path: root/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-poltys--the-browser-in-a-buffer--michael-bauer--original.vtt

WEBVTT


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I think it's still going up.

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All right. I think we should be live now.

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So hi, everyone. And hi,

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Michael. How are you doing?

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Hi. Hello, EmacsConf. I'm pretty excited to

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be live at this year's EmacsConf and getting

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a chance to talk about my favorite program or

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our favorite program. Well,

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yeah, I'm doing pretty fine,

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and I'm excited. Well,

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so are we. So without further ado,

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the floor is yours. Present for as much as

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you want. We've already discussed the timings

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so I'll let you on your own.

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Okay so let's get started.

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The topic of the talk is the browser in a

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buffer or Poltus, a periodic web weaver.

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Poltus is a kind of spider and the name of

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the project I'm going to show you.

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But first let's set the stage for this

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project. Here we have Emacs I'm presenting

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from and here we have Firefox.

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I'm inside and there's a video.

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Okay, let's do this. Don't do the inception.

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Put it over there somewhere.

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Okay. So here's Firefox.

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It's not, it's, It's in a buffer,

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but it's pretty disconnected from Emacs.

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It's in an XWM buffer.

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So you can use it from inside Emacs,

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but they don't talk. Emacs doesn't talk to

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the browser and the browser doesn't talk

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back. And I'm going to show you something

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that changes this. But first,

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I think for many of you,

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it's the same, like there's Emacs and the

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other important program is the browser.

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So how do you do something?

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Let's continue with the stage.

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We have some research session.

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We have this EmacsConf we found this year and

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there are a lot of talks.

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This is the 1 we're watching right now and

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let's have a look. What else is interesting?

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Ah, this was yesterday.

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So have a look at today.

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There is a world of possibilities.

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That sounds great. Oh,

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that is right now. So greetings to you.

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Yes, the browser and the buffer and other

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stuff. So now we have a lot of talks,

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tabs open and we're going to go back to

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Emacs. I can't switch buffers in a dedicated

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window. So apparently I can't do that.

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Here's Emacs again. Now I'm in Emacs and I

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want to have something from my browser,

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maybe like the open tabs or I want to

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annotate them. I'm in org mode right now,

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so I would like to do it from Org Mode maybe.

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How do I get the tab? Okay,

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let's tap back. I want to annotate this page.

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Let's get the link, put it here.

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Oh, that wasn't a link.

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That was something totally different.

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So let's use the mouse.

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There's the link. Now we could put a title

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and so on. What I'm showing you here is it is

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pretty, no it's not too difficult,

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but it could be easier interacting with the

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browser. And there are helpers to do

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something like this. I had,

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for example, I used for a long time this

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extension. It's called export tabs URLs and

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you got a list of your tabs and you can just

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copy them to clipboard.

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So now we have the tabs,

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copy them to clipboard and there they are.

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So now we can do something with the tabs,

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rearrange them, take notes and so on.

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Okay. And there's even other stuff for while

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researching for this talk on this extension,

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I found this tab session manager where you

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can have a look at your tabs it does

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snapshots it exports it in Brazilian

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different formats and yeah that's even more

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luxurious no better but it's still not an

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emacs okay so how could we get it into Emacs?

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Maybe this thing called Pultus could help.

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The theme is from a browser extension and a

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manual workflow. As I showed you right now,

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we want to go to an interactive Emacs

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interface. How to deal with the browser and

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its tabs from inside Emacs.

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And we're gonna do just that right now.

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So we had this research session over there.

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So now it's demo time.

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We had this research session.

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Let's open it again. Here is it.

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And now we want to do it from inside Emacs.

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We say please Emacs insert this or please

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Poltis insert this. And now we have the

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browser session inside Emacs.

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It's a little bit roomy so you can see it

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over the internet. And we learned that

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BigBooplotten doesn't set a title or has a

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new line in it. I'm not actually sure what

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happened here. So let's have this browser

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session and what can we do with it?

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For once you can just copy stuff here,

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you can take notes and it updates with the

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browser. If you change something in the

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browser, maybe switch these tabs,

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they switch over there.

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Or you say, okay, I don't want to have

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HyperDrive in here. And I don't need the

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instructions for speakers because I'm not a

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speaker so I have a live sync to Emacs from

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the browser in this Org Mode interface and we

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can do more stuff with it,

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for example we could I already showed you how

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to rearrange stuff. We can open new tabs.

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We can have a look at let's say emacs-conf

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again and they're just updating and now it

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says a new tab, add another 1,

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okay. So I think you get the gist.

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Now let's take a note on this.

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This conference sounds interesting.

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Have a look. Maybe thumbs up.

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Okay I can do this. So now there's a link,

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not a link, a note. If I close it and reopen

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it, There's the note again.

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So we have persistent notes for browser tabs

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or not actually browser tabs,

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it's actually URLs. Use the browser tab.

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I'm gonna open another URL.

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Now it's not without a node.

