WEBVTT
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[Speaker 0]: Here.
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[Speaker 1]: All right. Yeah. So thanks,
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Fermin, for the great talk.
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People have questions,
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please post them on the pad or the IRC as
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well and we'll take them up.
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[Speaker 2]: Thank you very much. The guests will be here
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to answer questions. Let's see.
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Yep.
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[Speaker 1]: And also, Fermin, if you later want to
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clarify anything or fix any URLs or such,
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you're always welcome to do that either like
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on the Wiki page, or if you like email any of
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the organizers, they should be able to help
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with that as well.
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[Speaker 2]: Okay. Yeah, I put the wrong URL.
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Yeah, not a big deal really,
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if you look it up. Yeah,
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that's really better. Thank you very much.
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Checking, no questions.
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Very good to be in touch.
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[Speaker 1]: Oh, we have a question here in the big blue
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button chat.
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[Speaker 2]: Oh, public chat. I see.
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Is LEM an acronym? I think it is,
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but I never remember. The complete name is
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like something... It's also a circle,
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like, you know, a self-referencing,
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you know, recursive name.
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I never remember it, sorry.
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It's like... Yeah, someone...
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Okay, someone asked about the DEM community,
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how big it is. So I don't remember,
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to answer the question,
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I don't remember the acronym,
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but it is an acronym. I just never...
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And it's not written anywhere,
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I think, or someone...
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I never check it. So I...
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[Speaker 0]: I forgot.
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[Speaker 2]: My maintainer told me once and then So,
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whole large, does Leia have a package
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manager? We do have a package manager,
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funnily enough. We use the QuickLisp
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infrastructure to get packages,
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so it's very easy to install packages.
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So basically, we don't have a package manager
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as in Emacs, half a packet.l.
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We're using the same common list
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infrastructure to provide the different
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packages. We also have a talk with the
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Ultralisp, which is like a,
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you know, QuickLisp is like,
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you can think quickly of Melpa.
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Ultralisp is like a fast Melpa,
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very fast Melpa, that every,
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I think every day you can get a package from
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them. And We have a tag system that you can
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submit a package and get a tag,
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and Theory can download those packages with
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the lem tag. So the thing is,
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it's not yet, it doesn't have a user
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interface to install packages.
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Still, it's 2 external packages.
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For now, imagine this is like the early
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Emacs, right? Everything is going to the core
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for now, because we need that functionality.
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In the future, we probably will split it up
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way more. But let me first answer a question
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in the other part. How large is the LEN
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community? Hope it's a chance of survival
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long term. So we are a very small community,
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mostly because Sasaki-san,
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the main developers of the community,
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are from Japan and some of them,
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or most of them, don't know English.
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At the beginning, LEM was a very
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Japanese-centric tooling because barrier of
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language, most of the users are from Japan.
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So different communities.
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And also, I don't know why,
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but the main maintainer,
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which is Asaki-san, very good guy and a very,
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very talented developer.
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He doesn't like to, you know,
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at first the project was all in Japanese,
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so he doesn't care if someone uses the
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project or not. He's more focused on the,
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I guess, quality of the features of it.
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So that creates a problem that doesn't really
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mind the community. So the community doesn't
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mind in a good way. It's to focus more on
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technicality rather than the user,
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which I mean, I cannot blame him.
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It's very hard work to build an Emacs and
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editor from scratch. It's not a trivial task.
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So yeah, we're a very small community.
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But I think the chance of survival is very
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good because LEM is written in ANSI Common
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Lisp, so it should be used in any...
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Well, it works in a lot of Common Lisp
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implementation. For people who don't know,
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Common Lisp is a language that was
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standardized in the 94.
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I explained that in the talk,
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but I'll say it again.
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So, if Common Lisp exists,
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in theory, LEM should also exist.
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And also if nCursor doesn't break or doesn't
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stop to exist, which is even less likely.
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So that's the main idea.
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And you can use LEM for very good Common Lisp
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development already. If Common Lisp doesn't
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change that much, it should disappear.
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We are not bound to any company or any...
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Even Sasaki-san, God forbid,
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disappears instantaneously.
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There are a few people,
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me included, that know very well the code
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base and we can continue the development.
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So it's not like 1, there's no one-man
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project. Maybe a four-man project or 5,
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but not 1. Okay, I'll answer the 1 in the
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chat, on the blue button.
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Is it best to learn Common Lisp before
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learning to use LEM? I think this is similar
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to Emacs and EmacLisp,
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right? Should you use EmacLisp before using
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Emacs? Doesn't make too much sense,
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right? You see Emacs and then you go learning
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Common Lisp. I think it's the same,
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sorry, EmacsLisp. And it's the same with LEM.
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You can start using LEM with a non-common
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Lisp, which is fine. You can use it to edit
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your things. It's like an editor.
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But like Emacs, LEM puts a lot of focus on
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extensibility. So it's very probable that you
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will learn how to write Common Lisp.
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I have to say that a lot of people that use
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LEM, well, me and most of the people,
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come from Emacs. So if you come from Emacs
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and you know a little bit of Emac Lisp,
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Common Lisp is like an uncle or cousin
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distance that shares some similarities.
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So you will... Well, it's not going to be
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that. I can show... Sorry about that.
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For example, I show that in the...
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I can show... So the...
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It's not that different from Emacs regarding
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configuration. So for example,
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this command doesn't exist on LEM.
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And Sasaki-san didn't want to copy one-to-one
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the command from Emacs,
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the airgrip, the cursor grip command of
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Emacs. And I said, okay,
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then I'm going to implement it myself.
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And it's something like this,
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which is you will do something similar to
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Emacs, right? This will be like things at
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point symbol or something like that.
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And then you have a prompt,
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very prompt for directory with Emacs would be
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something similar. And then you then launch
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grep with the command that you want.
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This is not that far from Emacs,
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this, really. If you don't know neither of
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those, you can still use LEM,
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though as with Emacs, extensibility will be,
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well, you couldn't extend it if you don't
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know combo disp. Should I answer the question
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on the etherpad writing it at the same time?
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[Speaker 1]: You're welcome to, but you don't have to.
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You can just answer here on stream,
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[Speaker 2]: on the Google button. Okay.
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Okay. Are there any Lisp machine capabilities
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you're trying to provide that GNU image
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lacks? The type objects capability in the
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editor, as an example.
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I mean, there were a few discussions about
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the Lisp machines and LEM and all the big
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projects that tries to get some capability of
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it. But we don't really...
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We try to improve the development experience
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for Common Lisp and for LEM,
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imitating a lot of things that the Lisp
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machine had. I'm going to try to do a thing
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that I don't know if it's going to work.
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So to explain this, let's see.
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I'm going to recompile them now live.
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Let's see how it works.
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And compiling the, yes,
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it doesn't work. OK. What if I do?
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No, it doesn't work. OK.
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I was trying to compile the SDL2,
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but I do have the codebase modifier.
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I should be able to compile this.
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Oh, that was really bad.
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What about example? I have the code base,
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so let me check. I'm going to do this.
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Oh, yeah, I have this modified.
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I stash this. OK. I have this modified.
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Now it should work. OK.
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Sorry. I was going to show the writing
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capabilities of it, similar to the Lisp
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machine of navigating of classes.
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So the answer of that question is,
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not really. We don't try to emulate this
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machine, nor any like of that.
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But yeah. Let me, I'm going to try to,
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okay, now I'm back at them.
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Okay. So what about using them for things
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other than common, common,
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that markets? Okay. So yes,
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we do have, so I'm going to show the code
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base a little bit. Like I said before,
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we don't have yet too much external packages
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because of the size of the community.
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I have a question. Go ahead,
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you can write it, Michael.
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Yeah. So, yes, as you can see here,
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this is almost all, or 99% of the major modes
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we have. We use the same terminology of
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SkinnyMemax in that way.
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For example, the C mode,
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if you go inside, you see that this is the
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fine major mode. So in that regard,
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it's very similar to Emacs.
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And we have something called a JIT,
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which is like a maggot.
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And you can edit files.
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You can use not only for common lists.
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In my configuration, which is written,
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I will post that later,
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but if you go to my code burg you can see my
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configuration which is,
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which I do have. So for example you can use
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it for a scheme. We have a swank server.
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This is the configuration to use it.
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You can use it for JavaScript because we have
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a native LSP client written in.
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And we have Dired. Yeah,
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this is Dired. We have Dired indeed.
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No, it's not Dired, you know.
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It's called directory.
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Sasaki-san, which is the main maintainer,
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doesn't like to copy one-to-one Emacs names,
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but we are the same. We also have projects,
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which is like projectile.
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So, you know, they're very similar but not
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the same. We also have a VI configuration,
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as you can see. I'm using the VI commands and
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stuff, and it's very good.
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I will say not as good as an evil because it
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still needs some polish,
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but it's getting there.
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So we can also program in JavaScript and a
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lot of LSP things, and Elixir,
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which was recently added by myself.
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And yeah, it's very fun to add new modes.
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OK, what else next? What about user-level
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things other than coding?
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What about using this in conjunction with
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Nix? Oh, so there's a big,
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so like I said before,
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there were like an issue that 3 main common
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list project were talking,
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some of the users. So the 3 main projects are
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LEM, probably, Nixed, and then StamWM,
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the 3 main, well, 3 big,
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common list projects that are trying to
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emulate an Emacs experience in different
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fields. 1 is Editor, the other 1 is Window
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Manager, and the 1 is the browser.
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The problem is that the design of the 3 are
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very different. So Nix is very focused on the
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browser. You can connect to Nix.
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So given that they're both a common list,
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you can connect to Nix from them and vice
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versa. And you can send commands and you can,
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so you have this kind of interoperability
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with both. But no, you cannot combine both to
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have 1 LEMNIX. That would be very sick.
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I would love it. But the effort is just too
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much. Keep in mind we are a very small
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community. The LEM, like I said,
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we are like 345 developers that write
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packages and answer questions and stuff.
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Now we need users in that way to test things.
00:14:58.480 --> 00:14:58.820
So what is the license of LEM?
00:15:00.480 --> 00:15:00.980
The license of LEM is MAT.
00:15:02.860 --> 00:15:03.180
We have some components of all the various
00:15:04.480 --> 00:15:04.980
licenses, but the main 1 is MAT.
00:15:07.160 --> 00:15:07.660
I didn't choose the license of it.
00:15:11.320 --> 00:15:11.820
I would highly prefer a more like GPL 1,
00:15:13.500 --> 00:15:14.000
but like I said I'm not a maintainer,
00:15:15.860 --> 00:15:16.360
so the license is MAT.
00:15:19.820 --> 00:15:20.320
This question, I realize,
00:15:22.120 --> 00:15:22.200
how far is LEM from being able to remove a
00:15:26.500 --> 00:15:26.940
list libraries? OK, that's a big question
00:15:30.660 --> 00:15:30.920
indeed. And Funny enough,
00:15:31.800 --> 00:15:32.300
2 years ago in the EmacsConf,
00:15:34.340 --> 00:15:34.700
I talk about this, not with LEM,
00:15:36.340 --> 00:15:36.480
but with Common Lisp and Emacs Lisp in
00:15:41.880 --> 00:15:42.100
general. So I'm not the only 1 thinking about
00:15:44.100 --> 00:15:44.240
this. In fact, I'm talking with someone that
00:15:46.740 --> 00:15:46.960
is trying to write like a Emacs Lisp
00:15:48.120 --> 00:15:48.620
interpreter to work with them.
