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+WEBVTT
+
+
+00:00:00.040 --> 00:00:00.540
+[Speaker 0]: Here.
+
+00:00:05.140 --> 00:00:05.440
+[Speaker 1]: All right. Yeah. So thanks,
+
+00:00:06.279 --> 00:00:06.779
+Fermin, for the great talk.
+
+00:00:08.039 --> 00:00:08.540
+People have questions,
+
+00:00:12.179 --> 00:00:12.380
+please post them on the pad or the IRC as
+
+00:00:13.259 --> 00:00:13.759
+well and we'll take them up.
+
+00:00:17.240 --> 00:00:17.480
+[Speaker 2]: Thank you very much. The guests will be here
+
+00:00:21.720 --> 00:00:22.220
+to answer questions. Let's see.
+
+00:00:23.560 --> 00:00:24.060
+Yep.
+
+00:00:28.080 --> 00:00:28.220
+[Speaker 1]: And also, Fermin, if you later want to
+
+00:00:30.660 --> 00:00:31.160
+clarify anything or fix any URLs or such,
+
+00:00:32.860 --> 00:00:33.000
+you're always welcome to do that either like
+
+00:00:36.000 --> 00:00:36.140
+on the Wiki page, or if you like email any of
+
+00:00:37.560 --> 00:00:37.840
+the organizers, they should be able to help
+
+00:00:38.400 --> 00:00:38.900
+with that as well.
+
+00:00:41.000 --> 00:00:41.500
+[Speaker 2]: Okay. Yeah, I put the wrong URL.
+
+00:00:46.020 --> 00:00:46.360
+Yeah, not a big deal really,
+
+00:00:48.480 --> 00:00:48.980
+if you look it up. Yeah,
+
+00:00:50.940 --> 00:00:51.440
+that's really better. Thank you very much.
+
+00:00:56.920 --> 00:00:57.420
+Checking, no questions.
+
+00:00:58.780 --> 00:00:59.280
+Very good to be in touch.
+
+00:01:17.220 --> 00:01:17.360
+[Speaker 1]: Oh, we have a question here in the big blue
+
+00:01:17.720 --> 00:01:18.220
+button chat.
+
+00:01:21.820 --> 00:01:22.320
+[Speaker 2]: Oh, public chat. I see.
+
+00:01:26.380 --> 00:01:26.600
+Is LEM an acronym? I think it is,
+
+00:01:32.960 --> 00:01:33.080
+but I never remember. The complete name is
+
+00:01:36.160 --> 00:01:36.660
+like something... It's also a circle,
+
+00:01:38.940 --> 00:01:39.440
+like, you know, a self-referencing,
+
+00:01:41.320 --> 00:01:41.820
+you know, recursive name.
+
+00:01:42.900 --> 00:01:43.400
+I never remember it, sorry.
+
+00:01:45.860 --> 00:01:46.360
+It's like... Yeah, someone...
+
+00:01:50.580 --> 00:01:51.080
+Okay, someone asked about the DEM community,
+
+00:01:56.200 --> 00:01:56.700
+how big it is. So I don't remember,
+
+00:01:57.500 --> 00:01:57.720
+to answer the question,
+
+00:01:58.440 --> 00:01:58.740
+I don't remember the acronym,
+
+00:02:00.640 --> 00:02:01.140
+but it is an acronym. I just never...
+
+00:02:04.700 --> 00:02:05.060
+And it's not written anywhere,
+
+00:02:06.380 --> 00:02:06.880
+I think, or someone...
+
+00:02:09.340 --> 00:02:09.840
+I never check it. So I...
+
+00:02:12.720 --> 00:02:13.220
+[Speaker 0]: I forgot.
+
+00:02:15.360 --> 00:02:15.820
+[Speaker 2]: My maintainer told me once and then So,
+
+00:02:17.540 --> 00:02:17.900
+whole large, does Leia have a package
+
+00:02:19.800 --> 00:02:20.300
+manager? We do have a package manager,
+
+00:02:21.900 --> 00:02:22.400
+funnily enough. We use the QuickLisp
+
+00:02:26.200 --> 00:02:26.700
+infrastructure to get packages,
+
+00:02:29.580 --> 00:02:30.080
+so it's very easy to install packages.
+
+00:02:33.340 --> 00:02:33.840
+So basically, we don't have a package manager
+
+00:02:35.740 --> 00:02:36.240
+as in Emacs, half a packet.l.
+
+00:02:39.140 --> 00:02:39.400
+We're using the same common list
+
+00:02:41.180 --> 00:02:41.460
+infrastructure to provide the different
+
+00:02:45.560 --> 00:02:46.060
+packages. We also have a talk with the
+
+00:02:47.360 --> 00:02:47.620
+Ultralisp, which is like a,
+
+00:02:48.640 --> 00:02:48.900
+you know, QuickLisp is like,
+
+00:02:50.020 --> 00:02:50.520
+you can think quickly of Melpa.
+
+00:02:52.540 --> 00:02:53.040
+Ultralisp is like a fast Melpa,
+
+00:02:54.440 --> 00:02:54.900
+very fast Melpa, that every,
+
+00:02:58.460 --> 00:02:58.660
+I think every day you can get a package from
+
+00:03:01.720 --> 00:03:01.880
+them. And We have a tag system that you can
+
+00:03:02.920 --> 00:03:03.420
+submit a package and get a tag,
+
+00:03:08.180 --> 00:03:08.360
+and Theory can download those packages with
+
+00:03:13.140 --> 00:03:13.640
+the lem tag. So the thing is,
+
+00:03:17.040 --> 00:03:17.440
+it's not yet, it doesn't have a user
+
+00:03:18.400 --> 00:03:18.900
+interface to install packages.
+
+00:03:22.020 --> 00:03:22.520
+Still, it's 2 external packages.
+
+00:03:25.520 --> 00:03:25.920
+For now, imagine this is like the early
+
+00:03:27.560 --> 00:03:27.960
+Emacs, right? Everything is going to the core
+
+00:03:29.040 --> 00:03:29.540
+for now, because we need that functionality.
+
+00:03:32.360 --> 00:03:32.680
+In the future, we probably will split it up
+
+00:03:37.120 --> 00:03:37.620
+way more. But let me first answer a question
+
+00:03:42.440 --> 00:03:42.740
+in the other part. How large is the LEN
+
+00:03:44.440 --> 00:03:44.720
+community? Hope it's a chance of survival
+
+00:03:47.360 --> 00:03:47.860
+long term. So we are a very small community,
+
+00:03:51.260 --> 00:03:51.760
+mostly because Sasaki-san,
+
+00:03:54.120 --> 00:03:54.620
+the main developers of the community,
+
+00:03:57.160 --> 00:03:57.440
+are from Japan and some of them,
+
+00:03:58.620 --> 00:03:59.120
+or most of them, don't know English.
+
+00:04:01.640 --> 00:04:01.960
+At the beginning, LEM was a very
+
+00:04:05.020 --> 00:04:05.220
+Japanese-centric tooling because barrier of
+
+00:04:06.960 --> 00:04:07.460
+language, most of the users are from Japan.
+
+00:04:08.640 --> 00:04:09.140
+So different communities.
+
+00:04:12.040 --> 00:04:12.260
+And also, I don't know why,
+
+00:04:13.100 --> 00:04:13.520
+but the main maintainer,
+
+00:04:17.740 --> 00:04:18.079
+which is Asaki-san, very good guy and a very,
+
+00:04:19.079 --> 00:04:19.579
+very talented developer.
+
+00:04:21.779 --> 00:04:22.280
+He doesn't like to, you know,
+
+00:04:24.640 --> 00:04:25.020
+at first the project was all in Japanese,
+
+00:04:27.100 --> 00:04:27.260
+so he doesn't care if someone uses the
+
+00:04:28.520 --> 00:04:29.020
+project or not. He's more focused on the,
+
+00:04:32.080 --> 00:04:32.560
+I guess, quality of the features of it.
+
+00:04:35.740 --> 00:04:36.240
+So that creates a problem that doesn't really
+
+00:04:38.680 --> 00:04:39.000
+mind the community. So the community doesn't
+
+00:04:41.640 --> 00:04:41.760
+mind in a good way. It's to focus more on
+
+00:04:43.440 --> 00:04:43.940
+technicality rather than the user,
+
+00:04:46.300 --> 00:04:46.800
+which I mean, I cannot blame him.
+
+00:04:49.540 --> 00:04:49.700
+It's very hard work to build an Emacs and
+
+00:04:52.540 --> 00:04:53.040
+editor from scratch. It's not a trivial task.
+
+00:04:56.160 --> 00:04:56.660
+So yeah, we're a very small community.
+
+00:04:58.660 --> 00:04:58.940
+But I think the chance of survival is very
+
+00:05:01.440 --> 00:05:01.640
+good because LEM is written in ANSI Common
+
+00:05:04.540 --> 00:05:05.040
+Lisp, so it should be used in any...
+
+00:05:07.440 --> 00:05:07.940
+Well, it works in a lot of Common Lisp
+
+00:05:10.400 --> 00:05:10.900
+implementation. For people who don't know,
+
+00:05:12.180 --> 00:05:12.400
+Common Lisp is a language that was
+
+00:05:13.140 --> 00:05:13.640
+standardized in the 94.
+
+00:05:14.640 --> 00:05:14.840
+I explained that in the talk,
+
+00:05:15.660 --> 00:05:16.160
+but I'll say it again.
+
+00:05:18.080 --> 00:05:18.580
+So, if Common Lisp exists,
+
+00:05:21.200 --> 00:05:21.700
+in theory, LEM should also exist.
+
+00:05:24.340 --> 00:05:24.840
+And also if nCursor doesn't break or doesn't
+
+00:05:27.560 --> 00:05:28.060
+stop to exist, which is even less likely.
+
+00:05:30.400 --> 00:05:30.900
+So that's the main idea.
+
+00:05:33.460 --> 00:05:33.740
+And you can use LEM for very good Common Lisp
+
+00:05:36.380 --> 00:05:36.600
+development already. If Common Lisp doesn't
+
+00:05:39.440 --> 00:05:39.940
+change that much, it should disappear.
+
+00:05:42.720 --> 00:05:43.220
+We are not bound to any company or any...
+
+00:05:46.040 --> 00:05:46.540
+Even Sasaki-san, God forbid,
+
+00:05:47.720 --> 00:05:48.220
+disappears instantaneously.
+
+00:05:50.280 --> 00:05:50.740
+There are a few people,
+
+00:05:52.260 --> 00:05:52.440
+me included, that know very well the code
+
+00:05:54.020 --> 00:05:54.520
+base and we can continue the development.
+
+00:05:56.320 --> 00:05:56.720
+So it's not like 1, there's no one-man
+
+00:05:58.860 --> 00:05:59.360
+project. Maybe a four-man project or 5,
+
+00:06:04.280 --> 00:06:04.640
+but not 1. Okay, I'll answer the 1 in the
+
+00:06:08.100 --> 00:06:08.600
+chat, on the blue button.
+
+00:06:10.520 --> 00:06:10.840
+Is it best to learn Common Lisp before
+
+00:06:13.100 --> 00:06:13.600
+learning to use LEM? I think this is similar
+
+00:06:15.780 --> 00:06:16.280
+to Emacs and EmacLisp,
+
+00:06:18.740 --> 00:06:19.080
+right? Should you use EmacLisp before using
+
+00:06:20.160 --> 00:06:20.460
+Emacs? Doesn't make too much sense,
+
+00:06:23.360 --> 00:06:23.860
+right? You see Emacs and then you go learning
+
+00:06:28.620 --> 00:06:29.060
+Common Lisp. I think it's the same,
+
+00:06:30.800 --> 00:06:31.300
+sorry, EmacsLisp. And it's the same with LEM.
+
+00:06:32.800 --> 00:06:33.300
+You can start using LEM with a non-common
+
+00:06:37.800 --> 00:06:38.040
+Lisp, which is fine. You can use it to edit
+
+00:06:39.020 --> 00:06:39.520
+your things. It's like an editor.
+
+00:06:42.900 --> 00:06:43.040
+But like Emacs, LEM puts a lot of focus on
+
+00:06:46.820 --> 00:06:46.960
+extensibility. So it's very probable that you
+
+00:06:49.920 --> 00:06:50.420
+will learn how to write Common Lisp.
+
+00:06:53.440 --> 00:06:53.600
+I have to say that a lot of people that use
+
+00:06:56.000 --> 00:06:56.440
+LEM, well, me and most of the people,
+
+00:06:59.060 --> 00:06:59.440
+come from Emacs. So if you come from Emacs
+
+00:07:00.620 --> 00:07:01.120
+and you know a little bit of Emac Lisp,
+
+00:07:04.820 --> 00:07:05.320
+Common Lisp is like an uncle or cousin
+
+00:07:07.120 --> 00:07:07.620
+distance that shares some similarities.
+
+00:07:09.820 --> 00:07:10.020
+So you will... Well, it's not going to be
+
+00:07:12.520 --> 00:07:13.020
+that. I can show... Sorry about that.
+
+00:07:14.960 --> 00:07:15.460
+For example, I show that in the...
+
+00:07:21.780 --> 00:07:22.280
+I can show... So the...
+
+00:07:27.080 --> 00:07:27.540
+It's not that different from Emacs regarding
+
+00:07:28.940 --> 00:07:29.440
+configuration. So for example,
+
+00:07:31.020 --> 00:07:31.520
+this command doesn't exist on LEM.
+
+00:07:35.020 --> 00:07:35.520
+And Sasaki-san didn't want to copy one-to-one
+
+00:07:36.360 --> 00:07:36.860
+the command from Emacs,
+
+00:07:39.660 --> 00:07:39.860
+the airgrip, the cursor grip command of
+
+00:07:41.120 --> 00:07:41.620
+Emacs. And I said, okay,
+
+00:07:43.080 --> 00:07:43.440
+then I'm going to implement it myself.
