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diff --git a/2022/captions/emacsconf-2022-mail--revisiting-the-anatomy-of-emacs-mail-user-agents--mohsen-banan--answers.vtt b/2022/captions/emacsconf-2022-mail--revisiting-the-anatomy-of-emacs-mail-user-agents--mohsen-banan--answers.vtt new file mode 100644 index 00000000..2c0a2ac5 --- /dev/null +++ b/2022/captions/emacsconf-2022-mail--revisiting-the-anatomy-of-emacs-mail-user-agents--mohsen-banan--answers.vtt @@ -0,0 +1,1046 @@ +WEBVTT + +00:00.000 --> 00:04.000 +Thank you, Mohsen, very much for the great talk. + +00:04.000 --> 00:08.000 +People, if you have questions, please put them on the pad, + +00:08.000 --> 00:12.000 +or IRC, but preferably the pad, and then we'll also open this room + +00:12.000 --> 00:16.000 +in a minute or two so that if anyone who wants to join here and ask the questions + +00:16.000 --> 00:19.000 +directly to Mohsen, they could do that as well. + +00:19.000 --> 00:22.000 +Dear Mohsen, please take it away. + +00:22.000 --> 00:25.000 +Hello, greetings. + +00:25.000 --> 00:29.000 +Yeah, I don't see any questions yet, + +00:29.000 --> 00:35.000 +so let me add a few additional notes + +00:35.000 --> 00:39.000 +to what was in the presentation. + +00:39.000 --> 00:43.000 +In there, I make several points. + +00:43.000 --> 00:49.000 +Some of them are tactical, some are more strategic. + +00:49.000 --> 00:56.000 +Let me delve into the strategic message a bit. + +00:56.000 --> 01:02.000 +On the messaging capabilities of Emacs + +01:02.000 --> 01:08.000 +and the broader office environment capabilities of Emacs, + +01:08.000 --> 01:14.000 +we have a huge, incredibly powerful asset, + +01:14.000 --> 01:18.000 +but the amount of complexity + +01:18.000 --> 01:27.000 +and the surrounding configuration capabilities + +01:27.000 --> 01:32.000 +and hurdles and difficulties that are involved + +01:32.000 --> 01:41.000 +into making a really powerful environment for ourselves, + +01:41.000 --> 01:44.000 +we have a big obstacle, + +01:44.000 --> 01:49.000 +and that obstacle is that of integration. + +01:49.000 --> 01:58.000 +Over the past 40 years, the general model has been that of producing components + +01:58.000 --> 02:03.000 +where we do great stuff. + +02:03.000 --> 02:13.000 +We put various email MTAs and support them through Emacs. + +02:13.000 --> 02:21.000 +Additionally, we say that we want Emacs to be used on all platforms. + +02:21.000 --> 02:25.000 +If you're on Windows, there is Emacs support for it. + +02:25.000 --> 02:30.000 +If there is Mac OS, there is support for that. + +02:30.000 --> 02:35.000 +And of course, all of the GNU Linux stuff, + +02:35.000 --> 02:39.000 +capabilities and platforms. + +02:39.000 --> 02:46.000 +So all of this results into tremendous amounts of energy + +02:46.000 --> 02:54.000 +to go both on the developer side and on the user side to support everything. + +02:54.000 --> 02:59.000 +And that's what we have been doing over the past 40 years. + +02:59.000 --> 03:07.000 +What I am saying is that perhaps we should revisit this approach + +03:07.000 --> 03:16.000 +and consider moving towards creating a complete + +03:16.000 --> 03:23.000 +Libre Halal free software digital ecosystem for ourselves + +03:23.000 --> 03:28.000 +and consider Emacs as the usage environment + +03:28.000 --> 03:33.000 +of that totality of the digital ecosystem. + +03:33.000 --> 03:42.000 +This will solve many problems if we were to buy into such an approach. + +03:42.000 --> 03:47.000 +If we were to say that as the platform de facto + +03:47.000 --> 03:54.000 +and because of everything that is happening, + +03:54.000 --> 03:57.000 +Debian is a reasonable good choice. + +03:57.000 --> 04:06.000 +And then we would tie in all Emacs capabilities + +04:06.000 --> 04:13.000 +primarily and firstly to our own platform + +04:13.000 --> 04:17.000 +and start building on it. + +04:17.000 --> 04:28.000 +So let's take the situation with email in such a