WEBVTT
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[Speaker 0]: Again, second only live Q&A of the day.
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So, things are still a bit rusty,
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but believe me, by the end of the morning,
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we will be well-oiled machinery.
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So, hi Marcus, how are you doing?
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[Speaker 1]: I'm fine, Thank you.
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[Speaker 0]: I really liked, most people might have
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forgotten, but you started your presentation
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with the, in a very dark room and with this
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typical note of dry German humor that I
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particularly liked.
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[Speaker 1]: Whereas I told you we're born without humour
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so any sense of humour is the result of very
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hard work.
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[Speaker 0]: Well I can confirm therefore that your work
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is evident in this particular remark.
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So as we did before and perhaps this time
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more punctiliously, terrible adverb,
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that's why I'm an English major we will be
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taking questions first from the pad and then
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we'll be moving on to people in the BBV room.
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Let me just check if we have some people.
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We do have some people.
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All right, so Markus, I'm gonna ask you the
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questions in the pad unless you have
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something to remark first.
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[Speaker 1]: Yes, oh no, no, I don't have nothing to
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remark. I mean, only that we're coming to the
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end of the term here, and I think in the
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paper that I wrote, I expressed doubt that
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Emacs was good for beginners,
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but I've now gone back to an interactive
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notebook in the class without Emacs,
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and I've just missed it terribly the whole
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term. And I think I saw you walk too,
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so that's kind of interesting.
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That's it.
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[Speaker 0]: Right. All right, well,
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let's get started with the questions because
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I'm a little worried that we might acquire
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debt because of the time that we have.
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And just to be clear, so that you also know
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the time at which we're supposed to be
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finishing, the next talk here on this track
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is supposed to be at 10.40,
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which is in 13 minutes from now.
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All right, with that said,
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starting with the first questions.
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What tools do you use for making your slides?
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They are very nice and I concur.
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OrgReveal?
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[Speaker 1]: I use OrgReveal. It's a package,
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OrgReveal. I don't have the link right now,
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but it's an org mode package where You create
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some meta information and I think it's
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basically JavaScript, JavaScript package that
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will work from a bunch of different
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platforms, but it works particularly well
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from Emacs. So you use that a lot.
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[Speaker 0]: Right, yeah, I think it is definitely
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interacting with JavaScript in the background
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and it makes for a very clean presentation
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right from Emacs. I mean,
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it's not opened in Emacs unless you use a web
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browser in Emacs that supports such
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compositing but it's pretty convenient and I
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recommend looking into it.
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[Speaker 1]: I'm just going to share the URL here.
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So if anybody's interested.
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[Speaker 0]: Right, and we'll be putting all the links
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right now. So obviously right now,
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Marcus is writing inside of his own Emacs,
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but we also have the pad.
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We'll make sure that you have all the links
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accessible a little bit later.
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Okay, moving on to the next question,
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why MDPI?
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[Speaker 1]: Oh yeah, well that's a little bit of a longer
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answer, kind of boring I suppose.
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So when I came here to the US,
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I used to teach a lot of graduate courses and
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I had to suddenly teach a lot of
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undergraduate courses,
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which partly motivated this move because it
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made me realize, as I said in the
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presentation, how little the students
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understand of the underlying infrastructure
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and how important it is for them to work with
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an IDE that doesn't make coding especially
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convenient, but that teaches them a lot of
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the stuff on the side,
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you know, while still presenting a very
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smooth environment, which developers
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appreciate as well. So I came here and I used
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to publish like 4 or 5 research papers per
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year, but I didn't have the time.
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So I was contacted by MDPI.
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And it's 1 of those research paper mills,
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which seem to be springing up where authors
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can, really the institutions of the authors
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have to pay so that they can publish,
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right? So it's not really,
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and I checked them out and they seem to be
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proper peer review publishing,
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but to be absolutely sure I said,
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well, you can have my article,
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but of course for free,
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I'm not going to pay for you to publish it.
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And so that's what they did.
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They invited me and I submitted the paper and
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it was a very good process.
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That was a very, it was a good peer review
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critique. So I changed the paper quite a bit.
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It's still not a great paper.
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It's just a small case study.
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That's the kind of thing that you have a lot
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in medical research where also people don't
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have a lot of time to do research,
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proper research, which takes a very long
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time. And so that's why MDPI.
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And they are in the most of the relevant
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citation indices. So they are reputable
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enough. I mean, normally I would say for
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anybody who does anything like this,
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you might not even want to bother with the
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journal these days anymore.
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You just go straight to ArcSci,
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put out your preprint.
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And in fact, what will happen if you're on
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ArcSci, if somebody finds it interesting,
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they're going to reach out to you to capture
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your paper and have it published under their
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heading. Oh yeah, actually the other reason
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why I wanted MDPI is because there were open
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access from the start.
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And I really like, if you go to the paper,
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I really like the way it's presented.
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So I looked at a few papers and I thought
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it's a really nice online access,
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online open access solution.
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That's the long answer,
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sorry.
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[Speaker 0]: No, that was perfectly fine and you provided
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many details so it was far from a boring
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answer, let me reassure you.
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Moving on to the question,
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we only have about 8 minutes left so I'd like
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to finish those 2 questions and let people in
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the audience speak. So do you think immersion
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can be achieved on teaching other students
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with different backgrounds?
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[Speaker 1]: Oh yeah, that's a really good question.
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I had actually a discussion last night with
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my wife in bed about this,
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about the use of textbooks which are famously
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non-immersive because they're consumed away
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from the class. Very rarely you sit in class
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like people used to do and read something
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together. Maybe they did that in English.
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And that is of course instantly immersive.
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But in computer science,
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many other topics, psychology,
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you know, biology and so on,
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you cannot get immersion,
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at least not in a lecture theater.
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You get it in a lab because people solve the
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problem and then they're immersed in it.
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So, but my answer would be,
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yes, I can think totally immersion can be
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achieved anywhere, but what you have to do is
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you have to not lecture and you have to let
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students do work as you go along.
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So I used to lecture quite a bit because I
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was an insecure young professor and just read
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all my slides and my notes as I used to use,
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as everybody uses to when they start.
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But as I went along, I realized,
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you know, I've got such a grasp of the topic
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that I really everything I do now is prepared
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in Emacs in an interactive way so I start
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saying a few words and then the students
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immediately we get to work and they seem to
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love that because in most of the other
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classes people just talk at them they take
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their stuff home and work at home,
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which is of course is super.
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But most of the students,
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if they have, in at least in a liberal arts
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college, they have 5 other classes,
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they do not take a lot of time to do the work
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at home. So it's, you know,
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yeah, It's kind of different.
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It's kind of risky, yeah,
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but the main point I was trying to make is
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Emacs and Org Mode really helped me to boil
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that interactive session down to something
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that will work in the classroom.
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I don't have to jump around between
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platforms. For example,
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this term, and I didn't use Emacs in the
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class with the students,
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I had to render using a package.
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It's actually a very nice package called,
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what's it called? Ox, what's it called?
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Ox, Ox IPNB. It's called Ox IPNB.
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So what it does is it renders in the usual
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way with Emacs, Org Mode does,
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renders interactive notebook files in
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Jupyter. And that took me a lot of time.
