path: root/2025/captions/emacsconf-2025-latex--latex-export-in-orgmode-the-overhaul--pedro-a-aranda-gutirrez--main.vtt

WEBVTT captioned by sachac

NOTE Introduction

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Okay. Good afternoon, morning or evening,

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whatever it is in your time zone.

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I'm Pedro Aranda and I'm going to be talking about

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what I've been doing

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with the latest backend in Org Mode

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and the different... Sorry... and the way it treats fonts.

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Just a couple of words before

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I am going to go through motivation,

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the evolution and get you an idea of what you can get

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from the feature branch that I have started

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and give a couple of demos.

NOTE Motivation

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Actually, my motivation is I was using ox-latex currently

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and ox-beamer for as a foundation for my activities,

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mainly for lecture notes and lecture slides

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so I came from pure LaTeX and beamers

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and for me the real cool use case,

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or I would say this was

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the killer use case for me was

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I have a programming lecture,

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which is sort of a Python 101,

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and when I'm live in the lecture,

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I can go, and if the pupils ask me, I can modify code,

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show modified code and results on the fly,

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and that's something that really impresses the kids

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and makes them understand what we are talking about.

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From my pro... subjective point of view, in some,

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mainly in ox-beamer, some of the things that I was missing

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is that emojis would really break the monotony

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and I missed the support for emojis and stock Beamer themes.

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And some fonts I also found were suboptimal

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or difficult to adapt in case they need an adaptation.

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So, for example, people who need special fonts

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because of their special capabilities,

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it's difficult to get those fonts from the stock themes

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and from the stock font implementations you have there.

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So, requirements from the Emacs side to do this is none,

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because basically, okay, the only thing I want

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is to work on a vanilla Emacs,

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which is more or less recent,

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because yes, I'm a bit of a freak

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and I compile it every two, three...

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I get it from master and compile it every two, three days.

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And yahoo, I had to change to a new Mac,

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and I'm able now to get my vanilla Emacs within four.

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So that was a big accomplishment in these last days.

NOTE Evolution

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What is the evolution?

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I mean my personal evolution and my take of ox-latex

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was I put everything in a in a LaTeX file

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and I input it through the LaTeX header, and that's it.

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But that was not very beginner-friendly,

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and once I had some people interested in this,

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"oh wow, I can modify the code on the fly

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and see the results on the fly,"

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it was more difficult for them to give it a go.

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So I just... Because they,

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there are people who have not that big,

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that much experience with LaTeX

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and it can even be a bridge to introduce people into LaTeX.

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So, in any case, it was not very beginner-friendly

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and I had complaints on that.

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So, what I think was, we can do better.

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My first attempt was something that was completely neutral

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to Babel or Polyglossia.

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and it was made basically for font LaTeX

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although some of the things can... for lualatex

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and some of the things can also be used with xelatex.

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So overriding template fonts

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and taking into account fallback fonts

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was something that I learned

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when we started this conversation,

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and the only problem with this

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is that fallback fonts only work for lualatex

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because xelatex doesn't support them.

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Actually, fallback fonts is a lua feature.

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There was already something in the list

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regarding script detection which helped me a lot.

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So big recognition to Juan M. Macias for that,

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and for his publishing the algorithm or the script

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in the org mode mailing list.

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And then came my sort of little nightmare,

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which was when we started talking

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about internationalization or localization.

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Looking back, I have a very strange feeling

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about a blurring target there.

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Because the reality, being very, very frank, did I need it?

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Really no, because I just needed

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to add Spanish with Babel and that was it.

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Well actually for me it still is

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and you can put the British, German or Italian

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it continues to be true for me,

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so I had personally, I had little interest in doing that,

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but I took it as a challenge

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which has shown to be really tough.

NOTE What do you get from the feature branch?

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What do you get from the feature branch?

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The feature branch adds font management for fontspec,

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which is not strictly needed

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when you are on Latin, Cyrillic, and Greek scripts

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as long as the fonts in your template support them.

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But again, it's a nice way to get better support here.

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You don't need it if you're happy with the fonts you get

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from the templates that you use both for Beamer

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and the document classes in LaTeX.

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If you don't want to use alternative fonts,

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you don't need it, but you would need it.

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Of course, if you don't want things like,

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for example, emojis or need emojis,

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you really don't need fallback fonts.

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So my idea is that the next thing that you can add

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is Babel and Polyglossia here

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for enhanced localization and multilingual documents there.

