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diff --git a/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-voice--enhancing-productivity-with-voice-computing--blaine-mooers--answers.vtt b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-voice--enhancing-productivity-with-voice-computing--blaine-mooers--answers.vtt new file mode 100644 index 00000000..034faf8b --- /dev/null +++ b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-voice--enhancing-productivity-with-voice-computing--blaine-mooers--answers.vtt @@ -0,0 +1,3361 @@ +WEBVTT + + +00:00:00.480 --> 00:00:00.980 +[Speaker 0]: Dictation. + +00:00:06.020 --> 00:00:06.520 +[Speaker 1]: Right. All right I think we are live now. + +00:00:08.980 --> 00:00:09.179 +The stream is here. So folks if you would + +00:00:11.320 --> 00:00:11.820 +please post your questions on the pad and + +00:00:13.259 --> 00:00:13.759 +we'll take them up here. + +00:00:20.500 --> 00:00:21.000 +[Speaker 0]: Boy so I don't have myself set up with the + +00:00:25.140 --> 00:00:25.279 +[Speaker 1]: Oh, I can read the questions to you if you + +00:00:26.939 --> 00:00:27.439 +[Speaker 0]: pad. That would be fantastic. + +00:00:27.900 --> 00:00:28.400 +Thank you. + +00:00:28.779 --> 00:00:29.220 +[Speaker 1]: would prefer that. Sure. + +00:00:29.220 --> 00:00:29.720 +Thanks. + +00:00:58.380 --> 00:00:58.500 +[Speaker 0]: Well, for the purpose of breaking the ice a + +00:01:01.400 --> 00:01:01.620 +little bit, I can provide a live + +00:01:03.840 --> 00:01:04.340 +demonstration of the use of this Voice In + +00:01:06.300 --> 00:01:06.800 +plugin for Google Chrome. + +00:01:11.080 --> 00:01:11.580 +So I have, let's see, say new sentence. + +00:01:20.400 --> 00:01:20.900 +I'm on a website that is called 750 words. + +00:01:25.080 --> 00:01:25.520 +It provides a text area where without any + +00:01:30.580 --> 00:01:30.760 +other distracting icons for the purpose of + +00:01:34.040 --> 00:01:34.200 +writing and I'm using it for the purpose of + +00:01:38.680 --> 00:01:38.960 +capturing my words that I'm dictating and I + +00:01:42.979 --> 00:01:43.420 +have enabled the Voice In plugin by hitting + +00:01:48.280 --> 00:01:48.780 +the option L command. New sentence. + +00:01:54.479 --> 00:01:54.960 +So it interpreted that command new sentence + +00:01:56.260 --> 00:01:56.760 +even though I didn't pronounce it correctly, + +00:01:59.440 --> 00:01:59.820 +which is a pretty good demonstration of its + +00:02:00.920 --> 00:02:01.420 +accuracy. New sentence. + +00:02:06.420 --> 00:02:06.820 +Oops, that didn't work. + +00:02:15.040 --> 00:02:15.200 +Undo. New sentence. So new sentence is a + +00:02:16.040 --> 00:02:16.540 +combination of 2 commands, + +00:02:23.820 --> 00:02:24.080 +period and new line. So I've found it more + +00:02:25.840 --> 00:02:26.260 +convenient just to say new sentence than + +00:02:28.440 --> 00:02:28.940 +having to say period and new line. + +00:02:33.900 --> 00:02:34.220 +You can see that it's able to keep up with + +00:02:41.840 --> 00:02:42.340 +most of my speech, and it has to interpret + +00:02:44.760 --> 00:02:45.140 +the sounds that I'm making and convert those + +00:02:47.600 --> 00:02:47.860 +into words, so there's always going to be a + +00:02:59.580 --> 00:03:00.080 +lag. New sentence. But I've found that I can + +00:03:02.720 --> 00:03:03.220 +generate about 2,000, up to 2,000 + +00:03:07.040 --> 00:03:07.540 +words an hour as I gather my thoughts and + +00:03:10.960 --> 00:03:11.460 +talk in my rather slow fashion of speaking. + +00:03:15.860 --> 00:03:16.220 +New sentence, if you're a really fast + +00:03:18.560 --> 00:03:19.060 +speaker, it might have trouble keeping up. + +00:03:30.860 --> 00:03:31.080 +New sentence. I like to write When I'm using + +00:03:34.360 --> 00:03:34.860 +the keyboard with 1 sentence per line, + +00:03:38.520 --> 00:03:39.020 +so that when I copy my text and paste it into + +00:03:43.680 --> 00:03:43.840 +Emacs, for example, I can resort the + +00:03:47.300 --> 00:03:47.600 +sentences very easily by just selecting 1 + +00:03:50.600 --> 00:03:51.100 +line at a time. I like to keep the sentences + +00:03:53.480 --> 00:03:53.980 +unwrapped in that fashion because that + +00:03:56.320 --> 00:03:56.820 +greatly eases the rewriting phase. + +00:04:01.120 --> 00:04:01.580 +And I'm almost have sort of a hybrid reverse + +00:04:03.160 --> 00:04:03.660 +outlining approach by doing that. + +00:04:14.340 --> 00:04:14.680 +New sentence. Looks like I have gotten ahead + +00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:18.579 +of it a bit and it has not kept up. + +00:04:21.560 --> 00:04:22.060 +But generally, it does keep up pretty well. + +00:04:26.180 --> 00:04:26.680 +[Speaker 1]: Nice. Thanks for the demo. + +00:04:30.380 --> 00:04:30.880 +Let's see. I think we have. + +00:04:31.480 --> 00:04:31.980 +Yeah, sorry. + +00:04:33.520 --> 00:04:34.020 +[Speaker 0]: You're welcome. Go ahead. + +00:04:42.380 --> 00:04:42.880 +You can see that it has this EN means English + +00:04:46.880 --> 00:04:47.180 +and then dash US. There's actually about 40 + +00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:48.500 +languages that it supports, + +00:04:52.280 --> 00:04:52.720 +including several variants of German and + +00:04:54.640 --> 00:04:55.140 +about a dozen English dialects. + +00:05:05.200 --> 00:05:05.380 +[Speaker 1]: Nice. Let's see, I think we have some + +00:05:06.860 --> 00:05:07.360 +comments and questions trickling in. + +00:05:11.160 --> 00:05:11.320 +So someone is saying that there is a text to + +00:05:14.700 --> 00:05:15.200 +command application or utility called Clipia, + +00:05:19.395 --> 00:05:19.472 +C-L-I-P-I-A, that they think is awesome. + +00:05:19.860 --> 00:05:20.360 +Clipia that they think is awesome. + +00:05:24.960 --> 00:05:25.460 +And someone else is also saying that Sox, + +00:05:27.180 --> 00:05:27.680 +S-O-X is another good alternative. + +00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:34.920 +[Speaker 0]: I've not explored those yet. + +00:05:36.740 --> 00:05:37.240 +So thank you very much for the suggestions. + +00:05:42.700 --> 00:05:43.000 +[Speaker 1]: So I'll... I just dropped a link to the pad + +00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:45.520 +page here in the chat and on the big blue + +00:05:47.320 --> 00:05:47.820 +button if you'd like to open that up as well. + +00:05:50.280 --> 00:05:50.460 +But I'll continue reading the comments and + +00:05:54.340 --> 00:05:54.640 +questions. So the first question, + +00:05:56.420 --> 00:05:56.920 +I guess, is that could you comment on how + +00:06:01.800 --> 00:06:02.080 +speaking versus typing affects your logic or + +00:06:03.260 --> 00:06:03.760 +the content, quote unquote, + +00:06:05.020 --> 00:06:05.520 +that you write? + +00:06:10.320 --> 00:06:10.820 +[Speaker 0]: I find that this is like the difference + +00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:16.080 +between writing your thoughts down on a blank + +00:06:18.640 --> 00:06:19.140 +piece of printer paper versus paper bound + +00:06:21.100 --> 00:06:21.600 +with a leather notebook. + +00:06:24.300 --> 00:06:24.800 +I don't think there's any real difference. + +00:06:27.980 --> 00:06:28.380 +I know that some people believe there is a + +00:06:29.540 --> 00:06:30.040 +solid certain difference, + +00:06:32.580 --> 00:06:32.980 +But this is for the purpose, + +00:06:34.540 --> 00:06:35.040 +I'm using this for the purpose of generating + +00:06:40.340 --> 00:06:40.720 +the first draft because my skills with using + +00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:44.440 +my voice to edit my text is still not very + +00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:46.740 +well developed. I'm still more efficient + +00:06:49.120 --> 00:06:49.620 +using the keyboard for that stage. + +00:06:52.200 --> 00:06:52.700 +So the hardest part about writing generally + +00:06:55.160 --> 00:06:55.660 +is getting the first crappy draft written. + +00:07:00.040 --> 00:07:00.160 +And so I have found that dictation is + +00:07:01.480 --> 00:07:01.980 +perfectly fine for that phase. + +00:07:07.060 --> 00:07:07.200 +And I find it actually very conducive for + +00:07:09.480 --> 00:07:09.980 +just getting the text out. + +00:07:13.500 --> 00:07:13.680 +The biggest problem that most of us have is + +00:07:15.080 --> 00:07:15.580 +applying our internal editor. + +00:07:20.280 --> 00:07:20.460 +And that inhibits us from generating words in + +00:07:21.600 --> 00:07:22.100 +a free-flowing fashion. + +00:07:26.000 --> 00:07:26.500 +So I generally do my generative writing. + +00:07:28.740 --> 00:07:28.940 +So actually I divide my writing into 2 + +00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:30.740 +categories, generative writing, + +00:07:32.320 --> 00:07:32.820 +generating the first crappy draft, + +00:07:35.920 --> 00:07:36.300 +and then rewriting. Rewriting is probably 80, + +00:07:38.520 --> 00:07:39.020 +90% of writing where you go back and rework + +00:07:40.600 --> 00:07:41.100 +the order of the sentences, + +00:07:43.840 --> 00:07:43.980 +order of paragraphs, the order of words in a + +00:07:44.700 --> 00:07:45.060 +sentence and so forth. + +00:07:47.540 --> 00:07:47.860 +The really hard work. That's best done later + +00:07:49.740 --> 00:07:50.240 +in the day when I'm more awake. + +00:07:52.880 --> 00:07:52.960 +I do my general writing first thing in the + +00:07:55.320 --> 00:07:55.820 +morning when I feel horrible. + +00:07:59.440 --> 00:07:59.940 +I'm not very alert. That's when my internal + +00:08:03.340 --> 00:08:03.700 +editor is not very awake and I can get more + +00:08:05.760 --> 00:08:06.260 +words out, more words past that gatekeeper. + +00:08:09.280 --> 00:08:09.480 +And so I can do this sitting down, + +00:08:10.640 --> 00:08:10.920 +I can do this standing up, + +00:08:12.800 --> 00:08:13.180 +I can do this 20 feet away from my computer + +00:08:15.440 --> 00:08:15.600 +looking out the window to give my eyes a + +00:08:19.540 --> 00:08:20.040 +break. So I find it's actually very enjoyable + +00:08:21.440 --> 00:08:21.940 +to use it in this fashion. + +00:08:29.640 --> 00:08:30.140 +And the downside is that I wind up generating + +00:08:32.720 --> 00:08:32.919 +3 times as much text, and that makes for 3 + +00:08:35.140 --> 00:08:35.640 +times as much work when it comes to rewriting + +00:08:39.780 --> 00:08:39.940 +the text. And that means I'm using the + +00:08:45.040 --> 00:08:45.200 +keyboard a lot later on in the day and I + +00:08:47.720 --> 00:08:47.920 +haven't made any progress on recovering from + +00:08:49.760 --> 00:08:50.260 +my own repetitive stress injury. + +00:08:56.880 --> 00:08:57.240 +I hope that I will add the use of voice + +00:08:59.720 --> 00:09:00.220 +commands, speech to commands, + +00:09:02.800 --> 00:09:03.300 +for editing the text in the future. + +00:09:06.880 --> 00:09:07.040 +And I'll eventually give my hands more of a + +00:09:07.040 --> 00:09:07.540 +break. + +00:09:12.280 --> 00:09:12.600 +[Speaker 1]: Right. Thanks. Yeah, that sounds like a nice + +00:09:15.360 --> 00:09:15.640 +flow of sort of being able to get your words + +00:09:18.740 --> 00:09:18.940 +out while your internal editor is still not + +00:09:21.220 --> 00:09:21.720 +inhibiting things. And then later in the day + +00:09:25.320 --> 00:09:25.520 +or days, get back to the actual rewriting and + +00:09:25.520 --> 00:09:26.020 +editing. + +00:09:31.320 --> 00:09:31.720 +[Speaker 0]: Cool. So this allows you to actually separate + +00:09:33.640 --> 00:09:34.140 +those 2 activities, not only by time. + +00:09:36.840 --> 00:09:37.200 +So many professional writers will spend + +00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:39.140 +several hours in the morning doing the + +00:09:41.040 --> 00:09:41.120 +generative part and then they'll spend the + +00:09:41.920 --> 00:09:42.420 +rest of the day rewriting. + +00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:46.500 +So they have separated those 2 activities + +00:09:49.340 --> 00:09:49.540 +temporally. What most people actually do is, + +00:09:51.540 --> 00:09:51.700 +you know, they do the generative part and + +00:09:53.300 --> 00:09:53.560 +then they write 1 sentence and they apply + +00:09:55.460 --> 00:09:55.640 +that internal editor right away because they + +00:09:57.720 --> 00:09:58.220 +want to write the first draft in a perfect, + +00:10:02.400 --> 00:10:02.560 +as a perfect version as the final draft And + +00:10:03.840 --> 00:10:04.340 +that slows them down dramatically. + +00:10:08.160 --> 00:10:08.400 +But this also allows you to separate these 2 + +00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:10.820 +activities in terms of modality. + +00:10:13.940 --> 00:10:14.120 +You're going to do the generative writing by + +00:10:16.560 --> 00:10:17.060 +voice and the rewriting by keyboard. + +00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:22.480 +So I think this is 1 way that many people can + +00:10:26.040 --> 00:10:26.540 +get into using speech to text in a productive + +00:10:26.640 --> 00:10:27.140 +way. + +00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:30.980 +[Speaker 1]: Nice. Yeah, that sounds great. + +00:10:33.940 --> 00:10:34.200 +Let's see. I think we have about 3 or 4 + +00:10:37.840 --> 00:10:37.960 +minutes live. So I think we have time for at + +00:10:38.560 --> 00:10:39.060 +least another question. + +00:10:41.920 --> 00:10:42.180 +Have you tried the chat GPT voice chat + +00:10:44.540 --> 00:10:44.760 +interface? And if so, how has been your + +00:10:47.020 --> 00:10:47.180 +experience of it? As someone experienced with + +00:10:48.640 --> 00:10:48.860 +voice control, interested to hear your + +00:10:51.940 --> 00:10:52.180 +thoughts, performance relative to the free + +00:10:52.960 --> 00:10:53.460 +software tools in particular? + +00:10:57.180 --> 00:10:57.380 +[Speaker 0]: I don't have much experience with that + +00:11:01.320 --> 00:11:01.500 +particular software. I have used Whisper a + +00:11:03.400 --> 00:11:03.900 +little bit. And so that's related. + +00:11:10.260 --> 00:11:10.460 +And of course you have this problem of lag so + +00:11:12.800 --> 00:11:13.300 +I find that it's a whisper is good for + +00:11:16.380 --> 00:11:16.560 +spitting out a sentence you know maybe for a + +00:11:20.160 --> 00:11:20.660 +doc string in a programming file. + +00:11:26.060 --> 00:11:26.260 +But I find that it's very prone to + +00:11:30.060 --> 00:11:30.300 +hallucinations. And I find myself spending + +00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:33.220 +half my time deleting the hallucinations, + +00:11:38.700 --> 00:11:38.860 +I feel like the net gain is diminished as a + +00:11:41.580 --> 00:11:41.720 +result. There's not much of a net gain in + +00:11:43.340 --> 00:11:43.820 +terms of what I'm getting out of it. + +00:11:45.800 --> 00:11:45.980 +Whereas I really appreciate the high level of + +00:11:48.780 --> 00:11:49.280 +accuracy that I'm getting from voice-in. + +00:11:53.400 --> 00:11:53.900 +I would use Talon Voice for dictation, + +00:11:56.680 --> 00:11:57.180 +but at this point, there's a significant + +00:12:00.440 --> 00:12:00.740 +difference between the level of accuracy of + +00:12:02.040 --> 00:12:02.540 +voice-in versus Talon voice. + +00:12:06.260 --> 00:12:06.560 +It's large enough of a difference that I'll + +00:12:08.860 --> 00:12:09.020 +probably use voice-in for a while until I can + +00:12:12.700 --> 00:12:13.140 +figure out how to get town voice to generate + +00:12:15.080 --> 00:12:15.580 +more accurate text. + +00:12:25.400 --> 00:12:25.680 +[Speaker 1]: Cool. Thank you. I think we have at least + +00:12:26.580 --> 00:12:26.940 +another 2 or 3 minutes. + +00:12:29.100 --> 00:12:29.380 +So if folks have any other questions Please + +00:12:31.080 --> 00:12:31.400 +feel free to post them on the pad and I'll + +00:12:32.560 --> 00:12:33.060 +check IRC now as well. + +00:12:44.340 --> 00:12:44.840 +Right, so I see 1 question on IRC asking, + +00:12:47.080 --> 00:12:47.360 +Are any of these voice command slash + +00:12:49.600 --> 00:12:50.100 +dictating dictation tools free Libre + +00:12:52.260 --> 00:12:52.760 +software? They cannot find that information + +00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:55.080 +Which I think is part of it. + +00:12:55.320 --> 00:12:55.820 +You just mentioned + +00:12:57.280 --> 00:12:57.780 +[Speaker 0]: the voice in software. + +00:13:03.260 --> 00:13:03.760 +There's It's a freemium so The answer is no + +00:13:05.640 --> 00:13:06.140 +To be able to add the commands, + +00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:09.160 +the custom commands, you have to pay $48 a + +00:13:12.040 --> 00:13:12.540 +year. The Talon Voice software is free. + +00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:20.320 +And the only limitation there is access to + +00:13:23.560 --> 00:13:23.820 +the language model. If you want to get the + +00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:26.880 +beta version, you need to subscribe to + +00:13:30.820 --> 00:13:31.320 +Patreon to help support the developer. + +00:13:36.180 --> 00:13:36.460 +And I found, I did do that and I really + +00:13:37.400 --> 00:13:37.900 +didn't find much of an improvement. + +00:13:43.620 --> 00:13:43.780 +So I really don't intend to do that in the + +00:13:47.100 --> 00:13:47.600 +future. But otherwise, + +00:13:50.680 --> 00:13:51.180 +Town Voice, everything is open and free, + +00:13:54.380 --> 00:13:54.880 +and the Slack community is incredibly + +00:13:58.340 --> 00:13:58.820 +welcoming. The parallels with the Emacs + +00:14:00.060 --> 00:14:00.560 +community are pretty striking. + +00:14:09.520 --> 00:14:09.720 +[Speaker 1]: Excellent, thank you. Okay, + +00:14:11.800 --> 00:14:11.980 +I think we have about another minute on the + +00:14:13.780 --> 00:14:13.980 +live stream, but I believe the big blue + +00:14:16.560 --> 00:14:16.920 +button room here is open and will be open, + +00:14:19.860 --> 00:14:20.340 +So if folks want to join, + +00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:22.120 +if Blaine maybe has a couple of extra + +00:14:24.680 --> 00:14:24.840 +minutes. Awesome. Yeah, + +00:14:26.580 --> 00:14:26.760 +then you're welcome to join and chat with + +00:14:28.980 --> 00:14:29.480 +Blaine and ask any further questions or just + +00:14:30.060 --> 00:14:30.560 +do general chatting. Chatting. + +00:14:44.020 --> 00:14:44.380 +[Speaker 0]: So I see a question. How good is Talon + +00:14:53.040 --> 00:14:53.520 +compared to Whisper? So with Talon, + +00:14:55.380 --> 00:14:55.880 +I find that the first part of the sentence + +00:15:00.620 --> 00:15:00.820 +will be fairly accurate and then when I'm + +00:15:03.480 --> 00:15:03.980 +doing dictation And then towards the end, + +00:15:05.640 --> 00:15:06.140 +the errors start to accumulate. + +00:15:09.520 --> 00:15:09.720 +So in general, I think it's error rate is + +00:15:12.880 --> 00:15:13.100 +about 5 words out of a hundred or so will be + +00:15:17.560 --> 00:15:18.040 +wrong. And whisper, Whisper is wonderful + +00:15:21.000 --> 00:15:21.500 +because it will insert punctuation for you. + +00:15:26.120 --> 00:15:26.320 +But I guess its errors are longer and that + +00:15:28.740 --> 00:15:29.240 +it'll hallucinate full sentences for you. + +00:15:35.460 --> 00:15:35.960 +So they both have significant error rates. + +00:15:37.280 --> 00:15:37.780 +They're just different kinds of errors. + +00:15:42.340 --> 00:15:42.840 +[Speaker 1]: Interesting. + +00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:49.500 +[Speaker 0]: Hopefully both will improve over time. + +00:15:50.740 --> 00:15:51.240 +Right. + +00:16:04.620 --> 00:16:05.120 +Let's see. There's a question. + +00:16:09.060 --> 00:16:09.560 +Are the green block the author for this talk? + +00:16:13.380 --> 00:16:13.880 +Not sure what that question means. + +00:16:19.180 --> 00:16:19.300 +[Speaker 1]: Well, there is a green block of text that's I + +00:16:22.540 --> 00:16:23.040 +think being generated from voice to text, + +00:16:25.560 --> 00:16:25.680 +speech to text. At the top of the pad, + +00:16:26.500 --> 00:16:27.000 +I think that's the question. + +00:16:40.060 --> 00:16:40.280 +[Speaker 0]: So I have this Voicens software operating on + +00:16:43.080 --> 00:16:43.580 +this GitHub, on this 750words.com + +00:16:51.960 --> 00:16:52.120 +site where I do my generative writing at the + +00:16:57.340 --> 00:16:57.720 +start of the day. And it just provides a text + +00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:00.100 +area that's free of distractions. + +00:17:03.220 --> 00:17:03.480 +And you can see the text that's being + +00:17:08.440 --> 00:17:08.540 +recorded as I talk. I haven't been saying the + +00:17:12.440 --> 00:17:12.700 +command new sentence, so there isn't any + +00:17:15.980 --> 00:17:16.480 +punctuation over our discourse. + +00:17:24.380 --> 00:17:24.880 +1 thing that I do at the start of the day is + +00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:27.940 +I like to write in