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[[!meta title="Meeting notes"]]
-[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2020 Amin Bandali, Sacha Chua, David O'Toole, Corwin Brust, Leo Vivier, Daniel Gopar"]]
+[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2021 Amin Bandali, Sacha Chua, David O'Toole, Corwin Brust, Leo Vivier, Daniel Gopar"]]
<!-- Automatically generated from meetings.org -->
# Ongoing projects
+- Tech
+ - Figuring out a better streaming workflow (speakers & OBS)
+ - Review whether we need FH’s BBB instance: mplsCorwin & bandali
+ - CDN with Nate Saltes: mplsCorwin, bandali
+
- Subtitles/transcripts: sachac, bhavin192
-- FOSSHost: mplsCorwin
- Calendar, connecting with meetups: sachac
- Streaming infrastructure for meetups?: bandali, sachac
+ - set of methods for clipping, publishing, etc.
+
- Amin and Gopar's podcast: bandali, gopar
-- mplsCorwin's livestreaming project, working on trimming
- Writing about Emacs: zaeph
+- mplsCorwin's livestreaming project, working on trimming
+- Diversity outreach: gopar, sachac, zaeph
+- Finding a parallel monthly day for EmacsConf prep meetings
+ - Write-up for streaming with FLOSS
+- Mediation project between MELPA and org-mode’s core: zaeph
+
+
+# March 5, 2021 meeting
+
+- Agenda
+ - BBB
+ - Follow-up from Emacs-SF session on <span class="timestamp-wrapper"><span class="timestamp">&lt;2021-03-05 Fri&gt;</span></span>
+ - Do we need to give moderators rights to orgas?
+ - Podcast
+ - Update on intro song
+ - Ping shoshin, and define a loose schedule
+ - bandali will go listen to things
+ - Creating a list of people to invite to the show
+ - Qiantan (crdt)
+ - Protesilaos Stavrou
+ - John Wiegley
+ - Bastien Guerry
+ - Adam Porter (alphapapa) - package maintainers group?
+ - Jonas Bernoulli (tarsius)
+ - FSF people? Zoe? Greg? rwp?
+ - Drew Adams (@oracle.com, probably)
+
+ - gopar sent things to re-record
+ - Usergroups
+ - zaeph: Report on M-x Research
+ - Paths of collaboration between M-x Research and ERG
+ - zaeph: Report on Emacs-SF
+ - FOSSHost BBB worked out well for them
+ - discussed federation of communities
+ - ag
+ - people are interested in publishing stuff
+ - make it easier to get clips out?
+ - highlight clips webm
+ - handle text/timing information (ex: oops at 7:05, or clip from 2:00 to 10:00)
+ - zaeph: TODO: Work with orgas for Emacs-SF
+ - They're the next public meetup and are hyped about the idea, so zaeph will coordinate re: being okay with making the presentation public and clipping it out to publish for them
+ - Keep track of start/end time and any oops times
+ - zaeph: Report on Emacs Paris
+ - zaeph’s crowdfunding
+ - packages and core
+- Updates:
+ - bandali: talk accepted for LibrePlanet 2021, congrats! Jami and how it empowers users.
+ - Please ask them how they're streaming captions so that we can borrow the ideas for EmacsConf (they were looking for volunteers at <https://groups.google.com/g/ploversteno/c/TWEx31PasrE>). Also, if they edit subtitles, subed.el might be useful for them.
+ - sachac: more Emacs tweaking
+ - figure out workflow for splitting things out of meetup recordings
+ - mplsCorwin: still kind of out of it, get well soon!
+ - New domain: literatecloud. FOSSHost building new partnerships. 00:06:03-00:09:15 more secret part. Try to nudge towards LibreJS?
+- Next steps:
+ - Sacha will work on Emacs calendar publishing workflow
+ - New CNAME - maybe bbb.emacsverse.org (meet.emacsverse.org?)
+ - ‘Let’s just do it and figure out what we have to do with FH/BBB to get it working.’