+
+00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:44.740
+And it's something like this,
+
+00:07:47.960 --> 00:07:48.080
+which is you will do something similar to
+
+00:07:50.320 --> 00:07:50.500
+Emacs, right? This will be like things at
+
+00:07:52.280 --> 00:07:52.780
+point symbol or something like that.
+
+00:07:54.740 --> 00:07:55.240
+And then you have a prompt,
+
+00:07:59.060 --> 00:07:59.440
+very prompt for directory with Emacs would be
+
+00:08:01.260 --> 00:08:01.560
+something similar. And then you then launch
+
+00:08:02.960 --> 00:08:03.460
+grep with the command that you want.
+
+00:08:06.340 --> 00:08:06.780
+This is not that far from Emacs,
+
+00:08:10.680 --> 00:08:10.840
+this, really. If you don't know neither of
+
+00:08:12.740 --> 00:08:13.240
+those, you can still use LEM,
+
+00:08:16.560 --> 00:08:17.060
+though as with Emacs, extensibility will be,
+
+00:08:22.440 --> 00:08:22.760
+well, you couldn't extend it if you don't
+
+00:08:28.700 --> 00:08:29.100
+know combo disp. Should I answer the question
+
+00:08:33.280 --> 00:08:33.780
+on the etherpad writing it at the same time?
+
+00:08:36.580 --> 00:08:36.760
+[Speaker 1]: You're welcome to, but you don't have to.
+
+00:08:38.000 --> 00:08:38.500
+You can just answer here on stream,
+
+00:08:40.440 --> 00:08:40.940
+[Speaker 2]: on the Google button. Okay.
+
+00:08:43.140 --> 00:08:43.640
+Okay. Are there any Lisp machine capabilities
+
+00:08:45.020 --> 00:08:45.280
+you're trying to provide that GNU image
+
+00:08:46.920 --> 00:08:47.040
+lacks? The type objects capability in the
+
+00:08:47.560 --> 00:08:48.060
+editor, as an example.
+
+00:08:53.840 --> 00:08:54.340
+I mean, there were a few discussions about
+
+00:08:59.920 --> 00:09:00.060
+the Lisp machines and LEM and all the big
+
+00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:03.280
+projects that tries to get some capability of
+
+00:09:05.180 --> 00:09:05.680
+it. But we don't really...
+
+00:09:09.840 --> 00:09:10.340
+We try to improve the development experience
+
+00:09:12.800 --> 00:09:13.300
+for Common Lisp and for LEM,
+
+00:09:18.460 --> 00:09:18.660
+imitating a lot of things that the Lisp
+
+00:09:21.560 --> 00:09:22.060
+machine had. I'm going to try to do a thing
+
+00:09:23.400 --> 00:09:23.900
+that I don't know if it's going to work.
+
+00:09:26.880 --> 00:09:27.380
+So to explain this, let's see.
+
+00:09:35.680 --> 00:09:36.180
+I'm going to recompile them now live.
+
+00:09:42.040 --> 00:09:42.540
+Let's see how it works.
+
+00:09:47.860 --> 00:09:48.240
+And compiling the, yes,
+
+00:09:51.780 --> 00:09:52.280
+it doesn't work. OK. What if I do?
+
+00:09:53.900 --> 00:09:54.220
+No, it doesn't work. OK.
+
+00:09:55.280 --> 00:09:55.760
+I was trying to compile the SDL2,
+
+00:09:57.540 --> 00:09:58.040
+but I do have the codebase modifier.
+
+00:10:00.360 --> 00:10:00.860
+I should be able to compile this.
+
+00:10:05.640 --> 00:10:06.140
+Oh, that was really bad.
+
+00:10:13.320 --> 00:10:13.580
+What about example? I have the code base,
+
+00:10:17.220 --> 00:10:17.720
+so let me check. I'm going to do this.
+
+00:10:19.080 --> 00:10:19.580
+Oh, yeah, I have this modified.
+
+00:10:31.120 --> 00:10:31.620
+I stash this. OK. I have this modified.
+
+00:10:33.280 --> 00:10:33.780
+Now it should work. OK.
+
+00:10:42.480 --> 00:10:42.820
+Sorry. I was going to show the writing
+
+00:10:45.620 --> 00:10:45.900
+capabilities of it, similar to the Lisp
+
+00:10:47.800 --> 00:10:48.300
+machine of navigating of classes.
+
+00:10:52.000 --> 00:10:52.500
+So the answer of that question is,
+
+00:10:57.040 --> 00:10:57.180
+not really. We don't try to emulate this
+
+00:10:58.440 --> 00:10:58.940
+machine, nor any like of that.
+
+00:11:05.500 --> 00:11:06.000
+But yeah. Let me, I'm going to try to,
+
+00:11:07.120 --> 00:11:07.620
+okay, now I'm back at them.
+
+00:11:12.180 --> 00:11:12.500
+Okay. So what about using them for things
+
+00:11:13.260 --> 00:11:13.760
+other than common, common,
+
+00:11:16.160 --> 00:11:16.500
+that markets? Okay. So yes,
+
+00:11:18.280 --> 00:11:18.480
+we do have, so I'm going to show the code
+
+00:11:20.280 --> 00:11:20.780
+base a little bit. Like I said before,
+
+00:11:25.120 --> 00:11:25.600
+we don't have yet too much external packages
+
+00:11:26.500 --> 00:11:27.000
+because of the size of the community.
+
+00:11:30.720 --> 00:11:30.940
+I have a question. Go ahead,
+
+00:11:32.160 --> 00:11:32.660
+you can write it, Michael.
+
+00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:38.300
+Yeah. So, yes, as you can see here,
+
+00:11:43.900 --> 00:11:44.340
+this is almost all, or 99% of the major modes
+
+00:11:46.160 --> 00:11:46.620
+we have. We use the same terminology of
+
+00:11:47.640 --> 00:11:48.140
+SkinnyMemax in that way.
+
+00:11:49.120 --> 00:11:49.440
+For example, the C mode,
+
+00:11:51.460 --> 00:11:51.580
+if you go inside, you see that this is the
+
+00:11:53.600 --> 00:11:53.980
+fine major mode. So in that regard,
+
+00:11:54.800 --> 00:11:55.300
+it's very similar to Emacs.
+
+00:11:56.600 --> 00:11:57.100
+And we have something called a JIT,
+
+00:11:58.320 --> 00:11:58.820
+which is like a maggot.
+
+00:12:00.280 --> 00:12:00.780
+And you can edit files.
+
+00:12:02.500 --> 00:12:02.980
+You can use not only for common lists.
+
+00:12:06.820 --> 00:12:07.320
+In my configuration, which is written,
+
+00:12:11.140 --> 00:12:11.640
+I will post that later,
+
+00:12:15.480 --> 00:12:15.640
+but if you go to my code burg you can see my
+
+00:12:16.460 --> 00:12:16.960
+configuration which is,
+
+00:12:20.460 --> 00:12:20.640
+which I do have. So for example you can use
+
+00:12:22.260 --> 00:12:22.760
+it for a scheme. We have a swank server.
+
+00:12:24.240 --> 00:12:24.340
+This is the configuration to use it.
+
+00:12:25.900 --> 00:12:26.040
+You can use it for JavaScript because we have
+
+00:12:28.180 --> 00:12:28.680
+a native LSP client written in.
+
+00:12:29.540 --> 00:12:29.800
+And we have Dired. Yeah,
+
+00:12:33.820 --> 00:12:34.320
+this is Dired. We have Dired indeed.
+
+00:12:35.560 --> 00:12:35.740
+No, it's not Dired, you know.
+
+00:12:36.260 --> 00:12:36.760
+It's called directory.
+
+00:12:38.860 --> 00:12:39.360
+Sasaki-san, which is the main maintainer,
+
+00:12:43.100 --> 00:12:43.600
+doesn't like to copy one-to-one Emacs names,
+
+00:12:48.700 --> 00:12:49.200
+but we are the same. We also have projects,
+
+00:12:51.780 --> 00:12:52.280
+which is like projectile.
+
+00:12:55.120 --> 00:12:55.240
+So, you know, they're very similar but not
+
+00:12:56.940 --> 00:12:57.440
+the same. We also have a VI configuration,
+
+00:12:59.220 --> 00:12:59.380
+as you can see. I'm using the VI commands and
+
+00:13:00.100 --> 00:13:00.600
+stuff, and it's very good.
+
+00:13:03.940 --> 00:13:04.120
+I will say not as good as an evil because it
+
+00:13:06.680 --> 00:13:07.180
+still needs some polish,
+
+00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:08.500
+but it's getting there.
+
+00:13:13.780 --> 00:13:13.860
+So we can also program in JavaScript and a
+
+00:13:16.160 --> 00:13:16.660
+lot of LSP things, and Elixir,
+
+00:13:18.600 --> 00:13:19.100
+which was recently added by myself.
+
+00:13:21.580 --> 00:13:22.080
+And yeah, it's very fun to add new modes.
+
+00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:27.940
+OK, what else next? What about user-level
+
+00:13:28.440 --> 00:13:28.940
+things other than coding?
+
+00:13:31.720 --> 00:13:31.880
+What about using this in conjunction with
+
+00:13:34.340 --> 00:13:34.840
+Nix? Oh, so there's a big,
+
+00:13:36.980 --> 00:13:37.480
+so like I said before,
+
+00:13:40.080 --> 00:13:40.200
+there were like an issue that 3 main common
+
+00:13:40.960 --> 00:13:41.460
+list project were talking,
+
+00:13:46.920 --> 00:13:47.420
+some of the users. So the 3 main projects are
+
+00:13:49.340 --> 00:13:49.840
+LEM, probably, Nixed, and then StamWM,
+
+00:13:52.600 --> 00:13:53.000
+the 3 main, well, 3 big,
+
+00:13:55.280 --> 00:13:55.440
+common list projects that are trying to
+
+00:13:57.720 --> 00:13:58.040
+emulate an Emacs experience in different
+
+00:14:00.100 --> 00:14:00.340
+fields. 1 is Editor, the other 1 is Window
+
+00:14:01.720 --> 00:14:02.220
+Manager, and the 1 is the browser.
+
+00:14:06.560 --> 00:14:06.820
+The problem is that the design of the 3 are
+
+00:14:11.680 --> 00:14:11.960
+very different. So Nix is very focused on the
+
+00:14:14.900 --> 00:14:15.060
+browser. You can connect to Nix.
+
+00:14:16.720 --> 00:14:16.920
+So given that they're both a common list,
+
+00:14:18.940 --> 00:14:19.160
+you can connect to Nix from them and vice
+
+00:14:21.420 --> 00:14:21.600
+versa. And you can send commands and you can,
+
+00:14:22.580 --> 00:14:23.080
+so you have this kind of interoperability
+
+00:14:31.420 --> 00:14:31.580
+with both. But no, you cannot combine both to
+
+00:14:35.280 --> 00:14:35.780
+have 1 LEMNIX. That would be very sick.
+
+00:14:39.400 --> 00:14:39.600
+I would love it. But the effort is just too
+
+00:14:41.000 --> 00:14:41.280
+much. Keep in mind we are a very small
+
+00:14:44.960 --> 00:14:45.060
+community. The LEM, like I said,
+
+00:14:49.920 --> 00:14:50.140
+we are like 345 developers that write
+
+00:14:51.880 --> 00:14:52.380
+packages and answer questions and stuff.
+
+00:14:55.380 --> 00:14:55.880
+Now we need users in that way to test things.
+
+00:14:58.480 --> 00:14:58.820
+So what is the license of LEM?
+
+00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:00.980
+The license of LEM is MAT.
+
+00:15:02.860 --> 00:15:03.180
+We have some components of all the various
+
+00:15:04.480 --> 00:15:04.980
+licenses, but the main 1 is MAT.
+
+00:15:07.160 --> 00:15:07.660
+I didn't choose the license of it.
+
+00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:11.820
+I would highly prefer a more like GPL 1,
+
+00:15:13.500 --> 00:15:14.000
+but like I said I'm not a maintainer,
+
+00:15:15.860 --> 00:15:16.360
+so the license is MAT.
+
+00:15:19.820 --> 00:15:20.320
+This question, I realize,
+
+00:15:22.120 --> 00:15:22.200
+how far is LEM from being able to remove a
+
+00:15:26.500 --> 00:15:26.940
+list libraries? OK, that's a big question
+
+00:15:30.660 --> 00:15:30.920
+indeed. And Funny enough,
+
+00:15:31.800 --> 00:15:32.300
+2 years ago in the EmacsConf,
+
+00:15:34.340 --> 00:15:34.700
+I talk about this, not with LEM,
+
+00:15:36.340 --> 00:15:36.480
+but with Common Lisp and Emacs Lisp in
+
+00:15:41.880 --> 00:15:42.100
+general. So I'm not the only 1 thinking about
+
+00:15:44.100 --> 00:15:44.240
+this. In fact, I'm talking with someone that
+
+00:15:46.740 --> 00:15:46.960
+is trying to write like a Emacs Lisp
+
+00:15:48.120 --> 00:15:48.620
+interpreter to work with them.
+
+00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:52.740
+The thing is that Emaclist libraries,
+
+00:15:55.080 --> 00:15:55.580
+so the API is just very different.
+
+00:15:57.720 --> 00:15:58.220
+That's the main problem.
+
+00:15:58.940 --> 00:15:59.440
+That's really the problem.
+
+00:16:02.320 --> 00:16:02.820
+You can, so you can, let me see.
+
+00:16:13.380 --> 00:16:13.880
+So, you can have an Emacs list buffer of LEM.
+
+00:16:15.420 --> 00:16:15.920
+This is an Emacs list rebel.
+
+00:16:21.380 --> 00:16:21.560
+I wrote an LRSP client so you can connect to
+
+00:16:23.140 --> 00:16:23.560
+Emacs and send things and stuff.
+
+00:16:25.160 --> 00:16:25.660
+So you're friends that we share stuff.
+
+00:16:28.340 --> 00:16:28.840
+But having a complete Emacless implementation
+
+00:16:37.400 --> 00:16:37.600
+with LEM and work with both API will be a
+
+00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:42.600
+huge work. Very like, it's even if they share
+
+00:16:43.680 --> 00:16:44.180
+very similar thing, in fact,
+
+00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:46.980
+API in some places is very similar.
