summaryrefslogtreecommitdiffstats
path: root/2020/subtitles/emacsconf-2020--39-nongnu-elpa--questions--richard-stallman.vtt
blob: 41325095bd95df50696c14fcaedf7f4a64ebb594 (plain) (blame)
1
2
3
4
5
6
7
8
9
10
11
12
13
14
15
16
17
18
19
20
21
22
23
24
25
26
27
28
29
30
31
32
33
34
35
36
37
38
39
40
41
42
43
44
45
46
47
48
49
50
51
52
53
54
55
56
57
58
59
60
61
62
63
64
65
66
67
68
69
70
71
72
73
74
75
76
77
78
79
80
81
82
83
84
85
86
87
88
89
90
91
92
93
94
95
96
97
98
99
100
101
102
103
104
105
106
107
108
109
110
111
112
113
114
115
116
117
118
119
120
121
122
123
124
125
126
127
128
129
130
131
132
133
134
135
136
137
138
139
140
141
142
143
144
145
146
147
148
149
150
151
152
153
154
155
156
157
158
159
160
161
162
163
164
165
166
167
168
169
170
171
172
173
174
175
176
177
178
179
180
181
182
183
184
185
186
187
188
189
190
191
192
193
194
195
196
197
198
199
200
201
202
203
204
205
206
207
208
209
210
211
212
213
214
215
216
217
218
219
220
221
222
223
224
225
226
227
228
229
230
231
232
233
234
235
236
237
238
239
240
241
242
243
244
245
246
247
248
249
250
251
252
253
254
255
256
257
258
259
260
261
262
263
264
265
266
267
268
269
270
271
272
273
274
275
276
277
278
279
280
281
282
283
284
285
286
287
288
289
290
291
292
293
294
295
296
297
298
299
300
301
302
303
304
305
306
307
308
309
310
311
312
313
314
315
316
317
318
319
320
321
322
323
324
325
326
327
328
329
330
331
332
333
334
335
336
337
338
339
340
341
342
343
344
345
346
347
348
349
350
351
352
353
354
355
356
357
358
359
360
361
362
363
364
365
366
367
368
369
370
371
372
373
374
375
376
377
378
379
380
381
382
383
384
385
386
387
388
389
390
391
392
393
394
395
396
397
398
399
400
401
402
403
404
405
406
407
408
409
410
411
412
413
414
415
416
417
418
419
420
421
422
423
424
425
426
427
428
429
430
431
432
433
434
435
436
437
438
439
440
441
442
443
444
445
446
447
448
449
450
451
452
453
454
455
456
457
458
459
460
461
462
463
464
465
466
467
468
469
470
471
472
473
474
475
476
477
478
479
480
481
482
483
484
485
486
487
488
489
490
491
492
493
494
495
496
497
498
499
500
501
502
503
504
505
506
507
508
509
510
511
512
513
514
515
516
517
518
519
520
521
522
523
524
525
526
527
528
529
530
531
532
533
534
535
536
537
538
539
540
541
542
543
544
545
546
547
548
549
550
551
552
553
554
555
556
557
558
559
560
561
562
563
564
565
566
567
568
569
570
571
572
573
574
575
576
577
578
579
580
581
582
583
584
585
586
587
588
589
590
591
592
593
594
595
596
597
598
599
600
601
602
603
604
605
606
607
608
609
610
611
612
613
614
615
616
617
618
619
620
621
622
623
624
625
626
627
628
629
630
631
632
633
634
635
636
637
638
639
640
641
642
643
644
645
646
647
648
649
650
651
652
653
654
655
656
657
658
659
660
661
662
663
664
665
666
667
668
669
670
671
672
673
674
675
676
677
678
679
680
681
682
683
684
685
686
687
688
689
690
691
692
693
694
695
696
697
698
699
700
701
702
703
704
705
706
707
708
709
710
711
712
713
714
715
716
717
718
719
720
721
722
723
724
725
726
727
728
729
730
731
732
733
734
735
736
737
738
739
740
741
742
743
744
745
746
747
748
749
750
751
752
753
754
755
756
757
758
759
760
761
762
763
764
765
766
767
768
769
770
771
772
773
774
775
776
777
778
779
780
781
782
783
784
785
786
787
788
789
790
791
792
793
794
795
796
797
798
799
800
801
802
803
804
805
806
807
808
809
810
811
812
813
814
815
816
817
818
819
820
821
822
823
824
825
826
827
828
829
830
831
832
833
834
835
836
837
838
839
840
841
842
843
844
845
846
847
848
849
850
851
852
853
854
855
856
857
858
859
860
861
862
863
864
865
866
867
868
869
870
871
872
873
874
875
876
877
878
879
880
881
882
883
884
885
886
887
888
889
890
891
892
893
894
895
896
897
898
899
900
901
902
903
904
905
906
907
908
909
910
911
912
913
914
915
916
917
918
919
920
921
922
923
924
925
926
927
928
929
930
931
932
933
934
935
936
937
938
939
940
941
942
943
944
945
946
947
948
949
950
951
952
953
954
955
956
957
958
959
960
961
962
963
964
965
966
967
968
969
970
971
972
973
974
975
976
977
978
979
980
981
982
983
984
985
986
987
988
989
990
991
992
993
994
995
996
997
998
999
1000
1001
1002
1003
1004
1005
1006
1007
1008
1009
1010
1011
1012
1013
1014
1015
1016
1017
1018
1019
1020
1021
1022
1023
1024
1025
1026
1027
1028
1029
1030
1031
1032
1033
1034
1035
1036
1037
1038
1039
1040
1041
1042
1043
1044
1045
1046
1047
1048
1049
1050
1051
1052
1053
1054
1055
1056
1057
1058
1059
1060
1061
1062
1063
1064
1065
1066
1067
1068
1069
1070
1071
1072
1073
1074
1075
1076
1077
1078
1079
1080
1081
1082
1083
1084
1085
1086
1087
1088
1089
1090
1091
1092
1093
1094
1095
1096
1097
1098
1099
1100
1101
1102
1103
1104
1105
1106
1107
1108
1109
1110
1111
1112
1113
1114
1115
1116
1117
1118
1119
1120
1121
1122
1123
1124
1125
1126
1127
1128
1129
1130
1131
1132
1133
1134
1135
1136
1137
1138
1139
1140
1141
1142
1143
1144
1145
1146
1147
1148
1149
1150
1151
1152
1153
1154
1155
1156
1157
1158
1159
1160
1161
1162
1163
1164
1165
1166
1167
1168
1169
1170
1171
1172
1173
1174
1175
1176
1177
1178
1179
1180
1181
1182
1183
1184
1185
1186
1187
1188
1189
1190
1191
1192
1193
1194
1195
1196
1197
1198
1199
1200
1201
1202
1203
1204
1205
1206
1207
1208
1209
1210
1211
1212
1213
1214
1215
1216
1217
1218
1219
1220
1221
1222
1223
1224
1225
1226
1227
1228
1229
1230
1231
1232
1233
1234
1235
1236
1237
1238
1239
1240
1241
1242
1243
1244
1245
1246
1247
1248
1249
1250
1251
1252
1253
1254
1255
1256
1257
1258
1259
1260
1261
1262
1263
1264
1265
1266
1267
1268
1269
1270
1271
1272
1273
1274
1275
1276
1277
1278
1279
1280
1281
1282
1283
1284
1285
1286
1287
1288
1289
1290
1291
1292
1293
1294
1295
1296
1297
1298
1299
1300
1301
1302
1303
1304
1305
1306
1307
1308
1309
1310
1311
1312
1313
1314
1315
1316
1317
1318
1319
1320
1321
1322
1323
1324
1325
1326
1327
1328
1329
1330
1331
1332
1333
1334
1335
1336
1337
1338
1339
1340
1341
1342
1343
1344
1345
1346
1347
1348
1349
1350
1351
1352
1353
1354
1355
1356
1357
1358
1359
1360
1361
1362
1363
1364
1365
1366
1367
1368
1369
1370
1371
1372
1373
1374
1375
1376
1377
1378
1379
1380
1381
1382
1383
1384
1385
1386
1387
1388
1389
1390
1391
1392
1393
1394
1395
1396
1397
1398
1399
1400
1401
1402
1403
1404
1405
1406
1407
1408
1409
1410
1411
1412
1413
1414
1415
1416
1417
1418
1419
1420
1421
1422
1423
1424
1425
1426
1427
1428
1429
1430
1431
1432
1433
1434
1435
1436
1437
1438
1439
1440
1441
1442
1443
1444
1445
1446
1447
1448
1449
1450
1451
1452
1453
1454
1455
1456
1457
1458
1459
1460
1461
1462
1463
1464
1465
1466
1467
1468
1469
1470
1471
1472
1473
1474
1475
1476
1477
1478
1479
1480
1481
1482
1483
1484
1485
1486
1487
1488
1489
1490
1491
1492
1493
1494
1495
1496
1497
1498
1499
1500
1501
1502
1503
1504
1505
1506
1507
1508
1509
1510
1511
1512
1513
1514
1515
1516
1517
1518
1519
1520
1521
1522
1523
1524
1525
1526
1527
1528
1529
1530
1531
1532
1533
1534
1535
1536
1537
1538
1539
1540
1541
1542
1543
1544
1545
1546
1547
1548
1549
1550
1551
1552
1553
1554
1555
1556
1557
1558
1559
1560
1561
1562
1563
1564
1565
1566
1567
1568
1569
1570
1571
1572
1573
1574
1575
1576
1577
1578
1579
1580
1581
1582
1583
1584
1585
1586
1587
1588
1589
1590
1591
1592
1593
1594
1595
1596
1597
1598
1599
1600
1601
1602
1603
1604
1605
1606
1607
1608
1609
1610
1611
1612
1613
1614
1615
1616
1617
1618
1619
1620
1621
1622
1623
1624
1625
1626
1627
1628
1629
1630
1631
1632
1633
1634
1635
1636
1637
1638
1639
1640
1641
1642
1643
1644
1645
1646
1647
1648
1649
1650
1651
1652
1653
1654
1655
1656
1657
1658
1659
1660
1661
1662
1663
1664
1665
1666
1667
1668
1669
1670
1671
1672
1673
1674
1675
1676
1677
1678
1679
1680
1681
1682
1683
1684
1685
1686
1687
1688
1689
1690
1691
1692
1693
1694
1695
1696
1697
1698
1699
1700
1701
1702
1703
1704
1705
1706
1707
1708
1709
1710
1711
1712
1713
1714
1715
1716
1717
1718
1719
1720
1721
1722
1723
1724
1725
1726
1727
1728
1729
1730
1731
1732
1733
1734
1735
1736
1737
1738
1739
1740
1741
1742
1743
1744
1745
1746
1747
1748
1749
1750
1751
1752
1753
1754
1755
1756
1757
1758
1759
1760
1761
1762
1763
1764
1765
1766
1767
1768
1769
1770
1771
1772
1773
1774
1775
1776
1777
1778
1779
1780
1781
1782
1783
1784
1785
1786
1787
1788
1789
1790
1791
1792
1793
1794
1795
1796
1797
1798
1799
1800
1801
1802
1803
1804
1805
1806
1807
1808
1809
1810
1811
1812
1813
1814
1815
1816
1817
1818
1819
1820
1821
1822
1823
1824
1825
1826
1827
1828
1829
1830
1831
1832
1833
1834
1835
1836
1837
1838
1839
1840
1841
1842
1843
1844
1845
1846
1847
1848
1849
1850
1851
1852
1853
1854
1855
1856
1857
1858
1859
1860
1861
1862
1863
1864
1865
1866
1867
1868
1869
1870
1871
1872
1873
1874
1875
1876
1877
1878
1879
1880
1881
1882
1883
1884
1885
1886
1887
1888
1889
1890
1891
1892
1893
1894
1895
1896
1897
1898
1899
1900
1901
1902
1903
1904
1905
1906
1907
1908
1909
1910
1911
1912
1913
1914
1915
1916
1917
1918
1919
1920
1921
1922
1923
1924
1925
1926
1927
1928
1929
1930
1931
1932
1933
1934
1935
1936
1937
1938
1939
1940
1941
1942
1943
1944
1945
1946
1947
1948
1949
1950
1951
1952
1953
1954
1955
1956
1957
1958
1959
1960
1961
1962
1963
1964
1965
1966
1967
1968
1969
1970
1971
1972
1973
1974
1975
1976
1977
1978
1979
1980
1981
1982
1983
1984
1985
1986
1987
1988
1989
1990
1991
1992
1993
1994
1995
1996
1997
1998
1999
2000
2001
2002
2003
2004
2005
2006
2007
2008
2009
2010
2011
2012
2013
2014
2015
2016
2017
2018
2019
2020
2021
2022
2023
2024
2025
2026
2027
2028
2029
2030
2031
2032
2033
2034
2035
2036
2037
2038
2039
2040
2041
2042
2043
2044
2045
2046
2047
2048
2049
2050
2051
2052
2053
2054
2055
2056
2057
2058
2059
2060
2061
2062
2063
2064
2065
2066
2067
2068
2069
2070
2071
2072
2073
2074
2075
2076
2077
2078
2079
2080
2081
2082
2083
2084
2085
2086
2087
2088
2089
2090
2091
2092
2093
2094
2095
2096
2097
2098
2099
2100
2101
2102
2103
2104
2105
2106
2107
2108
2109
2110
2111
2112
2113
2114
2115
2116
2117
2118
2119
2120
2121
2122
2123
2124
2125
2126
2127
2128
2129
2130
2131
2132
2133
2134
2135
2136
2137
2138
2139
2140
2141
2142
2143
2144
2145
2146
2147
2148
2149
2150
2151
2152
2153
2154
2155
2156
2157
2158
2159
2160
2161
2162
2163
2164
2165
2166
2167
2168
2169
2170
2171
2172
2173
2174
2175
2176
2177
2178
2179
2180
2181
2182
2183
2184
2185
2186
2187
2188
2189
2190
2191
2192
2193
2194
2195
2196
2197
2198
2199
2200
2201
2202
2203
2204
2205
2206
2207
2208
2209
2210
2211
2212
2213
2214
2215
2216
2217
2218
2219
2220
2221
2222
2223
2224
2225
2226
2227
2228
2229
2230
2231
2232
2233
2234
2235
2236
2237
2238
2239
2240
2241
2242
2243
2244
2245
2246
2247
2248
2249
2250
2251
2252
2253
2254
2255
2256
2257
2258
2259
2260
2261
2262
2263
2264
2265
2266
2267
2268
2269
2270
2271
2272
2273
2274
2275
2276
2277
2278
2279
2280
2281
2282
2283
2284
2285
2286
2287
2288
2289
2290
2291
2292
2293
2294
2295
2296
2297
2298
2299
2300
2301
2302
2303
2304
2305
2306
2307
2308
2309
2310
2311
2312
2313
2314
2315
2316
2317
2318
2319
2320
2321
2322
2323
2324
2325
2326
2327
2328
2329
2330
2331
2332
2333
2334
2335
2336
2337
2338
2339
2340
2341
2342
2343
2344
2345
2346
2347
2348
2349
2350
2351
2352
2353
2354
2355
2356
2357
2358
2359
2360
2361
2362
2363
2364
2365
2366
2367
2368
2369
2370
2371
2372
2373
2374
2375
2376
2377
2378
2379
2380
2381
2382
2383
2384
2385
2386
2387
2388
2389
2390
2391
2392
2393
2394
2395
2396
2397
2398
2399
2400
2401
2402
2403
2404
2405
2406
2407
2408
2409
2410
2411
2412
2413
2414
2415
2416
2417
2418
2419
2420
2421
2422
2423
2424
2425
2426
2427
2428
2429
2430
2431
2432
2433
2434
2435
2436
2437
2438
2439
2440
2441
2442
2443
2444
2445
2446
2447
2448
2449
2450
2451
2452
2453
2454
2455
2456
2457
2458
2459
2460
2461
2462
2463
2464
2465
2466
2467
2468
2469
2470
2471
2472
2473
2474
2475
2476
2477
2478
2479
2480
2481
2482
2483
2484
2485
2486
2487
2488
2489
2490
2491
2492
2493
2494
2495
2496
2497
2498
2499
2500
2501
2502
2503
2504
2505
2506
2507
2508
2509
2510
2511
2512
2513
2514
2515
2516
2517
2518
2519
2520
2521
2522
2523
2524
2525
2526
2527
2528
2529
2530
2531
2532
2533
2534
2535
2536
2537
2538
2539
2540
2541
2542
2543
2544
2545
2546
2547
2548
2549
2550
2551
2552
2553
2554
2555
2556
2557
2558
2559
2560
2561
2562
2563
2564
2565
2566
2567
2568
2569
2570
2571
2572
2573
2574
2575
2576
2577
2578
2579
2580
2581
2582
2583
2584
2585
2586
2587
2588
2589
2590
2591
2592
2593
2594
2595
2596
2597
2598
2599
2600
2601
2602
2603
2604
2605
2606
2607
2608
2609
2610
2611
2612
2613
2614
2615
2616
2617
2618
2619
2620
2621
2622
2623
2624
2625
2626
2627
2628
2629
2630
2631
2632
2633
2634
2635
2636
2637
2638
2639
2640
2641
2642
2643
2644
2645
2646
2647
2648
2649
2650
2651
2652
2653
2654
2655
2656
2657
2658
2659
2660
2661
2662
2663
2664
2665
2666
2667
2668
2669
2670
2671
2672
2673
2674
2675
2676
2677
2678
2679
2680
2681
2682
2683
2684
2685
2686
2687
2688
2689
2690
2691
2692
2693
2694
2695
2696
2697
2698
2699
2700
2701
2702
2703
2704
2705
2706
2707
WEBVTT

