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diff --git a/2023/info/core-after.md b/2023/info/core-after.md new file mode 100644 index 00000000..13fa508a --- /dev/null +++ b/2023/info/core-after.md @@ -0,0 +1,1565 @@ +<!-- Automatically generated by emacsconf-publish-after-page --> + + +<a name="core-mainVideo-transcript"></a> +# Transcript (unedited) + +[[!template text="""All right. Hi again, everyone.""" start="00:00:02.540" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""It's been a while. Well,""" start="00:00:03.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""actually, it's been like 2 minutes tops.""" start="00:00:04.839" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""We were just with John Wheatley,""" start="00:00:07.819" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and now we are with Stefan Krangas.""" start="00:00:09.099" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Hi. Hi. So as we said before,""" start="00:00:11.120" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Stefan is co-maintainer now of Is it the""" start="00:00:16.160" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""entire Emacs project? How do you describe""" start="00:00:20.600" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""this? Yeah, co-maintainer of GNU Emacs.""" start="00:00:22.920" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Right, perfect. So you know what?""" start="00:00:27.439" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Because I'm sure everyone is dying to hear""" start="00:00:29.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""everything you've got to say in your""" start="00:00:32.420" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""presentation I'm just going to shut up now""" start="00:00:33.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and leave the floor to you.""" start="00:00:36.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Do you need to share your screen or anything?""" start="00:00:37.640" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""No. Okay great well I'll just cut my webcam""" start="00:00:40.080" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""off I'll still be in the background so do not""" start="00:00:45.239" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""hesitate if you've got any problem I'm still""" start="00:00:47.059" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""around And I'll see you just beacon whenever""" start="00:00:48.940" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you're done. And I'll show up with the""" start="00:00:52.560" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""questions. All right? Thank you,""" start="00:00:53.940" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Leo. And thank you, everyone,""" start="00:00:56.120" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""for being here. I'm Stefan Kangas.""" start="00:00:58.739" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So as Leo explained, I am recently appointed""" start="00:01:02.739" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""as a co-maintainer of GNU Emacs,""" start="00:01:06.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""which a role that I'm fulfilling currently""" start="00:01:10.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""with Eli Sretsky, who's been co-maintainer""" start="00:01:13.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""for quite some time. So I got the question to""" start="00:01:18.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""be a co-maintainer from Richard in August""" start="00:01:23.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""this year. And of course,""" start="00:01:26.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""when you get a question like that,""" start="00:01:29.600" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I couldn't not say yes.""" start="00:01:31.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So here we are. I can't tell you how excited""" start="00:01:34.360" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I am to have this opportunity to address the""" start="00:01:39.920" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""community in this way.""" start="00:01:45.060" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I'm really humbled, of course,""" start="00:01:47.640" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""to be part of it, and to be able to serve the""" start="00:01:50.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""community in this capacity.""" start="00:01:55.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I've used Emacs, I think many of you might""" start="00:02:00.080" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""also have used Emacs for quite some time,""" start="00:02:04.080" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""but I'm going on 2 decades as an Emacs user.""" start="00:02:06.820" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""My involvement in Emacs Lisp development is,""" start="00:02:11.120" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I mean, almost as long,""" start="00:02:14.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""but my core development goes back only 4,""" start="00:02:16.660" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""5 years. I have to also thank the EmacsConf""" start="00:02:19.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""organizers who are doing,""" start="00:02:27.180" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think, a tremendous job and have done a""" start="00:02:29.100" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""tremendous job over the years in really""" start="00:02:31.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""building and strengthening what I think is""" start="00:02:34.820" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""this fantastic community of users and""" start="00:02:38.300" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""developers and people interested in Emacs.""" start="00:02:42.180" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I actually had the chance to meet up with Eli""" start="00:02:46.620" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Sretzky, as well as another Emacs hacker,""" start="00:02:50.100" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Andrea Corallo, when I was at the GNU""" start="00:02:53.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""project's 40 years celebration,""" start="00:02:57.980" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""40 years since the GNU project was announced.""" start="00:03:00.800" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And it was very inspiring in general to meet""" start="00:03:05.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""people. And I think EmacsConf should also,""" start="00:03:09.660" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think, serve to inspire and sort of help""" start="00:03:12.980" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""bring something to the type of work that many""" start="00:03:19.020" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""of us are doing to improve Emacs,""" start="00:03:22.120" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""whether it's in package development or in""" start="00:03:24.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""core, to bring out the new and exciting ideas""" start="00:03:26.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and get people enthusiastic about Emacs,""" start="00:03:29.800" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""about hacking on Emacs.""" start="00:03:34.080" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""This is my little attempt to contribute with""" start="00:03:38.560" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""let's say 2 things. I will first try to""" start="00:03:45.600" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""present how we do Emacs core development and""" start="00:03:49.600" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""why we've done some of the choices that we""" start="00:03:54.400" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""have, because We have seen at times that""" start="00:03:58.360" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""perhaps people aren't always clear on this or""" start="00:04:02.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that aspect. So maybe this will be""" start="00:04:06.500" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""enlightening. I will also try to present some""" start="00:04:08.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""kind of vision for what Emacs could be with""" start="00:04:12.260" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""your help. Emacs is already very good,""" start="00:04:18.060" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""as we all know, but we could be even better.""" start="00:04:21.820" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""That's the reality of any type of software""" start="00:04:27.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""development. So the overall idea of this talk""" start="00:04:30.060" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""is to tell you, if you're an Emacs list""" start="00:04:35.220" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""package developer today,""" start="00:04:38.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""why you should become an Emacs core""" start="00:04:40.760" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""developer, and the sort of steps that you""" start="00:04:44.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""might want to take to do that,""" start="00:04:47.300" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""or how you can help Emacs core development.""" start="00:04:49.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Even if you're just a user and you found a""" start="00:04:52.120" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""bug, report it. Perhaps you have a feature""" start="00:04:54.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""request that you'd like to discuss.""" start="00:04:57.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think we need more interaction in general""" start="00:04:58.820" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""between Emacs core developers,""" start="00:05:02.900" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""typically on emacsdevil.gnu.org,""" start="00:05:05.080" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""the mailing list that we use to coordinate""" start="00:05:08.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""our development efforts,""" start="00:05:12.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""between Emacs devil package developers and""" start="00:05:15.860" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""users, Because there is so much great stuff""" start="00:05:19.520" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""really going on in the community.""" start="00:05:22.500" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""But I think sometimes the step to core""" start="00:05:25.520" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""development seems big and perhaps even a""" start="00:05:28.740" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""little bit scary. So I'm hoping to be able to""" start="00:05:32.500" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""help bridge that gap, even if just a little""" start="00:05:35.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""bit. We need more people contributing to""" start="00:05:38.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Emacs itself. And also a small disclaimer""" start="00:05:43.000" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""here, in this talk I will only be able to""" start="00:05:46.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""speak for myself, not for GNU or the Emacs""" start="00:05:49.920" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""project, even if it's like a little bit more""" start="00:05:53.760" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""official, but I will also try to give the""" start="00:05:56.500" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""view of the project where it makes sense to""" start="00:05:58.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""do so. Keep in mind, I'm only 1 of the""" start="00:06:01.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""maintainers, the co-maintainer together with""" start="00:06:04.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Eli, and I can't just make decisions""" start="00:06:06.820" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""arbitrarily. In a sense,""" start="00:06:09.880" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I'm as a co-maintainer and trusted as a""" start="00:06:11.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""steward and trusted by,""" start="00:06:14.180" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""of course, the GNU project,""" start="00:06:15.420" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""but also by the community That we really""" start="00:06:16.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""can't just take decisions,""" start="00:06:22.580" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think, arbitrarily. Even if it sometimes""" start="00:06:24.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""perhaps may seem so, or it may feel that way,""" start="00:06:27.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""we really have to realize that we can't just""" start="00:06:31.100" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""push too much of just a personal agenda to""" start="00:06:35.080" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""the extent that it doesn't line up with what""" start="00:06:39.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""is best for eMacs going forward,""" start="00:06:41.520" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and the more overall picture of that.""" start="00:06:47.500" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So there are limitations that come with the""" start="00:06:50.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""job, if you like. So 1 question I often,""" start="00:06:52.640" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I actually got this week when I started a new""" start="00:07:00.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""assignment at work, and I got the question""" start="00:07:02.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""when I said I'm involved in Emacs""" start="00:07:06.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""development. And then someone asked,""" start="00:07:08.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""oh, is Emacs still developed?""" start="00:07:10.400" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Isn't it done almost? And I answered to that,""" start="00:07:12.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""yes, we are still around.""" start="00:07:16.400" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""We're going on 40 years now as a software""" start="00:07:17.880" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""project. Not many projects actually can claim""" start="00:07:21.940" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that type of longevity.""" start="00:07:26.120" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""But Emacs is among those few that can.""" start="00:07:29.540" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And of course, we have had some very exciting""" start="00:07:33.900" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""developments in recent versions.""" start="00:07:36.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think John just gave you an update on that.""" start="00:07:38.000" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""But we had just some highlights out of many""" start="00:07:41.980" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""highlights that you could give,""" start="00:07:46.160" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""really, we got the TreeSetter support in""" start="00:07:48.580" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Emacs 29 that we now need to sort of extend""" start="00:07:50.920" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and develop. We have merged EGLOT,""" start="00:07:54.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""so we have LSP support out of the box,""" start="00:07:56.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think is a huge improvement.""" start="00:07:59.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Native compilation, of course,""" start="00:08:01.400" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""a big feature. I mean,""" start="00:08:02.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that was Andrea's job,""" start="00:08:06.580" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""really, for performance.""" start="00:08:08.900" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And it turns out that in many types of""" start="00:08:11.460" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""workloads and the types of stuff that people""" start="00:08:14.020" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""are doing, it often matters.""" start="00:08:15.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And we're hoping to make that the default,""" start="00:08:18.080" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""perhaps already in Emacs 30.""" start="00:08:21.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So there are things that are happening that""" start="00:08:24.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""fundamentally make Emacs better at a very""" start="00:08:26.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""core level. So, of course,""" start="00:08:32.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""why wouldn't you want to be involved in such""" start="00:08:37.360" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""an exciting and, I think,""" start="00:08:41.679" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""dynamic project? How is Emacs developed?""" start="00:08:43.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Well, this is, I think,""" start="00:08:51.660" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""perhaps to some people,""" start="00:08:53.000" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""a little bit more of a threshold,""" start="00:08:54.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""if you like, because I think all of us know""" start="00:08:56.520" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""really that there is exciting and cool stuff""" start="00:08:59.100" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that is going on in Emacs and has been going""" start="00:09:02.980" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""on over the last couple of years and we'll""" start="00:09:06.560" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""see even more of that,""" start="00:09:08.260" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think, going forward.""" start="00:09:10.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""1 thing is that communication still takes""" start="00:09:12.600" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""place over a mailing list in 2023.""" start="00:09:16.580" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So we have emacsdevil at gnu.org,""" start="00:09:21.240" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and that's where we develop Emacs.""" start="00:09:24.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""We use, we send patches back and forth,""" start="00:09:26.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""we comment on patches.""" start="00:09:30.140" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And actually this workflow is very good,""" start="00:09:32.700" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""if you're used to it. Because guess what?""" start="00:09:36.700" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""As Emacs users, we like doing everything we""" start="00:09:39.580" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""can in Emacs, especially the core tasks that""" start="00:09:42.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""we're doing, such as developing Emacs itself.""" start="00:09:45.220" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Of course, you want to do that fully within""" start="00:09:50.140" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Emacs. So we hack Emacs Lisp in Emacs,""" start="00:09:52.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""we hack C in Emacs, we respond to emails also""" start="00:09:55.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""from Emacs, respond to bug reports,""" start="00:10:00.240" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""manage bug reports. We do all that stuff""" start="00:10:02.700" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""very, very smoothly. And it doesn't really""" start="00:10:05.460" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""matter in a sense, what is the medium?""" start="00:10:07.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""It happens to be email.""" start="00:10:10.560" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Technically it could be anything,""" start="00:10:12.180" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""but email really has that type of staying""" start="00:10:14.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""power where we've been able to use it for a""" start="00:10:16.