path: root/2022/captions/emacsconf-2022-sqlite--using-sqlite-as-a-data-source-a-framework-and-an-example--andrew-hyatt--answers.vtt

WEBVTT

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 All right. I think we're live. Thank you, Andrew, for the

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 great talk.

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 Folks, if you'd like to ask your questions, please post

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 them on the pad. And at some point

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 in like a minute or two, we'll also open this big blue

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 button room if you'd like to

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 join here directly and ask questions here. Take it away,

00:00:17.480 --> 00:00:18.000
 Andrew.

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 Yeah, thanks. So should I be reading the questions from the

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 pad? Yeah.

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 Yeah, that would be great.

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 OK, so I see there's a question about is this built into Em

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acs? I guess that refers to SQLite.

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 And is it possible to have multiple schemas, multiple

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 databases? Yes, you could do all that

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 with Emacs 29. SQLite is built in. You can open up multiple

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 databases simultaneously and do just

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 the normal things that you can do with databases. You can

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 create whatever tables you want.

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 You can create-- you can have transactions. So it's pretty

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 full featured. With SQLite,

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 there's also a notion of additions. You could kind of

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 compile new things into it. And I'm not

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 exactly sure to the extent that that is possible as well.

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 So it's like how full featured of a

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 SQLite is it? I'm not sure. But the basic stuff, you can

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 certainly do. And that basic stuff is

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 fantastic. Next question is, what about collaborative

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 editing with this? Can you

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 have multiple computers with multiple Emacs with org mode?

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 I think it sort of depends. Yes,

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 I mean, databases are fantastic for having multiple users

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 doing multiple things at the same time.

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 And they're really designed for this use case. So I would

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 say, yes, you could have multiple

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 editing of the database, multiple editing, whereas you see

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 some [AUDIO OUT] probably not the best

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 solution. I suspect it might be possible, but I wouldn't

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 want to try it. I think it's better for,

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 like, oh, you can have multiple processes, multiple users,

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 perhaps contributing to the

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 same database. And you're growing the database, but not

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 such tight synchronous interactivity that

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 I think you might be imagining here. What about using this

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 on multiple computers? How do you

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 synchronize your data? I don't know. I need to figure that

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 out. I think there's a-- like,

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 yes, you can synchronize your database in the same [AUDIO

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 OUT] Emacs doesn't have any great

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 solutions for this. That is, like, when-- let's say I want

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 to synchronize the things I'm editing

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 on Emacs with my phone. There's all sorts of various

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 solutions. You could use Dropbox, Google

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 Drive, these kinds of things. The database makes that a

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 little bit harder in the sense that it's

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 one giant database. I suspect there are interesting ways to

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 do this, but I haven't explored this area

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 yet. I think it's a great question, though, and I would

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 like to investigate this further.

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 Are you planning to further-- this is a new other question.

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 Are you planning to further develop EKG?

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 It's highly [AUDIO OUT] me, and I do prefer SQLite over

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 Text. Thank you for buying into

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 the vision. I really like to hear that. Yeah, I am

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 personally using EKG. I am developing it.

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 I don't think it's ready for general use yet. I'd like to

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 get it to a state where it is ready

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 for general use probably by the end of the month. I think I

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'll have a lot of time. There's a pretty

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 slow month. So that would be really nice. I've just added a

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 bunch of stuff to it.

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 I'm exploring. I think the difficult thing is not

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 necessarily to make it production,

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 like to make it stable and everything like that and to do

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 all the developer things that you want

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 to see in the state of the art era, but really, it's a

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 different model of how to have notes.

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 I'm still thinking about some of these fundamental concepts

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. It took me a long

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 time to iterate on various designs before I came up with EK

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G, which I think is [AUDIO OUT]

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 and so we're going to really see how this goes. But yes,

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 look for it soon. I'll probably announce it

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 and maybe on email. And then I will make it available

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 probably maybe on

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 new alpha is what I would like to do. Is it possible to

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 combine the

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 triples database with some custom tables in the same SQLite

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 file? Yes. I'm sorry. Let me continue

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 reading. You need to build a log table next to the triples

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 table or a quick query of event data.

