From b98df6fbe2a5c48013cfca81a95a5af41e202d07 Mon Sep 17 00:00:00 2001 From: Sacha Chua Date: Sun, 13 Dec 2020 00:06:32 -0500 Subject: Actually post subtitles, I think --- ...u-elpa--questions--richard-stallman-autogen.vtt | 2833 ++++++++++++++++++++ 1 file changed, 2833 insertions(+) create mode 100644 2020/subtitles/emacsconf-2020--39-nongnu-elpa--questions--richard-stallman-autogen.vtt (limited to '2020/subtitles/emacsconf-2020--39-nongnu-elpa--questions--richard-stallman-autogen.vtt') diff --git a/2020/subtitles/emacsconf-2020--39-nongnu-elpa--questions--richard-stallman-autogen.vtt b/2020/subtitles/emacsconf-2020--39-nongnu-elpa--questions--richard-stallman-autogen.vtt new file mode 100644 index 00000000..82fc005a --- /dev/null +++ b/2020/subtitles/emacsconf-2020--39-nongnu-elpa--questions--richard-stallman-autogen.vtt @@ -0,0 +1,2833 @@ +WEBVTT + +00:00:00.640 --> 00:00:04.160 +okay so the first question is what is an + +00:00:04.160 --> 00:00:05.680 +example of a car + +00:00:05.680 --> 00:00:08.800 +a package currently in + +00:00:08.800 --> 00:00:12.160 +a non-elpa repo that does not work well + +00:00:12.160 --> 00:00:13.759 +with Emacs + +00:00:13.759 --> 00:00:18.000 +well one of them is s dot el + +00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:19.760 +and this is what made me aware that + +00:00:19.760 --> 00:00:21.920 +there was an issue here that caused + +00:00:21.920 --> 00:00:25.760 +problems well s.e.l + +00:00:25.760 --> 00:00:29.439 +is a beautifully written package + +00:00:29.439 --> 00:00:31.279 +that appears to be very useful for + +00:00:31.279 --> 00:00:32.800 +people + +00:00:32.800 --> 00:00:36.320 +and there's just one thing wrong with it + +00:00:36.320 --> 00:00:39.520 +it gobbled up the name space + +00:00:39.520 --> 00:00:43.680 +of symbols starting with s dash + +00:00:43.680 --> 00:00:47.039 +and I was shocked to discover that + +00:00:47.039 --> 00:00:49.440 +somebody who had not coordinated with + +00:00:49.440 --> 00:00:51.760 +the Emacs developers at all + +00:00:51.760 --> 00:00:55.360 +had implemented a package using such a + +00:00:55.360 --> 00:00:56.800 +short prefix which + +00:00:56.800 --> 00:00:59.760 +isn't the right way to do things oh by + +00:00:59.760 --> 00:01:01.520 +the way the questions have moved off the + +00:01:01.520 --> 00:01:04.000 +screen this is no good I can continue + +00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:05.360 +answering this one + +00:01:05.360 --> 00:01:08.880 +but I'll be stuck when this one is over + +00:01:08.880 --> 00:01:12.159 +anyway so uh + +00:01:12.159 --> 00:01:15.040 +and I was told that there was nothing I + +00:01:15.040 --> 00:01:16.560 +could do about it + +00:01:16.560 --> 00:01:19.920 +that so many users packages were using + +00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:22.960 +swl and thus essentially using that + +00:01:22.960 --> 00:01:24.240 +definition + +00:01:24.240 --> 00:01:28.080 +of the s dash star symbols + +00:01:28.080 --> 00:01:31.360 +that any attempt to use them + +00:01:31.360 --> 00:01:34.720 +publicly or privately for anything else + +00:01:34.720 --> 00:01:38.079 +would lead to horrible problems + +00:01:38.079 --> 00:01:41.680 +and I don't like that + +00:01:41.680 --> 00:01:45.520 +I decided I wanted to do something + +00:01:45.520 --> 00:01:49.040 +a so that that wouldn't happen again + +00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:52.320 +and b to make it unhappen + +00:01:52.320 --> 00:01:55.119 +in that case well the way to make it + +00:01:55.119 --> 00:01:57.840 +unhappen in that case is with a new + +00:01:57.840 --> 00:02:02.240 +symbol renaming feature the idea is + +00:02:02.240 --> 00:02:05.360 +you rename that file to something else + +00:02:05.360 --> 00:02:09.119 +and then you define an s.e.l that + +00:02:09.119 --> 00:02:11.520 +sets up symbol renaming and then loads + +00:02:11.520 --> 00:02:13.040 +the something else + +00:02:13.040 --> 00:02:16.080 +so it actually runs the same code it + +00:02:16.080 --> 00:02:16.400 +just + +00:02:16.400 --> 00:02:20.879 +doesn't globally define the symbols + +00:02:20.879 --> 00:02:23.920 +s dash whatever but they + +00:02:23.920 --> 00:02:26.160 +appear to work for the programs that + +00:02:26.160 --> 00:02:28.319 +explicitly + +00:02:28.319 --> 00:02:32.640 +require that require sdl + +00:02:32.640 --> 00:02:36.000 +or the s package so this gets the same + +00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:38.080 +behavior for all the programs that are + +00:02:38.080 --> 00:02:40.239 +using that library + +00:02:40.239 --> 00:02:43.360 +and uh doesn't interfere + +00:02:43.360 --> 00:02:47.840 +with the global name space at all + +00:02:47.840 --> 00:02:50.319 +however to do that we need to have a + +00:02:50.319 --> 00:02:52.080 +package + +00:02:52.080 --> 00:02:55.360 +s.e.l that isn't the same + +00:02:55.360 --> 00:02:57.760 +totally a short file that's totally + +00:02:57.760 --> 00:02:58.640 +different + +00:02:58.640 --> 00:03:01.440 +plus we've got to have the file that + +00:03:01.440 --> 00:03:02.840 +normally is called + +00:03:02.840 --> 00:03:06.239 +s.e.l available but + +00:03:06.239 --> 00:03:10.319 +uh under another name well + +00:03:10.319 --> 00:03:13.040 +how are we going to do that we can't put + +00:03:13.040 --> 00:03:14.800 +this into + +00:03:14.800 --> 00:03:18.879 +into Emacs in a nice way that + +00:03:18.879 --> 00:03:21.920 +won't make the uh won't make the + +00:03:21.920 --> 00:03:24.560 +maintainer angry + +00:03:24.560 --> 00:03:26.480 +of the mate to the developer of that + +00:03:26.480 --> 00:03:28.159 +package + +00:03:28.159 --> 00:03:32.080 +but we can do it with non-gnu + +00:03:32.080 --> 00:03:34.640 +elpa we can put those two things into + +00:03:34.640 --> 00:03:36.239 +non-gnu elpa + +00:03:36.239 --> 00:03:38.720 +without any difficulty and this shows + +00:03:38.720 --> 00:03:40.720 +one of the advantages + +00:03:40.720 --> 00:03:43.280 +we can put files we can put packages + +00:03:43.280 --> 00:03:45.440 +into non-gdu elpa + +00:03:45.440 --> 00:03:48.400 +and make changes in them now in general + +00:03:48.400 --> 00:03:49.599 +we wouldn't + +00:03:49.599 --> 00:03:51.760 +go to the effort of making big changes + +00:03:51.760 --> 00:03:54.319 +that's just too much to do + +00:03:54.319 --> 00:03:56.400 +unless something's really important but + +00:03:56.400 --> 00:03:58.000 +small changes + +00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:01.120 +that help things fit in are + +00:04:01.120 --> 00:04:04.319 +easy to do and + +00:04:04.319 --> 00:04:07.120 +uh okay oh so basically the recording + +00:04:07.120 --> 00:04:10.319 +didn't get anything until now I just saw + +00:04:10.319 --> 00:04:13.439 +a note pop up this session is now being + +00:04:13.439 --> 00:04:14.319 +recorded + +00:04:14.319 --> 00:04:16.320 +I hope it's been recorded all along it + +00:04:16.320 --> 00:04:18.160 +would be a shame to + +00:04:18.160 --> 00:04:21.280 +spoil oh good okay + +00:04:21.280 --> 00:04:27.120 +okay good so uh that's one of the issues + +00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:30.479 +uh does non-gnu eopa already exist + +00:04:30.479 --> 00:04:33.840 +or is this a sort of quote plan I don't + +00:04:33.840 --> 00:04:35.360 +know why you have to + +00:04:35.360 --> 00:04:37.919 +put scare quotes around the word plan + +00:04:37.919 --> 00:04:40.400 +it's sort of in between + +00:04:40.400 --> 00:04:44.160 +it's the creation of it is started you + +00:04:44.160 --> 00:04:45.440 +will find + +00:04:45.440 --> 00:04:48.160 +that there is an archive that it's + +00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:51.520 +possible to download packages from + +00:04:51.520 --> 00:04:54.880 +and there is a repository to put them in + +00:04:54.880 --> 00:04:57.120 +but that's not the way it's really + +00:04:57.120 --> 00:04:58.560 +supposed to work + +00:04:58.560 --> 00:05:02.800 +uh this is not supposed to be like the + +00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:04.320 +new elpa where there's + +00:05:04.320 --> 00:05:07.280 +one repo for all the packages and thus + +00:05:07.280 --> 00:05:09.039 +anyone who wants to edit any of them + +00:05:09.039 --> 00:05:11.199 +anyone that we want to have edit any of + +00:05:11.199 --> 00:05:11.680 +them + +00:05:11.680 --> 00:05:13.280 +has got to have access to the whole + +00:05:13.280 --> 00:05:15.440 +thing for one thing + +00:05:15.440 --> 00:05:18.560 +some packages will make + +00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:21.840 +an arrangement with the developers + +00:05:21.840 --> 00:05:25.120 +and they'll assure us that they will + +00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:27.039 +do things as things should be done and + +00:05:27.039 --> 00:05:28.400 +then we'll + +00:05:28.400 --> 00:05:32.080 +have their repo copied automatically + +00:05:32.080 --> 00:05:35.919 +or in other cases say + +00:05:35.919 --> 00:05:38.160 +copied manually with a little checking + +00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:40.160 +every so often + +00:05:40.160 --> 00:05:43.199 +uh and then uh in + +00:05:43.199 --> 00:05:46.400 +other cases we'll need to have our own + +00:05:46.400 --> 00:05:49.440 +repo for a particular package + +00:05:49.440 --> 00:05:52.479 +but we shouldn't have a single repo for + +00:05:52.479 --> 00:05:54.400 +all the packages we should have a repo + +00:05:54.400 --> 00:05:55.919 +for each package + +00:05:55.919 --> 00:05:57.840 +so that the people working on that can + +00:05:57.840 --> 00:06:01.120 +get access to modify it + +00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:04.319 +this has to be finished setting up + +00:06:04.319 --> 00:06:06.080 +and we're still working out the + +00:06:06.080 --> 00:06:07.680 +procedures + +00:06:07.680 --> 00:06:11.039 +for instance for making the arrangements + +00:06:11.039 --> 00:06:14.400 +with the developers of a package so that + +00:06:14.400 --> 00:06:15.440 +we can + +00:06:15.440 --> 00:06:18.840 +we hope uh entrust its development to + +00:06:18.840 --> 00:06:20.400 +them and + +00:06:20.400 --> 00:06:24.800 +rely on them directly + +00:06:24.800 --> 00:06:26.560 +and there may be more that needs to be + +00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:29.840 +worked on + +00:06:29.840 --> 00:06:36.639 +oh there's so many questions + +00:06:36.639 --> 00:06:39.280 +well I hope you the third question is + +00:06:39.280 --> 00:06:40.880 +what are the benefits + +00:06:40.880 --> 00:06:43.680 +I hope that people now see the benefits + +00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:46.240 +I've described them + +00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:49.599 +uh next question is it possible to work + +00:06:49.599 --> 00:06:51.440 +with the melba team + +00:06:51.440 --> 00:06:54.720 +to integrate that into Emacs + +00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:59.440 +no because the goal doesn't make sense + +00:06:59.440 --> 00:07:03.759 +melba the way it's done does not belong + +00:07:03.759 --> 00:07:07.199 +inside Emacs in any sense well first of + +00:07:07.199 --> 00:07:08.560 +all it can't literally be + +00:07:08.560 --> 00:07:11.280 +inside Emacs we don't have copyright + +00:07:11.280 --> 00:07:13.280 +assignments for that code + +00:07:13.280 --> 00:07:18.160 +and to get it would be unfeasible + +00:07:18.160 --> 00:07:20.560 +but we're not asking for copyright + +00:07:20.560 --> 00:07:21.520 +assignments for + +00:07:21.520 --> 00:07:25.280 +non-gnu elpa so that's + +00:07:25.280 --> 00:07:27.599 +you might wonder could melpa be merged + +00:07:27.599 --> 00:07:31.440 +with non-venue elpa the problem is + +00:07:31.440 --> 00:07:35.039 +melpa doesn't modify the packages + +00:07:35.039 --> 00:07:38.240 +it's just a place to find releases of + +00:07:38.240 --> 00:07:41.360 +packages wherever they happen to be + +00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:44.800 +and they put packages in with + +00:07:44.800 --> 00:07:48.319 +only a little bit of checking + +00:07:48.319 --> 00:07:51.520 +so no we there are a lot of packages + +00:07:51.520 --> 00:07:51.919 +that are + +00:07:51.919 --> 00:07:55.280 +in melpa that we'd like to get into + +00:07:55.280 --> 00:07:58.479 +non-canoe elpa I don't know the names of + +00:07:58.479 --> 00:08:00.800 +most of them but I expect most of them + +00:08:00.800 --> 00:08:04.160 +would be fine to have but they've got to + +00:08:04.160 --> 00:08:08.560 +be looked at one by one + +00:08:08.560 --> 00:08:12.000 +there are some rules for non-glpa + +00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:14.479 +and the only way to check them is to + +00:08:14.479 --> 00:08:18.000 +check them on one package at a time + +00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:22.160 +and that's going to take effort + +00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:25.039 +now with the people who work on melba + +00:08:25.039 --> 00:08:26.080 +want to get involved + +00:08:26.080 --> 00:08:29.440 +of this that would be great + +00:08:29.440 --> 00:08:32.800 +I haven't tried asking them first we've + +00:08:32.800 --> 00:08:33.919 +got to get this thing + +00:08:33.919 --> 00:08:37.599 +set up I doubt they would want to + +00:08:37.599 --> 00:08:40.479 +but if they said yes that would be + +00:08:40.479 --> 00:08:44.159 +wonderful + +00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:48.399 +uh any thoughts of packages being + +00:08:48.399 --> 00:09:00.959 +added I'm afraid + +00:09:00.959 --> 00:09:05.440 +um + +00:09:05.440 --> 00:09:07.200 +I'm afraid any thoughts of packages + +00:09:07.200 --> 00:09:08.959 +being added as + +00:09:08.959 --> 00:09:11.040 +some url I don't know anything about but + +00:09:11.040 --> 00:09:13.120 +it talks about open source + +00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:16.800 +which means I'm very unlikely to have + +00:09:16.800 --> 00:09:17.680 +much + +00:09:17.680 --> 00:09:20.959 +in common with whatever they say about + +00:09:20.959 --> 00:09:24.080 +either licensing or + +00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:27.760 +what's right and wrong uh + +00:09:27.760 --> 00:09:29.959 +but this seems to be something about + +00:09:29.959 --> 00:09:31.920 +disregarding licenses + +00:09:31.920 --> 00:09:35.680 +altogether well that is basically + +00:09:35.680 --> 00:09:39.360 +asking to lose there are reasons + +00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:43.360 +why we developed gnu licenses to release + +00:09:43.360 --> 00:09:45.600 +software why we have criteria + +00:09:45.600 --> 00:09:48.320 +for which licenses make a program free + +00:09:48.320 --> 00:09:49.519 +software + +00:09:49.519 --> 00:09:52.640 +if the program doesn't carry a license + +00:09:52.640 --> 00:09:55.519 +or if it carries a non-free license that + +00:09:55.519 --> 00:09:56.080 +program + +00:09:56.080 --> 00:09:59.760 +is not free software now you can + +00:09:59.760 --> 00:10:02.839 +maybe get away with disregarding that + +00:10:02.839 --> 00:10:04.800 +fact uh unless + +00:10:04.800 --> 00:10:07.600 +somebody an author or publisher stops + +00:10:07.600 --> 00:10:08.959 +you + +00:10:08.959 --> 00:10:11.360 +but we're not going to take we're not + +00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:12.399 +basically going to + +00:10:12.399 --> 00:10:15.200 +disregard the question of whether the + +00:10:15.200 --> 00:10:16.399 +software we + +00:10:16.399 --> 00:10:19.040 +recommend to people really is free + +00:10:19.040 --> 00:10:21.360 +software or not + +00:10:21.360 --> 00:10:24.560 +that's basically uh + +00:10:24.560 --> 00:10:27.519 +blindfolding yourself to the legal + +00:10:27.519 --> 00:10:29.120 +situation of the software you're + +00:10:29.120 --> 00:10:30.480 +distributing + +00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:33.519 +it's a terrible idea uh if they + +00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:35.920 +disregard our licenses they will hear + +00:10:35.920 --> 00:10:38.640 +from us about it + +00:10:38.640 --> 00:10:40.959 +and if you want to contribute to the + +00:10:40.959 --> 00:10:42.720 +free world + +00:10:42.720 --> 00:10:46.320 +put free licenses on your code + +00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:48.640 +and choose good ones to get this + +00:10:48.640 --> 00:10:50.000 +information + +00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:53.440 +look at gnu.org slash licensing + +00:10:53.440 --> 00:10:57.120 +in particular slash licenses + +00:10:57.120 --> 00:10:59.839 +and one page that input that's important + +00:10:59.839 --> 00:11:01.120 +is license + +00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:05.040 +dash recommendations.html + +00:11:05.040 --> 00:11:07.360 +that's where we advise you on what + +00:11:07.360 --> 00:11:09.279 +license we would recommend you use + +00:11:09.279 --> 00:11:11.360 +depending on the circumstances + +00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:15.600 +there's also license dash list dot html + +00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:20.160 +which describes a lot of licenses and + +00:11:20.160 --> 00:11:22.160 +says which ones are free + +00:11:22.160 --> 00:11:25.040 +which ones are compatible with the new + +00:11:25.040 --> 00:11:26.160 +gpl + +00:11:26.160 --> 00:11:28.640 +it's really important to use only gpl + +00:11:28.640 --> 00:11:31.519 +compatible licenses + +00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:34.320 +so that the various programs can be + +00:11:34.320 --> 00:11:35.519 +combined together + +00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:40.720 +or linked and + +00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:43.120 +you can also get other information about + +00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:44.240 +gnu licenses + +00:11:44.240 --> 00:11:47.040 +and the reasons why they are written the + +00:11:47.040 --> 00:11:55.279 +way they are + +00:11:55.279 --> 00:12:03.200 +oh sorry I don't see the next question + +00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:05.600 +oh why do I insist on using per and + +00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:07.519 +purrs + +00:12:07.519 --> 00:12:11.680 +uh I'm not happy with using + +00:12:11.680 --> 00:12:14.959 +they which is a plural pronoun with a + +00:12:14.959 --> 00:12:17.440 +singular antecedent + +00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:20.480 +it's bad because it causes + +00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:24.800 +confusion that is completely gratuitous + +00:12:24.800 --> 00:12:28.639 +many sentences become a lot of work + +00:12:28.639 --> 00:12:33.200 +to parse and understand if you + +00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:36.480 +add that ambiguity that source of him of + +00:12:36.480 --> 00:12:39.839 +regular ambiguity now + +00:12:39.839 --> 00:12:42.720 +I do not accept the demands of other + +00:12:42.720 --> 00:12:43.680 +people + +00:12:43.680 --> 00:12:47.519 +in regard to changing my grammar + +00:12:47.519 --> 00:12:50.800 +you can try to convince me but + +00:12:50.800 --> 00:12:54.240 +no one is entitled to give me orders + +00:12:54.240 --> 00:12:55.440 +about that + +00:12:55.440 --> 00:12:58.880 +or state their desires and expect + +00:12:58.880 --> 00:13:03.200 +obedience not for me and not from you + +00:13:03.200 --> 00:13:06.560 +or anyone we are all + +00:13:06.560 --> 00:13:09.839 +equally entitled to decide + +00:13:09.839 --> 00:13:13.200 +how we will speak and how we won't speak + +00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:18.000 +now I've spelled out all of these points + +00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:22.880 +in a file called stolman.org + +00:13:22.880 --> 00:13:30.120 +articles slash + +00:13:30.120 --> 00:13:31.600 +genderneutrality.html + +00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:33.760 +of course this is not a gnu project + +00:13:33.760 --> 00:13:36.000 +policy + +00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:46.839 +it's my own personal ideas on the + +00:13:46.839 --> 00:13:53.920 +subject + +00:13:53.920 --> 00:13:57.120 +if any of you feels offended + +00:13:57.120 --> 00:14:01.040 +by my referring to you with a singular + +00:14:01.040 --> 00:14:04.320 +gender neutral pronoun feel free + +00:14:04.320 --> 00:14:07.680 +to ex contact me privately + +00:14:07.680 --> 00:14:10.720 +and explain to me your reasons + +00:14:10.720 --> 00:14:14.000 +I will pay attention to them I'll + +00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:16.639 +think about them assuming that they're + +00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:18.399 +not something I've already + +00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:24.079 +considered and decided to dismiss before + +00:14:24.079 --> 00:14:27.760 +but you must not speak to me as if I had + +00:14:27.760 --> 00:14:30.240 +no business not obeying you because + +00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:30.800 +that's + +00:14:30.800 --> 00:14:34.320 +rude and it is not likely to convince me + +00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:40.720 +to change my mind + +00:14:40.720 --> 00:14:44.240 +I believe it is not actually + +00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:48.320 +of stating offense to anyone + +00:14:48.320 --> 00:14:50.560 +and the fact that somebody disagrees + +00:14:50.560 --> 00:14:52.880 +with me does not mean I'm wrong + +00:14:52.880 --> 00:15:00.720 +but I always can be wrong + +00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:02.560 +when you wrote that you could add a + +00:15:02.560 --> 00:15:05.680 +package to non your new elpa + +00:15:05.680 --> 00:15:07.120 +are you implying that you would add + +00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:09.199 +packages with or without package + +00:15:09.199 --> 00:15:11.120 +maintainers knowledge + +00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:15.279 +of course the packages we would + +00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:18.000 +we would distribute in this way are free + +00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:19.519 +software + +00:15:19.519 --> 00:15:21.920 +everyone is entitled to redistribute + +00:15:21.920 --> 00:15:22.720 +them + +00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:26.560 +and everyone is also entitled to modify + +00:15:26.560 --> 00:15:26.959 +them + +00:15:26.959 --> 00:15:29.199 +and redistribute them that's part of the + +00:15:29.199 --> 00:15:31.680 +meaning of free software + +00:15:31.680 --> 00:15:35.040 +I have been unable to understand + +00:15:35.040 --> 00:15:38.320 +how there came to be an idea + +00:15:38.320 --> 00:15:42.560 +that those who redistribute packages + +00:15:42.560 --> 00:15:45.600 +have some idea to be mere + +00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:49.360 +some obligation to be near mirrors + +00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:54.480 +and not modify things themselves + +00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:58.560 +well if a package is + +00:15:58.560 --> 00:16:01.440 +being maintained by developers who are + +00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:03.440 +cooperating with us + +00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:06.240 +we'll normally just leave it to them + +00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:07.360 +after all + +00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:10.079 +we have lots of other work to do they + +00:16:10.079 --> 00:16:10.399 +are + +00:16:10.399 --> 00:16:14.000 +clearly experts on the packages they've + +00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:15.600 +developed + +00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:18.399 +let's leave it to them if they make that + +00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:22.800 +sort of arrangement with us but + +00:16:22.800 --> 00:16:26.480 +that's up to them we can't insist that + +00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:29.120 +anyone make an arrangement with us + +00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:30.720 +but since those programs are free + +00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:33.279 +software anyone c is + +00:16:33.279 --> 00:16:36.639 +free to redistribute them and we will do + +00:16:36.639 --> 00:16:41.839 +that + +00:16:41.839 --> 00:16:45.519 +have you ever used vi or vim or + +00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:52.079 +evil mode no + +00:16:52.079 --> 00:16:53.920 +are there any plans to implement + +00:16:53.920 --> 00:16:56.800 +security considerations in non-gnu + +00:16:56.800 --> 00:17:00.720 +elpa uh we probably + +00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:02.959 +should and this will have to be + +00:17:02.959 --> 00:17:04.959 +implemented + +00:17:04.959 --> 00:17:08.559 +but at the moment + +00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:12.000 +developer Emacs maintainers will copy + +00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:13.280 +packages + +00:17:13.280 --> 00:17:18.160 +into it and so as long as