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diff --git a/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-emms--emacs-multimedia-system-emms--yoni-rabkin--answers.vtt b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-emms--emacs-multimedia-system-emms--yoni-rabkin--answers.vtt new file mode 100644 index 00000000..ad378f78 --- /dev/null +++ b/2023/captions/emacsconf-2023-emms--emacs-multimedia-system-emms--yoni-rabkin--answers.vtt @@ -0,0 +1,1829 @@ +WEBVTT + + +00:00:06.140 --> 00:00:06.640 +[Speaker 0]: And I think we are live. + +00:00:07.580 --> 00:00:08.080 +Hi, Yanny, how are you doing? + +00:00:10.460 --> 00:00:10.760 +[Speaker 1]: Excellent, excellent. Doing very well, + +00:00:10.960 --> 00:00:11.460 +thank you. + +00:00:13.980 --> 00:00:14.480 +[Speaker 0]: So that was a wonderful presentation. + +00:00:17.440 --> 00:00:17.940 +I first want to commend you on your ability + +00:00:22.040 --> 00:00:22.200 +to both do the how the user encounters the + +00:00:24.960 --> 00:00:25.460 +MMS, how the developer might be interested + +00:00:28.680 --> 00:00:28.920 +about how it works, and I feel like you've + +00:00:30.720 --> 00:00:31.200 +done a wonderful job of talking to absolutely + +00:00:31.800 --> 00:00:32.200 +everyone in our audience, + +00:00:32.840 --> 00:00:33.120 +whatever their skill level. + +00:00:34.120 --> 00:00:34.620 +So thank you so much for this. + +00:00:37.800 --> 00:00:38.300 +[Speaker 1]: Yeah, that of course runs the risk of being, + +00:00:41.580 --> 00:00:41.940 +you know, good for some, + +00:00:42.980 --> 00:00:43.480 +but excellent for none. + +00:00:46.960 --> 00:00:47.280 +But hopefully the result is that people can + +00:00:48.380 --> 00:00:48.880 +get something out of it. + +00:00:51.820 --> 00:00:52.080 +I think it's very important to make sure that + +00:00:55.680 --> 00:00:55.900 +everyone feels that they have access to + +00:00:57.239 --> 00:00:57.739 +Emacs, they have access to EMMS, + +00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:01.140 +that they can do this in whatever capacity + +00:01:02.800 --> 00:01:03.300 +they want. It's for everyone. + +00:01:05.440 --> 00:01:05.940 +I really believe that. + +00:01:09.440 --> 00:01:09.720 +[Speaker 0]: Yeah, and I understand this risk about having + +00:01:10.680 --> 00:01:11.180 +a talk that is kind of a jack-of-all-trades, + +00:01:14.440 --> 00:01:14.940 +but frankly you've done a wonderful job of + +00:01:16.560 --> 00:01:17.060 +making it interesting for everyone, + +00:01:19.540 --> 00:01:19.900 +because also I think the parts worked really + +00:01:21.820 --> 00:01:22.000 +well, and people always had something to look + +00:01:24.240 --> 00:01:24.479 +forward in terms of their expertise of what + +00:01:25.360 --> 00:01:25.680 +particularly spoke to them. + +00:01:27.560 --> 00:01:27.720 +So thank you again. What I'm going to do, + +00:01:29.440 --> 00:01:29.940 +we have about 14 minutes of Q&A, + +00:01:30.760 --> 00:01:31.080 +So I'll invite people, + +00:01:33.400 --> 00:01:33.520 +as I usually do, to add their questions in + +00:01:35.320 --> 00:01:35.760 +the other pad that you can find on the talks + +00:01:38.560 --> 00:01:38.760 +or on IRC. You can also join us in the + +00:01:40.200 --> 00:01:40.320 +discussion. I will make sure this time to + +00:01:42.180 --> 00:01:42.680 +ping Sasha to open the Q&A. + +00:01:44.680 --> 00:01:45.180 +Can you open, I-V-E-M-M-S. + +00:01:48.700 --> 00:01:49.200 +All right, and in the meantime, + +00:01:50.940 --> 00:01:51.040 +whilst we wait for people to join us in the + +00:01:52.360 --> 00:01:52.540 +room, I will start reading some of the + +00:01:53.960 --> 00:01:54.460 +questions off the pad. + +00:01:57.180 --> 00:01:57.520 +So we had the first question about the music + +00:01:58.780 --> 00:01:59.280 +that we played during the launch break, + +00:02:01.320 --> 00:02:01.560 +and It's 1 of our dear friends, + +00:02:05.200 --> 00:02:05.700 +Shoshin Ganshangroh, a free album, + +00:02:09.360 --> 00:02:09.720 +Basement Dazed. I've put the link in the pad + +00:02:12.520 --> 00:02:12.660 +and we've been using Shoshin's music for the + +00:02:13.420 --> 00:02:13.920 +last 3 years, I think, + +00:02:15.060 --> 00:02:15.560 +and everyone, people are so excited. + +00:02:17.220 --> 00:02:17.360 +Some people say, why is it so noisy in the + +00:02:18.480 --> 00:02:18.800 +background? But it's just because there's 1 + +00:02:20.940 --> 00:02:21.420 +part of the different tracks that sounds like + +00:02:24.280 --> 00:02:24.520 +static and it always gets people. + +00:02:25.900 --> 00:02:26.040 +We should probably do something about this, + +00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:28.020 +but frankly it makes me laugh every time. + +00:02:30.460 --> 00:02:30.920 +Starting with the first actual question, + +00:02:32.640 --> 00:02:33.140 +well actually it's a bit of a meme question, + +00:02:34.340 --> 00:02:34.640 +for the next Emacs Con, + +00:02:37.280 --> 00:02:37.440 +could we have an eMMS playlist to follow the + +00:02:37.760 --> 00:02:38.260 +talks along? + +00:02:43.940 --> 00:02:44.060 +[Speaker 1]: Oh that sounds like an excellent idea but I + +00:02:46.560 --> 00:02:46.720 +guess I'm wondering what they mean exactly by + +00:02:48.960 --> 00:02:49.280 +that. Is that a shareable playlist that we + +00:02:54.560 --> 00:02:54.720 +can pass along and just have people go to a + +00:02:56.320 --> 00:02:56.600 +URL and just be able to play that? + +00:02:58.620 --> 00:02:59.060 +I think that's an excellent idea. + +00:03:00.660 --> 00:03:01.160 +It should be a relatively low bandwidth + +00:03:01.780 --> 00:03:02.280 +process. + +00:03:06.580 --> 00:03:06.740 +[Speaker 0]: And it's typically the type of stuff that is + +00:03:10.840 --> 00:03:11.000 +right of our