scenario. + +04:28.000 --> 04:34.000 +The main obstacles that we have right now is that + +04:34.000 --> 04:41.000 +GNU comes out with support for pretty much everything. + +04:41.000 --> 04:50.000 +But as the user, someone trying to buy into doing email on Emacs, + +04:50.000 --> 04:55.000 +which of these facilities, which of these features + +04:55.000 --> 04:58.000 +would be the right way to go? + +04:58.000 --> 05:07.000 +So what I am saying, having chosen our platform as Debian, + +05:07.000 --> 05:14.000 +what if we were to say that we would buy into something like Q-mail + +05:14.000 --> 05:24.000 +as the outgoing message model and just fully bring it in + +05:24.000 --> 05:30.000 +and consider it as the only and the default MTA + +05:30.000 --> 05:33.000 +for everything that we do? + +05:33.000 --> 05:39.000 +Suddenly a whole lot of complexity goes away. + +05:39.000 --> 05:45.000 +And similarly for bringing in email, + +05:45.000 --> 05:50.000 +what if we were to say that we have bought into offline IMAP + +05:50.000 --> 05:55.000 +and then the next really interesting piece is + +05:55.000 --> 05:59.000 +what should be our mailboxes? + +05:59.000 --> 06:08.000 +This notion that today de facto Gmail is the universal place + +06:08.000 --> 06:11.000 +where you get your mailboxes. + +06:11.000 --> 06:15.000 +And very easily we can, not very easily, + +06:15.000 --> 06:20.000 +but we certainly can support Gmail. + +06:20.000 --> 06:27.000 +But what if we were to get in the business of actually providing + +06:27.000 --> 06:32.000 +mailboxes for everyone and combine that with the platform + +06:32.000 --> 06:35.000 +and the main user agent? + +06:35.000 --> 06:43.000 +So that's really the strategic message that I want to, + +06:43.000 --> 06:48.000 +that I'm sending. + +06:48.000 --> 06:49.000 +Excellent, thank you. + +06:49.000 --> 06:52.000 +And I think in the meantime we have four questions + +06:52.000 --> 06:54.000 +on the panel already. + +06:54.000 --> 07:00.000 +Okay, I don't see them here. + +07:00.000 --> 07:03.000 +Oh, are you looking in the public chat here on the big blue button? + +07:03.000 --> 07:04.000 +Yes. + +07:04.000 --> 07:06.000 +Okay, let me put a link. + +07:06.000 --> 07:10.000 +So there's a separate pad where people are posting their questions. + +07:10.000 --> 07:13.000 +Okay, now I am seeing. + +07:13.000 --> 07:17.000 +Yeah, if it might be easier I could probably copy the questions over here. + +07:17.000 --> 07:20.000 +No, no, I am actually seeing them. + +07:20.000 --> 07:21.000 +Okay. + +07:21.000 --> 07:25.000 +Perfectly, perfectly okay. + +07:25.000 --> 07:31.000 +So the first question is something I have liked about Not Much + +07:31.000 --> 07:35.000 +is using Maildear makes searching fast + +07:35.000 --> 07:40.000 +and the knowledge that you have all your email period. + +07:40.000 --> 07:45.000 +Why GNU's over Not Much? + +07:45.000 --> 07:53.000 +As a side note, you have also Much Think for Not Much client + +07:53.000 --> 07:59.000 +and Jmap for more exotic normal clients. + +07:59.000 --> 08:04.000 +So I think there are two things going on here. + +08:04.000 --> 08:07.000 +Not Much is more than one thing. + +08:07.000 --> 08:13.000 +Not Much is a search, a mail search engine + +08:13.000 --> 08:20.000 +and also Not Much is a MUA. + +08:20.000 --> 08:30.000 +So in terms of choosing, certainly for search, for mail search capabilities, + +08:30.000 --> 08:33.000 +we should go with Not Much + +08:33.000 --> 08:40.000 +and there is GNU's search capabilities for Not Much in there. + +08:40.000 --> 08:48.000 +So what I am suggesting is that we stick to GNU's as an MUA, + +08:48.000 --> 08:52.000 +but the search capabilities that you are talking about + +08:52.000 --> 08:59.000 +or that the question mentions are certainly available. + +08:59.000 --> 09:05.000 +A second question is, so the idea is more about Emacs + +09:05.000 --> 09:10.000 +as a holistic computing experience with other