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And I immediately noticed as soon as the
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teacher has to fight platforms themselves,
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they take the ball off the immersion task,
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you know, to keep the student on the problem.
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[Speaker 0]: Yeah. Oh, go on, please.
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Yeah. I was going to remark that.
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[Speaker 1]: So yeah, absolutely. Yeah,
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I suppose it might be MIT style.
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Big difference though,
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my classes are very, very short,
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small. So I have like between 10 and 15
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students per class. 1 of the reasons why I
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went to this college is because I was fed up
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teaching, trying to teach hundreds of
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students. Okay, sorry,
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do some of your students nag you about using
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VS Code? Yes, they do,
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but their arguments aren't very good.
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They hadn't really compared Emacs and VS
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Code. And what I do, actually I use RStudio
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as well, demonstrate VS Code,
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RStudio and Emacs. And I think it's very easy
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for them to see. And there are some videos
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about that as well, how much easier it is to
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get into Emacs to limit your investments to
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what you actually wanna do.
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When the problem with VS Code is it comes at
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you with this sort of Microsoft store
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ideology, like a gazillion plugins,
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which if you're a developer,
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you know what you want.
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And I mean, it's a bit like VS Code is like
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Google search for as if you were programming
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in Google search, a complete waste of time.
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Having said that, I've also seen some videos
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with people who really know how to use VS
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Code. And of course, you know,
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if somebody gets on the inside of a tool and
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spends upwards of a thousand hours in the
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tool, they'll be great.
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But that's not true for beginners.
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So hold on, there's another 1.
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I'm reading them, sorry.
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Leo, I can see the questions,
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but you may wanna turn them around.
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[Speaker 0]: No, No, no, please, please,
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you're free to read them.
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I'm on your fasted computer.
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[Speaker 1]: Some of you, too, that's the nagging.
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I teach simple programming at a vocational
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school, and even after showing the students
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Vim, Vim, of course, is a contender,
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and now I'm telling them I prefer Emacs.
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They still all choose VS Code as their
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editor. Well, okay, what I did is mandatory.
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I didn't let them choose.
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That's what I did. And I thought that was
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quite risky, but in the end,
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it turns out that the best students loved it
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and keep using Emacs in their jobs.
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I hear that now. The students in the middle
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were probably the ones who would pick VS Code
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because every tutorial they see,
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they learn a lot through YouTube and so
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everything they see is in VS Code.
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If there were more tutorials in Emacs,
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I'm trying to make some,
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then of course that would be different.
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But I think it's partly brainwashing and
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partly, of course, the other reason is there
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is no online Emacs. They use VS Code Dev,
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right? And that's, of course,
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they use an online cloud solution.
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Like most of the students in the high school,
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I teach Python in the high school right now,
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and the students only get Chromebooks that
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are completely cut down to nothing.
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They cannot have Linux on their Chromebooks.
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So what are they supposed to do?
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Their only choice really is Repl.
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Repl.com is a possibility for them to do
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that. But, you know, or they use code spaces,
00:12:29.060 --> 00:12:29.560
which is VS Code in GitHub.
00:12:32.300 --> 00:12:32.660
[Speaker 0]: Marcus, sorry for the interruption.
00:12:33.820 --> 00:12:34.040
We only have about 2 minutes left.
00:12:35.140 --> 00:12:35.380
So if you could take 1 question,
00:12:36.260 --> 00:12:36.760
that would be great. Sorry.
00:12:37.800 --> 00:12:38.100
[Speaker 1]: So. I'm observing the same behavior.
00:12:39.620 --> 00:12:40.080
Any more tutorials will be most welcome.
00:12:43.260 --> 00:12:43.660
Yes, I I'd love to. I spent the rest of my
00:12:45.980 --> 00:12:46.100
days on this earth making Emacs tutorials if
00:12:49.016 --> 00:12:49.267
[Speaker 0]: tutorials if I can.
00:12:49.518 --> 00:12:49.769
[Speaker 1]: I can. Thank you. DMAX Thank you.
00:12:50.540 --> 00:12:51.040
Approach to handling EDA.
00:12:52.200 --> 00:12:52.700
Oh yeah, with white data sets.
00:12:58.440 --> 00:12:58.940
Well, that's a good point.
00:13:03.080 --> 00:13:03.260
[Speaker 0]: So Markus, I don't want to put you under too
00:13:06.180 --> 00:13:06.680
[Speaker 1]: answer the question. The handling EDA,
00:13:08.460 --> 00:13:08.760
I don't know, if you look at the comments,
00:13:09.560 --> 00:13:09.960
I think these are on YouTube,
00:13:10.840 --> 00:13:11.340
right, at some point, Leo?
00:13:12.380 --> 00:13:12.600
[Speaker 0]: much pressure to Oh yes,
00:13:13.580 --> 00:13:13.860
they will definitely be on YouTube.
00:13:14.440 --> 00:13:14.540
answer the
00:13:15.420 --> 00:13:15.580
[Speaker 1]: I'm going to question you asked about the
00:13:17.360 --> 00:13:17.560
EDA, that's too long to go into right now,
00:13:20.740 --> 00:13:21.100
plus my cat is here. So I'm going to answer
00:13:22.120 --> 00:13:22.620
that in the comments, all right?
00:13:23.660 --> 00:13:24.160
Start up the conversation.
00:13:27.400 --> 00:13:27.800
Yes, I'm going to post that in the comments
00:13:27.980 --> 00:13:28.480
as well.
00:13:31.120 --> 00:13:31.500
[Speaker 0]: Sure, but Also, just to be clear,
00:13:32.480 --> 00:13:32.640
Marcus, you're going to continue the
00:13:35.320 --> 00:13:35.440
discussion. It's just a stream that will be
00:13:36.880 --> 00:13:37.160
moving on to the next talk in about 50
00:13:39.000 --> 00:13:39.380
seconds. Marcus, feel free to keep answering
00:13:40.360 --> 00:13:40.760
questions inside this room.
00:13:42.280 --> 00:13:42.780
You also have people, we're going to check
00:13:44.240 --> 00:13:44.540
aside with the stream,
00:13:46.000 --> 00:13:46.280
we have a number of people in the room.
00:13:47.800 --> 00:13:48.300
You can see them on the left on the button
00:13:50.860 --> 00:13:51.360
who are probably going to unmute themselves
00:13:52.080 --> 00:13:52.580
and ask you questions.
00:13:53.940 --> 00:13:54.440
So feel free to stay in the room,
00:13:56.680 --> 00:13:57.100
answer as lengthy as you want the questions
00:13:58.520 --> 00:13:58.700
because that's more content for us and we
00:14:01.360 --> 00:14:01.640
love it obviously. But it's just that I
00:14:03.640 --> 00:14:03.760
personally will be leaving to take care of
00:14:04.360 --> 00:14:04.860
the rest of the talks.
00:14:06.660 --> 00:14:06.880
So, Markus, do you have any last words before
00:14:07.240 --> 00:14:07.740
we move on?
00:14:09.240 --> 00:14:09.680
[Speaker 1]: No, just thank you for this wonderful...
00:14:10.580 --> 00:14:11.080
I'm going to copy this.
