path: root/2023/info/emacsen-after.md

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<a name="emacsen-mainVideo-transcript"></a>
# Transcript


Introduction

[[!template new="1" text="""Hello, my name is Fermin.""" start="00:00:00.000" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Today, I'm going to talk about the Emacsen family,""" start="00:00:03.200" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""the design of an Emacs, and the importance of Lisp.""" start="00:00:06.960" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So we're going to talk about Lisp.""" start="00:00:11.160" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""I want to start from the end.""" start="00:00:13.520" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]

Why Lisp matters

[[!template new="1" text="""The first question I want to ask is""" start="00:00:17.000" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""why I think Lisp matters.""" start="00:00:19.040" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""When I'm talking about Lisp here,""" start="00:00:21.400" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""I'm talking about the idea of Lisp,""" start="00:00:22.880" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""so the family of languages that are Lisp.""" start="00:00:27.560" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""But given that there's no formal specification of Lisp,""" start="00:00:30.120" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""so the opinion might vary. I will expect that Lisp,""" start="00:00:34.720" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""most of the Lisp have these kind of features.""" start="00:00:40.600" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""The first one is homoiconic:""" start="00:00:44.440" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""the code is data, basically.""" start="00:00:46.240" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""They also have a REPL: read-eval-print loop.""" start="00:00:49.800" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""That is very powerful and can help in development.""" start="00:00:52.560" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Also, I think a good Lisp""" start="00:00:57.760" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""should have a powerful macro system.""" start="00:01:00.360" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""I'm good with compile-time macros,""" start="00:01:03.320" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""but read-time is also interesting.""" start="00:01:05.760" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""There's a lot of Lisp that you can choose.""" start="00:01:07.600" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""There's the main three ones, of course,""" start="00:01:10.280" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""with Scheme, Common Lisp, and Clojure.""" start="00:01:12.000" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Scheme by Guile, Common Lisp by Common Lisp,""" start="00:01:13.840" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and Clojure by Clojure or ClojureScript.""" start="00:01:19.675" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]

Why Emacs Lisp was chosen

[[!template new="1" text="""So let's talk about Emacs Lisp.""" start="00:01:26.640" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""I didn't mention Emacs Lisp.""" start="00:01:28.080" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""I'm going to talk about why Emacs Lisp""" start="00:01:29.680" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""was chosen for an Emacs editor.""" start="00:01:32.520" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""We're going to explore this kind of design of the Emacs.""" start="00:01:35.600" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""And Emacs Lisp is the main language of it. Why?""" start="00:01:39.160" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Given that there were a few alternatives at the time,""" start="00:01:42.280" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""why Emacs Lisp was chosen?""" start="00:01:44.960" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So RMS, Richard Stallman, needed a Lisp,""" start="00:01:48.160" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and there wasn't one available at the time.""" start="00:01:51.920" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Keep in mind, this was the early 80s.""" start="00:01:54.280" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Stallman was writing at that point the GCC, I think,""" start="00:01:57.040" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and he was writing the core components""" start="00:02:03.241" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""of what is going to become GNU.""" start="00:02:07.975" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""He needed an editor. He wanted Lisp. He wanted Emacs.""" start="00:02:10.441" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So he wrote Emacs Lisp. So at that time,""" start="00:02:15.500" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""the functionality was more important than &quot;perfection.&quot;""" start="00:02:20.281" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""What I mean [by] &quot;perfection&quot; is: we programmers""" start="00:02:24.600" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""sometimes like to make everything good""" start="00:02:26.640" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""or very, very good when sometimes, indeed,""" start="00:02:33.360" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""it's more important that it works""" start="00:02:36.480" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""to do the task that it should.""" start="00:02:39.120" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""And it's not a bad language.""" start="00:02:42.920" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It's not that bad. At that time, it was mostly nice.""" start="00:02:44.200" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Today, it's good enough, I think.""" start="00:02:50.240" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]

Other "Emacsen"

