0:00:00.640,0:00:05.680
okay so the first question is what is an
0:00:04.160,0:00:08.800
example of a car
0:00:05.680,0:00:12.160
a package currently in
0:00:08.800,0:00:13.759
a non-elpa repo that does not work well
0:00:12.160,0:00:18.000
with Emacs
0:00:13.759,0:00:19.760
well one of them is s dot el
0:00:18.000,0:00:21.920
and this is what made me aware that
0:00:19.760,0:00:25.760
there was an issue here that caused
0:00:21.920,0:00:29.439
problems well s.e.l
0:00:25.760,0:00:31.279
is a beautifully written package
0:00:29.439,0:00:32.800
that appears to be very useful for
0:00:31.279,0:00:36.320
people
0:00:32.800,0:00:39.520
and there's just one thing wrong with it
0:00:36.320,0:00:43.680
it gobbled up the name space
0:00:39.520,0:00:47.039
of symbols starting with s dash
0:00:43.680,0:00:49.440
and I was shocked to discover that
0:00:47.039,0:00:51.760
somebody who had not coordinated with
0:00:49.440,0:00:55.360
the Emacs developers at all
0:00:51.760,0:00:56.800
had implemented a package using such a
0:00:55.360,0:00:59.760
short prefix which
0:00:56.800,0:01:01.520
isn't the right way to do things oh by
0:00:59.760,0:01:04.000
the way the questions have moved off the
0:01:01.520,0:01:05.360
screen this is no good I can continue
0:01:04.000,0:01:08.880
answering this one
0:01:05.360,0:01:12.159
but I'll be stuck when this one is over
0:01:08.880,0:01:15.040
anyway so uh
0:01:12.159,0:01:16.560
and I was told that there was nothing I
0:01:15.040,0:01:19.920
could do about it
0:01:16.560,0:01:22.960
that so many users packages were using
0:01:19.920,0:01:24.240
swl and thus essentially using that
0:01:22.960,0:01:28.080
definition
0:01:24.240,0:01:31.360
of the s dash star symbols
0:01:28.080,0:01:34.720
that any attempt to use them
0:01:31.360,0:01:38.079
publicly or privately for anything else
0:01:34.720,0:01:41.680
would lead to horrible problems
0:01:38.079,0:01:45.520
and I don't like that
0:01:41.680,0:01:49.040
I decided I wanted to do something
0:01:45.520,0:01:52.320
a so that that wouldn't happen again
0:01:49.040,0:01:55.119
and b to make it unhappen
0:01:52.320,0:01:57.840
in that case well the way to make it
0:01:55.119,0:02:02.240
unhappen in that case is with a new
0:01:57.840,0:02:05.360
symbol renaming feature the idea is
0:02:02.240,0:02:09.119
you rename that file to something else
0:02:05.360,0:02:11.520
and then you define an s.e.l that
0:02:09.119,0:02:13.040
sets up symbol renaming and then loads
0:02:11.520,0:02:16.080
the something else
0:02:13.040,0:02:16.400
so it actually runs the same code it
0:02:16.080,0:02:20.879
just
0:02:16.400,0:02:23.920
doesn't globally define the symbols
0:02:20.879,0:02:26.160
s dash whatever but they
0:02:23.920,0:02:28.319
appear to work for the programs that
0:02:26.160,0:02:32.640
explicitly
0:02:28.319,0:02:36.000
require that require sdl
0:02:32.640,0:02:38.080
or the s package so this gets the same
0:02:36.000,0:02:40.239
behavior for all the programs that are
0:02:38.080,0:02:43.360
using that library
0:02:40.239,0:02:47.840
and uh doesn't interfere
0:02:43.360,0:02:50.319
with the global name space at all
0:02:47.840,0:02:52.080
however to do that we need to have a
0:02:50.319,0:02:55.360
package
0:02:52.080,0:02:57.760
s.e.l that isn't the same
0:02:55.360,0:02:58.640
totally a short file that's totally
0:02:57.760,0:03:01.440
different
0:02:58.640,0:03:02.840
plus we've got to have the file that
0:03:01.440,0:03:06.239
normally is called