00:00:00.640 --> 00:00:04.160
Okay. So, the first question is, "What is an

00:00:04.160 --> 00:00:08.800
example of a package currently in

00:00:08.800 --> 00:00:12.160
a non-ELPA repo that does not work well

00:00:12.160 --> 00:00:13.759
with Emacs?"

00:00:13.759 --> 00:00:18.000
Well, one of them is s.el,

00:00:18.000 --> 00:00:19.760
and this is what made me aware that

00:00:19.760 --> 00:00:21.920
there was an issue here that caused

00:00:21.920 --> 00:00:25.760
problems. Well, s.el

00:00:25.760 --> 00:00:29.439
is a beautifully written package

00:00:29.439 --> 00:00:31.279
that appears to be very useful for

00:00:31.279 --> 00:00:32.800
people.

00:00:32.800 --> 00:00:36.320
And there's just one thing wrong with it.

00:00:36.320 --> 00:00:39.520
It gobbled up the name space

00:00:39.520 --> 00:00:43.680
of symbols starting with s dash.

00:00:43.680 --> 00:00:47.039
And I was shocked to discover that

00:00:47.039 --> 00:00:49.440
somebody who had not coordinated with

00:00:49.440 --> 00:00:51.760
the Emacs developers at all,

00:00:51.760 --> 00:00:55.360
had implemented a package using such a

00:00:55.360 --> 00:00:56.800
short prefix, which

00:00:56.800 --> 00:00:58.723
isn't the right way to do things.

00:00:58.723 --> 00:01:01.520
Oh, by the way, the questions have moved off the

00:01:01.520 --> 00:01:04.000
screen, this is no good. I can continue

00:01:04.000 --> 00:01:05.360
answering this one,

00:01:05.360 --> 00:01:08.880
but I'll be stuck when this one is over.

00:01:08.880 --> 00:01:12.159
Anyway, so…

00:01:12.159 --> 00:01:15.040
I was told that there was nothing I

00:01:15.040 --> 00:01:16.560
could do about it,

00:01:16.560 --> 00:01:19.920
that so many users, packages were using

00:01:19.920 --> 00:01:22.960
s.el and thus essentially using that

00:01:22.960 --> 00:01:24.240
definition

00:01:24.240 --> 00:01:28.080
of the s-* symbols,

00:01:28.080 --> 00:01:31.360
that any attempt to use them

00:01:31.360 --> 00:01:34.720
publicly or privately for anything else

00:01:34.720 --> 00:01:38.079
would lead to horrible problems.

00:01:38.079 --> 00:01:41.680
And I don't like that.