+
+00:16:48.540 --> 00:16:49.040
+Down the line infrastructure,
+
+00:16:52.220 --> 00:16:52.720
+so the code is, so it's completely different.
+
+00:16:56.680 --> 00:16:56.840
+It will be very hard. We do have a clone of
+
+00:16:58.940 --> 00:16:59.440
+maggot that works, more or less.
+
+00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:01.940
+Well, it does work, but maggot's just better.
+
+00:17:03.340 --> 00:17:03.820
+But it's getting there.
+
+00:17:05.020 --> 00:17:05.460
+So like I said, we're trying to,
+
+00:17:06.220 --> 00:17:06.720
+not to copy one-to-one,
+
+00:17:09.640 --> 00:17:10.140
+but to adapting each tool to LEM.
+
+00:17:13.260 --> 00:17:13.760
+How are LEM buffer designs similar to Emacs?
+
+00:17:19.700 --> 00:17:20.020
+So yeah, that would be,
+
+00:17:21.260 --> 00:17:21.760
+so how a blend buffer design,
+
+00:17:24.780 --> 00:17:25.280
+similar to Emacs. So similar in what way,
+
+00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:26.819
+actually with properties.
+
+00:17:29.180 --> 00:17:29.480
+I think that you've seen,
+
+00:17:31.220 --> 00:17:31.560
+so you do have like a font lock,
+
+00:17:32.420 --> 00:17:32.920
+different kind of properties,
+
+00:17:37.820 --> 00:17:38.040
+but it's not exactly how Emac does it with
+
+00:17:41.740 --> 00:17:42.180
+overlays and stuff. You can,
+
+00:17:43.080 --> 00:17:43.580
+so if you're very interested,
+
+00:17:45.300 --> 00:17:45.800
+I don't want to go too much deep into the,
+
+00:17:51.500 --> 00:17:51.720
+let me go to, I don't want to go too much
+
+00:17:55.380 --> 00:17:55.760
+deep into the technicality of things now,
+
+00:17:57.920 --> 00:17:58.080
+but you can go. So LEM is written 100% in
+
+00:18:00.040 --> 00:18:00.380
+Common Lisp. So if you know Common Lisp,
+
+00:18:03.900 --> 00:18:04.040
+you can go to buffer. You can check all the
+
+00:18:08.520 --> 00:18:09.020
+codes here. Always we have,
+
+00:18:12.780 --> 00:18:13.280
+we also have this, which is like StreamX.
+
+00:18:17.860 --> 00:18:18.360
+Sorry to that, I don't.
+
+00:18:21.900 --> 00:18:22.400
+But yeah, So you can see.
+
+00:18:24.440 --> 00:18:24.940
+So yeah, if you go to the code base,
+
+00:18:26.780 --> 00:18:27.280
+maybe some of you can check this problem.
+
+00:18:28.500 --> 00:18:29.000
+Well, not problem, but yeah.
+
+00:18:30.340 --> 00:18:30.840
+That's this Japanese comment.
+
+00:18:35.560 --> 00:18:36.060
+You can see here why it's very,
+
+00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:38.300
+you have to translate and stuff,
+
+00:18:39.560 --> 00:18:40.060
+which is sometimes a little bit annoying.
+
+00:18:44.540 --> 00:18:45.040
+But yeah, some of them are in English.
+
+00:18:47.020 --> 00:18:47.440
+So this play is not the same.
+
+00:18:48.800 --> 00:18:49.200
+So if you're interested,
+
+00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:51.400
+you can go to the buffer and check it out for
+
+00:18:53.480 --> 00:18:53.600
+yourself. But I think it uses the overlay in
+
+00:18:58.620 --> 00:18:58.900
+a different way. So the implementation is
+
+00:19:04.800 --> 00:19:05.020
+different that way. Oh,
+
+00:19:10.875 --> 00:19:11.375
+[Speaker 0]: This module. Oh, this is very low.
+
+00:19:12.560 --> 00:19:13.060
+[Speaker 2]: this is fairly low. What other things or
+
+00:19:15.559 --> 00:19:15.600
+experiences that I can show you?
+
+00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:16.420
+Just like you show you.
+
+00:19:18.120 --> 00:19:18.620
+Any marks?
+
+00:19:32.860 --> 00:19:33.360
+Okay, very interesting question.
+
+00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:34.500
+What are the things...
+
+00:19:37.460 --> 00:19:37.960
+So that's interesting.
+
+00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:43.220
+Let me see. So forgive me,
+
+00:19:49.660 --> 00:19:49.760
+you answered this. I talked briefly in the
+
+00:19:53.560 --> 00:19:53.780
+talk about this, but basically I like
+
+00:19:55.840 --> 00:19:56.340
+Komaldisp, I have the mascot here.
+
+00:19:58.040 --> 00:19:58.540
+[Speaker 3]: a very
+
+00:20:04.740 --> 00:20:04.840
+[Speaker 2]: It's Italian thing. I like Common Lisp and I
+
+00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:08.800
+think GmagLisp is a very good friend of
+
+00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:10.520
+Common Lisp in the way that Serious Software
+
+00:20:11.840 --> 00:20:12.340
+Analysis is a very good uncle.
+
+00:20:18.800 --> 00:20:19.300
+Let me answer first the 1.
+
+00:20:24.140 --> 00:20:24.620
+So I like to extend it in Common Lisp.
+
+00:20:25.640 --> 00:20:26.140
+I like the Common Lisp libraries.
+
+00:20:30.100 --> 00:20:30.360
+And I think them have a better design in
+
+00:20:31.220 --> 00:20:31.720
+terms of its 1 language,
+
+00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:33.980
+which I think is a nice strength.
+
+00:20:36.580 --> 00:20:36.660
+Like, 1 of the things that put me off when I
+
+00:20:38.680 --> 00:20:39.020
+was using Emacs, I love to extend the editor
+
+00:20:40.600 --> 00:20:41.100
+and to go inside and stuff.
+
+00:20:43.360 --> 00:20:43.520
+And 1 of the things that I'm not a big fan of
+
+00:20:44.820 --> 00:20:45.020
+C. If you're a fan of C,
+
+00:20:47.040 --> 00:20:47.240
+you will be very pleasant with finding C
+
+00:20:50.440 --> 00:20:50.660
+stuff, but I don't. So when I'm trying to
+
+00:20:52.340 --> 00:20:52.840
+hack an Emacs and go inside the things,
+
+00:20:54.140 --> 00:20:54.640
+I will control C code.
+
+00:20:56.200 --> 00:20:56.660
+That's not that interactive as the Emaclist
+
+00:20:59.340 --> 00:20:59.840
+1, and that would be like a fuzzball for me.
+
+00:21:03.740 --> 00:21:04.080
+I was always dreaming about that stuff,
+
+00:21:05.320 --> 00:21:05.820
+having like everything in 1 language.
+
+00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:08.160
+The thing that LEM does to me is like it
+
+00:21:12.100 --> 00:21:12.560
+allows me to extend the editor to modify
+
+00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:14.660
+also, to modify in Common Lisp.
+
+00:21:17.660 --> 00:21:18.160
+Also, I like the language and technology.
+
+00:21:19.600 --> 00:21:19.900
+It's a bold thing, right?
+
+00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:21.980
+It's a world language that I love,
+
+00:21:23.740 --> 00:21:24.240
+and Emacs that I love.
+
+00:21:25.380 --> 00:21:25.880
+Emacs, I'm a big fan of,
+
+00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:27.520
+or a user of GNU Emacs.
+
+00:21:29.380 --> 00:21:29.880
+And LEM is like Emacs plus Common Lisp,
+
+00:21:30.600 --> 00:21:30.900
+but with a different design.
+
+00:21:32.360 --> 00:21:32.860
+I don't want to, It's not a clone.
+
+00:21:37.800 --> 00:21:38.040
+I want to get this very clear that LEM is not
+
+00:21:40.760 --> 00:21:41.140
+a clone of Emacs. The sign is very different
+
+00:21:43.180 --> 00:21:43.500
+in a lot of ways. But it's very inspired,
+
+00:21:44.380 --> 00:21:44.880
+and that cannot be denied.
+
+00:21:48.280 --> 00:21:48.780
+[Speaker 1]: I can jump in for a second.
+
+00:21:51.120 --> 00:21:51.360
+I think we're like 15 minutes into the lunch
+
+00:21:52.660 --> 00:21:53.040
+break, but you're welcome to continue
+
+00:21:55.600 --> 00:21:55.760
+answering questions. But if anyone on the
+
+00:21:57.500 --> 00:21:58.000
+stream or folks want to go grab lunch,
+
+00:21:59.760 --> 00:21:59.860
+feel free to do that. I'm probably going to
+
+00:22:01.880 --> 00:22:02.040
+do that as well. But yeah,
+
+00:22:03.760 --> 00:22:03.920
+we can either continue keeping this on the
+
+00:22:06.180 --> 00:22:06.440
+stream, or if people would like to come join
+
+00:22:08.600 --> 00:22:09.100
+here on BigBlueButton and talk to Fermin,
+
+00:22:11.040 --> 00:22:11.540
+like folks have already done that,
+
+00:22:12.440 --> 00:22:12.940
+yeah, you're welcome to.
+
+00:22:14.620 --> 00:22:15.120
+[Speaker 2]: Yeah, go ahead. No problem.
+
+00:22:16.500 --> 00:22:17.000
+Thank you. Thank you, Vitaliy.
+
+00:22:25.160 --> 00:22:25.280
+Cheers. Cheers. So finishing the answer to
+
+00:22:30.080 --> 00:22:30.380
+the question, I think LEM does tries to fix
+
+00:22:31.880 --> 00:22:32.380
+some Emacs problems, can we fix problems
+
+00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:35.700
+regarding the internal API,
+
+00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:37.480
+which makes sense, right?
+
+00:22:39.060 --> 00:22:39.560
+Emacs have like 40 years,
+
+00:22:42.280 --> 00:22:42.780
+which is a lot. And yeah,
+
+00:22:44.760 --> 00:22:45.060
+which is, that's what makes me happy.
+
+00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:47.720
+I use both now. I use Maggis and Emacs for
+
+00:22:50.200 --> 00:22:50.460
+some languages and then I use LEM for Common
+
+00:22:51.100 --> 00:22:51.600
+Lisp and other languages.
+
+00:22:55.240 --> 00:22:55.740
+You can also use LEM for EmacLisp,
+
+00:22:59.760 --> 00:22:59.960
+which makes LEM the second best editor for
+
+00:23:02.360 --> 00:23:02.860
+EmacLisp. It was a funny thing to do.
+
+00:23:05.980 --> 00:23:06.100
+OK, so do you think LEM will continue to have
+
+00:23:06.760 --> 00:23:07.260
+a lot of Japanese documentation?
+
+00:23:11.720 --> 00:23:12.180
+So there's not that many Japanese
+
+00:23:12.780 --> 00:23:13.280
+documentation, really.
+
+00:23:18.280 --> 00:23:18.480
+So there's a few comments here and there,
+
+00:23:20.800 --> 00:23:20.920
+but it's not full. We have a web page with a
+
+00:23:22.020 --> 00:23:22.520
+lot of documentation in English.
+
+00:23:25.380 --> 00:23:25.880
+So you can take a look at that.
+
+00:23:29.080 --> 00:23:29.580
+But we do have to improve the documentation
+
+00:23:30.260 --> 00:23:30.760
+and translate it to English.
+
+00:23:32.220 --> 00:23:32.440
+Sasaki-san is up to it,
+
+00:23:35.460 --> 00:23:35.960
+but he just doesn't feel that comfortable
+
+00:23:36.600 --> 00:23:37.100
+translating it himself.
+
+00:23:38.680 --> 00:23:39.180
+So yeah.
+
+00:23:42.720 --> 00:23:43.220
+[Speaker 3]: So, this is Peter on BigBlueWem.
+
+00:23:49.620 --> 00:23:50.120
+Yeah, it's neat that Wem even exists,
+
+00:23:55.520 --> 00:23:55.940
+because there's always chatter on the Emacs
+
+00:23:58.980 --> 00:23:59.280
+mailing list to rewrite Emacs and some other
+
+00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:04.120
+language. And to see that it's already to see
+
+00:24:05.320 --> 00:24:05.820
+that I mean, you have an implementation
+
+00:24:08.360 --> 00:24:08.560
+sitting there and, and the thing I was
+
+00:24:10.600 --> 00:24:10.960
+wondering while I was listening in on the,
+
+00:24:14.060 --> 00:24:14.460
+on the Q and A was do you have Dured?
+
+00:24:15.400 --> 00:24:15.700
+Do you have Maggot? And some,
+
+00:24:17.100 --> 00:24:17.600
+somebody else wrote that question into,
+
+00:24:20.460 --> 00:24:20.640
+into Etherpad. But I was happy to see that
+
+00:24:22.800 --> 00:24:23.000
+you have Dured or something like it
+
+00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:25.440
+implemented. Because I think that's like the,
+
+00:24:27.040 --> 00:24:27.180
+for me, that's the most important thing in
+
+00:24:30.800 --> 00:24:31.000
+Emacs because that gets me around in my
+
+00:24:35.200 --> 00:24:35.380
+[Speaker 2]: BRODINKOVICH Yeah, for me too.
+
+00:24:35.740 --> 00:24:36.240
+For me too.
+
+00:24:37.100 --> 00:24:37.260
+[Speaker 0]: Go ahead.
+
+00:24:37.740 --> 00:24:37.940
+[Speaker 3]: system. VICTOR Sorry. Yeah,
+
+00:24:39.680 --> 00:24:40.160
+so I may try it out sometime,
+
+00:24:42.040 --> 00:24:42.540
+but probably won't be for like 3 or 6 months,
+
+00:24:45.060 --> 00:24:45.240
+because there's always a backlog of other
+
+00:24:46.560 --> 00:24:47.060
+things to try out.
