Automated commit

1 files changed, 1260 insertions, 0 deletions

diff --git a/2025/captions/emacsconf-2025-commonlisp--common-lisp-images-communicating-likeahuman-through-shared-emacs-slime-and-eev--screwlisp--main.vtt b/2025/captions/emacsconf-2025-commonlisp--common-lisp-images-communicating-likeahuman-through-shared-emacs-slime-and-eev--screwlisp--main.vtt
new file mode 100644
index 00000000..2ad2f285
--- /dev/null
+++ b/2025/captions/emacsconf-2025-commonlisp--common-lisp-images-communicating-likeahuman-through-shared-emacs-slime-and-eev--screwlisp--main.vtt
@@ -0,0 +1,1260 @@
+WEBVTT captioned by jay_bird
+
+NOTE Introduction
+
+00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:07.119
+Hey, everyone. This talk is on this tradition,
+
+00:00:07.120 --> 00:00:10.639
+intelligent agents in Emacs
+
+00:00:10.640 --> 00:00:13.799
+using my Leonardo software individuals,
+
+00:00:13.800 --> 00:00:16.919
+which I've mistyped as I just wrote here, I see.
+
+00:00:16.920 --> 00:00:20.159
+Thank you to Sacha and everyone
+
+00:00:20.160 --> 00:00:25.239
+at EmacsConf and Emacs, I guess.
+
+00:00:25.240 --> 00:00:26.599
+Sorry that I was running late.
+
+00:00:26.600 --> 00:00:29.759
+I'm screwlisp.small-web.org.
+
+00:00:29.760 --> 00:00:33.999
+I run those one or two weekly shows for a long time,
+
+00:00:34.000 --> 00:00:35.599
+the Lispy Gopher Climate.
+
+00:00:35.600 --> 00:00:42.199
+I'm active on the Mastodon at @screwlisp@gamerplus.org.
+
+00:00:42.200 --> 00:00:46.719
+I'm screwtape on lambda.moo.mud.org.
+
+00:00:46.720 --> 00:00:50.474
+And I ported, over the last kind of year,
+
+00:00:50.475 --> 00:00:58.499
+years, to some extent, I ported Eric Sandewall's system
+
+00:00:58.500 --> 00:01:01.519
+for developing intelligent software agents,
+
+00:01:01.520 --> 00:01:04.879
+which he finished working on in 2014.
+
+00:01:04.880 --> 00:01:10.119
+I got it working again around 2025.
+
+00:01:10.120 --> 00:01:14.199
+First, we're going to take a long arc.
+
+00:01:14.200 --> 00:01:16.759
+We're going to motivate... This is the idea.
+
+00:01:16.760 --> 00:01:18.119
+You can see I'm using Org Mode,
+
+00:01:18.120 --> 00:01:19.959
+which I hope provides a good example
+
+00:01:19.960 --> 00:01:25.359
+for all the Org-Mode-oriented talks this conference.
+
+00:01:25.360 --> 00:01:26.399
+But you can also see
+
+00:01:26.400 --> 00:01:33.107
+that I'm using Eduardo Ochs's eev minor mode with Org.
+
+00:01:33.108 --> 00:01:35.640
+But we can see a little bit of the difference
+
+00:01:35.641 --> 00:01:39.207
+between these two, and that will kind of evolve into
+
+00:01:39.208 --> 00:01:45.259
+my style with the agent communication in Emacs.
+
+00:01:45.260 --> 00:01:52.999
+So you can see I used eev anchors as my Emacs headings.
+
+00:01:53.000 --> 00:01:56.839
+In eev, you just evaluate Elisp expressions
+
+00:01:56.840 --> 00:01:58.679
+as links to places.
+
+00:01:58.680 --> 00:02:01.679
+An anchor will link you somewhere else in the document.
+
+00:02:01.680 --> 00:02:04.807
+So my table of contents links to my talk, I guess.
+
+00:02:04.808 --> 00:02:07.507
+Anchors come in two halves,
+
+00:02:07.508 --> 00:02:12.940
+so that's why I built that unique table of contents
+
+00:02:12.941 --> 00:02:21.479
+experience there. What else am I going to say?
+
+NOTE Totally normal computing
+
+00:02:21.480 --> 00:02:24.174
+So first, let's just do some totally normal computing
+
+00:02:24.175 --> 00:02:27.140
+because intelligence is going to be difficult to describe.
+
+00:02:27.141 --> 00:02:31.100
+Let's just try and compute normally in Emacs in Org Mode
+
+00:02:31.101 --> 00:02:34.359
+and then segue more so into eev,
+
+00:02:34.360 --> 00:02:38.359
+and then maybe I would like if an agent was intelligent,
+
+00:02:38.360 --> 00:02:40.839
+I would think that an intelligent agent
+
+00:02:40.840 --> 00:02:43.319
+would do something like what I'm doing.
+
+00:02:43.320 --> 00:02:47.239
+It should be recognizably similar to what I do myself.
+
+00:02:47.240 --> 00:02:52.399
+I don't think the word intelligence is relevant
+
+00:02:52.400 --> 00:02:55.679
+if it's not related to something I'm not familiar with.