00:15:52.240 --> 00:15:52.740
The thing is that Emaclist libraries,
00:15:55.080 --> 00:15:55.580
so the API is just very different.
00:15:57.720 --> 00:15:58.220
That's the main problem.
00:15:58.940 --> 00:15:59.440
That's really the problem.
00:16:02.320 --> 00:16:02.820
You can, so you can, let me see.
00:16:13.380 --> 00:16:13.880
So, you can have an Emacs list buffer of LEM.
00:16:15.420 --> 00:16:15.920
This is an Emacs list rebel.
00:16:21.380 --> 00:16:21.560
I wrote an LRSP client so you can connect to
00:16:23.140 --> 00:16:23.560
Emacs and send things and stuff.
00:16:25.160 --> 00:16:25.660
So you're friends that we share stuff.
00:16:28.340 --> 00:16:28.840
But having a complete Emacless implementation
00:16:37.400 --> 00:16:37.600
with LEM and work with both API will be a
00:16:42.240 --> 00:16:42.600
huge work. Very like, it's even if they share
00:16:43.680 --> 00:16:44.180
very similar thing, in fact,
00:16:46.480 --> 00:16:46.980
API in some places is very similar.
00:16:48.540 --> 00:16:49.040
Down the line infrastructure,
00:16:52.220 --> 00:16:52.720
so the code is, so it's completely different.
00:16:56.680 --> 00:16:56.840
It will be very hard. We do have a clone of
00:16:58.940 --> 00:16:59.440
maggot that works, more or less.
00:17:01.440 --> 00:17:01.940
Well, it does work, but maggot's just better.
00:17:03.340 --> 00:17:03.820
But it's getting there.
00:17:05.020 --> 00:17:05.460
So like I said, we're trying to,
00:17:06.220 --> 00:17:06.720
not to copy one-to-one,
00:17:09.640 --> 00:17:10.140
but to adapting each tool to LEM.
00:17:13.260 --> 00:17:13.760
How are LEM buffer designs similar to Emacs?
00:17:19.700 --> 00:17:20.020
So yeah, that would be,
00:17:21.260 --> 00:17:21.760
so how a blend buffer design,
00:17:24.780 --> 00:17:25.280
similar to Emacs. So similar in what way,
00:17:26.319 --> 00:17:26.819
actually with properties.
00:17:29.180 --> 00:17:29.480
I think that you've seen,
00:17:31.220 --> 00:17:31.560
so you do have like a font lock,
00:17:32.420 --> 00:17:32.920
different kind of properties,
00:17:37.820 --> 00:17:38.040
but it's not exactly how Emac does it with
00:17:41.740 --> 00:17:42.180
overlays and stuff. You can,
00:17:43.080 --> 00:17:43.580
so if you're very interested,
00:17:45.300 --> 00:17:45.800
I don't want to go too much deep into the,
00:17:51.500 --> 00:17:51.720
let me go to, I don't want to go too much
00:17:55.380 --> 00:17:55.760
deep into the technicality of things now,
00:17:57.920 --> 00:17:58.080
but you can go. So LEM is written 100% in
00:18:00.040 --> 00:18:00.380
Common Lisp. So if you know Common Lisp,
00:18:03.900 --> 00:18:04.040
you can go to buffer. You can check all the
00:18:08.520 --> 00:18:09.020
codes here. Always we have,
00:18:12.780 --> 00:18:13.280
we also have this, which is like StreamX.
00:18:17.860 --> 00:18:18.360
Sorry to that, I don't.
00:18:21.900 --> 00:18:22.400
But yeah, So you can see.
00:18:24.440 --> 00:18:24.940
So yeah, if you go to the code base,
00:18:26.780 --> 00:18:27.280
maybe some of you can check this problem.
00:18:28.500 --> 00:18:29.000
Well, not problem, but yeah.
00:18:30.340 --> 00:18:30.840
That's this Japanese comment.
00:18:35.560 --> 00:18:36.060
You can see here why it's very,
00:18:38.000 --> 00:18:38.300
you have to translate and stuff,
00:18:39.560 --> 00:18:40.060
which is sometimes a little bit annoying.
00:18:44.540 --> 00:18:45.040
But yeah, some of them are in English.
00:18:47.020 --> 00:18:47.440
So this play is not the same.
00:18:48.800 --> 00:18:49.200
So if you're interested,
00:18:51.200 --> 00:18:51.400
you can go to the buffer and check it out for
00:18:53.480 --> 00:18:53.600
yourself. But I think it uses the overlay in
00:18:58.620 --> 00:18:58.900
a different way. So the implementation is
00:19:04.800 --> 00:19:05.020
different that way. Oh,
00:19:10.875 --> 00:19:11.375
[Speaker 0]: This module. Oh, this is very low.
00:19:12.560 --> 00:19:13.060
[Speaker 2]: this is fairly low. What other things or
00:19:15.559 --> 00:19:15.600
experiences that I can show you?
00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:16.420
Just like you show you.
00:19:18.120 --> 00:19:18.620
Any marks?
00:19:32.860 --> 00:19:33.360
Okay, very interesting question.
00:19:34.000 --> 00:19:34.500
What are the things...
00:19:37.460 --> 00:19:37.960
So that's interesting.
00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:43.220
Let me see. So forgive me,
00:19:49.660 --> 00:19:49.760
you answered this. I talked briefly in the
00:19:53.560 --> 00:19:53.780
talk about this, but basically I like
00:19:55.840 --> 00:19:56.340
Komaldisp, I have the mascot here.
00:19:58.040 --> 00:19:58.540
[Speaker 3]: a very
00:20:04.740 --> 00:20:04.840
[Speaker 2]: It's Italian thing. I like Common Lisp and I
00:20:08.640 --> 00:20:08.800
think GmagLisp is a very good friend of
00:20:10.240 --> 00:20:10.520
Common Lisp in the way that Serious Software
00:20:11.840 --> 00:20:12.340
Analysis is a very good uncle.
00:20:18.800 --> 00:20:19.300
Let me answer first the 1.
00:20:24.140 --> 00:20:24.620
So I like to extend it in Common Lisp.
00:20:25.640 --> 00:20:26.140
I like the Common Lisp libraries.
00:20:30.100 --> 00:20:30.360
And I think them have a better design in
00:20:31.220 --> 00:20:31.720
terms of its 1 language,
00:20:33.480 --> 00:20:33.980
which I think is a nice strength.
00:20:36.580 --> 00:20:36.660
Like, 1 of the things that put me off when I
00:20:38.680 --> 00:20:39.020
was using Emacs, I love to extend the editor
00:20:40.600 --> 00:20:41.100
and to go inside and stuff.
00:20:43.360 --> 00:20:43.520
And 1 of the things that I'm not a big fan of
00:20:44.820 --> 00:20:45.020
C. If you're a fan of C,
00:20:47.040 --> 00:20:47.240
you will be very pleasant with finding C
00:20:50.440 --> 00:20:50.660
stuff, but I don't. So when I'm trying to
00:20:52.340 --> 00:20:52.840
hack an Emacs and go inside the things,
00:20:54.140 --> 00:20:54.640
I will control C code.
00:20:56.200 --> 00:20:56.660
That's not that interactive as the Emaclist
00:20:59.340 --> 00:20:59.840
1, and that would be like a fuzzball for me.
00:21:03.740 --> 00:21:04.080
I was always dreaming about that stuff,
00:21:05.320 --> 00:21:05.820
having like everything in 1 language.
00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:08.160
The thing that LEM does to me is like it
00:21:12.100 --> 00:21:12.560
allows me to extend the editor to modify
00:21:14.160 --> 00:21:14.660
also, to modify in Common Lisp.
00:21:17.660 --> 00:21:18.160
Also, I like the language and technology.
00:21:19.600 --> 00:21:19.900
It's a bold thing, right?
00:21:21.480 --> 00:21:21.980
It's a world language that I love,
00:21:23.740 --> 00:21:24.240
and Emacs that I love.
00:21:25.380 --> 00:21:25.880
Emacs, I'm a big fan of,
00:21:27.160 --> 00:21:27.520
or a user of GNU Emacs.
00:21:29.380 --> 00:21:29.880
And LEM is like Emacs plus Common Lisp,
00:21:30.600 --> 00:21:30.900
but with a different design.
00:21:32.360 --> 00:21:32.860
I don't want to, It's not a clone.
00:21:37.800 --> 00:21:38.040
I want to get this very clear that LEM is not
00:21:40.760 --> 00:21:41.140
a clone of Emacs. The sign is very different
00:21:43.180 --> 00:21:43.500
in a lot of ways. But it's very inspired,
00:21:44.380 --> 00:21:44.880
and that cannot be denied.
00:21:48.280 --> 00:21:48.780
[Speaker 1]: I can jump in for a second.
00:21:51.120 --> 00:21:51.360
I think we're like 15 minutes into the lunch
00:21:52.660 --> 00:21:53.040
break, but you're welcome to continue
00:21:55.600 --> 00:21:55.760
answering questions. But if anyone on the
00:21:57.500 --> 00:21:58.000
stream or folks want to go grab lunch,
00:21:59.760 --> 00:21:59.860
feel free to do that. I'm probably going to
00:22:01.880 --> 00:22:02.040
do that as well. But yeah,
00:22:03.760 --> 00:22:03.920
we can either continue keeping this on the
00:22:06.180 --> 00:22:06.440
stream, or if people would like to come join
00:22:08.600 --> 00:22:09.100
here on BigBlueButton and talk to Fermin,
00:22:11.040 --> 00:22:11.540
like folks have already done that,
00:22:12.440 --> 00:22:12.940
yeah, you're welcome to.
00:22:14.620 --> 00:22:15.120
[Speaker 2]: Yeah, go ahead. No problem.
00:22:16.500 --> 00:22:17.000
Thank you. Thank you, Vitaliy.
00:22:25.160 --> 00:22:25.280
Cheers. Cheers. So finishing the answer to
00:22:30.080 --> 00:22:30.380
the question, I think LEM does tries to fix
00:22:31.880 --> 00:22:32.380
some Emacs problems, can we fix problems
00:22:35.200 --> 00:22:35.700
regarding the internal API,
00:22:37.200 --> 00:22:37.480
which makes sense, right?
00:22:39.060 --> 00:22:39.560
Emacs have like 40 years,
00:22:42.280 --> 00:22:42.780
which is a lot. And yeah,
00:22:44.760 --> 00:22:45.060
which is, that's what makes me happy.
00:22:47.480 --> 00:22:47.720
I use both now. I use Maggis and Emacs for
00:22:50.200 --> 00:22:50.460
some languages and then I use LEM for Common
00:22:51.100 --> 00:22:51.600
Lisp and other languages.
00:22:55.240 --> 00:22:55.740
You can also use LEM for EmacLisp,
00:22:59.760 --> 00:22:59.960
which makes LEM the second best editor for
00:23:02.360 --> 00:23:02.860
EmacLisp. It was a funny thing to do.
