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diff --git a/2020/subtitles/emacsconf-2020--39-nongnu-elpa--questions--richard-stallman-autogen.sbv b/2020/subtitles/emacsconf-2020--39-nongnu-elpa--questions--richard-stallman-autogen.sbv new file mode 100644 index 00000000..92c7f050 --- /dev/null +++ b/2020/subtitles/emacsconf-2020--39-nongnu-elpa--questions--richard-stallman-autogen.sbv @@ -0,0 +1,2832 @@ +0:00:00.640,0:00:05.680 +okay so the first question is what is an + +0:00:04.160,0:00:08.800 +example of a car + +0:00:05.680,0:00:12.160 +a package currently in + +0:00:08.800,0:00:13.759 +a non-elpa repo that does not work well + +0:00:12.160,0:00:18.000 +with emacs + +0:00:13.759,0:00:19.760 +well one of them is s dot el + +0:00:18.000,0:00:21.920 +and this is what made me aware that + +0:00:19.760,0:00:25.760 +there was an issue here that caused + +0:00:21.920,0:00:29.439 +problems well s.e.l + +0:00:25.760,0:00:31.279 +is a beautifully written package + +0:00:29.439,0:00:32.800 +that appears to be very useful for + +0:00:31.279,0:00:36.320 +people + +0:00:32.800,0:00:39.520 +and there's just one thing wrong with it + +0:00:36.320,0:00:43.680 +it gobbled up the name space + +0:00:39.520,0:00:47.039 +of symbols starting with s dash + +0:00:43.680,0:00:49.440 +and i was shocked to discover that + +0:00:47.039,0:00:51.760 +somebody who had not coordinated with + +0:00:49.440,0:00:55.360 +the emacs developers at all + +0:00:51.760,0:00:56.800 +had implemented a package using such a + +0:00:55.360,0:00:59.760 +short prefix which + +0:00:56.800,0:01:01.520 +isn't the right way to do things oh by + +0:00:59.760,0:01:04.000 +the way the questions have moved off the + +0:01:01.520,0:01:05.360 +screen this is no good i can continue + +0:01:04.000,0:01:08.880 +answering this one + +0:01:05.360,0:01:12.159 +but i'll be stuck when this one is over + +0:01:08.880,0:01:15.040 +anyway so uh + +0:01:12.159,0:01:16.560 +and i was told that there was nothing i + +0:01:15.040,0:01:19.920 +could do about it + +0:01:16.560,0:01:22.960 +that so many users packages were using + +0:01:19.920,0:01:24.240 +swl and thus essentially using that + +0:01:22.960,0:01:28.080 +definition + +0:01:24.240,0:01:31.360 +of the s dash star symbols + +0:01:28.080,0:01:34.720 +that any attempt to use them + +0:01:31.360,0:01:38.079 +publicly or privately for anything else + +0:01:34.720,0:01:41.680 +would lead to horrible problems + +0:01:38.079,0:01:45.520 +and i don't like that + +0:01:41.680,0:01:49.040 +i decided i wanted to do something + +0:01:45.520,0:01:52.320 +a so that that wouldn't happen again + +0:01:49.040,0:01:55.119 +and b to make it unhappen + +0:01:52.320,0:01:57.840 +in that case well the way to make it + +0:01:55.119,0:02:02.240 +unhappen in that case is with a new + +0:01:57.840,0:02:05.360 +symbol renaming feature the idea is + +0:02:02.240,0:02:09.119 +you rename that file to something else + +0:02:05.360,0:02:11.520 +and then you define an s.e.l that + +0:02:09.119,0:02:13.040 +sets up symbol renaming and then loads + +0:02:11.520,0:02:16.080 +the something else + +0:02:13.040,0:02:16.400 +so it actually runs the same code it + +0:02:16.080,0:02:20.879 +just + +0:02:16.400,0:02:23.920 +doesn't globally define the symbols + +0:02:20.879,0:02:26.160 +s dash whatever but they + +0:02:23.920,0:02:28.319 +appear to work for the programs that + +0:02:26.160,0:02:32.640 +explicitly + +0:02:28.319,0:02:36.000 +require that require sdl + +0:02:32.640,0:02:38.080 +or the s package so this gets the same + +0:02:36.000,0:02:40.239 +behavior for all the programs that are + +0:02:38.080,0:02:43.360 +using that library + +0:02:40.239,0:02:47.840 +and uh doesn't interfere + +0:02:43.360,0:02:50.319 +with the global name space at all + +0:02:47.840,0:02:52.080 +however to do that we need to have a + +0:02:50.319,0:02:55.360 +package + +0:02:52.080,0:02:57.760 +s.e.l that isn't the same + +0:02:55.360,0:02:58.640 +totally a short file that's totally + +0:02:57.760,0:03:01.440 +different + +0:02:58.640,0:03:02.840 +plus we've got to have the file that + +0:03:01.440,0:03:06.239 +normally is called + +0:03:02.840,0:03:10.319 +s.e.l available but + +0:03:06.239,0:03:13.040 +uh under another name well + +0:03:10.319,0:03:14.800 +how are we going to do that we can't put + +0:03:13.040,0:03:18.879 +this into + +0:03:14.800,0:03:21.920 +into emacs in a nice way that + +0:03:18.879,0:03:24.560 +won't make the uh won't make the + +0:03:21.920,0:03:26.480 +maintainer angry + +0:03:24.560,0:03:28.159 +of the mate to the developer of that + +0:03:26.480,0:03:32.080 +package + +0:03:28.159,0:03:34.640 +but we can do it with non-gnu + +0:03:32.080,0:03:36.239 +elpa we can put those two things into + +0:03:34.640,0:03:38.720 +non-gnu elpa + +0:03:36.239,0:03:40.720 +without any difficulty and this shows + +0:03:38.720,0:03:43.280 +one of the advantages + +0:03:40.720,0:03:45.440 +we can put files we can put packages + +0:03:43.280,0:03:48.400 +into non-gdu elpa + +0:03:45.440,0:03:49.599 +and make changes in them now in general + +0:03:48.400,0:03:51.760 +we wouldn't + +0:03:49.599,0:03:54.319 +go to the effort of making big changes + +0:03:51.760,0:03:56.400 +that's just too much to do + +0:03:54.319,0:03:58.000 +unless something's really important but + +0:03:56.400,0:04:01.120 +small changes + +0:03:58.000,0:04:04.319 +that help things fit in are + +0:04:01.120,0:04:07.120 +easy to do and + +0:04:04.319,0:04:10.319 +uh okay oh so basically the recording + +0:04:07.120,0:04:13.439 +didn't get anything until now i just saw + +0:04:10.319,0:04:14.319 +a note pop up this session is now being + +0:04:13.439,0:04:16.320 +recorded + +0:04:14.319,0:04:18.160 +i hope it's been recorded all along it + +0:04:16.320,0:04:21.280 +would be a shame to + +0:04:18.160,0:04:27.120 +spoil oh good okay + +0:04:21.280,0:04:30.479 +okay good so uh that's one of the issues + +0:04:27.120,0:04:33.840 +uh does non-gnu eopa already exist + +0:04:30.479,0:04:35.360 +or is this a sort of quote plan i don't + +0:04:33.840,0:04:37.919 +know why you have to + +0:04:35.360,0:04:40.400 +put scare quotes around the word plan + +0:04:37.919,0:04:44.160 +it's sort of in between + +0:04:40.400,0:04:45.440 +it's the creation of it is started you + +0:04:44.160,0:04:48.160 +will find + +0:04:45.440,0:04:51.520 +that there is an archive that it's + +0:04:48.160,0:04:54.880 +possible to download packages from + +0:04:51.520,0:04:57.120 +and there is a repository to put them in + +0:04:54.880,0:04:58.560 +but that's not the way it's really + +0:04:57.120,0:05:02.800 +supposed to work + +0:04:58.560,0:05:04.320 +uh this is not supposed to be like