+
+NOTE Using Emacs as a human
+
+00:02:55.680 --> 00:03:00.999
+Using Emacs as a human, reading headings from my article,
+
+00:03:01.000 --> 00:03:03.919
+using Common Lisp. Right, my friend jeremy_list
+
+00:03:03.920 --> 00:03:06.879
+wrote actually a big project,
+
+00:03:06.880 --> 00:03:09.799
+but part of it was base64 encoding,
+
+00:03:09.800 --> 00:03:17.439
+and I just yoinked his C code for base64 encoding, I think.
+
+00:03:17.440 --> 00:03:20.759
+This is just clearly some C-based 64 encoding.
+
+00:03:20.760 --> 00:03:24.279
+If you go to my blog, his project is actually a C++ project
+
+00:03:24.280 --> 00:03:29.579
+and you can see me doing this with C++ rather than C.
+
+00:03:29.580 --> 00:03:33.319
+But basically, you can go to my blog articles
+
+00:03:33.320 --> 00:03:40.299
+if you want more detail to read something instead.
+
+00:03:40.300 --> 00:03:42.433
+And then here's some embeddable Common Lisp,
+
+00:03:42.434 --> 00:03:48.439
+Jack Daniel's ECL ANSI Common Lisp compiler I guess.
+
+00:03:48.440 --> 00:03:49.639
+This is just what it looks like.
+
+00:03:49.640 --> 00:03:52.239
+You can see I'm using Org Mode trickily,
+
+00:03:52.240 --> 00:03:56.119
+using noweb to put the lines of the C source block
+
+00:03:56.120 --> 00:04:00.279
+in this one. We're tangling it to this file
+
+00:04:00.280 --> 00:04:01.919
+rather than evaluating it.
+
+00:04:01.920 --> 00:04:05.279
+So, you know, literate programming, tangle and weave.
+
+00:04:05.280 --> 00:04:06.999
+We're just using Org Mode
+
+00:04:07.000 --> 00:04:09.197
+like the other Org Mode people
+
+00:04:09.198 --> 00:04:12.079
+are all showing us this conference, I guess.
+
+00:04:12.080 --> 00:04:13.399
+Then we have to compile it.
+
+00:04:13.400 --> 00:04:16.039
+It's always hard to remember these invocations for me.
+
+00:04:16.040 --> 00:04:20.159
+Results file. The file is my .fas file,
+
+00:04:20.160 --> 00:04:24.559
+because the way ECL's C and C++ integration works
+
+00:04:24.560 --> 00:04:30.519
+is that it just has to be seen by compile-file in Lisp.
+
+00:04:30.520 --> 00:04:32.119
+I cached this earlier.
+
+00:04:32.120 --> 00:04:36.199
+Oh, I should actually start Lisp, actually, shouldn't I?
+
+00:04:36.200 --> 00:04:39.639
+How are we going to do this?
+
+00:04:39.640 --> 00:04:47.099
+(setq inferior-lisp-program "ecl"). We could M-x slime.
+
+00:04:47.100 --> 00:04:48.919
+Because... we better actually load this.
+
+00:04:48.920 --> 00:04:54.119
+I did a dry run before.
+
+00:04:54.120 --> 00:04:58.259
+I think we can just load this, because I already did it.
+
+00:04:58.260 --> 00:05:04.079
+But I cached it. Let's nuke the cache.
+
+00:05:04.080 --> 00:05:06.599
+Okay, I'm going to say that that probably worked.
+
+00:05:06.600 --> 00:05:09.319
+Now, as you saw, that base64 encoding
+
+00:05:09.320 --> 00:05:13.619
+was just, I guess, number to character code
+
+00:05:13.620 --> 00:05:19.140
+to other character code. So I wrote this higher-level Lisp one,
+
+00:05:19.141 --> 00:05:20.599
+but that's not really the point.
+
+00:05:20.600 --> 00:05:26.199
+Obviously, Emacs also has Base64 encoding.
+
+00:05:26.200 --> 00:05:27.979
+It's just a point that we might have
+
+00:05:27.980 --> 00:05:29.959
+C++ and C external programs
+
+00:05:29.960 --> 00:05:31.239
+that we'd like to be integrating
+
+00:05:31.240 --> 00:05:37.139
+into our Emacs agents capabilities.
+
+00:05:37.140 --> 00:05:46.474
+Here we can see a normal named Org Mode source block.
+
+00:05:46.475 --> 00:05:50.474
+that calls that function, then an Org Mode source block
+
+00:05:50.475 --> 00:05:56.299
+that calls Emacs's base64-decode-string as a way of
+
+00:05:56.300 --> 00:05:57.940
+validating it, I guess.
+
+00:05:57.941 --> 00:06:00.140
+We go to Org, so we can see...
+
+00:06:00.141 --> 00:06:04.407
+I have a named call to that function calling the Lisp function
+
+00:06:04.408 --> 00:06:07.040
+Org is just kind of like this.
+
+00:06:07.041 --> 00:06:11.559
+It's cached but I don't seem to have run it before.