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And at the end, my vision was that the keywords involved

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would be language, the main language.

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And then a nice idea from Ihor

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was to put all the secondary languages there too.

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Then specify the LaTeX compiler.

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Then what I've added is a keyword

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which is `#+LATEX_MULTI_LANG:`

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which can be fontspec or babel or polyglossia

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for localized documents.

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By default, this thing is nil and when it is nil,

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you get the behavior from Org Mode

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that you already are used to if you don't want to switch.

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Jing Huang was there and I was really,

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was chirped into the conversation

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and really helpful and a big thanks to him

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because he also had an easy idea

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to support Chinese and Japanese documents,

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so that the only thing that you need is to add the language

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that you're going to write your document in.

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Very, very big thank you for that,

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because that was really a challenge

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not being able to decipher

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what I was what I was coding there

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in terms of: I have a document,

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I copy and paste it from some place,

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and from there, I get my answer, I get my PDF,

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and I compare whether it is correct or not.

NOTE Behind the scenes: .dir-locals.el

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So what is behind the scenes?

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I've always suggested that in order

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to use the feature branch efficiently,

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you create a file with the default values

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you need for your variables,

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and that's this famous .dir-locals.el files.

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What I do is, I have a generic one

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in my home documents directory,

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and this is used for all the org documents

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that are in subdirectories from there.

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Why? Because normally you will not be

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changing your fonts that often,

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and if you need, you can always go

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and have your configuration locally.

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So it's this point where I'm collecting

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my font configuration and

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for me, this gives me a very, very nice quick start

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for new documents and presentations.

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And there you can even configure a lot of compiler

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and font language management too,

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so you have everything in a file.

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And the other nice thing for that

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is that you can also include that in a subdirectory.

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And if this subdirectory is something that you're sharing

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in a project with other people,

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you are already configuring the, say,

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quote, unquote, corporate look and feel for your documents

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in that project for everyone

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and no one else has to care about

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how this document has to be configured.

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One of the things that I really like in this approach

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is that it is a grow-as-you-go.

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So, for example, you can start with something like that,

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which is I have my fonts, my basic fonts for main,

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which is the serif font, for sans,

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which is the sans serif font, for maths,

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and for the mono, with some features like to make them scale.

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This is something that is provided by you

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through the fontspec package,

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and you're happy with it, and you work with it,

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and in a given moment,

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you go and you have your own problems

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or your own challenge,

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and you need to have, for example, emojis for one of the fonts,

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and what you do is, in this case, you just add the emojis

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as a fallback font in the font that where you want to replace this.

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This is what I'm doing right now for this presentation, and you will see...

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You can always, as I've said,

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you can always have your dir-locals,

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and you can copy that into a working directory

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which needs special adaptations or has special needs,

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and from there, you have that directory

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with your modified or customized dir-locals.el file.

NOTE When fontspec is not enough

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So, fontspec is normally enough,

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but sometimes, you can't control all the fonts

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with fontspec only, and there you have a polyglot here

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and babel coming to your help.

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This may also be the case

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that you are working in an intended language,

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I don't know which, but an intended language, and you found,

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and you wanted to see how that was configured,

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and you found the latest example

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that used Babel or Polyglossia.

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The exporter provides you variables

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to configure both fontspec, Polyglossia and Babel.

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So just as an example of how I picture this is,

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uh, you find it in the Internet,

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something like that, uh, something like this,

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because you have your document and you need Thai.

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So, and I found an example in the internet

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that tells me that I'm going to be using Babel.

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Main is going to be English.

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And I'm also going to have Thai.

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And then they tell me that, for English,

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I'm going to be using Noto Serif for the main,

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for the main of the serif font,

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Noto Sans for the sans font,

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and then when I'm writing things in Thai,

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I'm going to be using Noto Serif Thai and Noto Sans Thai.

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That's what I see in the Internet.

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So what you can always do, what you would do in this case,

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is I'm going to get and map the font configurations

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from the latest into this variable.

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Things that you have to take into account here

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is, for example, the language.

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The language here is Thai. You have the language

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that you're intending this font for is Thai.

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So this appears here. In case you don't have any language,

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like in the first two lines,

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you just say that the language is nil,

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which is the language for the default language.

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The other thing is in my example,

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in this example that I found in the Internet,

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I have my properties for the fonts in this part in LaTeX,

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and I put them as properties here.

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That's the whole idea behind the feature branch.

