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WEBVTT
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okay so the first question is what is an
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example of a car
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a package currently in
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a non-elpa repo that does not work well
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with Emacs
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well one of them is s dot el
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and this is what made me aware that
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there was an issue here that caused
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problems well s.e.l
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is a beautifully written package
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that appears to be very useful for
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people
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and there's just one thing wrong with it
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it gobbled up the name space
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of symbols starting with s dash
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and I was shocked to discover that
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somebody who had not coordinated with
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the Emacs developers at all
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had implemented a package using such a
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short prefix which
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isn't the right way to do things oh by
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the way the questions have moved off the
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screen this is no good I can continue
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answering this one
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but I'll be stuck when this one is over
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anyway so uh
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and I was told that there was nothing I
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could do about it
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that so many users packages were using
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swl and thus essentially using that
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definition
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of the s dash star symbols
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that any attempt to use them
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publicly or privately for anything else
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would lead to horrible problems
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and I don't like that
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I decided I wanted to do something
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a so that that wouldn't happen again
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and b to make it unhappen
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in that case well the way to make it
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unhappen in that case is with a new
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symbol renaming feature the idea is
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you rename that file to something else
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and then you define an s.e.l that
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sets up symbol renaming and then loads
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the something else
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so it actually runs the same code it
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just
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doesn't globally define the symbols
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s dash whatever but they
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appear to work for the programs that
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explicitly
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require that require sdl
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or the s package so this gets the same
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behavior for all the programs that are
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using that library
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and uh doesn't interfere
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with the global name space at all
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however to do that we need to have a
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package
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s.e.l that isn't the same
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totally a short file that's totally
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different
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plus we've got to have the file that
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normally is called
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s.e.l available but
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uh under another name well
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how are we going to do that we can't put
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this into
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into Emacs in a nice way that
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won't make the uh won't make the
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maintainer angry
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of the mate to the developer of that
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package
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but we can do it with non-gnu
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elpa we can put those two things into
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non-gnu elpa
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without any difficulty and this shows
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one of the advantages
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we can put files we can put packages
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into non-gdu elpa
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and make changes in them now in general
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we wouldn't
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go to the effort of making big changes
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that's just too much to do
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unless something's really important but
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small changes
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that help things fit in are
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easy to do and
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uh okay oh so basically the recording
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didn't get anything until now I just saw
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a note pop up this session is now being
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recorded
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I hope it's been recorded all along it
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would be a shame to
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spoil oh good okay
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okay good so uh that's one of the issues
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uh does non-gnu eopa already exist
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or is this a sort of quote plan I don't
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know why you have to
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put scare quotes around the word plan
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it's sort of in between
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it's the creation of it is started you