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""long time. And this is how,""" start="00:10:19.640" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and we're still able to use it.""" start="00:10:22.360" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And this is how free software was always""" start="00:10:24.000" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""developed in the past.""" start="00:10:25.800" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Only in the last, let's say 10,""" start="00:10:26.640" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""15 years, We've had more development taking""" start="00:10:28.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""place perhaps on forges like GitHub,""" start="00:10:32.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""GitLab, whatever. But we are 1 of the""" start="00:10:35.580" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""holdouts. I mean, there are others,""" start="00:10:39.160" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""of course, like the Linux kernel has mailing""" start="00:10:40.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""lists. They're not trying to do that scale""" start="00:10:42.560" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""development on GitHub.""" start="00:10:44.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And this is not just because we're Luddites""" start="00:10:49.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that refuse to change.""" start="00:10:51.760" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""We just have to do it in the old way,""" start="00:10:53.560" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""because it is the old way,""" start="00:10:55.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and that's the way it should be.""" start="00:10:57.120" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""No, it's actually because we,""" start="00:10:58.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""as core developers, the core development team""" start="00:11:01.220" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and the people already involved and doing""" start="00:11:03.460" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""tremendous, I mean large amounts of work in""" start="00:11:05.460" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Emacs has very efficient workflows built up""" start="00:11:08.560" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""based on this. So of course,""" start="00:11:12.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I mean moving to something else is something""" start="00:11:15.620" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that we might like to do,""" start="00:11:18.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""but we're not yet clear on how to do it""" start="00:11:20.580" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""exactly and what to move to.""" start="00:11:24.400" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So these are the types of discussions that""" start="00:11:26.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""we're looking at. Can we still support a""" start="00:11:28.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""mailing, an email type workflow while moving""" start="00:11:30.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""to something else? That would be 1 of the big""" start="00:11:34.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""ones. I think another thing that trips people""" start="00:11:36.100" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""up is that we used a bug tracker that,""" start="00:11:38.400" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I mean, maybe some people,""" start="00:11:40.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I've heard people say it's archaic.""" start="00:11:42.620" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""It's called Debugs. I think maybe Debugs gets""" start="00:11:47.020" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""a bit of a bad rap. I think that bugs is a""" start="00:11:49.900" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""good piece of software.""" start="00:11:52.000" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""It wasn't developed in 2023.""" start="00:11:53.520" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I mean, that's much as clear.""" start="00:11:55.580" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""It's a little bit older,""" start="00:11:57.660" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""but it really is a workhorse of the Debian""" start="00:11:59.060" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""project, which is obviously a project that's""" start="00:12:01.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""developed in a very different way than Emacs""" start="00:12:03.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""is. It's on a completely different scale,""" start="00:12:09.400" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""of course, much bigger,""" start="00:12:11.880" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""many more developers, and so on.""" start="00:12:12.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""But I think the developers did a good job for""" start="00:12:15.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""the time. But it might be showing its age,""" start="00:12:17.800" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""perhaps, in places. Perhaps,""" start="00:12:20.920" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""again, it's the email workflow.""" start="00:12:23.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And people see that as a little bit of a""" start="00:12:25.260" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""threshold. It seems alien.""" start="00:12:27.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""It's a little bit strange,""" start="00:12:30.180" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""the types of workflows that you have there.""" start="00:12:32.220" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So we are seeing some limitations with that""" start="00:12:35.220" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""box. And again, how do you report bugs?""" start="00:12:38.860" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Well, in a sense, it's easy.""" start="00:12:41.020" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""You send an email to bug-gnu-emacs at gnu.org""" start="00:12:42.600" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and you copy in whatever you get from,""" start="00:12:47.620" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you know, report the EMAX bug or if you have,""" start="00:12:51.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you know, send mail set up locally,""" start="00:12:53.300" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""just hit control C, control C and it's sent""" start="00:12:55.580" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""to the bug tracker and that's fine.""" start="00:12:58.700" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""But also I have to mention that there is this""" start="00:13:03.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""very good package on GNU Elpas.""" start="00:13:08.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""If you're ever trying to read the Emacs bug""" start="00:13:10.600" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""tracker or following along in Emacs""" start="00:13:13.540" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""development, I really recommend install the""" start="00:13:16.500" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""package devbugs from GNU Elpa.""" start="00:13:19.000" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""It's so good. And again,""" start="00:13:22.120" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""it's built on GNU, it's all integrated in""" start="00:13:24.140" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Emacs, it's so much better than using the web""" start="00:13:26.580" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and so on. And if you really want to get into""" start="00:13:30.660" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""it, you can download the bug tracker archives""" start="00:13:33.220" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and the mailing list archives,""" start="00:13:38.140" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and you can put them locally,""" start="00:13:39.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you can have them searchable,""" start="00:13:41.260" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and you can have whatever experience you""" start="00:13:42.740" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""like. So, I mean, it's really a flexible""" start="00:13:44.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""workflow, but it's a bit strange,""" start="00:13:48.240" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""perhaps, to some people.""" start="00:13:51.260" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So we also think supporting only this""" start="00:13:53.460" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""workflow might be a little bit too limiting.""" start="00:13:58.120" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So we do want to move over to something like""" start="00:14:00.660" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""GitLab, perhaps Sourcehat or something""" start="00:14:04.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""similar. We've had a couple of discussions""" start="00:14:06.760" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""about that over the last couple of years.""" start="00:14:10.760" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think even before that,""" start="00:14:14.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""but that's how far back I've been involved,""" start="00:14:15.820" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and definitely it's come up occasionally.""" start="00:14:18.940" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think we are less far away than perhaps""" start="00:14:23.100" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""ever is how I would express that,""" start="00:14:27.940" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and in the sense that the remaining blockers""" start="00:14:30.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""for just making the shift,""" start="00:14:36.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""let's say, are I think,""" start="00:14:38.640" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I mean, first of all, we're talking about""" start="00:14:40.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""limitations, perhaps in the software,""" start="00:14:42.120" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""they're well defined, and they're not as""" start="00:14:44.020" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""amountable. I don't think they have to be in""" start="00:14:46.420" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""any case. We should be able to make some""" start="00:14:49.060" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""progress. The main thing that we're lacking""" start="00:14:50.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""now is not more discussion or more people""" start="00:14:54.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""prodding us to just please switch over.""" start="00:15:00.800" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""No, we're looking for volunteers.""" start="00:15:03.120" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""If you think that you,""" start="00:15:05.980" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you know, have what it takes to sort of come""" start="00:15:08.400" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""in and help us do something like that and""" start="00:15:10.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""work together with us,""" start="00:15:14.060" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you know, to see what can be done,""" start="00:15:15.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""perhaps some, a few things would need to be""" start="00:15:16.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""changed in GitLab. I don't think anything""" start="00:15:20.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""huge, but maybe there are some patches to be""" start="00:15:23.220" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""written and sent upstream,""" start="00:15:26.120" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""or maybe we need to do some local hacks or""" start="00:15:27.980" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""whatever. If you wanna do that,""" start="00:15:30.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""please contact us, emacsdevil.""" start="00:15:33.140" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""We'll be very happy to talk to you.""" start="00:15:35.460" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And then we can start making progress.""" start="00:15:38.940" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So I'm really hoping that that sound like""" start="00:15:40.520" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""will come into place. But we need to,""" start="00:15:42.740" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""if we do switch over, we need to preserve the""" start="00:15:46.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""good parts of our email-based workflows.""" start="00:15:52.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So there are requirements there so that we""" start="00:15:54.820" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""can continue to do our job as maintainers,""" start="00:15:57.140" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""if you like. Another thing is that we've""" start="00:16:01.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""sometimes seen that there's a bit of a""" start="00:16:04.900" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""different culture perhaps on mailing lists""" start="00:16:08.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and on Emacs devil than what many people are""" start="00:16:11.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""used to, especially like you've used perhaps,""" start="00:16:15.060" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""many people might be in university and""" start="00:16:17.800" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""they've started using Emacs,""" start="00:16:20.540" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""maybe got into a little bit of package""" start="00:16:23.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""development and starting to get the ropes of""" start="00:16:25.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that and are very used to working on places""" start="00:16:29.060" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""like GitLab or something like that,""" start="00:16:32.560" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""then the type of culture and way of""" start="00:16:35.460" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""communicating that we use in Emacs might be a""" start="00:16:38.000" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""little bit different. And of course,""" start="00:16:42.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""it's different in the sense that mailing""" start="00:16:44.540" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""lists have always, I mean,""" start="00:16:47.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""let's say hacker culture,""" start="00:16:49.900" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""whatever you want to call it,""" start="00:16:51.060" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""have always communicated in a particular way""" start="00:16:52.120" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""using mailing lists. So it's like succinct to""" start="00:16:54.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""the point, perhaps I'm skipping a few""" start="00:16:58.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""pleasantries. And the idea is that you should""" start="00:17:00.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""just use it in as effective way as possible,""" start="00:17:03.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""so that also the archives are usable.""" start="00:17:08.359" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And the other thing is that generally people""" start="00:17:11.319" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""involved in developing free software has to""" start="00:17:13.660" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""deal with a lot of incoming traffic,""" start="00:17:16.500" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""emails. They don't have the bandwidth if it's""" start="00:17:19.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""too much noise. You really need to be strict""" start="00:17:25.900" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""to keep the signal to noise ratio high.""" start="00:17:28.220" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""We have some weird terminology on the Emacs""" start="00:17:31.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""devil. People tell us,""" start="00:17:35.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""we say sometimes install patches which""" start="00:17:38.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""basically means push to master or merge pull""" start="00:17:40.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""requests because we've used other version""" start="00:17:44.180" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""control systems in the past where it might""" start="00:17:46.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""have made more sense to say install patches.""" start="00:17:48.600" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And then you sort of, I don't know,""" start="00:17:51.000" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I say it. Don't ask me why.""" start="00:17:52.540" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""But it feels natural after a while.""" start="00:17:54.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""You install a patch. It's clear what you""" start="00:17:56.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""mean. You don't have to worry about which""" start="00:17:57.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""branch it's on. So it's a little bit""" start="00:18:02.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""historical there. So there is some of that""" start="00:18:06.600" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""culture going on. It might be different.""" start="00:18:10.120" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""We don't use emojis that much.""" start="00:18:11.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""That's another thing. There is no like,""" start="00:18:14.220" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you can click the little like button at the""" start="00:18:16.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""bottom of a comment or an email as you could""" start="00:18:20.900" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""on GitHub. But there are exceptions and it's""" start="00:18:25.080" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""not like someone will send you angry emails""" start="00:18:27.740" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""if you use an emoji or something like that.""" start="00:18:29.600" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""But it can come off as perhaps Because people""" start="00:18:31.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""are pressed for time also when replying to""" start="00:18:34.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""all these emails. So it might come off as a""" start="00:18:37.260" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""little bit short, but that's just how it is.""" start="00:18:39.400" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And I think We have heard this comment before""" start="00:18:43.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that mailing lists are scary or Emacs devil""" start="00:18:46.880" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""is scary or core development is scary.""" start="00:18:50.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And I've touched a few of these points a""" start="00:18:54.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""little bit already. I think,""" start="00:18:58.180" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""yeah, maybe a little bit.""" start="00:18:59.620" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""For example, we don't use emojis very short""" start="00:19:02.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""in the communication. And we always use""" start="00:19:06.820" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""correct grammar and spelling.""" start="00:19:10.940" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""We take that seriously because it's important""" start="00:19:13.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""for being clear in your written communication""" start="00:19:15.920" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""when all you have is written communication.""" start="00:19:19.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""It's really important.""" start="00:19:22.