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diff --git a/2024/talks/mcclim.md b/2024/talks/mcclim.md new file mode 100644 index 00000000..0f64f1bd --- /dev/null +++ b/2024/talks/mcclim.md @@ -0,0 +1,195 @@ +[[!meta title="Elisp and McCLIM"]] +[[!meta copyright="Copyright © 2024 screwlisp"]] +[[!inline pages="internal(2024/info/mcclim-nav)" raw="yes"]] + +<!-- Initially generated with emacsconf-publish-talk-page and then left alone for manual editing --> +<!-- You can manually edit this file to update the abstract, add links, etc. ---> + + +# Elisp and McCLIM +he or e/em/eir (Spivak, male and neuter pronouns are fine) - IRC: screwlisp, Mastodon: @screwtape@mastodon.sdf.org liberachat: screwlisp MOO: lambda.moo.mud.org Name: screwtape Moo mail preferred + +[[!inline pages="internal(2024/info/mcclim-before)" raw="yes"]] + +The gist is demoing using McCLIM common lisp interface manager +implementation to make Sandewall 1978's lisp iconic example +scheduler app, but to drive it to and from emacs lisp via slime +and swank. + +To start with, a beginner walkthrough on getting slime and +common lisp and mcclim, and configuring and using them with +emacs org-mode. + +The default clim application-frame is made and its interactor +used. + +A CLIM command is then defined to refer the default describe to +emacs lisp rather than the inferior lisp. + +CLIM useage with no gui via slime / org-mode is demoed. + +This is then used via emacs lisp. + +CLIM's accepting-values is used to generate an anonymous gui +that accepts a value **into elisp**. + +A small final discussion on integrating the clim scheduler back +and forth into org-agenda. + +Bib: + +``` + @article{sandewall1978programming, + title={Programming in an Interactive Environment: + the``Lisp''Experience}, + author={Sandewall, Erik}, + journal={ACM Computing Surveys (CSUR)}, + volume={10}, + number={1}, + pages={35--71}, + year={1978}, + publisher={ACM New York, NY, USA} + } + + @inproceedings{strandh2002free, + title={A free implementation of clim}, + author={Strandh, Robert and Moore, Timothy}, + booktitle={International Lisp Conference Proceedings}, + year={2002} + } + + @article{fruhwirth2006guided, + title={A Guided Tour of CLIM, Common Lisp Interface Manager}, + author={Fruhwirth, Clemens}, + journal={Lisp Pointers}, + year={2006} + } + + @article{kochmanskimcclim, + title={McCLIM Demonstration}, + author={Kochmanski, Daniel} + } + + @inproceedings{kochmanski2020ecl, + title={On ECL, the Embeddable Common Lisp (ELS keynote).}, + author={Kochmanski, Daniel}, + booktitle={ELS}, + year={2020} + } + + @misc{beane2012quicklisp, + title={Quicklisp}, + author={Beane, Zach}, + year={2012} + } + + @misc{marsden2003slime, + title={SLIME: The superior lisp interaction mode for emacs}, + author={Marsden, Eric and Gorrie, Luke and Eller, Helmut and others}, + year={2003}, + publisher={URL: https://common-lisp. net/project/slime/(visited on + 05/19/2017)} + } + + @article{dominik2004org, + title={Org mode manual}, + author={Dominik, Carsten}, + year={2004} + } +``` + +**Q&A in LambdaMOO**: + +As an experiment, screwlisp will also be taking +questions from LambdaMOO. Here's how to join: + +1. Use `M-x telnet` to connect to `lambda.moo.mud.org 8888`. Alternatively, you can use a web-based client like https://mudslinger.net/play/ or rmoo.el (see rmoo.el note below) +2. `connect Guest` to connect as a guest. If that doesn't work, please ask in `#emacsconf-org` and we'll try to get you sorted out. +3. Agree to the terms by typing `YES`. +4. Teleport to where the speaker is by typing `@join screwtape`. + +To say something, start with `"` and omit the ending quotation mark, like this: `"Hello everyone!`. To say something to a specific person, start with a backtick (`` ` ``) and the person's nick, then your message, like this: `` `sachac I made it to LambdaMOO``. Use `help communication` to learn more about other communication tools, such as `:` for emoting and `whisper` for sending private messages. + +rmoo.el note: You may need to define process-kill-without-query if it doesn't exist on your computer. Here's a use-package declaration that might be a good starting point. If your version of use-package doesn't support `:vc` yet, you can check out the code from https://github.com/toddsundsted/rmoo and add it to your load-path, or use `M-x telnet` for now. + +``` +(use-package