WEBVTT
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I'm fine. So we can start, right?
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Yeah, sure. I mean, you pretty much know the drill.
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Everyone watching the show now already knows the drill. V
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idianus is going to read the questions. If you want to read
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the questions on your own, you can open up the pad.
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Otherwise, Vidianus will be reading the questions and
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answering them in line. And I'll be making jazz in the
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background whenever something doesn't work. So Vidianus,
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the floor is yours.
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Okay. So do you use flitting notes as well? Do you keep
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them in the org room? And flitting notes are a very
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interesting subject. In the initial draft of this talk, I
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wanted to include flitting notes as well, but it would take
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a bit too long. So I said, let's not do it.
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I'm going to add a link here to my .files in the section
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for flitting notes. But I can very quickly share my screen
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for a moment and show you something about it. So give me a
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moment.
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Yes, you can do this.
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Okay. So you see the screen now, I think?
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Yes, I can see it.
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So I have a key binding which opens my daily note. I have
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some notes from other talks in EmacsConf and talks that I'm
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going to miss due to the two tracks. Don't mind them. So I
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write, for example, flitting note.
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And I have a command down here which will automatically
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give it a to do value. So let's say, for example, I'm
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crossing it. It adds a tag to the current projects node,
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which is essentially a node I have for things I want to do
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right now.
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It makes it an org-rem node. And then I can write something
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here, blah, blah, blah. And if I go on org-rem node find,
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actually, I need to save it first. It will appear here.
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And then once I say it's done, it is not a node anymore. It
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is removed here. This allows me to archive things. I can
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stop the sharing now. This allows me to archive flitting
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notes.
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So I don't need -- because flitting notes are not something
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that needs to remain my shell custom. I want them for some
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point and then deleting them.
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And this is done with org-journal and not org-rem-dailys
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because with org-journal I can have this -- I make it a
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node and then I remove it from a node.
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While I don't think you can do that with org-rem-dailys,
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the code for all of this is in the section I pasted on the
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etherpad. And if you have any questions, you can email me.
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>> Okay. >> Sorry, just to specify, all the contact
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information will be available on the talk page. So be it
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the email to Vidianos, also the pads, the recording,
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everything will be available after the conference as soon
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as we have the bandwidth for this.
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So that's where you'll be able to find contact information.
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Okay. You can keep going, Vidianos. Sorry for the inter
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ruption.
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>> Okay. So the second question is if it works for PDFs
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only or Word and Excel or EPUB, websites, CWW and YouTube.
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So I'm not sure. Give me a moment to look at OrgNotor and
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see if it says -- because I said I didn't remember. Use it
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with PDFs typically.
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>> Yes. From the top of my mind, I think OrgNotor works
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with EPUB file via the package that is managed I think by
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-- was it by Wasamasa? I can't remember actually now. But
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at some point it was managed by Wasamasa.
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He was probably watching right now and probably yelling at
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me in the background. So I'll keep you posted on this. But
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yes, the OrgNotor allows you mostly to take notes on PDF
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via PDFView, but it also allows you to take notes on EPUB.
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And they're working relatively well.
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But as for the other -- yeah, go on, Vidianos.
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>> I opened OrgNotor and it says it also is compatible with
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DocView for Office, so Word, Excel and things like that.
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>> Yeah. And otherwise, if you really want to take notes on
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such documents, you can probably use either OrgConvert or
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Pandoc to generate a document that would be editable within
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OrgNotor. It shouldn't be too difficult to do so. And
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usually it's mostly PDFs when you're working on research
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stuff or stuff like this.
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Anyway, sorry for interrupting. This is a topic very dear
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to my heart as well because as you know, I have worked a
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little bit in OrgGram and OrgNotor especially.
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>> Yeah. So I think you should be able to do Word, Excel
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and EPUB. I don't think it works with websites and it
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definitely doesn't work with videos. Not sure if there's
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other solutions for those.
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>> I believe there is one. Sorry, I keep inserting myself
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into the discussion. This is a very interesting topic. I
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think Alfred Papa developed an Org package to capture a
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webpage. So it's like an OrgCapture, you know, Org protocol
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that allows you to capture stuff from your browser.
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It allows you to capture a page and basically Pandocs the
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results into an HTML, sorry, it Pandocs from HTML to an Org
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document with a structure and a hierarchy. And this way you
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can actually take notes on the documents and just have all
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the features you would expect in an Org document.
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>> I'll shut up now. This is your talk, not mine. If I
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really wanted to talk about this, I should have made a talk
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. Anyway, back to you.