00:14:13.100 --> 00:14:13.280
I don't think I listened to the talk by
00:14:15.040 --> 00:14:15.200
Sascha yet, but I'm going to do that because
00:14:17.720 --> 00:14:18.080
I really want to copy this conference format.
00:14:19.740 --> 00:14:19.860
I think that is the conference format of the
00:14:21.420 --> 00:14:21.820
future, using volunteers to put together
00:14:22.860 --> 00:14:23.100
conferences. So I can't wait.
00:14:24.560 --> 00:14:24.720
Nobody wants to come to Batesville where I
00:14:25.600 --> 00:14:25.840
am, but thank you so much.
00:14:26.680 --> 00:14:27.180
That was really super professional.
00:14:27.540 --> 00:14:28.040
I love that.
00:14:31.920 --> 00:14:32.420
[Speaker 0]: Great. Okay, we are almost perfectly on time.
00:14:35.080 --> 00:14:35.420
I think we caught up about 1 or 2 seconds
00:14:36.820 --> 00:14:37.200
into the last sentence you said but otherwise
00:14:38.800 --> 00:14:38.960
we were splendidly on time.
00:14:39.760 --> 00:14:40.260
So thank you so much Marcus.
00:14:42.940 --> 00:14:43.140
[Speaker 1]: You're welcome. So I wanted to say a little
00:14:46.160 --> 00:14:46.660
bit about that question about handling EDA.
00:14:52.680 --> 00:14:52.960
[Speaker 0]: Can you see the chat on the left?
00:14:54.220 --> 00:14:54.720
Because people have started asking questions
00:14:55.680 --> 00:14:56.180
on the left. Can you see the chat?
00:14:56.366 --> 00:14:56.866
[Speaker 1]: I mean I used email. Sorry,
00:15:00.320 --> 00:15:00.820
[Speaker 0]: So you've got multiple avenues for questions.
00:15:01.093 --> 00:15:01.166
[Speaker 2]: You can
00:15:01.880 --> 00:15:02.380
[Speaker 0]: still answer questions in the chat.
00:15:03.540 --> 00:15:03.760
[Speaker 1]: sorry, sorry. Okay, I'm just going to go into
00:15:04.740 --> 00:15:05.240
that. Yeah, that's fine.
00:15:06.420 --> 00:15:06.760
[Speaker 0]: Sure, I'll need to go now.
00:15:08.260 --> 00:15:08.560
So Marcus, have a great day and I'll probably
00:15:08.860 --> 00:15:09.360
see you later.
NOTE Start of section to review
00:15:11.780 --> 00:15:12.280
[Speaker 1]: Yeah, thank you. Sorry.
00:15:15.200 --> 00:15:15.620
Bye bye. There was a question about the,
00:15:17.280 --> 00:15:17.560
I wanted to ask the answer the question about
00:15:21.380 --> 00:15:21.760
EDA, large data sets. So,
00:15:24.160 --> 00:15:24.660
I mean, I teach undergraduate now,
00:15:27.600 --> 00:15:28.100
so there's a limited number of courses,
00:15:32.100 --> 00:15:32.360
like where I use, actually have big data
00:15:35.860 --> 00:15:36.100
issues. And I mean I'm not saying that I'm
00:15:38.480 --> 00:15:38.760
not that I don't run into performance issues
00:15:40.080 --> 00:15:40.580
with Emacs. I obviously do.
00:15:43.380 --> 00:15:43.680
But like the performance issues in Emacs are
00:15:45.440 --> 00:15:45.780
comparable to performance issues for example
00:15:49.080 --> 00:15:49.580
when using R. In R everything is in memory So
00:15:52.200 --> 00:15:52.700
you are limited to the available,
00:15:55.840 --> 00:15:56.020
what is it, 2 gigabyte or whatever memory of
00:15:57.720 --> 00:15:58.180
your computer. So you would have to find
00:15:59.860 --> 00:16:00.360
other infrastructure solutions anyway.
00:16:05.540 --> 00:16:05.860
The advantage of using Emacs is that I can,
00:16:07.120 --> 00:16:07.620
within 1 Org Mode file,
00:16:09.780 --> 00:16:10.280
connect to an external database.
00:16:13.440 --> 00:16:13.840
I can even, as probably most of you know,
00:16:17.500 --> 00:16:17.860
I can even use it as a text-based web browser
00:16:20.140 --> 00:16:20.640
if I want to. So I could look at individual
00:16:26.320 --> 00:16:26.780
files. And the other point of EDA of course
00:16:30.480 --> 00:16:30.640
is that you're not supposed to look at the
00:16:32.760 --> 00:16:33.260
tables. You're supposed to get the basic
00:16:40.800 --> 00:16:41.300
frame of your data. Is there a header?
00:16:43.540 --> 00:16:43.780
What's the approximate size and stuff like
00:16:45.720 --> 00:16:45.980
that? And then you're supposed to import it
00:16:47.080 --> 00:16:47.580
into a data frame ideally,
00:16:50.760 --> 00:16:51.260
at least in portions. And I don't think,
00:16:56.040 --> 00:16:56.260
yeah, so that's it. But the full answer is
00:16:59.720 --> 00:16:59.980
that I have not done big data analysis in
00:17:01.780 --> 00:17:02.280
Emacs. So that's actually a really nice
00:17:05.900 --> 00:17:06.099
extension. I'm going to write that down as a
00:17:07.900 --> 00:17:08.260
thing to talk about in some future talk.
00:17:10.319 --> 00:17:10.819
Okay, so ADA with big data.
00:17:13.579 --> 00:17:13.940
Even though interesting would be to know what
00:17:16.160 --> 00:17:16.560
kind of size of data you're actually talking
00:17:18.800 --> 00:17:19.300
about. So I don't know,
00:17:25.740 --> 00:17:25.940
what is it, upwards of 1 terabyte or
00:17:27.099 --> 00:17:27.520
something like that, I don't know.
00:17:28.520 --> 00:17:29.020
That'd be interesting to know.
00:17:34.440 --> 00:17:34.940
Haven't done that in class.
00:17:39.960 --> 00:17:40.460
So there's another question.
00:17:42.840 --> 00:17:43.020
Proportion of students that you think would
00:17:44.480 --> 00:17:44.820
keep on using Emacs after your course?
00:17:45.660 --> 00:17:46.000
That's not a difficult question,
00:17:47.440 --> 00:17:47.880
because as I said, I have very small classes.
00:17:48.760 --> 00:17:49.200
I've been here since 2 years.
00:17:51.040 --> 00:17:51.540
So I'm in touch with almost all the students.
00:17:54.280 --> 00:17:54.760
In fact, I'm getting them work after school.
00:17:55.480 --> 00:17:55.980
So that's really cool.
00:18:00.160 --> 00:18:00.660
And everybody who took to Emacs really
00:18:03.540 --> 00:18:03.900
seriously, so probably about 25% or so keep
00:18:05.660 --> 00:18:06.160
using Emacs after, afterwards.
00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:08.360
I mean, even in the job,
00:18:09.580 --> 00:18:10.080
right, in the professional field.
00:18:12.900 --> 00:18:13.080
Who, those who keep using Emacs after the
00:18:14.760 --> 00:18:15.180
course, I think the number is greater,
00:18:16.680 --> 00:18:16.920
but I have not followed up on that.