packages and services + +09:10.000 --> 09:14.000 +rather than about email specifically + +09:14.000 --> 09:19.000 +as an alternative to something like Microsoft Office Suite. + +09:19.000 --> 09:23.000 +Yes, this is right on the point. + +09:23.000 --> 09:28.000 +What I am saying is that email by itself + +09:28.000 --> 09:33.000 +is not really all that meaningful or interesting + +09:33.000 --> 09:38.000 +and everywhere that you look in the proprietary model, + +09:38.000 --> 09:43.000 +you would see that the likes of Google and the likes of Microsoft + +09:43.000 --> 09:49.000 +do not view email as standalone capabilities. + +09:49.000 --> 09:52.000 +They see it as integrated with address book. + +09:52.000 --> 09:55.000 +They see it as integrated with calendar. + +09:55.000 --> 09:59.000 +They see it integrated with search. + +09:59.000 --> 10:06.000 +They see it as integrated with your to-do list and time management. + +10:06.000 --> 10:09.000 +So you are very right. + +10:09.000 --> 10:13.000 +The question is right on point. + +10:13.000 --> 10:18.000 +Email by itself is not significant + +10:18.000 --> 10:26.000 +and the reason why Emacs is the right place to do email + +10:26.000 --> 10:29.000 +is because Emacs is the kitchen sink. + +10:29.000 --> 10:35.000 +It does absolutely everything and that is what you want. + +10:35.000 --> 10:38.000 +The third question is, + +10:38.000 --> 10:43.000 +early on you express misgivings about the Western copyright regime + +10:43.000 --> 10:46.000 +but you are using a GPL license. + +10:46.000 --> 10:49.000 +Is that a conflict? + +10:49.000 --> 10:52.000 +Great work by the way. + +10:52.000 --> 10:55.000 +No, I don't think it is a conflict. + +10:55.000 --> 11:04.000 +My position is that the Western intellectual property right regime + +11:04.000 --> 11:08.000 +is a colossal ownership mistake. + +11:08.000 --> 11:15.000 +Having said that, and I do call for its abolishment, + +11:15.000 --> 11:21.000 +having said that, it is unrealistic to assume or recognize + +11:21.000 --> 11:26.000 +that just because I say it and just because I believe it, + +11:26.000 --> 11:34.000 +in fact it will be abolished or that a significant change would happen, + +11:34.000 --> 11:38.000 +particularly in the Western world. + +11:38.000 --> 11:44.000 +So in the Western context, what can we do? + +11:44.000 --> 11:46.000 +What should we do? + +11:46.000 --> 11:52.000 +What I am saying there is that particularly in the context of services, + +11:52.000 --> 12:00.000 +all licenses should be the strictest ones possible + +12:00.000 --> 12:07.000 +and the one that is codified is the Afero GPL license. + +12:07.000 --> 12:12.000 +So I have subjected all my work to the Afero GPL license. + +12:12.000 --> 12:27.000 +I know of GNU, how do you think about using it for packaging, + +12:27.000 --> 12:31.000 +configuring Emacs, your various packages, + +12:31.000 --> 12:37.000 +else you might look it up or NixOS. + +12:37.000 --> 12:46.000 +So the idea here is that when we go back to this full integration + +12:46.000 --> 12:49.000 +in the context of a digital ecosystem, + +12:49.000 --> 12:59.000 +a major challenge is that of bringing in all the necessary packages + +12:59.000 --> 13:01.000 +from different sources. + +13:01.000 --> 13:08.000 +So for example, in the context of male user agents, + +13:08.000 --> 13:13.000 +to put things together you need a set of apt packages + +13:13.000 --> 13:17.000 +coming from the DBN world. + +13:17.000 --> 13:25.000 +You need a set of pypi packages coming from the Python world + +13:25.000 --> 13:32.000 +and you need a set of list packages coming from Elisp archives. + +13:32.000 --> 13:38.000 +And likely you need a whole lot of others. + +13:38.000 --> 13:47.000 +You need possibly Node.js stuff and you also possibly need Ruby stuff. + +13:47.000 --> 13:54.000 +And this integration is going to be complex. + +13:54.000 --> 14:01.000 +The approach that I have taken is