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Going back, the node is back there.

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That's how far I can show you Politis because

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the interface isn't finished otherwise.

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But the backend is pretty cool and I'm gonna

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tell you more about that.

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The interface is right now just browser

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interaction 1 way from the browser into org

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mode, an org mode interface and it has nodes.

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But it's not too difficult to imagine,

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for example, adding tags or...

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I just remembered Or I just remembered

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something. Okay. So for example,

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adding texts or scheduling information or

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what else, all the stuff you do with org

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mode. Or go the other way around and sync

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from the org mode buffer to the browser.

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So I could delete this heading or rename it

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or stuff like that. So it's reflected in the

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browser. I'm not going to do it right now

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because it's not implemented.

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But just to give you an outlook of the

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possibilities. Good. So let's leave this

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browser session here. Browser session below.

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Okay. Change the outline structure or stuff

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like this. So get the browser back,

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debugging. Yep, this talks,

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I could change something here,

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go back to the talks page and still working.

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Now I showed you what it does and what can

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you use it for or What is it intended to be

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used for if it's finished,

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because it isn't finished as I said.

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Manage your open tabs.

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So for example my use case is I do something,

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have a big collection of tabs open And then I

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need RAM. This PC here has just 4 GB of it,

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so sometimes I need to close the browser too.

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I don't have to close the PC.

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And in this case I'd like to save the

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session. So far I just copied this clipboard

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thing I showed you earlier in an org mode and

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Captured it away and this should be the

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future for this workflow You just capture the

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browser session rearrange it.

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However, you like it and then you make make

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it offline. So this is the thing I didn't

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show you. You can, if you were looking here

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you can you see that this heading is open in

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tab 37, window 1. So if you would remove

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this, it's offline. And you keep just the org

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structure. It's a simple text file then.

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And the plan future feature is to go back to

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the online state. So you have a session,

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maybe a browser window,

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you save it to Org Mode,

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close the window and some days later or weeks

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later you return to this research session,

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maybe something about Emacs or whatever

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spikes your interest, and you can just reopen

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it from the browser, from Org Mode.

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So Org Mode becomes the controller of the

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browser. And it's not,

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it doesn't have to be Org Mode,

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but for the demo purpose,

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Org Mode was the most easy interface.

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That easy. I don't know if you're doing more

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complex interactive stuff in Org Mode,

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but there's some tricky edge cases.

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I just finished this demo half an hour ago,

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maybe an hour ago, and I'm really lucky that

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it worked in the end. Org mode,

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pretty great. So maybe you could do another

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interface, does not matter.

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Easy access to more info from inside Emacs.

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Yeah, Of course, you can imagine like we have

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just the title URL here,

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but you could even get at the text of the

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buffer. I'd show you in the,

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in the, how is it done section,

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manage and research session,

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tab groups. I already showed you this and

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browse all your links.

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I also showed you. So let's go over to how is

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it done. How is it done then?

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It should be quite apparent that somehow the

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browser has to sync its state to Emacs and

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Emacs has to know about the browser and

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there's like a bidirectional state

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synchronization going on here.

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And there's a browser side and an Emacs side.

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The browser side is a add-on,

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a web extension add-on.

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I first tried to use WebDriver by DIY.

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I don't know if you know it,

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you open a web socket and then you can talk

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to the browser, but It was so frustrating to

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actually get it to do what I wanted to do

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that I changed to the web extension and this

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wasn't that much better,

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but I finally had all the features I needed

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because WebDriver is like all in flux and you

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have to look at the Firefox bug tracker.

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Do they have implemented this already?

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And no, most often they don't.

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So now it's a web extension add-on and it

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just tells Emacs little facts about the

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browser. And for you to make,

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to, that this facts make more sense for you,

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I think I have to explain how the Emacs side

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of this works. So the Emacs side,

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at first I thought I make it quite simple and

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then I over engineered it.

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And now it's great, but also not finished.

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So the Emacs site is a database.

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It's a triple store or RDF database.

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It stores all information in triples.

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So you have a subject,

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subject, predicate, and an object.

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And you can query this database.

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For those of you who watched last year's talk

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of Andrew Hyatt about SQL in Emacs.

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He presented such a database if you want to

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have a closer look. And sorry,

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Andrew, I didn't use yours.

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I had to make my own. I'm not sure it's

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better, but it was fun.

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And it has some different design decisions.

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For those of you who don't know what's up

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with a database like this,

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maybe you know web apps like all this new Org

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Mode clones. How are they called?

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Obsidian, Roam, and so on and so on.

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All of these are possible because,

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I don't know if Obsidian too,

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but stuff like Roam is possible because they

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have a triple store in the browser and use

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this to power their knowledge base.

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And if you have had a look at Org Rome,

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you know it's uses a database too,

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because if this knowledge gets bigger,

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database is better to handle.

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And now here's a triplet store or a database

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to manage your browser session inside Emacs,

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but it's not limited to browser session.