0:03:02.840,0:03:10.319
s.e.l available but
0:03:06.239,0:03:13.040
uh under another name well
0:03:10.319,0:03:14.800
how are we going to do that we can't put
0:03:13.040,0:03:18.879
this into
0:03:14.800,0:03:21.920
into Emacs in a nice way that
0:03:18.879,0:03:24.560
won't make the uh won't make the
0:03:21.920,0:03:26.480
maintainer angry
0:03:24.560,0:03:28.159
of the mate to the developer of that
0:03:26.480,0:03:32.080
package
0:03:28.159,0:03:34.640
but we can do it with non-gnu
0:03:32.080,0:03:36.239
elpa we can put those two things into
0:03:34.640,0:03:38.720
non-gnu elpa
0:03:36.239,0:03:40.720
without any difficulty and this shows
0:03:38.720,0:03:43.280
one of the advantages
0:03:40.720,0:03:45.440
we can put files we can put packages
0:03:43.280,0:03:48.400
into non-gdu elpa
0:03:45.440,0:03:49.599
and make changes in them now in general
0:03:48.400,0:03:51.760
we wouldn't
0:03:49.599,0:03:54.319
go to the effort of making big changes
0:03:51.760,0:03:56.400
that's just too much to do
0:03:54.319,0:03:58.000
unless something's really important but
0:03:56.400,0:04:01.120
small changes
0:03:58.000,0:04:04.319
that help things fit in are
0:04:01.120,0:04:07.120
easy to do and
0:04:04.319,0:04:10.319
uh okay oh so basically the recording
0:04:07.120,0:04:13.439
didn't get anything until now I just saw
0:04:10.319,0:04:14.319
a note pop up this session is now being
0:04:13.439,0:04:16.320
recorded
0:04:14.319,0:04:18.160
I hope it's been recorded all along it
0:04:16.320,0:04:21.280
would be a shame to
0:04:18.160,0:04:27.120
spoil oh good okay
0:04:21.280,0:04:30.479
okay good so uh that's one of the issues
0:04:27.120,0:04:33.840
uh does non-gnu eopa already exist
0:04:30.479,0:04:35.360
or is this a sort of quote plan I don't
0:04:33.840,0:04:37.919
know why you have to
0:04:35.360,0:04:40.400
put scare quotes around the word plan
0:04:37.919,0:04:44.160
it's sort of in between
0:04:40.400,0:04:45.440
it's the creation of it is started you
0:04:44.160,0:04:48.160
will find
0:04:45.440,0:04:51.520
that there is an archive that it's
0:04:48.160,0:04:54.880
possible to download packages from
0:04:51.520,0:04:57.120
and there is a repository to put them in
0:04:54.880,0:04:58.560
but that's not the way it's really
0:04:57.120,0:05:02.800
supposed to work
0:04:58.560,0:05:04.320
uh this is not supposed to be like the
0:05:02.800,0:05:07.280
new elpa where there's
0:05:04.320,0:05:09.039
one repo for all the packages and thus
0:05:07.280,0:05:11.199
anyone who wants to edit any of them
0:05:09.039,0:05:11.680
anyone that we want to have edit any of
0:05:11.199,0:05:13.280
them
0:05:11.680,0:05:15.440
has got to have access to the whole
0:05:13.280,0:05:18.560
thing for one thing
0:05:15.440,0:05:21.840
some packages will make
0:05:18.560,0:05:25.120
an arrangement with the developers
0:05:21.840,0:05:27.039
and they'll assure us that they will
0:05:25.120,0:05:28.400
do things as things should be done and
0:05:27.039,0:05:32.080
then we'll
0:05:28.400,0:05:35.919
have their repo copied automatically
0:05:32.080,0:05:38.160
or in other cases say
0:05:35.919,0:05:40.160
copied manually with a little checking
0:05:38.160,0:05:43.199
every so often
0:05:40.160,0:05:46.400
uh and then uh in
0:05:43.199,0:05:49.440
other cases we'll need to have our own
0:05:46.400,0:05:52.479
repo for a particular package
0:05:49.440,0:05:54.400
but we shouldn't have a single repo for
0:05:52.479,0:05:55.919
all the packages we should have a repo