LaTeX. + +00:17:33.600 --> 00:17:34.100 +Ultimately, that's how I store my writing. + +00:17:37.500 --> 00:17:38.000 +So new sentence, new sentence. + +00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:52.180 +See, insert start day. + +00:17:58.960 --> 00:17:59.460 +So This is an example of a chunk of LaTeX + +00:18:02.620 --> 00:18:03.120 +code. So I have some reflections on, + +00:18:04.640 --> 00:18:04.920 +you know, what did I wake up this morning? + +00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:08.160 +And how do I feel? I have reflections on the + +00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:10.840 +prior day in terms of what did I get done + +00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:12.440 +yesterday? Do I remember what I did + +00:18:14.140 --> 00:18:14.640 +yesterday? What happened last night? + +00:18:16.940 --> 00:18:17.440 +Focus of today. What's to be done today? + +00:18:23.180 --> 00:18:23.680 +And so on. So I actually, + +00:18:24.840 --> 00:18:25.340 +I think I have more down here. + +00:18:31.420 --> 00:18:31.680 +Then I've set up these lists so that I can + +00:18:33.760 --> 00:18:34.260 +expand them easily. If I say item, + +00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:40.900 +then the cursor shows up at the start of an + +00:18:45.600 --> 00:18:46.100 +item. And I have it coded so that that new + +00:18:48.700 --> 00:18:49.200 +phrase that I speak will start with a capital + +00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:52.980 +letter. As you can see, + +00:18:54.520 --> 00:18:55.020 +so capitalize the word and. + +00:19:02.860 --> 00:19:03.360 +So in spite of its rather limited command + +00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:06.380 +syntax, There's some, it's enough to get + +00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:08.400 +started and maybe in the future, + +00:19:09.360 --> 00:19:09.860 +they'll add more features. + +00:19:14.540 --> 00:19:15.040 +[Speaker 1]: Cool, that's neat. + +00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:21.940 +[Speaker 0]: So I think this is very helpful for, + +00:19:28.840 --> 00:19:29.040 +you know, doing things like expanding the + +00:19:32.780 --> 00:19:32.980 +names of people. So you can do set up + +00:19:36.100 --> 00:19:36.600 +commands like expand the name of a colleague + +00:19:40.520 --> 00:19:40.800 +to go from their first name to their full + +00:19:42.900 --> 00:19:43.260 +name with a proper spelling of their last + +00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:45.360 +name, which, you know, + +00:19:47.420 --> 00:19:47.640 +you can wind up spending a lot of time trying + +00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:53.640 +to look that up. And so this voice in with + +00:19:57.560 --> 00:19:57.880 +the custom commands enables you to store hard + +00:19:59.540 --> 00:20:00.040 +to remember information like that. + +00:20:08.040 --> 00:20:08.540 +[Speaker 1]: Great. I see another question. + +00:20:11.140 --> 00:20:11.580 +How good is Talon compared to Whisper? + +00:20:13.140 --> 00:20:13.480 +I think you might have answered that already, + +00:20:14.380 --> 00:20:14.880 +at least partially, but... + +00:20:19.860 --> 00:20:20.080 +[Speaker 0]: Right, yeah. I talked about how it seems that + +00:20:22.580 --> 00:20:23.080 +Whisperer will carry out hallucinations, + +00:20:26.280 --> 00:20:26.780 +so it will generate long tracks of error, + +00:20:30.340 --> 00:20:30.580 +whereas Talon will tend to generate more + +00:20:31.960 --> 00:20:32.460 +errors towards the ends of sentences, + +00:20:36.820 --> 00:20:36.960 +in my experience. And the errors are + +00:20:37.960 --> 00:20:38.460 +generally shorter in extent. + +00:20:42.180 --> 00:20:42.680 +It doesn't hallucinate for long tracks. + +00:20:50.660 --> 00:20:51.040 +[Speaker 1]: Great. Okay, I think that's all the questions + +00:20:51.760 --> 00:20:52.260 +that we have on the pad. + +00:20:54.720 --> 00:20:55.020 +If folks want to join here on Big Blue Button + +00:20:56.680 --> 00:20:57.180 +for a few minutes and chat with Blaine, + +00:21:00.260 --> 00:21:00.480 +that also works. Let's see, + +00:21:02.080 --> 00:21:02.240 +I'm probably going to have to drop in a few + +00:21:03.900 --> 00:21:04.400 +minutes to catch the next speaker. + +00:21:07.860 --> 00:21:08.100 +But many thanks, Blaine, + +00:21:09.520 --> 00:21:09.900 +for a great talk and for the interesting + +00:21:11.180 --> 00:21:11.680 +demos and the question and answer. + +00:21:14.700 --> 00:21:15.200 +[Speaker 0]: Thank you very much for hosting this. + +00:21:16.640 --> 00:21:17.140 +[Speaker 1]: I appreciate it. glad to have you. + +00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:25.960 +[Speaker 0]: Cheers, Yeah, this is really amazing to hold + +00:21:28.740 --> 00:21:29.020 +this conference with people from all around + +00:21:34.660 --> 00:21:34.940 +the world connected together through web + +00:21:34.940 --> 00:21:35.440 +browsers. + +00:21:41.020 --> 00:21:41.260 +[Speaker 1]: Yeah, it's very neat what technology can do + +00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:42.900 +if and when it's working correctly. + +00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:47.860 +[Speaker 0]: I know it can be a little frustrating at + +00:21:48.760 --> 00:21:49.120 +times, but when it's working, + +00:21:54.740 --> 00:21:55.240 +it's wonderful. Yep. + +NOTE Start of section to review + +00:21:59.540 --> 00:21:59.700 +[Speaker 2]: Good purpose of computers is all the + +00:22:01.100 --> 00:22:01.600 +computers run the same code, + +00:22:03.460 --> 00:22:03.860 +so that people, you know, + +00:22:05.740 --> 00:22:06.240 +a lot of people work on the same thing and + +00:22:08.360 --> 00:22:08.860 +build upon each other's works. + +00:22:16.460 --> 00:22:16.960 +For journaling I found 1 good compromise + +00:22:18.204 --> 00:22:18.428 +between editing and stream-of-thought + +00:22:19.548 --> 00:22:19.772 +journaling. 1 good compromise between editing + +00:22:20.680 --> 00:22:21.180 +and stream of thought journaling. + +00:22:23.940 --> 00:22:24.120 +1 good compromise between editing and being + +00:22:26.980 --> 00:22:27.480 +able to do it again and just kind of helps me + +00:22:31.160 --> 00:22:31.320 +do my thoughts even when I do it is when you + +00:22:33.180 --> 00:22:33.340 +do org mode and you have the bullets it kind + +00:22:35.280 --> 00:22:35.680 +of allows you to naturally chart your + +00:22:38.800 --> 00:22:39.300 +thoughts in a way that's really easy to edit + +00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:42.380 +reorder I saw you kind of did that with your + +00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:47.280 +mac la tech macro where you said item and it + +00:22:48.680 --> 00:22:49.180 +would put you down to the next item. + +00:22:56.500 --> 00:22:57.000 +Does... How much do you do stuff like that? + +00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:01.000 +How much do you do stuff like that where you + +00:23:04.700 --> 00:23:05.200 +use like org mode headings and then you + +00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:07.200 +reorder them because like I did that with + +00:23:10.080 --> 00:23:10.460 +also the K outline from HyperBolt package for + +00:23:15.140 --> 00:23:15.420 +the for Emacs org mode later on after the + +00:23:21.880 --> 00:23:22.060 +[Speaker 0]: stream. Yes. So I could actually set this up + +00:23:26.800 --> 00:23:27.300 +so I have a lot of snippets for Org Mode. + +00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:31.160 +I could have Org Mode version of my insert + +00:23:34.600 --> 00:23:34.780 +start day snippet and carry things out in org + +00:23:39.920 --> 00:23:40.420 +mode. So I use org mode from time to time. + +00:23:43.480 --> 00:23:43.980 +I often use it for the purpose of writing + +00:23:47.780 --> 00:23:48.060 +readme files for projects to outline the + +00:23:48.700 --> 00:23:49.200 +purpose of the project, + +00:23:54.900 --> 00:23:55.320 +and say for a director that contains a coding + +00:24:01.620 --> 00:24:02.120 +project. And I think this would, + +00:24:07.300 --> 00:24:07.700 +so the main limitation of VoiceIn is it only + +00:24:10.600 --> 00:24:10.760 +works in a web page and you have to have an + +00:24:14.180 --> 00:24:14.640 +Internet connection, whereas Talon voice is + +00:24:17.220 --> 00:24:17.720 +perfect for something like org mode in that + +00:24:20.200 --> 00:24:20.460 +you don't need an internet connection and it + +00:24:22.940 --> 00:24:23.100 +will operate anywhere that you can place a + +00:24:24.840 --> 00:24:24.960 +cursor. I haven't found a place where it + +00:24:26.760 --> 00:24:27.260 +doesn't work. It's amazing. + +00:24:28.860 --> 00:24:29.360 +So as you saw my talk, + +00:24:35.400 --> 00:24:35.560 +perhaps You can run it in a terminal or a + +00:24:38.320 --> 00:24:38.760 +remote computer. You can run it in a virtual + +00:24:44.120 --> 00:24:44.380 +[Speaker 2]: Oh yeah, it's definitely. + +00:24:45.760 --> 00:24:46.260 +[Speaker 0]: machine. If you can put your cursor there, + +00:24:50.820 --> 00:24:51.320 +it will work. And so as you might imagine, + +00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:53.220 +if you use bash aliases, + +00:24:55.920 --> 00:24:56.200 +I've worked for, 1 of the first things I did + +00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:00.920 +was map Talend commands to bash aliases so + +00:25:02.800 --> 00:25:03.300 +that I can do all kinds of crazy things + +00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:04.700 +inside of the terminal. + +00:25:12.040 --> 00:25:12.260 +And there are, you know, + +00:25:15.260 --> 00:25:15.660 +there's some support already for using Talon + +00:25:20.280 --> 00:25:20.780 +in Emacs. There's some Emacs functionality + +00:25:21.960 --> 00:25:22.460 +that's built into Talon. + +00:25:25.160 --> 00:25:25.660 +So when you are in Emacs, + +00:25:27.100 --> 00:25:27.600 +there's some features that are automatically + +00:25:30.520 --> 00:25:31.020 +available. And then others have developed or + +00:25:32.320 --> 00:25:32.820 +are developing packages, + +00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:35.080 +which I don't think are available yet in + +00:25:40.240 --> 00:25:40.680 +ELPA. There's 1 that does the font locking or + +00:25:42.780 --> 00:25:43.280 +syntax highlighting of Talon files, + +00:25:46.240 --> 00:25:46.720 +and another that adds some additional + +00:25:50.380 --> 00:25:50.880 +functionality that I'm regrettably not yet + +00:25:51.440 --> 00:25:51.940 +familiar with. + +00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:55.940 +[Speaker 2]: Well, as an example with like how the + +00:25:56.760 --> 00:25:57.100 +sharding of the thoughts, + +00:25:59.800 --> 00:26:00.140 +like let's say, oh, how has my day went? + +00:26:01.980 --> 00:26:03.080 +It's went good for reasons 123, + +00:26:04.860 --> 00:26:05.740 +and bad for reasons ABC. + +00:26:07.828 --> 00:26:07.872 +And then later on, I might think, + +00:26:08.460 --> 00:26:08.860 +oh, there's an, I also, + +00:26:10.520 --> 00:26:11.780 +my day went good for reasons 456, + +00:26:14.540 --> 00:26:14.880 +then you, I can, then you jump up. + +00:26:18.520 --> 00:26:18.820 +And so the, like I found like, + +00:26:19.760 --> 00:26:20.260 +yeah, the org mode subheadings, + +00:26:21.980 --> 00:26:22.480 +because you're able to jump around, + +00:26:25.040 --> 00:26:25.540 +easily reorder them after the fact, + +00:26:32.520 --> 00:26:32.860 +the very streamlined approach to the stream + +00:26:33.620 --> 00:26:34.120 +of thought and the editing. + +00:26:38.800 --> 00:26:39.300 +[Speaker 0]: That's right, extremely powerful. + +00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:41.500 +[Speaker 2]: And even with the stream of thought, + +00:26:44.060 --> 00:26:44.480 +just because like, even when you're editing + +00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:45.380 +that in real time, like, + +00:26:47.320 --> 00:26:47.800 +oh, wait a minute, I thought of another + +00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:49.200 +reason that my day went good, + +00:26:50.640 --> 00:26:50.820 +even though I was talking about how it was + +00:26:52.760 --> 00:26:53.260 +going bad now. So you jump up. + +00:26:55.680 --> 00:26:56.180 +And then you do that. And then you have it. + +00:26:59.540 --> 00:27:00.040 +You easily summarize your thoughts and + +00:27:00.060 --> 00:27:00.560 +whatnot. + +00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:07.600 +[Speaker 0]: That's right. And I think org mode is really + +00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:12.180 +ideal for that kind of interact. + +00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:15.480 +So yeah, I see your point in terms of that + +00:27:18.760 --> 00:27:19.260 +sort of a blend of generative writing and + +00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:23.940 +editing. And it's also kind of parallel to + +00:27:27.240 --> 00:27:27.660 +mind mapping. I use this mind mapping + +00:27:32.660 --> 00:27:33.160 +software called iThoughtsX where I'll + +00:27:36.760 --> 00:27:37.260 +generate all these children items, + +00:27:40.040 --> 00:27:40.540 +and then I'll drag them around and resort + +00:27:46.680 --> 00:27:47.180 +them. And they can have children of their own + +00:27:48.940 --> 00:27:49.400 +and grandchildren and so on, + +00:27:50.800 --> 00:27:51.300 +in terms of the levels of the nodes. + +00:27:54.920 --> 00:27:55.240 +And it's pretty much the same sort of thing + +00:27:57.560 --> 00:27:57.960 +with a nested hierarchy that you can have + +00:28:02.660 --> 00:28:03.040 +with org mode. I think having several + +00:28:09.900 --> 00:28:10.120 +alternate modes or modalities of playing with + +00:28:13.100 --> 00:28:13.300 +thoughts is useful. So sometimes I'll hit a + +00:28:17.180 --> 00:28:17.680 +wall and we're just not really generating + +00:28:21.260 --> 00:28:21.760 +anything in a text mode. + +00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:25.500 +But if I switch to using the mind mapping, + +00:28:30.040 --> 00:28:30.420 +just seeing it arranged with the connecting + +00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:35.280 +lines plays on a different part of the brain, + +00:28:37.640 --> 00:28:38.140 +I think, and it can be incredibly + +00:28:40.600 --> 00:28:40.800 +stimulatory. It can stimulate a lot of new + +00:28:43.480 --> 00:28:43.780 +[Speaker 2]: That's something that I haven't messed around + +00:28:45.400 --> 00:28:45.900 +too much with is the mind mapping software, + +00:28:45.980 --> 00:28:46.480 +but... + +00:28:51.600 --> 00:28:51.760 +[Speaker 0]: thoughts. Because the closest thing that we + +00:28:56.400 --> 00:28:56.600 +have to it in Emacs is Orgrimm in the in + +00:29:00.860 --> 00:29:01.360 +terms of like the 3D visualization of with + +00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:04.220 +Orgrimm GUI or + +00:29:10.120 --> 00:29:10.620 +[Speaker 2]: UI. As well as being able to generate SVG + +00:29:12.800 --> 00:29:13.100 +diagrams and stuff like that, + +00:29:16.980 --> 00:29:17.260 +I think those 2 things would allow you stuff + +00:29:20.240 --> 00:29:20.740 +like Orgrimm or denote And then the diagrams + +00:29:23.160 --> 00:29:23.300 +would be the good ways of doing that in + +00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:25.600 +Emacs, but they don't have the mind map + +00:29:27.160 --> 00:29:27.660 +programs as well. + +00:29:30.140 --> 00:29:30.640 +[Speaker 0]: They're not as well developed. + +00:29:32.740 --> 00:29:33.240 +There are a couple mind mapping packages, + +00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:37.700 +but they're not as advanced. + +00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:42.180 +[Speaker 2]: The best ones were JavaScript web page that + +00:29:43.840 --> 00:29:44.340 +it that Emacs interacted with. + +00:29:46.180 --> 00:29:46.680 +Very well. And so they kind of, + +00:29:49.120 --> 00:29:49.620 +you know, worked around and had a little. + +00:29:51.620 --> 00:29:51.820 +Integration with the 2. + +00:29:53.420 --> 00:29:53.920 +So when you be jumping around your. + +00:29:56.200 --> 00:29:56.380 +When you'd be clicking on the web page it + +00:29:59.300 --> 00:29:59.480 +would be pointing you to different places and + +00:30:07.060 --> 00:30:07.400 +buffers okay like those are those the There's + +00:30:11.480 --> 00:30:11.680 +an like org-roam node program where it kind + +00:30:13.360 --> 00:30:13.860 +of shows the looks like a mind map. + +00:30:17.820 --> 00:30:18.040 +You can click and drag them a little bit, + +00:30:18.680 --> 00:30:19.180 +so it's a little interactive. + +00:30:27.980 --> 00:30:28.480 +[Speaker 0]: Yeah, I'm not familiar with that. + +00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:30.660 +I'll have to look into that. + +00:30:32.240 --> 00:30:32.740 +That sounds very interesting. + +00:30:36.820 --> 00:30:37.200 +[Speaker 2]: I found that I didn't know better, + +00:30:38.560 --> 00:30:39.060 +though, than Org-ROM, so it doesn't. + +00:30:43.320 --> 00:30:43.820 +[Speaker 0]: Why is that? + +00:30:47.080 --> 00:30:47.580 +[Speaker 2]: Well, 1 of the things I'm, + +00:30:51.600 --> 00:30:51.760 +I want to be able to, I don't like the + +00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:53.700 +feeling of being trapped inside org-mode + +00:30:56.040 --> 00:30:56.540 +documents. Like I want to be able to write, + +00:30:58.940 --> 00:30:59.060 +even though I don't really use Markdown and I + +00:31:00.800 --> 00:31:01.020 +like org-mode better than that. + +00:31:02.720 --> 00:31:03.220 +Like for instance, I also use the Koutline + +00:31:04.280 --> 00:31:04.780 +from the Hyperbole package. + +00:31:08.160 --> 00:31:08.360 +That's what my I got a talk on the stream of + +00:31:12.620 --> 00:31:12.700 +thought journaling for with Koutline and I + +00:31:14.060 --> 00:31:14.160 +was like, I just don't like the feeling of + +00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:18.700 +being tracked in 1 document and denote has + +00:31:21.300 --> 00:31:21.800 +the ability to it renames the file so you get + +00:31:26.020 --> 00:31:26.520 +keywords in like a PDF file so you can take + +00:31:28.100 --> 00:31:28.380 +so you can link to that with your notes + +00:31:30.540 --> 00:31:30.700 +without it all disappearing because it's not + +00:31:36.340 --> 00:31:36.440 +an org mode document. Plus the ability of + +00:31:38.520 --> 00:31:38.940 +having it run on multiple computers or with + +00:31:42.660 --> 00:31:43.160 +multiple people, the database kind of gets + +00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:46.720 +screwed up when you try running it under sync + +00:31:50.500 --> 00:31:51.000 +thing. Sync. More fragile. + +00:31:56.000 --> 00:31:56.500 +[Speaker 0]: Very interesting. Yeah. + +00:32:03.260 --> 00:32:03.680 +How far are you? So are you a regular + +00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:06.980 +practitioner of the Zettelkasten approach? + +00:32:12.180 --> 00:32:12.680 +[Speaker 2]: Trying to be. Incrementally improving it. + +00:32:16.780 --> 00:32:16.980 +I partly work too much like testing out the + +00:32:20.760 --> 00:32:21.000 +org-roam versus the notes to use it too much. + +00:32:23.300 --> 00:32:23.500 +So part of it is I just tweak with it too + +00:32:24.800 --> 00:32:25.300 +much before using it and then. + +00:32:28.740 --> 00:32:29.240 +[Speaker 0]: Oh, it's so fun to tweak it. + +00:32:32.580 --> 00:32:32.840 +[Speaker 2]: I think mostly it's as I have these tools, + +00:32:33.640 --> 00:32:34.140 +I know where they are. + +00:32:35.760 --> 00:32:35.980 +So whenever I do need them, + +00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:38.180 +I can use them, even though I don't always + +00:32:38.440 --> 00:32:38.940 +use them. + +00:32:43.680 --> 00:32:43.940 +[Speaker 0]: So I have about a thousand notes in my org + +00:32:47.720 --> 00:32:48.040 +room. Zettelkasten. I've actually, + +00:32:50.140 --> 00:32:50.320 +it's kind of cool that you can export it and + +00:32:51.460 --> 00:32:51.960 +move it into other programs. + +00:32:56.320 --> 00:32:56.520 +I have moved it to Obsidian and played with + +00:32:57.720 --> 00:32:58.180 +it in Obsidian for a while, + +00:32:59.820 --> 00:33:00.320 +maybe added to it in Obsidian, + +00:33:01.480 --> 00:33:01.980 +moved it back to Orgrim. + +00:33:07.080 --> 00:33:07.580 +But I'm not convinced. + +00:33:10.680 --> 00:33:11.180 +I mean, that I think that Nicholas Luhmann + +00:33:13.360 --> 00:33:13.700 +was very successful with it because he spent + +00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:16.420 +5 hours a day or whatever working with it. + +00:33:18.560 --> 00:33:19.060 +And I think I would have to do, + +00:33:21.180 --> 00:33:21.600 +put in a similar amount of effort to get this + +00:33:23.600 --> 00:33:24.100 +kind of benefits