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>> Okay. So next one. I used Take Notes on PDF with OrgNot
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er, but Zotero PDF Reader is also very nice. So, okay. Yeah,
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I have seen the Zotero PDF Reader. It does look nice as
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well, I would agree, but I have two problems with it.
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One, Emacs key bindings don't work, and two, it's not Emacs
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. Basically, I think it's nice, but I want to use things
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that are outside Emacs for as little as possible. And I use
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it there because I haven't found a way in Emacs to save the
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article somewhere and download the PDF automatically.
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I know there is DOI Utils, which was mentioned by RC a few
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moments ago as well, but it hasn't worked perfectly for me
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in the past when I tried it, so I use Zotero for that, but
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I wouldn't use it for the PDF Reader as well because I want
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to use it in Emacs.
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Next one. Thanks for saying that it was a great
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presentation. My thoughts on the future of Zelle Casten. I
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think Zelle Casten has a bright future, personally, because
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it is plain text. Plain text will never go away, basically.
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You will be able to use it forever, and also, Orgrom is
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open source with a very vibrant community, so that won't go
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away either anytime soon, I think. So, it probably has a
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future, if you mean it that way.
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And I think that, in general, it is a noting method that is
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very efficient. I have used it for university the past few
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years, and I have right now like 850 notes on it, and they
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will probably only keep increasing.
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So, I don't think it's going away. If you want to ask
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anything else, we can talk more about it.
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Actually, I do have something to add to this particular
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point, because on the topic of Zelle Casten and how useful
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it can be. Now, it's been a little while since Zelle Casten
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really started exploding. I think in 2020, right when COVID
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started, a lot of people started getting interested in Z
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elle Casten methods.
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And ever since, we have a lot of software that were
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released, including the ones we have in Orgrom. I'm going
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to use Orgrom because it's the one I'm most familiar with
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as a commentator, but we also have D-Notes by Prot and
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other solutions as well.
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And one thing that I'm currently working on, and a key area
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of interest for me, is how do we use the concept of Zelle
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Casten, a collection of notes. Generally, when you think of
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Zelle Casten, it's a really individual collection of notes,
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right?
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It's something that you have, it's the stuff that you find
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during your research, during the paper that you read. But
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how about trying to have a slipbox for a group of people,
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so that they could start sharing notes on research that
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they do.
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It wouldn't be the same thing as a personal slipbox, but
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you can think of it as the knowledge bank for a group of
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people, where they keep track of the concept that they use
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within their organization, the patterns that they like to
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use when they work together.
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So, we actually wanted to do a talk this year on some of
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those adjacent topics, but sadly, we were a little taken by
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time, and you'll have to wait for next year. But I will
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agree with you, Vidianos, there's a lot of very interesting
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stuff abound for Zelle Casten method, and especially Zelle
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Casten inside Emacs.
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All right, back to you now.
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Thanks for the additions, I like them as well, and I think
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that what you said about collaboration, it would be very
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interesting, really.
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Great.
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The only problem is having other people using the same
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methods with you.
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Sorry, Vidianos, I'm not sure if you asked me a question, I
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was at a health, whispering my ear in the background at the
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same time.
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I just said that I really like the idea that you said about
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collaboration.
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Yeah, because it is really something that is missing when
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you think about it. Like, the good thing about Emacs, and
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the philosophy of Emacs generally, is that we have
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different modes working together, and they do one thing, or
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multiple things, and they do it very well.
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We have org mode for editing structured documents, we have
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maggots to manage repositories, we have calc to do
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calculations with a polished notation and whatnot.
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It feels like we have a great tool for collaboration,
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editing a singular buffer, which is CRDT, which we've
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already talked about before.
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I'm not sure if we did have a presentation on Emacs about
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CRDT. I think, if you're more interested in this, go back
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to the talk I did last year with Joe Connelly and Noura El
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Hassan on Emacs Research Group.
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We did demonstrate what CRDT was.
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So, we have a very good tool for working on a buffer, and
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we have a very good way to take notes.
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Why not try to combine the two tools, like Emacs is so good
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at doing? We take one mode, we take another mode, we clash
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them together and we do something very interesting with
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them.
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Well, we should probably be doing something similar with
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note-taking, so that people can actually start building
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notes together.
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I think that would be a really key step in the future. But
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anyway, I think I'm repeating myself a little bit, and I
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don't want to say too much right now.
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You'll see it in the future, it's coming month or coming
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year, so you're not in a rush and flus.
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Okay, Vityan, it's back to you now.
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Okay, so how do you find a way to get a nice overview of
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multiple notes to rearrange them?