+
+00:24:49.800 --> 00:24:50.300
+[Speaker 4]: I'm the 1 who wrote that question.
+
+00:24:54.020 --> 00:24:54.520
+And do you use, I think you have bookmarks
+
+00:24:55.380 --> 00:24:55.800
+and registers, I imagine,
+
+00:24:55.800 --> 00:24:56.300
+right?
+
+00:24:59.700 --> 00:25:00.060
+[Speaker 2]: I think you have. I never tried bookmarks
+
+00:25:01.220 --> 00:25:01.400
+because I don't use it that much.
+
+00:25:02.560 --> 00:25:03.060
+But I think you have something like that.
+
+00:25:05.420 --> 00:25:05.840
+I mean, I don't. There's a few features that
+
+00:25:07.360 --> 00:25:07.540
+I don't know about them because I don't use
+
+00:25:08.680 --> 00:25:08.980
+it much. Some features,
+
+00:25:11.580 --> 00:25:11.840
+I mean. But yeah, I think you have.
+
+00:25:13.100 --> 00:25:13.380
+Let me check. We can check,
+
+00:25:16.620 --> 00:25:17.120
+probably. Things in extensions,
+
+00:25:23.140 --> 00:25:23.480
+just directory. VNXT. Directory mode.
+
+00:25:28.950 --> 00:25:29.450
+So there is. So this is the Tyrant's friend.
+
+00:25:31.780 --> 00:25:32.230
+I won't say clone. Very inspired.
+
+00:25:36.580 --> 00:25:36.900
+[Speaker 4]: What about like on the note-taking front,
+
+00:25:38.440 --> 00:25:38.940
+like org mode,
+
+00:25:41.040 --> 00:25:41.380
+[Speaker 2]: You know. note... Yes,
+
+00:25:50.440 --> 00:25:50.940
+so... EMMS... Yes, so someone did some MMS.
+
+00:25:58.380 --> 00:25:58.620
+So not MMS, not much. So package for LEM that
+
+00:26:00.060 --> 00:26:00.400
+is now in a pull request,
+
+00:26:03.800 --> 00:26:04.300
+I think. But yeah, no.
+
+00:26:06.800 --> 00:26:07.300
+The thing is I don't use R mode that much.
+
+00:26:11.980 --> 00:26:12.480
+We don't have a heavy R mode user to provide
+
+00:26:15.020 --> 00:26:15.300
+some major mode and stuff.
+
+00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:18.600
+So we don't have that implemented yet.
+
+00:26:20.580 --> 00:26:20.900
+The thing is, my plans for,
+
+00:26:22.360 --> 00:26:22.860
+I do have plans for our mode.
+
+00:26:24.020 --> 00:26:24.520
+They're a little bit evil,
+
+00:26:26.200 --> 00:26:26.700
+but there's plans for it.
+
+00:26:27.800 --> 00:26:28.040
+So I'm planning to use,
+
+00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:30.060
+so rewriting our mode is a big task that I
+
+00:26:34.200 --> 00:26:34.700
+don't want to do. So I'm going to use Emacs
+
+00:26:39.020 --> 00:26:39.520
+for our mode in 2.11. I wrote a recipe,
+
+00:26:45.060 --> 00:26:45.380
+no, a remote procedural RPC that I'm using
+
+00:26:46.860 --> 00:26:47.360
+for the Red Bull and stuff.
+
+00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:51.200
+And I'm planning to have an Emacs Puppet to
+
+00:26:54.720 --> 00:26:55.220
+provide me the functionality for Org Mode.
+
+00:26:59.380 --> 00:26:59.760
+[Speaker 4]: I know for me, when I write notes,
+
+00:27:01.640 --> 00:27:01.940
+I like to note more than Org Roam just
+
+00:27:06.340 --> 00:27:06.840
+because I feel Org Mode is great and all,
+
+00:27:08.920 --> 00:27:09.060
+but if all my notes are in it,
+
+00:27:10.260 --> 00:27:10.760
+I kind of feel trapped by it.
+
+00:27:14.460 --> 00:27:14.960
+I did the talk journaling in KOutline,
+
+00:27:17.800 --> 00:27:18.040
+and I like that package better for some
+
+00:27:21.040 --> 00:27:21.260
+things and it's like if I want to put like
+
+00:27:24.280 --> 00:27:24.780
+the tags on PDF file names and so it's like
+
+00:27:28.940 --> 00:27:29.100
+Yeah, it's great and all but it's also Is
+
+00:27:31.560 --> 00:27:31.740
+that part of the motivation of wanting to use
+
+00:27:34.620 --> 00:27:35.120
+lamb is so you feel less entrapped by emacs
+
+00:27:38.445 --> 00:27:38.840
+No, I will say I don't no.
+
+00:27:40.620 --> 00:27:41.120
+[Speaker 2]: No, no. I was very happy trapping to Emacs.
+
+00:27:47.100 --> 00:27:47.560
+To be fair. The thing is I don't use Hormel
+
+00:27:48.600 --> 00:27:49.100
+that much. That's just the reality.
+
+00:27:52.120 --> 00:27:52.580
+Org Mode for me is a very good markup
+
+00:27:54.660 --> 00:27:54.810
+language, but not that much really.
+
+00:27:56.920 --> 00:27:57.420
+I know that Org Mode has a lot of people and
+
+00:27:58.740 --> 00:27:59.060
+it's used by a lot of people.
+
+00:28:00.060 --> 00:28:00.560
+And there's very interesting packages.
+
+00:28:03.700 --> 00:28:04.200
+[Speaker 4]: What about org mode versus markdown versus
+
+00:28:05.800 --> 00:28:06.300
+plain text versus latex then?
+
+00:28:08.480 --> 00:28:08.860
+[Speaker 2]: I like org mode because of the Emacs
+
+00:28:10.380 --> 00:28:10.880
+functionality. I think if you take that away,
+
+00:28:15.600 --> 00:28:16.100
+you plain or mode versus Markdown,
+
+00:28:17.720 --> 00:28:18.080
+I don't think there's that much difference,
+
+00:28:19.960 --> 00:28:20.460
+if you take the Emacs functionality away.
+
+00:28:24.560 --> 00:28:24.880
+I like the
+
+00:28:27.260 --> 00:28:27.760
+[Speaker 4]: Yeah. Emacs syntax more than Markdown.
+
+00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:29.900
+Like, for instance, you have the double
+
+00:28:31.720 --> 00:28:31.960
+square brackets, which is simpler for me to
+
+00:28:32.500 --> 00:28:33.000
+look at, but.
+
+00:28:35.820 --> 00:28:36.060
+[Speaker 2]: Yeah, I guess it's a matter of,
+
+00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:38.640
+I mean, we don't have yet a major mode of R
+
+00:28:39.800 --> 00:28:40.300
+mode, which will be quite trivial.
+
+00:28:42.660 --> 00:28:43.160
+Well, you know, a simple syntax highlights,
+
+00:28:46.040 --> 00:28:46.540
+you know, R mode in LEM,
+
+00:28:52.460 --> 00:28:52.960
+because no 1 wrote it.
+
+00:28:55.320 --> 00:28:55.640
+I mean, that's the way with this project,
+
+00:29:00.060 --> 00:29:00.360
+right? If you need people to be motivated to
+
+00:29:04.120 --> 00:29:04.620
+do that. And with LEM,
+
+00:29:06.540 --> 00:29:07.040
+someone asked about the Japanese.
+
+00:29:11.320 --> 00:29:11.820
+I think they're interested about that.
+
+00:29:15.040 --> 00:29:15.420
+LEM does have a thing,
+
+00:29:16.030 --> 00:29:16.095
+[Speaker 0]: If the it would be good.
+
+00:29:16.800 --> 00:29:17.160
+[Speaker 4]: I'd be able to do more,
+
+00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:18.500
+but that's what I
+
+00:29:19.370 --> 00:29:19.870
+[Speaker 0]: was doing.
+
+00:29:22.420 --> 00:29:22.820
+[Speaker 2]: they think True. So, for example,
+
+00:29:24.240 --> 00:29:24.740
+we're using another big fan of...
+
+00:29:27.840 --> 00:29:28.080
+I mean, I know that the main people that may
+
+00:29:30.280 --> 00:29:30.780
+use in the future LEM are EMACLIS people.
+
+00:29:33.080 --> 00:29:33.580
+A lot of them. It's very similar.
+
+00:29:37.540 --> 00:29:37.940
+And Sasaki-san and the LEM community mainly
+
+00:29:43.260 --> 00:29:43.760
+uses Discord for chat and stuff.
+
+00:29:46.980 --> 00:29:47.480
+I mean, we do have matrix,
+
+00:29:48.540 --> 00:29:48.640
+and I should connect to it,
+
+00:29:54.960 --> 00:29:55.320
+by the way. But we mainly use Discord,
+
+00:29:58.080 --> 00:29:58.580
+which I don't think is a good thing.
+
+00:30:01.900 --> 00:30:02.300
+I mean, to have the main communication
+
+00:30:05.020 --> 00:30:05.520
+channels, Discord. Because,
+
+00:30:09.020 --> 00:30:09.520
+well, it's Discord. It's a closed source
+
+00:30:13.180 --> 00:30:13.440
+application that is easy for some people,
+
+00:30:14.340 --> 00:30:14.840
+but for some people it's a tailbreak.
+
+00:30:17.040 --> 00:30:17.080
+[Speaker 0]: are in
+
+00:30:17.580 --> 00:30:18.080
+[Speaker 2]: Especially people that the Emacs community
+
+00:30:20.080 --> 00:30:20.580
+that very like free software.
+
+00:30:22.800 --> 00:30:23.300
+[Speaker 4]: The only good thing about Molesley is it's
+
+00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:26.380
+popular, but as soon as you break out of that
+
+00:30:28.380 --> 00:30:28.520
+mold, all of a sudden it becomes a lot
+
+00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:30.900
+harder. For instance, they don't have...
+
+00:30:33.820 --> 00:30:34.320
+All the third-party clients are unofficial
+
+00:30:37.340 --> 00:30:37.500
+and according to their terms of service they
+
+00:30:40.380 --> 00:30:40.600
+can just can you. Which is not a nice
+
+00:30:44.020 --> 00:30:44.180
+position to be in if you're trying to use it
+
+00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:47.700
+and you wanted to be a moderator using some
+
+00:30:50.600 --> 00:30:51.100
+side tools that weren't Discord.
+
+00:30:55.320 --> 00:30:55.560
+[Speaker 2]: I agree 100% and in fact I'm not a big fan,
+
+00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:56.900
+I don't like Discord.
+
+00:31:03.860 --> 00:31:04.360
+[Speaker 5]: You mentioned the RPC you did between Emacs
+
+00:31:06.200 --> 00:31:06.700
+and the LEM. Do you have it published
+
+00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:07.220
+somewhere?
+
+00:31:13.520 --> 00:31:14.020
+[Speaker 2]: Yes, it's in the LEM project.
+
+00:31:15.820 --> 00:31:16.320
+I'll copy that in the chat.
+
+00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:19.340
+[Speaker 5]: Okay, because I'm always interested in how
+
+00:31:21.560 --> 00:31:22.060
+you do like the communication with other
+
+00:31:24.020 --> 00:31:24.320
+programs with Emacs because that's
+
+00:31:24.320 --> 00:31:24.820
+interesting.
+
+00:31:30.140 --> 00:31:30.640
+[Speaker 2]: I'm only using the porthole package,
+
+00:31:32.460 --> 00:31:32.960
+I'm not writing it from scratch,
+
+00:31:34.340 --> 00:31:34.840
+not that much as a developer.
+
+00:31:37.540 --> 00:31:37.960
+[Speaker 5]: So I don't know this package.
+
+00:31:39.140 --> 00:31:39.640
+Maybe that's the thing I can learn.
+
+00:31:40.840 --> 00:31:41.140
+[Speaker 2]: Oh yeah, probably if you,
+
+00:31:42.360 --> 00:31:42.740
+yeah. Yeah. If you want to,
+
+00:31:43.860 --> 00:31:44.360
+so I didn't see this 1,
+
+00:31:46.420 --> 00:31:46.920
+this package for the RSP,
+
+00:31:48.620 --> 00:31:49.120
+which make is monthly automatically.
+
+00:31:53.200 --> 00:31:53.600
+[Speaker 5]: And how do you do, how do you plan to
+
+00:31:59.180 --> 00:31:59.440
+integrate Org Mode? Because Org Mode needs to
+
+00:31:59.760 --> 00:32:00.260
+work on.
+
+00:32:03.340 --> 00:32:03.540
+[Speaker 2]: This way? Yes, so I'm planning to have like a
+
+00:32:08.260 --> 00:32:08.760
+Emacs puppet and to have like a clone buffer
+
+00:32:11.320 --> 00:32:11.820
+from the buffer that you do in LEM and then
+
+00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:17.380
+the command sent into the Emacs hidden buffer
+
+00:32:19.820 --> 00:32:20.140
+and then the changes go back to LEM to change
+
+00:32:22.660 --> 00:32:23.160
+the buffer of LEM. That's my idea.
+
+00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:25.460
+[Speaker 5]: Okay, that's all. It's interesting.
+
+00:32:28.320 --> 00:32:28.540
+Would be interesting to see what comes from
+
+00:32:28.540 --> 00:32:29.040
+it.
+
+00:32:32.280 --> 00:32:32.780
+[Speaker 2]: It's a bit, it's a hackish 100%.
+
+00:32:35.200 --> 00:32:35.320
+It's not, you have to duplicate the
+
+00:32:36.020 --> 00:32:36.520
+information and stuff,
+
+00:32:38.940 --> 00:32:39.140
+which is, oh, by the way,
+
+00:32:40.320 --> 00:32:40.820
+I'm going to pass the Lemington,
+
+00:32:43.380 --> 00:32:43.880
+which is the name of the RSP clone.
+
+00:32:45.980 --> 00:32:46.480
+Sorry, the integration with Emacs,
+
+00:32:48.900 --> 00:32:49.400
+which is LEM with a mustache.
