path: root/2025/info/llm-after.md

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<div class="transcript transcript-mainVideo"><a name="llm-mainVideo-transcript"></a><h1>Transcript</h1>


<div class="transcript-heading">[[!template new="1" text="""Introduction""" start="00:00:01.040" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]</div>[[!template text="""Hi, I'm Andrew Hyatt.""" start="00:00:01.040" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""I'm going to talk to you today about Emacs and AI,""" start="00:00:03.080" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and where things are right now""" start="00:00:09.400" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""in the world of Emacs and AI,""" start="00:00:10.880" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""via large language models,""" start="00:00:12.120" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and where things might be going,""" start="00:00:14.160" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and what it means for the future of Emacs.""" start="00:00:17.000" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""I think what we're seeing with Emacs is interesting.""" start="00:00:22.700" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""We've seen a lot of different things""" start="00:00:27.280" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""come around in the past year,""" start="00:00:29.400" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""in the past several years.""" start="00:00:31.560" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""There's lots of different solutions.""" start="00:00:33.120" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""But in the past year, things have been very interesting.""" start="00:00:35.080" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""I think there's new and interesting questions""" start="00:00:36.760" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""about what does it mean to use Emacs?""" start="00:00:39.680" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""What does it mean to use any editor?""" start="00:00:43.280" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""I'm going to be talking about Emacs,""" start="00:00:45.480" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and I'm going to show you various Emacs packages""" start="00:00:47.280" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""as demonstrations of these ideas.""" start="00:00:50.360" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""But there's the general question of""" start="00:00:53.080" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""what does it mean to use any editor, not just Emacs?""" start="00:00:59.840" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""What does it mean to do work?""" start="00:01:03.720" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""And I think the industry in general is facing these challenges""" start="00:01:06.240" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""of we don't really know where things are going to end up,""" start="00:01:10.720" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""but we do know the direction they're going.""" start="00:01:13.280" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Emacs is a reflection of that.""" start="00:01:16.920" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""I think the answer for Emacs might be""" start="00:01:20.040" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""a little bit different than everything else,""" start="00:01:23.240" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""but I do want to show you what's out there""" start="00:01:25.720" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""so we can explore what are the possibilities""" start="00:01:28.600" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""of Emacs, AI, and generally how we get things done.""" start="00:01:33.320" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Thanks. Let's dive right into it.""" start="00:01:41.120" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]

<div class="transcript-heading">[[!template new="1" text="""Copilot""" start="00:01:44.720" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]</div>[[!template text="""We're going to start by showing you""" start="00:01:44.720" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""some things that are pretty well integrated,""" start="00:01:48.080" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""that look a lot like what you see in Emacs""" start="00:01:51.040" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and fit in with the kinds of editing""" start="00:01:55.280" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""that you normally do in Emacs.""" start="00:01:58.680" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So this is just kind of like, it's well integrated.""" start="00:02:02.640" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So we're going to talk about Copilot and Semext.""" start="00:02:06.580" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Copilot is by Microsoft via GitHub,""" start="00:02:08.780" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and Semext is just my personal demo,""" start="00:02:12.680" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""but they're both showing you, you know,""" start="00:02:14.760" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""this kind of thing. Let's start with Copilot.""" start="00:02:18.040" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Let's try out Copilot on just a standard bit of Elisp.""" start="00:02:24.400" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""We're going to write a Fibonacci function.""" start="00:02:31.920" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Let's try out Emacs on a standard bit of Elisp.""" start="00:02:38.440" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""We're going to write a Fibonacci function.""" start="00:02:43.080" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""And you can see like as soon as we even start typing it,""" start="00:02:49.280" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""we get everything as a completion.""" start="00:02:53.160" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So you can just press Tab here,""" start="00:02:56.340" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and you've just completed""" start="00:02:59.880" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""a significant bunch of Emacs Lisp code.""" start="00:03:02.160" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It will do this no matter where you are.""" start="00:03:06.800" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So, pretty useful. It will just keep suggesting things.""" start="00:03:09.920" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Do you want to do this?""" start="00:03:14.800" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""I'm not sure.""" start="00:03:16.440" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""But it usually is offering pretty reasonable things.""" start="00:03:17.480" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So you could do this with code,""" start="00:03:22.840" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""of course, any code.""" start="00:03:29.300" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""You don't really even have to have a mode for it, right?""" start="00:03:32.120" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""That's kind of the beauty of AI is that""" start="00:03:33.920" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""you don't need any Emacs functionality for this,""" start="00:03:36.680" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""except for Copilot.""" start="00:03:38.520" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It doesn't need to know the structure of your code.""" start="00:03:39.520" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It doesn't need anything except for the text itself""" start="00:03:41.680" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and whatever AI integration that this is.""" start="00:03:45.280" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""We can look at, you can do the same thing with Org-mode.""" start="00:03:51.240" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So we could say create, no,""" start="00:03:53.740" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""how about let's, let's do, you know, spring cleaning.""" start="00:03:58.000" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It's actually the fall, but still we'll say spring cleaning.""" start="00:04:02.920" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""And it'll start suggesting things that, you know,""" start="00:04:10.840" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""maybe at first, it doesn't really know what to do to""" start="00:04:12.768" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""clean up all code.""" start="00:04:15.440" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It thinks I need to clean up code, but no,""" start="00:04:16.434" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""this is going to be actual, you know,""" start="00:04:18.401" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""clean hood over range. Clean out pantry.""" start="00:04:21.840" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""These are all really reasonable suggestions.""" start="00:04:31.568" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""You just keep going here.""" start="00:04:33.880" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]