that he gained from it. + +00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:26.980 +I'm waiting for somebody to do a scientific + +00:33:29.200 --> 00:33:29.700 +study, controlled trials to see, + +00:33:31.720 --> 00:33:32.220 +to prove whether there's a real benefit. + +00:33:37.900 --> 00:33:38.400 +[Speaker 2]: Oh, yeah. So with the Zettelkasten, + +00:33:41.120 --> 00:33:41.320 +one of the things where you have the 1 for the + +00:33:42.180 --> 00:33:42.680 +sections, and then the 1.1, + +00:33:47.160 --> 00:33:47.480 +or you know how the notes that it does that's + +00:33:48.740 --> 00:33:49.240 +different. The denote, + +00:33:52.880 --> 00:33:53.380 +it has the ability to use a hierarchy manage, + +00:33:55.480 --> 00:33:55.640 +which Org-ROM does everything it can to + +00:33:57.380 --> 00:33:57.560 +eliminate. But you can use them both in + +00:33:59.140 --> 00:33:59.640 +tandem. They call it signatures. + +00:34:04.820 --> 00:34:05.160 +And to me, 1 of the cool features of denote + +00:34:06.820 --> 00:34:07.120 +would be being able to use like the + +00:34:09.780 --> 00:34:10.280 +signatures for the things that make sense. + +00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:13.860 +Like 1 of the ideas is if you don't exactly + +00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:15.100 +know where this is, but you know, + +00:34:15.920 --> 00:34:16.239 +it goes to the section, + +00:34:17.060 --> 00:34:17.560 +you can just use the signature. + +00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:20.080 +Maybe don't even have too much of a file + +00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:23.179 +name. Like oh, this is just another thought + +00:34:28.199 --> 00:34:28.420 +on, well you wouldn't use it for this, + +00:34:30.360 --> 00:34:30.719 +but like my day went good for reasons 1, + +00:34:33.040 --> 00:34:33.380 +2, 3, 4, 5, and you could just use the denote + +00:34:34.639 --> 00:34:34.920 +signature to do 1, 2, 3, + +00:34:37.659 --> 00:34:37.800 +4, 5, just as you have new ideas on like a + +00:34:41.840 --> 00:34:42.040 +subject, or like cars are cars are not this + +00:34:43.659 --> 00:34:44.580 +car is nice because of reasons XYZ, + +00:34:46.920 --> 00:34:47.219 +or these types of four-wheelers are nice + +00:34:48.940 --> 00:34:49.080 +because of XYZ. And you could just keep on + +00:34:50.760 --> 00:34:50.980 +doing that rather than having to get a new + +00:34:52.120 --> 00:34:52.620 +name for each 1 of those files. + +00:34:55.280 --> 00:34:55.520 +Or you could choose not to have it, + +00:34:57.780 --> 00:34:58.280 +but the ability to have it optionally in, + +00:35:01.020 --> 00:35:01.520 +to me, sounds like a really nice combo. + +00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:03.200 +Because then you + +00:35:06.140 --> 00:35:06.420 +[Speaker 0]: could read. I agree. Yeah, + +00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:09.020 +I've actually imposed a hierarchy in my + +00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:10.820 +Zettelkasten and Orgrim. + +00:35:17.680 --> 00:35:18.180 +I just, I can't imagine having random ideas. + +00:35:21.200 --> 00:35:21.700 +They need some kind of structure. + +00:35:27.500 --> 00:35:27.840 +Always have some kind of parent node to + +00:35:28.420 --> 00:35:28.920 +attach them to. + +00:35:32.740 --> 00:35:32.960 +[Speaker 2]: With the workflow I'm trying to develop with + +00:35:34.440 --> 00:35:34.840 +it, part of it is I'm just trying to optimize + +00:35:36.820 --> 00:35:37.080 +the workflow before it feels really, + +00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:38.560 +really, really good, and I don't want to + +00:35:39.720 --> 00:35:40.220 +tweak with it, or I don't know. + +00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:42.980 +Or maybe I don't always need the tool, + +00:35:45.780 --> 00:35:46.020 +but some of the distinctions it seems like + +00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:52.580 +that I want is, I want a daily journal For + +00:35:53.100 --> 00:35:53.600 +your stream of thoughts, + +00:35:56.000 --> 00:35:56.480 +then I want a separate 1 for your to do list + +00:35:57.980 --> 00:35:58.480 +because what you like. + +00:36:01.240 --> 00:36:01.440 +You want very different properties for each + +00:36:03.040 --> 00:36:03.540 +of those. Like for to-do lists, + +00:36:04.820 --> 00:36:05.320 +you want hierarchical, + +00:36:11.260 --> 00:36:11.760 +limited. But if you have more than 3 priority + +00:36:13.660 --> 00:36:13.820 +items, you don't have a priority item and + +00:36:14.820 --> 00:36:15.040 +it's not a good to-do list. + +00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:18.980 +It's just unordered thoughts. + +00:36:23.480 --> 00:36:23.680 +[Speaker 0]: it's a wishful list, because you won't get + +00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:26.500 +most of those things done beyond the first 3. + +00:36:28.180 --> 00:36:28.380 +[Speaker 2]: You're trying to- So And then when you're + +00:36:30.600 --> 00:36:31.100 +trying to do the other stuff, + +00:36:31.980 --> 00:36:32.480 +the stream of thoughts, + +00:36:34.640 --> 00:36:35.080 +all that stuff I probably don't want to go + +00:36:36.720 --> 00:36:36.900 +straight into like my Zettelkasten because + +00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:37.940 +some of those problems, + +00:36:42.660 --> 00:36:43.160 +like it's noisy, it might be redundant, + +00:36:45.300 --> 00:36:45.520 +you don't know how it fits into it because + +00:36:46.920 --> 00:36:47.080 +you haven't done that processing on it. + +00:36:47.960 --> 00:36:48.460 +This hasn't been refined. + +00:36:53.000 --> 00:36:53.140 +So, like, you don't want to refine it. + +00:36:54.960 --> 00:36:55.320 +Like, I find that spell checking is + +00:36:56.680 --> 00:36:56.920 +detrimental to me. I don't want spell + +00:36:58.520 --> 00:36:58.840 +checking. I don't want spell checking. + +00:37:00.200 --> 00:37:00.600 +I don't want syntax highlighting. + +00:37:04.040 --> 00:37:04.540 +I just want to talk or to just write. + +00:37:07.020 --> 00:37:07.520 +If I have mistakes, I can turn on that later, + +00:37:08.800 --> 00:37:09.220 +do it. Because otherwise, + +00:37:13.340 --> 00:37:13.740 +it will distract me and makes that process + +00:37:20.140 --> 00:37:20.280 +[Speaker 0]: Yep, yep, definitely interferes with the + +00:37:20.280 --> 00:37:20.780 +flow. + +00:37:24.840 --> 00:37:25.080 +[Speaker 2]: worse. So yeah, when you're so yeah when + +00:37:28.080 --> 00:37:28.440 +you're doing the getting things done like + +00:37:30.040 --> 00:37:30.240 +that's why I want them would be want would + +00:37:32.360 --> 00:37:32.600 +want them in separate files is that you want + +00:37:34.160 --> 00:37:34.660 +them like ordered, numbered lists, + +00:37:38.980 --> 00:37:39.480 +smaller. And then with the other, + +00:37:40.440 --> 00:37:40.800 +with the stream of thought, + +00:37:42.340 --> 00:37:42.840 +with journaling, you'd want it just + +00:37:45.240 --> 00:37:45.740 +unordered. Thoughts land wherever they may. + +00:37:49.140 --> 00:37:49.640 +Maybe not even like machine-generated + +00:37:51.400 --> 00:37:51.660 +timestamps, So you don't even have to worry + +00:37:52.440 --> 00:37:52.940 +about the names of it, + +00:37:55.080 --> 00:37:55.380 +as an example. So yeah, + +00:37:56.960 --> 00:37:57.160 +very different properties for what you want + +00:37:58.260 --> 00:37:58.760 +for both of those modalities. + +00:38:06.340 --> 00:38:06.440 +[Speaker 0]: So you saw, perhaps, in that snippet that I + +00:38:07.860 --> 00:38:08.360 +had that at, you know, + +00:38:10.440 --> 00:38:10.580 +working on my to-do list at the start of the + +00:38:13.080 --> 00:38:13.580 +day, but in a certain sense that is not ideal + +00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:20.820 +time. I really haven't optimized the timing + +00:38:22.640 --> 00:38:23.040 +of assembly of the to-do list, + +00:38:24.020 --> 00:38:24.520 +I think, in retrospect. + +00:38:27.540 --> 00:38:27.880 +It's just by lifelong habit. + +00:38:29.060 --> 00:38:29.560 +I do that at the beginning of the day, + +00:38:32.860 --> 00:38:33.000 +but probably would be better to do it at + +00:38:34.360 --> 00:38:34.860 +night or the night before. + +00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:38.500 +And so you sort of prime your brain to go, + +00:38:41.180 --> 00:38:41.680 +just get up and go, go after those items. + +00:38:46.360 --> 00:38:46.680 +You were, you maybe you want to revise the + +00:38:49.120 --> 00:38:49.620 +items a little bit after sleeping on it, + +00:38:52.360 --> 00:38:52.820 +but after your subconscious has worked on + +00:38:57.500 --> 00:38:57.660 +those items. Do you have a daily routine that + +00:38:59.680 --> 00:38:59.900 +you follow in terms of generating those kind + +00:39:00.020 --> 00:39:00.520 +of lists? + +00:39:05.660 --> 00:39:06.160 +[Speaker 2]: No. As I said, mostly I just got scaffolding + +00:39:08.040 --> 00:39:08.300 +for this stuff when I want to do it. + +00:39:10.520 --> 00:39:10.760 +I enjoy building the scaffolding and I know + +00:39:12.340 --> 00:39:12.600 +where the tools are when I need it. + +00:39:14.540 --> 00:39:14.760 +And I start using them when I need it, + +00:39:17.040 --> 00:39:17.540 +but I don't have it too consistent. + +00:39:29.720 --> 00:39:30.220 +[Speaker 0]: So OK, so you've looked so far at denote and + +00:39:35.300 --> 00:39:35.800 +org-roam, and you're using k-outline. + +00:39:39.520 --> 00:39:39.840 +And are there other tools that you've + +00:39:39.840 --> 00:39:40.340 +explored? + +00:39:44.380 --> 00:39:44.880 +[Speaker 2]: I've tried using whisper.el + +00:39:50.720 --> 00:39:50.920 +and nerd dictation to do What your talk was + +00:39:53.560 --> 00:39:53.760 +about? Speaking speech to text to see how + +00:39:56.720 --> 00:39:56.840 +that changes Because it does change what you + +00:40:01.020 --> 00:40:01.120 +think What you write down when you speak it + +00:40:05.080 --> 00:40:05.500 +rather than write it. Same thing as when + +00:40:07.420 --> 00:40:07.540 +you're thinking about when you eliminate the + +00:40:08.940 --> 00:40:09.440 +editing, it changes the way you write. + +00:40:11.900 --> 00:40:12.260 +When you have the spell checking, + +00:40:14.100 --> 00:40:14.340 +it changes the way you write to a much + +00:40:20.280 --> 00:40:20.600 +smaller degree. But that's the stuff I really + +00:40:23.560 --> 00:40:24.060 +haven't gotten working as well, + +00:40:25.120 --> 00:40:25.620 +or underdeveloped. + +00:40:30.160 --> 00:40:30.660 +[Speaker 0]: So the dictated text winds up, + +00:40:37.740 --> 00:40:37.900 +I'll move it in. Often I move it into on + +00:40:40.920 --> 00:40:41.200 +Overleaf, this website for a lot of tech + +00:40:44.080 --> 00:40:44.580 +documents. I have a plug-in for Rightful, + +00:40:50.520 --> 00:40:51.020 +And I use that to clean up my word choices + +00:40:56.160 --> 00:40:56.660 +and some grammar. And I use Grammarly. + +00:41:00.920 --> 00:41:01.080 +I'll copy and paste. It just depends on the + +00:41:01.680 --> 00:41:02.080 +nature of the writing, + +00:41:05.720 --> 00:41:06.220 +how serious it is, how polished it has to be. + +00:41:12.620 --> 00:41:13.080 +If I, if it's really vital, + +00:41:14.440 --> 00:41:14.800 +like for a grant application or something, + +00:41:16.880 --> 00:41:17.380 +I'll paste that into Grammarly and work on + +00:41:22.160 --> 00:41:22.540 +trying to get the writing level to the lowest + +00:41:26.100 --> 00:41:26.280 +possible grade level to make it as clear as + +00:41:30.040 --> 00:41:30.220 +possible to as wide of an audience as + +00:41:34.740 --> 00:41:34.900 +possible. 