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diff --git a/2022/captions/emacsconf-2022-maint--maintaining-the-maintainers-attribution-as-an-economic-model-for-open-source--sid-kasivajhula--answers.vtt b/2022/captions/emacsconf-2022-maint--maintaining-the-maintainers-attribution-as-an-economic-model-for-open-source--sid-kasivajhula--answers.vtt new file mode 100644 index 00000000..80a659b8 --- /dev/null +++ b/2022/captions/emacsconf-2022-maint--maintaining-the-maintainers-attribution-as-an-economic-model-for-open-source--sid-kasivajhula--answers.vtt @@ -0,0 +1,806 @@ +WEBVTT + +00:00.000 --> 00:08.160 +Okay, so we seem to be back. Sorry for the little shuffling chairs around. We are now live with + +00:08.160 --> 00:16.400 +Sid. Hi, Sid. Let me contextualize a little bit for the people because we are on Gen right now + +00:16.400 --> 00:00:18.620 +and the talk was happening on Dev. + +NOTE Short recap of what the talk was about? + +00:00:18.720 --> 00:00:22.800 +Sid, can I ask you explaining what your talk was about in about + +00:22.800 --> 00:28.560 +one to two minutes? Yes, sure. The talk was called Maintaining the Maintainer's Attribution + +00:28.560 --> 00:35.200 +as a Model for Open Source Projects, and the idea is that instead of having an economic system based + +00:35.200 --> 00:40.160 +on supply and demand, which is capitalism, we have an economic system based on attribution + +00:40.160 --> 00:47.120 +and agreement, the power of our words, taking on incentives in the world, and that this can work + +00:47.120 --> 00:52.240 +for open source projects as a proving ground, and I think it can scale beyond that, and I hope it + +00:52.240 --> 00:59.920 +will scale beyond that in general. Okay, well I think you did, I'm not sure if you rehearsed + +00:59.920 --> 01:05.040 +this before, but that was such a perfect elevator speech for your talk. I am beyond amazed. + +01:06.720 --> 01:10.960 +Thank you, thank you. It's the adrenaline from being late and all the time zone shifting. + +01:12.080 --> 01:19.920 +You're not supposed to mention this, you know. You know, the things we keep telling people, + +01:19.920 --> 01:24.560 +you know, is that EmacsConf, yes, you see us rustling and being really grumpy when we don't + +01:24.560 --> 01:30.640 +get prereq, but really the live event is one part of EmacsConf, but really the better part of it is + +01:30.640 --> 01:37.600 +just having all the talks out of the head of people online, easily viewable, easily accessible + +01:37.600 --> 01:42.000 +with subtitles and stuff like this. So don't worry, it's fine if you're all right for submitting a + +01:42.000 --> 01:46.720 +prereq, it's fine if you don't show up to the Q&A, eventually we will find you, we will ask you the + +01:46.720 --> 01:51.840 +questions and all the data will be out there, so don't worry about it. Yeah, the magic of editing + +01:51.840 --> 01:57.360 +and stuff like that, you know. Yes, but we don't have it now, so we'll have to stick, you know, + +01:57.360 --> 02:02.800 +time is going to dilute, we'll have to stick with strict adherence to chronology right now. So + +02:02.800 --> 02:07.680 +starting with Sid, do you want to take the first question on the pad? Okay, let's look at them. + +NOTE What's the incentive to pay? + +02:09.280 --> 02:14.960 +So the first question is, this seems to assume that there will be money contributions commensured + +02:14.960 --> 02:20.400 +with the value of the project versus everyone freeloading because there's no incentive to pay. + +02:21.840 --> 02:26.400 +Right, so actually there is an incentive to pay, so I think what the question is referring to + +02:26.400 --> 02:32.720 +is that everyone is going to pay to other projects, or no one is going to pay to projects because + +02:32.720 --> 02:38.080 +they're free anyway and you can use them and you don't have to pay, but one of the new things + +02:38.080 --> 02:43.920 +with attribution-based economics is the idea that in open source projects we agree, we all + +02:43.920 --> 02:50.400 +collectively agree on a fair market price for a project, and this isn't a price in the sense that + +02:50.400 --> 02:55.200 +you are prohibited from using the product until you pay the price, but rather it's for an accounting + +02:55.200 --> 02:59.920 +purpose, which is that if you pay more than that price, then that means you are now an investor, + +03:00.480 --> 03:06.080 +and so you can sort of, that means you are now attributable in future revenues that come to the + +03:06.080 --> 03:11.520 +project. So