path: root/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-windows--windows-into-freedom--corwin-brust--main.vtt

WEBVTT

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Oh, wow, how exciting. Well, maybe I should share something then. Um, well, thank you very much and welcome to uh

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Welcome to my talk i'm a little distracted here

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I had a friend who came over and just brought me a whole bunch of peanut butter cups homemade peanut butter cups

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Maybe i'll show those off. Uh

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later

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Okay, what okay here, uh, put it right there

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All good stuff

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Okay, so i'm going to uh get over to my planned uh stuff i'm sharing here

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hopefully

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Uh, and and we'll jump jump right in because i'm gonna need as much time as I can possibly have today

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thanks so much for uh joining me for emacs conference and for

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especially for

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um

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all of you who who participated, you know in the discussions contributing talks and

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um, you know, uh, you know, including running the copy the the and it's just so much fun to be here, um

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I guess while i'm standing here and and saying stuff that's that i'm gonna have to

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transcribe because I didn't uh prepare a

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recorded version

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Uh, I had a lot of trouble trimming this down so I can solve that problem by just talking a lot at the beginning

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about other stuff, um

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So in addition to the thanks I just want to say thanks also to the

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Folks on the development list that helped me kind of come up to speed on this. I won't make a big list here. But

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um

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And and for all that i've learned from my previous conferences

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It's just I can't stress enough what a great opportunity volunteering for

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uh free software related things are

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Uh as a way to get involved people will just totally teach you how to be helpful and i'm loving it

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Sasha can you please maximize?

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Hold on

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I can preview the stream, but it's not super easy right now

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I got all my screens kind of dedicated to other stuff

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so should I pause for a second before I get into the slides because there's

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There they'll be hard to see if i'm not full screen

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Yeah, yeah, okay, well i'll keep ad-libbing then because I just have a million, uh things I can say, um

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Uh, so, uh, let me just quickly talk, uh things that aren't in here. Um,

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I'm going to mention the mysis2.org and the that project which provides a port

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of the GNU

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Of uh glibc and a lot of GNU

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and other free software

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um, so

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Uh, I don't pushing a room to uh a dvd room to stefan

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All right, so i'm gonna take mumble out of my uh, pardon me folks just gonna take mumble out of my speakers here

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Okay

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Okay, in fact we'll take the speakers out of play entirely and i'll just switch to some headphones

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All right, so

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Gorman you're good to go

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Perfect. What an amazing amount of time. All right. So thanks a lot. Uh today i've got a jam-packed talk

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Um, i've i've done my best to make

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To make this not too overwhelming, but overall we're going to try to try to actually build

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Um emacs while we're talking today and we might actually build several emacs

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Uh, so let's take a look at that real quick

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Um, so over here we have a screen where I am

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Just once a minute looking. Uh

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Indirectly at whether there have been any pushes, uh upstream to either the emacs 29 or emacs 30 branches

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so i've

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Arranged for us to sort of keep an eye on that

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Um while we talk and you know, maybe that's that's one thing that we'll do and then additionally we'll probably

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Fire up a shell. This is the mysis 2 environment that I talked about before

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And we'll probably create some directories and things

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But before we get into all that let's let's give some some context. I've been doing my best to try to

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Uh, make sure all this information is on the emacs wiki as well

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So, uh, sorry, as I said, I got a little caught off guard. So i'm moving my foot pedals

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To the float back to the floor here

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And I should be able to advance slides here. All right, so

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um

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I kind of provided some special definitions for things i'm going to kind of level set with those

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the uh

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Um when I say a binary release i'm talking about some some i'm talking about emacs for windows as

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Just ready to run out of its folder or in whatever similar form

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The when I say a build i'm talking about kind of a process of doing that

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Um when emacs.get of course, that's the upstream hosted by gnu savannah

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The emacs release is a tarball created from that the sources

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For um emacs are going to be one of those two things

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Um very specifically so i'm not going to talk about patches patching there's some implications there perhaps we'll get into it

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uh

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So a snapshot is when I build from anything other than a release source

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uh a tarball

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um, just if I if I say that i'm talking specifically

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about the uh, the xz

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Version of the file as as a technical point

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Um, so that may come up. All right, nothing else I think up my sleeve. Um

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the

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Uh as as a key data point it's worth understanding that there's a file called configure ac

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It's going to be processed, uh as part of autoconf. We we initially access that when we run

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Um autogen as you'll see in a little bit

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um

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The but before but um, so the autogen script will generally consider this. Uh, so in a release build

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Um, this has been thought about kind of for us as part of um making the tarball

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um the configure dot a

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ac

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um

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Yeah, I think I pretty much covered covered this so

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Um those those that kind of partially built status that's a might be another phrase that you hear me use

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so this

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Slide unpacks that a little more

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Um

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So it can be a little confusing to understand what exactly?

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the you know, what is it, you know, how stable is emacs depending on what I have so that I got a

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It's kind of a set of rules of thumb here right first I want the highest, uh, you know dot

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Uh dot release value that I can get assuming that that's higher than one

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If it's if it were to only be one, let's say my choices were 29.1 and 30.1

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I would take 30.1

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um

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because that's that's weird, but um

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What you'll normally see is you might see a 28.2

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You might see a 29.1

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So here I think 28.2 has got the most most most stable

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um

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set, uh the

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uh, or set of release binaries

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the

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29.1 will will have a little more features, but will tend to be more stable

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than

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Any lower point releases for 29

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Uh, certainly than any release candidates for 29, which might even have new features

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Um, but are mostly going to just be patches so they're going to become the most stable

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thing here

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and especially if they they have a

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You know if this this is not

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Uh, if this were to be 29.2 release candidate one as well looking forward to seeing

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um

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the

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30.0.50

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um

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And and in between this this pre-test here, we're talking about kind of developer land. Um, so

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Um, the expectation is that you know what you're doing that applies to windows users

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Uh just as much if you are building anything in the snapshot range any of that is going to be in this

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30.0.50 currently that'll change when

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the

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when the

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30 30 an emacs 30 release tags, uh, or release branches come

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Okay, so

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Let's talk about the local um, there's not much to know about what I have going on

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except that I have my my paths mess messed with so

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Um, if if that that were to come up if you're wondering how why does this?

