00:15:00.720
+but I always can be wrong
+
+00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:02.560
+when you wrote that you could add a
+
+00:15:02.560 --> 00:15:05.680
+package to non your new elpa
+
+00:15:05.680 --> 00:15:07.120
+are you implying that you would add
+
+00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:09.199
+packages with or without package
+
+00:15:09.199 --> 00:15:11.120
+maintainers knowledge
+
+00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:15.279
+of course the packages we would
+
+00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:18.000
+we would distribute in this way are free
+
+00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:19.519
+software
+
+00:15:19.519 --> 00:15:21.920
+everyone is entitled to redistribute
+
+00:15:21.920 --> 00:15:22.720
+them
+
+00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:26.560
+and everyone is also entitled to modify
+
+00:15:26.560 --> 00:15:26.959
+them
+
+00:15:26.959 --> 00:15:29.199
+and redistribute them that's part of the
+
+00:15:29.199 --> 00:15:31.680
+meaning of free software
+
+00:15:31.680 --> 00:15:35.040
+I have been unable to understand
+
+00:15:35.040 --> 00:15:38.320
+how there came to be an idea
+
+00:15:38.320 --> 00:15:42.560
+that those who redistribute packages
+
+00:15:42.560 --> 00:15:45.600
+have some idea to be mere
+
+00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:49.360
+some obligation to be near mirrors
+
+00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:54.480
+and not modify things themselves
+
+00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:58.560
+well if a package is
+
+00:15:58.560 --> 00:16:01.440
+being maintained by developers who are
+
+00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:03.440
+cooperating with us
+
+00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:06.240
+we'll normally just leave it to them
+
+00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:07.360
+after all
+
+00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:10.079
+we have lots of other work to do they
+
+00:16:10.079 --> 00:16:10.399
+are
+
+00:16:10.399 --> 00:16:14.000
+clearly experts on the packages they've
+
+00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:15.600
+developed
+
+00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:18.399
+let's leave it to them if they make that
+
+00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:22.800
+sort of arrangement with us but
+
+00:16:22.800 --> 00:16:26.480
+that's up to them we can't insist that
+
+00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:29.120
+anyone make an arrangement with us
+
+00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:30.720
+but since those programs are free
+
+00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:33.279
+software anyone c is
+
+00:16:33.279 --> 00:16:36.639
+free to redistribute them and we will do
+
+00:16:36.639 --> 00:16:41.839
+that
+
+00:16:41.839 --> 00:16:45.519
+have you ever used vi or vim or
+
+00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:52.079
+evil mode no
+
+00:16:52.079 --> 00:16:53.920
+are there any plans to implement
+
+00:16:53.920 --> 00:16:56.800
+security considerations in non-gnu
+
+00:16:56.800 --> 00:17:00.720
+elpa uh we probably
+
+00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:02.959
+should and this will have to be
+
+00:17:02.959 --> 00:17:04.959
+implemented
+
+00:17:04.959 --> 00:17:08.559
+but at the moment
+
+00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:12.000
+developer Emacs maintainers will copy
+
+00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:13.280
+packages
+
+00:17:13.280 --> 00:17:18.160
+into it and so as long as they are
+
+00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:20.160
+verifying the packages and getting the
+
+00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:22.480
+packages from the right place
+
+00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:25.199
+that will take care of the security once
+
+00:17:25.199 --> 00:17:25.919
+there is
+
+00:17:25.919 --> 00:17:30.160
+when with automatic copying in
+
+00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:33.200
+will have to do something to
+
+00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:35.200
+make sure that we're fetching the
+
+00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:40.320
+packages securely
+
+00:17:40.320 --> 00:17:43.360
+and uh some of you might be interested
+
+00:17:43.360 --> 00:17:44.000
+in
+
+00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:46.080
+helping to design and implement this
+
+00:17:46.080 --> 00:17:48.000
+system
+
+00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:52.559
+uh what distro do I use
+
+00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:56.720
+uh well which distro of gnu slash linux
+
+00:17:56.720 --> 00:17:58.000
+do I use
+
+00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:03.520
+I use tree scale
+
+00:18:03.520 --> 00:18:07.200
+I haven't tried most of the free distros
+
+00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:10.080
+and the reason is it's not crucial that
+
+00:18:10.080 --> 00:18:11.120
+I do so
+
+00:18:11.120 --> 00:18:13.520
+we don't need me to rate the various
+
+00:18:13.520 --> 00:18:14.799
+free distros on
+
+00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:17.520
+practical questions because anyone can
+
+00:18:17.520 --> 00:18:20.000
+do that as well as I can
+
+00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:24.400
+and so you can tell people what
+
+00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:27.760
+you think of using them for me what's
+
+00:18:27.760 --> 00:18:29.360
+important to me
+
