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+WEBVTT
+
+
+00:00:06.140 --> 00:00:06.640
+[Speaker 0]: And I think we are live.
+
+00:00:07.580 --> 00:00:08.080
+Hi, Yanny, how are you doing?
+
+00:00:10.460 --> 00:00:10.760
+[Speaker 1]: Excellent, excellent. Doing very well,
+
+00:00:10.960 --> 00:00:11.460
+thank you.
+
+00:00:13.980 --> 00:00:14.480
+[Speaker 0]: So that was a wonderful presentation.
+
+00:00:17.440 --> 00:00:17.940
+I first want to commend you on your ability
+
+00:00:22.040 --> 00:00:22.200
+to both do the how the user encounters the
+
+00:00:24.960 --> 00:00:25.460
+MMS, how the developer might be interested
+
+00:00:28.680 --> 00:00:28.920
+about how it works, and I feel like you've
+
+00:00:30.720 --> 00:00:31.200
+done a wonderful job of talking to absolutely
+
+00:00:31.800 --> 00:00:32.200
+everyone in our audience,
+
+00:00:32.840 --> 00:00:33.120
+whatever their skill level.
+
+00:00:34.120 --> 00:00:34.620
+So thank you so much for this.
+
+00:00:37.800 --> 00:00:38.300
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, that of course runs the risk of being,
+
+00:00:41.580 --> 00:00:41.940
+you know, good for some,
+
+00:00:42.980 --> 00:00:43.480
+but excellent for none.
+
+00:00:46.960 --> 00:00:47.280
+But hopefully the result is that people can
+
+00:00:48.380 --> 00:00:48.880
+get something out of it.
+
+00:00:51.820 --> 00:00:52.080
+I think it's very important to make sure that
+
+00:00:55.680 --> 00:00:55.900
+everyone feels that they have access to
+
+00:00:57.239 --> 00:00:57.739
+Emacs, they have access to EMMS,
+
+00:01:00.640 --> 00:01:01.140
+that they can do this in whatever capacity
+
+00:01:02.800 --> 00:01:03.300
+they want. It's for everyone.
+
+00:01:05.440 --> 00:01:05.940
+I really believe that.
+
+00:01:09.440 --> 00:01:09.720
+[Speaker 0]: Yeah, and I understand this risk about having
+
+00:01:10.680 --> 00:01:11.180
+a talk that is kind of a jack-of-all-trades,
+
+00:01:14.440 --> 00:01:14.940
+but frankly you've done a wonderful job of
+
+00:01:16.560 --> 00:01:17.060
+making it interesting for everyone,
+
+00:01:19.540 --> 00:01:19.900
+because also I think the parts worked really
+
+00:01:21.820 --> 00:01:22.000
+well, and people always had something to look
+
+00:01:24.240 --> 00:01:24.479
+forward in terms of their expertise of what
+
+00:01:25.360 --> 00:01:25.680
+particularly spoke to them.
+
+00:01:27.560 --> 00:01:27.720
+So thank you again. What I'm going to do,
+
+00:01:29.440 --> 00:01:29.940
+we have about 14 minutes of Q&A,
+
+00:01:30.760 --> 00:01:31.080
+So I'll invite people,
+
+00:01:33.400 --> 00:01:33.520
+as I usually do, to add their questions in
+
+00:01:35.320 --> 00:01:35.760
+the other pad that you can find on the talks
+
+00:01:38.560 --> 00:01:38.760
+or on IRC. You can also join us in the
+
+00:01:40.200 --> 00:01:40.320
+discussion. I will make sure this time to
+
+00:01:42.180 --> 00:01:42.680
+ping Sasha to open the Q&A.
+
+00:01:44.680 --> 00:01:45.180
+Can you open, I-V-E-M-M-S.
+
+00:01:48.700 --> 00:01:49.200
+All right, and in the meantime,
+
+00:01:50.940 --> 00:01:51.040
+whilst we wait for people to join us in the
+
+00:01:52.360 --> 00:01:52.540
+room, I will start reading some of the
+
+00:01:53.960 --> 00:01:54.460
+questions off the pad.
+
+00:01:57.180 --> 00:01:57.520
+So we had the first question about the music
+
+00:01:58.780 --> 00:01:59.280
+that we played during the launch break,
+
+00:02:01.320 --> 00:02:01.560
+and It's 1 of our dear friends,
+
+00:02:05.200 --> 00:02:05.700
+Shoshin Ganshangroh, a free album,
+
+00:02:09.360 --> 00:02:09.720
+Basement Dazed. I've put the link in the pad
+
+00:02:12.520 --> 00:02:12.660
+and we've been using Shoshin's music for the
+
+00:02:13.420 --> 00:02:13.920
+last 3 years, I think,
+
+00:02:15.060 --> 00:02:15.560
+and everyone, people are so excited.
+
+00:02:17.220 --> 00:02:17.360
+Some people say, why is it so noisy in the
+
+00:02:18.480 --> 00:02:18.800
+background? But it's just because there's 1
+
+00:02:20.940 --> 00:02:21.420
+part of the different tracks that sounds like
+
+00:02:24.280 --> 00:02:24.520
+static and it always gets people.
+
+00:02:25.900 --> 00:02:26.040
+We should probably do something about this,
+
+00:02:27.520 --> 00:02:28.020
+but frankly it makes me laugh every time.
+
+00:02:30.460 --> 00:02:30.920
+Starting with the first actual question,
+
+00:02:32.640 --> 00:02:33.140
+well actually it's a bit of a meme question,
+
+00:02:34.340 --> 00:02:34.640
+for the next Emacs Con,
+
+00:02:37.280 --> 00:02:37.440
+could we have an eMMS playlist to follow the
+
+00:02:37.760 --> 00:02:38.260
+talks along?
+
+00:02:43.940 --> 00:02:44.060
+[Speaker 1]: Oh that sounds like an excellent idea but I
+
+00:02:46.560 --> 00:02:46.720
+guess I'm wondering what they mean exactly by
+
+00:02:48.960 --> 00:02:49.280
+that. Is that a shareable playlist that we
+
+00:02:54.560 --> 00:02:54.720
+can pass along and just have people go to a
+
+00:02:56.320 --> 00:02:56.600
+URL and just be able to play that?
+
+00:02:58.620 --> 00:02:59.060
+I think that's an excellent idea.
+
+00:03:00.660 --> 00:03:01.160
+It should be a relatively low bandwidth
+
+00:03:01.780 --> 00:03:02.280
+process.
+
+00:03:06.580 --> 00:03:06.740
+[Speaker 0]: And it's typically the type of stuff that is
+
+00:03:10.840 --> 00:03:11.000
+right of our alley. I'm thinking about the
+
+00:03:15.480 --> 00:03:15.980
+ICS file that we produce for all the events
+
+00:03:17.020 --> 00:03:17.320
+that are related to Emacs.
