diff options
Diffstat (limited to '2022/captions/emacsconf-2022-hyperorg--powerful-productivity-with-hyperbole-and-org-mode--robert-weiner--answers.vtt')
| -rw-r--r-- | 2022/captions/emacsconf-2022-hyperorg--powerful-productivity-with-hyperbole-and-org-mode--robert-weiner--answers.vtt | 1184 |
1 files changed, 1184 insertions, 0 deletions
diff --git a/2022/captions/emacsconf-2022-hyperorg--powerful-productivity-with-hyperbole-and-org-mode--robert-weiner--answers.vtt b/2022/captions/emacsconf-2022-hyperorg--powerful-productivity-with-hyperbole-and-org-mode--robert-weiner--answers.vtt new file mode 100644 index 00000000..4ababba9 --- /dev/null +++ b/2022/captions/emacsconf-2022-hyperorg--powerful-productivity-with-hyperbole-and-org-mode--robert-weiner--answers.vtt @@ -0,0 +1,1184 @@ +WEBVTT + +00:00.000 --> 00:03.880 +Sorry, it's a little tight. I'm doing a lot of stuff behind the scene and now we're ready + +00:03.880 --> 00:23.320 +to go live in about five seconds. Sorry, five more seconds. Five. And we are live. Hello + +00:23.320 --> 00:27.920 +again, everyone. Hopefully you can hear me just fine. And we just had a talk with Bob + +00:27.920 --> 00:32.800 +and Bob is now here in the room. Hi Bob, how are you doing? Hi, doing well. Good to see + +00:32.800 --> 00:39.120 +you, Leo. You're doing a great job. Well, thank you. I must say, I am back to asking + +00:39.120 --> 00:44.160 +questions, but for the last two hours, I have been running after pre-recordings. I have + +00:44.160 --> 00:48.800 +been doing the re-encoding and stuff like this, which means it doesn't look like this, + +00:48.800 --> 00:53.220 +but this was very much of a marathon. And I'm glad to be here to be in a room with you + +00:53.220 --> 00:57.000 +because I'm actually going to be able to rest a little bit. + +00:57.000 --> 01:04.400 +Did you see the presentation? Not yet. Okay, can I lie? If I were able to lie, I would + +01:04.400 --> 01:08.960 +say yes, I've been very attentively watching everything in a presentation, but sadly, no, + +01:08.960 --> 01:13.160 +I've been quite busy elsewhere. And because, well, no, we don't need to tell them about + +01:13.160 --> 01:20.120 +this. But Bob, do you have the pad open in front of you? Yes. Well, I can't look at both + +01:20.120 --> 01:26.280 +at the same time, but... It's fine. You don't need to see my face. You've seen it. Okay. + +01:26.280 --> 01:31.120 +I see it here. Can you have multiple implicit button files? If so, how would you know which + +01:31.120 --> 01:39.780 +link came from what files? I guess they're one-way links, so you embed buttons in any + +01:39.780 --> 01:46.600 +number of files that you want and you traverse them, or they perform actions for you. There + +01:46.600 --> 01:52.900 +are three categories of buttons. We were showing you implicit buttons, which is one category. + +01:52.900 --> 01:59.800 +Then there's explicit buttons, which can also perform arbitrary actions, but those you embed + +01:59.800 --> 02:05.860 +one at a time in a file and you say, okay, I want this to be a link to an org file section + +02:05.860 --> 02:12.560 +or something. And then... Sorry for the interruption. Can we keep going? The third kind are global + +02:12.560 --> 02:18.500 +buttons, which we demonstrated there when you put those in your personal button file, + +02:18.500 --> 02:23.920 +and then you can access them by name anywhere in Emacs without even having a buffer up on + +02:23.920 --> 02:30.560 +screen. The next question... So I should just go down the questions? You don't have any + +02:30.560 --> 02:36.960 +Leo? No, no, feel free. I'm mostly here to be the pretty face that when a problem happens, + +02:36.960 --> 02:41.400 +I'm here to help. But since you have questions already in the pad, I'm more than happy to + +02:41.400 --> 02:45.420 +have you answer the question from the pad. And if we have a little more time, I'll come + +02:45.420 --> 02:49.560 +up with my own questions, so don't worry about it. Yeah, and encourage people to come into + +02:49.560 --> 02:57.020 +the chat. We can do something live and then go back to the Etherpad and deal with these + +02:57.020 --> 03:03.800 +later as well if people want to talk. So just to specify this, we might first have you answer + +03:03.800 --> 03:07.960 +the questions on the pad first and we'll open up the BBT a little later. For now, just you + +03:07.960 --> 03:17.340 +on the pad. I'll keep you posted. So are we showing the pad so people see it or I need + +03:17.340 --> 03:24.480 +to share that? So I'm sharing the pad right now, I'm managing what people are seeing on + +03:24.480 --> 03:27.840 +the stream. You might want to have the pad in front of you and read the