path: root/2022/captions/emacsconf-2022-indieweb--putting-org-mode-on-the-indieweb--michael-herstine--answers.vtt

WEBVTT

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and we are live hello again everyone and hi Michael how you doing very well thank you

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how are you I am doing well I am running out of energy steadily but surely but it's it's

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it's always a confusing feeling you know because I feel the energy going away the excitement

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going up because not only because we are close to an end which means my turmoil and my plight

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will come to an end but also because it's nice to have finished any Max Kant and I've

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put so many great talk in the wild for people to to be able to consume so and that's no

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little thanks to all our speakers including you Michael so thank you so much oh no you're

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very welcome I'm just happy to be a part of it yeah and we're glad you are so Michael

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do you have the pad open in front of you I do indeed looks like you've got a few questions

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coming in here yes meeting the question and then answering them sure sure let's start

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off with the one one I've already answered how did you create the drill down representation

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of the make call wondered if I sketched it out by hand and scanned it so I should every

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talk I give both at work and elsewhere people ask this question I should like get a finder's

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fee from Excalidraw but there's a website on the web called Excalidraw.com very nice

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diagramming solution it makes these awesome sort of hand written looking diagrams so that's

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what I used first question have you seen Reclaim ID this allows you to make a login that you

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own or at least is more open source and ownable seems to fit with the indie web so this is

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one of the things I've come to like about speaking at EmacsConf I feel like I learn

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you know as much or more than I teach no I am not familiar with this so I will definitely

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be taking a look there is an indie web protocol for identity it's called indie auth but yeah

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thanks for the tip I will definitely check out Reclaim ID what happens when you republish

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or re-export the same post will the web mentions be sent out repeatedly they will not not you

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could do that I suppose you might annoy some of your recipients but my solution on successful

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send of the initial web mention notes that down and is smart enough to not re-send it

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a second yeah so and actually I want to follow up on something on IRC I think Carl Voight

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said oh I don't have to have a database you don't have to have a database but I do use

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a plain text file full of just just printed list forms to maintain state let's see an

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advantage I see to using org mode for the indie web is you can use it for your notes

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org room for example no export for private yes yes the web mentions could be org file

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yes absolutely so yeah I mean so many people have found org mode so handy as a writing

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tool that you know and I just felt like you were right there right you just need a little

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bit of code to get you to transcode the HTML and get it on the web and then it was like

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well gosh I'm right there just a little bit more code and I can start sending web mentions

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I could start posseing etc etc etc any thoughts on using with ox Hugo so no not because I

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have anything against ox Hugo simply because I'm unfamiliar with it there's a couple of

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static site generators out there that you can use with org mode my design philosophy

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for this was I was going to start with emacs and org mode out of the box and see how far

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I could get with just adding a little bit of a list around it this a web 3 approach p.s.

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former not former military just losing my hair not I don't know what web 3 means some

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people it seems to be a decentralized approach and indie web is all about reclaiming your

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identity and your data from a few they call them silos right we're talking about the big

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social media oh cool great help me the web one with static sites yep yep everybody go

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out and blog on your own server and web rings were kind of like the communication mechanism

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web 2 is more interactive yeah I mean web 2 certainly was more interactive I guess I

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see it as we're gonna Michael just interrupting a little quickly we are going to open up the

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Q&A to people so if you want to join us the same dude as usual you go to the talk page

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we've also posted the sorry to give you just a second just a second I'm verifying something

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with audio level okay cool apparently my audio is perfect we were trying to do some live adjustments

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so we're saying we've opened up the BBB room so that people we want to join the last five

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questions are able to do so so either on the talk page or you can do this also on IRC

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we've posted the link over there so Michael you feel free to keep taking questions on

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the pad we still have many of them but I just wanted to let people know in case they wanted

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to join and also one last information we will need to move on with the next talk in 16 minutes

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so you still have plenty of time yeah wow I'm excited there's so much time left to answer

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question or oh wow I'm not sure what I'm gonna do for 60 minutes oh no the former oh wow

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I'm not sure I'm gonna get to all these all these right well you'll be able to answer later

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try to do as many as you can okay so I'm on IRC right now somebody's telling me I'm super

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quiet I'm gonna adjust the mic no don't worry about OJ levels it's on us you don't worry

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about it let's see Sasha's gonna try and fix is there a workflow to use emacs to publish

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and connect directly to target websites so that's an interesting question can you what

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do you mean by workflow in that question so you want to cut telegraph out of the equation

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get that that means oh I'm sorry I thought somebody had joined the chat room don't worry

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I will I will let them know if you have people joining and asking questions if you hear another

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voice than mine it's someone joining and I will try to be polite and say yeah can you

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please wait let's Michael finish the question don't worry I don't know everything so if

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you want to cut telegraph out of equation that means you're going to need to take on

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more work client side in terms of first discovering the web mention endpoint which is gonna involve

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parsing HTML which we all hate then you're going to need to send the request to that

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web your web mention to that endpoint which introduces you know the standard question

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with web hooks is what if they're down what if you can't reach them what if you're not

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on the networks and now you got to build yourself a queuing system but sure sure absolutely

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indie web is just a protocol and I think the community would actually welcome fewer points

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of failure like telegraph we got the BBB audio better okay great so questions we were discussing