0:05:54.400,0:05:57.840
for each package
0:05:55.919,0:06:01.120
so that the people working on that can
0:05:57.840,0:06:04.319
get access to modify it
0:06:01.120,0:06:06.080
this has to be finished setting up
0:06:04.319,0:06:07.680
and we're still working out the
0:06:06.080,0:06:11.039
procedures
0:06:07.680,0:06:14.400
for instance for making the arrangements
0:06:11.039,0:06:15.440
with the developers of a package so that
0:06:14.400,0:06:18.840
we can
0:06:15.440,0:06:20.400
we hope uh entrust its development to
0:06:18.840,0:06:24.240
them and
0:06:20.400,0:06:24.240
rely on them directly
0:06:24.800,0:06:29.520
and there may be more that needs to be
0:06:26.560,0:06:29.520
worked on
0:06:29.840,0:06:35.840
oh there's so many questions
0:06:36.639,0:06:40.880
well I hope you the third question is
0:06:39.280,0:06:43.680
what are the benefits
0:06:40.880,0:06:46.240
I hope that people now see the benefits
0:06:43.680,0:06:49.599
I've described them
0:06:46.240,0:06:51.440
uh next question is it possible to work
0:06:49.599,0:06:54.720
with the melba team
0:06:51.440,0:06:59.440
to integrate that into Emacs
0:06:54.720,0:07:03.759
no because the goal doesn't make sense
0:06:59.440,0:07:07.199
melba the way it's done does not belong
0:07:03.759,0:07:08.560
inside Emacs in any sense well first of
0:07:07.199,0:07:11.280
all it can't literally be
0:07:08.560,0:07:13.280
inside Emacs we don't have copyright
0:07:11.280,0:07:18.160
assignments for that code
0:07:13.280,0:07:20.560
and to get it would be unfeasible
0:07:18.160,0:07:21.520
but we're not asking for copyright
0:07:20.560,0:07:25.280
assignments for
0:07:21.520,0:07:27.599
non-gnu elpa so that's
0:07:25.280,0:07:31.440
you might wonder could melpa be merged
0:07:27.599,0:07:35.039
with non-venue elpa the problem is
0:07:31.440,0:07:38.240
melpa doesn't modify the packages
0:07:35.039,0:07:41.360
it's just a place to find releases of
0:07:38.240,0:07:44.800
packages wherever they happen to be
0:07:41.360,0:07:48.319
and they put packages in with
0:07:44.800,0:07:51.520
only a little bit of checking
0:07:48.319,0:07:51.919
so no we there are a lot of packages
0:07:51.520,0:07:55.280
that are
0:07:51.919,0:07:58.479
in melpa that we'd like to get into
0:07:55.280,0:08:00.800
non-canoe elpa I don't know the names of
0:07:58.479,0:08:04.160
most of them but I expect most of them
0:08:00.800,0:08:07.680
would be fine to have but they've got to
0:08:04.160,0:08:07.680
be looked at one by one
0:08:08.560,0:08:14.479
there are some rules for non-glpa
0:08:12.000,0:08:18.000
and the only way to check them is to
0:08:14.479,0:08:22.160
check them on one package at a time
0:08:18.000,0:08:25.039
and that's going to take effort
0:08:22.160,0:08:26.080
now with the people who work on melba
0:08:25.039,0:08:29.440
want to get involved
0:08:26.080,0:08:32.800
of this that would be great
0:08:29.440,0:08:33.919
I haven't tried asking them first we've
0:08:32.800,0:08:37.599
got to get this thing
0:08:33.919,0:08:40.479
set up I doubt they would want to
0:08:37.599,0:08:42.959
but if they said yes that would be
0:08:40.479,0:08:42.959
wonderful
0:08:44.159,0:08:55.839
uh any thoughts of packages being
0:08:48.399,0:08:55.839
added I'm afraid
0:09:00.959,0:09:03.360
um
0:09:05.440,0:09:08.959
I'm afraid any thoughts of packages
0:09:07.200,0:09:11.040
being added as
0:09:08.959,0:09:13.120
some url I don't know anything about but
0:09:11.040,0:09:16.800
it talks about open source