00:23:05.980 --> 00:23:06.100
OK, so do you think LEM will continue to have
00:23:06.760 --> 00:23:07.260
a lot of Japanese documentation?
00:23:11.720 --> 00:23:12.180
So there's not that many Japanese
00:23:12.780 --> 00:23:13.280
documentation, really.
00:23:18.280 --> 00:23:18.480
So there's a few comments here and there,
00:23:20.800 --> 00:23:20.920
but it's not full. We have a web page with a
00:23:22.020 --> 00:23:22.520
lot of documentation in English.
00:23:25.380 --> 00:23:25.880
So you can take a look at that.
00:23:29.080 --> 00:23:29.580
But we do have to improve the documentation
00:23:30.260 --> 00:23:30.760
and translate it to English.
00:23:32.220 --> 00:23:32.440
Sasaki-san is up to it,
00:23:35.460 --> 00:23:35.960
but he just doesn't feel that comfortable
00:23:36.600 --> 00:23:37.100
translating it himself.
00:23:38.680 --> 00:23:39.180
So yeah.
00:23:42.720 --> 00:23:43.220
[Speaker 3]: So, this is Peter on BigBlueWem.
00:23:49.620 --> 00:23:50.120
Yeah, it's neat that Wem even exists,
00:23:55.520 --> 00:23:55.940
because there's always chatter on the Emacs
00:23:58.980 --> 00:23:59.280
mailing list to rewrite Emacs and some other
00:24:03.920 --> 00:24:04.120
language. And to see that it's already to see
00:24:05.320 --> 00:24:05.820
that I mean, you have an implementation
00:24:08.360 --> 00:24:08.560
sitting there and, and the thing I was
00:24:10.600 --> 00:24:10.960
wondering while I was listening in on the,
00:24:14.060 --> 00:24:14.460
on the Q and A was do you have Dured?
00:24:15.400 --> 00:24:15.700
Do you have Maggot? And some,
00:24:17.100 --> 00:24:17.600
somebody else wrote that question into,
00:24:20.460 --> 00:24:20.640
into Etherpad. But I was happy to see that
00:24:22.800 --> 00:24:23.000
you have Dured or something like it
00:24:24.960 --> 00:24:25.440
implemented. Because I think that's like the,
00:24:27.040 --> 00:24:27.180
for me, that's the most important thing in
00:24:30.800 --> 00:24:31.000
Emacs because that gets me around in my
00:24:35.200 --> 00:24:35.380
[Speaker 2]: BRODINKOVICH Yeah, for me too.
00:24:35.740 --> 00:24:36.240
For me too.
00:24:37.100 --> 00:24:37.260
[Speaker 0]: Go ahead.
00:24:37.740 --> 00:24:37.940
[Speaker 3]: system. VICTOR Sorry. Yeah,
00:24:39.680 --> 00:24:40.160
so I may try it out sometime,
00:24:42.040 --> 00:24:42.540
but probably won't be for like 3 or 6 months,
00:24:45.060 --> 00:24:45.240
because there's always a backlog of other
00:24:46.560 --> 00:24:47.060
things to try out.
00:24:49.800 --> 00:24:50.300
[Speaker 4]: I'm the 1 who wrote that question.
00:24:54.020 --> 00:24:54.520
And do you use, I think you have bookmarks
00:24:55.380 --> 00:24:55.800
and registers, I imagine,
00:24:55.800 --> 00:24:56.300
right?
00:24:59.700 --> 00:25:00.060
[Speaker 2]: I think you have. I never tried bookmarks
00:25:01.220 --> 00:25:01.400
because I don't use it that much.
00:25:02.560 --> 00:25:03.060
But I think you have something like that.
00:25:05.420 --> 00:25:05.840
I mean, I don't. There's a few features that
00:25:07.360 --> 00:25:07.540
I don't know about them because I don't use
00:25:08.680 --> 00:25:08.980
it much. Some features,
00:25:11.580 --> 00:25:11.840
I mean. But yeah, I think you have.
00:25:13.100 --> 00:25:13.380
Let me check. We can check,
00:25:16.620 --> 00:25:17.120
probably. Things in extensions,
00:25:23.140 --> 00:25:23.480
just directory. VNXT. Directory mode.
00:25:28.950 --> 00:25:29.450
So there is. So this is the Tyrant's friend.
00:25:31.780 --> 00:25:32.230
I won't say clone. Very inspired.
00:25:36.580 --> 00:25:36.900
[Speaker 4]: What about like on the note-taking front,
00:25:38.440 --> 00:25:38.940
like org mode,
00:25:41.040 --> 00:25:41.380
[Speaker 2]: You know. note... Yes,
00:25:50.440 --> 00:25:50.940
so... EMMS... Yes, so someone did some MMS.
00:25:58.380 --> 00:25:58.620
So not MMS, not much. So package for LEM that
00:26:00.060 --> 00:26:00.400
is now in a pull request,
00:26:03.800 --> 00:26:04.300
I think. But yeah, no.
00:26:06.800 --> 00:26:07.300
The thing is I don't use R mode that much.
00:26:11.980 --> 00:26:12.480
We don't have a heavy R mode user to provide
00:26:15.020 --> 00:26:15.300
some major mode and stuff.
00:26:18.160 --> 00:26:18.600
So we don't have that implemented yet.
00:26:20.580 --> 00:26:20.900
The thing is, my plans for,
00:26:22.360 --> 00:26:22.860
I do have plans for our mode.
00:26:24.020 --> 00:26:24.520
They're a little bit evil,
00:26:26.200 --> 00:26:26.700
but there's plans for it.
00:26:27.800 --> 00:26:28.040
So I'm planning to use,
00:26:30.000 --> 00:26:30.060
so rewriting our mode is a big task that I
00:26:34.200 --> 00:26:34.700
don't want to do. So I'm going to use Emacs
00:26:39.020 --> 00:26:39.520
for our mode in 2.11. I wrote a recipe,
00:26:45.060 --> 00:26:45.380
no, a remote procedural RPC that I'm using
00:26:46.860 --> 00:26:47.360
for the Red Bull and stuff.
00:26:51.000 --> 00:26:51.200
And I'm planning to have an Emacs Puppet to
00:26:54.720 --> 00:26:55.220
provide me the functionality for Org Mode.
00:26:59.380 --> 00:26:59.760
[Speaker 4]: I know for me, when I write notes,
00:27:01.640 --> 00:27:01.940
I like to note more than Org Roam just
00:27:06.340 --> 00:27:06.840
because I feel Org Mode is great and all,
00:27:08.920 --> 00:27:09.060
but if all my notes are in it,
00:27:10.260 --> 00:27:10.760
I kind of feel trapped by it.
00:27:14.460 --> 00:27:14.960
I did the talk journaling in KOutline,
00:27:17.800 --> 00:27:18.040
and I like that package better for some
00:27:21.040 --> 00:27:21.260
things and it's like if I want to put like
00:27:24.280 --> 00:27:24.780
the tags on PDF file names and so it's like
00:27:28.940 --> 00:27:29.100
Yeah, it's great and all but it's also Is
00:27:31.560 --> 00:27:31.740
that part of the motivation of wanting to use
00:27:34.620 --> 00:27:35.120
lamb is so you feel less entrapped by emacs
00:27:38.445 --> 00:27:38.840
No, I will say I don't no.
00:27:40.620 --> 00:27:41.120
[Speaker 2]: No, no. I was very happy trapping to Emacs.
00:27:47.100 --> 00:27:47.560
To be fair. The thing is I don't use Hormel
00:27:48.600 --> 00:27:49.100
that much. That's just the reality.
00:27:52.120 --> 00:27:52.580
Org Mode for me is a very good markup
00:27:54.660 --> 00:27:54.810
language, but not that much really.
00:27:56.920 --> 00:27:57.420
I know that Org Mode has a lot of people and
00:27:58.740 --> 00:27:59.060
it's used by a lot of people.
00:28:00.060 --> 00:28:00.560
And there's very interesting packages.
00:28:03.700 --> 00:28:04.200
[Speaker 4]: What about org mode versus markdown versus
00:28:05.800 --> 00:28:06.300
plain text versus latex then?
00:28:08.480 --> 00:28:08.860
[Speaker 2]: I like org mode because of the Emacs
00:28:10.380 --> 00:28:10.880
functionality. I think if you take that away,
00:28:15.600 --> 00:28:16.100
you plain or mode versus Markdown,
00:28:17.720 --> 00:28:18.080
I don't think there's that much difference,
00:28:19.960 --> 00:28:20.460
if you take the Emacs functionality away.
00:28:24.560 --> 00:28:24.880
I like the
00:28:27.260 --> 00:28:27.760
[Speaker 4]: Yeah. Emacs syntax more than Markdown.
00:28:29.640 --> 00:28:29.900
Like, for instance, you have the double
00:28:31.720 --> 00:28:31.960
square brackets, which is simpler for me to
00:28:32.500 --> 00:28:33.000
look at, but.
00:28:35.820 --> 00:28:36.060
[Speaker 2]: Yeah, I guess it's a matter of,
00:28:38.400 --> 00:28:38.640
I mean, we don't have yet a major mode of R
00:28:39.800 --> 00:28:40.300
mode, which will be quite trivial.
00:28:42.660 --> 00:28:43.160
Well, you know, a simple syntax highlights,
00:28:46.040 --> 00:28:46.540
you know, R mode in LEM,
00:28:52.460 --> 00:28:52.960
because no 1 wrote it.
00:28:55.320 --> 00:28:55.640
I mean, that's the way with this project,
00:29:00.060 --> 00:29:00.360
right? If you need people to be motivated to
00:29:04.120 --> 00:29:04.620
do that. And with LEM,
00:29:06.540 --> 00:29:07.040
someone asked about the Japanese.
00:29:11.320 --> 00:29:11.820
I think they're interested about that.
00:29:15.040 --> 00:29:15.420
LEM does have a thing,
00:29:16.030 --> 00:29:16.095
[Speaker 0]: If the it would be good.
00:29:16.800 --> 00:29:17.160
[Speaker 4]: I'd be able to do more,
00:29:18.000 --> 00:29:18.500
but that's what I
00:29:19.370 --> 00:29:19.870
[Speaker 0]: was doing.
00:29:22.420 --> 00:29:22.820
[Speaker 2]: they think True. So, for example,
00:29:24.240 --> 00:29:24.740
we're using another big fan of...
00:29:27.840 --> 00:29:28.080
I mean, I know that the main people that may
00:29:30.280 --> 00:29:30.780
use in the future LEM are EMACLIS people.
00:29:33.080 --> 00:29:33.580
A lot of them. It's very similar.
00:29:37.540 --> 00:29:37.940
And Sasaki-san and the LEM community mainly
00:29:43.260 --> 00:29:43.760
uses Discord for chat and stuff.
00:29:46.980 --> 00:29:47.480
I mean, we do have matrix,
00:29:48.540 --> 00:29:48.640
and I should connect to it,
00:29:54.960 --> 00:29:55.320
by the way. But we mainly use Discord,
00:29:58.080 --> 00:29:58.580
which I don't think is a good thing.