+
+00:06:11.560 --> 00:06:13.574
+Then I do the Emacs decode.
+
+00:06:13.575 --> 00:06:15.974
+So if we just run this using C-c C-c,
+
+00:06:15.975 --> 00:06:17.240
+and we can kind of see
+
+00:06:17.241 --> 00:06:22.179
+what Org Mode is like a little bit here.
+
+00:06:22.180 --> 00:06:24.319
+All right, yes, so as we can see,
+
+00:06:24.320 --> 00:06:27.659
+oh hang on, let's run this as well actually.
+
+00:06:27.660 --> 00:06:32.193
+So the C embeddable Common Lisp
+
+00:06:32.194 --> 00:06:35.199
+base64 encoding gets us this.
+
+00:06:35.200 --> 00:06:38.079
+And then Emacs is decoding and gets us back,
+
+00:06:38.080 --> 00:06:40.319
+kind of validates it. I think I'm missing some things.
+
+00:06:40.320 --> 00:06:43.079
+I don't pad characters out to the correct byte lengths,
+
+00:06:43.080 --> 00:06:45.399
+that kind of thing, but it's fine.
+
+NOTE using this via eev as a human
+
+00:06:45.400 --> 00:06:48.719
+And then I kind of contrast that to,
+
+00:06:48.720 --> 00:06:53.179
+I really like what my friend mdhughes.tech,
+
+00:06:53.180 --> 00:06:57.319
+game dev of the ages, calls REPL-driven development,
+
+00:06:57.320 --> 00:07:06.139
+which he says is kind of the opposite of literate coding.
+
+00:07:06.140 --> 00:07:08.940
+I think eev, at least for me,
+
+00:07:08.941 --> 00:07:11.079
+is kind of like REPL-driven development.
+
+00:07:11.080 --> 00:07:16.159
+So in eev, if you just press F8, the thing happens.
+
+00:07:16.160 --> 00:07:17.479
+And if it's a red star line,
+
+00:07:17.480 --> 00:07:19.439
+the thing is an Emacs Lisp thing,
+
+00:07:19.440 --> 00:07:22.999
+and otherwise it goes to the eepitch target.
+
+00:07:23.000 --> 00:07:26.719
+So if I do this, great, now I'm pitching to that slime
+
+00:07:26.720 --> 00:07:32.759
+REPL ECL I made. And then I pressed F8. Press F8 again.
+
+00:07:32.760 --> 00:07:34.480
+The string got coerced to a list.
+
+00:07:34.481 --> 00:07:38.359
+F8. Now it's car codified.
+
+00:07:38.360 --> 00:07:41.319
+I quite like this, because this looks like something I can do
+
+00:07:41.320 --> 00:07:44.239
+and understand doing and reason about doing.
+
+00:07:44.240 --> 00:07:49.519
+Then I form a command to send from Lisp to Emacs.
+
+00:07:49.520 --> 00:07:52.599
+Then I do it and I recover the string from the beginning.
+
+00:07:52.600 --> 00:07:56.119
+I guess I had one of these here. Oh, by the way, look at
+
+00:07:56.120 --> 00:07:59.159
+What Org Mode did with an eev source block.
+
+00:07:59.160 --> 00:08:00.999
+And then when I close the source block
+
+00:08:01.000 --> 00:08:02.679
+using C-c ',
+
+00:08:02.680 --> 00:08:05.319
+it brings me back to the Org doc,
+
+00:08:05.320 --> 00:08:09.159
+which was a cool synergy between the eev minor mode
+
+00:08:09.160 --> 00:08:16.019
+and eev source blocks in Org Mode that I noticed.
+
+00:08:16.020 --> 00:08:22.599
+And so I kind of want my agents to be like this eev usage.
+
+00:08:22.600 --> 00:08:25.159
+Clearly, Org is super powerful,
+
+00:08:25.160 --> 00:08:28.159
+but I don't even like writing calls like this,
+
+00:08:28.160 --> 00:08:32.079
+where you write the function that will happen last first,
+
+00:08:32.080 --> 00:08:39.039
+so you're kind of writing right to left, first to last.
+
+00:08:39.040 --> 00:08:41.239
+Whereas in REPL-driven development,
+
+00:08:41.240 --> 00:08:43.199
+I guess I'm writing top to bottom,
+
+00:08:43.200 --> 00:08:46.979
+and eev, I guess, executable logs
+
+00:08:46.980 --> 00:08:48.599
+are logs that are like that.
+
+00:08:48.600 --> 00:08:52.378
+So I kind of like eev's view for reasoning
+
+00:08:52.379 --> 00:08:54.399
+more than Org's Tangle.
+
+00:08:54.400 --> 00:08:57.319
+Obviously, Tangle is trying to do tricky things,
+
+00:08:57.320 --> 00:09:01.359
+but maybe they have different specializations,
+
+00:09:01.360 --> 00:09:04.879
+and eev's one is more close
+
+00:09:04.880 --> 00:09:07.799
+to my own version of intelligence, maybe.