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Uh in in sys command work that's that's probably the way place where you notice it

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Uh, I am using windows 10. I haven't tried windows 11

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Uh as mentioned my sys2 is critical to all this

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There's one script in particular that will error out if you try to do anything other than use my sys's

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My sys's shell and in fact my sys owns

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Or provides three shells and of them that script is designed to work with a specific one of them as we'll come to

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I don't talk about installing the dependencies, but just as as kind of some kind of help. Um,

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You can search using this formula and install

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Using this formula good luck with those, you know grep commands

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And sys is the tool for building the self-installing self-extracting installer or uh executable self-installer

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Um, the script for that is provided along with the emac source

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Um, and i've provided a helpful link to the main page for the project download link on the left. It is not

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It's kind of scare where the way that this link appears, but I have clicked it and it's working for me

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Automation does uh, we'll we have some time we'll be looking at this at a minimum

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I wanted to mention that what I do on my local what you're seeing in the crawler, I hope

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uh represents a

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uh

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A simple sleep loop, uh, and we'll we'll look into that if we have time

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Um, I do have a little but I do use like a cron job and so on to clean up some hosting that I pay for

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Um where i've got where I where I kind of self-host

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some uh snapshots

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more stuff than I feel comfortable uploading to

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uh, to gnu

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The um

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You know, I never said, uh, my name is corwin bruce for the last couple of years i've been the volunteer making

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Uh making the snapshots the quote-unquote official binaries, uh for windows of the

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um

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Of of emacs for windows. So that's that's all the different versions. Uh help is always welcome with that

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I'd be very happy to teach you in more depth. This video is

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You know kind of my drop dead file. Uh, I don't have specific plans. Uh, if somebody's like hey get out of the way

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This is the one thing I think I can do

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Um, hey, that's real relatable

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Okay, um, so I haven't tried uh, the I haven't tried a lot of fun things that I won't talk about

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um, the uh, the rest of this talk is going to get into the nitty-gritty as I said, um

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If we can't convince emacs to start building over on that screen, we'll be opening it up here on the center stage

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um

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Uh, this begins and there's there's there's there's great insight here too on the wiki, uh

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With picking an ftp source for any official release

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That is for a stable product. Please visit

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Um ftp.gnu.org

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Otherwise, you'll want to switch that ftp dot at the beginning to alpha dot and take a pre-test

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Uh, or any snapshot or otherwise then they're not published there

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The uh next

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uh, you know

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i'm gonna you have some examples in here that assume that you're doing a release build that you're doing 29.1, but

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um, i'm glancing out of the the right side of my face at the

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Chat on the optance anybody in there wants to direct me at a particular

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Um, we can make some other we can build something

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Else if you want to see a snapshot build more mention that um the examples that you're going to see here

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That I will without other direction cut and paste

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um

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Are all based on a release bill

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so

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Um, and so, uh, we'll use the uh, I mentioned that there are several shells provided by mysis2

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To the min-gw64

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Shell is the one that we mostly need

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Um, I tested all of this as well with the min-gw32 shell

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um

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So that that should work and and see mix binaries that that work for me

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Uh

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I as I mentioned, I don't get into the details of installing all your prerequisites

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I found that doing it in a headfirst manner wasn't uh,

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Wasn't difficult and I also found that there's a number of tutorials. I didn't want to pick one to link here

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Um there uh

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Here are uh, okay, so

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Our general formula for building emacs irrespective of windows

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looks like

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Does the configure script exist if not run autogen?

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from a windows build standpoint

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This is if i'm not running a release that release build call the autogen script

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Right and this would be in the directory where we want to pack this i'll demonstrate

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within

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three minutes if uh

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If one if nobody's pushed upstream to emacs

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um

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so, uh the configure, uh, and

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configure options

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are uh

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Uh the configure, you know if the configure sorry if the configure script exists then

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Uh doesn't doesn't exist. So the only reason so in my process I will always execute that step because I clean everything

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after every build, um in all my contexts

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um, however, if you were you know had a

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Checkout of emacs dot get and you are building it at several releases

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Then maybe you've got a configure script and then you'll want to know

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um the you know

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Whether you have to bootstrap and the typical complexities, but otherwise you might be able to skip that in in the abstract

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um

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Is that right or is it is

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Make uh, so and if the make file doesn't exist make install. I know i'm

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Looking at that and i'm questioning whether it's correct. Sorry about that

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Um in any case, uh, so autogen configure make install is our recipe autogen

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Creates the configure script configure creates the make file the make file

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Um in the case of windows, I almost always want the install

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Uh and to specify some location where the installed emacs will land this is

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where

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all of the recipes for packaging emacs

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go

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and if I were

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You know using this as a movie to upgrade I personally would do that by

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by specifying an install path quote unquote on top of

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Uh a main installation. I don't do that. I update shortcuts manually based on what specifically I want to try

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Uh in an effort to to to notice, uh interesting patches and confirm they work on windows

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Which mostly they do there's not a lot of code in my experience that is

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Windows specific and very very little around the build process

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All right

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Huge rabbit hole zone and I still have a minute before I have to kick off the first part of our demo

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so

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Let's let's keep keep diving in

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um

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The those specific part windows specific parts beside the dot exe extension that we're going to find slammed onto all of our familiar

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Uh executables. We're also going to have emacs client w

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Which is a wrapper that hides?

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um how hard it is to get

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Uh to take it

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How bad the abstraction is between the window management layer and the gooey?

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And then all the different parts on windows essentially it wants to create a shell window if we just double click emacs.exe

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So emacs client w

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Uh and run emacs are going to solve that problem

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um

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Wrapping emacs and emacs client respectively

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And

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Just uh

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All right, so let's let's go ahead and do something i'll i'm going to take away the ticker here for a minute

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And what you're not seeing is off stage. I am

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Killing that so we don't get builds in parallel

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Um

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So, um

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So at this point i'm going to open up a shell and i'm going to start talking just a little bit about

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My local build environment, which we haven't gotten into in fact just to make that even easier

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let's um

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Let's just take a look at it a little bit probably the easiest spot

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Is

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Here

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All right, so here we have the familiar windows my computer interface

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I have the g drive and the h drive

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four terabyte drives

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um dedicated to

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my

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um, really overblown emacs build process

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Um, this just lets me be super lazy. There's no reason you need any massive amount of storage to do any of this

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Um inside here and now i'll actually switch you back to the other screen

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um

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We'll we'll find

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Oops

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Sorry about that

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It didn't take the time to label that one

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Label that one

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Um, so here you can see the primary output that

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That i'm looking at through this automated process

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I come along I look at the bug reports or maybe i'm just restarting my computer and choosing what emacs

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version at random and then in that case, I look at this modified date and I say

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um my config that I

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You know that i'm playing with right now is all set for emacs 30

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Or i'm testing them both and i'm relaunching both of these right

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So for me that starts by diving into the install folder going into the bin folder

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Which looks exactly the way my automation leaves it. I then come in to run the run emacs

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And I create a shortcut

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um

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To it

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so

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I'm a keyboard person. So that's usually done like this

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And then I just know that the context menu is going to come up in the right place so i'll come up and

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um

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Possibly change the change the shortcut, right?