00:01:41.680 --> 00:01:45.520
I decided, I wanted to do something

00:01:45.520 --> 00:01:49.040
a) so that wouldn't happen again

00:01:49.040 --> 00:01:52.320
and b) to make it unhappen

00:01:52.320 --> 00:01:55.119
in that case. Well, the way to make it

00:01:55.119 --> 00:01:57.840
unhappen in that case is with a new

00:01:57.840 --> 00:02:02.240
symbol renaming feature. The idea is,

00:02:02.240 --> 00:02:05.360
you rename that file to something else,

00:02:05.360 --> 00:02:09.119
and then you define an s.el that

00:02:09.119 --> 00:02:11.520
sets up symbol renaming and then loads

00:02:11.520 --> 00:02:13.040
the something else.

00:02:13.040 --> 00:02:15.590
So, it actually runs the same code,

00:02:15.590 --> 00:02:16.400
it just

00:02:16.400 --> 00:02:20.879
doesn't globally define the symbols

00:02:20.879 --> 00:02:23.920
s dash whatever, but they

00:02:23.920 --> 00:02:26.160
appear to work for the programs that

00:02:26.160 --> 00:02:32.640
explicitly require s.el

00:02:32.640 --> 00:02:36.000
or the s package. So, this gets the same

00:02:36.000 --> 00:02:38.080
behavior for all the programs that are

00:02:38.080 --> 00:02:40.239
using that library

00:02:40.239 --> 00:02:43.360
and doesn't interfere

00:02:43.360 --> 00:02:47.840
with the global name space at all.

00:02:47.840 --> 00:02:50.319
However, to do that we need to have a

00:02:50.319 --> 00:02:52.080
package

00:02:52.080 --> 00:02:55.360
s.el, that isn't the same

00:02:55.360 --> 00:02:57.760
totally. A short one file that's totally

00:02:57.760 --> 00:02:58.640
different.

00:02:58.640 --> 00:03:01.440
Plus, we've got to have the file that

00:03:01.440 --> 00:03:02.840
normally is called

00:03:02.840 --> 00:03:06.239
s.el available, but

00:03:06.239 --> 00:03:10.319
under another name. Well,

00:03:10.319 --> 00:03:13.040
how are we going to do that? We can't put

00:03:13.040 --> 00:03:18.879
this into Emacs in a nice way that

00:03:18.879 --> 00:03:24.560
won't make the maintainer angry.

00:03:24.560 --> 00:03:28.159
(or the developer of that package.)

00:03:28.159 --> 00:03:32.080
But we can do it with NonGNU

00:03:32.080 --> 00:03:34.640
ELPA. We can put those two things into

00:03:34.640 --> 00:03:36.239
NonGNU ELPA

00:03:36.239 --> 00:03:38.720
without any difficulty. And this shows

00:03:38.720 --> 00:03:40.720
one of the advantages.

00:03:40.720 --> 00:03:43.280
We can put files, we can put packages

00:03:43.280 --> 00:03:45.440
into NonGNU ELPA

00:03:45.440 --> 00:03:48.400
and make changes in them. Now, in general

00:03:48.400 --> 00:03:49.599
we wouldn't

00:03:49.599 --> 00:03:51.760
go to the effort of making big changes.

00:03:51.760 --> 00:03:54.319
That's just too much to do

00:03:54.319 --> 00:03:56.400
unless something's really important. But

00:03:56.400 --> 00:03:58.000
small changes

00:03:58.000 --> 00:04:01.120
that help things fit in are

00:04:01.120 --> 00:04:04.319
easy to do.

00:04:04.319 --> 00:04:07.120
Okay, oh, so basically the recording

00:04:07.120 --> 00:04:10.319
didn't get anything until now. I just saw

00:04:10.319 --> 00:04:13.439
a note pop up, "this session is now being

00:04:13.439 --> 00:04:14.319
recorded".

00:04:14.319 --> 00:04:16.320
I hope it's been recorded all along. It

00:04:16.320 --> 00:04:18.160
would be a shame to

00:04:18.160 --> 00:04:21.280
spoil… Oh, good okay.

00:04:21.280 --> 00:04:27.120
So, that's one of the issues.

00:04:27.120 --> 00:04:30.479
"Does NonGNU ELPA already exist

00:04:30.479 --> 00:04:33.840
or is this a sort of "plan"?" I don't

00:04:33.840 --> 00:04:35.360
know why you have to

00:04:35.360 --> 00:04:37.919
put scare quotes around the word plan.

00:04:37.919 --> 00:04:40.400
It's sort of in between.

00:04:40.400 --> 00:04:44.160
The creation of it is started. You

00:04:44.160 --> 00:04:45.440
will find

00:04:45.440 --> 00:04:48.160
that there is an archive that it's

00:04:48.160 --> 00:04:51.520
possible to download packages from,

00:04:51.520 --> 00:04:54.880
and there is a repository to put them in,

00:04:54.880 --> 00:04:57.120
but that's not the way it's really

00:04:57.120 --> 00:04:58.560
supposed to work.

00:04:58.560 --> 00:05:02.800
This is not supposed to be like the

00:05:02.800 --> 00:05:04.320
GNU ELPA, where there's

00:05:04.320 --> 00:05:07.280
one repo for all the packages and thus

00:05:07.280 --> 00:05:09.039
anyone who wants to edit any of them,

00:05:09.039 --> 00:05:11.199
anyone that we want to have edit any of

00:05:11.199 --> 00:05:11.680
them,

00:05:11.680 --> 00:05:13.280
has got to have access to the whole

00:05:13.280 --> 00:05:15.440
thing for one thing.

00:05:15.440 --> 00:05:18.560
Some packages will make

00:05:18.560 --> 00:05:21.840
an arrangement with the developers,

00:05:21.840 --> 00:05:25.120
and they'll assure us that they will

00:05:25.120 --> 00:05:27.039
do things as things should be done, and

00:05:27.039 --> 00:05:28.400
then we'll

00:05:28.400 --> 00:05:32.080
have their repo copied automatically

00:05:32.080 --> 00:05:35.919
or in other cases, say,

00:05:35.919 --> 00:05:38.160
copied manually with a little checking

00:05:38.160 --> 00:05:40.160
every so often.

00:05:40.160 --> 00:05:46.400
In other cases we'll need to have our own

00:05:46.400 --> 00:05:49.440
repo for a particular package.

00:05:49.440 --> 00:05:52.479
But we shouldn't have a single repo for

00:05:52.479 --> 00:05:54.400
all the packages. We should have a repo

00:05:54.400 --> 00:05:55.919
for each package,

00:05:55.919 --> 00:05:57.840
so that the people working on that can

00:05:57.840 --> 00:06:01.120
get access to modify it.

00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:04.319
This has to be finished setting up,

00:06:04.319 --> 00:06:06.080
and we're still working out the

00:06:06.080 --> 00:06:07.680
procedures.

00:06:07.680 --> 00:06:11.039
For instance, for making the arrangements

00:06:11.039 --> 00:06:14.400
with the developers of a package so that

00:06:14.400 --> 00:06:15.440
we can,

00:06:15.440 --> 00:06:18.840
we hope, entrust its development to

00:06:18.840 --> 00:06:24.800
them and rely on them directly.

00:06:24.800 --> 00:06:26.560
And there may be more that needs to be

00:06:26.560 --> 00:06:29.840
worked on.

00:06:29.840 --> 00:06:36.639
Oh! There's so many questions.

00:06:36.639 --> 00:06:39.280
Well, I hope you… The third question is,

00:06:39.280 --> 00:06:40.880
what are the benefits?

00:06:40.880 --> 00:06:43.680
I hope that people now see the benefits.

00:06:43.680 --> 00:06:46.240
I've described them.

00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:49.599
Next question, "Is it possible to work

00:06:49.599 --> 00:06:51.440
with the MELPA team

00:06:51.440 --> 00:06:54.720
to integrate that into Emacs?"

00:06:54.720 --> 00:06:59.440
No, because the goal doesn't make sense.

00:06:59.440 --> 00:07:03.759
MELPA the way it's done, does not belong

00:07:03.759 --> 00:07:07.199
inside Emacs in any sense. Well, first of

00:07:07.199 --> 00:07:08.560
all, it can't literally be

00:07:08.560 --> 00:07:11.280
inside Emacs. We don't have copyright

00:07:11.280 --> 00:07:13.280
assignments for that code

00:07:13.280 --> 00:07:18.160
and to get it would be unfeasible,

00:07:18.160 --> 00:07:20.560
but we're not asking for copyright

00:07:20.560 --> 00:07:21.520
assignments for

00:07:21.520 --> 00:07:25.280
NonGNU ELPA so that's

00:07:25.280 --> 00:07:27.599
you might wonder could MELPA be merged

00:07:27.599 --> 00:07:31.440
with NonGNU ELPA? The problem is,

00:07:31.440 --> 00:07:35.039
MELPA doesn't modify the packages.

00:07:35.039 --> 00:07:38.240
It's just a place to find releases of

00:07:38.240 --> 00:07:41.360
packages wherever they happen to be,

00:07:41.360 --> 00:07:44.800
and they put packages in with

00:07:44.800 --> 00:07:48.319
only a little bit of checking.

00:07:48.319 --> 00:07:51.520
So, no. There are a lot of packages

00:07:51.520 --> 00:07:51.919
that are

00:07:51.919 --> 00:07:55.280
in MELPA that we'd like to get into

00:07:55.280 --> 00:07:58.479
NonGNU ELPA. I don't know the names of

00:07:58.479 --> 00:08:00.800
most of them, but I expect most of them

00:08:00.800 --> 00:08:04.160
would be fine to have. But they've got to

00:08:04.160 --> 00:08:08.560
be looked at one by one.

00:08:08.560 --> 00:08:12.000
There are some rules for NonGNU ELPA,

00:08:12.000 --> 00:08:14.479
and the only way to check them is to

00:08:14.479 --> 00:08:18.000
check them on one package at a time,

00:08:18.000 --> 00:08:22.160
and that's going to take effort.

00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:25.039
Now, with the people who work on MELPA

00:08:25.039 --> 00:08:26.080
want to get involved

00:08:26.080 --> 00:08:29.440
of this, that would be great.