the + +0:05:02.800,0:05:07.280 +new elpa where there's + +0:05:04.320,0:05:09.039 +one repo for all the packages and thus + +0:05:07.280,0:05:11.199 +anyone who wants to edit any of them + +0:05:09.039,0:05:11.680 +anyone that we want to have edit any of + +0:05:11.199,0:05:13.280 +them + +0:05:11.680,0:05:15.440 +has got to have access to the whole + +0:05:13.280,0:05:18.560 +thing for one thing + +0:05:15.440,0:05:21.840 +some packages will make + +0:05:18.560,0:05:25.120 +an arrangement with the developers + +0:05:21.840,0:05:27.039 +and they'll assure us that they will + +0:05:25.120,0:05:28.400 +do things as things should be done and + +0:05:27.039,0:05:32.080 +then we'll + +0:05:28.400,0:05:35.919 +have their repo copied automatically + +0:05:32.080,0:05:38.160 +or in other cases say + +0:05:35.919,0:05:40.160 +copied manually with a little checking + +0:05:38.160,0:05:43.199 +every so often + +0:05:40.160,0:05:46.400 +uh and then uh in + +0:05:43.199,0:05:49.440 +other cases we'll need to have our own + +0:05:46.400,0:05:52.479 +repo for a particular package + +0:05:49.440,0:05:54.400 +but we shouldn't have a single repo for + +0:05:52.479,0:05:55.919 +all the packages we should have a repo + +0:05:54.400,0:05:57.840 +for each package + +0:05:55.919,0:06:01.120 +so that the people working on that can + +0:05:57.840,0:06:04.319 +get access to modify it + +0:06:01.120,0:06:06.080 +this has to be finished setting up + +0:06:04.319,0:06:07.680 +and we're still working out the + +0:06:06.080,0:06:11.039 +procedures + +0:06:07.680,0:06:14.400 +for instance for making the arrangements + +0:06:11.039,0:06:15.440 +with the developers of a package so that + +0:06:14.400,0:06:18.840 +we can + +0:06:15.440,0:06:20.400 +we hope uh entrust its development to + +0:06:18.840,0:06:24.240 +them and + +0:06:20.400,0:06:24.240 +rely on them directly + +0:06:24.800,0:06:29.520 +and there may be more that needs to be + +0:06:26.560,0:06:29.520 +worked on + +0:06:29.840,0:06:35.840 +oh there's so many questions + +0:06:36.639,0:06:40.880 +well i hope you the third question is + +0:06:39.280,0:06:43.680 +what are the benefits + +0:06:40.880,0:06:46.240 +i hope that people now see the benefits + +0:06:43.680,0:06:49.599 +i've described them + +0:06:46.240,0:06:51.440 +uh next question is it possible to work + +0:06:49.599,0:06:54.720 +with the melba team + +0:06:51.440,0:06:59.440 +to integrate that into emacs + +0:06:54.720,0:07:03.759 +no because the goal doesn't make sense + +0:06:59.440,0:07:07.199 +melba the way it's done does not belong + +0:07:03.759,0:07:08.560 +inside emacs in any sense well first of + +0:07:07.199,0:07:11.280 +all it can't literally be + +0:07:08.560,0:07:13.280 +inside emacs we don't have copyright + +0:07:11.280,0:07:18.160 +assignments for that code + +0:07:13.280,0:07:20.560 +and to get it would be unfeasible + +0:07:18.160,0:07:21.520 +but we're not asking for copyright + +0:07:20.560,0:07:25.280 +assignments for + +0:07:21.520,0:07:27.599 +non-gnu elpa so that's + +0:07:25.280,0:07:31.440 +you might wonder could melpa be merged + +0:07:27.599,0:07:35.039 +with non-venue elpa the problem is + +0:07:31.440,0:07:38.240 +melpa doesn't modify the packages + +0:07:35.039,0:07:41.360 +it's just a place to find releases of + +0:07:38.240,0:07:44.800 +packages wherever they happen to be + +0:07:41.360,0:07:48.319 +and they put packages in with + +0:07:44.800,0:07:51.520 +only a little bit of checking + +0:07:48.319,0:07:51.919 +so no we there are a lot of packages + +0:07:51.520,0:07:55.280 +that are + +0:07:51.919,0:07:58.479 +in melpa that we'd like to get into + +0:07:55.280,0:08:00.800 +non-canoe elpa i don't know the names of + +0:07:58.479,0:08:04.160 +most of them but i expect most of them + +0:08:00.800,0:08:07.680 +would be fine to have but they've got to + +0:08:04.160,0:08:07.680 +be looked at one by one + +0:08:08.560,0:08:14.479 +there are some rules for non-glpa + +0:08:12.000,0:08:18.000 +and the only way to check them is to + +0:08:14.479,0:08:22.160 +check them on one package at a time + +0:08:18.000,0:08:25.039 +and that's going to take effort + +0:08:22.160,0:08:26.080 +now with the people who work on melba + +0:08:25.039,0:08:29.440 +want to get involved + +0:08:26.080,0:08:32.800 +of this that would be great + +0:08:29.440,0:08:33.919 +i haven't tried asking them first we've + +0:08:32.800,0:08:37.599 +got to get this thing + +0:08:33.919,0:08:40.479 +set up i doubt they would want to + +0:08:37.599,0:08:42.959 +but if they said yes that would be + +0:08:40.479,0:08:42.959 +wonderful + +0:08:44.159,0:08:55.839 +uh any thoughts of packages being + +0:08:48.399,0:08:55.839 +added i'm afraid + +0:09:00.959,0:09:03.360 +um + +0:09:05.440,0:09:08.959 +i'm afraid any thoughts of packages + +0:09:07.200,0:09:11.040 +being added as + +0:09:08.959,0:09:13.120 +some url i don't know anything about but + +0:09:11.040,0:09:16.800 +it talks about open source + +0:09:13.120,0:09:17.680 +which means i'm very unlikely to have + +0:09:16.800,0:09:20.959 +much + +0:09:17.680,0:09:24.080 +in common with whatever they say about + +0:09:20.959,0:09:27.760 +either licensing or + +0:09:24.080,0:09:29.959 +what's right and wrong uh + +0:09:27.760,0:09:31.920 +but this seems to be something about + +0:09:29.959,0:09:35.680 +disregarding licenses + +0:09:31.920,0:09:39.360 +altogether well that is basically + +0:09:35.680,0:09:43.360 +asking to lose there are reasons + +0:09:39.360,0:09:45.600 +why we developed gnu licenses to release + +0:09:43.360,0:09:48.320 +software why we have criteria + +0:09:45.600,0:09:49.519 +for which licenses make a program free + +0:09:48.320,0:09:52.640 +software + +0:09:49.519,0:09:55.519 +if the program doesn't carry a license + +0:09:52.640,0:09:56.080 +or if it carries a non-free license that + +0:09:55.519,0:09:59.760 +program + +0:09:56.080,0:10:02.839 +is not free software now you can + +0:09:59.760,0:10:04.800 +maybe get away with disregarding that + +0:10:02.839,0:10:07.600 +fact uh unless + +0:10:04.800,0:10:08.959 +somebody an author or publisher stops + +0:10:07.600,0:10:11.360 +you + +0:10:08.959,0:10:12.399 +but we're not going to take we're not + +0:10:11.360,0:10:15.200 +basically going to + +0:10:12.399,0:10:16.399 +disregard the question of whether the + +0:10:15.200,0:10:19.040 +software we + +0:10:16.399,0:10:21.360 +recommend to people really is free + +0:10:19.040,0:10:24.560 +software or not + +0:10:21.360,0:10:27.519 +that's basically uh + +0:10:24.560,0:10:29.120 +blindfolding yourself to the legal + +0:10:27.519,0:10:30.480 +situation of the software you're + +0:10:29.120,0:10:33.519 +distributing + +0:10:30.480,0:10:35.920 +it's a terrible idea uh if they + +0:10:33.519,0:10:38.640 +disregard our licenses they will hear + +0:10:35.920,0:10:40.959 +from us about it + +0:10:38.640,0:10:42.720 +and if you want to contribute to the + +0:10:40.959,0:10:46.320 +free world + +0:10:42.720,0:10:48.640 +put free licenses on your code + +0:10:46.320,0:10:50.000 +and choose good ones to get this + +0:10:48.640,0:10:53.440 +information + +0:10:50.000,0:10:57.120 +look at gnu.org slash licensing + +0:10:53.440,0:10:59.839 +in particular slash licenses + +0:10:57.120,0:11:01.120 +and one page that input that's important + +0:10:59.839,0:11:05.040 +is license + +0:11:01.120,0:11:07.360 +dash recommendations.html + +0:11:05.040,0:11:09.279 +that's where we advise you on what + +0:11:07.360,0:11:11.360 +license we would recommend you use + +0:11:09.279,0:11:15.600 +depending on the circumstances + +0:11:11.360,0:11:20.160 +there's also license dash list dot html + +0:11:15.600,0:11:22.160 +which describes a lot of licenses and + +0:11:20.160,0:11:25.040 +says which ones are free + +0:11:22.160,0:11:26.160 +which ones are compatible with the new + +0:11:25.040,0:11:28.640 +gpl + +0:11:26.160,0:11:31.519 +it's really important to use only gpl + +0:11:28.640,0:11:34.320 +compatible licenses + +0:11:31.519,0:11:35.519 +so that the various programs can be + +0:11:34.320,0:11:40.480 +combined together + +0:11:35.519,0:11:40.480 +or linked and + +0:11:40.720,0:11:44.240 +you can also get other information about + +0:11:43.120,0:11:47.040 +gnu licenses + +0:11:44.240,0:11:49.680 +and the reasons why they are written the + +0:11:47.040,0:11:49.680 +way they are + +0:11:55.279,0:11:59.760 +oh sorry i don't see the next question + +0:12:03.200,0:12:07.519 +oh why do i insist on using per and + +0:12:05.600,0:12:11.680 +purrs + +0:12:07.519,0:12:14.959 +uh i'm not happy with using + +0:12:11.680,0:12:17.440 +they which is a plural pronoun with a + +0:12:14.959,0:12:20.480 +singular antecedent + +0:12:17.440,0:12:24.800 +it's bad because it causes + +0:12:20.480,0:12:28.639 +confusion that is completely gratuitous + +0:12:24.800,0:12:33.200 +many sentences become a lot of work + +0:12:28.639,0:12:36.480 +to parse and understand if you + +0:12:33.200,0:12:39.839 +add that ambiguity that source of him of + +0:12:36.480,0:12:42.720 +regular ambiguity now + +0:12:39.839,0:12:43.680 +i do not accept the demands of other + +0:12:42.720,0:12:47.519 +people + +0:12:43.680,0:12:50.800 +in regard to changing my grammar + +0:12:47.519,0:12:54.240 +you can try to convince me but + +0:12:50.800,0:12:55.440 +no one is entitled to give me orders + +0:12:54.240,0:12:58.880 +about that + +0:12:55.440,0:13:03.200 +or state their desires and expect + +0:12:58.880,0:13:06.560 +obedience not for me and not from you + +0:13:03.200,0:13:09.839 +or anyone we are all + +0:13:06.560,0:13:13.200 +equally entitled to decide + +0:13:09.839,0:13:18.000 +how we will speak and how we won't speak + +0:13:13.200,0:13:22.880 +now i've spelled out all of these points + +0:13:18.000,0:13:26.079 +in a file called stolman.org + +0:13:22.880,0:13:26.079 +articles slash + +0:13:30.120,0:13:33.760 +genderneutrality.html + +0:13:31.600,0:13:36.000 +of course this is not a gnu project + +0:13:33.760,0:13:40.800 +policy + +0:13:36.000,0:13:40.800 +it's my own personal ideas on the + +0:13:46.839,0:13:49.839 +subject + +0:13:53.920,0:14:01.040 +if any of you feels offended + +0:13:57.120,0:14:04.320 +by my referring to you with a singular + +0:14:01.040,0:14:07.680 +gender neutral pronoun feel free + +0:14:04.320,0:14:10.720 +to ex contact me privately + +0:14:07.680,0:14:14.000 +and explain to me your reasons + +0:14:10.720,0:14:16.639 +i will pay attention to them i'll + +0:14:14.000,0:14:18.399 +think about them assuming that they're + +0:14:16.639,0:14:24.079 +not something i've already + +0:14:18.399,0:14:27.760 +considered and decided to dismiss before + +0:14:24.079,0:14:30.240 +but you must not speak to me as if i had + +0:14:27.760,0:14:30.800 +no business not obeying you because + +0:14:30.240,0:14:34.320 +that's + +0:14:30.800,0:14:37.360 +rude and it is not likely to convince me + +0:14:34.320,0:14:37.360 +to change my mind + +0:14:40.720,0:14:48.320 +i believe it is not actually + +0:14:44.240,0:14:50.560 +of stating offense to anyone + +0:14:48.320,0:14:52.880 +and the fact that somebody disagrees + +0:14:50.560,0:14:59.839 +with me does not mean i'm wrong + +0:14:52.880,0:14:59.839 +but i always can be wrong + +0:15:00.720,0:15:05.680 +when you wrote that you could add a + +0:15:02.560,0:15:07.120 +package to non your new elpa + +0:15:05.680,0:15:09.199 +are you implying that you would add + +0:15:07.120,0:15:11.120 +packages with or without package + +0:15:09.199,0:15:15.279 +maintainers knowledge + +0:15:11.120,0:15:18.000 +of course the packages we would + +0:15:15.279,0:15:19.519 +we would distribute in this way are free + +0:15:18.000,0:15:21.920 +software + +0:15:19.519,0:15:22.720 +everyone is entitled to redistribute + +0:15:21.920,0:15:26.560 +them + +0:15:22.720,0:15:26.959 +and everyone is also entitled to modify + +0:15:26.560,0:15:29.199 +them + +0:15:26.959,0:15:31.680 +and redistribute them that's part of the + +0:15:29.199,0:15:35.040 +meaning of free software + +0:15:31.680,0:15:38.320 +i have been unable to understand + +0:15:35.040,0:15:42.560 +how there came to be an idea + +0:15:38.320,0:15:45.600 +that those who redistribute packages + +0:15:42.560,0:15:49.360 +have some idea to be mere + +0:15:45.600,0:15:54.480 +some obligation to be near mirrors + +0:15:49.360,0:15:58.560 +and not modify things themselves + +0:15:54.480,0:16:01.440 +well if a package is + +0:15:58.560,0:16:03.440 +being maintained by developers who are + +0:16:01.440,0:16:06.240 +cooperating with us + +0:16:03.440,0:16:07.360 +we'll normally just leave it to them + +0:16:06.240,0:16:10.079 +after all + +0:16:07.360,0:16:10.399 +we have lots of other work to do they + +0:16:10.079,0:16:14.000 +are + +0:16:10.399,0:16:15.600 +clearly experts on the packages they've + +0:16:14.000,0:16:18.399 +developed + +0:16:15.600,0:16:22.800 +let's leave it to them if they make that + +0:16:18.399,0:16:26.480 +sort of arrangement with us but + +0:16:22.800,0:16:29.120 +that's up to them we can't insist that + +0:16:26.480,0:16:30.720 +anyone make an arrangement with us + +0:16:29.120,0:16:33.279 +but since those programs are free + +0:16:30.720,0:16:36.639 +software anyone c is + +0:16:33.279,0:16:38.880 +free to redistribute them and we will do + +0:16:36.639,0:16:38.880 +that + +0:16:41.839,0:16:51.839 +have you ever used vi or vim or + +0:16:45.519,0:16:51.839 +evil mode no + +0:16:52.079,0:16:56.800 +are there any plans to implement + +0:16:53.920,0:17:00.720 +security considerations in non-gnu + +0:16:56.800,0:17:02.959 +elpa uh we probably + +0:17:00.720,0:17:04.959 +should and this will have to be + +0:17:02.959,0:17:08.559 +implemented + +0:17:04.959,0:17:12.000 +but at the moment + +0:17:08.559,0:17:13.280 +developer emacs maintainers will copy + +0:17:12.000,0:17:18.160 +packages + +0:17:13.280,0:17:20.160 +into it and so as long as they are + +0:17:18.160,0:17:22.480 +verifying the packages and getting the + +0:17:20.160,0:17:25.199 +packages from the right place + +0:17:22.480,0:17:25.919 +that will take care of the security once + +0:17:25.199,0:17:30.160 +there is + +0:17:25.919,0:17:33.200 +when with automatic copying in + +0:17:30.160,0:17:35.200 +will have to do something to + +0:17:33.200,0:17:38.480 +make sure that we're fetching the + +0:17:35.200,0:17:38.480 +packages securely + +0:17:40.320,0:17:44.000 +and uh some of you might be interested + +0:17:43.360,0:17:46.080 +in + +0:17:44.000,0:17:48.000 +helping to design and implement this + +0:17:46.080,0:17:52.559 +system + +0:17:48.000,0:17:56.720 +uh what distro do i use + +0:17:52.559,0:17:58.000 +uh well which distro of gnu slash linux + +0:17:56.720,0:18:01.840 +do i use + +0:17:58.000,0:18:01.840 +i use tree scale + +0:18:03.520,0:18:10.080 +i haven't tried most of the free distros + +0:18:07.200,0:18:11.120 +and the reason is it's not crucial that + +0:18:10.080,0:18:13.520 +i do so + +0:18:11.120,0:18:14.799 +we don't need me to rate the various + +0:18:13.520,0:18:17.520 +free distros on + +0:18:14.799,0:18:20.000 +practical questions because anyone can + +0:18:17.520,0:18:24.400 +do that as well as i can + +0:18:20.000,0:18:27.760 +and so you can tell people what + +0:18:24.400,0:18:29.360 +you think of using them for me what's + +0:18:27.760,0:18:32.400 +important to me + +0:18:29.360,0:18:34.160 +is to inform people of the difference + +0:18:32.400,0:18:36.799 +between the free distros + +0:18:34.160,0:18:38.799 +and the non-free distros making sure + +0:18:36.799,0:18:42.000 +people are aware that if you + +0:18:38.799,0:18:45.600 +install a non-free gnu slash linux + +0:18:42.000,0:18:46.720 +distro you'll get a free operating + +0:18:45.600,0:18:49.919 +system with + +0:18:46.720,0:18:54.160 +non-free stuff in various quantities + +0:18:49.919,0:18:56.240 +added thus you will not reach freedom + +0:18:54.160,0:18:57.520 +although you you'll make a lot of + +0:18:56.240,0:19:01.039 +progress compared + +0:18:57.520,0:19:03.919 +with using for instance windows or + +0:19:01.039,0:19:06.160 +mac os or whatever vicious thing it + +0:19:03.919,0:19:08.559 +might be + +0:19:06.160,0:19:09.760 +i'd like to i'd like to people to be + +0:19:08.559,0:19:12.799 +aware + +0:19:09.760,0:19:14.720 +of this next step towards + +0:19:12.799,0:19:16.160 +getting freedom for yourself and your + +0:19:14.720,0:19:24.480 +own computing + +0:19:16.160,0:19:26.799 +so that you can do that if you want to + +0:19:24.480,0:19:26.799 +uh + +0:19:29.039,0:19:32.799 +so who gets to make the final decision + +0:19:31.360,0:19:36.640 +regarding + +0:19:32.799,0:19:39.200 +non-gnu elpa the + +0:19:36.640,0:19:40.960 +emax maintainers are going to be in + +0:19:39.200,0:19:44.480 +charge of this + +0:19:40.960,0:19:47.760 +but because it's not + +0:19:44.480,0:19:51.360 +just a technical decision it has with + +0:19:47.760,0:19:54.960 +only technical consequences + +0:19:51.360,0:19:57.760 +but in general unless there's some + +0:19:54.960,0:20:00.720 +severe problem with the package we will + +0:19:57.760,0:20:00.720 +want to put it in + +0:20:03.600,0:20:07.440 +and i expect most packages won't have a + +0:20:06.400,0:20:09.919 +problem + +0:20:07.440,0:20:11.679 +and we can just put them in when we get + +0:20:09.919,0:20:15.919 +to them + +0:20:11.679,0:20:17.600 +won't the elpa link to non-free sites + +0:20:15.919,0:20:20.799 +like github + +0:20:17.600,0:20:24.320 +uh it's a mistake to talk about a + +0:20:20.799,0:20:24.320 +non-free site + +0:20:25.760,0:20:32.159 +because a site is not a program + +0:20:29.120,0:20:32.960 +a program is either free or non-free and + +0:20:32.159,0:20:36.480 +we have + +0:20:32.960,0:20:39.679 +clearly stated criteria for that in + +0:20:36.480,0:20:43.039 +gnu.org philosophy slash + +0:20:39.679,0:20:45.360 +free dash sw.html we have the free + +0:20:43.039,0:20:51.360 +software definition + +0:20:45.360,0:20:51.360 +but a site well their programs on it + +0:20:51.919,0:20:55.120 +but it doesn't make sense to ask whether + +0:20:54.000,0:20:58.000 +the site is + +0:20:55.120,0:20:58.880 +free or not it's too simplistic a + +0:20:58.000,0:21:02.000 +question + +0:20:58.880,0:21:05.679 +to have a meaningful answer now one + +0:21:02.000,0:21:08.799 +thing you can ask about is does the site + +0:21:05.679,0:21:11.760 +send javascript to the user's machine + +0:21:08.799,0:21:12.960 +to the user's browser and if so is that + +0:21:11.760,0:21:17.120 +javascript + +0:21:12.960,0:21:19.919 +non-free well github + +0:21:17.120,0:21:21.200 +does send non-free javascript for some + +0:21:19.919,0:21:24.240 +operations + +0:21:21.200,0:21:26.159 +so we consider it unsatisfactory as a + +0:21:24.240,0:21:29.600 +repository + +0:21:26.159,0:21:33.360 +but uh that doesn't mean linking to it + +0:21:29.600,0:21:34.720 +for is a bad thing to do regardless of + +0:21:33.360,0:21:36.640 +what the purpose is + +0:21:34.720,0:21:38.240 +for instance if the purpose is to refer + +0:21:36.640,0:21:40.799 +to some things + +0:21:38.240,0:21:42.880 +that you can access without running the + +0:21:40.799,0:21:47.039 +non-free javascript + +0:21:42.880,0:21:47.039 +then it's okay for that purpose + +0:21:47.200,0:21:52.559 +so if now that you understand the + +0:21:50.480,0:21:54.880 +details of this issue + +0:21:52.559,0:21:55.919 +you think that there is a problem with + +0:21:54.880,0:22:00.080 +the + +0:21:55.919,0:22:03.679 +link to camel there's + +0:22:00.080,0:22:06.799 +sorry a link in camel dot html + +0:22:03.679,0:22:10.880 +well report it to + +0:22:06.799,0:22:14.159 +uh bug gnu emax reported as an emacs bug + +0:22:10.880,0:22:15.840 +but do think about the criteria i've + +0:22:14.159,0:22:18.000 +just said because maybe it's not a + +0:22:15.840,0:22:21.840 +problem + +0:22:18.000,0:22:24.559 +is it okay to use the gnu of pharaoh gpl + +0:22:21.840,0:22:27.840 +for emax packages + +0:22:24.559,0:22:27.840 +yes it is + +0:22:28.880,0:22:32.080 +uh which is your favorite programming + +0:22:31.120,0:22:35.200 +language + +0:22:32.080,0:22:38.400 +if lisp which variant + +0:22:35.200,0:22:41.760 +well i don't exactly have a + +0:22:38.400,0:22:45.120 +favorite variant but + +0:22:41.760,0:22:47.520 +when i designed emacs lisp i + +0:22:45.120,0:22:48.799 +did the best thing i could think of at + +0:22:47.520,0:22:52.559 +the time + +0:22:48.799,0:22:55.520 +subject to the need to keep it small + +0:22:52.559,0:22:56.960 +for the first few years it was important + +0:22:55.520,0:22:59.840 +for gdu emacs + +0:22:56.960,0:23:00.799 +to run in a machine which could only + +0:22:59.840,0:23:04.480 +give it half + +0:23:00.799,0:23:06.559 +a meg of user space + +0:23:04.480,0:23:09.200 +so there are a lot of constructs that + +0:23:06.559,0:23:12.320 +clearly were desirable to include + +0:23:09.200,0:23:15.840 +that i left out because we could + +0:23:12.320,0:23:15.840 +make it work without them + +0:23:16.880,0:23:20.640 +and then a lot of those have been added + +0:23:18.960,0:23:23.200 +since because + +0:23:20.640,0:23:37.840 +it's been a long time since we needed to + +0:23:23.200,0:23:37.840 +keep emacs so rigorously small + +0:23:40.960,0:23:47.679 +um someone is + +0:23:44.240,0:23:51.360 +asking about the + +0:23:47.679,0:23:54.400 +fsf's repository project well + +0:23:51.360,0:23:55.440 +we agreed that there would be another + +0:23:54.400,0:23:59.919 +virtual machine + +0:23:55.440,0:24:05.840 +running one of those for the gnu project + +0:23:59.919,0:24:05.840 +but that's as far as the discussion went + +0:24:15.840,0:24:25.600 +question 17 is extremely insulting + +0:24:20.480,0:24:28.720 +i have not engaged in sexual harassment + +0:24:25.600,0:24:28.960 +don't expect me to plead guilty to such + +0:24:28.720,0:24:32.640 +a + +0:24:28.960,0:24:35.600 +nasty claim + +0:24:32.640,0:24:36.799 +people have been accusing me of many + +0:24:35.600,0:24:39.919 +things + +0:24:36.799,0:24:43.120 +some of which are + +0:24:39.919,0:24:46.559 +basically mole hills and some of which + +0:24:43.120,0:24:50.640 +are false so + +0:24:46.559,0:24:53.840 +uh i'm not going to give them + +0:24:50.640,0:24:56.400 +anything i have been bullied in a + +0:24:53.840,0:24:59.360 +horrible way + +0:24:56.400,0:24:59.360 +that was wrong + +0:24:59.679,0:25:03.520 +i would like the bullies to apologize to + +0:25:02.720,0:25:06.320 +me + +0:25:03.520,0:25:08.960 +and when i see that they're not bullying + +0:25:06.320,0:25:11.279 +i will forgive them + +0:25:08.960,0:25:14.799 +i would like to have conversations with + +0:25:11.279,0:25:17.840 +them if any of the mole hills + +0:25:14.799,0:25:20.880 +annoyed someone i'm happy to talk + +0:25:17.840,0:25:29.840 +with her and thus + +0:25:20.880,0:25:29.840 +uh help help resolve things with peace + +0:25:31.120,0:25:39.200 +and my opinion on + +0:25:35.120,0:25:42.720 +quote diversity within + +0:25:39.200,0:25:45.679 +emacs well emacs is + +0:25:42.720,0:25:46.480 +never going to be diverse it is extended + +0:25:45.679,0:25:49.760 +in + +0:25:46.480,0:25:53.279 +one language emacs lisp + +0:25:49.760,0:25:55.840 +well i don't know uh we did have an idea + +0:25:53.279,0:25:58.400 +of implementing extensibility using + +0:25:55.840,0:26:01.120 +scheme and the hope was that guile + +0:25:58.400,0:26:02.960 +could be integrated with emacs that + +0:26:01.120,0:26:05.279 +turned out to be difficult it may be + +0:26:02.960,0:26:07.520 +impossible but in principle + +0:26:05.279,0:26:11.039 +it might be a good thing that would be a + +0:26:07.520,0:26:14.960 +small amount of diversity + +0:26:11.039,0:26:16.960 +but it's not that important + +0:26:14.960,0:26:18.880 +what i think is really important for + +0:26:16.960,0:26:22.799 +developing emacs + +0:26:18.880,0:26:27.039 +is to make it do word processing + +0:26:22.799,0:26:30.080 +i sometimes use libra office + +0:26:27.039,0:26:32.799 +and yeah i can make it do things + +0:26:30.080,0:26:34.880 +it has features for wysiwyg which are + +0:26:32.799,0:26:38.000 +very nice + +0:26:34.880,0:26:40.400 +but it's in other regards + +0:26:38.000,0:26:42.400 +it's not emacs and it doesn't have the + +0:26:40.400,0:26:45.520 +abilities of emacs + +0:26:42.400,0:26:45.520 +and it should + +0:26:45.600,0:26:49.039 +so i urge people to work on extending + +0:26:48.400,0:26:51.600 +emacs + +0:26:49.039,0:27:07.840 +in that direction adding the features + +0:26:51.600,0:27:07.840 +that a word processor has to have + +0:27:13.600,0:27:21.679 +the last question i can answer is + +0:27:16.640,0:27:24.960 +18 but yes it's a very sad thing + +0:27:21.679,0:27:28.399 +how many companies + +0:27:24.960,0:27:33.200 +insist on using non-free software + +0:27:28.399,0:27:36.799 +well i would get a different kind of job + +0:27:33.200,0:27:40.320 +that's a decision i made many years ago + +0:27:36.799,0:27:42.799 +early in the gnu project + +0:27:40.320,0:27:47.440 +i decided i would not first i would not + +0:27:42.799,0:27:47.440 +get a job developing non-free software + +0:27:47.679,0:27:54.880 +and later on i decided + +0:27:50.960,0:27:57.120 +once i could stop using non-free + +0:27:54.880,0:28:00.799 +software that is once we had + +0:27:57.120,0:28:05.679 +a gnu slash linux system that we could + +0:28:00.799,0:28:05.679 +switch over to and uh + +0:28:08.320,0:28:16.240 +oh wait i thought i thought magic wand + +0:28:11.679,0:28:20.080 +time meant it was time to stop + +0:28:16.240,0:28:20.080 +but now i rather ask the question + +0:28:21.039,0:28:23.279 +uh + +0:28:27.760,0:28:35.679 +so what do you do well if i were you + +0:28:32.480,0:28:37.440 +i'd probably not work for any of those + +0:28:35.679,0:28:39.679 +companies + +0:28:37.440,0:28:40.799 +if i needed to make money i'd get a job + +0:28:39.679,0:28:43.840 +but i get some + +0:28:40.799,0:28:48.080 +other kind of job + +0:28:43.840,0:28:51.039 +that didn't involve using software + +0:28:48.080,0:28:53.600 +i would or that let me choose the + +0:28:51.039,0:28:56.880 +software i would use + +0:28:53.600,0:28:58.000 +but i would live cheaply you know the + +0:28:56.880,0:29:00.640 +less you spend + +0:28:58.000,0:29:01.120 +the less you need to make and the more + +0:29:00.640,0:29:04.720 +time + +0:29:01.120,0:29:07.200 +you can take away from your paid work + +0:29:04.720,0:29:08.640 +and the more flexibility you have in + +0:29:07.200,0:29:13.039 +which paid work + +0:29:08.640,0:29:16.399 +you can do being in a position + +0:29:13.039,0:29:19.919 +to say no to avoid being + +0:29:16.399,0:29:19.919 +desperate to say yes + +0:29:23.679,0:29:31.200 +uh strengthens your position + +0:29:27.440,0:29:33.279 +and you need that one way you can help + +0:29:31.200,0:29:36.559 +do that is by + +0:29:33.279,0:29:38.960 +not having children now that is a + +0:29:36.559,0:29:41.760 +tangent but it can't be denied that + +0:29:38.960,0:29:42.399 +raising children is very expensive i + +0:29:41.760,0:29:45.559 +have heard + +0:29:42.399,0:29:48.080 +many people say that they are + +0:29:45.559,0:29:50.880 +uncomfortable with their jobs + +0:29:48.080,0:29:52.240 +but they have to do those jobs to make + +0:29:50.880,0:29:55.440 +enough money + +0:29:52.240,0:29:59.120 +to support their children + +0:29:55.440,0:30:01.520 +well think about that be aware + +0:29:59.120,0:30:04.720 +that's likely to happen to you before + +0:30:01.520,0:30:04.720 +you make that decision + +0:30:06.159,0:30:09.840 +what would i + +0:30:10.000,0:30:16.960 +what would i change about free software + +0:30:13.279,0:30:20.880 +well since this is + +0:30:16.960,0:30:25.600 +magic i would magically find + +0:30:20.880,0:30:28.000 +a way of showing everyone why + +0:30:25.600,0:30:29.679 +most free software needs to be copy + +0:30:28.000,0:30:32.480 +lifted + +0:30:29.679,0:30:34.880 +so that our community would not + +0:30:32.480,0:30:38.640 +basically + +0:30:34.880,0:30:41.360 +submit to abuse by proprietary software + +0:30:38.640,0:30:41.360 +developers + +0:30:45.919,0:30:53.279 +of course i could go further if i could + +0:30:49.760,0:30:55.760 +magically recruit a hundred thousand + +0:30:53.279,0:30:57.919 +good programmers to do lots of work + +0:30:55.760,0:31:01.039 +improving free software + +0:30:57.919,0:31:03.279 +we might well if we could do this 20 + +0:31:01.039,0:31:06.559 +years ago we might have wiped out + +0:31:03.279,0:31:07.200 +non-free systems and then we wouldn't + +0:31:06.559,0:31:10.320 +have had + +0:31:07.200,0:31:14.480 +horrible things like + +0:31:10.320,0:31:18.000 +world wide web drm that + +0:31:14.480,0:31:20.480 +no one has the courage to resist + +0:31:18.000,0:31:22.640 +if they're desperately trying to get + +0:31:20.480,0:31:26.240 +money for anything + +0:31:22.640,0:31:29.519 +and if they need approval of companies + +0:31:26.240,0:31:32.960 +of the big companies that push for drm + +0:31:29.519,0:31:36.720 +uh then they don't dare even resist as + +0:31:32.960,0:31:36.720 +much as they can resist + +0:31:38.240,0:31:43.200 +and look what happened to the world wide + +0:31:40.880,0:31:47.279 +web consortium + +0:31:43.200,0:31:50.399 +uh they surrendered blatantly + +0:31:47.279,0:31:54.399 +and ignominiously by + +0:31:50.399,0:31:54.399 +endorsing the drm system + +0:31:55.760,0:32:00.880 +so what can you do i don't have a magic + +0:31:59.600,0:32:04.720 +wand + +0:32:00.880,0:32:06.559 +i'm a human being with the capabilities + +0:32:04.720,0:32:09.919 +i have + +0:32:06.559,0:32:12.840 +but the advantage of + +0:32:09.919,0:32:14.000 +great firmness in campaigning for free + +0:32:12.840,0:32:18.240 +software + +0:32:14.000,0:32:23.200 +and this enables me to do things + +0:32:18.240,0:32:23.200 +that no one else will do + +0:32:27.679,0:32:31.519 +what tools from pre unix days do you + +0:32:30.480,0:32:34.240 +miss + +0:32:31.519,0:32:34.880 +well i don't i don't think about them + +0:32:34.240,0:32:38.640 +with + +0:32:34.880,0:32:42.080 +missing them actually but + +0:32:38.640,0:32:46.240 +it was sort of nice to have + +0:32:42.080,0:32:49.600 +ddt as your login shell + +0:32:46.240,0:32:52.640 +so in using modern terminology + +0:32:49.600,0:32:55.519 +because that meant at any time you could + +0:32:52.640,0:32:57.519 +stop a program lotus debugging symbols + +0:32:55.519,0:32:58.799 +and start examining the data in the + +0:32:57.519,0:33:01.519 +instructions + +0:32:58.799,0:33:03.039 +you could debug it that way and then you + +0:33:01.519,0:33:06.720 +could even + +0:33:03.039,0:33:09.760 +patch in instructions to continue + +0:33:06.720,0:33:11.600 +running that job with the bug fixed + +0:33:09.760,0:33:13.919 +in fact you could even do this with the + +0:33:11.600,0:33:16.640 +system kernel + +0:33:13.919,0:33:17.840 +so that your jobs wouldn't get lost i + +0:33:16.640,0:33:20.559 +did that + +0:33:17.840,0:33:22.720 +quite a few times of course sometimes i + +0:33:20.559,0:33:25.919 +saw what was wrong and i just had to + +0:33:22.720,0:33:28.240 +fix a piece of data but sometimes + +0:33:25.919,0:33:29.679 +it took me a long time to figure out how + +0:33:28.240,0:33:32.480 +to get the system to + +0:33:29.679,0:33:34.240 +keep on going but with the work i had + +0:33:32.480,0:33:39.279 +done + +0:33:34.240,0:33:41.600 +i didn't want to lose that work + +0:33:39.279,0:33:43.039 +and so one of the first features i put + +0:33:41.600,0:33:45.840 +into gdu emacs was + +0:33:43.039,0:33:45.840 +auto save + +0:33:47.760,0:33:54.320 +uh i'm not going to try to figure out + +0:33:50.640,0:33:56.480 +which packages i re i actually used + +0:33:54.320,0:33:59.039 +uh if i knew i would get hit by a bus + +0:33:56.480,0:34:02.320 +tomorrow + +0:33:59.039,0:34:05.039 +uh say because of a fortune teller + +0:34:02.320,0:34:06.240 +no a fortune teller doesn't give you any + +0:34:05.039,0:34:10.159 +knowledge it's just + +0:34:06.240,0:34:13.760 +superstitious uh hand waving + +0:34:10.159,0:34:16.480 +so assuming that i + +0:34:13.760,0:34:18.879 +talked that i got a reading from a + +0:34:16.480,0:34:23.119 +fortune teller which is + +0:34:18.879,0:34:25.040 +implausible enough to begin with uh + +0:34:23.119,0:34:28.320 +that wouldn't give me any knowledge + +0:34:25.040,0:34:32.879 +about what was going to happen to me + +0:34:28.320,0:34:34.960 +oh by the way fortune tellers generally + +0:34:32.879,0:34:36.879 +play back to you facts that they've + +0:34:34.960,0:34:40.480 +discovered about you + +0:34:36.879,0:34:43.440 +together with cold reading which means + +0:34:40.480,0:34:44.639 +they say things calculated to make it + +0:34:43.440,0:34:49.119 +appear that they know + +0:34:44.639,0:34:52.399 +more than they do or things that are + +0:34:49.119,0:34:55.679 +uh that sound wise to anyone + +0:34:52.399,0:34:58.800 +so you can say the same thing to + +0:34:55.679,0:35:02.000 +uh say 100 people + +0:34:58.800,0:35:05.359 +and 80 or 90 of them will say boy that + +0:35:02.000,0:35:05.359 +was really accurate + +0:35:06.480,0:35:14.880 +but what if for some reason + +0:35:10.400,0:35:14.880 +uh about + +0:35:15.119,0:35:18.560 +what what advice would i give for + +0:35:17.440,0:35:22.079 +stewardship of + +0:35:18.560,0:35:25.359 +emacs well basically + +0:35:22.079,0:35:28.480 +focus on + +0:35:25.359,0:35:29.280 +keeping the community strong in + +0:35:28.480,0:35:32.640 +defending + +0:35:29.280,0:35:34.400 +freedom if you have a choice between + +0:35:32.640,0:35:36.079 +keeping the community strong in + +0:35:34.400,0:35:38.800 +defending freedom + +0:35:36.079,0:35:40.720 +and getting more people to participate + +0:35:38.800,0:35:43.839 +in the development + +0:35:40.720,0:35:44.400 +you've got to choose the freedom it is + +0:35:43.839,0:35:48.400 +very + +0:35:44.400,0:35:52.320 +easy for free software projects to + +0:35:48.400,0:35:55.359 +subordinate freedom to other criteria + +0:35:52.320,0:35:58.079 +and once that happens it's + +0:35:55.359,0:35:58.720 +easy for those who don't care much about + +0:35:58.079,0:36:00.800 +freedom + +0:35:58.720,0:36:02.640 +such as sometimes companies that might + +0:36:00.800,0:36:08.160 +offer you some money + +0:36:02.640,0:36:10.560 +to purchase your soul + +0:36:08.160,0:36:14.240 +not that there are really things that + +0:36:10.560,0:36:16.560 +exist called souls it's a metaphor but + +0:36:14.240,0:36:18.800 +it's an important metaphor for something + +0:36:16.560,0:36:20.880 +important + +0:36:18.800,0:36:24.320 +people in the community have to be + +0:36:20.880,0:36:27.280 +thinking about freedom + +0:36:24.320,0:36:30.240 +when they make decisions about what is + +0:36:27.280,0:36:30.240 +wise to do + +0:36:31.839,0:36:39.839 +the decision to devel to set up non-glpa + +0:36:36.480,0:36:41.520 +has a drawback it was a compromise now a + +0:36:39.839,0:36:44.560 +lot of people will + +0:36:41.520,0:36:46.240 +tell you that i am uncompromising and + +0:36:44.560,0:36:48.720 +say that that's a flaw + +0:36:46.240,0:36:50.320 +well they're wrong i make little + +0:36:48.720,0:36:53.040 +compromises + +0:36:50.320,0:36:55.359 +very often and occasionally i make a + +0:36:53.040,0:36:58.880 +medium-sized compromise + +0:36:55.359,0:36:59.359 +the compromise is in the past we wanted + +0:36:58.880,0:37:01.599 +to get + +0:36:59.359,0:37:02.400 +copyright assignments for the packages + +0:37:01.599,0:37:06.240 +in gnu + +0:37:02.400,0:37:09.119 +elpa so that we could move them into + +0:37:06.240,0:37:11.200 +core emacs and of course sometimes we + +0:37:09.119,0:37:14.480 +move packages in the other direction + +0:37:11.200,0:37:16.160 +that way we are where we distribute a + +0:37:14.480,0:37:18.160 +given package + +0:37:16.160,0:37:20.720 +is something we can decide purely + +0:37:18.160,0:37:20.720 +technically + +0:37:20.880,0:37:26.800 +and however make insisting on getting + +0:37:25.200,0:37:28.640 +copyright assignments for all the + +0:37:26.800,0:37:32.079 +packages in gnu elpa + +0:37:28.640,0:37:35.119 +meant that we had to say sorry no + +0:37:32.079,0:37:38.560 +we will not install that packages in + +0:37:35.119,0:37:41.520 +packaging dewey lpa unless the + +0:37:38.560,0:37:44.079 +authors sign copyright assignments and + +0:37:41.520,0:37:47.520 +sometimes that's a lot of trouble + +0:37:44.079,0:37:50.160 +well non-glpa + +0:37:47.520,0:37:51.520 +won't require copyright assignments if + +0:37:50.160,0:37:54.560 +there's a free package + +0:37:51.520,0:37:57.200 +we can make whatever changes presumably + +0:37:54.560,0:38:00.560 +small otherwise we would probably say + +0:37:57.200,0:38:04.560 +we don't have time but and then + +0:38:00.560,0:38:05.599 +put it in but it does have the drawback + +0:38:04.560,0:38:07.680 +that + +0:38:05.599,0:38:09.119 +we in general we won't be able to move + +0:38:07.680,0:38:12.960 +those packages + +0:38:09.119,0:38:14.960 +into core emacs without + +0:38:12.960,0:38:19.839 +getting the legal papers then that we + +0:38:14.960,0:38:19.839 +didn't get before + +0:38:20.160,0:38:27.599 +how do you see the future of gdu emacs + +0:38:24.320,0:38:29.839 +uh i don't see the future + +0:38:27.599,0:38:31.680 +i used to say that my crystal ball is + +0:38:29.839,0:38:35.680 +cloudy today + +0:38:31.680,0:38:39.040 +unfortunately that has another + +0:38:35.680,0:38:41.200 +meaning which is quite ironic uh we + +0:38:39.040,0:38:44.800 +certainly don't want + +0:38:41.200,0:38:48.480 +our lives to be + +0:38:44.800,0:38:51.119 +somewhere in a cloud because + +0:38:48.480,0:38:51.599 +that clouds your mind and then people + +0:38:51.119,0:38:54.240 +start + +0:38:51.599,0:38:56.880 +cheating you and taking advantage of you + +0:38:54.240,0:39:00.160 +and it's horrible + +0:38:56.880,0:39:02.720 +but uh i don't see the future i just + +0:39:00.160,0:39:03.839 +can be sure from the past that there + +0:39:02.720,0:39:07.599 +will be + +0:39:03.839,0:39:10.720 +challenges where some of the people + +0:39:07.599,0:39:12.960 +involved want to make a big compromise + +0:39:10.720,0:39:16.880 +that isn't worth it + +0:39:12.960,0:39:18.079 +and they some they may even get the + +0:39:16.880,0:39:21.200 +impression that it's + +0:39:18.079,0:39:24.480 +up to them well actually + +0:39:21.200,0:39:27.440 +emacs has appointed maintainers just as + +0:39:24.480,0:39:29.280 +every gdu package does and they are the + +0:39:27.440,0:39:30.480 +ones in charge of developing that + +0:39:29.280,0:39:34.400 +package + +0:39:30.480,0:39:38.200 +and this is for a good reason + +0:39:34.400,0:39:39.760 +because the appointed maintainers take + +0:39:38.200,0:39:42.240 +responsibility + +0:39:39.760,0:39:44.079 +to carry out the gnu project policies + +0:39:42.240,0:39:46.160 +and most important of all + +0:39:44.079,0:39:47.520 +are the ones that make the whole system + +0:39:46.160,0:39:52.160 +work together + +0:39:47.520,0:39:52.160 +and the ethical standards + +0:39:52.640,0:39:57.839 +to respect freedom and defend freedom + +0:39:59.920,0:40:04.960 +is there any plan to move more packages + +0:40:02.240,0:40:08.480 +from core emacs into elpa + +0:40:04.960,0:40:11.440 +uh i don't know uh + +0:40:08.480,0:40:12.720 +whether there is a plan i suppose if + +0:40:11.440,0:40:15.680 +there's a plan + +0:40:12.720,0:40:16.960 +we probably would have done it if there + +0:40:15.680,0:40:19.839 +had been a plan + +0:40:16.960,0:40:20.319 +some have been moved i don't see this as + +0:40:19.839,0:40:22.400 +a + +0:40:20.319,0:40:24.160 +fundamentally important issue it's a + +0:40:22.400,0:40:26.640 +matter of what's convenient for + +0:40:24.160,0:40:29.599 +the users and their advantages and + +0:40:26.640,0:40:32.800 +disadvantages to each choice + +0:40:29.599,0:40:35.760 +what is your opinion on higher education + +0:40:32.800,0:40:36.720 +uh requiring non-free software for + +0:40:35.760,0:40:40.400 +instance + +0:40:36.720,0:40:43.440 +well i wouldn't i wouldn't + +0:40:40.400,0:40:49.119 +matriculate in a school which did that + +0:40:43.440,0:40:49.119 +unless i saw a way i could refuse + +0:40:50.960,0:40:57.760 +now of course i do this + +0:40:54.960,0:41:00.240 +because i can get away with it and + +0:40:57.760,0:41:04.960 +therefore my doing it is extremely + +0:41:00.240,0:41:08.400 +important to show somebody does resist + +0:41:04.960,0:41:09.359 +i don't expect most people who support + +0:41:08.400,0:41:12.319 +free school + +0:41:09.359,0:41:13.599 +who advocate free software to go that + +0:41:12.319,0:41:17.760 +far + +0:41:13.599,0:41:21.040 +uh i published an article in the spring + +0:41:17.760,0:41:24.640 +entitled saying no even once + +0:41:21.040,0:41:25.359 +is helping saying no to non-free + +0:41:24.640,0:41:29.040 +software + +0:41:25.359,0:41:32.240 +even once because + +0:41:29.040,0:41:34.640 +the more you do it the more you help but + +0:41:32.240,0:41:36.640 +even doing it a little in a way that + +0:41:34.640,0:41:39.920 +other people notice + +0:41:36.640,0:41:43.440 +is starting to help so + +0:41:39.920,0:41:45.119 +uh please don't think that your choices + +0:41:43.440,0:41:48.480 +are either + +0:41:45.119,0:41:52.240 +be as firm and stubborn as i am + +0:41:48.480,0:41:56.240 +or just give up and let yourself drift + +0:41:52.240,0:41:58.079 +helplessly as if you had no volition + +0:41:56.240,0:42:00.720 +there are a lot of points in between + +0:41:58.079,0:42:04.079 +there and you can surely + +0:42:00.720,0:42:07.839 +manage to say no some of the time + +0:42:04.079,0:42:11.040 +and show people an example of saying no + +0:42:07.839,0:42:12.720 +some of the time for instance you could + +0:42:11.040,0:42:15.520 +say to people + +0:42:12.720,0:42:16.000 +you know i hate the fact that my school + +0:42:15.520,0:42:20.400 +makes me + +0:42:16.000,0:42:22.240 +use zoom uh so whenever + +0:42:20.400,0:42:24.640 +i'm not being forced i'm not going to + +0:42:22.240,0:42:24.640 +use it + +0:42:25.760,0:42:31.200 +or i hate the fact that the only way i + +0:42:29.200,0:42:35.200 +can talk to that group of people + +0:42:31.200,0:42:38.400 +is resume but when + +0:42:35.200,0:42:40.079 +but for anything else i will feel better + +0:42:38.400,0:42:42.880 +about myself if i don't + +0:42:40.079,0:42:44.000 +see lots of ways to say no some of the + +0:42:42.880,0:42:47.040 +time + +0:42:44.000,0:42:50.960 +and yield some of the time + +0:42:47.040,0:42:53.920 +and when you try saying no occasionally + +0:42:50.960,0:42:56.400 +you may just develop the ability to say + +0:42:53.920,0:42:58.800 +no more often + +0:42:56.400,0:43:00.640 +now whether you would ever get to be as + +0:42:58.800,0:43:04.480 +stubborn as i am + +0:43:00.640,0:43:08.480 +i don't know but what i find is that + +0:43:04.480,0:43:12.480 +i like the fact that i've never made + +0:43:08.480,0:43:15.839 +this kind of compromise + +0:43:12.480,0:43:19.319 +i feel i have a reputation to maintain + +0:43:15.839,0:43:21.119 +nobody's forcing me but i get + +0:43:19.319,0:43:24.319 +satisfaction + +0:43:21.119,0:43:26.400 +out of maintaining out of being able to + +0:43:24.319,0:43:29.280 +continue to say + +0:43:26.400,0:43:29.280 +i will not + +0:43:30.880,0:43:40.480 +you are now unmuted and that also + +0:43:34.480,0:43:43.520 +can happen at various different levels + +0:43:40.480,0:43:46.640 +so you can get that satisfaction + +0:43:43.520,0:43:54.400 +of fully maintaining a refusal + +0:43:46.640,0:43:57.040 +that applies only to certain areas + +0:43:54.400,0:43:58.880 +citizens uh noon already let's maybe + +0:43:57.040,0:43:59.599 +take one or two more questions and then + +0:43:58.880,0:44:03.200 +break for + +0:43:59.599,0:44:06.000 +the lunch break okay thank you + +0:44:03.200,0:44:07.440 +how often do you personally use emacs as + +0:44:06.000,0:44:10.640 +the + +0:44:07.440,0:44:14.960 +lowest question now uh + +0:44:10.640,0:44:14.960 +well i use it most of the day + +0:44:16.640,0:44:20.160 +i occasionally do use other things in + +0:44:18.880,0:44:21.599 +fact i occasionally edit with + +0:44:20.160,0:44:24.240 +libreoffice + +0:44:21.599,0:44:25.280 +i occasionally use media players i + +0:44:24.240,0:44:27.520 +occasionally + +0:44:25.280,0:44:27.520 +uh + +0:44:29.040,0:44:34.000 +i occasionally ssh to a machine and type + +0:44:32.480,0:44:35.440 +some commands on it + +0:44:34.000,0:44:38.240 +which occasionally includes running + +0:44:35.440,0:44:38.240 +emacs on it + +0:44:42.319,0:44:47.520 +i read pdf files a lot + +0:44:45.760,0:44:49.599 +would be nice if you could get those + +0:44:47.520,0:44:52.240 +into emacs so that i could read them + +0:44:49.599,0:44:55.040 +with emacs commands + +0:44:52.240,0:44:56.160 +and i maybe even edit them with the max + +0:44:55.040,0:44:59.440 +commands + +0:44:56.160,0:45:02.960 +when they can be edited i use + +0:44:59.440,0:45:07.680 +uh journal sometimes + +0:45:02.960,0:45:07.680 +to write on a pdf file + +0:45:10.079,0:45:13.760 +are there any more interesting projects + +0:45:12.160,0:45:18.400 +you have in mind over and above + +0:45:13.760,0:45:22.079 +non-gnu elpa uh + +0:45:18.400,0:45:25.520 +i can't think of one right now well + +0:45:22.079,0:45:27.119 +there are things there are things that + +0:45:25.520,0:45:30.560 +the gnu project needs + +0:45:27.119,0:45:32.319 +doing there are packages that don't have + +0:45:30.560,0:45:35.839 +maintainers or could use + +0:45:32.319,0:45:38.880 +more maintainers uh + +0:45:35.839,0:45:42.000 +talk with maintainers at canoe.org + +0:45:38.880,0:45:44.960 +and the assistant candusences will + +0:45:42.000,0:45:47.839 +help you find a package where you can do + +0:45:44.960,0:45:47.839 +good + +0:45:48.400,0:45:52.079 +not for beginners though you got to get + +0:45:50.560,0:45:55.599 +you got to learn + +0:45:52.079,0:45:58.160 +uh a substantive substantial level of + +0:45:55.599,0:45:59.440 +capacity to develop and debug programs + +0:45:58.160,0:46:02.800 +before you can + +0:45:59.440,0:46:04.480 +be a maintainer uh have i ever looked at + +0:46:02.800,0:46:08.400 +maggot + +0:46:04.480,0:46:11.920 +uh no i haven't + +0:46:08.400,0:46:14.880 +but i believe + +0:46:11.920,0:46:16.560 +work is being done to get it put into + +0:46:14.880,0:46:21.200 +emacs + +0:46:16.560,0:46:21.200 +and at that point i'll give it a try + +0:46:22.240,0:46:25.760 +i do not want to share my configuration + +0:46:25.200,0:46:29.520 +files + +0:46:25.760,0:46:33.599 +they're personal but + +0:46:29.520,0:46:36.880 +how about if we end this now + +0:46:33.599,0:46:38.880 +you are now unmuted sounds good to me + +0:46:36.880,0:46:41.520 +thank you very much richard for joining + +0:46:38.880,0:46:43.839 +in for live questions + +0:46:41.520,0:46:43.839 +okay + |