alley. I'm thinking about the + +00:03:15.480 --> 00:03:15.980 +ICS file that we produce for all the events + +00:03:17.020 --> 00:03:17.320 +that are related to Emacs. + +00:03:18.820 --> 00:03:19.240 +You know the workshop that happened in Paris + +00:03:22.360 --> 00:03:22.500 +or in New York, LA? Sasha compiles a list of + +00:03:23.560 --> 00:03:23.920 +all the events and when they happen, + +00:03:25.360 --> 00:03:25.760 +and then we provide this to everyone. + +00:03:27.040 --> 00:03:27.160 +And we can do very much the same with + +00:03:29.380 --> 00:03:29.580 +EmacsConf. You could have a playlist for + +00:03:31.980 --> 00:03:32.420 +EmacsConf 2023, where you get all the talks + +00:03:34.760 --> 00:03:34.900 +and perhaps also the Q&A sessions so that you + +00:03:36.780 --> 00:03:36.960 +can relieve the 16 hours of content that + +00:03:37.800 --> 00:03:38.200 +we're producing. That'd be great, + +00:03:39.240 --> 00:03:39.740 +that's a great idea I think. + +00:03:43.660 --> 00:03:44.160 +[Speaker 1]: Absolutely, and if there are any limitations + +00:03:48.060 --> 00:03:48.420 +in the Emacs playlist structure that things + +00:03:49.640 --> 00:03:50.140 +are missing in the playlist structure, + +00:03:53.040 --> 00:03:53.480 +then it would be a great impetus to implement + +00:03:55.080 --> 00:03:55.520 +those and extend the playlist structure. + +00:03:57.380 --> 00:03:57.860 +Because after all, it's Lisp, + +00:04:01.360 --> 00:04:01.620 +it really is data and functions all mixed + +00:04:03.160 --> 00:04:03.580 +together, so we can do that. + +00:04:06.180 --> 00:04:06.360 +It would be very interesting to dive into it + +00:04:07.000 --> 00:04:07.420 +and see what's missing. + +00:04:10.020 --> 00:04:10.240 +That would be even more informative than what + +00:04:10.680 --> 00:04:11.180 +it can do. + +00:04:14.900 --> 00:04:15.060 +[Speaker 0]: Great. All right, moving on to the next + +00:04:17.000 --> 00:04:17.480 +question. I like to use music and audiobooks + +00:04:18.279 --> 00:04:18.740 +in very different ways. + +00:04:21.440 --> 00:04:21.600 +With music, I like shuffling by artists and + +00:04:23.300 --> 00:04:23.800 +with audiobooks, I want to read sequentially + +00:04:27.260 --> 00:04:27.380 +and pick the same playlist over a couple of + +00:04:29.240 --> 00:04:29.540 +days or weeks. Do you have any tips for using + +00:04:30.860 --> 00:04:31.360 +these 2 opposing media's workflow? + +00:04:38.520 --> 00:04:38.940 +[Speaker 1]: Yes, so I have similar situations where I + +00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:44.420 +have very long endurance races that I watch, + +00:04:47.160 --> 00:04:47.440 +which I do all my media consumption is done + +00:04:50.720 --> 00:04:51.220 +via EMMS. I also listened to music. + +00:04:54.020 --> 00:04:54.520 +And so there's also a middle in between. + +00:04:57.980 --> 00:04:58.480 +There's 1 end in which you have popular + +00:05:01.560 --> 00:05:02.020 +music. These are standalone songs that are + +00:05:04.860 --> 00:05:05.080 +typically 3 to 4 minute long and they are + +00:05:07.900 --> 00:05:08.400 +best consumed in a random you know order + +00:05:09.780 --> 00:05:10.280 +because they are designed around, + +00:05:12.080 --> 00:05:12.580 +you know, a commercial radio distribution. + +00:05:15.140 --> 00:05:15.580 +I guess I'm dating myself by saying radio, + +00:05:17.120 --> 00:05:17.620 +but you know all the that. + +00:05:20.940 --> 00:05:21.440 +In the middle there are longer works like + +00:05:26.100 --> 00:05:26.600 +musicals and classical where these are units + +00:05:30.200 --> 00:05:30.360 +where they might be very long but you would + +00:05:33.160 --> 00:05:33.420 +have several tracks that you do want to have + +00:05:35.600 --> 00:05:35.800 +1 after the other, and you want to be able to + +00:05:38.360 --> 00:05:38.860 +stop and go to the next track. + +00:05:40.760 --> 00:05:41.260 +And then at the very, very other end, + +00:05:44.020 --> 00:05:44.520 +you have extremely long format, + +00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:46.860 +which is included in a single file, + +00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:48.420 +such as an audio book, + +00:05:51.400 --> 00:05:51.900 +a movie, a tutorial that you're watching, + +00:05:54.100 --> 00:05:54.320 +or in my case, you know, + +00:05:56.580 --> 00:05:57.040 +a 24 hour, the 24 hours of Le Mans, + +00:05:58.040 --> 00:05:58.440 +just the 24 hour race, + +00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:01.620 +which, you know, that's 1 heck of a file. + +00:06:07.380 --> 00:06:07.660 +So that is 1 of the reasons eMMS has a number + +00:06:10.160 --> 00:06:10.640 +of elements such as the meta playlist mode + +00:06:11.260 --> 00:06:11.760 +and multiple playlists. + +00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:16.480 +So I would say that they would open a number + +00:06:19.540 --> 00:06:19.680 +of playlists in eMMS, generate a number of + +00:06:26.040 --> 00:06:26.540 +playlists that have each class of media. + +00:06:28.940 --> 00:06:29.320 +So the shorter form songs, + +00:06:33.580 --> 00:06:34.080 +the more pop songs you have in 1 playlist + +00:06:35.920 --> 00:06:36.140 +where you can sort, shuffle it, + +00:06:37.800 --> 00:06:38.300 +you know, save it, do whatever you want. + +00:06:41.980 --> 00:06:42.360 +Then a separate playlist for the long form + +00:06:44.340 --> 00:06:44.840 +stuff. Sometimes that playlist will have even + +00:06:48.960 --> 00:06:49.460 +only 1 file in it if it's long enough, + +00:06:52.120 --> 00:06:52.300 +then have a key combination which takes you + +00:06:55.280 --> 00:06:55.780 +directly to 1 playlist or the other, + +00:06:57.340 --> 00:06:57.840 +and within the long-form playlist, + +00:07:01.980 --> 00:07:02.480 +looking at the bookmarking function of EMMS, + +00:07:06.560 --> 00:07:06.660 +which is designed around being able to save a + +00:07:10.080 --> 00:07:10.580 +particular stopping point or multiple + +00:07:12.240 --> 00:07:12.540 +stopping points, bookmarks in the audio, + +00:07:15.300 --> 00:07:15.800 +and being able to jump back into that audio. + +00:07:18.600 --> 00:07:19.100 +The point to remember about the bookmarking + +00:07:23.720 --> 00:07:24.220 +feature is that sometimes it really depends + +00:07:25.960 --> 00:07:26.460 +on you have to have the right back end. + +00:07:28.900 --> 00:07:29.400 +Not all back ends with replaying, + +00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:33.220 +not all types of media work well with a + +00:07:36.200 --> 00:07:36.660 +bookmarking function, and bug reports + +00:07:38.960 --> 00:07:39.460 +welcome. But also there are other backends + +00:07:44.820 --> 00:07:45.140 +such as MPV where you can configure it that + +00:07:49.860 --> 00:07:50.360 +when you quit playing the song or the media + +00:07:55.080 --> 00:07:55.580 +with, you know, cue internally. + +00:07:58.140 --> 00:07:58.640 +So sometimes the back end has to continue + +00:08:04.400 --> 00:08:04.700 +playing that song. That's what I do in order + +00:08:07.560 --> 00:08:08.060 +to, on 1 hand, switch over to a... + +00:08:09.620 --> 00:08:10.000 +I want to hear... I'm coding, + +00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:11.240 +I want to hear some music, + +00:08:12.860 --> 00:08:13.360 +I go to my playlist of short songs, + +00:08:16.280 --> 00:08:16.560 +then I'm sitting back and I want to watch a + +00:08:20.340 --> 00:08:20.540 +long form something from where I left off and + +00:08:22.420 --> 00:08:22.740 +there I go to the other playlist and use + +00:08:26.140 --> 00:08:26.380 +bookmarks or the features of the back end + +00:08:26.780 --> 00:08:27.280 +that I'm using. + +00:08:31.200 --> 00:08:31.700 +[Speaker 0]: Okay, thank you for the answer. + +00:08:34.440 --> 00:08:34.679 +We have about 7 minutes and we have more + +00:08:35.280 --> 00:08:35.780 +questions, so that's great. + +00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:37.940 +Moving on to the next 1. + +00:08:40.080 --> 00:08:40.240 +Is there a way to search a music selection by + +00:08:42.080 --> 00:08:42.240 +lyrics? Assuming those lyrics are in the + +00:08:43.580 --> 00:08:44.080 +metadata or are available elsewhere, + +00:08:46.300 --> 00:08:46.400 +it would be neat to call songs up from the + +00:08:48.660 --> 00:08:49.160 +lyrics to the song. Perhaps is this + +00:08:50.860 --> 00:08:51.360 +implemented so that you can all aliases, + +00:08:54.560 --> 00:08:54.720 +so they can use aliases for the song that you + +00:08:56.640 --> 00:08:57.100 +like, defining those aliases or shortcuts + +00:08:58.200 --> 00:08:58.680 +either inside or outside eMMS? + +00:08:59.760 --> 00:09:00.060 +Okay, so I think you've got 2 questions. + +00:09:01.500 --> 00:09:02.000 +First about the lyrics and then the aliases. + +00:09:08.360 --> 00:09:08.560 +[Speaker 1]: Yeah, so it's effectively not possible to do + +00:09:10.880 --> 00:09:11.120 +right now. There's a sense in which it is, + +00:09:14.820 --> 00:09:15.020 +but not really. What actually needs to + +00:09:18.840 --> 00:09:19.320 +happen? The problem is that the caching + +00:09:21.780 --> 00:09:22.280 +system is extremely naive. + +00:09:24.800 --> 00:09:24.960 +It's just really a hash that's written to + +00:09:30.560 --> 00:09:31.060 +disk. And maybe now with SQLite integration + +00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:35.380 +or other or just the fact that computers have + +00:09:39.220 --> 00:09:39.440 +a lot more speed and space than they used to + +00:09:43.340 --> 00:09:43.580 +have, we need to expand the cache to be a lot + +00:09:47.020 --> 00:09:47.520 +more greedy and a lot more flexible so that + +00:09:52.580 --> 00:09:52.860 +we can store things such as lyrics in as part + +00:09:56.000 --> 00:09:56.200 +of the metadata. There's no reason not to do + +00:10:02.220 --> 00:10:02.440 +that. Unless your collection would have to be + +00:10:06.560 --> 00:10:07.060 +truly enormous in order to slow things down. + +00:10:09.860 --> 00:10:10.200 +We wouldn't even need to compress the lyrics + +00:10:11.320 --> 00:10:11.820 +in order to store them like that. + +00:10:15.920 --> 00:10:16.120 +But that is a goal. So our rewrite of the + +00:10:17.840 --> 00:10:18.340 +cache is currently in progress, + +00:10:21.680 --> 00:10:21.940 +and the goal is to have a system where you + +00:10:24.920 --> 00:10:25.420 +can put any related information, + +00:10:30.060 --> 00:10:30.220 +including lyrics, and map that to a + +00:10:31.400 --> 00:10:31.900 +particular piece of the media, + +00:10:36.900 --> 00:10:37.060 +be it a URL or a... So you could have in a + +00:10:40.080 --> 00:10:40.240 +sense, you could have a URL to a lecture and + +00:10:44.440 --> 00:10:44.800 +the metadata associated would be some text, + +00:10:47.600 --> 00:10:48.100 +some notes or something else like that. + +00:10:51.140 --> 00:10:51.380 +[Speaker 0]: Right, so that was about the lyrics. + +00:10:53.040 --> 00:10:53.260 +I'm not sure how it answers the question + +00:10:54.560 --> 00:10:54.960 +about the aliases. I mean you can still + +00:10:56.380 --> 00:10:56.880 +filter what you've mentioned about the cache. + +00:10:59.240 --> 00:10:59.440 +I think it's... Do we consider the aliases to + +00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:01.620 +be anything within the metadata? + +00:11:08.040 --> 00:11:08.540 +[Speaker 1]: No, you're right. That is a separate + +00:11:12.380 --> 00:11:12.540 +question. I don't have a great answer for + +00:11:12.980 --> 00:11:13.480 +that right