they are + +00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:20.160 +verifying the packages and getting the + +00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:22.480 +packages from the right place + +00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:25.199 +that will take care of the security once + +00:17:25.199 --> 00:17:25.919 +there is + +00:17:25.919 --> 00:17:30.160 +when with automatic copying in + +00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:33.200 +will have to do something to + +00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:35.200 +make sure that we're fetching the + +00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:40.320 +packages securely + +00:17:40.320 --> 00:17:43.360 +and uh some of you might be interested + +00:17:43.360 --> 00:17:44.000 +in + +00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:46.080 +helping to design and implement this + +00:17:46.080 --> 00:17:48.000 +system + +00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:52.559 +uh what distro do I use + +00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:56.720 +uh well which distro of gnu slash linux + +00:17:56.720 --> 00:17:58.000 +do I use + +00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:03.520 +I use tree scale + +00:18:03.520 --> 00:18:07.200 +I haven't tried most of the free distros + +00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:10.080 +and the reason is it's not crucial that + +00:18:10.080 --> 00:18:11.120 +I do so + +00:18:11.120 --> 00:18:13.520 +we don't need me to rate the various + +00:18:13.520 --> 00:18:14.799 +free distros on + +00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:17.520 +practical questions because anyone can + +00:18:17.520 --> 00:18:20.000 +do that as well as I can + +00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:24.400 +and so you can tell people what + +00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:27.760 +you think of using them for me what's + +00:18:27.760 --> 00:18:29.360 +important to me + +00:18:29.360 --> 00:18:32.400 +is to inform people of the difference + +00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:34.160 +between the free distros + +00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:36.799 +and the non-free distros making sure + +00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:38.799 +people are aware that if you + +00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:42.000 +install a non-free gnu slash linux + +00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:45.600 +distro you'll get a free operating + +00:18:45.600 --> 00:18:46.720 +system with + +00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:49.919 +non-free stuff in various quantities + +00:18:49.919 --> 00:18:54.160 +added thus you will not reach freedom + +00:18:54.160 --> 00:18:56.240 +although you you'll make a lot of + +00:18:56.240 --> 00:18:57.520 +progress compared + +00:18:57.520 --> 00:19:01.039 +with using for instance windows or + +00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:03.919 +mac os or whatever vicious thing it + +00:19:03.919 --> 00:19:06.160 +might be + +00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:08.559 +I'd like to I'd like to people to be + +00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:09.760 +aware + +00:19:09.760 --> 00:19:12.799 +of this next step towards + +00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:14.720 +getting freedom for yourself and your + +00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:16.160 +own computing + +00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:24.480 +so that you can do that if you want to + +00:19:24.480 --> 00:19:29.039 +uh + +00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:31.360 +so who gets to make the final decision + +00:19:31.360 --> 00:19:32.799 +regarding + +00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:36.640 +non-gnu elpa the + +00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:39.200 +emax maintainers are going to be in + +00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:40.960 +charge of this + +00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:44.480 +but because it's not + +00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:47.760 +just a technical decision it has with + +00:19:47.760 --> 00:19:51.360 +only technical consequences + +00:19:51.360 --> 00:19:54.960 +but in general unless there's some + +00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:57.760 +severe problem with the package we will + +00:19:57.760 --> 00:20:03.600 +want to put it in + +00:20:03.600 --> 00:20:06.400 +and I expect most packages won't have a + +00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:07.440 +problem + +00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:09.919 +and we can just put them in when we get + +00:20:09.919 --> 00:20:11.679 +to them + +00:20:11.679 --> 00:20:15.919 +won't the elpa link to non-free sites + +00:20:15.919 --> 00:20:17.600 +like github + +00:20:17.600 --> 00:20:20.799 +uh it's a mistake to talk about a + +00:20:20.799 --> 00:20:25.760 +non-free site + +00:20:25.760 --> 00:20:29.120 +because a site is not a program + +00:20:29.120 --> 00:20:32.159 +a program is either free or non-free and + +00:20:32.159 --> 00:20:32.960 +we have + +00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:36.480 +clearly stated criteria for that in + +00:20:36.480 --> 00:20:39.679 +gnu.org philosophy slash + +00:20:39.679 --> 00:20:43.039 +free dash sw.html we have the free + +00:20:43.039 --> 00:20:45.360 +software definition + +00:20:45.360 --> 00:20:51.919 +but a site well their programs on it + +00:20:51.919 --> 00:20:54.000 +but it doesn't make sense to ask whether + +00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:55.120 +the site is + +00:20:55.120 --> 00:20:58.000 +free or not it's too simplistic a + +00:20:58.000 --> 00:20:58.880 +question + +00:20:58.880 --> 00:21:02.000 +to have a meaningful answer now one + +00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:05.679 +thing you can ask about is does the site + +00:21:05.679 --> 00:21:08.799 +send javascript to the user's machine + +00:21:08.799 --> 00:21:11.760 +to the user's browser and if so is that + +00:21:11.760 --> 00:21:12.960 +javascript + +00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:17.120 +non-free well github + +00:21:17.120 --> 00:21:19.919 +does send non-free javascript for some + +00:21:19.919 --> 00:21:21.200 +operations + +00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:24.240 +so we consider it unsatisfactory as a + +00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:26.159 +repository + +00:21:26.159 --> 00:21:29.600 +but uh that doesn't mean linking to it + +00:21:29.600 --> 00:21:33.360 +for is a bad thing to do regardless of + +00:21:33.360 --> 00:21:34.720 +what the purpose is + +00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:36.640 +for instance if the purpose is to refer + +00:21:36.640 --> 00:21:38.240 +to some things + +00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:40.799 +that you can access without running the + +00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:42.880 +non-free javascript + +00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:47.200 +then it's okay for that purpose + +00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:50.480 +so if now that you understand the + +00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:52.559 +details of this issue + +00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:54.880 +you think that there is a problem with + +00:21:54.880 --> 00:21:55.919 +the + +00:21:55.919 --> 00:22:00.080 +link to camel there's + +00:22:00.080 --> 00:22:03.679 +sorry a link in camel dot html + +00:22:03.679 --> 00:22:06.799 +well report it to + +00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:10.880 +uh bug gnu emax reported as an Emacs bug + +00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:14.159 +but do think about the criteria I've + +00:22:14.159 --> 00:22:15.840 +just said because maybe it's not a + +00:22:15.840 --> 00:22:18.000 +problem + +00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:21.840 +is it okay to use the gnu of pharaoh gpl + +00:22:21.840 --> 00:22:24.559 +for emax packages + +00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:28.880 +yes it is + +00:22:28.880 --> 00:22:31.120 +uh which is your favorite programming + +00:22:31.120 --> 00:22:32.080 +language + +00:22:32.080 --> 00:22:35.200 +if lisp which variant + +00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:38.400 +well I don't exactly have a + +00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:41.760 +favorite variant but + +00:22:41.760 --> 00:22:45.120 +when I designed Emacs lisp I + +00:22:45.120 --> 00:22:47.520 +did the best thing I could think of at + +00:22:47.520 --> 00:22:48.799 +the time + +00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:52.559 +subject to the need to keep it small + +00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:55.520 +for the first few years it was important + +00:22:55.520 --> 00:22:56.960 +for gdu Emacs + +00:22:56.960 --> 00:22:59.840 +to run in a machine which could only + +00:22:59.840 --> 00:23:00.799 +give it half + +00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:04.480 +a meg of user space + +00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:06.559 +so there are a lot of constructs that + +00:23:06.559 --> 00:23:09.200 +clearly were desirable to include + +00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:12.320 +that I left out because we could + +00:23:12.320 --> 00:23:16.880 +make it work without them + +00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:18.960 +and then a lot of those have been added + +00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:20.640 +since because + +00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:23.200 +it's been a long time since we needed to + +00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:40.960 +keep Emacs so rigorously small + +00:23:40.960 --> 00:23:44.240 +um someone is + +00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:47.679 +asking about the + +00:23:47.679 --> 00:23:51.360 +fsf's repository project well + +00:23:51.360 --> 00:23:54.400 +we agreed that there would be another + +00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:55.440 +virtual machine + +00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:59.919 +running one of those for the gnu project + +00:23:59.919 --> 00:24:15.840 +but that's as far as the discussion went + +00:24:15.840 --> 00:24:20.480 +question 17 is extremely insulting + +00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:25.600 +I have not engaged in sexual harassment + +00:24:25.600 --> 00:24:28.720 +don't expect me to plead guilty to such + +00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:28.960 +a + +00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:32.640 +nasty claim + +00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:35.600 +people have been accusing me of many + +00:24:35.600 --> 00:24:36.799 +things + +00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:39.919 +some of which are + +00:24:39.919 --> 00:24:43.120 +basically mole hills and some of which + +00:24:43.120 --> 00:24:46.559 +are false so + +00:24:46.559 --> 00:24:50.640 +uh I'm not going to give them + +00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:53.840 +anything I have been bullied in a + +00:24:53.840 --> 00:24:56.400 +horrible way + +00:24:56.400 --> 00:24:59.679 +that was wrong + +00:24:59.679 --> 00:25:02.720 +I would like the bullies to apologize to + +00:25:02.720 --> 00:25:03.520 +me + +00:25:03.520 --> 00:25:06.320 +and when I see that they're not bullying + +00:25:06.320 --> 00:25:08.960 +I will forgive them + +00:25:08.960 --> 00:25:11.279 +I would like to have conversations with + +00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:14.799 +them if any of the mole hills + +00:25:14.799 --> 00:25:17.840 +annoyed someone I'm happy to talk + +00:25:17.840 --> 00:25:20.880 +with her and thus + +00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:31.120 +uh help help resolve things with peace + +00:25:31.120 --> 00:25:35.120 +and my opinion on + +00:25:35.120 --> 00:25:39.200 +quote diversity within + +00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:42.720 +Emacs well Emacs is + +00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:45.679 +never going to be diverse it is extended + +00:25:45.679 --> 00:25:46.480 +in + +00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:49.760 +one language Emacs lisp + +00:25:49.760 --> 00:25:53.279 +well I don't know uh we did have an idea + +00:25:53.279 --> 00:25:55.840 +of implementing extensibility using + +00:25:55.840 --> 00:25:58.400 +scheme and the hope was that guile + +00:25:58.400 --> 00:26:01.120 +could be integrated with Emacs that + +00:26:01.120 --> 00:26:02.960 +turned out to be difficult it may be + +00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:05.279 +impossible but in principle + +00:26:05.279 --> 00:26:07.520 +it might be a good thing that would be a + +00:26:07.520 --> 00:26:11.039 +small amount of diversity + +00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:14.960 +but it's not that important + +00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:16.960 +what I think is really important for + +00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:18.880 +developing Emacs + +00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:22.799 +is to make it do word processing + +00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:27.039 +I sometimes use libra office + +00:26:27.039 --> 00:26:30.080 +and yeah I can make it do things + +00:26:30.080 --> 00:26:32.799 +it has features for wysiwyg which are + +00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:34.880 +very nice + +00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:38.000 +but it's in other regards + +00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:40.400 +it's not Emacs and it doesn't have the + +00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:42.400 +abilities of Emacs + +00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:45.600 +and it should + +00:26:45.600 --> 00:26:48.400 +so I urge people to work on extending + +00:26:48.400 --> 00:26:49.039 +Emacs + +00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:51.600 +in that direction adding the features + +00:26:51.600 --> 00:27:13.600 +that a word processor has to have + +00:27:13.600 --> 00:27:16.640 +the last question I can answer is + +00:27:16.640 --> 00:27:21.679 +18 but yes it's a very sad thing + +00:27:21.679 --> 00:27:24.960 +how many companies + +00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:28.399 +insist on using non-free software + +00:27:28.399 --> 00:27:33.200 +well I would get a different kind of job + +00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:36.799 +that's a decision I made many years ago + +00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:40.320 +early in the gnu project + +00:27:40.320 --> 00:27:42.799 +I decided I would not first I would not + +00:27:42.799 --> 00:27:47.679 +get a job developing non-free software + +00:27:47.679 --> 00:27:50.960 +and later on I decided + +00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:54.880 +once I could stop using non-free + +00:27:54.880 --> 00:27:57.120 +software that is once we had + +00:27:57.120 --> 00:28:00.799 +a gnu slash linux system that we could + +00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:08.320 +switch over to and uh + +00:28:08.320 --> 00:28:11.679 +oh wait I thought I thought magic wand + +00:28:11.679 --> 00:28:16.240 +time meant it was time to stop + +00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:21.039 +but now I rather ask the question + +00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:27.760 +uh + +00:28:27.760 --> 00:28:32.480 +so what do you do well if I were you + +00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:35.679 +I'd probably not work for any of those + +00:28:35.679 --> 00:28:37.440 +companies + +00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:39.679 +if I needed to make money I'd get a job + +00:28:39.679 --> 00:28:40.799 +but I get some + +00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:43.840 +other kind of job + +00:28:43.840 --> 00:28:48.080 +that didn't involve using software + +00:28:48.080 --> 00:28:51.039 +I would or that let me choose the + +00:28:51.039 --> 00:28:53.600 +software I would use + +00:28:53.600 --> 00:28:56.880 +but I would live cheaply you know the + +00:28:56.880 --> 00:28:58.000 +less you spend + +00:28:58.000 --> 00:29:00.640 +the less you need to make and the more + +00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:01.120 +time + +00:29:01.120 --> 00:29:04.720 +you can