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You could do nodes and stuff.

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I don't have a project for this,

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but you can look at this project from Andrew

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Hyatt. Has a pretty interesting notes

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project. So here is it in Emacs.

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There's the link. You can have a look.

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Okay. So now we have this database in Emacs.

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It's possible to do something like this in

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Emacs now because the database has Emacs

00:17:21.220 --> 00:17:21.700
SQLite integrated And the browser logs inside

00:17:22.900 --> 00:17:23.359
into this database via Emacs.

00:17:26.579 --> 00:17:26.839
It sends Emacs, it connects to Emacs via

00:17:32.380 --> 00:17:32.580
WebSocket. Emacs is a WebSocket server and

00:17:35.580 --> 00:17:35.800
then it sends little snippets like this

00:17:46.420 --> 00:17:46.920
window shows these tabs or this tab shows

00:17:51.060 --> 00:17:51.300
this URL And Emacs has triggers in this

00:17:53.600 --> 00:17:53.760
database. It can install Elisp triggers and

00:17:58.420 --> 00:17:58.920
the trigger powered the org mode frontend.

00:18:06.040 --> 00:18:06.540
Okay, so that's how it's done.

00:18:08.780 --> 00:18:09.280
It's not finished, but it does something.

00:18:13.540 --> 00:18:13.820
Now I want to do some closing remarks and

00:18:14.440 --> 00:18:14.940
maybe some more remarks.

00:18:17.120 --> 00:18:17.400
First off, an interesting concept I thought

00:18:23.240 --> 00:18:23.680
up while implementing this is cheesy garbage

00:18:28.100 --> 00:18:28.580
collect. For all you fans of dynamic

00:18:31.000 --> 00:18:31.340
languages, you know what garbage collect is.

00:18:33.720 --> 00:18:34.220
And Emacs users probably know it.

00:18:38.060 --> 00:18:38.380
Cleans up after you. You are using this Emacs

00:18:40.280 --> 00:18:40.780
and you are making lots of little objects and

00:18:42.540 --> 00:18:42.920
after some time Emacs says,

00:18:45.260 --> 00:18:45.580
okay, I'm doing some cleanup for you.

00:18:46.260 --> 00:18:46.760
That's garbage collect.

00:18:49.040 --> 00:18:49.360
And I thought why not have garbage collect

00:18:52.000 --> 00:18:52.500
for the browser? You're doing this browsing

00:18:55.120 --> 00:18:55.320
and opening all these tabs and after some

00:18:58.020 --> 00:18:58.200
time there are lots of tabs and someone has

00:19:00.660 --> 00:19:01.160
to close them. So there's the C programmers,

00:19:03.160 --> 00:19:03.340
they do all the closing themselves and

00:19:03.960 --> 00:19:04.460
they're really meticulous,

00:19:06.060 --> 00:19:06.560
but it takes some time.

00:19:08.520 --> 00:19:09.020
And there's like my style,

00:19:12.880 --> 00:19:13.100
I just let it collect stuff and after some

00:19:16.220 --> 00:19:16.720
time I close the browser and start a new 1.

00:19:19.080 --> 00:19:19.280
And now there's the garbage collect that

00:19:20.800 --> 00:19:21.180
says, let it collect the browser,

00:19:22.640 --> 00:19:23.000
let the browser collect and then garbage

00:19:25.520 --> 00:19:25.960
collect. Let's say every morning the browser

00:19:28.140 --> 00:19:28.480
closes, Emacs closes all the browser tabs,

00:19:30.520 --> 00:19:30.860
but it keeps the information And it keeps

00:19:32.840 --> 00:19:33.340
text. Maybe you said like a tag yesterday

00:19:36.340 --> 00:19:36.840
like reading. I want to read this.

00:19:39.720 --> 00:19:39.960
And next time and then after that it's in the

00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:43.140
reading list. So garbage collector

00:19:45.020 --> 00:19:45.520
compaction. However you want to know this.

00:19:50.740 --> 00:19:51.240
1 thing I thought of while doing this is

00:19:57.380 --> 00:19:57.620
also, oh my time's up,

00:19:59.120 --> 00:19:59.620
so we're almost at Q&A.

00:20:04.120 --> 00:20:04.620
1 last thing, this whole project or program

00:20:06.360 --> 00:20:06.660
works via the Emacs event loop.

00:20:08.720 --> 00:20:08.880
So there's a server listening for the

00:20:11.840 --> 00:20:12.340
browser, waiting for infos from it.

00:20:16.320 --> 00:20:16.820
It works quite fine. I wasn't sure how much

00:20:20.940 --> 00:20:21.440
performance it will cost the browser,

00:20:23.120 --> 00:20:23.440
Emacs, but it works fine.

00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:27.240
But I wonder what's the limits of Emacs event

00:20:31.880 --> 00:20:32.280
loop. Like, can I go on forever adding server

00:20:34.440 --> 00:20:34.940
stuff? How big a server can Emacs get?