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The babelprovide part is generated or is also integrated

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from the Org header, mainly from the language line.

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We have a variable in case you need to tweak it,

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but normally the defaults provided by Org are good enough.

NOTE Rationale behind my take at LaTeX font management

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So what is the rationale behind my take at LaTeX font management?

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That's something that might be something very personal.

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When am I using fontspec?

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I'm using fontspec when I'm with Lua- or xelatex,

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and I want fonts that are different

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from those specified in the LaTeX class.

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That's point number one. I will also go for fontspec

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when I need to support scripts,

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but I'm missing in the fonts I use,

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and I can use fallback fonts for that. I have two.

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The only limitation I have here is the following:

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all languages must be left to right.

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And if you don't say anything at all,

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the LaTeX backend assumes that you want the dates,

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standard names for the abstract and so on

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in American English, if you're using them.

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In many cases, you're not using any sort of

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abstract, table of contents, and so on,

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and you don't need that.

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The important thing is maybe date management.

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If you need dates, headings

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or anything in any other language or locale,

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then yes, then you need to use Babel or Polyglossia.

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Choice, Depends. Can use polyglossia here,

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or you can use Babel, whatever you want.

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Also, in some cases, it will depend

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if you've been researching a bit

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of how this is done with pure LaTeX,

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it will be also depending on, uh,

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on the examples that you get.

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So, what can you, when you are using

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Babel or Polyglossia here, what do you have?

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You have your dates, your headings, and so on.

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You might need to control the text

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in the sense that what passage

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is written in what language.

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For example, for things like hyphenation

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and some ways of writing the hyphens in a

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and direct speech and things like that.

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And the other place where you need

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other Babel or Polyglossia here,

00:17:47.280 --> 00:17:50.439
and you will see that, because all examples

00:17:50.440 --> 00:17:53.319
that you can get for later, in this case,

00:17:53.320 --> 00:17:56.140
is when you have a language

00:17:56.141 --> 00:17:59.407
that uses right to left alignment

00:17:59.408 --> 00:18:06.439
like Arabic, Hebrew and others.

00:18:06.440 --> 00:18:14.479
So one note of, I would say, care is you always use the,

00:18:14.480 --> 00:18:16.639
if you use Unicode fonts

00:18:16.640 --> 00:18:19.719
that includes the scripts as you need,

00:18:19.720 --> 00:18:28.239
you will have done, that will be a great leap for you

00:18:28.240 --> 00:18:34.479
because that simplifies the configuration a lot.

NOTE Demonstrations

00:18:34.480 --> 00:18:36.839
Now, a couple of demos.

00:18:36.840 --> 00:18:39.319
I don't know if you've noticed

00:18:39.320 --> 00:18:43.199
first demo is that I'm using

00:18:43.200 --> 00:18:47.519
fonts that are not the official fonts

00:18:47.520 --> 00:18:48.959
in this Beamer template,

00:18:48.960 --> 00:18:51.399
which is by the way Boadilla.

00:18:51.400 --> 00:18:53.959
This would be the first thing.

00:18:53.960 --> 00:18:56.599
So I've been using other fonts,

00:18:56.600 --> 00:19:01.679
and they are, at least from what I get in class,

00:19:01.680 --> 00:19:03.759
they are more readable than the official...

00:19:03.760 --> 00:19:06.279
than the default fonts in Polyglossia,

00:19:06.280 --> 00:19:12.239
that you get in Babel for the Boadilla theme.

00:19:12.240 --> 00:19:14.319
Another thing is what I've told you,

00:19:14.320 --> 00:19:18.959
I have my own things like emojis.

00:19:18.960 --> 00:19:22.799
Now, if you allow me for a second,

00:19:22.800 --> 00:19:26.999
I'm going to switch to the Emacs

00:19:27.000 --> 00:19:36.759
which is running behind the scenes to show you what.

00:19:36.760 --> 00:19:42.119
Okay, fine. So, this is the presentation.

00:19:42.120 --> 00:19:44.799
that I have here, and as you see,

00:19:44.800 --> 00:19:54.839
I'm using Lua LaTeX and just fontspec,

00:19:54.840 --> 00:19:59.440
given I don't know why I would need this,

00:19:59.480 --> 00:20:01.079
this is an English presentation,

00:20:01.080 --> 00:20:03.039
but just to show you what you can do,

00:20:03.040 --> 00:20:09.359
if I go back here, and I go to the beginning of the presentation,

00:20:09.360 --> 00:20:11.171
and now what...