<div class="transcript-heading">[[!template new="1" text="""Semext""" start="00:04:38.320" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]</div>[[!template text="""I'm going to demonstrate Semext,""" start="00:04:38.320" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""which is a package I have on GNU Elpa,""" start="00:04:40.560" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""that is designed to integrate AI in a very Emacs-like way.""" start="00:04:43.880" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""And so what you could do is you could do a""" start="00:04:48.720" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""semext-search-forward.""" start="00:04:51.000" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""The UI looks just like other Emacs commands,""" start="00:04:54.800" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""but you can search for anything.""" start="00:04:58.720" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""There's really no way to express what I'm about to,""" start="00:05:02.380" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""what I'm trying to demonstrate""" start="00:05:06.280" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""in Emacs's normal search commands.""" start="00:05:08.680" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""You could really ask for anything.""" start="00:05:12.360" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""And it takes a little while, which is not Emacs-like,""" start="00:05:15.400" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""but everything else is sort of like""" start="00:05:18.760" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""it's designed to be like Emacs,""" start="00:05:20.034" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""except way more powerful.""" start="00:05:21.720" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""You don't need any mode to be active for this.""" start="00:05:23.520" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""You  just need the library""" start="00:05:27.120" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and an AI provider of some sort, either locally""" start="00:05:32.040" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""or, you know, your favorite cloud provider.""" start="00:05:34.760" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]