+
+NOTE Software individuals using eev in Emacs like a human
+
+00:09:07.800 --> 00:09:13.539
+Software individuals using eev in Emacs like a human.
+
+00:09:13.540 --> 00:09:17.279
+Yeah, you can always visit my blog post for more detail.
+
+00:09:17.280 --> 00:09:20.039
+Right, I made a CLOS object
+
+00:09:20.040 --> 00:09:22.519
+in Common Lisp to wrap doing this.
+
+00:09:22.520 --> 00:09:23.639
+It's not really the topic.
+
+00:09:23.640 --> 00:09:27.959
+It's in the appendix somewhere if you need it.
+
+00:09:27.960 --> 00:09:29.559
+So I've just executed that.
+
+00:09:29.560 --> 00:09:32.079
+You can look at the appendix in your own time.
+
+NOTE Sandewall's leonardo system
+
+00:09:32.080 --> 00:09:33.959
+Jumping over to actually starting
+
+00:09:33.960 --> 00:09:36.319
+our hypothetical intelligent agent.
+
+00:09:36.320 --> 00:09:38.239
+I guess we're doing eev here.
+
+00:09:38.240 --> 00:09:46.759
+So if we open this, press F8 a bunch of times.
+
+00:09:46.760 --> 00:09:49.199
+Oh, and if you were cloning it yourself,
+
+00:09:49.200 --> 00:09:56.719
+I guess that's what you would do. setq eepitch-buffer-name.
+
+00:09:56.720 --> 00:10:00.319
+Oh yeah, if you went to an eepitch shell and then came back.
+
+00:10:00.320 --> 00:10:01.679
+You would have had to do that, but I didn't.
+
+00:10:01.680 --> 00:10:04.239
+I didn't, so I didn't need to.
+
+00:10:04.240 --> 00:10:07.279
+Sandewall's style is to use relative paths
+
+00:10:07.280 --> 00:10:11.974
+to tell which agent is acting inside a software individual.
+
+00:10:11.975 --> 00:10:13.359
+Remembering a software individual
+
+00:10:13.360 --> 00:10:15.239
+is potentially a bunch of agents.
+
+00:10:15.240 --> 00:10:18.479
+And we load... So one individual,
+
+00:10:18.480 --> 00:10:21.919
+all the agents in each individual share a kernel.
+
+00:10:21.920 --> 00:10:25.599
+So only one agent in one software individual
+
+00:10:25.600 --> 00:10:28.279
+is active at any given time, but the agents are separate.
+
+00:10:28.280 --> 00:10:31.279
+They just all have to share the kernel resource,
+
+00:10:31.280 --> 00:10:38.319
+which is the Remus agent. Oh, I got rid of this.
+
+00:10:38.320 --> 00:10:43.279
+And start the CLE is the thing.
+
+00:10:43.280 --> 00:10:46.119
+Oh, I did need to have an EmacsConf knowledge base.
+
+00:10:46.120 --> 00:10:48.959
+Well, let's just keep eepitching for a little bit.
+
+00:10:48.960 --> 00:10:55.259
+So I think I made... I'm going to call it emacsconf-kb.
+
+00:10:55.260 --> 00:10:59.679
+Right, that looks likely. And I think that the agent...
+
+00:10:59.680 --> 00:11:03.479
+I can check this. I could have checked that.
+
+00:11:03.480 --> 00:11:12.699
+I could have done something like (get emacsconf-kb contents).
+
+00:11:12.700 --> 00:11:13.479
+Yeah, and you can see
+
+00:11:13.480 --> 00:11:15.879
+there's a location inside it which is agent1,
+
+00:11:15.880 --> 00:11:17.519
+which I assume is an entity file
+
+00:11:17.520 --> 00:11:20.599
+that I was working with before.
+
+00:11:20.600 --> 00:11:21.919
+And then what were we going to do?
+
+00:11:21.920 --> 00:11:28.279
+Oh yeah, back to the embeddable Common Lisp image.
+
+00:11:28.280 --> 00:11:36.099
+So if I just press our button back to there...
+
+NOTE Start a loop for one leonardo software individual
+
+00:11:36.100 --> 00:11:41.119
+And so my idea is that for an Emacs agent,
+
+00:11:41.120 --> 00:11:46.999
+basically, I'd like to have an Emacs Lisp list.
+
+00:11:47.000 --> 00:11:49.640
+And just when stuff gets into that list,
+
+00:11:49.641 --> 00:11:53.239
+the agent which is always running, but running slowly,
+
+00:11:53.240 --> 00:11:58.359
+will incrementally just do the stuff it finds in that list.
+
+00:11:58.360 --> 00:12:00.759
+Populating that list probably gets into stuff
+
+00:12:00.760 --> 00:12:03.199
+like your Beliefs, Desires, Intents framework
+
+00:12:03.200 --> 00:12:06.159
+and those kind of well-known and well-studied algorithms.
+
+00:12:06.160 --> 00:12:07.799
+That's not the point here.
+
+00:12:07.800 --> 00:12:14.259
+I just want to have a list in Emacs that my ECL...