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""But it's not like If you come in there and""" start="00:19:26.760" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you don't know all these cultural rules and""" start="00:19:31.400" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""all these patterns, then you know you will We""" start="00:19:33.580" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""won't talk to you No Actually,""" start="00:19:36.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""we try to be as welcoming as we can and and""" start="00:19:37.900" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""be mindful and you know people not Everyone""" start="00:19:41.100" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""has English as their native language,""" start="00:19:44.600" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""for example. So perhaps someone says""" start="00:19:47.080" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""something, and it might come off as rude,""" start="00:19:49.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""but maybe it's just a direct translation.""" start="00:19:51.360" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So we're trying to give a lot of whatever the""" start="00:19:53.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""native language is. So we try to give a lot""" start="00:19:56.520" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""of leeway and just be a little bit,""" start="00:19:59.760" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you know, flexible and focus on,""" start="00:20:01.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you know, the key, key points,""" start="00:20:03.580" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""which are the technical things,""" start="00:20:04.920" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""the technical decisions,""" start="00:20:06.580" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""technical arguments, rather than,""" start="00:20:07.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you know, getting bogged down in a lot of,""" start="00:20:09.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you know, personal, you know,""" start="00:20:11.920" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""discussions and flame wars.""" start="00:20:15.360" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So, I mean, there are these things to be""" start="00:20:19.300" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""aware of, you know, it's just a little bit""" start="00:20:21.260" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""different. I don't think it's anything huge.""" start="00:20:23.160" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And I wouldn't be, you know,""" start="00:20:25.080" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think it would be sad if people felt too""" start="00:20:28.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""intimidated by that. It just is what it is.""" start="00:20:30.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And if you spend some time there,""" start="00:20:32.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you'll see how people generally communicate.""" start="00:20:33.540" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Sometimes, there are a lot of people on""" start="00:20:38.400" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""EmacsDevil. It's a public mailing list.""" start="00:20:41.260" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""A lot of people just sign up to follow Emacs""" start="00:20:43.660" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""development. Sometimes they chime in.""" start="00:20:46.240" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And I think this is in general a good thing.""" start="00:20:48.940" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think it should be a public mailing list.""" start="00:20:50.820" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Sometimes this leads to weird situations from""" start="00:20:53.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""just a point of view as an Emacs maintainer,""" start="00:21:00.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""right? I mean, I try to say something and it""" start="00:21:03.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""doesn't always say, oh,""" start="00:21:07.080" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""he's the maintainer or whatever.""" start="00:21:08.240" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So when I say something,""" start="00:21:10.080" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""it should carry a little bit more weight than""" start="00:21:11.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""some unknown person from the internet who has""" start="00:21:13.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""an opinion and decided to send it to""" start="00:21:16.160" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""EmacsDevil. So it's good to be a little bit""" start="00:21:18.740" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""aware of who is a little bit more involved""" start="00:21:21.020" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""with the project. I would check out the""" start="00:21:23.160" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""maintainers file. I would check,""" start="00:21:25.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""see in the Git log, do these people actually""" start="00:21:27.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""have any anything in core?""" start="00:21:31.000" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And if not, maybe, you know,""" start="00:21:33.580" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""there, we won't really,""" start="00:21:35.860" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""even if they express an opinion very""" start="00:21:39.100" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""strongly, even if they're a little bit rude,""" start="00:21:41.000" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""maybe they're not even involved in Emacs""" start="00:21:42.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""development. I mean, often,""" start="00:21:44.760" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that's the case we have some people,""" start="00:21:46.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""unfortunately, at times,""" start="00:21:48.460" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""we have random people from the internet come""" start="00:21:50.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""in on the mailing list and they're just a""" start="00:21:52.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""little bit rude, or they say an opinion""" start="00:21:54.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that's not exactly helpful.""" start="00:21:57.740" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And I think you need to be aware.""" start="00:22:00.060" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I mean, these things happen in any forum,""" start="00:22:02.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""but it happens on EmacsDevO as well.""" start="00:22:04.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So just be a little bit aware of who you're""" start="00:22:07.800" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""talking to, what people are doing.""" start="00:22:10.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""It can help to Check the archives,""" start="00:22:13.700" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""see who writes what, and so on.""" start="00:22:16.240" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""But it's not something that I think is a huge""" start="00:22:20.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""problem. It is just, again,""" start="00:22:23.080" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""something to be aware of.""" start="00:22:24.220" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""We have the new kind of communication""" start="00:22:25.900" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""guidelines in place, which basically says""" start="00:22:28.180" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that you should be nice to people and stay""" start="00:22:30.820" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""focused on the technical problem,""" start="00:22:33.740" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""try to see things from another person's point""" start="00:22:36.060" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""of view, this kind of stuff.""" start="00:22:38.300" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So we're really trying to be as inclusive as""" start="00:22:39.360" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""possible and just stay correct in general.""" start="00:22:42.140" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And sometimes, I mean,""" start="00:22:46.820" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""not everyone, it's a public list.""" start="00:22:48.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""We moderate it, but not to a huge extent,""" start="00:22:50.060" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""right? So sometimes people get away with a""" start="00:22:52.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""little bit of perhaps stretching the""" start="00:22:57.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""boundaries of what might be included in the""" start="00:23:02.260" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""kind communication guidelines,""" start="00:23:04.700" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""sort of the fences and limitations of that.""" start="00:23:08.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""But I would just ignore that.""" start="00:23:11.460" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Sometimes it happens that we,""" start="00:23:13.940" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""as happens in any forum,""" start="00:23:15.860" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""by the way, you just, we have these very big""" start="00:23:17.160" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""threads. We start discussing something else.""" start="00:23:19.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Perhaps you send us a patch and it just""" start="00:23:21.760" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""devolves into us discussing something""" start="00:23:24.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""completely different. And of course I partake""" start="00:23:26.360" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""in that, not better than anyone else,""" start="00:23:28.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""but it just happens. I mean,""" start="00:23:30.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""it's not your fault. It's just what happens""" start="00:23:32.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""sometimes in forums, and don't mind that.""" start="00:23:34.800" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And it's a little bit easier to do that in""" start="00:23:37.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""emails, because you just change the subject,""" start="00:23:39.120" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and now it's supposed to be a different""" start="00:23:41.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""thread, but it comes as replies usually to""" start="00:23:43.580" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you, which wouldn't happen perhaps in a""" start="00:23:45.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""different workflow. So it's something to be""" start="00:23:48.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""aware of as well. Another thing is that,""" start="00:23:49.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""of course, in written communication,""" start="00:23:53.300" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""tone doesn't always come across.""" start="00:23:55.080" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""If someone sounds negative,""" start="00:23:57.980" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""sometimes it's just them being neutral.""" start="00:23:59.240" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Sometimes you get no replies.""" start="00:24:01.460" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""You send something, you get no replies.""" start="00:24:05.500" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And this could mean, actually it could mean,""" start="00:24:07.120" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""yeah, what you said was uncontroversial.""" start="00:24:09.880" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""We think it was a good idea.""" start="00:24:11.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""No 1 replied to it because either someone""" start="00:24:13.660" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""else would reply or just there was no need to""" start="00:24:16.360" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""reply because, yeah, why not?""" start="00:24:18.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So but if you do send a patch and you don't""" start="00:24:21.580" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""get an answer, wait. I mean,""" start="00:24:24.060" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""don't wait 1, 2 days. Maybe we're busy or""" start="00:24:26.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""we're sick or whatever.""" start="00:24:29.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Wait 2 weeks. It's fine to just send it""" start="00:24:30.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""again. If you send the patch to EmacsDevil,""" start="00:24:32.800" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""send it to the bug mailing list,""" start="00:24:35.660" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""because we lose track of stuff on EmacsDevil.""" start="00:24:37.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""That's just the reality of it.""" start="00:24:39.800" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So if you propose making a change and no 1""" start="00:24:43.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""commented, feel free to ask us again if a""" start="00:24:46.080" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""patch would be welcome and we will clarify.""" start="00:24:48.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Bug reports, unfortunately,""" start="00:24:53.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""if you get no answer, I mean,""" start="00:24:54.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""we do have a limited amount of time to work""" start="00:24:56.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""on bugs. If you're looking to get started in""" start="00:24:59.860" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Emacs development, this is an excellent way""" start="00:25:02.360" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""to start getting involved.""" start="00:25:05.740" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""What I'd recommend is start looking into""" start="00:25:07.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""bugs. I'd install that bug,""" start="00:25:09.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I'd see about the mailing workflow and set""" start="00:25:11.420" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that up a little bit, or not.""" start="00:25:13.860" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""It's up to you. You can reply to an email""" start="00:25:16.160" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""without setting any of that stuff up.""" start="00:25:17.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""But just help us try out your bugs,""" start="00:25:20.600" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""send patches, do that type of stuff.""" start="00:25:22.540" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I mean, that's an excellent way,""" start="00:25:24.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and extremely welcome.""" start="00:25:26.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""We're so happy to see when people pick up bug""" start="00:25:27.740" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""reports that have been left by the wayside""" start="00:25:30.360" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and just fix them, send us a patch,""" start="00:25:32.640" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and we can just apply it.""" start="00:25:36.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So that's really your starting point if you""" start="00:25:37.920" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""want to get involved in Emacs core""" start="00:25:40.360" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""development. I also want to say that be aware""" start="00:25:44.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that you know Emacs is the editor of the GNU""" start="00:25:50.580" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""operating system and this makes the project""" start="00:25:54.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""political a little bit whether you like it or""" start="00:25:56.820" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""not. Luckily the you know the politics are""" start="00:25:58.700" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""limited enough that we can find broad""" start="00:26:01.560" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""agreement on it. So we want to promote,""" start="00:26:03.400" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""we want to create free software.""" start="00:26:05.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""That's sort of it. That's it.""" start="00:26:08.860" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And there shouldn't be too much more to it,""" start="00:26:11.400" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""right? We want to rid the world of""" start="00:26:13.740" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""proprietary software as an evil thing.""" start="00:26:15.600" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Ideally, all software should be free.""" start="00:26:19.700" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""But these are just the goals of the free""" start="00:26:23.000" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""software movement. So we're very strict with""" start="00:26:25.160" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""some things. We don't recommend non-free""" start="00:26:27.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""proprietary software. Of course,""" start="00:26:30.060" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""we have no problem mentioning Microsoft""" start="00:26:31.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Windows because everyone knows that there's""" start="00:26:33.260" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""this obscure operating system developed in""" start="00:26:35.140" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""California that some people insist on using.""" start="00:26:39.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""We use, many of us use GNU plus Linux.""" start="00:26:42.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Actually, some core developers happen to use""" start="00:26:45.060" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""exactly, you know, not GNU plus Linux,""" start="00:26:47.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""but that's fine as well,""" start="00:26:50.820" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""right? We take a little bit of a pragmatic""" start="00:26:52.600" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""view, but we don't wanna do,""" start="00:26:54.860" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""what we don't wanna do is promote like this""" start="00:26:56.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""small, unknown piece of non-free software and""" start="00:26:59.020" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""sort of help the non-free software in that""" start="00:27:04.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""way. That's where we try to draw the line,""" start="00:27:08.400" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you know, in just expressing just a few""" start="00:27:12.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""words. So that's 1 thing.""" start="00:27:15.760" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""We're, I think, very pragmatic on this point,""" start="00:27:18.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""but we do try to follow the principle.""" start="00:27:21.620" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""We also require copyright assignment.""" start="00:27:25.240" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And I think in general,""" start="00:27:27.700" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""the argument is that we require a copyright""" start="00:27:30.620" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""assignment, because that makes it easier to""" start="00:27:34.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""defend the legal status of the GNU Emacs""" start="00:27:39.