question anyway + +03:27.840 --> 03:33.480 +to know which question you're actually answering. Okay, I do have the pad separately. Okay. + +03:33.480 --> 03:40.920 +What about using implicit buttons with multiple people with different configs? Not quite sure + +03:40.920 --> 03:49.820 +what the question is, but hyperbole is always thinking about people working collaboratively, + +03:49.820 --> 03:56.880 +though it is also somewhat focused on your personal information. So as you saw when we + +03:56.880 --> 04:03.940 +embedded a variable, either an Emacs list variable or an environment variable in a path, + +04:03.940 --> 04:08.620 +you can share those with people. You can embed hyperbole buttons in your email messages and + +04:08.620 --> 04:13.720 +they'll adapt based on the environment that the person activates them in. So there's a + +04:13.720 --> 04:22.200 +lot of useful kind of capability like that built in for collaboration as well. Coming + +04:22.200 --> 04:27.260 +in from org mode, would it be a fair assessment that hyperbole is in some way a generalization + +04:27.260 --> 04:33.240 +of what most people think of the great features of org to work across formats with the hyperbole + +04:33.240 --> 04:38.600 +links buttons being the recurring example and that it then further adds some capabilities + +04:38.600 --> 04:45.500 +again across formats being the global miner mode is interesting. I think it goes to RMS's + +04:45.500 --> 04:51.280 +talk that org's features could be more generalized modularized. How is hyperbole in that respect? + +04:51.280 --> 04:56.800 +Yes, it hyperbole is meant to give you all of these capabilities across your entire Emacs + +04:56.800 --> 05:05.000 +experience. So everything you saw in org mode works and all sorts of other buffer types + +05:05.000 --> 05:13.560 +to accept the pieces that were activating org's specific features. Internal radio targets, + +05:13.560 --> 05:22.560 +are they able to link to other org mode files that are part of my agenda? Certainly you + +05:22.560 --> 05:33.960 +can have, you can make a link type that crosses similar to what you saw in the K outliner + +05:33.960 --> 05:41.040 +links where you specified a file and then it just would have the sub part of the link + +05:41.040 --> 05:48.640 +that you wanted that would reference the target as well. Your package advances how useful + +05:48.640 --> 05:53.880 +a mouse can be with creating links. That we didn't show but you can just drag between + +05:53.880 --> 05:59.240 +windows and create an explicit link between things as well. Do you have any experience + +05:59.240 --> 06:03.640 +or thoughts about how touchscreens or mice could be used or improved with Emacs? Yes + +06:03.640 --> 06:13.080 +I do. In fact, when hyperbole was conceived originally it was part of a broader research + +06:13.080 --> 06:19.640 +project called personalized information environments. At the dawn of the web is when this started + +06:19.640 --> 06:25.800 +and we kind of figured people would be deluged with maybe 5,000 email messages a day or just + +06:25.800 --> 06:33.240 +all sorts of things like we are deluged with today. So we were thinking about sort of like + +06:33.240 --> 06:41.160 +org brain and the graphical sort of navigation that you could do in hyper versus and came + +06:41.160 --> 06:51.920 +up with some prototypes that were kind of very iPad like in the node sort of views but + +06:51.920 --> 06:58.760 +with much greater navigation capability. So a lot of that isn't implemented but we are + +06:58.760 --> 07:04.400 +always thinking about how to make things more useful and you see the smart context handling + +07:04.400 --> 07:10.360 +that the mouse keys do because there's drags associated with the action and the assist + +07:10.360 --> 07:16.800 +keys when put onto mice and those do a great many things that sort of replicate what a + +07:16.800 --> 07:22.960 +touchscreen might do as well. Would you consider hyperbole to be more of a format spec that + +07:22.960 --> 07:28.240 +can then be handled however we want or the engine itself along with that format i.e. + +07:28.240 --> 07:33.620 +can the simple link formats be used for other extensible purposes. Yes again hyperbole was + +07:33.620 --> 07:39.560 +conceived as a hypertext engine that would be part of the personalized information environments + +07:39.560 --> 07:47.600 +or pies and it would link that engine would then be available to multiple applications. + +07:47.600 --> 07:57.560 +So we sort of built an API not a web API but just a programming API that you can use and + +07:57.560 --> 08:03.960 +that's documented in the manual to build other applications atop hyperbole. It turned out + +08:03.960 --> 08:09.280 +that a lot of people didn't have that capability to program it so we just kept programming + +08:09.280 --> 08:14.640 +a lot of these default features that you see today with all the button types to show people + +08:14.640 --> 08:20.760 +what was possible. How is the integration with org roam? We're just starting to look + +08:20.760 --> 08:29.240 +at that you know again I just find with hyperbole there are no external required packages you + +08:29.240 --> 08:34.640 +just load hyperbole and whatever Emacs has that's all that it needs so that's kind of + +08:34.640 --> 08:40.080 +unique for such a big package like this. There are optional things like ace window that you + +08:40.080 --> 08:45.200 +can add on and then hyperbole will work with them but they're not required. So similarly + +08:45.200 --> 08:55.760 +we try to never have any separate C compiled programs like SQLite or org roam which uses + +08:55.760 --> 09:03.600 +SQLite that's required. However we interface to external systems like that so basically + +09:03.600 --> 09:12.400 +you know we'll do some interesting things with org roam nodes in the near future. When + +09:12.400 --> 09:19.200 +does something when doing something where do you determine where to put it k-o-t-l rollo + +09:19.200 --> 09:28.080 +org? I like k-o-t-l k-outline for journaling and org mode for getting things done. Sure + +09:28.080 --> 09:37.820 +I mean you know org and k-outliner are both outline formats so I like k-outliner for like + +09:37.820 --> 09:44.480 +requirements gathering anytime I need things numbered quickly I'm making lists or hierarchies + +09:44.480 --> 09:52.040 +I want those IDs there. Org does some of that but not nearly to the level that the k-outliner + +09:52.040 --> 09:58.600 +does. The rollo again I just stuff all sorts of information in there and then we have very + +09:58.600 --> 10:04.440 +simple search and retrieval operations that we can use on there so I don't need to worry + +10:04.440 --> 10:10.880 +about all of these like drawers and all the complexity that org allows because you want + +10:10.880 --> 10:16.760 +to publish something. I tend to use everything as a live hypertext and don't worry about + +10:16.760 --> 10:22.320 +printing it out or displaying it in some other format too much. So it depends on your taste + +10:22.320 --> 10:28.320 +I would say. Would you recommend a specific resource for getting into hyperbole or should + +10:28.320 --> 10:33.080 +I just start with the manual? Definitely interested in getting into this. Thank you for asking + +10:33.080 --> 10:39.600 +that. Definitely don't start with manual. The manual is almost 170 pages it's a reference + +10:39.600 --> 10:45.760 +manual for specific things that you want to know. For learning once you install hyperbole + +10:45.760 --> 10:55.080 +part of the menu system is control H HDD for documentation and then demo and that puts + +10:55.080 --> 10:59.080 +you into an interactive demo that you just walk through so it's sort of like the Emacs + +10:59.080 --> 11:06.980 +tutorial and that'll get you started much better than any other way and the second thing + +11:06.980 --> 11:13.960 +to do after that I would say is watch some of the videos. One of the videos is a talk + +11:13.960 --> 11:19.800 +I gave earlier that's about an hour-long talk introducing you to hyperbole and its concepts + +11:19.800 --> 11:25.280 +so I think those are the two best ways to get started and then you can move on to the + +11:25.280 --> 11:32.240 +reference manual if you're really good at reading. What is hyperorg? That's a name that + +11:32.240 --> 11:41.360 +Sasha made up I believe for the talk here. I thought it should be hyperborg. It would + +11:41.360 --> 11:48.200 +be a little funnier that right we're trying to be like a borg and get people to use hyperbole + +11:48.200 --> 11:55.440 +and org together and then you'll never you'll never want to be anything else except users + +11:55.440 --> 12:05.920 +of those packages. Anybody want to talk live on the big blue button? + +12:05.920 --> 12:11.960 +Again so the thing is I didn't give you the time when we were supposed to finish with + +12:11.960 --> 12:22.720 +the Q&A and give me just a second. I've confirmed with the people behind me that we actually + +12:22.720 --> 12:26.080 +need to get moving to the next talk at the top of this minute so Bob thank you so much + +12:26.080 --> 12:29.320 +for answering so many questions. I'm sorry we don't have more time for questions because + +12:29.320 --> 12:33.200 +your talk I think was a little longer than we anticipated at first but I still believe + +12:33.200 --> 12:35.840 +you've done a great job at first covering a