00:18:22.800 --> 00:18:23.140
I have to, my guess is more than half,
00:18:24.860 --> 00:18:25.360
I would say, half or more than half.
00:18:27.660 --> 00:18:27.880
Oh, Aaron, thank you so much.
00:18:31.220 --> 00:18:31.320
That's very sweet. But I didn't think the
00:18:32.080 --> 00:18:32.300
presentation was great.
00:18:33.700 --> 00:18:33.840
I was thinking about redoing it,
00:18:35.200 --> 00:18:35.700
but this is actually the first take.
00:18:38.360 --> 00:18:38.860
It was late, I had lots of other stuff to do.
00:18:44.440 --> 00:18:44.700
I think what I'm more interested in than
00:18:46.760 --> 00:18:47.260
papers is probably this idea of making
00:18:50.860 --> 00:18:51.020
Emacs-based data science videos because there
00:18:51.840 --> 00:18:52.120
aren't many out there.
00:18:53.100 --> 00:18:53.600
Most of the people who do,
00:18:56.980 --> 00:18:57.240
and computer science, most people who do that
00:18:59.060 --> 00:18:59.240
are not either developers and certainly not
00:19:01.640 --> 00:19:02.080
teachers. So I think that's a good idea.
00:19:03.240 --> 00:19:03.740
I'm gonna pick that up.
00:19:15.040 --> 00:19:15.540
So to do more Remax based data science videos
00:19:19.700 --> 00:19:20.200
Is there anything else?
00:19:22.260 --> 00:19:22.360
More people. There are some people here in
00:19:22.800 --> 00:19:23.300
the room still.
00:19:25.600 --> 00:19:26.100
[Speaker 2]: If you do a PSVL on work.
00:19:30.640 --> 00:19:31.140
What? Or wiki. What's my YouTube channel?
00:19:35.720 --> 00:19:36.220
[Speaker 1]: Oh, yeah, I'm going to give you the,
00:19:38.160 --> 00:19:38.520
I've got a bunch of different YouTube
00:19:40.580 --> 00:19:40.720
channels. I'm going to put them in the
00:19:42.740 --> 00:19:43.240
comments to my talk. Hold on,
00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:46.500
the 1 where I have the latest Emacs videos,
00:19:48.480 --> 00:19:48.740
you find my name, there's nobody in the world
00:19:50.560 --> 00:19:51.060
with my name. So if you look for Gerten Krag
00:19:55.240 --> 00:19:55.740
on YouTube, then you will find it.
00:20:00.060 --> 00:20:00.320
[Speaker 2]: But I got a bunch of them.
00:20:01.440 --> 00:20:01.940
Hold on, I'm going to give you the...
00:20:19.540 --> 00:20:20.040
[Speaker 1]: My channel. Okay, This 1 has only got a few
00:20:23.800 --> 00:20:24.300
videos. But so there's 1 with a lot more.
00:20:32.220 --> 00:20:32.720
Few recent videos. And I'm going to post
00:20:41.120 --> 00:20:41.320
more. Other ones in the comments of this
00:20:43.840 --> 00:20:44.340
video. Okay, what else?
00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:51.140
I'm trying to find my way back to the button.
00:20:58.980 --> 00:20:59.200
Okay, cool. Oh, yes, thank you.
00:21:01.220 --> 00:21:01.500
I will. That's very good.
00:21:02.780 --> 00:21:03.120
Thank you so much. Of course,
00:21:05.440 --> 00:21:05.940
I use Vork. I hadn't even thought of it.
00:21:14.640 --> 00:21:15.140
Very good. It's interesting,
00:21:17.520 --> 00:21:18.020
that's something that comes to my mind.
00:21:19.200 --> 00:21:19.700
When I was a young student,
00:21:23.800 --> 00:21:24.020
right, people who used Emacs and the web
00:21:25.420 --> 00:21:25.920
wasn't particularly large.
00:21:29.180 --> 00:21:29.440
So the volunteers would automatically make
00:21:30.920 --> 00:21:31.420
videos but not for commercial purposes.
00:21:34.400 --> 00:21:34.740
Now you have an army of people who make
00:21:37.200 --> 00:21:37.700
commercial videos and the videos are usually
00:21:40.560 --> 00:21:41.040
good for the first 10% of every content,
00:21:42.340 --> 00:21:42.540
but as soon as it gets a little more
00:21:44.620 --> 00:21:44.760
difficult, they either don't know what to do
00:21:48.420 --> 00:21:48.600
anymore or they don't do it because it's not
00:21:50.820 --> 00:21:50.980
commercially viable. The number of people who
00:21:53.520 --> 00:21:53.680
move on is gets smaller and smaller and
00:21:55.240 --> 00:21:55.740
smaller. So there's no commerce anymore.
00:21:57.340 --> 00:21:57.840
But when I was a student,
00:22:00.480 --> 00:22:00.980
pretty much all the documentation everywhere
00:22:01.880 --> 00:22:02.380
was created by volunteers,
00:22:04.640 --> 00:22:04.840
just like this conference or like anything in
00:22:09.320 --> 00:22:09.480
org mode. And that doesn't seem to be much of
00:22:12.260 --> 00:22:12.760
a trend anymore, but maybe we can resurrect
00:22:22.360 --> 00:22:22.500
it. So, yes, I'm definitely going to
00:22:25.640 --> 00:22:25.840
contribute to that. Multiple people are
00:22:30.540 --> 00:22:31.040
typing here. Oh, sorry.
00:22:35.680 --> 00:22:36.180
Yes. Thank you so much.
00:22:40.760 --> 00:22:40.920
I'm gonna put that, I'm gonna rectify that in
00:22:44.920 --> 00:22:45.260
the comment. Having said that,
00:22:49.320 --> 00:22:49.820
I am not 100% sure that I didn't lie here.
00:22:52.480 --> 00:22:52.760
May just be because I didn't have much time
00:22:53.860 --> 00:22:54.340
to put the presentation together.
00:22:56.480 --> 00:22:56.820
And it's perfectly possible that that's
00:22:59.280 --> 00:22:59.780
actually Google slides and not all reveal.
00:23:02.120 --> 00:23:02.320
In the classroom when I present and just do
00:23:03.600 --> 00:23:04.100
lectures, I always do reveal,
00:23:07.400 --> 00:23:07.900
but most of the time I do a tree slide.
00:23:10.520 --> 00:23:10.840
That's the quickest way to do it for me.
00:23:14.640 --> 00:23:15.060
So, so presentation. Hold on,
00:23:16.080 --> 00:23:16.580
Let me just copy this 1.
00:23:20.320 --> 00:23:20.820
Make sure that this doesn't get lost.
00:23:22.700 --> 00:23:23.200
Thank you so much for that.
00:23:25.600 --> 00:23:26.100
And presentations in class.
00:23:29.820 --> 00:23:30.320
I use sometimes org-present,
00:23:32.360 --> 00:23:32.860
but there are issues with the font sometimes.
00:23:36.560 --> 00:23:36.960
I use Treeslide most of the time and Org
00:23:44.220 --> 00:23:44.720
[Speaker 2]: tool.
00:23:46.560 --> 00:23:46.780
[Speaker 1]: Reveal. But this 1 is my top Of course,
00:23:48.640 --> 00:23:49.140
this is not org, so forget about that.