<div class="transcript-heading">[[!template new="1" text="""Integrated AI experiences: gptel, ellama, chatgpt-shell, etc.""" start="00:05:41.200" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]</div>[[!template text="""Now we're going to move on to a different way""" start="00:05:41.200" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""of interacting with AI and Emacs.""" start="00:05:43.680" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""This way is less like the normal editing experience.""" start="00:05:46.400" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So you lose some familiarity. However, in exchange,""" start="00:05:52.320" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""it is a lot more powerful.""" start="00:05:57.000" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""And there's a whole suite of these tools.""" start="00:05:58.080" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""I'm going to demonstrate gptel,""" start="00:06:00.120" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""which is the most popular one.""" start="00:06:02.480" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""But there are many.""" start="00:06:05.780" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""And I think different people have""" start="00:06:06.400" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""their own preferences of what they like to use.""" start="00:06:08.480" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""We're going to try now something""" start="00:06:11.760" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""that is a step away from just editing.""" start="00:06:13.000" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""And we're going to, I'm actually using gptel.""" start="00:06:15.080" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""There are several packages that are going to be""" start="00:06:19.840" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""doing the same sort of thing as I'm going to show you.""" start="00:06:22.800" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""gptel has sort of become the most popular one.""" start="00:06:25.960" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So that's why I'm showing that to you.""" start="00:06:30.000" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""But let's just highlight everything and say gptel rewrite.""" start="00:06:32.200" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""And gptel basically just has a few things.""" start="00:06:39.320" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""There's different ways of thinking about this.""" start="00:06:42.400" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""With just a few very configurable menus,""" start="00:06:45.120" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""you can do a large variety of things.""" start="00:06:50.000" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So let's give rewrite instructions.""" start="00:06:53.960" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""&quot;Turn this into an iterative program""" start="00:06:59.820" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""instead of a recursive program.&quot;""" start="00:07:06.601" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""In Elisp, you really should not be using recursion.""" start="00:07:12.200" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So we could say &quot;return to be ready&quot;.""" start="00:07:17.800" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Do we accept it?""" start="00:07:20.360" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Yes, we accept it. Or we could iterate and say, no, no,""" start="00:07:21.120" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""that's not what we meant. We meant something else.""" start="00:07:24.520" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Or you did something a little something wrong.""" start="00:07:26.800" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Please fix it.""" start="00:07:29.160" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So this is all very powerful.""" start="00:07:29.880" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Is this editing?""" start="00:07:31.880" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Well, it's in the editor.""" start="00:07:33.800" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""You could do this while editing, while deleting,""" start="00:07:40.280" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""you could be doing some sort of traditional editing.""" start="00:07:42.760" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""And then this, which is editing""" start="00:07:44.960" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""in the sense that it's in your editor,""" start="00:07:47.680" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""you might have to highlight""" start="00:07:48.920" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""some parts of the file and do things,""" start="00:07:51.040" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""but generally you don't even need to,""" start="00:07:52.800" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""or you go to a spot and you say, put code at this spot.""" start="00:07:54.720" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It's kind of like editing.""" start="00:07:59.880" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""I would say it's not exactly editing,""" start="00:08:01.960" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""but it's at least something that must happen in an editor""" start="00:08:05.840" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and it's well integrated into Emacs.""" start="00:08:10.160" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""As you can tell, it used very sort of""" start="00:08:12.360" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""modern standard Emacs UI paradigms""" start="00:08:14.760" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and it's all written in Elisp.""" start="00:08:18.240" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Everything is happening in Elisp here.""" start="00:08:20.760" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So this is just very much an Emacs experience.""" start="00:08:23.780" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It's just not exactly editing""" start="00:08:25.960" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""because the thing doing the editing""" start="00:08:27.680" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""is the AI and not you.""" start="00:08:29.880" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""You're just kind of telling it what to do.""" start="00:08:32.520" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]

<div class="transcript-heading">[[!template new="1" text="""Outside the editor""" start="00:08:36.040" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]</div>[[!template text="""Now we're going to go and look at a way of interaction""" start="00:08:36.040" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""that's even more powerful""" start="00:08:41.120" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and even more disconnected from the normal editing experience.""" start="00:08:43.240" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""In fact, it's so disconnected""" start="00:08:46.280" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""that most people are using this without an editor.""" start="00:08:47.920" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""These are things like Claude Code""" start="00:08:52.400" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""or the sort of open source equivalent, Aider.""" start="00:08:57.880" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""There's a few other things that follow this pattern as well.""" start="00:09:01.080" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""But it's very interesting in the sense""" start="00:09:05.040" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""that while you can integrate these with the editors,""" start="00:09:07.480" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and I'm going to show you an Emacs integration,""" start="00:09:09.840" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""you don't need to.""" start="00:09:12.040" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""And that's not the way most people are using them.""" start="00:09:13.520" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""And I find it very interesting that sort of""" start="00:09:16.940" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""we're going back kind of full circle where, you know,""" start="00:09:19.760" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""in the 1960s or 70s, we were using Ed from the terminal""" start="00:09:23.720" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""to edit files, but then we created editors,""" start="00:09:31.960" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and that was a really good idea.""" start="00:09:35.640" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It is a lot easier to edit files""" start="00:09:37.960" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""when you have an actual UI.""" start="00:09:40.168" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""But now it's 2025, and we're back in the terminal,""" start="00:09:42.500" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and we're editing files through the terminal,""" start="00:09:46.880" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and you know what, it's great,""" start="00:09:50.800" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""but I think it's even better with Emacs.""" start="00:09:53.600" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""On the other hand, it comes with some trade-offs,""" start="00:09:56.900" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""as you can see, as we will see.""" start="00:10:00.280" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]