if you think there's a project that's going to do some nice things, you can essentially + +03:11.520 --> 03:16.160 +buy shares in it, except these are not ownership shares, they're shares and attribution because + +03:16.160 --> 03:22.240 +you contribute value by contributing money and that's attributable, so there is an incentive + +03:22.240 --> 03:30.720 +to pay, and I think, but also beyond this, the financial model is incredibly complex, + +03:30.720 --> 03:36.160 +it is much simpler than what we have today in a capitalist world, but still finance is a very + +03:36.160 --> 03:43.040 +complex thing, and I think we're in the very very early stages of figuring out the financial model, + +03:43.040 --> 03:48.480 +and I think there's a number, there's tons of open questions, needs a lot of help from people + +03:49.520 --> 03:56.480 +to figure these out, so there's promising angles here, but I think we have a lot to work out as + +03:56.480 --> 04:03.360 +well. Should I go to the second question? Yeah, feel free to do so, you are the master, you're + +04:03.360 --> 00:04:03.914 +in Q&A. + +NOTE What do you think of projects like OpenQ? + +00:04:04.014 --> 00:04:11.040 +Okay, so the second question is, are you aware of projects like OpenQ, would that fit the + +04:11.040 --> 04:18.960 +model in your opinion? I'm actually not familiar with OpenQ, so maybe I should just move on to the + +04:18.960 --> 00:04:23.205 +next question and come back to that if we have time. Sure. + +NOTE Are you aware of SourceCred? + +00:04:23.305 --> 00:04:25.840 +The next one says, I see incredible + +04:25.840 --> 04:30.800 +amounts of overlap with the source cred system, where attribution of antecedents, graph of + +04:30.800 --> 04:36.640 +contributions, fair in hindsight, backpropagation. Oh, backpropagation, interesting. I'm sensing a + +04:36.640 --> 04:40.560 +pattern though, so you are being exposed to stuff that you do not know, which is amazing, that + +04:40.560 --> 04:45.760 +brings an opportunity to do research later on, but feel free to delay those questions until, + +04:45.760 --> 04:49.920 +perhaps, I would invite the people who ask those questions in the pad maybe to describe in a little + +04:49.920 --> 04:55.520 +blurb that Sid can read, what is the meaning of those particular platforms, and in the meantime, + +04:55.520 --> 05:00.000 +Sid, you can move on to the next questions. Sure, but I will say one thing on the subject of both + +05:00.000 --> 05:07.200 +of these things, which is that I think it's significantly underappreciated the extent to which + +05:07.200 --> 05:13.040 +value is created in the world that is both independently created of other value that happens + +05:13.040 --> 05:20.720 +to be very similar, as well as dependently related and that may be unknown, and this is something + +05:20.720 --> 05:26.720 +that I call subliminal transmission, which is like if you think about a turbulent flow, + +05:26.720 --> 05:30.800 +you know, and that's what our world is, you know, we like to have all these linear narratives and + +05:30.800 --> 05:37.840 +simple stories where I think if you take all of Wikipedia, right, even a single person's life + +05:37.840 --> 05:42.240 +has more information and richness than all of Wikipedia, so when you think about it in those + +05:42.240 --> 05:47.920 +terms, you realize just how small our stories are in expressing what really happens and what has + +05:47.920 --> 05:53.040 +really happened in the world, so from that perspective, I think there's this thing called + +05:53.040 --> 05:58.720 +subliminal transmission, which is like a turbulent flow where you have little vortices that appear + +05:58.720 --> 06:02.480 +here and then they disappear, they're gone, but then you see them again here and they're like + +06:02.480 --> 06:05.600 +bigger, but they're the same, and then you see them in a different place and they're not the + +06:05.600 --> 06:11.440 +same, they're different, yet somehow the same, and I think our world is like that, and if we have + +06:11.440 --> 06:16.960 +an economic system that's capable of not saying that, oh, it should be this other way, which it + +06:16.960 --> 06:22.480 +isn't, but in fact we see this is how it is, let's make sure that we recognize this and empower the + +06:22.480 --> 06:29.440 +right voices, given that this is how the world is, and from that perspective, I think projects like + +06:29.440 --> 06:34.320 +OpenQ and SourceCred and any number of others might exist which are creating value in the world, + +06:34.320 --> 06:39.360 +and I think that we all deserve to be empowered, you know, if we're creating similar kinds of + +06:39.360 --> 06:44.320 +value, then these are voices that have something useful to say for us moving forward, and they + +06:44.320 --> 06:50.640 +deserve to be empowered, so yeah, it doesn't have to be causally related, you know, you can have + +06:50.640 --> 06:56.080 +empowerment of all of these different projects because they work together, so yeah, very long + +06:56.080 --> 07:00.720 +-winded answer to a short question, or non-question, meta-question. + +07:00.720 --> 07:04.480 +You're fine, you can be as long-winded as you want, because honestly you have been so + +07:04.480 --> 07:10.080 +eloquent in your answer, and the little ingestors that accompany these little vertices + +07:11.440 --> 07:15.520 +do carry on with as much velocity as you want. We will be going until about + +07:15.520 --> 07:20.880 +52-53 of the current hours, which means we have about 20 more minutes. Also, we have a lot of + +07:20.880 --> 07:25.600 +questions in the pad, so I would prefer if Sid started answering the questions over the pad first, + +07:25.600 --> 07:30.400 +but we are going to be opening the pad in about six to seven minutes if you want to join and ask + +07:30.400 --> 07:35.520 +questions live to Sid, but in the meantime, Sid, sorry, I'm getting tired, it's late, in the meantime, + +07:35.520 --> 00:07:39.789 +Sid, feel free to answer more questions. Sure, okay, thank you. + +NOTE How is this different from money? + +00:07:39.889 --> 00:07:41.280 +The next question is, + +07:41.280 --> 07:46.480 +how is this different from money? Not in some abstract ownership versus attribution way. + +07:46.480 --> 07:52.000 +Open-source funding is an incentive problem, which this does not change as far as I can see. + +07:54.000 --> 08:00.960 +So, on the one hand, it does add new incentives, as we talked about. I'm not sure about the question + +08:00.960 --> 08:06.800 +of how this is different from money. This isn't proposing to replace money in any way. + +08:06.800 --> 08:13.920 +Rather, it employs money as, you know, the mechanism by which we recognize value. I think + +08:13.920 --> 08:23.440 +money is perhaps something that can be revisited and, you know, reflected upon in the future, + +08:23.440 --> 08:28.960 +but I don't think we need to do that at this stage. At this stage, I'm content to rest on the + +08:28.960 --> 08:33.520 +black box abstractions of certain things that we've already developed, like money, + +08:33.520 --> 08:37.600 +as a means of exchange and as a means of recognizing value, and I think we can use that, + +08:37.600 --> 08:43.440 +so I'm not trying to replace money. Open-source funding is an incentive program. This doesn't + +08:43.440 --> 08:47.680 +change incentives, so I think we already covered how it does add incentives in the sense that you + +08:47.680 --> 08:53.520 +can invest in open-source projects, which is a new incentive, and, you know, we also talked about + +08:53.520 --> 08:58.080 +how there are some unopened questions. I'm not sure if this is one of them. + +NOTE How would you approach a viable experiment for ABE? + +08:58.080 --> 09:07.680 +How would you approach a viable experiment? So, the prototype that we have, that we talked about + +09:07.680 --> 09:13.760 +in the talk, so there's a prototype, for those who didn't watch the talk. We have an open-source + +09:14.560 --> 09:19.520 +project, you know, it's a GitHub action, and, you know, I love to support other platforms. I'm not + +09:19.520 --> 09:24.960 +married to GitHub in any way. I don't have any special affection for GitHub. I don't have any + +09:24.960 --> 09:31.520 +special affection for GitHub. But it's a GitHub action at the moment, and what it will do is, + +09:31.520 --> 09:37.120 +when you follow all of the processes in the Constitution, which says, you know, + +09:37.120 --> 09:43.360 +open-source repository, create an issue that solicits related work reports from members of + +09:43.360 --> 09:49.600 +the public, and then create this folder structure which has a report of the contributors and this + +09:49.600 --> 09:55.440 +and that, once you do all of that, like initial logistical work, this GitHub action will process + +09:55.440 --> 10:00.720 +fresh payments that come in, which you report as single line item files, text files. Everything is + +10:00.720 --> 10:07.360 +text input and output, and then, you know, you can basically get all the accounting done for you by + +10:07.360 --> 10:14.960 +this system. So, that's what the nature of the experiment is, and I think we're starting with + +10:14.960 --> 10:19.840 +just one or two repos, because there's tremendous number of unresolved questions, and it's all going + +10:19.840 --> 10:27.360 +to be resolved through dialogue, agreement. We all decide how this thing works, and I think, + +10:27.360 --> 00:10:33.899 +you know, there's, yeah, so we'll see about how the experiment goes. + +NOTE How do you constrain the cognitive and time burdens of deciding the values of attributed contributions? + +00:10:33.999 --> 00:10:36.400 +Next question, given that + +10:36.400 --> 10:45.040 +oversight is a social process, how do you constrain the cognitive and time burdens of deciding the + +10:45.040 --> 10:54.080 +values of attributed contributions? Okay, this is a great question. So, first of all, you know, + +10:54.080 --> 11:00.080 +let's talk about long-term vision, right? Long-term vision, I don't imagine that any of us, that is, + +11:00.080 --> 11:04.160 +the actual contributors to the projects, are going to have to worry about this at all. + +11:04.160 --> 11:08.240 +We're not going to have to engage in this process of what is called dialectical inheritance + +11:08.240 --> 11:13.440 +attribution, which is, you know, it's a lot of work. There's all these standards and precedents, + +11:13.440 --> 11:18.800 +and how do you compare ideas versus works versus the materials that went into the project? It's a + +11:18.800 --> 11:24.400 +very hard problem, and I think it's something we'll be improving upon for possibly even decades. + +11:25.200 --> 11:30.000 +But at that stage, I believe there will be experts, much like today's investment bankers + +11:30.000 --> 11:36.400 +and lawyers, investment IP lawyers. These are the people who are going to specialize in it, + +11:36.400 --> 11:40.880 +going to be professionals, and that's the kind of work that they're going to do, and we can leave it + +11:40.880 --> 11:48.000 +to them. But at this stage, yes, we have to do it. We have to set these principles and standards in + +11:48.000 --> 11:55.840 +place. And how do we constrain that? We start with simple heuristics. So, initially, we want to have, + +11:55.840 --> 11:59.680 +you know, if you can imagine, this is, I don't know, this is probably a bad metaphor, but if you have, + +11:59.680 --> 12:07.040 +like, a big hole and you're trying to patch it, you know, if you put, like, little tiny things on + +12:07.040 --> 12:12.240 +it and try to focus on little tiny things, okay, what I'm trying to say is order of magnitude, + +12:12.240 --> 12:19.280 +right? Let's solve the problem at the first order of magnitude and then get the little harmonics + +12:19.280 --> 12:27.520 +and, like, solve those over time. So, basically, we want to have usable, workable heuristics that + +12:27.520 --> 12:33.760 +are low maintenance that solve the majority of the problem for our immediate purposes and then + +12:33.760 --> 12:40.960 +iterate on those over time and develop proper models, which I think we will start to do in the + +12:40.960 --> 12:47.040 +next phase. The initial phase is heuristics that are easy and low maintenance and useful. + +12:47.040 --> 12:53.600 +Right, Sid, I just want to barge in a little bit. I just want to let people know that we have opened + +12:53.600 --> 13:00.000 +up the Q&A BBB window right now, so the same spiel as usual. If you want to join Sid and ask questions + +13:00.000 --> 13:04.160 +directly, we still have some questions in the pad. Don't worry, Sid will get to them first. + +13:04.160 --> 13:09.040 +But if you want to join and have a discussion with Sid, we have until about, we've got about + +13:09.040 --> 13:14.240 +20, 18 minutes left of discussion there. So, please do not hesitate. This is a very interesting talk. + +13:14.240 --> 13:19.840 +We have a very interesting speaker as well. So, use this opportunity, please. In the meantime, + +13:19.840 --> 13:24.720 +Sid, you can answer more questions. Sure. Should we take one from the field? + +13:25.360 --> 13:28.080 +I guess while people are thinking about it, I'll take one more question, maybe. + +NOTE How are the attribution amounts calculated? + +13:29.360 --> 13:37.440 +Okay. So, the next question is, how are the attribution amounts calculated? + +13:37.440 --> 13:42.960 +Okay, how are the attribution amounts calculated? This is going to be done through standards. + +13:42.960 --> 13:49.040 +So, there is a, there's a repo, you know, if you go to the github.org