take away from your paid work + +00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:07.200 +and the more flexibility you have in + +00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:08.640 +which paid work + +00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:13.039 +you can do being in a position + +00:29:13.039 --> 00:29:16.399 +to say no to avoid being + +00:29:16.399 --> 00:29:23.679 +desperate to say yes + +00:29:23.679 --> 00:29:27.440 +uh strengthens your position + +00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:31.200 +and you need that one way you can help + +00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:33.279 +do that is by + +00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:36.559 +not having children now that is a + +00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:38.960 +tangent but it can't be denied that + +00:29:38.960 --> 00:29:41.760 +raising children is very expensive I + +00:29:41.760 --> 00:29:42.399 +have heard + +00:29:42.399 --> 00:29:45.559 +many people say that they are + +00:29:45.559 --> 00:29:48.080 +uncomfortable with their jobs + +00:29:48.080 --> 00:29:50.880 +but they have to do those jobs to make + +00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:52.240 +enough money + +00:29:52.240 --> 00:29:55.440 +to support their children + +00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:59.120 +well think about that be aware + +00:29:59.120 --> 00:30:01.520 +that's likely to happen to you before + +00:30:01.520 --> 00:30:06.159 +you make that decision + +00:30:06.159 --> 00:30:10.000 +what would I + +00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:13.279 +what would I change about free software + +00:30:13.279 --> 00:30:16.960 +well since this is + +00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:20.880 +magic I would magically find + +00:30:20.880 --> 00:30:25.600 +a way of showing everyone why + +00:30:25.600 --> 00:30:28.000 +most free software needs to be copy + +00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:29.679 +lifted + +00:30:29.679 --> 00:30:32.480 +so that our community would not + +00:30:32.480 --> 00:30:34.880 +basically + +00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:38.640 +submit to abuse by proprietary software + +00:30:38.640 --> 00:30:45.919 +developers + +00:30:45.919 --> 00:30:49.760 +of course I could go further if I could + +00:30:49.760 --> 00:30:53.279 +magically recruit a hundred thousand + +00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:55.760 +good programmers to do lots of work + +00:30:55.760 --> 00:30:57.919 +improving free software + +00:30:57.919 --> 00:31:01.039 +we might well if we could do this 20 + +00:31:01.039 --> 00:31:03.279 +years ago we might have wiped out + +00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:06.559 +non-free systems and then we wouldn't + +00:31:06.559 --> 00:31:07.200 +have had + +00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:10.320 +horrible things like + +00:31:10.320 --> 00:31:14.480 +world wide web drm that + +00:31:14.480 --> 00:31:18.000 +no one has the courage to resist + +00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:20.480 +if they're desperately trying to get + +00:31:20.480 --> 00:31:22.640 +money for anything + +00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:26.240 +and if they need approval of companies + +00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:29.519 +of the big companies that push for drm + +00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:32.960 +uh then they don't dare even resist as + +00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:38.240 +much as they can resist + +00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:40.880 +and look what happened to the world wide + +00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:43.200 +web consortium + +00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:47.279 +uh they surrendered blatantly + +00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:50.399 +and ignominiously by + +00:31:50.399 --> 00:31:55.760 +endorsing the drm system + +00:31:55.760 --> 00:31:59.600 +so what can you do I don't have a magic + +00:31:59.600 --> 00:32:00.880 +wand + +00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:04.720 +I'm a human being with the capabilities + +00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:06.559 +I have + +00:32:06.559 --> 00:32:09.919 +but the advantage of + +00:32:09.919 --> 00:32:12.840 +great firmness in campaigning for free + +00:32:12.840 --> 00:32:14.000 +software + +00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:18.240 +and this enables me to do things + +00:32:18.240 --> 00:32:27.679 +that no one else will do + +00:32:27.679 --> 00:32:30.480 +what tools from pre unix days do you + +00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:31.519 +miss + +00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:34.240 +well I don't I don't think about them + +00:32:34.240 --> 00:32:34.880 +with + +00:32:34.880 --> 00:32:38.640 +missing them actually but + +00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:42.080 +it was sort of nice to have + +00:32:42.080 --> 00:32:46.240 +ddt as your login shell + +00:32:46.240 --> 00:32:49.600 +so in using modern terminology + +00:32:49.600 --> 00:32:52.640 +because that meant at any time you could + +00:32:52.640 --> 00:32:55.519 +stop a program lotus debugging symbols + +00:32:55.519 --> 00:32:57.519 +and start examining the data in the + +00:32:57.519 --> 00:32:58.799 +instructions + +00:32:58.799 --> 00:33:01.519 +you could debug it that way and then you + +00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:03.039 +could even + +00:33:03.039 --> 00:33:06.720 +patch in instructions to continue + +00:33:06.720 --> 00:33:09.760 +running that job with the bug fixed + +00:33:09.760 --> 00:33:11.600 +in fact you could even do this with the + +00:33:11.600 --> 00:33:13.919 +system kernel + +00:33:13.919 --> 00:33:16.640 +so that your jobs wouldn't get lost I + +00:33:16.640 --> 00:33:17.840 +did that + +00:33:17.840 --> 00:33:20.559 +quite a few times of course sometimes I + +00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:22.720 +saw what was wrong and I just had to + +00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:25.919 +fix a piece of data but sometimes + +00:33:25.919 --> 00:33:28.240 +it took me a long time to figure out how + +00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:29.679 +to get the system to + +00:33:29.679 --> 00:33:32.480 +keep on going but with the work I had + +00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:34.240 +done + +00:33:34.240 --> 00:33:39.279 +I didn't want to lose that work + +00:33:39.279 --> 00:33:41.600 +and so one of the first features I put + +00:33:41.600 --> 00:33:43.039 +into gdu Emacs was + +00:33:43.039 --> 00:33:47.760 +auto save + +00:33:47.760 --> 00:33:50.640 +uh I'm not going to try to figure out + +00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:54.320 +which packages I re I actually used + +00:33:54.320 --> 00:33:56.480 +uh if I knew I would get hit by a bus + +00:33:56.480 --> 00:33:59.039 +tomorrow + +00:33:59.039 --> 00:34:02.320 +uh say because of a fortune teller + +00:34:02.320 --> 00:34:05.039 +no a fortune teller doesn't give you any + +00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:06.240 +knowledge it's just + +00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:10.159 +superstitious uh hand waving + +00:34:10.159 --> 00:34:13.760 +so assuming that I + +00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:16.480 +talked that I got a reading from a + +00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:18.879 +fortune teller which is + +00:34:18.879 --> 00:34:23.119 +implausible enough to begin with uh + +00:34:23.119 --> 00:34:25.040 +that wouldn't give me any knowledge + +00:34:25.040 --> 00:34:28.320 +about what was going to happen to me + +00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:32.879 +oh by the way fortune tellers generally + +00:34:32.879 --> 00:34:34.960 +play back to you facts that they've + +00:34:34.960 --> 00:34:36.879 +discovered about you + +00:34:36.879 --> 00:34:40.480 +together with cold reading which means + +00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:43.440 +they say things calculated to make it + +00:34:43.440 --> 00:34:44.639 +appear that they know + +00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:49.119 +more than they do or things that are + +00:34:49.119 --> 00:34:52.399 +uh that sound wise to anyone + +00:34:52.399 --> 00:34:55.679 +so you can say the same thing to + +00:34:55.679 --> 00:34:58.800 +uh say 100 people + +00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:02.000 +and 80 or 90 of them will say boy that + +00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:06.480 +was really accurate + +00:35:06.480 --> 00:35:10.400 +but what if for some reason + +00:35:10.400 --> 00:35:15.119 +uh about + +00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:17.440 +what what advice would I give for + +00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:18.560 +stewardship of + +00:35:18.560 --> 00:35:22.079 +Emacs well basically + +00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:25.359 +focus on + +00:35:25.359 --> 00:35:28.480 +keeping the community strong in + +00:35:28.480 --> 00:35:29.280 +defending + +00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:32.640 +freedom if you have a choice between + +00:35:32.640 --> 00:35:34.400 +keeping the community strong in + +00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:36.079 +defending freedom + +00:35:36.079 --> 00:35:38.800 +and getting more people to participate + +00:35:38.800 --> 00:35:40.720 +in the development + +00:35:40.720 --> 00:35:43.839 +you've got to choose the freedom it is + +00:35:43.839 --> 00:35:44.400 +very + +00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:48.400 +easy for free software projects to + +00:35:48.400 --> 00:35:52.320 +subordinate freedom to other criteria + +00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:55.359 +and once that happens it's + +00:35:55.359 --> 00:35:58.079 +easy for those who don't care much about + +00:35:58.079 --> 00:35:58.720 +freedom + +00:35:58.720 --> 00:36:00.800 +such as sometimes companies that might + +00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:02.640 +offer you some money + +00:36:02.640 --> 00:36:08.160 +to purchase your soul + +00:36:08.160 --> 00:36:10.560 +not that there are really things that + +00:36:10.560 --> 00:36:14.240 +exist called souls it's a metaphor but + +00:36:14.240 --> 00:36:16.560 +it's an important metaphor for something + +00:36:16.560 --> 00:36:18.800 +important + +00:36:18.800 --> 00:36:20.880 +people in the community have to be + +00:36:20.880 --> 00:36:24.320 +thinking about freedom + +00:36:24.320 --> 00:36:27.280 +when they make decisions about what is + +00:36:27.280 --> 00:36:31.839 +wise to do + +00:36:31.839 --> 00:36:36.480 +the decision to devel to set up non-glpa + +00:36:36.480 --> 00:36:39.839 +has a drawback it was a compromise now a + +00:36:39.839 --> 00:36:41.520 +lot of people will + +00:36:41.520 --> 00:36:44.560 +tell you that I am uncompromising and + +00:36:44.560 --> 00:36:46.240 +say that that's a flaw + +00:36:46.240 --> 00:36:48.720 +well they're wrong I make little + +00:36:48.720 --> 00:36:50.320 +compromises + +00:36:50.320 --> 00:36:53.040 +very often and occasionally I make a + +00:36:53.040 --> 00:36:55.359 +medium-sized compromise + +00:36:55.359 --> 00:36:58.880 +the compromise is in the past we wanted + +00:36:58.880 --> 00:36:59.359 +to get + +00:36:59.359 --> 00:37:01.599 +copyright assignments for the packages + +00:37:01.599 --> 00:37:02.400 +in gnu + +00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:06.240 +elpa so that we could move them into + +00:37:06.240 --> 00:37:09.119 +core Emacs and of course sometimes we + +00:37:09.119 --> 00:37:11.200 +move packages in the other direction + +00:37:11.200 --> 00:37:14.480 +that way we are where we distribute a + +00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:16.160 +given package + +00:37:16.160 --> 00:37:18.160 +is something we can decide purely + +00:37:18.160 --> 00:37:20.880 +technically + +00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:25.200 +and however make insisting on getting + +00:37:25.200 --> 00:37:26.800 +copyright assignments for all the + +00:37:26.800 --> 00:37:28.640 +packages in gnu elpa + +00:37:28.640 --> 00:37:32.079 +meant that we had to say sorry no + +00:37:32.079 --> 00:37:35.119 +we will not install that packages in + +00:37:35.119 --> 00:37:38.560 +packaging dewey lpa unless the + +00:37:38.560 --> 00:37:41.520 +authors sign copyright assignments and + +00:37:41.520 --> 00:37:44.079 +sometimes that's a lot of trouble + +00:37:44.079 --> 00:37:47.520 +well non-glpa + +00:37:47.520 --> 00:37:50.160 +won't require copyright assignments if + +00:37:50.160 --> 00:37:51.520 +there's a free package + +00:37:51.520 --> 00:37:54.560 +we can make whatever changes presumably + +00:37:54.560 --> 00:37:57.200 +small otherwise we would probably say + +00:37:57.200 --> 00:38:00.560 +we don't have time but and then + +00:38:00.560 --> 00:38:04.560 +put it in but it does have the drawback + +00:38:04.560 --> 00:38:05.599 +that + +00:38:05.599 --> 00:38:07.680 +we in general we won't be able to move + +00:38:07.680 --> 00:38:09.119 +those packages + +00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:12.960 +into core Emacs without + +00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:14.960 +getting the legal papers then that we + +00:38:14.960 --> 00:38:20.160 +didn't get before + +00:38:20.160 --> 00:38:24.320 +how do you see the future of gdu Emacs + +00:38:24.320 --> 00:38:27.599 +uh I don't see the future + +00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:29.839 +I used to say that my crystal ball is + +00:38:29.839 --> 00:38:31.680 +cloudy today + +00:38:31.680 --> 00:38:35.680 +unfortunately that has another + +00:38:35.680 --> 00:38:39.040 +meaning which is quite ironic uh we + +00:38:39.040 --> 00:38:41.200 +certainly don't want + +00:38:41.200 --> 00:38:44.800 +our lives to be + +00:38:44.800 --> 00:38:48.480 +somewhere in a cloud because + +00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:51.119 +that clouds your mind and then people + +00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:51.599 +start + +00:38:51.599 --> 00:38:54.240 +cheating you and taking advantage of you + +00:38:54.240 --> 00:38:56.880 +and it's horrible + +00:38:56.880 --> 00:39:00.160 +but uh I don't see the future I just + +00:39:00.160 --> 00:39:02.720 +can be sure from the past that there + +00:39:02.720 --> 00:39:03.839 +will be + +00:39:03.839 --> 00:39:07.599 +challenges where some of the people + +00:39:07.599 --> 00:39:10.720 +involved want to make a big compromise + +00:39:10.720 --> 00:39:12.960 +that isn't worth it + +00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:16.880 +and they some they may even get the + +00:39:16.880 --> 00:39:18.079 +impression that it's + +00:39:18.079 --> 00:39:21.200 +up to them well actually + +00:39:21.200 --> 00:39:24.480 +Emacs has appointed maintainers just as + +00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:27.440 +every gdu package does and they are the + +00:39:27.440 --> 00:39:29.280 +ones in charge of developing that + +00:39:29.280 --> 00:39:30.480 +package + +00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:34.400 +and this is for a good reason + +00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:38.200 +because the appointed maintainers take + +00:39:38.200 --> 00:39:39.760 +responsibility + +00:39:39.760 --> 00:39:42.240 +to carry out the gnu project policies + +00:39:42.240 --> 00:39:44.079 +and most important of all + +00:39:44.079 --> 00:39:46.160 +are the ones that make the whole system + +00:39:46.160 --> 00:39:47.520 +work together + +00:39:47.520 --> 00:39:52.640 +and the ethical standards + +00:39:52.640 --> 00:39:59.920 +to respect freedom and defend freedom + +00:39:59.920 --> 00:40:02.240 +is there any plan to move more packages + +00:40:02.240 --> 00:40:04.960 +from core Emacs into elpa + +00:40:04.960 --> 00:40:08.480 +uh I don't know uh + +00:40:08.480 --> 00:40:11.440 +whether there is a plan I suppose if + +00:40:11.440 --> 00:40:12.720 +there's a plan + +00:40:12.720 --> 00:40:15.680 +we probably would have done it if there + +00:40:15.680 --> 00:40:16.960 +had been a plan + +00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:19.839 +some have been moved I don't see this as + +00:40:19.839 --> 00:40:20.319 +a + +00:40:20.319 --> 00:40:22.400 +fundamentally important issue it's a + +00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:24.160 +matter of what's convenient for + +00:40:24.160 --> 00:40:26.640 +the users and their advantages