now. + +00:11:16.280 --> 00:11:16.500 +[Speaker 0]: Okay, great. Well, we'll put a pin on this + +00:11:17.440 --> 00:11:17.940 +and we can return to it. + +00:11:19.690 --> 00:11:19.840 +You can return to it at a later stage. + +00:11:21.880 --> 00:11:22.080 +Yeah. All right, moving on to the next + +00:11:22.800 --> 00:11:23.160 +question, then. I'll just, + +00:11:25.180 --> 00:11:25.680 +we'll put a pin on this. + +00:11:26.420 --> 00:11:26.920 +All right, next question. + +00:11:29.020 --> 00:11:29.220 +Are there plans for managing metadata with + +00:11:30.040 --> 00:11:30.540 +online resource backends, + +00:11:32.020 --> 00:11:32.440 +i.e. Discogs or music brains? + +00:11:34.360 --> 00:11:34.540 +What about something like Beats and Emacs or + +00:11:34.920 --> 00:11:35.420 +part of the EMMS? + +00:11:40.520 --> 00:11:40.640 +[Speaker 1]: Yeah, so that's an active discussion on the + +00:11:42.140 --> 00:11:42.640 +mailing list right now. + +00:11:47.340 --> 00:11:47.840 +We don't want to replicate what Beats does + +00:11:49.680 --> 00:11:50.180 +very, very well in eMMS. + +00:11:53.860 --> 00:11:54.360 +We don't want a clunky interface with Beats. + +00:11:57.440 --> 00:11:57.940 +We do want some kind of, + +00:12:00.100 --> 00:12:00.300 +and so it's hard to tell exactly where to + +00:12:03.160 --> 00:12:03.460 +draw that line. So the big answer is yes, + +00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:05.460 +absolutely, there is a plan to do that. + +00:12:09.760 --> 00:12:10.000 +The details become complicated because for 1 + +00:12:15.900 --> 00:12:16.200 +thing, the backend, the database that + +00:12:18.140 --> 00:12:18.640 +MusicBrain uses, AcoustID, + +00:12:21.500 --> 00:12:21.820 +I don't remember if AcoustID is the binary or + +00:12:25.680 --> 00:12:25.960 +the database, but that's actually for + +00:12:27.500 --> 00:12:28.000 +non-commercial use only. + +00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:31.500 +So not only do you need to compile a piece of + +00:12:35.280 --> 00:12:35.760 +software on your computer as a shim, + +00:12:37.540 --> 00:12:37.680 +which is what you need to do in order to set + +00:12:39.180 --> 00:12:39.680 +up beats to do fingerprinting. + +00:12:44.720 --> 00:12:45.220 +But it also crosses this line between + +00:12:47.660 --> 00:12:47.900 +completely free software to completely free + +00:12:49.400 --> 00:12:49.900 +software interfacing with a non-commercial + +00:12:56.000 --> 00:12:56.420 +only service. So a lot of the discussion + +00:12:58.660 --> 00:12:59.160 +that's going on now is what is the contour? + +00:13:02.160 --> 00:13:02.660 +Where would be where we would be effective + +00:13:08.720 --> 00:13:09.220 +for EMMS to do management and where not? + +00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:12.100 +For 1 thing, I would love to be able to... + +00:13:13.980 --> 00:13:14.100 +1 thing that we definitely would love to be + +00:13:18.340 --> 00:13:18.540 +able to do is when you hit E on a file and + +00:13:21.540 --> 00:13:22.040 +you get all the metadata to be able to then + +00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:23.200 +give a command to say, + +00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:25.520 +hey, play to music brains and see if you can + +00:13:26.200 --> 00:13:26.700 +improve that metadata. + +00:13:29.020 --> 00:13:29.520 +Do you have better metadata, + +00:13:33.400 --> 00:13:33.680 +more complete metadata to complete that? + +00:13:35.840 --> 00:13:36.340 +That is definitely in the pipeline. + +00:13:40.900 --> 00:13:41.400 +How best to do it, that's a discussion. + +00:13:45.460 --> 00:13:45.840 +[Speaker 0]: Okay, Yoni, we have about 2 minutes until we + +00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:47.460 +need to go to the next talk. + +00:13:52.960 --> 00:13:53.080 +Okay, I'll risk it. 1 more question and a + +00:13:53.800 --> 00:13:54.300 +short answer if you can. + +00:13:57.440 --> 00:13:57.860 +Have the developers considered using Emacs + +00:13:59.060 --> 00:13:59.560 +customized functionality to persistently + +00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:02.120 +store settings when using eMMS setup discover + +00:14:02.120 --> 00:14:02.620 +players? + +00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:08.460 +[Speaker 1]: Yes, absolutely. That's another active place, + +00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:12.340 +especially with the discover players. + +00:14:14.440 --> 00:14:14.940 +How to do it exactly without annoying people + +00:14:17.840 --> 00:14:18.340 +and clobbering their own settings, + +00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:20.680 +we just need to be very careful about that. + +00:14:23.040 --> 00:14:23.540 +Yes, that's in the coming releases. + +00:14:26.520 --> 00:14:26.940 +[Speaker 0]: All right, well, Younif, + +00:14:27.900 --> 00:14:28.400 +thank you so much for your time. + +00:14:29.440 --> 00:14:29.640 +Feel free to stay in the room. + +00:14:30.920 --> 00:14:31.240 +I see that some people have started joining + +00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:34.220 +on BBB. If you have more questions, + +00:14:36.780 --> 00:14:37.020 +feel free to unmute yourself and ask them + +00:14:39.520 --> 00:14:39.900 +live. Younid, I could ask you also to perhaps + +00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:41.760 +answer the question. I've put the link to the + +00:14:43.980 --> 00:14:44.480 +pad in the BBB chat, so if you look at the... + +00:14:47.220 --> 00:14:47.640 +Here, I think, we're not mirrored on BBB. + +00:14:49.080 --> 00:14:49.280 +If you look at the left you should be able to + +00:14:51.500 --> 00:14:51.580 +see the chat and the questions and if you + +00:14:52.720 --> 00:14:52.840 +could just answer the last question that + +00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:55.640 +would be great. For us on the general track + +00:14:57.980 --> 00:14:58.180 +we will be moving to the next talk and + +00:14:59.700 --> 00:14:59.820 +Yannick do you have any last thing to say in + +00:15:02.720 --> 00:15:02.900 +[Speaker 1]: Thank everyone who put together the + +00:15:04.320 --> 00:15:04.820 +conference and thank you to everyone who + +00:15:06.680 --> 00:15:07.180 +helps with the EMMS. + +00:15:08.160 --> 00:15:08.440 +[Speaker 0]: 10 seconds? All right, + +00:15:09.160 --> 00:15:09.440 +well, thank you so much, + +00:15:10.940 --> 00:15:11.440 +Yoni. We'll probably see you later. + +00:15:17.720 --> 00:15:17.860 +Bye-bye. Wonderful. And I think we are off + +00:15:18.620 --> 00:15:18.760 +air. Thank you so much, + +00:15:20.800 --> 00:15:20.920 +Juni. I need to step out and go take care of + +00:15:23.260 --> 00:15:23.760 +[Speaker 1]: Okay, wonderful. Thank you very much. + +00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:24.520 +[Speaker 0]: the next talk. Bye-bye. + +00:15:25.520 --> 00:15:25.760 +And just to, I forgot to mention, + +00:15:27.160 --> 00:15:27.260 +but you can still talk here and everything is + +00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:28.620 +still being recorded. So, + +00:15:28.880 --> 00:15:28.940 +I'll see you later. + +00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:32.820 +[Speaker 2]: Excellent. Bye-bye. Bye. + +00:15:35.600 --> 00:15:36.100 +[Speaker 3]: Oh, hello. + +00:15:40.600 --> 00:15:41.100 +[Speaker 1]: Wait, you're still, I cannot hear you yet. + +00:15:42.900 --> 00:15:43.080 +[Speaker 4]: You are currently the only person in this + +00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:43.580 +conference. + +00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:12.780 +[Speaker 2]: Okay. + +00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:18.400 +[Speaker 3]: Can you hear me now? I just wanted to say hi + +00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:20.320 +and thank you. My name's Grant. + +00:16:23.740 --> 00:16:24.220 +I've, you helped me contribute to EMMS maybe + +00:16:26.820 --> 00:16:26.980 +2 or 3 years ago. I was trying to do the + +00:16:28.480 --> 00:16:28.980 +[Speaker 2]: So, + +00:16:29.340 --> 00:16:29.840 +[Speaker 3]: track tag stuff. yeah. + +00:16:32.148 --> 00:16:32.571 +So I just wanted to say thank you. + +00:16:35.400 --> 00:16:35.680 +[Speaker 1]: Thank you for continuing and going through + +00:16:38.560 --> 00:16:38.680 +that entire process. I know that 1 of the + +00:16:40.380 --> 00:16:40.520 +things that happens is that people want to + +00:16:43.940 --> 00:16:44.440 +contribute, but it's not as slick as GitHub + +00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:46.580 +and stuff like that, especially with the + +00:16:53.400 --> 00:16:53.900 +copper assignment. And objectively, + +00:16:56.920 --> 00:16:57.420 +it's not that. It's just harder than what + +00:16:58.680 --> 00:16:59.180 +they imagine it might be. + +00:17:01.500 --> 00:17:01.680 +[Speaker 3]: Yeah. Well, I appreciate it. + +00:17:03.340 --> 00:17:03.440 +I think you're doing a wonderful job as a + +00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:07.660 +maintainer. I still hang out on the list and + +00:17:09.380 --> 00:17:09.880 +enjoy listening in on the discussions. + +00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:10.460 +So. + +00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:14.626 +[Speaker 2]: Yeah. But that's it. I think that's it. + +00:17:16.700 --> 00:17:17.200 +I think that's it. And I think that's it. + +00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:17.890 +And I think that's it. + +00:17:23.339 --> 00:17:23.660 +I appreciate it. And I'll leave you to all of + +00:17:27.781 --> 00:17:27.811 +you to go on from being a product. + +00:17:28.088 --> 00:17:28.118 +And that she valued to all of us long term + +00:17:28.180 --> 00:17:28.680 +being a project. + +00:17:31.460 --> 00:17:31.960 +[Speaker 1]: If you're not super duper active, + +00:17:33.420 --> 00:17:33.720 +being there long term, + +00:17:37.360 --> 00:17:37.860 +people tend to find it easier trying to + +00:17:40.840 --> 00:17:41.060 +continue contributing to the project if + +00:17:42.360 --> 00:17:42.620 +there's a consistency there, + +00:17:43.520 --> 00:17:44.020 +if there isn't a churn, + +00:17:47.720 --> 00:17:48.160 +if there is a kind of a core group. + +00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:52.940 +I guess it's like, you think it's constant. + +00:17:58.280 --> 00:17:58.780 +Eliezer Etzke and RMS, + +00:18:00.420 --> 00:18:00.920 +whatever on the next mailing list, + +00:18:03.040 --> 00:18:03.540 +You know, okay, there are certain people that + +00:18:05.600 --> 00:18:05.800 +I think so. So thank you for that. + +00:18:06.340 --> 00:18:06.840 +That's very important. + +00:18:07.540 --> 00:18:08.040 +That helps. + +00:18:12.560 --> 00:18:12.940 +[Speaker 3]: Yeah, I'm, I feel like when I started using + +00:18:14.180 --> 00:18:14.540 +EMMS several years ago, + +00:18:16.500 --> 00:18:16.820 +it's, it's improved a lot since then. + +00:18:19.540 --> 00:18:20.040 +And I notice your focus on helping new users + +00:18:22.540 --> 00:18:22.800 +get started quickly. And I think the talk + +00:18:23.840 --> 00:18:24.160 +today will help with that too. + +00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:24.660 +So + +00:18:32.380 --> 00:18:32.700 +[Speaker 1]: yeah, I want to put you know, + +00:18:33.860 --> 00:18:34.360 +the, especially the TLDR, + +00:18:37.500 --> 00:18:37.640 +like how to start it on the link that to the + +00:18:44.080 --> 00:18:44.380 +website, find somehow that