lot of stuff. + +12:35.840 --> 12:40.080 +I'll be on the etherbed for a little while if people want to push anything else there. + +12:40.080 --> 12:44.040 +Also if you want to stay here we are going to open the BBB if people want to ask you + +12:44.040 --> 12:51.360 +questions we're going to publish the link. Bob we're going to need to get going with + +12:51.360 --> 12:54.560 +the stream we're starting the next talk in 20 seconds thank you so much and I'll see + +12:54.560 --> 13:14.640 +you later. Take care Leo thank you. Bye bye. + +13:24.560 --> 13:36.400 +Gosh yeah pretty much I mean I'm still on this thing if it shows up for a minute but + +13:36.400 --> 13:56.480 +nobody's there. + +13:56.480 --> 14:13.060 +Take care. + +14:26.480 --> 14:28.540 +you + +14:56.480 --> 14:58.540 +you + +15:26.480 --> 15:28.540 +you + +15:56.480 --> 15:58.540 +you + +16:26.480 --> 16:28.540 +you + +16:56.480 --> 16:58.540 +you + +17:26.480 --> 17:28.540 +you + +17:56.480 --> 17:58.540 +you + +18:26.480 --> 18:28.540 +you + +18:56.480 --> 18:58.540 +you + +19:26.480 --> 19:28.540 +you + +19:56.480 --> 19:58.540 +you + +20:26.480 --> 20:28.540 +you + +20:56.480 --> 20:58.540 +you + +21:26.480 --> 21:28.540 +you + +21:56.480 --> 21:58.540 +you + +22:26.480 --> 22:28.540 +you + +22:56.480 --> 22:58.540 +you + +23:26.640 --> 23:28.340 +you + +23:37.680 --> 23:41.040 +Would you still be up to talking? + +23:41.040 --> 23:56.400 +Hi, are you talking to me? + +23:56.400 --> 23:57.400 +Yeah. + +23:57.400 --> 24:12.720 +For a minute, I'm going to just go take a walk in a little bit, but I can quickly pause. + +24:12.720 --> 24:14.920 +Just go ahead. + +24:14.920 --> 24:20.780 +One thing whenever I've tried setting up any knowledge bases, I've generally thrown them + +24:20.780 --> 24:24.500 +away after a while, slowly picking up more and more. + +24:24.500 --> 24:31.680 +Right now, I'm using org room and LogSec. + +24:31.680 --> 24:38.340 +And one of the features I found in LogSec that I like is you're able to have the link + +24:38.340 --> 24:44.520 +in such a way where I can make an outline of everything I want to do on a week in one + +24:44.520 --> 24:49.640 +file and then in the journal view that it will dynamically generate, it will show you + +24:49.640 --> 24:55.240 +the tasks individually on that day just for that day. + +24:55.240 --> 24:57.160 +So is there any way? + +24:57.160 --> 25:04.720 +So it creates kind of a journal based on dated items that it's extracting from multiple other + +25:04.720 --> 25:06.320 +sources, right? + +25:06.320 --> 25:07.320 +Yeah. + +25:07.320 --> 25:16.840 +So it's got a section below it that's from different sources and you can go and do that + +25:16.840 --> 25:24.160 +and it will just dynamically put it at the bottom, but just for those specific links. + +25:24.160 --> 25:32.800 +You know, sort of like the idea of transclusion, right, is something that they've addressed + +25:32.800 --> 25:37.960 +in org mode and we haven't really dealt with that in hyperbole. + +25:37.960 --> 25:43.320 +So those are areas that we want to get into. + +25:43.320 --> 25:51.760 +I think there's a lot of work going on in LogSec and Obsidian that I look at when I + +25:51.760 --> 25:53.900 +have time. + +25:53.900 --> 25:58.720 +So there's definitely ideas to draw around that. + +25:58.720 --> 26:03.920 +One of the things we find is there's just covering all across Emacs, there's so much + +26:03.920 --> 26:12.880 +to do all the time and this being a part-time project, we have to think like RMS does across + +26:12.880 --> 26:17.640 +years rather than weeks just because of the energy around it. + +26:17.640 --> 26:25.280 +But you know, the more people can kind of like write a paragraph and say if hyperbole + +26:25.280 --> 26:32.040 +or some tool could do this, you know, the more likely it is that we'll approach it and + +26:32.040 --> 26:33.920 +turn it into reality. + +26:33.920 --> 26:34.920 +Yeah. + +26:34.920 --> 26:40.440 +Well, like you could probably write some functions that will just dynamically grab information + +26:40.440 --> 26:41.440 +like that out. + +26:41.440 --> 26:49.000 +Yeah, well, I mean like you have that with the high roller so you can just make arbitrary + +26:49.000 --> 26:56.080 +documents and just put stars at the front of each node and the high roller will pull + +26:56.080 --> 27:00.000 +out anything that you want to match on. + +27:00.000 --> 27:05.400 +You know, it can be regular expressions, logic expressions with and or not. + +27:05.400 --> 27:11.400 +So that's already there and it's very simple with the other capabilities to just turn + +27:11.400 --> 27:15.600 +a search into a button somewhere in your file. + +27:15.600 --> 27:23.200 +So you basically create your own dynamic views then without any additional mechanism. + +27:23.200 --> 27:27.400 +But when you want to deal with like the dates and you want to see it, you know, that's a + +27:27.400 --> 27:33.840 +specific view that we would program for you and provide. + +27:33.840 --> 27:40.880 +With Not Much and MU4E, the thing I like about Not Much More is you're able to in your search + +27:40.880 --> 27:48.640 +queries you can use the ands and ors with subject headers or stuff that's only in the + +27:48.640 --> 27:56.520 +body of the paragraph of the email or who it's to and from and I don't think MU4E has + +27:56.520 --> 27:59.120 +near that support. + +27:59.120 --> 28:07.360 +You could use something with org mode and you could do that type of stuff searching + +28:07.360 --> 28:12.520 +like based off of keywords with, there's a package by Alpha Papa, I can't remember the + +28:12.520 --> 28:13.520 +name of it. + +28:13.520 --> 28:14.520 +Org Rifle. + +28:14.520 --> 28:15.520 +OrgQL. + +28:15.520 --> 28:17.960 +OrgQL, yeah. + +28:17.960 --> 28:23.440 +And does like you have anything? + +28:23.440 --> 28:31.280 +I mean, yeah, it's like, I'm not sure you combine say subject, colon, whatever, your + +28:31.280 --> 28:38.520 +regular expression and you map that with a logic expression. + +28:38.520 --> 28:44.600 +So in hyperbole, in high roll though, to do a logic expression, you just do it like a + +28:44.600 --> 28:46.080 +Lisp expression. + +28:46.080 --> 28:49.040 +So but you use and or, ex or not. + +28:49.040 --> 28:56.920 +So you say, you know, open paren, not, and then what you want to not match to, right? + +28:56.920 --> 29:02.480 +This node doesn't have that in it and you know, a broader expression with an and around + +29:02.480 --> 29:07.000 +it would say, so it's not this and it's this. + +29:07.000 --> 29:11.960 +So that all exists the moment you pull up the interface to say, I want to do a string + +29:11.960 --> 29:12.960 +search. + +29:12.960 --> 29:18.080 +You can actually embed those logic expressions right in your search there and it'll do them + +29:18.080 --> 29:21.820 +for you. + +29:21.820 --> 29:28.820 +That would mostly be regex, right, or is it a different syntax? + +29:28.820 --> 29:34.600 +It's a different, so you can have regexes embedded in the logic expression, but the + +29:34.600 --> 29:44.000 +logic itself is done with like the equivalent of, you know, S expressions with and or not + +29:44.000 --> 29:45.200 +an ex or. + +29:45.200 --> 29:57.320 +So I could say and bird watch and it would only find outline items that contain the words + +29:57.320 --> 29:59.280 +bird and watch. + +29:59.280 --> 30:06.000 +So it's very simple, you know, textual like that, but then bird could be a regex if I, + +30:06.000 --> 30:08.500 +you know, as well. + +30:08.500 --> 30:15.600 +So things like that, you have to try it out, I think, you know, to really get a feel for + +30:15.600 --> 30:16.600 +it. + +30:16.600 --> 30:25.080 +I've tried it some, I just, it's just a lot harder to, they have so many of these knowledge + +30:25.080 --> 30:30.120 +base programs that it's hard to make a knowledge base with each one of them and then compare + +30:30.120 --> 30:31.120 +them. + +30:31.120 --> 30:32.120 +Oh, I agree. + +30:32.120 --> 30:33.120 +I mean, that's part of why we built it, right? + +30:33.120 --> 30:39.560 +I mean, we built this before org existed, so. + +30:39.560 --> 30:46.600 +You know, I really do want to tie them together, but I agree with Stallman that org, you know, + +30:46.600 --> 30:54.540 +for scientific research purposes has embedded so many things that people outside that community + +30:54.540 --> 30:59.240 +don't really need and, you know, it's gotten to a level of complexity, I mean, you look + +30:59.240 --> 31:06.080 +at the code base that I still kind of, you know, happy to interface with it and use it + +31:06.080 --> 31:12.560 +and I see a lot of great stuff in there, but I want to be able to have a much simpler format + +31:12.560 --> 31:18.160 +for when I just have all this unstructured data that I want to deal with. + +31:18.160 --> 31:26.760 +Yeah, there's definitely a part of org mode that, that unmodularity and all the features + +31:26.760 --> 31:39.080 +that doesn't feel like Unix-y and the rest of Emacs and I think like org, yeah, just + +31:39.080 --> 31:41.800 +some of the features, org-id, I can't remember what they are. + +31:41.800 --> 31:42.800 +It's really the opposite. + +31:42.800 --> 31:49.180 +It's like, it's coming at it from, you know, that structure process, okay, we're going + +31:49.180 --> 31:54.960 +to tag everything with, you know, what property it