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diff --git a/2020/info/39.md b/2020/info/39.md index 11d264d6..32b06cb7 100644 --- a/2020/info/39.md +++ b/2020/info/39.md @@ -1,12 +1,14 @@ # NonGNU ELPA Richard Stallman -[[!template id=vid src="https://mirror.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/emacsconf/2020/emacsconf-2020--39-nongnu-elpa--richard-stallman.webm" size="282M" subtitles="/2020/subtitles/emacsconf-2020--39-nongnu-elpa--richard-stallman.vtt" duration="6:56"]] -[Download compressed .webm video (20.8M)](https://mirror.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/emacsconf/2020/smaller/emacsconf-2020--39-nongnu-elpa--richard-stallman--vp9-q56-video-original-audio.webm) +[[!template id=vid vidid="mainVideo" src="https://mirror.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/emacsconf/2020/emacsconf-2020--39-nongnu-elpa--richard-stallman.webm" size="282M" subtitles="/2020/subtitles/emacsconf-2020--39-nongnu-elpa--richard-stallman.vtt" duration="6:56"]] +[Download compressed .webm video (72.9M)](https://media.emacsconf.org/2020/emacsconf-2020--39-nongnu-elpa--richard-stallman--compressed32.webm) +[Download compressed .webm video (20.8M, highly compressed)](https://mirror.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/emacsconf/2020/smaller/emacsconf-2020--39-nongnu-elpa--richard-stallman--vp9-q56-video-original-audio.webm) [View transcript](#transcript) [[!template id=vid src="https://mirror.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/emacsconf/2020/emacsconf-2020--39-nongnu-elpa--questions--richard-stallman.webm" size="470M" subtitles="/2020/subtitles/emacsconf-2020--39-nongnu-elpa--questions--richard-stallman.vtt" duration="46:42" download="Download Q&A video"]] -[Download compressed Q&A .webm video (44M)](https://mirror.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/emacsconf/2020/smaller/emacsconf-2020--39-nongnu-elpa--questions--richard-stallman--vp9-q56-video-original-audio.webm) +[Download compressed Q&A .webm video (0)](https://media.emacsconf.org/2020/emacsconf-2020--39-nongnu-elpa--questions--richard-stallman--compressed32.webm) +[Download compressed Q&A .webm video (44M, highly compressed)](https://mirror.csclub.uwaterloo.ca/emacsconf/2020/smaller/emacsconf-2020--39-nongnu-elpa--questions--richard-stallman--vp9-q56-video-original-audio.webm) [View transcript for Q&A](#transcript-questions) <!-- from the pad ---> @@ -238,83 +240,131 @@ them fit in. <a name="transcript"></a> # Transcript -Hello, I'm Richard Stallman, founder of the GNU project. In 1976, I -developed the first Emacs editor with some help from Guy Steele. -Then, shortly after starting to develop the GNU operating system in -1984, I wanted an Emacs editor for it. So I started writing GNU Emacs -in September 1984. - -(00:29) Several years ago we decided to move many of the Emacs Lisp -packages outside the core Emacs distribution into a separate package -archive that we call the Emacs Lisp package archive ELPA. There were -two main reasons for this. One is to make the Emacs distribution -smaller so every user wouldn't have to get all the packages and -install all the packages. And the other reason was to make it possible -to release individual packages separately from Emacs releases. - -(01:08) Now, at that point somehow we decided to support loading -packages from a variety of different Emacs Lisp package archives and -ours would be called the GNU ELPA, but ELPA could be any other. Now, I -think that naming was a mistake. We should have meant, we should have -decided that ELPA referred to our package archive and any other -package archive should be called some other name. Oh, well! Uh this is -a mistake I believe, because it leads to a lot of confusion it would -have been clearer if we had uh used the other naming. - -(01:55) Because the difference between having a package in core Emacs -and having it in GNU ELPA, is purely a practical convenience matter. -Convenience of distribution and convenience of maintenance. We wanted -to be able to move packages between the two whenever that was -convenient. So, to make that possible we insisted on getting copyright -assignments for packages in GNU ELPA just the same way we do for -packages in core Emacs. - -(02:31) Having the facility for installing packages from package -archives, led to a tremendous boost in the development and release of -Emacs packages. Unfortunately there was a problem with the way that -was done. For the most part, the developers of these packages wouldn't -even tell us about them. They posted them in another package archive -where we didn't know about them and (where they) no attempt was made -to try to fit them into Emacs so that they could make sense as parts -of the Emacs distribution. This led to both moral problems, packages -that depended on non-free software in order to be usable and technical -problems because the developers of those packages didn't coordinate -with us about how to make it useful and convenient and clean to have -them in Emacs. - -(03:36) So, the idea of NonGNU ELPA is an effort to smooth these -things out. The fundamental plan of NonGNU ELPA is that, we won't ask -for copyright assignments for those packages. So, we won't be able to -put them into core Emacs; at least not easily, but we will have some -control over how we distribute them. We can put any package into -NonGNU ELPA as long as it's free software. If we like it we can set up -that way for users to get it. We could put the package in exactly as -it is if there's no problem at all with it. We can make an arrangement -with the package's developers to work on it with us and maintain it -directly for distribution by NonGNU ELPA but if they are not -interested we can put it in ourselves and if we need to make any -changes we can do so. - -(04:52) So, NonGNU ELPA is not meant to be just a way that others can -distribute their packages. It's meant at least in a minimal technical -sense to work with GNU Emacs, and we'll make changes if necessary so -that it works smoothly with Emacs. And this means that we're going to -maintain it differently from GNU ELPA. Well, GNU ELPA is hosted in a -way that is actually rather inconvenient. It is one single Git -repository. And so anybody that has access to write it can write any -part of it. There are many different packages in there maintained by -different people, and we have no way to give each one of them access -to per own package and not to the others. Well, with NonGNU ELPA we -plan to fix that. The idea is to have a single Git repository where -you can download various packages from. But, they won't be maintained -there. Each of those packages will be copied automatically from some -other place. Probably some other repository where the right people -have access to work on it. And this way we can avoid giving a gigantic -number of people access to every part of it. So far NonGNU ELPA is -just a plan, we need people to implement the plan. So, if you would -like to help please write to me. I think this is a very important step -for progress and it's got to be implemented. Thanks and happy hacking! - +[[!template new="1" text="Hello, I'm Richard Stallman," start="00:00:00.320" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="founder of the GNU