00:20:43.580 --> 00:20:44.080
I don't know. So that's some open questions

00:20:47.120 --> 00:20:47.620
to ponder. With that, thank you for listening

00:20:49.860 --> 00:20:50.360
and for your interest.

00:20:54.380 --> 00:20:54.640
I'd be pretty delighted to take some

00:20:57.740 --> 00:20:57.980
questions now. Great! Well,

00:20:58.680 --> 00:20:59.160
thank you so much, Michael.

00:21:01.280 --> 00:21:01.400
Thanks for the talk. And also thanks for

00:21:02.960 --> 00:21:03.460
going a little more in depth at the end.

00:21:05.800 --> 00:21:06.040
Is that what the extra stuff that you wanted

00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:08.500
to mention? Is it what you've done just now?

00:21:11.400 --> 00:21:11.900
Sorry, I didn't understand your last,

00:21:14.700 --> 00:21:14.860
your question. When we were preparing for

00:21:15.820 --> 00:21:16.320
your presentation with Sliv,

00:21:18.340 --> 00:21:18.420
you told me that you wanted to go perhaps a

00:21:20.380 --> 00:21:20.740
little more in-depth into the garbage

00:21:22.500 --> 00:21:22.640
collection. Is it what you wanted to do or do

00:21:24.080 --> 00:21:24.580
you still have some more to tell us about?

00:21:27.080 --> 00:21:27.580
I could tell more in-depth.

00:21:29.540 --> 00:21:30.040
Yes, garbage collection is just an idea.

00:21:35.740 --> 00:21:36.240
It's maybe... I don't know.

00:21:39.140 --> 00:21:39.480
Are there questions? There are questions,

00:21:41.720 --> 00:21:41.880
that's why. We have about 13 minutes to

00:21:43.380 --> 00:21:43.880
answer as many questions as possible.

00:21:46.960 --> 00:21:47.120
By the way, Sorry for the people who were

00:21:47.560 --> 00:21:48.040
watching the presentation.

00:21:49.040 --> 00:21:49.540
There's been a little bit of manipulation

00:21:51.820 --> 00:21:52.040
trying to get all the screens in order,

00:21:53.860 --> 00:21:54.360
but it's because I've got a very shitty ping

00:21:56.360 --> 00:21:56.600
to the streaming server that we use

00:21:59.380 --> 00:21:59.860
currently. So everything is like composite

00:22:00.360 --> 00:22:00.600
everything, But don't worry,

00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:02.440
Michael, everything will be very clean once

00:22:03.160 --> 00:22:03.660
we publish it afterwards.

00:22:05.140 --> 00:22:05.640
So what I'm going to do...

00:22:09.660 --> 00:22:10.160
Sorry, could you repeat?

00:22:13.020 --> 00:22:13.380
So it was not at my end because my internet

00:22:15.560 --> 00:22:16.060
connection is not the best 1 either.

00:22:17.800 --> 00:22:18.080
No, absolutely not. Oh,

00:22:19.640 --> 00:22:19.840
by the way, this reminds me as I am

00:22:20.740 --> 00:22:21.180
compositing the windows,

00:22:23.000 --> 00:22:23.300
you might remember in the talk by Bob earlier

00:22:25.380 --> 00:22:25.880
today, I said, oh, there's a phone vibrating.

00:22:28.680 --> 00:22:28.840
I thought it was coming from the big blue

00:22:30.600 --> 00:22:30.760
button, like the room in which we are right

00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:33.080
now. And I wasn't hallucinating just to be

00:22:34.440 --> 00:22:34.940
clear. It's just that 1 of the co-organizers

00:22:37.320 --> 00:22:37.820
behind on mumble had their phone vibrating

00:22:38.720 --> 00:22:39.160
and I was very confused.

00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:41.600
Anyway that's for the Okay,

00:22:42.440 --> 00:22:42.600
so everything is set up now.

00:22:43.280 --> 00:22:43.500
So what I'm gonna do, Michael,

00:22:44.760 --> 00:22:45.040
I'm gonna... If you're okay with this,

00:22:46.560 --> 00:22:46.960
Can I read you the question from the pad and

00:22:48.780 --> 00:22:48.960
can you answer them? Yes,

00:22:50.160 --> 00:22:50.660
of course. I would love to.

00:22:53.740 --> 00:22:53.940
Okay, lovely. I'm going to try my best to

00:22:56.380 --> 00:22:56.720
display the questions on the stream.

00:22:58.140 --> 00:22:58.440
Give me just a second and in the meantime

00:22:59.440 --> 00:22:59.940
I'll read you the first 1.

00:23:02.180 --> 00:23:02.680
So, have you seen the next browser?

00:23:05.020 --> 00:23:05.240
It is the Emacs of web browsers and would

00:23:07.540 --> 00:23:07.940
probably be easier to work with as it matches

00:23:08.900 --> 00:23:09.400
a lot closer to Emacs.