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 Yeah, you certainly could do that. And I've been thinking

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 of adding,

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 like, just having a record of changes might be an

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 interesting thing. But yeah, it's just one table

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 and you really could use this one table called triples, the

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 triples table, in any other database

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 or with any other database. It's kind of designed to be its

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 own database though. But yeah, you could

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 certainly add things to the side and I can imagine people

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 writing extensions that do

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 add some tables to the side to do whatever. It's just that

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 I think you want to be careful because

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 that once you start doing that, you might want to, you don

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't want to kind of duplicate information or

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 start having things go out of sync. It's kind of nice just

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 to have one kind of data. But I think

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 in certain circumstances, like the kind you're thinking

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 about, it'd be appropriate. Yeah, so

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 seems like a good idea. And then I see this final question

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 here, final for now. What are your

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 thoughts on adding a timestamp attribute to triple so that

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 the database becomes append-only and by

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 default you return the latest fact for a subject-object

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 pair? Oh, really interesting question.

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 Let's just say I haven't thought of that and I'll have to

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 think about it. I don't think,

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 I haven't seen other triples databases do this. I'd be

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 interested in what you thought

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 would be some of the, what you thought might be some of the

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 interesting

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 things that come out of this. Yes, you can maybe go back in

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 time, which is nice,

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 but then it seems hard to do things like deletes. I guess

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 you could have tombstones or something

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 like that, but it becomes a little bit more complicated.

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 And also just one thing is like,

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 these kind of databases, I didn't really talk about this in

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 the talk, but they take up a little

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 bit of room and I'm a little bit reluctant to have them

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 even more kind of heavyweight.

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 On the other hand, perhaps this would go well with the

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 question about synchronization. If you

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 were to do as you suggest and have timestamped triples,

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 synchronization actually becomes pretty

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 easy. So definitely an interesting thought that I'll have

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 to think a little bit more about. I

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 would love to solve the synchronization problem. All right.

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 I don't see any other, oh yeah,

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 I don't see any other questions, but you can ask on this,

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 on the big blue button or type in any

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 other questions. Otherwise I think we might be done. Cool.

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 And I will add that. I think we still

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 have about like, I guess, 15 minutes or so of live Q&A talk

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 for this talk on stream. If there are no

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 questions, you're welcome to cut it short, but otherwise we

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 have plenty of time. So yeah, if

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 people want to get more questions in, please do. I'm just

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 going to sit back and wait for the

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 questions to roll in then. Sounds good. Thank you.

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 All right. I see another question pop up.

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 With EKG, what about views like org-roam-node-mindmap-views

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? Yeah. I personally have

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 not found those views to be super helpful, but I know

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 people like them a lot. I don't see any

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 reason why you couldn't do this. It just would be a

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 slightly different implementation. Like this

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 stuff forms a graph. You can do whatever you, you know, you

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 could easily transform it like that same

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 org-roam UI. You just have to have like another sort of

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 translation layer basically to kind of

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 like figure out how to deal with the stuff in EKG or really

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 anything with triples. Like fundamentally

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 it's a graph database, so it lends itself naturally to

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 things that you're going to be doing,

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 that anything you're going to be doing with the triples

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 library.

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 [silence]

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 I see another question. Can ordinary Lisp data types, Lisp

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 symbols, etc. be stored in the

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 database? Yes, they can. In fact, it's primarily like if

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 you don't specify anything, it kind of

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 defaults to a list. That's sort of, I'm not exactly sure

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 that's the right design choice, but that's

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 kind of, it seems like a lot of the times it, this kind of

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 makes sense. Like what if I just added

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 like a title, I think, if I remember. I did add a title,

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 but I'm trying to remember. If I just added

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 the notion of like having a title to EKG and I believe that

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's a list. Because you think about it,

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 you could maybe have alternate titles or multiple titles.