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will find
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that there is an archive that it's
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possible to download packages from
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and there is a repository to put them in
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but that's not the way it's really
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supposed to work
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uh this is not supposed to be like the
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new elpa where there's
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one repo for all the packages and thus
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anyone who wants to edit any of them
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anyone that we want to have edit any of
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them
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has got to have access to the whole
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thing for one thing
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some packages will make
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an arrangement with the developers
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and they'll assure us that they will
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do things as things should be done and
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then we'll
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have their repo copied automatically
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or in other cases say
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copied manually with a little checking
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every so often
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uh and then uh in
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other cases we'll need to have our own
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repo for a particular package
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but we shouldn't have a single repo for
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all the packages we should have a repo
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for each package
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so that the people working on that can
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get access to modify it
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this has to be finished setting up
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and we're still working out the
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procedures
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for instance for making the arrangements
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with the developers of a package so that
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we can
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we hope uh entrust its development to
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them and
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rely on them directly
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and there may be more that needs to be
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worked on
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oh there's so many questions
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well I hope you the third question is
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what are the benefits
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I hope that people now see the benefits
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I've described them
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uh next question is it possible to work
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with the melba team
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to integrate that into Emacs
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no because the goal doesn't make sense
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melba the way it's done does not belong
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inside Emacs in any sense well first of
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all it can't literally be
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inside Emacs we don't have copyright
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assignments for that code
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and to get it would be unfeasible
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but we're not asking for copyright
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assignments for
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non-gnu elpa so that's
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you might wonder could melpa be merged
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with non-venue elpa the problem is
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melpa doesn't modify the packages
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it's just a place to find releases of
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packages wherever they happen to be
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and they put packages in with
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only a little bit of checking
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so no we there are a lot of packages
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that are
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in melpa that we'd like to get into
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non-canoe elpa I don't know the names of
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most of them but I expect most of them
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would be fine to have but they've got to
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be looked at one by one
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there are some rules for non-glpa
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and the only way to check them is to
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check them on one package at a time
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and that's going to take effort
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now with the people who work on melba
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want to get involved
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of this that would be great
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I haven't tried asking them first we've
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got to get this thing
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set up I doubt they would want to
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but if they said yes that would be
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wonderful
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uh any thoughts of packages being
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added I'm afraid
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um
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I'm afraid any thoughts of packages
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being added as
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some url I don't know anything about but
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it talks about open source
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which means I'm very unlikely to have
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much
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in common with whatever they say about
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either licensing or
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what's right and wrong uh
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but this seems to be something about
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disregarding licenses
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altogether well that is basically
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asking to lose there are reasons
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why we developed gnu licenses to release
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software why we have criteria