+00:18:29.360 --> 00:18:32.400
+is to inform people of the difference
+
+00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:34.160
+between the free distros
+
+00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:36.799
+and the non-free distros making sure
+
+00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:38.799
+people are aware that if you
+
+00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:42.000
+install a non-free gnu slash linux
+
+00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:45.600
+distro you'll get a free operating
+
+00:18:45.600 --> 00:18:46.720
+system with
+
+00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:49.919
+non-free stuff in various quantities
+
+00:18:49.919 --> 00:18:54.160
+added thus you will not reach freedom
+
+00:18:54.160 --> 00:18:56.240
+although you you'll make a lot of
+
+00:18:56.240 --> 00:18:57.520
+progress compared
+
+00:18:57.520 --> 00:19:01.039
+with using for instance windows or
+
+00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:03.919
+mac os or whatever vicious thing it
+
+00:19:03.919 --> 00:19:06.160
+might be
+
+00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:08.559
+I'd like to I'd like to people to be
+
+00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:09.760
+aware
+
+00:19:09.760 --> 00:19:12.799
+of this next step towards
+
+00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:14.720
+getting freedom for yourself and your
+
+00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:16.160
+own computing
+
+00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:24.480
+so that you can do that if you want to
+
+00:19:24.480 --> 00:19:29.039
+uh
+
+00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:31.360
+so who gets to make the final decision
+
+00:19:31.360 --> 00:19:32.799
+regarding
+
+00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:36.640
+non-gnu elpa the
+
+00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:39.200
+emax maintainers are going to be in
+
+00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:40.960
+charge of this
+
+00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:44.480
+but because it's not
+
+00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:47.760
+just a technical decision it has with
+
+00:19:47.760 --> 00:19:51.360
+only technical consequences
+
+00:19:51.360 --> 00:19:54.960
+but in general unless there's some
+
+00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:57.760
+severe problem with the package we will
+
+00:19:57.760 --> 00:20:03.600
+want to put it in
+
+00:20:03.600 --> 00:20:06.400
+and I expect most packages won't have a
+
+00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:07.440
+problem
+
+00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:09.919
+and we can just put them in when we get
+
+00:20:09.919 --> 00:20:11.679
+to them
+
+00:20:11.679 --> 00:20:15.919
+won't the elpa link to non-free sites
+
+00:20:15.919 --> 00:20:17.600
+like github
+
+00:20:17.600 --> 00:20:20.799
+uh it's a mistake to talk about a
+
+00:20:20.799 --> 00:20:25.760
+non-free site
+
+00:20:25.760 --> 00:20:29.120
+because a site is not a program
+
+00:20:29.120 --> 00:20:32.159
+a program is either free or non-free and
+
+00:20:32.159 --> 00:20:32.960
+we have
+
+00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:36.480
+clearly stated criteria for that in
+
+00:20:36.480 --> 00:20:39.679
+gnu.org philosophy slash
+
+00:20:39.679 --> 00:20:43.039
+free dash sw.html we have the free
+
+00:20:43.039 --> 00:20:45.360
+software definition
+
+00:20:45.360 --> 00:20:51.919
+but a site well their programs on it
+
+00:20:51.919 --> 00:20:54.000
+but it doesn't make sense to ask whether
+
+00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:55.120
+the site is
+
+00:20:55.120 --> 00:20:58.000
+free or not it's too simplistic a
+
+00:20:58.000 --> 00:20:58.880
+question
+
+00:20:58.880 --> 00:21:02.000
+to have a meaningful answer now one
+
+00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:05.679
+thing you can ask about is does the site
+
+00:21:05.679 --> 00:21:08.799
+send javascript to the user's machine
+
+00:21:08.799 --> 00:21:11.760
+to the user's browser and if so is that
+
+00:21:11.760 --> 00:21:12.960
+javascript
+
+00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:17.120
+non-free well github
+
+00:21:17.120 --> 00:21:19.919
+does send non-free javascript for some
+
+00:21:19.919 --> 00:21:21.200
+operations
+
+00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:24.240
+so we consider it unsatisfactory as a
+
+00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:26.159
+repository
+
+00:21:26.159 --> 00:21:29.600
+but uh that doesn't mean linking to it
+
+00:21:29.600 --> 00:21:33.360
+for is a bad thing to do regardless of
+
+00:21:33.360 --> 00:21:34.720
+what the purpose is
+
+00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:36.640
+for instance if the purpose is to refer
+
+00:21:36.640 --> 00:21:38.240
+to some things
+
+00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:40.799
+that you can access without running the
+
+00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:42.880
+non-free javascript
+
+00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:47.200
+then it's okay for that purpose
+
+00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:50.480
+so if now that you understand the
+
+00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:52.559
+details of this issue
+
+00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:54.880
+you think that there is a problem with
+
+00:21:54.880 --> 00:21:55.919
+the
+
+00:21:55.919 --> 00:22:00.080
+link to camel there's
+
+00:22:00.080 --> 00:22:03.679
+sorry a link in camel dot html
+
+00:22:03.679 --> 00:22:06.799
