WEBVTT
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[Speaker 0]: All right. I have unmuted.
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It's been a while since I've actually done an
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actual presentation. Hi.
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Okay. I'm going to deafen myself and mumble
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so that I don't get distracted by backstage
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chatter. Hello, everyone! Okay,
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so where are we? Questions,
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questions, questions. Okay,
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how easy would it be for someone else to
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reuse the Emacs conf strips and config to do
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a conf of their own? Like everything else,
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I have no idea if things actually work until
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somebody does it for, you know,
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to get everything to run on a computer that
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isn't my computer and with assumptions that
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aren't my assumptions.
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So, I have no idea. But optimistically,
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I have put most of the EmacsConf things,
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like EmacsConf, the name of the conference
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and things like that in variables.
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So if theoretically someone were to run an
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org mode conference or something like that,
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it might be possible to reuse all this code.
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We'll see. I don't know if it's going to be
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easy. I don't even know if it's going to be
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possible, but it might be fun to try.
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What tools would I like to exist in Emacs
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land to help with preparing the conference
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next time? Well, I've already been thinking
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about adjustments that I want to make to
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sub-eds so that the audio synchronization
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issues that we sometimes have with FFmpeg can
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be something that I can flag and maybe fix
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even while I'm watching a video.
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But also as much as possible,
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I like to leave the actual FFMPEG audio and
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visual tinkering with to other people like
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Leo, whose patience is slightly more than
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mine, because audio is,
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I still don't have the patience to sit for
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it. You can tell I talk really,
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really quickly. I'm still trying to squeeze
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everything into however little focus time I
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actually have. So it would be kind of nice to
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use that. Emacs is already doing quite a ton
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and stuffing more multimedia processing and
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other fun things into it might be
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interesting. Who knows?
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Oh, the other thing that I would really love
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to have that people always ask for is a way
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from Emacs to interact with the Etherpad.
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The Etherpad API, it seems very granular.
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Like, you can set the HTML of a pad,
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but you can't actually just append stuff to
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it. And I was trying to get something that
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could take questions from IRC and
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automatically push them into the pad,
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even from an ERC bot or whatever,
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but no go. If someone were to figure out some
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CRDT thing where we can collaboratively edit
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the document, that I think is the number 1
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request that people always have around
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EmacsConf. That would be really cool to do
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more of the conference itself from within
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Emacs. I don't know if actually,
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well, we have an org file now that launches
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the MPV from Emacs. But if you want to have
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an ex-widget or something else watching the
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conference from within Emacs itself.
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I think that will also be really cool.
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Yes. And then other fun stuff.
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OK, how can speakers and viewers help make
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preparing for next year's Emacs Conf even
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more fun for the organizers?
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Well, I love it when not only do the speakers
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do all that work to prepare their talk,
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but lately people have actually even been
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volunteering to caption their own talks.
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And that's great because then they know the
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words that they use. And if I can show them
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the workflow that we have so that they can do
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it very efficiently, because there's all
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these wonderful things that I do now with
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Subweb Waveform and Aeneas for like the
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forced alignment so we can get timestamps
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from text and all these other fun things that
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make getting a transcript or editing the
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captions fun and easy.
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That makes it easier for not only speakers to
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contribute captions for their own talks,
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but also interested volunteers who,
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as mentioned, get early access to all the
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talks and can watch them at leisure.
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And it's, you know, nice prick there.
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Definitely should try that.
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I do have some sample videos of how we use
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subed. But of course, in the process of
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shoving like 30 or 40 talks,
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maybe 30 talks through it for EmacsConf,
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this is like the stress test season for
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subed, which is great,
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I ended up adding more features.
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So 1 of my big to-dos afterwards is I have to
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document the different workflows for things
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like, okay, you've got a script.
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You can use WDiff to get word diffs so you
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can take the subtitles and compare them with
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the original script and see where the
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misrecognized words are.
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And that's great. Or you can use SubWeb
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Waveform to start adjusting things.
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Or for example, if there's a synchronization
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issue, I can now middle click on a subtitle
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where I want the subtitle to actually start
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and then move all the subtitles to start at
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that point. So it's getting to be a really
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elaborate tool. And I definitely need to
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document that and stick all the blog post
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links into the readme so that people can find
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this in the future. So it's very,
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very nifty. And the reason why we do this is
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because, well, personally,
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I have a hard time sitting and watching
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videos. I like to be able to just jump to the
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interesting parts or watch it at 3 times
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speed, which MPV lets me do.
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And the text makes it a lot more searchable,
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which is fantastic. And also because,
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you know, if you've got all these interesting
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variable names and key bindings and whatever,
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and the automatic subtitles just don't do the
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right thing. So it's nice that people do the
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captioning. So, yeah, so that's 1 thing that
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people can help with. Captioning is always
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very interesting. And the other thing that
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people can do is take the inspiration that
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you get from EmacsConf and from the ideas
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that you have when you're working with Emacs,
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and suggest talks for next year's EmacsConf.
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And it doesn't have to be a super fancy,
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nobody else needs to go out and do a really
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professional-looking video.
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Even though Howard has set the bar this you
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know it's pretty high you don't have to do
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that kind of thing it can be just you in a
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screen or even just a screen and you talking
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about this cool thing that you learned and
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they could be a video or it could be a blog
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post it could be something else and that
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those those things are fantastic because they
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inspire people to see what's possible with
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Emacs. So that's another big thing that
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people can do to help.
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And then there's sharing the word about it.
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So if you saw something that you really like,
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if you write a blog post about it or a tweet
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or a toot or whatever else you want to do,
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you make a reaction video,
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that helps other people discover that stuff
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not just today, not just next week,
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but you know even later as they search for
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these words that as people search for ideas
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using words that are not necessarily the ones
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in the video, you describing things in other
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ways helps with the search engine
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optimization, you're not really,
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it's just people finding stuff,
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which is amazing. So yes,
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please write about the cool things that
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you've seen and what you'd like to tell other
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people about. Suggesting ideas for talks.
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Yes. Making talks. All sorts of wonderful
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things. OK. Could you elaborate on the
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workflow that goes on in your mind for when
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approaching these things?
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Do you start with an Emacs org solution right
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off the bat at this point when faced with a
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task? Are there some conscious steps involved
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from early ideas to automation of the kind
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you just showed? Mostly it starts with,
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okay, we got to do this thing.
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So I have this to-do. And sometimes,
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like in the week before the conference,
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I have to think, okay,
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is this a top priority thing that I can do
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before the conference,
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or is it something that I can,
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I, I, like we can still do the conference
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without doing so I have to just postpone it
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until afterwards? So some prioritization
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happens. But a lot of times it's like,
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okay, you know, like this,
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there's a thing that I need to do here.
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I don't know how to figure it out,
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let me start an org Babble block and start
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sketching out something,
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you know, custom function or whatever else,
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and then say okay, you know,
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hey, that looks kind of useful,
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let me see if I can generalize that,
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and then let me stick it into the library so
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that I can find it next year.
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And that's basically how it goes.
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It just goes, it just like,
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I have a thing that I need to do.
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If it's, if I'm going to do it more than
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once, or actually even if I'm going to do it,
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you know, once I tried to automate it just so
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that I can understand it and,
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and then I can, I can,
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I can squeeze it into like the 15 minutes I
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actually have and I can pause and I can pick
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it up again and the code is still there and
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my notes are still there?
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And then every little bit of the,
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every little step like that builds up.
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So I can write a short function today,
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and then tomorrow when the kid was asleep,
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I can write a little bit more of that.
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And so it just goes on from there.
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And then I just stuff that all in there.
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How well does this approach allow for other
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organisers to do individual customisations to
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their liking while still being able to
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collaborate effectively?
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We've actually split things up fairly neatly
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in the sense that for this year,
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for example, most everyone else was super
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busy, so I did all the heavy lifting up until
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people were available and then they jumped in
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with the audio normalization.
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Thank you very much, Leo,
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for doing all of that stuff and the hosting
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and all the other things.
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So I tend to do most of the Emacs list
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fiddling with and the shell scripting and
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stuff like that, aside from the FFmpeg
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incantations, which are too arcane for me to
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even think about. And then in the course of
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watching me deal with like,
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oh, no, this video is not playing.
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And then they see the commands that I'm
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using, like play and then,
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you know, play a world,
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which is the ideas of the talk that we were
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having a hard time with or MPD or whatever.
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Then the other organizers kind of just pick
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that up by osmosis, because We didn't even
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have time to do dry runs for training this
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year. So it's just there's not much
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collaboration in the sense that I'm just
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basically saying, OK, these are the scripts
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that I'm going to write for myself.
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And you all figure out how to work with that.
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What was the hardest problem you encountered
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in organizing or running the conference this
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year and how do you deal with it?
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Oh, the constant, constant problem with
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e-mails. There's so many amazing ideas.
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I want to fit into the time.
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And then afterwards, like,
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Sasha, do not mess with production the day
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before the conference.
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You're going to save that for after the
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conference, right? So that's the hardest
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part, is just saying, OK,
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yes, that's an idea. I'm going to put that in
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the inbox. We're going to maybe get to that
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next year. But right now,
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these are the things that I need to do in
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order to get the conference off the ground
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reasonably in a reasonable amount of time.
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So earlier in the conference,
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then I can be like, OK,
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what if we do this? What if we run everything
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off a crontab instead of using Emacs tramp
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timers? Wouldn't that be great?
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And then I can explore all those crazy ideas.
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But then as we get closer and closer to date,
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I'm like, okay, fine. I'm going to like just
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capture the idea and deal with it later.
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So that's really, really hard for me.
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Year to your growth in attendance and after
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the conference video watching.
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The growth, well, first thing,
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there is like absolute growth in the kind of
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the quantity of things that people are
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sharing. I have a blog post about this that
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talks about a number of minutes of talks,
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and it's going up. Last year,
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we did 2 tracks because I couldn't fit
00:13:05.460 --> 00:13:05.720
everything in 1 day. And this year,
00:13:07.000 --> 00:13:07.240
we did 2 tracks, but even then,
00:13:08.000 --> 00:13:08.360
everything was kind of squished,
00:13:09.880 --> 00:13:10.040
and I was trying to find space in the
00:13:11.940 --> 00:13:12.160
schedule. And if you make it so that next
00:13:13.500 --> 00:13:14.000
year, we have to figure out 3 tracks,
00:13:15.760 --> 00:13:16.000
I think We have another host now,
00:13:16.840 --> 00:13:17.340
so it might be doable,
00:13:19.540 --> 00:13:19.820
which is great. Who knows?
00:13:23.600 --> 00:13:23.860
We'll see. And the other interesting thing
00:13:25.320 --> 00:13:25.520
that I'm seeing in terms of growth is that
00:13:27.440 --> 00:13:27.720
people are starting to refer to the talks
00:13:29.800 --> 00:13:30.300
from previous conferences that inspired them.
00:13:32.980 --> 00:13:33.220
So the evil plan is working in that it is
00:13:35.000 --> 00:13:35.160
getting people to get cool stuff out of their
00:13:37.020 --> 00:13:37.200
heads and into videos that have like
00:13:39.560 --> 00:13:39.720
searchable transcripts and that people can
00:13:41.980 --> 00:13:42.280
refer to as for inspiration and for showing
00:13:42.980 --> 00:13:43.200
other people, hey, look,
00:13:44.060 --> 00:13:44.560
this is what it can do.
00:13:46.360 --> 00:13:46.860
So that is fantastic growth.
00:13:49.400 --> 00:13:49.540
The actual numbers, I'm intense to look at
00:13:51.160 --> 00:13:51.660
the number of simultaneous viewers.
00:13:53.860 --> 00:13:53.980
And every so often, it's kind of nice to go
00:13:55.960 --> 00:13:56.360
through the YouTube stats or whatever.
00:13:57.560 --> 00:13:57.980
But that's not so much as a,
00:14:01.120 --> 00:14:01.320
like, I don't really keep that in mind as
00:14:05.060 --> 00:14:05.560
much, just because as long as people are
00:14:07.660 --> 00:14:07.880
connecting to the ideas and getting stuff out
00:14:13.120 --> 00:14:13.440
there and being inspired to think around
00:14:16.220 --> 00:14:16.720
more, then it's doing the thing.
00:14:21.300 --> 00:14:21.460
Cognizant is working. So where are we now for
00:14:22.640 --> 00:14:23.140
questions? Ooh, I can actually,
00:14:25.320 --> 00:14:25.820
I have ERC here. I can find eventually.
00:14:28.200 --> 00:14:28.700
1 of my screens has Dev in it.
00:14:30.780 --> 00:14:31.260
Okay, here we are. What are the other
00:14:34.900 --> 00:14:35.400
questions? Probably, Probably an IRC.
00:14:39.120 --> 00:14:39.520
Where's IRC? Dove, dove,
00:14:45.700 --> 00:14:46.200
dove. I did try to record things more slowly,
00:14:47.200 --> 00:14:47.520
and I tried several times,
00:14:49.920 --> 00:14:50.020
but I really just speak very quickly when I
00:14:53.300 --> 00:14:53.480
get excited and Emacs is very fun so it is
00:14:59.960 --> 00:15:00.460
tough oh yes okay so 1 in once yes automated
00:15:04.440 --> 00:15:04.540
present workflows oh yeah okay so where are
00:15:05.660 --> 00:15:05.840
we now for time? Oh look,
00:15:07.440 --> 00:15:07.900
it's 4.30, should we do our closing remarks
00:15:09.280 --> 00:15:09.440
or like how are things going over in the
00:15:11.840 --> 00:15:12.340
other stream? I should find out.
00:15:14.760 --> 00:15:14.860
[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I've been keeping a close eye on the
00:15:16.400 --> 00:15:16.900
other 1, but yeah, I believe that-
00:15:19.800 --> 00:15:20.300
[Speaker 0]: Yay, look at that, good timing.
00:15:22.880 --> 00:15:23.300
Okay, I have managed to zoom through the
00:15:26.660 --> 00:15:26.980
questions and we can switch over to the
00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:31.740
closing remarks how do we do this yes okay
00:15:35.060 --> 00:15:35.400
okay we're gonna oh wait people okay people
00:15:37.580 --> 00:15:37.760
who wanted to ask questions how do you want
00:15:39.120 --> 00:15:39.360
to do this? Because there are a lot of people
00:15:42.040 --> 00:15:42.240
in this 1 here too. You want to go to the
00:15:48.820 --> 00:15:49.320
other 1? 0 no, they aren't done yet.
00:15:51.180 --> 00:15:51.600
Sorry, I forgot to turn on the con tab
00:15:52.500 --> 00:15:53.000
because of course I got excited.
00:15:54.840 --> 00:15:55.200
Okay, so Jacob is still answering questions,
00:15:56.940 --> 00:15:57.440
which means I get to still answer questions.
00:15:59.880 --> 00:16:00.060
Now I'll try to be quiet and let people in
00:16:01.720 --> 00:16:02.220
the BBB room speak up if we want to.
00:16:12.040 --> 00:16:12.540
Okay that means
00:16:13.585 --> 00:16:13.650
[Speaker 3]: are going to hear.
00:16:13.715 --> 00:16:13.780
[Speaker 1]: Some more
00:16:15.660 --> 00:16:16.100
[Speaker 2]: people in the chat ideas I had on the Emacs
00:16:17.500 --> 00:16:18.000
conferences you could have like a little
00:16:21.300 --> 00:16:21.660
Emacs starter config just for like the Emacs
00:16:26.720 --> 00:16:27.040
conference where you have emms playlist and
00:16:29.540 --> 00:16:29.780
IRC help cheer function to help get you into
00:16:35.200 --> 00:16:35.320
IRC into ERC and then the to-do states that I
00:16:36.060 --> 00:16:36.560
was talking about before.
00:16:40.200 --> 00:16:40.380
So you can say, I'm watching this 1,
00:16:41.320 --> 00:16:41.480
I want to re-watch this 1,
00:16:42.780 --> 00:16:43.080
but I'm going to skip it because I'm watching
00:16:52.820 --> 00:16:53.220
something else. I used the HyperBowl package
00:16:55.680 --> 00:16:55.860
to go straight to the web pages to all the
00:16:59.600 --> 00:16:59.860
either pads but you can also have some quick
00:17:04.540 --> 00:17:04.960
functions to go into a CRDT buffer hosted
00:17:07.400 --> 00:17:07.900
buffer, where all the org mode Etherpad
00:17:14.220 --> 00:17:14.440
documents would be. And then that would get
00:17:15.280 --> 00:17:15.780
everybody using Emacs,
00:17:17.680 --> 00:17:17.839
and then they could all be chatting with each
00:17:23.480 --> 00:17:23.980
other with CRDT, with controlling Emacs.
00:17:25.440 --> 00:17:25.680
I don't know how the sub stuff,
00:17:27.160 --> 00:17:27.339
I don't know if you can get the sub stuff in
00:17:29.720 --> 00:17:30.060
there working, but yeah,
00:17:32.900 --> 00:17:33.160
It could be a good way of getting it all
00:17:34.920 --> 00:17:35.420
wrapped up together. And also,
00:17:38.040 --> 00:17:38.400
Mkron, if you ever looked at that versus
00:17:40.800 --> 00:17:41.300
Kron, Mkron is configured in Elisp.
00:17:43.320 --> 00:17:43.740
Then you can also write some custom functions
00:17:44.620 --> 00:17:45.120
in the middle of your Kron.
00:17:46.800 --> 00:17:47.280
So maybe you could make some like conditional
00:17:48.960 --> 00:17:49.460
things where you can start or stop it.
00:17:56.320 --> 00:17:56.440
And like 1 of the differences is if your
00:17:58.860 --> 00:17:59.100
computer reboots, it can start up and say,
00:18:01.780 --> 00:18:02.160
oh, I'm supposed to run this cron job at this
00:18:04.960 --> 00:18:05.200
time and then just Do the correct thing
00:18:08.100 --> 00:18:08.600
rather than losing the state Randomly because
00:18:10.440 --> 00:18:10.940
your computer lost power
00:18:15.700 --> 00:18:15.900
[Speaker 0]: Thanks for those recommendations I will add
00:18:17.640 --> 00:18:18.140
mcron to my list of things to check out.
00:18:23.640 --> 00:18:24.020
And yeah, we finally remembered to publish
00:18:25.160 --> 00:18:25.400
all those schedules as org,
00:18:27.540 --> 00:18:27.840
and I decided to just spam all the time zones
00:18:28.520 --> 00:18:29.020
with them, which was fantastic.
00:18:30.480 --> 00:18:30.620
And other people have mentioned that this is
00:18:32.720 --> 00:18:32.960
useful. We get to figure out how to use this
00:18:35.740 --> 00:18:35.900
to teach people more about what you can do
00:18:36.620 --> 00:18:37.120
with org. As you mentioned,
00:18:40.920 --> 00:18:41.280
encouraging them to tag the stuff with things
00:18:43.360 --> 00:18:43.860
that they want to attend gives us the ability
00:18:45.920 --> 00:18:46.240
to set up an agenda view for them that has
00:18:47.840 --> 00:18:48.340
the talks that are tagged with those tags.
00:18:48.580 --> 00:18:48.600
[Speaker 3]: So I
00:18:49.280 --> 00:18:49.780
[Speaker 0]: was like, okay, let's,
00:18:53.880 --> 00:18:54.340
let's teach org mode and lisp in the process
00:18:58.120 --> 00:18:58.380
of doing things. Okay,
00:19:00.860 --> 00:19:01.000
there was a question about any chance of an
00:19:02.720 --> 00:19:03.220
in person EmacsConf again someday.
00:19:05.580 --> 00:19:06.000
And I was actually at the very first EMAX
00:19:11.040 --> 00:19:11.400
Conf, which was 2013 and organized in London
00:19:12.980 --> 00:19:13.080
to take advantage of the fact that I had a
00:19:15.920 --> 00:19:16.160
business shift there. It was fantastic being
00:19:18.760 --> 00:19:19.120
in a room with 100 other people who are all
00:19:19.960 --> 00:19:20.460
really interested in Emacs,
00:19:23.400 --> 00:19:23.560
but I'm not traveling like any time for the
00:19:25.560 --> 00:19:25.680
foreseeable future, so if other people are
00:19:27.500 --> 00:19:27.800
interested in organizing something like that,
00:19:29.260 --> 00:19:29.760
I am totally happy to spread the word.
00:19:31.440 --> 00:19:31.860
It doesn't fit with my current lifestyle,
00:19:32.860 --> 00:19:33.360
but it might fit somebody's.
00:19:37.080 --> 00:19:37.580
I don't know. We're still just here.
00:19:38.800 --> 00:19:39.300
And I like the virtual conference.
00:19:41.880 --> 00:19:42.120
I really like the fact that we can bring
00:19:43.780 --> 00:19:44.280
together people from all over the world.
00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:46.840
I can take a look at my schedule with all the
00:19:47.540 --> 00:19:47.720
time constraints. Okay,
00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:49.300
I need to put this person in the morning
00:19:50.720 --> 00:19:50.800
because they're in Australia and I need to
00:19:52.160 --> 00:19:52.360
put this person in the afternoon because
00:19:56.120 --> 00:19:56.360
they're from Vancouver or from somewhere else
00:19:58.020 --> 00:19:58.520
in the Pacific time zone.
00:20:01.420 --> 00:20:01.920
And it's just this breadth of people.
00:20:04.140 --> 00:20:04.300
But the other thing that I would love for
00:20:06.220 --> 00:20:06.420
people to start thinking about is if we could
00:20:08.300 --> 00:20:08.560
have a virtual conference in other time
00:20:11.320 --> 00:20:11.580
zones, so that's easier for people in Asia
00:20:12.720 --> 00:20:13.220
Pacific or Europe to attend.
00:20:16.080 --> 00:20:16.580
And as we're getting the hang of this,
00:20:17.840 --> 00:20:18.080
this crontab-based thing,
00:20:20.140 --> 00:20:20.320
I think we might almost be at the point where
00:20:22.320 --> 00:20:22.540
I can set it up to run even when I'm
00:20:24.720 --> 00:20:25.080
sleeping. And then other people can figure
00:20:26.120 --> 00:20:26.520
out, you know, the exception handling,
00:20:27.780 --> 00:20:27.900
oh, you know, this talk needs to be
00:20:30.420 --> 00:20:30.780
restarted. Okay, just play it again and scrub
00:20:31.800 --> 00:20:32.300
around to find the right part,
00:20:34.500 --> 00:20:35.000
which means we could have replays,
00:20:37.060 --> 00:20:37.560
or we can have like the Asia Pacific
00:20:39.140 --> 00:20:39.440
Alternate Event that we had the other time
00:20:45.600 --> 00:20:45.780
where some speakers came back online and did
00:20:48.840 --> 00:20:49.040
another Q&A session just for that kind of
00:20:51.360 --> 00:20:51.660
event. So those are other cool,
00:20:52.960 --> 00:20:53.460
fun things that would love to be,
00:20:57.700 --> 00:20:58.140
would be great. Satellite events,
00:20:59.480 --> 00:20:59.980
someone mentioned in the etherpad.
00:21:03.280 --> 00:21:03.520
Some people have been organizing these,
00:21:05.020 --> 00:21:05.280
which are great. Basically a bunch of people
00:21:07.800 --> 00:21:08.080
get together in a room or 2 rooms now because
00:21:10.320 --> 00:21:10.820
of the tracks and watch Emacs Conf together.
00:21:12.940 --> 00:21:13.140
So if you have a physical meetup or if you'd
00:21:15.360 --> 00:21:15.760
like to start 1, It's basically,
00:21:17.860 --> 00:21:17.960
you know, do this, maybe have stickers if you
00:21:19.900 --> 00:21:20.200
have stickers. You know,
00:21:22.540 --> 00:21:22.800
it's just have everyone come over and hang
00:21:24.440 --> 00:21:24.680
out and meet people. I don't know.
00:21:27.540 --> 00:21:27.660
It's a thing. Specifically how to do it,
00:21:29.200 --> 00:21:29.700
I have no idea how to organize these things.
00:21:32.080 --> 00:21:32.580
But Alain does. So talk to him.
00:21:35.280 --> 00:21:35.580
[Speaker 2]: Another way of adding multiple tracks is
00:21:37.640 --> 00:21:38.140
changing it to doing it like 2 times a year,
00:21:39.760 --> 00:21:40.260
in max confidence.
00:21:44.340 --> 00:21:44.640
[Speaker 0]: Yeah, yeah, people have mentioned something
00:21:50.080 --> 00:21:50.320
like that. Or the fact that org often has
00:21:51.860 --> 00:21:52.280
like a full day of talks by itself,
00:21:53.800 --> 00:21:53.980
and actually a little bit more than a day
00:21:55.440 --> 00:21:55.640
now, because I've been squeezing things into
00:21:58.260 --> 00:21:58.760
other tracks. There has been some potential
00:22:00.060 --> 00:22:00.560
interest in having an org conf.
00:22:03.240 --> 00:22:03.480
It could be a thing. And I'd love to see
00:22:05.760 --> 00:22:06.240
also, we'd love to experiment with other
00:22:08.900 --> 00:22:09.240
formats. So there could be a bug hunting
00:22:13.740 --> 00:22:13.900
session or let's use the breakout rooms to
00:22:15.920 --> 00:22:16.120
split up into little mentoring groups and see
00:22:18.040 --> 00:22:18.240
how that works. So lots of things that we can
00:22:21.460 --> 00:22:21.760
do. They've actually finished over in the Gen
00:22:24.360 --> 00:22:24.620
track so I don't know if people want to very
00:22:26.480 --> 00:22:26.920
quickly ask questions here or if we go there.