that of going best of breed + +14:01.000 --> 14:06.000 +in the context of each of the domains. + +14:06.000 --> 14:13.000 +So in Python, while there may be other packaging models, + +14:13.000 --> 14:16.000 +we go with pypi. + +14:16.000 --> 14:19.000 +On the platform, it's clear that it's apt. + +14:19.000 --> 14:25.000 +On the Linux, over the past five years, we have solved mostly + +14:25.000 --> 14:29.000 +that archiving machinery. + +14:29.000 --> 14:39.000 +If the question is, and I'm not familiar with the specifics + +14:39.000 --> 14:44.000 +of what was mentioned in terms of a unified packaging model, + +14:44.000 --> 14:54.000 +but if the question is that of a unified packaging integration model, + +14:54.000 --> 14:58.000 +I'd love to do it when it's mature and ready. + +14:58.000 --> 15:05.000 +At this point, I am going the route of best of breed selections + +15:05.000 --> 15:09.000 +within each domain. + +15:09.000 --> 15:15.000 +And if I chime in briefly, Mohsen, I think there was a typo in the question. + +15:15.000 --> 15:19.000 +They are asking about GNU Geeks or mentioning GNU Geeks + +15:19.000 --> 15:21.000 +and also potentially NixOS. + +15:21.000 --> 15:24.000 +And I think these two also very much go with your idea + +15:24.000 --> 15:28.000 +of tying everything together, these different package management systems. + +15:28.000 --> 15:33.000 +So GNU Geeks is a GNU Linux distribution like Debian is, + +15:33.000 --> 15:37.000 +but it's written in GNU Guile Lisp or Guile Scheme. + +15:37.000 --> 15:41.000 +And it's a very interesting concept where all of the packaging code + +15:41.000 --> 15:46.000 +and everything is done in GNU Guile Scheme and ties everything together + +15:46.000 --> 15:48.000 +and integrates great with Emacs. + +15:48.000 --> 15:51.000 +So that might be something worth checking out later on. + +15:51.000 --> 15:52.000 +Right. + +15:52.000 --> 16:01.000 +I had taken a very cursory look at that, and I'll keep my eyes open on it. + +16:01.000 --> 16:07.000 +I think in due course, maybe that's the way to go. + +16:07.000 --> 16:13.000 +There's one more question coming in. + +16:13.000 --> 16:21.000 +I let the person who is asking the question to complete it. + +16:21.000 --> 16:22.000 +Okay. + +16:22.000 --> 16:26.000 +Yeah, in the meantime, I'll also mention that I think we have about + +16:26.000 --> 16:32.000 +four more minutes of on-stream live Q&A time, at which point after that, + +16:32.000 --> 16:33.000 +the stream will move on. + +16:33.000 --> 16:38.000 +But you Mohsen and, of course, people watching are welcome to come here, + +16:38.000 --> 16:41.000 +join this Big Blue Button Room directly and ask the questions here + +16:41.000 --> 16:42.000 +or on the pad. + +16:42.000 --> 16:43.000 +Great. + +16:43.000 --> 16:44.000 +Great. + +16:44.000 --> 16:47.000 +So let me read the question. + +16:47.000 --> 16:54.000 +Is this being split up in a heavily configured server for email hosting + +16:54.000 --> 17:00.000 +and the thin client package for you locally client to integrate with your + +17:00.000 --> 17:02.000 +Emacs package? + +17:02.000 --> 17:11.000 +Maybe with a client thin Docker container for other packages, + +17:11.000 --> 17:15.000 +like not much locally? + +17:15.000 --> 17:23.000 +Actually, that is not really exactly what I am speaking of. + +17:23.000 --> 17:32.000 +The concept of a thin client is difficult to characterize. + +17:32.000 --> 17:41.000 +So if you have Emacs and everything else that you want to use as a usage + +17:41.000 --> 17:49.000 +environment along with your email system, if we want to call that a thin + +17:49.000 --> 17:59.000 +client, certainly that is what I call the usage environment. + +17:59.000 --> 18:10.000 +On the services side, I am not speaking of just one. + +18:10.000 --> 18:15.000 +I am speaking of support for multiple, of course, obviously, + +18:15.000 --> 18:22.000 +but having one that in my own case, for example, by