+
+00:12:14.260 --> 00:12:16.079
+I'm just going to run a loop in ECL,
+
+00:12:16.080 --> 00:12:18.319
+and the ECL is going to keep sending
+
+00:12:18.320 --> 00:12:22.399
+anything it finds in that Emacs Lisp list
+
+00:12:22.400 --> 00:12:25.399
+to the software agent. The agent is also in Emacs,
+
+00:12:25.400 --> 00:12:28.759
+so it would be able to populate its own list itself
+
+00:12:28.760 --> 00:12:36.159
+if it had an idea of evaluating desires and chances to improve
+
+00:12:36.160 --> 00:12:37.559
+whatever it wants to improve
+
+00:12:37.560 --> 00:12:39.999
+and chances to avoid whatever it wants to avoid.
+
+00:12:40.000 --> 00:12:47.599
+We talked a little bit too much. Let's just start this.
+
+00:12:47.600 --> 00:12:51.539
+Sorry that I'm manually setting up my screen.
+
+00:12:51.540 --> 00:12:55.499
+Then let's put CLisp over here.
+
+00:12:55.500 --> 00:12:58.679
+Right, we could work with this, right?
+
+00:12:58.680 --> 00:13:00.099
+This loop isn't very important.
+
+00:13:00.100 --> 00:13:04.919
+It's just a Common Lisp loop. I copy my friend jmbr's style
+
+00:13:04.920 --> 00:13:08.199
+of using Lisp machine-style keyword arguments
+
+00:13:08.200 --> 00:13:12.119
+instead of symbols like cl-loop,
+
+00:13:12.120 --> 00:13:16.719
+the compatibility thing in Emacs Lisp does.
+
+00:13:16.720 --> 00:13:28.139
+I'd never initialized that. Well, let's do that.
+
+00:13:28.140 --> 00:13:30.679
+Okay, now we have the list.
+
+00:13:30.680 --> 00:13:35.019
+And just every 30, let's turn it down to every 20 seconds.
+
+00:13:35.020 --> 00:13:37.159
+Hypothetically, it's going to put
+
+00:13:37.160 --> 00:13:39.999
+whatever it finds in there, into there.
+
+00:13:40.000 --> 00:13:46.239
+And so, I think, yeah, and now... Great.
+
+00:13:46.240 --> 00:13:50.099
+So here I'm just going to fill it with stuff.
+
+00:13:50.100 --> 00:13:54.839
+And this is quite interesting, I think.
+
+00:13:54.840 --> 00:13:58.479
+It just shows I can put a whole bunch of stuff into that list.
+
+00:13:58.480 --> 00:14:01.199
+Ideally, the agent would populate it itself
+
+00:14:01.200 --> 00:14:03.359
+with a BDI algorithm or something.
+
+00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:04.919
+But if we just put some stuff in there,
+
+00:14:04.920 --> 00:14:07.799
+we'll see that it will all get sent
+
+00:14:07.800 --> 00:14:14.799
+basically using Eduardo's eepitch internal machinery, at least.
+
+00:14:14.800 --> 00:14:17.479
+And hence, it meets my requirement
+
+00:14:17.480 --> 00:14:20.779
+that it works exactly like I work.
+
+00:14:20.780 --> 00:14:25.859
+And then in eev, I just have to press M-e.
+
+00:14:25.860 --> 00:14:31.479
+Oh, it works via Emacs server, and I didn't start that,
+
+00:14:31.480 --> 00:14:39.719
+so if we server-start, hopefully...
+
+00:14:39.720 --> 00:14:42.799
+And then, ideally, things will just begin happening
+
+00:14:42.800 --> 00:14:53.119
+in this slime-repl C/Lisp agent.
+
+00:14:53.120 --> 00:15:05.419
+Oh, if this was still running.
+
+00:15:05.420 --> 00:15:07.199
+Okay, well we got at least one,
+
+00:15:07.200 --> 00:15:09.639
+but hypothetically lots of these will happen.
+
+00:15:09.640 --> 00:15:13.699
+So, show agent, I guess,
+
+00:15:13.700 --> 00:15:17.039
+happened over here. I put a whole bunch of "sleep-for"s in,
+
+00:15:17.040 --> 00:15:19.719
+because I thought that going slowly
+
+00:15:19.720 --> 00:15:21.319
+would make it seem more human.
+
+00:15:21.320 --> 00:15:24.639
+Like I saw in Eduardo's talk last year
+
+00:15:24.640 --> 00:15:29.099
+which is where I learned about eev.
+
+00:15:29.100 --> 00:15:32.319
+The system is a little fragile.
+
+00:15:32.320 --> 00:15:41.079
+Hypothetically, we have a whole bunch of agents.
+
+00:15:41.080 --> 00:15:43.039
+I guess every time it gets sent,
+
+00:15:43.040 --> 00:15:44.999
+it checks that we're in the right agent.
+
+00:15:45.000 --> 00:15:46.999
+And it's not actually just sending a string,
+
+00:15:47.000 --> 00:15:52.799
+it's sending a sequence of string actions over there.