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If I don't mess with it

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Um

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So here's where i'll add my minus q if that's kind of where my world is at or it kind of depends on what i'm doing

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With these which varies week to week

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Um, so restarting my emacs, uh involves doing the same thing going to my desktop

22:12.600 --> 22:15.740
And where you'll find a number of emac shortcuts

22:17.000 --> 22:19.000
and

22:20.680 --> 22:23.240
Um updating the shortcut in the same manner

22:23.960 --> 22:31.580
Actually, maybe we'll just let's go back there and just show it. So if we look at for example my erc

22:33.880 --> 22:36.360
You can see it's going to be pointing at one of these

22:37.400 --> 22:39.400
clones, and then it's gonna

22:39.720 --> 22:45.080
Maybe tell me that I want it wants to be full screen. No, not currently and then it might uh,

22:45.560 --> 22:52.620
Have some stuff in there about auto loading a config and what connections i'm going to some commands i've defined to start connections

22:53.340 --> 22:55.340
So

23:00.620 --> 23:06.940
All right, and sorry I got a phone call I was checking it wasn't in an order the organ the other organizers giving me the hook

23:08.700 --> 23:14.380
So, um, all right, so that's that's probably enough on the local system. Let's get back to

23:15.580 --> 23:22.380
To to building emacs and now it hopefully makes a certain amount of sense when I say we're gonna wander over to the h drive

23:22.620 --> 23:24.700
and recreate the structure that

23:25.660 --> 23:27.180
both

23:27.180 --> 23:33.660
My process sort of assumes and the scripts you'll find in the admin nt

23:34.300 --> 23:37.740
Uh build disk folder in source

23:38.940 --> 23:44.860
Used to assume those scripts are in need of some love and in just a little bit i'll be mentioning a build

23:45.420 --> 23:46.940
uh

23:46.940 --> 23:47.900
a uh

23:47.900 --> 23:53.980
A a particular bug that you might want to pay attention to if you're interested in making a self installer

23:54.780 --> 23:56.780
all right, so

23:57.020 --> 23:58.140
um

23:58.140 --> 24:00.140
We're going to create

24:01.260 --> 24:04.160
Uh an emacs build directory

24:08.460 --> 24:15.500
And we've got a handy git clone stage git clone command stage for ourself that would work

24:16.380 --> 24:18.380
um

24:19.420 --> 24:26.160
Do not currently see anybody lobbying for that. So instead we will run the rather faster

24:28.140 --> 24:30.140
Uh w get command

24:30.940 --> 24:37.020
On savannah, which is not pasted in here. Nice. Let's see if I can freehand it not gonna do it

24:37.820 --> 24:39.820
uh

24:45.500 --> 24:47.500
Um

24:51.980 --> 24:56.480
Beg your pardon i'm grabbing a url from the internet

25:00.060 --> 25:04.460
Uh, okay. Yeah, I can't I can't honestly I can't freehand it whatever

25:06.060 --> 25:07.660
Sorry, I uh

25:07.660 --> 25:11.340
I didn't have that bookmarked and all handy like I thought I did

25:12.060 --> 25:14.300
Um, so we'll just say ftp.gnu

25:15.260 --> 25:17.260
.org

25:17.900 --> 25:24.560
Uh, what is it pub emacs emacs-29.1

25:26.460 --> 25:28.460
Uh

25:34.860 --> 25:36.860
Hmm

25:36.860 --> 25:38.860
I

25:40.700 --> 25:42.700
Didn't

25:43.100 --> 25:48.060
Really think i'd have this command sitting around it makes me want to scrap the whole demo i'm not gonna lie

25:48.940 --> 25:50.940
Okay, how am I doing your time?

25:51.820 --> 25:58.140
Um, I think at least 15 minutes. Um, but in the command that you were freehanding should the pub be gnu instead

25:59.100 --> 26:01.100
Oh, thanks

26:01.100 --> 26:03.100
I'm, sorry

26:07.420 --> 26:13.420
There we go, thank you. All right, and then we'll

26:17.820 --> 26:20.220
And i'm not sure I provided commands for this either

26:22.940 --> 26:29.660
But it is trivially easy to do and while that happens we'll get to move on a few slides

26:29.820 --> 26:31.820
Um

26:31.820 --> 26:35.660
The configure script i'm not talking about in a lot of detail

26:35.740 --> 26:40.460
But I do want to mention that the gnu binaries are provided with native

26:41.820 --> 26:46.080
Uh compilation enabled that's the feature that uses gcc

26:46.620 --> 26:53.020
lib gcc get on windows if available that looks gcc get will be used

26:53.740 --> 27:00.620
Um, but when but if if emacs has that feature then it will take by compile

27:01.420 --> 27:03.420
native code and

27:04.040 --> 27:05.100
asynchronously

27:05.100 --> 27:07.100
Compile that as needed

27:07.340 --> 27:09.340
uh with the ahead of time feature

27:09.660 --> 27:14.860
We're going to do as much of that ahead of time and for folks that are consuming the windows binary

27:14.860 --> 27:19.020
The thinking goes that they might not have mysys too. They might not have

27:19.740 --> 27:21.740
Gcc jet they might be

27:22.140 --> 27:24.140
Happy that they're enabled

27:24.140 --> 27:28.400
In a you know a lot of time run emacs on their local environments

27:30.460 --> 27:31.580
At all

27:31.580 --> 27:34.700
You know in a maybe a lockdown at a corporate context

27:35.420 --> 27:36.460
so

27:36.460 --> 27:37.660
aside

27:37.660 --> 27:38.860
that

27:38.860 --> 27:40.880
There's your first glimpse at the configure

27:42.140 --> 27:46.220
Program that we're going to run in a moment. In fact, i'm going to go as far as