0:09:13.120,0:09:17.680
which means I'm very unlikely to have
0:09:16.800,0:09:20.959
much
0:09:17.680,0:09:24.080
in common with whatever they say about
0:09:20.959,0:09:27.760
either licensing or
0:09:24.080,0:09:29.959
what's right and wrong uh
0:09:27.760,0:09:31.920
but this seems to be something about
0:09:29.959,0:09:35.680
disregarding licenses
0:09:31.920,0:09:39.360
altogether well that is basically
0:09:35.680,0:09:43.360
asking to lose there are reasons
0:09:39.360,0:09:45.600
why we developed gnu licenses to release
0:09:43.360,0:09:48.320
software why we have criteria
0:09:45.600,0:09:49.519
for which licenses make a program free
0:09:48.320,0:09:52.640
software
0:09:49.519,0:09:55.519
if the program doesn't carry a license
0:09:52.640,0:09:56.080
or if it carries a non-free license that
0:09:55.519,0:09:59.760
program
0:09:56.080,0:10:02.839
is not free software now you can
0:09:59.760,0:10:04.800
maybe get away with disregarding that
0:10:02.839,0:10:07.600
fact uh unless
0:10:04.800,0:10:08.959
somebody an author or publisher stops
0:10:07.600,0:10:11.360
you
0:10:08.959,0:10:12.399
but we're not going to take we're not
0:10:11.360,0:10:15.200
basically going to
0:10:12.399,0:10:16.399
disregard the question of whether the
0:10:15.200,0:10:19.040
software we
0:10:16.399,0:10:21.360
recommend to people really is free
0:10:19.040,0:10:24.560
software or not
0:10:21.360,0:10:27.519
that's basically uh
0:10:24.560,0:10:29.120
blindfolding yourself to the legal
0:10:27.519,0:10:30.480
situation of the software you're
0:10:29.120,0:10:33.519
distributing
0:10:30.480,0:10:35.920
it's a terrible idea uh if they
0:10:33.519,0:10:38.640
disregard our licenses they will hear
0:10:35.920,0:10:40.959
from us about it
0:10:38.640,0:10:42.720
and if you want to contribute to the
0:10:40.959,0:10:46.320
free world
0:10:42.720,0:10:48.640
put free licenses on your code
0:10:46.320,0:10:50.000
and choose good ones to get this
0:10:48.640,0:10:53.440
information
0:10:50.000,0:10:57.120
look at gnu.org slash licensing
0:10:53.440,0:10:59.839
in particular slash licenses
0:10:57.120,0:11:01.120
and one page that input that's important
0:10:59.839,0:11:05.040
is license
0:11:01.120,0:11:07.360
dash recommendations.html
0:11:05.040,0:11:09.279
that's where we advise you on what
0:11:07.360,0:11:11.360
license we would recommend you use
0:11:09.279,0:11:15.600
depending on the circumstances
0:11:11.360,0:11:20.160
there's also license dash list dot html
0:11:15.600,0:11:22.160
which describes a lot of licenses and
0:11:20.160,0:11:25.040
says which ones are free
0:11:22.160,0:11:26.160
which ones are compatible with the new
0:11:25.040,0:11:28.640
gpl
0:11:26.160,0:11:31.519
it's really important to use only gpl
0:11:28.640,0:11:34.320
compatible licenses
0:11:31.519,0:11:35.519
so that the various programs can be
0:11:34.320,0:11:40.480
combined together
0:11:35.519,0:11:40.480
or linked and
0:11:40.720,0:11:44.240
you can also get other information about
0:11:43.120,0:11:47.040
gnu licenses
0:11:44.240,0:11:49.680
and the reasons why they are written the
0:11:47.040,0:11:49.680
way they are
0:11:55.279,0:11:59.760
oh sorry I don't see the next question
0:12:03.200,0:12:07.519
oh why do I insist on using per and
0:12:05.600,0:12:11.680
purrs
0:12:07.519,0:12:14.959
uh I'm not happy with using
0:12:11.680,0:12:17.440
they which is a plural pronoun with a
0:12:14.959,0:12:20.480
singular antecedent
0:12:17.440,0:12:24.800