00:22:31.000 --> 00:22:31.260
Leo has come over here instead so okay he's
00:22:32.560 --> 00:22:33.060
joining over here on the other side.
00:22:35.680 --> 00:22:36.180
Okay, hello.
00:22:38.060 --> 00:22:38.560
[Speaker 3]: I
00:22:43.260 --> 00:22:43.440
[Speaker 1]: have 1 thing to add. Yeah,
00:22:46.480 --> 00:22:46.720
[Speaker 4]: No, no, no, I was just about to say I am not
00:22:48.420 --> 00:22:48.680
hosting anymore. You 2 do a wonderful job,
00:22:49.640 --> 00:22:50.140
and I'm happy to just watch.
00:22:53.860 --> 00:22:54.000
[Speaker 1]: go ahead. Cool. Yeah, I was going to add 1
00:22:56.520 --> 00:22:56.660
quick note about any potential suggestions or
00:22:58.080 --> 00:22:58.240
recommendations for hosting Emacs on
00:23:00.160 --> 00:23:00.240
satellites. Is that, I mean,
00:23:01.800 --> 00:23:02.300
given that we are an event centered around
00:23:07.360 --> 00:23:07.440
Emacs, and Emacs is backed by the Free
00:23:09.160 --> 00:23:09.320
Software Foundation, if you do reach out to
00:23:11.180 --> 00:23:11.680
them, they're usually pretty helpful in terms
00:23:14.340 --> 00:23:14.840
of sending goodies and stickers and such.
00:23:16.880 --> 00:23:17.040
So yeah, if you give them a heads up and
00:23:17.900 --> 00:23:18.400
reach out to them in advance,
00:23:20.800 --> 00:23:20.880
you might well end up with a whole bunch of
00:23:22.800 --> 00:23:23.000
swag on your hands that you could give out
00:23:24.860 --> 00:23:25.360
during the satellite. So that's the thing.
00:23:35.500 --> 00:23:36.000
[Speaker 5]: Well, I just wanted to note it felt kind of
00:23:37.640 --> 00:23:37.840
even smoother. I mean,
00:23:39.720 --> 00:23:40.160
you guys always run a nice conference,
00:23:43.180 --> 00:23:43.460
but it felt smoother this year than ever
00:23:45.600 --> 00:23:45.980
before, which listening to your talk,
00:23:48.480 --> 00:23:48.900
Sasha, All the automation that you're doing
00:23:52.400 --> 00:23:52.740
is pretty incredible. So I think it's paying
00:23:52.740 --> 00:23:53.240
off.
00:23:58.180 --> 00:23:58.320
[Speaker 0]: Yay! You know, it is very amusing to hear the
00:23:59.240 --> 00:23:59.440
host say, okay, you know,
00:24:00.720 --> 00:24:01.000
but we've got to wrap up in the next 30
00:24:02.960 --> 00:24:03.040
seconds because Sasha's contact is going to
00:24:03.240 --> 00:24:03.740
go yoink!
00:24:12.800 --> 00:24:12.980
[Speaker 5]: I have a person I work with who keeps the
00:24:15.360 --> 00:24:15.860
trains running on time shall we say and like
00:24:18.940 --> 00:24:19.140
cuts off every meeting like the second that
00:24:21.140 --> 00:24:21.320
it's supposed to end while somebody's in
00:24:24.860 --> 00:24:25.080
mid-sentence and I hope we don't get to that
00:24:25.380 --> 00:24:25.880
point here.
00:24:34.560 --> 00:24:34.740
[Speaker 0]: So do we have any more,
00:24:36.080 --> 00:24:36.360
[Speaker 4]: oh sorry I'm reverting to the hosting,
00:24:37.440 --> 00:24:37.900
Do we have any more questions for MaxConf?
00:24:39.760 --> 00:24:39.960
Although maybe we want to switch to the other
00:24:41.580 --> 00:24:41.760
room so that we don't struggle too much to
00:24:44.340 --> 00:24:44.840
find... Organize the stuff on BBB afterwards.
00:24:46.360 --> 00:24:46.620
[Speaker 0]: Oh, the recording. Well,
00:24:48.340 --> 00:24:48.640
this is a way to make sure the recording gets
00:24:54.240 --> 00:24:54.640
online. But we could do that too.
00:24:55.760 --> 00:24:56.260
I don't know. What do y'all think?
00:25:00.580 --> 00:25:00.900
[Speaker 4]: I'm personally fine. If we want to stay here
00:25:02.720 --> 00:25:03.220
right now, the development track is currently
00:25:05.280 --> 00:25:05.780
streaming this BBB room.
00:25:08.760 --> 00:25:08.940
So are we on Jen. So we're going to leave it
00:25:10.760 --> 00:25:10.840
at is and move into closing remarks if we
00:25:10.840 --> 00:25:11.340
want.
00:25:14.720 --> 00:25:15.060
[Speaker 1]: Oh, yeah, just, I guess,
00:25:17.720 --> 00:25:17.920
make sure that every 1 of the organizers are
00:25:20.740 --> 00:25:21.060
here. I see Flo here. Let's see,
00:25:23.480 --> 00:25:23.860
Corbyn, are you here? Can you maybe speak
00:25:24.280 --> 00:25:24.780
here on BBB?
00:25:32.860 --> 00:25:33.000
[Speaker 4]: We'll give some time for Corbyn to figure it
00:25:33.840 --> 00:25:34.280
out. He did figure it out eventually
00:25:36.260 --> 00:25:36.420
yesterday, so surely today will go
00:25:36.420 --> 00:25:36.920
swimmingly.
00:25:47.420 --> 00:25:47.720
Right. We're getting everything ready,
00:25:47.720 --> 00:25:48.220
folks.
00:25:57.100 --> 00:25:57.600
[Speaker 0]: Okay. So while we sort out Corwin,
00:25:58.980 --> 00:25:59.280
can someone tell him on mumble,
00:26:00.480 --> 00:26:00.980
I guess? Because I'm not sure if he's...
00:26:05.060 --> 00:26:05.420
Anyway. I also want to say that in the Emacs
00:26:06.580 --> 00:26:06.740
conference channel, people have been
00:26:08.880 --> 00:26:09.060
mentioning that the remote stuff has been
00:26:10.840 --> 00:26:10.920
working for them. And I really do like the
00:26:12.720 --> 00:26:12.880
way that this means we can have all the
00:26:13.980 --> 00:26:14.480
videos, you know, all prepared,
00:26:16.020 --> 00:26:16.220
they're captioned, you know,
00:26:17.160 --> 00:26:17.580
We can send them to people,
00:26:19.000 --> 00:26:19.500
we can post them on the website afterwards.
00:26:21.540 --> 00:26:22.020
We can bring all these people together who
00:26:23.440 --> 00:26:23.880
might not be able to convince their companies
00:26:25.240 --> 00:26:25.680
to fly them somewhere for an Emacs
00:26:29.640 --> 00:26:29.760
conference. And also I can do this kind of
00:26:32.120 --> 00:26:32.620
prep while having my now seven-year-old still
00:26:34.480 --> 00:26:34.980
be able to wander by and whatever.
00:26:36.820 --> 00:26:37.320
Travelling is really tough.
00:26:39.220 --> 00:26:39.600
So, this is fine. This is cool.
00:26:40.760 --> 00:26:41.260
I like this. We'll keep doing it.
00:26:44.240 --> 00:26:44.740
[Speaker 4]: It's definitely playing into the low-cost
00:26:46.360 --> 00:26:46.820
conference. To do it online,
00:26:48.160 --> 00:26:48.400
So many people can just access it very
00:26:53.760 --> 00:26:54.220
easily. All right, so we've messaged Colwyn.
00:26:55.760 --> 00:26:56.040
I guess we can get started with Dalim.
00:26:57.720 --> 00:26:57.900
It should maybe take a minute or 2 to join
00:27:01.400 --> 00:27:01.640
us. Should I get started with the Final words
00:27:04.540 --> 00:27:04.900
of the day? All right,
00:27:05.740 --> 00:27:06.240
cool. All right, folks,
00:27:08.220 --> 00:27:08.440
we made it. We are at the end of the second
00:27:10.320 --> 00:27:10.820
day of EmacsConf, the second of 2 days.
00:27:12.620 --> 00:27:13.040
And the first thing I want to say is first,
00:27:15.360 --> 00:27:15.660
thank you so much for joining us for this new
00:27:19.020 --> 00:27:19.200
edition. It's personally my fourth year doing
00:27:22.000 --> 00:27:22.500
the EmacsConf, but if you go to emacsconf-org
00:27:24.660 --> 00:27:25.080
and you see the different sessions,
00:27:27.380 --> 00:27:27.660
you will realize that the first 1 was in
00:27:29.820 --> 00:27:30.300
2013, which happens to be 10 years ago.
00:27:33.340 --> 00:27:33.480
So we are obviously very excited about all of
00:27:35.420 --> 00:27:35.680
this and we'll tell you perhaps a little more
00:27:38.100 --> 00:27:38.300
about what has changed over the last 10
00:27:41.760 --> 00:27:42.260
years. As usual, you know the pre-recorded
00:27:44.540 --> 00:27:44.800
talks are available right now on the talk
00:27:46.640 --> 00:27:46.800
page, at least for all those which were
00:27:48.620 --> 00:27:48.760
pre-recorded. All the ones which happened on
00:27:50.200 --> 00:27:50.320
the Google button, it will take us a little
00:27:52.360 --> 00:27:52.780
bit of time to figure out how to,
00:27:54.320 --> 00:27:54.820
well, when to put them available.
00:27:56.480 --> 00:27:56.880
We need to do subtitles and all this jazzy
00:27:59.060 --> 00:27:59.440
stuff. And we'll also upload them to YouTube
00:28:01.500 --> 00:28:02.000
and other places once we check the audio,
00:28:02.700 --> 00:28:03.200
especially for the Q&As.
00:28:05.140 --> 00:28:05.280
We need to clean up some of the audios and
00:28:08.300 --> 00:28:08.680
make sure that we do not publish any personal
00:28:13.040 --> 00:28:13.220
stuff. All the live talks and Q&As will do
00:28:14.200 --> 00:28:14.700
this in the weeks to come.
00:28:16.680 --> 00:28:16.800
Usually, it takes us about 1 to 2 months to
00:28:17.480 --> 00:28:17.640
try to get everything out,
00:28:18.280 --> 00:28:18.680
but if it takes longer,
00:28:19.540 --> 00:28:20.040
it's fine. Eventually,
00:28:20.900 --> 00:28:21.180
everything will be there.
00:28:23.360 --> 00:28:23.860
The 1 thing we can say is that by EmacsConf
00:28:26.160 --> 00:28:26.660
2024, when it comes around,
00:28:28.680 --> 00:28:28.840
everything should have been uploaded at some
00:28:30.100 --> 00:28:30.600
point. So that's a wide window.
00:28:34.340 --> 00:28:34.700
So again, and as usual,
00:28:35.980 --> 00:28:36.480
feel free to spread the word about EmacsConf
00:28:38.860 --> 00:28:38.940
because, you know, we've been doing this for
00:28:42.100 --> 00:28:42.280
a while and every year more people show up to
00:28:43.980 --> 00:28:44.440
these events and more people watch the videos
00:28:46.620 --> 00:28:47.120
on YouTube and it's wonderful to see,
00:28:49.940 --> 00:28:50.220
you know, our main goal which is to get cool
00:28:51.400 --> 00:28:51.900
ideas out of the head of people,
00:28:53.860 --> 00:28:54.280
shared and viewed by so many people.
00:28:56.660 --> 00:28:57.160
It's always amazing. Also,
00:28:58.180 --> 00:28:58.680
I would like to ask you personally,
00:28:59.700 --> 00:29:00.060
what did you like about this conference?
00:29:01.780 --> 00:29:01.980
Or what do you like, what do you feel was
00:29:02.640 --> 00:29:02.860
better than last year,
00:29:05.440 --> 00:29:05.840
because the feedback is very useful to us.
00:29:07.340 --> 00:29:07.540
We'd also like to know if you've got any
00:29:08.940 --> 00:29:09.440
ideas for making things even better.
00:29:11.680 --> 00:29:12.180
And we've got a general conference discussion
00:29:13.900 --> 00:29:14.400
slash notes slash community message board,
00:29:14.920 --> 00:29:15.420
which is pad.emaxconf.org
00:29:19.280 --> 00:29:19.640
slash 2023. And you can also just mention
00:29:22.120 --> 00:29:22.300
them. You know, we might open this room for
00:29:24.080 --> 00:29:24.520
people to join us and chat,
00:29:25.480 --> 00:29:25.960
although Flowy and myself,
00:29:27.340 --> 00:29:27.540
your up team, needs to go to bed.
00:29:28.480 --> 00:29:28.680
So please be mindful of this.
00:29:29.760 --> 00:29:30.160
If you ask a very interesting question,
00:29:32.260 --> 00:29:32.560
We will both have to make sacrifices to stay
00:29:34.300 --> 00:29:34.680
a while longer because you're too damn
00:29:38.620 --> 00:29:39.080
interesting. Now we'd like to move into
00:29:41.000 --> 00:29:41.500
thanking all the people who make EmacsConf
00:29:42.660 --> 00:29:43.080
possible. And obviously,
00:29:45.060 --> 00:29:45.560
first, we have to thank all the speakers,
00:29:46.960 --> 00:29:47.460
all the volunteers, the participants,
00:29:49.960 --> 00:29:50.240
and to all those other people in our lives
00:29:51.660 --> 00:29:51.820
who make it possible through time and
00:29:53.920 --> 00:29:54.060
support, thank you so much for allowing us to
00:29:55.760 --> 00:29:55.960
run EmacsCount. It wouldn't happen without
00:29:57.160 --> 00:29:57.440
you, and without us, I suppose,
00:29:58.540 --> 00:29:59.040
because we are included in this.
00:30:01.720 --> 00:30:02.220
This year's conference hosts are myself,
00:30:03.400 --> 00:30:03.900
Leo Vivier, Amine Bendali,
00:30:05.860 --> 00:30:06.100
and joining our team of hosts for the first
00:30:07.080 --> 00:30:07.540
time this year, Flobby Coder.
00:30:08.200 --> 00:30:08.360
Thank you so much, Flobby.
00:30:09.340 --> 00:30:09.840
You did a wonderful job.
00:30:11.600 --> 00:30:12.100
It's right there. No, dammit.
00:30:15.180 --> 00:30:15.360
No, I can't. I can never remember if BBB is
00:30:17.120 --> 00:30:17.360
flipping stuff, so either 1 of those
00:30:19.600 --> 00:30:20.020
directions. The streams this year,
00:30:21.760 --> 00:30:22.200
as last year, were managed by Sasha Schwa,
00:30:24.400 --> 00:30:24.820
obviously. And the check-ins by Flobby Coder,
00:30:27.400 --> 00:30:27.740
and I'm in with Miscellaneous running around
00:30:30.020 --> 00:30:30.520
by Corwin Brust, who will be joining us
00:30:32.000 --> 00:30:32.500
momentarily. Apparently,
00:30:34.920 --> 00:30:35.140
all his USB failed, so he will be with us as
00:30:38.140 --> 00:30:38.640
[Speaker 3]: Roost. Rhymes with Roost.
00:30:41.040 --> 00:30:41.380
Do I have audio now? Alright,
00:30:42.380 --> 00:30:42.800
I'll go to work on my camera.
00:30:43.820 --> 00:30:44.320
Hi. Hello?
00:30:45.540 --> 00:30:45.980
[Speaker 4]: soon as he can. It's Lovely.
00:30:46.640 --> 00:30:47.140
Okay, I'll keep going.
00:30:49.120 --> 00:30:49.460
I also need to thank, well,
00:30:51.100 --> 00:30:51.480
need, no, I want to thank all the captioning
00:30:53.040 --> 00:30:53.400
volunteers, the captioners as we call them.
00:30:54.380 --> 00:30:54.880
You've got Daniel Molina,
00:30:57.160 --> 00:30:57.660
Bala Ramadoui, Durai, sorry,
00:30:59.140 --> 00:30:59.640
Bhavin Gandhi, Amin Zayed,
00:31:02.220 --> 00:31:02.440
Yoni Rapkin, who presented 1 of the talk
00:31:04.240 --> 00:31:04.740
earlier, Daniel Alejandro Tapia,
00:31:06.060 --> 00:31:06.560
Hannah Miller, Ken Huang,
00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:07.700
Jean-Christophe Ellary,
00:31:10.440 --> 00:31:10.800
and James Howell. Also thanking
00:31:11.320 --> 00:31:11.760
Jean-Christophe Ellary,
00:31:13.220 --> 00:31:13.680
Colwyn, Quiliro, Kern,
00:31:15.420 --> 00:31:15.800
and Amin Bendali for helping with the early
00:31:18.120 --> 00:31:18.620
acceptance process. Sasha,
00:31:21.180 --> 00:31:21.600
do I read this 1? It's weird to think myself.
00:31:22.740 --> 00:31:23.080
I'm gonna pat myself on the back,
00:31:24.780 --> 00:31:25.280
I guess. Go on, Sasha.
00:31:26.720 --> 00:31:26.920
I'll do it. I'll do it.
00:31:29.160 --> 00:31:29.340
It's fine. Thanks to myself for fiddling with
00:31:30.900 --> 00:31:31.400
the audio to get things nicely synced,
00:31:34.120 --> 00:31:34.340
And thanks to myself again and other people,
00:31:36.840 --> 00:31:37.340
we kept the mailing list free from spam.
00:31:39.320 --> 00:31:39.440
Because I'm not sure what happened since May,
00:31:41.820 --> 00:31:42.180
but we've been receiving about 3 to 4 spam
00:31:44.760 --> 00:31:45.040
emails. And it just happened all of a sudden,
00:31:46.400 --> 00:31:46.900
and I was really weirded out by this process.
00:31:51.380 --> 00:31:51.880
Where was I? OK, thanks to Andrew Ducurty for
00:31:53.000 --> 00:31:53.500
helping with whisper processing.
00:31:55.840 --> 00:31:56.200
Thanks to Ashki Ghekwad for design
00:31:57.540 --> 00:31:58.040
contribution. Thanks to Yoshin,
00:31:59.900 --> 00:32:00.040
our grand changro for all the music that
00:32:01.840 --> 00:32:01.960
we've been using for the last 3 years at this
00:32:04.740 --> 00:32:04.840
point, I think. Also thanks to Rye for the
00:32:06.820 --> 00:32:07.020
server that we're using for OBS streaming and
00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:08.220
for processing videos.
00:32:10.440 --> 00:32:10.800
And also thanks to the free software
00:32:12.540 --> 00:32:13.040
foundation for obviously Emacs itself,
00:32:14.340 --> 00:32:14.840
the mailing list that we use,
00:32:15.340 --> 00:32:15.840
and the media.emacsconf-org
00:32:19.540 --> 00:32:19.780
server where all of the presentations are
00:32:22.200 --> 00:32:22.580
currently hosted. We'd also like to thank
00:32:23.520 --> 00:32:24.020
BigBlueButton, Etherpad,
00:32:25.920 --> 00:32:26.420
IceCast, OBS, The Lounge,
00:32:28.480 --> 00:32:28.980
Libre.chat, FFmpeg, OpenAI,
00:32:31.300 --> 00:32:31.800
Whisper, the E-N-E-S force alignment tool,
00:32:34.640 --> 00:32:35.000
Site Transfer, SubD, and contributors to all
00:32:36.900 --> 00:32:37.020
of the tools and services we used in the
00:32:37.600 --> 00:32:38.000
making of this conference.
00:32:39.520 --> 00:32:39.960
And obviously, all of them are free,
00:32:41.480 --> 00:32:41.880
as Sasha obviously told you,
00:32:44.080 --> 00:32:44.260
and as we will be telling you again for many
00:32:47.700 --> 00:32:48.060
years to come. We'd also like again to thank
00:32:49.780 --> 00:32:50.140
everyone for attending the conference and
00:32:51.820 --> 00:32:52.320
making EmacsConf what it is.
00:32:54.000 --> 00:32:54.280
And for those who were on the general track,
00:32:56.540 --> 00:32:56.720
you know Sasha did it in parallel to the last
00:32:58.980 --> 00:32:59.340
talk we had today. She did a wonderful talk
00:33:01.680 --> 00:33:02.180
on how EmacsConf is actually run.
00:33:05.620 --> 00:33:06.060
So there's her talk, there's also an entire
00:33:07.760 --> 00:33:08.260
page on our wiki about the infrastructure
00:33:09.920 --> 00:33:10.400
that we use. So if you're interested,
00:33:11.880 --> 00:33:12.380
especially in running an event of your own,
00:33:14.340 --> 00:33:14.540
you've got as much information as you want,
00:33:15.600 --> 00:33:15.940
and as Sacha probably told you,
00:33:17.600 --> 00:33:18.100
we are available for sharing the knowledge
00:33:20.820 --> 00:33:20.940
and enabling your dreams of making a
00:33:24.220 --> 00:33:24.340
conference. Amint, do you want to take it
00:33:25.680 --> 00:33:26.180
over with the fiscal sponsorship
00:33:29.320 --> 00:33:29.480
[Speaker 1]: Yeah, sure. Let's see.
00:33:30.980 --> 00:33:31.480
Can you please scroll down a little bit?
00:33:33.520 --> 00:33:34.020
Whoever is kindly sharing the screen.
00:33:34.460 --> 00:33:34.960
[Speaker 4]: announcements? Okay. Oh,
00:33:36.140 --> 00:33:36.360
I was scrolling on my end.
00:33:36.360 --> 00:33:36.860
Sorry.
00:33:41.380 --> 00:33:41.780
[Speaker 1]: Thanks, Sasha. Yeah, so kind of super excited
00:33:43.080 --> 00:33:43.300
to finally get into this.
00:33:45.220 --> 00:33:45.300
And this is something that we've been kind of
00:33:46.960 --> 00:33:47.200
hoping to get worked out for a long time
00:33:48.280 --> 00:33:48.780
actually and it's finally here.
00:33:52.900 --> 00:33:53.140
So people might have already seen this but as
00:33:57.620 --> 00:33:58.120
of this last Thursday we're actually fiscally
00:33:59.440 --> 00:33:59.940
sponsored by the Free Software Foundation.
00:34:03.480 --> 00:34:03.740
So we joined their Working Together for Free
00:34:07.720 --> 00:34:07.840
Software program. And DFSF published the
00:34:08.540 --> 00:34:08.940
announcement on their website.
00:34:11.000 --> 00:34:11.500
You're welcome to go and check it out there.
00:34:14.060 --> 00:34:14.280
But I just want to quickly get into a little
00:34:17.900 --> 00:34:18.040
bit about what it means and some of the
00:34:21.719 --> 00:34:22.000
benefits, I guess. So as part of this working
00:34:23.300 --> 00:34:23.800
together for a free software fund,
00:34:26.580 --> 00:34:26.679
the FSF provides fiscal sponsorship for a
00:34:29.060 --> 00:34:29.320
number of important free software and new
00:34:30.900 --> 00:34:31.239
technical projects, such as the new tool
00:34:33.679 --> 00:34:33.840
chain and Replicant, which is a free fork of
00:34:36.340 --> 00:34:36.540
Android. And starting this year,
00:34:38.360 --> 00:34:38.800
EmacsConf has joined the program as well.
00:34:40.960 --> 00:34:41.440
And as a fiscal sponsor,
00:34:43.520 --> 00:34:44.020
DFSF can assist us by providing services
00:34:46.500 --> 00:34:46.940
required by a legal entity,
00:34:49.300 --> 00:34:49.460
like signing contracts and receiving and
00:34:53.080 --> 00:34:53.360
processing payments. So to provide some
00:34:56.820 --> 00:34:57.040
context, eMAXConf is and always has been an
00:34:58.740 --> 00:34:58.940
independent initiative organized by a very
00:34:59.700 --> 00:35:00.140
small number of people,
00:35:02.120 --> 00:35:02.560
a small team of people without any corporate
00:35:05.980 --> 00:35:06.220
sponsors. And that's important in part
00:35:08.880 --> 00:35:09.380
because I believe part of our message is that
00:35:11.860 --> 00:35:12.040
we want to showcase that everybody can do
00:35:14.200 --> 00:35:14.380
this and organize a conference like this no
00:35:17.200 --> 00:35:17.560
matter how small your team is and how modest
00:35:19.540 --> 00:35:19.900
your resources are, which we will actually
00:35:21.260 --> 00:35:21.560
get into a little bit later in the closing
00:35:25.760 --> 00:35:25.900
remarks. But yeah, so now having the FSF as
00:35:27.780 --> 00:35:28.020
our fiscal sponsor, we're in a better
00:35:30.200 --> 00:35:30.680
position to accept donations as 1 potential
00:35:33.360 --> 00:35:33.860
way to contribute or help the conference.
00:35:36.360 --> 00:35:36.860
And just to clarify, we're currently not
00:35:39.360 --> 00:35:39.520
struggling at all to cover these costs of the
00:35:41.000 --> 00:35:41.240
servers and such, which we will get into
00:35:44.720 --> 00:35:45.060
again. But this is just 1 extra avenue if
00:35:46.720 --> 00:35:46.880
people are feeling generous and would like to
00:35:47.880 --> 00:35:48.380
help, it's much appreciated.