00:23:11.400 --> 00:23:11.640
I think you can tag your browser tabs for

00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:17.380
example. I saw it, I never tried it.

00:23:20.940 --> 00:23:21.360
I think you can do all the stuff and I think

00:23:23.620 --> 00:23:23.940
it's pretty good idea to use it if you want

00:23:26.480 --> 00:23:26.980
because have a look at this.

00:23:30.700 --> 00:23:31.200
This lovely thing is JavaScript and it's the

00:23:35.080 --> 00:23:35.320
browser side. It was quite tricky to get

00:23:40.180 --> 00:23:40.680
working so maybe it's easier if you use Nixt

00:23:47.460 --> 00:23:47.660
but I like to use Firefox and yeah there has

00:23:49.820 --> 00:23:50.000
to be a solution for Firefox too,

00:23:53.040 --> 00:23:53.480
I think. So next question,

00:23:55.900 --> 00:23:56.320
please. Lovely. All right,

00:23:59.480 --> 00:23:59.980
so nice ideas. Needs a better name though,

00:24:00.840 --> 00:24:01.280
to attract people to it.

00:24:02.920 --> 00:24:03.420
What about Browsys or Webnote?

00:24:08.400 --> 00:24:08.900
Browsys spelled B-R-O-W-S-Y-S or Webnote?

00:24:12.720 --> 00:24:13.220
Clearer this 1. Webnote and Browsys?

00:24:17.260 --> 00:24:18.300
With a Y, yes. So instead of an IAY.

00:24:21.140 --> 00:24:21.420
Ah, okay. Yes, why not?

00:24:25.240 --> 00:24:25.520
I take note. The name is maybe a little bit

00:24:28.020 --> 00:24:28.460
confusing. It's the name of a spider.

00:24:30.860 --> 00:24:31.160
It's like a spider that does an orb web.

00:24:31.920 --> 00:24:32.420
I found it via Wikipedia.

00:24:34.360 --> 00:24:34.480
I just wanted to have like something with the

00:24:37.640 --> 00:24:37.840
web because it's weaving something and

00:24:38.680 --> 00:24:39.180
there's also the web involved.

00:24:41.600 --> 00:24:41.980
I'm not set on the name.

00:24:44.640 --> 00:24:45.040
I'm not even set on the project yet how it

00:24:47.360 --> 00:24:47.520
will turn out. So what you're seeing now is

00:24:49.760 --> 00:24:49.940
something else than what I imagined when I

00:24:51.060 --> 00:24:51.560
was planning this talk.

00:24:54.880 --> 00:24:55.280
Yeah. That's right. Keep an open mind.

00:24:56.880 --> 00:24:57.140
Next question. You know what I'm going to say

00:24:58.900 --> 00:24:59.340
about the marketing of project names?

00:24:59.900 --> 00:25:00.400
You know, they're not,

00:25:01.640 --> 00:25:02.040
they don't make sense and they're not popular

00:25:02.880 --> 00:25:03.340
until they actually are.

00:25:06.040 --> 00:25:06.260
Like what would have predestined maggots to

00:25:07.680 --> 00:25:08.180
work as a name? Perhaps nothing.

00:25:10.940 --> 00:25:11.420
I mean it felt close to magic or maggots

00:25:12.540 --> 00:25:12.880
depending on the people you ask.

00:25:16.000 --> 00:25:16.160
So you know maybe your name Pultis will be a

00:25:18.160 --> 00:25:18.280
household name give or take 6 months or a

00:25:23.120 --> 00:25:23.260
year? Yes, maybe. Because- All right,

00:25:23.980 --> 00:25:24.340
moving on to the next question.

00:25:25.400 --> 00:25:25.900
Oh, unless you wanna add something.

00:25:28.740 --> 00:25:29.240
To expand a little bit on this name,

00:25:33.140 --> 00:25:33.640
I'm not sure where it stops.

00:25:35.460 --> 00:25:35.600
Like, is it really, it's just about the

00:25:37.740 --> 00:25:38.240
browser, What I just built is something more?

00:25:42.340 --> 00:25:42.580
So I'm not sure if I should limit the name

00:25:44.380 --> 00:25:44.880
here. Okay, now let's go on.

00:25:47.440 --> 00:25:47.700
You know what? You know what they say about

00:25:48.700 --> 00:25:49.180
programming, there's only 1 fundamental

00:25:50.720 --> 00:25:51.220
problem, no sorry, 2 fundamental problems,

00:25:53.400 --> 00:25:53.860
garbage collection and naming things.

00:25:55.200 --> 00:25:55.320
So you're stuck in the second 1 and you

00:25:56.200 --> 00:25:56.700
mentioned the first 1 as well.

00:25:59.580 --> 00:26:00.080
Alright, moving on to the next question.