+
+00:03:18.820 --> 00:03:19.240
+You know the workshop that happened in Paris
+
+00:03:22.360 --> 00:03:22.500
+or in New York, LA? Sasha compiles a list of
+
+00:03:23.560 --> 00:03:23.920
+all the events and when they happen,
+
+00:03:25.360 --> 00:03:25.760
+and then we provide this to everyone.
+
+00:03:27.040 --> 00:03:27.160
+And we can do very much the same with
+
+00:03:29.380 --> 00:03:29.580
+EmacsConf. You could have a playlist for
+
+00:03:31.980 --> 00:03:32.420
+EmacsConf 2023, where you get all the talks
+
+00:03:34.760 --> 00:03:34.900
+and perhaps also the Q&A sessions so that you
+
+00:03:36.780 --> 00:03:36.960
+can relieve the 16 hours of content that
+
+00:03:37.800 --> 00:03:38.200
+we're producing. That'd be great,
+
+00:03:39.240 --> 00:03:39.740
+that's a great idea I think.
+
+00:03:43.660 --> 00:03:44.160
+[Speaker 1]: Absolutely, and if there are any limitations
+
+00:03:48.060 --> 00:03:48.420
+in the Emacs playlist structure that things
+
+00:03:49.640 --> 00:03:50.140
+are missing in the playlist structure,
+
+00:03:53.040 --> 00:03:53.480
+then it would be a great impetus to implement
+
+00:03:55.080 --> 00:03:55.520
+those and extend the playlist structure.
+
+00:03:57.380 --> 00:03:57.860
+Because after all, it's Lisp,
+
+00:04:01.360 --> 00:04:01.620
+it really is data and functions all mixed
+
+00:04:03.160 --> 00:04:03.580
+together, so we can do that.
+
+00:04:06.180 --> 00:04:06.360
+It would be very interesting to dive into it
+
+00:04:07.000 --> 00:04:07.420
+and see what's missing.
+
+00:04:10.020 --> 00:04:10.240
+That would be even more informative than what
+
+00:04:10.680 --> 00:04:11.180
+it can do.
+
+00:04:14.900 --> 00:04:15.060
+[Speaker 0]: Great. All right, moving on to the next
+
+00:04:17.000 --> 00:04:17.480
+question. I like to use music and audiobooks
+
+00:04:18.279 --> 00:04:18.740
+in very different ways.
+
+00:04:21.440 --> 00:04:21.600
+With music, I like shuffling by artists and
+
+00:04:23.300 --> 00:04:23.800
+with audiobooks, I want to read sequentially
+
+00:04:27.260 --> 00:04:27.380
+and pick the same playlist over a couple of
+
+00:04:29.240 --> 00:04:29.540
+days or weeks. Do you have any tips for using
+
+00:04:30.860 --> 00:04:31.360
+these 2 opposing media's workflow?
+
+00:04:38.520 --> 00:04:38.940
+[Speaker 1]: Yes, so I have similar situations where I
+
+00:04:43.920 --> 00:04:44.420
+have very long endurance races that I watch,
+
+00:04:47.160 --> 00:04:47.440
+which I do all my media consumption is done
+
+00:04:50.720 --> 00:04:51.220
+via EMMS. I also listened to music.
+
+00:04:54.020 --> 00:04:54.520
+And so there's also a middle in between.
+
+00:04:57.980 --> 00:04:58.480
+There's 1 end in which you have popular
+
+00:05:01.560 --> 00:05:02.020
+music. These are standalone songs that are
+
+00:05:04.860 --> 00:05:05.080
+typically 3 to 4 minute long and they are
+
+00:05:07.900 --> 00:05:08.400
+best consumed in a random you know order
+
+00:05:09.780 --> 00:05:10.280
+because they are designed around,
+
+00:05:12.080 --> 00:05:12.580
+you know, a commercial radio distribution.
+
+00:05:15.140 --> 00:05:15.580
+I guess I'm dating myself by saying radio,
+
+00:05:17.120 --> 00:05:17.620
+but you know all the that.
+
+00:05:20.940 --> 00:05:21.440
+In the middle there are longer works like
+
+00:05:26.100 --> 00:05:26.600
+musicals and classical where these are units
+
+00:05:30.200 --> 00:05:30.360
+where they might be very long but you would
+
+00:05:33.160 --> 00:05:33.420
+have several tracks that you do want to have
+
+00:05:35.600 --> 00:05:35.800
+1 after the other, and you want to be able to
+
+00:05:38.360 --> 00:05:38.860
+stop and go to the next track.
+
+00:05:40.760 --> 00:05:41.260
+And then at the very, very other end,
+
+00:05:44.020 --> 00:05:44.520
+you have extremely long format,
+
+00:05:46.360 --> 00:05:46.860
+which is included in a single file,
+
+00:05:47.920 --> 00:05:48.420
+such as an audio book,
+
+00:05:51.400 --> 00:05:51.900
+a movie, a tutorial that you're watching,
+
+00:05:54.100 --> 00:05:54.320
+or in my case, you know,
+
+00:05:56.580 --> 00:05:57.040
+a 24 hour, the 24 hours of Le Mans,
+
+00:05:58.040 --> 00:05:58.440
+just the 24 hour race,
+
+00:06:01.120 --> 00:06:01.620
+which, you know, that's 1 heck of a file.
+
+00:06:07.380 --> 00:06:07.660
+So that is 1 of the reasons eMMS has a number
+
+00:06:10.160 --> 00:06:10.640
+of elements such as the meta playlist mode
+
+00:06:11.260 --> 00:06:11.760
+and multiple playlists.
+
+00:06:16.160 --> 00:06:16.480
+So I would say that they would open a number
+
+00:06:19.540 --> 00:06:19.680
+of playlists in eMMS, generate a number of
+
+00:06:26.040 --> 00:06:26.540
+playlists that have each class of media.
+
+00:06:28.940 --> 00:06:29.320
+So the shorter form songs,
+
+00:06:33.580 --> 00:06:34.080
+the more pop songs you have in 1 playlist
+
+00:06:35.920 --> 00:06:36.140
+where you can sort, shuffle it,
+
+00:06:37.800 --> 00:06:38.300
+you know, save it, do whatever you want.
+
+00:06:41.980 --> 00:06:42.360
+Then a separate playlist for the long form
+
+00:06:44.340 --> 00:06:44.840
+stuff. Sometimes that playlist will have even
+
+00:06:48.960 --> 00:06:49.460
+only 1 file in it if it's long enough,
+
+00:06:52.120 --> 00:06:52.300
+then have a key combination which takes you
+
+00:06:55.280 --> 00:06:55.780
+directly to 1 playlist or the other,
+
+00:06:57.340 --> 00:06:57.840
+and within the long-form playlist,
+
+00:07:01.980 --> 00:07:02.480
+looking at the bookmarking function of EMMS,
+
+00:07:06.560 --> 00:07:06.660
+which is designed around being able to save a
+
+00:07:10.080 --> 00:07:10.580
+particular stopping point or multiple
+
+00:07:12.240 --> 00:07:12.540
+stopping points, bookmarks in the audio,
+
+00:07:15.300 --> 00:07:15.800
+and being able to jump back into that audio.
