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authorSacha Chua <sacha@sachachua.com>2024-12-10 14:42:52 -0500
committerSacha Chua <sacha@sachachua.com>2024-12-10 14:42:52 -0500
commit93d5cbb75321b281d1a80542b930fd3cf6865f38 (patch)
treef6006795f32f29754fbace5d3554a072c0f446cc /2024/talks
parentb6d99b7aded357b26afb8713cc6fcf309a2b2ff7 (diff)
downloademacsconf-wiki-93d5cbb75321b281d1a80542b930fd3cf6865f38.tar.xz
emacsconf-wiki-93d5cbb75321b281d1a80542b930fd3cf6865f38.zip
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@@ -58,6 +58,75 @@ significant role for Emacs within the GNU Project, becoming a central
part of a "Lisp machine for the 21st century".
+# Discussion
+
+## Questions and answers
+
+- Q: About fibers: My understanding is that the problem with making Elisp concurrent is that none of the data structures (buffer, cons, vector, window etc) are concurrency-safe.  How do fibers help with this?
+ - A: Fibers do not provide thread-safety for any of the existing
+ data structures.  They are useful for building things that
+ don\'t use Emacs data structures, like a network client that
+ reads a \"stream\".  Fibers can introduce new data structures
+ that are thread-safe, like \"thread-local buffers\".
+- Q: \<ramin\> You mentnioned that Emacs is roughly 25% written in C.
+ Do you have a rough idea of how much of Guile is written in C? Could
+ it be an improvement to make libguile a dependency of Emacs?
+ - A: The problem is not the quantity of C, but that there is C
+ involved at every single level/layer of computation in Emacs. 
+ This makes it difficult to use concepts like delimited
+ continuations, that can make it easy to implement Emacs concepts
+ more simply.
+ - A: About guile: it\'s about 1/2 C.
+- Q: A Common Lisp implementation for Guile sounds really cool! Is there already work on this underway?
+ - A: Yes, Robin is working on it, but focuses more on research on
+ how to do a polyglot lisp environnement where elisp and
+ common-lisp can work together (with lisp 1 vs lisp 2 issues with
+ different name spaces, package and module system interaction,
+ \...). If you are interested, the guile project will work on it.
+- Q: As someone who\'s kinda new to the concept of Guile, is the
+ primary goal to transpile Emacs Lisp into Guile bytecode rather than
+ primarily focusing on adding support for writing code in Guile\'s
+ Scheme interface in particular? 
+ - A:
+- Q: Did switching from guile 2 to 3 give any performance benefits?
+ - A: Not benchmarking stuff here yet, because guile emacs has too
+ much overhead involved in conforming to Emacs.  Have not noticed
+ a perceptible change.  Based on the Gabriel benchmark results,
+ it might have benefited a  bit, but for Emacs we don\'t know
+ yet.  Lowering the overhead is the best place to focus on to
+ optimize guile-emacs.
+- Q: Do you know if the Emacs maintainers are interested in switching to Guile as the engine for Emacs Lisp?
+ - A: Previous maintainers were cautiously optimistic and
+ interested. Issues might be cross-platform compatibility.
+- Q: Do you think guile-emacs will be able to use or (collaborate
+ with) some of the other awesome projects around Emacs-Lisp, like the
+ gypsum project presented earlier today, or Andrea Corallo\'s efforts
+ to make Emacs-Lisp more suitable for native compilation? Or even
+ something like the renewed PreScheme efforts?
+ - A: Gypsum has a different focus. Guile tries to improve lisp
+ instead of replacing lisp in any way. But some code can be
+ shared, especially if some parts of emacs are rewritten in lisp
+ - A: For libgccjit: it is accelerating the interpreter, which is
+ not great in the first place. So no direct relationship.
+ - A: For prescheme: it  is a useful tool to look at, making it
+ easier to upstream one day.
+- Q: SBCL, \...You mentioned Robert Strandh\'s SICL along with SBCL---does that work help with the implementation of CL in Guile? 
+ - A: Time consuming part are the DSL from common lisp. So they can
+ be used. No plan on sharing code yet, as they are open-source.
+- Q: Can you comment more on relation with hoot project and advantages
+ that might bring to guile-emacs?
+ - A: Hoot is only tested on scheme decompilation. But it is a
+ completely different project. One could image compile emacs to
+ wasm and maybe with a different garbage collector.
+- Q:
+ - A:
+
+## Notes
+
+- [https://guile-emacs.org/](https://guile-emacs.org/){rel="noreferrer noopener"}
+- Some more motivation: avoid FFI to increase performance and allow
+ for more optimizations (including type annotations)
+
[[!inline pages="internal(2024/info/guile-after)" raw="yes"]]