+well report it to
+
+00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:10.880
+uh bug gnu emax reported as an Emacs bug
+
+00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:14.159
+but do think about the criteria I've
+
+00:22:14.159 --> 00:22:15.840
+just said because maybe it's not a
+
+00:22:15.840 --> 00:22:18.000
+problem
+
+00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:21.840
+is it okay to use the gnu of pharaoh gpl
+
+00:22:21.840 --> 00:22:24.559
+for emax packages
+
+00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:28.880
+yes it is
+
+00:22:28.880 --> 00:22:31.120
+uh which is your favorite programming
+
+00:22:31.120 --> 00:22:32.080
+language
+
+00:22:32.080 --> 00:22:35.200
+if lisp which variant
+
+00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:38.400
+well I don't exactly have a
+
+00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:41.760
+favorite variant but
+
+00:22:41.760 --> 00:22:45.120
+when I designed Emacs lisp I
+
+00:22:45.120 --> 00:22:47.520
+did the best thing I could think of at
+
+00:22:47.520 --> 00:22:48.799
+the time
+
+00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:52.559
+subject to the need to keep it small
+
+00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:55.520
+for the first few years it was important
+
+00:22:55.520 --> 00:22:56.960
+for gdu Emacs
+
+00:22:56.960 --> 00:22:59.840
+to run in a machine which could only
+
+00:22:59.840 --> 00:23:00.799
+give it half
+
+00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:04.480
+a meg of user space
+
+00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:06.559
+so there are a lot of constructs that
+
+00:23:06.559 --> 00:23:09.200
+clearly were desirable to include
+
+00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:12.320
+that I left out because we could
+
+00:23:12.320 --> 00:23:16.880
+make it work without them
+
+00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:18.960
+and then a lot of those have been added
+
+00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:20.640
+since because
+
+00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:23.200
+it's been a long time since we needed to
+
+00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:40.960
+keep Emacs so rigorously small
+
+00:23:40.960 --> 00:23:44.240
+um someone is
+
+00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:47.679
+asking about the
+
+00:23:47.679 --> 00:23:51.360
+fsf's repository project well
+
+00:23:51.360 --> 00:23:54.400
+we agreed that there would be another
+
+00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:55.440
+virtual machine
+
+00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:59.919
+running one of those for the gnu project
+
+00:23:59.919 --> 00:24:15.840
+but that's as far as the discussion went
+
+00:24:15.840 --> 00:24:20.480
+question 17 is extremely insulting
+
+00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:25.600
+I have not engaged in sexual harassment
+
+00:24:25.600 --> 00:24:28.720
+don't expect me to plead guilty to such
+
+00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:28.960
+a
+
+00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:32.640
+nasty claim
+
+00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:35.600
+people have been accusing me of many
+
+00:24:35.600 --> 00:24:36.799
+things
+
+00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:39.919
+some of which are
+
+00:24:39.919 --> 00:24:43.120
+basically mole hills and some of which
+
+00:24:43.120 --> 00:24:46.559
+are false so
+
+00:24:46.559 --> 00:24:50.640
+uh I'm not going to give them
+
+00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:53.840
+anything I have been bullied in a
+
+00:24:53.840 --> 00:24:56.400
+horrible way
+
+00:24:56.400 --> 00:24:59.679
+that was wrong
+
+00:24:59.679 --> 00:25:02.720
+I would like the bullies to apologize to
+
+00:25:02.720 --> 00:25:03.520
+me
+
+00:25:03.520 --> 00:25:06.320
+and when I see that they're not bullying
+
+00:25:06.320 --> 00:25:08.960
+I will forgive them
+
+00:25:08.960 --> 00:25:11.279
+I would like to have conversations with
+
+00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:14.799
+them if any of the mole hills
+
+00:25:14.799 --> 00:25:17.840
+annoyed someone I'm happy to talk
+
+00:25:17.840 --> 00:25:20.880
+with her and thus
+
+00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:31.120
+uh help help resolve things with peace
+
+00:25:31.120 --> 00:25:35.120
+and my opinion on
+
+00:25:35.120 --> 00:25:39.200
+quote diversity within
+
+00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:42.720
+Emacs well Emacs is
+
+00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:45.679
+never going to be diverse it is extended
+
+00:25:45.679 --> 00:25:46.480
+in
+
+00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:49.760
+one language Emacs lisp
+
+00:25:49.760 --> 00:25:53.279
+well I don't know uh we did have an idea
+
+00:25:53.279 --> 00:25:55.840
+of implementing extensibility using
+
+00:25:55.840 --> 00:25:58.400
+scheme and the hope was that guile
+
+00:25:58.400 --> 00:26:01.120
+could be integrated with Emacs that
+
+00:26:01.120 --> 00:26:02.960
+turned out to be difficult it may be
+
+00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:05.279
+impossible but in principle
+
+00:26:05.279 --> 00:26:07.520
+it might be a good thing that would be a
+
+00:26:07.520 --> 00:26:11.039
+small amount of diversity
+
+00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:14.960
+but it's not that important
+
+00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:16.960
+what I think is really important for
+
+00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:18.880
+developing Emacs
+