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 So these are ordered lists and so it kind

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 of stores it. So basically what happens is you store in the

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 list of like, but each list item is

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 a separate row in the table and it has, we call them tri

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ples, but there's actually one more column

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 that I don't talk about a lot because it just confuses the

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 story. But in this case it's relevant

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 because there you just say what the index is of the item

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 that you're doing it. So like you'd be

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 subject and then the predicate would be title in a sense.

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 And then title one and then like,

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 okay, that's index one on the fourth column. And then same

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 thing with the other items.

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 You can store symbols, SQLite and Emac SQL allow you to

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 sort of kind of, well, Emac SQL kind of

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 naturally lets you store lots of different things. And SQL

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ite, I kind of had to do something that

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 was very similar to Emac SQL. Emac SQL, in SQL, you have to

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 just, in your database, it basically

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 has to be string. Like almost everything besides the predic

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ates, like the object has to be a string

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 because it could really be anything. And the subject has to

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 be a string because it could be

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 anything. And because of that, we kind of have to make sure

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 that we kind of have to just store

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 things in a certain way. Like symbols are just strings and

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 lists. You could even have a list,

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 you could have really any list expression as a subject,

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 right? But it gets just written to a

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 string and then it gets, when it gets read, it basically,

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 if it's just a string, it gets read

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 basically as a list symbol or expression. And if it's a

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 string, it's a string with a string inside,

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 that is like the string actually has quotes on either end.

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 Then we say it's actually a string.

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 That's how kind of the internal implementation works. And

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 that's what Emac SQL does as well.

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 For those who are not familiar, Emac SQL is like this other

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 way to kind of interact with SQL in

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 your databases and it works well with SQLite and allows you

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 to do things like store numbers and

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 lists as well. And it does this exact same thing. So we try

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 to keep compatibility.

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 So you could start a database in Emacs 28 using Emacs SQL

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 and then you could read it with Emacs 29

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 using the built in SQLite. That's the hope. I mean, I have

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 tests, but I don't think anyone

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 has actually tried to do that exact thing yet. Let's see.

00:13:35.050 --> 00:13:39.040
 Are there any other new questions?

00:13:39.040 --> 00:13:44.240
 Oh, there are some. Beyond note taking, what kind of

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 packages do you

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 think would benefit from a triple library? I think,

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 I mean, I think it's generally just an easy way to store

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 things. So

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 anything in which you, think of packages that have to store

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 like

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 list expressions on the side. Like for example, like BBDB,

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 if you've used that,

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 it's just a, it is a database. It's the big brother

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 database. It's not in a database because

00:14:17.200 --> 00:14:19.890
 it was written before. Like there was an easy way to use

00:14:19.890 --> 00:14:22.480
 databases in Emacs. Like that should,

00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:24.640
 that could definitely, like you don't need the triples

00:14:24.640 --> 00:14:26.160
 library, but you could easily do this

00:14:26.160 --> 00:14:31.120
 in the triples library. And I would kind of think triples,

00:14:31.120 --> 00:14:33.120
 you know, just takes care of a lot of

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 things and gives a little option over everything. So I mean

00:14:37.280 --> 00:14:39.760
, there's all sorts of things like,

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 as I, as I kind of demoed like bookmarks, like why are book

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marks not in the database? They should be.

00:14:43.920 --> 00:14:48.150
 So I think if you just look around and look at all these,

00:14:48.150 --> 00:14:50.640
 all these things as,

00:14:51.280 --> 00:14:55.680
 as just, just dumping, dumping list expressions to a file,

00:14:55.680 --> 00:14:57.440
 those probably

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 SQLite and, and, you know, maybe triples would be a useful

00:15:01.870 --> 00:15:03.200
 way to do that.