00:20:11.172 --> 00:20:12.940
[Ihor]: I don't think you're showing anything

00:20:12.941 --> 00:20:18.479
[Pedro]: Oh, thank you.

00:20:18.480 --> 00:20:21.399
Okay, this is the presentation, right?

00:20:21.400 --> 00:20:23.540
So what I'm going to do is, I'm going to go back

00:20:23.541 --> 00:20:31.200
and I'm going to show the full screen.

00:20:31.201 --> 00:20:32.639
And in this full screen,

00:20:32.640 --> 00:20:34.759
you see the presentation on one side

00:20:34.760 --> 00:20:40.599
and you see Emacs on the other side. Oh, still nothing.

00:20:40.600 --> 00:20:44.319
Yeah, we're not seeing your screen at the moment, sorry.

00:20:44.320 --> 00:20:47.719
Oh, thank you. Thank you for that.

00:20:47.720 --> 00:20:52.879
Now it's starting to come. Okay. Yay! Fine.

00:20:52.880 --> 00:21:00.399
So this presentation, I've done it with Lua LaTeX,

00:21:00.400 --> 00:21:06.439
and what I add here is fontspec and English language.

00:21:06.440 --> 00:21:10.240
Just to show you, but with the same configuration,

00:21:10.280 --> 00:21:11.839
with the same fontspec configuration,

00:21:11.840 --> 00:21:20.473
but adding Polyglossia.

00:21:20.474 --> 00:21:23.159
I just have enough with adding Polyglossia

00:21:23.160 --> 00:21:28.799
with the Spanish language to get my dates correctly,

00:21:28.800 --> 00:21:32.559
and this is something... I'm going to see the date in English,

00:21:32.560 --> 00:21:46.719
and if I now go and recompile it, in a couple of seconds,

00:21:46.720 --> 00:21:48.999
you will see that the date is in Spanish.

00:21:49.000 --> 00:21:53.879
We are using the same... Which I can show, by the way.

00:21:53.880 --> 00:21:58.079
I see just by adding polyglossia here,

00:21:58.080 --> 00:22:02.339
I can get my dates in Spanish.

00:22:02.340 --> 00:22:09.559
What... I have included the dir-locals

00:22:09.560 --> 00:22:16.959
in these lines, but just to discuss it a bit more.

00:22:16.960 --> 00:22:19.439
I have it for all the presentations.

00:22:19.440 --> 00:22:24.319
I think it was here. No. For the demo,

00:22:24.320 --> 00:22:28.799
for the presentations I use for Emacs conferences,

00:22:28.800 --> 00:22:33.959
I have it, and it's something like this.

00:22:33.960 --> 00:22:37.359
Actually, you don't need a fallback

00:22:37.360 --> 00:22:40.107
for the main font here

00:22:40.108 --> 00:22:44.607
because the presentations are done with the sans font,

00:22:44.608 --> 00:22:46.559
so the only thing that I would really need

00:22:46.560 --> 00:22:48.199
would be something like this.

00:22:48.200 --> 00:22:53.919
This can be commented, and the same happens here

00:22:53.920 --> 00:22:57.474
with the mono. This can be also commented.

NOTE Demo: Emoji

00:22:57.475 --> 00:23:00.399
The only thing where I would really need

00:23:00.400 --> 00:23:02.119
a fallback font is here,

00:23:02.120 --> 00:23:04.319
and what this is telling me is that

00:23:04.320 --> 00:23:07.079
you have a fallback for the emoji,

00:23:07.080 --> 00:23:09.799
for the emoji script,

00:23:09.800 --> 00:23:14.740
and you need to use the Apple Color Emoji font

00:23:14.741 --> 00:23:15.399
with a modifier,

00:23:15.400 --> 00:23:18.759
which in this case is that you need

00:23:18.760 --> 00:23:22.874
to have the Harfbuzz renderer.

00:23:22.875 --> 00:23:24.599
That's the only thing that you really need.

00:23:24.600 --> 00:23:26.679
Where do I get all these things from?

00:23:26.680 --> 00:23:29.039
All these things I get from the different parts

00:23:29.040 --> 00:23:33.179
and from different scripts in the Internet.

NOTE Demo: Letter

00:23:33.180 --> 00:23:38.039
I also have a couple of other things to show.

00:23:38.040 --> 00:23:42.919
For example, first of all, I do not need this.