[[!template new="1" text="""He wasn't the first one, the GNU Emacs,""" start="00:02:54.841" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""nor the only one, of course.""" start="00:02:59.461" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""There were others: Hemlock, Zmacs, and Climacs...""" start="00:03:02.541" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Two of them, I think, were written in Common Lisp,""" start="00:03:06.440" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and Zmacs was written in a Lisp from a Lisp machine,""" start="00:03:08.981" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""so it was an implementation of Emacs.""" start="00:03:14.480" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Not GNU Emacs, but the original idea""" start="00:03:16.640" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""of Emacs for a Lisp machine.""" start="00:03:19.040" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So Hemlock was written in Common Lisp,""" start="00:03:22.080" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""but it's no longer used and no longer developed,""" start="00:03:23.760" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""as far as I know. And Climacs, it was developed,""" start="00:03:26.080" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""but it was abandoned, I think.""" start="00:03:29.000" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So three of them failed for different reasons.""" start="00:03:31.520" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Zmacs was because of the Lisp machine market crash,""" start="00:03:33.640" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and yeah, it also failed.""" start="00:03:37.880" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]

Why not Common Lisp?

[[!template new="1" text="""So Emacs got alone. And in the 90s, interesting to explore,""" start="00:03:38.581" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""some people suggest that why""" start="00:03:44.040" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""now that we have a standard Lisp, right,""" start="00:03:46.480" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""because Common Lisp was standardized in '94,""" start="00:03:49.680" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""why don't we change Emacs Lisp to Common Lisp?""" start="00:03:52.560" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""These are the other reasons I think are important,""" start="00:03:56.720" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""because that's why Stallman didn't choose Common Lisp.""" start="00:03:59.000" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""But I think the main one""" start="00:04:01.160" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""that I didn't write here""" start="00:04:02.040" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""is that Stallman wasn't a big fan of Common Lisp,""" start="00:04:03.760" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and he was at the time the main developer""" start="00:04:09.040" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and maintainer, of course, for Emacs.""" start="00:04:12.680" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So he chose not to move to Common Lisp.""" start="00:04:14.041" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""But other reasons may be why...""" start="00:04:16.440" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Because he had a late and painful standardization.""" start="00:04:18.480" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Keep in mind, the first book that Guy Steele wrote""" start="00:04:22.920" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""was in 1984. The standardization finished in 19--""" start="00:04:28.040" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""sorry, in 1984 was the first book""" start="00:04:32.240" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and the standardization finished in 1994.""" start="00:04:38.280" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So, like, 10 years of difference from one to the other.""" start="00:04:44.421" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""10 years of a lot of talk, a lot of money,""" start="00:04:48.120" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and a lot of pain probably.""" start="00:04:51.880" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""The Lisp usage declined in the 90s""" start="00:04:56.400" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""due to the AI winter.""" start="00:04:59.200" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""We all know about the Lisp machine market crash.""" start="00:05:00.960" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""And the failure of commercial Lisp machine was""" start="00:05:03.360" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""inevitable at that point.""" start="00:05:08.840" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So all the potential Emacs friends died.""" start="00:05:12.240" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""And also a lot of Emacs Lisp was already available.""" start="00:05:17.161" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Emacs was already an amateur utility.""" start="00:05:21.280" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Unix won the war of the operating system, as we know,""" start="00:05:24.560" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and Emacs Lisp was available in Unix,""" start="00:05:29.960" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""or in GNU/Linux, as we know,""" start="00:05:33.840" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""which is the most successful implementation of Unix.""" start="00:05:36.920" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Sorry, BSD. Okay.""" start="00:05:40.480" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So Emacs won by being the &quot;better&quot; alternative.""" start="00:05:44.208" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""I'm quoting &quot;better&quot; here because""" start="00:05:48.400" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""I think Emacs does have a better design""" start="00:05:50.000" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and, well, it was the one that survived, right?""" start="00:05:53.700" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Which is the more important thing for a software or,""" start="00:05:56.960" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""you know... So Emacs won by being free,""" start="00:06:00.040" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""also in price, which I think the Lisp machine wasn't.""" start="00:06:05.160" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So that was also very good. It was included.""" start="00:06:08.400" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It had, and it still has, of course,""" start="00:06:11.520" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""a nice collection of packages""" start="00:06:14.560" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""that improve the standard functionality.""" start="00:06:15.880" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It was easy to extend because of the nature of Lisp.""" start="00:06:20.680" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""And it has a very good integration with GNU/Linux,""" start="00:06:23.480" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""of course. It was created to write it.""" start="00:06:26.040" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It makes sense that it's very good""" start="00:06:29.400" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""for a system administration perspective.""" start="00:06:31.080" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]