<div class="transcript-heading">[[!template new="1" text="""Outside Experiences: claude-code.el, aidermacs, eca""" start="00:10:04.734" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]</div>[[!template text="""Okay, we're going to look at""" start="00:10:04.734" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""[audio glitch] Claude Code IDE, aidermacs, ECA.""" start="00:10:07.468" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Last time, I didn't show you all the variants.""" start="00:10:20.321" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""I do want to show you eca, which points to,""" start="00:10:22.640" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""it is a very similar tool in what it does,""" start="00:10:26.840" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""but does have a different""" start="00:10:29.800" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and I think better type of Emacs integration.""" start="00:10:32.740" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""All right, we're going to demonstrate Claude Code IDE,""" start="00:10:37.240" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""which is one of three Claude Code packages.""" start="00:10:42.600" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It's a bit confusing.""" start="00:10:46.840" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""One of them will be demoed by another presenter""" start="00:10:47.720" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""at the Emacs conference, so stay tuned for that.""" start="00:10:52.040" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Here I'm just going to give you a little taste""" start="00:10:54.640" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""of what these packages look like.""" start="00:10:56.440" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So if we say Claude Code IDE,""" start="00:10:58.760" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""it presents us with basically""" start="00:11:03.340" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""almost exactly what you would get""" start="00:11:06.840" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""when you're running this in the terminal.""" start="00:11:09.040" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""And essentially there's a terminal interface.""" start="00:11:11.520" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""You can see that there's a vterm.""" start="00:11:13.934" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""But here we're going to say, &quot;In scratch.el&quot;...""" start="00:11:16.660" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""let's say what we want to happen.""" start="00:11:20.700" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""[In scratch.el, there is a fibonacci function.""" start="00:11:23.401" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Can you add all normal elisp headers""" start="00:11:32.134" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and footers to this file?]""" start="00:11:39.568" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So, we just say what's going to happen,""" start="00:11:43.860" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and this is going to do things in the background.""" start="00:11:45.841" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It's not going to do things through Emacs.""" start="00:11:48.400" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""That said, there is an integration with Emacs,""" start="00:11:50.980" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""so that it can do things like show you these nice ediffs.""" start="00:11:54.080" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""My screen is not really wide enough""" start="00:12:00.660" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""to show you a really great ediff here,""" start="00:12:03.200" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""but you can kind of see what it's doing,""" start="00:12:04.700" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and you can see, yeah, that looks good,""" start="00:12:06.240" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""so you could say yes, yes, accept the changes,""" start="00:12:09.080" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and if we... Just need to revert the buffer.""" start="00:12:14.121" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""We can quit the printout of this.""" start="00:12:25.300" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""We see that it just did everything I asked it to.""" start="00:12:28.460" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Is everything exactly right?""" start="00:12:33.020" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Probably not. It's reasonable for a start though.""" start="00:12:36.140" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""But you could ask it to do anything.""" start="00:12:39.160" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""You could say, write unit tests for this, and it will.""" start="00:12:40.960" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""You could say, write me a suite of functions""" start="00:12:45.340" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""like Fibonacci, and it'll probably do something reasonable.""" start="00:12:49.020" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""But you can see this is not editing.""" start="00:12:52.580" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""There's nothing editing-like about this.""" start="00:12:54.901" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""That said, there is something that is editing.""" start="00:12:58.660" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""You need to give it instructions.""" start="00:13:07.160" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""You need to tell it what to do.""" start="00:13:08.600" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]