+
+00:32:54.400 --> 00:32:54.600
+[Speaker 4]: They had good news where it would do the same
+
+00:32:56.360 --> 00:32:56.860
+thing, where it would open up a slave Emacs,
+
+00:33:00.020 --> 00:33:00.520
+because it was such a performance hog for
+
+00:33:02.140 --> 00:33:02.640
+retrieving all the emails.
+
+00:33:06.940 --> 00:33:07.360
+[Speaker 2]: No. I mean, Emacs have a server,
+
+00:33:08.559 --> 00:33:08.860
+right? I can, in fact,
+
+00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:11.700
+I'm using that for, I'm already puppeting.
+
+00:33:13.340 --> 00:33:13.620
+Well, not puppeting. I'm already using
+
+00:33:15.700 --> 00:33:16.200
+Maggots. So I have this.
+
+00:33:17.400 --> 00:33:17.900
+Actually, let me copy.
+
+00:33:25.600 --> 00:33:25.920
+I have this, which is usually a little bit,
+
+00:33:28.080 --> 00:33:28.420
+I'm launching the Emacs daemon and then I'm
+
+00:33:31.500 --> 00:33:31.740
+launching Leviton. And then this is the kill
+
+00:33:32.300 --> 00:33:32.700
+and this is the status,
+
+00:33:33.440 --> 00:33:33.940
+which is basically saying,
+
+00:33:36.680 --> 00:33:37.180
+run this and this is this,
+
+00:33:42.040 --> 00:33:42.540
+which is run maggot in this file.
+
+00:33:43.940 --> 00:33:44.340
+If you put it side by side,
+
+00:33:48.680 --> 00:33:48.800
+you will check instantly that this is the
+
+00:33:50.900 --> 00:33:51.400
+buffer directory, LEM home,
+
+00:33:54.020 --> 00:33:54.520
+and then the current file.
+
+00:33:58.860 --> 00:33:59.360
+Because I'm launching it with the file.
+
+00:34:03.940 --> 00:34:04.240
+So buffer directory, which is the directory
+
+00:34:09.239 --> 00:34:09.739
+of the buffer. So I'm already using maggot as
+
+00:34:13.600 --> 00:34:14.080
+a tool outside of LEM,
+
+00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:15.060
+because I really like maggot.
+
+00:34:16.920 --> 00:34:17.420
+And this is very easy to check.
+
+00:34:22.719 --> 00:34:23.219
+Launch Emacs daemon. Okay.
+
+00:34:28.580 --> 00:34:29.080
+And then I go to local projects.
+
+00:34:31.719 --> 00:34:32.219
+Let's go to another 1 that is not LEM.
+
+00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:37.400
+[Speaker 4]: You actually have weird ideas like running it
+
+00:34:39.639 --> 00:34:39.860
+in daemon mode so you don't ever have to
+
+00:34:40.840 --> 00:34:41.340
+restart it or the images,
+
+00:34:43.100 --> 00:34:43.600
+I guess, that LEM has.
+
+00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:47.300
+[Speaker 2]: LEM does not have this kind of,
+
+00:34:53.719 --> 00:34:54.060
+I will call it, it doesn't have like a demon
+
+00:34:56.280 --> 00:34:56.780
+mode, so you have control separately,
+
+00:34:58.860 --> 00:34:59.360
+but keep in mind that LEM,
+
+00:35:01.260 --> 00:35:01.680
+it's a common list program.
+
+00:35:03.340 --> 00:35:03.840
+So if you use slime or Sly,
+
+00:35:10.080 --> 00:35:10.580
+you can easily connect to them to hack on it.
+
+00:35:12.380 --> 00:35:12.880
+[Speaker 4]: ever use that functionality,
+
+00:35:14.060 --> 00:35:14.560
+like using it from another computer?
+
+00:35:16.400 --> 00:35:16.900
+[Speaker 2]: Do you Another computer,
+
+00:35:17.600 --> 00:35:18.100
+I think the same computer,
+
+00:35:21.460 --> 00:35:21.620
+or maybe Sage, but yeah,
+
+00:35:21.820 --> 00:35:22.320
+it's very...
+
+00:35:24.520 --> 00:35:25.020
+[Speaker 4]: Or from like your window,
+
+00:35:26.640 --> 00:35:27.140
+if you were using the window...
+
+00:35:28.260 --> 00:35:28.580
+I can't remember the name of the window
+
+00:35:30.100 --> 00:35:30.600
+manager. Or if you were using...
+
+00:35:36.460 --> 00:35:36.960
+What? Yeah, yeah. Or using like stump,
+
+00:35:40.680 --> 00:35:40.760
+calling it from like stump WM or how often do
+
+00:35:41.500 --> 00:35:42.000
+you use that REPL?
+
+00:35:43.740 --> 00:35:43.940
+[Speaker 2]: SPCL? No. ThumbWM? I use it quite a lot.
+
+00:35:44.700 --> 00:35:45.200
+I connect to a museum,
+
+00:35:49.400 --> 00:35:49.760
+some WM right now, and I use LEM to connect
+
+00:35:52.240 --> 00:35:52.740
+to it, but I was using Emacs before.
+
+00:35:55.800 --> 00:35:55.960
+And you can use Sly or Slime to connect to
+
+00:35:58.260 --> 00:35:58.520
+LEM. So the thing that is in Common List
+
+00:36:00.900 --> 00:36:01.400
+makes it this kind of already out-of-the-box
+
+00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:04.280
+connectivity between different...
+
+00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:07.460
+[Speaker 4]: How many window managers have you used?
+
+00:36:11.120 --> 00:36:11.400
+I've used that before.
+
+00:36:13.440 --> 00:36:13.780
+I've also used, like right now I'm using
+
+00:36:14.720 --> 00:36:15.220
+Sway. I've used Xmonad,
+
+00:36:16.260 --> 00:36:16.760
+DWM.
+
+00:36:23.040 --> 00:36:23.540
+[Speaker 2]: This is awesome. What is the other 1?
+
+00:36:25.680 --> 00:36:26.180
+I can't remember the name.
+
+00:36:27.900 --> 00:36:28.380
+But it was like a few years ago.
+
+00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:31.020
+I've been doing some DWM for like the last
+
+00:36:36.260 --> 00:36:36.760
+[Speaker 4]: I remember that. Go ahead.
+
+00:36:37.740 --> 00:36:38.240
+[Speaker 2]: year, I think. Or 3. know,
+
+00:36:41.940 --> 00:36:42.440
+it's that I was... I don't know.
+
+00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:43.520
+[Speaker 0]: I don't a couple
+
+00:36:44.040 --> 00:36:44.540
+[Speaker 2]: I'd like to have of days of my...
+
+00:36:48.280 --> 00:36:48.400
+[Speaker 4]: I remember that that window manager seemed to
+
+00:36:53.300 --> 00:36:53.600
+have some unique ideas that weren't
+
+00:36:56.280 --> 00:36:56.780
+necessarily available on like EWM and XMLNAD.
+
+00:37:02.540 --> 00:37:03.040
+[Speaker 2]: So SoundLM, it's an interesting project.
+
+00:37:05.140 --> 00:37:05.460
+But for example, I'll change...
+
+00:37:06.720 --> 00:37:07.080
+So I don't have in this computer,
+
+00:37:08.240 --> 00:37:08.680
+but in my other computer,
+
+00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:14.320
+I change the mod line or bar,
+
+00:37:18.220 --> 00:37:18.720
+top bar, whatever, because the ThunderLVM
+
+00:37:21.500 --> 00:37:22.000
+doesn't only update it when you click,
+
+00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:25.680
+or you do some events or happen 1 minute.
+
+00:37:27.560 --> 00:37:27.980
+So you can see here, this is not changing
+
+00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:28.820
+until I click.
+
+00:37:33.500 --> 00:37:33.720
+[Speaker 0]: That's it.
+
+00:37:34.360 --> 00:37:34.600
+[Speaker 3]: AUDIENCE 1 Matthew, sorry.
+
+00:37:36.160 --> 00:37:36.660
+I have a quick question for Matthew.
+
+00:37:43.520 --> 00:37:43.640
+So is your talk going to be posted or did you
+
+00:37:47.420 --> 00:37:47.920
+[Speaker 4]: Go ahead. I gave them a recording.
+
+00:37:50.140 --> 00:37:50.640
+My talk was the K outline for journaling
+
+00:37:53.080 --> 00:37:53.240
+[Speaker 3]: give it live? right right it was I woke up
+
+00:37:54.020 --> 00:37:54.520
+too late for it Sorry,
+
+00:37:58.420 --> 00:37:58.920
+so I came in and I just saw Bob Weiner
+
+00:38:03.240 --> 00:38:03.340
+answering questions So is your talk going to
+
+00:38:06.560 --> 00:38:07.060
+be on the page for your talk?
+
+00:38:07.740 --> 00:38:07.960
+I don't
+
+00:38:08.560 --> 00:38:09.060
+[Speaker 0]: see it there.
+
+00:38:11.940 --> 00:38:12.380
+[Speaker 4]: I could give you a link to it,
+
+00:38:17.480 --> 00:38:17.640
+because I had, I hosted it on Mega to give it
+
+00:38:18.840 --> 00:38:19.020
+to them, because when I emailed it,
+
+00:38:22.080 --> 00:38:22.200
+[Speaker 3]: Oh, okay. Is it
+
+00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:22.840
+[Speaker 4]: it didn't work. on a monkey?
+
+00:38:23.600 --> 00:38:24.100
+Download and watch it.
+
+00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:29.920
+I'm probably going to post it on YouTube
+
+00:38:33.600 --> 00:38:33.760
+later. I, I had my face record with it,
+
+00:38:36.020 --> 00:38:36.520
+but I never got it edited together in time
+
+00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:40.640
+[Speaker 3]: Okay, if you could if you can put the link
+
+00:38:43.140 --> 00:38:43.340
+onto the onto the ether pad or something or
+
+00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:46.160
+onto the wiki then then I can find it and
+
+00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:50.140
+check it out. All right,
+
+00:38:53.040 --> 00:38:53.480
+thanks. Sorry to interrupt your time,
+
+00:38:56.300 --> 00:38:56.440
+Fermin, but I figure we're heavily into the
+
+00:38:57.260 --> 00:38:57.760
+break anyways. FERMIN GENZIERIA-CHAPMANI
+
+00:39:00.920 --> 00:39:01.160
+[Speaker 2]: No problem. I'm in an EMAX conference talking
+
+00:39:02.860 --> 00:39:03.040
+about all that I mean I'm already doing
+
+00:39:04.280 --> 00:39:04.780
+blasphemy so I
+
+00:39:24.600 --> 00:39:24.800
+think that's oh yeah notes so the thing is
+
+00:39:26.640 --> 00:39:27.140
+then as my point of view,
+
+00:39:28.860 --> 00:39:29.360
+and the point of view probably of Sasaki-san,
+
+00:39:30.240 --> 00:39:30.740
+just a moment, I think,
+
+00:39:34.960 --> 00:39:35.220
+is very focused on an IDE more than a
+
+00:39:40.580 --> 00:39:41.080
+node-taking editor. More like an integrated
+
+00:39:41.540 --> 00:39:42.040
+development environment.
+
+00:39:45.040 --> 00:39:45.540
+So node is like a second thing.
+
+00:39:51.500 --> 00:39:52.000
+So not exactly the main focus.
+
+00:39:54.440 --> 00:39:54.780
+And I know that Emacs does have a very strong
+
+00:39:58.440 --> 00:39:58.940
+community of Ormode users that use Emacs for
+
+00:40:00.140 --> 00:40:00.244
+Ormode, which is the killer feature,
+
+00:40:01.080 --> 00:40:01.360
+1 of I'll do a feature.
+
+00:40:04.456 --> 00:40:04.956
+I'll do a feature of Emacs.
+
+00:40:09.160 --> 00:40:09.660
+So I'm not the maintainer of porthole.
+
+00:40:20.220 --> 00:40:20.580
+I'm sorry. I did add it to so I don't
+
+00:40:22.700 --> 00:40:23.040
+maintain the remote. I'm sorry,
+
+00:40:27.400 --> 00:40:27.840
+I'll pothole the USB. I'm only using it on
+
+00:40:31.120 --> 00:40:31.620
+the Lamington. I cannot change anything.
+
+00:40:39.520 --> 00:40:39.760
+[Speaker 4]: What are some interesting things you have
+
+00:40:40.760 --> 00:40:41.260
+with your window manager?
+
+00:40:43.780 --> 00:40:44.280
+I do have elsewhere.
+
+00:40:49.400 --> 00:40:49.600
+[Speaker 2]: I can connect to it and hack it from my
+
+00:40:53.040 --> 00:40:53.540
+editor, which I think is really fun.
+
+00:40:56.820 --> 00:40:57.220
+The way I can write, so I wrote a few
+
+00:40:58.500 --> 00:40:59.000
+packages for Soundallium.
+
+00:41:06.740 --> 00:41:07.240
+So 1 of them is Proton,
+
+00:41:10.360 --> 00:41:10.860
+which basically launches like a...
+
+00:41:18.480 --> 00:41:18.900
+So Proton is like this wine thing that Valve
+
+00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:22.500
+[Speaker 4]: Yeah, I'm a user.
+
+00:41:24.140 --> 00:41:24.640
+[Speaker 2]: did. OK, so this basically,
+
+00:41:26.480 --> 00:41:26.980
+you have like a list of,
+
+00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:32.540
+let me check. No, we're just,
+
+00:41:38.780 --> 00:41:39.020
+sorry. This, So these all games are bought by
+
+00:41:41.280 --> 00:41:41.780
+me. They're not pirates in any way.
+
+00:41:45.800 --> 00:41:46.300
+I can use this to to launch it.
+
+00:41:50.700 --> 00:41:51.200
+[Speaker 4]: Was that Dmenu or was that StumpWM menu?
+
+00:41:54.800 --> 00:41:55.240
+[Speaker 2]: This is Dmenu. So I have,
+
+00:42:02.300 --> 00:42:02.560
+I also contribute the Dmenu integration into
+
+00:42:05.820 --> 00:42:06.320
+StumwM. So I use Dmenu.