Common Lisp is still not dead or is always dead

[[!template new="1" text="""But I think Common Lisp is not dead yet.""" start="00:06:39.120" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Or some people say that it's always dead,""" start="00:06:43.320" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""so you cannot kill the something that is always dead.""" start="00:06:45.720" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So I don't always code in C,""" start="00:06:48.400" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""but when I do, it's Lisp. I'm not a big fan of C""" start="00:06:50.720" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""for a lot of things, but yeah.""" start="00:06:54.200" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Why I think Common Lisp is still relevant""" start="00:06:58.600" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and can be used for all kind of application,""" start="00:07:02.440" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""both commercially and non-commercially.""" start="00:07:05.400" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""The first one is the main implementation""" start="00:07:09.280" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""of Common Lisp, which is called SBCL, which is awesome.""" start="00:07:11.840" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It's fast. It's a very good extension.""" start="00:07:16.800" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Basically, it's the reference one today.""" start="00:07:19.400" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""The namespaces of common Lisp,""" start="00:07:21.640" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""I really like the implementation.""" start="00:07:25.560" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Some people don't like it. It's a matter of taste.""" start="00:07:26.880" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""But I think it's really good.""" start="00:07:28.720" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""I have a timeless standard. So it was standardized""" start="00:07:29.640" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""in the 90s, as I said.""" start="00:07:32.920" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""And it doesn't really need a new standard.""" start="00:07:35.980" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Some people say it does need, but I don't think so.""" start="00:07:38.881" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Also it does have macro readers,""" start="00:07:44.120" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""which I think is a very nice feature of Common Lisp""" start="00:07:46.000" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""that other Lisp doesn't seem to have,""" start="00:07:49.160" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""or a lot of them don't: in my mind, Emacs Lisp and Clojure.""" start="00:07:51.240" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Also, it's image-based development,""" start="00:07:56.720" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""which is also quite unique to Common Lisp.""" start="00:07:58.200" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""I don't know all the Lisp that does have this.""" start="00:08:00.400" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Basically, you develop a REPL""" start="00:08:04.360" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and then you dump the entire REPL into an image.""" start="00:08:05.360" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Java would be like a core dump.""" start="00:08:10.160" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""And you create an executable.""" start="00:08:12.080" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Which at the time, I guess in the 90s,""" start="00:08:14.160" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""was a huge one, right?""" start="00:08:17.160" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Because you have the entire language, and the REPL,""" start="00:08:18.200" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and the code. But today are like 20 MB,""" start="00:08:20.680" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""which in today's standard is nothing.""" start="00:08:23.800" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""There's pictures in your phone larger than 20 MB.""" start="00:08:26.600" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]

Lem is a nice Emacsen implementation

[[!template new="1" text="""So there's a new Emacs in town--well, Emacs, not Emacs,""" start="00:08:30.080" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Which is Lem. I think it's a very good Emacs implementation.""" start="00:08:39.240" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""What I mean by &quot;Emacs&quot; here is not a clone of GNU Emacs,""" start="00:08:43.440" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""but an Emacs-inspired editor with similar characteristics,""" start="00:08:46.680" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and written in a Lisp,""" start="00:08:51.560" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""which is why I said that Lisp was very important.""" start="00:08:53.520" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]

Why not just use GNU Emacs?