is. + +31:54.960 --> 31:59.800 +And hyperbole is sort of the opposite to say, well, we have relational databases for when + +31:59.800 --> 32:01.520 +we're doing that kind of thing. + +32:01.520 --> 32:07.360 +So this is for your everyday information where, you know, oh, I just grabbed all this off + +32:07.360 --> 32:14.440 +the web or, you know, I just added in 200 files and now I want to deal with it and kind + +32:14.440 --> 32:17.760 +of mix it into my Hyperverse. + +32:17.760 --> 32:20.640 +What kind of capabilities can you give me to do that? + +32:20.640 --> 32:25.480 +So say like there were 200 documents that somebody handed you and they all have this + +32:25.480 --> 32:31.520 +cross-reference pattern embedded in it, right, which is a version of hyperlinks, but they're + +32:31.520 --> 32:33.100 +not actually hyperlinks. + +32:33.100 --> 32:40.800 +So you just create a couple line button type in hyperbole because all the mechanisms there + +32:40.800 --> 32:41.800 +already. + +32:41.800 --> 32:48.060 +And then once you activate that type, all of those documents now have those cross-references + +32:48.060 --> 32:50.380 +as hyperlinks. + +32:50.380 --> 32:56.360 +And you solve the problem could be for millions of cross-references with three lines of code. + +32:56.360 --> 33:02.040 +So that's the kind of leverage that we're looking to get without people having to, you + +33:02.040 --> 33:09.440 +know, touch the original source format. + +33:09.440 --> 33:15.760 +That's one of the things your package has tackled was links in the wild, email addresses, + +33:15.760 --> 33:22.440 +websites that people use and identify with. + +33:22.440 --> 33:27.600 +And then you got all that behavior without having to learn key bindings like you do in + +33:27.600 --> 33:28.600 +the org, right? + +33:28.600 --> 33:32.360 +I mean, you got to know at least like 10 in the org, I think. + +33:32.360 --> 33:37.200 +And you know, it's really too largely in hyperbole. + +33:37.200 --> 33:42.560 +So for me, when I'm going along, you know, I just want to mark things, operate on them + +33:42.560 --> 33:46.680 +and not really think about the command a lot. + +33:46.680 --> 33:52.760 +And so, of course, we all know many commands in Emacs, but, you know, so I have that the + +33:52.760 --> 33:59.760 +editing commands, but the knowledge base commands, I don't really need to add on that much more + +33:59.760 --> 34:02.080 +and I can still be very effective. + +34:02.080 --> 34:10.440 +Yeah, you dealt with links in the wild while simultaneously advancing the state of the + +34:10.440 --> 34:13.520 +art with the implicit links. + +34:13.520 --> 34:20.160 +So like what can you do if you stay within your own system and you control everything? + +34:20.160 --> 34:28.960 +Yeah, I think that's the, you know, people love implicit buttons, but it sort of takes + +34:28.960 --> 34:33.520 +a while for it to sink in what you can do with it, right? + +34:33.520 --> 34:40.200 +Because it is a little difficult to figure out how you create your own type. + +34:40.200 --> 34:48.120 +But like we have a GitHub, I don't know if you use GitHub, but type built in and, you + +34:48.120 --> 34:57.720 +know, with very short cross references, it can access issues, commits, projects, linked + +34:57.720 --> 35:04.800 +to all of their things with just, you know, a few characters in your document. + +35:04.800 --> 35:11.720 +And so, you know, there's an interface to an entire web ecosystem that's done in one + +35:11.720 --> 35:19.560 +module and I verbally and, you know, you don't, all you have to do is use it. + +35:19.560 --> 35:24.920 +Something that could be interesting there is if you had it with next common list web + +35:24.920 --> 35:33.000 +browser, you click a GitHub issue on the website and it either downloads the source code or + +35:33.000 --> 35:39.680 +just goes and then the uses maggot or forge to download the issues and then just automatically + +35:39.680 --> 35:42.520 +opens it up in Emacs for you to look at it there. + +35:42.520 --> 35:43.520 +That'd be an interesting. + +35:43.520 --> 35:44.520 +Yeah. + +35:44.520 --> 35:52.160 +Well, we have that for, so if you just type in any buffer, you put a bug pound sign and + +35:52.160 --> 36:00.080 +the number and you press your action key on that, that will display that bug number for + +36:00.080 --> 36:05.640 +Emacs in good news and the dialogue associated with it. + +36:05.640 --> 36:15.440 +So, you know, we have that similar kind of thing for GitHub, GitLab and so it's, you + +36:15.440 --> 36:19.240 +know, a lot of people are interested in that because they have Jira or something and they + +36:19.240 --> 36:24.840 +just want a simple