00:24:07.720 --> 00:24:08.220
Okay. Yeah, so you can send me your,
00:24:11.680 --> 00:24:12.160
you've got my email, I think,
00:24:13.780 --> 00:24:14.060
on the end, if you're interested in following
00:24:15.860 --> 00:24:16.360
up or letting me know about your stuff.
00:24:17.720 --> 00:24:18.220
It might be interesting to,
00:24:19.840 --> 00:24:20.060
I don't know, might be interesting to put
00:24:21.540 --> 00:24:22.040
together a conference or a little seminar
00:24:22.500 --> 00:24:23.000
just for educators.
00:24:38.770 --> 00:24:39.025
DF is still typing, I'm waiting.
00:24:39.280 --> 00:24:39.780
I'm waiting.
00:24:45.920 --> 00:24:46.420
[Speaker 2]: Actually, our mod maintainer,
00:24:51.860 --> 00:24:52.280
Bastian, was talking about the possibility to
00:24:53.620 --> 00:24:54.120
have just an Org Mod conference.
00:24:59.020 --> 00:24:59.200
But the question is, is it worth making a
00:25:02.440 --> 00:25:02.940
[Speaker 1]: A whole separate 1 what?
00:25:04.740 --> 00:25:05.020
[Speaker 2]: whole separate 1? A whole separate org
00:25:09.100 --> 00:25:09.600
[Speaker 1]: Oh, I see. Yeah, probably would be.
00:25:10.840 --> 00:25:11.340
Actually.
00:25:13.660 --> 00:25:13.940
[Speaker 2]: dedicated conference. It's just like you see
00:25:15.480 --> 00:25:15.980
how EmacsConf is well done.
00:25:19.080 --> 00:25:19.440
So it's like creating anything that as good
00:25:25.040 --> 00:25:25.540
[Speaker 1]: Yes. No, I think that's a good idea.
00:25:26.120 --> 00:25:26.620
Yeah, I mean.
00:25:30.100 --> 00:25:30.480
[Speaker 2]: as tricky. I mean, Okay,
00:25:32.560 --> 00:25:32.920
it's anywhere, like half of Emacs is anywhere
00:25:36.380 --> 00:25:36.880
remote. So it's almost the same.
00:25:39.960 --> 00:25:40.200
[Speaker 1]: Yeah. Well, I suppose at this point,
00:25:41.260 --> 00:25:41.580
I don't know if that's what you mean,
00:25:44.820 --> 00:25:45.040
Org Mode is probably what attracts people to
00:25:46.620 --> 00:25:47.060
Emacs in the first place.
00:25:50.540 --> 00:25:51.040
Like, I suppose Org Roam is the,
00:25:54.140 --> 00:25:54.600
maybe the biggest 1 for people even outside
00:25:57.540 --> 00:25:58.040
of computer science. I use Org.ROM
00:26:07.380 --> 00:26:07.560
for everything. I think the maintainer or
00:26:08.660 --> 00:26:09.140
maybe the creator of Org.MODE
00:26:11.460 --> 00:26:11.740
has claimed and said for many years that Org
00:26:13.940 --> 00:26:14.220
Mode itself doesn't actually necessarily need
00:26:16.440 --> 00:26:16.940
Emacs. You can have it as a completely
00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:18.660
separate application as well.
00:26:20.600 --> 00:26:21.020
But for a number of reasons,
00:26:23.300 --> 00:26:23.440
I don't like that. I really like the idea to
00:26:30.420 --> 00:26:30.660
[Speaker 2]: why- The current strategy is that It has to
00:26:33.420 --> 00:26:33.580
be Emacs because the configurability is 1 of
00:26:34.700 --> 00:26:35.140
the strong points anyway.
00:26:35.400 --> 00:26:35.800
[Speaker 1]: have it inside Emacs. The reason That's true.
00:26:37.120 --> 00:26:37.620
[Speaker 2]: You cannot make a separate application.
00:26:39.640 --> 00:26:39.800
[Speaker 1]: No, that's true. I was going to say that.
00:26:40.960 --> 00:26:41.460
The thing is you use the flexibility.
00:26:42.720 --> 00:26:43.220
Plus, you also use the,
00:26:45.800 --> 00:26:46.080
I don't know if that's the right word,
00:26:48.380 --> 00:26:48.760
but you use there's something about the free
00:26:52.420 --> 00:26:52.600
ideology of Emacs that is what attracted me
00:26:55.760 --> 00:26:56.260
to it in the first place when I was younger
00:26:59.620 --> 00:27:00.120
and that I find even more important now.
00:27:02.980 --> 00:27:03.480
So what they say the community aspect,
00:27:08.600 --> 00:27:08.800
the reason, the main reason why Python is so
00:27:12.620 --> 00:27:13.120
big today, really. So yeah.
00:27:17.440 --> 00:27:17.860
[Speaker 2]: But in terms of going out of Emacs,
00:27:20.800 --> 00:27:21.300
it's org syntax that is supposed to be like
00:27:22.760 --> 00:27:23.260
breaking out of Emacs.
00:27:28.340 --> 00:27:28.540
Yeah. So like there's a plan to lay out the
00:27:30.720 --> 00:27:30.920
actual standard document so that you can
00:27:32.040 --> 00:27:32.540
register the format officially.
00:27:34.440 --> 00:27:34.760
[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I think I've heard that too.
00:27:36.060 --> 00:27:36.560
I've not followed up on it much.
00:27:38.820 --> 00:27:39.320
I don't know what the,
00:27:40.760 --> 00:27:41.260
I mean, that probably would,
00:27:43.520 --> 00:27:43.780
it would very likely, if you do that,
00:27:45.060 --> 00:27:45.380
it would at least for a short time,
00:27:47.160 --> 00:27:47.660
strengthen org mode and weaken emacs.
00:27:50.380 --> 00:27:50.880
I don't know what other examples,
00:27:54.180 --> 00:27:54.680
if there are other examples of applications
00:27:57.560 --> 00:27:57.840
pulled out of IDEs like that.
00:27:58.940 --> 00:27:59.440
I'm not aware of any others.
00:28:02.420 --> 00:28:02.660
[Speaker 2]: Actually, people are trying to make
00:28:04.700 --> 00:28:04.920
three-seater drama, people are trying to make
00:28:05.740 --> 00:28:06.120
like some external parsers,
00:28:09.920 --> 00:28:10.320
a lot of them. And a lot of stuff is done on
00:28:11.820 --> 00:28:12.320
mobile part, like Android,
00:28:13.820 --> 00:28:14.320
iOS, especially recently.
00:28:18.480 --> 00:28:18.980
So things that are Emacs independent are
00:28:22.940 --> 00:28:23.040
[Speaker 1]: Okay, yeah. I have no doubt that there is a
00:28:26.120 --> 00:28:26.620
[Speaker 2]: demanded. Especially in the environment,
00:28:27.540 --> 00:28:28.040
like every time.
00:28:30.480 --> 00:28:30.680
[Speaker 1]: demand. Yeah. I mean, I didn't get into that
00:28:34.640 --> 00:28:35.020
very much. I have some of my students have 0
00:28:36.400 --> 00:28:36.900
affinity with computers.