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""source code. So if there's ever a legal""" start="00:27:43.640" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""battle, the idea is that if it's only 1""" start="00:27:45.920" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""copyright holder and you have a GPL""" start="00:27:48.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""violation, i.e. Someone might change Emacs""" start="00:27:50.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and then distribute it as proprietary""" start="00:27:54.140" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""software or something nasty like that,""" start="00:27:56.100" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""then we have an easier way of defending it in""" start="00:27:58.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""court if there is only 1 copyright holder.""" start="00:28:00.620" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So we assigned copyright to the Free Software""" start="00:28:02.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Foundation. And I think there,""" start="00:28:04.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I mean, sometimes people oppose this for""" start="00:28:09.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""various reasons, you know,""" start="00:28:12.600" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""people see it as, you know,""" start="00:28:13.660" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""maybe some people might say,""" start="00:28:15.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you know, it's ideological,""" start="00:28:16.880" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you know, who goes, you know,""" start="00:28:18.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""the FSF goes too far with this.""" start="00:28:19.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And, and, I mean, that's fine.""" start="00:28:21.700" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""You that's, that's an opinion.""" start="00:28:23.860" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And the there, then other people are more""" start="00:28:25.640" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""practical, you know, it's just,""" start="00:28:28.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""It's a hassle, basically,""" start="00:28:30.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""we don't want to sign these papers.""" start="00:28:31.360" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And I'm not really here to tell anyone that""" start="00:28:33.640" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""they're wrong. I've expressed my views on""" start="00:28:35.580" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""this in the past. But just for now,""" start="00:28:37.160" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I'm just very practical for the purposes of""" start="00:28:40.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""this talk. So I signed the papers.""" start="00:28:43.660" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""It's Maybe it didn't take me many minutes.""" start="00:28:46.580" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And in most cases, it shouldn't really.""" start="00:28:49.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And it's something that I found worth doing,""" start="00:28:52.580" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""because that way I could focus on continuing""" start="00:28:55.000" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""to improve Emacs instead of discussing the""" start="00:28:58.580" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""finer points of copyright law.""" start="00:29:01.360" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""You could write patches and stuff,""" start="00:29:03.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that kind of thing. So,""" start="00:29:05.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I mean, this is something that trips people""" start="00:29:06.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""up and, you know, it's fine that people have""" start="00:29:08.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""different opinions on it and so on,""" start="00:29:11.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""but I think for now that's just something to""" start="00:29:14.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""be aware of. So that's,""" start="00:29:19.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think, I mean, there's much more that could""" start="00:29:23.000" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""be said. Ideally, I would like to have a""" start="00:29:26.120" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""practical part to this talk as well.""" start="00:29:27.880" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""But I wanted to say something about the""" start="00:29:32.020" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""packages in Emacs. Because as we know,""" start="00:29:34.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I mean, Emacs is the, I can't remember what""" start="00:29:37.159" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""it says, it's like a visual,""" start="00:29:40.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""there's in the manual it says,""" start="00:29:42.260" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""oh, Emacs is an advanced text editor.""" start="00:29:43.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""It's visual, which, I mean,""" start="00:29:46.180" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""it's not ed, the whole Unix ed,""" start="00:29:47.980" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""so that's cool. It's also customizable,""" start="00:29:50.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""right? So that's always been a thing.""" start="00:29:53.300" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And what makes Emacs so amazing.""" start="00:29:57.800" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And some people described it as,""" start="00:30:00.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I can't remember who said that there has been""" start="00:30:01.920" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""a Cambrian explosion of packages in Emacs.""" start="00:30:03.880" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And I think that's true.""" start="00:30:09.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I mean, if you look at something like Melpa,""" start="00:30:10.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think they have over 5,000""" start="00:30:12.400" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""packages now. It's like truly impressive,""" start="00:30:13.940" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""just an immense amount of work and immense""" start="00:30:16.460" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""amount of packages. And really,""" start="00:30:18.760" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""this shows the strength,""" start="00:30:22.860" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think, of the Emacs community,""" start="00:30:24.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""of Emacs itself as an idea.""" start="00:30:26.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And I think it's also just tremendous work""" start="00:30:29.060" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that's been done by the maintainers.""" start="00:30:31.240" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And they do get a lot of recognition for""" start="00:30:33.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that. And rightly so, in my opinion.""" start="00:30:36.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""It's done so much, I think,""" start="00:30:39.620" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""for our community. The other package archive""" start="00:30:41.920" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that we have is GNU-ELPA.""" start="00:30:44.260" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And that's been enabled since when packages""" start="00:30:46.620" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""first got introduced back in,""" start="00:30:49.640" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think, Emacs, was it 23?""" start="00:30:51.000" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And probably, I mean, the main thing why a""" start="00:30:55.520" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""package goes onto GNU Elpa is,""" start="00:30:59.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you know, it should be installable out of the""" start="00:31:01.860" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""box. So, I mean, that's a big benefit in a""" start="00:31:04.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""sense. It's also a requirement for GNU Alpa""" start="00:31:07.580" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that the copyright, again,""" start="00:31:10.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""just as GNU Emacs, the copyright is assigned""" start="00:31:12.240" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""to the Free Software Foundation.""" start="00:31:15.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And some very hugely popular packages,""" start="00:31:17.080" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""like YaSnippet, for example,""" start="00:31:20.020" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""is on GNU Alpa. And we were discussing this""" start="00:31:21.420" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""just 2 months back. And Joe Tavora,""" start="00:31:25.160" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I can't say his name, G-O-A-O,""" start="00:31:30.060" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Tavora. He made the point that he's never""" start="00:31:33.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""seen a problem in any of his packages with""" start="00:31:36.140" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""copyright assignment in particular.""" start="00:31:40.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""It's never been a problem to get people to be""" start="00:31:42.100" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""involved in the development of those packages""" start="00:31:44.540" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""just because of the copyright assignment""" start="00:31:46.560" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""requirements. So I mean,""" start="00:31:49.160" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that's his perspective on that.""" start="00:31:51.180" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And I think it was worth relating his""" start="00:31:54.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""experience here. So we also have this new""" start="00:32:00.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""package archive called non-GNU-alpha,""" start="00:32:06.500" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""which is now enabled by default as well.""" start="00:32:08.920" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think for practical purposes,""" start="00:32:12.920" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you could get into it a little bit more,""" start="00:32:14.540" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you know, why we created non-NUELPA,""" start="00:32:16.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and perhaps that's something we can discuss""" start="00:32:19.940" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""in the Q&A section. For practical purposes,""" start="00:32:23.360" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""the main thing to be aware of is,""" start="00:32:26.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""yes, we don't promote non-free software on""" start="00:32:28.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""there, And we also don't have the copyright""" start="00:32:30.980" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""assignment requirement.""" start="00:32:36.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think this is probably for new packages.""" start="00:32:41.400" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""It's generally better if they go to GNU Elpa,""" start="00:32:43.940" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""if there is any type of idea or ambition""" start="00:32:48.180" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that, you know, at some point it would be""" start="00:32:51.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""good or it might be good to eventually have""" start="00:32:53.460" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""some type of functionality like this shipped""" start="00:32:56.740" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""with Emacs itself. So I think this is""" start="00:32:58.900" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""something that perhaps package authors could""" start="00:33:01.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""also be aware of, that occasionally we do""" start="00:33:04.020" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""bring in functionality from GNU Elpa into""" start="00:33:07.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""core Emacs because we feel that it should be""" start="00:33:09.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""better integrated with Emacs itself.""" start="00:33:12.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So if I could give any type of""" start="00:33:16.420" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""recommendation, of course,""" start="00:33:18.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you do. These are your packages,""" start="00:33:19.400" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""right? In an ideal world,""" start="00:33:22.120" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""we would only use this for legacy packages""" start="00:33:25.520" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""where people contributed in the past,""" start="00:33:28.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""but you didn't worry about the copyright""" start="00:33:30.240" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""assignment. But where possible,""" start="00:33:32.120" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think there is benefit in putting it on GNU""" start="00:33:34.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Elpa. And I wanted to end a little bit on a""" start="00:33:37.540" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""more, you know, the more opinionated perhaps""" start="00:33:42.900" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""part of my talk and not just talk about""" start="00:33:45.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""processes. I see that I'm running out of""" start="00:33:47.260" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""time. So I will say Emacs is hackable.""" start="00:33:49.160" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And I think that's a blessing and a curse.""" start="00:33:51.760" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And if you think about something like,""" start="00:33:54.520" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""the types of choices that you can make,""" start="00:33:59.060" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""perhaps when you implement something,""" start="00:34:01.100" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""There are choices, different choices between""" start="00:34:03.160" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""something like common list,""" start="00:34:06.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""which is like bigger, more batteries""" start="00:34:07.740" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""included, and something like scheme,""" start="00:34:09.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""which is more minimal.""" start="00:34:11.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And I think we have some of those,""" start="00:34:12.239" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you know, this kind of tension also in the""" start="00:34:13.679" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Emacs itself. What should be in Emacs core?""" start="00:34:16.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Should we have a lean Emacs core?""" start="00:34:18.159" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Should we have more stuff in Emacs core?""" start="00:34:19.699" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And I think these are good discussions to""" start="00:34:22.360" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""have. And there are various challenges that""" start="00:34:26.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""are associated with each of those choices.""" start="00:34:29.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think what will never change is that Emacs""" start="00:34:32.540" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""is hackable. Emacs is customizable.""" start="00:34:35.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""This is the key strength.""" start="00:34:37.500" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""This is why we love and use Emacs.""" start="00:34:38.860" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think fundamentally,""" start="00:34:40.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""whether you do it a lot or not,""" start="00:34:42.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""this is what at core is bringing you that""" start="00:34:44.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""amazing user experience.""" start="00:34:47.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""However, the flip side of that sometimes is""" start="00:34:50.739" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that it's so easy to hack Emacs so that we""" start="00:34:53.199" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""hack around bugs instead of fixing them.""" start="00:34:56.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""We do some tweak and our customers say,""" start="00:34:58.520" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""okay, this is a little bit broken,""" start="00:35:00.540" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Let me just fix it. I'll put an advice on""" start="00:35:01.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""this function. I'll do this customization.""" start="00:35:03.560" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Or we accept limitations in Emacs core.""" start="00:35:06.500" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And I think it's fine.""" start="00:35:09.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I mean, this will never change.""" start="00:35:12.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""That will always be core to what Emacs is,""" start="00:35:13.760" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""right? However, I think that the flip side of""" start="00:35:16.560" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that is that I think sometimes we could be""" start="00:35:20.140" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""better at just taking those few extra steps""" start="00:35:22.500" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""to also make Emacs better itself and solve""" start="00:35:26.820" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""this for all users. And I think if we can""" start="00:35:29.260" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""build a little bit more of a culture like""" start="00:35:31.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that, I mean, we already have that culture to""" start="00:35:33.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""a large extent, don't get me wrong,""" start="00:35:35.460" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""we do, but if we can get a little bit more of""" start="00:35:37.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that culture, let's get that into core,""" start="00:35:39.620" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""let's get that problem fixed,""" start="00:35:41.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that frustration. I can tell you that,""" start="00:35:43.980" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I just started a new assignment at work,""" start="00:35:47.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I already told you, so I'm going to write a""" start="00:35:48.940" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""lot of Python, okay? So I need to keep track""" start="00:35:51.420" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""of something called virtual environments,""" start="00:35:54.140" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and that's just a way to install these""" start="00:35:56.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""dependencies just locally per directory or""" start="00:35:58.