<div class="transcript-heading">[[!template new="1" text="""Org files""" start="00:13:10.960" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]</div>[[!template text="""And what you could do is... You could have a project.org,""" start="00:13:10.960" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and what you could do is you could have functions.""" start="00:13:19.620" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""The way I've done things often is ....""" start="00:13:23.900" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""You could say something like,""" start="00:13:26.660" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""unit tests for Fibonacci. How do you spell Fibonacci?""" start="00:13:28.440" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""I don't remember. But then you could say that this is,""" start="00:13:36.200" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""you could clock it, basically. org-clock.""" start="00:13:40.480" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""What I've done is...""" start="00:13:47.160" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""You could add custom commands to Claude Code,""" start="00:13:48.880" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and you could just say, look, here's my Org file,""" start="00:13:50.400" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""read it and do the thing that I'm clocked in as.""" start="00:13:53.120" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""And then you can write a bunch of instructions here, like,""" start="00:13:57.880" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""I like to use ert for tests. Tests should, like, whatever.""" start="00:14:01.160" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""You should just say... everything""" start="00:14:07.040" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""you need to kind of specify.""" start="00:14:08.640" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""As you get to more complicated tasks,""" start="00:14:11.000" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""it's harder and harder to give it all the context""" start="00:14:13.200" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""it needs for a task,""" start="00:14:16.680" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and Org Mode is actually a pretty good way to do this.""" start="00:14:17.800" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""I find that this works pretty well,""" start="00:14:22.300" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and you can even have it instruct Claude""" start="00:14:24.080" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""to just mark things done in your Org file""" start="00:14:26.700" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""when they're done.""" start="00:14:29.334" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""And it knows how to do this, of course.""" start="00:14:30.680" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So, let's just clock out.""" start="00:14:32.868" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""That's one way to do things.""" start="00:14:37.960" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]

<div class="transcript-heading">[[!template new="1" text="""ECA""" start="00:14:45.240" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]</div>[[!template text="""So one other thing I'd like to show you is eca,""" start="00:14:45.240" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""which, compared to Claude Code, ECA is open source.""" start="00:14:49.500" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It's very nice in that respect.""" start="00:14:52.880" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It doesn't have to use Anthropic's models.""" start="00:14:54.240" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""You can use local models,""" start="00:14:57.840" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""but it has the advantage of integrating very well with Emacs.""" start="00:15:00.280" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""I'm not going to demonstrate it,""" start="00:15:07.620" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""because it works essentially the same thing you could do""" start="00:15:08.560" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""approximately the same kinds of things""" start="00:15:11.160" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""you could do with Claude Code.""" start="00:15:14.120" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""You just write what you want to happen""" start="00:15:15.480" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and it will make it happen.""" start="00:15:17.440" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It again does not do this through Emacs,""" start="00:15:18.640" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""but what it does do is""" start="00:15:21.880" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""it gives you a much better Emacs interface""" start="00:15:23.040" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""that's not terminal-based,""" start="00:15:25.120" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""because you're not using it through the terminal,""" start="00:15:26.920" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""or not even through comint,""" start="00:15:29.640" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""you are using it through a backend""" start="00:15:31.240" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""that is exchanging structured information""" start="00:15:35.600" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""with this process that is doing all the work.""" start="00:15:37.500" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""But other than that,""" start="00:15:41.000" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""it's the same model as Claude Code""" start="00:15:41.901" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and projects of that nature.""" start="00:15:44.520" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]