00:28:39.720 --> 00:28:39.900
They really don't know their way around their
00:28:43.820 --> 00:28:44.320
computers at all. And so for them,
00:28:50.980 --> 00:28:51.440
It is quite important to learn how to find
00:28:56.380 --> 00:28:56.520
your way around Emacs because it's like a
00:28:57.320 --> 00:28:57.820
little operating system,
00:29:00.060 --> 00:29:00.300
but it's not. It's an operating system
00:29:03.460 --> 00:29:03.960
without much of the obscurity.
00:29:07.760 --> 00:29:07.960
And the alternative to that would be to
00:29:10.040 --> 00:29:10.520
simply let them work only on the command
00:29:11.980 --> 00:29:12.480
line, which is another possibility.
00:29:16.040 --> 00:29:16.160
But, you know, there of course you are
00:29:20.200 --> 00:29:20.520
limited with regard to if you want to swap
00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:23.500
languages. So for example,
00:29:25.900 --> 00:29:26.000
quite often I find myself in the situation I
00:29:28.660 --> 00:29:28.780
teach data science in R and Python and in
00:29:31.360 --> 00:29:31.520
Emacs org mode I can demonstrate both of
00:29:34.600 --> 00:29:35.100
these side by side in the same file.
00:29:38.200 --> 00:29:38.700
And that's a great advantage.
00:29:42.040 --> 00:29:42.540
Not to overburden the students when they are
00:29:44.900 --> 00:29:45.100
at the beginning with things that you don't
00:29:47.120 --> 00:29:47.620
want them to necessarily learn about.
00:29:50.560 --> 00:29:51.000
And plus the thing what I like as a graduate
00:29:54.240 --> 00:29:54.400
student when I stepped onto Emacs was that it
00:29:59.960 --> 00:30:00.140
was infinite possibilities to lose myself in
00:30:02.640 --> 00:30:03.060
Emacs and you know go on and learn more stuff
00:30:06.180 --> 00:30:06.340
about it. But it's such a long time ago that
00:30:09.860 --> 00:30:10.360
I barely dare to mention it anymore.
00:30:12.500 --> 00:30:12.880
[Speaker 2]: For command line, actually,
00:30:16.820 --> 00:30:17.080
it's since the Jupyter notebooks and that
00:30:18.880 --> 00:30:19.380
Google thing they are running.
00:30:23.640 --> 00:30:23.820
It's getting so popular that it's clear that
00:30:26.600 --> 00:30:26.760
command line is just losing in popularity in
00:30:31.420 --> 00:30:31.920
[Speaker 1]: well, yes and no. I mean,
00:30:32.860 --> 00:30:33.360
[Speaker 2]: this. Yeah, of course,
00:30:38.160 --> 00:30:38.400
Not the usage. People are still using it,
00:30:38.400 --> 00:30:38.900
obviously.
00:30:40.520 --> 00:30:41.020
[Speaker 1]: I mean, in Google Colab,
00:30:43.440 --> 00:30:43.620
only the paid version allows you to go to the
00:30:44.960 --> 00:30:45.460
terminal and use the command line.
00:30:48.140 --> 00:30:48.580
But of course, the traction,
00:30:49.640 --> 00:30:50.140
and I think that's kind of interesting,
00:30:54.560 --> 00:30:54.680
1 of the reasons why IPython or any of the
00:30:56.780 --> 00:30:56.960
Jupyter notebooks are so cool is because you
00:30:59.440 --> 00:30:59.940
can use a lot of shell commands from the
00:31:04.620 --> 00:31:05.100
IPython shell. There's a whole bunch of magic
00:31:06.460 --> 00:31:06.960
commands which are quite powerful.
00:31:09.620 --> 00:31:10.120
The 1 that comes to mind is a time,
00:31:11.820 --> 00:31:12.320
the time command, for example,
00:31:13.580 --> 00:31:14.080
you know, it gives you a really nice,
00:31:16.400 --> 00:31:16.800
performance, quick performance check.
00:31:17.660 --> 00:31:18.120
There's a bunch of different,
00:31:20.500 --> 00:31:20.900
I think probably close to a hundred magic
00:31:22.340 --> 00:31:22.840
commands that you can use in Jupyter.
00:31:25.600 --> 00:31:25.840
But I don't know JupyterLab too well,
00:31:28.840 --> 00:31:29.220
but I noticed that the companies that do
00:31:30.920 --> 00:31:31.080
online training, And they are usually the
00:31:34.600 --> 00:31:34.920
ones that are closest to what beginners want,
00:31:35.600 --> 00:31:36.100
especially in business.
00:31:40.780 --> 00:31:40.960
And what those companies do is they take
00:31:43.040 --> 00:31:43.220
JupiterLab and turn it into a presentation of
00:31:44.300 --> 00:31:44.800
their own. Another 1 is Notable,
00:31:47.380 --> 00:31:47.880
notable.io. That's another 1.
00:31:50.280 --> 00:31:50.500
They took JupyterLab and turned it into
00:31:52.080 --> 00:31:52.200
something commercial. It's boosted up a
00:31:58.680 --> 00:31:58.860
little bit. And so the shell inside the
00:32:01.680 --> 00:32:01.960
JupyterLab has some of the most more
00:32:03.120 --> 00:32:03.620
important shell properties.
00:32:05.800 --> 00:32:06.000
And so people still use the command line
00:32:07.200 --> 00:32:07.600
without knowing that they use the command
00:32:12.600 --> 00:32:13.100
line. But I also like doing,
00:32:14.820 --> 00:32:15.320
how do I use org-roam?
00:32:21.900 --> 00:32:22.020
Well, I use it, I do not have not used it
00:32:22.720 --> 00:32:23.000
with the students yet,
00:32:24.800 --> 00:32:25.020
only the best students have sort of seen me
00:32:29.440 --> 00:32:29.760
use it and copied it. But I use it probably
00:32:31.680 --> 00:32:32.000
in a very naive, trivial way.
00:32:33.080 --> 00:32:33.580
I can't say that I am,
00:32:36.460 --> 00:32:36.960
that I have a very sophisticated use.
00:32:39.480 --> 00:32:39.640
I basically, I like the fact that,
00:32:42.940 --> 00:32:43.100
I mean, it's built on the original concept of
00:32:44.280 --> 00:32:44.540
the, with the German word,
00:32:47.900 --> 00:32:48.280
Zettelkasten, right? Which is that you do not
00:32:50.780 --> 00:32:50.940
have to think about a taxonomy because as you
00:32:53.620 --> 00:32:53.800
move along, your taxonomy changes all the
00:32:55.200 --> 00:32:55.580
time. You know, what you think is important
00:32:56.820 --> 00:32:57.320
at the beginning, your root node,
00:32:58.480 --> 00:32:58.940
as you go along, you realize,
00:33:00.220 --> 00:33:00.600
oh, that's not the root node at all.
00:33:02.560 --> 00:33:02.720
There's a higher level and a higher level and
00:33:04.540 --> 00:33:04.780
some of the lower levels aren't at the lower
00:33:05.860 --> 00:33:06.280
level, they're actually at the higher level.
