path: root/2022/captions/emacsconf-2022-rde--rde-emacs-introduction--andrew-tropin--answers.vtt

WEBVTT

00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:02.160
 We'll hit start recording.

00:00:02.160 --> 00:00:03.400
 All right, everyone.

00:00:03.400 --> 00:00:05.840
 Thanks, Andrew, for the great talk.

00:00:05.840 --> 00:00:06.840
 Super cool.

00:00:06.840 --> 00:00:09.240
 So now we have the live Q&A with Andrew.

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 Folks, you can start by asking your questions on the pad.

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 And we will also open up this big blue button

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 room in a few minutes for folks who

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 want to join here and ask questions here directly

00:00:19.920 --> 00:00:21.320
 to Andrew.

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 Thanks again, and take it away, Andrew.

00:00:24.080 --> 00:00:26.400
 OK, thank you.

00:00:26.400 --> 00:00:29.720
 Let's start from pod questions.

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 The first one, do I use this to have multiple configs

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 running

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 side by side for deep comparison?

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 Actually, I have two configurations primary here.

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 The first one is my main configuration

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 for the whole environment, which manages all the dot files.

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 And the second one is virtualenv-like.

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 It creates a new shell with some environment variables.

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 It's set inside it.

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 And it includes Emacs load path and other things

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 to make Emacs able to explore packages

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 inside this small environment.

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 And it removes all unnecessary environment variables,

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 which pollutes the environment.

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 So we have quite a small scope on which only Emacs

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 and a few other packages are available.

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 And as you saw at the end of the talk,

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 it was the example of such small environment

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 where I set up Emacs and all the dependencies from ground

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 up.

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 And actually, the similar thing I

00:01:40.760 --> 00:01:43.760
 use for development of my projects,

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 I have their project environments

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 made in the same way.

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 But usually, I use my primary Emacs instance.

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 But sometimes, it can be kind of mixed.

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 I have a few talks on my YouTube channel.

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 And you can check them out to get more information about it

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.

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 The second--

00:02:04.560 --> 00:02:05.060
 Sorry.

00:02:05.060 --> 00:02:06.320
 One quick request, Andrew.

00:02:06.320 --> 00:02:08.780
 People are saying if you could maybe speak up a little bit

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 more so that they could hear you better, that would be

00:02:11.170 --> 00:02:11.760
 great.

00:02:11.760 --> 00:02:12.840
 OK, sure.

00:02:12.840 --> 00:02:14.560
 Thank you.

00:02:14.560 --> 00:02:16.760
 The second question.

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 Are you using Gix system or Gix on top of another distro?

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 If system, any tips?

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 I tried Gix system, but found getting started

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 was very difficult due to lack of Wi-Fi firmware

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 and incomplete documentation.

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 Personally, I use Gix system, Gix home,

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 Gix as a package manager, and also as a deployment tool

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 for a few services.

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 I started from very basic setup where I didn't have

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 anything

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 and build it piece by piece, including

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 building Gix home project.

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 So yeah, I use Gix system and all the things.

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 And talking about Wi-Fi, first option

00:03:02.040 --> 00:03:04.680
 is to buy a Wi-Fi adapter, which doesn't

00:03:04.680 --> 00:03:07.080
 require proprietary firmware.

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 And another option is finding the firmware and installing

00:03:11.040 --> 00:03:12.000
 it.

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 So it's up to you.

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 Everything actually is relatively easy,

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 and you can relatively easy find the way to do it.

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 The third question.

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 One of the issues I have had managing Emacs packages

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 with Gix is a conflict between Gix package

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 attest read-only and the Emacs package

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 attest hackable in real time.

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 Any suggestions to resolve this?

00:03:40.680 --> 00:03:45.600
 Yes, I have suggestions to resolve this.

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 Actually, it's true.

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 Everything which is in GNU store is read-only.

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 Everything which is built with Gix is almost set in stone,

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 and you can't edit it in real time.

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 But what I do--

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 can I share my screen?

00:04:03.760 --> 00:04:09.160
 One second.

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 I will press a few buttons, and I hope you will see it soon

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.

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 Or maybe not so soon.

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 What I basically do, I take parts of the ELISP,

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 and I have them inside my scheme file

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 that I use to define my home environment and other things.

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 I don't know-- oh, OK.

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 That's it.

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 For example, here, this part is a scheme code.

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 But this part is pure ELISP code.

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 And I can use a direct region and use Emacs ELISP mode here

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.

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 I will need parts, edit those parts, and select.

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 And when I'm fine with all the edits I did here--

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 for example, I can evaluate this form using

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 Control-X, Control-E, and so on.