00:26:01.860 --> 00:26:02.080
Can you use browser extensions with this,

00:26:03.700 --> 00:26:03.840
for example uBlock, SponsorBlock or

00:26:06.780 --> 00:26:07.120
Darkreader? Yes, of course.

00:26:09.020 --> 00:26:09.320
I think someone was maybe a little bit

00:26:11.140 --> 00:26:11.640
confused that the browser is inside Emacs.

00:26:14.540 --> 00:26:15.040
This is something totally normal for us ex-WM

00:26:18.040 --> 00:26:18.220
users. It's like every program for me is

00:26:21.040 --> 00:26:21.540
inside Emacs. This is just a normal Firefox.

00:26:24.320 --> 00:26:24.640
It just doesn't have like the window

00:26:26.580 --> 00:26:27.080
decoration. So there's of course there's,

00:26:31.360 --> 00:26:31.860
no, This is the ad blocker.

00:26:33.840 --> 00:26:34.340
I don't know why it's not working here.

00:26:38.560 --> 00:26:39.060
But you can have all you have in Firefox.

00:26:44.820 --> 00:26:44.920
OK. OK, lovely. Are you ready to move on to

00:26:45.920 --> 00:26:46.080
the next question? Or do you want to add

00:26:47.600 --> 00:26:48.100
something else? Yes, next question please.

00:26:51.100 --> 00:26:51.600
All right. So are there any inherent security

00:26:53.000 --> 00:26:53.500
issues with this, like bidirectional

00:26:55.640 --> 00:26:55.960
synchronization? Sounds like a possible

00:26:57.120 --> 00:26:57.620
issue. How are they solved?

00:27:00.660 --> 00:27:00.760
Can a malicious website impact Emacs or the

00:27:10.520 --> 00:27:11.020
host system? No, the website has no intro.

00:27:15.120 --> 00:27:15.620
It can do little stuff.

00:27:20.200 --> 00:27:20.700
There's this, it's a web extension,

00:27:22.880 --> 00:27:23.300
it's a browser extension inside the browser

00:27:24.800 --> 00:27:25.300
and it has like a limited interface.

00:27:27.440 --> 00:27:27.920
It uses a web extension API,

00:27:30.980 --> 00:27:31.480
there's a tabs API, you can listen on tabs,

00:27:33.820 --> 00:27:34.320
here you can tabs, browser tabs,

00:27:36.340 --> 00:27:36.820
Please notify me if there's 1 created,

00:27:37.600 --> 00:27:38.040
updated, moved, detached,

00:27:40.240 --> 00:27:40.520
attached, removed. So the people I think

00:27:44.020 --> 00:27:44.440
working at Google Chrome put some thought

00:27:49.540 --> 00:27:49.920
into it and at least this part seems quite

00:27:52.960 --> 00:27:53.300
well designed. Okay, next question,

00:27:56.880 --> 00:27:57.100
please. All right. So when do you think

00:27:57.880 --> 00:27:58.380
you'll make a first release?

00:28:00.220 --> 00:28:00.420
I hate needing browser extensions and would

00:28:01.680 --> 00:28:02.180
love to control my tabs in Emacs.

00:28:07.340 --> 00:28:07.540
Yes, I don't know. I would like to do it

00:28:09.400 --> 00:28:09.900
soon, but I have stuff to do.

00:28:13.260 --> 00:28:13.760
This is not the simplest project.

00:28:18.660 --> 00:28:19.020
What I can tell you, I will put the code

00:28:20.480 --> 00:28:20.980
online in the next days,

00:28:25.080 --> 00:28:25.360
maybe even next week, because it's not

00:28:27.980 --> 00:28:28.080
pretty, but it's also not bad and there's a

00:28:28.940 --> 00:28:29.440
lot of stuff there already.

00:28:32.120 --> 00:28:32.620
And For those who don't mind looking at

00:28:35.500 --> 00:28:36.000
unfinished things for inspiration or maybe

00:28:39.320 --> 00:28:39.820
their own work, I want to put it online.

00:28:43.620 --> 00:28:44.020
And if it's released, I will do some bigger

00:28:46.560 --> 00:28:46.860
announcement. And if it's getting released,

00:28:48.840 --> 00:28:49.040
can you write it back in Emacs console or

00:28:51.760 --> 00:28:51.940
conf, of course? Well,

00:28:53.440 --> 00:28:53.600
no pressure. Next year you need to have it

00:28:55.320 --> 00:28:55.580
released and you'll need to give us a GitHub

00:28:59.900 --> 00:29:00.060
page. Alright, moving on to the next

00:29:01.560 --> 00:29:01.880
question. What happened to the Sway

00:29:03.040 --> 00:29:03.540
compositor you showed last year?

00:29:06.720 --> 00:29:07.220
Yeah, that's like, this is the perfect

00:29:10.680 --> 00:29:11.180
question for like after the last 1.

00:29:12.600 --> 00:29:13.100
It's also not finished.