+ - Investigate enabling LibreJS for FH’s BBB
+ - zaeph: Grep ‘TODO’
+
+
+# February 27, 2021 meeting
+
+- Agenda
+ - Check-in
+
+ - Follow-ups from last week
+ - Podcast update
+ - bandali said he might have a version of the podcast that we could review
+ - bandali is almost done with editing the first episode
+ - Some re-recording might be warranted for the start and the end
+ - He’s aiming for a preview version by <span class="timestamp-wrapper"><span class="timestamp">[2021-02-28 Sun]</span></span>
+ - The editing workflow has been figured out, and gopar might be able to handle the editing for episode 2
+ - Release plan
+ - Order
+ - 1: EmacsConf
+ - 2: Maxima with Fermin
+ - 3: ERC
+ - Tentative agenda
+ - <span class="timestamp-wrapper"><span class="timestamp">[2021-02-28 Sun] </span></span> 1st episode for us to review (no pressure!)
+ - Tentative schedule
+ - Tue or Wed if we’re not worried about the intro music
+ - We do not have an intro song yet
+ - In January, bandali talked with shoshin in the #emsig channel for commissioning an intro, but shoshin didn’t have much time to work on this because of work
+ - TODO Maybe we could try pinging him again?
+ - Could we put out a call for people to submit their intro?
+ - Reddit
+ - No news segment for the two first one
+ - We still don’t have an intro song
+ - TODO Find an intro song
+
+ - Future topics
+ - bandali & gopar: They could invite zaeph to talk about the crowdfunding or any related projects
+ - So far, no proper agenda for the guests, but something that we might figure out in the coming weeks
+ - TODO Try to come up with a list of people to get on the show
+ - EmacsConf’s FLOSS streaming facility
+
+ - bandali updates
+ - In March, bandali might have more time on his hands, and he might have time to prepare his presentation for LibrePlanet
+ - (date of the talk: <span class="timestamp-wrapper"><span class="timestamp">[2021-03-20 Sat]</span></span>, deadline for submitting the slides: <span class="timestamp-wrapper"><span class="timestamp">[2021-03-08 Mon]</span></span>)
+
+ - Nice progress on Jami, and Amin might be done within 2 weeks
+
+ - bandali is planning to have some time to invest into writing the guide on streaming with FLOSS
+ - Some progress has been made, but it’s been mostly ad-hoc with the people who asked
+ - Tentative date for a rough draft: <span class="timestamp-wrapper"><span class="timestamp">[2021-03-27 Sat]</span></span>
+ - Tentative date for a release: mid-April (but again, no pressure! ಠ\_ಠ)
+
+ - Negative feedback on the quality of one of the recordings
+ - [EmacsConf 2020 - 12 - One Big-ass Org File or multiple tiny ones? - Leo Vivier - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1o1qwAjleGk)
+ - The stream resolution is 720p with an external monitor to avoid rescaling the video
+ - One of the bottlenecks with the previous EmacsConf was the rescaling
+ - Setup: Laptop 720p + Streaming to 1080p
+ - This year, it looked nicer
+ - bandali does not think he’s got enough computing power to handle 1080p
+ - 2 days of 1080p streaming might be too much for bandali’s unit (understandably)
+ - Questions
+ - Do we agree that the quality was sub-par, for this talk or for others as well?
+ - bandali: Probably ‘yes’, and we knew it going into it; this is one of the reasons why we encouraged pre-recordings
+ - The pre-recordings had good quality (streamed at 720p, but published at the native resolution, which was up to 2k)
+ - It was very readable, and there wasn’t a time when bandali couldn’t read what was on the screen
+ - The shared video with BBB sometimes was subpar
+ - The problem
+ - Ways to solve the problem
+ - Composing the window maximally with OBS
+ - mplsCorwin: Using OBS and asking the speakers to stream to a URL that we’d provide to them; it’s EZPZ.