00:35:54.400 --> 00:35:54.620
And yeah, so having a 501c3 nonprofit like
00:35:57.160 --> 00:35:57.660
the FSF, as a fiscal sponsor,
00:36:00.060 --> 00:36:00.340
many donors will receive tax benefits that
00:36:02.180 --> 00:36:02.360
they otherwise wouldn't receive if they were
00:36:04.540 --> 00:36:04.680
to like donate to like individuals running a
00:36:07.500 --> 00:36:07.720
project directly. And also donors can know
00:36:08.860 --> 00:36:09.140
that, you know, the funds that they're
00:36:10.920 --> 00:36:11.420
donating are being handled by an accountable
00:36:14.060 --> 00:36:14.540
institution. And also importantly,
00:36:16.020 --> 00:36:16.520
when donating through the FSF,
00:36:19.960 --> 00:36:20.460
Let's see, text changing.
00:36:23.320 --> 00:36:23.560
Okay, yeah. People can donate without having
00:36:24.600 --> 00:36:25.100
to run any non-free JavaScript,
00:36:27.380 --> 00:36:27.880
which is nice. Because unfortunately,
00:36:29.440 --> 00:36:29.540
usually these days on the web when you do
00:36:30.600 --> 00:36:30.880
want to buy something or spend money,
00:36:31.840 --> 00:36:32.340
you have to run non-free JavaScript,
00:36:35.020 --> 00:36:35.220
which isn't the case when donating through
00:36:37.720 --> 00:36:38.160
the FSF. Yeah, so we just joined,
00:36:39.000 --> 00:36:39.500
as I said, on Thursday,
00:36:43.020 --> 00:36:43.220
and we've already received our very first
00:36:45.400 --> 00:36:45.640
donation, so we'd like to extend our thanks
00:36:46.800 --> 00:36:47.300
and gratitude to Scott Ranby,
00:36:49.480 --> 00:36:49.980
who is actually our first ever kind donor.
00:36:51.820 --> 00:36:52.320
They agreed to be thanked publicly.
00:36:55.900 --> 00:36:56.200
So thank you, Scott. And yeah,
00:36:57.040 --> 00:36:57.540
so this is a recent development.
00:36:59.800 --> 00:36:59.980
And we plan to add much more information and
00:37:01.880 --> 00:37:02.020
details about this whole situation to the
00:37:04.200 --> 00:37:04.700
wiki, including links to the announcements,
00:37:06.280 --> 00:37:06.780
some more information about the program,
00:37:08.040 --> 00:37:08.540
and our donation page of course,
00:37:12.880 --> 00:37:13.140
in the new future. And in the meantime I'm
00:37:15.080 --> 00:37:15.240
also happy to help answer any questions as
00:37:17.900 --> 00:37:18.400
best as I can, So feel free to ping me on IRC
00:37:19.640 --> 00:37:20.140
or just email me at bandalia.guinard.org.
00:37:26.140 --> 00:37:26.640
[Speaker 3]: Which gives me a chance to jump in and just
00:37:29.060 --> 00:37:29.560
point out 1 question that we know people have
00:37:32.680 --> 00:37:32.960
is just about how much of the money goes to
00:37:35.660 --> 00:37:35.860
FSF when you make a contribution through the
00:37:36.860 --> 00:37:37.360
fund toward EmacsConf?
00:37:40.560 --> 00:37:40.760
[Speaker 1]: Right, exactly. Yeah, and the answer to that
00:37:44.540 --> 00:37:44.720
is that it's 10%, which is for supporting the
00:37:46.720 --> 00:37:46.960
operation of the Working Together program and
00:37:48.800 --> 00:37:49.300
also the shared GNU infrastructure,
00:37:52.040 --> 00:37:52.540
which we as EmacsConf use and depend on,
00:37:54.920 --> 00:37:55.420
along with several hundred GNU packages.
00:37:59.860 --> 00:38:00.060
So, yeah, and it covers things like
00:38:03.060 --> 00:38:03.480
transaction costs that the FSF's payment
00:38:04.000 --> 00:38:04.500
processor charges?
00:38:10.040 --> 00:38:10.240
[Speaker 3]: And then again I'll come back to say this is
00:38:12.280 --> 00:38:12.780
a real fair price. I have some experience
00:38:15.300 --> 00:38:15.540
with working with payment processing and
00:38:19.120 --> 00:38:19.440
things like this and like 10% that's a that's
00:38:22.440 --> 00:38:22.940
something that you see in Bigger businesses
00:38:25.900 --> 00:38:26.380
that have a model around making money on that
00:38:29.160 --> 00:38:29.280
Transaction so to be able to do that as a
00:38:31.400 --> 00:38:31.760
nonprofit. We're taking advantage of a really
00:38:32.400 --> 00:38:32.900
awesome thing there.
00:38:35.860 --> 00:38:36.060
[Speaker 1]: Yeah, exactly. And yeah,
00:38:36.820 --> 00:38:37.120
just for a quick plug,
00:38:38.860 --> 00:38:39.060
the FSF is actually doing an end of year
00:38:41.780 --> 00:38:42.020
fundraiser right now. So if you want to go
00:38:44.220 --> 00:38:44.700
donate to them, or if you donate to us,
00:38:47.760 --> 00:38:48.260
a part of it will go to the FSF to support
00:38:51.400 --> 00:38:51.900
their work on free software,
00:38:53.000 --> 00:38:53.500
helping grow the movement,
00:38:56.000 --> 00:38:56.120
and spread the word about it.
00:39:02.080 --> 00:39:02.360
So, thank you. And I guess now is a good time
00:39:05.380 --> 00:39:05.800
for me to pass the baton to the next
00:39:08.160 --> 00:39:08.320
organizer who wants to talk about some of the
00:39:11.040 --> 00:39:11.540
specs of the servers that we use right now.
00:39:14.720 --> 00:39:14.860
[Speaker 0]: We actually don't have to go about this in
00:39:16.560 --> 00:39:16.840
detail. I just put it in there in case people
00:39:19.280 --> 00:39:19.540
were curious about how much it takes to run
00:39:20.740 --> 00:39:21.240
something like this. Not a lot.
00:39:22.900 --> 00:39:23.100
It's just really, you know,
00:39:26.100 --> 00:39:26.260
2 days of computing is not that expensive in
00:39:29.060 --> 00:39:29.480
today's world, and all the rest is just
00:39:32.220 --> 00:39:32.640
volunteer time and a heck of a lot of Emacs
00:39:34.080 --> 00:39:34.280
lists as previously discussed in our
00:39:41.020 --> 00:39:41.180
presentation. So, we'll just skip through
00:39:42.280 --> 00:39:42.440
that instead of reading all of it.
00:39:43.580 --> 00:39:43.840
Unless people are specifically curious,
00:39:44.640 --> 00:39:45.140
you can ask questions afterwards.
00:39:46.320 --> 00:39:46.820
But yes, happy birthday,
00:39:49.200 --> 00:39:49.440
EmacsConf, and here's another wonderful 10
00:39:49.440 --> 00:39:49.940
years.
00:39:56.820 --> 00:39:57.040
[Speaker 4]: All right, I think we are at the end of the
00:39:58.820 --> 00:39:59.320
closing remarks. Have I forgotten anything?
00:40:00.060 --> 00:40:00.380
We haven't had Flowy yet,
00:40:03.340 --> 00:40:03.560
I believe. Sorry for putting you on the spot
00:40:03.560 --> 00:40:04.060
again.
00:40:07.940 --> 00:40:08.400
[Speaker 6]: I guess I have nothing really to say besides
00:40:09.280 --> 00:40:09.780
what you have already said.
00:40:12.560 --> 00:40:13.060
So thank everybody to make a presentation,
00:40:15.360 --> 00:40:15.640
to do anything here. Thanks for all of you
00:40:16.880 --> 00:40:17.080
that I could be a part of it.
00:40:17.880 --> 00:40:18.380
I have to admit it also.
00:40:21.020 --> 00:40:21.520
So thank you all. And yeah,
00:40:22.540 --> 00:40:23.040
nothing to say probably.
00:40:25.560 --> 00:40:25.840
[Speaker 1]: And I also want to send the thanks to Flowy
00:40:27.260 --> 00:40:27.380
for, you know, stepping in.
00:40:29.340 --> 00:40:29.480
We kind of like throw this on you like at the
00:40:31.560 --> 00:40:31.720
last second, but Flowy actually stepped in
00:40:33.840 --> 00:40:34.160
and hosted graciously a couple of the talks
00:40:34.920 --> 00:40:35.140
on the Dev track today.
00:40:36.880 --> 00:40:37.200
So, which I think went very well.
00:40:38.480 --> 00:40:38.980
So congrats and thank you.
00:40:39.720 --> 00:40:40.220
[Speaker 6]: Thank you.
00:40:41.420 --> 00:40:41.920
[Speaker 4]: Speaking of which we were not monsters.
00:40:43.420 --> 00:40:43.660
We kindly asked Floey yesterday because
00:40:44.540 --> 00:40:44.760
everything was going so well.
00:40:45.520 --> 00:40:45.600
And now we can say it,
00:40:46.840 --> 00:40:47.240
you know, I can say things are going well.
00:40:48.760 --> 00:40:48.880
Usually it's a bad thing when you're doing a
00:40:50.500 --> 00:40:50.740
broadcast to say things are going well right
00:40:53.080 --> 00:40:53.300
now because it tends to backfires at some
00:40:56.980 --> 00:40:57.480
[Speaker 3]: Hours of notice, hours of notice.
00:40:58.900 --> 00:40:59.400
That, that's planning.
00:41:02.420 --> 00:41:02.920
[Speaker 4]: point. But yesterday- So hours of notice,
00:41:04.840 --> 00:41:05.340
Flowy didn't sleep all that much because we
00:41:06.500 --> 00:41:06.980
tasked him with hosting,
00:41:08.440 --> 00:41:08.720
so he was turning in his bed all night
00:41:09.960 --> 00:41:10.460
thinking, oh, I'm going to host MaxCons.
00:41:13.660 --> 00:41:13.860
But Flowy, you did a wonderful job and I am
00:41:15.720 --> 00:41:15.940
so glad that not only you were able to join
00:41:17.760 --> 00:41:17.900
us again this year, but that also you were
00:41:19.760 --> 00:41:20.140
able to host. Because last year,
00:41:20.900 --> 00:41:21.140
had we asked you to host,
00:41:21.820 --> 00:41:22.320
you would have said no.
00:41:25.120 --> 00:41:25.580
First time we asked you this year was yes,
00:41:27.100 --> 00:41:27.600
but give me some time to think about it.
00:41:30.100 --> 00:41:30.600
[Speaker 6]: Next year it is yes completely.
00:41:32.780 --> 00:41:32.940
[Speaker 4]: If we've done a good job,
00:41:33.560 --> 00:41:34.060
it will be yes directly.
00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:38.080
All right, so since we are at the end of the
00:41:41.140 --> 00:41:41.320
thankings and I did say europe team needs to
00:41:43.580 --> 00:41:43.700
go to bed in about 12 minutes that leaves us
00:41:45.940 --> 00:41:46.440
about 12 minutes to try to answer as many
00:41:47.840 --> 00:41:48.340
points as you'd like to raise.
00:41:50.640 --> 00:41:50.940
Sasha, I think the Q&A room is still open
00:41:52.680 --> 00:41:53.100
because we are technically still in the Emacs
00:41:53.560 --> 00:41:54.020
conference room currently.
00:41:56.480 --> 00:41:56.660
So, if you... We're going to put the link
00:41:57.840 --> 00:41:58.000
again if you need to find it.
00:41:59.800 --> 00:42:00.300
Otherwise, scroll up and find the 1 on there.
00:42:04.400 --> 00:42:04.900
[Speaker 0]: I think I can change the redirect.
00:42:07.240 --> 00:42:07.740
Maybe. I will go figure this out.
00:42:08.600 --> 00:42:09.100
Keep talking in the background.
00:42:12.160 --> 00:42:12.280
[Speaker 4]: Right. So, whilst we figure this out in the
00:42:13.740 --> 00:42:13.860
background, it would be nice if you could
00:42:14.640 --> 00:42:15.040
join us and ask questions,
00:42:15.900 --> 00:42:16.020
either by dropping them.
00:42:18.080 --> 00:42:18.340
I see plenty of people have already left some
00:42:19.440 --> 00:42:19.840
comments. We have 2 places,
00:42:21.820 --> 00:42:22.240
right now it's more about a chitchatting
00:42:23.000 --> 00:42:23.360
about the end of the conference.
00:42:24.160 --> 00:42:24.660
If you've got general feedback,
00:42:26.160 --> 00:42:26.400
we've mentioned it at the top,
00:42:28.580 --> 00:42:28.780
but if you want to write your general
00:42:30.920 --> 00:42:31.080
feedback here, it will find its way at some
00:42:32.960 --> 00:42:33.160
point in the years of the relevant people who
00:42:33.920 --> 00:42:34.280
can make things change.
00:42:35.920 --> 00:42:36.040
So don't worry too much about where you put
00:42:37.120 --> 00:42:37.540
your feedback, it'll be fine.
00:42:40.240 --> 00:42:40.440
But now, how about we start reading some of
00:42:42.700 --> 00:42:43.080
the notes that people have said or questions
00:42:43.080 --> 00:42:43.260
that
00:42:47.094 --> 00:42:47.151
[Speaker 3]: have been asked. So here's 1 for Amin.
00:42:48.460 --> 00:42:48.820
Do you have any stats on how many people
00:42:52.200 --> 00:42:52.700
watched for an IRC and BBB over the 2 days?
00:42:58.140 --> 00:42:58.620
[Speaker 1]: Right, yeah, so I guess for IceCast,
00:43:00.040 --> 00:43:00.540
which I can answer more readily,
00:43:03.760 --> 00:43:04.260
I think yesterday we were averaging around
00:43:08.120 --> 00:43:08.620
240, 250 concurrent viewers at a time.
00:43:12.760 --> 00:43:13.260
And today, so today it varied.
00:43:16.300 --> 00:43:16.740
I think the maximum was again like around 200
00:43:19.600 --> 00:43:19.820
to 20-ish with the average being more around
00:43:24.960 --> 00:43:25.460
180, 190 viewers. We've had a lot of hits to
00:43:28.700 --> 00:43:29.180
the actual web pages for the Emacs Conf Wiki
00:43:31.720 --> 00:43:31.960
or the pad, which are all being served on 1
00:43:34.740 --> 00:43:35.140
server. I pulled some numbers.
00:43:36.140 --> 00:43:36.640
I'm not sure if they're correct.
00:43:38.480 --> 00:43:38.900
So I'm like a little bit hesitant to discuss
00:43:41.760 --> 00:43:41.980
them. Safe to say they're easily in the tens
00:43:44.380 --> 00:43:44.580
of thousands, maybe in the hundreds of
00:43:47.960 --> 00:43:48.420
thousands of total visits over the past,
00:43:52.540 --> 00:43:53.040
[Speaker 0]: Maybe the pad makes a lot of small requests.
00:43:53.940 --> 00:43:54.400
[Speaker 1]: I guess, 48 hours. Right,
00:43:57.040 --> 00:43:57.200
okay. So, yeah, that's why I'm hesitant to
00:43:59.240 --> 00:43:59.380
say. But yeah, easily in the thousands or
00:44:01.860 --> 00:44:02.020
[Speaker 3]: You know
00:44:02.980 --> 00:44:03.260
[Speaker 4]: who you are anyway, the crowd,
00:44:04.080 --> 00:44:04.240
you know how many you are,
00:44:05.340 --> 00:44:05.840
you do not need exact numbers
00:44:08.720 --> 00:44:09.220
[Speaker 1]: tens of thousands. Yeah,
00:44:11.000 --> 00:44:11.200
so I don't have the exact numbers but I guess
00:44:13.260 --> 00:44:13.460
it's always kind of fun to maybe try to pull
00:44:15.700 --> 00:44:15.840
some numbers and look at it that way but you
00:44:18.080 --> 00:44:18.580
know of course we all know that what we do,
00:44:19.720 --> 00:44:20.220
every single person counts.
00:44:24.320 --> 00:44:24.660
So I don't know, trying to look at turning
00:44:27.900 --> 00:44:28.400
people into abstract numbers isn't,
00:44:30.480 --> 00:44:30.820
I don't know, inspiring to me very much,
00:44:31.840 --> 00:44:32.340
but it's cool. So.
00:44:36.020 --> 00:44:36.140
[Speaker 4]: All right. So how about we go into the
00:44:37.640 --> 00:44:38.140
questions. So Sasha is now in the viewport
00:44:39.480 --> 00:44:39.780
where we can see some questions.
00:44:41.200 --> 00:44:41.700
So how about we take some of them.
00:44:43.900 --> 00:44:44.060
I can read them or if anyone of the
00:44:45.020 --> 00:44:45.520
organizers wants to do this,
00:44:46.720 --> 00:44:47.040
feel free, especially those who haven't
00:44:48.040 --> 00:44:48.540
talked to a whole lot this year.
00:44:53.000 --> 00:44:53.480
Cohen, do you want to try it?
00:44:54.760 --> 00:44:55.260
[Speaker 3]: I didn't make my motive clear.
00:44:59.220 --> 00:44:59.500
I did and I'm done. I took the first
00:45:01.120 --> 00:45:01.320
question, I picked the bottom question off
00:45:02.920 --> 00:45:03.120
the list because I knew exactly who it was
00:45:05.140 --> 00:45:05.500
going for. The person who wants to answer or
00:45:07.080 --> 00:45:07.580
direct the next question is welcome.
00:45:10.520 --> 00:45:10.760
Sorry, I could have given a little better
00:45:11.400 --> 00:45:11.680
stage direction there.
00:45:13.660 --> 00:45:14.160
I'm not prepared to answer how many emaxers
00:45:16.080 --> 00:45:16.560
are from Nordic countries other than to say
00:45:17.680 --> 00:45:18.180
definitely yes and several.
00:45:21.900 --> 00:45:22.080
And I haven't looked close enough at the
00:45:22.580 --> 00:45:23.080
suggestion yet.
00:45:27.280 --> 00:45:27.720
[Speaker 4]: Right, okay. I can take the question about
00:45:30.020 --> 00:45:30.060
the BBB limitations. So it's the second 1,
00:45:31.560 --> 00:45:32.060
the red 1. Small suggestion,
00:45:33.120 --> 00:45:33.520
likely out of your control,
00:45:36.340 --> 00:45:36.660
but anyway, the blue button seems to work
00:45:38.300 --> 00:45:38.560
very well, but it would be a bit more
00:45:40.680 --> 00:45:40.840
watchable if the webcam frames were lined up
00:45:42.660 --> 00:45:42.920
vertically on 1 side, because it would allow
00:45:44.760 --> 00:45:44.920
the screen share frames to be larger and
00:45:47.080 --> 00:45:47.560
would make much better use of the viewable
00:45:49.740 --> 00:45:50.240
space. Maybe worth a bug report to upstream.
00:45:53.080 --> 00:45:53.420
And I agree, BBB has been really good.
00:45:54.400 --> 00:45:54.900
Amine, did you want to say something?
00:45:55.120 --> 00:45:55.240
[Speaker 3]: I'm going
00:45:56.760 --> 00:45:56.880
[Speaker 1]: to continue and then I'll add something at
00:45:56.960 --> 00:45:57.460
the end.
00:45:59.960 --> 00:46:00.100
[Speaker 4]: Okay, sure. So BBB has been really good for
00:46:04.440 --> 00:46:04.940
us. It allows us to have many parallel rooms
00:46:07.700 --> 00:46:07.800
which are all recording service side at the
00:46:09.920 --> 00:46:10.120
same time. And it's wonderful for us because
00:46:11.260 --> 00:46:11.580
we can gather. At some point,
00:46:13.520 --> 00:46:13.820
I think last year, we had 4 concurrent talks
00:46:15.220 --> 00:46:15.360
being recorded because people were just so
00:46:17.040 --> 00:46:17.540
interested in what was going on in rooms.
00:46:19.040 --> 00:46:19.540
And you know, we only,
00:46:21.660 --> 00:46:22.160
like this year, the co-organizers,
00:46:23.720 --> 00:46:23.940
it's the 5 people you see in a room
00:46:26.760 --> 00:46:26.880
currently. And if we had all of us to be in a
00:46:28.440 --> 00:46:28.580
separate room, having to record on the
00:46:29.340 --> 00:46:29.640
machine, it wouldn't work.
00:46:32.120 --> 00:46:32.280
So we are able to demultiply the amount of
00:46:33.560 --> 00:46:34.060
content that we produce thanks to BBB,
00:46:37.540 --> 00:46:37.700
but sadly, we are also quite limited by the
00:46:39.560 --> 00:46:39.720
interface of BBB. Another problem that is
00:46:43.860 --> 00:46:44.360
dear to me is that audio tends to be fairly
00:46:46.240 --> 00:46:46.740
bad at some points depending on the speakers
00:46:50.080 --> 00:46:50.580
because BBB has really funky audio correction
00:46:51.500 --> 00:46:51.820
stuff going in the background,
00:46:52.540 --> 00:46:52.900
and sometimes it works,
00:46:53.760 --> 00:46:54.260
sometimes it doesn't work,
00:46:55.480 --> 00:46:55.980
and especially on my machine,
00:46:58.320 --> 00:46:58.480
the specs are above in the document if you're
00:47:02.040 --> 00:47:02.220
interested, but BBB and OBS do not play well
00:47:04.640 --> 00:47:04.820
at all. You might have heard me speaking with
00:47:06.120 --> 00:47:06.500
some clicks in my voice at some point.
00:47:07.600 --> 00:47:08.100
That's another problem of BBB.
00:47:09.240 --> 00:47:09.520
Anyway, I mean, you wanted to add something
00:47:09.720 --> 00:47:10.220
as well.
00:47:14.060 --> 00:47:14.340
[Speaker 1]: Right, yeah, I kind of empathize and also
00:47:17.220 --> 00:47:17.640
emphasize the problems with audio on BBB
00:47:19.860 --> 00:47:20.360
sometimes, but about the specific suggestion
00:47:22.540 --> 00:47:22.760
here of like lighting things up at least
00:47:24.780 --> 00:47:24.960
visually, I think that's like much more
00:47:26.940 --> 00:47:27.440
doable even if you don't open a bug upstream.
00:47:30.140 --> 00:47:30.520
I believe the Free Software Foundation for
00:47:31.360 --> 00:47:31.860
their LibrePlanet conference,
00:47:33.740 --> 00:47:34.200
either last year or the year before,
00:47:36.500 --> 00:47:36.760
they had some custom, like clients signed
00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:38.500
into browser, custom CSS,
00:47:40.520 --> 00:47:40.720
where it would do exactly something like
00:47:44.440 --> 00:47:44.820
that. It would like enlarge the shared screen
00:47:46.840 --> 00:47:47.000
on the 1 side and then stack up all of the
00:47:48.000 --> 00:47:48.280
webcam feeds on 1 side.
00:47:50.280 --> 00:47:50.440
So we might be able to use something like
00:47:50.440 --> 00:47:50.940
that.
00:47:53.040 --> 00:47:53.540
[Speaker 3]: So I'll tack on to that.
00:47:56.760 --> 00:47:56.880
And now I feel like a heel as soon as I
00:47:59.340 --> 00:47:59.500
opened my mouth, because I think I almost get
00:48:01.480 --> 00:48:01.720
the sense Floyd wants to jump in here and
00:48:03.680 --> 00:48:03.840
we're all talking, everyone except Sasha who
00:48:06.420 --> 00:48:06.660
actually wrote OBS, you know,
00:48:10.680 --> 00:48:10.920
the OBS WebSocket plugin that is probably the
00:48:12.100 --> 00:48:12.600
answer to all the different questions
00:48:13.360 --> 00:48:13.480
everyone is bringing up.
00:48:15.060 --> 00:48:15.420
So I guess I'll leave my input at that And
00:48:16.680 --> 00:48:16.800
Chloe, did you have anything to say,
00:48:17.720 --> 00:48:18.220
or can we pick on Sasha?
00:48:20.460 --> 00:48:20.960
[Speaker 6]: Nothing to say.
00:48:25.120 --> 00:48:25.320
[Speaker 0]: I need to update the OBS WebSocket plugin for
00:48:27.260 --> 00:48:27.440
the protocol change, because I think the
00:48:29.040 --> 00:48:29.540
protocol change was from 4 to 5.
00:48:32.080 --> 00:48:32.300
It's 1 of those things that I haven't gotten
00:48:35.280 --> 00:48:35.580
[Speaker 1]: Cool. But
00:48:37.120 --> 00:48:37.280
[Speaker 0]: around to. yeah, so we'll try to solve it in
00:48:41.240 --> 00:48:41.380
CSS. So if I can tinker with the CSS or if
00:48:44.160 --> 00:48:44.380
somebody else would like to volunteer to move
00:48:45.720 --> 00:48:46.220
things around, then that would be fantastic
00:48:48.040 --> 00:48:48.540
because front-end should be things.
00:48:53.480 --> 00:48:53.600
Okay, oh, what order of magnitude hours do
00:48:55.360 --> 00:48:55.520
you each of you think you devote to the
00:48:58.260 --> 00:48:58.580
conference yearly? I have I expected someone
00:48:59.540 --> 00:49:00.040
would ask this question.