name.net, + +18:22.000 --> 18:27.000 +is the primary support. + +18:27.000 --> 18:36.000 +And in terms of packaging that as a thin client instead of inside of a + +18:36.000 --> 18:45.000 +Docker, that is certainly possible, but it is not, I don't consider it as + +18:45.000 --> 18:47.000 +the only way to go. + +18:47.000 --> 18:56.000 +You can do your packaging any way you want and, well, you can do your + +18:56.000 --> 19:04.000 +packaging and then deliver it however you want. + +19:04.000 --> 19:11.000 +On these questions, if I was not on the point in understanding the + +19:11.000 --> 19:16.000 +questions and answering them correctly, if there are any follow-ups, + +19:16.000 --> 19:42.000 +I would be happy to take them. + +19:42.000 --> 19:51.000 +Yeah, if there are no other questions, I can perhaps bring up the + +19:51.000 --> 20:04.000 +presentation and maybe make a few additional points. + +20:04.000 --> 20:23.000 +So, I think one key slide in here is this one, where what I am saying + +20:23.000 --> 20:32.000 +is that we have been very good at producing components and that we + +20:32.000 --> 20:42.000 +really need to get into systems development or environments + +20:42.000 --> 20:46.000 +development as opposed to components development. + +20:46.000 --> 20:55.000 +And to raise that a bit more so that we can move towards having + +20:55.000 --> 21:01.000 +something that we can call a non-procreatory digital ecosystem, + +21:01.000 --> 21:10.000 +I think we need to work towards having frameworks for services. + +21:10.000 --> 21:17.000 +And while we have defined free software or what I call Libre + +21:17.000 --> 21:25.000 +Halal software, we don't have precise definitions for Libre services, + +21:25.000 --> 21:27.000 +free services. + +21:27.000 --> 21:32.000 +Free services is going to be a very bad name, because we want it to + +21:32.000 --> 21:34.000 +be commercial. + +21:34.000 --> 21:39.000 +We want people to pay for it as they use it. + +21:39.000 --> 21:45.000 +And so the natural name would be something like Libre services. + +21:45.000 --> 21:52.000 +And in that context, if you go to Libre services.org, you will see + +21:52.000 --> 22:00.000 +my definition of what that would mean, what non-proprietary + +22:00.000 --> 22:05.000 +codification of services would mean. + +22:05.000 --> 22:20.000 +Another slide perhaps to take a look at is this one, where I am + +22:20.000 --> 22:35.000 +making the case for not considering Emacs by itself as core of + +22:35.000 --> 22:43.000 +anything, but viewing and cultivating and introducing this + +22:43.000 --> 22:48.000 +concept of common agent and building on it. + +22:48.000 --> 22:58.000 +Let me go see if there are any other questions. + +22:58.000 --> 23:08.000 +Yeah, I didn't see any more. + +23:08.000 --> 23:12.000 +May I drop in and ask a question directly? + +23:12.000 --> 23:14.000 +Of course. + +23:14.000 --> 23:21.000 +Okay, so I have a question regarding combining GNU and NotMuch. + +23:21.000 --> 23:23.000 +Yes. + +23:23.000 --> 23:30.000 +So do you combine tagging facilities of NotMuch into GNU as well? + +23:30.000 --> 23:32.000 +Sorry, can you repeat that? + +23:32.000 --> 23:37.000 +Do you also integrate tagging facilities of NotMuch into GNU? + +23:37.000 --> 23:41.000 +Tagging? I have not done that. + +23:41.000 --> 23:46.000 +Okay, because I was looking into combining GNU and NotMuch at some point, + +23:46.000 --> 23:53.000 +but what stopped me from continuing is that NotMuch is mostly about tags, + +23:53.000 --> 24:00.000 +and then GNU has a search option for NotMuch, using NotMuch. + +24:00.000 --> 24:05.000 +But how do you add tags from GNU? + +24:05.000 --> 24:11.000 +Right, in terms of continuous use, it's only recently that I'm doing that, + +24:11.000 --> 24:16.000 +and I don't think it means that it is not doable. + +24:16.000 --> 24:22.000 +It's just that in my own case, I haven't done it. + +24:22.000 --> 24:24.000 +Yeah, it's certainly