+
+00:07:18.600 --> 00:07:19.100
+The point to remember about the bookmarking
+
+00:07:23.720 --> 00:07:24.220
+feature is that sometimes it really depends
+
+00:07:25.960 --> 00:07:26.460
+on you have to have the right back end.
+
+00:07:28.900 --> 00:07:29.400
+Not all back ends with replaying,
+
+00:07:33.120 --> 00:07:33.220
+not all types of media work well with a
+
+00:07:36.200 --> 00:07:36.660
+bookmarking function, and bug reports
+
+00:07:38.960 --> 00:07:39.460
+welcome. But also there are other backends
+
+00:07:44.820 --> 00:07:45.140
+such as MPV where you can configure it that
+
+00:07:49.860 --> 00:07:50.360
+when you quit playing the song or the media
+
+00:07:55.080 --> 00:07:55.580
+with, you know, cue internally.
+
+00:07:58.140 --> 00:07:58.640
+So sometimes the back end has to continue
+
+00:08:04.400 --> 00:08:04.700
+playing that song. That's what I do in order
+
+00:08:07.560 --> 00:08:08.060
+to, on 1 hand, switch over to a...
+
+00:08:09.620 --> 00:08:10.000
+I want to hear... I'm coding,
+
+00:08:10.800 --> 00:08:11.240
+I want to hear some music,
+
+00:08:12.860 --> 00:08:13.360
+I go to my playlist of short songs,
+
+00:08:16.280 --> 00:08:16.560
+then I'm sitting back and I want to watch a
+
+00:08:20.340 --> 00:08:20.540
+long form something from where I left off and
+
+00:08:22.420 --> 00:08:22.740
+there I go to the other playlist and use
+
+00:08:26.140 --> 00:08:26.380
+bookmarks or the features of the back end
+
+00:08:26.780 --> 00:08:27.280
+that I'm using.
+
+00:08:31.200 --> 00:08:31.700
+[Speaker 0]: Okay, thank you for the answer.
+
+00:08:34.440 --> 00:08:34.679
+We have about 7 minutes and we have more
+
+00:08:35.280 --> 00:08:35.780
+questions, so that's great.
+
+00:08:37.440 --> 00:08:37.940
+Moving on to the next 1.
+
+00:08:40.080 --> 00:08:40.240
+Is there a way to search a music selection by
+
+00:08:42.080 --> 00:08:42.240
+lyrics? Assuming those lyrics are in the
+
+00:08:43.580 --> 00:08:44.080
+metadata or are available elsewhere,
+
+00:08:46.300 --> 00:08:46.400
+it would be neat to call songs up from the
+
+00:08:48.660 --> 00:08:49.160
+lyrics to the song. Perhaps is this
+
+00:08:50.860 --> 00:08:51.360
+implemented so that you can all aliases,
+
+00:08:54.560 --> 00:08:54.720
+so they can use aliases for the song that you
+
+00:08:56.640 --> 00:08:57.100
+like, defining those aliases or shortcuts
+
+00:08:58.200 --> 00:08:58.680
+either inside or outside eMMS?
+
+00:08:59.760 --> 00:09:00.060
+Okay, so I think you've got 2 questions.
+
+00:09:01.500 --> 00:09:02.000
+First about the lyrics and then the aliases.
+
+00:09:08.360 --> 00:09:08.560
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, so it's effectively not possible to do
+
+00:09:10.880 --> 00:09:11.120
+right now. There's a sense in which it is,
+
+00:09:14.820 --> 00:09:15.020
+but not really. What actually needs to
+
+00:09:18.840 --> 00:09:19.320
+happen? The problem is that the caching
+
+00:09:21.780 --> 00:09:22.280
+system is extremely naive.
+
+00:09:24.800 --> 00:09:24.960
+It's just really a hash that's written to
+
+00:09:30.560 --> 00:09:31.060
+disk. And maybe now with SQLite integration
+
+00:09:35.200 --> 00:09:35.380
+or other or just the fact that computers have
+
+00:09:39.220 --> 00:09:39.440
+a lot more speed and space than they used to
+
+00:09:43.340 --> 00:09:43.580
+have, we need to expand the cache to be a lot
+
+00:09:47.020 --> 00:09:47.520
+more greedy and a lot more flexible so that
+
+00:09:52.580 --> 00:09:52.860
+we can store things such as lyrics in as part
+
+00:09:56.000 --> 00:09:56.200
+of the metadata. There's no reason not to do
+
+00:10:02.220 --> 00:10:02.440
+that. Unless your collection would have to be
+
+00:10:06.560 --> 00:10:07.060
+truly enormous in order to slow things down.
+
+00:10:09.860 --> 00:10:10.200
+We wouldn't even need to compress the lyrics
+
+00:10:11.320 --> 00:10:11.820
+in order to store them like that.
+
+00:10:15.920 --> 00:10:16.120
+But that is a goal. So our rewrite of the
+
+00:10:17.840 --> 00:10:18.340
+cache is currently in progress,
+
+00:10:21.680 --> 00:10:21.940
+and the goal is to have a system where you
+
+00:10:24.920 --> 00:10:25.420
+can put any related information,
+
+00:10:30.060 --> 00:10:30.220
+including lyrics, and map that to a
+
+00:10:31.400 --> 00:10:31.900
+particular piece of the media,
+
+00:10:36.900 --> 00:10:37.060
+be it a URL or a... So you could have in a
+
+00:10:40.080 --> 00:10:40.240
+sense, you could have a URL to a lecture and
+
+00:10:44.440 --> 00:10:44.800
+the metadata associated would be some text,
+
+00:10:47.600 --> 00:10:48.100
+some notes or something else like that.
+
+00:10:51.140 --> 00:10:51.380
+[Speaker 0]: Right, so that was about the lyrics.
+
+00:10:53.040 --> 00:10:53.260
+I'm not sure how it answers the question
+
+00:10:54.560 --> 00:10:54.960
+about the aliases. I mean you can still
+
+00:10:56.380 --> 00:10:56.880
+filter what you've mentioned about the cache.
+
+00:10:59.240 --> 00:10:59.440
+I think it's... Do we consider the aliases to
+
+00:11:01.120 --> 00:11:01.620
+be anything within the metadata?
+
+00:11:08.040 --> 00:11:08.540
+[Speaker 1]: No, you're right. That is a separate
+
+00:11:12.380 --> 00:11:12.540
+question. I don't have a great answer for
+
+00:11:12.980 --> 00:11:13.480
+that right now.