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web three Carl says some people started to term web zero for similar decentralized approaches

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yeah I don't think that by no means does indie web imply static site there are actually

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CMS systems that talk to that speak the indie web protocols I think even WordPress does

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it as does Drupal yeah so I don't know if you want to we can discuss further if you

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want to hop in the room but yeah I guess I see it more as a decentralized web than three

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do I have a process nope I had sorry the question is do you have a process running on the web

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server to receive requests no so those are cashed for me and I literally have a cron

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job on my personal desktop and once an hour I just reach out and say you got any more

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web mentions for me and process them back here that does mean given that I have a statically

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generated website I need to republish every time I receive a web mention Michael if you

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don't mind interrupting we have someone in the room who would like to ask a question

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Max if you want to unmute yourself if you could ask the question I'm not sure if you're just

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showing your webcam yes you do have a question go on hi Michael no I actually didn't have

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a question I asked a question about the web 3.0 and I have a little concern about you

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know you use you describe kind of how dead it was to have just a static site and not

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be able to interact with people and so I was you know just thinking along those lines is

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anywhere is it a better way how satisfied are you with this with this with web mentions

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and you know sort of thumbs up down and did you actually get a demo running I mean are

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we able to see it somewhere well you can see it on my site which is just but I have can

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actually can you put it in the back can you put it in the back so that other people can

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actually access it including Max okay yes Max I know you're still there but I just want

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everyone to be able to click on it as well I'll do it don't worry about it I'll take

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care of it here we go Carl says web 3 is supposed to be something really strange with blockchains

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and this is definitely nothing like that yeah Carl put it much better than I could and well

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I'll just kind of okay cool Max is still here I'll just finish answering the question how

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satisfied am I it's work in progress I'm initially happy I was limited by time for this talk

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and as you can see maybe I got too far into the weeds but it was fairly involved just

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describing how to send and receive web mentions there's a second indie web protocol called

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posse publish on your own site syndicate elsewhere in which you can say okay I want to publish

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this post to my site oh and at the same time fire off a tweet referencing it and fire off

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a mastodon to referencing it and there are protocols for like pulling likes and boosts

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of that back to your own site as feedback and I've been playing with that a little bit

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and actually feeling pretty good about it yeah so happy to talk more other questions

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okay right so do I have a process running on the web server to receive requests nope

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just a cron job I think perhaps you're doing too much inside emacs yeah yeah great question

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I can't remember if I alluded to this at the end of the talk but as I said when I started

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down this path felt that was so close with just plain vanilla emacs in org mode it couldn't

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be that hard right and of course this is famous last words initially it was just a little

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bit of code around that to get the static site generator up sending web mentions are

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yeah it's a lot of code and so I'm definitely kind of at this point of you know is it time

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to turn to a proper CMS I start out using web mentions of service web mention telegraph

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then you want to change endpoint whether to a different service or I want to take them

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I see I see it didn't be the way the web mention oh I'm sorry let me finish the question I

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keep to make this clear so the question is let's suppose you start your site using web

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mentions of service and then later on you decide I want to change services or I'm just

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going to handle this myself is there sort of a dead letter problem will web mentions

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show up at the at the old address and it shouldn't be so when somebody wants to reach you that

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is when they do endpoint discovery so they if you would get request for your page and

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parse the HTML and they discover where to send web mentions there pose it for some reason

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they did that and sat on that information for some period of time of course then they

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might that you know they might send it to an old address but that would be that would

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be a non-standard use of the protocol you should be good have I seen a Gregor browser

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is a decentralized kiss browser using some of the peer-to-peer protocols interesting

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I have not I'm going there right now thank you

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somebody points out some things are better done outside of e-max I have built something

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similar at by star dot net you see www dot by hyphen star dot net okay let's go see it

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this is interesting thank you I will definitely take a look yeah so I can say I'm kind of

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on the cusp of saying okay this has been a fun experiment now I need to go code it up

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outside of e-max I like the fact that you know the discussion we were having the question

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about you know am I doing too much in e-max is literally a question that could be asked

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to every single presenter at all the e-max conference other ads because you know the

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whole point of e-max golf is showing what type of stuff you can do in e-max and naturally

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the question is going to follow that is are you just doing too much with e-max and that's

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always great question to take and I think you did spend it late yeah it's the old joke

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right it's a good editor in an awesome operating system yes I will allow you to do the usual

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jokes about e-max I will not allow you to refer to our core enemy that's they who may

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not be named okay fair okay so Michael we do have about five minutes of questions left

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I think you've answered all the questions and I don't see anyone else with a microphone

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on in BBB so we might we might leave it at that if you're okay with this okay well thank

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you so much Michael for taking the time to not only do a presentation for us but also

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for answering the questions in here no thank you all like I say I always learn as much

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as I teach here so great thank you okay amazing all right and for the others I'll hold you

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hostage a little while longer Michael we will be adding into the next talk in about four

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minutes and 30 seconds so we'll put up some music and I'll you'll hear my voice again

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when we are supposed to go live again so see you in a bit everyone and see you Michael

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and we are all fair okay I have to dash see you Michael you are calling music on Jen

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can we put yes thank you

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we volume again now to the original level

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very good

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you know what

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what

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Alright, I'm talking now. Okay, the audio is good. See you guys, see you in about 2 minutes.