+
+00:42:07.480 --> 00:42:07.980
+So like this, right?
+
+00:42:13.300 --> 00:42:13.800
+[Speaker 4]: Yeah that's pretty cool.
+
+00:42:15.720 --> 00:42:15.940
+You don't know how nice those things are
+
+00:42:16.880 --> 00:42:17.380
+until you start using those.
+
+00:42:21.280 --> 00:42:21.780
+[Speaker 2]: The menu is very interesting and very...
+
+00:42:24.060 --> 00:42:24.560
+Also I was using RoFi,
+
+00:42:25.680 --> 00:42:26.000
+but...
+
+00:42:29.100 --> 00:42:29.540
+[Speaker 4]: I was also more... The other thing I was more
+
+00:42:31.240 --> 00:42:31.740
+mentioning is that also,
+
+00:42:32.860 --> 00:42:33.340
+being able to use D-Menu,
+
+00:42:34.800 --> 00:42:35.300
+but being able to just have keyboard
+
+00:42:38.680 --> 00:42:39.180
+oriented? Everything fuzzy search narrowed
+
+00:42:45.420 --> 00:42:45.480
+and No tabs no status bars like all of a
+
+00:42:47.160 --> 00:42:47.600
+sudden your mental model on how your computer
+
+00:42:51.420 --> 00:42:51.560
+operates goes through the roof and a lot of
+
+00:42:57.900 --> 00:42:58.400
+Emacs users Know what that is like Especially
+
+00:43:01.240 --> 00:43:01.740
+In conjunction with a window manager?
+
+00:43:06.740 --> 00:43:07.200
+[Speaker 2]: Yeah, I think so. I remember when I was...
+
+00:43:11.320 --> 00:43:11.820
+So for me, I tried the Emacs window manager,
+
+00:43:16.840 --> 00:43:17.340
+but it wasn't for me. Having a single thread
+
+00:43:18.460 --> 00:43:18.960
+window manager is scary.
+
+00:43:22.500 --> 00:43:22.840
+And also games and some stuff wasn't working
+
+00:43:25.040 --> 00:43:25.240
+correctly, which it makes sense in some
+
+00:43:27.340 --> 00:43:27.840
+regards, using Emacs for window manager.
+
+00:43:30.660 --> 00:43:31.160
+Oh
+
+00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:34.980
+[Speaker 4]: I've used it before I found that it wasn't as
+
+00:43:39.240 --> 00:43:39.740
+like it. It's not as bad in practice because
+
+00:43:43.020 --> 00:43:43.260
+The paper cuts you don't like to hit them
+
+00:43:45.800 --> 00:43:46.000
+every day So you make sure So you make sure
+
+00:43:48.080 --> 00:43:48.400
+your Emacs config is a lot nicer and doesn't
+
+00:43:51.040 --> 00:43:51.300
+have those slowdowns. Or you avoid those
+
+00:43:54.440 --> 00:43:54.780
+things. It forces you to make your Emacs
+
+00:43:59.440 --> 00:43:59.940
+config a lot more robust to speed.
+
+00:44:02.040 --> 00:44:02.300
+[Speaker 2]: Yeah, yeah. That's true,
+
+00:44:04.200 --> 00:44:04.440
+yeah. The thing, yeah,
+
+00:44:05.600 --> 00:44:06.020
+but still, I don't know,
+
+00:44:08.680 --> 00:44:09.060
+[Speaker 4]: You'll still get the paper cuts,
+
+00:44:09.060 --> 00:44:09.560
+but...
+
+00:44:12.360 --> 00:44:12.660
+[Speaker 2]: like... Yeah, and my experience was not
+
+00:44:16.500 --> 00:44:16.880
+great. I'm not a person,
+
+00:44:17.860 --> 00:44:18.360
+like, I don't want to have...
+
+00:44:19.960 --> 00:44:20.460
+Not with LEM or Emacs.
+
+00:44:22.660 --> 00:44:23.160
+I like to have different programs.
+
+00:44:25.840 --> 00:44:26.120
+I don't want to like, I never was in like
+
+00:44:28.040 --> 00:44:28.540
+Emacs or you know, only Emacs.
+
+00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:30.800
+I really love Emacs, GNU Emacs,
+
+00:44:33.920 --> 00:44:34.140
+but only Emacs? No, no,
+
+00:44:35.300 --> 00:44:35.540
+I like my browser, I like my,
+
+00:44:37.500 --> 00:44:38.000
+you know, my Windows Manager,
+
+00:44:41.280 --> 00:44:41.780
+my, you know, I wasn't Emacs only.
+
+00:44:45.520 --> 00:44:46.000
+Emacs is my OS. Some people are,
+
+00:44:48.600 --> 00:44:49.100
+which is good. Different kind of a...
+
+00:44:51.600 --> 00:44:52.100
+I have to say that I come from Vim,
+
+00:44:57.340 --> 00:44:57.720
+like a long time ago. But I come from Vim,
+
+00:44:58.660 --> 00:44:58.980
+so I'm using Evil Mode.
+
+00:45:00.280 --> 00:45:00.780
+And I maybe have this kind of a...
+
+00:45:05.700 --> 00:45:06.200
+Yeah. So regarding Summoner.vm,
+
+00:45:10.080 --> 00:45:10.580
+it's... I like it because it's common Lisp,
+
+00:45:13.940 --> 00:45:14.440
+but it don't have some,
+
+00:45:18.120 --> 00:45:18.620
+this, I removed this. So I'm using another
+
+00:45:21.040 --> 00:45:21.340
+model line because the model line is not
+
+00:45:24.440 --> 00:45:24.720
+great. Everything else is a little bit weird
+
+00:45:28.940 --> 00:45:29.440
+because you have frames similar to Emacs.
+
+00:45:33.560 --> 00:45:34.060
+You have a frame. You have this window,
+
+00:45:35.600 --> 00:45:36.100
+and then there's no nothing here.
+
+00:45:37.700 --> 00:45:38.100
+[Speaker 4]: Yeah, I've used it before.
+
+00:45:39.720 --> 00:45:40.220
+That was definitely weird.
+
+00:45:41.680 --> 00:45:42.180
+It's also nice to be able to just...
+
+00:45:43.660 --> 00:45:44.160
+Can't you put multiple windows?
+
+00:45:46.100 --> 00:45:46.600
+Can't you duplicate windows?
+
+00:45:48.040 --> 00:45:48.540
+Show the same window in 2 frames?
+
+00:45:48.560 --> 00:45:49.060
+NIGEL
+
+00:45:51.020 --> 00:45:51.520
+[Speaker 2]: GANSZELA-WALSH Never tried that.
+
+00:45:54.400 --> 00:45:54.900
+Never occurred to me that.
+
+00:45:57.840 --> 00:45:58.020
+I don't know. Never tried that,
+
+00:46:01.480 --> 00:46:01.980
+to be honest. Let me check.
+
+00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:07.780
+No idea. Item? I think so.
+
+00:46:10.080 --> 00:46:10.320
+Because when you try to,
+
+00:46:11.520 --> 00:46:11.980
+at least not in an easy way.
+
+00:46:13.940 --> 00:46:14.260
+When you try to, so if I try to put a window
+
+00:46:16.020 --> 00:46:16.520
+here, let me move it so it,
+
+00:46:20.060 --> 00:46:20.540
+and if I try to like, so it's,
+
+00:46:21.680 --> 00:46:21.890
+yeah, no other window.
+
+00:46:24.100 --> 00:46:24.360
+[Speaker 4]: So can you open the, what is that,
+
+00:46:25.080 --> 00:46:25.440
+discord or your browser?
+
+00:46:26.840 --> 00:46:27.340
+Could you open that in both your frames?
+
+00:46:34.620 --> 00:46:35.120
+[Speaker 2]: I can I Side by side, but not the same
+
+00:46:37.740 --> 00:46:37.920
+[Speaker 0]: I mean I do I can I can have I know
+
+00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:38.600
+[Speaker 4]: can't your frames? 2 browsers you can do that
+
+00:46:42.600 --> 00:46:43.100
+[Speaker 2]: browser I never occurred to me that,
+
+00:46:46.300 --> 00:46:46.800
+[Speaker 4]: in DWM? You can't do that in XMLNet,
+
+00:46:48.560 --> 00:46:49.060
+at least I don't know what configuration
+
+00:46:50.820 --> 00:46:51.020
+you'd have to do to get to be able to do that
+
+00:46:51.140 --> 00:46:51.640
+in XMONAD.
+
+00:46:54.060 --> 00:46:54.560
+[Speaker 2]: wow. Interesting. Maybe you can.
+
+00:46:57.700 --> 00:46:58.200
+I never tried. Maybe you can?
+
+00:47:03.240 --> 00:47:03.640
+No idea. The interesting thing that I never
+
+00:47:05.860 --> 00:47:06.360
+use is that floating windows.
+
+00:47:09.520 --> 00:47:09.960
+Never use floating windows,
+
+00:47:13.480 --> 00:47:13.780
+but normal windows. You know,
+
+00:47:17.780 --> 00:47:18.160
+not. And SoundWM does have a weird support
+
+00:47:24.720 --> 00:47:25.220
+for it. Now it works. But I don't like it.
+
+00:47:26.680 --> 00:47:27.180
+For me, it was a little bit rough,
+
+00:47:29.480 --> 00:47:29.980
+the use of floating windows in SoundWM.
+
+00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:32.980
+I think they're way better now.
+
+00:47:36.580 --> 00:47:37.080
+I think, but yeah, I don't use it so...
+
+00:47:40.600 --> 00:47:41.100
+But there is.
+
+00:47:43.520 --> 00:47:43.940
+[Speaker 4]: You know, for me with the,
+
+00:47:45.060 --> 00:47:45.480
+like, Emacs doing everything,
+
+00:47:46.880 --> 00:47:47.380
+it's like, you got like Emacs,
+
+00:47:50.320 --> 00:47:50.740
+you got shell, and then you got the gooey
+
+00:47:56.520 --> 00:47:56.760
+Wild West. Yeah. Like,
+
+00:47:58.940 --> 00:47:59.440
+with Emacs, I know, I'll generally get,
+
+00:48:01.280 --> 00:48:01.780
+oh, this is going to be configured in?
+
+00:48:04.160 --> 00:48:04.660
+It's either gonna be shell script,
+
+00:48:06.180 --> 00:48:06.340
+Python or Emacs. Oh wait,
+
+00:48:07.000 --> 00:48:07.500
+no, it's gonna be Emacs.
+
+00:48:09.680 --> 00:48:10.180
+Variable's gonna be written in SecQ,
+
+00:48:10.380 --> 00:48:10.880
+period.
+
+00:48:16.640 --> 00:48:17.140
+[Speaker 2]: Well, I don't use too much scripting,
+
+00:48:18.260 --> 00:48:18.540
+but I'd like to, for example,
+
+00:48:21.540 --> 00:48:22.040
+I had to do a, so the automatic installer
+
+00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:26.500
+for, for Debian base, Debian stuff for Linux
+
+00:48:30.340 --> 00:48:30.840
+for, for LEM. I was thinking of doing in bash
+
+00:48:32.520 --> 00:48:33.020
+and I say, I don't want to do it in Bash.
+
+00:48:35.380 --> 00:48:35.880
+So I just did it in SVC and Commodisp,
+
+00:48:37.660 --> 00:48:38.100
+which does have like a scripting feature.
+
+00:48:40.920 --> 00:48:41.040
+You can put a script and it will create your
+
+00:48:41.160 --> 00:48:41.660
+own script.
+
+00:48:45.860 --> 00:48:46.280
+[Speaker 4]: 1 of the main people behind Next,
+
+00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:50.880
+he did a talk on using Common Lisp as a
+
+00:48:51.720 --> 00:48:52.220
+replacement for a shell.
+
+00:48:58.700 --> 00:48:59.200
+[Speaker 2]: Yes, it was... I know him.
+
+00:49:00.680 --> 00:49:01.180
+I know that he exists.
+
+00:49:04.600 --> 00:49:04.900
+Next, I think it's a main maintainer of Nix,
+
+00:49:09.140 --> 00:49:09.620
+[Speaker 4]: Yeah, although his website's kind of,
+
+00:49:10.380 --> 00:49:10.880
+I think he took it down.
+
+00:49:12.280 --> 00:49:12.780
+[Speaker 2]: Ambrevar. Yeah, I think he,
+
+00:49:14.480 --> 00:49:14.980
+yeah, he took it down.
+
+00:49:17.360 --> 00:49:17.680
+[Speaker 4]: So if you want to, you can look at it in Time
+
+00:49:17.680 --> 00:49:18.180
+Machine.
+
+00:49:23.940 --> 00:49:24.440
+[Speaker 2]: Yeah, I do have that article in my bookmarks,
+
+00:49:26.740 --> 00:49:27.240
+I think, somewhere. I remember reading that.
+
+00:49:30.360 --> 00:49:30.840
+So also, I would like to keep separated
+
+00:49:32.880 --> 00:49:33.380
+things in that way to have shell and then
+
+00:49:37.940 --> 00:49:38.440
+Emacs or LEM. Like for Emacs I use Viter.
+
+00:49:40.760 --> 00:49:41.260
+I don't like that it has different,
+
+00:49:41.760 --> 00:49:42.260
+you know.
+
+00:49:44.900 --> 00:49:45.060
+[Speaker 4]: On the same time though,
+
+00:49:46.960 --> 00:49:47.120
+I also don't like my terminal not to be able
+
+00:49:52.340 --> 00:49:52.600
+to click URLs and I like I like my terminal
+
+00:49:54.560 --> 00:49:55.060
+to have history and you know to scroll
+
+00:49:58.040 --> 00:49:58.200
+position copy paste You can do some of that
+
+00:50:00.020 --> 00:50:00.160
+stuff, but you know how that stuff go on the
+
+00:50:01.960 --> 00:50:02.080
+killer ring I kind of view it as like an
+
+00:50:02.800 --> 00:50:03.300
+alternative to shell.