00:49:07.840 --> 00:49:08.120
So I have I have my the past 11 years of time
00:49:11.000 --> 00:49:11.400
analysis. This is my Emacs category,
00:49:12.780 --> 00:49:13.280
so it also includes Emacs news.
00:49:15.660 --> 00:49:16.160
So this is my Emacs hours by month and year.
00:49:17.920 --> 00:49:18.420
So you can see last year,
00:49:21.140 --> 00:49:21.640
it spiked up a lot. But this year,
00:49:23.100 --> 00:49:23.440
it has taken less time.
00:49:26.260 --> 00:49:26.760
So last month, it was about 93 hours.
00:49:29.020 --> 00:49:29.520
And the month before that was just about 87
00:49:31.400 --> 00:49:31.880
hours of prep. And this actually includes
00:49:33.240 --> 00:49:33.740
things like captioning and,
00:49:36.260 --> 00:49:36.340
and coordination. And then you can see a
00:49:38.560 --> 00:49:38.940
little bit of time here like the EMAX news
00:49:42.040 --> 00:49:42.440
and and harvesting q&a and adding chapter
00:49:43.780 --> 00:49:44.280
index indices and things like that.
00:49:47.960 --> 00:49:48.460
So I, I like it, it's it's my form of fun.
00:49:50.540 --> 00:49:50.640
And Otherwise, I'm mostly just,
00:49:52.960 --> 00:49:53.460
you know, helping the kiddo go to play dates
00:49:54.320 --> 00:49:54.820
and carrying things around.
00:49:57.280 --> 00:49:57.500
And, you know, so this is the stuff that I do
00:49:58.260 --> 00:49:58.760
to keep my brain happy.
00:50:00.060 --> 00:50:00.320
And if you're wondering,
00:50:01.360 --> 00:50:01.860
okay, well, do you sleep?
00:50:03.520 --> 00:50:03.820
That's the next question I expected people
00:50:04.840 --> 00:50:05.060
ask. The answer is yes,
00:50:06.420 --> 00:50:06.660
we still actually do manage to sleep,
00:50:09.640 --> 00:50:09.800
or at least I do. Less so now that I have a
00:50:10.760 --> 00:50:11.260
kid, this is like 2016,
00:50:13.100 --> 00:50:13.260
had a kiddo, and then suddenly much less
00:50:14.640 --> 00:50:14.800
sleep, but still a reasonable amount of
00:50:16.780 --> 00:50:17.280
sleep. So Emacs stuff happens,
00:50:19.600 --> 00:50:20.100
I can still sleep, and it's a lot of fun.
00:50:23.260 --> 00:50:23.760
[Speaker 4]: Now that's data for you folks.
00:50:26.960 --> 00:50:27.460
[Speaker 1]: Yeah, we can't top that at all.
00:50:30.420 --> 00:50:30.820
[Speaker 0]: It's a blog post also,
00:50:30.820 --> 00:50:31.320
yeah.
00:50:33.160 --> 00:50:33.340
[Speaker 4]: Especially, you start like this,
00:50:36.540 --> 00:50:37.040
how do you expect all of us to say anything
00:50:38.680 --> 00:50:38.740
after this? Whatever we say is not going to
00:50:40.560 --> 00:50:40.680
be backed up by data, it's not going to be as
00:50:42.360 --> 00:50:42.520
many hours, and it's not going to be as
00:50:43.180 --> 00:50:43.680
qualitative in general.
00:50:53.640 --> 00:50:53.900
I can remark on something because for me it's
00:50:56.040 --> 00:50:56.540
my fourth year helping to organize EmacsConf
00:50:59.280 --> 00:50:59.780
and there's a definite change this year.
00:51:02.480 --> 00:51:02.980
I did spend, usually I get into EmacsConf
00:51:05.640 --> 00:51:06.040
mode in late September when I start worrying
00:51:07.900 --> 00:51:08.080
about the CFP, the call for proposal is
00:51:09.720 --> 00:51:10.080
finishing, and then we need to start running
00:51:12.580 --> 00:51:12.780
after speakers to secure the proposals to
00:51:13.860 --> 00:51:14.360
make sure, oh, can you do this?
00:51:16.500 --> 00:51:16.680
Can you do maybe a 10-minute format instead
00:51:17.400 --> 00:51:17.560
of a 20-minute format,
00:51:18.760 --> 00:51:19.260
you know, all this jazzy stuff.
00:51:21.820 --> 00:51:22.020
And usually it kind of looks like Sasha for
00:51:22.940 --> 00:51:23.400
me in terms of involvement,
00:51:24.900 --> 00:51:25.400
or at least it did for the previous year.
00:51:28.920 --> 00:51:29.300
But this year, now that I've been gainfully
00:51:30.220 --> 00:51:30.720
employed as a software developer,
00:51:33.760 --> 00:51:33.900
I found it much harder to find the time to
00:51:36.500 --> 00:51:36.660
invest into MaxComp. But 1 of the things that
00:51:39.520 --> 00:51:39.800
allowed me to still stay efficient at my day
00:51:42.100 --> 00:51:42.260
job is the fact that I knew that Sasha and
00:51:43.680 --> 00:51:44.180
all the work that we did in previous years
00:51:46.240 --> 00:51:46.560
would come to help us organize this year's
00:51:48.160 --> 00:51:48.560
conference. And I'm not kidding,
00:51:49.900 --> 00:51:50.140
this year, I've been keeping an eye,
00:51:51.300 --> 00:51:51.480
obviously, and we've been chatting with all
00:51:53.860 --> 00:51:54.340
the organizers, but it's mostly been Sasha
00:51:56.880 --> 00:51:57.080
holding the fort from the end of the CFP in
00:52:00.060 --> 00:52:00.560
September to right about end of November.
00:52:02.220 --> 00:52:02.720
So I'll use the opportunity,
00:52:04.780 --> 00:52:05.160
as well my fellow co-organizers will,
00:52:07.300 --> 00:52:07.480
to thank you Sasha for putting so much time
00:52:09.720 --> 00:52:09.900
and energy into this. Not only Sasha from
00:52:11.680 --> 00:52:11.920
this year, but also Sasha from last year,
00:52:12.840 --> 00:52:13.340
and last year, and last year.
00:52:19.920 --> 00:52:20.160
And I will not be able to give you a figure
00:52:20.840 --> 00:52:21.000
of how much time it takes.
00:52:22.920 --> 00:52:23.220
I can tell you that the 2 days of Emacs Con
00:52:28.180 --> 00:52:28.380
are a bloody marathon because we cannot share
00:52:31.060 --> 00:52:31.220
our screens with you, but Sasha has given you
00:52:32.220 --> 00:52:32.580
a little bit of pointers about,
00:52:34.080 --> 00:52:34.580
you know, how much stuff we need to monitor.
00:52:36.560 --> 00:52:36.820
Sasha just switches constantly between
00:52:38.860 --> 00:52:39.320
workspaces. I just put everything on 1
00:52:41.400 --> 00:52:41.900
workspace and my screen looks absolutely
00:52:44.480 --> 00:52:44.920
mental. And then I wonder why my microphone
00:52:46.020 --> 00:52:46.520
is clipping on BVB, I suppose.
00:52:47.400 --> 00:52:47.540
All right, that's all for me.
00:52:48.900 --> 00:52:49.040
Anyone wants to say anything about how much
00:52:49.920 --> 00:52:50.420
time it takes? Sasha, please.
00:52:52.800 --> 00:52:53.000
[Speaker 0]: I have a nice setup this year because I
00:52:55.840 --> 00:52:55.960
actually have a Matthew Lent donated a
00:52:57.440 --> 00:52:57.660
computer to me that can handle the big
00:53:00.240 --> 00:53:00.420
monitor and I'm stealing my husband's big
00:53:01.100 --> 00:53:01.280
monitor over there. See,
00:53:02.240 --> 00:53:02.740
So this is my setup today.
00:53:05.600 --> 00:53:06.020
It's got like conference stuff on my laptop
00:53:08.800 --> 00:53:09.240
and then just IOC on the other big screen and
00:53:10.640 --> 00:53:11.000
the 480p so I can see,
00:53:12.340 --> 00:53:12.840
I can make sure it doesn't fall down.
00:53:14.900 --> 00:53:15.400
Yes, so I have a nice setup today.
00:53:22.260 --> 00:53:22.400
[Speaker 4]: Anyone wants to comment about how much time
00:53:24.160 --> 00:53:24.360
it takes for them to organize the MaxCon for
00:53:25.440 --> 00:53:25.940
2, you know, including everything,
00:53:26.580 --> 00:53:27.080
be it the brainstorming,
00:53:28.940 --> 00:53:29.440
the answering volunteers and stuff like this?
00:53:31.320 --> 00:53:31.640
Or we can move to another question,
00:53:31.800 --> 00:53:32.300
of course.
00:53:34.600 --> 00:53:34.960
[Speaker 1]: I mean, I know for myself,
00:53:36.180 --> 00:53:36.580
I kind of dropped the ball this year,
00:53:38.940 --> 00:53:39.440
somewhat unintentionally or unintentionally.
00:53:41.640 --> 00:53:42.040
Well, yeah, I didn't have any other choice,
00:53:44.280 --> 00:53:44.780
basically, at least in like September through
00:53:46.940 --> 00:53:47.440
like early November or mid November.
00:53:51.100 --> 00:53:51.500
But I think like, it sort of differs,
00:53:52.480 --> 00:53:52.820
I guess, from year to year.
00:53:53.520 --> 00:53:54.020
Sometimes life happens,
00:53:57.900 --> 00:53:58.400
and no matter how much you would love to put
00:53:59.540 --> 00:53:59.880
a ton of time into something,
00:54:01.620 --> 00:54:01.820
you just can't. And maybe next year you can
00:54:04.340 --> 00:54:04.540
do a lot more. So I'm optimistic I'll be able
00:54:07.080 --> 00:54:07.260
to put in much more time into things for
00:54:09.580 --> 00:54:10.080
EmacsConf next year, but that's just me.
00:54:12.360 --> 00:54:12.560
[Speaker 4]: I just want to say something before Robin
00:54:13.900 --> 00:54:14.400
drops in. Sasha, go please first.
00:54:18.800 --> 00:54:19.120
[Speaker 0]: And I think people shouldn't like feel bad
00:54:20.280 --> 00:54:20.780
about having those. I think designing
00:54:24.120 --> 00:54:24.280
conference systems or processes so that they
00:54:26.800 --> 00:54:27.300
can take advantage of little pockets of time
00:54:30.460 --> 00:54:30.680
is the way to go. I love the fact that we now
00:54:33.200 --> 00:54:33.360
have a system where hosts can show up on the
00:54:35.280 --> 00:54:35.680
day of and just rock it,
00:54:36.880 --> 00:54:37.380
right? So this is great.
00:54:41.580 --> 00:54:42.080
It is good that we can get by with less time
00:54:43.940 --> 00:54:44.120
throughout the process and just take
00:54:45.660 --> 00:54:46.160
advantage of whatever time people have.
00:54:46.960 --> 00:54:47.180
Whether it's, you know,
00:54:49.120 --> 00:54:49.280
they've got 2 hours, they want to caption a
00:54:51.560 --> 00:54:52.040
talk, that sort of stuff is already totally
00:54:52.040 --> 00:54:52.540
awesome.
00:54:57.480 --> 00:54:57.980
[Speaker 3]: And yeah, you both, thank you.
00:55:00.820 --> 00:55:01.020
Yeah, you both stole my Thunder and then put
00:55:03.880 --> 00:55:04.120
a quarterback in me. I couldn't agree more
00:55:04.920 --> 00:55:05.280
with everything you said.
00:55:09.020 --> 00:55:09.220
That's something that just typifies what is
00:55:10.360 --> 00:55:10.860
amazing about this conference,
00:55:12.340 --> 00:55:12.840
right? It's a kind of accessibility,
00:55:17.120 --> 00:55:17.500
isn't it? Having some work I can give you
00:55:19.380 --> 00:55:19.880
that helps you give back to your community
00:55:21.340 --> 00:55:21.840
that is at your level,
00:55:23.300 --> 00:55:23.800
that fits your time budget,
00:55:26.960 --> 00:55:27.120
that is something that you're willing to go
00:55:28.280 --> 00:55:28.780
care about because it intersects,
00:55:31.400 --> 00:55:31.780
you know, the world you live in in some
00:55:34.240 --> 00:55:34.540
practical way and therefore you can make time
00:55:37.360 --> 00:55:37.860
for it. We all live in a lot of different
00:55:40.520 --> 00:55:40.600
trenches and making them intersect is 1 of
00:55:42.500 --> 00:55:43.000
the things Emacs does in a technical way
00:55:43.820 --> 00:55:44.020
[Speaker 5]: and
00:55:47.260 --> 00:55:47.580
[Speaker 3]: through this conference at least in a very
00:55:51.100 --> 00:55:51.340
community way. Okay, and it brings me back
00:55:52.360 --> 00:55:52.680
also on the OBS front.
00:55:54.080 --> 00:55:54.240
And I think that's what really excited me
00:55:56.260 --> 00:55:56.580
too. When I think about the potential that's
00:55:59.440 --> 00:55:59.940
out there and getting a bunch of people
00:56:01.960 --> 00:56:02.080
looking at the work you've already done with
00:56:03.960 --> 00:56:04.440
OBS WebSocket and thinking about,
00:56:06.660 --> 00:56:06.960
you know, oh, we want more timers that count
00:56:09.280 --> 00:56:09.340
things down and we want each organizer to be
00:56:10.680 --> 00:56:11.040
able to have a little palette of them,
00:56:12.780 --> 00:56:12.940
some of which are gonna be handed to you by
00:56:14.620 --> 00:56:14.760
the conference director and some of which you
00:56:16.800 --> 00:56:17.240
can add yourself because they help you and
00:56:19.600 --> 00:56:20.020
that's right. And, you know,
00:56:21.780 --> 00:56:22.120
have, you know, keeping things really fast
00:56:24.120 --> 00:56:24.620
and loose so we can make the artistic
00:56:26.880 --> 00:56:27.340
decisions on the fly that make our conference
00:56:30.340 --> 00:56:30.840
what it is, but then making,
00:56:33.480 --> 00:56:33.740
you know, a simple automated tool chain that
00:56:36.380 --> 00:56:36.560
anyone can learn and that we know how to
00:56:37.700 --> 00:56:38.200
execute the steps of manually.
00:56:41.000 --> 00:56:41.280
That's the actual design pattern that you've
00:56:42.980 --> 00:56:43.480
implemented here that's working so well.
00:56:47.460 --> 00:56:47.580
So the
00:56:50.080 --> 00:56:50.540
[Speaker 4]: 1 thing I wanted to ask about Amin saying,
00:56:51.600 --> 00:56:52.100
oh, I've dropped the ball this year.
00:56:53.600 --> 00:56:53.940
Amin's, just to be clear with everyone,
00:56:55.380 --> 00:56:55.520
Amin's definition of dropping the ball is
00:56:56.940 --> 00:56:57.360
securing a sponsorship with the FSF.
00:56:58.680 --> 00:56:59.180
So that's dropping the ball for you.
00:57:02.320 --> 00:57:02.720
[Speaker 3]: Well attending a weekly meeting,
00:57:04.480 --> 00:57:04.640
We take 1 week off a month where we
00:57:08.400 --> 00:57:08.720
coordinate infrastructure issues between this
00:57:13.200 --> 00:57:13.440
and other FSF supported projects using quote
00:57:14.320 --> 00:57:14.820
unquote GNU infrastructure.
00:57:16.860 --> 00:57:17.360
That's kind of a, GNU is really an umbrella
00:57:19.220 --> 00:57:19.720
term once you get kind of close to it.
00:57:22.220 --> 00:57:22.400
You know, it's like GNU is all of the
00:57:25.020 --> 00:57:25.240
volunteers helping with this vision we have
00:57:25.840 --> 00:57:26.340
of user rights.
00:57:31.380 --> 00:57:31.560
[Speaker 4]: 1 last thing I wanted to add about how much
00:57:32.220 --> 00:57:32.480
time we spend on this.
00:57:33.900 --> 00:57:34.400
It's just the fact that we've experimented
00:57:36.180 --> 00:57:36.380
over the 4 years I've been part of this.
00:57:38.480 --> 00:57:38.760
You know, the first year we had so many
00:57:40.720 --> 00:57:40.840
meetings because we thought this would be the
00:57:42.640 --> 00:57:42.800
way to know 1 another and this would be the
00:57:44.280 --> 00:57:44.780
way to create qualitative notes.
00:57:46.520 --> 00:57:46.560
And we've come back to this.
00:57:48.180 --> 00:57:48.340
[Speaker 3]: That is what I saw. I can't help but
00:57:49.940 --> 00:57:50.440
interrupt you again. This is all I do.
00:57:52.080 --> 00:57:52.580
Leo This is why I keep off the microphone
00:57:54.060 --> 00:57:54.440
until the last 20 minutes of the conference
00:57:56.580 --> 00:57:56.760
once everybody already wants to hang up Then
00:57:58.940 --> 00:57:59.080
I know you'll be honest with me But I have to
00:58:01.880 --> 00:58:02.240
say when I looked at that table of data all I
00:58:05.280 --> 00:58:05.440
saw was 200 hours of Sasha's life that she
00:58:06.940 --> 00:58:07.240
spent talking to the, you know,
00:58:08.360 --> 00:58:08.680
all many of us were involved.
00:58:10.960 --> 00:58:11.320
It's not just the 4 or 5 of us that,
00:58:13.160 --> 00:58:13.460
you know, that have done this last 2 years
00:58:14.440 --> 00:58:14.940
convention, right? It's,
00:58:17.120 --> 00:58:17.260
you know, there's been many people that have
00:58:19.340 --> 00:58:19.780
come in, shared wise thoughts,
00:58:22.120 --> 00:58:22.420
helping us form the, I don't know,
00:58:24.400 --> 00:58:24.620
ethos or all of the things that we're
00:58:26.680 --> 00:58:27.180
carrying forward into 2024.
00:58:31.460 --> 00:58:31.960
Sorry, Leo.
00:58:32.640 --> 00:58:32.880
[Speaker 1]: No, no,
00:58:33.560 --> 00:58:33.940
[Speaker 4]: you're fine, You're fine.
00:58:35.980 --> 00:58:36.060
I mean, you pretty much continued with what I
00:58:37.500 --> 00:58:38.000
was going to talk about.
00:58:41.040 --> 00:58:41.540
So I'm looking at the time and I've already
00:58:44.640 --> 00:58:44.700
extended by 5 minutes the amount of time I
00:58:46.640 --> 00:58:46.800
was supposed to stay and Flowy is looking at
00:58:50.320 --> 00:58:50.660
me with very teary eyes because he's thinking
00:58:51.900 --> 00:58:52.280
about the meeting he's going to have at 9am
00:58:53.440 --> 00:58:53.940
tomorrow, as will I by the way.
00:58:54.720 --> 00:58:54.920
Yeah, don't you have to
00:58:56.380 --> 00:58:56.760
[Speaker 3]: be commuting like right now Flowy?
00:58:58.200 --> 00:58:58.700
I mean aren't you supposed to be...
00:59:01.560 --> 00:59:01.840
I hope you get to sleep before work.
00:59:04.820 --> 00:59:04.960
Thank you so much for your awesome work this
00:59:04.960 --> 00:59:05.460
year.
00:59:07.360 --> 00:59:07.680
[Speaker 6]: I mean, I didn't do so much at the Emojis
00:59:09.100 --> 00:59:09.600
Conference, so I'm just here like from
00:59:13.180 --> 00:59:13.320
Friday. At first, I was looking at the
00:59:14.760 --> 00:59:15.060
website, which talks we're having,
00:59:17.860 --> 00:59:18.040
So it's all fine. So maybe next year or the
00:59:19.740 --> 00:59:19.960
coming year, I can do a little bit more
00:59:19.960 --> 00:59:20.460
privacy.
00:59:23.260 --> 00:59:23.760
[Speaker 4]: A little more, like again,
00:59:25.920 --> 00:59:26.420
like with Amin, Flowy's definition of doing,
00:59:30.240 --> 00:59:30.400
not having done much is hosting 1 of many of
00:59:34.120 --> 00:59:34.240
the Dev talks. So you could be kind of
00:59:35.680 --> 00:59:36.140
worried about it. All right,
00:59:38.480 --> 00:59:38.720
folks, considering the question that we have
00:59:40.440 --> 00:59:40.640
right now, we still see people adding
00:59:42.260 --> 00:59:42.620
questions, but I think we are all pretty
00:59:44.960 --> 00:59:45.060
tired and we need to get on with the rest of
00:59:46.280 --> 00:59:46.780
our weekends or nights.
00:59:49.740 --> 00:59:50.080
So do I go into parting words now everyone?
00:59:50.720 --> 00:59:51.220
Are we okay with this?
00:59:55.280 --> 00:59:55.680
I'll take this for a yes.
00:59:56.780 --> 00:59:57.280
I'll ask Sasha, yeah?
01:00:00.780 --> 01:00:01.080
[Speaker 0]: Oh I think I basically have until the kiddo
01:00:03.560 --> 01:00:03.760
yells at me to come for dinner so I can hang
01:00:04.440 --> 01:00:04.940
out with people after.
01:00:09.240 --> 01:00:09.740
and do the wrapping up.
01:00:09.920 --> 01:00:10.080
[Speaker 3]: But I
01:00:10.080 --> 01:00:10.440
[Speaker 4]: All right, splendid. Go ahead know,
01:00:12.100 --> 01:00:12.600
right, I'll do the wrapping up for the
01:00:13.860 --> 01:00:14.040
perhaps the stream. We might leave it up
01:00:16.360 --> 01:00:16.700
because there's no impetus for us to close
01:00:20.100 --> 01:00:20.280
it. But at least to officially close while
01:00:22.340 --> 01:00:22.840
we're still there, EmacsConf 2023,
01:00:25.480 --> 01:00:25.900
I will have again to thank everyone,
01:00:28.200 --> 01:00:28.700
all the speakers, all my co-organizers for
01:00:31.020 --> 01:00:31.160
making this possible. You've seen all the
01:00:32.120 --> 01:00:32.260
care that we put into it,
01:00:34.900 --> 01:00:35.320
and we are glad every year that all this work
01:00:37.940 --> 01:00:38.440
is doing something in terms of community
01:00:41.420 --> 01:00:41.600
building, in terms of leading more people to
01:00:42.880 --> 01:00:43.380
join us every year as speakers,
01:00:45.040 --> 01:00:45.540
or just join us as a user of Emacs.
01:00:49.940 --> 01:00:50.100
And it's always a pleasure to organize the
01:00:51.140 --> 01:00:51.640
conference, to host it,
01:00:53.360 --> 01:00:53.620
and to work with everyone in the room
01:00:56.840 --> 01:00:57.340
currently. Corwin and I are constantly joking
01:00:59.640 --> 01:01:00.140
when we are backstage making jokes.
01:01:03.540 --> 01:01:03.840
I think it's Corwin we said last year during
01:01:06.620 --> 01:01:06.900
the closing remarks that there was no other
01:01:09.000 --> 01:01:09.500
place they'd rather be than in the backstage.
01:01:12.800 --> 01:01:12.940
And for me, even though many things have
01:01:15.040 --> 01:01:15.360
changed in my life over the last year,
01:01:16.240 --> 01:01:16.740
many good things have happened,
01:01:19.640 --> 01:01:19.860
it's good to come back to Emacs Cons as this
01:01:22.080 --> 01:01:22.580
milestone and say, oh yeah,
01:01:23.960 --> 01:01:24.220
I'm exactly where I want to be,
01:01:25.320 --> 01:01:25.820
with the people I want to be with,
01:01:29.020 --> 01:01:29.220
and I see myself and I cannot wait to see
01:01:30.660 --> 01:01:31.080
myself again in the situation next year.
01:01:32.080 --> 01:01:32.580
So thank you so much everyone.
01:01:34.440 --> 01:01:34.640
If you want to join us,
01:01:36.100 --> 01:01:36.180
ask questions, we'll still be here for a
01:01:37.360 --> 01:01:37.640
while. Floey might drop out,
01:01:39.520 --> 01:01:40.020
I might drop out, Sasha might drop out,
01:01:41.600 --> 01:01:41.880
but we'll be here to answer as many questions
01:01:43.140 --> 01:01:43.640
as you want for as long as we can.
01:01:46.120 --> 01:01:46.280
Bye bye everyone and let's get started with
01:01:46.800 --> 01:01:47.300
the after show now.
01:01:51.540 --> 01:01:52.040
[Speaker 0]: Bye Leo, bye Chloe! I'll drop out eventually
01:01:53.000 --> 01:01:53.500
when the kiddo yells at me.
01:01:56.200 --> 01:01:56.440
[Speaker 3]: I can't tell you how much fun this is,
01:01:58.260 --> 01:01:58.440
yeah. The way to remember what I said,
01:02:00.400 --> 01:02:00.700
Leo, it's 100% true. Oh man,
01:02:01.380 --> 01:02:01.640
turning off your lights,
01:02:02.880 --> 01:02:03.220
I'm doing it. I'm doing it too.