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for which licenses make a program free
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software
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if the program doesn't carry a license
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or if it carries a non-free license that
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program
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is not free software now you can
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maybe get away with disregarding that
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fact uh unless
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somebody an author or publisher stops
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you
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but we're not going to take we're not
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basically going to
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disregard the question of whether the
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software we
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recommend to people really is free
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software or not
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that's basically uh
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blindfolding yourself to the legal
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situation of the software you're
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distributing
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it's a terrible idea uh if they
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disregard our licenses they will hear
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from us about it
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and if you want to contribute to the
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free world
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put free licenses on your code
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and choose good ones to get this
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information
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look at gnu.org slash licensing
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in particular slash licenses
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and one page that input that's important
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is license
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dash recommendations.html
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that's where we advise you on what
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license we would recommend you use
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depending on the circumstances
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there's also license dash list dot html
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which describes a lot of licenses and
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says which ones are free
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which ones are compatible with the new
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gpl
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it's really important to use only gpl
00:11:28.640 --> 00:11:31.519
compatible licenses
00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:34.320
so that the various programs can be
00:11:34.320 --> 00:11:35.519
combined together
00:11:35.519 --> 00:11:40.720
or linked and
00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:43.120
you can also get other information about
00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:44.240
gnu licenses
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and the reasons why they are written the
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way they are
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oh sorry I don't see the next question
00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:05.600
oh why do I insist on using per and
00:12:05.600 --> 00:12:07.519
purrs
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uh I'm not happy with using
00:12:11.680 --> 00:12:14.959
they which is a plural pronoun with a
00:12:14.959 --> 00:12:17.440
singular antecedent
00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:20.480
it's bad because it causes
00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:24.800
confusion that is completely gratuitous
00:12:24.800 --> 00:12:28.639
many sentences become a lot of work
00:12:28.639 --> 00:12:33.200
to parse and understand if you
00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:36.480
add that ambiguity that source of him of
00:12:36.480 --> 00:12:39.839
regular ambiguity now
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I do not accept the demands of other
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people
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in regard to changing my grammar
00:12:47.519 --> 00:12:50.800
you can try to convince me but
00:12:50.800 --> 00:12:54.240
no one is entitled to give me orders
00:12:54.240 --> 00:12:55.440
about that
00:12:55.440 --> 00:12:58.880
or state their desires and expect
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obedience not for me and not from you
00:13:03.200 --> 00:13:06.560
or anyone we are all
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equally entitled to decide
00:13:09.839 --> 00:13:13.200
how we will speak and how we won't speak
00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:18.000
now I've spelled out all of these points
00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:22.880
in a file called stolman.org
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articles slash
00:13:30.120 --> 00:13:31.600
genderneutrality.html
00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:33.760
of course this is not a gnu project
00:13:33.760 --> 00:13:36.000
policy
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it's my own personal ideas on the
00:13:46.839 --> 00:13:53.920
subject
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if any of you feels offended
00:13:57.120 --> 00:14:01.040
by my referring to you with a singular
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gender neutral pronoun feel free
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to ex contact me privately
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and explain to me your reasons
00:14:10.720 --> 00:14:14.000
I will pay attention to them I'll
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think about them assuming that they're
00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:18.399
not something I've already
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considered and decided to dismiss before
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but you must not speak to me as if I had
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no business not obeying you because
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that's
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rude and it is not likely to convince me
00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:40.720
to change my mind
00:14:40.720 --> 00:14:44.240
I believe it is not actually
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of stating offense to anyone
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and the fact that somebody disagrees
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with me does not mean I'm wrong
00:14:52.880 --> 00:15:00.720
but I always can be wrong
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when you wrote that you could add a
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package to non your new elpa
00:15:05.680 --> 00:15:07.120
are you implying that you would add
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packages with or without package
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maintainers knowledge
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of course the packages we would
00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:18.000
we would distribute in this way are free
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software
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everyone is entitled to redistribute
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them