account, dream-org, + +13:49.040 --> 13:57.760 +d-r-y-m-dash-org-slash-foundation. This contains the founding documents of how we will manage this + +13:57.760 --> 14:04.080 +process. And it can, it is, it will contain more standards. It has a few at the moment, very high + +14:04.080 --> 14:10.240 +level ones, but we will keep adding more standards there that are general enough to be universally + +14:10.240 --> 14:16.880 +applicable, and that can be specialized to the individual projects. And the attribution is going + +14:16.880 --> 14:22.400 +to be decided by these standards, by the members of the public, members of the community. + +14:22.400 --> 14:28.240 +Yeah. And they calculate, they must add up to 100%. So, it's, you know, and that's okay, actually, + +14:28.240 --> 14:36.080 +I should say. One of the mechanisms by which attribution will be done initially is this heuristic + +14:36.080 --> 14:45.040 +procedure called the Analyze, Appraise, Anonymize Attribute Loop. What that means is we first + +14:45.040 --> 14:49.600 +analyze the project, decompose it into its components, and we can do any number of such + +14:49.600 --> 14:53.280 +analyses, any number of people can do these analyses, and there can be a decision procedure + +14:53.280 --> 14:58.320 +for combining them. But that, I digress. We'll keep it simple first. We analyze the project into its + +14:58.320 --> 15:05.520 +components, then we agree on the proportion of value contributed by each of those components, + +15:05.520 --> 15:10.480 +then we analyze the activities done by the contributors, and then we analyze the + +15:10.480 --> 15:15.120 +activities done by the contributors and anonymize them. And we say, this was done, this was done, + +15:15.120 --> 15:20.240 +this was done, this was done. This is how much proportion of value these activities contribute + +15:20.240 --> 15:24.720 +to each of these components. And then once you have this chart, this graph of all of these + +15:24.720 --> 15:32.880 +connections and proportions of value, then you anonymize and you aggregate the sum of proportions + +15:32.880 --> 15:38.480 +of value by contributor. And contributor is not necessarily a person, a contributor is a + +15:38.480 --> 15:45.040 +project, it can be an antecedent, it doesn't have to be a direct contributor to the project, + +15:45.040 --> 15:50.160 +it doesn't have to be someone who wrote code, it can be a person who created a bug report, + +15:50.160 --> 15:57.200 +or a person who had a good idea for the design. And anyway, so once you do this, you aggregate + +15:57.200 --> 16:02.800 +by contributor, you have a set of proportions that total up to one, or a set of percentages + +16:02.800 --> 16:09.920 +that total up to 100, that dictate how the revenues that come into the project are to + +16:09.920 --> 16:21.760 +be divided amongst all of these antecedents and contributors. Let's see, what's the next question? + +16:22.800 --> 16:26.240 +Okay, the next question is being written down as we speak. + +16:26.240 --> 00:16:29.720 +It's fine, we can wait a little bit. + +NOTE Synchronicity with Bastien's talk last year + +00:16:29.820 --> 00:16:33.200 +In the meantime, I'll just mention, + +16:35.360 --> 16:41.360 +so actually, when we keep track of presentation for Emacs, we do have slugs for them. And this + +16:41.360 --> 16:47.440 +year, the slug for your talk, Sid, was made. And it was not an anodyne choice, because last year, + +16:47.440 --> 16:53.360 +we also had another talk by a maintainer, or well, the org maintainer, or one of the org maintainers, + +16:53.360 --> 16:59.520 +Bastien Guerri. And it feels like Bastien's talk was mostly geared towards sustaining + +16:59.520 --> 17:05.360 +maintenance, and your is more about maintaining the software effort in general. And it feels like + +17:05.360 --> 17:13.280 +the two talks are related, but yours seems to be more, I wouldn't say visionary, I think they are + +17:13.280 --> 17:17.120 +very complimentary in nature. I'm not sure, have you been able to watch Bastien's talk from last + +17:17.120 --> 17:22.080 +year? I have not, but that sounds very interesting. I'll definitely check it out after this. + +17:22.080 --> 17:27.360 +Right. And I will now stop my blabbering, and you can answer the last question. + +NOTE What are your assumptions about human nature? + +17:28.960 --> 17:32.640 +The last question is, what are your assumptions about human nature, + +17:33.280 --> 17:42.000 +vis-a-vis self-interest versus altruism? The funny thing is, I don't actually