01:02:04.600 --> 01:02:04.900
Sorry y'all. Oh, yeah,
01:02:05.380 --> 01:02:05.880
bye-bye lights
01:02:10.440 --> 01:02:10.760
[Speaker 4]: Yeah, that's every year that's how we finish
01:02:12.340 --> 01:02:12.500
we just turn off the the big lights that we
01:02:14.240 --> 01:02:14.440
have in our faces all the day especially the
01:02:14.440 --> 01:02:14.940
hosts
01:02:19.120 --> 01:02:19.460
[Speaker 3]: and Tell me if there's too much back chatter
01:02:22.700 --> 01:02:23.200
[Speaker 5]: get off my headphones,
01:02:24.280 --> 01:02:24.720
too, so I can
01:02:25.260 --> 01:02:25.760
[Speaker 3]: when I hear you in the room.
01:02:28.860 --> 01:02:29.360
Can I hear you now? Yeah.
01:02:31.960 --> 01:02:32.460
Is it feeding back pretty bad?
01:02:34.480 --> 01:02:34.980
[Speaker 1]: Hello? there is some echo.
01:02:37.460 --> 01:02:37.960
[Speaker 4]: Yeah, there is some echo.
01:02:41.200 --> 01:02:41.380
[Speaker 3]: I think Okay. Fine. I can live with my
01:02:42.160 --> 01:02:42.660
headset a little longer.
01:02:44.860 --> 01:02:45.360
I give 1 ear a break at a time.
01:02:47.140 --> 01:02:47.640
[Speaker 1]: Thanks for your sacrifice.
01:02:50.060 --> 01:02:50.560
[Speaker 3]: Oh, well, you know, it's a small,
01:02:53.080 --> 01:02:53.360
small, small price to pay to get to smooth
01:02:56.600 --> 01:02:56.820
with y'all. Yeah, I was just looking at that
01:02:58.580 --> 01:02:58.820
chart and I was thinking about all of those
01:03:01.360 --> 01:03:01.560
meetings that we had like 18 months we were
01:03:05.900 --> 01:03:06.400
just on this death march to organize this and
01:03:09.240 --> 01:03:09.520
it's just such an amazing accomplishment that
01:03:11.960 --> 01:03:12.140
you you have here Sasha like I'm sorry to
01:03:14.540 --> 01:03:14.760
pick on you personally but the work that you
01:03:16.680 --> 01:03:17.180
put in keep being able to keep it the whole
01:03:18.760 --> 01:03:19.260
technical project in your mind,
01:03:21.580 --> 01:03:21.760
all the way down to presenting it at this
01:03:24.100 --> 01:03:24.480
year's conference and like kind of spoon
01:03:26.380 --> 01:03:26.520
feeding it to people that want to run off in
01:03:27.900 --> 01:03:28.260
their own damn direction and then handing
01:03:31.480 --> 01:03:31.880
them an org is the 1 that people keep bugging
01:03:33.440 --> 01:03:33.940
us about. So if you're looking for a project,
01:03:37.340 --> 01:03:37.840
here it is. Just really well done.
01:03:43.540 --> 01:03:43.980
I no longer feel like we wasted a lot of time
01:03:46.460 --> 01:03:46.680
there. I mean, you remember I enjoyed so much
01:03:48.600 --> 01:03:49.100
all of our check ins and all of that stuff.
01:03:51.420 --> 01:03:51.920
But we had so many ideas,
01:03:53.480 --> 01:03:53.980
you can imagine that I wondered,
01:03:56.980 --> 01:03:57.160
you know, I wondered if we should have had
01:03:58.520 --> 01:03:58.700
more focused meetings and all that.
01:04:01.100 --> 01:04:01.360
And I was glad when we stopped having like
01:04:04.240 --> 01:04:04.540
weekly meetings, because you know what I mean
01:04:06.980 --> 01:04:07.120
To keep this much power in the room once a
01:04:08.160 --> 01:04:08.660
week, it feels creepy.
01:04:10.560 --> 01:04:11.060
This much intellectual power.
01:04:18.525 --> 01:04:18.820
Anyway, that's it. I think that's it for me.
01:04:19.600 --> 01:04:19.760
[Speaker 1]: Yeah, and I'll say, I mean,
01:04:22.280 --> 01:04:22.540
I can't obviously speak for Sash or anyone
01:04:24.840 --> 01:04:24.940
else. Yeah, the regular meetings were a
01:04:26.980 --> 01:04:27.180
little bit intense than we had the year
01:04:29.540 --> 01:04:29.680
before, but I'm kind of also super glad that
01:04:31.840 --> 01:04:32.040
we did do them. And, you know,
01:04:34.840 --> 01:04:34.960
in a way, it did help us sort of connect and
01:04:38.180 --> 01:04:38.360
get to know each other much more regularly or
01:04:41.200 --> 01:04:41.440
much more which is great and I see thumbs up
01:04:44.900 --> 01:04:45.060
from Leo and Corwin so yeah happy we did
01:04:49.080 --> 01:04:49.280
them. Might want to have some kind of
01:04:51.820 --> 01:04:52.040
actually irregular ones every once in a while
01:04:53.400 --> 01:04:53.860
if we have to decide on something.
01:04:55.240 --> 01:04:55.520
But if like this year,
01:04:57.400 --> 01:04:57.600
everything can be worked out pretty much ad
01:04:58.780 --> 01:04:59.020
hoc, whenever needs be,
01:05:00.480 --> 01:05:00.980
like over asynchronous communications.
01:05:03.640 --> 01:05:04.140
I see Sasha nodding very excitedly.
01:05:07.820 --> 01:05:08.320
This also works. So yeah.
01:05:10.920 --> 01:05:11.420
And I also see some questions coming in here
01:05:14.580 --> 01:05:15.040
in BBB. If other folks want to join,
01:05:16.280 --> 01:05:16.780
please feel free to do that as well.
01:05:18.800 --> 01:05:19.300
Yeah, I don't think we have an issue tracker
01:05:22.440 --> 01:05:22.860
right now, but our whole website is a wiki.
01:05:24.780 --> 01:05:25.280
So if you wanna like create a new page or
01:05:26.180 --> 01:05:26.480
there might be a page,
01:05:28.640 --> 01:05:28.780
I don't know. You can of course go in and
01:05:29.760 --> 01:05:30.260
edit it to your heart's content.
01:05:36.540 --> 01:05:37.040
[Speaker 3]: Yeah. Hilarious, I couldn't,
01:05:39.440 --> 01:05:39.600
like I almost managed to type that as fast as
01:05:40.760 --> 01:05:41.260
you could say it, you know.
01:05:43.840 --> 01:05:43.940
That's fine. I get the same answer in the
01:05:46.620 --> 01:05:46.800
chat. Yep. Our website's a wiki and we
01:05:48.060 --> 01:05:48.260
definitely use ideas here.
01:05:50.280 --> 01:05:50.540
If you want to implement them or you know
01:05:53.100 --> 01:05:53.440
document them enough that even Corwin can
01:05:55.240 --> 01:05:55.740
code it then you know I'll do that.
01:05:58.220 --> 01:05:58.380
[Speaker 0]: Also I'll go through all the etherpads at
01:06:00.240 --> 01:06:00.480
some point to harvest them and I think I have
01:06:02.240 --> 01:06:02.480
yeah I have an Emacs list function that does
01:06:05.020 --> 01:06:05.280
this for me. So that I can go through that
01:06:06.820 --> 01:06:07.280
thing and include that in our organizers
01:06:09.060 --> 01:06:09.280
notebooks, lessons learned and ideas for next
01:06:09.280 --> 01:06:09.780
year.
01:06:11.120 --> 01:06:11.620
[Speaker 3]: Yeah.
01:06:15.010 --> 01:06:15.060
[Speaker 4]: Yeah, because something that you know,
01:06:16.280 --> 01:06:16.720
We were talking about the different models
01:06:18.680 --> 01:06:18.840
between having many, many meetings and how it
01:06:20.280 --> 01:06:20.760
paid off eventually. The thing is,
01:06:22.160 --> 01:06:22.660
this year we had no meetings.
01:06:27.440 --> 01:06:27.660
We met Friday morning on Mumble and we were
01:06:29.540 --> 01:06:29.720
ready to go. We did chat things up a little
01:06:30.180 --> 01:06:30.660
bit on ISE, obviously,
01:06:31.780 --> 01:06:32.120
but no meeting this year.
01:06:33.420 --> 01:06:33.640
So I'm tempted to say that,
01:06:34.800 --> 01:06:35.080
yes, we could have off-hand meetings,
01:06:36.360 --> 01:06:36.480
but I think it's mostly because we want to
01:06:38.240 --> 01:06:38.680
see 1 another, not because we need
01:06:40.680 --> 01:06:41.160
necessarily for those meetings to prepare
01:06:45.480 --> 01:06:45.660
Emacs cons. But what I wanted to say as well
01:06:49.740 --> 01:06:50.200
is that I think it's a testament to the bets
01:06:52.940 --> 01:06:53.140
that Sasha took last year to automatize a lot
01:06:54.520 --> 01:06:54.720
of things. I mean, we'd already been
01:06:55.760 --> 01:06:56.120
automatizing a lot of stuff,
01:06:58.260 --> 01:06:58.760
like writing scripts for every single thing
01:07:02.220 --> 01:07:02.600
in ESPire, but last year we made a big bet to
01:07:04.600 --> 01:07:04.920
say, what if we had OBS in the cloud?
01:07:06.580 --> 01:07:06.760
What if we had a streaming platform that was
01:07:08.680 --> 01:07:08.860
running on a machine? And this is what
01:07:11.660 --> 01:07:12.100
allowed us to very smoothly have 2 tracks,
01:07:13.380 --> 01:07:13.880
the general track and the dev track.
01:07:16.640 --> 01:07:16.980
And I think the beauty of this system is
01:07:19.680 --> 01:07:19.840
that, obviously, because we get more and more
01:07:20.720 --> 01:07:21.220
speakers submitting talks,
01:07:22.800 --> 01:07:23.100
we are starting to think maybe we actually
01:07:26.480 --> 01:07:26.740
need a third track or something and no 1 is
01:07:28.580 --> 01:07:29.080
stressed in the room when Sasha says this.
01:07:31.100 --> 01:07:31.360
You know, there's not the reaction that's
01:07:32.320 --> 01:07:32.540
like, oh no it's gonna be tough,
01:07:33.200 --> 01:07:33.620
we're gonna need more hosts,
01:07:34.480 --> 01:07:34.980
organizers, it's just a calm...
01:07:37.580 --> 01:07:38.040
[Speaker 3]: Now, point of order, Now Flowy is stressed
01:07:39.000 --> 01:07:39.500
when Sasha says this.
01:07:44.640 --> 01:07:45.060
[Speaker 4]: That was just a-
01:07:46.640 --> 01:07:46.800
[Speaker 0]: I didn't know, Colin, we could put you in the
01:07:47.720 --> 01:07:47.880
spot next year. You'd be like,
01:07:49.200 --> 01:07:49.400
you know, hey, Colin, what do you feel about
01:07:49.400 --> 01:07:49.900
hosting?
01:07:53.300 --> 01:07:53.800
[Speaker 3]: You know, I'm happy to do it.
01:07:56.960 --> 01:07:57.260
And I feel, I mean, just to jump in there and
01:07:59.540 --> 01:08:00.040
say, yes, exactly. No,
01:08:01.400 --> 01:08:01.560
there's no concern on the part of the
01:08:03.220 --> 01:08:03.720
organizer committee that we could expand
01:08:06.000 --> 01:08:06.180
this. If you said we needed to expand to 4
01:08:08.400 --> 01:08:08.900
tracks, I think we would gulp and consider
01:08:10.080 --> 01:08:10.360
it, you know, from there,
01:08:11.040 --> 01:08:11.540
it gets a little crazy,
01:08:13.980 --> 01:08:14.260
but strictly because there aren't that many
01:08:16.399 --> 01:08:16.899
people that we know want to commit.
01:08:18.120 --> 01:08:18.399
What did we see there?
01:08:20.600 --> 01:08:20.939
80 hours of potential work that,
01:08:23.000 --> 01:08:23.200
you know, that could go into organizing next
01:08:25.439 --> 01:08:25.580
year's conference if you find that it's a
01:08:26.979 --> 01:08:27.399
rabbit hole for you and being a streamer
01:08:28.979 --> 01:08:29.140
means you want to read every email and
01:08:31.500 --> 01:08:31.819
respond to every, as Sasha has done this last
01:08:34.439 --> 01:08:34.819
year, right? So when I look at her numbers
01:08:35.359 --> 01:08:35.859
for total participation,
01:08:38.000 --> 01:08:38.500
that's really a high watermark.
01:08:43.439 --> 01:08:43.939
Sasha really took care of this convention,
01:08:46.680 --> 01:08:47.180
you know, like a producer might.
01:08:52.240 --> 01:08:52.660
And the fact that what used to take 200 hours
01:08:56.000 --> 01:08:56.260
before, I mean, I can't harp enough on the
01:08:57.720 --> 01:08:57.979
story that that's telling you,
01:09:00.399 --> 01:09:00.800
right? And as I think about it with a project
01:09:01.800 --> 01:09:02.080
manager hat on, right?
01:09:02.960 --> 01:09:03.160
I'm saying, okay, well,
01:09:07.080 --> 01:09:07.580
that's, you know, that work can potentially
01:09:09.800 --> 01:09:09.960
be amplified to many thousands of hours of
01:09:11.800 --> 01:09:11.920
work, considering the automation and the
01:09:13.279 --> 01:09:13.439
potential for bringing people in.
01:09:14.540 --> 01:09:14.800
So if you thought about it as a money-making
01:09:16.319 --> 01:09:16.520
thing, If we were trying to make money by
01:09:16.960 --> 01:09:17.460
having these conventions,
01:09:19.040 --> 01:09:19.540
you would think we have a very profitable
01:09:23.760 --> 01:09:24.000
business here because we can amplify the
01:09:25.640 --> 01:09:25.939
talent that walks in the door really
01:09:28.140 --> 01:09:28.640
effectively, if that makes sense,
01:09:29.800 --> 01:09:30.300
through the tools and the training.
01:09:33.800 --> 01:09:33.960
[Speaker 0]: So we should clarify that if anyone wants to
01:09:35.920 --> 01:09:36.180
volunteer as a host or just check in,
01:09:38.300 --> 01:09:38.380
let's just talk host. It's really just a
01:09:40.080 --> 01:09:40.580
matter of showing up, making sure your BVB
01:09:42.160 --> 01:09:42.439
works so you can talk.
01:09:43.260 --> 01:09:43.620
If you want to share your webcam,
01:09:44.899 --> 01:09:45.040
you can. You can skip it if you don't want
01:09:46.359 --> 01:09:46.859
to. You can share the screen with the pad.
01:09:48.640 --> 01:09:48.800
And then you just sit there and you chat with
01:09:51.260 --> 01:09:51.399
a speaker and you read the questions off the
01:09:53.240 --> 01:09:53.399
pad in case they don't read the questions off
01:09:56.740 --> 01:09:57.240
themselves. So it can be a very low effort,
01:09:59.440 --> 01:09:59.940
low stress way to get into it and just there
01:10:02.840 --> 01:10:03.000
kind of helping the speaker have somebody to
01:10:05.540 --> 01:10:05.820
talk to. It doesn't have to take 80 hours.
01:10:08.220 --> 01:10:08.720
It can take 2 hours and that's cool.
01:10:10.680 --> 01:10:10.840
[Speaker 3]: And the same, and that's just like the
01:10:11.820 --> 01:10:12.040
transcription task. Yeah,
01:10:13.700 --> 01:10:13.980
sorry, I probably missed the lead there,
01:10:16.080 --> 01:10:16.360
right? Every individual part of this is
01:10:19.160 --> 01:10:19.660
really easy. So it's an open-ended commitment
01:10:22.360 --> 01:10:22.860
to come and kind of meet a part of the
01:10:24.840 --> 01:10:25.340
committee, a part of the community,
01:10:27.040 --> 01:10:27.540
right? To come in and say,
01:10:29.440 --> 01:10:29.940
maybe you're really excited about org,
01:10:33.420 --> 01:10:33.600
you could review talks and just review the
01:10:35.420 --> 01:10:35.660
org ones. There's not an obligation that says
01:10:37.440 --> 01:10:37.800
you're going to look at every talk that's
01:10:40.520 --> 01:10:40.640
submitted, right? Share your thoughts on the
01:10:42.500 --> 01:10:42.660
talks that you have a chance to review the
01:10:44.440 --> 01:10:44.900
proposals. That's the submissions review
01:10:48.040 --> 01:10:48.540
part, right? So there's a way to help with
01:10:51.820 --> 01:10:52.120
almost any appetite for I'd like a little
01:10:54.520 --> 01:10:54.780
extra work in the Emacs department here like
01:10:56.480 --> 01:10:56.640
if you want to feel like you're part of the
01:10:59.600 --> 01:10:59.800
team this this team is really easy to get
01:11:02.440 --> 01:11:02.710
[Speaker 7]: think that's
01:11:03.680 --> 01:11:03.840
[Speaker 3]: involved with. I I mean,
01:11:04.280 --> 01:11:04.440
please. Go ahead,
01:11:06.820 --> 01:11:07.320
[Speaker 4]: No, no, please. I've talked enough.
01:11:08.940 --> 01:11:09.100
[Speaker 1]: sort of the... Leo. Well,
01:11:10.380 --> 01:11:10.660
I don't get tired of hearing you talk,
01:11:13.000 --> 01:11:13.500
but yeah, I was going to say,
01:11:16.920 --> 01:11:17.320
Yeah, I feel like that's the general message
01:11:19.600 --> 01:11:19.920
here is that we're all just a bunch of people
01:11:21.360 --> 01:11:21.860
who are interested in this.
01:11:24.060 --> 01:11:24.560
And of course, being humans,
01:11:26.120 --> 01:11:26.280
each of us have different kinds of lives and
01:11:27.560 --> 01:11:27.720
different kinds of availabilities and
01:11:28.260 --> 01:11:28.760
different kinds of interests.
01:11:29.860 --> 01:11:30.360
And there is something for everybody,
01:11:34.300 --> 01:11:34.540
both in terms of the kinds of tasks that you
01:11:37.480 --> 01:11:37.760
need doing, but also in terms of the amount
01:11:39.980 --> 01:11:40.480
of time that you want or are able to put in.
01:11:43.780 --> 01:11:44.080
So yes, if you do think this is something
01:11:46.240 --> 01:11:46.700
that you might be interested in helping with
01:11:47.980 --> 01:11:48.400
for future additions and such,
01:11:51.140 --> 01:11:51.340
or even some of the post-conference work that
01:11:52.300 --> 01:11:52.800
needs doing after this year.
01:11:55.800 --> 01:11:55.960
Please reach out there's something for
01:11:57.440 --> 01:11:57.940
everybody and I would love to have
01:12:03.020 --> 01:12:03.360
[Speaker 6]: you. I can confirm there was an easy access
01:12:06.260 --> 01:12:06.500
so I came here last year just doing some
01:12:08.600 --> 01:12:09.100
checking in and the process of getting,
01:12:10.840 --> 01:12:11.120
it's called a trained in was really,
01:12:12.520 --> 01:12:12.620
really short. There was a lot of
01:12:13.700 --> 01:12:14.200
documentation how to do something.
01:12:17.720 --> 01:12:17.920
I mean, there's a pad that gets sent and what
01:12:20.540 --> 01:12:20.660
to do, when to do, and what to ask is like
01:12:22.160 --> 01:12:22.660
really incredible. So thank you for that.
01:12:26.320 --> 01:12:26.820
Just come here, write an email,
01:12:28.860 --> 01:12:29.200
join us. It's really, really cool.
01:12:30.920 --> 01:12:31.420
And it's a great experience to be honest.
01:12:35.680 --> 01:12:35.900
[Speaker 4]: Thank you. And while Sasha is speaking about
01:12:36.820 --> 01:12:37.280
the update of the wiki,
01:12:38.320 --> 01:12:38.820
oh Coleman did you want to say something?
01:12:41.140 --> 01:12:41.600
[Speaker 3]: No I was just I was just gonna embarrass
01:12:44.240 --> 01:12:44.740
Floey Coder further but you go ahead.
01:12:51.000 --> 01:12:51.200
I was just gonna say I think you're pretty
01:12:52.420 --> 01:12:52.900
quick, you're pretty quick,
01:12:55.320 --> 01:12:55.820
you took to it really quickly or you show
01:12:57.240 --> 01:12:57.740
just kind of a reflexive calm.
01:12:59.340 --> 01:12:59.720
Like you know how to not talk over people.
01:13:01.200 --> 01:13:01.700
You're already better at it than I am.
01:13:06.500 --> 01:13:07.000
Now, you know, I think,
01:13:09.000 --> 01:13:09.280
yeah, I hope you're enjoying the new stuff
01:13:10.600 --> 01:13:10.720
that you're starting to take on because you
01:13:12.040 --> 01:13:12.540
seem to be doing great with it.
01:13:14.220 --> 01:13:14.500
And yeah, I hope you're not sitting there
01:13:15.720 --> 01:13:16.080
thinking that you're taking,
01:13:17.960 --> 01:13:18.340
you know, that you're coming on,
01:13:19.700 --> 01:13:19.920
that you're not taking on enough
01:13:21.420 --> 01:13:21.680
responsibility or anything like that,
01:13:23.100 --> 01:13:23.600
or I don't know, maybe.
01:13:26.040 --> 01:13:26.240
I picked up like a little undercurrent of
01:13:28.100 --> 01:13:28.380
like, I don't do that much,
01:13:31.440 --> 01:13:31.940
and I hope you don't feel that way because I
01:13:33.719 --> 01:13:34.219
just enjoyed really having your help the last
01:13:38.680 --> 01:13:39.180
couple of years. Thank you very much.
01:13:47.640 --> 01:13:47.720
[Speaker 4]: Yeah, that's how they get you,
01:13:48.560 --> 01:13:48.680
you know, they just tell you,
01:13:49.340 --> 01:13:49.840
oh, could you do check-ins?
01:13:51.820 --> 01:13:52.180
Like I showed up for 4 years ago saying,
01:13:54.660 --> 01:13:55.080
oh, I'd like to help and look at me now.
01:13:56.780 --> 01:13:57.040
I think I did I host on the first year?
01:13:57.800 --> 01:13:58.300
I'm pretty sure I did.
01:14:00.020 --> 01:14:00.420
Like it took 2 months basically of onboarding
01:14:02.960 --> 01:14:03.160
to convince me to do some of the hosting and
01:14:06.820 --> 01:14:07.000
back then oh it was so tough for us to do the
01:14:08.440 --> 01:14:08.680
hosting because we didn't have all the fancy
01:14:10.320 --> 01:14:10.680
setup we have this year and we were
01:14:13.680 --> 01:14:14.180
struggling with OBS with bid rates with
01:14:18.160 --> 01:14:18.340
sharing scenes I'm glad we are where we are
01:14:20.460 --> 01:14:20.760
today, where I don't have to worry as much
01:14:21.880 --> 01:14:22.120
about this. But it's also nice,
01:14:24.440 --> 01:14:24.580
it's also 1 thing, we do have a culture of
01:14:25.760 --> 01:14:26.260
documentation as Sasha exemplified,
01:14:28.140 --> 01:14:28.640
and like Flo mentioned,
01:14:29.540 --> 01:14:29.820
documentation on the roles.
01:14:33.060 --> 01:14:33.560
Yes, We did do this to help people join us.
01:14:39.360 --> 01:14:39.840
But really, I'm the host of General,
01:14:41.660 --> 01:14:41.840
but it could be just anyone else because we
01:14:43.780 --> 01:14:44.020
have so much documentation on how to do
01:14:46.560 --> 01:14:46.780
things. Obviously, when a co-organizer is
01:14:48.740 --> 01:14:48.900
doing a role, we tend to have an eye on how
01:14:49.740 --> 01:14:50.160
the infrastructure is going.
01:14:51.820 --> 01:14:52.320
But really, if you want to join us,
01:14:54.720 --> 01:14:54.940
we will make sure that the jobs that you
01:14:57.240 --> 01:14:57.500
have, first, you like them and it's something
01:14:59.440 --> 01:14:59.640
that interests you, and we will also make
01:15:04.180 --> 01:15:04.400
sure that on our end, everything goes well
01:15:06.140 --> 01:15:06.640
for you. Like we'll be monitoring the streams
01:15:08.540 --> 01:15:09.040
and every time we have a new person join us,
01:15:13.500 --> 01:15:14.000
it is as much energy and mental availability
01:15:17.780 --> 01:15:18.220
to invest into, oh, maybe we could do this.
01:15:19.800 --> 01:15:19.940
Oh, 0, we have a fire going out because the
01:15:21.320 --> 01:15:21.820
speaker hasn't checked in yet.
01:15:24.060 --> 01:15:24.560
So it's all about sharing expertise,
01:15:27.180 --> 01:15:27.260
it's all about making people level up in
01:15:28.520 --> 01:15:29.020
terms of skills that are really useful.
01:15:34.120 --> 01:15:34.280
I will attribute a lot of my success in
01:15:35.920 --> 01:15:36.120
public speaking to the work I do with
01:15:38.620 --> 01:15:39.120
EmacsConf, and I'm sure plenty of people
01:15:43.420 --> 01:15:43.620
would gain from joining us and learning these
01:15:47.440 --> 01:15:47.940
skills. All right, It's about 30 minutes past
01:15:49.740 --> 01:15:49.920
the official time. Do we want to go a little
01:15:51.180 --> 01:15:51.680
longer? Are we still available to go?