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and everyone is also entitled to modify
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them
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and redistribute them that's part of the
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meaning of free software
00:15:31.680 --> 00:15:35.040
I have been unable to understand
00:15:35.040 --> 00:15:38.320
how there came to be an idea
00:15:38.320 --> 00:15:42.560
that those who redistribute packages
00:15:42.560 --> 00:15:45.600
have some idea to be mere
00:15:45.600 --> 00:15:49.360
some obligation to be near mirrors
00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:54.480
and not modify things themselves
00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:58.560
well if a package is
00:15:58.560 --> 00:16:01.440
being maintained by developers who are
00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:03.440
cooperating with us
00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:06.240
we'll normally just leave it to them
00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:07.360
after all
00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:10.079
we have lots of other work to do they
00:16:10.079 --> 00:16:10.399
are
00:16:10.399 --> 00:16:14.000
clearly experts on the packages they've
00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:15.600
developed
00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:18.399
let's leave it to them if they make that
00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:22.800
sort of arrangement with us but
00:16:22.800 --> 00:16:26.480
that's up to them we can't insist that
00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:29.120
anyone make an arrangement with us
00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:30.720
but since those programs are free
00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:33.279
software anyone c is
00:16:33.279 --> 00:16:36.639
free to redistribute them and we will do
00:16:36.639 --> 00:16:41.839
that
00:16:41.839 --> 00:16:45.519
have you ever used vi or vim or
00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:52.079
evil mode no
00:16:52.079 --> 00:16:53.920
are there any plans to implement
00:16:53.920 --> 00:16:56.800
security considerations in non-gnu
00:16:56.800 --> 00:17:00.720
elpa uh we probably
00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:02.959
should and this will have to be
00:17:02.959 --> 00:17:04.959
implemented
00:17:04.959 --> 00:17:08.559
but at the moment
00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:12.000
developer Emacs maintainers will copy
00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:13.280
packages
00:17:13.280 --> 00:17:18.160
into it and so as long as they are
00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:20.160
verifying the packages and getting the
00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:22.480
packages from the right place
00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:25.199
that will take care of the security once
00:17:25.199 --> 00:17:25.919
there is
00:17:25.919 --> 00:17:30.160
when with automatic copying in
00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:33.200
will have to do something to
00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:35.200
make sure that we're fetching the
00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:40.320
packages securely
00:17:40.320 --> 00:17:43.360
and uh some of you might be interested
00:17:43.360 --> 00:17:44.000
in
00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:46.080
helping to design and implement this
00:17:46.080 --> 00:17:48.000
system
00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:52.559
uh what distro do I use
00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:56.720
uh well which distro of gnu slash linux
00:17:56.720 --> 00:17:58.000
do I use
00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:03.520
I use tree scale
00:18:03.520 --> 00:18:07.200
I haven't tried most of the free distros
00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:10.080
and the reason is it's not crucial that
00:18:10.080 --> 00:18:11.120
I do so
00:18:11.120 --> 00:18:13.520
we don't need me to rate the various
00:18:13.520 --> 00:18:14.799
free distros on
00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:17.520
practical questions because anyone can
00:18:17.520 --> 00:18:20.000
do that as well as I can
00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:24.400
and so you can tell people what
00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:27.760
you think of using them for me what's
00:18:27.760 --> 00:18:29.360
important to me
00:18:29.360 --> 00:18:32.400
is to inform people of the difference
00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:34.160
between the free distros
00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:36.799
and the non-free distros making sure
00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:38.799
people are aware that if you
00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:42.000
install a non-free gnu slash linux
00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:45.600
distro you'll get a free operating
00:18:45.600 --> 00:18:46.720
system with
00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:49.919
non-free stuff in various quantities
00:18:49.919 --> 00:18:54.160
added thus you will not reach freedom
00:18:54.160 --> 00:18:56.240
although you you'll make a lot of
00:18:56.240 --> 00:18:57.520
progress compared
00:18:57.520 --> 00:19:01.039
with using for instance windows or
00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:03.919
mac os or whatever vicious thing it
00:19:03.919 --> 00:19:06.160
might be
00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:08.559
I'd like to I'd like to people to be
00:19:08.559 --> 00:19:09.760
aware
00:19:09.760 --> 00:19:12.799
of this next step towards
00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:14.720
getting freedom for yourself and your
00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:16.160
own computing
00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:24.480
so that you can do that if you want to
00:19:24.480 --> 00:19:29.039
uh
00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:31.360
so who gets to make the final decision
00:19:31.360 --> 00:19:32.799
regarding
00:19:32.799 --> 00:19:36.640
non-gnu elpa the
00:19:36.640 --> 00:19:39.200
emax maintainers are going to be in
00:19:39.200 --> 00:19:40.960
charge of this
00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:44.480
but because it's not
00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:47.760
just a technical decision it has with
00:19:47.760 --> 00:19:51.360
only technical consequences
00:19:51.360 --> 00:19:54.960
but in general unless there's some
00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:57.760
severe problem with the package we will
00:19:57.760 --> 00:20:03.600
want to put it in
00:20:03.600 --> 00:20:06.400
and I expect most packages won't have a
00:20:06.400 --> 00:20:07.440
problem
00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:09.919
and we can just put them in when we get
00:20:09.919 --> 00:20:11.679
to them
00:20:11.679 --> 00:20:15.919
won't the elpa link to non-free sites
00:20:15.919 --> 00:20:17.600
like github
00:20:17.600 --> 00:20:20.799
uh it's a mistake to talk about a
00:20:20.799 --> 00:20:25.760
non-free site
00:20:25.760 --> 00:20:29.120
because a site is not a program
00:20:29.120 --> 00:20:32.159
a program is either free or non-free and
00:20:32.159 --> 00:20:32.960
we have
00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:36.480
clearly stated criteria for that in
00:20:36.480 --> 00:20:39.679
gnu.org philosophy slash
00:20:39.679 --> 00:20:43.039
free dash sw.html we have the free
00:20:43.039 --> 00:20:45.360
software definition
00:20:45.360 --> 00:20:51.919
but a site well their programs on it
00:20:51.919 --> 00:20:54.000
but it doesn't make sense to ask whether
00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:55.120
the site is
00:20:55.120 --> 00:20:58.000
free or not it's too simplistic a
00:20:58.000 --> 00:20:58.880
question
00:20:58.880 --> 00:21:02.000
to have a meaningful answer now one
00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:05.679
thing you can ask about is does the site
00:21:05.679 --> 00:21:08.799