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""per repository kind of thing.""" start="00:36:01.640" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And I've used various packages for that.""" start="00:36:03.900" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""There are like 4 packages,""" start="00:36:05.740" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""5 packages, maybe. And 1 is called VM,""" start="00:36:07.940" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and 1 is called VirtualM,""" start="00:36:10.560" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and 1 is called Python-VM.""" start="00:36:11.820" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And now I'm using, you know,""" start="00:36:15.420" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I'm using a different 1.""" start="00:36:16.980" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And it's just a little bit,""" start="00:36:18.100" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""why doesn't this work out of the box in""" start="00:36:20.080" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Emacs? Why? I don't think there's a really""" start="00:36:22.160" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""good fundamental good reason why something""" start="00:36:25.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""like that doesn't work in Emacs.""" start="00:36:28.640" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So I think that's really,""" start="00:36:30.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I mean, I'm sure there are other things like""" start="00:36:32.220" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that, other fundamental features.""" start="00:36:35.220" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Why is it that for the last 20 years,""" start="00:36:37.740" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""we've shipped Emacs with no PHP support out""" start="00:36:39.920" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""of the box? I mean, I'm not a PHP programmer.""" start="00:36:43.740" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I don't really have a lot of love for PHP,""" start="00:36:47.660" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""let's say. To me, it's a very funny-looking""" start="00:36:51.020" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""language, but okay, still it's been very""" start="00:36:57.180" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""popular. Why haven't we supported it?""" start="00:37:00.060" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I mean, it's just strange.""" start="00:37:02.120" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""You install Emacs on some machine,""" start="00:37:03.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you open a PHP file, you get fundamental""" start="00:37:05.220" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""mode. It's not the best user experience,""" start="00:37:07.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""in my opinion. So I think there are some""" start="00:37:09.160" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""things where we really could do a little bit""" start="00:37:12.600" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""better. And I'm seeing this all the time.""" start="00:37:15.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Just this week, this new assignment was""" start="00:37:20.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""interesting. There was this Emacs user.""" start="00:37:22.500" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Turns out we have the exact same hack in both""" start="00:37:24.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""of our init files. So we had created the""" start="00:37:26.980" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""exact same mode for DIRED,""" start="00:37:29.860" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""actually, to hide dot files.""" start="00:37:32.140" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""You know, dot something is supposed to be""" start="00:37:33.920" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""hidden on a Unix system.""" start="00:37:36.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So we had DERED hide dot files mode to just""" start="00:37:40.240" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""hide them. And why isn't that in DERED?""" start="00:37:43.940" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Or should it be in DERED?""" start="00:37:47.100" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Should it be a package on the new Elpa?""" start="00:37:48.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Where should it be? Why is it just local""" start="00:37:51.000" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""hack? Should it be on a wiki somewhere?""" start="00:37:53.000" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I mean, sometimes that's the correct answer.""" start="00:37:54.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Sometimes the correct answer is,""" start="00:37:56.980" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""yes, it should be a package.""" start="00:37:59.060" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Sometimes the correct answer is,""" start="00:38:00.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""yes, it should really be in core.""" start="00:38:02.360" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So what I want to promote is more like,""" start="00:38:04.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""let's just take a step back and just ask""" start="00:38:06.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""yourself, what's the best solution if we look""" start="00:38:08.900" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""at the overall picture?""" start="00:38:11.180" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Should I hack this into my configuration?""" start="00:38:12.240" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""In many cases, yes, that's the right thing to""" start="00:38:14.600" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""do. We don't want to proliferate just random""" start="00:38:16.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""solutions all over Emacs for no reason.""" start="00:38:19.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""But sometimes we want to fix it once and for""" start="00:38:22.540" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""all. We want to do that in core.""" start="00:38:24.760" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So you could send stuff like that to us as""" start="00:38:27.880" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""patches or as packages.""" start="00:38:30.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And we can discuss a little bit about where""" start="00:38:31.560" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""should we solve this? What's the right level""" start="00:38:34.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""of abstraction? I'm seeing that I'm running""" start="00:38:37.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""out of time. I had an Emacs wish list.""" start="00:38:41.100" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Maybe we can take more of that in the Q&A.""" start="00:38:43.620" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""But I want to say, like,""" start="00:38:47.170" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""in VS Code, you just start VS Code.""" start="00:38:49.226" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""You open a Python file,""" start="00:38:50.460" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and you get, like, hey,""" start="00:38:51.660" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""are you trying to use Python?""" start="00:38:53.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Click here, install Python.""" start="00:38:54.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""You get all the nice things out of the box.""" start="00:38:56.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And my argument is, why can't we have more of""" start="00:38:59.180" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that in Emacs? I don't think it's necessarily""" start="00:39:01.560" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""hard, but it does take a little bit of work.""" start="00:39:04.000" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""The challenges here are more social,""" start="00:39:06.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think, than technical.""" start="00:39:09.060" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And I think it's worth doing,""" start="00:39:10.900" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""because it's not just Python.""" start="00:39:12.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""It's just There are always these small things""" start="00:39:14.060" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""where it just really should work,""" start="00:39:16.640" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and that would be a much better experience.""" start="00:39:18.900" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And then you could customize not that thing""" start="00:39:20.900" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that should just work,""" start="00:39:23.360" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""but you could customize more fun and""" start="00:39:24.640" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""exploratory things instead of people""" start="00:39:27.140" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""reinventing the wheel over and over again.""" start="00:39:29.620" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So I'm very excited about what's happening in""" start="00:39:31.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Emacs. I think we should be proud of what""" start="00:39:33.420" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""we've accomplished. It's so many things to""" start="00:39:35.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""many different people,""" start="00:39:37.360" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""an environment for hacking,""" start="00:39:38.360" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""just a productivity system.""" start="00:39:40.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Other sees us as a different way of looking""" start="00:39:41.880" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""at computing, you know,""" start="00:39:44.020" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""the embodiment of the ideal of the Lisp""" start="00:39:45.360" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""machine if you want to talk big words and""" start="00:39:47.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""stuff like that. And of course,""" start="00:39:49.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Emacs are all those things and so many more.""" start="00:39:50.660" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And that's what makes Emacs so amazing.""" start="00:39:53.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And in some sense, we should be care that""" start="00:39:56.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""people are satisfied with using lesser text""" start="00:40:00.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""editors. How could they be happy running""" start="00:40:03.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that? I mean, I'm sure it's fine,""" start="00:40:05.600" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""but it sure as hell isn't Emacs.""" start="00:40:07.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So don't we owe it to the world and to them""" start="00:40:09.800" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and to ourselves to make a great Emacs.""" start="00:40:12.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""That will be my ending words.""" start="00:40:14.760" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And I hope to see you all in the Q&A.""" start="00:40:16.120" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Thank you all. And thank you so much,""" start="00:40:18.120" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Stefan. That was a wonderful presentation.""" start="00:40:22.560" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And I just want to give you the opportunity.""" start="00:40:24.800" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""You said that you perhaps had,""" start="00:40:27.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Not the practical stuff,""" start="00:40:30.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""but you wanted to do a demo or something like""" start="00:40:31.400" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""this? What did you mention exactly?""" start="00:40:33.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Yeah, we didn't have time really.""" start="00:40:36.180" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Yes, I'm not sure. I didn't prepare anything""" start="00:40:38.740" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""so that we can do it live.""" start="00:40:42.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""But maybe for next time,""" start="00:40:43.620" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I will do a demo. Don't hold me to it.""" start="00:40:44.800" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Or someone else could.""" start="00:40:49.920" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""That would be really amazing.""" start="00:40:51.100" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Right. Well, thank you,""" start="00:40:53.260" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Stéphane. You've been already into so much""" start="00:40:54.020" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""detail of so many... So much of the intricacy""" start="00:40:56.820" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""of the maintenance. And as someone who's been""" start="00:41:01.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""95% of the time developing for Melpa,""" start="00:41:05.460" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I feel like this talk was very geared to a""" start="00:41:08.260" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""lot of us who tend to experiment in this""" start="00:41:11.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Cambrian stage of Emacs evolution,""" start="00:41:13.980" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""where we get to deploy a lot of creativity""" start="00:41:16.400" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""whilst also feeling pretty agile in a way we""" start="00:41:20.600" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""come up with solutions to problems.""" start="00:41:24.020" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""But you've won me over with your discussion""" start="00:41:25.640" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""about potentially moving some of this stuff""" start="00:41:29.240" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""to core. And I think this particularly""" start="00:41:31.360" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""resonated at the end with this tension that""" start="00:41:33.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you feel about problems that you encounter.""" start="00:41:36.140" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Do you fix them in Melpa?""" start="00:41:39.160" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Do you fix them in core?""" start="00:41:40.760" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Is it not something that is supposed to be an""" start="00:41:42.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""option? I love this tension and it's""" start="00:41:43.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""something that we've been exploring for the""" start="00:41:46.560" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""last 3 edition of Emacs Cons.""" start="00:41:48.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""It's really what is to be the interaction""" start="00:41:49.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""between this pool of very clever developers""" start="00:41:52.600" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""who are on Melpa but who are perhaps a little""" start="00:41:55.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""bit afraid of joining Core and the wonderful""" start="00:41:58.100" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""job that you do that, yes,""" start="00:42:00.920" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""seems archaic from the outside,""" start="00:42:02.980" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""but as you've been at length today in your""" start="00:42:05.860" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""presentation, is actually just a better way""" start="00:42:07.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""to work, a very pragmatic way to get a lot of""" start="00:42:09.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""work done. So, thank you so much for your""" start="00:42:11.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""presentation. Thank you,""" start="00:42:13.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Leo. So, we have about 12 minutes now to go""" start="00:42:15.240" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""through as many questions as possible.""" start="00:42:20.740" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""You have obviously had a lot of questions""" start="00:42:22.950" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""throughout your presentation.""" start="00:42:26.000" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Do you have access to the pad,""" start="00:42:27.660" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""or do you want me to share the question and""" start="00:42:28.940" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""feed them to you? Yes,""" start="00:42:30.400" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""could you start with sharing them?""" start="00:42:32.660" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I'll see if I can get it on my screen.""" start="00:42:34.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Sure, I'll do that. Please let me know if my""" start="00:42:36.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""microphone is clipping because my OBS setup""" start="00:42:39.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""sometimes is a little bit janky.""" start="00:42:42.980" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""But I'm going to try to read the questions""" start="00:42:44.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""for now. It's tipping,""" start="00:42:46.080" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I can hear you okay. Okay,""" start="00:42:48.080" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""so bear with the clicking,""" start="00:42:51.980" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""we'll switch as soon as possible to Stefan""" start="00:42:54.400" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""reading the question, but I'll read the first""" start="00:42:56.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""1. Can you tell us some about your,""" start="00:42:58.080" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""can you tell us some more I assume,""" start="00:43:02.860" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""about your background with Emacs development""" start="00:43:04.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and programming in general,""" start="00:43:06.160" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""your professional work possibly?""" start="00:43:07.580" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Yeah, sure. Okay, I studied computer science""" start="00:43:11.400" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""at university. I started programming on a""" start="00:43:15.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Commodore 64. I started with BASIC and then I""" start="00:43:19.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""did a couple of versions of BASIC as a kid.""" start="00:43:23.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""But then really things took off when I""" start="00:43:27.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""started using GNU Linux.""" start="00:43:31.540" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I can't remember which year,""" start="00:43:34.300" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""maybe it was early 2000,""" start="00:43:35.580" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""something like that, late.""" start="00:43:38.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""No, it must've been before that actually,""" start="00:43:39.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""because I remember I was 14.""" start="00:43:42.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Yeah, okay, so let's say 1999,""" start="00:43:44.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""1998, somewhere there around.""" start="00:43:46.500" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Then I started with Perl,""" start="00:43:48.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and I did Perl for a good long while.""" start="00:43:50.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I learned C++, I learned C,""" start="00:43:52.700" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I did all kinds of stuff,""" start="00:43:55.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and then I went to university,""" start="00:43:56.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""computer science, and I've been working,""" start="00:43:59.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you know, in various roles.""" start="00:44:01.700" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Right now, I'm coding Python.""" start="00:44:04.160" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Up until last Friday, I was writing firmware""" start="00:44:06.980" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""in C for a small microcontroller,""" start="00:44:09.940" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""which is pretty different than writing""" start="00:44:12.