01:15:55.180 --> 01:15:55.680
All right, well, let's keep going.
01:16:00.443 --> 01:16:00.486
I don't see any more people joining us on the
01:16:00.660 --> 01:16:00.703
[Speaker 1]: We have Bob,
01:16:01.240 --> 01:16:01.720
[Speaker 4]: Blue Button. who was 1 of the speakers today
01:16:03.940 --> 01:16:04.200
in the room. Bob, do you want to maybe unmute
01:16:05.400 --> 01:16:05.900
yourself and ask us some questions?
01:16:08.420 --> 01:16:08.720
Or just thank us. I mean,
01:16:09.480 --> 01:16:09.840
I'm just begging for something.
01:16:10.920 --> 01:16:11.420
But I know you've been very helpful.
01:16:15.340 --> 01:16:15.720
[Speaker 5]: Yes. How are you? No, I've really had fun.
01:16:18.340 --> 01:16:18.600
No, I'm exhausted. I'm exhausted for you,
01:16:22.800 --> 01:16:23.300
I think. So I learned something.
01:16:25.040 --> 01:16:25.460
Everybody wants to record their videos,
01:16:26.460 --> 01:16:26.940
which of course, is great,
01:16:28.380 --> 01:16:28.480
and then you have the subtitles and
01:16:31.560 --> 01:16:32.040
everything. But I saved a lot of time by
01:16:35.600 --> 01:16:35.740
doing it live this year and not going in and
01:16:38.040 --> 01:16:38.200
tweaking and doing all the editing and
01:16:39.440 --> 01:16:39.860
spending all the time that we do.
01:16:42.480 --> 01:16:42.720
And it was kind of fun to do it that way too.
01:16:44.900 --> 01:16:45.400
So just a little note there.
01:16:48.340 --> 01:16:48.640
But I look forward to seeing 1 of my talks
01:16:53.760 --> 01:16:53.940
subtitled someday. So no,
01:16:55.240 --> 01:16:55.740
I love what you do. It's fun.
01:16:57.660 --> 01:16:57.900
I've only seen part of Sasha's talk,
01:17:00.660 --> 01:17:01.000
so I'll go and review that about how you're
01:17:03.840 --> 01:17:04.340
automating all this. You know,
01:17:06.560 --> 01:17:06.680
it's a little sad for me personally that of
01:17:09.080 --> 01:17:09.580
course, Org gets all the attention,
01:17:14.060 --> 01:17:14.340
but you know, we're exposing hyperbole more
01:17:16.820 --> 01:17:17.240
now and There's definitely a growing interest
01:17:18.800 --> 01:17:19.020
on Reddit and you know,
01:17:20.140 --> 01:17:20.640
I think it's kind of like EmacsConf.
01:17:23.680 --> 01:17:23.900
Give it a few years. We went away for a long
01:17:24.840 --> 01:17:25.340
time and then we came back.
01:17:30.420 --> 01:17:30.880
We'll start to see it permeate the Emacs
01:17:33.160 --> 01:17:33.660
first. But I was thinking that,
01:17:36.720 --> 01:17:36.960
you know, I think people who like Emacs and
01:17:38.340 --> 01:17:38.840
stuff, they read things online,
01:17:40.920 --> 01:17:41.420
they come to this conference,
01:17:43.620 --> 01:17:43.940
but we're always hearing about,
01:17:44.620 --> 01:17:45.120
well, the next generation.
01:17:47.260 --> 01:17:47.500
We have to deal with that.
01:17:50.000 --> 01:17:50.160
And I think a lot of people get exposed to
01:17:52.900 --> 01:17:53.120
Emacs in college. Now a professor turns them
01:17:55.080 --> 01:17:55.460
on to it and makes them use it,
01:17:57.100 --> 01:17:57.600
and then they go out into the real world,
01:17:59.720 --> 01:18:00.220
and there's no encouragement anymore,
01:18:01.460 --> 01:18:01.960
and they just drop it.
01:18:05.600 --> 01:18:05.980
And with all of what you're putting together
01:18:09.280 --> 01:18:09.720
here, it seems like if there was some reach
01:18:14.120 --> 01:18:14.620
out to universities and college students,
01:18:18.600 --> 01:18:19.100
You know, we might get a whole new big crowd
01:18:22.360 --> 01:18:22.580
of people coming in. You know,
01:18:25.200 --> 01:18:25.320
just as I think OREG has really attracted a
01:18:26.840 --> 01:18:27.340
lot of people in the sciences,
01:18:30.060 --> 01:18:30.440
since that's what it was originally developed
01:18:32.500 --> 01:18:32.860
for. So just a thought,
01:18:35.740 --> 01:18:35.900
you know, maybe if you get any volunteers who
01:18:38.440 --> 01:18:38.940
can help in the reach out or just,
01:18:40.320 --> 01:18:40.560
you know, sending things around to
01:18:43.780 --> 01:18:44.020
universities that might really extend who
01:18:45.060 --> 01:18:45.560
gets exposed to this stuff.
01:18:49.240 --> 01:18:49.480
[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I think that's a great and very
01:18:51.960 --> 01:18:52.020
interesting idea. And it sort of touches on a
01:18:52.600 --> 01:18:53.000
couple of different things.
01:18:53.640 --> 01:18:54.140
Sort of like you mentioned,
01:18:56.180 --> 01:18:56.400
well, with org, it sort of really drew into
01:19:00.060 --> 01:19:00.560
sciences, folks. It would be interesting to
01:19:03.280 --> 01:19:03.780
see other parts of Emacs doing that for other
01:19:05.740 --> 01:19:06.240
kinds of communities, but also specifically,
01:19:08.920 --> 01:19:09.420
I guess, for colleges and universities.
01:19:14.220 --> 01:19:14.680
Yeah, it would be cool if we had local groups
01:19:17.140 --> 01:19:17.300
or local meetups, because so far right now,
01:19:20.140 --> 01:19:20.420
I think the most common ones are like by city
01:19:22.280 --> 01:19:22.440
like for example a Toronto Emacs meetup or
01:19:25.320 --> 01:19:25.760
something like that yeah if you could maybe
01:19:28.820 --> 01:19:29.320
encourage or help foster a university level
01:19:32.200 --> 01:19:32.520
type of thing you know University of blah
01:19:35.360 --> 01:19:35.860
blah Emacs group or something like that and
01:19:39.860 --> 01:19:40.080
you know seeing what their needs would be or
01:19:42.860 --> 01:19:43.360
trying to think also what features of Emacs
01:19:46.260 --> 01:19:46.560
would be very useful in an academic slash
01:19:48.680 --> 01:19:48.920
educational setting. Yeah,
01:19:50.460 --> 01:19:50.840
lots of food for thought there.
01:19:52.120 --> 01:19:52.620
So thank you for mentioning this.
01:20:02.420 --> 01:20:02.920
[Speaker 5]: Sure. And I guess, yeah,
01:20:04.400 --> 01:20:04.900
OBS is coming up here.
01:20:06.820 --> 01:20:07.040
I worked with that a bit,
01:20:08.920 --> 01:20:09.240
yes, last year. You know,
01:20:12.040 --> 01:20:12.540
another powerful piece of software with a
01:20:15.240 --> 01:20:15.740
sort of, I think, a weak user interface,
01:20:20.080 --> 01:20:20.540
you know, for the newbies coming along on it.
01:20:23.200 --> 01:20:23.700
And maybe, you know, if there's,
01:20:25.920 --> 01:20:26.420
if that's kind of what people use,
01:20:29.540 --> 01:20:29.700
figuring out or putting some information in
01:20:32.740 --> 01:20:33.240
the wiki about how to do that,
01:20:34.900 --> 01:20:35.400
you know, work with it or...
01:20:36.300 --> 01:20:36.800
[Speaker 4]: Oh, good idea.
01:20:43.140 --> 01:20:43.340
[Speaker 3]: I can comment. It is definitely the
01:20:46.420 --> 01:20:46.920
preeminent streamer software out there,
01:20:49.120 --> 01:20:49.620
well beyond the free software community.
01:20:54.120 --> 01:20:54.500
It's used by most streamers on Twitch and
01:20:59.680 --> 01:20:59.960
other like commercial for-profit things but
01:21:01.780 --> 01:21:02.220
of course those companies are making money
01:21:04.480 --> 01:21:04.700
off people trying to give money to the
01:21:07.200 --> 01:21:07.440
streamers. Those streamers aren't getting any
01:21:10.160 --> 01:21:10.660
software help. So actually most of them are
01:21:13.900 --> 01:21:14.400
dependent for their income on free software
01:21:18.680 --> 01:21:18.900
like OBS and OBS in specific or by some kind
01:21:23.100 --> 01:21:23.600
of forked brand name is the primary tool.
01:21:28.660 --> 01:21:28.820
[Speaker 4]: If I'm not mistaken I believe Stefan has
01:21:29.860 --> 01:21:30.360
joined us right now in the room.
01:21:33.240 --> 01:21:33.420
I'm putting you on the spot,
01:21:34.480 --> 01:21:34.760
if you want to stay muted you can.
01:21:35.640 --> 01:21:36.140
Oh, you have unmuted yourself.
01:21:38.400 --> 01:21:38.900
[Speaker 7]: I managed to click the unmute button.
01:21:41.180 --> 01:21:41.680
Yes, I'm here. How are you guys doing?
01:21:43.840 --> 01:21:44.200
[Speaker 4]: Doing good, surviving here.
01:21:44.200 --> 01:21:44.700
[Speaker 1]: Congratulations.
01:21:45.480 --> 01:21:45.980
[Speaker 4]: Late in your time.
01:21:50.040 --> 01:21:50.220
[Speaker 7]: Really amazing work organizing the
01:21:51.960 --> 01:21:52.460
conference. I really have to congratulate
01:21:56.120 --> 01:21:56.480
everyone. So I just hopped on here to sort of
01:21:58.140 --> 01:21:58.640
say that I'm extremely impressed.
01:22:04.240 --> 01:22:04.540
And I think this is an example to follow for
01:22:07.040 --> 01:22:07.440
other conferences and for Emacs in general.
01:22:09.400 --> 01:22:09.900
I think we need more of this community-type
01:22:12.940 --> 01:22:13.380
organizing and just getting people interested
01:22:15.960 --> 01:22:16.240
and involved on all kinds of levels can only
01:22:20.200 --> 01:22:20.340
help Emacs. Because we are in this for the
01:22:22.540 --> 01:22:23.040
long haul. That's it.
01:22:25.280 --> 01:22:25.780
[Speaker 3]: Oh, what a great point.
01:22:28.500 --> 01:22:28.740
If I can comment, that's 1 of the things that
01:22:30.720 --> 01:22:31.020
drew me to trying to contribute to free
01:22:32.580 --> 01:22:32.960
software when I was a kid,
01:22:35.580 --> 01:22:36.080
like we're talking now 30 plus years ago,
01:22:38.360 --> 01:22:38.860
the idea like, and I recognized it from
01:22:42.180 --> 01:22:42.620
Stallman's initial manifestos on the topic,
01:22:45.060 --> 01:22:45.360
right? He was clearly in this for the long
01:22:47.040 --> 01:22:47.540
haul. Like I am building the library of
01:22:50.500 --> 01:22:50.740
Alexandria here and like linking the work
01:22:52.420 --> 01:22:52.580
that we're trying to do to community that I
01:22:54.640 --> 01:22:54.900
don't know how you could touch my heart you
01:22:57.620 --> 01:22:57.840
know more surely because that's that's
01:22:59.440 --> 01:22:59.940
exactly what we want to do not necessarily
01:23:03.800 --> 01:23:04.300
any given talk or comment but the idea that
01:23:07.960 --> 01:23:08.460
we have to get together and share our ideas
01:23:10.900 --> 01:23:11.400
and the place that we do that has to be just
01:23:14.380 --> 01:23:14.880
has to be a buffet and not a crucible.
01:23:17.620 --> 01:23:17.800
[Speaker 7]: And look, we're standing on the shoulders of
01:23:19.400 --> 01:23:19.840
giants, really, when we're looking at Emacs
01:23:21.100 --> 01:23:21.600
and sort of what we have achieved.
01:23:24.680 --> 01:23:24.840
And the galaxy of talent that exists in the
01:23:27.040 --> 01:23:27.540
Emacs community is also like truly
01:23:30.800 --> 01:23:31.300
impressive, I think. So There's a lot of work
01:23:34.280 --> 01:23:34.780
to be done, but we've also achieved some
01:23:37.120 --> 01:23:37.480
pretty impressive things so far.
01:23:38.620 --> 01:23:39.120
So let's just keep at it.
01:23:43.200 --> 01:23:43.700
I'm sure we'll have a fantastic future for
01:23:44.180 --> 01:23:44.680
Emacs.
01:23:52.540 --> 01:23:53.040
[Speaker 5]: You know, I'm kind of interested in what
01:23:56.540 --> 01:23:57.040
Stefan's here. You know,
01:24:00.400 --> 01:24:00.900
just the common tropes that go around.
01:24:05.320 --> 01:24:05.740
I just hear it so much on the net,
01:24:07.540 --> 01:24:08.040
you know, is Emacs still alive?
01:24:09.960 --> 01:24:10.460
Do people still use it?
01:24:11.120 --> 01:24:11.480
You know, and of course,
01:24:13.620 --> 01:24:14.100
it's like you have an older piece of software
01:24:15.200 --> 01:24:15.700
that started so long ago,
01:24:17.540 --> 01:24:17.720
people don't realize that it's still up,
01:24:20.320 --> 01:24:20.820
but it's also because of the trends,
01:24:22.900 --> 01:24:23.400
right? You know, we've got the electron-based
01:24:28.580 --> 01:24:28.740
development and Visual Studio is slick out of
01:24:32.720 --> 01:24:33.220
the box. So what's in the core Emacs
01:24:36.260 --> 01:24:36.540
developers realm, obviously you guys are
01:24:38.160 --> 01:24:38.660
taking this longer term perspective,
01:24:44.060 --> 01:24:44.380
which makes sense, but what do you think
01:24:48.480 --> 01:24:48.980
about this issue, the shorter term and how to
01:24:52.200 --> 01:24:52.540
alleviate those concerns that some people
01:24:52.540 --> 01:24:53.040
represent?
01:24:54.820 --> 01:24:55.040
[Speaker 7]: Of course, yes. I mean,
01:24:55.840 --> 01:24:56.160
this is something that,
01:24:59.340 --> 01:24:59.600
I mean, clearly people are discussing and as
01:25:01.480 --> 01:25:01.800
you say, It's almost like a trope at this
01:25:04.200 --> 01:25:04.700
point. And it's been discussed on EmacsDevil,
01:25:07.800 --> 01:25:07.960
what can we do to promote Emacs more and to
01:25:10.240 --> 01:25:10.740
what extent should we care about that?
01:25:15.100 --> 01:25:15.600
And I mean, my reply to that is usually just,
01:25:19.120 --> 01:25:19.620
the rumors of my death are very accurate.
01:25:24.720 --> 01:25:25.220
And I think this is true also for Emacs.
01:25:29.240 --> 01:25:29.700
So we are very much here.
01:25:31.960 --> 01:25:32.460
I think what has happened also is reflective
01:25:34.960 --> 01:25:35.220
of basically that there are just more
01:25:36.580 --> 01:25:37.080
programmers on the planet,
01:25:38.040 --> 01:25:38.240
[Speaker 3]: And we
01:25:39.920 --> 01:25:40.420
[Speaker 7]: right? haven't been able to sort of catch
01:25:41.960 --> 01:25:42.460
that segment as it's been growing,
01:25:44.680 --> 01:25:45.060
but also we have more Emacs users I think
01:25:47.500 --> 01:25:47.860
today than probably ever before.
01:25:48.420 --> 01:25:48.920
We have more packages,
01:25:50.540 --> 01:25:51.040
we have more stuff going on.
01:25:55.580 --> 01:25:55.980
So I think it's a challenge as well,
01:25:58.200 --> 01:25:58.440
like to what extent do we wanna be like a
01:26:00.260 --> 01:26:00.420
niche and to what extent do we wanna be the
01:26:03.280 --> 01:26:03.780
text editor for programmers.
01:26:06.420 --> 01:26:06.720
And I think there's a tension there because
01:26:09.780 --> 01:26:09.960
we want to stay true to what Emacs is and to
01:26:12.440 --> 01:26:12.940
its sort of core values of what makes Emacs
01:26:16.720 --> 01:26:16.880
great, but can we still make some changes to
01:26:18.340 --> 01:26:18.760
sort of stay relevant.
01:26:21.060 --> 01:26:21.340
And I think that's a huge win.
01:26:24.800 --> 01:26:24.960
And clearly these discussions are going on on
01:26:26.980 --> 01:26:27.280
the Emacs level and in the minds of core
01:26:29.340 --> 01:26:29.640
developers, I think, every day.
01:26:32.040 --> 01:26:32.540
Even though, I mean, most of our work is just
01:26:35.320 --> 01:26:35.820
trying to keep adding new features,
01:26:38.220 --> 01:26:38.720
make sure that we have that sort of core
01:26:40.060 --> 01:26:40.400
infrastructure in place,
01:26:42.280 --> 01:26:42.500
which is part of the reason why I gave the
01:26:44.260 --> 01:26:44.680
talk I did yesterday, to invite more people
01:26:46.920 --> 01:26:46.960
to come on board. Because I see a lot of
01:26:48.200 --> 01:26:48.700
people have opinions about Emacs,
01:26:50.700 --> 01:26:51.200
which is amazing, and we need more of that.
01:26:54.160 --> 01:26:54.660
But I think, let's say,
01:26:56.280 --> 01:26:56.780
patches speak louder than words.
01:27:01.300 --> 01:27:01.780
Software. And it's definitely true in Emacs
01:27:01.780 --> 01:27:02.280
development.
01:27:04.680 --> 01:27:04.960
[Speaker 3]: I want to just piggyback on,
01:27:06.820 --> 01:27:06.940
like attack the premise of the question a
01:27:09.800 --> 01:27:09.960
little bit, right? Remember that we are sort
01:27:11.880 --> 01:27:12.380
of in a trench warfare with commercial
01:27:15.160 --> 01:27:15.660
interests that are dependent on dominating
01:27:20.660 --> 01:27:21.160
software ecosystems in order to exploit users
01:27:24.600 --> 01:27:24.760
for money. Like that is a necessary thing to
01:27:26.020 --> 01:27:26.420
a lot of people's business model.
01:27:30.060 --> 01:27:30.560
And so we live in a world where software is
01:27:32.760 --> 01:27:33.260
more than tools. It is clothing.
01:27:38.480 --> 01:27:38.840
And so when I put on my Mac and I put on my
01:27:42.860 --> 01:27:43.180
UI skin, I'm not just choosing whether I like
01:27:46.640 --> 01:27:46.960
sliders or radio buttons or check boxes or
01:27:49.840 --> 01:27:50.340
the other UI mechanics that give that
01:27:53.920 --> 01:27:54.160
heuristic and make it make me think it's easy
01:27:55.440 --> 01:27:55.940
to use, easy to learn to use,
01:27:59.160 --> 01:27:59.340
right? I'm also choosing a whole line of
01:28:02.080 --> 01:28:02.580
implementation detail that I'm being actively
01:28:06.040 --> 01:28:06.540
trained not to try to understand by,
01:28:08.720 --> 01:28:09.020
you know, kind of the dark side of the force
01:28:11.780 --> 01:28:12.100
over here. So when I think about,
01:28:14.380 --> 01:28:14.880
you know, make Emacs more like Toaster,
01:28:18.860 --> 01:28:19.060
[Speaker 1]: you know,
01:28:21.340 --> 01:28:21.560
[Speaker 3]: I, 1 of my responses is every time that
01:28:22.740 --> 01:28:22.960
question asks, you know,
01:28:24.160 --> 01:28:24.480
an angel grows, gets asked,
01:28:25.440 --> 01:28:25.720
an angel grows its wings.
01:28:27.040 --> 01:28:27.540
A developer submits a patch,
01:28:30.040 --> 01:28:30.240
a bug gets opened that we can,
01:28:31.840 --> 01:28:32.320
you know, with enough information to actually
01:28:33.240 --> 01:28:33.740
do something about it,
01:28:34.920 --> 01:28:35.280
the ecosystem gets better,
01:28:38.100 --> 01:28:38.600
right? Whether a new user comes or not,
01:28:40.680 --> 01:28:41.040
like somebody's actually asking a question
01:28:42.780 --> 01:28:42.900
that's going to lead them someday to pick a
01:28:43.260 --> 01:28:43.760
better tool.
01:28:47.620 --> 01:28:48.120
[Speaker 7]: Yeah, it's true. I mean,
01:28:50.000 --> 01:28:50.280
we have powerful enemies and they are not
01:28:52.540 --> 01:28:52.720
working for us. And when they are working on
01:28:54.960 --> 01:28:55.160
improving VS code, you can't be under any
01:28:56.640 --> 01:28:56.720
illusion that they are doing that in the
01:28:57.340 --> 01:28:57.660
interest of the users.
01:28:59.760 --> 01:29:00.060
They're doing that in their interest of the
01:29:02.620 --> 01:29:02.780
corporate owners. So this is the reality that
01:29:04.640 --> 01:29:04.900
we have to face and Emacs is just not like
01:29:07.920 --> 01:29:08.040
that. And this is of course part of the
01:29:09.960 --> 01:29:10.460
reason why it's so important that we continue
01:29:14.040 --> 01:29:14.260
this work for the future of being able to do
01:29:17.640 --> 01:29:17.800
computing in a free way and in a way that is
01:29:20.220 --> 01:29:20.380
actually, you know, supports the types of
01:29:21.740 --> 01:29:22.240
workflows that we know and love.
01:29:26.720 --> 01:29:26.920
[Speaker 4]: Something that I'd like to add to this is
01:29:29.680 --> 01:29:30.060
that, you know, you've mentioned we need more
01:29:30.640 --> 01:29:31.140
programmers in the world.
01:29:33.240 --> 01:29:33.340
And in light of what we're doing with
01:29:35.140 --> 01:29:35.220
EmacsConf, perhaps we need more people to be
01:29:36.580 --> 01:29:36.960
at EmacsConf talking, not necessarily
01:29:38.100 --> 01:29:38.600
programmers, but just people apprehending
01:29:40.520 --> 01:29:40.940
Emacs and talking about it.
01:29:42.720 --> 01:29:43.180
It feels like we've got different missions
01:29:44.440 --> 01:29:44.700
that we're trying to accomplish with this.
01:29:45.820 --> 01:29:46.320
We are... Okay, you...
01:29:47.780 --> 01:29:48.280
Go ahead, Colin.
01:29:49.600 --> 01:29:49.940
[Speaker 3]: I can't leave that alone.
01:29:52.120 --> 01:29:52.420
I almost came in there on the previous point.
01:29:55.020 --> 01:29:55.240
Yeah, I actually Completely agree with that
01:29:58.900 --> 01:29:59.140
Leo. That's something that and I mean to be
01:30:02.780 --> 01:30:03.240
fair. I owe a good I owe dev al a good email
01:30:05.800 --> 01:30:06.160
on this topic, but we desperately need more
01:30:07.840 --> 01:30:08.340
project managers, more solutions architect,
01:30:10.380 --> 01:30:10.880
more business process analysts,
01:30:12.660 --> 01:30:13.160
more systems analysts,
01:30:15.100 --> 01:30:15.560
more, you know, and the best tech,
01:30:17.900 --> 01:30:18.400
you know, some of the best threads start with
01:30:23.100 --> 01:30:23.420
quite a bit of an analytical work done on the
01:30:24.940 --> 01:30:25.440
part of an engineer who's come along.
01:30:29.320 --> 01:30:29.680
But actually, Larry Wall has this quote,
01:30:31.640 --> 01:30:32.140
right? Where he says, consider 3 solutions
01:30:34.120 --> 01:30:34.300
and build 1. And I think we struggle with
01:30:36.760 --> 01:30:37.260
that as a community because getting a patch
01:30:39.920 --> 01:30:40.120
is a lot of work and a lot to ask for
01:30:42.900 --> 01:30:43.080
somebody. So asking 3 people to submit a
01:30:45.200 --> 01:30:45.260
patch means you're saying no to a lot of
01:30:47.280 --> 01:30:47.560
blood, sweat and tears on the part of like 2
01:30:48.960 --> 01:30:49.460
people, maybe 2 teams of people.
01:30:55.520 --> 01:30:56.020
[Speaker 5]: And 1 thing I think is a big expansion is
01:31:02.020 --> 01:31:02.520
usability and user experience design.
01:31:05.560 --> 01:31:05.900
I think, and not in the sense like,
01:31:08.260 --> 01:31:08.760
you know, CUA mode or,
01:31:12.440 --> 01:31:12.560
you know, people don't realize that Emacs key
01:31:13.680 --> 01:31:14.180
bindings are actually ergonomic,
01:31:16.720 --> 01:31:17.220
but more, you know, like for myself,
01:31:20.240 --> 01:31:20.740
I did a lot of work in sort of bringing out
01:31:24.480 --> 01:31:24.880
Emacs features and did a lot of things
01:31:26.240 --> 01:31:26.740
creating this info doc,
01:31:28.940 --> 01:31:29.100
you know, which is sort of like Space Max or
01:31:30.300 --> 01:31:30.800
something in the old days.