+ - Corwin has had real success with OBS, so that all his kids can have OBS running, and Corwin can bounce them via nginx
+ - TODO Let’s figure out an OBS-based workflow for webcam/screen feeds
+ - Having multiple tracks for speakers
+ - Offline talks
+ - Pre-recs
+ - Live talks
+ - Easy
+ - BBB
+ - Intermediate
+ - OBS & streaming to address
+
+ - FH’s BBB sitrep
+ - zaeph: No news from EmacsSF, so I’ll assume it’s next week; which also means that we’ve got no data
+ - At least
+
+ - CDN for the videos
+ - We got an offer for EU-based hosting (France & Germany)
+ - yang@freenode
+ - This would help us address the slow DL for EU viewers
+ - bandali is investigating FLOSS CDN options
+ - mplsCorwin: Definitely an offer we should take them up on
+ - Can we deploy a FLOSS CDN to handle those different servers?
+ - FH has a partnership with PacketFrame
+ - FLOSS CDN app, developed by Nate Sales; Corwin did some work with them on an org-inspired, lambda-based workflow; PoC underway
+ - CDN for video content is a bit of a weird usecase
+ - Optimisation is definitely done within routing-layer: ‘IP address, and network addresses which are specifically create subnets for delivery; beyond that, it’s just the usual caching thing’
+ - Could we get Nate Sales on board to help us with this topic?
+ - Let’s try to do it on the <span class="timestamp-wrapper"><span class="timestamp">[2021-03-13 Sat]</span></span>, or any time during the following week
+ - mplsCorwin is sending them a note and will keep us in touch
+
+ - zaeph: EmacsBerlin update
+ - They might be interested in a BBB instance
+ - Michael Albinus (maint of TRAMP) is interested in working with me on advanced optimisation (for org-roam and org-mode)
+
+ - Mailing list
+ - bandali will ping bhavin192 for which email they want
+ - He didn’t have the time to do it yet; the TZ aren’t nice.
+ - Any other news?
+
+ - ERG update
+ - Today, weare meeting with Mark Dawson from `M-x Research`
+
+ - zaeph’s crowfunding
+ - sitrep
+ - Discussion
+ - On funding for the dev of Emacs’s core
+ - RMS might have made a comment that financing Emacs should be done with FLOSS tools (e.g. non-free JS)
+ - [Liberapay](https://en.liberapay.com/) might be a solution
+ - mplsCorwin: ‘The fact that we have multiple string-manipulation librairies is a sign of sickness in the community’
+ - Related to Perl and CPAN
+
+ - FSF sponsorship
+ - zaeph: No update
+
+
+# February 20, 2021 meeting
+
+- Discuss distribution of meetings / podcasts
+ - For grabbing BBB’s recordings
+ - With Firefox
+ - [Video DownloadHelper – Get this Extension for 🦊 Firefox (en-US)](https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/video-downloadhelper/)
+ - Download the two feeds (one for presentation, and one for all the webcams)
+- Updates
+ - gopar: been busy
+ - bandali: busy at work too
+ - sachac: experimenting with captions (can do mic+browser audio now), gstreamer->OBS
+- Podcast with bandali and gopar
+ - Last week, they’ve interviewed Fermin on his experience with Maxima
+ - Name
+ - EmacsNow (how did we not think of this before?)
+ - bandali got the idea BSDNow
+ - Maybe prepending the name with `M-x`?
+ - bandali wanted something very short and
+ - He also wanted to use a theme for the podcast’s website which would be based on Emacs
+ - As a stretch-goal, we could merge a \`emacs-now\` command into core to open the podcast
+ - If elfeed (or any other RSS, maybe GNUS?) could be merged into Emacs, the command could bring you to the feed for the podcast
+ - Everyone seems to agree that EmacsNow is a good, short name, and that we should go with it
+ - Format?
+ - This one was a lengthy podcast: more than 1h30, but it was very interesting
+ - gopar and Fermin bonded over chess, which was fun!
+ - bandali and gopar would be interested in extending the podcast to other topics beyond Emacs
+ - Would that be a good idea?
+
+- M-x Research
+ - ERG is not the only group working on research within Emacs: there is also \`M-x Research\`
+
+- ERG’s last meeting: Intervieww with Peeragogy
+ - It went well, and I’m too tired to re-write what I’ve said during the meeting (sorry!)
+
+- Need volunteers to publish to certain popular platforms (i.e. itunes)
+ - bandali and gopar have some experience with it, and mplsCorwin was willing to help as well
+
+- Leo: FSF sponsorship
+ - Table it for now; Leo hasn’t had time to work on it this week.