send javascript to the user's machine
00:21:08.799 --> 00:21:11.760
to the user's browser and if so is that
00:21:11.760 --> 00:21:12.960
javascript
00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:17.120
non-free well github
00:21:17.120 --> 00:21:19.919
does send non-free javascript for some
00:21:19.919 --> 00:21:21.200
operations
00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:24.240
so we consider it unsatisfactory as a
00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:26.159
repository
00:21:26.159 --> 00:21:29.600
but uh that doesn't mean linking to it
00:21:29.600 --> 00:21:33.360
for is a bad thing to do regardless of
00:21:33.360 --> 00:21:34.720
what the purpose is
00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:36.640
for instance if the purpose is to refer
00:21:36.640 --> 00:21:38.240
to some things
00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:40.799
that you can access without running the
00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:42.880
non-free javascript
00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:47.200
then it's okay for that purpose
00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:50.480
so if now that you understand the
00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:52.559
details of this issue
00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:54.880
you think that there is a problem with
00:21:54.880 --> 00:21:55.919
the
00:21:55.919 --> 00:22:00.080
link to camel there's
00:22:00.080 --> 00:22:03.679
sorry a link in camel dot html
00:22:03.679 --> 00:22:06.799
well report it to
00:22:06.799 --> 00:22:10.880
uh bug gnu emax reported as an Emacs bug
00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:14.159
but do think about the criteria I've
00:22:14.159 --> 00:22:15.840
just said because maybe it's not a
00:22:15.840 --> 00:22:18.000
problem
00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:21.840
is it okay to use the gnu of pharaoh gpl
00:22:21.840 --> 00:22:24.559
for emax packages
00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:28.880
yes it is
00:22:28.880 --> 00:22:31.120
uh which is your favorite programming
00:22:31.120 --> 00:22:32.080
language
00:22:32.080 --> 00:22:35.200
if lisp which variant
00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:38.400
well I don't exactly have a
00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:41.760
favorite variant but
00:22:41.760 --> 00:22:45.120
when I designed Emacs lisp I
00:22:45.120 --> 00:22:47.520
did the best thing I could think of at
00:22:47.520 --> 00:22:48.799
the time
00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:52.559
subject to the need to keep it small
00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:55.520
for the first few years it was important
00:22:55.520 --> 00:22:56.960
for gdu Emacs
00:22:56.960 --> 00:22:59.840
to run in a machine which could only
00:22:59.840 --> 00:23:00.799
give it half
00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:04.480
a meg of user space
00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:06.559
so there are a lot of constructs that
00:23:06.559 --> 00:23:09.200
clearly were desirable to include
00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:12.320
that I left out because we could
00:23:12.320 --> 00:23:16.880
make it work without them
00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:18.960
and then a lot of those have been added
00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:20.640
since because
00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:23.200
it's been a long time since we needed to
00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:40.960
keep Emacs so rigorously small
00:23:40.960 --> 00:23:44.240
um someone is
00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:47.679
asking about the
00:23:47.679 --> 00:23:51.360
fsf's repository project well
00:23:51.360 --> 00:23:54.400
we agreed that there would be another
00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:55.440
virtual machine
00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:59.919
running one of those for the gnu project
00:23:59.919 --> 00:24:15.840
but that's as far as the discussion went
00:24:15.840 --> 00:24:20.480
question 17 is extremely insulting
00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:25.600
I have not engaged in sexual harassment
00:24:25.600 --> 00:24:28.720
don't expect me to plead guilty to such
00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:28.960
a
00:24:28.960 --> 00:24:32.640
nasty claim
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:35.600
people have been accusing me of many
00:24:35.600 --> 00:24:36.799
things
00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:39.919
some of which are
00:24:39.919 --> 00:24:43.120
basically mole hills and some of which
00:24:43.120 --> 00:24:46.559
are false so
00:24:46.559 --> 00:24:50.640
uh I'm not going to give them
00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:53.840
anything I have been bullied in a
00:24:53.840 --> 00:24:56.400
horrible way
00:24:56.400 --> 00:24:59.679
that was wrong
00:24:59.679 --> 00:25:02.720
I would like the bullies to apologize to
00:25:02.720 --> 00:25:03.520
me
00:25:03.520 --> 00:25:06.320
and when I see that they're not bullying
00:25:06.320 --> 00:25:08.960
I will forgive them
00:25:08.960 --> 00:25:11.279
I would like to have conversations with
00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:14.799
them if any of the mole hills
00:25:14.799 --> 00:25:17.840
annoyed someone I'm happy to talk
00:25:17.840 --> 00:25:20.880
with her and thus
00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:31.120
uh help help resolve things with peace
00:25:31.120 --> 00:25:35.120
and my opinion on
00:25:35.120 --> 00:25:39.200
quote diversity within
00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:42.720
Emacs well Emacs is
00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:45.679
never going to be diverse it is extended
00:25:45.679 --> 00:25:46.480
in
00:25:46.480 --> 00:25:49.760
one language Emacs lisp
00:25:49.760 --> 00:25:53.279
well I don't know uh we did have an idea
00:25:53.279 --> 00:25:55.840
of implementing extensibility using
00:25:55.840 --> 00:25:58.400
scheme and the hope was that guile
00:25:58.400 --> 00:26:01.120
could be integrated with Emacs that
00:26:01.120 --> 00:26:02.960
turned out to be difficult it may be
00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:05.279
impossible but in principle
00:26:05.279 --> 00:26:07.520
it might be a good thing that would be a
00:26:07.520 --> 00:26:11.039
small amount of diversity
00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:14.960
but it's not that important
00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:16.960
what I think is really important for
00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:18.880
developing Emacs
00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:22.799
is to make it do word processing
00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:27.039
I sometimes use libra office
00:26:27.039 --> 00:26:30.080
and yeah I can make it do things
00:26:30.080 --> 00:26:32.799
it has features for wysiwyg which are
00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:34.880
very nice
00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:38.000
but it's in other regards
00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:40.400
it's not Emacs and it doesn't have the
00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:42.400
abilities of Emacs
00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:45.600
and it should
00:26:45.600 --> 00:26:48.400
so I urge people to work on extending
00:26:48.400 --> 00:26:49.039
Emacs
00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:51.600
in that direction adding the features
00:26:51.600 --> 00:27:13.600
that a word processor has to have
00:27:13.600 --> 00:27:16.640
the last question I can answer is
00:27:16.640 --> 00:27:21.679
18 but yes it's a very sad thing
00:27:21.679 --> 00:27:24.960
how many companies
00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:28.399
insist on using non-free software
00:27:28.399 --> 00:27:33.200
well I would get a different kind of job
00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:36.799
that's a decision I made many years ago
00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:40.320
early in the gnu project
00:27:40.320 --> 00:27:42.799