way, you know, to get at their issues in whatever web browser they + +36:24.840 --> 36:25.840 +use. + +36:25.840 --> 36:32.480 +And that's very easy to do and one of the most common things programmers do. + +36:32.480 --> 36:38.320 +You still there? + +36:38.320 --> 36:40.320 +Yeah. + +36:40.320 --> 36:42.320 +Okay. + +36:42.320 --> 36:45.560 +It's just funny. + +36:45.560 --> 36:53.760 +So yeah, I hope, I guess you've obviously explored hyperbole a little bit, you know, + +36:53.760 --> 36:59.760 +let us know what the barriers are to, you know, becoming a regular user and we'll work + +36:59.760 --> 37:01.480 +on this. + +37:01.480 --> 37:11.080 +One thing I found that I like about the K outline is if you, long form journaling is + +37:11.080 --> 37:18.880 +if I do that with centering the buffer, making it a little bit bigger, the text a little + +37:18.880 --> 37:24.200 +bit bigger, I find that I like that more than org mode. + +37:24.200 --> 37:28.360 +If it's short enough, it doesn't matter, but if it's long enough or my thoughts are complex + +37:28.360 --> 37:38.160 +enough, not worrying about buffer headings or body paragraph content or anything along + +37:38.160 --> 37:43.800 +those lines, less presentation helps a lot in that. + +37:43.800 --> 37:50.960 +The automatic paragraph formatting just makes it work, I type, I'm good to go, it automatically + +37:50.960 --> 37:52.360 +does everything like that. + +37:52.360 --> 37:53.360 +Right. + +37:53.360 --> 37:58.400 +You can just write and you get all, you get all this stuff for free. + +37:58.400 --> 38:02.840 +That's kind of a lot, you know, that's like I talked about the cognitive overhead. + +38:02.840 --> 38:08.640 +You know, I think Emacs, people have a lot of trouble understanding why people stick + +38:08.640 --> 38:18.120 +with Emacs now, but I think it does, the common editing capabilities are very similar to hyperbole, + +38:18.120 --> 38:19.120 +right? + +38:19.120 --> 38:24.560 +So you go across all these modes, different applications, but the editing stays the same. + +38:24.560 --> 38:32.520 +That takes so much off your plate compared to learning new hotkeys for every application. + +38:32.520 --> 38:41.560 +And so, you know, we're sold and now you want that kind of thing for your writing, for your + +38:41.560 --> 38:43.560 +knowledge management. + +38:43.560 --> 38:50.840 +And yeah, I think org is, you know, really, it was built for the scientists, the researchers, + +38:50.840 --> 38:51.840 +right? + +38:51.840 --> 38:54.120 +They have to do all that stuff with citations. + +38:54.120 --> 38:57.040 +I'm never going to use the citation capability, right? + +38:57.040 --> 38:59.720 +I don't publish much anymore. + +38:59.720 --> 39:06.020 +So you know, all that work is kind of lost on me, whereas like, you know, better structured + +39:06.020 --> 39:12.840 +outlining is going to be a win for, you know, a very broad cross section of people. + +39:12.840 --> 39:19.400 +So I think it's, you know, I wish more people would give it a try, but I think now we're + +39:19.400 --> 39:25.760 +doing a lot more things that are making hyperbole more accessible to people. + +39:25.760 --> 39:31.240 +A lot of people, I don't know if we can, like people have asked for a doom interface or + +39:31.240 --> 39:32.880 +space max interface. + +39:32.880 --> 39:40.640 +I do notice on Reddit that tons of people seem to use one of those two and they've never + +39:40.640 --> 39:45.720 +learned Emacs in its core form, right? + +39:45.720 --> 39:49.160 +They're coming from VI, so they're Vim users or something. + +39:49.160 --> 39:55.500 +And they, I guess they like all this layering kind of capability, exposing the features. + +39:55.500 --> 40:00.560 +So I haven't really looked at that, but maybe, you know, if we did that and we don't have + +40:00.560 --> 40:08.480 +hyperbole on Melpa, so although, you know, some people, they replace Elpa mistakenly + +40:08.480 --> 40:12.160 +with Melpa, you know, in their config. + +40:12.160 --> 40:16.600 +And so they never see hyperbole because it's not in their packages. + +40:16.600 --> 40:22.920 +Like, I didn't know this existed, like, well, don't do that. + +40:22.920 --> 40:30.600 +One thing that would be nice for stuff like this is having Emacs in it for hyperbole with + +40:30.600 --> 40:35.780 +a knowledge base and then one with Orgrom and a knowledge base and one with the ZK package + +40:35.780 --> 40:39.300 +and a knowledge base, et cetera, et cetera. + +40:39.300 --> 40:45.740 +Is that something you might look at doing a little, you know, sort of like proof of + +40:45.740 --> 40:55.240 +concept of, and share with us, you know, give us some idea of your