+
+- Leo: Kickstarter for org-mode core mediation
+ - Mentioned the project of mediating the org-mode MELPA ecosystem and the core of Emacs
+ - bandali thinks it’s interesting to think about the whole packagers within Emacs (including MELPA)
+ - Before, it used to be just ELPA; but then, MELPA came along, but because of its raison d’être, it was never implemented into the core of Emacs
+ - Non-GNU ELPA doesn’t require CLA; the mediation project might be a nice way to bridge the gap between those communities
+ - Might help with discoverability
+ - Surveying the field (and the people) to see which package would
+ - Ecosystem of org-mode packages
+ - Questions from bandali
+ - How would this project work within the new doctrine for org-mode (i.e. fragmentation of maintenance in a federated way)?
+ - Folding org-mode development back into the Emacs repository?
+ - ‘Emacs’s core is where packages go to die’ (Leo; please don’t quote him on this in unauthorised spaces)
+ - Could we get bzg involved in the discussion?
+ - Not right now; Leo needs to finish his contract before he starts diverting himself towards greener fields.
+ - Financial aspect
+ - Leo thinks it’d be **very** complicated to reach th number that Jonas (tarsius) reached with magit; however, it would be possible to get a project going with only a fraction of that
+
+> 17k EUR for 6 month of work
+> 2100 EUR/monthly (compared to the 1500 EUR / 1800 USD I was making as a professor)
+> 25% goes to social security in France, up to 10% goes to taxes
+> I’m aiming to release this on March 15 or on April 1st (depending on how many people I need to reach out to)
+> There would be also a stretch-goal of doing this for a eyar if I get 34k
+
+- EmacsSF & BBB
+ - Could we test-run FH’s BBB instance rather than the FSF’s?
+ - In theory, it’s doable, and it’s why it was given to us for
+ - We’re going to test-drive it, and we’ll report how it went (zaeph & maybe sachac?)
+
+- Next time
+ - bandali might have a version of the podcast that we could review
+ - One of the episodes
+ - 1: EmacsConf: how it went generally (not the actual title)
+ - 2: ERG
+ - 3: Maxima with Fermin
+ - The order is still unclear, but the three episodes are recorded
+ - bandali is planning to have some time to ivnest into writing the guide on streaming with FLOSS (but **no pressure**!! ಠ\_ಠ)
+ - Tentative agenda
+ - zaeph: Kickstarter for MELPA/core org-mode
+ - Especially to get sachac’s opinion
+ - Podcast update
+ - FH review based on EmacsSF
+ - Mailing list
+ - bandali will ping bhavin192 for which email they want
+
+
+# February 13, 2021 meeting
+
+- Homework from previous meeting:
+ - For everyone:
+ - Think about ways to organize and flesh out the [Emacs Diversity](https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/EmacsDiversity) page.
+ - How do we give it better structure?
+ - Leo: Work on the FSF thing (for <span class="timestamp-wrapper"><span class="timestamp">[2021-02-15 Mon]</span></span>)
+ - Sacha: Figure out toggling mute from Emacs and add it to my modeline, since my computer LED doesn't work =)
+ - Sacha: Edit more subtitles
+ - Future points
+ - bandali & mplsCorwin: Gauge whether we can/need to use FH’s BBB.
+ - …For our own meetings/workshops?
+ - …For the next EmacsConf?
+ - Maybe we should figure out a streaming server that can accept RTMP, so meetups on Jitsi can stream
+- mplsCorwin showed OBS multicast plugin
+- bandali is looking into RTMP ingest
+- Updates:
+ - bandali: busy at work
+ - mplsCorwin: work
+ - sachac: more subed tweaks (can now cut video based on subtitles, hide non-text stuff with overlays =) ); EmacsSF meetup, ERC automation with run-at-time, Twitter is being annoying about adding incorrect cards)
+ - zaeph: meetup guests, package maintenance, fundraising
+- Interest in live captions, Sacha is looking into it
+ - Hmm, maybe hooked into crdt so that people can volunteer, and then the moderator can send the caption out to the streaming service
+ - Need to figure out how to get the subtitles out (OBS can send captions to Twitch, I think, so it's probably possible to do something similar&#x2026; Icecast?)