00:08:29.440 --> 00:08:32.800
I haven't tried asking them. First we've

00:08:32.800 --> 00:08:33.919
got to get this thing

00:08:33.919 --> 00:08:37.599
set up. I doubt they would want to,

00:08:37.599 --> 00:08:40.479
but if they said yes, that would be

00:08:40.479 --> 00:08:44.159
wonderful.

00:08:44.159 --> 00:08:48.399
"Any thoughts of packages being

00:08:48.399 --> 00:09:00.959
added…" I'm afraid.

00:09:05.440 --> 00:09:08.959
Any thoughts of packages being added as

00:09:08.959 --> 00:09:11.040
some URL I don't know anything about, but

00:09:11.040 --> 00:09:13.120
it talks about open source,

00:09:13.120 --> 00:09:17.680
which means I'm very unlikely to have much

00:09:17.680 --> 00:09:20.959
in common with whatever they say about

00:09:20.959 --> 00:09:24.080
either licensing or

00:09:24.080 --> 00:09:27.760
what's right and wrong.

00:09:27.760 --> 00:09:29.959
But this seems to be something about

00:09:29.959 --> 00:09:33.523
disregarding licenses altogether.

00:09:33.523 --> 00:09:35.680
Well, that is basically

00:09:35.680 --> 00:09:39.360
asking to lose. There are reasons

00:09:39.360 --> 00:09:43.360
why we developed GNU licenses to release

00:09:43.360 --> 00:09:46.490
software, why we have criteria for which

00:09:46.490 --> 00:09:49.519
licenses make a program free software.

00:09:49.519 --> 00:09:52.640
If the program doesn't carry a license

00:09:52.640 --> 00:09:55.057
or if it carries a non-free license,

00:09:55.057 --> 00:09:58.323
that program is not free software.

00:09:58.323 --> 00:10:01.857
Now, you can maybe get away with

00:10:01.857 --> 00:10:04.800
disregarding that fact unless

00:10:04.800 --> 00:10:08.959
somebody, an author or publisher stops you.

00:10:08.959 --> 00:10:11.360
But we're not going to take… we're not

00:10:11.360 --> 00:10:12.399
basically going to

00:10:12.399 --> 00:10:15.200
disregard the question of whether the

00:10:15.200 --> 00:10:16.399
software we

00:10:16.399 --> 00:10:19.040
recommend to people, really is free

00:10:19.040 --> 00:10:21.360
software or not.

00:10:21.360 --> 00:10:24.560
That's basically

00:10:24.560 --> 00:10:27.519
blindfolding yourself to the legal

00:10:27.519 --> 00:10:29.120
situation of the software you're

00:10:29.120 --> 00:10:33.519
distributing, it's a terrible idea. If they

00:10:33.519 --> 00:10:35.920
disregard our licenses they will hear

00:10:35.920 --> 00:10:38.640
from us about it.

00:10:38.640 --> 00:10:40.959
And if you want to contribute to the

00:10:40.959 --> 00:10:42.720
free world

00:10:42.720 --> 00:10:46.320
put free licenses on your code

00:10:46.320 --> 00:10:47.823
and choose good ones.

00:10:47.823 --> 00:10:50.000
To get this information,

00:10:50.000 --> 00:10:57.120
look at gnu.org/licenses,

00:10:57.120 --> 00:10:59.839
and one page that's important

00:10:59.839 --> 00:11:05.040
is license-recommendations.html,

00:11:05.040 --> 00:11:07.360
that's where we advise you on what

00:11:07.360 --> 00:11:09.279
license we would recommend you use

00:11:09.279 --> 00:11:11.360
depending on the circumstances.

00:11:11.360 --> 00:11:15.600
There's also license-list.html

00:11:15.600 --> 00:11:20.160
which describes a lot of licenses and

00:11:20.160 --> 00:11:22.160
says which ones are free,

00:11:22.160 --> 00:11:23.957
which ones are compatible

00:11:23.957 --> 00:11:26.160
with the GNU GPL.

00:11:26.160 --> 00:11:28.640
It's really important to use only GPL

00:11:28.640 --> 00:11:31.519
compatible licenses

00:11:31.519 --> 00:11:34.320
so that the various programs can be

00:11:34.320 --> 00:11:40.720
combined together or linked.

00:11:40.720 --> 00:11:43.120
You can also get other information about

00:11:43.120 --> 00:11:44.240
GNU licenses

00:11:44.240 --> 00:11:47.040
and the reasons why they are written the

00:11:47.040 --> 00:11:55.279
way they are.

00:11:55.279 --> 00:12:03.200
Oh sorry, I don't see the next question.

00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:07.519
"Why do I insist on using per and pers?"

00:12:07.519 --> 00:12:11.680
I'm not happy with using

00:12:11.680 --> 00:12:14.959
they, which is a plural pronoun with a

00:12:14.959 --> 00:12:17.440
singular antecedent.

00:12:17.440 --> 00:12:20.480
It's bad because it causes

00:12:20.480 --> 00:12:24.800
confusion that is completely gratuitous.

00:12:24.800 --> 00:12:28.639
Many sentences become a lot of work

00:12:28.639 --> 00:12:33.200
to parse and understand if you

00:12:33.200 --> 00:12:36.480
add that ambiguity, that source of

00:12:36.480 --> 00:12:39.839
regular ambiguity. Now,

00:12:39.839 --> 00:12:42.720
I do not accept the demands of other

00:12:42.720 --> 00:12:43.680
people

00:12:43.680 --> 00:12:47.519
in regard to changing my grammar.

00:12:47.519 --> 00:12:50.800
You can try to convince me, but

00:12:50.800 --> 00:12:54.240
no one is entitled to give me orders

00:12:54.240 --> 00:12:55.440
about that

00:12:55.440 --> 00:12:58.880
or state their desires and expect

00:12:58.880 --> 00:13:03.200
obedience, not for me and not from you

00:13:03.200 --> 00:13:06.560
or anyone. We are all

00:13:06.560 --> 00:13:09.839
equally entitled to decide

00:13:09.839 --> 00:13:13.200
how we will speak and how we won't speak.

00:13:13.200 --> 00:13:18.000
I've spelled out all of these points

00:13:18.000 --> 00:13:19.857
in a file called

00:13:19.857 --> 00:13:29.423
stallman.org/articles/genderless-pronouns.html

00:13:29.423 --> 00:13:31.600
(corrected),

00:13:31.600 --> 00:13:33.760
of course, this is not a GNU project

00:13:33.760 --> 00:13:36.000
policy,

00:13:36.000 --> 00:13:46.839
it's my own personal ideas on the

00:13:46.839 --> 00:13:53.920
subject.

00:13:53.920 --> 00:13:57.120
If any of you feels offended

00:13:57.120 --> 00:14:01.040
by my referring to you with a singular

00:14:01.040 --> 00:14:04.320
gender-neutral pronoun, feel free

00:14:04.320 --> 00:14:07.680
to contact me privately

00:14:07.680 --> 00:14:10.720
and explain to me your reasons.

00:14:10.720 --> 00:14:14.000
I will pay attention to them, I'll

00:14:14.000 --> 00:14:16.639
think about them assuming that they're

00:14:16.639 --> 00:14:18.399
not something I've already

00:14:18.399 --> 00:14:24.079
considered and decided to dismiss before.

00:14:24.079 --> 00:14:27.760
But you must not speak to me as if I had

00:14:27.760 --> 00:14:30.240
no business not obeying you because

00:14:30.240 --> 00:14:31.690
that's rude,

00:14:31.690 --> 00:14:34.320
and it is not likely to convince me

00:14:34.320 --> 00:14:40.720
to change my mind.

00:14:40.720 --> 00:14:44.240
I believe it is not actually

00:14:44.240 --> 00:14:48.320
of stating offense to anyone,

00:14:48.320 --> 00:14:50.560
and the fact that somebody disagrees

00:14:50.560 --> 00:14:52.880
with me does not mean I'm wrong,

00:14:52.880 --> 00:15:00.720
but I always can be wrong.

00:15:00.720 --> 00:15:02.560
"When you wrote that you could add a

00:15:02.560 --> 00:15:05.680
package to NonGNU ELPA,

00:15:05.680 --> 00:15:07.120
are you implying that you would add

00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:09.199
packages with or without package

00:15:09.199 --> 00:15:11.120
maintainer's knowledge?"

00:15:11.120 --> 00:15:15.279
Of course, the packages we would

00:15:15.279 --> 00:15:18.000
distribute in this way are free

00:15:18.000 --> 00:15:19.519
software.

00:15:19.519 --> 00:15:22.720
Everyone is entitled to redistribute them

00:15:22.720 --> 00:15:26.560
and everyone is also entitled to modify

00:15:26.560 --> 00:15:26.959
them

00:15:26.959 --> 00:15:29.199
and redistribute them, that's part of the

00:15:29.199 --> 00:15:31.680
meaning of free software.

00:15:31.680 --> 00:15:35.040
I have been unable to understand

00:15:35.040 --> 00:15:38.320
how there came to be an idea

00:15:38.320 --> 00:15:42.560
that those who redistribute packages

00:15:42.560 --> 00:15:49.360
have some obligation to be mere mirrors

00:15:49.360 --> 00:15:54.480
and not modify things themselves.

00:15:54.480 --> 00:15:58.560
Well, if a package is

00:15:58.560 --> 00:16:01.440
being maintained by developers who are

00:16:01.440 --> 00:16:03.440
cooperating with us,

00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:06.240
we'll normally just leave it to them.

00:16:06.240 --> 00:16:07.360
After all,

00:16:07.360 --> 00:16:09.590
we have lots of other work to do.

00:16:09.590 --> 00:16:12.390
They are clearly experts on

00:16:12.390 --> 00:16:15.600
the packages they've developed,

00:16:15.600 --> 00:16:18.399
let's leave it to them if they make that

00:16:18.399 --> 00:16:22.800
sort of arrangement with us. But

00:16:22.800 --> 00:16:26.480
that's up to them, we can't insist that

00:16:26.480 --> 00:16:29.120
anyone make an arrangement with us,

00:16:29.120 --> 00:16:30.720
but since those programs are free

00:16:30.720 --> 00:16:35.723
software, anyone is free to redistribute them,

00:16:35.723 --> 00:16:41.839
and we will do that.