[[!template new="1" text="""So first, I'm going to address the elephant in the room,""" start="00:08:58.260" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and the question that maybe most""" start="00:09:01.560" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""of you are now thinking.""" start="00:09:05.040" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Why not just use GNU Emacs? It's the project.""" start="00:09:06.160" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It's the main one, right? Why choose another one?""" start="00:09:12.920" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So Lem is relatively new, 2018.""" start="00:09:15.760" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""And it can explore different ideas.""" start="00:09:18.200" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It was developed by Sasaki-san.""" start="00:09:20.200" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Basically, it was mostly a one-month project,""" start="00:09:21.680" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""but we are getting there. I'm not the maintainer.""" start="00:09:26.720" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""I'm a developer of Lem. So given that it's""" start="00:09:31.941" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""relatively new, it can explore different ideas.""" start="00:09:36.960" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""You're not bound to a community or backwards compatibility.""" start="00:09:39.240" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""You can explore different ideas,""" start="00:09:43.520" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and I think that's always nice.""" start="00:09:45.440" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Having multiple options creates competition,""" start="00:09:46.200" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""which benefits the community. So Emacs and Vim,""" start="00:09:49.840" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""the competition between the two""" start="00:09:52.640" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""always create nice packages like evil or, you know...""" start="00:09:54.840" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It's really good to have some kind of a competition,""" start="00:09:59.120" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""healthy competition.""" start="00:10:03.720" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""And it doesn't share any code base with GNU Emacs.""" start="00:10:06.160" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""I want to clarify this because some people think that""" start="00:10:08.200" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Lem is kind of a, you know, Spacemacs or Doom.""" start="00:10:12.880" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""No, it doesn't share any code.""" start="00:10:16.120" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It has zero Emacs. So that's it.""" start="00:10:19.960" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Getting this out of the way.""" start="00:10:27.760" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Why I think Lem is interesting.""" start="00:10:29.200" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]

Why Lem

[[!template new="1" text="""I'm going to show why Lem.""" start="00:10:31.080" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Why? You can try Lem, and maybe you like it.""" start="00:10:32.360" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""First thing, these are the features""" start="00:10:37.760" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""that I really like from it.""" start="00:10:41.320" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Can be different from person to person,""" start="00:10:42.800" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""but I think these are the main ideas""" start="00:10:45.575" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""it brings to the table and are really interesting.""" start="00:10:48.280" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""I want to say that Lem is not a research project.""" start="00:10:50.000" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It's not like some people did that""" start="00:10:53.120" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and it's still in development. No, no.""" start="00:10:55.720" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""This is a usable product that can be used""" start="00:10:57.240" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""to [do] day-to-day programming""" start="00:11:00.040" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""in a very good experience.""" start="00:11:02.040" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""This is not like--I want to clarify this""" start="00:11:04.560" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""because some people bring some exploratory projects.""" start="00:11:06.280" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""This is not that one. This is finished.""" start="00:11:08.720" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Well, finished in the way that you can use it.""" start="00:11:10.800" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It's not, you know, have everything in place.""" start="00:11:14.720" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So let's continue.""" start="00:11:17.800" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It's written 100% in Common Lisp.""" start="00:11:20.640" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""I say this because Emacs is not""" start="00:11:22.160" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""100% in Emacs Lisp.""" start="00:11:23.840" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""You have to modify the C code,""" start="00:11:26.280" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""I think, well, if you... You don't have to,""" start="00:11:28.360" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""but if you want to change the internals, you do.""" start="00:11:31.840" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""I think that given that Lem does not care""" start="00:11:34.000" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""about the implementation of the language itself--""" start="00:11:38.880" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""so for example, Lem doesn't have to deal with""" start="00:11:41.200" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""how Common Lisp works, it just used the language, right?""" start="00:11:44.040" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It's on top of the language.""" start="00:11:48.200" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""You can say that. Emacs Lisp is Emacs and Emacs Lisp,""" start="00:11:50.800" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""so you have to, you have both in the same place,""" start="00:11:53.880" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""which is, well, it's a double-edged sword, right?""" start="00:11:56.080" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Then you have the both--similar to Emacs--""" start="00:12:00.320" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""you have ncurses and SDL2 frontends.""" start="00:12:03.320" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""One is terminal-based and the other is graphical""" start="00:12:05.640" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""using the SDL2 library,""" start="00:12:08.720" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""which you can do a lot of crazy things.""" start="00:12:10.400" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Of course, it's meant to program games and stuff,""" start="00:12:13.760" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""but Lem uses, and it works fairly well.""" start="00:12:16.160" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""You can program games if you want.""" start="00:12:19.680" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Not that you need to or anything, but we have Tetris.""" start="00:12:21.880" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So there's that.""" start="00:12:27.560" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Also, separate front-end interface.""" start="00:12:29.000" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So like I said, you have two, but you can create more.""" start="00:12:31.720" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""In the past, had an electron one,""" start="00:12:34.160" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""but it got abandoned for obvious reasons, I think. Sorry.""" start="00:12:36.440" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""This idea is taken from Neovim that had a lot of frontends.""" start="00:12:41.320" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""In fact, we don't have that many,""" start="00:12:45.840" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""but not that many people we have two.""" start="00:12:48.120" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""That works fairly well.""" start="00:12:49.640" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""We have superb development experience thanks to SLIME.""" start="00:12:51.675" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So we have Micro,""" start="00:12:56.680" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""which is a SLIME version for Lem, basically.""" start="00:13:01.320" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""SLIME is awesome and Micro is also awesome.""" start="00:13:04.040" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""We have a very strong development experience""" start="00:13:09.000" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""that we don't have for a Lisp,""" start="00:13:12.320" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""which I think is very important.""" start="00:13:15.400" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""If you want someone to develop packages or to use your tool,""" start="00:13:17.400" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""your Emacs at least,""" start="00:13:20.320" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""you need to have a very good development experience,""" start="00:13:22.720" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""which enhance the extensions for the editor.""" start="00:13:28.760" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So we have also Vim-like integration.""" start="00:13:34.040" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""This for me was mostly mandatory""" start="00:13:36.720" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""because I'm an evil-mode user, and I think it's really good.""" start="00:13:39.400" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Because evil-mode is very good and the VMode,""" start="00:13:44.440" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""which it's called, even though it's more like Vim mode,""" start="00:13:49.480" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""it's called VMode. It's written by""" start="00:13:51.720" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Fukamachi-san and it's really good.""" start="00:13:54.160" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So yeah, that's the thing that I think Lem brings to""" start="00:13:59.160" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""the table and that's really interesting.""" start="00:14:01.960" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]

