add notes to reference

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diff --git a/2025/talks/reference.md b/2025/talks/reference.md
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--- a/2025/talks/reference.md
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@@ -59,6 +59,131 @@ being able to remove external reference managers from my workflow,
 something I have wanted for years, but that I haven't managed to do
 before this.
 
+## Discussion / notes
+
+- Check out the ebib manual for an explanation of the features I
+  showed and more!
+  [https://joostkremers.github.io/ebib/ebib-manual.html](https://joostkremers.github.io/ebib/ebib-manual.html){rel="noreferrer noopener"}.
+  - Also my ebib config for the custom things
+    [https://github.com/Vidianos-Giannitsis/Dotfiles/blob/master/emacs/.emacs.d/libs/zettelkasten.org#ebib](https://github.com/Vidianos-Giannitsis/Dotfiles/blob/master/emacs/.emacs.d/libs/zettelkasten.org#ebib){rel="noreferrer noopener"}
+- My 2022 talk if you're interested in the rest of my workflow
+  regarding scientific literature
+  [https://emacsconf.org/2022/talks/science/](https://emacsconf.org/2022/talks/science/){rel="noreferrer noopener"}
+- Use link to directly download bib info to the library is cool. I
+  always did that manually.
+- The reading list, for me every download item will directly inside a
+  manuscript.
+
+- Q: Which version of \`org-ref\` you are using? I am so dependent on
+  org-ref and org-mode, so that I had huge resistant to update
+  \`org-mode\`, \`org-ref\`, \`ivy-bibtex.el\`, etc
+  - A: I'm not sure how recently I updated, so it may not be
+    master, but I generally try to keep up to date with the packages
+    I use. I generally haven't had many problems, unless when there
+    is a new major version, which may need an afternoon to confirm
+    everything works.
+    - Thanks for sharing this.
+- Q: Have you try ivy-bibtex/bibtex-completion.el, how it compares to
+  ebib?
+  - A: I think they are not mutually exclusive. I typically use
+    ivy-bibtex to find an article quickly, to initialize a
+    literature note (integration with org-roam-bibtex) or to add a
+    pdf to the entry, where it will automatically rename it as it
+    should. ebib is more of a tool to manage the .bib file more,
+    find an entry with full text search (instead of just
+    Author/Title search) and reading list management. There may be
+    some overlap, but I use both a lot.
+    - Got it, quick check with ivy-bibtex etc.
+    - ebib is for heavy lifting for academics
+- Q: Do you find showing abstract on your navigation panel helpful? I
+  always delete all the abstract info in my bib to make things little
+  concise. Just want to know you thoughts on this.
+  - A: I like showing the abstract. It can be long and reduce
+    visibility, but the whole point of searching with the navigation
+    panel inside ebib is that I cannot easily find it through an
+    Author/Title search. Therefore, the abstract is often the next
+    line of search where you will find what you were looking for, so
+    for me it is helpful. I sometimes also use the small comments I
+    leave on the annote entry for this purpose.
+    - Try to find relevent info using search. Abstract helps you
+      search better.
+    - annotation entry also help
+- Q: it seems that there's a meta problem here:  too much
+  information.   Do your tools reduce cognitive load?
+  - A: There is definitely too much information, but that is an
+    innate problem of handling a lot of literature. I think these
+    tools can reduce cognitive load, because things don't stay in
+    my mind. They can be moved to the computer, which can handle
+    more overload than my brain. So it is to a large extent the
+    externalization that reduces the load, because too much
+    information is a reality with literature.
+  - thanks.  Sounds like externalizing the problem is the point.
+- Q: When you download a new article, how do you integrate its file to
+  your database? For example, do you move and rename the file
+  manually?
+  - A:Find the file in ivy-bibtex, run M-o, select l (add PDF to
+    library), find from file (f), find where you saved it and it
+    will be renamed automatically. It is not moved automatically,
+    but the rest of my packages know to find it in the folder I save
+    initially. You may look at the README of the package for more
+    details, it is one of the more well written ones in my opinion
+    ([https://github.com/tmalsburg/helm-bibtex](https://github.com/tmalsburg/helm-bibtex){rel="noreferrer noopener"}).
+  - Ok, I see, Ivy-bibtex has a function for this, thanks!
+- Q: What about annotations with ereaders. veiwng and taking on emacs