00:33:09.960 --> 00:33:10.460
So you're beginning to create hierarchies
00:33:13.940 --> 00:33:14.280
that are out of date as soon as you create
00:33:16.260 --> 00:33:16.360
the hierarchy. So what is the idea of the
00:33:18.340 --> 00:33:18.480
tittle custom is that anything that comes to
00:33:20.600 --> 00:33:21.100
your mind you can throw in the custom the box
00:33:26.240 --> 00:33:26.540
it literally means Box of notes and That's
00:33:27.560 --> 00:33:27.740
what I appreciate about it.
00:33:32.780 --> 00:33:32.920
So I create a I create a note pretty much for
00:33:35.280 --> 00:33:35.780
anything I do, but I've only used it for
00:33:37.660 --> 00:33:38.160
about a year and a half or so,
00:33:39.240 --> 00:33:39.740
or grown, maybe a year.
00:33:43.380 --> 00:33:43.700
So I can see that I'm coming up against the
00:33:46.480 --> 00:33:46.980
Zettelkasten or note box problems,
00:33:50.660 --> 00:33:50.860
which is that I've got so many notes now that
00:33:52.460 --> 00:33:52.960
unless I have clever aliases,
00:33:56.580 --> 00:33:56.680
there is a chance that I might forget that I
00:33:59.540 --> 00:34:00.040
[Speaker 2]: That's why you need meta-notes.
00:34:01.100 --> 00:34:01.600
[Speaker 1]: have a note. So I need a- Yes,
00:34:04.420 --> 00:34:04.920
[Speaker 2]: In other words, a summarization is important,
00:34:06.300 --> 00:34:06.800
no matter what system you use.
00:34:09.600 --> 00:34:09.719
[Speaker 1]: yes. But what I'm trying to say is that's a
00:34:10.760 --> 00:34:11.260
different approach than hierarchies,
00:34:13.280 --> 00:34:13.580
right? It's the same, it's the same,
00:34:15.460 --> 00:34:15.960
it's the same principle as a relational
00:34:18.219 --> 00:34:18.719
database versus a hierarchical database.
00:34:23.179 --> 00:34:23.360
Same thing. So, yeah, I've not used that.
00:34:25.199 --> 00:34:25.400
I've not really used, actually I have cut
00:34:26.520 --> 00:34:27.020
meta notes, of course I do.
00:34:28.500 --> 00:34:28.940
So notes that point to other notes.
00:34:31.920 --> 00:34:32.320
Yes, of course. I use those.
00:34:32.780 --> 00:34:33.280
I have forgotten that.
00:34:38.300 --> 00:34:38.800
I have not taught that part to the students
00:34:42.340 --> 00:34:42.840
because I do project work with the students,
00:34:46.080 --> 00:34:46.360
but there's only so much time.
00:34:47.719 --> 00:34:48.219
I'm already, I mean, already,
00:34:50.800 --> 00:34:50.980
I don't think there's any class that where I
00:34:55.320 --> 00:34:55.820
am able to use more than 30% of my material.
00:34:57.400 --> 00:34:57.620
And the reason is that when the students come
00:34:59.120 --> 00:34:59.220
to class, which is I pointed out in the
00:35:00.600 --> 00:35:01.100
video, they know so little.
00:35:03.280 --> 00:35:03.720
And most of the students,
00:35:04.680 --> 00:35:04.960
at least in liberal arts,
00:35:09.780 --> 00:35:10.280
spend just too little time outside of class,
00:35:11.440 --> 00:35:11.600
getting there, you know,
00:35:12.660 --> 00:35:13.040
drilling down into the,
00:35:14.140 --> 00:35:14.640
into the, into the infrastructure,
00:35:16.700 --> 00:35:17.060
into the work. Only, only the best students
00:35:18.820 --> 00:35:19.320
do that. The ones that really catch fire.
00:35:21.960 --> 00:35:22.280
[Speaker 2]: Don't you have something like a course
00:35:23.260 --> 00:35:23.760
project at the end?
00:35:25.460 --> 00:35:25.760
[Speaker 1]: Yes, I have course, not at the end.
00:35:27.340 --> 00:35:27.720
I use Scrum. Maybe I shouldn't,
00:35:29.140 --> 00:35:29.640
but I've used Scrum for many years.
00:35:32.440 --> 00:35:32.600
So I have course projects that start at the
00:35:35.080 --> 00:35:35.320
beginning and they do sprint reviews every 3
00:35:40.380 --> 00:35:40.640
or 4 weeks. So term end projects I find
00:35:42.880 --> 00:35:43.100
completely useless because the students do
00:35:44.760 --> 00:35:45.260
the work at the very end of the term.
00:35:49.600 --> 00:35:49.740
[Speaker 2]: By term end I mean they don't start at the
00:35:51.380 --> 00:35:51.880
end, they just report at the end.
00:35:53.800 --> 00:35:54.300
[Speaker 1]: I use the IMRAD, I use the IMRAD method.
00:35:57.720 --> 00:35:58.220
So I use IMRAD, basically IMRAD plus,
00:35:59.900 --> 00:36:00.300
plus Scrum, right? So,
00:36:01.720 --> 00:36:02.220
So the first sprint review is introductory,
00:36:02.980 --> 00:36:03.480
the research proposal,
00:36:04.540 --> 00:36:05.040
the second 1 is about methodology,
00:36:05.880 --> 00:36:06.360
the third 1 about results,
00:36:07.540 --> 00:36:08.040
and the last 1 is their final presentation.
00:36:10.600 --> 00:36:11.100
And so that's the way I manage the projects,
00:36:15.760 --> 00:36:16.020
but that's about as much as I can do with
00:36:17.380 --> 00:36:17.680
them. It's a good idea.
00:36:19.280 --> 00:36:19.780
I hadn't even thought about using Org-ROM
00:36:22.640 --> 00:36:22.760
with them, but to teach them that might be a
00:36:23.680 --> 00:36:24.180
good idea, actually.
00:36:26.720 --> 00:36:27.220
[Speaker 2]: Well, for Org-ROM, actually,
00:36:32.060 --> 00:36:32.340
what I found useful during my graduate is for
00:36:34.240 --> 00:36:34.740
literature review. Yes.
00:36:37.080 --> 00:36:37.340
The other part of our program that is not
00:36:39.520 --> 00:36:40.020
about your like, noting down your thoughts,
00:36:42.340 --> 00:36:42.840
is about writing about literature notes.
00:36:44.860 --> 00:36:45.180
[Speaker 1]: Yeah, that's a good idea,
00:36:45.780 --> 00:36:46.060
actually. And of course,
00:36:47.660 --> 00:36:47.960
I mean, there's more stuff that they should
00:36:49.700 --> 00:36:50.140
learn, you know, like another 1,
00:36:51.280 --> 00:36:51.780
since you mentioned literature,
00:36:54.140 --> 00:36:54.640
you know, latex and Bibtech is another
00:36:57.340 --> 00:36:57.840
obvious extension of that.
00:37:01.020 --> 00:37:01.120
But that is actually a good idea because the
00:37:02.720 --> 00:37:03.080
literature is what they have the hardest time
00:37:06.560 --> 00:37:06.980
[Speaker 2]: Yeah, like when you need to read like 50
00:37:06.980 --> 00:37:07.480
papers.