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Python, that's for sure.""" start="00:44:15.600" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So yeah, so that's a little bit about me.""" start="00:44:17.220" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I got interested in free software,""" start="00:44:19.600" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you know, also at a very young age.""" start="00:44:22.300" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So, I mean, I've been following these,""" start="00:44:24.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you know, ideological discussions and""" start="00:44:26.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""debates, read all this stuff by Richard""" start="00:44:29.120" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Stallman and so on and so forth.""" start="00:44:31.560" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""But yeah, that's it. Great,""" start="00:44:33.940" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""thank you. I'll move on to the next question.""" start="00:44:37.760" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""You'll have to listen to me because if I""" start="00:44:41.120" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""start sharing my screen again,""" start="00:44:42.980" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""we're going to get some clicks.""" start="00:44:45.020" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So the question. Do you think that 1 day""" start="00:44:48.140" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""there will be a native I'll start again,""" start="00:44:50.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""sorry. Do you think that 1 day there will be""" start="00:44:53.930" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""a native... I'll start again,""" start="00:44:54.079" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""sorry. Do you think that 1 day there will be""" start="00:44:54.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""a native graphical web browser in Emacs or is""" start="00:44:56.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""it kind of against its philosophy and""" start="00:44:59.020" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""architecture? So will we stick just with EWW""" start="00:45:00.540" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and EAF or similar workaround tricks?""" start="00:45:04.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So if, I don't know if people have seen,""" start="00:45:08.640" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""there is a talk by, I think,""" start="00:45:11.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Perry Metzger, is that the name?""" start="00:45:13.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Sorry if I got the name wrong.""" start="00:45:15.080" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Perry Metzger, I think.""" start="00:45:17.080" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""It's like, he marks a text editor for the""" start="00:45:18.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""next 40 years. He makes an excellent point""" start="00:45:20.800" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""there that 1 of the things that we need to do""" start="00:45:22.640" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""is really get a proper HTML rendering in""" start="00:45:24.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Emacs. It's like a dream at this point.""" start="00:45:27.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""No 1 is actively working on something like""" start="00:45:30.260" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that. I think that, you know,""" start="00:45:32.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""there, first of all, you'd need to rewrite""" start="00:45:34.240" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""the display engine. So that's a big job.""" start="00:45:36.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""It is. I'm not saying,""" start="00:45:39.920" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you know, it can't be done,""" start="00:45:41.140" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""but you need to start there.""" start="00:45:43.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Right? Second of all, you need to think""" start="00:45:44.660" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""about, you know, with all the Emacs Lisp code""" start="00:45:47.560" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""out there, is really assuming,""" start="00:45:50.460" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you know, 1 paradigm, which is that you have""" start="00:45:52.090" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""a square, and basically you have columns and""" start="00:45:54.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you have rows, and everything is in there,""" start="00:45:57.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""even images, is basically in a column,""" start="00:45:59.760" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you know, in a column on a row somewhere.""" start="00:46:02.540" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Whereas, you know, when you just start doing""" start="00:46:05.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""the more web stuff and web rendering,""" start="00:46:07.360" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you already have like a seaplane.""" start="00:46:10.120" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""You have different types of geometries that""" start="00:46:12.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""are possible. And what does it mean to go to""" start="00:46:14.500" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""the logical next line in that kind of sense?""" start="00:46:16.880" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I mean these types of things I'm not saying""" start="00:46:19.370" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""it can't be done. I'm saying there are there""" start="00:46:21.420" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""are definitely some challenges there It would""" start="00:46:23.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""be amazing I mean, but we need someone with""" start="00:46:27.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you know, the inclination and talent I think""" start="00:46:30.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""to work on that's a job posting if I've ever""" start="00:46:33.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""had 1. So good luck to whoever's willing to""" start="00:46:37.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""apply for this 1. I think it's a tough 1.""" start="00:46:40.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""It is, yes. Go on. Okay,""" start="00:46:43.180" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""do you happen to have the questions in front""" start="00:46:46.560" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""of you? Can I just read them to you so that""" start="00:46:48.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you can also have a feedback in front of you?""" start="00:46:50.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Yes, I have the pad here.""" start="00:46:54.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Okay, cool. So I'll read the next question""" start="00:46:57.260" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and this way I don't have to worry too much""" start="00:46:58.860" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""about me butchering every word in the""" start="00:47:00.260" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""sentence. So, Emacs development and""" start="00:47:02.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""communication still is very much focused on""" start="00:47:04.540" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""email mailing lists. I like this,""" start="00:47:06.460" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""but what do you think about introducing other""" start="00:47:08.640" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""channels for talking to users,""" start="00:47:10.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""like the Emacs project community could set up""" start="00:47:12.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""a master on instance of its own,""" start="00:47:15.140" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""for instance? I think from the point of view""" start="00:47:17.120" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""of the Emacs core team,""" start="00:47:20.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""we don't really have a lot of resources or""" start="00:47:21.760" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""people inclined to be working on stuff like""" start="00:47:23.860" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that. But I mean, there is so much going on.""" start="00:47:25.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Emacs is a very, you know,""" start="00:47:27.880" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""It's a big community, frankly,""" start="00:47:30.420" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""right? So people working on emacs.com,""" start="00:47:32.580" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""there are people in the IRC channel,""" start="00:47:34.760" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""the emacs IRC channel,""" start="00:47:37.500" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""there's the emacs subreddit.""" start="00:47:39.400" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And I mean, people are doing an incredible""" start="00:47:40.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""job. And I think if people wanna do more""" start="00:47:43.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""stuff like that, I mean,""" start="00:47:45.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Don't wait for Argo, just go for it.""" start="00:47:46.400" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Great. Moving on to the next question.""" start="00:47:52.000" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Sorry, I'm not commenting anymore because we""" start="00:47:54.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""have so many questions and I'd love for you""" start="00:47:56.520" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""to answer as many people as possible because""" start="00:47:58.180" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""we have about 6 minutes technically,""" start="00:48:00.260" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""but we can go perhaps a little bit over.""" start="00:48:02.640" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""If you have the time, Stefan,""" start="00:48:05.080" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""though. Yeah. Okay, great.""" start="00:48:06.220" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""What are some features or packages you'd like""" start="00:48:09.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""to see developed by the community?""" start="00:48:11.140" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""We've already talked about the native HTTP""" start="00:48:12.560" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""display, but do you have any others?""" start="00:48:15.920" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So, I mean, developed by the community,""" start="00:48:19.540" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""it depends what you mean.""" start="00:48:22.360" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So do you mean sending stuff that people""" start="00:48:23.240" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""could be working on in general?""" start="00:48:27.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think for now, like let's say the roadmap,""" start="00:48:30.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I'll just give some of the things that I""" start="00:48:33.420" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""think should happen right now and that I""" start="00:48:35.140" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""would love for people to send patches for.""" start="00:48:36.940" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""That's what I'm gonna be answering because""" start="00:48:39.060" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that's what I think I can answer.""" start="00:48:41.120" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Tree-sitter is a new thing,""" start="00:48:43.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""right? Improving and working on new modes""" start="00:48:45.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""for, you know, TreeSitter,""" start="00:48:48.860" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""it's not very hard. I think many people get""" start="00:48:50.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""into it and make sure to integrate them in""" start="00:48:52.900" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Emacs core. I think that would be,""" start="00:48:55.560" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I mean, on my wishlist.""" start="00:48:58.140" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""The other thing that is that we've asked for""" start="00:49:00.140" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""someone perhaps with a little bit more""" start="00:49:01.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""experience, I think, but working on""" start="00:49:03.740" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""refactoring capabilities in Emacs and a more""" start="00:49:05.940" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""general framework, I think,""" start="00:49:09.080" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""for that. There are probably many more ideas""" start="00:49:11.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that I could give people,""" start="00:49:13.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""but those would be the 2 big ones,""" start="00:49:15.300" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think, that are also very uncontroversial.""" start="00:49:17.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""It's funny because for me,""" start="00:49:22.360" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I don't think refactoring would count as a""" start="00:49:24.400" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""feature, but it's so vital to allowing""" start="00:49:26.760" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""further features to be developed.""" start="00:49:30.360" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Otherwise, I remember the way Org Mode used""" start="00:49:31.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""to be before we had Org Element and stuff""" start="00:49:34.160" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""like this. It was really complicated to write""" start="00:49:36.300" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""any kind of parsing stuff for it.""" start="00:49:38.940" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And now that we've got it,""" start="00:49:41.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""it just opened up a world of possibility""" start="00:49:42.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""where parsing an Org Mode file is just made""" start="00:49:44.180" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""so much easier. So I think that's a wonderful""" start="00:49:46.160" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""answer because it goes,""" start="00:49:48.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""it's multi-layered as you would expect from""" start="00:49:49.760" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""something that concerns the whole of Emacs.""" start="00:49:52.080" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Moving on to the next question.""" start="00:49:55.800" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""What is the hardest decision being made""" start="00:49:57.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""within Emacs dev for the last 3 years.""" start="00:49:59.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I'm not sure, is it the decision in the last""" start="00:50:02.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""3 years or I'll let you interpret the""" start="00:50:04.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""question however you want.""" start="00:50:07.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Okay, well, I'll say this.""" start="00:50:09.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I started in August and I haven't had any""" start="00:50:11.640" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""really hard decisions so far.""" start="00:50:14.220" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So good news. Maybe Eli will have more for""" start="00:50:16.920" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""the last 3 years. Keep it simple.""" start="00:50:20.540" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Thanks. Cool. Next question.""" start="00:50:25.240" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Any plans to integrate XWM into core?""" start="00:50:28.860" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Emacs is a really good Winters manager.""" start="00:50:31.940" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""That's super cool. I think EXWM is cool.""" start="00:50:34.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think they need to upgrade to Wayland""" start="00:50:38.100" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""somehow and that's not clear yet,""" start="00:50:40.260" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""but you know, we don't have any current plans""" start="00:50:41.880" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""to integrate it, no. Right,""" start="00:50:44.880" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Next question. Do you think it is a good idea""" start="00:50:49.020" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""to choose Org Mode for writing documentation""" start="00:50:51.600" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""instead of tech info? I think that whatever""" start="00:50:53.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""we do, it should be the people that are""" start="00:50:57.740" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""working on the documentation that should make""" start="00:50:59.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that choice. Currently we have,""" start="00:51:01.760" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think, Modus themes and Org Mode itself is""" start="00:51:03.420" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""writing their documentation in Org Mode,""" start="00:51:05.920" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that's fine by me. It has some drawbacks,""" start="00:51:08.080" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""it has some benefits, but most documentation""" start="00:51:10.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""is still in tech info.""" start="00:51:13.580" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Maybe we'd need to replace that at some""" start="00:51:15.240" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""point, I don't know. But for now,""" start="00:51:17.360" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that's what people know and use.""" start="00:51:19.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And if you find that as a barrier to""" start="00:51:22.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""contribute to Emacs, I mean,""" start="00:51:24.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""just really write it as plain text.""" start="00:51:25.600" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""We'll be happy to help you with the markup.""" start="00:51:27.540" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""It's a little bit, you know,""" start="00:51:29.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""finicky and stuff like that.""" start="00:51:30.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Great. Thanks for that.""" start="00:51:33.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Next question. What do you plan to work on in""" start="00:51:35.620" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Emacs Core in the future?""" start="00:51:38.000" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I'm a little bit hesitant to reply to that.""" start="00:51:40.460" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Of course I have ideas.""" start="00:51:42.660" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Of course there are projects that I'm working""" start="00:51:43.740" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""on. However, if I say it here,""" start="00:51:45.760" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I feel like, you know,""" start="00:51:47.640" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""then you'll hold me to it later and come ask,""" start="00:51:48.