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 And when I'm good with the results,

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 I can just save it and rebuild my whole home environment

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 and see it on a fresh Emacs instance load

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 from the new configuration and see if everything

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 works here as well.

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 So it's a little less interactive

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 than the usual Emacs configuration,

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 but still works quite well.

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 A question-- what is next for RD?

00:05:43.540 --> 00:05:48.420
 Actually, I have short-term plans and a little more

00:05:48.420 --> 00:05:49.660
 long-term plans.

00:05:49.660 --> 00:05:52.580
 Short-term plan is to make a first release

00:05:52.580 --> 00:05:54.740
 by the end of this year.

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 And this release-- actually, RD is quite usable currently,

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 but there is not much documentation and not

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 so many examples.

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 So I would like to prepare a documentation

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 getting started guide, live CD that you can use

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 for exploration purpose and for installation.

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 And also, I would like to find one or two maintainers which

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 will help with upcoming patches, because it's already

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 at least a few people who use it on a daily basis,

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 and they send a lot of patches.

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 And sometimes I have a hard time keeping up

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 with the speed of creating patches.

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 So the short-term plans is to make a first release

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 by the end of the year.

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 The long-term plans we can discuss later, I think.

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 And I will share them in RD announced mailing list.

00:07:06.220 --> 00:07:12.980
 OK, I think that's it for patterns.

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 Let me check RC.

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 I have-- OK, it seems that I answered all questions

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 that I found.

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 Let me know if something appears.

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 [AUDIO OUT]

00:07:39.580 --> 00:07:40.580
 Cool, thanks, Andrew.

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 And yeah, I think we still have over 10 minutes, maybe

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 12 minutes or so of live Q&A time on the stream.

00:07:49.460 --> 00:07:51.180
 So if people still have more questions,

00:07:51.180 --> 00:07:53.180
 please feel free to either add them on the pad,

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 or I think you should now also be

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 able to join this big blue button room to ask directly.

00:08:00.020 --> 00:08:04.100
 OK, I see one more question.

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 But I'm not sure what does it mean.

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 Do you use Emacs without this?

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 If so, for what purpose?

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 And how does it feel compared to RD?

00:08:17.780 --> 00:08:20.980
 OK, it's a question in general.

00:08:20.980 --> 00:08:24.020
 No, I don't use Emacs without RD.

00:08:24.020 --> 00:08:28.700
 Actually, all the Emacs configurations I use

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 is based on RD and built from that.

00:08:33.340 --> 00:08:43.580
 There is a way to add almost everything

00:08:43.580 --> 00:08:45.940
 you have in your basic Emacs configuration

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 to your RD Emacs configuration by creating a file

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 in your usual .config/emacsd directory

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 and loading it from your .init/el directory.

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 So you actually can have a very usual Emacs configuration

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 workflow in addition to RD.

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 But I don't use it because it's not a reproducible way

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 to do things because such workflow means

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 that I need to install packages separately somehow,

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 either with gix install or maybe some other package manager

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,

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 or maybe this package manager, like package.al or straight.

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al.

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 And it doesn't work well in the long term

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 because if I move such configuration, which

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 partially RD and partially usual Emacs configuration,

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 it will break on the new machine or maybe somewhere else

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 where I would like to move this configuration later.

00:10:03.700 --> 00:10:23.700
 OK.

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 We have a last slot for Q and A in the pad.

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 [LAUGHS]

00:10:39.380 --> 00:10:43.940
 Thank you, everyone, for joining this talk.

00:10:43.940 --> 00:10:46.820
 It was a pleasure to interview you.

00:10:46.820 --> 00:10:52.780
 I will be here for at least an hour or so

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 before I will go preparing to sleep.

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 So you can reach me by email, RC, here in big blue button

00:11:02.740 --> 00:11:07.220
 or some other way, probably.

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 Are there any plans to push things

00:11:09.660 --> 00:11:12.660
 from RD to gix main channel?

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 Actually, I have a commit access to gix,

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 and I try to upstream everything that

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 can be beneficial for both RD and gix to gix

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 and use it from the upstream.

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 But sometimes on some question, we didn't reach an

00:11:35.320 --> 00:11:35.900
 agreement,

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 or sometimes it's much easier to implement it

00:11:40.660 --> 00:11:46.500
 in a more rapid way, which probably I

00:11:46.500 --> 00:11:52.380
 wouldn't like to add to gix because it will require

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 too much time trying to fit to some gix.

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 So I keep it only in RD.

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 But the things that I see beneficial for both projects,

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 I try to share and to move them to gix.

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 Sounds great.