it's bad because it causes
0:12:20.480,0:12:28.639
confusion that is completely gratuitous
0:12:24.800,0:12:33.200
many sentences become a lot of work
0:12:28.639,0:12:36.480
to parse and understand if you
0:12:33.200,0:12:39.839
add that ambiguity that source of him of
0:12:36.480,0:12:42.720
regular ambiguity now
0:12:39.839,0:12:43.680
I do not accept the demands of other
0:12:42.720,0:12:47.519
people
0:12:43.680,0:12:50.800
in regard to changing my grammar
0:12:47.519,0:12:54.240
you can try to convince me but
0:12:50.800,0:12:55.440
no one is entitled to give me orders
0:12:54.240,0:12:58.880
about that
0:12:55.440,0:13:03.200
or state their desires and expect
0:12:58.880,0:13:06.560
obedience not for me and not from you
0:13:03.200,0:13:09.839
or anyone we are all
0:13:06.560,0:13:13.200
equally entitled to decide
0:13:09.839,0:13:18.000
how we will speak and how we won't speak
0:13:13.200,0:13:22.880
now I've spelled out all of these points
0:13:18.000,0:13:26.079
in a file called stolman.org
0:13:22.880,0:13:26.079
articles slash
0:13:30.120,0:13:33.760
genderneutrality.html
0:13:31.600,0:13:36.000
of course this is not a gnu project
0:13:33.760,0:13:40.800
policy
0:13:36.000,0:13:40.800
it's my own personal ideas on the
0:13:46.839,0:13:49.839
subject
0:13:53.920,0:14:01.040
if any of you feels offended
0:13:57.120,0:14:04.320
by my referring to you with a singular
0:14:01.040,0:14:07.680
gender neutral pronoun feel free
0:14:04.320,0:14:10.720
to ex contact me privately
0:14:07.680,0:14:14.000
and explain to me your reasons
0:14:10.720,0:14:16.639
I will pay attention to them I'll
0:14:14.000,0:14:18.399
think about them assuming that they're
0:14:16.639,0:14:24.079
not something I've already
0:14:18.399,0:14:27.760
considered and decided to dismiss before
0:14:24.079,0:14:30.240
but you must not speak to me as if I had
0:14:27.760,0:14:30.800
no business not obeying you because
0:14:30.240,0:14:34.320
that's
0:14:30.800,0:14:37.360
rude and it is not likely to convince me
0:14:34.320,0:14:37.360
to change my mind
0:14:40.720,0:14:48.320
I believe it is not actually
0:14:44.240,0:14:50.560
of stating offense to anyone
0:14:48.320,0:14:52.880
and the fact that somebody disagrees
0:14:50.560,0:14:59.839
with me does not mean I'm wrong
0:14:52.880,0:14:59.839
but I always can be wrong
0:15:00.720,0:15:05.680
when you wrote that you could add a
0:15:02.560,0:15:07.120
package to non your new elpa
0:15:05.680,0:15:09.199
are you implying that you would add
0:15:07.120,0:15:11.120
packages with or without package
0:15:09.199,0:15:15.279
maintainers knowledge
0:15:11.120,0:15:18.000
of course the packages we would
0:15:15.279,0:15:19.519
we would distribute in this way are free
0:15:18.000,0:15:21.920
software
0:15:19.519,0:15:22.720
everyone is entitled to redistribute
0:15:21.920,0:15:26.560
them
0:15:22.720,0:15:26.959
and everyone is also entitled to modify
0:15:26.560,0:15:29.199
them
0:15:26.959,0:15:31.680
and redistribute them that's part of the
0:15:29.199,0:15:35.040
meaning of free software
0:15:31.680,0:15:38.320
I have been unable to understand
0:15:35.040,0:15:42.560
how there came to be an idea
0:15:38.320,0:15:45.600
that those who redistribute packages
0:15:42.560,0:15:49.360
have some idea to be mere
0:15:45.600,0:15:54.480
some obligation to be near mirrors
0:15:49.360,0:15:58.560
and not modify things themselves
0:15:54.480,0:16:01.440
well if a package is
0:15:58.560,0:16:03.440
being maintained by developers who are