+00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:22.799
+is to make it do word processing
+
+00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:27.039
+I sometimes use libra office
+
+00:26:27.039 --> 00:26:30.080
+and yeah I can make it do things
+
+00:26:30.080 --> 00:26:32.799
+it has features for wysiwyg which are
+
+00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:34.880
+very nice
+
+00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:38.000
+but it's in other regards
+
+00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:40.400
+it's not Emacs and it doesn't have the
+
+00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:42.400
+abilities of Emacs
+
+00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:45.600
+and it should
+
+00:26:45.600 --> 00:26:48.400
+so I urge people to work on extending
+
+00:26:48.400 --> 00:26:49.039
+Emacs
+
+00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:51.600
+in that direction adding the features
+
+00:26:51.600 --> 00:27:13.600
+that a word processor has to have
+
+00:27:13.600 --> 00:27:16.640
+the last question I can answer is
+
+00:27:16.640 --> 00:27:21.679
+18 but yes it's a very sad thing
+
+00:27:21.679 --> 00:27:24.960
+how many companies
+
+00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:28.399
+insist on using non-free software
+
+00:27:28.399 --> 00:27:33.200
+well I would get a different kind of job
+
+00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:36.799
+that's a decision I made many years ago
+
+00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:40.320
+early in the gnu project
+
+00:27:40.320 --> 00:27:42.799
+I decided I would not first I would not
+
+00:27:42.799 --> 00:27:47.679
+get a job developing non-free software
+
+00:27:47.679 --> 00:27:50.960
+and later on I decided
+
+00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:54.880
+once I could stop using non-free
+
+00:27:54.880 --> 00:27:57.120
+software that is once we had
+
+00:27:57.120 --> 00:28:00.799
+a gnu slash linux system that we could
+
+00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:08.320
+switch over to and uh
+
+00:28:08.320 --> 00:28:11.679
+oh wait I thought I thought magic wand
+
+00:28:11.679 --> 00:28:16.240
+time meant it was time to stop
+
+00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:21.039
+but now I rather ask the question
+
+00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:27.760
+uh
+
+00:28:27.760 --> 00:28:32.480
+so what do you do well if I were you
+
+00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:35.679
+I'd probably not work for any of those
+
+00:28:35.679 --> 00:28:37.440
+companies
+
+00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:39.679
+if I needed to make money I'd get a job
+
+00:28:39.679 --> 00:28:40.799
+but I get some
+
+00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:43.840
+other kind of job
+
+00:28:43.840 --> 00:28:48.080
+that didn't involve using software
+
+00:28:48.080 --> 00:28:51.039
+I would or that let me choose the
+
+00:28:51.039 --> 00:28:53.600
+software I would use
+
+00:28:53.600 --> 00:28:56.880
+but I would live cheaply you know the
+
+00:28:56.880 --> 00:28:58.000
+less you spend
+
+00:28:58.000 --> 00:29:00.640
+the less you need to make and the more
+
+00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:01.120
+time
+
+00:29:01.120 --> 00:29:04.720
+you can take away from your paid work
+
+00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:07.200
+and the more flexibility you have in
+
+00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:08.640
+which paid work
+
+00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:13.039
+you can do being in a position
+
+00:29:13.039 --> 00:29:16.399
+to say no to avoid being
+
+00:29:16.399 --> 00:29:23.679
+desperate to say yes
+
+00:29:23.679 --> 00:29:27.440
+uh strengthens your position
+
+00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:31.200
+and you need that one way you can help
+
+00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:33.279
+do that is by
+
+00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:36.559
+not having children now that is a
+
+00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:38.960
+tangent but it can't be denied that
+
+00:29:38.960 --> 00:29:41.760
+raising children is very expensive I
+
+00:29:41.760 --> 00:29:42.399
+have heard
+
+00:29:42.399 --> 00:29:45.559
+many people say that they are
+
+00:29:45.559 --> 00:29:48.080
+uncomfortable with their jobs
+
+00:29:48.080 --> 00:29:50.880
+but they have to do those jobs to make
+
+00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:52.240
+enough money
+
+00:29:52.240 --> 00:29:55.440
+to support their children
+
+00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:59.120
+well think about that be aware
+
+00:29:59.120 --> 00:30:01.520
+that's likely to happen to you before
+
+00:30:01.520 --> 00:30:06.159
+you make that decision
+
+00:30:06.159 --> 00:30:10.000
+what would I
+
+00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:13.279
+what would I change about free software
+
+00:30:13.279 --> 00:30:16.960
+well since this is
+
+00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:20.880
+magic I would magically find
+
+00:30:20.880 --> 00:30:25.600
+a way of showing everyone why
+
+00:30:25.600 --> 00:30:28.000
+most free software needs to be copy
+
+00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:29.679
+lifted
+
+00:30:29.679 --> 00:30:32.480
+so that our community would not
+
+00:30:32.480 --> 00:30:34.880
+basically
+
+00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:38.640
+submit to abuse by proprietary software
+
+00:30:38.640 --> 00:30:45.919
+developers
+
+00:30:45.919 --> 00:30:49.760