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 Are you, another question, are you trying to PIM? I think

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 that means personal information management

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 with EKG. And what information do you want to manage? I'm

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 kind of wondering

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 how I, what I want to do, but like, as I just said in the

00:15:21.400 --> 00:15:23.440
 previous question, like, I think

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 you should be storing everything. Yeah. Like libraries,

00:15:26.960 --> 00:15:28.880
 like, yeah, actually, yeah. BBBB,

00:15:28.880 --> 00:15:32.180
 you can store contacts and email addresses. And I would

00:15:32.180 --> 00:15:34.320
 like to, you know, why, if you're storing

00:15:34.320 --> 00:15:37.110
 that, then it's kind of natural, like, oh, well, you know,

00:15:37.110 --> 00:15:38.880
 sometimes I want to have a annotation.

00:15:38.880 --> 00:15:41.380
 I want to write something about this person and, you know,

00:15:41.380 --> 00:15:44.000
 maybe I want to have something and have,

00:15:46.400 --> 00:15:48.930
 you know, maybe I want to tag this person. Maybe I want to,

00:15:48.930 --> 00:15:53.200
 maybe I want to have notes that refer

00:15:53.200 --> 00:15:55.700
 to this person. So like, it all starts to look like one

00:15:55.700 --> 00:15:57.280
 giant database when I, when you kind

00:15:57.280 --> 00:16:01.120
 of think about it a lot, which is kind of why in a, if you

00:16:01.120 --> 00:16:04.800
 look at the develop, develop branch of

00:16:04.800 --> 00:16:08.290
 triples, I, I'm work, I think what's going to be in the

00:16:08.290 --> 00:16:10.400
 next version is, is going to be a

00:16:10.400 --> 00:16:14.110
 standardized place to, to have a database. That is, you can

00:16:14.110 --> 00:16:17.360
 just connect to a, to a, the standard

00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:19.360
 database and you don't have to worry about where the

00:16:19.360 --> 00:16:21.280
 database is. We'll keep track of that for you.

00:16:21.280 --> 00:16:27.540
 And, and then everything should be working very easily and

00:16:27.540 --> 00:16:30.320
 like allow this kind of collaborative

00:16:30.320 --> 00:16:32.770
 use of, of these things. So like, yeah, it could be a

00:16:32.770 --> 00:16:34.720
 personal information manager that has all

00:16:34.720 --> 00:16:37.330
 sorts of information because I think that's what people

00:16:37.330 --> 00:16:39.440
 tend to use Emacs for is that, you know,

00:16:39.440 --> 00:16:43.610
 I have my own notes, my own contacts, my own tasks, you

00:16:43.610 --> 00:16:46.080
 know, why aren't tasks in, tasks should

00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:49.820
 also perhaps be in, in, in the database. Like, yeah, it's

00:16:49.820 --> 00:16:52.000
 kind of, org mode is completely awesome,

00:16:52.000 --> 00:16:56.110
 like really incredible. And it's, it's nice to mix to do's

00:16:56.110 --> 00:16:58.480
 with things with text, but sometimes

00:16:58.480 --> 00:17:01.850
 maybe you just want to do's that are not with text and

00:17:01.850 --> 00:17:04.160
 maybe those could be also in the database.

00:17:04.160 --> 00:17:06.050
 I don't know. It's just things I, things I'm thinking about

00:17:06.050 --> 00:17:07.200
. I'm not sure how far I want to

00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:12.160
 take that. Another question. What about using other

00:17:12.160 --> 00:17:16.000
 database programs like Postgres, MonoDB?

00:17:16.000 --> 00:17:27.550
 You, so I think you could, yes, you could do that. I don't

00:17:27.550 --> 00:17:29.920
 see it's a, I don't know why you,

00:17:29.920 --> 00:17:32.720
 I don't know if there's any advantage to doing this. Like

00:17:32.720 --> 00:17:35.280
 SQLite is kind of nice because it is

00:17:35.280 --> 00:17:38.490
 light. It is kind of, it is built into Emacs and we don't

00:17:38.490 --> 00:17:39.760
 really need anything incredibly

00:17:39.760 --> 00:17:42.210
 sophisticated here. Just having a database is like such a