27:47.020 --> 27:49.020
Putting it on the clipboard

27:49.100 --> 27:50.540
um

27:50.540 --> 27:53.260
Really just looking at this the aot flag

27:53.340 --> 27:58.620
It's the one i'd call attention to but it's worth understanding that windows doesn't provide a dbus capability

27:58.700 --> 28:02.700
So windows native program isn't gonna be able to depend on dbus. We're gonna

28:03.500 --> 28:08.960
We're gonna explicitly ask that that be left out. I think that's actually optional. It's documentation

28:09.260 --> 28:12.940
I think the configure program is smart enough to know that we don't want dbus

28:13.660 --> 28:15.100
on windows

28:15.100 --> 28:22.860
Um, otherwise we tend to compile with things. Um, there there's missing documentation. We could say the uh,

28:23.340 --> 28:26.780
all of the libraries are treated in the way I mentioned in that

28:27.900 --> 28:30.700
Jpeg support will be available as long as

28:32.060 --> 28:36.940
Jpeg is is available in our environment and configure script certainly notices that

28:37.500 --> 28:44.700
Um, the new provided binaries are provided with minus o2 and that's also my default personally on windows. Um,

28:45.580 --> 28:48.380
However, and i'm going to skip this since I mentioned it

28:49.260 --> 28:51.260
um mentioned

28:51.260 --> 28:53.260
uh, and uh

28:54.620 --> 28:56.460
Um

28:56.460 --> 29:00.380
So I guess i'll say um, you can um say with

29:01.420 --> 29:02.300
the

29:02.300 --> 29:08.620
It's worth knowing that you if you're not one reason that that you're building might be because you want to turn off native

29:08.920 --> 29:14.140
Compilation for whatever reason if you have load juices you get it, but don't want emacs to use it

29:14.700 --> 29:18.400
Uh, especially as that default looks like it could be changing with emacs 30

29:19.420 --> 29:20.540
um

29:20.540 --> 29:22.060
the uh

29:22.060 --> 29:27.100
the debug configuration, um, this is this is the uh, kind of

29:27.740 --> 29:34.060
Uh, what what i'm currently using this on commentary. Uh, i've seen on the emacs development list

29:34.060 --> 29:36.060
Um

29:40.620 --> 29:44.220
All right, let's check on our checkout and see if we can't get a build running

29:44.620 --> 29:48.300
Um, this is a release build so I won't be starting with

29:49.260 --> 29:51.920
Uh, so we'll start by hopping into its directory

29:53.980 --> 29:57.100
And we um we have

29:59.020 --> 30:01.020
Uh

30:05.020 --> 30:07.020
But not

30:11.260 --> 30:14.060
Okay, so that tells us we're gonna run

30:15.660 --> 30:17.660
Our configure program

30:18.540 --> 30:21.260
But we don't need to run uh config ic

30:23.260 --> 30:25.260
So

30:31.340 --> 30:33.580
So let's get that going and

30:34.060 --> 30:36.060
uh

30:36.060 --> 30:41.280
Hopefully that's showing through just enough to be fun not too much to be distracting

30:46.540 --> 30:49.440
Um the uh the unoptimized

30:52.140 --> 30:58.320
Um, please report issues if your emacs is crashing, uh to the emacs development list not to me personally

30:59.100 --> 31:02.220
Um, although you are of course welcome to copy me

31:02.700 --> 31:08.540
Um, if you especially i'm subscribed to that list so I get all the mail so I don't mind being copied

31:09.100 --> 31:11.020
uh, and

31:11.020 --> 31:12.380
as well

31:12.380 --> 31:13.740
if you think it's

31:13.740 --> 31:15.100
uh

31:15.100 --> 31:17.500
You know related to packaging that actually makes sense

31:18.060 --> 31:24.700
Or windows related even and uh, it can be tested with an extra snapchat that should be uploaded to the gnu alpha side

31:25.100 --> 31:27.500
I could look at that if I have time

31:27.820 --> 31:29.340
Okay

31:29.340 --> 31:31.660
That is with the configure script to make file for

31:32.200 --> 31:39.500
Emacs is really really complicated if time permits which i'm, you know now confident it will not

31:39.900 --> 31:45.500
We will look at a makefile that I tried writing that orchestrates this whole process that i'm talking about

31:47.180 --> 31:53.900
Um as uh, let's see, so the build uh build process I run my builds with

31:54.380 --> 31:58.220
Uh explicitly specifying the max cpu, uh

31:59.340 --> 32:01.180
with minus j

32:01.180 --> 32:08.380
But minus b1 to get the full build, uh full login to your recipes. That is probably the magic thing

32:09.100 --> 32:10.620
that um

32:10.620 --> 32:12.620
shouldn't to understand with uh

32:15.980 --> 32:23.520
Or that uh that that uh that i'm glad that I know, uh as i'm trying to write my automations

32:24.700 --> 32:26.700
um

32:26.940 --> 32:28.940
Uh the um

32:29.820 --> 32:34.060
So I call that out here the binary, uh releases

32:35.020 --> 32:39.100
Okay. So in this section, we're going to start to get into what are all those files

32:39.500 --> 32:43.020
And there's a bug report related to that that I didn't get into here. So

32:43.580 --> 32:47.340
Um, that's kind of to the point about the less said about this the better

32:47.660 --> 32:51.420
That's my explanation for stepping through some of these slides. Uh, of course

32:52.380 --> 32:54.380
Share them all um

32:55.820 --> 32:58.220
Hopefully by the time that this video is published

33:01.180 --> 33:07.180
I mentioned it. Um, I may have mentioned already freshly installed but uh fully installed

33:07.660 --> 33:13.020
uh this the the key distinction here is that uh emacs is

33:13.400 --> 33:20.700
Distributed in the binary form for windows with some dll files that actually come from the mysis 2

33:21.000 --> 33:26.220
Project there's an implication there to gcc that I definitely want to get to it talking about

33:28.060 --> 33:30.620
Um, so freshly installed means

33:31.340 --> 33:34.700
We haven't copied those binaries from the mysis 2

33:35.340 --> 33:37.180
uh installation

33:37.180 --> 33:39.180
into the emacs

33:39.480 --> 33:41.260
uh installation

33:41.260 --> 33:43.020
uh, and then

33:43.020 --> 33:48.300
When we re-archive that local emacs installation, that's how we're going to create the full zip