project." start="00:00:03.280" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="In 1976, I developed the first" start="00:00:07.816" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="Emacs editor with some help" start="00:00:09.200" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="from Guy Steele." start="00:00:12.320" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="Then, shortly after starting to develop" start="00:00:13.440" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="the GNU operating system in 1984," start="00:00:15.839" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="I wanted an Emacs editor for it." start="00:00:19.119" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="So I started writing GNU Emacs in September 1984." start="00:00:22.240" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template new="1" text="Several years ago we decided to move" start="00:00:29.519" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="many of the Emacs Lisp packages outside" start="00:00:32.640" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="the core Emacs distribution into" start="00:00:35.920" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="a separate package archive that we call the Emacs Lisp package archive ELPA." start="00:00:39.866" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="There were two main reasons for this." start="00:00:46.480" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="One is to make the Emacs distribution smaller" start="00:00:49.555" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="so every user wouldn't have to" start="00:00:51.520" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="get all the packages" start="00:00:54.870" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="and install all the packages." start="00:00:55.680" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="And the other reason was to make it possible to" start="00:00:58.820" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="release individual packages" start="00:01:00.480" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="separately from Emacs releases." start="00:01:03.485" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template new="1" text="Now, at that point somehow we decided to" start="00:01:08.880" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="support loading packages from" start="00:01:13.119" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="a variety of different Emacs Lisp package archives" start="00:01:17.040" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="and ours would be called the GNU ELPA," start="00:01:21.119" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="but ELPA could be any other." start="00:01:25.520" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="Now, I think that naming was a mistake." start="00:01:29.280" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="We should have meant, we should have decided that ELPA" start="00:01:32.945" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="referred to our package archive" start="00:01:35.119" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="and any other package archive" start="00:01:37.759" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="should be called some other name." start="00:01:39.297" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="Oh, well! Uh this is a mistake," start="00:01:42.479" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="I believe, because it leads" start="00:01:46.128" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="to a lot of confusion." start="00:01:48.320" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="It would have been clearer" start="00:01:49.397" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="if we had used the other naming." start="00:01:51.119" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template new="1" text="Because the difference between" start="00:01:55.759" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="having a package in core Emacs and having it in GNU ELPA," start="00:01:59.812" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="is purely a practical convenience matter." start="00:02:04.159" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="Convenience of distribution" start="00:02:07.840" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="and convenience of maintenance." start="00:02:10.501" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="We wanted to be able to move packages" start="00:02:12.000" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="between the two" start="00:02:14.879" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="whenever that was convenient." start="00:02:16.800" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="So, to make that possible" start="00:02:19.258" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="we insisted on getting copyright" start="00:02:21.200" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="assignments for packages in GNU ELPA" start="00:02:23.200" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="just the same way we do for packages in core Emacs." start="00:02:26.319" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template new="1" text="Having the facility for installing" start="00:02:31.360" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="packages from package archives," start="00:02:33.760" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="led to a tremendous boost in the" start="00:02:36.239" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="development and release of Emacs packages." start="00:02:39.440" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="Unfortunately there was a problem with" start="00:02:42.239" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="the way that was done." start="00:02:44.879" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="For the most part, the developers of these packages" start="00:02:46.560" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="wouldn't even tell us about them." start="00:02:50.000" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="They posted them in another package archive" start="00:02:52.218" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="where we didn't know about them" start="00:02:56.027" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="and no attempt was made to try to fit them" start="00:02:58.480" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="into Emacs so that they could make sense" start="00:03:03.120" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="as parts of the Emacs distribution." start="00:03:06.560" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="This led to both moral problems," start="00:03:10.879" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="(packages that depended on" start="00:03:14.480" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="non-free software in order to be usable)" start="00:03:16.375" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="and technical problems," start="00:03:19.599" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="because the developers of those packages" start="00:03:21.354" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="didn't coordinate with