+
+00:15:52.800 --> 00:15:57.479
+And so we see Emacs Lisp hypothetically put,
+
+00:15:57.480 --> 00:16:06.859
+I guess it put this "foo bar baz!" into an entity, message-1,
+
+00:16:06.860 --> 00:16:11.899
+which should be of type message, I guess, conceivably.
+
+00:16:11.900 --> 00:16:13.319
+I forget if I set that up earlier.
+
+00:16:13.320 --> 00:16:14.719
+It's in the appendix somewhere.
+
+00:16:14.720 --> 00:16:17.999
+And then it just called, it did a sequence of actions
+
+00:16:18.000 --> 00:16:21.319
+which was really just one action of showing that.
+
+00:16:21.320 --> 00:16:26.399
+And then I called b64-encode on message1,
+
+00:16:26.400 --> 00:16:30.599
+which I believe will have set message-1 encoded.
+
+00:16:30.600 --> 00:16:37.242
+Can I check that manually while it's happening?
+
+00:16:37.243 --> 00:16:51.499
+Disaster. Well that's what it should have been.
+
+00:16:51.500 --> 00:16:54.940
+Well, I did mention it was a little bit fragile.
+
+00:16:54.941 --> 00:17:03.279
+What if we put... Can we kind of rescue this?
+
+00:17:03.280 --> 00:17:07.239
+I don't want to try redoing this. It's slightly fragile.
+
+00:17:07.240 --> 00:17:12.639
+What it would do, we can see the actions are kind of getting there,
+
+00:17:12.640 --> 00:17:16.719
+but somehow my message didn't end up getting encoded
+
+00:17:16.720 --> 00:17:18.119
+by that sequence of actions.
+
+00:17:18.120 --> 00:17:23.279
+So this decode will have also made the decoded one be null.
+
+NOTE Let's do it manually
+
+00:17:23.280 --> 00:17:26.239
+Let's just do it manually. Should have worked.
+
+00:17:26.240 --> 00:17:30.559
+b64-encode, which calls out to Emacs
+
+00:17:30.560 --> 00:17:37.299
+to get everything actually done.
+
+00:17:37.300 --> 00:17:41.519
+Oh, I got interrupted by the agent.
+
+00:17:41.520 --> 00:17:43.320
+Well, if I do it manually, it worked.
+
+00:17:43.321 --> 00:17:53.519
+Hypothetically, the queue thing should have worked. Great.
+
+00:17:53.520 --> 00:17:56.840
+Well, you can see it's kind of working.
+
+00:17:56.841 --> 00:17:57.440
+Could be more robust.
+
+00:17:57.441 --> 00:18:03.640
+The reason is that I think what I did is a bit fragile,
+
+00:18:03.641 --> 00:18:07.107
+but the intent is that FIPA,
+
+00:18:07.108 --> 00:18:09.307
+Foundation for Intelligent Physical Agents's
+
+00:18:09.308 --> 00:18:15.639
+SL standard has tools for reliability
+
+00:18:15.640 --> 00:18:19.919
+through repetition and checking outcomes and that kind of thing.
+
+00:18:19.920 --> 00:18:22.959
+So I would use those. I'm not putting too much work
+
+00:18:22.960 --> 00:18:26.679
+into being ultra-reliable right now, but it kind of worked.
+
+00:18:26.680 --> 00:18:29.759
+We saw, I guess, at least Embeddable Common Lisp
+
+00:18:29.760 --> 00:18:35.599
+believed it used emacsclient externally, asynchronously,
+
+00:18:35.600 --> 00:18:38.359
+to send these to Emacs within Emacs.
+
+00:18:38.360 --> 00:18:41.599
+I put a whole bunch of sleeps into its thing
+
+00:18:41.600 --> 00:18:44.999
+to make it look slow and human-like, kind of happened
+
+00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:52.719
+because Emacs' model is that it's kind of single-threaded.
+
+00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:59.639
+Can I just... I bet if we run this again
+
+00:18:59.640 --> 00:19:02.119
+It'll at least look like it's succeeding
+
+00:19:02.120 --> 00:19:05.039
+because I fixed the base64 encoding
+
+00:19:05.040 --> 00:19:11.399
+and so forth in the background. I wonder if it will.
+
+NOTE Wrapping up
+
+00:19:11.400 --> 00:19:15.559
+In the meantime, let's wrap up this talk to some extent.
+
+00:19:15.560 --> 00:19:18.799
+Then I'm just kind of saying what I'm expecting to happen.
+
+00:19:18.800 --> 00:19:20.479
+I took out next action.
+
+00:19:20.480 --> 00:19:25.279
+Originally, I was keeping the list inside of the agent.
+
+00:19:25.280 --> 00:19:27.879
+Then I decided to keep the list inside Emacs
+
+00:19:27.880 --> 00:19:31.679
+because I have kind of first class Emacs is my IDE,
+
+00:19:31.680 --> 00:19:37.607
+so I have better access to what's going on in my IDE.
+
+NOTE Intelligence
+
+00:19:37.608 --> 00:19:39.559
+Then I wanted to talk about intelligence a little bit
+
+00:19:39.560 --> 00:19:41.199
+in whatever my remaining time is.