+
+00:11:16.280 --> 00:11:16.500
+[Speaker 0]: Okay, great. Well, we'll put a pin on this
+
+00:11:17.440 --> 00:11:17.940
+and we can return to it.
+
+00:11:19.690 --> 00:11:19.840
+You can return to it at a later stage.
+
+00:11:21.880 --> 00:11:22.080
+Yeah. All right, moving on to the next
+
+00:11:22.800 --> 00:11:23.160
+question, then. I'll just,
+
+00:11:25.180 --> 00:11:25.680
+we'll put a pin on this.
+
+00:11:26.420 --> 00:11:26.920
+All right, next question.
+
+00:11:29.020 --> 00:11:29.220
+Are there plans for managing metadata with
+
+00:11:30.040 --> 00:11:30.540
+online resource backends,
+
+00:11:32.020 --> 00:11:32.440
+i.e. Discogs or music brains?
+
+00:11:34.360 --> 00:11:34.540
+What about something like Beats and Emacs or
+
+00:11:34.920 --> 00:11:35.420
+part of the EMMS?
+
+00:11:40.520 --> 00:11:40.640
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, so that's an active discussion on the
+
+00:11:42.140 --> 00:11:42.640
+mailing list right now.
+
+00:11:47.340 --> 00:11:47.840
+We don't want to replicate what Beats does
+
+00:11:49.680 --> 00:11:50.180
+very, very well in eMMS.
+
+00:11:53.860 --> 00:11:54.360
+We don't want a clunky interface with Beats.
+
+00:11:57.440 --> 00:11:57.940
+We do want some kind of,
+
+00:12:00.100 --> 00:12:00.300
+and so it's hard to tell exactly where to
+
+00:12:03.160 --> 00:12:03.460
+draw that line. So the big answer is yes,
+
+00:12:04.960 --> 00:12:05.460
+absolutely, there is a plan to do that.
+
+00:12:09.760 --> 00:12:10.000
+The details become complicated because for 1
+
+00:12:15.900 --> 00:12:16.200
+thing, the backend, the database that
+
+00:12:18.140 --> 00:12:18.640
+MusicBrain uses, AcoustID,
+
+00:12:21.500 --> 00:12:21.820
+I don't remember if AcoustID is the binary or
+
+00:12:25.680 --> 00:12:25.960
+the database, but that's actually for
+
+00:12:27.500 --> 00:12:28.000
+non-commercial use only.
+
+00:12:31.320 --> 00:12:31.500
+So not only do you need to compile a piece of
+
+00:12:35.280 --> 00:12:35.760
+software on your computer as a shim,
+
+00:12:37.540 --> 00:12:37.680
+which is what you need to do in order to set
+
+00:12:39.180 --> 00:12:39.680
+up beats to do fingerprinting.
+
+00:12:44.720 --> 00:12:45.220
+But it also crosses this line between
+
+00:12:47.660 --> 00:12:47.900
+completely free software to completely free
+
+00:12:49.400 --> 00:12:49.900
+software interfacing with a non-commercial
+
+00:12:56.000 --> 00:12:56.420
+only service. So a lot of the discussion
+
+00:12:58.660 --> 00:12:59.160
+that's going on now is what is the contour?
+
+00:13:02.160 --> 00:13:02.660
+Where would be where we would be effective
+
+00:13:08.720 --> 00:13:09.220
+for EMMS to do management and where not?
+
+00:13:11.600 --> 00:13:12.100
+For 1 thing, I would love to be able to...
+
+00:13:13.980 --> 00:13:14.100
+1 thing that we definitely would love to be
+
+00:13:18.340 --> 00:13:18.540
+able to do is when you hit E on a file and
+
+00:13:21.540 --> 00:13:22.040
+you get all the metadata to be able to then
+
+00:13:23.000 --> 00:13:23.200
+give a command to say,
+
+00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:25.520
+hey, play to music brains and see if you can
+
+00:13:26.200 --> 00:13:26.700
+improve that metadata.
+
+00:13:29.020 --> 00:13:29.520
+Do you have better metadata,
+
+00:13:33.400 --> 00:13:33.680
+more complete metadata to complete that?
+
+00:13:35.840 --> 00:13:36.340
+That is definitely in the pipeline.
+
+00:13:40.900 --> 00:13:41.400
+How best to do it, that's a discussion.
+
+00:13:45.460 --> 00:13:45.840
+[Speaker 0]: Okay, Yoni, we have about 2 minutes until we
+
+00:13:46.960 --> 00:13:47.460
+need to go to the next talk.
+
+00:13:52.960 --> 00:13:53.080
+Okay, I'll risk it. 1 more question and a
+
+00:13:53.800 --> 00:13:54.300
+short answer if you can.
+
+00:13:57.440 --> 00:13:57.860
+Have the developers considered using Emacs
+
+00:13:59.060 --> 00:13:59.560
+customized functionality to persistently
+
+00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:02.120
+store settings when using eMMS setup discover
+
+00:14:02.120 --> 00:14:02.620
+players?
+
+00:14:08.000 --> 00:14:08.460
+[Speaker 1]: Yes, absolutely. That's another active place,
+
+00:14:11.840 --> 00:14:12.340
+especially with the discover players.
+
+00:14:14.440 --> 00:14:14.940
+How to do it exactly without annoying people
+
+00:14:17.840 --> 00:14:18.340
+and clobbering their own settings,
+
+00:14:20.360 --> 00:14:20.680
+we just need to be very careful about that.
+
+00:14:23.040 --> 00:14:23.540
+Yes, that's in the coming releases.
+
+00:14:26.520 --> 00:14:26.940
+[Speaker 0]: All right, well, Younif,
+
+00:14:27.900 --> 00:14:28.400
+thank you so much for your time.
+
+00:14:29.440 --> 00:14:29.640
+Feel free to stay in the room.
+
+00:14:30.920 --> 00:14:31.240
+I see that some people have started joining
+
+00:14:33.720 --> 00:14:34.220
+on BBB. If you have more questions,
+
+00:14:36.780 --> 00:14:37.020
+feel free to unmute yourself and ask them
+
+00:14:39.520 --> 00:14:39.900
+live. Younid, I could ask you also to perhaps
+
+00:14:41.600 --> 00:14:41.760
+answer the question. I've put the link to the
+
+00:14:43.980 --> 00:14:44.480
+pad in the BBB chat, so if you look at the...
+
+00:14:47.220 --> 00:14:47.640
+Here, I think, we're not mirrored on BBB.