us" start="00:03:24.877" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="about how to make it useful and" start="00:03:26.159" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="convenient and clean to have them in Emacs." start="00:03:29.519" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template new="1" text="So, the idea of NonGNU ELPA" start="00:03:36.560" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="is an effort to smooth these things out." start="00:03:41.120" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="The fundamental plan of" start="00:03:45.337" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="NonGNU ELPA is that" start="00:03:48.319" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="we won't ask for copyright assignments" start="00:03:51.680" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="for those packages." start="00:03:54.480" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="So, we won't be able to put them into core Emacs;" start="00:03:56.159" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="at least not easily," start="00:04:00.000" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="but we will have some control over how we distribute them." start="00:04:03.550" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="We can put any package into NonGNU ELPA" start="00:04:09.519" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="as long as it's free software." start="00:04:14.691" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="If we like it, we can set up that way for users to get it." start="00:04:16.320" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="We could put the package in exactly as it is" start="00:04:23.360" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="if there's no problem at all with it." start="00:04:26.720" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="We can make an arrangement" start="00:04:29.919" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="with the package's developers" start="00:04:32.647" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="to work on it with us and maintain it" start="00:04:34.160" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="directly for distribution by NonGNU ELPA," start="00:04:38.000" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="but if they are not interested," start="00:04:42.560" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="we can put it in ourselves," start="00:04:45.778" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="and if we need to make any changes," start="00:04:48.729" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="we can do so." start="00:04:50.453" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="So, NonGNU ELPA is not meant to be" start="00:04:52.000" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="just a way that others can distribute their packages." start="00:04:58.688" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="It's meant, at least in" start="00:05:02.720" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="a minimal technical sense," start="00:05:04.336" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="to work with GNU Emacs," start="00:05:07.574" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="and we'll make changes if necessary," start="00:05:10.686" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="so that it works smoothly with Emacs." start="00:05:12.305" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="And this means that we're going to maintain it differently from GNU ELPA." start="00:05:17.928" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template new="1" text="Well, GNU ELPA is hosted in a way that is actually rather inconvenient." start="00:05:25.365" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="It is one single Git repository." start="00:05:31.520" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="And so anybody that has access to write it" start="00:05:35.600" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="can write any part of it." start="00:05:39.039" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="There are many different packages in there, maintained by different people," start="00:05:41.239" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="and we have no way to give each one of" start="00:05:46.080" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="them access to per own package" start="00:05:48.080" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="and not to the others." start="00:05:50.960" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="Well, with NonGNU ELPA, we plan to fix that." start="00:05:53.122" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="The idea is to have a single Git repository" start="00:05:57.035" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="where you can download various packages from." start="00:06:01.411" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="But they won't be maintained there." start="00:06:05.600" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="Each of those packages will be" start="00:06:08.400" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="copied automatically from some other place." start="00:06:10.800" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="Probably some other repository" start="00:06:15.280" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="where the right people have access to work on it." start="00:06:18.311" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="And this way we can avoid giving" start="00:06:22.960" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="a gigantic number of people" start="00:06:26.375" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template new="1" text="access to every part of it." start="00:06:28.160" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="So far NonGNU ELPA is just a plan," start="00:06:32.240" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="we need people to implement the plan." start="00:06:37.039" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="So, if you would like to help," start="00:06:40.479" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="please write to me." start="00:06:43.825" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="I think this is a very important step for progress" start="00:06:45.120" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="and it's got to be implemented." start="00:06:49.520" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] +[[!template text="Thanks and happy hacking!" start="00:06:52.639" video="mainVideo" id=subtitle]] <!-- /transcript --> @@ -562,7 +612,7 @@ that they're not bullying, I will forgive them. I would like to have conversations with them if any of the mole hills annoyed someone, I'm happy to talk with per and thus help resolve things with peace. And my opinion on "diversity" within Emacs. Well, Emacs is never going to be -diverse, it is extended in one language, Emacs Lisp. Well, I don't +diverse, it is extended in one language, Emacs Lisp ;-}. Well, I don't know, we did have an idea of implementing extensibility using Scheme and the hope was that Guile could be integrated with Emacs, that turned out to be difficult, it may be impossible but in principle it |