feel like + +17:42.000 --> 17:50.000 +we need to opine on that, from the perspective of an economic system. I mean, yes, we have to + +17:50.000 --> 17:55.360 +recognize that, you know, some people will say, oh, human nature is fundamentally selfish, or, + +17:55.360 --> 18:00.320 +you know, we have to be good, and we have to help each other. And I think both of these perspectives + +18:00.320 --> 18:07.360 +are not necessarily, you know, I don't know if they're necessarily the right way to think about + +18:07.360 --> 18:13.040 +it, because you have the idea about, well, capitalism assumes people are fundamentally + +18:13.040 --> 18:17.840 +selfish, or they have to act that way in order to be rational in the system. That's one side of it. + +18:17.840 --> 18:22.800 +The other side of it is this notion of altruism, right, that somehow you have to help others, + +18:22.800 --> 18:28.320 +and that, you know, there's like a charitable component, and you have all these people who + +18:28.960 --> 18:33.520 +make billions and billions of dollars, and then, you know, start giving that away. Which, + +18:33.520 --> 18:36.880 +you know, if you're going to make billions and billions of dollars, and you give it away, + +18:36.880 --> 18:41.600 +and like help the world, that's better than not giving it away and not helping the world. + +18:41.600 --> 18:46.560 +On the other hand, the fact that you got those billions and billions of dollars in a capitalist + +18:46.560 --> 18:54.160 +economic system, which fundamentally skews the value recognition in ways that, you know, is very, + +18:54.160 --> 18:59.840 +very subversive and very, very minimizing of the source, the true sources of value, + +18:59.840 --> 19:06.160 +means that you've led yourself to go down this path and essentially unwittingly and inevitably + +19:06.160 --> 19:09.920 +ended up causing a lot of problems, too. Like, it's not necessarily the case that if you're + +19:09.920 --> 19:14.560 +wealthy in a capitalist economy, that you've created a lot of value, because yes, you have, + +19:14.560 --> 19:19.040 +but at the same time, the net value is not guaranteed to be above zero, really, + +19:20.320 --> 19:27.040 +because capitalism can't express all forms of value. So I don't think thinking about self-interest + +19:27.040 --> 19:35.680 +versus altruism is the right way to think about things from the perspective of economic systems. + +19:35.680 --> 19:42.480 +In an economic system where the incentives are so set up that the maximum value to all + +19:42.480 --> 19:47.840 +is recognized the most, then it's inevitable that people want to do that. And it doesn't mean that + +19:47.840 --> 19:51.280 +you're a naturalistic person or a selfish person. You're just going to do it because there are + +19:51.280 --> 20:00.240 +incentives that are set up that way that everybody agreed on. And I think in such a system, your own + +20:00.240 --> 20:07.040 +sort of spiritual inclinations towards this are secondary. Not secondary. I don't want to say + +20:07.040 --> 20:14.800 +secondary. I want to say that they are up to you. And your actions in the world will be rewarded to + +20:14.800 --> 20:20.320 +the extent that you help others. The more you give, the more you will be empowered. So from + +20:20.320 --> 20:25.280 +that perspective, you could say that the system rewards altruism. But at the same time, if you're + +20:25.280 --> 20:32.320 +just giving and you're not in a position where... I mean, the system ensures that if you give, + +20:32.320 --> 20:36.560 +you're also taken care of, so that you don't have to choose between altruism and selfishness. + +20:36.560 --> 20:44.160 +Altruism is empowering yourself. So that's kind of the beauty of this system, really. That's the + +20:44.160 --> 20:50.240 +beauty of an attribution-based system is that you become more empowered by giving more. But we don't + +20:50.240 --> 20:54.880 +have to get into the spirituality stuff of it, really. It's beside the point as far as the + +20:54.880 --> 21:02.400 +mechanisms of the economic system go. All right. I think that was the last question, unless I'm + +21:02.400 --> 21:09.920 +mistaken. That's the last one I see. Yes. Well, you did a fine job answering, however, many + +21:09.920 --> 21:15.920 +questions before. Again, very lengthy, as you said, but very eloquent, as I will say to you. + +NOTE What is the URL of the project? + +21:17.680 --> 21:22.080 +There is one question that appeared on ISE, which was the URL of the project. You mentioned + +21:22.080 --> 