00:23:42.920 --> 00:23:44.749
This is a letter that I've been writing this morning

00:23:44.750 --> 00:23:55.640
and I'm not using the feature branches at all,

00:23:55.641 --> 00:23:58.119
because I just needed a sans font,

00:23:58.120 --> 00:24:02.119
and it's going to be a letter that I'm writing in

00:24:02.120 --> 00:24:06.119
with the sans font, and the only thing I need

00:24:06.120 --> 00:24:08.679
was Spanish polyglossia for the date.

00:24:08.680 --> 00:24:14.719
Anyhow, how did... What was my first thing that I did

00:24:14.720 --> 00:24:19.639
with the back end? Back in I think it was April,

00:24:19.640 --> 00:24:23.079
we had a... this comes from the mailing list,

00:24:23.080 --> 00:24:26.759
we had someone who had this problem right,

00:24:26.760 --> 00:24:29.559
and he wanted to add emojis,

00:24:29.560 --> 00:24:33.039
and he had problems with the verbatim font,

00:24:33.040 --> 00:24:35.279
and that's how everything got started.

00:24:35.280 --> 00:24:43.859
If you now go and I get my LaTeX for that running.

00:24:43.860 --> 00:24:50.559
Well, I actually, all my LaTeX is supported for that.

00:24:50.560 --> 00:24:58.119
And this was what I showed in one of the Emacs, Org Mode meetups.

00:24:58.120 --> 00:25:00.079
And there you see that we have the emojis.

00:25:00.080 --> 00:25:06.879
We had the fonts for the different things. We had maps.

00:25:06.880 --> 00:25:13.799
And you could even go and add scripts

00:25:13.800 --> 00:25:16.319
and little passages and different scripts.

00:25:16.320 --> 00:25:22.359
And this was done with the same principles that I want.

00:25:22.360 --> 00:25:25.439
I have my main font. I have the emojis.

00:25:25.440 --> 00:25:30.559
and I want, I have my son's phone and I have the emojis,

00:25:30.560 --> 00:25:32.959
the Han for Japanese and the Kana for Japanese,

00:25:32.960 --> 00:25:36.799
so that these characters here,

00:25:36.800 --> 00:25:40.679
both in the sons and in the serif passages

00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:44.399
are included correctly in the PDF.

NOTE Demo: Side by side

00:25:44.400 --> 00:25:49.999
And a third thing of what you can do...

00:25:50.000 --> 00:25:53.439
I've also shown this, so this is more

00:25:53.440 --> 00:25:55.799
for people who have not seen it.

00:25:55.800 --> 00:26:01.399
This is a side-by-side passage of...

00:26:01.400 --> 00:26:04.919
well, actually, the beginning of the analysis by Xenophon

00:26:04.920 --> 00:26:12.919
both in in Greek and in German, with some comments.

00:26:12.920 --> 00:26:18.679
And if I go... This is done with Polyglossia.

00:26:18.680 --> 00:26:24.240
If I go once again and produce

00:26:24.241 --> 00:26:37.999
the PDF for this... Just a second...

00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:41.119
Come on. There you are. You get this.

00:26:41.120 --> 00:26:46.399
And there you see different fonts.

00:26:46.400 --> 00:26:48.239
Which fonts am I using for this?

00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:53.879
I'm using for the main font for me is FreeSerif.

00:26:53.880 --> 00:27:01.479
This listing is produced with DejaVu Sans Mono.

00:27:01.480 --> 00:27:12.899
And using Polyglossia here, I'm able to go and define

00:27:12.900 --> 00:27:15.799
the Greek polyton for the variant,

00:27:15.800 --> 00:27:18.799
for the serif variant with the Noto Serif font,

00:27:18.800 --> 00:27:26.199
just to differentiate it from the German text.

00:27:26.200 --> 00:27:30.279
And nice thing is that both in the German text

00:27:30.280 --> 00:27:37.359
you see for example here, and with the Greek text,

00:27:37.360 --> 00:27:40.879
everything is scaled to match

00:27:40.880 --> 00:27:44.119
the lower case of the main font, which is FreeSerif.

00:27:44.120 --> 00:27:45.879
So that everything looks

00:27:45.880 --> 00:27:49.359
extremely uniform and nice to read.

00:27:49.360 --> 00:27:53.759
So that's what you want to do.

00:27:53.760 --> 00:27:56.519
That's what you can do with this.

00:27:56.520 --> 00:28:12.599
Just a couple of final words on this.