00:30:01.900 --> 00:30:02.300
I mean, to have the main communication
00:30:05.020 --> 00:30:05.520
channels, Discord. Because,
00:30:09.020 --> 00:30:09.520
well, it's Discord. It's a closed source
00:30:13.180 --> 00:30:13.440
application that is easy for some people,
00:30:14.340 --> 00:30:14.840
but for some people it's a tailbreak.
00:30:17.040 --> 00:30:17.080
[Speaker 0]: are in
00:30:17.580 --> 00:30:18.080
[Speaker 2]: Especially people that the Emacs community
00:30:20.080 --> 00:30:20.580
that very like free software.
00:30:22.800 --> 00:30:23.300
[Speaker 4]: The only good thing about Molesley is it's
00:30:26.000 --> 00:30:26.380
popular, but as soon as you break out of that
00:30:28.380 --> 00:30:28.520
mold, all of a sudden it becomes a lot
00:30:30.400 --> 00:30:30.900
harder. For instance, they don't have...
00:30:33.820 --> 00:30:34.320
All the third-party clients are unofficial
00:30:37.340 --> 00:30:37.500
and according to their terms of service they
00:30:40.380 --> 00:30:40.600
can just can you. Which is not a nice
00:30:44.020 --> 00:30:44.180
position to be in if you're trying to use it
00:30:47.200 --> 00:30:47.700
and you wanted to be a moderator using some
00:30:50.600 --> 00:30:51.100
side tools that weren't Discord.
00:30:55.320 --> 00:30:55.560
[Speaker 2]: I agree 100% and in fact I'm not a big fan,
00:30:56.400 --> 00:30:56.900
I don't like Discord.
00:31:03.860 --> 00:31:04.360
[Speaker 5]: You mentioned the RPC you did between Emacs
00:31:06.200 --> 00:31:06.700
and the LEM. Do you have it published
00:31:06.720 --> 00:31:07.220
somewhere?
00:31:13.520 --> 00:31:14.020
[Speaker 2]: Yes, it's in the LEM project.
00:31:15.820 --> 00:31:16.320
I'll copy that in the chat.
00:31:19.000 --> 00:31:19.340
[Speaker 5]: Okay, because I'm always interested in how
00:31:21.560 --> 00:31:22.060
you do like the communication with other
00:31:24.020 --> 00:31:24.320
programs with Emacs because that's
00:31:24.320 --> 00:31:24.820
interesting.
00:31:30.140 --> 00:31:30.640
[Speaker 2]: I'm only using the porthole package,
00:31:32.460 --> 00:31:32.960
I'm not writing it from scratch,
00:31:34.340 --> 00:31:34.840
not that much as a developer.
00:31:37.540 --> 00:31:37.960
[Speaker 5]: So I don't know this package.
00:31:39.140 --> 00:31:39.640
Maybe that's the thing I can learn.
00:31:40.840 --> 00:31:41.140
[Speaker 2]: Oh yeah, probably if you,
00:31:42.360 --> 00:31:42.740
yeah. Yeah. If you want to,
00:31:43.860 --> 00:31:44.360
so I didn't see this 1,
00:31:46.420 --> 00:31:46.920
this package for the RSP,
00:31:48.620 --> 00:31:49.120
which make is monthly automatically.
00:31:53.200 --> 00:31:53.600
[Speaker 5]: And how do you do, how do you plan to
00:31:59.180 --> 00:31:59.440
integrate Org Mode? Because Org Mode needs to
00:31:59.760 --> 00:32:00.260
work on.
00:32:03.340 --> 00:32:03.540
[Speaker 2]: This way? Yes, so I'm planning to have like a
00:32:08.260 --> 00:32:08.760
Emacs puppet and to have like a clone buffer
00:32:11.320 --> 00:32:11.820
from the buffer that you do in LEM and then
00:32:16.880 --> 00:32:17.380
the command sent into the Emacs hidden buffer
00:32:19.820 --> 00:32:20.140
and then the changes go back to LEM to change
00:32:22.660 --> 00:32:23.160
the buffer of LEM. That's my idea.
00:32:24.960 --> 00:32:25.460
[Speaker 5]: Okay, that's all. It's interesting.
00:32:28.320 --> 00:32:28.540
Would be interesting to see what comes from
00:32:28.540 --> 00:32:29.040
it.
00:32:32.280 --> 00:32:32.780
[Speaker 2]: It's a bit, it's a hackish 100%.
00:32:35.200 --> 00:32:35.320
It's not, you have to duplicate the
00:32:36.020 --> 00:32:36.520
information and stuff,
00:32:38.940 --> 00:32:39.140
which is, oh, by the way,
00:32:40.320 --> 00:32:40.820
I'm going to pass the Lemington,
00:32:43.380 --> 00:32:43.880
which is the name of the RSP clone.
00:32:45.980 --> 00:32:46.480
Sorry, the integration with Emacs,
00:32:48.900 --> 00:32:49.400
which is LEM with a mustache.
00:32:54.400 --> 00:32:54.600
[Speaker 4]: They had good news where it would do the same
00:32:56.360 --> 00:32:56.860
thing, where it would open up a slave Emacs,
00:33:00.020 --> 00:33:00.520
because it was such a performance hog for
00:33:02.140 --> 00:33:02.640
retrieving all the emails.
00:33:06.940 --> 00:33:07.360
[Speaker 2]: No. I mean, Emacs have a server,
00:33:08.559 --> 00:33:08.860
right? I can, in fact,
00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:11.700
I'm using that for, I'm already puppeting.
00:33:13.340 --> 00:33:13.620
Well, not puppeting. I'm already using
00:33:15.700 --> 00:33:16.200
Maggots. So I have this.
00:33:17.400 --> 00:33:17.900
Actually, let me copy.
00:33:25.600 --> 00:33:25.920
I have this, which is usually a little bit,
00:33:28.080 --> 00:33:28.420
I'm launching the Emacs daemon and then I'm
00:33:31.500 --> 00:33:31.740
launching Leviton. And then this is the kill
00:33:32.300 --> 00:33:32.700
and this is the status,
00:33:33.440 --> 00:33:33.940
which is basically saying,
00:33:36.680 --> 00:33:37.180
run this and this is this,
00:33:42.040 --> 00:33:42.540
which is run maggot in this file.
00:33:43.940 --> 00:33:44.340
If you put it side by side,
00:33:48.680 --> 00:33:48.800
you will check instantly that this is the
00:33:50.900 --> 00:33:51.400
buffer directory, LEM home,
00:33:54.020 --> 00:33:54.520
and then the current file.
00:33:58.860 --> 00:33:59.360
Because I'm launching it with the file.
00:34:03.940 --> 00:34:04.240
So buffer directory, which is the directory
00:34:09.239 --> 00:34:09.739
of the buffer. So I'm already using maggot as
00:34:13.600 --> 00:34:14.080
a tool outside of LEM,
00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:15.060
because I really like maggot.
00:34:16.920 --> 00:34:17.420
And this is very easy to check.
00:34:22.719 --> 00:34:23.219
Launch Emacs daemon. Okay.
00:34:28.580 --> 00:34:29.080
And then I go to local projects.
00:34:31.719 --> 00:34:32.219
Let's go to another 1 that is not LEM.
00:34:37.199 --> 00:34:37.400
[Speaker 4]: You actually have weird ideas like running it
00:34:39.639 --> 00:34:39.860
in daemon mode so you don't ever have to
00:34:40.840 --> 00:34:41.340
restart it or the images,
00:34:43.100 --> 00:34:43.600
I guess, that LEM has.
00:34:46.800 --> 00:34:47.300
[Speaker 2]: LEM does not have this kind of,
00:34:53.719 --> 00:34:54.060
I will call it, it doesn't have like a demon
00:34:56.280 --> 00:34:56.780
mode, so you have control separately,
00:34:58.860 --> 00:34:59.360
but keep in mind that LEM,
00:35:01.260 --> 00:35:01.680
it's a common list program.
00:35:03.340 --> 00:35:03.840
So if you use slime or Sly,
00:35:10.080 --> 00:35:10.580
you can easily connect to them to hack on it.
00:35:12.380 --> 00:35:12.880
[Speaker 4]: ever use that functionality,
00:35:14.060 --> 00:35:14.560
like using it from another computer?
00:35:16.400 --> 00:35:16.900
[Speaker 2]: Do you Another computer,
00:35:17.600 --> 00:35:18.100
I think the same computer,
00:35:21.460 --> 00:35:21.620
or maybe Sage, but yeah,
00:35:21.820 --> 00:35:22.320
it's very...
00:35:24.520 --> 00:35:25.020
[Speaker 4]: Or from like your window,
00:35:26.640 --> 00:35:27.140
if you were using the window...
00:35:28.260 --> 00:35:28.580
I can't remember the name of the window
00:35:30.100 --> 00:35:30.600
manager. Or if you were using...
00:35:36.460 --> 00:35:36.960
What? Yeah, yeah. Or using like stump,
00:35:40.680 --> 00:35:40.760
calling it from like stump WM or how often do
00:35:41.500 --> 00:35:42.000
you use that REPL?
00:35:43.740 --> 00:35:43.940
[Speaker 2]: SPCL? No. ThumbWM? I use it quite a lot.
00:35:44.700 --> 00:35:45.200
I connect to a museum,
00:35:49.400 --> 00:35:49.760
some WM right now, and I use LEM to connect
00:35:52.240 --> 00:35:52.740
to it, but I was using Emacs before.
00:35:55.800 --> 00:35:55.960
And you can use Sly or Slime to connect to
00:35:58.260 --> 00:35:58.520
LEM. So the thing that is in Common List
00:36:00.900 --> 00:36:01.400
makes it this kind of already out-of-the-box
00:36:04.000 --> 00:36:04.280
connectivity between different...
00:36:06.960 --> 00:36:07.460
[Speaker 4]: How many window managers have you used?
00:36:11.120 --> 00:36:11.400
I've used that before.
00:36:13.440 --> 00:36:13.780
I've also used, like right now I'm using
00:36:14.720 --> 00:36:15.220
Sway. I've used Xmonad,
00:36:16.260 --> 00:36:16.760
DWM.
00:36:23.040 --> 00:36:23.540
[Speaker 2]: This is awesome. What is the other 1?
00:36:25.680 --> 00:36:26.180
I can't remember the name.
00:36:27.900 --> 00:36:28.380
But it was like a few years ago.
00:36:30.800 --> 00:36:31.020
I've been doing some DWM for like the last
00:36:36.260 --> 00:36:36.760
[Speaker 4]: I remember that. Go ahead.
00:36:37.740 --> 00:36:38.240
[Speaker 2]: year, I think. Or 3. know,
00:36:41.940 --> 00:36:42.440
it's that I was... I don't know.
00:36:43.440 --> 00:36:43.520
[Speaker 0]: I don't a couple
00:36:44.040 --> 00:36:44.540
[Speaker 2]: I'd like to have of days of my...
00:36:48.280 --> 00:36:48.400
[Speaker 4]: I remember that that window manager seemed to
00:36:53.300 --> 00:36:53.600
have some unique ideas that weren't
00:36:56.280 --> 00:36:56.780
necessarily available on like EWM and XMLNAD.