21:27.520 +dream.org. Would you be able to maybe type it out in the chat so that people can + +21:27.520 --> 21:32.640 +check it, and I'll place it on ISE for the person that was asking? Or on BBB, it's fine, too. + +21:34.000 --> 21:41.520 +It's actually dream-org. Oh, that's why I did dream.org, which was the problem. + +21:43.840 --> 00:21:44.902 +It's the GitHub repo. + +NOTE Check out the prototype, "Old Abe" + +00:21:45.002 --> 00:21:47.280 +And actually, sorry, you should also check out + +21:48.480 --> 21:55.840 +dream-org.old-abe. That is the billing prototype, which is the GitHub action, + +21:55.840 --> 22:01.520 +which you can add to your repo. And it's got all the startup instructions for how you can + +22:01.520 --> 22:08.720 +set up attribution-based economics. So I'll let you type it out. github.com slash dream + +22:10.480 --> 22:18.080 +dash org slash old-abe. + +22:18.080 --> 22:25.280 +It's good for you for remembering it. I will place this in BBB right now. Sorry, + +22:25.280 --> 00:22:29.420 +not in BBB, in the pad so that people can click on it. + +NOTE Closing Remarks + +00:22:29.520 --> 00:22:32.640 +Sid, is there anything else you'd like to + +22:32.640 --> 22:41.200 +say? We are about at the end of the Q&A right now. I guess attribution-based economics is open for + +22:41.200 --> 22:50.560 +business, as it were. So if you can go to some of the repos at the dream-org GitHub org account, + +22:51.280 --> 22:56.240 +many of those repos are starting attribution-based economics. And simx.el in particular is one for + +22:56.240 --> 23:00.560 +the Emacs community. So I encourage you guys. And of course, old-abe, that's another one that + +23:00.560 --> 23:04.560 +started. And that's the only one that's actually ready to accept payments and distribute payments, + +23:04.560 --> 23:09.120 +because we have done the attributions already, given that it was written in the last few days. + +23:09.120 --> 23:16.480 +But the other ones, we might start payments out, I think, on January 1. So between now and January + +23:16.480 --> 23:24.480 +1, we'll start doing the attribution process and deciding the antecedents, who's owed what, + +23:24.480 --> 23:28.080 +what proportion of value came from whom, and all that stuff between now and then. And then we're + +23:28.080 --> 23:36.880 +going to start paying out from the repositories January 1 is the plan. If you can contribute to + +23:36.880 --> 23:41.280 +these projects, then that would help prove the model out, and that would create incentives for + +23:41.280 --> 23:45.920 +people to join. So I encourage you to do so. Thank you. Well, thank you. You've definitely + +23:45.920 --> 23:50.320 +made a very nice case for it, and people can make their own minds now by checking the link. + +NOTE A flicker of light and following your curiosity + +23:50.320 --> 23:55.280 +We really encourage you to follow up on a lot of the talks. It's one thing. One thing that we always + +23:55.280 --> 24:02.080 +say with Sasha to the people, be they speakers, be they user group members, is that Emacs can't, + +24:02.080 --> 24:08.000 +and user groups, any kind of community activity for Emacs is about curiosity. And it's one thing + +24:08.000 --> 24:14.960 +to ignite the flame of curiosity in some peoples. It's actually much better to actually follow the + +24:14.960 --> 24:19.120 +fuse and see where it leads you. Because, you know, it's a little fuse, a little tiny flame, + +24:19.120 --> 24:24.000 +a flicker of a flame, a flicker of light going in a direction that might explode so much curiosity + +24:24.000 --> 24:32.960 +later down the line. I was talking earlier with Blaine about, you know, oh, last year he was + +24:32.960 --> 24:39.280 +presenting, it had only been six, it had only been, I can't speak English, it's 10.45 a.m. in + +24:39.280 --> 24:46.000 +my time zone. I'm starting to tire. But he had only started using Emacs six months prior to + +24:46.000 --> 24:51.040 +presenting, and he was already so proficient in it. And it feels like, it's kind of like in Lost, + +24:51.040 --> 24:55.280 +you know, when you have the rope and you pull on the rope and it brings you so far away. Well, + +24:55.280 --> 25:01.200 +do follow this curiosity, be it for what Sid has presented to you today, but for any of the topics + +25:01.200 --> 25:04.960 +that we've presented to you today. So thank you so much, Sid, for all your time, all your + +25:04.960 --> 25:09.280 +presentation, and your answers. Thank you so much, Leo. Appreciate it. Thanks for having me. |