+
+00:19:41.200 --> 00:19:43.039
+I just have these great bullet points
+
+00:19:43.040 --> 00:19:45.559
+of nosrednA yduJ and Eric Sandewall.
+
+00:19:45.560 --> 00:19:50.039
+So nosrednA yduJ, when she was on the show quite a long time ago,
+
+00:19:50.040 --> 00:19:55.559
+she... I keep describing things as expert systems
+
+00:19:55.560 --> 00:19:57.039
+and she wanted to know what I meant
+
+00:19:57.040 --> 00:19:58.359
+when I said expert systems,
+
+00:19:58.360 --> 00:20:00.199
+and I gave her a Lisp software example
+
+00:20:00.200 --> 00:20:02.618
+and she said she personally wrote
+
+00:20:02.619 --> 00:20:06.279
+that software in the 80s that I was referring to
+
+00:20:06.280 --> 00:20:08.239
+and she wanted to know how it was an expert system.
+
+00:20:08.240 --> 00:20:10.039
+What I mean when I say expert system
+
+00:20:10.040 --> 00:20:19.839
+is a system that works kind of like I do and eev's eepitch does.
+
+00:20:19.840 --> 00:20:21.999
+It's where we can really reason
+
+00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:24.199
+in a very human-relatable way
+
+00:20:24.200 --> 00:20:26.479
+about what the inputs to the program is.
+
+00:20:26.480 --> 00:20:31.399
+And also a program should be exposed to other programs
+
+00:20:31.400 --> 00:20:36.559
+in terms of like a well-structured transfer of knowledge as inputs,
+
+00:20:36.560 --> 00:20:38.010
+and it should have a well-structured
+
+00:20:38.011 --> 00:20:41.939
+transfer of knowledge kind of outputs.
+
+00:20:41.940 --> 00:20:47.159
+I don't know why this b64-encode message wasn't working.
+
+00:20:47.160 --> 00:20:49.999
+Then we kind of faked it into working.
+
+00:20:50.000 --> 00:20:52.399
+It's going to be embarrassing for me
+
+00:20:52.400 --> 00:20:58.739
+if anybody watches this. But yeah, so yduJ's thing...
+
+00:20:58.740 --> 00:20:59.959
+And then I was going to also build
+
+00:20:59.960 --> 00:21:02.679
+that into Eric Sandewall's one.
+
+00:21:02.680 --> 00:21:05.639
+So this is my vision of expert systems
+
+00:21:05.640 --> 00:21:07.779
+as kind of maybe this is an important
+
+00:21:07.780 --> 00:21:11.679
+general style loosely associated with Lisp.
+
+00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:14.399
+Same as the Lisp editor Emacs.
+
+00:21:14.400 --> 00:21:17.665
+So Eric Sandewall's description of intelligence
+
+00:21:17.666 --> 00:21:21.159
+was that his grandchildren were intelligent.
+
+00:21:21.160 --> 00:21:26.439
+So if we had software agents that were intelligent,
+
+00:21:26.440 --> 00:21:32.439
+this would be true if and maybe only if they were similar
+
+00:21:32.440 --> 00:21:33.719
+to his grandchildren
+
+00:21:33.720 --> 00:21:36.319
+who were a good reference for intelligence.
+
+00:21:36.320 --> 00:21:39.199
+And grandchildren live for a really long time.
+
+00:21:39.200 --> 00:21:42.879
+They kind of learn gradually.
+
+00:21:42.880 --> 00:21:46.879
+They don't run on GPUs for a few minutes
+
+00:21:46.880 --> 00:21:51.879
+and then get thrown out forever, something like that.
+
+00:21:51.880 --> 00:21:54.959
+And so this is the kind of vision of, I guess,
+
+00:21:54.960 --> 00:21:57.919
+the Leonardo system software individual stuff.
+
+00:21:57.920 --> 00:22:03.946
+You can see we kind of faked it into...
+
+00:22:03.947 --> 00:22:06.320
+at least the show get message one decoded bits were working.
+
+00:22:06.321 --> 00:22:07.300
+I'm not sure what was happening
+
+00:22:07.301 --> 00:22:12.674
+with the Elisp ones that worked interactively,
+
+00:22:12.675 --> 00:22:18.607
+but then they didn't work in my loopy thing.
+
+00:22:18.608 --> 00:22:21.307
+Oh yeah, and then so I mentioned
+
+00:22:21.308 --> 00:22:24.640
+thank you to Sacha at the start of this talk.
+
+00:22:24.641 --> 00:22:26.974
+And so Eric Sandewall's emphasis
+
+00:22:26.975 --> 00:22:31.340
+that you'd really like intelligent software agents,
+
+00:22:31.341 --> 00:22:34.174
+Leonardo system agents, to be like your grandchildren.
+
+00:22:34.175 --> 00:22:40.659
+And I was talking to somebody, maybe to Ramin Honary
+
+00:22:40.660 --> 00:22:44.959
+who's doing the schemacs talk this year
+
+00:22:44.960 --> 00:22:46.874
+about Sacha's writing.