and + +00:40:26.640 --> 00:40:29.599 +disadvantages to each choice + +00:40:29.599 --> 00:40:32.800 +what is your opinion on higher education + +00:40:32.800 --> 00:40:35.760 +uh requiring non-free software for + +00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:36.720 +instance + +00:40:36.720 --> 00:40:40.400 +well I wouldn't I wouldn't + +00:40:40.400 --> 00:40:43.440 +matriculate in a school which did that + +00:40:43.440 --> 00:40:50.960 +unless I saw a way I could refuse + +00:40:50.960 --> 00:40:54.960 +now of course I do this + +00:40:54.960 --> 00:40:57.760 +because I can get away with it and + +00:40:57.760 --> 00:41:00.240 +therefore my doing it is extremely + +00:41:00.240 --> 00:41:04.960 +important to show somebody does resist + +00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:08.400 +I don't expect most people who support + +00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:09.359 +free school + +00:41:09.359 --> 00:41:12.319 +who advocate free software to go that + +00:41:12.319 --> 00:41:13.599 +far + +00:41:13.599 --> 00:41:17.760 +uh I published an article in the spring + +00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:21.040 +entitled saying no even once + +00:41:21.040 --> 00:41:24.640 +is helping saying no to non-free + +00:41:24.640 --> 00:41:25.359 +software + +00:41:25.359 --> 00:41:29.040 +even once because + +00:41:29.040 --> 00:41:32.240 +the more you do it the more you help but + +00:41:32.240 --> 00:41:34.640 +even doing it a little in a way that + +00:41:34.640 --> 00:41:36.640 +other people notice + +00:41:36.640 --> 00:41:39.920 +is starting to help so + +00:41:39.920 --> 00:41:43.440 +uh please don't think that your choices + +00:41:43.440 --> 00:41:45.119 +are either + +00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:48.480 +be as firm and stubborn as I am + +00:41:48.480 --> 00:41:52.240 +or just give up and let yourself drift + +00:41:52.240 --> 00:41:56.240 +helplessly as if you had no volition + +00:41:56.240 --> 00:41:58.079 +there are a lot of points in between + +00:41:58.079 --> 00:42:00.720 +there and you can surely + +00:42:00.720 --> 00:42:04.079 +manage to say no some of the time + +00:42:04.079 --> 00:42:07.839 +and show people an example of saying no + +00:42:07.839 --> 00:42:11.040 +some of the time for instance you could + +00:42:11.040 --> 00:42:12.720 +say to people + +00:42:12.720 --> 00:42:15.520 +you know I hate the fact that my school + +00:42:15.520 --> 00:42:16.000 +makes me + +00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:20.400 +use zoom uh so whenever + +00:42:20.400 --> 00:42:22.240 +I'm not being forced I'm not going to + +00:42:22.240 --> 00:42:25.760 +use it + +00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:29.200 +or I hate the fact that the only way I + +00:42:29.200 --> 00:42:31.200 +can talk to that group of people + +00:42:31.200 --> 00:42:35.200 +is resume but when + +00:42:35.200 --> 00:42:38.400 +but for anything else I will feel better + +00:42:38.400 --> 00:42:40.079 +about myself if I don't + +00:42:40.079 --> 00:42:42.880 +see lots of ways to say no some of the + +00:42:42.880 --> 00:42:44.000 +time + +00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:47.040 +and yield some of the time + +00:42:47.040 --> 00:42:50.960 +and when you try saying no occasionally + +00:42:50.960 --> 00:42:53.920 +you may just develop the ability to say + +00:42:53.920 --> 00:42:56.400 +no more often + +00:42:56.400 --> 00:42:58.800 +now whether you would ever get to be as + +00:42:58.800 --> 00:43:00.640 +stubborn as I am + +00:43:00.640 --> 00:43:04.480 +I don't know but what I find is that + +00:43:04.480 --> 00:43:08.480 +I like the fact that I've never made + +00:43:08.480 --> 00:43:12.480 +this kind of compromise + +00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:15.839 +I feel I have a reputation to maintain + +00:43:15.839 --> 00:43:19.319 +nobody's forcing me but I get + +00:43:19.319 --> 00:43:21.119 +satisfaction + +00:43:21.119 --> 00:43:24.319 +out of maintaining out of being able to + +00:43:24.319 --> 00:43:26.400 +continue to say + +00:43:26.400 --> 00:43:30.880 +I will not + +00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:34.480 +you are now unmuted and that also + +00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:40.480 +can happen at various different levels + +00:43:40.480 --> 00:43:43.520 +so you can get that satisfaction + +00:43:43.520 --> 00:43:46.640 +of fully maintaining a refusal + +00:43:46.640 --> 00:43:54.400 +that applies only to certain areas + +00:43:54.400 --> 00:43:57.040 +citizens uh noon already let's maybe + +00:43:57.040 --> 00:43:58.880 +take one or two more questions and then + +00:43:58.880 --> 00:43:59.599 +break for + +00:43:59.599 --> 00:44:03.200 +the lunch break okay thank you + +00:44:03.200 --> 00:44:06.000 +how often do you personally use Emacs as + +00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:07.440 +the + +00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:10.640 +lowest question now uh + +00:44:10.640 --> 00:44:16.640 +well I use it most of the day + +00:44:16.640 --> 00:44:18.880 +I occasionally do use other things in + +00:44:18.880 --> 00:44:20.160 +fact I occasionally edit with + +00:44:20.160 --> 00:44:21.599 +libreoffice + +00:44:21.599 --> 00:44:24.240 +I occasionally use media players I + +00:44:24.240 --> 00:44:25.280 +occasionally + +00:44:25.280 --> 00:44:29.040 +uh + +00:44:29.040 --> 00:44:32.480 +I occasionally ssh to a machine and type + +00:44:32.480 --> 00:44:34.000 +some commands on it + +00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:35.440 +which occasionally includes running + +00:44:35.440 --> 00:44:42.319 +Emacs on it + +00:44:42.319 --> 00:44:45.760 +I read pdf files a lot + +00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:47.520 +would be nice if you could get those + +00:44:47.520 --> 00:44:49.599 +into Emacs so that I could read them + +00:44:49.599 --> 00:44:52.240 +with Emacs commands + +00:44:52.240 --> 00:44:55.040 +and I maybe even edit them with the max + +00:44:55.040 --> 00:44:56.160 +commands + +00:44:56.160 --> 00:44:59.440 +when they can be edited I use + +00:44:59.440 --> 00:45:02.960 +uh journal sometimes + +00:45:02.960 --> 00:45:10.079 +to write on a pdf file + +00:45:10.079 --> 00:45:12.160 +are there any more interesting projects + +00:45:12.160 --> 00:45:13.760 +you have in mind over and above + +00:45:13.760 --> 00:45:18.400 +non-gnu elpa uh + +00:45:18.400 --> 00:45:22.079 +I can't think of one right now well + +00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:25.520 +there are things there are things that + +00:45:25.520 --> 00:45:27.119 +the gnu project needs + +00:45:27.119 --> 00:45:30.560 +doing there are packages that don't have + +00:45:30.560 --> 00:45:32.319 +maintainers or could use + +00:45:32.319 --> 00:45:35.839 +more maintainers uh + +00:45:35.839 --> 00:45:38.880 +talk with maintainers at canoe.org + +00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:42.000 +and the assistant candusences will + +00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:44.960 +help you find a package where you can do + +00:45:44.960 --> 00:45:48.400 +good + +00:45:48.400 --> 00:45:50.560 +not for beginners though you got to get + +00:45:50.560 --> 00:45:52.079 +you got to learn + +00:45:52.079 --> 00:45:55.599 +uh a substantive substantial level of + +00:45:55.599 --> 00:45:58.160 +capacity to develop and debug programs + +00:45:58.160 --> 00:45:59.440 +before you can + +00:45:59.440 --> 00:46:02.800 +be a maintainer uh have I ever looked at + +00:46:02.800 --> 00:46:04.480 +maggot + +00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:08.400 +uh no I haven't + +00:46:08.400 --> 00:46:11.920 +but I believe + +00:46:11.920 --> 00:46:14.880 +work is being done to get it put into + +00:46:14.880 --> 00:46:16.560 +Emacs + +00:46:16.560 --> 00:46:22.240 +and at that point I'll give it a try + +00:46:22.240 --> 00:46:25.200 +I do not want to share my configuration + +00:46:25.200 --> 00:46:25.760 +files + +00:46:25.760 --> 00:46:29.520 +they're personal but + +00:46:29.520 --> 00:46:33.599 +how about if we end this now + +00:46:33.599 --> 00:46:36.880 +you are now unmuted sounds good to me + +00:46:36.880 --> 00:46:38.880 +thank you very much richard for joining + +00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:41.520 +in for live questions + +00:46:41.520 --> 00:46:43.839 +okay -- cgit v1.2.3