1 of the things I kind + +00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:38.500 +[Speaker 2]: of wish with all the spell checking grammarly + +00:41:40.440 --> 00:41:40.940 +is I kind of wish you could say, + +00:41:48.620 --> 00:41:49.120 +hey, what would the subtle cast in person + +00:41:52.120 --> 00:41:52.620 +think of what I wrote who what would einstein + +00:41:54.200 --> 00:41:54.400 +think of what I wrote because rather than + +00:41:57.340 --> 00:41:57.660 +just trying to make 1 uniform way of talking + +00:41:59.960 --> 00:42:00.440 +it's like people talk differently and that's + +00:42:04.080 --> 00:42:04.240 +an advantage and I can't I really wish like + +00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:07.820 +you maybe these GPT programs could do well. + +00:42:10.840 --> 00:42:11.000 +I really wish it could help you with the + +00:42:16.160 --> 00:42:16.420 +grammar, that maybe give you thoughts on what + +00:42:18.460 --> 00:42:18.720 +your notes are. What does this person think + +00:42:20.220 --> 00:42:20.380 +of your thoughts? What does this person think + +00:42:20.457 --> 00:42:20.464 +of your thoughts? Well, + +00:42:20.640 --> 00:42:20.940 +does this person think of your thoughts? + +00:42:22.280 --> 00:42:22.540 +Well, does this person think of your + +00:42:22.540 --> 00:42:23.040 +thoughts? + +00:42:27.720 --> 00:42:28.140 +[Speaker 0]: That's true. Yeah, I could probably do that + +00:42:31.560 --> 00:42:32.060 +even through chat GDP now. + +00:42:35.140 --> 00:42:35.640 +I haven't spent time trying that out. + +00:42:39.820 --> 00:42:40.320 +But I bet that capabilities are already. + +00:42:44.340 --> 00:42:44.480 +It would be nice if it was like built in to + +00:42:46.240 --> 00:42:46.740 +Emacs, right? It's a package. + +00:42:49.020 --> 00:42:49.520 +Yeah. That'd be very cool. + +00:42:52.260 --> 00:42:52.660 +[Speaker 2]: Grammarly have some sort of, + +00:42:55.040 --> 00:42:55.320 +like, the grammar where they help you the way + +00:42:57.660 --> 00:42:58.040 +you write. Like, for instance, + +00:42:59.080 --> 00:42:59.580 +removing redundant words. + +00:43:02.720 --> 00:43:03.220 +And Yeah, it's supposed to be like beyond + +00:43:04.820 --> 00:43:05.320 +just spell checking, right? + +00:43:08.240 --> 00:43:08.740 +[Speaker 0]: Right. So, and there's actually a Grammarly + +00:43:13.300 --> 00:43:13.520 +package for Emacs, and you get some of the + +00:43:14.540 --> 00:43:15.040 +functionality out of it. + +00:43:17.420 --> 00:43:17.560 +I've paid for the subscription to get the + +00:43:21.240 --> 00:43:21.460 +advanced features, but I've maybe I don't + +00:43:23.300 --> 00:43:23.800 +have my configuration set up correctly. + +00:43:27.280 --> 00:43:27.780 +I just found it was easier to copy and paste + +00:43:31.780 --> 00:43:32.280 +a paragraph at a time into the desktop + +00:43:36.460 --> 00:43:36.780 +application and it will go through and find + +00:43:38.900 --> 00:43:39.400 +those redundancies, junk English. + +00:43:48.080 --> 00:43:48.580 +[Speaker 2]: It would be really interesting trying to have + +00:43:52.640 --> 00:43:52.760 +1 of these That was my problem with a lot of + +00:43:55.840 --> 00:43:56.120 +the grammarly type Programs is I'm I want + +00:43:57.620 --> 00:43:57.900 +something that would do that like be real + +00:43:59.720 --> 00:43:59.980 +interesting seeing 1 that's like an old + +00:44:03.840 --> 00:44:03.960 +English type thing or like Lumen person where + +00:44:06.540 --> 00:44:07.040 +it's just like how does this person write and + +00:44:09.960 --> 00:44:10.160 +Because it would be it would spit out + +00:44:11.160 --> 00:44:11.660 +something a lot different. + +00:44:13.440 --> 00:44:13.680 +Just different. Like, yeah, + +00:44:14.440 --> 00:44:14.940 +you put different people. + +00:44:17.760 --> 00:44:17.900 +[Speaker 0]: Most definitely, yes. They would have a + +00:44:20.280 --> 00:44:20.740 +completely different thinking and writing + +00:44:28.740 --> 00:44:28.940 +style. And so the purpose of doing that would + +00:44:34.300 --> 00:44:34.640 +be to stimulate A new way of thinking or + +00:44:36.340 --> 00:44:36.840 +writing I guess on your part + +00:44:40.600 --> 00:44:40.960 +[Speaker 2]: the purpose of writing is to communicate It + +00:44:43.540 --> 00:44:43.740 +and writing you know 1 of the targets for + +00:44:47.020 --> 00:44:47.320 +that could be yourself so it's like I'd much + +00:44:50.380 --> 00:44:50.880 +rather have a comprehensible sentence than a + +00:44:57.500 --> 00:44:57.720 +truly correct 1. 1 of those is far more + +00:45:00.780 --> 00:45:01.280 +valuable and far more correct English or + +00:45:06.560 --> 00:45:07.060 +[Speaker 0]: Yeah, one's more effective at communicating + +00:45:08.860 --> 00:45:09.360 +to yourself. Yes. + +00:45:11.320 --> 00:45:11.720 +[Speaker 2]: language. Well, one's using the tool, + +00:45:15.300 --> 00:45:15.520 +one's the other you're trying to be used by + +00:45:19.080 --> 00:45:19.580 +the tool. And they're not the same thing. + +00:45:29.780 --> 00:45:30.280 +[Speaker 0]: That's true. Well, I view myself as being + +00:45:35.140 --> 00:45:35.640 +responsible for my writing and being the + +00:45:40.200 --> 00:45:40.520 +final judge of it and as a scientist I have + +00:45:49.060 --> 00:45:49.300 +to my mantra is it's got to be clear and then + +00:45:52.600 --> 00:45:53.100 +precise and then concise in that order. + +00:45:56.580 --> 00:45:56.760 +And I claim that, you know, + +00:45:58.440 --> 00:45:58.780 +that's the order with which I go through + +00:46:01.500 --> 00:46:01.780 +doing revisions. Clarity is, + +00:46:02.500 --> 00:46:02.880 +you know, if it's not clear, + +00:46:05.420 --> 00:46:05.600 +it's useless. It's got to be clear to me, + +00:46:08.240 --> 00:46:08.740 +but it's got to be clear to a lot of people + +00:46:10.920 --> 00:46:11.420 +for whom English is not a first language. + +00:46:15.520 --> 00:46:15.720 +And then after that, I got to worry about + +00:46:19.020 --> 00:46:19.520 +precision and then conciseness, + +00:46:24.140 --> 00:46:24.280 +but those can't be done at the expense of + +00:46:27.720 --> 00:46:28.220 +clarity. So it's quite a battle. + +00:46:32.320 --> 00:46:32.640 +[Speaker 2]: That goes back on the to-do list, + +00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:35.860 +where it's like if you have more than 3 items + +00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:39.660 +like here the purpose of doing that is to + +00:46:43.080 --> 00:46:43.580 +help or grant of a to-do list is help is to + +00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:45.680 +Have you help choose what you're going to do + +00:46:47.680 --> 00:46:47.840 +for the day. Which is why if you have more + +00:46:50.660 --> 00:46:50.860 +than 3 items, if you have 50 items on there, + +00:46:52.860 --> 00:46:53.320 +you're not going to get 50 of those items + +00:46:55.920 --> 00:46:56.040 +done. So maybe you pick the easiest ones to + +00:46:58.620 --> 00:46:59.020 +do, not necessarily the ones that you want or + +00:47:03.340 --> 00:47:03.580 +need to be done. So it's like the process of + +00:47:06.200 --> 00:47:06.380 +choosing those, like, I don't know, + +00:47:07.640 --> 00:47:08.140 +like I found that a very good rules, + +00:47:10.800 --> 00:47:11.300 +like up to 3 priority items if you, + +00:47:13.260 --> 00:47:13.440 +and then also when you look back and you see + +00:47:14.440 --> 00:47:14.940 +that you did those 3 items, + +00:47:18.460 --> 00:47:18.680 +Who cares about this? I'd rather get those 3 + +00:47:20.080 --> 00:47:20.580 +items done than any number of secondary + +00:47:20.640 --> 00:47:21.140 +tasks. + +00:47:26.320 --> 00:47:26.820 +[Speaker 0]: Yes, I, yeah, you're very, + +00:47:28.440 --> 00:47:28.940 +very right about that. + +00:47:32.380 --> 00:47:32.640 +I don't, I used to, you know, + +00:47:36.400 --> 00:47:36.900 +use a pattern of assigning letters. + +00:47:39.440 --> 00:47:39.720 +And so you have like, you know, + +00:47:41.280 --> 00:47:41.780 +based on like a hierarchy of, + +00:47:43.340 --> 00:47:43.840 +you've got the urgent and important, + +00:47:47.300 --> 00:47:47.800 +of course, that you got to deal with those. + +00:47:50.280 --> 00:47:50.780 +And then the next thing down is the important + +00:48:00.060 --> 00:48:00.300 +and so on. But I tend to just generate these + +00:48:03.600 --> 00:48:04.000 +terribly long lists that most of those items + +00:48:06.260 --> 00:48:06.760 +would go on what is known as a grass catchers + +00:48:09.180 --> 00:48:09.680 +list of things that you may get to someday, + +00:48:11.780 --> 00:48:12.280 +but there's no way you can get to them today. + +00:48:16.120 --> 00:48:16.620 +But I feel compelled, I need to capture them. + +00:48:18.260 --> 00:48:18.760 +I may want to do them eventually. + +00:48:20.920 --> 00:48:21.420 +They wind up on my list. + +00:48:24.660 --> 00:48:24.800 +[Speaker 2]: Oh yeah, my idea on that is like with a + +00:48:26.480 --> 00:48:26.980 +Zettelkasten where you have the day thoughts + +00:48:29.380 --> 00:48:29.580 +and the day journal, then you have your + +00:48:31.800 --> 00:48:32.160 +Zettelkasten which I don't think should have + +00:48:34.740 --> 00:48:34.960 +too close of a connection because one's a lot + +00:48:37.940 --> 00:48:38.440 +more, what's the