+
+00:14:49.080 --> 00:14:49.280
+If you look at the left you should be able to
+
+00:14:51.500 --> 00:14:51.580
+see the chat and the questions and if you
+
+00:14:52.720 --> 00:14:52.840
+could just answer the last question that
+
+00:14:55.440 --> 00:14:55.640
+would be great. For us on the general track
+
+00:14:57.980 --> 00:14:58.180
+we will be moving to the next talk and
+
+00:14:59.700 --> 00:14:59.820
+Yannick do you have any last thing to say in
+
+00:15:02.720 --> 00:15:02.900
+[Speaker 1]: Thank everyone who put together the
+
+00:15:04.320 --> 00:15:04.820
+conference and thank you to everyone who
+
+00:15:06.680 --> 00:15:07.180
+helps with the EMMS.
+
+00:15:08.160 --> 00:15:08.440
+[Speaker 0]: 10 seconds? All right,
+
+00:15:09.160 --> 00:15:09.440
+well, thank you so much,
+
+00:15:10.940 --> 00:15:11.440
+Yoni. We'll probably see you later.
+
+00:15:17.720 --> 00:15:17.860
+Bye-bye. Wonderful. And I think we are off
+
+00:15:18.620 --> 00:15:18.760
+air. Thank you so much,
+
+00:15:20.800 --> 00:15:20.920
+Juni. I need to step out and go take care of
+
+00:15:23.260 --> 00:15:23.760
+[Speaker 1]: Okay, wonderful. Thank you very much.
+
+00:15:24.080 --> 00:15:24.520
+[Speaker 0]: the next talk. Bye-bye.
+
+00:15:25.520 --> 00:15:25.760
+And just to, I forgot to mention,
+
+00:15:27.160 --> 00:15:27.260
+but you can still talk here and everything is
+
+00:15:28.320 --> 00:15:28.620
+still being recorded. So,
+
+00:15:28.880 --> 00:15:28.940
+I'll see you later.
+
+00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:32.820
+[Speaker 2]: Excellent. Bye-bye. Bye.
+
+00:15:35.600 --> 00:15:36.100
+[Speaker 3]: Oh, hello.
+
+00:15:40.600 --> 00:15:41.100
+[Speaker 1]: Wait, you're still, I cannot hear you yet.
+
+00:15:42.900 --> 00:15:43.080
+[Speaker 4]: You are currently the only person in this
+
+00:15:43.080 --> 00:15:43.580
+conference.
+
+00:16:12.600 --> 00:16:12.780
+[Speaker 2]: Okay.
+
+00:16:18.120 --> 00:16:18.400
+[Speaker 3]: Can you hear me now? I just wanted to say hi
+
+00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:20.320
+and thank you. My name's Grant.
+
+00:16:23.740 --> 00:16:24.220
+I've, you helped me contribute to EMMS maybe
+
+00:16:26.820 --> 00:16:26.980
+2 or 3 years ago. I was trying to do the
+
+00:16:28.480 --> 00:16:28.980
+[Speaker 2]: So,
+
+00:16:29.340 --> 00:16:29.840
+[Speaker 3]: track tag stuff. yeah.
+
+00:16:32.148 --> 00:16:32.571
+So I just wanted to say thank you.
+
+00:16:35.400 --> 00:16:35.680
+[Speaker 1]: Thank you for continuing and going through
+
+00:16:38.560 --> 00:16:38.680
+that entire process. I know that 1 of the
+
+00:16:40.380 --> 00:16:40.520
+things that happens is that people want to
+
+00:16:43.940 --> 00:16:44.440
+contribute, but it's not as slick as GitHub
+
+00:16:46.080 --> 00:16:46.580
+and stuff like that, especially with the
+
+00:16:53.400 --> 00:16:53.900
+copper assignment. And objectively,
+
+00:16:56.920 --> 00:16:57.420
+it's not that. It's just harder than what
+
+00:16:58.680 --> 00:16:59.180
+they imagine it might be.
+
+00:17:01.500 --> 00:17:01.680
+[Speaker 3]: Yeah. Well, I appreciate it.
+
+00:17:03.340 --> 00:17:03.440
+I think you're doing a wonderful job as a
+
+00:17:07.200 --> 00:17:07.660
+maintainer. I still hang out on the list and
+
+00:17:09.380 --> 00:17:09.880
+enjoy listening in on the discussions.
+
+00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:10.460
+So.
+
+00:17:14.240 --> 00:17:14.626
+[Speaker 2]: Yeah. But that's it. I think that's it.
+
+00:17:16.700 --> 00:17:17.200
+I think that's it. And I think that's it.
+
+00:17:17.640 --> 00:17:17.890
+And I think that's it.
+
+00:17:23.339 --> 00:17:23.660
+I appreciate it. And I'll leave you to all of
+
+00:17:27.781 --> 00:17:27.811
+you to go on from being a product.
+
+00:17:28.088 --> 00:17:28.118
+And that she valued to all of us long term
+
+00:17:28.180 --> 00:17:28.680
+being a project.
+
+00:17:31.460 --> 00:17:31.960
+[Speaker 1]: If you're not super duper active,
+
+00:17:33.420 --> 00:17:33.720
+being there long term,
+
+00:17:37.360 --> 00:17:37.860
+people tend to find it easier trying to
+
+00:17:40.840 --> 00:17:41.060
+continue contributing to the project if
+
+00:17:42.360 --> 00:17:42.620
+there's a consistency there,
+
+00:17:43.520 --> 00:17:44.020
+if there isn't a churn,
+
+00:17:47.720 --> 00:17:48.160
+if there is a kind of a core group.
+
+00:17:52.440 --> 00:17:52.940
+I guess it's like, you think it's constant.
+
+00:17:58.280 --> 00:17:58.780
+Eliezer Etzke and RMS,
+
+00:18:00.420 --> 00:18:00.920
+whatever on the next mailing list,
+
+00:18:03.040 --> 00:18:03.540
+You know, okay, there are certain people that
+
+00:18:05.600 --> 00:18:05.800
+I think so. So thank you for that.
+
+00:18:06.340 --> 00:18:06.840
+That's very important.
+
+00:18:07.540 --> 00:18:08.040
+That helps.
+
+00:18:12.560 --> 00:18:12.940
+[Speaker 3]: Yeah, I'm, I feel like when I started using
+
+00:18:14.180 --> 00:18:14.540
+EMMS several years ago,
+
+00:18:16.500 --> 00:18:16.820
+it's, it's improved a lot since then.
+
+00:18:19.540 --> 00:18:20.040
+And I notice your focus on helping new users
+
+00:18:22.540 --> 00:18:22.800
+get started quickly. And I think the talk
+
+00:18:23.840 --> 00:18:24.160
+today will help with that too.
+
+00:18:24.160 --> 00:18:24.660
+So
+
+00:18:32.380 --> 00:18:32.700
+[Speaker 1]: yeah, I want to put you know,
+
+00:18:33.860 --> 00:18:34.360
+the, especially the TLDR,
+
+00:18:37.500 --> 00:18:37.640
+like how to start it on the link that to the
+
+00:18:44.080 --> 00:18:44.380
+website, find somehow that we can get on to
+
+00:18:52.900 --> 00:18:53.400
+prepare for that. And this together.