<div class="transcript-heading">[[!template new="1" text="""Editing""" start="00:15:52.060" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]</div>[[!template text="""We've seen in the demos that I gave""" start="00:15:52.060" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""that there are AI experiences""" start="00:15:56.160" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""that are very natural in the world of editing.""" start="00:15:58.640" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""because they, like Copilot, just offers completion,""" start="00:16:01.280" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""it fits very well with what we all do in Emacs.""" start="00:16:05.340" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""And it's truly, yes, it's kind of a cheat in a sense""" start="00:16:09.480" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""for editing experiences,""" start="00:16:14.280" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""because it can do so much, but it's just editing.""" start="00:16:15.640" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Whereas things like gptel and those kinds of tools,""" start="00:16:20.160" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""they are clearly in an editor and using editor,""" start="00:16:25.260" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""they're using Emacs, but they represent sort of like, well,""" start="00:16:29.800" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""you can edit for a while, then you could use these tools""" start="00:16:35.320" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""to do something that is not editing,""" start="00:16:37.760" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""this AI just changing the buffer for you. And that's fine.""" start="00:16:39.480" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It's still... It may not be editing,""" start="00:16:45.900" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""but it's still clearly something that""" start="00:16:48.400" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""is useful to do in Emacs""" start="00:16:52.034" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and belongs in Emacs.""" start="00:16:55.568" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""But the new tools like Claude Code and things like that""" start="00:16:57.040" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""are kind of different.""" start="00:17:01.860" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Yes, they will get better integrated with Emacs,""" start="00:17:02.640" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""but it's not clear that they really need to.""" start="00:17:06.640" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""They can do a lot of things without editing.""" start="00:17:11.640" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""In a sense, editing is obsolete in some sense.""" start="00:17:15.480" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""For as many tasks, you don't need to edit anymore.""" start="00:17:19.240" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""And that's a nice thing.""" start="00:17:23.460" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""No one really knows when all this will end,""" start="00:17:26.440" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""how far things will go. It could be that in a decade or so,""" start="00:17:30.580" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""no one's really editing for work anymore.""" start="00:17:36.880" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Maybe you're just writing instructions.""" start="00:17:41.040" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""You could do that with anything.""" start="00:17:43.160" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""You don't need Emacs or any special editor.""" start="00:17:44.320" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""We could all be using Notepad. That would be bad.""" start="00:17:47.440" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""But... I think it could go that far,""" start="00:17:50.440" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""but it could be that, well, for many specialized things,""" start="00:17:58.040" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""people are still using editing for certain tasks,""" start="00:18:01.840" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""but most tasks are getting fed to just...""" start="00:18:04.360" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""AI is just doing those things.""" start="00:18:07.001" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""In any case, I think it's clear that editing is diminishing,""" start="00:18:08.840" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""the need for editing itself is diminishing.""" start="00:18:15.760" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""And in such a world, It's interesting to think""" start="00:18:17.960" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""where Emacs is headed, especially in relation to""" start="00:18:21.880" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""all the other editors.""" start="00:18:24.800" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""I think people will use Emacs less.""" start="00:18:26.360" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""But I think other editors, like VS Code,""" start="00:18:28.600" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""may simply disappear or be a relatively fringe tool.""" start="00:18:31.640" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""And Emacs is going to follow its own path.""" start="00:18:38.000" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It's very extensible. It could do anything.""" start="00:18:42.720" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""If there's one thing Emacs can do, it's adapt.""" start="00:18:44.680" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Emacs has been around for a long time.""" start="00:18:47.920" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It's pretty clear that Emacs will be around for a long time.""" start="00:18:51.680" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It might be that in the future,""" start="00:18:54.800" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""editing is some sort of like an artisanal activity that we do.""" start="00:18:58.880" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It's kind of weird to think about it.""" start="00:19:04.340" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It's not like baking bread.""" start="00:19:05.600" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""But it is the sense that AI might be""" start="00:19:07.680" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""churning out code in the way, you know,""" start="00:19:10.080" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""the factories are turning out bread,""" start="00:19:12.400" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""but if you really want the good stuff,""" start="00:19:14.200" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""you'll have to do it yourself.""" start="00:19:17.140" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""I don't know if it'll be exactly like that,""" start="00:19:21.000" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""but it could be that Emacs survives and thrives""" start="00:19:23.960" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""in a very kind of specialized ecosystem of people""" start="00:19:29.520" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""who contribute and use it in the way""" start="00:19:33.560" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""it has survived and thrive right now.""" start="00:19:35.600" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""And I think that's a really nice way for all this to end up.""" start="00:19:39.540" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""There's the whole sense of how society will end up""" start="00:19:46.140" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""if all this happens. I don't know,""" start="00:19:48.720" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""but Emacs will be there for us when whatever happens.""" start="00:19:50.760" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So thank you, and let's help make Emacs the best it can be""" start="00:19:54.640" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""to survive and thrive in the next decade.""" start="00:20:00.080" video="mainVideo-llm" id="subtitle"]]

</div>

Captioner: amitav

Questions or comments? Please e-mail [ahyatt@gmail.com](mailto:ahyatt@gmail.com?subject=Comment%20for%20EmacsConf%202023%20llm%3A%20Emacs%2C%20editors%2C%20and%20LLM%20driven%20workflows)


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