+
+00:50:06.940 --> 00:50:07.080
+[Speaker 2]: Fair enough, but I think when some for my
+
+00:50:08.720 --> 00:50:09.220
+terminal, I only use it for navigate,
+
+00:50:11.280 --> 00:50:11.780
+remove stuff, so basic stuff.
+
+00:50:14.280 --> 00:50:14.640
+When I have to like, I don't know,
+
+00:50:17.640 --> 00:50:18.140
+edit something, just open the...
+
+00:50:22.120 --> 00:50:22.400
+[Speaker 4]: I like to use completion and narrowing to
+
+00:50:24.480 --> 00:50:24.720
+find my files. I kind of wish I could do that
+
+00:50:26.320 --> 00:50:26.600
+[Speaker 0]: on the shell or like if you use
+
+00:50:27.400 --> 00:50:27.640
+[Speaker 4]: more D-Menu to do that.
+
+00:50:28.440 --> 00:50:28.760
+That would be, I'm sure,
+
+00:50:28.760 --> 00:50:29.260
+nicer.
+
+00:50:38.140 --> 00:50:38.240
+[Speaker 2]: There's a lot of tools for terminals to do
+
+00:50:39.800 --> 00:50:39.880
+that, right? But you have to configure all of
+
+00:50:41.580 --> 00:50:41.780
+them. Beam users are very aware of those
+
+00:50:46.980 --> 00:50:47.300
+tools. You know, having very good fuzzy
+
+00:50:49.240 --> 00:50:49.440
+finding of files and then all by the
+
+00:50:53.680 --> 00:50:54.100
+terminal. I do have a friend who is a user of
+
+00:50:56.820 --> 00:50:57.320
+the Forbidden Editor, he's good,
+
+00:51:01.900 --> 00:51:02.400
+that does have a lot of small,
+
+00:51:09.480 --> 00:51:09.980
+like fuzzy finding, and so complete commands,
+
+00:51:12.240 --> 00:51:12.740
+and call those images in the terminal,
+
+00:51:14.300 --> 00:51:14.800
+all sorts of crazy stuff.
+
+00:51:16.120 --> 00:51:16.620
+That I think are not overkill,
+
+00:51:20.380 --> 00:51:20.560
+but I mean, if you want to use it,
+
+00:51:29.540 --> 00:51:30.040
+go ahead. So yeah. The thing is that,
+
+00:51:32.360 --> 00:51:32.860
+So trickling back a little bit to LEM,
+
+00:51:35.600 --> 00:51:35.860
+I think an interesting thought that I have
+
+00:51:37.280 --> 00:51:37.780
+about LEM and I can do Emacs.
+
+00:51:40.680 --> 00:51:41.180
+Not now, because LEM is a very small,
+
+00:51:43.740 --> 00:51:44.240
+like literally people,
+
+00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:46.500
+at least developers and users,
+
+00:51:50.280 --> 00:51:50.780
+I don't know, maybe 10 less.
+
+00:51:56.780 --> 00:51:57.280
+But people may think, split the community,
+
+00:51:58.740 --> 00:51:58.900
+right? That's the main thing that should come
+
+00:51:59.960 --> 00:52:00.460
+to my mind, split the community,
+
+00:52:01.840 --> 00:52:02.140
+maybe you, because that's true.
+
+00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:04.280
+I mean, I'm not developing that much in Nui
+
+00:52:06.260 --> 00:52:06.760
+MacLisp because I'm developing them.
+
+00:52:12.080 --> 00:52:12.580
+That's not that I'm a force that you might
+
+00:52:13.360 --> 00:52:13.860
+think exists or anything,
+
+00:52:17.220 --> 00:52:17.400
+but you know, you're splitting a very small
+
+00:52:21.600 --> 00:52:21.760
+community. Not that LEM wants to do that or
+
+00:52:24.160 --> 00:52:24.360
+anything, or will be able to in any way,
+
+00:52:25.280 --> 00:52:25.780
+but you know what I mean.
+
+00:52:32.360 --> 00:52:32.780
+I thought about that, And I think it's an
+
+00:52:40.600 --> 00:52:40.800
+interesting concern. But that concern also
+
+00:52:42.180 --> 00:52:42.680
+stops innovation in some way.
+
+00:52:46.960 --> 00:52:47.460
+[Speaker 4]: I think you can, if you look at the example
+
+00:52:50.200 --> 00:52:50.680
+of how many EMAX talks are related to
+
+00:52:54.760 --> 00:52:54.960
+knowledge management and not all and like for
+
+00:52:57.840 --> 00:52:58.100
+instance denote and Orgrim don't really work
+
+00:53:01.740 --> 00:53:01.880
+together all that well they split the
+
+00:53:03.740 --> 00:53:03.960
+community so to say I don't think they make
+
+00:53:04.720 --> 00:53:05.220
+it weaker at all, though.
+
+00:53:08.560 --> 00:53:08.800
+I think you were saying competition is good,
+
+00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:10.500
+but yeah, competition is good.
+
+00:53:12.100 --> 00:53:12.360
+[Speaker 2]: Yeah, I agree on that.
+
+00:53:13.280 --> 00:53:13.780
+I want to put it in the...
+
+00:53:15.400 --> 00:53:15.900
+But, you know, I'm doing the devil's advocate
+
+00:53:18.252 --> 00:53:18.271
+[Speaker 0]: something, that's... The developer gates in
+
+00:53:18.308 --> 00:53:18.327
+this regard. Like
+
+00:53:18.327 --> 00:53:18.346
+[Speaker 2]: in this regard. If someone wants to say if
+
+00:53:19.280 --> 00:53:19.780
+someone wants to like say something that
+
+00:53:22.920 --> 00:53:23.160
+maybe, you know, because some people still
+
+00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:30.940
+remember the Emacs versus X Emacs thing in
+
+00:53:34.860 --> 00:53:35.360
+the past, you know, that the split of the and
+
+00:53:38.100 --> 00:53:38.240
+That was good in some way but also bad in
+
+00:53:39.800 --> 00:53:39.960
+others like the compatibility was a little
+
+00:53:42.560 --> 00:53:43.040
+bit of a hell You know at the end Emacs
+
+00:53:46.160 --> 00:53:46.440
+failed, no Emacs But at that time it wasn't
+
+00:53:50.140 --> 00:53:50.500
+that clear and some people like it wasn't
+
+00:53:53.200 --> 00:53:53.360
+there. And I can understand that kind of a
+
+00:53:53.360 --> 00:53:53.860
+feeling.
+
+00:53:58.820 --> 00:53:59.040
+[Speaker 4]: Well sometimes the steps forward you end up
+
+00:54:02.640 --> 00:54:02.760
+going Like you're on a hill and you want to
+
+00:54:05.820 --> 00:54:06.000
+[Speaker 0]: the way the path to get up to
+
+00:54:06.440 --> 00:54:06.720
+[Speaker 4]: get to a higher hill, but that higher hill
+
+00:54:10.920 --> 00:54:11.280
+goes down and up. It doesn't mean that even
+
+00:54:12.240 --> 00:54:12.600
+if you know you're going down,
+
+00:54:13.840 --> 00:54:14.340
+it doesn't mean that it was a mistake.
+
+00:54:19.740 --> 00:54:20.020
+[Speaker 2]: Okay, fair enough. And also another
+
+00:54:22.120 --> 00:54:22.360
+interesting thing that I want to envision in
+
+00:54:25.520 --> 00:54:25.720
+the future, if I have time or someone wants
+
+00:54:28.400 --> 00:54:28.740
+to help me with, is I want them to have
+
+00:54:30.240 --> 00:54:30.740
+different language for extension,
+
+00:54:32.560 --> 00:54:33.060
+different Lisp for extension,
+
+00:54:36.340 --> 00:54:36.840
+not only common Lisp, but Scheme closure.
+
+00:54:39.680 --> 00:54:40.080
+And maybe not EmacLisp probably,
+
+00:54:46.500 --> 00:54:47.000
+[Speaker 4]: that what Guile Emacs is trying to do?
+
+00:54:47.860 --> 00:54:48.080
+[Speaker 2]: but yeah. And funny enough- Isn't Guile Emacs
+
+00:54:50.060 --> 00:54:50.560
+tried to add Guile support to,
+
+00:54:52.040 --> 00:54:52.540
+but Guile is not scheme.
+
+00:54:53.560 --> 00:54:53.800
+Well, it's kind of scheme,
+
+00:54:54.440 --> 00:54:54.940
+but it's not all schemes,
+
+00:54:58.580 --> 00:54:58.780
+which is, you know, and it was just to
+
+00:55:02.540 --> 00:55:03.040
+replace EmacLisp with Gile.
+
+00:55:06.940 --> 00:55:07.260
+You have 2 both. It was similar in that way,
+
+00:55:12.100 --> 00:55:12.340
+but the thing is, Common Lisp does have a lot
+
+00:55:12.900 --> 00:55:13.220
+of interesting things.
+
+00:55:16.120 --> 00:55:16.620
+So someone wrote a closure in Common Lisp.
+
+00:55:20.640 --> 00:55:21.140
+Which is called Cloture.
+
+00:55:29.720 --> 00:55:29.860
+Someone wrote, well it's on the way but it's
+
+00:55:35.440 --> 00:55:35.740
+getting there, a standard scheme in Common
+
+00:55:39.440 --> 00:55:39.940
+Lisp. So to add support to LEM,
+
+00:55:44.440 --> 00:55:44.940
+will be as easy as import package,
+
+00:55:46.360 --> 00:55:46.860
+and you have, And if that language,
+
+00:55:49.640 --> 00:55:50.060
+which usually does, supports very well
+
+00:55:51.740 --> 00:55:51.900
+interaction between the host language and the
+
+00:55:52.920 --> 00:55:53.420
+language that tries to provide,
+
+00:55:57.040 --> 00:55:57.180
+you will mostly automatically have new
+
+00:55:58.060 --> 00:55:58.560
+language for the editor.
+
+00:56:05.640 --> 00:56:06.100
+[Speaker 4]: I think the more interesting hanging fruit
+
+00:56:09.280 --> 00:56:09.780
+would be like using Next to scrape websites,
+
+00:56:12.500 --> 00:56:13.000
+download CSV bank statements,
+
+00:56:15.940 --> 00:56:16.440
+integrating with like password managers and
+
+00:56:27.880 --> 00:56:28.180
+or using... yeah you could still do with
+
+00:56:30.120 --> 00:56:30.620
+[Speaker 2]: But isn't that more like next thing oh yeah
+
+00:56:31.460 --> 00:56:31.580
+yeah I
+
+00:56:32.400 --> 00:56:32.520
+[Speaker 4]: common list though mean what's your your
+
+00:56:34.760 --> 00:56:35.260
+other options would be Selenium,
+
+00:56:41.200 --> 00:56:41.580
+JavaScript, Next already gives you the REPL
+
+00:56:47.940 --> 00:56:48.300
+for that. Or when you had that Ambryvar talk,
+
+00:56:50.060 --> 00:56:50.220
+when he, I don't know if you watched it,
+
+00:56:52.920 --> 00:56:53.420
+but when you use a shell and a command takes
+
+00:56:56.060 --> 00:56:56.200
+takes a while It just automatically takes you
+
+00:56:58.440 --> 00:56:58.580
+back into your shell and says I'll just let
+
+00:57:00.520 --> 00:57:00.800
+this run in the background or being able to
+
+00:57:02.760 --> 00:57:03.260
+more easily run commands in parallel.
+
+00:57:13.620 --> 00:57:13.880
+[Speaker 2]: But that's not like Nix stuff,
+
+00:57:18.740 --> 00:57:19.140
+[Speaker 4]: The Ambrivar, the shell 1,
+
+00:57:21.540 --> 00:57:21.900
+[Speaker 2]: right? Not like? When he did it,
+
+00:57:23.380 --> 00:57:23.580
+he. Because 1
+
+00:57:25.340 --> 00:57:25.440
+[Speaker 4]: wasn't. of the things He did in that when he
+
+00:57:30.040 --> 00:57:30.160
+was using the repl in place of the shell is 1
+
+00:57:31.240 --> 00:57:31.740
+of the things in there was if,
+
+00:57:33.720 --> 00:57:34.120
+let's say you were compiling a program,
+
+00:57:36.820 --> 00:57:37.040
+that takes a while. If it took longer than
+
+00:57:40.240 --> 00:57:40.440
+like 3 seconds or something along those
+
+00:57:42.560 --> 00:57:42.740
+lines, it would kick you back into the shell
+
+00:57:44.260 --> 00:57:44.660
+and say, oh, we're waiting for this program
+
+00:57:48.160 --> 00:57:48.380
+[Speaker 2]: Oh, interesting. And
+
+00:57:48.840 --> 00:57:49.340
+[Speaker 4]: to run, to finish. then you could,
+
+00:57:51.200 --> 00:57:51.600
+and then it had back reference support.
+
+00:57:55.260 --> 00:57:55.520
+So you could say, Oh, app search for this
+
+00:57:58.480 --> 00:57:58.820
+program. And then with the,
+
+00:58:00.780 --> 00:58:01.220
+with the shell, I, when I want to search,
+
+00:58:04.460 --> 00:58:04.640
+I'll then grep through that list to narrow it
+
+00:58:06.900 --> 00:58:07.180
+down even further, but I do a whole new
+
+00:58:08.400 --> 00:58:08.900
+search. It just says, oh,
+
+00:58:10.600 --> 00:58:11.100
+just grep through what I already searched.
+
+00:58:14.180 --> 00:58:14.680
+Just grep through the results of the command
+
+00:58:15.940 --> 00:58:16.440
+that's 3 commands ago.
+
+00:58:17.980 --> 00:58:18.180
+[Speaker 2]: Interesting. So it
+
+00:58:23.880 --> 00:58:24.380
+[Speaker 4]: runs instantly. Or look for my build errors
+
+00:58:25.840 --> 00:58:26.340
+in my compilation output,
+
+00:58:29.700 --> 00:58:30.060
+[Speaker 0]: rather than trying to build it again grepping
+
+00:58:30.360 --> 00:58:30.860
+for the errors.