33:48.620 --> 33:53.020
So hopefully that actually is a pretty good summary of what all those files are

33:53.660 --> 33:57.900
Um, but there are readme files on the ftp. They do a pretty good job

33:59.020 --> 34:05.900
If you can dig enough to find one and my apologies for uh tardiness getting a new version on that posted

34:07.260 --> 34:09.180
um

34:09.180 --> 34:10.620
the emacs

34:10.620 --> 34:17.020
Uh, so those dependencies, uh are listed within the emacs itself and as we'll just talk about in a moment

34:17.020 --> 34:18.300
There's a way

34:18.300 --> 34:21.500
uh that we can use we can access that

34:22.220 --> 34:26.880
When we collect them in order to meet the gcc requirement that is essentially

34:27.660 --> 34:29.660
to include

34:29.660 --> 34:35.260
Um include the sources for the for those binaries the things that were compiled against

34:36.460 --> 34:38.460
um

34:39.100 --> 34:42.620
The uh, so so here we go, we're we're into the build process

34:42.700 --> 34:46.060
Let's just take a look and see if configure it got done it sure did

34:46.540 --> 34:48.540
and now we can see a table of

34:49.080 --> 34:51.080
Hopefully good, but good and bad news

34:51.900 --> 34:53.580
um in potential

34:53.580 --> 34:58.940
um where we're learning that we're using the pdumper strategy and any number of other things that we might be

34:59.180 --> 35:03.820
Messing with as our motivation for for building ourselves on emacs

35:04.860 --> 35:06.860
again, this table represents

35:07.340 --> 35:09.260
uh what you'll what

35:10.060 --> 35:15.280
What what it looks like for me when i'm building for the gnu distributed binaries

35:17.900 --> 35:19.900
All right, so um

35:20.780 --> 35:23.740
Kind of moving moving as quickly as I can here

35:24.540 --> 35:28.140
I'm at 40 after I believe that's the five minute mark

35:28.780 --> 35:29.660
so

35:29.660 --> 35:34.780
Um having just succeeded in in configuring emacs. I don't think we're going to build it. Uh

35:35.100 --> 35:39.180
I don't think we're going to actually get to running make install

35:39.900 --> 35:45.500
Um, but I have it sitting here on my keyboard or clipboard assuming that we will right?

35:49.100 --> 35:50.460
No

35:50.460 --> 35:52.460
Oh, wow

35:52.780 --> 35:56.940
I think i've managed to confuse this. All right, so for me that looks simply like

35:57.660 --> 35:59.740
uh make

35:59.740 --> 36:01.740
v equals one

36:01.740 --> 36:09.200
Uh install, uh prefix equals

36:10.700 --> 36:12.700
uh

36:18.380 --> 36:20.380
And we can at least get it kicked off

36:22.860 --> 36:25.740
And that that command is just uh

36:26.620 --> 36:30.540
Just is no no different than I showed on the slide where I where I gave it

36:31.020 --> 36:34.460
Uh, I wasn't planning to stop and explain it. I was just planning to paste it in

36:35.500 --> 36:36.700
so

36:36.700 --> 36:42.060
So so again recapping the rest of the process here and maybe actually making it if you can believe it or not

36:42.300 --> 36:44.460
through the rest of these slides, um

36:45.180 --> 36:52.240
We to to create the full set of binaries. We're going to need a no dependent no depth archive. That's without the mysys2

36:52.400 --> 36:58.740
To uh deal provided dlls just the things that we compile as part of making emacs

36:59.520 --> 37:01.520
um

37:02.400 --> 37:09.760
The uh, the build depth zip script is uh provided with the source distribution is your tool

37:10.240 --> 37:14.320
for uh meeting the gpl requirements ride source as mentioned before

37:14.880 --> 37:21.360
Um, there is a second bug that I did, uh include some more information on in my notes already

37:22.240 --> 37:24.240
um that uh

37:24.800 --> 37:27.840
That gets into the details of this other feature I alluded to

37:28.640 --> 37:30.640
Um, i'll just skip into that

37:31.200 --> 37:32.560
um

37:32.560 --> 37:34.640
we can with with uh

37:35.440 --> 37:40.240
With a an appropriate version of that which you may need a patch

37:41.040 --> 37:42.560
uh to

37:42.560 --> 37:44.660
To have you can list out the dependencies

37:45.540 --> 37:51.060
And and that version as well can consider the dependencies of the emacs binary versus the hard-coded list

37:51.060 --> 37:54.900
You might find depending on when you look at this file in the source tree

37:56.980 --> 37:58.980
The different um

37:59.060 --> 38:00.020
so

38:00.020 --> 38:06.440
I also have a hack here that uh works around the absolute requirement to run this with the mysys2

38:07.060 --> 38:09.060
And not the mingw64

38:09.060 --> 38:11.060
64

38:14.340 --> 38:16.340
Script

38:17.460 --> 38:18.500
Um

38:18.500 --> 38:27.080
Once we've made that zip file that contain that's that's our installed emacs without the dlls provided by mysys2

38:28.420 --> 38:35.140
We'll then unpack the dependencies that were created by that python script. We just talked about from the emacs source tree

38:36.020 --> 38:40.980
So at that point once those are unpacked we can now make what's called the full

38:41.600 --> 38:47.640
Installer or sometimes I might call it the unqualified installer because it's just going to be called emacs29.1.zip

38:51.060 --> 38:56.520
Um and that uh that file which which creates the archive

38:58.580 --> 38:59.780
That

38:59.780 --> 39:03.140
that that file is exactly the same plus the

39:03.780 --> 39:08.340
Uh, the dependencies that we unzipped in the bin folder of the installed emacs

39:09.700 --> 39:10.720
the

39:10.720 --> 39:17.460
Executable self-installer, which I would love to have more time to talk about I gave a few pointers here on the hard part of running

39:17.460 --> 39:19.460
it most importantly

39:19.940 --> 39:25.880
If i've installed in any kind of funny looking name, I end up renaming it to like emacs-29.1

39:26.840 --> 39:33.240
Or emacs-29. or 30.0.50 or whatever and I just rename that installed

39:33.880 --> 39:39.800
Emacs folder and then I go to the root of wherever I created that the parent directory above it