Similarities and differences

[[!template new="1" text="""So I'm going to do a small demo of Lem, a Emacs example.""" start="00:14:03.080" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""First, the similarities,""" start="00:14:10.520" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""the nomenclature is very similar: modes, buffers,""" start="00:14:11.680" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""commands... The commands are very similar in nature.""" start="00:14:14.120" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It was written with GNU Emacs in mind""" start="00:14:17.440" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""to mimic a lot of things.""" start="00:14:20.040" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""I think GNU Emacs is the best Emacs implementation""" start="00:14:24.360" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""in that way. So why not just take what is working, right?""" start="00:14:29.080" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""I have similar command,""" start="00:14:33.720" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""but flexible to add other default ones.""" start="00:14:35.600" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It's not like Emacs that you have Emacs commands.""" start="00:14:39.400" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Lem has Emacs command by default,""" start="00:14:42.400" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""but you can easily change that""" start="00:14:45.160" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""with other default ones, right?""" start="00:14:47.760" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It's like, you can think of it like a major mode, right?""" start="00:14:49.920" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Well, more like a global mode,""" start="00:14:52.160" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""sorry. That's a global mode of Emacs commands,""" start="00:14:54.440" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""or something like that.""" start="00:14:57.961" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""In general, the feeling is really close.""" start="00:14:59.361" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So you will tell that it's really close to how both work,""" start="00:15:01.520" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""similar commands, and that shows.""" start="00:15:05.920" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Differences, Common Lisp is not Emacs Lisp,""" start="00:15:07.840" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""it's similar in the surface.""" start="00:15:12.360" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So it uses `defun`, you know, have parentheses""" start="00:15:13.920" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and yada, yada, but it's not the same language, really,""" start="00:15:16.280" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and sometimes you will find""" start="00:15:18.720" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""that the differences are substantial.""" start="00:15:20.840" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""The internals are completely different,""" start="00:15:23.260" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""of course, nothing, well, completely.""" start="00:15:24.860" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""They have a buffer implementation and other things,""" start="00:15:27.480" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""but in general, yeah, aside from that,""" start="00:15:29.720" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""it's completely different.""" start="00:15:32.360" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""And it's true that GNU Emacs""" start="00:15:34.080" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""has a better documentation tutorial.""" start="00:15:36.200" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So GNU Emacs for me, I think it's""" start="00:15:37.480" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""one of the best-documented software ever.""" start="00:15:39.720" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""We're trying to go there, but we're still not there.""" start="00:15:41.760" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]