00:37:02.540 --> 00:37:03.040
[Speaker 2]: So SoundLM, it's an interesting project.
00:37:05.140 --> 00:37:05.460
But for example, I'll change...
00:37:06.720 --> 00:37:07.080
So I don't have in this computer,
00:37:08.240 --> 00:37:08.680
but in my other computer,
00:37:13.840 --> 00:37:14.320
I change the mod line or bar,
00:37:18.220 --> 00:37:18.720
top bar, whatever, because the ThunderLVM
00:37:21.500 --> 00:37:22.000
doesn't only update it when you click,
00:37:25.280 --> 00:37:25.680
or you do some events or happen 1 minute.
00:37:27.560 --> 00:37:27.980
So you can see here, this is not changing
00:37:28.320 --> 00:37:28.820
until I click.
00:37:33.500 --> 00:37:33.720
[Speaker 0]: That's it.
00:37:34.360 --> 00:37:34.600
[Speaker 3]: AUDIENCE 1 Matthew, sorry.
00:37:36.160 --> 00:37:36.660
I have a quick question for Matthew.
00:37:43.520 --> 00:37:43.640
So is your talk going to be posted or did you
00:37:47.420 --> 00:37:47.920
[Speaker 4]: Go ahead. I gave them a recording.
00:37:50.140 --> 00:37:50.640
My talk was the K outline for journaling
00:37:53.080 --> 00:37:53.240
[Speaker 3]: give it live? right right it was I woke up
00:37:54.020 --> 00:37:54.520
too late for it Sorry,
00:37:58.420 --> 00:37:58.920
so I came in and I just saw Bob Weiner
00:38:03.240 --> 00:38:03.340
answering questions So is your talk going to
00:38:06.560 --> 00:38:07.060
be on the page for your talk?
00:38:07.740 --> 00:38:07.960
I don't
00:38:08.560 --> 00:38:09.060
[Speaker 0]: see it there.
00:38:11.940 --> 00:38:12.380
[Speaker 4]: I could give you a link to it,
00:38:17.480 --> 00:38:17.640
because I had, I hosted it on Mega to give it
00:38:18.840 --> 00:38:19.020
to them, because when I emailed it,
00:38:22.080 --> 00:38:22.200
[Speaker 3]: Oh, okay. Is it
00:38:22.360 --> 00:38:22.840
[Speaker 4]: it didn't work. on a monkey?
00:38:23.600 --> 00:38:24.100
Download and watch it.
00:38:29.440 --> 00:38:29.920
I'm probably going to post it on YouTube
00:38:33.600 --> 00:38:33.760
later. I, I had my face record with it,
00:38:36.020 --> 00:38:36.520
but I never got it edited together in time
00:38:40.320 --> 00:38:40.640
[Speaker 3]: Okay, if you could if you can put the link
00:38:43.140 --> 00:38:43.340
onto the onto the ether pad or something or
00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:46.160
onto the wiki then then I can find it and
00:38:49.920 --> 00:38:50.140
check it out. All right,
00:38:53.040 --> 00:38:53.480
thanks. Sorry to interrupt your time,
00:38:56.300 --> 00:38:56.440
Fermin, but I figure we're heavily into the
00:38:57.260 --> 00:38:57.760
break anyways. FERMIN GENZIERIA-CHAPMANI
00:39:00.920 --> 00:39:01.160
[Speaker 2]: No problem. I'm in an EMAX conference talking
00:39:02.860 --> 00:39:03.040
about all that I mean I'm already doing
00:39:04.280 --> 00:39:04.780
blasphemy so I
00:39:24.600 --> 00:39:24.800
think that's oh yeah notes so the thing is
00:39:26.640 --> 00:39:27.140
then as my point of view,
00:39:28.860 --> 00:39:29.360
and the point of view probably of Sasaki-san,
00:39:30.240 --> 00:39:30.740
just a moment, I think,
00:39:34.960 --> 00:39:35.220
is very focused on an IDE more than a
00:39:40.580 --> 00:39:41.080
node-taking editor. More like an integrated
00:39:41.540 --> 00:39:42.040
development environment.
00:39:45.040 --> 00:39:45.540
So node is like a second thing.
00:39:51.500 --> 00:39:52.000
So not exactly the main focus.
00:39:54.440 --> 00:39:54.780
And I know that Emacs does have a very strong
00:39:58.440 --> 00:39:58.940
community of Ormode users that use Emacs for
00:40:00.140 --> 00:40:00.244
Ormode, which is the killer feature,
00:40:01.080 --> 00:40:01.360
1 of I'll do a feature.
00:40:04.456 --> 00:40:04.956
I'll do a feature of Emacs.
00:40:09.160 --> 00:40:09.660
So I'm not the maintainer of porthole.
00:40:20.220 --> 00:40:20.580
I'm sorry. I did add it to so I don't
00:40:22.700 --> 00:40:23.040
maintain the remote. I'm sorry,
00:40:27.400 --> 00:40:27.840
I'll pothole the USB. I'm only using it on
00:40:31.120 --> 00:40:31.620
the Lamington. I cannot change anything.
00:40:39.520 --> 00:40:39.760
[Speaker 4]: What are some interesting things you have
00:40:40.760 --> 00:40:41.260
with your window manager?
00:40:43.780 --> 00:40:44.280
I do have elsewhere.
00:40:49.400 --> 00:40:49.600
[Speaker 2]: I can connect to it and hack it from my
00:40:53.040 --> 00:40:53.540
editor, which I think is really fun.
00:40:56.820 --> 00:40:57.220
The way I can write, so I wrote a few
00:40:58.500 --> 00:40:59.000
packages for Soundallium.
00:41:06.740 --> 00:41:07.240
So 1 of them is Proton,
00:41:10.360 --> 00:41:10.860
which basically launches like a...
00:41:18.480 --> 00:41:18.900
So Proton is like this wine thing that Valve
00:41:22.000 --> 00:41:22.500
[Speaker 4]: Yeah, I'm a user.
00:41:24.140 --> 00:41:24.640
[Speaker 2]: did. OK, so this basically,
00:41:26.480 --> 00:41:26.980
you have like a list of,
00:41:32.280 --> 00:41:32.540
let me check. No, we're just,
00:41:38.780 --> 00:41:39.020
sorry. This, So these all games are bought by
00:41:41.280 --> 00:41:41.780
me. They're not pirates in any way.
00:41:45.800 --> 00:41:46.300
I can use this to to launch it.
00:41:50.700 --> 00:41:51.200
[Speaker 4]: Was that Dmenu or was that StumpWM menu?
00:41:54.800 --> 00:41:55.240
[Speaker 2]: This is Dmenu. So I have,
00:42:02.300 --> 00:42:02.560
I also contribute the Dmenu integration into
00:42:05.820 --> 00:42:06.320
StumwM. So I use Dmenu.
00:42:07.480 --> 00:42:07.980
So like this, right?
00:42:13.300 --> 00:42:13.800
[Speaker 4]: Yeah that's pretty cool.
00:42:15.720 --> 00:42:15.940
You don't know how nice those things are
00:42:16.880 --> 00:42:17.380
until you start using those.
00:42:21.280 --> 00:42:21.780
[Speaker 2]: The menu is very interesting and very...
00:42:24.060 --> 00:42:24.560
Also I was using RoFi,
00:42:25.680 --> 00:42:26.000
but...
00:42:29.100 --> 00:42:29.540
[Speaker 4]: I was also more... The other thing I was more
00:42:31.240 --> 00:42:31.740
mentioning is that also,
00:42:32.860 --> 00:42:33.340
being able to use D-Menu,
00:42:34.800 --> 00:42:35.300
but being able to just have keyboard
00:42:38.680 --> 00:42:39.180
oriented? Everything fuzzy search narrowed
00:42:45.420 --> 00:42:45.480
and No tabs no status bars like all of a
00:42:47.160 --> 00:42:47.600
sudden your mental model on how your computer
00:42:51.420 --> 00:42:51.560
operates goes through the roof and a lot of
00:42:57.900 --> 00:42:58.400
Emacs users Know what that is like Especially
00:43:01.240 --> 00:43:01.740
In conjunction with a window manager?
00:43:06.740 --> 00:43:07.200
[Speaker 2]: Yeah, I think so. I remember when I was...
00:43:11.320 --> 00:43:11.820
So for me, I tried the Emacs window manager,
00:43:16.840 --> 00:43:17.340
but it wasn't for me. Having a single thread
00:43:18.460 --> 00:43:18.960
window manager is scary.
00:43:22.500 --> 00:43:22.840
And also games and some stuff wasn't working
00:43:25.040 --> 00:43:25.240
correctly, which it makes sense in some
00:43:27.340 --> 00:43:27.840
regards, using Emacs for window manager.
00:43:30.660 --> 00:43:31.160
Oh
00:43:34.480 --> 00:43:34.980
[Speaker 4]: I've used it before I found that it wasn't as
00:43:39.240 --> 00:43:39.740
like it. It's not as bad in practice because
00:43:43.020 --> 00:43:43.260
The paper cuts you don't like to hit them
00:43:45.800 --> 00:43:46.000
every day So you make sure So you make sure
00:43:48.080 --> 00:43:48.400
your Emacs config is a lot nicer and doesn't
00:43:51.040 --> 00:43:51.300
have those slowdowns. Or you avoid those
00:43:54.440 --> 00:43:54.780
things. It forces you to make your Emacs
00:43:59.440 --> 00:43:59.940
config a lot more robust to speed.
00:44:02.040 --> 00:44:02.300
[Speaker 2]: Yeah, yeah. That's true,
00:44:04.200 --> 00:44:04.440
yeah. The thing, yeah,
00:44:05.600 --> 00:44:06.020
but still, I don't know,
00:44:08.680 --> 00:44:09.060
[Speaker 4]: You'll still get the paper cuts,
00:44:09.060 --> 00:44:09.560
but...
00:44:12.360 --> 00:44:12.660
[Speaker 2]: like... Yeah, and my experience was not
00:44:16.500 --> 00:44:16.880
great. I'm not a person,
00:44:17.860 --> 00:44:18.360
like, I don't want to have...
00:44:19.960 --> 00:44:20.460
Not with LEM or Emacs.
00:44:22.660 --> 00:44:23.160
I like to have different programs.
00:44:25.840 --> 00:44:26.120
I don't want to like, I never was in like
00:44:28.040 --> 00:44:28.540
Emacs or you know, only Emacs.
00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:30.800
I really love Emacs, GNU Emacs,
00:44:33.920 --> 00:44:34.140
but only Emacs? No, no,
00:44:35.300 --> 00:44:35.540
I like my browser, I like my,
00:44:37.500 --> 00:44:38.000
you know, my Windows Manager,
00:44:41.280 --> 00:44:41.780
my, you know, I wasn't Emacs only.
00:44:45.520 --> 00:44:46.000
Emacs is my OS. Some people are,
00:44:48.600 --> 00:44:49.100
which is good. Different kind of a...
00:44:51.600 --> 00:44:52.100
I have to say that I come from Vim,
00:44:57.340 --> 00:44:57.720
like a long time ago. But I come from Vim,
00:44:58.660 --> 00:44:58.980
so I'm using Evil Mode.