39:40.360 --> 39:43.420
And that's where I make my copy of the emacs nsi

39:44.120 --> 39:46.600
um the the nsis script

39:47.560 --> 39:49.400
and uh

39:49.400 --> 39:51.400
That's also where I

39:51.960 --> 39:59.160
And then uh, then from that parent directory I execute uh making sys uh here I as mentioned

39:59.800 --> 40:00.920
um

40:00.920 --> 40:05.160
I I can get away with this because I have it on my path and it's my recollection

40:05.240 --> 40:11.480
I think I tested this and couldn't reproduce the problem. So I didn't document it here, but i've had some problems with running this when

40:12.040 --> 40:13.160
uh

40:13.160 --> 40:15.160
When nsis wasn't on my path

40:16.920 --> 40:19.960
The uh, the the final step here

40:20.440 --> 40:25.260
And the last the gpl requirement is to include all the sources

40:25.780 --> 40:29.640
Except when i'm doing a release build I always do this

40:30.200 --> 40:35.800
Um, and that's the new practice when making snapchat binaries is to go ahead and include the sources

40:36.280 --> 40:38.840
Even though we might have the specific revision number

40:39.400 --> 40:43.000
Um, our thinking is we want absolute clarity

40:44.120 --> 40:45.480
that that somebody

40:45.480 --> 40:51.720
Uh can say okay this binary did this thing from the source for it i'm gonna go take that into my own open source

40:53.160 --> 40:57.160
yeah, maybe they would the jerks them into my own open source project and

40:57.880 --> 40:59.480
um

40:59.480 --> 41:03.340
Off, you know off they go, uh, and that needs to be possible

41:04.840 --> 41:06.520
um

41:06.520 --> 41:07.960
so, um

41:07.960 --> 41:13.640
Beyond that the rest of this is is really detailed that you find covered in the gnu maintainers manual

41:14.280 --> 41:20.120
Um, this is the the current set of windows binaries that um, it's busily working on

41:20.760 --> 41:22.760
creating a like for like a

41:23.400 --> 41:29.320
Mirror to behind the scenes here is called a 29.1 underscore two

41:30.280 --> 41:32.280
um, and I have a lot of

41:32.900 --> 41:37.720
Automation available on this site. So at this point i'm just I think i'm only

41:38.520 --> 41:40.520
minute 40 seconds over i'm

41:41.080 --> 41:42.120
gonna

41:42.120 --> 41:44.120
invite my

41:44.360 --> 41:50.200
Co-organizers back onto the call or any volunteers that want to jump in and anybody if there's people on the bbb

41:50.280 --> 41:53.080
I'd be happy to take questions if there aren't

41:53.640 --> 41:56.520
um, I have a screen full of

41:57.240 --> 42:02.200
The automation stuff ready to go as a kind of a second ring in my circus today

42:03.320 --> 42:07.240
So if you're still with me, thanks a lot for joining me, and I really enjoyed this talk

42:07.480 --> 42:11.560
Uh, if this is where we're going to close it out. I don't know where we're at for schedule today

42:13.080 --> 42:15.180
Um, thanks a lot for a great talk corwin

42:16.760 --> 42:21.640
Um in terms of like schedule, yeah, you went over a little bit for the official like, um

42:22.120 --> 42:24.120
schedule or time of your talk, but I think

42:24.760 --> 42:29.080
We actually have maybe like six or seven more minutes. Um here on stream

42:29.800 --> 42:35.400
For um questions and such if folks have questions or if you want to like quickly maybe show one or two more things

42:36.200 --> 42:37.000
um

42:37.080 --> 42:39.080
But I think the hard stuff is about like

42:39.480 --> 42:42.520
Maybe 10 minutes ish for now and then we'll have to rush over to um

42:43.320 --> 42:45.320
for the closing remarks, so

42:48.120 --> 42:50.120
Well, that sounds awesome

42:51.320 --> 42:58.280
Okay, so i'm looking at the the dev chat, uh, I see a comment on cross compiling the emacs

42:58.440 --> 43:05.160
But i'm sorry, i'm looking at irc primarily, but uh, feel free to jump in if you're on bbb with me or

43:05.320 --> 43:08.840
Uh, uh, if if you put something on the pad i'm sure

43:09.400 --> 43:12.520
I will see it between the two of us

43:13.160 --> 43:14.840
Uh over here

43:14.840 --> 43:21.080
Okay, so cross compiling emacs for serenity. I haven't tried really any cross compiling. I think that would be very interesting

43:21.160 --> 43:23.160
I would most likely focus on

43:23.720 --> 43:28.760
Doing exactly what I do on a gnu system completely ditching

43:29.320 --> 43:30.280
um

43:30.280 --> 43:34.600
So I guess with my my remaining time rather than walking through code

43:35.160 --> 43:39.560
Um for my automation which can be another talk if in fact there's an interest in that

43:40.200 --> 43:41.240
um

43:41.240 --> 43:45.560
I want to I guess say a couple words about the non-free operating system

43:46.200 --> 43:49.800
That i'm using here. I did my best to use no

43:50.660 --> 43:52.760
non-free software other than

43:53.640 --> 43:55.400
the

43:55.400 --> 43:57.400
Uh the operating system

43:57.720 --> 44:01.720
That is the context for this talk in preparing this talk for you

44:02.120 --> 44:05.080
I personally have a lot more

44:06.520 --> 44:13.560
Uh time and energy I have to say invested in proprietary tools for doing a lot of the things that

44:14.920 --> 44:19.480
That go into this so I really respect the work of people that pull that off. Um

44:20.200 --> 44:27.400
I'm, sorry, I didn't get my pre-recorded stuff. Uh kind of in order for everybody, but I just want to stress like

44:28.280 --> 44:35.480
Uh, it is all absolutely possible and just hats off to everybody that that used uh entirely free software to get their

44:36.200 --> 44:38.200
Get their recordings done in time

44:38.680 --> 44:40.680
um, and what you did see

44:41.640 --> 44:45.560
Unless it was provided by the operating system in my presentation today was all

44:46.040 --> 44:51.080
Uh free software with the debatable exception of nsys which styles itself

44:51.720 --> 44:53.320
as open source

44:53.320 --> 44:56.120
maybe for uh marketing reasons

44:57.480 --> 45:00.460
Uh in any case, uh, certainly we can get out of the source

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Thanks for the note corinne, it's good to know that uh

45:11.320 --> 45:18.600
Building or uh, yeah doing the build of emacs for windows on windows can be done using only free software

45:19.880 --> 45:21.880
Yeah, absolutely

45:23.480 --> 45:25.480
Probably the right closing note, right?