thoughts? + +40:55.240 --> 41:02.640 +I just thought of it while watching this talk, and I might put together some resources of, + +41:02.640 --> 41:10.360 +there's some other packages that, or ZK, or there's another one of these packages that + +41:10.360 --> 41:11.360 +has a knowledge base. + +41:11.360 --> 41:14.760 +I might put together resources like that, see if I see anybody else's. + +41:14.760 --> 41:16.880 +Yeah, that'd be great. + +41:16.880 --> 41:25.400 +And do you try to note, do you use a prods denote package? + +41:25.400 --> 41:29.600 +I haven't messed with that one yet. + +41:29.600 --> 41:32.520 +I've looked at it. + +41:32.520 --> 41:38.900 +One contention I see between using all these right here is, like, you have the org FC package + +41:38.900 --> 41:44.520 +for flashcards, and that would sound really nice for learning new English words that I + +41:44.520 --> 41:45.520 +ever come across. + +41:45.520 --> 41:50.520 +I could make that, put the description. + +41:50.520 --> 41:54.960 +But if I, it seems like you can either use org rom and you're completely tied into the + +41:54.960 --> 42:01.240 +org rom org system, or you don't do that, then you can't use any of those features where + +42:01.240 --> 42:05.800 +they treat each of the nodes as a individual system. + +42:05.800 --> 42:09.880 +I've dabbled with multiple of the systems, so maybe there's a way. + +42:09.880 --> 42:10.880 +Are you good with org rom? + +42:10.880 --> 42:13.920 +I've been having this one problem. + +42:13.920 --> 42:14.920 +It's weird. + +42:14.920 --> 42:21.280 +I get in this mode where I pointed it somewhere and it worked at one time, and now I repoint + +42:21.280 --> 42:26.040 +it somewhere, and then I point it back and it won't work anymore. + +42:26.040 --> 42:33.620 +So I can't get it to sometimes index my set of org files, and it seems like it should + +42:33.620 --> 42:43.460 +be so basic, but there's something in the sequence of how it caches, I guess, the directory + +42:43.460 --> 42:49.520 +of org files that maybe I've solved it already, I don't recall, but I was just wondering if + +42:49.520 --> 42:53.080 +anybody else had that experience. + +42:53.080 --> 43:00.000 +I've mostly just dabbled in a couple of these systems and then haven't really chosen one + +43:00.000 --> 43:02.120 +to just use. + +43:02.120 --> 43:03.120 +Do you program? + +43:03.120 --> 43:10.040 +Are you by nature a programmer or is it like a hobby? + +43:10.040 --> 43:11.040 +Hobby. + +43:11.040 --> 43:20.440 +I haven't done too much on writing my own functions, but Emacs is by far the biggest + +43:20.440 --> 43:28.720 +or longest program I've ever...longest program, config, whatever, that I've ever used. + +43:28.720 --> 43:34.200 +And you started on Emacs how long ago? + +43:34.200 --> 43:41.760 +Five or ten years ago, somewhere along those lines. + +43:41.760 --> 43:43.240 +Good one. + +43:43.240 --> 43:48.160 +Yeah, it was nice having Stelman there today, right? + +43:48.160 --> 43:56.520 +It's like, well, if you want an actual answer, there's something that only he could answer. + +43:56.520 --> 44:03.400 +I'm surprised how many questions there were on that talk. + +44:03.400 --> 44:06.240 +What about them? + +44:06.240 --> 44:09.840 +I was surprised just about how many questions there were on... + +44:09.840 --> 44:16.320 +Yeah, you hear all this negative stuff about him, but people are very interested in where + +44:16.320 --> 44:25.500 +stuff came from, why have you never used this package that everybody else uses and things + +44:25.500 --> 44:35.640 +like that, what his world view is, since it is so different than so many other people's. + +44:35.640 --> 44:47.200 +All right, well, great talking to you and good luck with your knowledge space research + +44:47.200 --> 44:51.200 +and yeah, let me know if there's something. + +44:51.200 --> 44:57.880 +Try out the development version of Hyperbole like I should, that'll get you all the newest + +44:57.880 --> 45:02.000 +features and we'll get 9.0 out as soon as we can. + +45:02.000 --> 45:06.640 +Yeah, I use the Borg, so I actually do try out the development already. + +45:06.640 --> 45:08.640 +Oh, great, super. + +45:08.640 --> 45:15.040 +Also because sometimes since I'm using the development version of Emacs, it doesn't always... + +45:15.040 --> 45:18.560 +I've had issues compiling in the past because I needed the newer code. + +45:18.560 --> 45:26.760 +I think, I can't entirely remember, but thanks for the package and good talking, nice ideas + +45:26.760 --> 45:27.760 +and talk. + +45:27.760 --> 45:28.760 +Yeah. + +45:28.760 --> 45:29.760 +Take care. + +45:29.760 --> 45:30.760 +Bye. + +45:30.760 --> 45:50.120 +Bye. + |