+of course I could go further if I could
+
+00:30:49.760 --> 00:30:53.279
+magically recruit a hundred thousand
+
+00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:55.760
+good programmers to do lots of work
+
+00:30:55.760 --> 00:30:57.919
+improving free software
+
+00:30:57.919 --> 00:31:01.039
+we might well if we could do this 20
+
+00:31:01.039 --> 00:31:03.279
+years ago we might have wiped out
+
+00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:06.559
+non-free systems and then we wouldn't
+
+00:31:06.559 --> 00:31:07.200
+have had
+
+00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:10.320
+horrible things like
+
+00:31:10.320 --> 00:31:14.480
+world wide web drm that
+
+00:31:14.480 --> 00:31:18.000
+no one has the courage to resist
+
+00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:20.480
+if they're desperately trying to get
+
+00:31:20.480 --> 00:31:22.640
+money for anything
+
+00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:26.240
+and if they need approval of companies
+
+00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:29.519
+of the big companies that push for drm
+
+00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:32.960
+uh then they don't dare even resist as
+
+00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:38.240
+much as they can resist
+
+00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:40.880
+and look what happened to the world wide
+
+00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:43.200
+web consortium
+
+00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:47.279
+uh they surrendered blatantly
+
+00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:50.399
+and ignominiously by
+
+00:31:50.399 --> 00:31:55.760
+endorsing the drm system
+
+00:31:55.760 --> 00:31:59.600
+so what can you do I don't have a magic
+
+00:31:59.600 --> 00:32:00.880
+wand
+
+00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:04.720
+I'm a human being with the capabilities
+
+00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:06.559
+I have
+
+00:32:06.559 --> 00:32:09.919
+but the advantage of
+
+00:32:09.919 --> 00:32:12.840
+great firmness in campaigning for free
+
+00:32:12.840 --> 00:32:14.000
+software
+
+00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:18.240
+and this enables me to do things
+
+00:32:18.240 --> 00:32:27.679
+that no one else will do
+
+00:32:27.679 --> 00:32:30.480
+what tools from pre unix days do you
+
+00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:31.519
+miss
+
+00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:34.240
+well I don't I don't think about them
+
+00:32:34.240 --> 00:32:34.880
+with
+
+00:32:34.880 --> 00:32:38.640
+missing them actually but
+
+00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:42.080
+it was sort of nice to have
+
+00:32:42.080 --> 00:32:46.240
+ddt as your login shell
+
+00:32:46.240 --> 00:32:49.600
+so in using modern terminology
+
+00:32:49.600 --> 00:32:52.640
+because that meant at any time you could
+
+00:32:52.640 --> 00:32:55.519
+stop a program lotus debugging symbols
+
+00:32:55.519 --> 00:32:57.519
+and start examining the data in the
+
+00:32:57.519 --> 00:32:58.799
+instructions
+
+00:32:58.799 --> 00:33:01.519
+you could debug it that way and then you
+
+00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:03.039
+could even
+
+00:33:03.039 --> 00:33:06.720
+patch in instructions to continue
+
+00:33:06.720 --> 00:33:09.760
+running that job with the bug fixed
+
+00:33:09.760 --> 00:33:11.600
+in fact you could even do this with the
+
+00:33:11.600 --> 00:33:13.919
+system kernel
+
+00:33:13.919 --> 00:33:16.640
+so that your jobs wouldn't get lost I
+
+00:33:16.640 --> 00:33:17.840
+did that
+
+00:33:17.840 --> 00:33:20.559
+quite a few times of course sometimes I
+
+00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:22.720
+saw what was wrong and I just had to
+
+00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:25.919
+fix a piece of data but sometimes
+
+00:33:25.919 --> 00:33:28.240
+it took me a long time to figure out how
+
+00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:29.679
+to get the system to
+
+00:33:29.679 --> 00:33:32.480
+keep on going but with the work I had
+
+00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:34.240
+done
+
+00:33:34.240 --> 00:33:39.279
+I didn't want to lose that work
+
+00:33:39.279 --> 00:33:41.600
+and so one of the first features I put
+
+00:33:41.600 --> 00:33:43.039
+into gdu Emacs was
+
+00:33:43.039 --> 00:33:47.760
+auto save
+
+00:33:47.760 --> 00:33:50.640
+uh I'm not going to try to figure out
+
+00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:54.320
+which packages I re I actually used
+
+00:33:54.320 --> 00:33:56.480
+uh if I knew I would get hit by a bus
+
+00:33:56.480 --> 00:33:59.039
+tomorrow
+
+00:33:59.039 --> 00:34:02.320
+uh say because of a fortune teller
+
+00:34:02.320 --> 00:34:05.039
+no a fortune teller doesn't give you any
+
+00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:06.240
+knowledge it's just
+
+00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:10.159
+superstitious uh hand waving
+
+00:34:10.159 --> 00:34:13.760
+so assuming that I
+
+00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:16.480
+talked that I got a reading from a
+
+00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:18.879
+fortune teller which is
+
+00:34:18.879 --> 00:34:23.119
+implausible enough to begin with uh
+
+00:34:23.119 --> 00:34:25.040
+that wouldn't give me any knowledge
+
+00:34:25.040 --> 00:34:28.320
+about what was going to happen to me
+
+00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:32.879
+oh by the way fortune tellers generally
+
+00:34:32.879 --> 00:34:34.960
+play back to you facts that they've