01:31:33.900 --> 01:31:34.200
But the process, yeah,
01:31:38.600 --> 01:31:39.100
kept a lot of that from ever making it into
01:31:40.460 --> 01:31:40.680
CoreDMX and, you know,
01:31:44.180 --> 01:31:44.680
just a lack of time on my part to follow up.
01:31:46.560 --> 01:31:47.060
But if you had somebody,
01:31:51.220 --> 01:31:51.500
you know, who sort of coalesced all the
01:31:52.820 --> 01:31:53.260
technical work on like,
01:31:56.280 --> 01:31:56.480
here's how we can put it together and make it
01:32:01.320 --> 01:32:01.820
more accessible, I've seen that go a long way
01:32:02.800 --> 01:32:03.300
in certain environments.
01:32:06.100 --> 01:32:06.340
And I imagine, you know,
01:32:08.160 --> 01:32:08.660
it's just not the experience of,
01:32:11.180 --> 01:32:11.680
you know, most people on the core team.
01:32:14.620 --> 01:32:15.060
[Speaker 7]: Yeah, for sure. I mean,
01:32:16.160 --> 01:32:16.560
We don't have, I mean,
01:32:18.760 --> 01:32:18.900
we're mostly a bunch, we're a bunch of
01:32:20.080 --> 01:32:20.280
programmers. That's what we are,
01:32:22.640 --> 01:32:22.800
right? We don't have graphical signers or any
01:32:24.320 --> 01:32:24.620
of the stuff that you're talking about.
01:32:28.380 --> 01:32:28.580
So we don't have really any UX experts on
01:32:30.380 --> 01:32:30.800
board. So perhaps that would be welcome.
01:32:35.460 --> 01:32:35.960
But then again, how do you even fit the EMAX
01:32:38.880 --> 01:32:39.280
paradigm into what is typically taught and
01:32:40.840 --> 01:32:41.120
discussed in UX? I mean,
01:32:43.220 --> 01:32:43.380
maybe there is a way. I'm sure there are
01:32:45.640 --> 01:32:45.920
general principles and a lot that we could
01:32:47.880 --> 01:32:48.380
learn, But then there is also like this,
01:32:52.240 --> 01:32:52.440
we have to stay true to what Emacs is to some
01:32:53.940 --> 01:32:54.400
extent and what does that look like
01:32:56.320 --> 01:32:56.580
concretely. There are discussions to be had
01:32:58.620 --> 01:32:59.120
for sure, but we would definitely benefit
01:33:02.900 --> 01:33:03.400
from that type of specific input.
01:33:04.360 --> 01:33:04.480
[Speaker 3]: Well, I
01:33:06.940 --> 01:33:07.240
[Speaker 5]: mean, like a simple example today is I looked
01:33:09.720 --> 01:33:09.900
at the conference guidelines I always stay in
01:33:13.160 --> 01:33:13.420
dark mode and it said well use light mode for
01:33:16.220 --> 01:33:16.420
your presentation so okay I'll switch to
01:33:19.280 --> 01:33:19.480
light mode let me load a theme so I go into
01:33:21.280 --> 01:33:21.780
all the default themes and,
01:33:23.900 --> 01:33:24.400
you know, start going through the light ones
01:33:28.080 --> 01:33:28.580
and then I check all the faces and,
01:33:31.120 --> 01:33:31.620
you know, there are at least 3 to 5 faces
01:33:35.160 --> 01:33:35.600
that have nearly invisible text as a result
01:33:38.480 --> 01:33:38.980
of the background highlighting on them.
01:33:40.080 --> 01:33:40.460
And I'm like, you know,
01:33:43.380 --> 01:33:43.680
so there's low hanging fruit like that where
01:33:46.840 --> 01:33:47.020
people would deal with the structure of the
01:33:49.400 --> 01:33:49.900
menus, the actual faces,
01:33:53.120 --> 01:33:53.620
the themes, that don't have to do anything
01:33:57.840 --> 01:33:58.060
affecting core Emacs except make the
01:33:59.960 --> 01:34:00.460
presentation much better.
01:34:03.380 --> 01:34:03.640
[Speaker 7]: Yeah, definitely. If people want to send such
01:34:06.160 --> 01:34:06.660
polishing patches for various aspects,
01:34:09.280 --> 01:34:09.520
I spent some time making a new help screen.
01:34:10.520 --> 01:34:10.960
I don't know if you noticed,
01:34:12.740 --> 01:34:13.040
I don't know how many people press Control H,
01:34:14.160 --> 01:34:14.660
Control H on their keyboards,
01:34:17.540 --> 01:34:17.720
But it's like with new sections and it's
01:34:18.480 --> 01:34:18.980
sorted a little bit better.
01:34:20.500 --> 01:34:20.640
It didn't take much. I mean,
01:34:21.660 --> 01:34:22.060
it took a time obviously,
01:34:23.940 --> 01:34:24.440
but it's not like it required some fantastic
01:34:28.140 --> 01:34:28.260
technical knowledge or deep expertise in
01:34:29.200 --> 01:34:29.700
Emacs Lisp to do that.
01:34:31.480 --> 01:34:31.980
It's Basically anyone can do stuff like that.
01:34:34.200 --> 01:34:34.340
So definitely if you're interested in doing
01:34:37.440 --> 01:34:37.680
that type of work, start discussing with us.
01:34:41.040 --> 01:34:41.440
Let's talk about what we can do and get doing
01:34:41.820 --> 01:34:42.320
it, really.
01:34:44.960 --> 01:34:45.140
[Speaker 4]: Yeah, this is exactly in line with your
01:34:45.800 --> 01:34:46.240
presentation from yesterday,
01:34:47.720 --> 01:34:47.920
Stefan, as well, because you were just
01:34:50.160 --> 01:34:50.320
inviting people who are not contributing to
01:34:51.380 --> 01:34:51.740
the core of Emacs to do so.
01:34:53.200 --> 01:34:53.360
You were talking to package developer on
01:34:55.120 --> 01:34:55.440
MailPub, but you were also talking just about
01:34:58.200 --> 01:34:58.380
the average Joe or Jane just doing their own
01:34:59.580 --> 01:35:00.080
things or encountering a problem.
01:35:01.120 --> 01:35:01.280
Now, yes, we talked about,
01:35:02.800 --> 01:35:02.960
oh, you need to build master and all this,
01:35:03.920 --> 01:35:04.420
but at the end of the day,
01:35:06.680 --> 01:35:06.960
low-hanging fruits like the ones Bob just
01:35:09.840 --> 01:35:10.120
described. If everyone does this at the end,
01:35:11.280 --> 01:35:11.780
you end up with something that is extremely
01:35:13.520 --> 01:35:13.620
polished. Perhaps you do not need to have a
01:35:14.900 --> 01:35:15.140
UX specialist to tell you that,
01:35:18.220 --> 01:35:18.340
oh, those 2 colors are actually very close to
01:35:21.220 --> 01:35:21.600
1 another. I think it's kind of a discussion
01:35:23.580 --> 01:35:24.020
about same defaults as well that you had
01:35:25.080 --> 01:35:25.580
yesterday. Ultimately,
01:35:27.340 --> 01:35:27.600
we do not need... Yes,
01:35:28.780 --> 01:35:29.040
we need more programmers in the world.
01:35:30.480 --> 01:35:30.980
We want more people to use Emacs.
01:35:33.740 --> 01:35:34.240
But you don't know. Like,
01:35:36.220 --> 01:35:36.500
is it going to be someone in computer science
01:35:38.420 --> 01:35:38.620
that's going to be the next giant on whose
01:35:39.580 --> 01:35:39.880
shoulders we're going to stand?
01:35:41.003 --> 01:35:41.010
[Speaker 3]: computer science? Is it going to be someone
01:35:41.066 --> 01:35:41.074
in computer science that's going to be the
01:35:41.082 --> 01:35:41.090
next giant
01:35:41.137 --> 01:35:41.145
[Speaker 1]: on whose shoulders we're going to stand?
01:35:41.184 --> 01:35:41.192
Is it someone who did not
01:35:41.192 --> 01:35:41.200
[Speaker 4]: Is it someone who did not study study
01:35:42.660 --> 01:35:42.980
computer science? Is it going to be someone
01:35:44.060 --> 01:35:44.560
who did something completely different?
01:35:46.960 --> 01:35:47.120
We do not know the prototypical user of
01:35:49.280 --> 01:35:49.640
Emacs. We have some idea about the fact that
01:35:51.760 --> 01:35:51.940
they might be using you know,
01:35:52.580 --> 01:35:53.080
Emacs for their programming,
01:35:55.560 --> 01:35:55.680
but more and more, and as is evidenced by the
01:35:56.420 --> 01:35:56.920
talks we received with EmacsConf,
01:36:01.020 --> 01:36:01.360
it's just people doing writing or taking
01:36:01.920 --> 01:36:02.420
notes for their classes.
01:36:06.340 --> 01:36:06.540
So it's really interesting to see how and to
01:36:09.400 --> 01:36:09.480
explore for us how we can give back to the
01:36:11.180 --> 01:36:11.600
core of Emacs in a way that is mutually
01:36:12.360 --> 01:36:12.700
constructive because again,
01:36:14.440 --> 01:36:14.940
to go back to the philosophy or the political
01:36:17.400 --> 01:36:17.640
agenda that we have is for more people to use
01:36:19.700 --> 01:36:20.200
software that is not the liberties.
01:36:20.500 --> 01:36:21.000
Exactly.
01:36:24.140 --> 01:36:24.280
[Speaker 3]: So right. Yeah. I mean,
01:36:25.840 --> 01:36:26.100
that's a good spot for me to come right back
01:36:27.380 --> 01:36:27.720
in. And that's exactly where I do.
01:36:30.200 --> 01:36:30.420
Right. Because that's that's what it's all
01:36:33.040 --> 01:36:33.540
about. In the In terms of a tool user,
01:36:36.600 --> 01:36:37.100
you know, the evolution of using tools as,
01:36:38.620 --> 01:36:39.120
you know, these creatures have fought,
01:36:42.820 --> 01:36:43.220
Emacs is fire. Emacs is the ability to learn
01:36:45.920 --> 01:36:46.320
languages, the ability to manipulate other
01:36:48.140 --> 01:36:48.640
tools. I mean, it's almost like,
01:36:50.680 --> 01:36:51.140
you know, God Emperor of Dune level,
01:36:53.720 --> 01:36:54.140
you know, some Frank Herbert type of powers
01:36:56.480 --> 01:36:56.680
that you have over your computer and you are
01:36:58.460 --> 01:36:58.740
not required to understand how all those
01:37:02.440 --> 01:37:02.940
things work. So from a support standpoint
01:37:04.540 --> 01:37:04.840
that puts us in a challenging position,
01:37:06.300 --> 01:37:06.720
right? I spend a lot of time on Pound Emacs
01:37:07.760 --> 01:37:08.040
and the questions that go by there,
01:37:09.840 --> 01:37:09.960
I feel bad for people that feel like they
01:37:12.600 --> 01:37:12.720
have to answer every question that goes by in
01:37:14.060 --> 01:37:14.500
the channel because no 1 could.
01:37:16.640 --> 01:37:17.080
No 1 can give an intelligent answer to the,
01:37:18.040 --> 01:37:18.540
you know, everything from,
01:37:21.260 --> 01:37:21.440
Hey, how do I change my default font on this
01:37:23.520 --> 01:37:24.020
operating system? You've never heard of to,
01:37:26.140 --> 01:37:26.480
you know, how do you know this list code?
01:37:28.040 --> 01:37:28.340
That's 40 lines long doesn't work.
01:37:30.040 --> 01:37:30.260
And I think it was a recent change that was
01:37:31.720 --> 01:37:32.220
made to the P case macro.
01:37:39.480 --> 01:37:39.980
Do you agree? Right? And as deep as that,
01:37:42.740 --> 01:37:43.240
well is, if you turn it 90 degrees,
01:37:45.040 --> 01:37:45.200
the Emacs is that kind of tool to the
01:37:46.080 --> 01:37:46.400
operating system level.
01:37:48.800 --> 01:37:49.280
It's letting me walk across to other systems,
01:37:51.360 --> 01:37:51.780
multi-hop, become the super user,
01:37:55.120 --> 01:37:55.620
right? And, you know, the just the power,
01:37:57.600 --> 01:37:58.020
the amplification of power there,
01:38:02.320 --> 01:38:02.820
it's like the lever combined with the magnet,
01:38:08.140 --> 01:38:08.640
etc, etc. I mean, just,
01:38:14.760 --> 01:38:14.960
yeah, I don't know. So I guess where we kind
01:38:16.260 --> 01:38:16.640
of jump off, where that gets stuck,
01:38:18.580 --> 01:38:18.740
right, is trying to change something like the
01:38:19.760 --> 01:38:20.260
defaults in the user experience.
01:38:22.740 --> 01:38:23.240
So I imagine, you know,
01:38:26.580 --> 01:38:26.920
we don't get 1 great idea about user
01:38:28.020 --> 01:38:28.520
experience, we'll get 3,
01:38:30.240 --> 01:38:30.480
right? And then Once again,
01:38:32.980 --> 01:38:33.400
we have to send our brave developers off to
01:38:36.220 --> 01:38:36.440
build 1 to 3 patches, some of which won't see
01:38:41.040 --> 01:38:41.140
the light of day. I think that's where the
01:38:41.920 --> 01:38:42.420
breakthrough is needed.
01:38:46.680 --> 01:38:47.180
Another evolution in the packaging thought,
01:38:48.620 --> 01:38:49.120
or maybe it's not packaging.
01:38:50.920 --> 01:38:51.380
Maybe it's the compilation step.
01:38:52.800 --> 01:38:53.220
Maybe it's the distribution step.
01:38:56.120 --> 01:38:56.280
Maybe we want the Debians of the world to
01:38:59.220 --> 01:38:59.540
deliver Emacs as 2 different pieces now.
01:39:03.540 --> 01:39:03.700
And there's a UX piece that we want you to
01:39:05.280 --> 01:39:05.780
package each 1 that you package,
01:39:09.060 --> 01:39:09.240
each 1 per window manager that you support or
01:39:11.380 --> 01:39:11.660
at the intersection of each window manager
01:39:12.940 --> 01:39:13.300
and display manager you port.
01:39:15.200 --> 01:39:15.300
And the other one's just the server and you
01:39:17.040 --> 01:39:17.280
don't even have to package that if I'm only
01:39:19.680 --> 01:39:20.020
offering the CLI or there's a you know like
01:39:21.960 --> 01:39:22.280
I'm making all this up and I can't code a
01:39:23.760 --> 01:39:24.260
single thing like what I just said,
01:39:26.920 --> 01:39:27.420
but I think that there's a technical
01:39:31.640 --> 01:39:32.140
opportunity. Pretty high level for technical
01:39:35.020 --> 01:39:35.520
there of just thinking about a way to accept
01:39:40.560 --> 01:39:40.680
contributions of experience with maybe a
01:39:43.780 --> 01:39:44.280
little less rigor and a little less ground
01:39:44.900 --> 01:39:45.400
into the marble.
01:39:50.400 --> 01:39:50.800
[Speaker 5]: Yeah it makes me think of somebody at work
01:39:54.220 --> 01:39:54.340
just brought up pair programming and he's in
01:39:58.080 --> 01:39:58.580
love with it. He wants to pair up and do it,
01:40:01.120 --> 01:40:01.620
which is not true of all programmers.
01:40:05.800 --> 01:40:06.300
But I said, okay, so you spearhead that.
01:40:10.680 --> 01:40:10.900
If we, I think it is a very high barrier to
01:40:13.580 --> 01:40:13.780
get your patches in because of course they
01:40:15.420 --> 01:40:15.860
need to meet the quality standard of Emacs.
01:40:20.800 --> 01:40:21.300
So if people who are doing day-to-day
01:40:24.200 --> 01:40:24.700
understand that process and can do it well,
01:40:28.200 --> 01:40:28.540
could work with some of the people who can't
01:40:30.040 --> 01:40:30.540
quite contribute at that level,
01:40:35.020 --> 01:40:35.240
but have ideas that are on the level that
01:40:39.780 --> 01:40:40.280
should go in, pairing them up could really
01:40:41.420 --> 01:40:41.920
move a lot of that forward.
01:40:46.000 --> 01:40:46.500
Like Lars, I don't know what his,
01:40:50.000 --> 01:40:50.500
I get the feeling maybe he's retired.
01:40:54.960 --> 01:40:55.380
So, you know, maybe he has some time,
01:40:58.300 --> 01:40:58.640
you know, and he's really good at going back
01:41:00.320 --> 01:41:00.480
in and saying, you know,
01:41:02.400 --> 01:41:02.480
these areas haven't gotten attention in a
01:41:05.660 --> 01:41:05.900
while, so I'm going to go kill some bugs and
01:41:08.160 --> 01:41:08.660
look at them and fix them up.
01:41:13.640 --> 01:41:13.840
So I would think he would be good to do that
01:41:15.340 --> 01:41:15.480
with someone. But you know,
01:41:22.400 --> 01:41:22.740
Again, I've got years of code that would just
01:41:25.320 --> 01:41:25.760
require somebody to work through it to update
01:41:28.340 --> 01:41:28.660
to the latest code base and diff against it.
01:41:30.080 --> 01:41:30.480
But it does things like,
01:41:32.960 --> 01:41:33.420
I mean, like if anybody used RMAIL anymore,
01:41:36.200 --> 01:41:36.700
I made the summary mode of RMAIL exactly
01:41:40.080 --> 01:41:40.580
compatible key-wise with the main buffer,
01:41:43.140 --> 01:41:43.260
which it never was, and fixed a number of
01:41:46.120 --> 01:41:46.620
other features. Dured made operations
01:41:49.340 --> 01:41:49.480
reversible, where you mark something and you
01:41:51.420 --> 01:41:51.920
unmark it, and you can go up and down.
01:41:53.160 --> 01:41:53.480
And there are all these little
01:41:56.260 --> 01:41:56.760
incompatibilities that kind of add up across
01:42:00.120 --> 01:42:00.620
time, and they never seem to get addressed.
01:42:06.180 --> 01:42:06.480
We could just fix them and people would start
01:42:09.400 --> 01:42:09.640
to say, oh, this is smoother and they are
01:42:12.580 --> 01:42:12.820
getting more of that experience because it
01:42:15.060 --> 01:42:15.560
feels like the systems maybe 80,
01:42:20.740 --> 01:42:21.240
85% of the way there in a lot of thoughtful
01:42:26.040 --> 01:42:26.200
design. But that last 15% could be the
01:42:29.640 --> 01:42:30.100
difference between an iPhone and an Android
01:42:32.260 --> 01:42:32.760
phone of usability-wise.
01:42:38.720 --> 01:42:38.940
So that's a thought. That's a
01:42:41.100 --> 01:42:41.240
[Speaker 3]: brilliant idea, and it probably can be
01:42:42.840 --> 01:42:43.340
applied far wider than emacs.
01:42:46.060 --> 01:42:46.320
That's something that that FSF should
01:42:48.480 --> 01:42:48.980
consider suggesting across,
01:42:49.920 --> 01:42:50.420
you know, GNU packages,
01:42:54.280 --> 01:42:54.600
for example, like a matchmaking project seems
01:42:56.520 --> 01:42:56.880
like something that FSF community teams
01:43:04.020 --> 01:43:04.110
should think about. Yeah,
01:43:04.360 --> 01:43:04.520
I was going
01:43:04.920 --> 01:43:05.420
[Speaker 1]: That's so... to say also,
01:43:08.080 --> 01:43:08.140
I noticed that the name Debian came up a
01:43:09.840 --> 01:43:10.260
while ago and now we were talking about
01:43:14.540 --> 01:43:15.040
programming and such and Mentoring maybe and
01:43:17.960 --> 01:43:18.320
Debian has this service or part of their site
01:43:19.600 --> 01:43:20.100
or community called Mentors.
01:43:22.120 --> 01:43:22.620
They have a website, mentors.debian.net,
01:43:26.920 --> 01:43:27.100
where the idea is that people who want to get
01:43:28.100 --> 01:43:28.480
into contributing to Debian,
01:43:29.580 --> 01:43:30.080
for example, to package things,
01:43:33.200 --> 01:43:33.480
but obviously don't have upload rights right
01:43:35.720 --> 01:43:36.000
away. This is where they can go to,
01:43:38.460 --> 01:43:38.760
and this is separate from their mailing list
01:43:42.340 --> 01:43:42.580
or bug trackers. They can basically build
01:43:44.760 --> 01:43:45.260
their changed packages and upload them here,
01:43:48.220 --> 01:43:48.480
and then Debian developers who have commit or
01:43:51.380 --> 01:43:51.620
upload rights to the Debian archive can go
01:43:55.960 --> 01:43:56.120
and review and give them feedback or ask them
01:43:57.620 --> 01:43:58.120
to change something or if it's good,
01:44:01.620 --> 01:44:01.920
then just easily upload the package right
01:44:04.200 --> 01:44:04.440
from there. And I wonder if it might make
01:44:07.760 --> 01:44:08.000
sense to have something kind of like that in
01:44:10.360 --> 01:44:10.840
like the context of Emacs or the GNU project
01:44:13.360 --> 01:44:13.660
as a whole, where we have like some kind of
01:44:15.520 --> 01:44:16.020
a, like loosely defined mentoring thing,
01:44:18.840 --> 01:44:19.120
where we could pair up people who are more
01:44:20.500 --> 01:44:21.000
experienced, who, for example,
01:44:22.540 --> 01:44:22.740
have commit rights in the Emacs core
01:44:27.080 --> 01:44:27.240
repository to match them up with someone who
01:44:29.080 --> 01:44:29.260
is just making your very first patches or
01:44:31.640 --> 01:44:31.960
contributions to Emacs or whatever other GNU
01:44:34.000 --> 01:44:34.200
package. Just some food for thought,
01:44:38.040 --> 01:44:38.540
[Speaker 5]: Yeah, sounds good.
01:44:44.340 --> 01:44:44.600
[Speaker 1]: I guess. Yeah, and then I guess 1 feature of
01:44:47.360 --> 01:44:47.860
such a system which would be nice is that it,
01:44:49.200 --> 01:44:49.340
at least in terms of, you know,
01:44:50.380 --> 01:44:50.580
the mentors that Debbie and that,
01:44:52.200 --> 01:44:52.700
that it has a web UI, which,
01:44:56.040 --> 01:44:56.200
is nice because mailing lists might be
01:44:58.140 --> 01:44:58.380
intimidating for someone who is just getting
01:44:59.340 --> 01:44:59.840
started, like in these communities.
01:45:03.960 --> 01:45:04.200
Or, you know, just making patches like that,
01:45:05.440 --> 01:45:05.940
or just have a series of concrete
01:45:08.100 --> 01:45:08.320
instructions. Like with mentors at
01:45:11.100 --> 01:45:11.200
Devian.net, I feel like you can't go wrong in
01:45:13.820 --> 01:45:14.240
terms of finding the steps of figuring out
01:45:16.260 --> 01:45:16.500
what you need to do to put together some
01:45:19.040 --> 01:45:19.240
change. Which I think the same idea could
01:45:20.280 --> 01:45:20.740
apply to Emacs, for example,
01:45:20.860 --> 01:45:21.360
as well.
01:45:24.560 --> 01:45:24.960
[Speaker 7]: I think this is a good point about lowering
01:45:27.440 --> 01:45:27.620
barriers, and how email is a barrier to
01:45:28.860 --> 01:45:29.240
people. I mean, so on the 1 hand,
01:45:31.100 --> 01:45:31.320
you have us guys on Emacs level,
01:45:32.860 --> 01:45:33.360
we're very used to the email workflow.
01:45:35.140 --> 01:45:35.500
Like we're not just using it for fun.
01:45:37.040 --> 01:45:37.160
You know what I mean? Like this is a
01:45:38.320 --> 01:45:38.820
workhorse. It really is.
01:45:41.400 --> 01:45:41.840
And it's tried, it's battled,
01:45:42.900 --> 01:45:43.300
tested. It has some quirks,
01:45:45.140 --> 01:45:45.340
but we know them extremely well on the other
01:45:48.060 --> 01:45:48.380
hand. So, but still we want more people
01:45:50.700 --> 01:45:50.880
involved, right? And we realized that,
01:45:52.760 --> 01:45:52.960
you know, times are changing as well.
01:45:54.720 --> 01:45:54.900
And people are more used to doing stuff from
01:45:55.640 --> 01:45:56.140
the web browser, perhaps.
01:46:00.040 --> 01:46:00.320
So we do want to move to a forge,
01:46:01.920 --> 01:46:02.420
or at least start looking into that.
01:46:03.560 --> 01:46:04.060
But there are some obstacles.
01:46:06.060 --> 01:46:06.280
So we are looking for volunteers to do that
01:46:07.360 --> 01:46:07.580
work. I'm not just saying it,
01:46:08.640 --> 01:46:09.140
like we are very serious.
01:46:11.660 --> 01:46:11.760
I'm very seriously asking people in the
01:46:12.520 --> 01:46:13.020
community to consider,
01:46:14.920 --> 01:46:15.280
hey, could you dedicate some time?