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""where is that feature?""" start="00:51:51.300" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So I'll just say there is plenty of stuff""" start="00:51:52.640" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that I'm working on, and if you want to know""" start="00:51:55.180" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""some of the stuff that I have been working""" start="00:51:57.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""on, check the Git log.""" start="00:51:58.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think that's just really as much as I want""" start="00:52:00.060" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""to say about that right now.""" start="00:52:02.400" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""You've added folks to just look at the path""" start="00:52:05.660" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""with the changelog and that's all you need.""" start="00:52:07.360" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""All right, moving on to the next question.""" start="00:52:11.600" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""What do you use Emacs for in your life other""" start="00:52:14.020" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""than working on Emacs itself?""" start="00:52:16.120" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Oh shit. So the big thing is programming,""" start="00:52:18.080" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""right? Now I work as a programmer.""" start="00:52:21.140" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""But in general, I use org mode heavily.""" start="00:52:27.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I use it for all my writing.""" start="00:52:29.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I use it to write, prepare this talk.""" start="00:52:30.820" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I use it as a productivity system.""" start="00:52:33.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I use it for emails. I use it as an RSS""" start="00:52:35.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""reader. I do most of my computing.""" start="00:52:41.980" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I also have Firefox. So it's like Emacs and""" start="00:52:44.760" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Firefox for some reason.""" start="00:52:47.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I do read documentation in Emacs as well in""" start="00:52:48.900" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you, but yeah. Great. I'm still,""" start="00:52:51.900" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I do very much the same thing with you.""" start="00:52:59.180" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Like You've described exactly what I do.""" start="00:53:00.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I work as a programmer,""" start="00:53:02.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I use Augment for a lot of stuff,""" start="00:53:02.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and I think that describes a whole lot of""" start="00:53:04.640" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""people currently watching the stream.""" start="00:53:06.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Moving on to the next question.""" start="00:53:09.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""What could we do in order to make Emacs more""" start="00:53:10.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""attractive for younger users?""" start="00:53:12.740" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""This is an amazing question and I feel wholly""" start="00:53:14.820" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""unprepared to answer this.""" start="00:53:18.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Probably more introductory material aimed at""" start="00:53:21.180" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that age group. What do you mean by younger""" start="00:53:24.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""users? You know what would be really cool if""" start="00:53:26.580" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you had an Emacs for kids project?""" start="00:53:28.740" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""That would be amazing.""" start="00:53:31.020" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I'm not sure if that's what people are""" start="00:53:32.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""thinking about, but yeah,""" start="00:53:34.920" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that's about what I can say for now.""" start="00:53:37.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Good question. It is a very good question,""" start="00:53:40.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""like it comes back always to a key topic in""" start="00:53:43.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""EmacsConf, which is, how do we get more""" start="00:53:45.880" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""people to join us? Because it's a wonderful""" start="00:53:47.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""community. And how do we onboard people who""" start="00:53:49.360" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""are not programmers or people who are younger""" start="00:53:51.760" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""than the average Joe coming in those""" start="00:53:54.400" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""meetings? There's this Excellent article by""" start="00:53:57.120" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Paul Graham, I think, where he was describing""" start="00:54:01.560" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""how they used Emacs as the sort of customer""" start="00:54:06.140" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""service system. They built the customer""" start="00:54:09.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""service system for the early days of Amazon""" start="00:54:11.520" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""in Emacs Lisp. And then they switched and all""" start="00:54:14.700" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""the employees were sad.""" start="00:54:17.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So definitely there's more stuff that could""" start="00:54:18.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""be done in Emacs and be done better in Emacs.""" start="00:54:21.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So for sure, if people want to explore more""" start="00:54:25.240" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""stuff like that, that's amazing.""" start="00:54:27.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Yeah. And for people who weren't around""" start="00:54:29.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""earlier today, we've had a presentation about""" start="00:54:32.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""how to get computer science students to use""" start="00:54:33.740" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Emacs and trying to provide as much""" start="00:54:36.860" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""information and as much tutorial as needed""" start="00:54:41.100" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""for them to understand what is the philosophy""" start="00:54:43.500" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""behind Emacs and how it influences the way""" start="00:54:45.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you work and so forth.""" start="00:54:48.420" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So you might want to revisit this discussion.""" start="00:54:49.540" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And we also have plenty of talks talking""" start="00:54:51.420" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""about this issue. And I can just add that I""" start="00:54:53.400" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""think it's very important for us as a""" start="00:54:57.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""community to just be enthusiastic to get more""" start="00:55:00.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""people involved. Because I mean,""" start="00:55:03.120" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""look, there's this meme where it's like,""" start="00:55:04.640" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I use Arch Linux, by the way,""" start="00:55:06.660" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I use Arch, by the way.""" start="00:55:08.620" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And for some reason, people using Arch keep""" start="00:55:10.080" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""telling you that they're using Arch.""" start="00:55:12.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""That's fine. Use whatever you want.""" start="00:55:14.600" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""It's free software, I don't care.""" start="00:55:16.160" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think if you look at Vim users,""" start="00:55:20.140" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""they're very almost militant,""" start="00:55:21.900" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""oh, we're Vim, and Vim is the thing.""" start="00:55:23.540" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And Emacs users sometimes,""" start="00:55:25.920" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and it's fine. We take a bit of a more""" start="00:55:27.700" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""laid-back approach. We're like,""" start="00:55:29.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""yeah, I use Emacs, you use Vim,""" start="00:55:31.160" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""whatever. And that's fine.""" start="00:55:32.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I mean, that's the correct approach,""" start="00:55:35.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think. You should respect what people want""" start="00:55:36.820" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""to use. I don't care that people use VS Code""" start="00:55:38.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""or whatever. I'm not going to use that""" start="00:55:40.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""because it's too limiting.""" start="00:55:42.540" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""It's not really a workable environment.""" start="00:55:43.940" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""But I think it's OK to be enthusiastic.""" start="00:55:46.400" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think it's okay to talk about that type of""" start="00:55:48.740" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""enthusiasm and anything that can help""" start="00:55:51.360" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""increase the enthusiasm around Emacs can only""" start="00:55:54.400" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""help the longevity of Emacs.""" start="00:55:56.880" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I agree and that's also 1 of the key""" start="00:56:02.520" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""objectives of EmacsConf.""" start="00:56:04.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""It's about bringing a lot of amazing people""" start="00:56:05.460" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""to come talk, like you,""" start="00:56:07.660" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""about stuff that is very dear to you.""" start="00:56:09.140" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And it's very tangible how much you care,""" start="00:56:11.400" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""all of you, about what you're presenting.""" start="00:56:14.180" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And it's amazing to put all of you people on""" start="00:56:15.920" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""just 48 hours talking about all of this and""" start="00:56:18.560" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""then creating so much content for people to""" start="00:56:20.800" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""watch. And I think it's really helping the""" start="00:56:22.920" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""enthusiasm to live on and to gather a little""" start="00:56:24.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""more snow as it comes down.""" start="00:56:28.140" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Yeah, I watch you Max Conf every year.""" start="00:56:29.920" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think it's a lot of fun.""" start="00:56:31.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Thank you. I'll take the compliment for""" start="00:56:34.300" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""everyone else in the team.""" start="00:56:37.360" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""We're going to go a little bit longer with""" start="00:56:39.620" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""the Q&A because we still have a lot of""" start="00:56:41.120" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""questions and if Stéphane is still willing to""" start="00:56:42.800" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""answer, I'm still willing to not go too bad""" start="00:56:44.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""to hear a lot more of it.""" start="00:56:48.160" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Yeah, for me it's fine.""" start="00:56:49.740" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I have time. Great. So I think I've done this""" start="00:56:50.580" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""question. So, all right.""" start="00:56:55.760" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""How are we going to make sure that a cool""" start="00:56:58.080" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""idea is going to pass it through for the next""" start="00:57:00.060" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""generation, let's say 20 years later,""" start="00:57:01.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""the generation still have the good knowledge""" start="00:57:04.120" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""we have today. Yeah, so I mean,""" start="00:57:05.860" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""if you think about what does EMAX need to""" start="00:57:09.940" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""have staying power, so in general,""" start="00:57:12.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""they say, you know, if if when you start a""" start="00:57:15.180" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""company, if you have a company for 1 year,""" start="00:57:17.020" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""then in all likelihood,""" start="00:57:19.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you're going to have it for 2 years because,""" start="00:57:20.220" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you know, it's just so if you've had Emacs""" start="00:57:21.820" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""for 4 years, I'm saying that we're going to""" start="00:57:23.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""have Emacs for the next 4 years as well.""" start="00:57:25.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Just based on that, I'm not sure the logic""" start="00:57:27.980" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""holds up, but you know,""" start="00:57:30.540" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""how does Emacs stay relevant?""" start="00:57:32.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think is the question.""" start="00:57:34.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Well, I think we need to continue working on""" start="00:57:35.500" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""all the types of exploratory work that people""" start="00:57:38.520" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""are doing in the community.""" start="00:57:41.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think there is fundamental stuff that needs""" start="00:57:43.820" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""to be done. I mean, if people want to work""" start="00:57:45.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""on, you know, web rendering and Emacs,""" start="00:57:47.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""maybe that's the next,""" start="00:57:49.400" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you know, revolutionary step that we need""" start="00:57:50.240" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that could, you know, really showcase what""" start="00:57:53.240" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Emacs, you know, as, you know,""" start="00:57:55.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""an idea, even if not Emacs as a software""" start="00:57:57.640" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""could be and, you know,""" start="00:58:00.620" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Because there is huge potential in the idea""" start="00:58:01.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""as such. So maybe that's something.""" start="00:58:05.000" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""But I mean, from the point of view of core""" start="00:58:07.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""development, I think we need to just continue""" start="00:58:09.600" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""working on the fundamental technologies.""" start="00:58:11.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""1 thing that I would like to eventually see""" start="00:58:15.260" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""is a better garbage collector.""" start="00:58:17.980" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""We've talked about that for a long time,""" start="00:58:19.900" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""but I mean, we need someone to do the job""" start="00:58:22.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""really. It's not very easy.""" start="00:58:25.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""It's very hard, actually.""" start="00:58:27.980" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So just continues working on stuff like that,""" start="00:58:31.100" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""continue with the exploration,""" start="00:58:34.000" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""continue using and being excited about Emacs.""" start="00:58:35.800" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think that's the best guarantee that we""" start="00:58:40.260" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""have. Yeah, and perhaps to echo something""" start="00:58:43.180" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that you said earlier,""" start="00:58:45.800" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""the tools that you're using,""" start="00:58:46.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""like the emails, they've been around forever,""" start="00:58:47.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""they will be around forever.""" start="00:58:49.920" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""This pragmatic stance on the tools that""" start="00:58:51.500" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you're using, they might look stayed from the""" start="00:58:53.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""outside, but ultimately they are what permits""" start="00:58:56.240" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""a sense of longevity to any kind of project""" start="00:58:59.220" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you embark upon. Also,""" start="00:59:03.300" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""in a sense, I think that the expectations""" start="00:59:05.460" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""might be changing in the sense that,""" start="00:59:07.740" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you know, when I started using GNU Linux,""" start="00:59:09.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you know what the first thing I did was,""" start="00:59:12.980" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""because I couldn't get Xorg to run.""" start="00:59:15.060" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So the first thing you had to do was you had""" start="00:59:16.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""to compile your own Linux kernel.""" start="00:59:19.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So you sit there and make manuconfig and""" start="00:59:20.820" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you'll like, try to read it and you've never""" start="00:59:22.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""done anything like this before.""" start="00:59:24.880" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""You know, I was just a kid.""" start="00:59:26.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I had never been at this kind of,""" start="00:59:27.800" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you know, whatever. So I had to start with""" start="00:59:29.540" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that. And then you have to write the X or""" start="00:59:31.560" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""configuration file. And I had the patience""" start="00:59:34.