Demo

[[!template new="1" text="""Let's do the demo. So to open Lem, you compile it,""" start="00:15:49.600" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and then you have it available,""" start="00:15:54.080" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and you open Lem. As you can see,""" start="00:15:55.760" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""we have the temporary buffer. On the top left is the mode--""" start="00:15:57.720" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""not mode,""" start="00:16:00.840" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""the beam, insert, normal, visual. This is the V mode, right?""" start="00:16:03.280" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""In the top right corner, we have fundamental,""" start="00:16:07.240" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""which is the major mode, then paredit,""" start="00:16:10.280" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""which is like the minor mode, but you know,""" start="00:16:11.600" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""this is like the paredit for Emacs.""" start="00:16:15.080" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""In the top left buffer,""" start="00:16:16.080" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""you have the current buffer.""" start="00:16:19.200" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So let's open the... Emacs, we all know how to do this.""" start="00:16:22.480" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""This is a command, like explore this command,""" start="00:16:26.480" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""like `open-init-file`. This opens the init file,""" start="00:16:29.320" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""which is in this directory, in `~/.lem/init.lisp`.""" start="00:16:31.480" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""As you can see, this is very similar, right?""" start="00:16:34.320" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""You define a command, which is not interactive,""" start="00:16:38.240" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and then you get the buffer, right?""" start="00:16:40.280" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""This is a... So my personal command...""" start="00:16:42.960" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Let's go to the one that I just opened. Init file, right?""" start="00:16:44.920" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So this is a command that I did,""" start="00:16:48.880" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""which is `find-file`.""" start="00:16:52.160" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""This is very similar to [??], but just `find-file`.""" start="00:16:53.440" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""As you can see, very similar.""" start="00:16:56.600" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""This is the way that you program in Lem.""" start="00:16:58.400" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""This is the major mode, which is Lisp,""" start="00:17:01.760" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""that we're seeing at the top, right?""" start="00:17:04.840" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""And we can connect if we `slime-self-connect`.""" start="00:17:06.960" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""This is the prompt. This is the REPL.""" start="00:17:10.480" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So if we... Keep in mind that this is Common Lisp,""" start="00:17:14.120" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""so this has different things.""" start="00:17:17.960" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So we have to go to the Lem package,""" start="00:17:20.440" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""which is very important. This has namespaces, right?""" start="00:17:22.720" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It's not the same. And we can say, okay,""" start="00:17:26.200" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""`current-buffer`. We get the buffer.""" start="00:17:29.040" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""We can explore everything that is in it, right?""" start="00:17:32.320" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""We have all this stuff. This is... If you're familiar""" start="00:17:35.200" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""with SLIME or Sly, this is it.""" start="00:17:38.560" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""It's just that we can say, buffer, I think it's `buffer-name`.""" start="00:17:41.160" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Yes. And we can take this,""" start="00:17:46.280" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and then we'll give you the name.""" start="00:17:49.160" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So as you can see, the development experience""" start="00:17:50.800" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""is really powerful. We can also `lisp-scratch`,""" start="00:17:54.360" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""which transform... basically apply""" start="00:17:57.640" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""the major mode of Lisp to the temporary buffer.""" start="00:18:00.680" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""This is very similar to Emacs.""" start="00:18:02.640" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Let's go back to the theme. I think that's it.""" start="00:18:06.720" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Thank you all very much for listening to me.""" start="00:18:12.000" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""I think I point out""" start="00:18:13.880" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""the Emacsen family is really interesting.""" start="00:18:15.240" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""Lisp is really good, and GNU Emacs is really good,""" start="00:18:17.000" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""and I think Lem is also pretty awesome.""" start="00:18:19.280" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""So thank you all very much.""" start="00:18:21.200" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]
[[!template text="""I'll be answering the question now. And happy hacking.""" start="00:18:23.120" video="mainVideo-emacsen" id="subtitle"]]



Captioner: sachac

Questions or comments? Please e-mail [emacsconf-org-private@gnu.org](mailto:emacsconf-org-private@gnu.org?subject=Comment%20for%20EmacsConf%202023%20emacsen%3A%20The%20Emacsen%20family%2C%20the%20design%20of%20an%20Emacs%20and%20the%20importance%20of%20Lisp)


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