00:17:42.210 --> 00:17:43.680
 higher level of sophistication than

00:17:43.680 --> 00:17:47.500
 what we've been doing in Emacs are so far. Then you know, I

00:17:47.500 --> 00:17:50.000
 think the other stuff might be overkill,

00:17:50.000 --> 00:17:52.800
 but I see no reason why it wouldn't work. I just don't

00:17:52.800 --> 00:17:54.640
 really see if there's really any big

00:17:54.640 --> 00:18:00.620
 advantages. What is your preferred reference to underscan

00:18:00.620 --> 00:18:04.960
 triples graph DBs? To sort of think

00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:07.330
 about better schema design? Oh, that's a really awesome

00:18:07.330 --> 00:18:12.480
 question. And I would, I don't, I don't

00:18:12.480 --> 00:18:15.570
 think I can answer that immediately. I kind of know all

00:18:15.570 --> 00:18:17.520
 this stuff from talking to people

00:18:17.520 --> 00:18:21.730
 basically, instead of like reading things. And like in my

00:18:21.730 --> 00:18:25.040
 work, I use these triples. That is,

00:18:25.040 --> 00:18:28.100
 that's kind of like, you know, I kind of work on a

00:18:28.100 --> 00:18:30.560
 knowledge graph. So I just have a, from,

00:18:30.560 --> 00:18:35.860
 you know, working knowledge of how these things work. So,

00:18:35.860 --> 00:18:38.400
 but it is an awesome question that let

00:18:38.400 --> 00:18:41.530
 me, let me look into it after I kind of finished this and I

00:18:41.530 --> 00:18:43.440
'll, I'll try to fill it in, in the,

00:18:43.440 --> 00:18:47.210
 in the either pad that is connected to this talk. So thank

00:18:47.210 --> 00:18:49.200
 you for that great question.

00:18:49.200 --> 00:18:53.960
 So another question, will it slow down with the growth of a

00:18:53.960 --> 00:18:56.960
 database? Yeah, I need to do

00:18:56.960 --> 00:19:00.040
 tests about this. Cause I'd like to see like how much, how

00:19:00.040 --> 00:19:01.360
 much the database blows up,

00:19:01.360 --> 00:19:05.120
 how much it slows down for sure. Triples is not the most

00:19:05.120 --> 00:19:07.360
 efficient way. It's not even close

00:19:07.360 --> 00:19:10.650
 to being a greatly efficient way to store data for doing

00:19:10.650 --> 00:19:13.120
 any arbitrary things. But what it is,

00:19:13.120 --> 00:19:17.510
 it you're trading off standardization, which is, so you get

00:19:17.510 --> 00:19:19.600
 standardization, but you lose,

00:19:19.600 --> 00:19:24.880
 you lose the power of getting things in one SQL expression.

00:19:24.880 --> 00:19:26.480
 So you often have to kind of like do

00:19:26.480 --> 00:19:31.400
 a bunch of round trips and that's slow. However, I I'm

00:19:31.400 --> 00:19:36.320
 using this now. I have a bunch of data

00:19:36.320 --> 00:19:40.440
 and you know, quite a bit. I've, I kind of poured it over

00:19:40.440 --> 00:19:42.720
 my old org Rome to, to EKG.

00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:45.860
 And you know, I've been accumulating stuff in our room for

00:19:45.860 --> 00:19:47.920
 like, you know, two years now,

00:19:47.920 --> 00:19:52.510
 and it's pretty big, but it's very fast, really just no, no

00:19:52.510 --> 00:19:55.200
 problems at all. So yes, I'm sure

00:19:55.200 --> 00:20:00.750
 that there is a, a size in which it's too big to be fast.