doable. + +24:24.000 --> 24:30.000 +You present this unified system that brings everything together. + +24:30.000 --> 24:33.000 +So I was wondering if it's already implemented. + +24:33.000 --> 24:44.000 +Yeah, I must say all that I do is I want to say that that is the direction that I want to go. + +24:44.000 --> 24:45.000 +Okay. + +24:45.000 --> 24:47.000 +We have a long way to go. + +24:47.000 --> 24:58.000 +It's mostly a question of, and that is not the general direction and formalization that has been happening. + +24:58.000 --> 25:06.000 +So more or less, a lot of what I mentioned in there is not fully baked. + +25:06.000 --> 25:17.000 +Okay, thanks. + +25:17.000 --> 25:20.000 +I think we also have a question here in chat, Mohsen. + +25:20.000 --> 25:22.000 +I wasn't sure if you already saw or answered it or not. + +25:22.000 --> 25:24.000 +Sorry. + +25:24.000 --> 25:28.000 +No, let me, is it on the chat? + +25:28.000 --> 25:30.000 +Yes, public chat here on big blue button. + +25:30.000 --> 25:31.000 +Question by Thuna. + +25:31.000 --> 25:34.000 +Oh, public chat on the big blue button. + +25:34.000 --> 25:38.000 +Yeah. + +25:38.000 --> 25:41.000 +Can you expand on definition of Libre Halal? + +25:41.000 --> 25:42.000 +I'm a bit lost. + +25:42.000 --> 25:44.000 +Yes. + +25:44.000 --> 25:46.000 +Yes, yes, yes, yes. + +25:46.000 --> 26:05.000 +So, you see, we have labels of free software that are well established, and we have definitions of open source that are well established. + +26:05.000 --> 26:20.000 +And both of these are in the Western context and from the perspective of Western folks. + +26:20.000 --> 26:29.000 +What I am saying is that neither free software nor open source are the right labels. + +26:29.000 --> 26:37.000 +What we are looking for is actually ethical software, not free software. + +26:37.000 --> 26:49.000 +Freedom is something that is wonderful and great, but it may not be the right thing to be free. + +26:49.000 --> 27:01.000 +What I am saying here is that a manner of existence of software is the key concept. + +27:01.000 --> 27:06.000 +Allow me to share the screen. + +27:06.000 --> 27:09.000 +Just one moment. + +27:09.000 --> 27:18.000 +And maybe point you to a place where I could answer it in depth. + +27:18.000 --> 27:27.000 +It is certainly not a topic that I could do justice to in just a moment. + +27:27.000 --> 27:51.000 +So, if you were to look for nature of polyexistentials and Googling that would take you there, there is a 250-page document there that says why I believe the Western intellectual property rights is wrong. + +27:51.000 --> 28:10.000 +And it goes through and says, well, if polyexistentials are not to be governed by the intellectual property rights regime, then what is the right manner of governing them? + +28:10.000 --> 28:21.000 +So, what is the right manner of existence of software? And what label should we use for that? + +28:21.000 --> 28:41.000 +And in here, there is a whole section that about 10 pages or so that describes what Halal means and why the Libre Halal label is the right label. + +28:41.000 --> 29:01.000 +So, let me perhaps point you to that section. + +29:01.000 --> 29:11.000 +Yeah, this is on the Cure section. + +29:11.000 --> 29:32.000 +I think if you were to go to chapter 12, that would be a good place. + +29:32.000 --> 29:37.000 +Do you happen to have the link to this page handy, Mohsan? + +29:37.000 --> 29:46.000 +Yeah, it is included in the presentation. Let me go there very quickly. + +29:46.000 --> 29:48.000 +Oops, sorry. + +29:48.000 --> 29:52.000 +Just one moment. + +29:52.000 --> 30:05.000 +Yeah, it's in the presentation with a QR code. So, let me look it up and bring it back up again. + +30:05.000 --> 30:13.000 +Thank you. + +30:13.000 --> 30:25.000 +So, the link for that document is on slide 13. + +30:25.000 --> 30:29.000 +Can you see it? + +30:29.000 --> 30:38.000 +I'm not seeing your slides, but okay, it is getting shared