+
+00:58:33.640 --> 00:58:34.120
+[Speaker 2]: I was checking, so where's that project?
+
+00:58:36.420 --> 00:58:36.920
+I was looking for it. You know,
+
+00:58:44.540 --> 00:58:45.040
+the... Yeah, I want to check the,
+
+00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:48.500
+[Speaker 4]: There was a talk. I also had a webpage.
+
+00:58:55.080 --> 00:58:55.580
+[Speaker 2]: you know... This red bull?
+
+00:58:58.260 --> 00:58:58.760
+No, this is not what I meant.
+
+00:59:34.174 --> 00:59:34.674
+[Speaker 0]: What is it? What is it?
+
+00:59:47.664 --> 00:59:48.164
+I cannot find the... I was trying to find
+
+00:59:54.180 --> 00:59:54.680
+[Speaker 2]: the repo for... It's C-L-E-S-H,
+
+00:59:59.640 --> 00:59:59.840
+like a unit shell for interface with for
+
+01:00:02.080 --> 01:00:02.580
+common Lisp? Is that the thing?
+
+01:00:09.000 --> 01:00:09.160
+[Speaker 0]: I don't know. I'm
+
+01:00:12.260 --> 01:00:12.760
+[Speaker 4]: trying to find the link to his old,
+
+01:00:16.560 --> 01:00:17.060
+no longer website. Website.
+
+01:00:21.500 --> 01:00:22.000
+[Speaker 2]: Skip. Technical issues.
+
+01:00:23.400 --> 01:00:23.900
+Maybe this 1.
+
+01:00:35.820 --> 01:00:36.320
+I cannot find it.
+
+01:00:37.800 --> 01:00:38.300
+[Speaker 4]: I got it.
+
+01:00:51.140 --> 01:00:51.640
+[Speaker 0]: Go to that link. Okay.
+
+01:01:02.020 --> 01:01:02.220
+[Speaker 4]: There's also a FOSDM target associated with
+
+01:01:02.380 --> 01:01:02.880
+it too.
+
+01:01:07.600 --> 01:01:08.100
+[Speaker 2]: Oh yeah, interesting. Clash and CH.
+
+01:01:13.520 --> 01:01:14.020
+CH. Oh, I was looking at the clesh.
+
+01:01:18.640 --> 01:01:19.140
+Clish, so the, let's check for it.
+
+01:01:23.560 --> 01:01:23.860
+The other 1 is shell and camel.
+
+01:01:24.120 --> 01:01:24.620
+This 1.
+
+01:01:37.505 --> 01:01:38.005
+[Speaker 0]: Interesting. Oops. Close Oops.
+
+01:01:40.900 --> 01:01:41.400
+[Speaker 2]: Oh, it's a GNU project.
+
+01:01:44.660 --> 01:01:45.160
+Oh, interesting.
+
+01:01:51.400 --> 01:01:51.680
+[Speaker 4]: The other thing that was interesting there is
+
+01:01:52.760 --> 01:01:53.260
+you use those disk images,
+
+01:02:00.140 --> 01:02:00.520
+LISP images, to have some of your common LISP
+
+01:02:05.920 --> 01:02:06.100
+utilities or programming libraries that you
+
+01:02:07.660 --> 01:02:08.040
+utilize in tandem with your REPL.
+
+01:02:13.700 --> 01:02:14.200
+So you can easily pull up a more featureful
+
+01:02:18.160 --> 01:02:18.400
+or a REPL that has more tools in it than by
+
+01:02:18.400 --> 01:02:18.900
+default.
+
+01:02:21.740 --> 01:02:22.240
+[Speaker 2]: Interesting. So yeah, that's,
+
+01:02:24.380 --> 01:02:24.880
+yeah, I mean, that will be,
+
+01:02:26.800 --> 01:02:27.100
+it will be fairly, no,
+
+01:02:28.700 --> 01:02:29.200
+no, easy. Well, easy, but not,
+
+01:02:33.080 --> 01:02:33.580
+But this can be integrated into LEM probably.
+
+01:02:36.060 --> 01:02:36.200
+Very, you know, not that easy because you
+
+01:02:38.520 --> 01:02:39.020
+have to change the few things.
+
+01:02:43.780 --> 01:02:44.280
+But this can be, you know.
+
+01:02:47.100 --> 01:02:47.600
+[Speaker 4]: Well, as example, he just...
+
+01:02:49.360 --> 01:02:49.860
+Well, 1 of the things that was in the talk,
+
+01:02:51.080 --> 01:02:51.300
+1 of the main ideas was,
+
+01:02:56.160 --> 01:02:56.380
+let's just, rather than trying to make the
+
+01:02:57.600 --> 01:02:58.040
+shell closer to a REPL,
+
+01:03:00.780 --> 01:03:01.280
+let's make a REPL closer to a shell,
+
+01:03:03.380 --> 01:03:03.760
+make it to where we can easily run Linux
+
+01:03:07.280 --> 01:03:07.420
+programs in it, and then use the rest of the
+
+01:03:10.120 --> 01:03:10.620
+REPL goodness, make it to where parentheses
+
+01:03:12.080 --> 01:03:12.580
+are easy to use, like paraedit,
+
+01:03:20.920 --> 01:03:21.420
+And then all of a sudden you have a nicer
+
+01:03:24.320 --> 01:03:24.640
+shell. Not really shell,
+
+01:03:24.640 --> 01:03:25.140
+but.
+
+01:03:30.020 --> 01:03:30.520
+[Speaker 2]: Oh, this is huge.
+
+01:03:33.520 --> 01:03:33.960
+[Speaker 6]: Hi, folks. Sorry for the interruption.
+
+01:03:35.200 --> 01:03:35.700
+It's Leo from the general track.
+
+01:03:39.380 --> 01:03:39.600
+We are about to go back live on the
+
+01:03:41.880 --> 01:03:42.040
+development track, so you can continue the
+
+01:03:43.080 --> 01:03:43.480
+discussion. You know, we are recording
+
+01:03:45.200 --> 01:03:45.360
+everything and you seem to be having a great
+
+01:03:47.520 --> 01:03:47.840
+amount of fun to issue the need for lunch,
+
+01:03:49.080 --> 01:03:49.580
+at least for the people in the US.
+
+01:03:51.160 --> 01:03:51.360
+I just want to let you know,
+
+01:03:53.680 --> 01:03:53.860
+in 2 minutes' time, we will be moving back to
+
+01:03:54.840 --> 01:03:55.340
+the rest of the talk for the afternoon,
+
+01:03:56.840 --> 01:03:57.040
+but feel free to stay in a room and keep
+
+01:03:57.760 --> 01:03:58.260
+discussing. All right?
+
+01:04:01.160 --> 01:04:01.660
+[Speaker 2]: Thank you. All right.
+
+01:04:03.640 --> 01:04:03.940
+[Speaker 6]: It might be a little brutal in 2 minutes,
+
+01:04:07.920 --> 01:04:08.240
+so if you have your watch synchronized at 7
+
+01:04:09.080 --> 01:04:09.520
+sharps, so in 2 minutes,
+
+01:04:10.040 --> 01:04:10.540
+it'll cut off.
+
+01:04:19.600 --> 01:04:20.100
+[Speaker 2]: Okay. Bye-bye. Bye. Oh my.
+
+01:04:23.860 --> 01:04:24.360
+Yeah. Interesting stuff indeed.
+
+01:04:29.380 --> 01:04:29.540
+[Speaker 4]: to listen to it after you're done with the
+
+01:04:32.380 --> 01:04:32.540
+[Speaker 0]: I guess you have Have you
+
+01:04:33.480 --> 01:04:33.980
+[Speaker 4]: comp. ever listened to that talk before?
+
+01:04:38.320 --> 01:04:38.800
+The 1 that's in that webpage,
+
+01:04:39.380 --> 01:04:39.880
+the FOSDEM 1.
+
+01:04:40.840 --> 01:04:41.340
+[Speaker 2]: Which 1? Sorry? 0 yeah,
+
+01:04:44.480 --> 01:04:44.980
+I in fact saw him live in the FOSDEM 2020.
+
+01:04:50.053 --> 01:04:50.091
+[Speaker 0]: So I a little bit. 2020.
+
+01:04:50.166 --> 01:04:50.204
+So we him
+
+01:04:51.760 --> 01:04:51.980
+[Speaker 2]: talked with him a little bit The first time
+
+01:04:55.760 --> 01:04:56.260
+is here in well here in Europe here in
+
+01:05:01.320 --> 01:05:01.440
+Brussels like 3 hours away or 2 hours away in
+
+01:05:02.320 --> 01:05:02.820
+plane from where I am.
+
+01:05:05.320 --> 01:05:05.800
+[Speaker 0]: 1 of the things that's kind of interesting
+
+01:05:06.900 --> 01:05:07.040
+with, you have some of
+
+01:05:09.060 --> 01:05:09.160
+[Speaker 4]: the people who come from Europe to the US and
+
+01:05:11.820 --> 01:05:11.980
+they're like, oh, I want to visit all the
+
+01:05:13.780 --> 01:05:14.060
+corners of the US in a couple of days.
+
+01:05:17.920 --> 01:05:18.420
+And it's like, No, US is the size of Europe.
+
+01:05:19.740 --> 01:05:19.960
+[Speaker 0]: The
+
+01:05:21.160 --> 01:05:21.660
+[Speaker 4]: states are the size of their countries.
+
+01:05:23.140 --> 01:05:23.400
+You don't...
+
+01:05:27.100 --> 01:05:27.600
+[Speaker 2]: I know. I know. It's very...
+
+01:05:30.660 --> 01:05:31.080
+It's huge. And it's like 6 hours different
+
+01:05:32.280 --> 01:05:32.780
+from coast to coast, something like that.
+
+01:05:38.000 --> 01:05:38.240
+[Speaker 4]: Yeah, and that's driving as fast as you can
+
+01:05:39.960 --> 01:05:40.140
+on the freeway, on the best roads that you
+
+01:05:41.160 --> 01:05:41.660
+possibly can, not taking...
+
+01:05:45.700 --> 01:05:46.200
+[Speaker 2]: Yeah, that would be...
+
+01:05:53.400 --> 01:05:53.900
+So the thing that I try to do also with LEM
+
+01:05:57.880 --> 01:05:58.140
+is to move my workflow from LEM to Emax,
+
+01:06:01.620 --> 01:06:02.120
+so for Emax to LEM, use it more.
+
+01:06:07.080 --> 01:06:07.580
+And I hope to, we still have a long way to go
+
+01:06:08.440 --> 01:06:08.940
+in terms of usability,
+
+01:06:10.600 --> 01:06:11.100
+in terms of other things,
+
+01:06:12.640 --> 01:06:13.140
+because we need more power.
+
+01:06:18.420 --> 01:06:18.620
+So This is also my attempt to do some
+
+01:06:20.320 --> 01:06:20.820
+publicity to the Blend project itself,
+
+01:06:23.100 --> 01:06:23.600
+to need to add more users,
+
+01:06:26.200 --> 01:06:26.700
+to be willing to try and to fail trying,
+
+01:06:29.640 --> 01:06:30.140
+because we still have some rough edges.
+
+01:06:38.320 --> 01:06:38.820
+Yeah, just trying to do that,
+
+01:06:41.720 --> 01:06:42.220
+which is, and I apologize to the Emaclist
+
+01:06:43.580 --> 01:06:43.740
+community, which I'm part of,
+
+01:06:44.660 --> 01:06:45.140
+but I don't want to like,
+
+01:06:47.020 --> 01:06:47.520
+disencourage the use of getting Emacs anyway.
+
+01:06:48.960 --> 01:06:49.460
+I think both are awesome.
+
+01:06:51.300 --> 01:06:51.800
+I want to anyone to get a real impression.
+
+01:06:57.040 --> 01:06:57.100
+[Speaker 0]: What do
+
+01:06:57.740 --> 01:06:58.240
+[Speaker 2]: you think? PlasmaStrike,
+
+01:07:01.560 --> 01:07:02.060
+you have a very powerful name.
+
+01:07:07.580 --> 01:07:07.840
+[Speaker 4]: I don't think that's something to worry
+
+01:07:09.660 --> 01:07:10.160
+about. I don't personally,
+
+01:07:15.380 --> 01:07:15.760
+but I'm going to watch the EMMS talk.
+
+01:07:17.360 --> 01:07:17.560
+That's something that I don't really use too
+
+01:07:20.800 --> 01:07:21.220
+much on my Emacs config.
+
+01:07:22.600 --> 01:07:23.100
+So I'm going to let you go.
+
+01:07:24.440 --> 01:07:24.720
+[Speaker 2]: OK, yeah, I'm going to go.
+
+01:07:26.320 --> 01:07:26.760
+I'm going to maybe watch the garbage
+
+01:07:27.800 --> 01:07:28.300
+collector talk, which is interesting.
+
+01:07:32.540 --> 01:07:33.040
+So thank you all very much.
+
+01:07:35.860 --> 01:07:36.080
+I'm gonna go. Thanks for the questions and
+
+01:07:40.811 --> 01:07:41.288
+all that. I think I hope I answered correctly
+
+01:07:47.040 --> 01:07:47.540
+[Speaker 4]: is part of the value of being part of this is
+
+01:07:50.580 --> 01:07:50.740
+[Speaker 2]: all of them. Yeah, I figure this that's a way
+
+01:07:52.540 --> 01:07:53.040
+[Speaker 4]: conversations. So of saying thank you for
+
+01:07:54.480 --> 01:07:54.980
+people sharing interesting talks.
+
+01:07:57.780 --> 01:07:57.940
+[Speaker 2]: Indeed. Thank you all very much for going to
+
+01:08:02.380 --> 01:08:02.880
+the Emacs conf and to watch me.
+
+01:08:06.440 --> 01:08:06.940
+So thank you all very much.
+
+01:08:09.360 --> 01:08:09.860
+I'm going to go do that.
+
+01:08:10.640 --> 01:08:10.890
+[Speaker 0]: See you.