+
+- Sacha’s tweets for meetups
+ - Making the format nicer? It’s difficult to know which timezones to include in the tweets: which ones should we keep?
+ - Suggestions welcome!
+ - Adapting based on the language of the event (Paris → GMT+2, maybe neighbouring countries, etc.)
+- BBB: FSF vs. FH?
+ - Let’s postpone the decision for now; that’ll give us time to check with people (i.e. in the workshops) if they want to make use of it.
+ - Use FH hosted infrastructure for "federation" (e.g. offering to other groups)
+ - Use FSF for email, use FSF for EmacsConf BBB
+- ERG: Report on meeting with Qiantan (crdt.el’s maint)
+ - Lots of good news, and Qiantan
+ - bandali: ‘Once most of the important issues have been taken care of, he should probably contact Emacs dev’
+- EmacsSF report
+ - They’re interested in our effort to federate the different workshops.
+ - They’re having another session in 3 weeks (<span class="timestamp-wrapper"><span class="timestamp">[2021-02-26 Fri]</span></span>)
+ - Main topic: Follow-up on the completion systems
+ - They’re interested in getting access to a BBB instance
+ - We’ll use the opportunity to stress-test FH’s instance
+ - We’ll also have a Jitsi room ready as a backup
+- ERG: Meeting people from Peeragogy today
+ - Bridging the gap between curious academics who are working on collaborative e-Research.
+- Amin’s follow-up on Mailman
+ - Almost ready to go for emacsconf/emacsverse mailman lists
+ - TODOs:
+ - Non-list emails
+ - Listhelper for anti-spam
+ - Corwin’s idea: Vanity email addresses @emacsverse.org?
+
+Next actions:
+
+- Discuss distribution of meetings / podcasts
+- Need volunteers to publish to certain popular platforms (i.e. itunes)
+- Leo: FSF sponsorship
+
+
+# February 6, 2021 meeting
+
+- Checking in with everyone
+ - bandali: Crunch at work with the latest release of Debian, Icecat release
+ - zaeph: possible actual department for free software at his current work
+ - mplsCorwin: vacation, extra week, yay PTO! Looking more into literate programming. (Grant Rettke recently shared how he uses untangling to make it easier for people to edit the resulting source code files)
+ - sachac:
+ - Emacs calendar can now handle recurring events
+ - Now done with a Python script instead of an old Ruby script
+ - Some people are starting to use it!
+ - Especially for the meetups.
+ - Started figuring out Twitch streaming
+ - updated obs-websocket at <https://github.com/sachac/obs-websocket-el>, can easily switch scenes, start/stop recording, put a message up in a buffer, capture timestamped notes/markers into a WebVTT file
+ - Sacha is curious about gstreamer; maybe if Amin got around to writing his gstreamer script, Sacha could get around to using it for Twitch?
+ - Sacha is also working on a system for using Twitch’s API to send subtitles/descriptions
+ - used mozart-dice-game NPM to generate a whole bunch of piano minuet MIDIs, yay generated music; used selectric-mode to add typing sounds
+ - looked into OBS SendCaptions, but might not be able to easily get it to work under Linux; might consider other ways to send live captions and markers
+ - Started sketching out EmacsDiversity page
+ - Next up: test my hydra for editing subtitles,
+- Points
+ - Diversity
+ - Iterating over [EmacsWiki : Emacs Diversity](https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/EmacsDiversity) (you might be thinking about EmacsChannelDemographics)
+ - Podcast update?
+ - shoshin update on the intro music?
+ - Answer this question: ‘What kinds of talks do we generally want?’
+ - Working off our configs; explaining parts of our config (mplsCorwin)
+ - Inspiration, integrated workflow demos
+ - Really cool programming demo
+ - Really cool nonprogramming demo
+ - The goal would be to get people to read other people’s code; something vaguely archeological: ‘if I could do this, even though it wasn’t great code, it did the job!’
+ - A lot of people respond to those ‘programming but not’ / surface-programming approaches to code.