+
+00:34:34.960 --> 00:34:36.879
+discovered about you
+
+00:34:36.879 --> 00:34:40.480
+together with cold reading which means
+
+00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:43.440
+they say things calculated to make it
+
+00:34:43.440 --> 00:34:44.639
+appear that they know
+
+00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:49.119
+more than they do or things that are
+
+00:34:49.119 --> 00:34:52.399
+uh that sound wise to anyone
+
+00:34:52.399 --> 00:34:55.679
+so you can say the same thing to
+
+00:34:55.679 --> 00:34:58.800
+uh say 100 people
+
+00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:02.000
+and 80 or 90 of them will say boy that
+
+00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:06.480
+was really accurate
+
+00:35:06.480 --> 00:35:10.400
+but what if for some reason
+
+00:35:10.400 --> 00:35:15.119
+uh about
+
+00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:17.440
+what what advice would I give for
+
+00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:18.560
+stewardship of
+
+00:35:18.560 --> 00:35:22.079
+Emacs well basically
+
+00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:25.359
+focus on
+
+00:35:25.359 --> 00:35:28.480
+keeping the community strong in
+
+00:35:28.480 --> 00:35:29.280
+defending
+
+00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:32.640
+freedom if you have a choice between
+
+00:35:32.640 --> 00:35:34.400
+keeping the community strong in
+
+00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:36.079
+defending freedom
+
+00:35:36.079 --> 00:35:38.800
+and getting more people to participate
+
+00:35:38.800 --> 00:35:40.720
+in the development
+
+00:35:40.720 --> 00:35:43.839
+you've got to choose the freedom it is
+
+00:35:43.839 --> 00:35:44.400
+very
+
+00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:48.400
+easy for free software projects to
+
+00:35:48.400 --> 00:35:52.320
+subordinate freedom to other criteria
+
+00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:55.359
+and once that happens it's
+
+00:35:55.359 --> 00:35:58.079
+easy for those who don't care much about
+
+00:35:58.079 --> 00:35:58.720
+freedom
+
+00:35:58.720 --> 00:36:00.800
+such as sometimes companies that might
+
+00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:02.640
+offer you some money
+
+00:36:02.640 --> 00:36:08.160
+to purchase your soul
+
+00:36:08.160 --> 00:36:10.560
+not that there are really things that
+
+00:36:10.560 --> 00:36:14.240
+exist called souls it's a metaphor but
+
+00:36:14.240 --> 00:36:16.560
+it's an important metaphor for something
+
+00:36:16.560 --> 00:36:18.800
+important
+
+00:36:18.800 --> 00:36:20.880
+people in the community have to be
+
+00:36:20.880 --> 00:36:24.320
+thinking about freedom
+
+00:36:24.320 --> 00:36:27.280
+when they make decisions about what is
+
+00:36:27.280 --> 00:36:31.839
+wise to do
+
+00:36:31.839 --> 00:36:36.480
+the decision to devel to set up non-glpa
+
+00:36:36.480 --> 00:36:39.839
+has a drawback it was a compromise now a
+
+00:36:39.839 --> 00:36:41.520
+lot of people will
+
+00:36:41.520 --> 00:36:44.560
+tell you that I am uncompromising and
+
+00:36:44.560 --> 00:36:46.240
+say that that's a flaw
+
+00:36:46.240 --> 00:36:48.720
+well they're wrong I make little
+
+00:36:48.720 --> 00:36:50.320
+compromises
+
+00:36:50.320 --> 00:36:53.040
+very often and occasionally I make a
+
+00:36:53.040 --> 00:36:55.359
+medium-sized compromise
+
+00:36:55.359 --> 00:36:58.880
+the compromise is in the past we wanted
+
+00:36:58.880 --> 00:36:59.359
+to get
+
+00:36:59.359 --> 00:37:01.599
+copyright assignments for the packages
+
+00:37:01.599 --> 00:37:02.400
+in gnu
+
+00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:06.240
+elpa so that we could move them into
+
+00:37:06.240 --> 00:37:09.119
+core Emacs and of course sometimes we
+
+00:37:09.119 --> 00:37:11.200
+move packages in the other direction
+
+00:37:11.200 --> 00:37:14.480
+that way we are where we distribute a
+
+00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:16.160
+given package
+
+00:37:16.160 --> 00:37:18.160
+is something we can decide purely
+
+00:37:18.160 --> 00:37:20.880
+technically
+
+00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:25.200
+and however make insisting on getting
+
+00:37:25.200 --> 00:37:26.800
+copyright assignments for all the
+
+00:37:26.800 --> 00:37:28.640
+packages in gnu elpa
+
+00:37:28.640 --> 00:37:32.079
+meant that we had to say sorry no
+
+00:37:32.079 --> 00:37:35.119
+we will not install that packages in
+
+00:37:35.119 --> 00:37:38.560
+packaging dewey lpa unless the
+
+00:37:38.560 --> 00:37:41.520
+authors sign copyright assignments and
+
+00:37:41.520 --> 00:37:44.079
+sometimes that's a lot of trouble
+
+00:37:44.079 --> 00:37:47.520
+well non-glpa
+
+00:37:47.520 --> 00:37:50.160
+won't require copyright assignments if
+
+00:37:50.160 --> 00:37:51.520
+there's a free package
+
+00:37:51.520 --> 00:37:54.560
+we can make whatever changes presumably
+
+00:37:54.560 --> 00:37:57.200
+small otherwise we would probably say
+
+00:37:57.200 --> 00:38:00.560
+we don't have time but and then
+
+00:38:00.560 --> 00:38:04.560
+put it in but it does have the drawback
+
+00:38:04.560 --> 00:38:05.599
+that
+
+00:38:05.599 --> 00:38:07.680
+we in general we won't be able to move
+
+00:38:07.680 --> 00:38:09.119
+those packages
+
+00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:12.960
+into core Emacs without
+
+00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:14.960
+getting the legal papers then that we
+
+00:38:14.960 --> 00:38:20.160
+didn't get before
+
+00:38:20.160 --> 00:38:24.320
+how do you see the future of gdu Emacs
+
+00:38:24.320 --> 00:38:27.599
+uh I don't see the future
+