00:12:22.220 --> 00:12:23.780
 And another reminder for the folks

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 that you can join big blue button also directly.

00:12:26.460 --> 00:12:29.340
 If you want to type your questions into chat here

00:12:29.340 --> 00:12:32.580
 or just ask them over mic or with a microphone,

00:12:32.580 --> 00:12:33.540
 you can do that as well.

00:12:33.540 --> 00:12:46.260
 I think we still have about actually 10 or 12 more minutes.

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 I think I underestimated what we had.

00:12:48.100 --> 00:12:50.100
 So we still have plenty of time for questions.

00:12:50.100 --> 00:12:56.500
 [AUDIO OUT]

00:12:56.500 --> 00:13:01.540
 Added one more slot for Gondi in case someone

00:13:01.540 --> 00:13:05.180
 would like to fill it.

00:13:05.180 --> 00:13:06.740
 Thanks.

00:13:06.740 --> 00:13:34.220
 [AUDIO OUT]

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 How difficult is to add support for new packages to gix?

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 Have you found that's burdensome versus package L

00:13:44.020 --> 00:13:48.540
 or other in Emacs package management approach?

00:13:48.540 --> 00:13:53.940
 Actually, I find it quite easy to create packages for gix.

00:13:53.940 --> 00:13:59.460
 Maybe because I'm quite familiar with gix source code.

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 But maybe because it's not that difficult,

00:14:03.580 --> 00:14:11.660
 you just open a respective model like rd packages or gnu

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 packages in gix repository.

00:14:13.540 --> 00:14:15.660
 And you define the package you want.

00:14:15.660 --> 00:14:19.100
 And you define the dependencies you want.

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 Actually, a lot of packages already here in gix.

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 And some of the packages I package in rd

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 and later move to the gix.

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 So it's not hard to reference the dependencies

00:14:37.300 --> 00:14:40.780
 and find the dependencies already declared for you.

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 But what's more important, you can use dependencies not

00:14:46.420 --> 00:14:46.780
 only

00:14:46.780 --> 00:14:49.660
 on Emacs packages, but also on system packages.

00:14:49.660 --> 00:14:53.300
 For example, in my git package, you

00:14:53.300 --> 00:14:55.700
 can use a reference to git binary

00:14:55.700 --> 00:14:58.820
 and predefine the path to the git binary

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 inside a package configuration by fetching the source code

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 or something like that.

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 So any package that requires some system package to work

00:15:11.220 --> 00:15:14.180
 can use the system package as a dependency.

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 And it is a big benefit comparing

00:15:18.780 --> 00:15:21.500
 to other packaging solutions, which

00:15:21.500 --> 00:15:25.460
 can depend only on Elisp packages.

00:15:25.460 --> 00:15:36.340
 [AUDIO OUT]

00:15:36.340 --> 00:15:40.060
 Do you reckon rd is currently opinionated,

00:15:40.060 --> 00:15:44.180
 or is it a one-size-fits-all framework?

00:15:44.180 --> 00:15:49.020
 I would say it's quite opinionated.

00:15:49.020 --> 00:15:52.620
 I started from really bare-bone Emacs.

00:15:52.620 --> 00:15:55.100
 And I suffered for a while.

00:15:55.100 --> 00:15:58.620
 And I did features one by one very carefully,

00:15:58.620 --> 00:16:02.500
 crafting the current state of rd-emacs.

00:16:02.500 --> 00:16:08.180
 And it's, as I already said, vanilla flavored.

00:16:08.180 --> 00:16:12.180
 I try to stick with Emacs key bindings

00:16:12.180 --> 00:16:15.700
 to use built-in packages over external packages,

00:16:15.700 --> 00:16:21.460
 or use packages which are in the same way,

00:16:21.460 --> 00:16:26.100
 work in a similar manner to built-in packages.

00:16:26.100 --> 00:16:29.740
 So it's not usual.

00:16:29.740 --> 00:16:37.060
 It's not that user-friendly as Doom Emacs or Space Emacs.

00:16:37.060 --> 00:16:45.580
 It's more like a Prelude, or even more vanilla flavored

00:16:45.580 --> 00:16:47.380
 than Prelude.

00:16:47.380 --> 00:16:50.420
 But the good thing is that you can declare a feature

00:16:50.420 --> 00:16:51.340
 yourself.

00:16:51.340 --> 00:16:55.260
 And if you don't like something about rd-emacs provided

00:16:55.260 --> 00:16:59.860
 by features created by me or other contributors,

00:16:59.860 --> 00:17:03.500
 you can use the features declared by yourself

00:17:03.500 --> 00:17:06.060
 or by other people.