00:16:41.839 --> 00:16:45.519
"Have you ever used vi or vim or

00:16:45.519 --> 00:16:52.079
evil mode?" No.

00:16:52.079 --> 00:16:53.920
"Are there any plans to implement

00:16:53.920 --> 00:16:56.800
security considerations in NonGNU

00:16:56.800 --> 00:16:58.657
ELPA?"

00:16:58.657 --> 00:17:01.890
We probably should,

00:17:01.890 --> 00:17:04.959
and this will have to be implemented,

00:17:04.959 --> 00:17:08.559
but at the moment

00:17:08.559 --> 00:17:12.000
developer Emacs maintainers will copy

00:17:12.000 --> 00:17:13.280
packages

00:17:13.280 --> 00:17:18.160
into it, and so as long as they are

00:17:18.160 --> 00:17:20.160
verifying the packages and getting the

00:17:20.160 --> 00:17:22.480
packages from the right place

00:17:22.480 --> 00:17:24.690
that will take care of the security.

00:17:24.690 --> 00:17:25.919
Once there is…

00:17:25.919 --> 00:17:30.160
When with automatic copying in,

00:17:30.160 --> 00:17:33.200
will have to do something to

00:17:33.200 --> 00:17:35.200
make sure that we're fetching the

00:17:35.200 --> 00:17:40.320
packages securely.

00:17:40.320 --> 00:17:44.000
Some of you might be interested in

00:17:44.000 --> 00:17:46.080
helping to design and implement this

00:17:46.080 --> 00:17:48.000
system.

00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:52.559
"What distro do I use?"

00:17:52.559 --> 00:17:56.720
Well, which distro of GNU/Linux

00:17:56.720 --> 00:17:58.000
do I use?

00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:03.520
I use Trisquel,

00:18:03.520 --> 00:18:07.200
I haven't tried most of the free distros

00:18:07.200 --> 00:18:10.080
and the reason is, it's not crucial that

00:18:10.080 --> 00:18:11.120
I do so,

00:18:11.120 --> 00:18:13.520
we don't need me to rate the various

00:18:13.520 --> 00:18:14.799
free distros on

00:18:14.799 --> 00:18:17.520
practical questions because anyone can

00:18:17.520 --> 00:18:20.000
do that as well as I can.

00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:24.400
And so you can tell people what

00:18:24.400 --> 00:18:27.760
you think of using them. For me, what's

00:18:27.760 --> 00:18:29.360
important to me

00:18:29.360 --> 00:18:32.400
is to inform people of the difference

00:18:32.400 --> 00:18:34.160
between the free distros

00:18:34.160 --> 00:18:36.799
and the non-free distros, making sure

00:18:36.799 --> 00:18:38.799
people are aware that if you

00:18:38.799 --> 00:18:42.000
install a non-free GNU/Linux

00:18:42.000 --> 00:18:45.600
distro, you'll get a free operating

00:18:45.600 --> 00:18:46.720
system with

00:18:46.720 --> 00:18:49.919
non-free stuff in various quantities

00:18:49.919 --> 00:18:54.160
added, thus you will not reach freedom,

00:18:54.160 --> 00:18:56.240
although you'll make a lot of

00:18:56.240 --> 00:18:57.520
progress compared

00:18:57.520 --> 00:19:01.039
with using for instance, Windows or

00:19:01.039 --> 00:19:03.919
macOS or whatever vicious thing it

00:19:03.919 --> 00:19:06.160
might be.

00:19:06.160 --> 00:19:09.760
I'd like people to be aware

00:19:09.760 --> 00:19:12.799
of this next step towards

00:19:12.799 --> 00:19:14.720
getting freedom for yourself and your

00:19:14.720 --> 00:19:16.160
own computing,

00:19:16.160 --> 00:19:24.480
so that you can do that if you want to.

00:19:29.039 --> 00:19:31.360
"Who gets to make the final decision

00:19:31.360 --> 00:19:35.157
regarding NonGNU ELPA?"

00:19:35.157 --> 00:19:38.690
The Emacs maintainers are

00:19:38.690 --> 00:19:40.960
going to be in charge of this,

00:19:40.960 --> 00:19:44.480
because it's not

00:19:44.480 --> 00:19:47.760
just a technical decision it has with

00:19:47.760 --> 00:19:51.360
only technical consequences

00:19:51.360 --> 00:19:54.960
but in general unless there's some

00:19:54.960 --> 00:19:57.760
severe problem with the package we will

00:19:57.760 --> 00:20:03.600
want to put it in,

00:20:03.600 --> 00:20:05.757
and I expect most packages

00:20:05.757 --> 00:20:07.440
won't have a problem,

00:20:07.440 --> 00:20:09.357
and we can just put them in

00:20:09.357 --> 00:20:11.679
when we get to them.

00:20:11.679 --> 00:20:15.919
"Won't the ELPA link to non-free sites

00:20:15.919 --> 00:20:17.600
like GitHub?"

00:20:17.600 --> 00:20:20.799
It's a mistake to talk about a

00:20:20.799 --> 00:20:25.760
non-free site,

00:20:25.760 --> 00:20:29.120
because a site is not a program.

00:20:29.120 --> 00:20:32.123
A program is either free or non-free,

00:20:32.123 --> 00:20:32.960
and we have

00:20:32.960 --> 00:20:36.480
clearly stated criteria for that in

00:20:36.480 --> 00:20:42.457
gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html

00:20:42.457 --> 00:20:45.360
we have the free software definition,

00:20:45.360 --> 00:20:51.919
but a site, well, there're programs on it,

00:20:51.919 --> 00:20:54.000
but it doesn't make sense to ask whether

00:20:54.000 --> 00:20:55.120
the site is

00:20:55.120 --> 00:20:58.000
free or not, it's too simplistic a

00:20:58.000 --> 00:20:58.880
question

00:20:58.880 --> 00:21:02.000
to have a meaningful answer. Now, one

00:21:02.000 --> 00:21:05.679
thing you can ask about is, does the site

00:21:05.679 --> 00:21:08.799
send JavaScript to the user's machine,

00:21:08.799 --> 00:21:11.760
to the user's browser and if so, is that

00:21:11.760 --> 00:21:12.960
JavaScript

00:21:12.960 --> 00:21:17.120
non-free. Well, GitHub

00:21:17.120 --> 00:21:19.919
does send non-free JavaScript for some

00:21:19.919 --> 00:21:21.200
operations,

00:21:21.200 --> 00:21:24.240
so we consider it unsatisfactory as a

00:21:24.240 --> 00:21:26.159
repository,

00:21:26.159 --> 00:21:29.600
but that doesn't mean linking to it

00:21:29.600 --> 00:21:33.360
is a bad thing to do regardless of

00:21:33.360 --> 00:21:34.720
what the purpose is.

00:21:34.720 --> 00:21:36.640
For instance, if the purpose is to refer

00:21:36.640 --> 00:21:38.240
to some things

00:21:38.240 --> 00:21:40.799
that you can access without running the

00:21:40.799 --> 00:21:42.880
non-free JavaScript,

00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:47.200
then it's okay for that purpose.

00:21:47.200 --> 00:21:50.480
So, if now that you understand the

00:21:50.480 --> 00:21:52.559
details of this issue,

00:21:52.559 --> 00:21:54.880
you think that there is a problem with

00:21:54.880 --> 00:22:00.080
the link to caml…, there's,

00:22:00.080 --> 00:22:03.679
sorry, a link in caml.html,

00:22:03.679 --> 00:22:08.823
well, report it to bug-gnu-emacs,

00:22:08.823 --> 00:22:10.880
report it as an Emacs bug,

00:22:10.880 --> 00:22:14.159
but do think about the criteria I've

00:22:14.159 --> 00:22:15.840
just said because maybe it's not a

00:22:15.840 --> 00:22:18.000
problem.

00:22:18.000 --> 00:22:21.840
"Is it okay to use the GNU Affero GPL

00:22:21.840 --> 00:22:24.559
for Emacs packages?"

00:22:24.559 --> 00:22:28.880
Yes it is.

00:22:28.880 --> 00:22:31.120
"Which is your favorite programming

00:22:31.120 --> 00:22:32.080
language?

00:22:32.080 --> 00:22:35.200
If Lisp, which variant?"

00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:38.400
Well, I don't exactly have a

00:22:38.400 --> 00:22:41.760
favorite variant, but

00:22:41.760 --> 00:22:45.120
when I designed Emacs Lisp, I

00:22:45.120 --> 00:22:47.520
did the best thing I could think of at

00:22:47.520 --> 00:22:48.799
the time,

00:22:48.799 --> 00:22:52.559
subject to the need to keep it small.

00:22:52.559 --> 00:22:55.520
For the first few years it was important

00:22:55.520 --> 00:22:56.960
for GNU Emacs

00:22:56.960 --> 00:22:59.840
to run in a machine which could only

00:22:59.840 --> 00:23:00.799
give it half

00:23:00.799 --> 00:23:04.480
a meg of user space.

00:23:04.480 --> 00:23:06.559
So, there are a lot of constructs that

00:23:06.559 --> 00:23:09.200
clearly were desirable to include

00:23:09.200 --> 00:23:12.320
that I left out because we could

00:23:12.320 --> 00:23:16.880
make it work without them

00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:18.960
and then a lot of those have been added

00:23:18.960 --> 00:23:20.640
since because

00:23:20.640 --> 00:23:23.200
it's been a long time since we needed to

00:23:23.200 --> 00:23:40.960
keep Emacs so rigorously small.

00:23:40.960 --> 00:23:44.240
Someone is

00:23:44.240 --> 00:23:47.679
asking about the

00:23:47.679 --> 00:23:51.360
FSF's repository project. Well,

00:23:51.360 --> 00:23:54.400
we agreed that there would be another

00:23:54.400 --> 00:23:55.440
virtual machine

00:23:55.440 --> 00:23:59.919
running one of those for the GNU project,

00:23:59.919 --> 00:24:15.840
but that's as far as the discussion went.

00:24:15.840 --> 00:24:20.480
Question 17 is extremely insulting!