again. Yep. Thanks. + +30:38.000 --> 30:39.000 +Yeah, sorry. Go ahead. + +30:39.000 --> 30:42.000 +Yeah, that is the... + +30:42.000 --> 30:47.000 +Oh, very good. Somebody else also threw it up on there. + +30:47.000 --> 30:49.000 +But it's a little bit different. + +30:49.000 --> 31:01.000 +Yes, yes. + +31:01.000 --> 31:18.000 +Yeah, it's PLPC 120.0.33. + +31:18.000 --> 31:24.000 +I mean, any other questions? Yes, thank you. + +31:24.000 --> 31:27.000 +Thanks. Yeah, I don't see any other questions on the panel. + +31:27.000 --> 31:30.000 +Oh, there's one new question here from Thuna again. + +31:30.000 --> 31:35.000 +What is the scope of what you are imagining? Just software? + +31:35.000 --> 31:42.000 +No, certainly not just software. It is software and services. + +31:42.000 --> 31:49.000 +So, that is, I think, the next challenge and the next step for us. + +31:49.000 --> 32:03.000 +We have to think of ways of competing with Gmail and Outlook.com. + +32:03.000 --> 32:07.000 +So, services are certainly within the scope. + +32:07.000 --> 32:14.000 +In the abstract sense of what polyexistentials are. + +32:14.000 --> 32:18.000 +So, polyexistentials are things that exist in multiples. + +32:18.000 --> 32:24.000 +So, any form of knowledge is within the scope. + +32:24.000 --> 32:48.000 +And that goes to medications, goes to anything that is patentable and art and anything that is copyable. + +32:48.000 --> 33:03.000 +Yes, NFTs are a form of creating mono-existentials out of polyexistentials. + +33:03.000 --> 33:13.000 +So, by the time that you create an NFT, it is no longer the subject of what I am talking about. + +33:13.000 --> 33:23.000 +But the process of creating mono-existentials off of polyexistentials is what we should be discussing. + +33:23.000 --> 33:36.000 +There is a section in that book on that topic as well with the same subject of how one goes about creating that. + +33:36.000 --> 33:44.000 +You see, any sort of a name could be thought of as an NFT. + +33:44.000 --> 33:54.000 +So, if you think of our domain name system, although it is in the realm of software and services, + +33:54.000 --> 34:17.000 +what you have emacsconf.org that has become unique and it's a mono-existential. + +34:17.000 --> 34:30.000 +I think my key message here is this vocabulary of polyexistence and mono-existence and mixed existence, + +34:30.000 --> 34:38.000 +which is the novelty in the stuff that I have written. + +34:38.000 --> 34:43.000 +We all have understood these for a long time. + +34:43.000 --> 35:07.000 +It's a question of coming up with the right vocabulary to express them with precision that remains and then acting on them. + +35:07.000 --> 35:08.000 +Excellent. + +35:08.000 --> 35:15.000 +As a lot of people have said, I think both here and also in IRC, there is a lot of information and material to digest from this talk + +35:15.000 --> 35:21.000 +and to try to think really deeply about for the coming weeks and months. + +35:21.000 --> 35:24.000 +So, that's great. + +35:24.000 --> 35:28.000 +Thank you. + +35:28.000 --> 35:30.000 +We can keep this session going as long as you want. + +35:30.000 --> 35:33.000 +The stream has already moved on, but here it is open. + +35:33.000 --> 35:40.000 +If folks have any more questions, feel free to post them here or on the separate pad page. + +35:40.000 --> 35:46.000 +Yeah, or if not, then we can all drop off at some point. + +35:46.000 --> 35:48.000 +Sure. + +35:48.000 --> 35:52.000 +If there are any questions, I'll be happy to answer them. + +35:52.000 --> 36:07.000 +Otherwise, perhaps we could go and watch the rest. + +36:23.000 --> 36:31.000 +Yeah, I mean, I think perhaps it's a good thing to consider the session complete. + +36:31.000 --> 36:33.000 +Sure, sounds good to me. + +36:33.000 --> 36:36.000 +Thank you again very much Mohsen, really appreciate it. + +36:36.000 --> 36:38.000 +Thank you. + +36:38.000 --> 36:39.000 +Cheers, take care. + +36:39.000 --> 36:57.000 +Take care. + |