+00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:29.839
+I used to say that my crystal ball is
+
+00:38:29.839 --> 00:38:31.680
+cloudy today
+
+00:38:31.680 --> 00:38:35.680
+unfortunately that has another
+
+00:38:35.680 --> 00:38:39.040
+meaning which is quite ironic uh we
+
+00:38:39.040 --> 00:38:41.200
+certainly don't want
+
+00:38:41.200 --> 00:38:44.800
+our lives to be
+
+00:38:44.800 --> 00:38:48.480
+somewhere in a cloud because
+
+00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:51.119
+that clouds your mind and then people
+
+00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:51.599
+start
+
+00:38:51.599 --> 00:38:54.240
+cheating you and taking advantage of you
+
+00:38:54.240 --> 00:38:56.880
+and it's horrible
+
+00:38:56.880 --> 00:39:00.160
+but uh I don't see the future I just
+
+00:39:00.160 --> 00:39:02.720
+can be sure from the past that there
+
+00:39:02.720 --> 00:39:03.839
+will be
+
+00:39:03.839 --> 00:39:07.599
+challenges where some of the people
+
+00:39:07.599 --> 00:39:10.720
+involved want to make a big compromise
+
+00:39:10.720 --> 00:39:12.960
+that isn't worth it
+
+00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:16.880
+and they some they may even get the
+
+00:39:16.880 --> 00:39:18.079
+impression that it's
+
+00:39:18.079 --> 00:39:21.200
+up to them well actually
+
+00:39:21.200 --> 00:39:24.480
+Emacs has appointed maintainers just as
+
+00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:27.440
+every gdu package does and they are the
+
+00:39:27.440 --> 00:39:29.280
+ones in charge of developing that
+
+00:39:29.280 --> 00:39:30.480
+package
+
+00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:34.400
+and this is for a good reason
+
+00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:38.200
+because the appointed maintainers take
+
+00:39:38.200 --> 00:39:39.760
+responsibility
+
+00:39:39.760 --> 00:39:42.240
+to carry out the gnu project policies
+
+00:39:42.240 --> 00:39:44.079
+and most important of all
+
+00:39:44.079 --> 00:39:46.160
+are the ones that make the whole system
+
+00:39:46.160 --> 00:39:47.520
+work together
+
+00:39:47.520 --> 00:39:52.640
+and the ethical standards
+
+00:39:52.640 --> 00:39:59.920
+to respect freedom and defend freedom
+
+00:39:59.920 --> 00:40:02.240
+is there any plan to move more packages
+
+00:40:02.240 --> 00:40:04.960
+from core Emacs into elpa
+
+00:40:04.960 --> 00:40:08.480
+uh I don't know uh
+
+00:40:08.480 --> 00:40:11.440
+whether there is a plan I suppose if
+
+00:40:11.440 --> 00:40:12.720
+there's a plan
+
+00:40:12.720 --> 00:40:15.680
+we probably would have done it if there
+
+00:40:15.680 --> 00:40:16.960
+had been a plan
+
+00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:19.839
+some have been moved I don't see this as
+
+00:40:19.839 --> 00:40:20.319
+a
+
+00:40:20.319 --> 00:40:22.400
+fundamentally important issue it's a
+
+00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:24.160
+matter of what's convenient for
+
+00:40:24.160 --> 00:40:26.640
+the users and their advantages and
+
+00:40:26.640 --> 00:40:29.599
+disadvantages to each choice
+
+00:40:29.599 --> 00:40:32.800
+what is your opinion on higher education
+
+00:40:32.800 --> 00:40:35.760
+uh requiring non-free software for
+
+00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:36.720
+instance
+
+00:40:36.720 --> 00:40:40.400
+well I wouldn't I wouldn't
+
+00:40:40.400 --> 00:40:43.440
+matriculate in a school which did that
+
+00:40:43.440 --> 00:40:50.960
+unless I saw a way I could refuse
+
+00:40:50.960 --> 00:40:54.960
+now of course I do this
+
+00:40:54.960 --> 00:40:57.760
+because I can get away with it and
+
+00:40:57.760 --> 00:41:00.240
+therefore my doing it is extremely
+
+00:41:00.240 --> 00:41:04.960
+important to show somebody does resist
+
+00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:08.400
+I don't expect most people who support
+
+00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:09.359
+free school
+
+00:41:09.359 --> 00:41:12.319
+who advocate free software to go that
+
+00:41:12.319 --> 00:41:13.599
+far
+
+00:41:13.599 --> 00:41:17.760
+uh I published an article in the spring
+
+00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:21.040
+entitled saying no even once
+
+00:41:21.040 --> 00:41:24.640
+is helping saying no to non-free
+
+00:41:24.640 --> 00:41:25.359
+software
+
+00:41:25.359 --> 00:41:29.040
+even once because
+
+00:41:29.040 --> 00:41:32.240
+the more you do it the more you help but
+
+00:41:32.240 --> 00:41:34.640
+even doing it a little in a way that
+
+00:41:34.640 --> 00:41:36.640
+other people notice
+
+00:41:36.640 --> 00:41:39.920
+is starting to help so
+
+00:41:39.920 --> 00:41:43.440
+uh please don't think that your choices
+
+00:41:43.440 --> 00:41:45.119
+are either
+
+00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:48.480
+be as firm and stubborn as I am
+
+00:41:48.480 --> 00:41:52.240
+or just give up and let yourself drift
+
+00:41:52.240 --> 00:41:56.240
+helplessly as if you had no volition
+
+00:41:56.240 --> 00:41:58.079
+there are a lot of points in between
+
+00:41:58.079 --> 00:42:00.720
+there and you can surely
+
+00:42:00.720 --> 00:42:04.079
+manage to say no some of the time
+
+00:42:04.079 --> 00:42:07.839
+and show people an example of saying no
+
+00:42:07.839 --> 00:42:11.040
+some of the time for instance you could
+
+00:42:11.040 --> 00:42:12.720
+say to people
+
+00:42:12.720 --> 00:42:15.520
+you know I hate the fact that my school
+
+00:42:15.520 --> 00:42:16.000
+makes me
+
+00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:20.400
+use zoom uh so whenever
+
+00:42:20.400 --> 00:42:22.240
+I'm not being forced I'm not going to
+
+00:42:22.240 --> 00:42:25.760
+use it