we can get on to + +00:18:52.900 --> 00:18:53.400 +prepare for that. And this together. + +00:18:54.700 --> 00:18:55.200 +Now, question for you, + +00:18:58.260 --> 00:18:58.620 +Where would you like to see EMMS go? + +00:18:59.440 --> 00:18:59.820 +Where do you see it landing? + +00:19:02.780 --> 00:19:02.900 +What do you feel like this is what this is + +00:19:04.540 --> 00:19:05.040 +we're sorely missing these things? + +00:19:09.740 --> 00:19:10.240 +[Speaker 3]: I don't know. I mean, I picked it up, + +00:19:13.540 --> 00:19:13.940 +because I both use it to play my music + +00:19:17.100 --> 00:19:17.320 +collection, but also, like I record my own + +00:19:20.140 --> 00:19:20.320 +music. And I wanted to be able to edit my + +00:19:23.500 --> 00:19:24.000 +metadata in Emacs, because editing metadata + +00:19:29.100 --> 00:19:29.220 +elsewhere sucks. And so that's kind of why I + +00:19:30.280 --> 00:19:30.560 +got involved with that. + +00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:33.940 +And I was like, being able to edit metadata, + +00:19:37.580 --> 00:19:37.900 +especially for content that maybe you're + +00:19:41.760 --> 00:19:42.180 +creating or because I have a bunch of files + +00:19:44.340 --> 00:19:44.700 +of just unlabeled stuff I've recorded on, + +00:19:45.340 --> 00:19:45.780 +you know, different quarters, + +00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:47.520 +things like that. So that's kind of where I + +00:19:50.320 --> 00:19:50.740 +was focusing on it. It's the only media tool + +00:19:52.540 --> 00:19:52.720 +that lets me do that, you know, + +00:19:54.520 --> 00:19:54.940 +I can play the music back and have quick + +00:19:58.260 --> 00:19:58.380 +editing. So I know there was a couple of + +00:20:00.860 --> 00:20:01.120 +things we had talked about in terms of maybe + +00:20:03.260 --> 00:20:03.480 +improving kind of the user interface for the + +00:20:05.440 --> 00:20:05.940 +tag editor, things like that. + +00:20:09.300 --> 00:20:09.600 +So I don't have any grand visions for where + +00:20:15.660 --> 00:20:15.800 +EMMS should go. I know pretty much all the + +00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:17.420 +things I've heard about it already. + +00:20:20.200 --> 00:20:20.700 +You can hook up to GNU FM, + +00:20:21.940 --> 00:20:22.440 +the Scrabbling Service, + +00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:23.700 +and all that kind of stuff. + +00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:27.180 +I don't really feel like it's missing much, + +00:20:29.020 --> 00:20:29.280 +especially being able to choose the back + +00:20:31.880 --> 00:20:32.320 +ends. I guess, if anything, + +00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:35.220 +it's the interface. How can it be even more + +00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:38.660 +intuitive for users? And I think that, + +00:20:41.500 --> 00:20:41.820 +you know, we need more people playing around + +00:20:43.380 --> 00:20:43.880 +with it, I guess. Yeah. + +00:20:46.220 --> 00:20:46.420 +[Speaker 2]: I think a really good + +00:20:47.520 --> 00:20:47.800 +[Speaker 1]: Well, yeah. example of that is, + +00:20:49.240 --> 00:20:49.600 +because I'm sure there are lots of people + +00:20:50.440 --> 00:20:50.740 +playing around with it, + +00:20:51.460 --> 00:20:51.960 +arriving at a conclusion, + +00:20:53.860 --> 00:20:54.360 +keeping it to themselves and moving on. + +00:20:59.160 --> 00:20:59.300 +Yeah. Which, and I know that a lot of bits of + +00:21:01.820 --> 00:21:02.160 +software put a send a bug report feature in + +00:21:04.660 --> 00:21:05.020 +and stuff like that and no 1 uses those + +00:21:07.600 --> 00:21:08.000 +either. So that's the frictional cost. + +00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:10.940 +I think the context switch for people between + +00:21:16.120 --> 00:21:16.360 +this doesn't work to actually formulating in + +00:21:17.840 --> 00:21:18.340 +words what didn't work, + +00:21:21.380 --> 00:21:21.600 +that is a very expensive context which most + +00:21:24.800 --> 00:21:24.980 +people will not do. And we're poorer for + +00:21:32.220 --> 00:21:32.660 +that. So, I think that when we integrate + +00:21:34.740 --> 00:21:35.240 +music brains and other things like that into. + +00:21:37.460 --> 00:21:37.960 +Now, of course, music brains will probably, + +00:21:41.200 --> 00:21:41.380 +it would be very funny if you pull up your + +00:21:43.480 --> 00:21:43.660 +stuff, right? Something that you wrote and + +00:21:46.080 --> 00:21:46.280 +you say, hey, music brains match this and + +00:21:48.600 --> 00:21:49.000 +it's not there, then it'll probably suggest + +00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:52.220 +[Speaker 3]: Yeah, I've heard that. + +00:21:52.660 --> 00:21:52.940 +[Speaker 1]: some wild things. Yeah, + +00:21:58.260 --> 00:21:58.400 +because there are, there was a system I was + +00:22:02.060 --> 00:22:02.220 +looking at its code for researching stuff for + +00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:04.700 +EMS And I'm trying to remember what it's + +00:22:05.720 --> 00:22:06.040 +named. It begins with a J, + +00:22:07.160 --> 00:22:07.660 +it's this media player, + +00:22:13.780 --> 00:22:13.940 +free floss media player that it's like a + +00:22:17.020 --> 00:22:17.520 +media server that can cast to a television + +00:22:20.940 --> 00:22:21.220 +and stuff like that. And I asked it to + +00:22:24.280 --> 00:22:24.780 +automatically label things and the results + +00:22:28.180 --> 00:22:28.380 +were horrible. It thought that half of my + +00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:33.400 +songs were movies. It thought that JPEGs were + +00:22:35.800 --> 00:22:36.220 +songs. It just, it did some, + +00:22:40.520 --> 00:22:41.020 +it did incredibly, it's not a solved problem, + +00:22:44.660 --> 00:22:45.160 +I think. So the, what I'm thinking with + +00:22:49.340 --> 00:22:49.540 +MusicBrainz and those services is that you + +00:22:51.840 --> 00:22:52.240 +hit a button and you have you get another + +00:22:57.040 --> 00:22:57.240 +pane with a suggestion and you either and you + +00:22:59.060 --> 00:22:59.240 +can copy through you can say okay copy this + +00:23:01.560 --> 00:23:01.760 +and this in this field over or reject the + +00:23:03.960 --> 00:23:04.460 +suggestion and maybe get another 1. + +00:23:04.940 --> 00:23:05.280 +So, + +00:23:07.360 --> 00:23:07.660 +[Speaker 3]: Yeah, I like that a lot. + +00:23:09.160 --> 00:23:09.480 +That's more like a diff, + +00:23:11.280 --> 00:23:11.640 +right? Like you get the diff between the 2 + +00:23:13.540 --> 00:23:14.040 +and you can apply which changes you like. + +00:23:15.580 --> 00:23:16.080 +Yeah. Was it Jellyfin? + +00:23:18.220 --> 00:23:18.720 +Is that... Jellyfin? Yeah, + +00:23:19.460 --> 00:23:19.960 +[Speaker 1]: Jellyfin, yes. + +00:23:22.340 --> 00:23:22.840 +[Speaker 3]: Yeah, And when that happened, + +00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:25.460 +did it clobber all your metadata? + +00:23:27.440 --> 00:23:27.940 +Or does it just label stuff? + +00:23:28.860 --> 00:23:29.360 +[Speaker 2]: No, it... + +00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:38.740 +[Speaker 1]: Escalate things somewhere inside it and to + +00:23:49.020 --> 00:23:49.340 +looking for really, not allow me to do very + +00:23:54.640 --> 00:23:55.080 +easily. So I was, so, you know, + +00:23:56.660 --> 00:23:56.960 +on 1 hand, it makes me feel, + +00:23:58.980 --> 00:23:59.120 +oh, we're not the only ones dealing with + +00:24:00.680 --> 00:24:00.840 +this. We're not the only ones struggling with + +00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:01.800 +this. On the other hand, + +00:24:05.660 --> 00:24:05.820 +it would be nice if that's a paragon that we + +00:24:08.460 --> 00:24:08.680 +can look to and say, this is a wonderful way + +00:24:11.320 --> 00:24:11.540 +of doing it. Let's incorporate as much of + +00:24:15.180 --> 00:24:15.520 +[Speaker 3]: Yeah, it's a tricky problem, + +00:24:18.220 --> 00:24:18.620 +especially if you're modifying people's media + +00:24:19.780 --> 00:24:20.280 +files you know so + +00:24:23.040 --> 00:24:23.420 +[Speaker 1]: that as we can. yeah I'm also very convinced + +00:24:31.560 --> 00:24:32.060 +that so I'm not a mainframe for MMS because + +00:24:35.020 --> 00:24:35.520 +I'm old and curmudgeonly essentially in my, + +00:24:37.660 --> 00:24:37.900 +in the way they do it. + +00:24:40.080 --> 00:24:40.520 +And honestly, I rarely ever, + +00:24:42.780 --> 00:24:43.180 +I use the MMS browser when I need to debug + +00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:44.660 +the MS browser. I don't, + +00:24:48.740 --> 00:24:49.240 +I use very simple commands and I even rarely + +00:24:50.440 --> 00:24:50.940 +look at the playlists. + +00:24:53.940 --> 00:24:54.220 +That was 1 of the things because when I got + +00:24:56.680 --> 00:24:57.100 +into MMS originally when my eyesight started + +00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:00.140 +going so I had to rely less and less on GUI + +00:25:02.800 --> 00:25:03.300 +interfaces. So that was, + +00:25:06.340 --> 00:25:06.840 +so to this day that's how I use EMMS. + +00:25:08.560 --> 00:25:09.060 +[Speaker 3]: Yeah, it's interesting. + +00:25:13.260 --> 00:25:13.760 +I remember running into a browser bug because + +00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:15.980 +I think just my age, like, + +00:25:18.120 --> 00:25:18.340 +I want to be able to tab through and like + +00:25:20.060 --> 00:25:20.560 +that was a huge that that changed recently + +00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:22.800 +right where you tab and it unfolds in the + +00:25:27.620 --> 00:25:27.980 +browser but yeah I realized that people use + +00:25:30.600 --> 00:25:31.100 +emms in so many different ways just like any + +00:25:36.020 --> 00:25:36.220 +piece of emacs there's there's many ways to + +00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:40.440 +do it but appreciate your time I'm gonna + +00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:42.260 +actually put together this Christmas tree + +00:25:43.400 --> 00:25:43.900 +[Speaker 0]: So. Wonderful. + +00:25:45.260 --> 00:25:45.660 +[Speaker 3]: behind me. Yeah, just wanted to say hi, + +00:25:50.900 --> 00:25:51.400 +meet you in person. But yeah. + +00:25:54.340 --> 00:25:54.840 +[Speaker 1]: Yeah, excellent. I appreciate it a lot and we + +00:25:55.080 --> 00:25:55.580 +generate + +00:25:59.960 --> 00:26:00.260 +[Speaker 2]: some interesting questions. + +00:26:00.780 --> 00:26:01.280 +Yeah, thank you. + +00:26:03.760 --> 00:26:03.960 +[Speaker 4]: You are currently the only person in this + +00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:04.460 +conference. + +00:26:13.480 --> 00:26:13.980 +[Speaker 1]: I'm going to have a look at the questions + +00:26:14.060 --> 00:26:14.560 +here. + +00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:29.940 +Let's see. Let's see. So there is, + +00:26:32.900 --> 00:26:33.260 +okay. There's a question here. + +00:26:34.540 --> 00:26:34.680 +I like what you said about balancing the + +00:26:36.140 --> 00:26:36.380 +concern for software freedom with the worry + +00:26:38.360 --> 00:26:38.560 +that this might alienate the package user. + +00:26:39.960 --> 00:26:40.120 +I wonder if you have advice for other + +00:26:41.720 --> 00:26:41.820 +maintainers how to communicate this sort of + +00:26:43.660 --> 00:26:44.120 +thing diplomatically? Yes, + +00:26:45.660 --> 