+
+00:18:54.700 --> 00:18:55.200
+Now, question for you,
+
+00:18:58.260 --> 00:18:58.620
+Where would you like to see EMMS go?
+
+00:18:59.440 --> 00:18:59.820
+Where do you see it landing?
+
+00:19:02.780 --> 00:19:02.900
+What do you feel like this is what this is
+
+00:19:04.540 --> 00:19:05.040
+we're sorely missing these things?
+
+00:19:09.740 --> 00:19:10.240
+[Speaker 3]: I don't know. I mean, I picked it up,
+
+00:19:13.540 --> 00:19:13.940
+because I both use it to play my music
+
+00:19:17.100 --> 00:19:17.320
+collection, but also, like I record my own
+
+00:19:20.140 --> 00:19:20.320
+music. And I wanted to be able to edit my
+
+00:19:23.500 --> 00:19:24.000
+metadata in Emacs, because editing metadata
+
+00:19:29.100 --> 00:19:29.220
+elsewhere sucks. And so that's kind of why I
+
+00:19:30.280 --> 00:19:30.560
+got involved with that.
+
+00:19:33.440 --> 00:19:33.940
+And I was like, being able to edit metadata,
+
+00:19:37.580 --> 00:19:37.900
+especially for content that maybe you're
+
+00:19:41.760 --> 00:19:42.180
+creating or because I have a bunch of files
+
+00:19:44.340 --> 00:19:44.700
+of just unlabeled stuff I've recorded on,
+
+00:19:45.340 --> 00:19:45.780
+you know, different quarters,
+
+00:19:47.440 --> 00:19:47.520
+things like that. So that's kind of where I
+
+00:19:50.320 --> 00:19:50.740
+was focusing on it. It's the only media tool
+
+00:19:52.540 --> 00:19:52.720
+that lets me do that, you know,
+
+00:19:54.520 --> 00:19:54.940
+I can play the music back and have quick
+
+00:19:58.260 --> 00:19:58.380
+editing. So I know there was a couple of
+
+00:20:00.860 --> 00:20:01.120
+things we had talked about in terms of maybe
+
+00:20:03.260 --> 00:20:03.480
+improving kind of the user interface for the
+
+00:20:05.440 --> 00:20:05.940
+tag editor, things like that.
+
+00:20:09.300 --> 00:20:09.600
+So I don't have any grand visions for where
+
+00:20:15.660 --> 00:20:15.800
+EMMS should go. I know pretty much all the
+
+00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:17.420
+things I've heard about it already.
+
+00:20:20.200 --> 00:20:20.700
+You can hook up to GNU FM,
+
+00:20:21.940 --> 00:20:22.440
+the Scrabbling Service,
+
+00:20:23.200 --> 00:20:23.700
+and all that kind of stuff.
+
+00:20:26.920 --> 00:20:27.180
+I don't really feel like it's missing much,
+
+00:20:29.020 --> 00:20:29.280
+especially being able to choose the back
+
+00:20:31.880 --> 00:20:32.320
+ends. I guess, if anything,
+
+00:20:34.960 --> 00:20:35.220
+it's the interface. How can it be even more
+
+00:20:38.160 --> 00:20:38.660
+intuitive for users? And I think that,
+
+00:20:41.500 --> 00:20:41.820
+you know, we need more people playing around
+
+00:20:43.380 --> 00:20:43.880
+with it, I guess. Yeah.
+
+00:20:46.220 --> 00:20:46.420
+[Speaker 2]: I think a really good
+
+00:20:47.520 --> 00:20:47.800
+[Speaker 1]: Well, yeah. example of that is,
+
+00:20:49.240 --> 00:20:49.600
+because I'm sure there are lots of people
+
+00:20:50.440 --> 00:20:50.740
+playing around with it,
+
+00:20:51.460 --> 00:20:51.960
+arriving at a conclusion,
+
+00:20:53.860 --> 00:20:54.360
+keeping it to themselves and moving on.
+
+00:20:59.160 --> 00:20:59.300
+Yeah. Which, and I know that a lot of bits of
+
+00:21:01.820 --> 00:21:02.160
+software put a send a bug report feature in
+
+00:21:04.660 --> 00:21:05.020
+and stuff like that and no 1 uses those
+
+00:21:07.600 --> 00:21:08.000
+either. So that's the frictional cost.
+
+00:21:10.440 --> 00:21:10.940
+I think the context switch for people between
+
+00:21:16.120 --> 00:21:16.360
+this doesn't work to actually formulating in
+
+00:21:17.840 --> 00:21:18.340
+words what didn't work,
+
+00:21:21.380 --> 00:21:21.600
+that is a very expensive context which most
+
+00:21:24.800 --> 00:21:24.980
+people will not do. And we're poorer for
+
+00:21:32.220 --> 00:21:32.660
+that. So, I think that when we integrate
+
+00:21:34.740 --> 00:21:35.240
+music brains and other things like that into.
+
+00:21:37.460 --> 00:21:37.960
+Now, of course, music brains will probably,
+
+00:21:41.200 --> 00:21:41.380
+it would be very funny if you pull up your
+
+00:21:43.480 --> 00:21:43.660
+stuff, right? Something that you wrote and
+
+00:21:46.080 --> 00:21:46.280
+you say, hey, music brains match this and
+
+00:21:48.600 --> 00:21:49.000
+it's not there, then it'll probably suggest
+
+00:21:51.720 --> 00:21:52.220
+[Speaker 3]: Yeah, I've heard that.
+
+00:21:52.660 --> 00:21:52.940
+[Speaker 1]: some wild things. Yeah,
+
+00:21:58.260 --> 00:21:58.400
+because there are, there was a system I was
+
+00:22:02.060 --> 00:22:02.220
+looking at its code for researching stuff for
+
+00:22:04.480 --> 00:22:04.700
+EMS And I'm trying to remember what it's
+
+00:22:05.720 --> 00:22:06.040
+named. It begins with a J,
+
+00:22:07.160 --> 00:22:07.660
+it's this media player,
+
+00:22:13.780 --> 00:22:13.940
+free floss media player that it's like a
+
+00:22:17.020 --> 00:22:17.520
+media server that can cast to a television
+
+00:22:20.940 --> 00:22:21.220
+and stuff like that. And I asked it to
+
+00:22:24.280 --> 00:22:24.780
+automatically label things and the results
+
+00:22:28.180 --> 00:22:28.380
+were horrible. It thought that half of my
+
+00:22:32.960 --> 00:22:33.400
+songs were movies. It thought that JPEGs were
+
+00:22:35.800 --> 00:22:36.220
+songs. It just, it did some,
+
+00:22:40.520 --> 00:22:41.020
+it did incredibly, it's not a solved problem,
+
+00:22:44.660 --> 00:22:45.160
+I think. So the, what I'm thinking with
+
+00:22:49.340 --> 00:22:49.540
+MusicBrainz and those services is that you
+
+00:22:51.840 --> 00:22:52.240
+hit a button and you have you get another
+
+00:22:57.040 --> 00:22:57.240
+pane with a suggestion and you either and you
+
+00:22:59.060 --> 00:22:59.240
+can copy through you can say okay copy this
+
+00:23:01.560 --> 00:23:01.760
+and this in this field over or reject the
+
+00:23:03.960 --> 00:23:04.460
+suggestion and maybe get another 1.