00:24:20.480 --> 00:24:25.600
I have not engaged in sexual harassment,

00:24:25.600 --> 00:24:28.720
don't expect me to plead guilty to such

00:24:28.720 --> 00:24:32.640
a nasty claim.

00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:35.600
People have been accusing me of many

00:24:35.600 --> 00:24:36.799
things,

00:24:36.799 --> 00:24:39.919
some of which are

00:24:39.919 --> 00:24:43.120
basically mole hills and some of which

00:24:43.120 --> 00:24:44.423
are false.

00:24:44.423 --> 00:24:50.640
So, I'm not going to give them

00:24:50.640 --> 00:24:53.840
anything, I have been bullied in a

00:24:53.840 --> 00:24:59.679
horrible way, that was wrong.

00:24:59.679 --> 00:25:02.720
I would like the bullies to apologize to

00:25:02.720 --> 00:25:03.520
me,

00:25:03.520 --> 00:25:06.320
and when I see that they're not bullying,

00:25:06.320 --> 00:25:08.960
I will forgive them.

00:25:08.960 --> 00:25:11.279
I would like to have conversations with

00:25:11.279 --> 00:25:14.799
them if any of the mole hills

00:25:14.799 --> 00:25:17.840
annoyed someone, I'm happy to talk

00:25:17.840 --> 00:25:20.880
with per and thus

00:25:20.880 --> 00:25:31.120
help resolve things with peace.

00:25:31.120 --> 00:25:39.200
And my opinion on "diversity" within

00:25:39.200 --> 00:25:42.720
Emacs. Well, Emacs is

00:25:42.720 --> 00:25:45.679
never going to be diverse, it is extended

00:25:45.679 --> 00:25:49.760
in one language, Emacs Lisp.

00:25:49.760 --> 00:25:53.279
Well, I don't know, we did have an idea

00:25:53.279 --> 00:25:55.840
of implementing extensibility using

00:25:55.840 --> 00:25:58.400
Scheme and the hope was that Guile

00:25:58.400 --> 00:26:01.120
could be integrated with Emacs, that

00:26:01.120 --> 00:26:02.960
turned out to be difficult, it may be

00:26:02.960 --> 00:26:05.279
impossible but in principle

00:26:05.279 --> 00:26:07.520
it might be a good thing, that would be a

00:26:07.520 --> 00:26:11.039
small amount of diversity,

00:26:11.039 --> 00:26:14.960
but it's not that important.

00:26:14.960 --> 00:26:16.960
What I think is really important for

00:26:16.960 --> 00:26:18.880
developing Emacs

00:26:18.880 --> 00:26:22.799
is to make it do word processing.

00:26:22.799 --> 00:26:27.039
I sometimes use LibreOffice,

00:26:27.039 --> 00:26:30.080
and yeah I can make it do things.

00:26:30.080 --> 00:26:32.799
It has features for WYSIWYG which are

00:26:32.799 --> 00:26:34.880
very nice,

00:26:34.880 --> 00:26:38.000
but it's in other regards,

00:26:38.000 --> 00:26:40.400
it's not Emacs, and it doesn't have the

00:26:40.400 --> 00:26:42.400
abilities of Emacs,

00:26:42.400 --> 00:26:45.600
and it should.

00:26:45.600 --> 00:26:48.400
So, I urge people to work on extending

00:26:48.400 --> 00:26:49.039
Emacs

00:26:49.039 --> 00:26:51.600
in that direction adding the features

00:26:51.600 --> 00:27:13.600
that a word processor has to have.

00:27:13.600 --> 00:27:17.957
The last question I can answer is 18.

00:27:17.957 --> 00:27:21.679
Yes, it's a very sad thing

00:27:21.679 --> 00:27:24.960
how many companies

00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:28.399
insist on using non-free software.

00:27:28.399 --> 00:27:33.200
Well, I would get a different kind of job,

00:27:33.200 --> 00:27:36.799
that's a decision I made many years ago

00:27:36.799 --> 00:27:40.320
early in the GNU project,

00:27:40.320 --> 00:27:42.799
I decided, I would not… first I would not

00:27:42.799 --> 00:27:47.679
get a job developing non-free software.

00:27:47.679 --> 00:27:50.960
And later on I decided,

00:27:50.960 --> 00:27:54.880
once I could stop using non-free

00:27:54.880 --> 00:27:57.120
software, that is once we had

00:27:57.120 --> 00:28:00.799
a GNU/Linux system that we could

00:28:00.799 --> 00:28:08.320
switch over to and…

00:28:08.320 --> 00:28:11.679
Oh, wait. I thought magic wand

00:28:11.679 --> 00:28:16.240
time meant it was time to stop,

00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:21.039
but now I rather ask the question.

00:28:27.760 --> 00:28:32.480
So, what do you do, well, if I were you,

00:28:32.480 --> 00:28:35.679
I'd probably not work for any of those

00:28:35.679 --> 00:28:37.440
companies.

00:28:37.440 --> 00:28:39.679
If I needed to make money, I'd get a job,

00:28:39.679 --> 00:28:40.799
but I get some

00:28:40.799 --> 00:28:43.840
other kind of job

00:28:43.840 --> 00:28:48.080
that didn't involve using software

00:28:48.080 --> 00:28:51.039
or that let me choose the

00:28:51.039 --> 00:28:53.600
software I would use.

00:28:53.600 --> 00:28:56.880
But I would live cheaply, you know, the

00:28:56.880 --> 00:28:58.000
less you spend,

00:28:58.000 --> 00:29:00.640
the less you need to make and the more

00:29:00.640 --> 00:29:01.120
time

00:29:01.120 --> 00:29:04.720
you can take away from your paid work

00:29:04.720 --> 00:29:07.200
and the more flexibility you have in

00:29:07.200 --> 00:29:08.640
which paid work

00:29:08.640 --> 00:29:13.039
you can do. Being in a position

00:29:13.039 --> 00:29:16.399
to say no to avoid being

00:29:16.399 --> 00:29:23.679
desperate to say yes

00:29:23.679 --> 00:29:27.440
strengthens your position,

00:29:27.440 --> 00:29:31.200
and you need that. One way you can help

00:29:31.200 --> 00:29:33.279
do that is by

00:29:33.279 --> 00:29:36.559
not having children. Now, that is a

00:29:36.559 --> 00:29:38.960
tangent, but it can't be denied that

00:29:38.960 --> 00:29:41.760
raising children is very expensive, I

00:29:41.760 --> 00:29:42.399
have heard

00:29:42.399 --> 00:29:45.559
many people say that they are

00:29:45.559 --> 00:29:48.080
uncomfortable with their jobs,

00:29:48.080 --> 00:29:50.880
but they have to do those jobs to make

00:29:50.880 --> 00:29:52.240
enough money

00:29:52.240 --> 00:29:55.440
to support their children.

00:29:55.440 --> 00:29:59.120
Well, think about that, be aware

00:29:59.120 --> 00:30:01.520
that's likely to happen to you, before

00:30:01.520 --> 00:30:06.159
you make that decision.

00:30:06.159 --> 00:30:13.279
"What would I change about free software?"

00:30:13.279 --> 00:30:16.960
Well, since this is

00:30:16.960 --> 00:30:20.880
magic, I would magically find

00:30:20.880 --> 00:30:25.600
a way of showing everyone why

00:30:25.600 --> 00:30:28.000
most free software needs to be copy

00:30:28.000 --> 00:30:29.679
lefted,

00:30:29.679 --> 00:30:32.480
so that our community would not

00:30:32.480 --> 00:30:34.880
basically

00:30:34.880 --> 00:30:38.640
submit to abuse by proprietary software

00:30:38.640 --> 00:30:45.919
developers.

00:30:45.919 --> 00:30:49.760
Of course, I could go further if I could

00:30:49.760 --> 00:30:53.279
magically recruit a hundred thousand

00:30:53.279 --> 00:30:55.760
good programmers to do lots of work

00:30:55.760 --> 00:30:57.919
improving free software.

00:30:57.919 --> 00:31:01.039
We might… Well, if we could do this 20

00:31:01.039 --> 00:31:03.279
years ago, we might have wiped out

00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:06.559
non-free systems, and then we wouldn't

00:31:06.559 --> 00:31:07.200
have had

00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:10.320
horrible things like

00:31:10.320 --> 00:31:14.480
World Wide Web DRM, that

00:31:14.480 --> 00:31:18.000
no one has the courage to resist

00:31:18.000 --> 00:31:20.480
if they're desperately trying to get

00:31:20.480 --> 00:31:22.640
money for anything,

00:31:22.640 --> 00:31:26.240
and if they need approval of companies,

00:31:26.240 --> 00:31:29.519
of the big companies that push for DRM,

00:31:29.519 --> 00:31:32.960
then they don't dare even resist as

00:31:32.960 --> 00:31:38.240
much as they can resist.

00:31:38.240 --> 00:31:40.880
And look what happened to the World Wide

00:31:40.880 --> 00:31:43.200
Web consortium,

00:31:43.200 --> 00:31:47.279
they surrendered blatantly

00:31:47.279 --> 00:31:50.399
and ignominiously by

00:31:50.399 --> 00:31:55.760
endorsing the DRM system.

00:31:55.760 --> 00:31:59.600
So what can you do? I don't have a magic

00:31:59.600 --> 00:32:00.880
wand,

00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:04.720
I'm a human being with the capabilities

00:32:04.720 --> 00:32:09.919
I have, but the advantage of

00:32:09.919 --> 00:32:12.840
great firmness in campaigning for free

00:32:12.840 --> 00:32:14.000
software,

00:32:14.000 --> 00:32:18.240
and this enables me to do things

00:32:18.240 --> 00:32:27.679
that no one else will do.

00:32:27.679 --> 00:32:30.480
"What tools from pre-UNIX days do you

00:32:30.480 --> 00:32:31.519
miss?"

00:32:31.519 --> 00:32:34.240
Well, I don't. I don't think about them

00:32:34.240 --> 00:32:38.640
with missing them actually.

00:32:38.640 --> 00:32:42.080
It was sort of nice to have

00:32:42.080 --> 00:32:46.240
ddt as your login shell.