00:26:46.160 +when you have to deny implementing a feature + +00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:48.980 +for a freedom reason. This in fact happens + +00:26:56.140 --> 00:26:56.320 +all the time. A recent example of this was a + +00:26:58.380 --> 00:26:58.580 +YouTube download, right, + +00:26:59.540 --> 00:27:00.040 +the YouTube download feature. + +00:27:04.040 --> 00:27:04.540 +At the time, okay, so stepping back, + +00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:07.940 +the request was to have a YouTube download + +00:27:11.940 --> 00:27:12.440 +feature integrated strongly into eMMS so that + +00:27:16.260 --> 00:27:16.640 +you put in a YouTube URL and you can download + +00:27:17.640 --> 00:27:18.140 +the video and play it. + +00:27:22.080 --> 00:27:22.280 +And the question isn't really whether you can + +00:27:24.660 --> 00:27:25.120 +chain YouTube Downloader or 1 of those things + +00:27:26.600 --> 00:27:27.100 +into your EMMS configuration. + +00:27:28.140 --> 00:27:28.520 +You can do whatever you want. + +00:27:30.840 --> 00:27:31.340 +But the question is, does EMMS actually + +00:27:33.340 --> 00:27:33.740 +integrate with it really, + +00:27:35.740 --> 00:27:36.040 +really strongly to the extent where it tells + +00:27:37.800 --> 00:27:38.140 +you oh you don't need to download install + +00:27:40.320 --> 00:27:40.820 +please go ahead and install that or whatever + +00:27:43.740 --> 00:27:44.180 +and at the time we checked it we found out + +00:27:45.800 --> 00:27:46.120 +that you know the version that we were + +00:27:49.280 --> 00:27:49.780 +looking at of the YouTube download or YTDLP + +00:27:51.720 --> 00:27:52.220 +or whatever it was called, + +00:27:56.200 --> 00:27:56.580 +actually downloaded a good amount of + +00:27:59.200 --> 00:27:59.540 +proprietary JavaScript onto your machine and + +00:28:02.300 --> 00:28:02.480 +ran it, just as if you were going on to the + +00:28:06.560 --> 00:28:06.880 +YouTube page, which is not for me to tell + +00:28:09.980 --> 00:28:10.480 +people not to do if they want to do that, + +00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:16.460 +but it's absolutely for me not to cause to + +00:28:18.540 --> 00:28:19.040 +happen on the user's machine without them. + +00:28:21.480 --> 00:28:21.660 +1 of the last thing that I want to do in the + +00:28:25.980 --> 00:28:26.180 +world is have a user inside Emacs press a + +00:28:29.760 --> 00:28:30.160 +button and have proprietary software get + +00:28:32.300 --> 00:28:32.540 +downloaded behind their back and run on their + +00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:38.420 +machine that would be disastrous so we had to + +00:28:41.380 --> 00:28:41.600 +say no we had to say that's I'm sorry that's + +00:28:47.060 --> 00:28:47.380 +beyond the pale and in fact in doing so some + +00:28:51.100 --> 00:28:51.420 +people who were using this system said, + +00:28:53.900 --> 00:28:54.400 +actually I had no idea it was doing this + +00:28:56.660 --> 00:28:57.040 +behind my back. I thought it was just magic. + +00:28:58.860 --> 00:28:59.360 +I thought it was a YouTube video without any + +00:29:01.580 --> 00:29:01.780 +freedom issues. I'm going to look into it or + +00:29:03.120 --> 00:29:03.620 +I'm going to stop using it. + +00:29:11.180 --> 00:29:11.680 +So my advice would be Stand firm and just be + +00:29:15.040 --> 00:29:15.380 +Not not preachy. Don't tell people what they + +00:29:19.580 --> 00:29:19.960 +need to do be very clear about what you stand + +00:29:21.900 --> 00:29:22.400 +for and what the project stands for, + +00:29:28.660 --> 00:29:28.940 +and so they very clearly know where you + +00:29:30.460 --> 00:29:30.960 +stand. And I think that people actually + +00:29:36.540 --> 00:29:37.040 +appreciate that more than a political answer, + +00:29:43.540 --> 00:29:44.040 +right? That has been my experience. + +00:29:49.800 --> 00:29:50.000 +Now, excuse me, taking into account that 1 or + +00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:52.700 +2 people will tell you, + +00:29:54.960 --> 00:29:55.440 +this is terrible. I'm leaving. + +00:30:00.550 --> 00:30:00.625 +[Speaker 2]: If you do this, + +00:30:01.460 --> 00:30:01.620 +[Speaker 1]: This is useless. you're free software or + +00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:03.900 +whatever, and just leave. + +00:30:05.860 --> 00:30:06.360 +But some people are ornery. + +00:30:09.360 --> 00:30:09.620 +That's not necessarily something bad that you + +00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:12.180 +did. But that has happened. + +00:30:14.200 --> 00:30:14.700 +There are multiple stories. + +00:30:16.840 --> 00:30:17.080 +Because the MMS is so old, + +00:30:20.080 --> 00:30:20.580 +there are multiple points in which non-free + +00:30:23.940 --> 00:30:24.140 +software intersected with the EMS because of + +00:30:28.580 --> 00:30:28.820 +multimedia and we had to go the other + +00:30:33.300 --> 00:30:33.800 +direction and so far it has served EMS well + +00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:38.740 +like the project has died as a result. + +00:30:39.800 --> 00:30:40.200 +Of course, can't prove a negative, + +00:30:42.040 --> 00:30:42.540 +don't know where we would be if we had taken, + +00:30:44.760 --> 00:30:44.860 +gone down that route. I'm pretty sure we + +00:30:46.100 --> 00:30:46.600 +would need a new ELPA, + +00:30:50.860 --> 00:30:51.360 +and I think being so clearly integrated with + +00:30:55.040 --> 00:30:55.540 +emacs is a huge benefit to eMMS because it's + +00:30:57.660 --> 00:30:58.160 +it allows people to install it very easily. + +00:31:08.760 --> 00:31:09.020 +And those are all the questions that I can + +00:31:09.020 --> 00:31:09.520 +see. + +00:31:15.060 --> 00:31:15.560 +[Speaker 2]: You |