00:37:12.260 --> 00:37:12.480
[Speaker 1]: with. Last term, since you mentioned that,
00:37:16.020 --> 00:37:16.220
I had a really nice experience because 1 of
00:37:17.800 --> 00:37:18.300
our librarians, our digital librarian,
00:37:19.480 --> 00:37:19.920
came along and talked to the students,
00:37:21.300 --> 00:37:21.580
and he taught me about a tool called
00:37:23.040 --> 00:37:23.540
litmap.com, which is basically,
00:37:24.920 --> 00:37:25.420
I don't know how it's implemented,
00:37:26.680 --> 00:37:27.180
but it's basically a graph,
00:37:31.380 --> 00:37:31.620
a graph representation of papers organized by
00:37:35.080 --> 00:37:35.580
citation. It's very, very cool.
00:37:38.160 --> 00:37:38.560
And the students who used to only find,
00:37:40.520 --> 00:37:41.020
I don't know, 1 paper and otherwise,
00:37:44.440 --> 00:37:44.940
of course, 15 YouTube videos and 100 blogs,
00:37:48.860 --> 00:37:49.360
suddenly started finding and reading
00:37:51.960 --> 00:37:52.120
scientific papers. It was only because of
00:37:54.400 --> 00:37:54.900
this presentation. So you should take the,
00:37:57.060 --> 00:37:57.560
I think, I hope that is the right,
00:37:59.060 --> 00:37:59.560
that's the right mode,
00:38:01.940 --> 00:38:02.380
litmaps. Okay, it's not litmap,
00:38:05.500 --> 00:38:05.640
it's called Litmaps. I'm gonna give you an
00:38:08.860 --> 00:38:09.000
example. I don't know if I can share this,
00:38:09.840 --> 00:38:10.240
if you can look at that.
00:38:13.140 --> 00:38:13.640
But basically you create a,
00:38:16.080 --> 00:38:16.580
1 can use 1 of your papers as a seed,
00:38:18.340 --> 00:38:18.840
and then it will create a graph,
00:38:21.260 --> 00:38:21.760
graph representation of it for you.
00:38:24.720 --> 00:38:25.220
And this is a powerful tool in itself.
00:38:27.100 --> 00:38:27.600
But what I'm saying is that the students
00:38:30.700 --> 00:38:30.860
suddenly, their use of literature and that
00:38:32.120 --> 00:38:32.620
citation goes to the roof.
00:38:35.800 --> 00:38:36.140
And I've been waiting for that for probably
00:38:37.760 --> 00:38:38.260
15 years since I've started teaching.
00:38:42.900 --> 00:38:43.400
So it's crazy. That's really cool.
00:38:47.440 --> 00:38:47.720
[Speaker 2]: So here is the same tool,
00:38:48.900 --> 00:38:49.400
it's called connected papers.
00:38:53.040 --> 00:38:53.540
It's based on the open source citation data.
00:38:55.840 --> 00:38:56.340
[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I know that as well,
00:38:56.680 --> 00:38:57.180
I think.
00:39:01.240 --> 00:39:01.480
[Speaker 2]: It's actually very useful when you just start
00:39:03.680 --> 00:39:03.960
learning the topic, it's like you find 1
00:39:05.320 --> 00:39:05.800
paper, then you look into the connections,
00:39:07.900 --> 00:39:08.260
you can quickly narrow down to the most
00:39:09.760 --> 00:39:10.260
cited, the core papers on the topic.
00:39:12.340 --> 00:39:12.520
[Speaker 1]: Of course, and that is exactly their
00:39:14.640 --> 00:39:14.820
situation, you know, and they're always at
00:39:16.240 --> 00:39:16.740
the beginning. As you go on,
00:39:18.420 --> 00:39:18.680
you develop different ways,
00:39:19.640 --> 00:39:20.140
but for these complete beginners,
00:39:22.500 --> 00:39:22.680
that's a good idea. Thank you so much for
00:39:30.020 --> 00:39:30.520
[Speaker 0]: anything else?
00:39:31.820 --> 00:39:31.940
[Speaker 1]: that. Okay, guys, I've enjoyed the
00:39:33.460 --> 00:39:33.960
conversation, so you should definitely,
00:39:37.440 --> 00:39:37.940
I'm going to take some of these things away.
00:39:41.840 --> 00:39:42.280
Thank you so much for that.
00:39:45.240 --> 00:39:45.740
Have you done, Yanta, have you done org mode
00:39:47.700 --> 00:39:48.200
documentations yourself on WOC?
00:39:51.820 --> 00:39:52.120
Or do you have a sort of a favorite 1?
00:39:53.160 --> 00:39:53.600
I mean, I often on walk,
00:39:56.480 --> 00:39:56.740
I often use the documentation for code
00:39:59.440 --> 00:39:59.620
blocks. I used to when I started doing that
00:40:02.320 --> 00:40:02.800
[Speaker 2]: Yeah, because it's only on work.
00:40:03.760 --> 00:40:04.260
It's not part of the manual.
00:40:05.140 --> 00:40:05.280
[Speaker 1]: for the first time. Yeah,
00:40:06.940 --> 00:40:07.440
yeah. And so I've used that a lot.
00:40:09.060 --> 00:40:09.560
[Speaker 2]: Have I done? Not really,
00:40:10.960 --> 00:40:11.460
mostly fixing the errors.
00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:15.560
Okay. Yeah, I think that's a really good
00:40:15.560 --> 00:40:16.060
idea.
00:40:19.280 --> 00:40:19.780
[Speaker 1]: All right. Well, thank you very much.
00:40:22.040 --> 00:40:22.360
And it's great to be at this conference.
00:40:23.940 --> 00:40:24.440
I think I'm going to get on.
00:40:28.740 --> 00:40:29.240
[Speaker 2]: Thanks for answering all the questions.
00:40:32.400 --> 00:40:32.560
And for the talk, It was quite interesting to
00:40:35.160 --> 00:40:35.660
see our modules in actual teaching.
00:40:38.240 --> 00:40:38.560
[Speaker 1]: Yes, thank you. And I got to thank Daniel
00:40:40.600 --> 00:40:40.840
German from Canada, the 1 of,
00:40:43.580 --> 00:40:43.660
I had him on 1 of the slides because he,
00:40:45.140 --> 00:40:45.350
he inspired me to do that.
00:40:47.420 --> 00:40:47.540
And, and I wouldn't be at the conference if I
00:40:49.280 --> 00:40:49.480
hadn't contacted him and said oh here's my
00:40:50.860 --> 00:40:51.020
paper and he said oh you should come to the
00:40:52.540 --> 00:40:52.680
conference and so that's why I came to the
00:40:58.200 --> 00:40:58.480
conference. Thank you very much and as they
00:41:03.860 --> 00:41:04.104
say keep in touch. You're welcome.
00:41:04.836 --> 00:41:05.080
Okay bye-bye. You're welcome.
00:41:15.480 --> 00:41:15.820
Okay, bye-bye. Take a copy of the chat before
00:41:22.020 --> 00:41:22.360
you go, if you can. Happy weekend to just bye
00:41:22.360 --> 00:41:22.860
bye.
00:41:36.660 --> 00:41:36.840
[Speaker 2]: You are currently the only person in this
00:41:36.840 --> 00:41:37.340
conference.