00:20:00.750 --> 00:20:04.400
 But I haven't hit it. And I suspect for

00:20:04.400 --> 00:20:09.230
 most ordinary uses of, of, of Emacs, I doubt other people

00:20:09.230 --> 00:20:12.160
 will hit it as well. I mean, it's kind of

00:20:12.160 --> 00:20:14.380
 similar to, you know, when people think about org Rome and

00:20:14.380 --> 00:20:15.760
 things like, well, you know, you're

00:20:15.760 --> 00:20:17.980
 storing everything in one database, like how many notes

00:20:17.980 --> 00:20:19.520
 could have possibly hold, like that's also

00:20:19.520 --> 00:20:25.980
 going to get slow. Right. So yeah, it's, it's I think these

00:20:25.980 --> 00:20:29.760
 limits exist, but people tend not to

00:20:29.760 --> 00:20:32.480
 hit them and it's like, yes, this is going to get slow, but

00:20:32.480 --> 00:20:34.320
 it'll certainly do better. I think that

00:20:34.320 --> 00:20:38.850
 files in the file system. What are the, here's another

00:20:38.850 --> 00:20:41.920
 question. What are your thoughts on

00:20:41.920 --> 00:20:47.130
 allowing for a true graph DB backend? Whatever the current

00:20:47.130 --> 00:20:50.480
 best free software alternative to Neo4j

00:20:50.480 --> 00:20:54.710
 is, I guess. Okay. Great question. I've actually, yeah, I

00:20:54.710 --> 00:20:57.360
 actually used graph databases and several

00:20:57.360 --> 00:21:00.580
 companies I used to work for and you know, but we always

00:21:00.580 --> 00:21:03.040
 ended up switching to SQL. I like it's,

00:21:03.040 --> 00:21:08.000
 it's I can't, it's just at least for serious applications,

00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:10.080
 they tended to be slow and

00:21:10.880 --> 00:21:14.310
 lend themselves to a use that was not, that was very iter

00:21:14.310 --> 00:21:16.480
ative and not very well thought out.

00:21:16.480 --> 00:21:23.880
 So however, I don't think it's as I said, with the last

00:21:23.880 --> 00:21:28.720
 question for the way people want to,

00:21:28.720 --> 00:21:31.090
 you know, the kind of data I think Emacs users will want, I

00:21:31.090 --> 00:21:32.480
 think a graph database would work

00:21:32.480 --> 00:21:36.610
 quite well. I don't know if there would be like, what are

00:21:36.610 --> 00:21:38.720
 the advantages over triples

00:21:38.720 --> 00:21:41.700
 aside from sort of just a more, you don't have to kind of

00:21:41.700 --> 00:21:43.440
 even deal with the SQL layer, but like,

00:21:43.440 --> 00:21:46.040
 I'm kind of, I'm kind of building, you know, with triples,

00:21:46.040 --> 00:21:47.760
 we're sort of like, don't even worry about

00:21:47.760 --> 00:21:50.220
 what the layer is, right? It's just, you don't even have to

00:21:50.220 --> 00:21:51.920
 worry about SQL if you're just using

00:21:51.920 --> 00:21:57.040
 kind of the normal functionality. So you can yeah. So, you

00:21:57.040 --> 00:22:00.160
 know, maybe there are interesting

00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:02.670
 implications for using a graph database, but I can't really

00:22:02.670 --> 00:22:03.680
 think of any right now.

00:22:03.680 --> 00:22:09.910
 It's a good question though. Thank you. - And I'll quickly

00:22:09.910 --> 00:22:10.880
 add that we have about,

00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:14.850
 I think two more minutes ish on this live stream. And then

00:22:14.850 --> 00:22:17.120
 folks are welcome to either join here for

00:22:17.120 --> 00:22:19.560
 continuing the Q and A or keep posting questions on the pad

00:22:19.560 --> 00:22:21.040
 and you can continue here in this room

00:22:21.040 --> 00:22:24.000
 after the stream moves on. - Okay. In that case, I'll,

00:22:24.000 --> 00:22:28.320
 I will stick around until I don't get any more questions

00:22:28.320 --> 00:22:30.080
 for a few minutes, then I'll probably

00:22:31.200 --> 00:22:33.440
 log off. - Sounds great. Thank you.

00:22:33.440 --> 00:22:35.440
 - Yeah.