+
+00:23:04.940 --> 00:23:05.280
+So,
+
+00:23:07.360 --> 00:23:07.660
+[Speaker 3]: Yeah, I like that a lot.
+
+00:23:09.160 --> 00:23:09.480
+That's more like a diff,
+
+00:23:11.280 --> 00:23:11.640
+right? Like you get the diff between the 2
+
+00:23:13.540 --> 00:23:14.040
+and you can apply which changes you like.
+
+00:23:15.580 --> 00:23:16.080
+Yeah. Was it Jellyfin?
+
+00:23:18.220 --> 00:23:18.720
+Is that... Jellyfin? Yeah,
+
+00:23:19.460 --> 00:23:19.960
+[Speaker 1]: Jellyfin, yes.
+
+00:23:22.340 --> 00:23:22.840
+[Speaker 3]: Yeah, And when that happened,
+
+00:23:24.960 --> 00:23:25.460
+did it clobber all your metadata?
+
+00:23:27.440 --> 00:23:27.940
+Or does it just label stuff?
+
+00:23:28.860 --> 00:23:29.360
+[Speaker 2]: No, it...
+
+00:23:38.240 --> 00:23:38.740
+[Speaker 1]: Escalate things somewhere inside it and to
+
+00:23:49.020 --> 00:23:49.340
+looking for really, not allow me to do very
+
+00:23:54.640 --> 00:23:55.080
+easily. So I was, so, you know,
+
+00:23:56.660 --> 00:23:56.960
+on 1 hand, it makes me feel,
+
+00:23:58.980 --> 00:23:59.120
+oh, we're not the only ones dealing with
+
+00:24:00.680 --> 00:24:00.840
+this. We're not the only ones struggling with
+
+00:24:01.440 --> 00:24:01.800
+this. On the other hand,
+
+00:24:05.660 --> 00:24:05.820
+it would be nice if that's a paragon that we
+
+00:24:08.460 --> 00:24:08.680
+can look to and say, this is a wonderful way
+
+00:24:11.320 --> 00:24:11.540
+of doing it. Let's incorporate as much of
+
+00:24:15.180 --> 00:24:15.520
+[Speaker 3]: Yeah, it's a tricky problem,
+
+00:24:18.220 --> 00:24:18.620
+especially if you're modifying people's media
+
+00:24:19.780 --> 00:24:20.280
+files you know so
+
+00:24:23.040 --> 00:24:23.420
+[Speaker 1]: that as we can. yeah I'm also very convinced
+
+00:24:31.560 --> 00:24:32.060
+that so I'm not a mainframe for MMS because
+
+00:24:35.020 --> 00:24:35.520
+I'm old and curmudgeonly essentially in my,
+
+00:24:37.660 --> 00:24:37.900
+in the way they do it.
+
+00:24:40.080 --> 00:24:40.520
+And honestly, I rarely ever,
+
+00:24:42.780 --> 00:24:43.180
+I use the MMS browser when I need to debug
+
+00:24:44.240 --> 00:24:44.660
+the MS browser. I don't,
+
+00:24:48.740 --> 00:24:49.240
+I use very simple commands and I even rarely
+
+00:24:50.440 --> 00:24:50.940
+look at the playlists.
+
+00:24:53.940 --> 00:24:54.220
+That was 1 of the things because when I got
+
+00:24:56.680 --> 00:24:57.100
+into MMS originally when my eyesight started
+
+00:24:59.640 --> 00:25:00.140
+going so I had to rely less and less on GUI
+
+00:25:02.800 --> 00:25:03.300
+interfaces. So that was,
+
+00:25:06.340 --> 00:25:06.840
+so to this day that's how I use EMMS.
+
+00:25:08.560 --> 00:25:09.060
+[Speaker 3]: Yeah, it's interesting.
+
+00:25:13.260 --> 00:25:13.760
+I remember running into a browser bug because
+
+00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:15.980
+I think just my age, like,
+
+00:25:18.120 --> 00:25:18.340
+I want to be able to tab through and like
+
+00:25:20.060 --> 00:25:20.560
+that was a huge that that changed recently
+
+00:25:22.640 --> 00:25:22.800
+right where you tab and it unfolds in the
+
+00:25:27.620 --> 00:25:27.980
+browser but yeah I realized that people use
+
+00:25:30.600 --> 00:25:31.100
+emms in so many different ways just like any
+
+00:25:36.020 --> 00:25:36.220
+piece of emacs there's there's many ways to
+
+00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:40.440
+do it but appreciate your time I'm gonna
+
+00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:42.260
+actually put together this Christmas tree
+
+00:25:43.400 --> 00:25:43.900
+[Speaker 0]: So. Wonderful.
+
+00:25:45.260 --> 00:25:45.660
+[Speaker 3]: behind me. Yeah, just wanted to say hi,
+
+00:25:50.900 --> 00:25:51.400
+meet you in person. But yeah.
+
+00:25:54.340 --> 00:25:54.840
+[Speaker 1]: Yeah, excellent. I appreciate it a lot and we
+
+00:25:55.080 --> 00:25:55.580
+generate
+
+00:25:59.960 --> 00:26:00.260
+[Speaker 2]: some interesting questions.
+
+00:26:00.780 --> 00:26:01.280
+Yeah, thank you.
+
+00:26:03.760 --> 00:26:03.960
+[Speaker 4]: You are currently the only person in this
+
+00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:04.460
+conference.
+
+00:26:13.480 --> 00:26:13.980
+[Speaker 1]: I'm going to have a look at the questions
+
+00:26:14.060 --> 00:26:14.560
+here.
+
+00:26:29.440 --> 00:26:29.940
+Let's see. Let's see. So there is,
+
+00:26:32.900 --> 00:26:33.260
+okay. There's a question here.
+
+00:26:34.540 --> 00:26:34.680
+I like what you said about balancing the
+
+00:26:36.140 --> 00:26:36.380
+concern for software freedom with the worry
+
+00:26:38.360 --> 00:26:38.560
+that this might alienate the package user.