I decided I would not first I would not
00:27:42.799 --> 00:27:47.679
get a job developing non-free software
00:27:47.679 --> 00:27:50.960
and later on I decided
00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:54.880
once I could stop using non-free
00:27:54.880 --> 00:27:57.120
software that is once we had
00:27:57.120 --> 00:28:00.799
a gnu slash linux system that we could
00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:08.320
switch over to and uh
00:28:08.320 --> 00:28:11.679
oh wait I thought I thought magic wand
00:28:11.679 --> 00:28:16.240
time meant it was time to stop
00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:21.039
but now I rather ask the question
00:28:21.039 --> 00:28:27.760
uh
00:28:27.760 --> 00:28:32.480
so what do you do well if I were you
00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:35.679
I'd probably not work for any of those
00:28:35.679 --> 00:28:37.440
companies
00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:39.679
if I needed to make money I'd get a job
00:28:39.679 --> 00:28:40.799
but I get some
00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:43.840
other kind of job
00:28:43.840 --> 00:28:48.080
that didn't involve using software
00:28:48.080 --> 00:28:51.039
I would or that let me choose the
00:28:51.039 --> 00:28:53.600
software I would use
00:28:53.600 --> 00:28:56.880
but I would live cheaply you know the
00:28:56.880 --> 00:28:58.000
less you spend
00:28:58.000 --> 00:29:00.640
the less you need to make and the more
00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:01.120
time
00:29:01.120 --> 00:29:04.720
you can take away from your paid work
00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:07.200
and the more flexibility you have in
00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:08.640
which paid work
00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:13.039
you can do being in a position
00:29:13.039 --> 00:29:16.399
to say no to avoid being
00:29:16.399 --> 00:29:23.679
desperate to say yes
00:29:23.679 --> 00:29:27.440
uh strengthens your position
00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:31.200
and you need that one way you can help
00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:33.279
do that is by
00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:36.559
not having children now that is a
00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:38.960
tangent but it can't be denied that
00:29:38.960 --> 00:29:41.760
raising children is very expensive I
00:29:41.760 --> 00:29:42.399
have heard
00:29:42.399 --> 00:29:45.559
many people say that they are
00:29:45.559 --> 00:29:48.080
uncomfortable with their jobs
00:29:48.080 --> 00:29:50.880
but they have to do those jobs to make
00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:52.240
enough money
00:29:52.240 --> 00:29:55.440
to support their children
00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:59.120
well think about that be aware
00:29:59.120 --> 00:30:01.520
that's likely to happen to you before
00:30:01.520 --> 00:30:06.159
you make that decision
00:30:06.159 --> 00:30:10.000
what would I
00:30:10.000 --> 00:30:13.279
what would I change about free software
00:30:13.279 --> 00:30:16.960
well since this is
00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:20.880
magic I would magically find
00:30:20.880 --> 00:30:25.600
a way of showing everyone why
00:30:25.600 --> 00:30:28.000
most free software needs to be copy
00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:29.679
lifted
00:30:29.679 --> 00:30:32.480
so that our community would not
00:30:32.480 --> 00:30:34.880
basically
00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:38.640
submit to abuse by proprietary software
00:30:38.640 --> 00:30:45.919
developers
00:30:45.919 --> 00:30:49.760
of course I could go further if I could
00:30:49.760 --> 00:30:53.279
magically recruit a hundred thousand
00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:55.760
good programmers to do lots of work
00:30:55.760 --> 00:30:57.919
improving free software
00:30:57.919 --> 00:31:01.039
we might well if we could do this 20
00:31:01.039 --> 00:31:03.279
years ago we might have wiped out
00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:06.559
non-free systems and then we wouldn't
00:31:06.559 --> 00:31:07.200
have had
00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:10.320
horrible things like
00:31:10.320 --> 00:31:14.480
world wide web drm that
00:31:14.480 --> 00:31:18.000
no one has the courage to resist
00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:20.480
if they're desperately trying to get
00:31:20.480 --> 00:31:22.640
money for anything
00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:26.240
and if they need approval of companies
00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:29.519
of the big companies that push for drm
00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:32.960
uh then they don't dare even resist as
00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:38.240
much as they can resist
00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:40.880
and look what happened to the world wide
00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:43.200
web consortium
00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:47.279
uh they surrendered blatantly
00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:50.399
and ignominiously by
00:31:50.399 --> 00:31:55.760
endorsing the drm system
00:31:55.760 --> 00:31:59.600
so what can you do I don't have a magic
00:31:59.600 --> 00:32:00.880
wand
00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:04.720
I'm a human being with the capabilities
00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:06.559
I have
00:32:06.559 --> 00:32:09.919
but the advantage of
00:32:09.919 --> 00:32:12.840
great firmness in campaigning for free
00:32:12.840 --> 00:32:14.000
software
00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:18.240
and this enables me to do things
00:32:18.240 --> 00:32:27.679
that no one else will do
00:32:27.679 --> 00:32:30.480
what tools from pre unix days do you
00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:31.519
miss
00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:34.240
well I don't I don't think about them
00:32:34.240 --> 00:32:34.880
with
00:32:34.880 --> 00:32:38.640
missing them actually but
00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:42.080
it was sort of nice to have
00:32:42.080 --> 00:32:46.240
ddt as your login shell
00:32:46.240 --> 00:32:49.600
so in using modern terminology
00:32:49.600 --> 00:32:52.640
because that meant at any time you could
00:32:52.640 --> 00:32:55.519
stop a program lotus debugging symbols
00:32:55.519 --> 00:32:57.519
and start examining the data in the
00:32:57.519 --> 00:32:58.799
instructions
00:32:58.799 --> 00:33:01.519
you could debug it that way and then you
00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:03.039
could even
00:33:03.039 --> 00:33:06.720
patch in instructions to continue
00:33:06.720 --> 00:33:09.760
running that job with the bug fixed
00:33:09.760 --> 00:33:11.600
in fact you could even do this with the
00:33:11.600 --> 00:33:13.919
system kernel
00:33:13.919 --> 00:33:16.640
so that your jobs wouldn't get lost I
00:33:16.640 --> 00:33:17.840
did that
00:33:17.840 --> 00:33:20.559
quite a few times of course sometimes I
00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:22.720
saw what was wrong and I just had to
00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:25.919
fix a piece of data but sometimes
00:33:25.919 --> 00:33:28.240
it took me a long time to figure out how
00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:29.679
to get the system to
00:33:29.679 --> 00:33:32.480
keep on going but with the work I had
00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:34.240
done
00:33:34.240 --> 00:33:39.279
I didn't want to lose that work
00:33:39.279 --> 00:33:41.600
and so one of the first features I put
00:33:41.600 --> 00:33:43.039
into gdu Emacs was
00:33:43.039 --> 00:33:47.760
auto save
00:33:47.760 --> 00:33:50.640
uh I'm not going to try to figure out
00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:54.320
which packages I re I actually used
00:33:54.320 --> 00:33:56.480
uh if I knew I would get hit by a bus
00:33:56.480 --> 00:33:59.039
tomorrow
00:33:59.039 --> 00:34:02.320
uh say because of a fortune teller
00:34:02.320 --> 00:34:05.039