+  or erader touchscreen highlighting and notes, org-noter I think
+  would be an alternative out of ebook anotation alternative?
+  - A: I do not use an ereader. For touchscreen, I have a tablet,
+    which runs Emacs natively and I can work with org-noter with
+    touch, but in that case, nothing in the general workflow
+    changes. For books, I know org-noter also works with epub files,
+    so you can also directly take the notes there. If you use an
+    ereader for annotating that doesn't run Emacs, this is
+    obviously more complex.
+- Q: How well do you feel about making notes an web sites, pdf,
+  videos, I know pdf is ussaly good but others I am less sure about?
+  - (Not the author) i always try to convert it to pdf, so only one
+    file format to worry about. Video is another story.
+  - I agree with the above comment. PDF is just the easiest to deal
+    with in general, so I try to go for it. For taking notes on web
+    sites, there is org-roam-protocol
+    ([https://www.orgroam.com/manual.html#org_002droam_002dprotocol](https://www.orgroam.com/manual.html#org_002droam_002dprotocol){rel="noreferrer noopener"})
+    although I personally don't use it a lot. Video is much more
+    complex, but in practice, I tend to not annotate videos
+    directly, with a timestamp, but rather to take crude notes on
+    paper during the video and organize them online at a later
+    point.
+- Q: how do you add a new article from scratch, a pdf that you did not
+  have in your bib file? How do you generate the 'bib' entry with
+  metadata and abstract?
+  - (Not the author) He mentioned he uses Zotra, which does that.
+    [https://github.com/mpedramfar/zotra](https://github.com/mpedramfar/zotra){rel="noreferrer noopener"}
+  - Yes, this is my approach. Specifically the function
+    zotra-add-entry.
+- Q: When you fact check every details for a bib entry? The author
+  names, published journal, doi stuff. Always painful for me when I
+  need to upload a final version of a manuscript. Tons of work. Maybe
+  I can do it at the download step.
+  - A: I haven't worried about that, because I think automatically added
+    bib entries work well. But Org-ref has a tool to automatically check
+    it. I generally think it is best to do it directly when you add
+    them.
+  - [https://github.com/jkitchin/org-ref/blob/master/org-ref-bibtex.el#L119](https://github.com/jkitchin/org-ref/blob/master/org-ref-bibtex.el#L119){rel="noreferrer noopener"}
+    - Yes, i did it manully, so some time I have issues.
+
+- Comment: I just use Org headings for all the metadata. Why bother with bib files.  https://0x0.st/Kvbi.txt
+  With Org, you can search through notes and title and metadata together. I use org-ql, but you can use anything that can search Org headings. And use attachments.  can also directly export to .bib from org. with headings, reading list is just natural - assign todo to heading
+  - A: You can move this all to org, yes, but I think .bib is very ubiquitous and a lot of tools work well with it, so I haven't really felt the need to move away from it. It is an interesting approach though. I have seen some others use it as well
+  - A: Making a reading list is easy indeed. The primary goal of my additions were to be able to manipulate it without ever worrying about the file itself. I find it works better/faster for me if I can always access the content I want without opening the file. Which is mostly what the code I wrote for this does.
+- I noticed that his command searches are automatically prefixed with "^" to prevent more generalized matching (e.g. all comands that have "copy")
+  - A: I believe that is done automatically by counsel-M-x. It served for something, but I don't remember exactly why.
+- Q: for viewing pdfs, do you use pdf-tools? I always found it clunky imo.
+  - A: Yes, its pdf-tools With org-noter to take notes side by side. And I haven't had any problems with it. It generally works well.
+  - (audience): I tend to always call out to the external PDF viewers.
+  - (audience): maybe I didn't try it well enough, but I just prefer external viewers.  pdf-tools feels like an image viewer to me
+  - A: Some external viewers can have more features, but again, the problem comes down to it not being Emacs :D Being in Emacs is better than not being in Emacs.
+  - A: Are you sure you are talking about pdf-tools and not doc-view? Because those problems are very much in doc-view, but I wouldn't say for pdf-tools.
+- It's always interesting to watch other people work in their emacs environment.
+- Thanks for the talk! There was a lot to digest, I'll have to rewatch it.
 
 
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