rmoo + :vc "https://github.com/toddsundsted/rmoo" + :init + (unless (fboundp 'process-kill-without-query) + (defun process-kill-without-query (process &optional flag) + (set-process-query-on-exit-flag process nil) + t)) + :config + (rmoo-worlds-add-new-moo "LambdaMOO" "lambda.moo.mud.org" "8888")) +``` + +You can also ask questions via BigBlueButton, Etherpad, or IRC, and the host will try to make sure your question gets to the speaker. Enjoy! + +About the speaker: + +I'm screwlisp from the lispy gopher climate, a weekly Wednesday +000UTC podcast (non-radio show) on aNONradio.net powered by sdf.org; +(also the lesser-known Friday 1400UTC show, Zhen House Zhen Bonkwave. + +We are fortunate to have many great people in our live chat that +happens in LambdaMOO during the shows. Last week, we shared Rog's +new writing on his current personal emacs modes with his decades +of emacs useage. (Roger Crew). That's not what this talk is about +though, though we often deal with emacs and McCLIM, which **are** what +this talk is about. I have many friends who picked those up in some +small part thanks to the show. + + +# Discussion + +- Q: I would love to see the GUI interacting with the scheduling stuff + you were working on initially, if I didn't miss it somewhere + earlier. + - A: Will do a follow-up video +- Q:Or any other GUI stuff you've worked on in the past that you'd + be comfortable showing? + - A:[https://toobnix.org/a/screwtape/video-channels](https://toobnix.org/a/screwtape/video-channels) +- Q: Are we going to get a McCLIM LambdaMOO client? + - A: You're right, I should make that into a client for Common Lisp. +- Q: is the expression being returned directly eval-able is elisp / ielm? + - screwlisp: Yes I didn't think this ahead + - screwlisp: Like I've just said, you have to call (slime-eval-sync) + - screwlisp: After which you can get it out of your kill-ring, because it has syncronised -> to be there + - screwlisp: I was going to ask you if you had a way for me to do that +- Q: i wonder if there's a presentation type for readable output that is returned to elisp? + - most of the time i assume the expression type will be readable on the other end, but CL has readtables and other things that would need translation +- similar to the multiple package-archive options with emacs there is also UltraLisp which tracks upstream more closely, but can cause fun-to-debug package conflicts in some situations + - screwlisp: I guess I should try that, basically melpa right, I occasionally use person quicklisp dists +- screwlisp: 40ants has often done things I want to do +- lol @ either it will be faster or you will be smug about it running slowly + - screwlisp: Old computer challenge ;) +- we did see a little bit of that +- https://toobnix.org/c/screwtape_channel/videos +- Is the MOO McCLIM app still going? + - yes + - telnet lambda.moo.mud.org 8888, connect Guest, Y, then @join screwtape + - maybe something like this would work for slime eval assuming we still want to use emacs while CLIM window is open: (slime-eval-async '(cl:+ 2 2) (lambda (x) (print x))) + - the second arg is a continuation so can bind it, insert in a buffer, etc + - I think most emacs users use scratch buffer +- thanks for the talk! great intro. look forward to IELM talk next :P +- Thank you! 😊 +- Thanks for the talk, it was super interesting +- May the source be with everyone +- I use ielm as a repl but not a power user... sometimes I know I want to do more than a few M-: +- (lazy-eval 'thanks) +- screwlisp: "Yeah, I forgot now but during the talk there were a few tiny bits where it was different to slime that tripped me up +- thanks for the talk screwlisp, always good to see lisp history being explored. i'll have to check out lambdamoo again +- screwlisp: Quite a few people hang around during the Wednesday show (000UTC, anonradio.net) +- screwlisp: Probably not a coincidence a lot of my emacs useage is the same as yduJ's who is normally there +- what emacs mode/tool were you using to access the moo? + - I dusted off rmoo.el, but it could definitely use some modernization =) + - I went for the quick M-x telnet instructions for Guest +- screwlisp: Can @request your nick with an email address + + +[[!inline pages="internal(2024/info/mcclim-after)" raw="yes"]] + +[[!inline pages="internal(2024/info/mcclim-nav)" raw="yes"]] + + |