word? + +00:48:40.080 --> 00:48:40.580 +[Speaker 0]: It's a knowledge base. + +00:48:43.940 --> 00:48:44.440 +[Speaker 2]: Optimized. Yes, one's more processed. + +00:48:45.280 --> 00:48:45.760 +Yeah, that's the word. + +00:48:47.040 --> 00:48:47.440 +Yeah, one's actually much more processed. + +00:48:50.220 --> 00:48:50.640 +The other is you don't want that process + +00:48:52.840 --> 00:48:53.240 +because you want it to flow from your head + +00:48:54.480 --> 00:48:54.980 +with as little friction as possible. + +00:48:59.440 --> 00:48:59.940 +The other 1 you want to be processed so that + +00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:02.120 +when you look it up and stuff like that's + +00:49:04.840 --> 00:49:05.280 +more efficient Same thing with your to-do + +00:49:06.380 --> 00:49:06.680 +things. So like oh, yeah, + +00:49:09.440 --> 00:49:09.640 +I guess there's 1 more Category like I + +00:49:11.780 --> 00:49:11.980 +thought I found my 3 favorite way rather than + +00:49:15.720 --> 00:49:16.220 +like priority 123 is primary tasks which + +00:49:17.960 --> 00:49:18.280 +basically generally goes up to 3, + +00:49:20.380 --> 00:49:20.460 +secondary tasks, and then I like to have a + +00:49:22.540 --> 00:49:23.040 +third category, unplanned tasks, + +00:49:25.840 --> 00:49:26.180 +and I just have those wrote down in a heading + +00:49:28.520 --> 00:49:28.900 +in an org mode file, and then I put the tasks + +00:49:32.160 --> 00:49:32.660 +in there, rather than using the agenda, + +00:49:33.800 --> 00:49:34.040 +like too much, I don't know, + +00:49:40.240 --> 00:49:40.740 +just I found that that was my favorite way of + +00:49:43.480 --> 00:49:43.820 +doing it and then you have like another file + +00:49:47.840 --> 00:49:48.000 +that would just be your dump of anything you + +00:49:51.440 --> 00:49:51.660 +want to do and that would be like that you + +00:49:57.040 --> 00:49:57.540 +could pull from to get your day or I guess + +00:49:59.240 --> 00:49:59.440 +something that's actually better than a day + +00:50:01.560 --> 00:50:01.720 +is doing it all by a week at a time I found + +00:50:03.160 --> 00:50:03.660 +that that's actually a lot nicer because + +00:50:06.600 --> 00:50:06.840 +thinking about what you do in a week seems + +00:50:09.480 --> 00:50:09.840 +like a nicer unit, where you have a week, + +00:50:10.520 --> 00:50:11.020 +then you have your day, + +00:50:13.360 --> 00:50:13.780 +and then you have the 3 categories of + +00:50:16.500 --> 00:50:17.000 +priority, secondary, and unplanned. + +00:50:20.860 --> 00:50:20.920 +At least that's been my favorite iteration on + +00:50:30.840 --> 00:50:31.340 +[Speaker 0]: thought process workflow. + +00:50:31.500 --> 00:50:31.640 +[Speaker 2]: the week of the to-do I had + +00:50:33.820 --> 00:50:34.320 +[Speaker 0]: a colleague that was very effective at + +00:50:37.280 --> 00:50:37.780 +planning on a weekly basis and he would just + +00:50:41.580 --> 00:50:41.900 +get his weekly list of things to get done and + +00:50:43.640 --> 00:50:43.860 +he was very good at pounding through that + +00:50:45.380 --> 00:50:45.880 +list and getting them done. + +00:50:49.400 --> 00:50:49.740 +I have been too much of a day-oriented person + +00:50:54.020 --> 00:50:54.200 +and a week-oriented person to adapt his + +00:50:56.760 --> 00:50:57.260 +approach, but I've been considering that too. + +00:51:03.080 --> 00:51:03.520 +I think what I don't do enough of is pulling + +00:51:05.640 --> 00:51:06.140 +back to the month level, + +00:51:08.100 --> 00:51:08.600 +semester level, year level, + +00:51:10.900 --> 00:51:11.400 +5 year level, 10 year level. + +00:51:11.880 --> 00:51:12.380 +And... + +00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:16.200 +[Speaker 2]: That's the advantage of finding it by a week + +00:51:17.960 --> 00:51:18.120 +is like you can have like so you'd have your + +00:51:20.060 --> 00:51:20.560 +week and then maybe you have like 1 section + +00:51:24.440 --> 00:51:24.660 +after Friday or last day of the week and this + +00:51:27.660 --> 00:51:28.160 +is like your this is just your like staging + +00:51:30.300 --> 00:51:30.460 +so this is where you stage all the tasks and + +00:51:32.560 --> 00:51:32.720 +then what like you can just stay in your + +00:51:37.020 --> 00:51:37.280 +staging write them all down and then use alt + +00:51:39.860 --> 00:51:40.040 +and your arrow keys to quickly reorder all of + +00:51:43.340 --> 00:51:43.640 +them in the week and then when you're looking + +00:51:45.800 --> 00:51:46.300 +at 1 day and you're just looking at ordering + +00:51:48.820 --> 00:51:48.960 +everything well it makes a lot of sense when + +00:51:51.720 --> 00:51:51.960 +you just say, I don't really want to do that. + +00:51:53.160 --> 00:51:53.660 +Like I want this done this week. + +00:51:56.260 --> 00:51:56.500 +I don't necessarily want it done on this day. + +00:51:58.520 --> 00:51:58.740 +So it just, that's why I found that the week + +00:52:00.280 --> 00:52:00.780 +approach works a lot nicer even. + +00:52:09.920 --> 00:52:10.260 +[Speaker 0]: of a staging time you like schedule some time + +00:52:11.880 --> 00:52:12.380 +in your week to do the staging. + +00:52:14.620 --> 00:52:14.960 +[Speaker 2]: Yeah. Is that way The staging is more of just + +00:52:16.840 --> 00:52:16.960 +like, these are the things I would like to + +00:52:19.440 --> 00:52:19.940 +get done. And then when you schedule it, + +00:52:23.360 --> 00:52:23.800 +then you kind of schedule it by just using + +00:52:26.240 --> 00:52:26.740 +the Alt-Left key, the Alt-Arrow keys to just, + +00:52:28.380 --> 00:52:28.580 +oh, I want this done. It looks like this + +00:52:29.860 --> 00:52:30.040 +would work really good on this day. + +00:52:31.620 --> 00:52:32.120 +This 1 looks like it would work on this day. + +00:52:38.800 --> 00:52:39.300 +[Speaker 0]: A, you still utilize org agenda? + +00:52:45.140 --> 00:52:45.640 +[Speaker 2]: I try to, I don't know, + +00:52:49.120 --> 00:52:49.540 +I found that it works at least better without + +00:52:52.120 --> 00:52:52.620 +it. Yeah, that's fine. + +00:52:54.020 --> 00:52:54.340 +Because that way I also get a log of + +00:53:00.020 --> 00:53:00.140 +everything I've done, which I can't find a + +00:53:03.240 --> 00:53:03.400 +way that, it seems easier to just make new + +00:53:06.380 --> 00:53:06.760 +files for it. And rather than, + +00:53:08.160 --> 00:53:08.660 +like you could use it with Org Agenda, + +00:53:11.540 --> 00:53:12.040 +but like 1 of the things that you want is + +00:53:14.040 --> 00:53:14.540 +with it is to look back at it, + +00:53:18.380 --> 00:53:18.880 +reflect. And so like if you have the, + +00:53:23.360 --> 00:53:23.640 +if you have, if you open up the file with 2 + +00:53:25.580 --> 00:53:25.760 +levels or 3 levels of headings to where you + +00:53:26.780 --> 00:53:27.040 +just see the priority task, + +00:53:29.800 --> 00:53:30.300 +you can get a very nice overview of saying, + +00:53:33.860 --> 00:53:34.360 +I did my priority task this day. + +00:53:38.760 --> 00:53:39.100 +So you get the numbers next to the things. + +00:53:40.200 --> 00:53:40.700 +And so you can easily just say, + +00:53:41.820 --> 00:53:41.980 +I've done this. I mean, + +00:53:43.360 --> 00:53:43.520 +it would be nice if I could figure out a way + +00:53:45.240 --> 00:53:45.740 +of doing agenda to give me percentages. + +00:53:50.680 --> 00:53:51.180 +But I haven't figured that out. + +00:53:54.280 --> 00:53:54.780 +Seeing the granular level, + +00:53:57.100 --> 00:53:57.340 +I can easily scan that with my eyes. + +00:53:59.720 --> 00:53:59.900 +So I just did it by hand rather than the + +00:53:59.900 --> 00:54:00.400 +agenda. + +00:54:06.420 --> 00:54:06.600 +[Speaker 0]: Yeah, I've, I've tried to use agenda a few + +00:54:10.400 --> 00:54:10.900 +times and pretty seriously, + +00:54:14.800 --> 00:54:15.060 +but I keep bouncing off it. + +00:54:17.920 --> 00:54:18.160 +I think I get too many things built in or + +00:54:21.200 --> 00:54:21.700 +scheduled and I just don't get to them. + +00:54:26.000 --> 00:54:26.500 +I feel bad about it and I wind up abandoning + +00:54:31.220 --> 00:54:31.500 +it. So that's 1 area where there's probably + +00:54:34.820 --> 00:54:35.040 +some potential for optimizing and making that + +00:54:40.260 --> 00:54:40.440 +work better. There's a lot of customizing you + +00:54:42.280 --> 00:54:42.780 +can do with Agenda. It's amazing. + +00:54:44.540 --> 00:54:45.040 +[Speaker 2]: For me, it was though, + +00:54:48.480 --> 00:54:48.980 +I wanted there to be a separation between the + +00:54:52.120 --> 00:54:52.420 +daily to-do lists and like your grab bag + +00:54:54.480 --> 00:54:54.600 +which I think agenda works a lot better for a + +00:54:58.040 --> 00:54:58.440 +grab bag. I want a nice way of looking back + +00:55:01.560 --> 00:55:02.060 +at my to-do daily to-do logs. + +00:55:05.980 --> 00:55:06.340 +So I kind of want them to be separated, + +00:55:08.480 --> 00:55:08.980 +so I just did them separate. + +00:55:12.540 --> 00:55:12.680 +With the agenda, I could never figure out + +00:55:14.060 --> 00:55:14.560 +exactly how I want that to work, + +00:55:15.620 --> 00:55:16.120 +how the files would look, + +00:55:18.580 --> 00:55:18.960 +and how all the Emacs settings would interact + +00:55:21.300 --> 00:55:21.660 +with it. I mean, I'm sure I could, + +00:55:28.780 --> 00:55:29.160 +but that's why I opted for weekly files. + +00:55:34.960 --> 00:55:35.140 +Or at least That's my most refined idea on + +00:55:35.280 --> 00:55:35.780 +the process. + +00:55:41.000 --> 00:55:41.400 +[Speaker 0]: That's a good idea. So I've taken my approach + +00:55:43.940 --> 00:55:44.440 +is a little different that I'm generating + +00:55:46.760 --> 00:55:46.960 +this text on a daily basis and popping it + +00:55:52.660 --> 00:55:52.900 +into this to 1 document file per day and a + +00:55:59.020 --> 00:55:59.300 +like a diary on Overleaf as a big so it winds + +00:56:01.950 --> 00:56:02.450 +[Speaker 2]: sections + +00:56:05.440 --> 00:56:05.600 +[Speaker 0]: up being 365 and where every month is a + +00:56:11.400 --> 00:56:11.640 +chapter and it's compiled quickly enough even + +00:56:13.100 --> 00:56:13.480 +though it's often up to 1,000 + +00:56:14.780 --> 00:56:15.280 +pages long by the end of the year. + +00:56:17.220 --> 00:56:17.500 +And I have all these, of course, + +00:56:19.240 --> 00:56:19.700 +with the PDF, I can search through it. + +00:56:22.540 --> 00:56:22.760 +So that's not as you can't do the kind of + +00:56:24.380 --> 00:56:24.560 +really