+
+00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:29.200
+or I hate the fact that the only way I
+
+00:42:29.200 --> 00:42:31.200
+can talk to that group of people
+
+00:42:31.200 --> 00:42:35.200
+is resume but when
+
+00:42:35.200 --> 00:42:38.400
+but for anything else I will feel better
+
+00:42:38.400 --> 00:42:40.079
+about myself if I don't
+
+00:42:40.079 --> 00:42:42.880
+see lots of ways to say no some of the
+
+00:42:42.880 --> 00:42:44.000
+time
+
+00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:47.040
+and yield some of the time
+
+00:42:47.040 --> 00:42:50.960
+and when you try saying no occasionally
+
+00:42:50.960 --> 00:42:53.920
+you may just develop the ability to say
+
+00:42:53.920 --> 00:42:56.400
+no more often
+
+00:42:56.400 --> 00:42:58.800
+now whether you would ever get to be as
+
+00:42:58.800 --> 00:43:00.640
+stubborn as I am
+
+00:43:00.640 --> 00:43:04.480
+I don't know but what I find is that
+
+00:43:04.480 --> 00:43:08.480
+I like the fact that I've never made
+
+00:43:08.480 --> 00:43:12.480
+this kind of compromise
+
+00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:15.839
+I feel I have a reputation to maintain
+
+00:43:15.839 --> 00:43:19.319
+nobody's forcing me but I get
+
+00:43:19.319 --> 00:43:21.119
+satisfaction
+
+00:43:21.119 --> 00:43:24.319
+out of maintaining out of being able to
+
+00:43:24.319 --> 00:43:26.400
+continue to say
+
+00:43:26.400 --> 00:43:30.880
+I will not
+
+00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:34.480
+you are now unmuted and that also
+
+00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:40.480
+can happen at various different levels
+
+00:43:40.480 --> 00:43:43.520
+so you can get that satisfaction
+
+00:43:43.520 --> 00:43:46.640
+of fully maintaining a refusal
+
+00:43:46.640 --> 00:43:54.400
+that applies only to certain areas
+
+00:43:54.400 --> 00:43:57.040
+citizens uh noon already let's maybe
+
+00:43:57.040 --> 00:43:58.880
+take one or two more questions and then
+
+00:43:58.880 --> 00:43:59.599
+break for
+
+00:43:59.599 --> 00:44:03.200
+the lunch break okay thank you
+
+00:44:03.200 --> 00:44:06.000
+how often do you personally use Emacs as
+
+00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:07.440
+the
+
+00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:10.640
+lowest question now uh
+
+00:44:10.640 --> 00:44:16.640
+well I use it most of the day
+
+00:44:16.640 --> 00:44:18.880
+I occasionally do use other things in
+
+00:44:18.880 --> 00:44:20.160
+fact I occasionally edit with
+
+00:44:20.160 --> 00:44:21.599
+libreoffice
+
+00:44:21.599 --> 00:44:24.240
+I occasionally use media players I
+
+00:44:24.240 --> 00:44:25.280
+occasionally
+
+00:44:25.280 --> 00:44:29.040
+uh
+
+00:44:29.040 --> 00:44:32.480
+I occasionally ssh to a machine and type
+
+00:44:32.480 --> 00:44:34.000
+some commands on it
+
+00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:35.440
+which occasionally includes running
+
+00:44:35.440 --> 00:44:42.319
+Emacs on it
+
+00:44:42.319 --> 00:44:45.760
+I read pdf files a lot
+
+00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:47.520
+would be nice if you could get those
+
+00:44:47.520 --> 00:44:49.599
+into Emacs so that I could read them
+
+00:44:49.599 --> 00:44:52.240
+with Emacs commands
+
+00:44:52.240 --> 00:44:55.040
+and I maybe even edit them with the max
+
+00:44:55.040 --> 00:44:56.160
+commands
+
+00:44:56.160 --> 00:44:59.440
+when they can be edited I use
+
+00:44:59.440 --> 00:45:02.960
+uh journal sometimes
+
+00:45:02.960 --> 00:45:10.079
+to write on a pdf file
+
+00:45:10.079 --> 00:45:12.160
+are there any more interesting projects
+
+00:45:12.160 --> 00:45:13.760
+you have in mind over and above
+
+00:45:13.760 --> 00:45:18.400
+non-gnu elpa uh
+
+00:45:18.400 --> 00:45:22.079
+I can't think of one right now well
+
+00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:25.520
+there are things there are things that
+
+00:45:25.520 --> 00:45:27.119
+the gnu project needs
+
+00:45:27.119 --> 00:45:30.560
+doing there are packages that don't have
+
+00:45:30.560 --> 00:45:32.319
+maintainers or could use
+
+00:45:32.319 --> 00:45:35.839
+more maintainers uh
+
+00:45:35.839 --> 00:45:38.880
+talk with maintainers at canoe.org
+
+00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:42.000
+and the assistant candusences will
+
+00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:44.960
+help you find a package where you can do
+
+00:45:44.960 --> 00:45:48.400
+good
+
+00:45:48.400 --> 00:45:50.560
+not for beginners though you got to get
+
+00:45:50.560 --> 00:45:52.079
+you got to learn
+
+00:45:52.079 --> 00:45:55.599
+uh a substantive substantial level of
+
+00:45:55.599 --> 00:45:58.160
+capacity to develop and debug programs
+
+00:45:58.160 --> 00:45:59.440
+before you can
+
+00:45:59.440 --> 00:46:02.800
+be a maintainer uh have I ever looked at
+
+00:46:02.800 --> 00:46:04.480
+maggot
+
+00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:08.400
+uh no I haven't
+
+00:46:08.400 --> 00:46:11.920
+but I believe
+
+00:46:11.920 --> 00:46:14.880
+work is being done to get it put into
+
+00:46:14.880 --> 00:46:16.560
+Emacs
+
+00:46:16.560 --> 00:46:22.240
+and at that point I'll give it a try
+
+00:46:22.240 --> 00:46:25.200
+I do not want to share my configuration
+
+00:46:25.200 --> 00:46:25.760
+files
+
+00:46:25.760 --> 00:46:29.520
+they're personal but
+
+00:46:29.520 --> 00:46:33.599
+how about if we end this now
+
+00:46:33.599 --> 00:46:36.880
+you are now unmuted sounds good to me
+
+00:46:36.880 --> 00:46:38.880
+thank you very much richard for joining
+
+00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:41.520
+in for live questions
+
+00:46:41.520 --> 00:46:43.839
+okay