01:46:18.660 --> 01:46:18.900
I mean, it will take some dedication for sure
01:46:20.600 --> 01:46:20.820
it will take some time and it will take some
01:46:23.040 --> 01:46:23.300
describe probably even you know Be prepared
01:46:24.760 --> 01:46:25.260
to be frustrated at times right,
01:46:26.980 --> 01:46:27.180
but if you're serious about doing that type
01:46:28.040 --> 01:46:28.260
of work, okay now
01:46:32.520 --> 01:46:32.900
[Speaker 3]: I believe you Well, I'm just I'm just teasing
01:46:35.900 --> 01:46:36.140
but but but yes exactly any I mean it's it's
01:46:38.560 --> 01:46:39.060
not even a joke right Any serious undertaking
01:46:41.420 --> 01:46:41.920
having to do with any free software project,
01:46:45.300 --> 01:46:45.600
just because we are open to the entire world
01:46:47.760 --> 01:46:48.160
and we pride ourselves on trying to take
01:46:50.020 --> 01:46:50.460
seriously all input. And if it's a logical
01:46:51.940 --> 01:46:52.040
argument, then we'll go ahead and take the
01:46:53.000 --> 01:46:53.200
time to combat with you,
01:46:54.960 --> 01:46:55.180
even though the maintainer has 300 other
01:46:57.260 --> 01:46:57.760
things to do. Like, man,
01:46:58.280 --> 01:46:58.740
this
01:47:00.020 --> 01:47:00.280
[Speaker 7]: is just the way it is,
01:47:02.840 --> 01:47:03.160
right? It just, It's not like Emacs is way
01:47:06.960 --> 01:47:07.460
harder to change than any other project of
01:47:08.680 --> 01:47:09.180
its longevity and size.
01:47:10.800 --> 01:47:11.100
It's just these things take time.
01:47:13.420 --> 01:47:13.920
Try getting a change into Debian.
01:47:15.060 --> 01:47:15.460
That's an uphill battle.
01:47:16.960 --> 01:47:17.460
I don't even know where to start with that.
01:47:19.540 --> 01:47:20.040
That's huge, right? And I have tremendous
01:47:21.640 --> 01:47:21.820
respect for the people doing that type of
01:47:22.760 --> 01:47:23.260
work because it takes dedication,
01:47:26.280 --> 01:47:26.440
it takes effort. So we really need someone to
01:47:27.180 --> 01:47:27.600
step up from the community,
01:47:29.760 --> 01:47:30.060
I think, to be a champion for something like
01:47:33.160 --> 01:47:33.600
this and work together with us on Emacs Devil
01:47:37.800 --> 01:47:38.200
and off Emacs Devil, probably with me and Eli
01:47:40.320 --> 01:47:40.600
and perhaps some other people that could be
01:47:41.820 --> 01:47:42.280
in the mail thread, and we could coordinate
01:47:44.620 --> 01:47:44.960
this type of work. I would be super excited
01:47:46.560 --> 01:47:47.060
if someone wanted to get the ball rolling.
01:47:48.480 --> 01:47:48.980
I can't do everything.
01:47:51.100 --> 01:47:51.340
I wish I could. Like, I thought about it.
01:47:52.840 --> 01:47:53.000
Should I just put everything to the side and
01:47:53.860 --> 01:47:54.000
do this? But then, I mean,
01:47:54.800 --> 01:47:55.080
there are some, there are other
01:47:56.040 --> 01:47:56.400
responsibilities as well.
01:47:57.740 --> 01:47:58.040
So we need someone to step up.
01:47:58.520 --> 01:47:59.020
We need help here.
01:48:03.220 --> 01:48:03.460
[Speaker 3]: you're gonna speak. I was totally gonna pick
01:48:04.120 --> 01:48:04.620
on you. Go ahead.
01:48:05.540 --> 01:48:05.820
[Speaker 1]: Yeah, so. Oh, good, Thanks,
01:48:06.540 --> 01:48:06.860
yeah, I was just gonna say,
01:48:08.460 --> 01:48:08.960
yeah, I echo Stefan's sentiments.
01:48:11.680 --> 01:48:11.960
And that, yeah, in terms of like maybe
01:48:14.020 --> 01:48:14.080
experimenting with a different Forge or a
01:48:15.280 --> 01:48:15.600
better Forge and like,
01:48:16.124 --> 01:48:16.296
you know, supplementing Savannah.
01:48:16.640 --> 01:48:17.140
And supplementing Savannah.
01:48:20.860 --> 01:48:20.920
I actually did some initial work a couple of
01:48:23.240 --> 01:48:23.740
months ago to get a SourceFed instance
01:48:24.860 --> 01:48:25.360
installed for the new project.
01:48:28.440 --> 01:48:28.660
And I've done some work on and off,
01:48:29.340 --> 01:48:29.760
but then life happens,
01:48:32.140 --> 01:48:32.640
especially from September onwards.
01:48:35.240 --> 01:48:35.500
But even from earlier in the year,
01:48:36.460 --> 01:48:36.960
the project has been semi-dormant,
01:48:38.740 --> 01:48:39.240
but I have been meaning to get to that.
01:48:42.740 --> 01:48:42.900
So I'm like 1 such person who's interested in
01:48:44.760 --> 01:48:44.960
that type of work and driving it forward and
01:48:47.640 --> 01:48:47.880
I would love you know if anyone's and anyone
01:48:50.820 --> 01:48:50.980
else has the kind of time and energy and the
01:48:52.760 --> 01:48:53.260
interest to help with something like that.
01:48:55.280 --> 01:48:55.780
Yes, please reach out to all of us,
01:48:56.880 --> 01:48:57.380
to Emacs core developers,
01:48:58.100 --> 01:48:58.600
of course, and to myself.
01:49:01.840 --> 01:49:02.340
This is something that could be very useful,
01:49:04.960 --> 01:49:05.460
not just for GNU Emacs and Emacs developers,
01:49:09.760 --> 01:49:10.240
but also for any other GNU package as well.
01:49:13.040 --> 01:49:13.480
So yeah, that's 1 area of potential
01:49:15.660 --> 01:49:16.060
contribution and 1 thing that we sort of,
01:49:17.860 --> 01:49:18.340
I guess, regularly meet with the FSF
01:49:20.140 --> 01:49:20.640
sysadmins to discuss these kinds of projects
01:49:22.120 --> 01:49:22.620
and things as Corwin would know.
01:49:24.520 --> 01:49:24.720
[Speaker 3]: Yeah, that's kind of, I mean,
01:49:26.280 --> 01:49:26.420
you knew exactly where I was going to,
01:49:27.960 --> 01:49:28.420
and I'm glad that you volunteered yourself
01:49:30.040 --> 01:49:30.540
personally because that's the best choice.
01:49:32.320 --> 01:49:32.820
If you're hearing this and you're thinking,
01:49:35.760 --> 01:49:36.260
you know, maybe I should do some sysop stuff,
01:49:38.200 --> 01:49:38.700
literally reach out to Amin.
01:49:41.040 --> 01:49:41.420
And because it's complicated,
01:49:43.040 --> 01:49:43.320
there are a lot of projects to volunteer for.
01:49:44.120 --> 01:49:44.620
They're all very worthy.
01:49:48.760 --> 01:49:49.020
And it's sort of political to figure out what
01:49:52.760 --> 01:49:53.000
we're gonna try to change for whom first to
01:49:55.940 --> 01:49:56.260
demonstrate we can do all the things we wanna
01:49:58.320 --> 01:49:58.440
do to make it better without losing all the
01:50:00.340 --> 01:50:00.540
things that are important about how it is
01:50:04.040 --> 01:50:04.480
today. And we'll do it in a measured way like
01:50:06.500 --> 01:50:06.760
everybody's just like room full of rocking
01:50:09.640 --> 01:50:09.780
chairs everybody's got a long tail it's a
01:50:12.340 --> 01:50:12.620
hard project but you will do something that
01:50:15.380 --> 01:50:15.540
just a lot like as a Savannah hacker which I
01:50:17.920 --> 01:50:18.240
am with Amin So that's how I know about his
01:50:20.080 --> 01:50:20.340
work on that project. We worked together on
01:50:22.300 --> 01:50:22.800
the Savannah Forge. I'm aware of his work
01:50:26.660 --> 01:50:26.980
piloting SourceHut recently and just with a
01:50:29.020 --> 01:50:29.240
working group there to look at the next
01:50:30.540 --> 01:50:31.040
generation of forges for GNU.
01:50:34.160 --> 01:50:34.340
Emacs of course as a GNU package could go do
01:50:36.540 --> 01:50:36.820
its own thing. FFS would most likely give
01:50:38.360 --> 01:50:38.560
cash to go do its own thing,
01:50:39.720 --> 01:50:39.860
even if it didn't like it.
01:50:41.140 --> 01:50:41.520
We know, you know, as a,
01:50:42.800 --> 01:50:43.260
like if I put on, I'm not FSF,
01:50:44.260 --> 01:50:44.600
but if I put on that hat,
01:50:45.800 --> 01:50:46.300
I imagine that we must know.
01:50:50.020 --> 01:50:50.200
Emacs is a flagship thing that people in the
01:50:52.420 --> 01:50:52.800
real world depend on. If I get this ancient
01:50:55.320 --> 01:50:55.820
computer, I get a working Linux distribution
01:50:59.340 --> 01:50:59.500
and Emacs. Maybe it's not Microsoft Word as a
01:51:00.800 --> 01:51:01.300
word processor, but you guys,
01:51:03.080 --> 01:51:03.580
you can learn a language on it for sure,
01:51:05.600 --> 01:51:05.800
you know And you can do your homework on it
01:51:08.300 --> 01:51:08.680
and you know It's it makes your you can edit
01:51:10.580 --> 01:51:10.960
things and then you can edit your system
01:51:13.900 --> 01:51:14.340
files and teach yourself how to manage a GNU
01:51:17.860 --> 01:51:18.040
system and you can You know so Emacs is
01:51:19.540 --> 01:51:19.840
really powerful as a practical tool.
01:51:21.560 --> 01:51:21.720
Like I keep coming back to that point when I
01:51:25.040 --> 01:51:25.320
think about Emacs, like I really put it as
01:51:27.380 --> 01:51:27.880
like, it's an important tool on the like
01:51:31.780 --> 01:51:32.080
humans inventing tools level just because it
01:51:35.080 --> 01:51:35.280
lets me make this editor into whatever I need
01:51:37.580 --> 01:51:38.080
it to be to get my actual work done.
01:51:39.520 --> 01:51:39.860
Whether that's getting the length,
01:51:41.460 --> 01:51:41.600
maybe that's making the font big enough that
01:51:43.260 --> 01:51:43.380
I can see it, or making it easy enough to
01:51:44.760 --> 01:51:45.060
change from this font to that font,
01:51:45.920 --> 01:51:46.420
changing the background colors,
01:51:47.960 --> 01:51:48.460
like your basic vision,
01:51:49.960 --> 01:51:50.460
accessibility issues, right?
01:51:52.740 --> 01:51:53.120
All, you know, solved,
01:51:55.080 --> 01:51:55.320
I can bake that customization in and I can
01:51:56.320 --> 01:51:56.580
pretty much depend on,
01:51:57.900 --> 01:51:58.400
no matter what we change in Emacs,
01:51:59.760 --> 01:52:00.140
I'm gonna accept the new version,
01:52:01.920 --> 01:52:02.220
it's gonna be on the next computer I get,
01:52:03.840 --> 01:52:04.000
I'm going to install the package and my
01:52:05.920 --> 01:52:06.100
configuration that sets all that up will be
01:52:10.960 --> 01:52:11.100
there for me. Right? It's like back to
01:52:13.300 --> 01:52:13.780
Stefan's point, what, 6 and a half hours ago,
01:52:16.120 --> 01:52:16.620
I mean, you know, 20 minutes ago about
01:52:23.680 --> 01:52:24.180
just... Oh gosh, I lost it.
01:52:27.980 --> 01:52:28.260
Boy, I really thought I had handed that
01:52:29.020 --> 01:52:29.520
neatly back to you.
01:52:36.040 --> 01:52:36.220
[Speaker 1]: No problem, Yeah, I think we're in general in
01:52:36.220 --> 01:52:36.720
agreement.
01:52:41.980 --> 01:52:42.480
[Speaker 4]: If we are now in the realm of Concord,
01:52:44.800 --> 01:52:44.960
of harmony, and the realm of midnight in
01:52:47.560 --> 01:52:47.720
Europe, Should we bring this discussion to a
01:52:49.200 --> 01:52:49.460
close or we could go all night,
01:52:51.180 --> 01:52:51.500
but I'll need to explain to my employer why
01:52:52.720 --> 01:52:53.220
my eyes are barely open tomorrow.
01:52:56.600 --> 01:52:57.100
[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I think that's probably a good idea.
01:52:59.960 --> 01:53:00.460
I see some folks starting to slowly sign off.
01:53:02.740 --> 01:53:03.060
[Speaker 0]: Yeah, also, you know, Leo,
01:53:04.680 --> 01:53:05.180
you could leave and just miss out.
01:53:05.460 --> 01:53:05.960
What?
01:53:13.620 --> 01:53:13.820
[Speaker 7]: Hey, Sasha, can I say something like what an
01:53:15.880 --> 01:53:16.020
amazing job with everything you're doing in
01:53:16.960 --> 01:53:17.300
the community over the years?
01:53:18.820 --> 01:53:19.240
I'm so impressed with Emacs News.
01:53:22.020 --> 01:53:22.160
What a great resource to stay up to date in
01:53:24.720 --> 01:53:24.760
Emacs. Just really hats off to you for a
01:53:25.080 --> 01:53:25.580
whole lot.
01:53:26.680 --> 01:53:26.880
[Speaker 3]: Thank you
01:53:29.440 --> 01:53:29.700
[Speaker 0]: very much. It actually turned out to be quite
01:53:31.840 --> 01:53:32.220
timely that John Wheatley had suggested it
01:53:35.020 --> 01:53:35.140
back when he was maintainer because when I
01:53:36.980 --> 01:53:37.200
had the kiddo, I suddenly had 0 time to
01:53:38.000 --> 01:53:38.440
actually write new things.
01:53:39.560 --> 01:53:39.840
But reading things is fine.
01:53:41.820 --> 01:53:42.040
I can just speed read all the Reddit things
01:53:43.160 --> 01:53:43.660
and put the links together.
01:53:45.800 --> 01:53:46.300
So I'm very glad that Emacs news is helpful.
01:53:49.080 --> 01:53:49.580
[Speaker 7]: it really is, yeah.
01:53:55.380 --> 01:53:55.880
[Speaker 3]: It is, So, okay, now let's try to go for our
01:54:00.040 --> 01:54:00.480
closing thoughts here while Leo's still here.
01:54:01.740 --> 01:54:02.140
And then if we wanna keep rolling,
01:54:04.760 --> 01:54:05.260
even after Leo drops, we won't tell him,
01:54:06.420 --> 01:54:06.920
we'll tell him we're stuck.
01:54:12.380 --> 01:54:12.540
[Speaker 4]: I guess that was a beacon to me to perhaps go
01:54:14.140 --> 01:54:14.440
for the second close of the day I've already
01:54:18.080 --> 01:54:18.380
done it I can do it again But I will prove
01:54:19.300 --> 01:54:19.480
Sasha wrong this time.
01:54:21.020 --> 01:54:21.520
I will miss out if need be because really,
01:54:24.160 --> 01:54:24.660
I have been very impressed with the sleep
01:54:28.700 --> 01:54:29.120
record that you had and I am very envious
01:54:32.040 --> 01:54:32.220
right now of your past ability to sleep more
01:54:33.160 --> 01:54:33.380
than 9 hours per night.
01:54:35.440 --> 01:54:35.560
And I wish I would be able to go back to
01:54:37.300 --> 01:54:37.800
this. But anyway, folks,
01:54:38.560 --> 01:54:39.060
I'm going to drop out.
01:54:40.520 --> 01:54:40.680
People might hang out for a little while
01:54:42.360 --> 01:54:42.520
longer. Bear in mind that Sasha might get
01:54:44.480 --> 01:54:44.980
called at any point to go take care of Kido.
01:54:47.220 --> 01:54:47.720
So this might wrap up very fast afterwards.
01:54:49.780 --> 01:54:49.920
But at any rate, it was my pleasure to be the
01:54:51.420 --> 01:54:51.820
host today. Stefan, thank you for joining.
01:54:53.520 --> 01:54:54.020
Bob, thank you for joining and interacting
01:54:56.040 --> 01:54:56.320
with us and making this a little more
01:54:58.860 --> 01:54:59.020
interactive and more plural than just the
01:55:01.260 --> 01:55:01.760
co-organizers. And on that note,
01:55:03.640 --> 01:55:03.900
I will be leaving. So have a wonderful night,
01:55:05.860 --> 01:55:06.020
everyone. And we'll see you next year for the
01:55:06.740 --> 01:55:07.240
next edition, potentially.
01:55:09.560 --> 01:55:10.060
[Speaker 3]: Thank you, Leo. You're my hero.
01:55:11.580 --> 01:55:12.040
I take everything I said on mumble back.
01:55:12.280 --> 01:55:12.780
You're amazing.
01:55:14.840 --> 01:55:15.340
[Speaker 4]: bye everyone.
01:55:16.400 --> 01:55:16.680
[Speaker 1]: All right, Thank you all.
01:55:17.960 --> 01:55:18.220
Take care. Bye. I will
01:55:20.200 --> 01:55:20.580
[Speaker 6]: also say bye bye. I also need to go to bed.
01:55:22.200 --> 01:55:22.700
Thank you all for this cool conference and
01:55:24.920 --> 01:55:25.080
hopefully we're here through the year and at
01:55:25.900 --> 01:55:26.400
least in 1 year.
01:55:30.900 --> 01:55:31.400
[Speaker 3]: You've probably made the rest of the rest of
01:55:34.440 --> 01:55:34.700
the victorious. You really stepped up.
01:55:38.300 --> 01:55:38.800
[Speaker 5]: your contributions.
01:55:38.980 --> 01:55:39.220
[Speaker 3]: Thanks so much for Yeah,
01:55:40.580 --> 01:55:40.960
[Speaker 1]: thanks so much for being a part of it,
01:55:41.720 --> 01:55:42.100
specifically you, Floey,
01:55:43.480 --> 01:55:43.980
and just everyone. Thank you all.
01:55:48.180 --> 01:55:48.420
[Speaker 6]: Have a nice day or night and we'll hear each
01:55:48.740 --> 01:55:49.240
other. Bye!
01:55:51.220 --> 01:55:51.420
[Speaker 1]: See you. Okay, well,
01:55:51.880 --> 01:55:52.360
[Speaker 3]: Thanks, Zen. I'll go next.
01:55:53.800 --> 01:55:54.300
I'm the next newest, I think.
01:55:59.640 --> 01:56:00.140
Well, I want to say also,
01:56:01.800 --> 01:56:02.300
you know, Bob and Stefan,
01:56:03.660 --> 01:56:03.760
thank you so much for jumping in and
01:56:04.860 --> 01:56:05.360
participating in the closing remarks.
01:56:06.700 --> 01:56:07.200
I too think it's a lot of,
01:56:08.560 --> 01:56:08.960
like, it's fun to just,
01:56:10.760 --> 01:56:11.260
like, share the buzz after the convention.
01:56:13.260 --> 01:56:13.460
We've got all these millions of ideas and
01:56:16.120 --> 01:56:16.480
then to have a group, a little group think
01:56:18.960 --> 01:56:19.460
about what we're walking away from that with.
01:56:22.360 --> 01:56:22.540
What is the temperature of the fire in your
01:56:24.360 --> 01:56:24.860
belly? And it's just...
01:56:28.440 --> 01:56:28.740
I mean, this is 1 of the highlights of my
01:56:30.200 --> 01:56:30.700
year in a way that it's just...
01:56:31.780 --> 01:56:31.970
I don't think other people...
01:56:33.880 --> 01:56:34.120
I don't think I dare explain it to other
01:56:35.880 --> 01:56:36.020
people. I think my wife understands and I
01:56:40.600 --> 01:56:40.860
will do. So thank you very much for this
01:56:42.340 --> 01:56:42.840
conference and the opportunity to participate
01:56:45.540 --> 01:56:46.040
in it. You know, just the conversation,
01:56:48.540 --> 01:56:49.040
how vibrant the chat is on IRC,
01:56:52.080 --> 01:56:52.580
how the variety of talks,
01:56:54.140 --> 01:56:54.640
some of the talks that look like television
01:56:59.380 --> 01:56:59.540
content to me and others that look a lot like
01:57:03.840 --> 01:57:03.960
my talk. And working through your slides and
01:57:06.100 --> 01:57:06.280
doing it live and you know I appreciate that
01:57:10.240 --> 01:57:10.380
we make a place for all those levels and and
01:57:12.720 --> 01:57:13.220
show people how to improve our craft as well.
01:57:26.140 --> 01:57:26.460
I'm not actually dropping or going anywhere.
01:57:29.040 --> 01:57:29.220
I'll continue to talk about eMAX until I get
01:57:30.860 --> 01:57:31.000
the dinner time bell. I've probably got an
01:57:40.240 --> 01:57:40.580
hour here. I'll tell you what will happen
01:57:42.040 --> 01:57:42.160
though is I'm guaranteed to light a
01:57:43.780 --> 01:57:43.940
cigarette. You can already see me kind of
01:57:45.860 --> 01:57:46.160
hovering about my room because I'm trying to
01:57:47.440 --> 01:57:47.780
avoid like smoking on camera.
01:57:49.300 --> 01:57:49.540
I don't know where that came from.
01:57:52.360 --> 01:57:52.860
I'm giving it up in approximately 5 seconds.
01:57:58.980 --> 01:57:59.480
[Speaker 7]: Yeah I'm gonna hop off.
01:58:00.800 --> 01:58:01.300
It's possibly right here.
01:58:02.220 --> 01:58:02.720
I'll work tomorrow.
01:58:06.200 --> 01:58:06.380
[Speaker 3]: I took the next 2 days off.
01:58:07.320 --> 01:58:07.820
I'm actually going camping,
01:58:11.040 --> 01:58:11.280
Stefan. I know I've learned that this
01:58:12.800 --> 01:58:13.300
conference leaves me completely emotionally
01:58:16.360 --> 01:58:16.860
exhausted. I just like,
01:58:18.700 --> 01:58:19.140
I don't know, I watch all,
01:58:20.820 --> 01:58:21.320
I feel like I just connect with all the,
01:58:23.440 --> 01:58:23.640
like it's this time where I connect with all
01:58:25.260 --> 01:58:25.580
these people that spend as much time thinking
01:58:26.580 --> 01:58:27.080
about Emacs as I do.
01:58:31.480 --> 01:58:31.760
[Speaker 0]: All right, so maybe we should wrap up before
01:58:32.440 --> 01:58:32.940
you have like, you know,
01:58:35.380 --> 01:58:35.880
that overflow error and just...
01:58:38.000 --> 01:58:38.500
[Speaker 3]: In buster thrill, okay.
01:58:41.720 --> 01:58:41.980
Thank you
01:58:45.200 --> 01:58:45.440
[Speaker 0]: so much, everyone. Let us actually wrap up
01:58:47.360 --> 01:58:47.440
then. Everyone can find the recordings if you
01:58:48.640 --> 01:58:49.140
want to keep the conversation going.
01:58:51.900 --> 01:58:52.120
There are meetups, there are people's blog
01:58:54.240 --> 01:58:54.520
posts and video channels and mailing lists
01:58:55.320 --> 01:58:55.820
and all those other things.
01:58:58.820 --> 01:58:59.180
I often I list a lot of meetups in Emacs news
01:59:00.680 --> 01:59:01.080
so that's another great way to stay connected
01:59:02.560 --> 01:59:03.060
through the year and we hope to see everybody
01:59:04.740 --> 01:59:05.240
next year at EmacsConf 2024.
01:59:11.260 --> 01:59:11.420
[Speaker 4]: Thanks Sasha for the send off and goodbye to
01:59:16.740 --> 01:59:16.940
everyone. Oh Sasha I think you were muted but
01:59:18.340 --> 01:59:18.520
yes I was still there I assume that's what
01:59:21.220 --> 01:59:21.720
you just said. I lied.
01:59:23.680 --> 01:59:23.920
I was staying around like Corwin was.
01:59:25.440 --> 01:59:25.580
I just said goodbye, but then I wait in the
01:59:26.520 --> 01:59:27.020
bushes, waiting for the ambush.
01:59:29.340 --> 01:59:29.840
[Speaker 3]: Well I'm personally surprised,
01:59:32.780 --> 01:59:33.040
speaking for myself. I wouldn't have guessed
01:59:36.040 --> 01:59:36.340
that would happen. All right,
01:59:36.340 --> 01:59:36.580
[Speaker 4]: The perfect moment. well,
01:59:37.360 --> 01:59:37.680
I guess that's a wrap then.
01:59:39.060 --> 01:59:39.560
Thank you, everyone, and see you next year.
01:59:43.440 --> 01:59:43.740
[Speaker 3]: I thought we were clear like 10 minutes ago.
01:59:45.340 --> 01:59:45.840
Are we not? We are, right?
01:59:47.400 --> 01:59:47.780
We're definitely clear.
01:59:48.040 --> 01:59:48.220
[Speaker 5]: OK, I'm
01:59:49.240 --> 01:59:49.440
[Speaker 3]: hanging up now. Good night.
01:59:50.640 --> 01:59:51.140
It was wonderful to meet you.
01:59:51.900 --> 01:59:52.400
[Speaker 7]: Take care Corwin
01:59:56.520 --> 01:59:57.020
[Speaker 4]: Bye Stefan. Bye. Bye all
