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diff --git a/2025/talks/zettelkasten.md b/2025/talks/zettelkasten.md index 677d937b..0ee51214 100644 --- a/2025/talks/zettelkasten.md +++ b/2025/talks/zettelkasten.md @@ -70,7 +70,7 @@ This is the relevant configuration Christian used in the Emacs demo. Save this t ;; For the demo, I forced notes to show in full screen by default. (setopt display-buffer-alist nil) (add-to-list 'display-buffer-alist - '("^\\[D\\] " ;; Denote buffer name prefix + '("^[D] " ;; Denote buffer name prefix (display-buffer-reuse-mode-window display-buffer-full-frame) )) ``` @@ -238,6 +238,214 @@ note. After all, you came up with the idea just now -- so maybe there's a connection that you just can't spell out, yet? ``` +## Discussion / notes + +- Q: I wonder what they use for the fancy animations (what is your + presenation software stack?) +- A: Apple Keynote -- sorry for the proprietary product, I'm + just fastest with that. PowerPoint also works, and when + PowerPoint can do, LibreOffice can also do. It's more about + sticking to a few simple transitions and timings, like fading + and directional movement/wiping, and you're good. Read + "slide:ology", that's amazing and full of great examples. +- Q: Are you not a fan of using *, **, *** headings in + org-mode? (It's interesting to see how people have different + styles of writing org content.) + - A: Didn't see a need for hierarchical structure for the + presentation. Also I'm leaning towards sequential writing, i.e. + 'notes as blog post' pattern, or in our technical terms: "A + Zettel should be like a StackOverflow post: a self-contained + answer, specific to the question, with references to learn more + if needed." An outline doesn't fit that well. + - Fair enough. Thanks. +- Q: can you use org files and all its features inside denote? + - A: Yes, this is an org file and Denote uses Org headings. +- Q: Where/how do you like to capture fleeting notes? + - A: Uses small paper notes. (Also don't get hung-up on + terminology like this please :)) +- Q: Zettelkasten feels like a very "cagey" approach to note-taking + and knowledge management. Doesn't it restrict one to think in + certain ways rather than what feels natural to someone? + - A: Take that feeling of being caged in as feedback to adjust the + process. Otherwise, the rules I subject myself to are voluntary. + I give my best during the writing stage, which is 'cagey' and + taking more effort, too, for the benefit of my research in the + long run. + - Makes sense. Thanks! I'll give another shot to zettelkasten and + rewatch your talk! +- Q: How does denote compare to org-roam? + - A: Denote is smaller, allows finding notes, but gets out of your + way otherwise. +- Q:I noticed that the wikipedia link you wrote was typed wrongly - + and it got me thinking about how to deal with broken links at scale? + Do you have any thoughts on this? What about archival? + - A: Use any script to automate fixing broken links +- Q:When I completely re-worked my config some two years ago, I also + tried out some of these packages for making notes in Emacs. But none + of them actually fit my purpose because **I do not like the idea of + splitting up my ideas**. I am writing prose, I collect material, + reading lists and so on in **just one big file** everything fits in. + In this notebook.org file I do archiving from time to time in a + monthly basis, and I search these files in Finder on macOS to find + older notes I would like to go back to. So, if I write a paper, + it's basically an extract from my old notes that only have one + structure, viz. when I took them. **Time structures my thought, and + my notes.** But they would get lost if I split them up in a + network-like structure like a wiki, or even a zettelkasten. My 2 ct. + BTW, I work on legal and sociological topics. I'm a lawyer by + training. + - A:Cool! Happy for you :) See Twyla Tharpe. +- Q:How Zettelkasten is useful for highly mathematical STEM academic + fields like computer science or engineering fields? Like when + studying a STEM field, what should we make notes of? The important + bits are interconnected in a heirarchy, usually chapters of a book (1 -> 2 + -> 3). Main points are usually dense, highly context-dependent + sentences. One feels like he is copying information to another box. + It's usually not possible to reword scietific results in ones own + words. + - A: (probably by oliver epper!! )Zettelkasten is great for + Mathematics and incredible for CS. With org-babel you can have + living source code that you can execute from the note. + (Zettelkasten using denote, using org is the link here). You can + even use Agda if you want to have living proofs in your note. + Even inline LaTeX is an option for beautiful commutative + diagrams or math terms. Quote the sentence as is and add ...? + - A: foundational knowledge is important for tests mostly; and + eventually becomes your inventory of skills (you can do X proofs + from the top of your head). Copy box: fridge me + - see appendix A below: local link in supply chain of + knowledge + - engagement doing the work of not copying, but rephrasing, + organizing, but sometimes also retyping alone + +- Q: In your experience, would you say that you re-use most of your + notes? Watching your demo, I though that more notes your create, + less you might re-use them... Thanks for sharing! + - A: No, that'd be impossible. I have 11k notes. "Most" would + be 50%, 5500 of them. I can't use that many things most of the + time, it's impossible. Focuses shift, and I go from one + department to another, metaphorically, as the hours, days, weeks + pass. + +- 2:09 PM EST Q: How are notes structured and accessed when the notes + grow from 10K to 100K notes. + - A: Like a fractal; self-similar structures + +- 2:13 PM EST Q: Not a Question but I would be very interested in your + thought on this video by Westenberg :- + [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjSWwmg-JRM](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CjSWwmg-JRM) + , Why I Deleted My Second Brain: A Journey Back to Real Thinking + - A: dunno, probably a lot of collection, not a lot of thinking in + the ZK to some purpose that worked...? Usually, posts/videos + like this conflate note taking as a dumping ground for 'stuff' + with something that is valuable in the long term. + +- Q: Is there a danger that with a Zettlekasten-process, that the + process gets a bit in the way of the content? + - A: STrive for speed of thought tools, not e.g. typewriter. THEN: + reduce ritual and ceremony. + +- Q: How do you navigate looking at all posts with certain tags (this + might be in emacs already; new to emacs ;)) + - A:I don't; tags are just a way to loosely group notes (and + stuff in general) so that you can find potentially relevant + pieces of information more quickly. To navigate, use links. + Create nativigational aids. +- Q: I thought denote uses md files + - I think it can use either markdown or org. + - denote is agnostic to the format + - and I already use org-roam but this makes me think I may want to switch. + - denote is more minimal + - Denote is simpler + - Org-roam feels more hackable for me + - org-roam tries to implement Roam Research + - I'm just used to org-roam since years + - after some research I went with org-roam just beacuse it handles org files. boy if I knew that back then + - I have a lot of stuff that depends on org-roam, because it does more than just the zettelkasten. It is more of a database structure. +- His slides are very aesthetic. +- all these speakers need to provide there emacs ui setup in emacsconf + repo + - it was a compliment, all of them have eye-candy emacs +- How did I not know the guy who runs zettelkasten.de was an Emacs + user. (It makes total sense, but I didn't know until now.) + - oh wow, is that a video editing thing or an Emacs thing? + - the video-editing is really great +- So meta! Loved seeing how they turned a zettelkasten into a talk. +- Very, very interesting talk! +- I'm going to have to rewatch this one a couple times. There's so + much good stuff here. I don't know if the Zettelkasten idea has + every fully "clicked" for me, but I think this is the closest + I've been to "getting it" +- (add-hook 'org-mode-hook #'visual-line-mode) +- oh yeah I have started to download the webpages I refer to + - I use wget manually though. +- I have tried zettelkasten through org-roam before. it felt too overwhelming, so I just do "bunch of org files in a directory" now + - I think everyone has to find their own style. + - org-roam can feel confusing in the beginning, I do get that + - I feel like it is okay to just do what you feel suits you and slowly improve your flow + - I am very addicted to it at this point, but I understand this + - it doesn't have to use the hottest thing in the market + - I don't do second brain thing now, I just write whenever I want to + - I use org capture to maintain a journal and separate org files later. + - I always start with writing and link things after I have a first draft of a file + - I can confirm that 2k notes need to be very well organized to not get lost. Once you get to the point where your notes grow too fast, you really need a very good structure +- it is an org file? + - it looks like an org file. He just doesn't use headings that much. +- I'm going to have to rewatch this one a couple times. There's so much good stuff here. I don't know if the Zettelkasten idea has every fully "clicked" for me, but I think this is the closest I've been to "getting it" 🙂 +- Excellent talk (slides and presentation itself). 👏 +- agreed, it's going to require several listens! +- easily one of the best talks during emacsconf +- Thanks for the talk! +- lol, 'so is wearing underwear' + - Amazing parallelisms +- "so is brushing your teeth everyday" +- Q: does christian make videos too + - I have seen them somewhere +- the point of zettelkasten is to see varying differences between various notes and make interesting connections. so the only 'cage' is to just write notes, the creativity will happen when you see the interesting connections. + - as luhmann put it: "without noticing differences, one cannot think" +- so far this talk has been very good +- off topic, but I really dig there overall room aesthetics +- https://github.com/yibie/org-supertag + - it's by the emacs-china guy + - though I don't like the ai integration in there + + + + +Appendix A: +# 202402121625 Zettelkasten can be the fridge-like buffer of knowledge +#zettelkasten + +Any local knowledge database serves as a **buffer** between all +available information sources on the internet and actual problems that +have been solved. + +> [T]here's no "local link" in this supply chain that we've +developed. Google is the closest link, meaning we use the massive, +unsorted network that is the Internet and Google's interpretation of our +problem as our "second brain".[#20240212ds][] + +A Zettelkasten, as a trusted system[[201304061037]] for information +retrieval, becomes the first line of defense when looking for a +solution: + + Problem → Zettelkasten → Google + +As Aseem Thakar points out, we don't go foraging in the woods whenever +we get hungry, but instead go to the fridge in our apartment, then head +to the supermarket if we don't find anything there, then maybe check +out farms if the market is empty.[#20240212ds][] Defaulting to web +search for a solution and never building up a local storage buffer of +answers to our problems would be similar. + +[#20240212ds]: Aseem Thakar: "How to build a second brain as a +software developer", 2021-09-26, +<[https://aseemthakar.com/how-to-build-a-second-brain-as-a-software-developer/](https://aseemthakar.com/how-to-build-a-second-brain-as-a-software-developer/)> + + + + + [[!inline pages="internal(2025/info/zettelkasten-after)" raw="yes"]] [[!inline pages="internal(2025/info/zettelkasten-nav)" raw="yes"]] |