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Like, basically putting many small notes on another table
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and rearranging them.
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So, my initial idea when I tried to make Zettle Desk was to
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get as close as possible to this.
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Have a lot of small notes in my table and be able to
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rearrange them.
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Due to Org Mode being text, this is not exactly possible.
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But I don't know if this question was before the third demo
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or not.
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What I showed in that demo, I think, to an extent, showed
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what I do for rearranging.
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You add all the things you want on the Zelda scratch buffer
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, and then rearrange them however you want.
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So, that's as close as I have been able to get to that.
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It's not perfect, but I think it is alright for being text,
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which making it graphically would be hard, I think.
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And the next one seems to be a follow-up on that question.
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Yeah, it says it's difficult or impossible to do that. Yeah
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, I agree.
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Okay.
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So, this package that you say on the next one, on the next
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question, I will check this link out.
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It seems very interesting for writing your notes on a big
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canvas.
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I think it would definitely make sense for my workflow to
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use something like this, if it is what I have understood
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you mean it is.
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I would love to try it. And we'll get back to you.
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Whoever left that message, if you want to leave any contact
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information or talk to me, I would love to get back to you
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about this.
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Because it looks very interesting.
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Yes, so again, all the contact information will be
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available on the talk page.
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By the way, if you're worried about the lighting changes in
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my place, it's just that sometimes I have a lot of light in
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my face.
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And then, when I'm a little tired, I do rest like this.
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And it's very different, but it's still me. Don't worry
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about it.
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I'm not going to turn it off, because every time it's like
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a flashbang going into my eyes.
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So, if you want to talk to Vidyanos afterwards, maybe do
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not leave your coordinates right into the pad.
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Maybe get in touch with Vidyanos instead.
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Those ads are going to be public eventually, and even
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though we will be reviewing all the content within them,
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it means that they will be open to people for a while.
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So, maybe avoid putting personal information over there.
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But otherwise, you'll be able to connect after the
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conference relatively easily, and Vidyanos will be able to
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follow up.
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Or even just on the questions, whenever you have the time.
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But it might take one or two weeks for the speakers to get
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back to the questions you put into the pad.
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We will be asking them frequently.
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We do have this policy, as you know, with Emacs, of nudging
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speakers to do something.
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So, we will nudge speakers towards answering your questions
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, but it might take us about one or two weeks to get all the
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answers.
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I think we don't have any more questions currently.
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There is one more.
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Oh, there is one more. So, please take it.
00:15:26.000 --> 00:15:29.800
Can we use Zettelkasten for coding too, especially when
00:15:29.800 --> 00:15:32.000
using the IDs like Visual Studio and Excel?
00:15:32.000 --> 00:15:38.080
So, I can't say for sure if you can use it, because I'm not
00:15:38.080 --> 00:15:39.000
in coding.
00:15:39.000 --> 00:15:44.000
The only language I know the best for coding is Emacs Lisp.
00:15:44.000 --> 00:15:48.770
And the only other one I know is Matlab for doing
00:15:48.770 --> 00:15:54.000
calculations, for example, for things in university.
00:15:54.000 --> 00:15:59.000
But I think you should be able to do that.
00:15:59.000 --> 00:16:03.600
If you look for Zettelkasten for coding, you will probably
00:16:03.600 --> 00:16:06.000
find some resources for it.
00:16:06.000 --> 00:16:14.000
I don't think it breaks the Zettelkasten principles.
00:16:14.000 --> 00:16:21.000
You can make atomic nodes for coding concepts.
00:16:21.000 --> 00:16:24.000
So, it should work, I believe.
00:16:24.000 --> 00:16:26.000
Yeah, and I can actually confirm this.
00:16:26.000 --> 00:16:31.150
I did share with you before in one of the previous Q&A how
00:16:31.150 --> 00:16:33.390
we're taking notes on this little device right here to do
00:16:33.390 --> 00:16:34.000
lead code exercises.
00:16:34.000 --> 00:16:38.400
The thing about lead code exercises is that, well, lead
00:16:38.400 --> 00:16:40.000
code, sorry, let's be more vague about it.
00:16:40.000 --> 00:16:42.990
Lead code is a platform and not a free platform as well,
00:16:42.990 --> 00:16:44.000
and I'm not advertising them.
00:16:44.000 --> 00:16:46.700
But the concept of data structure and algorithm is really
00:16:46.700 --> 00:16:48.000
important to programming.
00:16:48.000 --> 00:16:53.260
And usually when you try to solve algorithmic problems, you
00:16:53.260 --> 00:16:58.000
rely on a number of patterns that have been developed by...