00:22:58.960 --> 00:23:02.640
 - I'm hungry. Did I get writing and recording this? So I

00:23:02.640 --> 00:23:06.560
 actually did a month ago. So like,

00:23:06.560 --> 00:23:10.530
 I don't even, I hardly even remember what it was, what that

00:23:10.530 --> 00:23:12.160
 time was like, but yes, it's,

00:23:12.160 --> 00:23:14.480
 it took a long time. These things, you know, these

00:23:14.480 --> 00:23:16.480
 recordings are a little bit challenging. And in

00:23:16.480 --> 00:23:18.780
 fact, I only kind of screwed up in several instances of the

00:23:18.780 --> 00:23:20.240
 recording. And like, I just,

00:23:20.240 --> 00:23:22.240
 I just don't have energy to kind of keep redoing. It's like

00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:23.760
, it's a long recording. It's also,

00:23:23.760 --> 00:23:26.000
 I think I chopped it up into three bits. I'm not sure if it

00:23:26.000 --> 00:23:27.600
 was that, is that obvious, but like,

00:23:27.600 --> 00:23:31.860
 I guess, notes for people doing future sessions, it's like,

00:23:31.860 --> 00:23:35.680
 make sure you have natural pauses that

00:23:35.680 --> 00:23:39.860
 you can sort of just like record a segment because

00:23:39.860 --> 00:23:42.880
 something would inevitably go wrong. And then like,

00:23:42.880 --> 00:23:45.200
 if you're trying to repeat a 20 minute talk, it just takes

00:23:45.200 --> 00:23:48.720
 forever. Yes. Oh yeah. The recipes.

00:23:48.720 --> 00:23:54.230
 That's right. Yeah. I, well, yes, I'm glad you enjoyed the

00:23:54.230 --> 00:23:56.480
 recipe. This is great. You put the

00:23:56.480 --> 00:23:59.800
 recipes in there. Like one thing that I think is, is useful

00:23:59.800 --> 00:24:01.840
 for, you know, regardless of what

00:24:01.840 --> 00:24:06.110
 thing you're using in org-roam or EKG or whatever, you know

00:24:06.110 --> 00:24:08.240
, when you're making a recipe,

00:24:08.240 --> 00:24:11.230
 you know, record in your daily diary, like, you know, when

00:24:11.230 --> 00:24:12.800
 you, what you did it, if it worked,

00:24:12.800 --> 00:24:16.160
 like what, what, you know, what adjustments you had to make

00:24:16.160 --> 00:24:17.760
, how it turned out, how it could be

00:24:17.760 --> 00:24:21.320
 better. Then like, if it's linked to the recipe, then you

00:24:21.320 --> 00:24:23.040
 have a kind of a record of like, oh,

00:24:23.040 --> 00:24:25.720
 these are, you know, not just the recipe, but like your

00:24:25.720 --> 00:24:27.840
 experiences making the recipe. I think

00:24:27.840 --> 00:24:32.140
 it's really powerful because then you can see how, you know

00:24:32.140 --> 00:24:34.480
, you can kind of refine, refine and

00:24:34.480 --> 00:24:37.030
 refine. It's really hard to do this in other ways. Like if

00:24:37.030 --> 00:24:38.640
 just, you're just using your memory,

00:24:38.640 --> 00:24:40.730
 you're, you're kind of like, well, it's, I can't remember

00:24:40.730 --> 00:24:42.000
 what I did the last time I made this

00:24:42.000 --> 00:24:45.940
 recipe, but like, you know, it seems a little bit extreme,

00:24:45.940 --> 00:24:48.240
 but I think it's quite useful to use

00:24:48.240 --> 00:25:01.720
 these note-taking applications for this use case. Okay. I

00:25:01.720 --> 00:25:03.440
 think the stream has moved on, but again,

00:25:03.440 --> 00:25:05.620
 you're all welcome to stay here and continue to Q&A as long

00:25:05.620 --> 00:25:06.720
 as there are any questions.