00:29:16.960 --> 00:29:17.120
And it's also not finished Because while I

00:29:19.160 --> 00:29:19.660
did a tech demo like I did this time,

00:29:20.740 --> 00:29:21.220
I'm sorry it's not finished,

00:29:23.480 --> 00:29:23.600
but I don't have that big a need for it and

00:29:25.080 --> 00:29:25.580
it's a lot of work to get it finished.

00:29:28.140 --> 00:29:28.640
Because it's a similar architecture,

00:29:31.940 --> 00:29:32.440
like this different server clients

00:29:35.640 --> 00:29:35.980
architecture stuff and Emacs is still in the

00:29:42.140 --> 00:29:42.640
callback hell time as you call it.

00:29:46.260 --> 00:29:46.440
So it's not that easy to get it working and I

00:29:49.540 --> 00:29:49.920
don't have that much need for a valent window

00:29:52.720 --> 00:29:52.920
manager because the other 1 still works and

00:29:54.520 --> 00:29:55.020
there's more interesting stuff to do.

00:29:58.020 --> 00:29:58.180
But also I know it has a lot of potential if

00:30:00.840 --> 00:30:01.000
it works and if it is released And I know a

00:30:02.320 --> 00:30:02.520
lot of people are waiting for it,

00:30:04.200 --> 00:30:04.700
so I have it in the back of my mind.

00:30:06.720 --> 00:30:07.220
And if someone else feels compelled,

00:30:10.460 --> 00:30:10.680
please take a look at the code and do

00:30:12.980 --> 00:30:13.340
something. Yeah, whoever asked the question,

00:30:14.120 --> 00:30:14.620
this is your task now.

00:30:17.580 --> 00:30:17.900
All right, moving on to the last question.

00:30:18.900 --> 00:30:19.140
We have about 4 minutes left,

00:30:20.160 --> 00:30:20.660
so it looks like we are...

00:30:22.660 --> 00:30:22.760
By the way, Michael was worried that he

00:30:24.200 --> 00:30:24.700
wouldn't have many questions to answer,

00:30:27.380 --> 00:30:27.560
and I am very proud to say and to prove you

00:30:29.540 --> 00:30:30.040
wrong. All right, next question.

00:30:31.920 --> 00:30:32.080
Does the browser have to be Firefox for

00:30:33.480 --> 00:30:33.980
syncing or is there a choice there?

00:30:39.020 --> 00:30:39.340
I think it's not. There's a choice.

00:30:42.180 --> 00:30:42.440
You can use any browser who supports web

00:30:43.940 --> 00:30:44.440
extensions. I think it's like a standardized

00:30:49.900 --> 00:30:50.080
interface. You can use any browser who does

00:30:52.440 --> 00:30:52.640
it. Chrome does it. But they're moving to a

00:30:55.260 --> 00:30:55.760
new web extension API to block ad blockers.

00:30:59.680 --> 00:31:00.040
I don't know if that does any turmoil for my

00:31:02.860 --> 00:31:03.360
extension and I frankly don't care that much.

00:31:05.680 --> 00:31:06.180
All right, fair answer.

00:31:09.960 --> 00:31:10.280
I don't see anyone who's joined us on BBB,

00:31:11.940 --> 00:31:12.080
by the way, we're going to move on with the

00:31:13.020 --> 00:31:13.480
stream to the next talk.

00:31:15.380 --> 00:31:15.660
But if you've got any questions for Michael,

00:31:17.320 --> 00:31:17.480
Feel free to join on BBB and ask your

00:31:19.280 --> 00:31:19.440
questions. I've said before that people tend

00:31:22.420 --> 00:31:22.860
to be shy and only join when the stream goes

00:31:25.900 --> 00:31:26.040
to a next talk. But I like to remind those

00:31:27.720 --> 00:31:27.880
people, eventually those talks are going to

00:31:28.280 --> 00:31:28.620
be published. Obviously,

00:31:30.480 --> 00:31:30.680
we'll make sure that nothing private was

00:31:31.720 --> 00:31:32.220
divulged during these discussions.

00:31:34.640 --> 00:31:34.760
But, you know, it's, if you can muster up the

00:31:35.580 --> 00:31:35.740
courage to go on the scene,

00:31:38.940 --> 00:31:39.160
it's always nice to have people join and ask

00:31:41.100 --> 00:31:41.400
questions. Michael, we have about 3 minutes

00:31:43.080 --> 00:31:43.580
left. Do you have any last words on perhaps

00:31:45.860 --> 00:31:46.240
anything to add on what you've presented

00:31:49.780 --> 00:31:50.160
today? Yeah, I just thought about maybe I

00:31:55.260 --> 00:31:55.760
show something. But there's this portals.

00:32:00.140 --> 00:32:00.380
Another thing, if someone has some more

00:32:02.540 --> 00:32:02.920
names, I would be quite interested because

00:32:03.900 --> 00:32:04.400
naming stuff is difficult.

00:32:11.600 --> 00:32:12.100
And this defines the database.