+ - ERG reports on what we’re working on (zaeph)
+ - Meta-workshops on how they’re organised/run, what goes into it (zaeph)
+ - Writing modes / releasing modes
+ - How do we go from some intricate code inside a personal config to a package releasable to the public?
+ - Hacking on Emacs C core (bandali)
+ - Some of the more involved modification of Emacs will need to be done in the C core.
+ - Maybe we could consider inviting Stéfan Monnier?
+ - Native compilation, maybe dynamic modules?
+
+ - Amin: Check how much time it would take to deploy Mailman for the workshops.
+ - Are we trading low up-front effort (asking maintainers to create a mailing list) for high ongoing effort (keeping our own mailing list system going)?
+ - Amin talked to someone else who can help set this up, maybe even this weekend. Main domain? Maybe emacsverse?
+ - Stack: Trisql, Exim, Mailman
+ - Could it work with FOSSHost?
+ - Since it’s geared to the end-users, and based on our relationship with them (via mplsCorwin), we might be able to ask them to host the server.
+ - FOSSHost did set up a BBB for us; we should gauge whether we want/need to use it.
+ - Hmm&#x2026; mplsCorwin, would FOSSHost like to talk to the other Emacs meetups to see if they want to join up? I think it was EmacsNYC or EmacsATX that has been experimenting with self-hosting Jitsi, and EmacsBerlin self-hosts Jitsi. Could be later on.
+ - Domain discussion
+ - emacsverse
+ - Mailing lists and co. would go on their
+ - All in all:
+ - We’re very close to having Mailman ready for the meetups/workshops.
+ - FH & BBB: What **scope** do we want?
+ - ‘Do we want Emacs NYC to get their own server, or do we want to manage a single, federated instance with user-account, self-management, etc.?’
+ - We’d be in charge of most of the management of that instance, and we wouldn’t be piggy-backing on the FSF’s instance.
+ - We'll figure out our own stuff first, maybe, and then we can get the other folks in
+ - Improving the diversity page: [EmacsWiki : Emacs Diversity](https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/EmacsDiversity)
+ - Right now, the page only contains an alphabetised list of names
+
+rganising the names on that page in a more relevant fashion?
+
+- Two sides of the question:
+ - "I feel a little isolated. I don't know other Emacs users, and it seems you have to be a real computer geek in order to use Emacs. Are there people like me?"
+ - ‘What are some different ways you can use Emacs, and what kinds of people use Emacs?
+ - People might be unwilling to identify as marginalised groups: how do we resolve this?
+- Diversity of usage: What is Emacs being used for?
+- Diversity of people: By whom is Emacs being used?
+
+- Homework:
+ - For everyone:
+ - Think about ways to organize and flesh out the [Emacs Diversity](https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/EmacsDiversity) page.
+ - How do we give it better structure?
+ - Leo: Work on the FSF thing (for <span class="timestamp-wrapper"><span class="timestamp">[2021-02-15 Mon]</span></span>)
+ - Sacha: Figure out toggling mute from Emacs and add it to my modeline, since my computer LED doesn't work =)
+ - Sacha: Edit more subtitles
+ - Future points
+ - bandali & mplsCorwin: Gauge whether we can/need to use FH’s BBB.
+ - …For our own meetings/workshops?
+ - …For the next EmacsConf?
+ - Maybe we should figure out a streaming server that can accept RTMP, so meetups on Jitsi can stream
# January 28, 2021 meeting
@@ -138,12 +548,13 @@
- Homework
- Answer this question: ‘What kinds of talks do we generally want?’
- Amin: Check how much time it would take to deploy Mailman for the workshops.
- - Leo: Update bhavin on the mailing stuff to let him that we are currently looking into options
- - Leo: Sending a get-well-soon to David
+ - [X] Leo: Update bhavin on the mailing stuff to let him know that we are currently looking into options.
+ - [X] Leo: Sending a get-well-soon to David.
- How strongly do we want to ask for pre-recs?
- Definitely at least as much as this year.
- It’s also much easier for Amin to chill when we have pre-recs.
+ - We need to incentives speakers by telling sending their pre-recs early, we can do some adjustments.
# January 21, 2021 meeting