path: root/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-web--emacs-saves-the-web-maybe--yuchen-pei--answers.vtt

WEBVTT


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[Speaker 0]: 2 seconds. And I think we are live.

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Hi Yuchen, how are you doing?

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[Speaker 1]: I'm gonna just walk off.

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I'm not sure if I... Yeah,

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I mean, brain not working well at this

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moment. How about you?

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[Speaker 2]: Well, mine is about to get fried because

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EmacsConf is a very taxing process and I can

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tell you we could have a race to know who's

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more more tired right now between you and

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myself but I guess we'll find out at the end

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[Speaker 1]: All right, sounds good.

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[Speaker 2]: of the Q&A. And thank you for...

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How late or how early I should say is it for

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you right now? It should be like 6am or

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[Speaker 1]: Thanks. It's 7.45 but I normally get up at

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like 8.30 or something.

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[Speaker 2]: something? Right, okay.

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Well, anyway, thank you for the sacrifice

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just to answer some of the questions.

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All right, so I'll be displaying the

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questions. I'll be, let me just maximize this

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on the stream so that people can read

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everything on my screen.

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So what I'm going to do,

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Yuchen, as usual, I'm going to start reading

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the questions on the pad.

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I'm going to ask Sasha to open the Q&A.

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Yes, it's already open.

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Cool. So if you want to join us,

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people, Feel free to click on the link on the

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talk or on IRC to join us on BBB and to ask

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your questions. Otherwise just leave them on

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the pad. Alright, Yuchen,

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starting with the first question.

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I like the idea of using org-mode to display

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data from the web. Are there many different

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packages that do not, I assume.

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I'm new to Emacs, so maybe this is obvious to

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everyone else.

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[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I think so. I mean...

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[Speaker 2]: Yeah, I think it's a little complicated to

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specify what is it to display data from the

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web. Just reading it like this,

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I'm reminded of Adam, Arthur Pappa,

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I mean, Code All Capture Web,

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which technically captures the web and allows

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you to embed it in the page,

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but is it really displaying data from the

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web? Are we implying live transmission?

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Do you see what I'm talking about?

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[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I suspect the question is asking,

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like, having Emacs as a client that's sort of

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getting data from the web and then displays

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in Emacs, like using API or using web script.

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So yeah, like the hreader package or a few

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packages mentioned in my talk.

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Yeah, that's a good question.

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I mean, I really don't know how many.

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So from my experience,

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maybe I use like 10, less than 10 packages

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that do these things. And among these

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packages, maybe it's half of them are org,

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[Speaker 2]: So you mean half of them are org-based?

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Is that what you said?

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[Speaker 1]: half of them don't. Yeah,

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but that's just based on the packages I use.

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I haven't done a survey about this.

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[Speaker 2]: I think it's okay, you don't need to have all

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the answers. I mean, you already demonstrate

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a lot of competence and you talk about all

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the things you approach with your particular

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setup, So you don't need to have all the

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answers. Okay. All right,

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moving on to the next question.

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Have you tried EAF, i.e.

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The Emacs application framework and its

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browser? If yes, what is your opinion about

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it?

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[Speaker 1]: Oh, I haven't tried it.

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I try to remember why I haven't tried it.

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It has a browser. I assume the browser

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executes JavaScript by default.

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I have to check. Emacs.daf

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slash daf browser.

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[Speaker 2]: It's also OK if you want to have a look later

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and you know whenever you want to report to

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the pad you know you write a little blurb

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[Speaker 1]: Yeah sure yeah so yeah I know about EAF but I

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haven't tried it.

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[Speaker 2]: about it. Okay well that's already an answer

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that's cool. We're gonna move on to a

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question that is a little bit off topic,

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but I've also been interested about your

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nickname on IRC. This is not really relevant

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to the talk, quoting the question,

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but I'm curious about your nickname.

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You have some connection to Norway.

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Your nick indicates an interest in the

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architectural style inspired by the

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decoration on Viking ships that was popular

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in the early 20th century because

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Dragonsteel, I assume in Norwegian,

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is Dragon style. Are you familiar with this?

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[Speaker 1]: Yeah, it's just my favorite architecture

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style, I think. I mean,

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I lived in Sweden for like 2,

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1 half years and yeah I went to Norway once

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and I saw like this church in Lofoten Island,

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[Speaker 0]: was amazing. In Luton Island,

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on Luton Island. Right.

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[Speaker 1]: on Lofoten Island. Yeah it Yeah,

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it was amazing. So, yeah,

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that's exactly why I chose that as my

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nickname, because it's my favorite

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architecture style.

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[Speaker 2]: Okay, well, that was a very astute remark by

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the viewers, so I hope you feel validated in

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[Speaker 0]: assumptions. Moving on

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[Speaker 2]: your to another question.

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Yuchen, do you have any thoughts about Nixed,

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about its name, its approach,

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its relevance? About Nixed,

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the browser, N-Y-X-T. Oh,

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Nixed.