00:16:58.000 --> 00:17:01.260
Sorry, I get people telling me to my right here that, oh,
00:17:01.260 --> 00:17:02.000
the sim is going down.
00:17:02.000 --> 00:17:06.850
And so my stomach is falling into my body, just, oh, what
00:17:06.850 --> 00:17:08.000
happened?
00:17:08.000 --> 00:17:10.310
Anyway, going back to the point, we do rely on patterns and
00:17:10.310 --> 00:17:13.000
identification of patterns within a problem.
00:17:13.000 --> 00:17:17.130
So, as a result, it would be very much possible to create
00:17:17.130 --> 00:17:20.000
separate nodes for all these patterns.
00:17:20.000 --> 00:17:22.630
And you can have different exercises and say you have an
00:17:22.630 --> 00:17:25.000
exercise that is using two different things.
00:17:25.000 --> 00:17:29.000
It's using a tree pattern and it's using a depth search.
00:17:29.000 --> 00:17:31.640
If neither of those two words make any sense to you, do not
00:17:31.640 --> 00:17:35.100
worry and be grateful because this will haunt you at night
00:17:35.100 --> 00:17:36.000
otherwise.
00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:38.730
But it would be very, I think it would be a prime candidate
00:17:38.730 --> 00:17:42.000
really for atomization and linking within a Zettelkasten.
00:17:42.000 --> 00:17:44.780
Because it would make it so much easier to structure your
00:17:44.780 --> 00:17:47.730
knowledge in a way that is organic rather than hierarchical
00:17:47.730 --> 00:17:48.000
.
00:17:48.000 --> 00:17:52.030
So, yeah, this was a very good question and I'd be happy to
00:17:52.030 --> 00:17:56.390
encourage the asker to try it on their own and maybe make a
00:17:56.390 --> 00:17:58.000
presentation next year at the next EMACS Conf.
00:17:58.000 --> 00:18:01.210
Vidyanos, before we continue, I just want to give up the
00:18:01.210 --> 00:18:02.000
heads up.
00:18:02.000 --> 00:18:05.230
So, we have opened the room currently. If you want to join
00:18:05.230 --> 00:18:10.000
the room with Vidyanos, we have posted the link on ISC.
00:18:10.000 --> 00:18:12.400
And if you go to the talk page of Vidyanos talk, you will
00:18:12.400 --> 00:18:14.000
be able to join the room as well.
00:18:14.000 --> 00:18:16.650
We did have quite a number of questions. So, feel free to
00:18:16.650 --> 00:18:17.000
join.
00:18:17.000 --> 00:18:19.530
In about four minutes, we'll need to move on to the next
00:18:19.530 --> 00:18:20.000
talk.
00:18:20.000 --> 00:18:23.000
But, well, actually, I give you about three more minutes.
00:18:23.000 --> 00:18:26.000
Do we have any more questions on the pad, Vidyanos?
00:18:26.000 --> 00:18:29.000
On the pad, no. I'm looking on IRC.
00:18:29.000 --> 00:18:34.000
Someone says if Zeldas.dl will be available in Melpa.
00:18:34.000 --> 00:18:39.000
It is on Melpa right now. You can find it.
00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:44.390
Right. And you just have to -- sorry, my voice is getting
00:18:44.390 --> 00:18:45.000
raspier.
00:18:45.000 --> 00:18:47.680
It's only the first day of EMACS Conf. It's not even lunch
00:18:47.680 --> 00:18:49.000
and I'm already losing my voice.
00:18:49.000 --> 00:18:51.000
This is not booting well for the rest.
00:18:51.000 --> 00:18:54.100
But, yeah, you should be able to find it pretty easily by
00:18:54.100 --> 00:19:00.080
looking on doc.go for Melpa and space and zeldacaster.el,
00:19:00.080 --> 00:19:01.000
the name of the package.
00:19:01.000 --> 00:19:03.000
You'll be able to find it. And we can put it on the page.
00:19:03.000 --> 00:19:04.600
I'm pretty sure it's already on your talk page, Vidyanos,
00:19:04.600 --> 00:19:05.000
as well.
00:19:05.000 --> 00:19:07.000
Yeah, it is on the talk page.
00:19:07.000 --> 00:19:09.000
Yeah, you'll be able to find it really quickly.
00:19:09.000 --> 00:19:11.000
So we have about two more minutes.
00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:12.670
Did you see any other question that you'd like to answer as
00:19:12.670 --> 00:19:13.000
well?