45:26.120 --> 45:32.440
um, I just uh, thanks again to the organizers for bearing with me and like every time I was like you guys i'm

45:32.520 --> 45:36.760
Terrible at this. They're just like no you're doing fine. Keep going. You did a great job live last time

45:37.000 --> 45:43.000
You can do it live, you know and and saying all the right things to just uh, encourage me to come back

45:44.840 --> 45:46.840
This year and everywhere

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Well, as I said before we were very lucky to have you and the rest of the team of course as well and

45:54.760 --> 45:59.960
um goes without saying but all the speakers and all the audience the participants as well, so

46:08.360 --> 46:09.720
Um

46:09.720 --> 46:17.000
So, uh, are we we're still live over here that you know, you know me i'm the mike hog that I am I can't resist

46:17.800 --> 46:21.720
um throwing throwing up another screen here and uh,

46:22.280 --> 46:27.000
In fact, let's go ahead and go back to our to our crawler, right?

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And i'll bring back our build if it finishes and maybe we'll show making the installer as well, um

46:39.480 --> 46:42.040
But I have the cpu count turned down a little bit here

46:44.200 --> 46:46.600
Note I didn't specify minus j here

46:47.400 --> 46:49.400
um, so

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Over here is my automation, uh in case you do want to take a look

46:52.920 --> 46:59.480
I can at least provide the orientation of what you're looking at scrape log is probably my first thing. I want to show off

46:59.800 --> 47:05.800
um, it's not beautiful, but this works, uh, pretty well for me to

47:06.280 --> 47:12.440
Get a sense if something might have changed in terms of how many warnings or errors are happening

47:13.080 --> 47:18.620
When I build emacs, so I have this awful automation going on and I frequently want to answer the question

47:19.260 --> 47:23.500
You know, what's the change rate in uh warnings or what have you?

47:24.140 --> 47:26.140
So this kind of gives me a count

47:26.460 --> 47:28.220
of that

47:28.220 --> 47:29.820
um

47:29.820 --> 47:31.820
so from there, uh

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Crude ci is the script. We're we're watching run in the other pane

47:37.980 --> 47:39.900
um, you can

47:39.900 --> 47:41.900
see it's uh

47:42.780 --> 47:45.020
Just starting to do its thing again

47:48.860 --> 47:50.860
And uh

47:51.420 --> 47:58.620
The make file I mentioned this is a top-down rewrite of everything else that i've done it has some bugs right now

48:00.300 --> 48:02.460
um the uh

48:03.660 --> 48:04.460
the

48:04.460 --> 48:09.660
Build distribution is the main script that I use for my personal builds

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This is what is run by the crude ci script

48:13.820 --> 48:16.380
Uh, it has a fun tie-in to this

48:16.700 --> 48:18.700
Uh web interface here

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Um where we can you don't need the port number when you go to it. That's just if i'm going to post

48:25.260 --> 48:27.260
um the

48:28.380 --> 48:30.380
Uh

48:31.100 --> 48:37.980
Blah blah blah blah this this script is really long and complicated and probably needs some diving into but you can see that

48:38.540 --> 48:44.540
Um, one of the complexities I have to deal with is that i'm going to need a something in the format of an emacs dash

48:44.860 --> 48:46.860
version for strategic

48:47.100 --> 48:49.580
um nsys reasons so

48:50.140 --> 48:51.900
uh

48:51.900 --> 48:56.460
It takes care of kind of every complexity and stuff that I mentioned today in some respects

48:57.020 --> 48:59.980
Um, as does the make file build release

49:00.780 --> 49:01.660
is

49:01.660 --> 49:04.160
um another fairly useful

49:05.240 --> 49:11.580
Incarnation of this this is just focused on the release process and this does work

49:12.060 --> 49:14.060
for example to create the

49:14.380 --> 49:15.420
the

49:15.420 --> 49:17.420
You know like I like well I could

49:17.980 --> 49:23.760
Like uh for like files as far as I can tell so what are currently posted for emacs 29.1

49:24.860 --> 49:26.860
and the release candidate

49:27.660 --> 49:28.860
um

49:28.860 --> 49:34.300
So i'll probably use that next time and if it's still like for like i'll probably post the ones that came from this

49:35.580 --> 49:37.340
um

49:37.340 --> 49:44.940
Uh building a tree sitter I make some dlls there if you're looking for hints on how to get going or just simply

49:45.580 --> 49:49.900
A huge long list of git repositories that make grammars you can use

49:50.780 --> 49:52.780
That is here as well

49:53.580 --> 49:56.620
um, finally I mentioned I have a

49:58.300 --> 50:03.980
Um, I have a a website where I publish my own personal snapshots that I make

50:04.540 --> 50:07.820
That folder full of install directories, but all of the usual

50:08.360 --> 50:13.920
GNU style binary distributables including the source code and the source code for the dependencies

50:14.860 --> 50:15.980
um

50:15.980 --> 50:17.820
the

50:17.820 --> 50:19.820
uh

50:20.460 --> 50:23.180
So this program is another one of those

50:24.300 --> 50:28.700
Complicated find commands and therefore potentially the most useful thing in here to take to you

50:29.340 --> 50:33.340
Um, and here i'm deleting binaries older than 17 years

50:34.220 --> 50:36.220
uh everything except

50:36.220 --> 50:37.500
the uh

50:37.500 --> 50:41.020
No deps file and the sources of it. You'll find on my website

50:41.580 --> 50:44.140
Currently those indefinitely i'll probably roll out

50:44.760 --> 50:46.760
120 days or something

50:47.020 --> 50:49.020
um for those eventually

50:53.580 --> 50:57.340
Oh, uh, I can talk about this one even um the uh

50:57.740 --> 50:58.700
The

50:58.700 --> 51:02.380
So here you'll see the two branches that i'm tracking the job of this script

51:02.780 --> 51:07.020
Is this runs on the website? I call it with a like a remote rsync

51:07.740 --> 51:08.620
uh type

51:08.620 --> 51:11.420
Uh, or an ssh remote ssh command

51:12.060 --> 51:13.740
um

51:13.740 --> 51:18.220
And right after the rsync r syncing up any new emacs that I built