no a fortune teller doesn't give you any
00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:06.240
knowledge it's just
00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:10.159
superstitious uh hand waving
00:34:10.159 --> 00:34:13.760
so assuming that I
00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:16.480
talked that I got a reading from a
00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:18.879
fortune teller which is
00:34:18.879 --> 00:34:23.119
implausible enough to begin with uh
00:34:23.119 --> 00:34:25.040
that wouldn't give me any knowledge
00:34:25.040 --> 00:34:28.320
about what was going to happen to me
00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:32.879
oh by the way fortune tellers generally
00:34:32.879 --> 00:34:34.960
play back to you facts that they've
00:34:34.960 --> 00:34:36.879
discovered about you
00:34:36.879 --> 00:34:40.480
together with cold reading which means
00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:43.440
they say things calculated to make it
00:34:43.440 --> 00:34:44.639
appear that they know
00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:49.119
more than they do or things that are
00:34:49.119 --> 00:34:52.399
uh that sound wise to anyone
00:34:52.399 --> 00:34:55.679
so you can say the same thing to
00:34:55.679 --> 00:34:58.800
uh say 100 people
00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:02.000
and 80 or 90 of them will say boy that
00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:06.480
was really accurate
00:35:06.480 --> 00:35:10.400
but what if for some reason
00:35:10.400 --> 00:35:15.119
uh about
00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:17.440
what what advice would I give for
00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:18.560
stewardship of
00:35:18.560 --> 00:35:22.079
Emacs well basically
00:35:22.079 --> 00:35:25.359
focus on
00:35:25.359 --> 00:35:28.480
keeping the community strong in
00:35:28.480 --> 00:35:29.280
defending
00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:32.640
freedom if you have a choice between
00:35:32.640 --> 00:35:34.400
keeping the community strong in
00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:36.079
defending freedom
00:35:36.079 --> 00:35:38.800
and getting more people to participate
00:35:38.800 --> 00:35:40.720
in the development
00:35:40.720 --> 00:35:43.839
you've got to choose the freedom it is
00:35:43.839 --> 00:35:44.400
very
00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:48.400
easy for free software projects to
00:35:48.400 --> 00:35:52.320
subordinate freedom to other criteria
00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:55.359
and once that happens it's
00:35:55.359 --> 00:35:58.079
easy for those who don't care much about
00:35:58.079 --> 00:35:58.720
freedom
00:35:58.720 --> 00:36:00.800
such as sometimes companies that might
00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:02.640
offer you some money
00:36:02.640 --> 00:36:08.160
to purchase your soul
00:36:08.160 --> 00:36:10.560
not that there are really things that
00:36:10.560 --> 00:36:14.240
exist called souls it's a metaphor but
00:36:14.240 --> 00:36:16.560
it's an important metaphor for something
00:36:16.560 --> 00:36:18.800
important
00:36:18.800 --> 00:36:20.880
people in the community have to be
00:36:20.880 --> 00:36:24.320
thinking about freedom
00:36:24.320 --> 00:36:27.280
when they make decisions about what is
00:36:27.280 --> 00:36:31.839
wise to do
00:36:31.839 --> 00:36:36.480
the decision to devel to set up non-glpa
00:36:36.480 --> 00:36:39.839
has a drawback it was a compromise now a
00:36:39.839 --> 00:36:41.520
lot of people will
00:36:41.520 --> 00:36:44.560
tell you that I am uncompromising and
00:36:44.560 --> 00:36:46.240
say that that's a flaw
00:36:46.240 --> 00:36:48.720
well they're wrong I make little
00:36:48.720 --> 00:36:50.320
compromises
00:36:50.320 --> 00:36:53.040
very often and occasionally I make a
00:36:53.040 --> 00:36:55.359
medium-sized compromise
00:36:55.359 --> 00:36:58.880
the compromise is in the past we wanted
00:36:58.880 --> 00:36:59.359
to get
00:36:59.359 --> 00:37:01.599
copyright assignments for the packages
00:37:01.599 --> 00:37:02.400
in gnu
00:37:02.400 --> 00:37:06.240
elpa so that we could move them into
00:37:06.240 --> 00:37:09.119
core Emacs and of course sometimes we
00:37:09.119 --> 00:37:11.200
move packages in the other direction
00:37:11.200 --> 00:37:14.480
that way we are where we distribute a
00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:16.160
given package
00:37:16.160 --> 00:37:18.160
is something we can decide purely
00:37:18.160 --> 00:37:20.880
technically
00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:25.200
and however make insisting on getting
00:37:25.200 --> 00:37:26.800
copyright assignments for all the
00:37:26.800 --> 00:37:28.640
packages in gnu elpa
00:37:28.640 --> 00:37:32.079
meant that we had to say sorry no
00:37:32.079 --> 00:37:35.119
we will not install that packages in
00:37:35.119 --> 00:37:38.560
packaging dewey lpa unless the
00:37:38.560 --> 00:37:41.520
authors sign copyright assignments and
00:37:41.520 --> 00:37:44.079
sometimes that's a lot of trouble
00:37:44.079 --> 00:37:47.520
well non-glpa
00:37:47.520 --> 00:37:50.160
won't require copyright assignments if
00:37:50.160 --> 00:37:51.520
there's a free package
00:37:51.520 --> 00:37:54.560
we can make whatever changes presumably
00:37:54.560 --> 00:37:57.200
small otherwise we would probably say
00:37:57.200 --> 00:38:00.560
we don't have time but and then
00:38:00.560 --> 00:38:04.560
put it in but it does have the drawback
00:38:04.560 --> 00:38:05.599
that
00:38:05.599 --> 00:38:07.680
we in general we won't be able to move
00:38:07.680 --> 00:38:09.119
those packages
00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:12.960
into core Emacs without
00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:14.960
getting the legal papers then that we
00:38:14.960 --> 00:38:20.160
didn't get before
00:38:20.160 --> 00:38:24.320
how do you see the future of gdu Emacs
00:38:24.320 --> 00:38:27.599
uh I don't see the future
00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:29.839
I used to say that my crystal ball is
00:38:29.839 --> 00:38:31.680
cloudy today
00:38:31.680 --> 00:38:35.680
unfortunately that has another
00:38:35.680 --> 00:38:39.040
meaning which is quite ironic uh we
00:38:39.040 --> 00:38:41.200
certainly don't want
00:38:41.200 --> 00:38:44.800
our lives to be
00:38:44.800 --> 00:38:48.480
somewhere in a cloud because
00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:51.119
that clouds your mind and then people
00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:51.599
start
00:38:51.599 --> 00:38:54.240
cheating you and taking advantage of you
00:38:54.240 --> 00:38:56.880
and it's horrible
00:38:56.880 --> 00:39:00.160
but uh I don't see the future I just
00:39:00.160 --> 00:39:02.720
can be sure from the past that there
00:39:02.720 --> 00:39:03.839
will be
00:39:03.839 --> 00:39:07.599
challenges where some of the people
00:39:07.599 --> 00:39:10.720
involved want to make a big compromise
00:39:10.720 --> 00:39:12.960
that isn't worth it
00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:16.880
and they some they may even get the
00:39:16.880 --> 00:39:18.079
impression that it's
00:39:18.079 --> 00:39:21.200
up to them well actually
00:39:21.200 --> 00:39:24.480
Emacs has appointed maintainers just as
00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:27.440
every gdu package does and they are the
00:39:27.440 --> 00:39:29.280
ones in charge of developing that
00:39:29.280 --> 00:39:30.480
package
00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:34.400
and this is for a good reason
00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:38.200
because the appointed maintainers take
00:39:38.200 --> 00:39:39.760
responsibility
00:39:39.760 --> 00:39:42.240
to carry out the gnu project policies
00:39:42.240 --> 00:39:44.079
and most important of all
00:39:44.079 --> 00:39:46.160
are the ones that make the whole system
00:39:46.160 --> 00:39:47.520
work together
00:39:47.520 --> 00:39:52.640
and the ethical standards
00:39:52.640 --> 00:39:59.920
to respect freedom and defend freedom
00:39:59.920 --> 00:40:02.240
is there any plan to move more packages
00:40:02.240 --> 00:40:04.960
from core Emacs into elpa
00:40:04.960 --> 00:40:08.480
uh I don't know uh