00:17:06.060 --> 00:17:11.140
 And one of the plans that I have according to rd,

00:17:11.140 --> 00:17:13.940
 which we are discussing on mailing list right now,

00:17:13.940 --> 00:17:20.140
 is contrib directory, which can include features provided

00:17:20.140 --> 00:17:21.660
 by different people.

00:17:21.660 --> 00:17:28.500
 For example, it's quite often asked to add evils support.

00:17:28.500 --> 00:17:31.540
 But I don't use evils.

00:17:31.540 --> 00:17:35.460
 And I don't want to maintain this package.

00:17:35.460 --> 00:17:38.140
 But I understand that many people

00:17:38.140 --> 00:17:43.140
 use such a way of interacting with text editor.

00:17:43.140 --> 00:17:45.660
 So it would be cool if someone who actually

00:17:45.660 --> 00:17:48.420
 using this feature will be maintaining it

00:17:48.420 --> 00:17:51.020
 in contrib directory.

00:17:51.020 --> 00:17:55.180
 And this feature will be sound with all other features

00:17:55.180 --> 00:17:55.460
 which

00:17:55.460 --> 00:17:58.340
 provided by rd itself.

00:17:58.340 --> 00:18:05.100
 And I think this way, it can cover more people needs

00:18:05.100 --> 00:18:07.940
 that it can cover right now.

00:18:07.940 --> 00:18:11.260
 So it will fit more people.

00:18:11.260 --> 00:18:17.820
 But the core rd won't be expanding its scope.

00:18:17.820 --> 00:18:19.020
 It will be quite focused.

00:18:19.020 --> 00:18:27.940
 How to get into rd is already documentation

00:18:27.940 --> 00:18:31.060
 and getting started guide.

00:18:31.060 --> 00:18:34.740
 There is a repository on source hut,

00:18:34.740 --> 00:18:42.700
 github.com/github/sourcehut/abcdw/rd.

00:18:42.700 --> 00:18:47.620
 And here you can see a very small readme,

00:18:47.620 --> 00:18:52.540
 which probably doesn't give you too much understanding of

00:18:52.540 --> 00:18:52.780
 what

00:18:52.780 --> 00:18:53.580
 is going on.

00:18:53.580 --> 00:18:56.860
 But it has all the necessary links.

00:18:56.860 --> 00:18:58.740
 It has a link to manual.

00:18:58.740 --> 00:19:02.860
 It has information of mailing lists,

00:19:02.860 --> 00:19:05.940
 which you can use to get help.

00:19:05.940 --> 00:19:14.620
 It has information about IRC channel in manual.

00:19:14.620 --> 00:19:18.540
 And you can join this channel and ask questions here.

00:19:18.540 --> 00:19:22.060
 And of course, you can take the source code

00:19:22.060 --> 00:19:23.860
 and take a look at it.

00:19:23.860 --> 00:19:29.500
 And currently, we have examples.

00:19:29.500 --> 00:19:37.380
 And here in examples, my whole configuration of my team

00:19:37.380 --> 00:19:38.340
 is present.

00:19:38.340 --> 00:19:43.580
 It's a little bit drafty.

00:19:43.580 --> 00:19:47.380
 I would like to reorganize this a little

00:19:47.380 --> 00:19:50.340
 to make it easier to follow.

00:19:50.340 --> 00:19:55.140
 And before first release, I hope I will do so.

00:19:55.140 --> 00:20:04.140
 But you can use it as an example, build on [INAUDIBLE]

00:20:04.140 --> 00:20:09.700
 Unfortunately, the documentation

00:20:09.700 --> 00:20:12.180
 is not very extensive.

00:20:12.180 --> 00:20:17.740
 So you can find it a little hard to follow.

00:20:17.740 --> 00:20:24.140
 Or maybe you can find it missing some important things.

00:20:24.140 --> 00:20:29.140
 But before first release, I hope the situation

00:20:29.140 --> 00:20:30.900
 will become a little better.

00:20:30.900 --> 00:20:33.860
 But anyway, you can always ask questions

00:20:33.860 --> 00:20:35.420
 until the documentation is ready.

00:20:35.420 --> 00:20:44.060
 Can you mix RD with custom Emacs init file?

00:20:44.060 --> 00:20:45.220
 Yes, you can.

00:20:45.220 --> 00:20:47.780
 I already mentioned it.

00:20:47.780 --> 00:20:53.220
 You can just define in your init.el

00:20:53.220 --> 00:20:57.100
 the statement that you load some other file

00:20:57.100 --> 00:21:02.860
 and use this file as your usual init.el file.