+
+00:26:39.960 --> 00:26:40.120
+I wonder if you have advice for other
+
+00:26:41.720 --> 00:26:41.820
+maintainers how to communicate this sort of
+
+00:26:43.660 --> 00:26:44.120
+thing diplomatically? Yes,
+
+00:26:45.660 --> 00:26:46.160
+when you have to deny implementing a feature
+
+00:26:48.480 --> 00:26:48.980
+for a freedom reason. This in fact happens
+
+00:26:56.140 --> 00:26:56.320
+all the time. A recent example of this was a
+
+00:26:58.380 --> 00:26:58.580
+YouTube download, right,
+
+00:26:59.540 --> 00:27:00.040
+the YouTube download feature.
+
+00:27:04.040 --> 00:27:04.540
+At the time, okay, so stepping back,
+
+00:27:07.440 --> 00:27:07.940
+the request was to have a YouTube download
+
+00:27:11.940 --> 00:27:12.440
+feature integrated strongly into eMMS so that
+
+00:27:16.260 --> 00:27:16.640
+you put in a YouTube URL and you can download
+
+00:27:17.640 --> 00:27:18.140
+the video and play it.
+
+00:27:22.080 --> 00:27:22.280
+And the question isn't really whether you can
+
+00:27:24.660 --> 00:27:25.120
+chain YouTube Downloader or 1 of those things
+
+00:27:26.600 --> 00:27:27.100
+into your EMMS configuration.
+
+00:27:28.140 --> 00:27:28.520
+You can do whatever you want.
+
+00:27:30.840 --> 00:27:31.340
+But the question is, does EMMS actually
+
+00:27:33.340 --> 00:27:33.740
+integrate with it really,
+
+00:27:35.740 --> 00:27:36.040
+really strongly to the extent where it tells
+
+00:27:37.800 --> 00:27:38.140
+you oh you don't need to download install
+
+00:27:40.320 --> 00:27:40.820
+please go ahead and install that or whatever
+
+00:27:43.740 --> 00:27:44.180
+and at the time we checked it we found out
+
+00:27:45.800 --> 00:27:46.120
+that you know the version that we were
+
+00:27:49.280 --> 00:27:49.780
+looking at of the YouTube download or YTDLP
+
+00:27:51.720 --> 00:27:52.220
+or whatever it was called,
+
+00:27:56.200 --> 00:27:56.580
+actually downloaded a good amount of
+
+00:27:59.200 --> 00:27:59.540
+proprietary JavaScript onto your machine and
+
+00:28:02.300 --> 00:28:02.480
+ran it, just as if you were going on to the
+
+00:28:06.560 --> 00:28:06.880
+YouTube page, which is not for me to tell
+
+00:28:09.980 --> 00:28:10.480
+people not to do if they want to do that,
+
+00:28:16.240 --> 00:28:16.460
+but it's absolutely for me not to cause to
+
+00:28:18.540 --> 00:28:19.040
+happen on the user's machine without them.
+
+00:28:21.480 --> 00:28:21.660
+1 of the last thing that I want to do in the
+
+00:28:25.980 --> 00:28:26.180
+world is have a user inside Emacs press a
+
+00:28:29.760 --> 00:28:30.160
+button and have proprietary software get
+
+00:28:32.300 --> 00:28:32.540
+downloaded behind their back and run on their
+
+00:28:38.240 --> 00:28:38.420
+machine that would be disastrous so we had to
+
+00:28:41.380 --> 00:28:41.600
+say no we had to say that's I'm sorry that's
+
+00:28:47.060 --> 00:28:47.380
+beyond the pale and in fact in doing so some
+
+00:28:51.100 --> 00:28:51.420
+people who were using this system said,
+
+00:28:53.900 --> 00:28:54.400
+actually I had no idea it was doing this
+
+00:28:56.660 --> 00:28:57.040
+behind my back. I thought it was just magic.
+
+00:28:58.860 --> 00:28:59.360
+I thought it was a YouTube video without any
+
+00:29:01.580 --> 00:29:01.780
+freedom issues. I'm going to look into it or
+
+00:29:03.120 --> 00:29:03.620
+I'm going to stop using it.
+
+00:29:11.180 --> 00:29:11.680
+So my advice would be Stand firm and just be
+
+00:29:15.040 --> 00:29:15.380
+Not not preachy. Don't tell people what they
+
+00:29:19.580 --> 00:29:19.960
+need to do be very clear about what you stand
+
+00:29:21.900 --> 00:29:22.400
+for and what the project stands for,
+
+00:29:28.660 --> 00:29:28.940
+and so they very clearly know where you
+
+00:29:30.460 --> 00:29:30.960
+stand. And I think that people actually
+
+00:29:36.540 --> 00:29:37.040
+appreciate that more than a political answer,
+
+00:29:43.540 --> 00:29:44.040
+right? That has been my experience.
+
+00:29:49.800 --> 00:29:50.000
+Now, excuse me, taking into account that 1 or
+
+00:29:52.200 --> 00:29:52.700
+2 people will tell you,
+
+00:29:54.960 --> 00:29:55.440
+this is terrible. I'm leaving.
+
+00:30:00.550 --> 00:30:00.625
+[Speaker 2]: If you do this,
+
+00:30:01.460 --> 00:30:01.620
+[Speaker 1]: This is useless. you're free software or
+
+00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:03.900
+whatever, and just leave.
+
+00:30:05.860 --> 00:30:06.360
+But some people are ornery.
+
+00:30:09.360 --> 00:30:09.620
+That's not necessarily something bad that you
+
+00:30:11.680 --> 00:30:12.180
+did. But that has happened.
+
+00:30:14.200 --> 00:30:14.700
+There are multiple stories.
+
+00:30:16.840 --> 00:30:17.080
+Because the MMS is so old,
+
+00:30:20.080 --> 00:30:20.580
+there are multiple points in which non-free
+
+00:30:23.940 --> 00:30:24.140
+software intersected with the EMS because of
+
+00:30:28.580 --> 00:30:28.820
+multimedia and we had to go the other
+
+00:30:33.300 --> 00:30:33.800
+direction and so far it has served EMS well
+
+00:30:38.240 --> 00:30:38.740
+like the project has died as a result.
+
+00:30:39.800 --> 00:30:40.200
+Of course, can't prove a negative,
+
+00:30:42.040 --> 00:30:42.540
+don't know where we would be if we had taken,
+
+00:30:44.760 --> 00:30:44.860
+gone down that route. I'm pretty sure we
+
+00:30:46.100 --> 00:30:46.600
+would need a new ELPA,
+
+00:30:50.860 --> 00:30:51.360
+and I think being so clearly integrated with
+
+00:30:55.040 --> 00:30:55.540
+emacs is a huge benefit to eMMS because it's
+
+00:30:57.660 --> 00:30:58.160
+it allows people to install it very easily.
+
+00:31:08.760 --> 00:31:09.020
+And those are all the questions that I can
+
+00:31:09.020 --> 00:31:09.520
+see.
+
+00:31:15.060 --> 00:31:15.560
+[Speaker 2]: You