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""for that. But nowadays,""" start="00:59:36.100" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""people have different expectations.""" start="00:59:37.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""You just install something,""" start="00:59:38.740" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and it works. And we need to keep that in""" start="00:59:40.640" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""mind as well. So that's why I keep pushing as""" start="00:59:42.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""1 of my big things. We need to build a more""" start="00:59:45.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""cohesive experience out of the box.""" start="00:59:48.740" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Of course, that can be customizable.""" start="00:59:51.180" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""You shouldn't shoehorn anything in just for""" start="00:59:52.940" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""the sake of it. But you could get some things""" start="00:59:55.240" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""a little bit more for free.""" start="00:59:58.940" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And maybe some of us that have our own""" start="01:00:01.220" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""configs and we've been doing this for you""" start="01:00:03.080" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""know, 2, 05:10, even 20 years,""" start="01:00:04.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""we could also see, you know,""" start="01:00:08.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""from the point of view of a new user that""" start="01:00:09.660" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""just installs VS Code and then they click,""" start="01:00:11.640" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""yes I use Python, yes I use that,""" start="01:00:13.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and then it just automatically works.""" start="01:00:15.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""You know what I mean? I mean,""" start="01:00:19.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""then could we get closer to that perhaps a""" start="01:00:20.600" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""little bit? I think that would also help.""" start="01:00:24.140" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Yeah, I think that's what we call the""" start="01:00:26.760" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""configuration wizard. And we were talking""" start="01:00:28.700" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""about this, I think, a couple of years ago at""" start="01:00:30.580" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""EmacsConf. I can't remember if it was with""" start="01:00:32.520" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Adam in the chat. Adam,""" start="01:00:34.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I mean Alpha Papa, or if it was with Bastien,""" start="01:00:35.740" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""but I remember the idea cropping off.""" start="01:00:38.240" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Like, it's either you get a tutorial for""" start="01:00:40.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Emacs, a proper tutorial,""" start="01:00:42.520" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""or you get a wizard, or you get both,""" start="01:00:43.520" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and then all is right for the world.""" start="01:00:45.640" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""But definitely cool ideas being evoked.""" start="01:00:47.520" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I'm gonna say I need to decree the time when""" start="01:00:50.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""we finish because for me it is 11.15""" start="01:00:52.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""p.m. And I think my co-organizers are also""" start="01:00:55.080" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""willing to end the day and go rest because""" start="01:00:59.300" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""we've got another day to go tomorrow.""" start="01:01:01.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So how about we take 3 minutes and 30 seconds""" start="01:01:03.760" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""to try to answer a little bit more succinctly""" start="01:01:06.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""the questions we've got left.""" start="01:01:08.560" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""How does that sound, Stefan?""" start="01:01:09.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Sounds great. Cool, so I'll start reading the""" start="01:01:11.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""questions then that we've got left.""" start="01:01:15.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So this 1 we've got. If you're willing to""" start="01:01:18.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""discuss it, what do you think about the""" start="01:01:20.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""recent controversy about use of CLLib in""" start="01:01:22.360" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Emacs call code? Am I willing to discuss""" start="01:01:24.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that? I have said my opinion on Emacs,""" start="01:01:29.980" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Devel, I think. And I think I understand,""" start="01:01:36.420" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think, the viewpoints of both sides in that""" start="01:01:40.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""discussion. It is true that some things,""" start="01:01:44.820" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I mean, we have to think about that.""" start="01:01:46.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""There is a real problem,""" start="01:01:49.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think, when we have 3 different APIs for""" start="01:01:50.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""doing the same thing in Emacs.""" start="01:01:53.520" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And can we make that a little bit better?""" start="01:01:55.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I mean, perhaps we could,""" start="01:01:57.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""right? So that's about as much as I'd like to""" start="01:01:59.760" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""say. Fair enough. I would have also accepted""" start="01:02:04.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that CL loops are ugly to write and they""" start="01:02:06.940" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""don't feel very lispy.""" start="01:02:09.160" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""But I'll take your answer as well.""" start="01:02:10.320" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Yeah, some people think that.""" start="01:02:13.260" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I understand that position as well.""" start="01:02:15.660" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Right. Okay, next question.""" start="01:02:19.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""When we find a bug in our Emacs,""" start="01:02:21.260" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""do we need to try to replicate it on our side""" start="01:02:23.100" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""version, on our SID version,""" start="01:02:25.200" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""sorry, then update all the usual list package""" start="01:02:26.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""we use, and if we succeed to replicate the""" start="01:02:29.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""bug in this version, only then go to""" start="01:02:31.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""development version 30 and do the same.""" start="01:02:33.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Then only ask for assistance in reporting the""" start="01:02:35.660" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""bug we found. So I believe when they""" start="01:02:37.580" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""encounter a bug, are people supposed to go to""" start="01:02:40.260" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""master to pull main and just to make sure""" start="01:02:43.540" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that they are on the latest version.""" start="01:02:47.500" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Is this something that you require?""" start="01:02:48.740" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""We don't require that,""" start="01:02:50.660" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""but we do try to encourage you to reproduce""" start="01:02:51.860" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""it on master if we think that it matters.""" start="01:02:54.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Yeah, so if you can, that's even better.""" start="01:02:57.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""But if the bug is there in Emacs 29,""" start="01:03:01.620" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""maybe we want to fix it in Emacs 29.2.""" start="01:03:03.940" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So the latest point release is also fine.""" start="01:03:06.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Bugs in Emacs 28 at this point,""" start="01:03:10.400" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""like the previous major version,""" start="01:03:12.940" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""we might ask you to try to reproduce it on""" start="01:03:15.060" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Emacs 29 because we're not planning more""" start="01:03:17.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""releases of old major versions.""" start="01:03:19.600" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So that's the fundamental reason for that.""" start="01:03:21.600" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Great. Thank you for your answer.""" start="01:03:24.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""All right. Moving on to the next question.""" start="01:03:25.900" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""On branching off sub-threads,""" start="01:03:27.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I note that they are less visible compared to""" start="01:03:29.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""starting a new thread in practice.""" start="01:03:31.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I am wondering if it is just my impression or""" start="01:03:33.520" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""something devs also observe.""" start="01:03:35.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Yeah, it's true. That's correct.""" start="01:03:37.920" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I don't know what to do about it.""" start="01:03:41.400" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""If you want more visibility,""" start="01:03:42.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I guess just start a new thread.""" start="01:03:44.180" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I don't know. I can only agree,""" start="01:03:47.080" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""really. I concur. That's true.""" start="01:03:48.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Okay. Next question. What about rewriting""" start="01:03:51.720" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Emacs in Rust? Use Guile instead of Elisp.""" start="01:03:54.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Multi-threaded Emacs. Make Emacs prettier and""" start="01:03:57.260" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""shiny. And of course, same defaults.""" start="01:03:59.580" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Just kidding. We are spoiled children because""" start="01:04:02.220" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you and Eli, Lars, and etc do an impressive""" start="01:04:04.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""work. I live in Emacs since 2001.""" start="01:04:08.420" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Thanks. That was a good 1.""" start="01:04:11.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Sane defaults. Okay, Well,""" start="01:04:14.220" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""thank you. Thanks for that comment.""" start="01:04:18.900" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""That made me chuckle. Next question by the""" start="01:04:20.580" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""same person, I assume.""" start="01:04:23.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""The only downside I see with copyright""" start="01:04:24.520" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""assignment is that 1 has to disclose their""" start="01:04:26.580" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""real identity. Would it be a possibility to""" start="01:04:28.900" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""assign a copyright under a nickname?""" start="01:04:31.240" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Yeah, you don't have to say a real name.""" start="01:04:33.160" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Just register some pseudonym.""" start="01:04:34.840" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""The FSF does need your real name,""" start="01:04:37.360" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""but that's kept private only.""" start="01:04:39.440" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So feel free to reach out to assign at""" start="01:04:41.500" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""gnu.org and ask more about that.""" start="01:04:45.920" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Right. All right, next question.""" start="01:04:49.860" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Do you think it is possible to reach an""" start="01:04:51.820" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""agreement on sane defaults for better""" start="01:04:53.400" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""out-of-the-box experience?""" start="01:04:55.240" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Yeah, so your sane is not my sane""" start="01:04:57.800" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""necessarily. So that's the fundamental""" start="01:05:00.060" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""problem that we're discussing here.""" start="01:05:01.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I think it's a social,""" start="01:05:02.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""not a technical problem.""" start="01:05:03.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""We do change defaults sometimes,""" start="01:05:05.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""but I mean, there is also some staying power.""" start="01:05:07.640" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So it's understandable that,""" start="01:05:09.880" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you know, it's, we can't just change them""" start="01:05:12.260" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""willy nilly and then flip flop between,""" start="01:05:13.940" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you know, 1 or the other kind of thing.""" start="01:05:15.920" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So it does take a little bit more time.""" start="01:05:18.340" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""But yeah, sure, we can.""" start="01:05:20.060" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""We do change defaults at times.""" start="01:05:23.000" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""But it's perhaps more slower than what some""" start="01:05:26.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""people would prefer, for sure.""" start="01:05:29.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So that's, yeah. Right,""" start="01:05:31.640" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""all right. We have 2 more questions.""" start="01:05:36.000" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""So will XWidgets have a future?""" start="01:05:37.920" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Seeing the new bugs popping up in the latest""" start="01:05:40.120" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""XWidget dev. Not sure if there was the rest""" start="01:05:42.740" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""of the question, But on XWidgets,""" start="01:05:45.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""can you tell us a little more?""" start="01:05:46.640" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I'm not really following now.""" start="01:05:48.740" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I mean, I'm not seeing a lot of development""" start="01:05:50.580" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""on XWidgets currently.""" start="01:05:52.500" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Some people have done work in fixing up a few""" start="01:05:54.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""bugs, but I think that feature really needs""" start="01:05:57.100" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""more love. So I think we need,""" start="01:06:00.380" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""you know, help is welcome,""" start="01:06:02.180" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""patch is welcome. That's what I can say about""" start="01:06:03.600" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""that. All right, and our final question of""" start="01:06:05.920" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""the day. Have you voted for Emacs as the""" start="01:06:11.180" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""software of the year on the Tuxes by Jupyter""" start="01:06:13.140" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Broadcasting? I did because Emacs 29 is""" start="01:06:15.140" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""great. Thank you. Okay,""" start="01:06:17.480" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""well, good job voting.""" start="01:06:19.300" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I didn't know, I don't know what Tuxy is on""" start="01:06:20.580" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Jupyter broadcasting, but look it up and go""" start="01:06:22.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""vote. So I wish I could tell you,""" start="01:06:25.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""I assume with Tux, it might be something""" start="01:06:28.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""related to Linux, but that's as much as I can""" start="01:06:29.500" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""say. All right, well, Stefan,""" start="01:06:32.900" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""thank you so much for taking the time not""" start="01:06:34.960" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""only to do a wonderful presentation,""" start="01:06:36.600" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""but also for answering all the questions of""" start="01:06:38.000" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""the community. Do you have anything else to""" start="01:06:39.640" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""add? Just really thanks for all the questions""" start="01:06:41.240" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""and thanks for staying.""" start="01:06:45.360" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""It's been a long day, a long conference,""" start="01:06:47.780" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""so thanks for staying and listening to my""" start="01:06:49.600" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""talk as well. Really appreciate it.""" start="01:06:51.180" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Appreciate the good work you guys are doing""" start="01:06:52.540" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""behind the scenes, organizing,""" start="01:06:54.280" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""setting everything up.""" start="01:06:55.520" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""And really humbled to be a part of this""" start="01:06:57.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""community. So thank you all.""" start="01:07:00.420" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""Well I can assure you that no 1 either in the""" start="01:07:02.680" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""organization team or the people watching now""" start="01:07:05.860" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""felt like it was tiring to stay and listen to""" start="01:07:08.040" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] +[[!template text="""your answers. So thank you so much Stefan.""" start="01:07:10.900" video="mainVideo-core" id="subtitle"]] + +Questions or comments? Please e-mail [emacsconf-org-private@gnu.org](mailto:emacsconf-org-private@gnu.org?subject=Comment%20for%20EmacsConf%202023%20core%3A%20Emacs%20core%20development%3A%20how%20it%20works) + + +<!-- End of emacsconf-publish-after-page --> |