00:21:02.860 --> 00:21:06.460
 It will work completely OK.

00:21:06.460 --> 00:21:13.780
 And you can partially migrate to RD by using such approach.

00:21:13.780 --> 00:21:17.540
 But I don't recommend this approach in long term.

00:21:17.540 --> 00:21:19.020
 I already mentioned it.

00:21:19.020 --> 00:21:24.140
 But having usual init.el file and managing your

00:21:24.140 --> 00:21:25.340
 dependencies

00:21:25.340 --> 00:21:29.580
 using package.el or straight.el doesn't

00:21:29.580 --> 00:21:33.140
 cover system dependencies and other stuff, which

00:21:33.140 --> 00:21:38.900
 will lead to maybe irreproducible configurations.

00:21:38.900 --> 00:21:49.780
 [AUDIO OUT]

00:21:49.780 --> 00:21:51.700
 It's the heads up that we have about two more

00:21:51.700 --> 00:21:53.180
 minutes of live Q&A time.

00:21:53.180 --> 00:21:55.100
 And then after that, the stream will move on.

00:21:55.100 --> 00:21:58.300
 But people are welcome to continue asking questions,

00:21:58.300 --> 00:22:01.460
 either on the pad or IRC or by joining the Speakable button

00:22:01.460 --> 00:22:02.380
 room directly.

00:22:02.380 --> 00:22:04.380
 Thanks again, Andrew.

00:22:04.380 --> 00:22:23.700
 [AUDIO OUT]

00:22:23.700 --> 00:22:27.660
 Actually, I didn't expect so much questions.

00:22:27.660 --> 00:22:33.340
 And when I first took a look at the pad

00:22:33.340 --> 00:22:38.700
 and thought, OK, those six slots for Q&A will be enough.

00:22:38.700 --> 00:22:45.100
 Yeah, it's always a nice surprise, I guess.

00:22:45.100 --> 00:23:04.140
 [AUDIO OUT]

00:23:04.140 --> 00:23:07.780
 I hope everyone will be OK with jumping windows around,

00:23:07.780 --> 00:23:10.420
 because I switch between workspaces.

00:23:10.420 --> 00:23:12.660
 And it may be a little too noisy.

00:23:12.660 --> 00:23:16.780
 [AUDIO OUT]

00:23:16.780 --> 00:23:18.660
 Yeah, I think it's fine for the most part.

00:23:18.660 --> 00:23:20.380
 It was a bit of an interesting thing

00:23:20.380 --> 00:23:23.500
 trying to keep up the stream with it, because by default,

00:23:23.500 --> 00:23:26.020
 we maximize the speaker's webcam.

00:23:26.020 --> 00:23:27.900
 But then you're also sharing your screen

00:23:27.900 --> 00:23:29.180
 and sharing important details.

00:23:29.180 --> 00:23:32.780
 So we were also trying to get that on the stream as well.

00:23:32.780 --> 00:23:33.660
 But yeah, it was fine.

00:23:33.660 --> 00:23:41.260
 [AUDIO OUT]

00:23:41.260 --> 00:23:46.780
 OK, I think that there's no more questions.

00:23:46.780 --> 00:23:53.980
 And we can finish in this section.

00:23:53.980 --> 00:23:55.580
 All right, sounds good.

00:23:55.580 --> 00:23:58.020
 Thanks again, Andrew, for the great talk.

00:23:58.020 --> 00:24:02.780
 As a fellow Tiling Window Manager user and GNU gigs--

00:24:02.780 --> 00:24:06.180
 well, former committer, but still very much enthusiast,

00:24:06.180 --> 00:24:07.540
 I'm very much interested in this.

00:24:07.540 --> 00:24:09.820
 So I know I'll definitely be checking your work out.

00:24:09.820 --> 00:24:11.660
 So thanks again.

00:24:11.660 --> 00:24:13.860
 Thank you very much for organization

00:24:13.860 --> 00:24:15.820
 and all your contributions.

00:24:15.820 --> 00:24:17.540
 Very much appreciated.

00:24:17.540 --> 00:24:18.100
 Thank you.

00:24:18.100 --> 00:24:18.600
 Thank you.

00:24:18.600 --> 00:24:19.340
 Appreciate it.

00:24:19.340 --> 00:24:20.140
 All right, take care.

00:24:20.140 --> 00:24:22.580
 And we'll see you around.

00:24:22.580 --> 00:24:23.580
 Bye-bye.

00:24:23.580 --> 00:24:25.140
 Bye.

00:24:25.140 --> 00:24:28.500
 [AUDIO OUT]

00:24:30.500 --> 00:24:30.500