NOTE Thanks

00:28:12.600 --> 00:28:16.839
I want to thank once again Juan Manuel Macias and Jing Huang

00:28:16.840 --> 00:28:19.919
for what they have shared.

00:28:19.920 --> 00:28:24.079
And I also want to thank everybody

00:28:24.080 --> 00:28:26.479
for productive contributions to the discussion.

00:28:26.480 --> 00:28:32.159
I'm saying this because I think I need a longer rest

00:28:32.160 --> 00:28:37.039
and I'm going to be leaving

00:28:37.040 --> 00:28:39.607
the feature font untouched for a couple of months

00:28:39.608 --> 00:28:42.220
so that people can take... the feature branch

00:28:42.221 --> 00:28:43.519
untouched for a couple of months

00:28:43.520 --> 00:28:47.599
to see if people want to use it, and how they want to use it,

00:28:47.600 --> 00:28:49.919
and then maybe in the future, we can discuss

00:28:49.920 --> 00:28:52.559
if we want to integrate it or not,

00:28:52.560 --> 00:29:24.839
or if people need it and all that. Now questions, comments?

00:29:24.840 --> 00:29:39.240
[Ihor]: I think there was one question on Etherpad for...

00:29:39.241 --> 00:29:47.119
[Pedro]: Beautiful. I think that goes beyond fonts right.

NOTE Q: What about video (mp4) support for ox-latex?

00:29:47.120 --> 00:29:52.839
Someone is asking what about how is about video

00:29:52.840 --> 00:29:56.319
mainly MP4 support on ox-latex.

00:29:56.320 --> 00:29:58.799
"I started the presentations with many videos.

00:29:58.800 --> 00:30:14.739
This is something that really pushed me back using ox-latex."

00:30:14.740 --> 00:30:18.799
What I would say to this is, I mean this goes beyond

00:30:18.800 --> 00:30:24.319
what we're discussing here with fonts.

00:30:24.320 --> 00:30:29.319
I would advise you to go and get the same

00:30:29.320 --> 00:30:35.239
or have the same thing that I did,

00:30:35.240 --> 00:30:42.279
which was, first of all, try to write it in LaTeX,

00:30:42.280 --> 00:30:49.599
and then, once you have the minimal working examples,

00:30:49.600 --> 00:30:53.159
you can get the LaTeX parts

00:30:53.160 --> 00:31:00.319
integrated into your own presentation.

00:31:00.320 --> 00:31:01.319
That's what I've been doing.

00:31:01.320 --> 00:31:04.519
By the way, I still do it, for example, not in this,

00:31:04.520 --> 00:31:06.079
but for my lectures,

00:31:06.080 --> 00:31:09.119
I have a lot of... I'm using a lot of ticks

00:31:09.120 --> 00:31:12.479
to do graphs and animated graphs.

00:31:12.480 --> 00:31:18.319
And that's `#+begin_export latex` `#+end_export` LaTeX.

00:31:18.320 --> 00:31:24.279
That's what I'm doing.

00:31:24.280 --> 00:31:27.274
[Ihor]: Videos are generally a bit tricky because you cannot...

00:31:27.275 --> 00:31:31.119
Not every viewer will play them.

00:31:31.120 --> 00:31:35.119
so I think there is something called pdfpc that can,

00:31:35.120 --> 00:31:37.399
this provides a LaTeX package

00:31:37.400 --> 00:31:39.079
where you can include videos,

00:31:39.080 --> 00:31:44.399
and then they can be played through that specific program.

00:31:44.400 --> 00:31:46.239
And JavaScript embedding,

00:31:46.240 --> 00:31:49.999
that can only be done through Acrobat Reader,

00:31:50.000 --> 00:31:54.519
which is like also finicky. Sure, yes.

00:31:54.520 --> 00:32:03.999
[Pedro]: As you said, there are many things that need to be changed.

00:32:04.000 --> 00:32:07.199
But I mean it's always a thing of taking it

00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:11.359
and trying to see what you can do

00:32:11.360 --> 00:32:13.319
and what the specifics are.

00:32:13.320 --> 00:32:17.079
Maybe this can be done with Acrobat

00:32:17.080 --> 00:32:23.959
and with a couple of extra packages and who knows.

00:32:23.960 --> 00:32:26.359
And you can always keep it as as LaTeX

00:32:26.360 --> 00:32:34.599
as fragments inside Org, I think. Any other questions?