00:32:46.240 --> 00:32:49.600
So, in using modern terminology,

00:32:49.600 --> 00:32:52.640
because that meant at any time you could

00:32:52.640 --> 00:32:55.519
stop a program, load its debugging symbols,

00:32:55.519 --> 00:32:57.519
and start examining the data in the

00:32:57.519 --> 00:32:58.799
instructions.

00:32:58.799 --> 00:33:01.519
You could debug it that way, and then you

00:33:01.519 --> 00:33:03.039
could even

00:33:03.039 --> 00:33:06.720
patch in instructions to continue

00:33:06.720 --> 00:33:09.760
running that job with the bug fixed,

00:33:09.760 --> 00:33:11.600
in fact, you could even do this with the

00:33:11.600 --> 00:33:13.919
system kernel,

00:33:13.919 --> 00:33:16.423
so that your jobs wouldn't get lost.

00:33:16.423 --> 00:33:17.840
I did that

00:33:17.840 --> 00:33:20.559
quite a few times, of course, sometimes I

00:33:20.559 --> 00:33:22.720
saw what was wrong, and I just had to

00:33:22.720 --> 00:33:25.919
fix a piece of data, but sometimes

00:33:25.919 --> 00:33:28.240
it took me a long time to figure out how

00:33:28.240 --> 00:33:29.679
to get the system to

00:33:29.679 --> 00:33:32.480
keep on going. But with the work I had

00:33:32.480 --> 00:33:34.240
done,

00:33:34.240 --> 00:33:39.279
I didn't want to lose that work,

00:33:39.279 --> 00:33:41.600
and, so one of the first features I put

00:33:41.600 --> 00:33:43.039
into GNU Emacs was

00:33:43.039 --> 00:33:47.760
auto save.

00:33:47.760 --> 00:33:50.640
I'm not going to try to figure out

00:33:50.640 --> 00:33:54.320
which packages I actually used.

00:33:54.320 --> 00:33:56.480
"If I knew, I would get hit by a bus

00:33:56.480 --> 00:33:59.039
tomorrow,

00:33:59.039 --> 00:34:02.320
say because of a fortune-teller."

00:34:02.320 --> 00:34:05.039
No, a fortune-teller doesn't give you any

00:34:05.039 --> 00:34:06.240
knowledge, it's just

00:34:06.240 --> 00:34:10.159
superstitious hand waving.

00:34:10.159 --> 00:34:13.760
So, assuming that I

00:34:13.760 --> 00:34:16.480
talked… that I got a reading from a

00:34:16.480 --> 00:34:18.879
fortune-teller, which is

00:34:18.879 --> 00:34:23.119
implausible enough to begin with,

00:34:23.119 --> 00:34:25.040
that wouldn't give me any knowledge

00:34:25.040 --> 00:34:28.320
about what was going to happen to me.

00:34:28.320 --> 00:34:32.879
Oh, by the way fortune-tellers generally

00:34:32.879 --> 00:34:34.960
play back to you facts that they've

00:34:34.960 --> 00:34:36.879
discovered about you

00:34:36.879 --> 00:34:40.480
together with cold reading, which means,

00:34:40.480 --> 00:34:43.440
they say things calculated to make it

00:34:43.440 --> 00:34:44.639
appear that they know

00:34:44.639 --> 00:34:49.119
more than they do or things that

00:34:49.119 --> 00:34:52.399
sound wise to anyone,

00:34:52.399 --> 00:34:55.679
so you can say the same thing to,

00:34:55.679 --> 00:34:58.800
say, 100 people

00:34:58.800 --> 00:35:02.000
and 80 or 90 of them will say, "boy that

00:35:02.000 --> 00:35:06.480
was really accurate".

00:35:06.480 --> 00:35:15.119
But what if for some reason…

00:35:15.119 --> 00:35:17.440
"What advice would I give for

00:35:17.440 --> 00:35:18.560
stewardship of

00:35:18.560 --> 00:35:25.359
Emacs?" Well, basically focus on

00:35:25.359 --> 00:35:28.480
keeping the community strong in

00:35:28.480 --> 00:35:29.280
defending

00:35:29.280 --> 00:35:32.640
freedom, if you have a choice between

00:35:32.640 --> 00:35:34.400
keeping the community strong in

00:35:34.400 --> 00:35:36.079
defending freedom

00:35:36.079 --> 00:35:38.800
and getting more people to participate

00:35:38.800 --> 00:35:40.720
in the development,

00:35:40.720 --> 00:35:42.890
you've got to choose the freedom.

00:35:42.890 --> 00:35:44.400
It is very

00:35:44.400 --> 00:35:48.400
easy for free software projects to

00:35:48.400 --> 00:35:52.320
subordinate freedom to other criteria,

00:35:52.320 --> 00:35:55.359
and once that happens, it's

00:35:55.359 --> 00:35:58.079
easy for those who don't care much about

00:35:58.079 --> 00:35:58.720
freedom,

00:35:58.720 --> 00:36:00.800
such as, sometimes companies that might

00:36:00.800 --> 00:36:02.640
offer you some money

00:36:02.640 --> 00:36:08.160
to purchase your soul,

00:36:08.160 --> 00:36:10.560
not that there are really things that

00:36:10.560 --> 00:36:14.240
exist called souls, it's a metaphor, but

00:36:14.240 --> 00:36:16.560
it's an important metaphor for something

00:36:16.560 --> 00:36:18.800
important.

00:36:18.800 --> 00:36:20.880
People in the community have to be

00:36:20.880 --> 00:36:24.320
thinking about freedom

00:36:24.320 --> 00:36:27.280
when they make decisions about what is

00:36:27.280 --> 00:36:31.839
wise to do.

00:36:31.839 --> 00:36:36.480
The decision to set up NonGNU ELPA

00:36:36.480 --> 00:36:39.357
has a drawback, it was a compromise.

00:36:39.357 --> 00:36:41.520
Now, a lot of people will

00:36:41.520 --> 00:36:44.560
tell you that I am uncompromising and

00:36:44.560 --> 00:36:46.240
say that, that's a flaw.

00:36:46.240 --> 00:36:48.720
Well, they're wrong. I make little

00:36:48.720 --> 00:36:50.320
compromises

00:36:50.320 --> 00:36:53.040
very often, and occasionally I make a

00:36:53.040 --> 00:36:55.359
medium-sized compromise.

00:36:55.359 --> 00:36:58.880
The compromise is, in the past we wanted

00:36:58.880 --> 00:36:59.359
to get

00:36:59.359 --> 00:37:01.599
copyright assignments for the packages

00:37:01.599 --> 00:37:03.823
in GNU ELPA,

00:37:03.823 --> 00:37:06.240
so that we could move them into

00:37:06.240 --> 00:37:09.119
core Emacs, and of course, sometimes we

00:37:09.119 --> 00:37:11.200
move packages in the other direction,

00:37:11.200 --> 00:37:14.480
that way where we distribute a

00:37:14.480 --> 00:37:16.160
given package,

00:37:16.160 --> 00:37:18.160
is something we can decide purely

00:37:18.160 --> 00:37:20.880
technically.

00:37:20.880 --> 00:37:25.200
And however make insisting on getting

00:37:25.200 --> 00:37:26.800
copyright assignments for all the

00:37:26.800 --> 00:37:28.640
packages in GNU ELPA

00:37:28.640 --> 00:37:32.079
meant that we had to say "sorry, no,

00:37:32.079 --> 00:37:35.119
we will not install that

00:37:35.119 --> 00:37:38.560
package in GNU ELPA, unless the

00:37:38.560 --> 00:37:40.957
authors sign copyright assignments".

00:37:40.957 --> 00:37:44.079
And sometimes that's a lot of trouble.

00:37:44.079 --> 00:37:47.520
Well, NonGNU ELPA

00:37:47.520 --> 00:37:50.123
won't require copyright assignments.

00:37:50.123 --> 00:37:51.520
If there's a free package,

00:37:51.520 --> 00:37:54.560
we can make whatever changes, presumably

00:37:54.560 --> 00:37:57.200
small, otherwise, we would probably say

00:37:57.200 --> 00:38:00.560
we don't have time, and then

00:38:00.560 --> 00:38:04.560
put it in. But it does have the drawback

00:38:04.560 --> 00:38:05.599
that,

00:38:05.599 --> 00:38:07.680
in general we won't be able to move

00:38:07.680 --> 00:38:09.119
those packages

00:38:09.119 --> 00:38:12.960
into core Emacs without

00:38:12.960 --> 00:38:14.960
getting the legal papers then that we

00:38:14.960 --> 00:38:20.160
didn't get before.

00:38:20.160 --> 00:38:24.320
"How do you see the future of GNU Emacs?"

00:38:24.320 --> 00:38:27.599
I don't see the future.

00:38:27.599 --> 00:38:29.839
I used to say that my crystal ball is

00:38:29.839 --> 00:38:31.680
cloudy today,

00:38:31.680 --> 00:38:35.680
unfortunately, that has another

00:38:35.680 --> 00:38:38.423
meaning which is quite ironic.

00:38:38.423 --> 00:38:41.200
We certainly don't want

00:38:41.200 --> 00:38:44.800
our lives to be

00:38:44.800 --> 00:38:48.480
somewhere in a cloud, because

00:38:48.480 --> 00:38:51.119
that clouds remind, and then people

00:38:51.119 --> 00:38:51.599
start

00:38:51.599 --> 00:38:54.240
cheating you and taking advantage of you,

00:38:54.240 --> 00:38:56.880
and it's horrible.

00:38:56.880 --> 00:39:00.160
But I don't see the future, I just

00:39:00.160 --> 00:39:02.720
can be sure from the past that there

00:39:02.720 --> 00:39:03.839
will be

00:39:03.839 --> 00:39:07.599
challenges where some of the people

00:39:07.599 --> 00:39:10.720
involved want to make a big compromise

00:39:10.720 --> 00:39:12.960
that isn't worth it,

00:39:12.960 --> 00:39:16.880
and they may even get the

00:39:16.880 --> 00:39:18.079
impression that it's

00:39:18.079 --> 00:39:21.200
up to them. Well, actually

00:39:21.200 --> 00:39:24.480
Emacs has appointed maintainers just as

00:39:24.480 --> 00:39:27.440
every GNU package does, and they are the

00:39:27.440 --> 00:39:29.280
ones in charge of developing that

00:39:29.280 --> 00:39:30.480
package,

00:39:30.480 --> 00:39:34.400
and this is for a good reason

00:39:34.400 --> 00:39:38.200
because the appointed maintainers take

00:39:38.200 --> 00:39:39.760
responsibility

00:39:39.760 --> 00:39:42.240
to carry out the GNU project policies,

00:39:42.240 --> 00:39:44.079
and most important of all

00:39:44.079 --> 00:39:46.160
are the ones that make the whole system

00:39:46.160 --> 00:39:47.520
work together,

00:39:47.520 --> 00:39:52.640
and the ethical standards

00:39:52.640 --> 00:39:59.920
to respect freedom and defend freedom.