00:32:14.200 --> 00:32:14.700
There's the database definition.

00:32:16.440 --> 00:32:16.920
I call the database thingy,

00:32:19.600 --> 00:32:19.760
it's called Sponti. So I don't know what

00:32:20.840 --> 00:32:21.340
you're thinking about this name.

00:32:23.220 --> 00:32:23.720
So I think I want to have a database,

00:32:25.360 --> 00:32:25.860
it's called, it's this database.

00:32:28.360 --> 00:32:28.740
And then I define the database and I define

00:32:29.820 --> 00:32:30.060
the subject predicate object.

00:32:31.060 --> 00:32:31.560
So I have a browser session,

00:32:32.520 --> 00:32:33.020
browser session has tabs,

00:32:36.820 --> 00:32:37.320
a tab has, it comes from another tab maybe,

00:32:39.860 --> 00:32:40.360
or it shows an URL. A window,

00:32:42.180 --> 00:32:42.680
a session can also have a window,

00:32:44.600 --> 00:32:44.760
a window shows tabs. And then you can

00:32:46.120 --> 00:32:46.380
annotate stuff. You can say,

00:32:49.920 --> 00:32:50.100
okay, I have a node or a URL and I can tag it

00:32:51.600 --> 00:32:52.100
with a title, date, tag,

00:32:54.940 --> 00:32:55.440
or with another node or with body text.

00:32:58.640 --> 00:32:58.780
And I have an environment that's like a

00:33:01.420 --> 00:33:01.840
machine, the PC that's running on or Emacs

00:33:03.640 --> 00:33:03.840
itself. And then you have stuff about the

00:33:04.900 --> 00:33:05.280
machine and you have a client,

00:33:06.660 --> 00:33:07.160
this is the process session actually.

00:33:08.680 --> 00:33:09.180
So maybe I should change this.

00:33:17.680 --> 00:33:18.180
Okay. And 1 last thing.

00:33:20.020 --> 00:33:20.220
I have something I wanted to show you,

00:33:21.600 --> 00:33:22.100
but it didn't finish in time.

00:33:23.240 --> 00:33:23.480
Okay, Michael, just to be clear,

00:33:24.720 --> 00:33:25.220
you've got only 1 minute left.

00:33:27.880 --> 00:33:28.380
Yes, it's not that difficult.

00:33:30.140 --> 00:33:30.640
I wanted to integrate highlight.

00:33:32.300 --> 00:33:32.780
You just go to a web page,

00:33:35.660 --> 00:33:35.800
highlight stuff, do a right click and then it

00:33:39.320 --> 00:33:39.820
says save to Emacs. And you saved it to Emacs

00:33:42.500 --> 00:33:42.940
and it's there inside the node.

00:33:45.400 --> 00:33:45.900
But no, this 1 is not finished yet.

00:33:47.960 --> 00:33:48.240
You could do it live but there's no time

00:33:49.540 --> 00:33:50.040
left. So thank you for watching.

00:33:51.960 --> 00:33:52.180
Yes, and thank you so much,

00:33:54.000 --> 00:33:54.280
Michael, for taking the time to present and

00:33:54.960 --> 00:33:55.460
to answer the questions.

00:33:57.340 --> 00:33:57.540
The stream is going to move to the next talk

00:34:00.680 --> 00:34:01.080
in about 45 seconds. It's a talk by Wasem

00:34:02.680 --> 00:34:03.180
Masa, which I'm very excited about.

00:34:05.740 --> 00:34:06.240
And other than that, Michael,

00:34:08.239 --> 00:34:08.460
I'm looking forward to seeing you again next

00:34:10.760 --> 00:34:11.000
year with new GitHub repositories to share

00:34:12.500 --> 00:34:13.000
with us. Right? No pressure.

00:34:17.500 --> 00:34:17.900
And on that note, I wish you a very good day

00:34:19.400 --> 00:34:19.600
and I'll see you next time,

00:34:21.820 --> 00:34:22.199
I suppose. Yes, of course.

00:34:24.080 --> 00:34:24.580
I would like to do it next time again.

00:34:25.679 --> 00:34:26.179
It's a lot of fun. All right.

00:34:27.280 --> 00:34:27.780
Okay. Bye-bye, Michael.

00:34:33.580 --> 00:34:34.080
Bye-bye and thanks. All right.

00:34:35.540 --> 00:34:35.880
I think, yes. Okay. We finished.

00:34:36.460 --> 00:34:36.600
So, thank you so much,

00:34:38.199 --> 00:34:38.400
Michael. I need to get ready for the next

00:34:39.340 --> 00:34:39.840
talk. So I'll see you later.

00:34:40.920 --> 00:34:41.420
I'll see you later, sorry.

00:34:45.060 --> 00:34:45.560
Yes, see you. Bye-bye.

00:34:47.280 --> 00:34:47.560
You are currently the only person in this

00:34:47.560 --> 00:34:48.060
conference.