+
+00:22:46.875 --> 00:22:48.840
+A lot of Sacha's writing is about
+
+00:22:48.841 --> 00:22:51.774
+her experiences of life and technology,
+
+00:22:51.775 --> 00:22:54.374
+and especially raising A*
+
+00:22:54.375 --> 00:22:59.740
+and her observations of her progeny A*'s
+
+00:22:59.741 --> 00:23:05.319
+experiences of life and technology,
+
+00:23:05.320 --> 00:23:07.874
+I would say as well as being
+
+00:23:07.875 --> 00:23:18.039
+the Emacs News and Emacs conf doer that she is.
+
+00:23:18.040 --> 00:23:22.740
+Yeah, and so I think a lot of what Sacha is seen doing
+
+00:23:22.741 --> 00:23:25.840
+and concerned with are specifically what Eric Sandewall
+
+00:23:25.841 --> 00:23:31.207
+identifies as the study of intelligence as such,
+
+00:23:31.208 --> 00:23:36.479
+as should apply to computing as well. That was my thought
+
+00:23:36.480 --> 00:23:42.979
+on Sacha, Eric Sandewall, intelligence, and yduJ.
+
+00:23:42.980 --> 00:23:44.240
+I have this note from pizzapal...
+
+00:23:44.241 --> 00:23:46.274
+I didn't realize that Microsoft had announced
+
+00:23:46.275 --> 00:23:49.679
+that 2025 was going to be the year of the software agent.
+
+00:23:49.680 --> 00:23:51.199
+I only found this out in hindsight
+
+00:23:51.200 --> 00:23:54.199
+when I saw people crowing on the Mastodon
+
+00:23:54.200 --> 00:23:58.079
+about how Microsoft had basically declared
+
+00:23:58.080 --> 00:24:00.779
+that their Year of the Agent marketing campaign
+
+00:24:00.780 --> 00:24:04.459
+was a failure
+
+00:24:04.460 --> 00:24:09.279
+where basically people didn't like the same old web services
+
+00:24:09.280 --> 00:24:11.359
+but now while you're accessing,
+
+00:24:11.360 --> 00:24:15.239
+while you're formally kind of accessing a web service,
+
+00:24:15.240 --> 00:24:16.959
+the kind of web service that used to be called
+
+00:24:16.960 --> 00:24:19.279
+serverless web services, this kind of thing,
+
+00:24:19.280 --> 00:24:23.879
+but you're just being gibbered at by Microsoft Copilot
+
+00:24:23.880 --> 00:24:27.119
+while you're trying to use regular services.
+
+00:24:27.120 --> 00:24:29.279
+And people turned out not to like this.
+
+00:24:29.280 --> 00:24:32.399
+I think that, as we can see in this agent,
+
+00:24:32.400 --> 00:24:36.374
+the agent really needs to be running on its own clock
+
+00:24:36.375 --> 00:24:37.907
+and independently of you.
+
+00:24:37.908 --> 00:24:42.279
+Like if you imagine your body is getting
+
+00:24:42.280 --> 00:24:46.074
+novel, slightly speculative instructions from your brain
+
+00:24:46.075 --> 00:24:50.680
+constantly throughout your entire waking day, quite slowly,
+
+00:24:50.681 --> 00:24:54.974
+this is what an agent should be like.
+
+00:24:54.975 --> 00:24:59.540
+And it should be... Sandewall wrote about this.
+
+00:24:59.541 --> 00:25:01.540
+Basically, computer programs
+
+00:25:01.541 --> 00:25:04.840
+aren't going to want to use human natural language with each other.
+
+00:25:04.841 --> 00:25:06.674
+There's nothing desirable about that,
+
+00:25:06.675 --> 00:25:10.674
+so you wouldn't have two hypothetical Microsoft agents,
+
+00:25:10.675 --> 00:25:13.399
+which are just regular web services with
+
+00:25:13.400 --> 00:25:16.340
+a GPT model gibbering at you
+
+00:25:16.341 --> 00:25:19.839
+while you're trying to use the web service.
+
+00:25:19.840 --> 00:25:22.539
+I think we can see...
+
+00:25:22.540 --> 00:25:26.740
+Microsoft did the wrong thing with the word agent,
+
+00:25:26.741 --> 00:25:30.707
+allowing that agent is an overloaded term like static.
+
+00:25:30.708 --> 00:25:34.256
+I'm going to stop this. I'm not going to try and fix this.
+
+00:25:34.257 --> 00:25:36.313
+Sorry, everybody. Thank you. Talk to you on the Mastodon.
+
+00:25:36.314 --> 00:25:37.919
+Hopefully, see you on the show.
+
+00:25:37.920 --> 00:25:40.399
+See you at your conference talks.
+
+00:25:40.400 --> 00:25:45.599
+My blog has writing and examples of this with multi-agents,
+
+00:25:45.600 --> 00:25:50.819
+more C and C++ stuff, Lisp things.
+
+00:25:50.820 --> 00:25:53.439
+You're welcome to come on my show to be interviewed,
+
+00:25:53.440 --> 00:25:56.640
+however formally we do that. See everybody next time.