sophisticated searching that you can + +00:56:29.340 --> 00:56:29.840 +do with Org Mode. But just doing that, + +00:56:33.620 --> 00:56:33.800 +It sure has been very helpful in digging up + +00:56:39.440 --> 00:56:39.680 +information, like the little protocols on how + +00:56:42.960 --> 00:56:43.460 +I attack, accomplish a certain task that I + +00:56:45.420 --> 00:56:45.920 +have to do a year later, + +00:56:50.440 --> 00:56:50.540 +or to have a record of what I did on a + +00:56:54.220 --> 00:56:54.400 +certain day and then somebody above me might + +00:56:57.100 --> 00:56:57.340 +be trying to hold me to account what got + +00:56:59.580 --> 00:57:00.080 +done. I can look that up pretty very quickly. + +00:57:05.140 --> 00:57:05.320 +It's documented. I find that to be just any + +00:57:09.520 --> 00:57:09.840 +kind of thorough documentation system is very + +00:57:16.080 --> 00:57:16.320 +[Speaker 2]: I also mess with having it all in 1 file + +00:57:17.440 --> 00:57:17.940 +rather than by a weak file. + +00:57:20.140 --> 00:57:20.640 +[Speaker 0]: useful. And at least what I did. + +00:57:21.820 --> 00:57:22.320 +I ran into trouble with, + +00:57:25.380 --> 00:57:25.880 +like, once you get a lot of items, + +00:57:27.040 --> 00:57:27.540 +like if you have 1,000 + +00:57:30.580 --> 00:57:30.780 +items, headings, I've had org files with + +00:57:33.680 --> 00:57:34.180 +1,000 headings. It can be so hard to scroll + +00:57:38.960 --> 00:57:39.280 +through. Maybe it's some limitations I'm run + +00:57:42.240 --> 00:57:42.740 +into with the Emacs being single threaded. + +00:57:49.120 --> 00:57:49.620 +[Speaker 2]: At least with, yeah. Yeah. + +00:57:52.420 --> 00:57:52.920 +It was like, that's 1 of the things is like, + +00:57:54.240 --> 00:57:54.520 +how exactly do you want this, + +00:57:55.920 --> 00:57:56.120 +the information structured because it can + +00:57:56.820 --> 00:57:57.320 +change how it's retrieved. + +00:58:00.260 --> 00:58:00.760 +[Speaker 0]: Ooh, most definitely. Most definitely. + +00:58:08.200 --> 00:58:08.560 +[Speaker 2]: So as an example, when I was doing the daily + +00:58:14.760 --> 00:58:14.960 +logs and I put it all in the date and then + +00:58:15.700 --> 00:58:16.200 +the priority, secondary, + +00:58:21.980 --> 00:58:22.100 +unplanned tasks, and then I had it stay at + +00:58:24.940 --> 00:58:25.120 +that, get auto expanded by that level by + +00:58:27.280 --> 00:58:27.780 +default so I didn't see the individual task + +00:58:30.720 --> 00:58:30.860 +and you and then I had a but And then it + +00:58:33.120 --> 00:58:33.420 +would say like I complete 205 or something + +00:58:34.440 --> 00:58:34.940 +like that of secondary tasks. + +00:58:38.000 --> 00:58:38.400 +And then just being able just to quickly scan + +00:58:39.740 --> 00:58:40.240 +all the days and say, oh, + +00:58:42.960 --> 00:58:43.260 +it just, the feedback you get from that is + +00:58:46.300 --> 00:58:46.500 +worth a lot. And I don't think it's + +00:58:47.920 --> 00:58:48.120 +something, it's not something I could think + +00:58:49.320 --> 00:58:49.820 +of how you do an agenda. + +00:58:53.300 --> 00:58:53.540 +Even though I got done in the text files just + +00:58:57.260 --> 00:58:57.400 +because you get that doesn't expand all the + +00:58:59.580 --> 00:58:59.800 +way so you so you can quickly just see on + +00:59:01.940 --> 00:59:02.140 +this day I did this well on this day I did + +00:59:05.800 --> 00:59:06.300 +this well all within and 4 lines per day. + +00:59:11.040 --> 00:59:11.420 +So it's not, that doesn't, + +00:59:12.920 --> 00:59:13.420 +that's not very visually verbose. + +00:59:16.920 --> 00:59:17.080 +Probably about as visually verbose as you + +00:59:18.640 --> 00:59:19.140 +want it. They're not super long. + +00:59:23.000 --> 00:59:23.200 +You easily see the 2 of 3 and stuff like that + +00:59:24.920 --> 00:59:25.420 +that you get done so you can quickly and say, + +00:59:29.380 --> 00:59:29.600 +oh well, these are the days where I got my + +00:59:31.300 --> 00:59:31.800 +primary tasks done or this week, + +00:59:36.340 --> 00:59:36.500 +and this day I didn't do it well and you + +00:59:38.300 --> 00:59:38.740 +could helps you correlate like your feelings + +00:59:42.440 --> 00:59:42.620 +with your to-do lists and journals and + +00:59:42.620 --> 00:59:43.120 +whatnot. + +00:59:48.940 --> 00:59:49.440 +[Speaker 0]: Yeah I think that's very powerful. + +00:59:53.300 --> 00:59:53.800 +Because it's summarizing capability. + +00:59:57.560 --> 00:59:58.060 +It allows you to, you know, + +01:00:00.656 --> 01:00:00.784 +pull back and get an overview. + +01:00:01.040 --> 01:00:01.540 +Get an overview. + +01:00:07.580 --> 01:00:08.080 +[Speaker 2]: And yeah, as I said, it's like the feedback + +01:00:10.600 --> 01:00:10.760 +from that almost when I did that, + +01:00:12.620 --> 01:00:12.800 +it feels like half the reason or should be + +01:00:14.580 --> 01:00:14.900 +like half the reason is and it's something + +01:00:19.120 --> 01:00:19.340 +that I don't if you use the agenda as it is, + +01:00:21.220 --> 01:00:21.360 +you wouldn't, I don't know how you would get + +01:00:23.160 --> 01:00:23.360 +it, like saying, like looking at the week by + +01:00:25.080 --> 01:00:25.580 +week basis, breakdowns, + +01:00:27.120 --> 01:00:27.620 +you might be able to get like percentages, + +01:00:30.400 --> 01:00:30.900 +which would be nice. Like I did this well, + +01:00:33.700 --> 01:00:34.120 +or like habit, I don't, + +01:00:35.640 --> 01:00:35.920 +there might be things that could offer you + +01:00:39.700 --> 01:00:40.200 +but. Yeah, + +01:00:46.780 --> 01:00:47.280 +[Speaker 0]: so I'm pretty obsessed about tracking effort + +01:00:48.560 --> 01:00:49.060 +on various kinds of projects, + +01:00:52.020 --> 01:00:52.520 +or various kinds of activities, + +01:00:57.880 --> 01:00:58.360 +and to get some feedback in that regard. + +01:00:59.500 --> 01:01:00.000 +And then you, but you got the, + +01:01:02.040 --> 01:01:02.540 +So I define a project as anything that + +01:01:06.300 --> 01:01:06.780 +requires work at different points in time, + +01:01:07.040 --> 01:01:07.540 +more than 1 + +01:01:15.300 --> 01:01:15.520 +[Speaker 2]: time. I'll email you my org mode template + +01:01:17.560 --> 01:01:18.060 +that I made that demonstrates that. + +01:01:22.200 --> 01:01:22.700 +I don't know if you, do you have your email + +01:01:24.520 --> 01:01:25.020 +in your talk notes or anything? + +01:01:29.380 --> 01:01:29.700 +[Speaker 0]: Okay. I think I should have it on the first + +01:01:31.560 --> 01:01:32.060 +slide. There should be my email address. + +01:01:40.560 --> 01:01:41.060 +I can add it to my talk notes. + +01:01:46.920 --> 01:01:47.040 +[Speaker 2]: Okay. Would you want me to show it to you at + +01:01:48.940 --> 01:01:49.440 +[Speaker 0]: that'd be great. + +01:01:52.600 --> 01:01:53.100 +[Speaker 2]: all? Sure, All right, let's see. + +01:02:20.842 --> 01:02:20.905 +I'm going to share screen button, + +01:02:21.220 --> 01:02:21.520 +right? There's a share screen button, + +01:02:21.520 --> 01:02:22.020 +right? + +01:02:26.160 --> 01:02:26.660 +[Speaker 0]: Yeah, so, let's see. + +01:02:59.243 --> 01:02:59.743 +[Speaker 2]: Yeah, I'm all. That's the right button. + +01:03:04.640 --> 01:03:05.140 +Can you not share the screen on this? + +01:03:08.860 --> 01:03:09.360 +[Speaker 0]: I have something going here. + +01:03:13.900 --> 01:03:14.400 +Let's see. I have, I see some stuff on here. + +01:03:18.160 --> 01:03:18.660 +Wonder if I'm still active. + +01:03:21.180 --> 01:03:21.680 +It shows share screen. + +01:03:22.280 --> 01:03:22.780 +Cancel. + +01:03:28.260 --> 01:03:28.760 +[Speaker 2]: Maybe they just did it through OBS. + +01:03:47.280 --> 01:03:47.780 +[Speaker 0]: Maybe I only have permission to share. + +01:03:53.900 --> 01:03:54.400 +I can put my email address in the chat. + +01:03:59.440 --> 01:03:59.620 +[Speaker 2]: I guess I'll just email it to you, + +01:04:06.600 --> 01:04:06.840 +but Let's see. Yeah, I think the way that + +01:04:11.260 --> 01:04:11.460 +they did it on the Any of the other videos if + +01:04:13.780 --> 01:04:14.020 +they shared the screen they just shared the + +01:04:17.440 --> 01:04:17.560 +webcam they just took over the webcam with + +01:04:20.380 --> 01:04:20.880 +OBS and shared what they wanted with it. + +01:04:22.760 --> 01:04:23.260 +[Speaker 0]: Oh, okay. + +01:04:24.720 --> 01:04:25.180 +[Speaker 2]: At least I'm guessing. + +01:04:26.960 --> 01:04:27.460 +Yeah, I'll give that to you. + +01:04:31.080 --> 01:04:31.240 +Okay. I guess I'll let you go watch the rest + +01:04:32.240 --> 01:04:32.740 +of the Emacs videos. + +01:04:34.640 --> 01:04:35.140 +[Speaker 0]: This has been a great conversation. + +01:04:37.280 --> 01:04:37.780 +Thank you very much. I appreciate your + +01:04:39.620 --> 01:04:39.840 +willingness to share your thoughts on this + +01:04:42.980 --> 01:04:43.480 +matter. This is vital, + +01:04:48.260 --> 01:04:48.440 +time management. It's a kind of key aspect of + +01:04:48.440 --> 01:04:48.940 +life. + +01:04:54.680 --> 01:04:55.180 +[Speaker 2]: Oh yeah. The way the how the function. + +01:05:03.320 --> 01:05:03.820 +Reasons to use emacs is to use the keyboard + +01:05:08.240 --> 01:05:08.420 +is. It's not to speed you up. + +01:05:09.520 --> 01:05:10.020 +Like, yeah, that's nice. + +01:05:12.280 --> 01:05:12.780 +But it keeps you in the stream, + +01:05:25.400 --> 01:05:25.760 +keeps you in the flow state and which then + +01:05:32.780 --> 01:05:32.900 +just makes you think better and yeah and the + +01:05:35.540 --> 01:05:35.780 +thing with that is you I have you I have no + +01:05:37.480 --> 01:05:37.980 +idea what the limits of that would be. + +01:05:39.680 --> 01:05:40.020 +Because you think, because yes, + +01:05:42.740 --> 01:05:42.900 +it's not about beating up how many words you + +01:05:44.860 --> 01:05:45.060 +say a minute. I mean that's nice and all, + +01:05:46.680 --> 01:05:46.920 +But when you start doing that, + +01:05:48.340 --> 01:05:48.840 +when you start removing all these friction + +01:05:52.500 --> 01:05:53.000 +points, all of a sudden the number, + +01:05:57.800 --> 01:05:58.300 +quality, and types of thoughts you get start + +01:06:01.620 --> 01:06:02.120 +[Speaker 0]: That's right. + +01:06:03.480 --> 01:06:03.980 +[Speaker 2]: increasing. Which is the goal. + +01:06:14.960 --> 01:06:15.460 +[Speaker 0]: Okay. Well, thank you very much. + +01:06:17.760 --> 01:06:18.260 +Enjoy the rest of the meeting. + +01:06:19.280 --> 01:06:19.780 +[Speaker 2]: Will do. |