00:40:08.480 --> 00:40:11.440
whether there is a plan I suppose if
00:40:11.440 --> 00:40:12.720
there's a plan
00:40:12.720 --> 00:40:15.680
we probably would have done it if there
00:40:15.680 --> 00:40:16.960
had been a plan
00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:19.839
some have been moved I don't see this as
00:40:19.839 --> 00:40:20.319
a
00:40:20.319 --> 00:40:22.400
fundamentally important issue it's a
00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:24.160
matter of what's convenient for
00:40:24.160 --> 00:40:26.640
the users and their advantages and
00:40:26.640 --> 00:40:29.599
disadvantages to each choice
00:40:29.599 --> 00:40:32.800
what is your opinion on higher education
00:40:32.800 --> 00:40:35.760
uh requiring non-free software for
00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:36.720
instance
00:40:36.720 --> 00:40:40.400
well I wouldn't I wouldn't
00:40:40.400 --> 00:40:43.440
matriculate in a school which did that
00:40:43.440 --> 00:40:50.960
unless I saw a way I could refuse
00:40:50.960 --> 00:40:54.960
now of course I do this
00:40:54.960 --> 00:40:57.760
because I can get away with it and
00:40:57.760 --> 00:41:00.240
therefore my doing it is extremely
00:41:00.240 --> 00:41:04.960
important to show somebody does resist
00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:08.400
I don't expect most people who support
00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:09.359
free school
00:41:09.359 --> 00:41:12.319
who advocate free software to go that
00:41:12.319 --> 00:41:13.599
far
00:41:13.599 --> 00:41:17.760
uh I published an article in the spring
00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:21.040
entitled saying no even once
00:41:21.040 --> 00:41:24.640
is helping saying no to non-free
00:41:24.640 --> 00:41:25.359
software
00:41:25.359 --> 00:41:29.040
even once because
00:41:29.040 --> 00:41:32.240
the more you do it the more you help but
00:41:32.240 --> 00:41:34.640
even doing it a little in a way that
00:41:34.640 --> 00:41:36.640
other people notice
00:41:36.640 --> 00:41:39.920
is starting to help so
00:41:39.920 --> 00:41:43.440
uh please don't think that your choices
00:41:43.440 --> 00:41:45.119
are either
00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:48.480
be as firm and stubborn as I am
00:41:48.480 --> 00:41:52.240
or just give up and let yourself drift
00:41:52.240 --> 00:41:56.240
helplessly as if you had no volition
00:41:56.240 --> 00:41:58.079
there are a lot of points in between
00:41:58.079 --> 00:42:00.720
there and you can surely
00:42:00.720 --> 00:42:04.079
manage to say no some of the time
00:42:04.079 --> 00:42:07.839
and show people an example of saying no
00:42:07.839 --> 00:42:11.040
some of the time for instance you could
00:42:11.040 --> 00:42:12.720
say to people
00:42:12.720 --> 00:42:15.520
you know I hate the fact that my school
00:42:15.520 --> 00:42:16.000
makes me
00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:20.400
use zoom uh so whenever
00:42:20.400 --> 00:42:22.240
I'm not being forced I'm not going to
00:42:22.240 --> 00:42:25.760
use it
00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:29.200
or I hate the fact that the only way I
00:42:29.200 --> 00:42:31.200
can talk to that group of people
00:42:31.200 --> 00:42:35.200
is resume but when
00:42:35.200 --> 00:42:38.400
but for anything else I will feel better
00:42:38.400 --> 00:42:40.079
about myself if I don't
00:42:40.079 --> 00:42:42.880
see lots of ways to say no some of the
00:42:42.880 --> 00:42:44.000
time
00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:47.040
and yield some of the time
00:42:47.040 --> 00:42:50.960
and when you try saying no occasionally
00:42:50.960 --> 00:42:53.920
you may just develop the ability to say
00:42:53.920 --> 00:42:56.400
no more often
00:42:56.400 --> 00:42:58.800
now whether you would ever get to be as
00:42:58.800 --> 00:43:00.640
stubborn as I am
00:43:00.640 --> 00:43:04.480
I don't know but what I find is that
00:43:04.480 --> 00:43:08.480
I like the fact that I've never made
00:43:08.480 --> 00:43:12.480
this kind of compromise
00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:15.839
I feel I have a reputation to maintain
00:43:15.839 --> 00:43:19.319
nobody's forcing me but I get
00:43:19.319 --> 00:43:21.119
satisfaction
00:43:21.119 --> 00:43:24.319
out of maintaining out of being able to
00:43:24.319 --> 00:43:26.400
continue to say
00:43:26.400 --> 00:43:30.880
I will not
00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:34.480
you are now unmuted and that also
00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:40.480
can happen at various different levels
00:43:40.480 --> 00:43:43.520
so you can get that satisfaction
00:43:43.520 --> 00:43:46.640
of fully maintaining a refusal
00:43:46.640 --> 00:43:54.400
that applies only to certain areas
00:43:54.400 --> 00:43:57.040
citizens uh noon already let's maybe
00:43:57.040 --> 00:43:58.880
take one or two more questions and then
00:43:58.880 --> 00:43:59.599
break for
00:43:59.599 --> 00:44:03.200
the lunch break okay thank you
00:44:03.200 --> 00:44:06.000
how often do you personally use Emacs as
00:44:06.000 --> 00:44:07.440
the
00:44:07.440 --> 00:44:10.640
lowest question now uh
00:44:10.640 --> 00:44:16.640
well I use it most of the day
00:44:16.640 --> 00:44:18.880
I occasionally do use other things in
00:44:18.880 --> 00:44:20.160
fact I occasionally edit with
00:44:20.160 --> 00:44:21.599
libreoffice
00:44:21.599 --> 00:44:24.240
I occasionally use media players I
00:44:24.240 --> 00:44:25.280
occasionally
00:44:25.280 --> 00:44:29.040
uh
00:44:29.040 --> 00:44:32.480
I occasionally ssh to a machine and type
00:44:32.480 --> 00:44:34.000
some commands on it
00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:35.440
which occasionally includes running
00:44:35.440 --> 00:44:42.319
Emacs on it
00:44:42.319 --> 00:44:45.760
I read pdf files a lot
00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:47.520
would be nice if you could get those
00:44:47.520 --> 00:44:49.599
into Emacs so that I could read them
00:44:49.599 --> 00:44:52.240
with Emacs commands
00:44:52.240 --> 00:44:55.040
and I maybe even edit them with the max
00:44:55.040 --> 00:44:56.160
commands
00:44:56.160 --> 00:44:59.440
when they can be edited I use
00:44:59.440 --> 00:45:02.960
uh journal sometimes
00:45:02.960 --> 00:45:10.079
to write on a pdf file
00:45:10.079 --> 00:45:12.160
are there any more interesting projects
00:45:12.160 --> 00:45:13.760
you have in mind over and above
00:45:13.760 --> 00:45:18.400
non-gnu elpa uh
00:45:18.400 --> 00:45:22.079
I can't think of one right now well
00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:25.520
there are things there are things that
00:45:25.520 --> 00:45:27.119
the gnu project needs
00:45:27.119 --> 00:45:30.560
doing there are packages that don't have
00:45:30.560 --> 00:45:32.319
maintainers or could use
00:45:32.319 --> 00:45:35.839
more maintainers uh
00:45:35.839 --> 00:45:38.880
talk with maintainers at canoe.org
00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:42.000
and the assistant candusences will
00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:44.960
help you find a package where you can do
00:45:44.960 --> 00:45:48.400
good
00:45:48.400 --> 00:45:50.560
not for beginners though you got to get
00:45:50.560 --> 00:45:52.079
you got to learn
00:45:52.079 --> 00:45:55.599
uh a substantive substantial level of
00:45:55.599 --> 00:45:58.160
capacity to develop and debug programs
00:45:58.160 --> 00:45:59.440
before you can
00:45:59.440 --> 00:46:02.800
be a maintainer uh have I ever looked at
00:46:02.800 --> 00:46:04.480
maggot
00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:08.400
uh no I haven't
00:46:08.400 --> 00:46:11.920
but I believe
00:46:11.920 --> 00:46:14.880
work is being done to get it put into
00:46:14.880 --> 00:46:16.560
Emacs
00:46:16.560 --> 00:46:22.240
and at that point I'll give it a try
00:46:22.240 --> 00:46:25.200
I do not want to share my configuration
00:46:25.200 --> 00:46:25.760
files
00:46:25.760 --> 00:46:29.520
they're personal but
00:46:29.520 --> 00:46:33.599
how about if we end this now
00:46:33.599 --> 00:46:36.880
you are now unmuted sounds good to me
00:46:36.880 --> 00:46:38.880
thank you very much richard for joining
00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:41.520
in for live questions
00:46:41.520 --> 00:46:43.839
okay
|