00:25:06.720 --> 00:25:13.440
 Thank you for your moderation.

00:25:15.120 --> 00:25:19.920
 Cheers. Happy to. Thanks for the great talk.

00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:21.200


00:25:21.200 --> 00:25:23.200
 [end of transcript]

00:25:46.080 --> 00:25:49.120
 While I see if there's any more questions, I'm going to

00:25:49.120 --> 00:25:50.320
 fill in, I think not, not all

00:25:50.320 --> 00:25:52.710
 the replies are filled in. So I'm going to start filling in

00:25:52.710 --> 00:25:53.200
 this, you know,

00:25:53.200 --> 00:25:56.240
 the pad that's associated with this.

00:25:56.400 --> 00:25:56.400


00:25:56.400 --> 00:25:58.400
 [end of transcript]

00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:00.160


00:26:00.160 --> 00:26:00.560
 Okay.

00:26:02.560 --> 00:26:02.560


00:26:02.560 --> 00:26:04.560
 [end of transcript]

00:26:04.560 --> 00:26:14.560
 Okay.

00:26:16.560 --> 00:26:16.560


00:26:16.560 --> 00:26:18.560
 [end of transcript]

00:26:20.560 --> 00:26:20.560


00:26:20.560 --> 00:26:20.560
 Okay.

00:26:22.560 --> 00:26:22.560


00:26:22.560 --> 00:26:22.560
 Okay.

00:26:24.560 --> 00:26:24.560


00:26:24.560 --> 00:26:24.560
 Okay.

00:26:26.560 --> 00:26:26.560


00:26:26.560 --> 00:26:26.560
 Okay.

00:26:28.560 --> 00:26:28.560


00:26:28.560 --> 00:26:28.560
 Okay.

00:26:30.560 --> 00:26:30.560


00:26:30.560 --> 00:26:30.560
 Okay.

00:26:32.560 --> 00:26:32.560


00:26:32.560 --> 00:26:32.560
 Okay.

00:26:34.560 --> 00:26:34.560


00:26:34.560 --> 00:26:34.560
 Okay.

00:26:36.560 --> 00:26:36.560


00:26:36.560 --> 00:26:36.560
 Okay.

00:26:36.560 --> 00:26:46.560
 Okay.

00:26:46.560 --> 00:26:56.560
 Okay.

00:26:56.560 --> 00:27:06.560
 Okay.

00:27:06.560 --> 00:27:16.560
 Okay.

00:27:16.560 --> 00:27:26.560
 Okay.

00:27:26.560 --> 00:27:36.560
 Okay.

00:27:36.560 --> 00:27:46.560
 Okay.

00:27:46.560 --> 00:27:56.560
 Okay.

00:27:56.560 --> 00:28:06.560
 Okay.

00:28:06.560 --> 00:28:16.560
 Okay.

00:28:16.560 --> 00:28:26.560
 Okay.

00:28:26.560 --> 00:28:36.560
 Okay.

00:28:36.560 --> 00:28:46.560
 Okay.

00:28:46.560 --> 00:28:56.560
 Okay.

00:28:56.560 --> 00:29:06.560
 Okay.

00:29:06.560 --> 00:29:16.560
 Okay.

00:29:16.560 --> 00:29:26.560
 Okay.

00:29:26.560 --> 00:29:36.560
 Okay.

00:29:36.560 --> 00:29:46.560
 Okay.

00:29:46.560 --> 00:29:56.560
 Okay.

00:29:56.560 --> 00:30:06.560
 Okay.

00:30:06.560 --> 00:30:16.560
 Okay.

00:30:16.560 --> 00:30:26.560
 Okay.

00:30:26.560 --> 00:30:30.560
 All right. I, there's no one here and I don't like any

00:30:30.560 --> 00:30:35.360
 other questions. So I am going to log out. Thank you

00:30:35.360 --> 00:30:36.560
 everyone for your questions.

00:30:36.560 --> 00:30:38.560
 [end of transcript]

00:30:40.560 --> 00:30:40.560