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[Speaker 1]: About what? Yeah, I have tried it.

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Well, I mean, it's not Emacs.

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It's kind of similar. I think it tries to do

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something similar to Emacs,

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but The problem with Nix is that very early

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on I encountered an issue with keybinding.

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So the first thing I want to do is to make

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all its keybindings emax-y.

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So that's obviously...

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So what was the problem?

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So yeah, I couldn't even do that.

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I thought, I was expecting that it could...

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There shouldn't be any issues with setting up

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whatever key binding you want.

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So I, the, the issue was that when I tried to

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do when I tried to bind Ctrl S Ctrl R to the

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prompt going up and down,

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so I use I was I complete and I'm used to

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like the control S and control R to go,

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to cycle through the selections.

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And so I want it the same in next in its

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prompt like when, for example,

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typing a URL and get completion from history.

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But it has a conflict with the...

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And also, I try to bind the hint.

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So when I want to follow a link,

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So I press a hint key and then like all these

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links are highlighted with like little

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letters that I can like choose which 1 I want

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which link I want to follow.

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So I try to bind that 1 to J sort of like

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Control C, Control J, or mode.

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But apparently there's a conflict here.

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So when I do both these prompt mode binding

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and the document mode binding,

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Yeah, the prompt no longer works.

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And I reported the bug to Nixt.

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And yeah, and there was response but there

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are so many bugs there,

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and I don't think that bug is very high

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priority. So yeah, I basically stopped trying

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that because key mining is very important to

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[Speaker 2]: Right, but, sorry, please finish.

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[Speaker 1]: me. Yeah, so I mean, yeah,

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without key bindings I can't like,

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I won't. So, okay, I feel this is a very

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basic functionality. I'm kind of reluctant to

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[Speaker 2]: Without key bindings, they are.

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[Speaker 1]: continue trying what These are pieces.

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[Speaker 2]: It reminds me of 2 points.

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So yesterday with Stefan we were talking

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about sane defaults and when he was sleeping

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today we talked about it again with a

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speaker. We did the mentor talk.

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Feel free to re-watch it afterwards.

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But it's funny how, you know,

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regardless of how big the package actually

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is, they always provide some kind of sane

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default and with Nixed,

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obviously, it's built with a Vim mentality

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and modality of key bindings.

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And for us, we are more used to the Emacs way

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of doing things. It's a complete blocker.

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No matter how great the pieces of

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functionality behind Nixed are,

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just the fact that UX-wise we cannot get into

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it or we cannot have it behave nicely with

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what we do. It's a massive block that is

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preventing appropriation of such tools.

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So it might seem very basic to bounce a

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package at the level of key bindings but

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that's what we all do.

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[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I totally agree.

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[Speaker 2]: Right, if I can just interrupt,

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we have about 2 more minutes of questions and

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I see people are writing more questions.

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Did you want to add something,

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Yucheng? On what we're saying?

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[Speaker 1]: No, no, no, Let's continue.

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[Speaker 2]: had plenty of time. Okay,

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I'm going to ask you to be quick about this

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1. I'm going to read the question,

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which is slightly long,

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and you're going to have about 30 seconds to

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answer it. Do you feel capable of this?

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[Speaker 1]: I thought we Yeah, let's try it.

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[Speaker 2]: Let's try it. At least try it.

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Okay, so quoting, I find the JavaScript trap

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almost impossible to avoid since I like to

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buy used stuff online and use my online bank.

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How do you deal with a JavaScript trap?

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I use NoScript and compromise on a few things

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I really feel I cannot live without.

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EWW is nice for a lot of things,

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especially with R for less noise,

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but I need Firefox for those GS and trapped

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pages. So do you have a quick answer to this?

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[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I don't have a good answer,

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but I have a quick answer.

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So I use VPN and like a more,

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what do you call it, move out the Swedish VPN

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browser, move out browser.

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Yeah, so I unfortunately I have to use

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JavaScript in these cases as well,

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but I try to minimize the use of these

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things.

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[Speaker 2]: How long do you think it will take for us to

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save the world with Emacs,

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or save the web at least?

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5 years, 10 years, maybe a little less than

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this?

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[Speaker 1]: Well I think it's, unfortunately it's

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probably independent of Emacs,

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like it will only be saved when,

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like it's saved on like the normal,

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the more popular browsers like Firefox.

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I have no clue how long it will take for,

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I don't know, for example,

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Tala to pick up so that you can buy things

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without running JavaScript.

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[Speaker 2]: Right. Well, I guess we'll have to cross our

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fingers then for Firefox to save the world.

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All right Yuchen, we're about out of time,

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we're moving on to the next talk in 20

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seconds. Thank you so much for your

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presentation and for waking up early and

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answering the question,

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and I can tell you, you were very alert and

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definitely more energetic than I was.

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All right, see you later.

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[Speaker 1]: Thank you. See you.

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[Speaker 2]: Bye. And we go to the next talk right now.

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[Speaker 0]: You are currently

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you