00:45:00.280 --> 00:45:00.780
And I maybe have this kind of a...
00:45:05.700 --> 00:45:06.200
Yeah. So regarding Summoner.vm,
00:45:10.080 --> 00:45:10.580
it's... I like it because it's common Lisp,
00:45:13.940 --> 00:45:14.440
but it don't have some,
00:45:18.120 --> 00:45:18.620
this, I removed this. So I'm using another
00:45:21.040 --> 00:45:21.340
model line because the model line is not
00:45:24.440 --> 00:45:24.720
great. Everything else is a little bit weird
00:45:28.940 --> 00:45:29.440
because you have frames similar to Emacs.
00:45:33.560 --> 00:45:34.060
You have a frame. You have this window,
00:45:35.600 --> 00:45:36.100
and then there's no nothing here.
00:45:37.700 --> 00:45:38.100
[Speaker 4]: Yeah, I've used it before.
00:45:39.720 --> 00:45:40.220
That was definitely weird.
00:45:41.680 --> 00:45:42.180
It's also nice to be able to just...
00:45:43.660 --> 00:45:44.160
Can't you put multiple windows?
00:45:46.100 --> 00:45:46.600
Can't you duplicate windows?
00:45:48.040 --> 00:45:48.540
Show the same window in 2 frames?
00:45:48.560 --> 00:45:49.060
NIGEL
00:45:51.020 --> 00:45:51.520
[Speaker 2]: GANSZELA-WALSH Never tried that.
00:45:54.400 --> 00:45:54.900
Never occurred to me that.
00:45:57.840 --> 00:45:58.020
I don't know. Never tried that,
00:46:01.480 --> 00:46:01.980
to be honest. Let me check.
00:46:07.280 --> 00:46:07.780
No idea. Item? I think so.
00:46:10.080 --> 00:46:10.320
Because when you try to,
00:46:11.520 --> 00:46:11.980
at least not in an easy way.
00:46:13.940 --> 00:46:14.260
When you try to, so if I try to put a window
00:46:16.020 --> 00:46:16.520
here, let me move it so it,
00:46:20.060 --> 00:46:20.540
and if I try to like, so it's,
00:46:21.680 --> 00:46:21.890
yeah, no other window.
00:46:24.100 --> 00:46:24.360
[Speaker 4]: So can you open the, what is that,
00:46:25.080 --> 00:46:25.440
discord or your browser?
00:46:26.840 --> 00:46:27.340
Could you open that in both your frames?
00:46:34.620 --> 00:46:35.120
[Speaker 2]: I can I Side by side, but not the same
00:46:37.740 --> 00:46:37.920
[Speaker 0]: I mean I do I can I can have I know
00:46:38.400 --> 00:46:38.600
[Speaker 4]: can't your frames? 2 browsers you can do that
00:46:42.600 --> 00:46:43.100
[Speaker 2]: browser I never occurred to me that,
00:46:46.300 --> 00:46:46.800
[Speaker 4]: in DWM? You can't do that in XMLNet,
00:46:48.560 --> 00:46:49.060
at least I don't know what configuration
00:46:50.820 --> 00:46:51.020
you'd have to do to get to be able to do that
00:46:51.140 --> 00:46:51.640
in XMONAD.
00:46:54.060 --> 00:46:54.560
[Speaker 2]: wow. Interesting. Maybe you can.
00:46:57.700 --> 00:46:58.200
I never tried. Maybe you can?
00:47:03.240 --> 00:47:03.640
No idea. The interesting thing that I never
00:47:05.860 --> 00:47:06.360
use is that floating windows.
00:47:09.520 --> 00:47:09.960
Never use floating windows,
00:47:13.480 --> 00:47:13.780
but normal windows. You know,
00:47:17.780 --> 00:47:18.160
not. And SoundWM does have a weird support
00:47:24.720 --> 00:47:25.220
for it. Now it works. But I don't like it.
00:47:26.680 --> 00:47:27.180
For me, it was a little bit rough,
00:47:29.480 --> 00:47:29.980
the use of floating windows in SoundWM.
00:47:32.480 --> 00:47:32.980
I think they're way better now.
00:47:36.580 --> 00:47:37.080
I think, but yeah, I don't use it so...
00:47:40.600 --> 00:47:41.100
But there is.
00:47:43.520 --> 00:47:43.940
[Speaker 4]: You know, for me with the,
00:47:45.060 --> 00:47:45.480
like, Emacs doing everything,
00:47:46.880 --> 00:47:47.380
it's like, you got like Emacs,
00:47:50.320 --> 00:47:50.740
you got shell, and then you got the gooey
00:47:56.520 --> 00:47:56.760
Wild West. Yeah. Like,
00:47:58.940 --> 00:47:59.440
with Emacs, I know, I'll generally get,
00:48:01.280 --> 00:48:01.780
oh, this is going to be configured in?
00:48:04.160 --> 00:48:04.660
It's either gonna be shell script,
00:48:06.180 --> 00:48:06.340
Python or Emacs. Oh wait,
00:48:07.000 --> 00:48:07.500
no, it's gonna be Emacs.
00:48:09.680 --> 00:48:10.180
Variable's gonna be written in SecQ,
00:48:10.380 --> 00:48:10.880
period.
00:48:16.640 --> 00:48:17.140
[Speaker 2]: Well, I don't use too much scripting,
00:48:18.260 --> 00:48:18.540
but I'd like to, for example,
00:48:21.540 --> 00:48:22.040
I had to do a, so the automatic installer
00:48:26.000 --> 00:48:26.500
for, for Debian base, Debian stuff for Linux
00:48:30.340 --> 00:48:30.840
for, for LEM. I was thinking of doing in bash
00:48:32.520 --> 00:48:33.020
and I say, I don't want to do it in Bash.
00:48:35.380 --> 00:48:35.880
So I just did it in SVC and Commodisp,
00:48:37.660 --> 00:48:38.100
which does have like a scripting feature.
00:48:40.920 --> 00:48:41.040
You can put a script and it will create your
00:48:41.160 --> 00:48:41.660
own script.
00:48:45.860 --> 00:48:46.280
[Speaker 4]: 1 of the main people behind Next,
00:48:50.760 --> 00:48:50.880
he did a talk on using Common Lisp as a
00:48:51.720 --> 00:48:52.220
replacement for a shell.
00:48:58.700 --> 00:48:59.200
[Speaker 2]: Yes, it was... I know him.
00:49:00.680 --> 00:49:01.180
I know that he exists.
00:49:04.600 --> 00:49:04.900
Next, I think it's a main maintainer of Nix,
00:49:09.140 --> 00:49:09.620
[Speaker 4]: Yeah, although his website's kind of,
00:49:10.380 --> 00:49:10.880
I think he took it down.
00:49:12.280 --> 00:49:12.780
[Speaker 2]: Ambrevar. Yeah, I think he,
00:49:14.480 --> 00:49:14.980
yeah, he took it down.
00:49:17.360 --> 00:49:17.680
[Speaker 4]: So if you want to, you can look at it in Time
00:49:17.680 --> 00:49:18.180
Machine.
00:49:23.940 --> 00:49:24.440
[Speaker 2]: Yeah, I do have that article in my bookmarks,
00:49:26.740 --> 00:49:27.240
I think, somewhere. I remember reading that.
00:49:30.360 --> 00:49:30.840
So also, I would like to keep separated
00:49:32.880 --> 00:49:33.380
things in that way to have shell and then
00:49:37.940 --> 00:49:38.440
Emacs or LEM. Like for Emacs I use Viter.
00:49:40.760 --> 00:49:41.260
I don't like that it has different,
00:49:41.760 --> 00:49:42.260
you know.
00:49:44.900 --> 00:49:45.060
[Speaker 4]: On the same time though,
00:49:46.960 --> 00:49:47.120
I also don't like my terminal not to be able
00:49:52.340 --> 00:49:52.600
to click URLs and I like I like my terminal
00:49:54.560 --> 00:49:55.060
to have history and you know to scroll
00:49:58.040 --> 00:49:58.200
position copy paste You can do some of that
00:50:00.020 --> 00:50:00.160
stuff, but you know how that stuff go on the
00:50:01.960 --> 00:50:02.080
killer ring I kind of view it as like an
00:50:02.800 --> 00:50:03.300
alternative to shell.
00:50:06.940 --> 00:50:07.080
[Speaker 2]: Fair enough, but I think when some for my
00:50:08.720 --> 00:50:09.220
terminal, I only use it for navigate,
00:50:11.280 --> 00:50:11.780
remove stuff, so basic stuff.
00:50:14.280 --> 00:50:14.640
When I have to like, I don't know,
00:50:17.640 --> 00:50:18.140
edit something, just open the...
00:50:22.120 --> 00:50:22.400
[Speaker 4]: I like to use completion and narrowing to
00:50:24.480 --> 00:50:24.720
find my files. I kind of wish I could do that
00:50:26.320 --> 00:50:26.600
[Speaker 0]: on the shell or like if you use
00:50:27.400 --> 00:50:27.640
[Speaker 4]: more D-Menu to do that.
00:50:28.440 --> 00:50:28.760
That would be, I'm sure,
00:50:28.760 --> 00:50:29.260
nicer.
00:50:38.140 --> 00:50:38.240
[Speaker 2]: There's a lot of tools for terminals to do
00:50:39.800 --> 00:50:39.880
that, right? But you have to configure all of
00:50:41.580 --> 00:50:41.780
them. Beam users are very aware of those
00:50:46.980 --> 00:50:47.300
tools. You know, having very good fuzzy
00:50:49.240 --> 00:50:49.440
finding of files and then all by the
00:50:53.680 --> 00:50:54.100
terminal. I do have a friend who is a user of
00:50:56.820 --> 00:50:57.320
the Forbidden Editor, he's good,
00:51:01.900 --> 00:51:02.400
that does have a lot of small,
00:51:09.480 --> 00:51:09.980
like fuzzy finding, and so complete commands,
00:51:12.240 --> 00:51:12.740
and call those images in the terminal,
00:51:14.300 --> 00:51:14.800
all sorts of crazy stuff.
00:51:16.120 --> 00:51:16.620
That I think are not overkill,
00:51:20.380 --> 00:51:20.560
but I mean, if you want to use it,
00:51:29.540 --> 00:51:30.040
go ahead. So yeah. The thing is that,
00:51:32.360 --> 00:51:32.860
So trickling back a little bit to LEM,
00:51:35.600 --> 00:51:35.860
I think an interesting thought that I have
00:51:37.280 --> 00:51:37.780
about LEM and I can do Emacs.
00:51:40.680 --> 00:51:41.180
Not now, because LEM is a very small,
00:51:43.740 --> 00:51:44.240
like literally people,
00:51:46.000 --> 00:51:46.500
at least developers and users,
00:51:50.280 --> 00:51:50.780
I don't know, maybe 10 less.
00:51:56.780 --> 00:51:57.280
But people may think, split the community,
00:51:58.740 --> 00:51:58.900
right? That's the main thing that should come
00:51:59.960 --> 00:52:00.460
to my mind, split the community,
00:52:01.840 --> 00:52:02.140
maybe you, because that's true.