00:19:13.000 --> 00:19:17.800
I'm scrolling on IRC since the talk started to see if there
00:19:17.800 --> 00:19:19.000
is anything else.
00:19:19.000 --> 00:19:21.000
I don't see anything else.
00:19:21.000 --> 00:19:28.000
If anyone has a room here, I would love to continue.
00:19:28.000 --> 00:19:33.000
If not, then I think we've already answered enough things.
00:19:33.000 --> 00:19:38.000
Sure, I would concur. You have covered a lot of ground.
00:19:38.000 --> 00:19:41.240
I am personally happy to be seeing so many talks about Zeld
00:19:41.240 --> 00:19:42.000
acaster.
00:19:42.000 --> 00:19:44.430
It feels like I was a little bit of a forerunner at EMACS
00:19:44.430 --> 00:19:46.000
Conf talking about Zeldacaster.
00:19:46.000 --> 00:19:48.450
And now, we are two years later and we're still talking
00:19:48.450 --> 00:19:49.000
about it.
00:19:49.000 --> 00:19:51.170
I know a lot of people are getting a little tired of
00:19:51.170 --> 00:19:53.000
hearing about Zeldacaster all the time.
00:19:53.000 --> 00:19:59.050
But if you part all the communication, if you focus on what
00:19:59.050 --> 00:20:00.000
it actually does,
00:20:00.000 --> 00:20:03.000
and I keep saying it's just notes and it's just links,
00:20:03.000 --> 00:20:05.000
it's actually quite amazing what you can do with it.
00:20:05.000 --> 00:20:07.000
It's just a mental model, really.
00:20:07.000 --> 00:20:11.690
So I would kind of use the, you know, sorry for the voxing
00:20:11.690 --> 00:20:12.000
here.
00:20:12.000 --> 00:20:16.460
But if you have been interested in Zeldacaster at some
00:20:16.460 --> 00:20:17.000
point,
00:20:17.000 --> 00:20:20.000
or if you are frustrated by all the talk about Zeldacaster,
00:20:20.000 --> 00:20:22.000
that seems to be kind of like a cult at some point,
00:20:22.000 --> 00:20:27.460
well, I would encourage you maybe to try, not necessarily
00:20:27.460 --> 00:20:28.000
try it for yourself,
00:20:28.000 --> 00:20:31.000
but try to understand really the simple stuff behind it.
00:20:31.000 --> 00:20:34.340
Because honestly, there's nothing very revolutionary about
00:20:34.340 --> 00:20:36.000
this note-taking method.
00:20:36.000 --> 00:20:39.370
It's just that it used to be done with paper, and now it's
00:20:39.370 --> 00:20:40.000
done with computers,
00:20:40.000 --> 00:20:42.000
and it makes it a little more easier.
00:20:42.000 --> 00:20:45.500
Personally, what I find the most helpful in this type of
00:20:45.500 --> 00:20:48.000
note-taking is how organic everything feels.
00:20:48.000 --> 00:20:50.650
You do not need to be thinking about the structure from the
00:20:50.650 --> 00:20:51.000
get-go,
00:20:51.000 --> 00:20:53.000
and this is extremely freeing.
00:20:53.000 --> 00:20:56.000
OK, Vidyanos, we are about out of time.
00:20:56.000 --> 00:20:58.240
Thank you so much for taking the time to answer the
00:20:58.240 --> 00:20:59.000
questions.
00:20:59.000 --> 00:21:01.690
We will be in touch in the future, and we'll be looking
00:21:01.690 --> 00:21:04.000
forward to having more presentations about Zeldacaster,
00:21:04.000 --> 00:21:08.000
and perhaps maybe one by you in the future.
00:21:08.000 --> 00:21:11.000
So, well, thank you so much.
00:21:11.000 --> 00:21:13.470
And, Vidyanos, I don't see anyone in the room, so feel free
00:21:13.470 --> 00:21:15.000
to leave the room after we're done.
00:21:15.000 --> 00:21:18.410
So in about one minute, we're going to go with the next
00:21:18.410 --> 00:21:19.000
talk.
00:21:19.000 --> 00:21:23.000
We might go a little bit quiet until the top of the minute.
00:21:23.000 --> 00:21:26.000
I need to drink, and I need to rest my voice.
00:21:26.000 --> 00:21:28.000
But in one minute, we'll be starting the next talk.
00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:30.000
Vidyanos, thank you so much, and see you next time.
00:21:30.000 --> 00:21:32.000
Bye.
00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:35.000
(Break)
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(Break)
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(Break)
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(Break)
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(Break)
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(Break)
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(Break)