51:19.020 --> 51:20.540
and

51:20.540 --> 51:22.540
uh, it's

51:23.180 --> 51:29.920
Uh, its job is to update my fancy directory indexing so let's look at corwin's website

51:31.580 --> 51:35.040
Here's my emacs 29 folder

51:44.780 --> 51:46.780
We have about two more minutes corwin

51:47.420 --> 51:52.380
Yeah, it'll take that entire two minutes to uh, load this directory because I am

51:52.940 --> 51:56.140
Because I have not yet ever pruned any of these dang binaries

51:56.380 --> 52:01.500
So every version of uh emacs 29 that i've ever made for myself is probably here

52:02.540 --> 52:03.580
nice

52:03.580 --> 52:09.660
Uh, I strongly recommend that you bookmark this folder if you're using these for something and you always want the latest

52:09.980 --> 52:17.500
Um, so here this particular, uh latest 29 emacs 29 latest or simply replace the 29 with 30 to get those

52:18.220 --> 52:19.080
uh

52:19.080 --> 52:20.140
alas

52:20.140 --> 52:22.620
No, no such luck for tree setter

52:23.180 --> 52:25.180
but if we look at

52:25.740 --> 52:27.740
that

52:36.380 --> 52:39.100
Live this long without making a typo now look at me

52:40.220 --> 52:42.220
Okay

52:44.780 --> 52:46.780
Oh

52:51.500 --> 52:53.180
So here, um

52:53.180 --> 52:57.100
You know, we can see the iconification and so on even in the tree sitter folder

52:57.180 --> 53:01.420
this is all i'm talking about about the fanciness that's set up by that other script that

53:02.380 --> 53:06.940
i'm showing over here and run after each time I run the upload it just

53:07.900 --> 53:12.780
Looks to see if anything's new and add some lines to the dot htaccess file

53:15.900 --> 53:17.180
Um

53:17.180 --> 53:22.700
I'm, particularly proud of this one. I'm not going to lie. Um, linking out to each each

53:23.500 --> 53:27.020
project that we're using letting us know the commit version and then

53:28.300 --> 53:33.100
For the dlls quick link out to the log and the signature file for this dll

53:34.140 --> 53:36.140
um

53:37.020 --> 53:39.020
I find that a lot just a lot

53:40.540 --> 53:42.220
More readable

53:42.220 --> 53:44.060
than uh

53:44.060 --> 53:48.620
Listing them all out individually and i'd love to do something like that on the new site

53:51.180 --> 53:52.220
So i'm

53:52.220 --> 53:56.540
I think we've got to be out of time by now. I've just got to say hey, thanks again for having me

53:56.780 --> 54:01.740
Uh for those that uh watch the talk either live or after the conference

54:02.460 --> 54:05.820
uh appreciate everyone's support to get me to the point where i'm able to

54:06.540 --> 54:10.220
Uh to do this this this cool volunteer task

54:10.380 --> 54:14.220
Uh, which is fun and easy to do and reach out to me if you're interested in helping with it

54:19.020 --> 54:25.740
Well, awesome, thanks a lot for the awesome talk corbin and uh, of course as a fellow core core organizer

54:26.060 --> 54:33.280
For our for all that you do, um in and around emacs conf and of course for uh, can we max as well? It's much appreciated

54:36.140 --> 54:39.100
Big big words from coming from you my friend

54:41.740 --> 54:43.740
Um, thanks for the kind words

54:45.020 --> 54:51.660
Cheers my pleasure. All right, and with that I think we're gonna uh wrap up the dev track here and we'll be

54:52.300 --> 54:58.140
With you again shortly in a few minutes on the gen stream the gen track for the closing remarks for today

54:58.620 --> 55:01.900
Um only for today because we're gonna be back tomorrow again as well

55:02.460 --> 55:05.760
So don't go anywhere and uh, see you on the gen track in a bit

55:05.760 --> 55:07.760
So

55:28.080 --> 55:31.680
Oh my god, I did it we got done within the time you're my hero

55:31.840 --> 55:35.440
um, and thank you so much for just keeping me honest there and uh

55:36.720 --> 55:39.300
Like helping me keep my eye on the time and such

55:50.880 --> 55:53.680
You have to look at the recording and see whether you feel like doing it again

55:56.160 --> 56:01.360
I'm sorry. I had my sound screwed up and i'm sorry if I talked over somebody I couldn't hear anything on mumble until this very

56:01.360 --> 56:03.360
moment

56:03.520 --> 56:08.960
Oh, uh because he used your webcam for it, um, like as a like a virtual webcam thingy

56:09.520 --> 56:12.960
It was low res especially when things are changing as you were

56:13.520 --> 56:15.120
scrolling around

56:15.120 --> 56:20.720
So we'll see what kind of recording we can recover from it and then you can decide whether you maybe want to clean it up

56:20.720 --> 56:22.080
with like

56:22.080 --> 56:24.080
screenshots and

56:24.240 --> 56:28.960
I recorded on this end too. We shouldn't have that problem with my recording. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you

56:29.360 --> 56:31.360
I think we're still live on the dev stream

56:34.240 --> 56:37.440
Someone could uh, thanks. Oh, yes

56:38.880 --> 56:42.180
Because uh, i'll set it to rebroadcast

56:45.520 --> 56:48.480
Yeah, I I love doing that for the closing remarks that's

56:49.680 --> 56:51.680
a fine tradition

56:52.000 --> 56:55.280
Or it's a tradition now because i'm pretty sure this means we've done it twice

56:55.440 --> 56:57.440
I

57:02.560 --> 57:05.360
Once heard that, you know, uh as a fan

57:05.680 --> 57:11.680
Meaning like a fannish is a term of endearment for a science fiction fan to another we say we're we're fans or things

57:11.680 --> 57:17.440
We do our fannish and a fannish tradition then is if you do it three times, it's tradition

57:18.000 --> 57:20.000
But um, we're on a budget here. So

57:22.880 --> 57:24.880
Nope

57:25.920 --> 57:29.840
All right, I think we should um head over to mumble and talk on mumble

57:30.080 --> 57:34.640
Um and decide and see like which big blue button room we're going to be in for closing

57:35.200 --> 57:37.200
Okay, so we're clear on bbb here

57:37.760 --> 57:39.760
Yep, I think so