00:39:59.920 --> 00:40:02.240
"Is there any plan to move more packages

00:40:02.240 --> 00:40:04.960
from core Emacs into ELPA?"

00:40:04.960 --> 00:40:08.480
I don't know

00:40:08.480 --> 00:40:11.440
whether there is a plan, I suppose if

00:40:11.440 --> 00:40:12.720
there's a plan,

00:40:12.720 --> 00:40:15.680
we probably would have done it. If there

00:40:15.680 --> 00:40:16.960
had been a plan,

00:40:16.960 --> 00:40:18.657
some have been moved.

00:40:18.657 --> 00:40:20.319
I don't see this as a

00:40:20.319 --> 00:40:22.400
fundamentally important issue, it's a

00:40:22.400 --> 00:40:24.160
matter of what's convenient for

00:40:24.160 --> 00:40:26.640
the users, and their advantages and

00:40:26.640 --> 00:40:29.599
disadvantages to each choice.

00:40:29.599 --> 00:40:32.800
"What is your opinion on higher education

00:40:32.800 --> 00:40:35.760
requiring non-free software, for

00:40:35.760 --> 00:40:36.720
instance…"

00:40:36.720 --> 00:40:40.400
Well, I wouldn't

00:40:40.400 --> 00:40:43.440
matriculate in a school which did that,

00:40:43.440 --> 00:40:50.960
unless I saw a way I could refuse.

00:40:50.960 --> 00:40:54.960
Now, of course, I do this

00:40:54.960 --> 00:40:57.760
because I can get away with it, and

00:40:57.760 --> 00:41:00.240
therefore my doing it is extremely

00:41:00.240 --> 00:41:04.960
important to show somebody does resist.

00:41:04.960 --> 00:41:08.400
I don't expect most people who support

00:41:08.400 --> 00:41:09.359
free school,

00:41:09.359 --> 00:41:12.319
who advocate free software to go that

00:41:12.319 --> 00:41:13.599
far.

00:41:13.599 --> 00:41:17.760
I published an article in the spring

00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:21.040
entitled saying no even once

00:41:21.040 --> 00:41:24.640
is helping, saying no to non-free

00:41:24.640 --> 00:41:25.359
software

00:41:25.359 --> 00:41:29.040
even once, because

00:41:29.040 --> 00:41:32.240
the more you do it, the more you help, but

00:41:32.240 --> 00:41:34.640
even doing it a little in a way that

00:41:34.640 --> 00:41:36.640
other people notice,

00:41:36.640 --> 00:41:39.920
is starting to help. So,

00:41:39.920 --> 00:41:43.440
please don't think that your choices

00:41:43.440 --> 00:41:45.119
are either

00:41:45.119 --> 00:41:48.480
be as firm and stubborn as I am

00:41:48.480 --> 00:41:52.240
or just give up and let yourself drift

00:41:52.240 --> 00:41:56.240
helplessly as if you had no volition.

00:41:56.240 --> 00:41:58.079
There are a lot of points in between

00:41:58.079 --> 00:42:00.720
there, and you can surely

00:42:00.720 --> 00:42:04.079
manage to say no some of the time

00:42:04.079 --> 00:42:07.839
and show people an example of saying no

00:42:07.839 --> 00:42:11.040
some of the time, for instance, you could

00:42:11.040 --> 00:42:12.720
say to people,

00:42:12.720 --> 00:42:15.520
"You know I hate the fact that my school

00:42:15.520 --> 00:42:16.000
makes me

00:42:16.000 --> 00:42:20.400
use Zoom, so whenever

00:42:20.400 --> 00:42:22.240
I'm not being forced, I'm not going to

00:42:22.240 --> 00:42:25.760
use it".

00:42:25.760 --> 00:42:29.200
Or "I hate the fact that the only way I

00:42:29.200 --> 00:42:31.200
can talk to that group of people

00:42:31.200 --> 00:42:35.200
is with Zoom,

00:42:35.200 --> 00:42:38.400
but for anything else I will feel better

00:42:38.400 --> 00:42:40.079
about myself if I don't".

00:42:40.079 --> 00:42:42.880
See, lots of ways to say no some of the

00:42:42.880 --> 00:42:44.000
time,

00:42:44.000 --> 00:42:47.040
and yield some of the time,

00:42:47.040 --> 00:42:50.960
and when you try saying no occasionally,

00:42:50.960 --> 00:42:53.920
you may just develop the ability to say

00:42:53.920 --> 00:42:56.400
no more often.

00:42:56.400 --> 00:42:58.800
Now, whether you would ever get to be as

00:42:58.800 --> 00:43:00.640
stubborn as I am?

00:43:00.640 --> 00:43:04.480
I don't know, but what I find is that

00:43:04.480 --> 00:43:08.480
I like the fact that I've never made

00:43:08.480 --> 00:43:12.480
this kind of compromise.

00:43:12.480 --> 00:43:15.839
I feel I have a reputation to maintain,

00:43:15.839 --> 00:43:19.319
nobody's forcing me, but I get

00:43:19.319 --> 00:43:21.119
satisfaction

00:43:21.119 --> 00:43:24.319
out of maintaining…, out of being able to

00:43:24.319 --> 00:43:26.400
continue to say

00:43:26.400 --> 00:43:30.880
I will not.

00:43:30.880 --> 00:43:34.480
And that also

00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:40.480
can happen at various different levels,

00:43:40.480 --> 00:43:43.520
so, you can get that satisfaction

00:43:43.520 --> 00:43:46.640
of fully maintaining a refusal

00:43:46.640 --> 00:43:54.400
that applies only to certain areas.

00:43:54.400 --> 00:43:57.040
(Amin: since it's noon already, let's maybe

00:43:57.040 --> 00:43:58.880
take one or two more questions and then

00:43:58.880 --> 00:43:59.599
break for

00:43:59.599 --> 00:44:03.200
the lunch break) Okay. (Amin: Thank you).

00:44:03.200 --> 00:44:05.757
"How often do you personally use Emacs?"

00:44:05.757 --> 00:44:10.640
is the lowest question now.

00:44:10.640 --> 00:44:16.640
Well, I use it most of the day.

00:44:16.640 --> 00:44:18.880
I occasionally do use other things, in

00:44:18.880 --> 00:44:20.160
fact, I occasionally edit with

00:44:20.160 --> 00:44:21.599
LibreOffice,

00:44:21.599 --> 00:44:24.240
I occasionally use media players,

00:44:24.240 --> 00:44:32.480
I occasionally ssh to a machine and type

00:44:32.480 --> 00:44:34.000
some commands on it,

00:44:34.000 --> 00:44:35.440
which occasionally includes running

00:44:35.440 --> 00:44:42.319
Emacs on it.

00:44:42.319 --> 00:44:45.760
I read PDF files a lot,

00:44:45.760 --> 00:44:47.520
would be nice if you could get those

00:44:47.520 --> 00:44:49.599
into Emacs, so that I could read them

00:44:49.599 --> 00:44:52.240
with Emacs commands,

00:44:52.240 --> 00:44:55.040
and I maybe even edit them with the Emacs

00:44:55.040 --> 00:44:56.160
commands

00:44:56.160 --> 00:44:59.440
when they can be edited. I use

00:44:59.440 --> 00:45:02.960
Xournal sometimes

00:45:02.960 --> 00:45:10.079
to write on a PDF file.

00:45:10.079 --> 00:45:12.160
"Are there any more interesting projects

00:45:12.160 --> 00:45:13.760
you have in mind over and above

00:45:13.760 --> 00:45:18.400
NonGNU ELPA?"

00:45:18.400 --> 00:45:22.079
I can't think of one right now, well,

00:45:22.079 --> 00:45:25.520
there are things that

00:45:25.520 --> 00:45:27.119
the GNU project needs

00:45:27.119 --> 00:45:30.560
doing, there are packages that don't have

00:45:30.560 --> 00:45:32.319
maintainers or could use

00:45:32.319 --> 00:45:35.839
more maintainers.

00:45:35.839 --> 00:45:38.880
Talk with maintainers@gnu.org,

00:45:38.880 --> 00:45:42.000
and the assistant GNUisances will

00:45:42.000 --> 00:45:44.960
help you find a package where you can do

00:45:44.960 --> 00:45:48.400
good.

00:45:48.400 --> 00:45:50.560
Not for beginners though,

00:45:50.560 --> 00:45:52.079
you got to learn

00:45:52.079 --> 00:45:55.599
a substantive substantial level of

00:45:55.599 --> 00:45:58.160
capacity to develop and debug programs

00:45:58.160 --> 00:45:59.440
before you can

00:45:59.440 --> 00:46:00.823
be a maintainer.

00:46:00.823 --> 00:46:04.480
"Have I ever looked at Magit?"

00:46:04.480 --> 00:46:08.400
No, I haven't,

00:46:08.400 --> 00:46:11.920
but I believe

00:46:11.920 --> 00:46:14.880
work is being done to get it put into

00:46:14.880 --> 00:46:16.560
Emacs,

00:46:16.560 --> 00:46:22.240
and at that point I'll give it a try.

00:46:22.240 --> 00:46:25.200
I do not want to share my configuration

00:46:25.200 --> 00:46:29.520
files they're personal.

00:46:29.520 --> 00:46:33.599
How about if we end this now?

00:46:33.599 --> 00:46:36.880
(Amin: sounds good to me,

00:46:36.880 --> 00:46:38.880
thank you very much Richard for joining

00:46:38.880 --> 00:46:41.520
in for live questions.)

00:46:41.520 --> 00:46:43.839
Okay.