00:52:04.000 --> 00:52:04.280
I mean, I'm not developing that much in Nui
00:52:06.260 --> 00:52:06.760
MacLisp because I'm developing them.
00:52:12.080 --> 00:52:12.580
That's not that I'm a force that you might
00:52:13.360 --> 00:52:13.860
think exists or anything,
00:52:17.220 --> 00:52:17.400
but you know, you're splitting a very small
00:52:21.600 --> 00:52:21.760
community. Not that LEM wants to do that or
00:52:24.160 --> 00:52:24.360
anything, or will be able to in any way,
00:52:25.280 --> 00:52:25.780
but you know what I mean.
00:52:32.360 --> 00:52:32.780
I thought about that, And I think it's an
00:52:40.600 --> 00:52:40.800
interesting concern. But that concern also
00:52:42.180 --> 00:52:42.680
stops innovation in some way.
00:52:46.960 --> 00:52:47.460
[Speaker 4]: I think you can, if you look at the example
00:52:50.200 --> 00:52:50.680
of how many EMAX talks are related to
00:52:54.760 --> 00:52:54.960
knowledge management and not all and like for
00:52:57.840 --> 00:52:58.100
instance denote and Orgrim don't really work
00:53:01.740 --> 00:53:01.880
together all that well they split the
00:53:03.740 --> 00:53:03.960
community so to say I don't think they make
00:53:04.720 --> 00:53:05.220
it weaker at all, though.
00:53:08.560 --> 00:53:08.800
I think you were saying competition is good,
00:53:10.000 --> 00:53:10.500
but yeah, competition is good.
00:53:12.100 --> 00:53:12.360
[Speaker 2]: Yeah, I agree on that.
00:53:13.280 --> 00:53:13.780
I want to put it in the...
00:53:15.400 --> 00:53:15.900
But, you know, I'm doing the devil's advocate
00:53:18.252 --> 00:53:18.271
[Speaker 0]: something, that's... The developer gates in
00:53:18.308 --> 00:53:18.327
this regard. Like
00:53:18.327 --> 00:53:18.346
[Speaker 2]: in this regard. If someone wants to say if
00:53:19.280 --> 00:53:19.780
someone wants to like say something that
00:53:22.920 --> 00:53:23.160
maybe, you know, because some people still
00:53:30.800 --> 00:53:30.940
remember the Emacs versus X Emacs thing in
00:53:34.860 --> 00:53:35.360
the past, you know, that the split of the and
00:53:38.100 --> 00:53:38.240
That was good in some way but also bad in
00:53:39.800 --> 00:53:39.960
others like the compatibility was a little
00:53:42.560 --> 00:53:43.040
bit of a hell You know at the end Emacs
00:53:46.160 --> 00:53:46.440
failed, no Emacs But at that time it wasn't
00:53:50.140 --> 00:53:50.500
that clear and some people like it wasn't
00:53:53.200 --> 00:53:53.360
there. And I can understand that kind of a
00:53:53.360 --> 00:53:53.860
feeling.
00:53:58.820 --> 00:53:59.040
[Speaker 4]: Well sometimes the steps forward you end up
00:54:02.640 --> 00:54:02.760
going Like you're on a hill and you want to
00:54:05.820 --> 00:54:06.000
[Speaker 0]: the way the path to get up to
00:54:06.440 --> 00:54:06.720
[Speaker 4]: get to a higher hill, but that higher hill
00:54:10.920 --> 00:54:11.280
goes down and up. It doesn't mean that even
00:54:12.240 --> 00:54:12.600
if you know you're going down,
00:54:13.840 --> 00:54:14.340
it doesn't mean that it was a mistake.
00:54:19.740 --> 00:54:20.020
[Speaker 2]: Okay, fair enough. And also another
00:54:22.120 --> 00:54:22.360
interesting thing that I want to envision in
00:54:25.520 --> 00:54:25.720
the future, if I have time or someone wants
00:54:28.400 --> 00:54:28.740
to help me with, is I want them to have
00:54:30.240 --> 00:54:30.740
different language for extension,
00:54:32.560 --> 00:54:33.060
different Lisp for extension,
00:54:36.340 --> 00:54:36.840
not only common Lisp, but Scheme closure.
00:54:39.680 --> 00:54:40.080
And maybe not EmacLisp probably,
00:54:46.500 --> 00:54:47.000
[Speaker 4]: that what Guile Emacs is trying to do?
00:54:47.860 --> 00:54:48.080
[Speaker 2]: but yeah. And funny enough- Isn't Guile Emacs
00:54:50.060 --> 00:54:50.560
tried to add Guile support to,
00:54:52.040 --> 00:54:52.540
but Guile is not scheme.
00:54:53.560 --> 00:54:53.800
Well, it's kind of scheme,
00:54:54.440 --> 00:54:54.940
but it's not all schemes,
00:54:58.580 --> 00:54:58.780
which is, you know, and it was just to
00:55:02.540 --> 00:55:03.040
replace EmacLisp with Gile.
00:55:06.940 --> 00:55:07.260
You have 2 both. It was similar in that way,
00:55:12.100 --> 00:55:12.340
but the thing is, Common Lisp does have a lot
00:55:12.900 --> 00:55:13.220
of interesting things.
00:55:16.120 --> 00:55:16.620
So someone wrote a closure in Common Lisp.
00:55:20.640 --> 00:55:21.140
Which is called Cloture.
00:55:29.720 --> 00:55:29.860
Someone wrote, well it's on the way but it's
00:55:35.440 --> 00:55:35.740
getting there, a standard scheme in Common
00:55:39.440 --> 00:55:39.940
Lisp. So to add support to LEM,
00:55:44.440 --> 00:55:44.940
will be as easy as import package,
00:55:46.360 --> 00:55:46.860
and you have, And if that language,
00:55:49.640 --> 00:55:50.060
which usually does, supports very well
00:55:51.740 --> 00:55:51.900
interaction between the host language and the
00:55:52.920 --> 00:55:53.420
language that tries to provide,
00:55:57.040 --> 00:55:57.180
you will mostly automatically have new
00:55:58.060 --> 00:55:58.560
language for the editor.
00:56:05.640 --> 00:56:06.100
[Speaker 4]: I think the more interesting hanging fruit
00:56:09.280 --> 00:56:09.780
would be like using Next to scrape websites,
00:56:12.500 --> 00:56:13.000
download CSV bank statements,
00:56:15.940 --> 00:56:16.440
integrating with like password managers and
00:56:27.880 --> 00:56:28.180
or using... yeah you could still do with
00:56:30.120 --> 00:56:30.620
[Speaker 2]: But isn't that more like next thing oh yeah
00:56:31.460 --> 00:56:31.580
yeah I
00:56:32.400 --> 00:56:32.520
[Speaker 4]: common list though mean what's your your
00:56:34.760 --> 00:56:35.260
other options would be Selenium,
00:56:41.200 --> 00:56:41.580
JavaScript, Next already gives you the REPL
00:56:47.940 --> 00:56:48.300
for that. Or when you had that Ambryvar talk,
00:56:50.060 --> 00:56:50.220
when he, I don't know if you watched it,
00:56:52.920 --> 00:56:53.420
but when you use a shell and a command takes
00:56:56.060 --> 00:56:56.200
takes a while It just automatically takes you
00:56:58.440 --> 00:56:58.580
back into your shell and says I'll just let
00:57:00.520 --> 00:57:00.800
this run in the background or being able to
00:57:02.760 --> 00:57:03.260
more easily run commands in parallel.
00:57:13.620 --> 00:57:13.880
[Speaker 2]: But that's not like Nix stuff,
00:57:18.740 --> 00:57:19.140
[Speaker 4]: The Ambrivar, the shell 1,
00:57:21.540 --> 00:57:21.900
[Speaker 2]: right? Not like? When he did it,
00:57:23.380 --> 00:57:23.580
he. Because 1
00:57:25.340 --> 00:57:25.440
[Speaker 4]: wasn't. of the things He did in that when he
00:57:30.040 --> 00:57:30.160
was using the repl in place of the shell is 1
00:57:31.240 --> 00:57:31.740
of the things in there was if,
00:57:33.720 --> 00:57:34.120
let's say you were compiling a program,
00:57:36.820 --> 00:57:37.040
that takes a while. If it took longer than
00:57:40.240 --> 00:57:40.440
like 3 seconds or something along those
00:57:42.560 --> 00:57:42.740
lines, it would kick you back into the shell
00:57:44.260 --> 00:57:44.660
and say, oh, we're waiting for this program
00:57:48.160 --> 00:57:48.380
[Speaker 2]: Oh, interesting. And
00:57:48.840 --> 00:57:49.340
[Speaker 4]: to run, to finish. then you could,
00:57:51.200 --> 00:57:51.600
and then it had back reference support.
00:57:55.260 --> 00:57:55.520
So you could say, Oh, app search for this
00:57:58.480 --> 00:57:58.820
program. And then with the,
00:58:00.780 --> 00:58:01.220
with the shell, I, when I want to search,
00:58:04.460 --> 00:58:04.640
I'll then grep through that list to narrow it
00:58:06.900 --> 00:58:07.180
down even further, but I do a whole new
00:58:08.400 --> 00:58:08.900
search. It just says, oh,
00:58:10.600 --> 00:58:11.100
just grep through what I already searched.
00:58:14.180 --> 00:58:14.680
Just grep through the results of the command
00:58:15.940 --> 00:58:16.440
that's 3 commands ago.
00:58:17.980 --> 00:58:18.180
[Speaker 2]: Interesting. So it
00:58:23.880 --> 00:58:24.380
[Speaker 4]: runs instantly. Or look for my build errors
00:58:25.840 --> 00:58:26.340
in my compilation output,
00:58:29.700 --> 00:58:30.060
[Speaker 0]: rather than trying to build it again grepping
00:58:30.360 --> 00:58:30.860
for the errors.
00:58:33.640 --> 00:58:34.120
[Speaker 2]: I was checking, so where's that project?
00:58:36.420 --> 00:58:36.920
I was looking for it. You know,
00:58:44.540 --> 00:58:45.040
the... Yeah, I want to check the,
00:58:48.000 --> 00:58:48.500
[Speaker 4]: There was a talk. I also had a webpage.
00:58:55.080 --> 00:58:55.580
[Speaker 2]: you know... This red bull?
00:58:58.260 --> 00:58:58.760
No, this is not what I meant.
00:59:34.174 --> 00:59:34.674
[Speaker 0]: What is it? What is it?
00:59:47.664 --> 00:59:48.164
I cannot find the... I was trying to find
00:59:54.180 --> 00:59:54.680
[Speaker 2]: the repo for... It's C-L-E-S-H,
00:59:59.640 --> 00:59:59.840
like a unit shell for interface with for
01:00:02.080 --> 01:00:02.580
common Lisp? Is that the thing?
01:00:09.000 --> 01:00:09.160
[Speaker 0]: I don't know. I'm
01:00:12.260 --> 01:00:12.760
[Speaker 4]: trying to find the link to his old,
01:00:16.560 --> 01:00:17.060
no longer website. Website.
01:00:21.500 --> 01:00:22.000
[Speaker 2]: Skip. Technical issues.
01:00:23.400 --> 01:00:23.900
Maybe this 1.
01:00:35.820 --> 01:00:36.320
I cannot find it.
01:00:37.800 --> 01:00:38.300
[Speaker 4]: I got it.
01:00:51.140 --> 01:00:51.640
[Speaker 0]: Go to that link. Okay.
01:01:02.020 --> 01:01:02.220
[Speaker 4]: There's also a FOSDM target associated with
01:01:02.380 --> 01:01:02.880
it too.
01:01:07.600 --> 01:01:08.100
[Speaker 2]: Oh yeah, interesting. Clash and CH.
01:01:13.520 --> 01:01:14.020
CH. Oh, I was looking at the clesh.
01:01:18.640 --> 01:01:19.140
Clish, so the, let's check for it.
01:01:23.560 --> 01:01:23.860
The other 1 is shell and camel.
01:01:24.120 --> 01:01:24.620
This 1.
01:01:37.505 --> 01:01:38.005
[Speaker 0]: Interesting. Oops. Close Oops.
01:01:40.900 --> 01:01:41.400
[Speaker 2]: Oh, it's a GNU project.
01:01:44.660 --> 01:01:45.160
Oh, interesting.
01:01:51.400 --> 01:01:51.680
[Speaker 4]: The other thing that was interesting there is
01:01:52.760 --> 01:01:53.260
you use those disk images,
01:02:00.140 --> 01:02:00.520
LISP images, to have some of your common LISP
01:02:05.920 --> 01:02:06.100
utilities or programming libraries that you
01:02:07.660 --> 01:02:08.040
utilize in tandem with your REPL.
01:02:13.700 --> 01:02:14.200
So you can easily pull up a more featureful
01:02:18.160 --> 01:02:18.400
or a REPL that has more tools in it than by
01:02:18.400 --> 01:02:18.900
default.
01:02:21.740 --> 01:02:22.240
[Speaker 2]: Interesting. So yeah, that's,
01:02:24.380 --> 01:02:24.880
yeah, I mean, that will be,
01:02:26.800 --> 01:02:27.100
it will be fairly, no,
01:02:28.700 --> 01:02:29.200
no, easy. Well, easy, but not,
01:02:33.080 --> 01:02:33.580
But this can be integrated into LEM probably.
01:02:36.060 --> 01:02:36.200
Very, you know, not that easy because you
01:02:38.520 --> 01:02:39.020
have to change the few things.
01:02:43.780 --> 01:02:44.280
But this can be, you know.
01:02:47.100 --> 01:02:47.600
[Speaker 4]: Well, as example, he just...
01:02:49.360 --> 01:02:49.860
Well, 1 of the things that was in the talk,
01:02:51.080 --> 01:02:51.300
1 of the main ideas was,
01:02:56.160 --> 01:02:56.380
let's just, rather than trying to make the
01:02:57.600 --> 01:02:58.040
shell closer to a REPL,
01:03:00.780 --> 01:03:01.280
let's make a REPL closer to a shell,
01:03:03.380 --> 01:03:03.760
make it to where we can easily run Linux
01:03:07.280 --> 01:03:07.420
programs in it, and then use the rest of the
01:03:10.120 --> 01:03:10.620
REPL goodness, make it to where parentheses
01:03:12.080 --> 01:03:12.580
are easy to use, like paraedit,
01:03:20.920 --> 01:03:21.420
And then all of a sudden you have a nicer
01:03:24.320 --> 01:03:24.640
shell. Not really shell,
01:03:24.640 --> 01:03:25.140
but.
01:03:30.020 --> 01:03:30.520
[Speaker 2]: Oh, this is huge.
01:03:33.520 --> 01:03:33.960
[Speaker 6]: Hi, folks. Sorry for the interruption.
01:03:35.200 --> 01:03:35.700
It's Leo from the general track.
01:03:39.380 --> 01:03:39.600
We are about to go back live on the
01:03:41.880 --> 01:03:42.040
development track, so you can continue the
01:03:43.080 --> 01:03:43.480
discussion. You know, we are recording
01:03:45.200 --> 01:03:45.360
everything and you seem to be having a great
01:03:47.520 --> 01:03:47.840
amount of fun to issue the need for lunch,
01:03:49.080 --> 01:03:49.580
at least for the people in the US.
01:03:51.160 --> 01:03:51.360
I just want to let you know,
01:03:53.680 --> 01:03:53.860
in 2 minutes' time, we will be moving back to
01:03:54.840 --> 01:03:55.340
the rest of the talk for the afternoon,
01:03:56.840 --> 01:03:57.040
but feel free to stay in a room and keep
01:03:57.760 --> 01:03:58.260
discussing. All right?
01:04:01.160 --> 01:04:01.660
[Speaker 2]: Thank you. All right.
01:04:03.640 --> 01:04:03.940
[Speaker 6]: It might be a little brutal in 2 minutes,
01:04:07.920 --> 01:04:08.240
so if you have your watch synchronized at 7
01:04:09.080 --> 01:04:09.520
sharps, so in 2 minutes,
01:04:10.040 --> 01:04:10.540
it'll cut off.
01:04:19.600 --> 01:04:20.100
[Speaker 2]: Okay. Bye-bye. Bye. Oh my.
01:04:23.860 --> 01:04:24.360
Yeah. Interesting stuff indeed.
01:04:29.380 --> 01:04:29.540
[Speaker 4]: to listen to it after you're done with the
01:04:32.380 --> 01:04:32.540
[Speaker 0]: I guess you have Have you
01:04:33.480 --> 01:04:33.980
[Speaker 4]: comp. ever listened to that talk before?
01:04:38.320 --> 01:04:38.800
The 1 that's in that webpage,
01:04:39.380 --> 01:04:39.880
the FOSDEM 1.
01:04:40.840 --> 01:04:41.340
[Speaker 2]: Which 1? Sorry? 0 yeah,
01:04:44.480 --> 01:04:44.980
I in fact saw him live in the FOSDEM 2020.
01:04:50.053 --> 01:04:50.091
[Speaker 0]: So I a little bit. 2020.
01:04:50.166 --> 01:04:50.204
So we him
01:04:51.760 --> 01:04:51.980
[Speaker 2]: talked with him a little bit The first time
01:04:55.760 --> 01:04:56.260
is here in well here in Europe here in
01:05:01.320 --> 01:05:01.440
Brussels like 3 hours away or 2 hours away in
01:05:02.320 --> 01:05:02.820
plane from where I am.
01:05:05.320 --> 01:05:05.800
[Speaker 0]: 1 of the things that's kind of interesting
01:05:06.900 --> 01:05:07.040
with, you have some of
01:05:09.060 --> 01:05:09.160
[Speaker 4]: the people who come from Europe to the US and
01:05:11.820 --> 01:05:11.980
they're like, oh, I want to visit all the
01:05:13.780 --> 01:05:14.060
corners of the US in a couple of days.
01:05:17.920 --> 01:05:18.420
And it's like, No, US is the size of Europe.
01:05:19.740 --> 01:05:19.960
[Speaker 0]: The
01:05:21.160 --> 01:05:21.660
[Speaker 4]: states are the size of their countries.
01:05:23.140 --> 01:05:23.400
You don't...
01:05:27.100 --> 01:05:27.600
[Speaker 2]: I know. I know. It's very...
01:05:30.660 --> 01:05:31.080
It's huge. And it's like 6 hours different
01:05:32.280 --> 01:05:32.780
from coast to coast, something like that.
01:05:38.000 --> 01:05:38.240
[Speaker 4]: Yeah, and that's driving as fast as you can
01:05:39.960 --> 01:05:40.140
on the freeway, on the best roads that you
01:05:41.160 --> 01:05:41.660
possibly can, not taking...
01:05:45.700 --> 01:05:46.200
[Speaker 2]: Yeah, that would be...
01:05:53.400 --> 01:05:53.900
So the thing that I try to do also with LEM
01:05:57.880 --> 01:05:58.140
is to move my workflow from LEM to Emax,
01:06:01.620 --> 01:06:02.120
so for Emax to LEM, use it more.
01:06:07.080 --> 01:06:07.580
And I hope to, we still have a long way to go
01:06:08.440 --> 01:06:08.940
in terms of usability,
01:06:10.600 --> 01:06:11.100
in terms of other things,
01:06:12.640 --> 01:06:13.140
because we need more power.
01:06:18.420 --> 01:06:18.620
So This is also my attempt to do some
01:06:20.320 --> 01:06:20.820
publicity to the Blend project itself,
01:06:23.100 --> 01:06:23.600
to need to add more users,
01:06:26.200 --> 01:06:26.700
to be willing to try and to fail trying,
01:06:29.640 --> 01:06:30.140
because we still have some rough edges.
01:06:38.320 --> 01:06:38.820
Yeah, just trying to do that,
01:06:41.720 --> 01:06:42.220
which is, and I apologize to the Emaclist
01:06:43.580 --> 01:06:43.740
community, which I'm part of,
01:06:44.660 --> 01:06:45.140
but I don't want to like,
01:06:47.020 --> 01:06:47.520
disencourage the use of getting Emacs anyway.
01:06:48.960 --> 01:06:49.460
I think both are awesome.
01:06:51.300 --> 01:06:51.800
I want to anyone to get a real impression.
01:06:57.040 --> 01:06:57.100
[Speaker 0]: What do
01:06:57.740 --> 01:06:58.240
[Speaker 2]: you think? PlasmaStrike,
01:07:01.560 --> 01:07:02.060
you have a very powerful name.
01:07:07.580 --> 01:07:07.840
[Speaker 4]: I don't think that's something to worry
01:07:09.660 --> 01:07:10.160
about. I don't personally,
01:07:15.380 --> 01:07:15.760
but I'm going to watch the EMMS talk.
01:07:17.360 --> 01:07:17.560
That's something that I don't really use too
01:07:20.800 --> 01:07:21.220
much on my Emacs config.
01:07:22.600 --> 01:07:23.100
So I'm going to let you go.
01:07:24.440 --> 01:07:24.720
[Speaker 2]: OK, yeah, I'm going to go.
01:07:26.320 --> 01:07:26.760
I'm going to maybe watch the garbage
01:07:27.800 --> 01:07:28.300
collector talk, which is interesting.
01:07:32.540 --> 01:07:33.040
So thank you all very much.
01:07:35.860 --> 01:07:36.080
I'm gonna go. Thanks for the questions and
01:07:40.811 --> 01:07:41.288
all that. I think I hope I answered correctly
01:07:47.040 --> 01:07:47.540
[Speaker 4]: is part of the value of being part of this is
01:07:50.580 --> 01:07:50.740
[Speaker 2]: all of them. Yeah, I figure this that's a way
01:07:52.540 --> 01:07:53.040
[Speaker 4]: conversations. So of saying thank you for
01:07:54.480 --> 01:07:54.980
people sharing interesting talks.
01:07:57.780 --> 01:07:57.940
[Speaker 2]: Indeed. Thank you all very much for going to
01:08:02.380 --> 01:08:02.880
the Emacs conf and to watch me.
01:08:06.440 --> 01:08:06.940
So thank you all very much.
01:08:09.360 --> 01:08:09.860
I'm going to go do that.
01:08:10.640 --> 01:08:10.890
[Speaker 0]: See you.