0:16:01.440,0:16:06.240
cooperating with us
0:16:03.440,0:16:07.360
we'll normally just leave it to them
0:16:06.240,0:16:10.079
after all
0:16:07.360,0:16:10.399
we have lots of other work to do they
0:16:10.079,0:16:14.000
are
0:16:10.399,0:16:15.600
clearly experts on the packages they've
0:16:14.000,0:16:18.399
developed
0:16:15.600,0:16:22.800
let's leave it to them if they make that
0:16:18.399,0:16:26.480
sort of arrangement with us but
0:16:22.800,0:16:29.120
that's up to them we can't insist that
0:16:26.480,0:16:30.720
anyone make an arrangement with us
0:16:29.120,0:16:33.279
but since those programs are free
0:16:30.720,0:16:36.639
software anyone c is
0:16:33.279,0:16:38.880
free to redistribute them and we will do
0:16:36.639,0:16:38.880
that
0:16:41.839,0:16:51.839
have you ever used vi or vim or
0:16:45.519,0:16:51.839
evil mode no
0:16:52.079,0:16:56.800
are there any plans to implement
0:16:53.920,0:17:00.720
security considerations in non-gnu
0:16:56.800,0:17:02.959
elpa uh we probably
0:17:00.720,0:17:04.959
should and this will have to be
0:17:02.959,0:17:08.559
implemented
0:17:04.959,0:17:12.000
but at the moment
0:17:08.559,0:17:13.280
developer Emacs maintainers will copy
0:17:12.000,0:17:18.160
packages
0:17:13.280,0:17:20.160
into it and so as long as they are
0:17:18.160,0:17:22.480
verifying the packages and getting the
0:17:20.160,0:17:25.199
packages from the right place
0:17:22.480,0:17:25.919
that will take care of the security once
0:17:25.199,0:17:30.160
there is
0:17:25.919,0:17:33.200
when with automatic copying in
0:17:30.160,0:17:35.200
will have to do something to
0:17:33.200,0:17:38.480
make sure that we're fetching the
0:17:35.200,0:17:38.480
packages securely
0:17:40.320,0:17:44.000
and uh some of you might be interested
0:17:43.360,0:17:46.080
in
0:17:44.000,0:17:48.000
helping to design and implement this
0:17:46.080,0:17:52.559
system
0:17:48.000,0:17:56.720
uh what distro do I use
0:17:52.559,0:17:58.000
uh well which distro of gnu slash linux
0:17:56.720,0:18:01.840
do I use
0:17:58.000,0:18:01.840
I use tree scale
0:18:03.520,0:18:10.080
I haven't tried most of the free distros
0:18:07.200,0:18:11.120
and the reason is it's not crucial that
0:18:10.080,0:18:13.520
I do so
0:18:11.120,0:18:14.799
we don't need me to rate the various
0:18:13.520,0:18:17.520
free distros on
0:18:14.799,0:18:20.000
practical questions because anyone can
0:18:17.520,0:18:24.400
do that as well as I can
0:18:20.000,0:18:27.760
and so you can tell people what
0:18:24.400,0:18:29.360
you think of using them for me what's
0:18:27.760,0:18:32.400
important to me
0:18:29.360,0:18:34.160
is to inform people of the difference
0:18:32.400,0:18:36.799
between the free distros
0:18:34.160,0:18:38.799
and the non-free distros making sure
0:18:36.799,0:18:42.000
people are aware that if you
0:18:38.799,0:18:45.600
install a non-free gnu slash linux
0:18:42.000,0:18:46.720
distro you'll get a free operating
0:18:45.600,0:18:49.919
system with
0:18:46.720,0:18:54.160
non-free stuff in various quantities
0:18:49.919,0:18:56.240
added thus you will not reach freedom
0:18:54.160,0:18:57.520
although you you'll make a lot of
0:18:56.240,0:19:01.039
progress compared
0:18:57.520,0:19:03.919
with using for instance windows or
0:19:01.039,0:19:06.160
mac os or whatever vicious thing it
0:19:03.919,0:19:08.559
might be
0:19:06.160,0:19:09.760
I'd like to I'd like to people to be
0:19:08.559,0:19:12.799
aware
0:19:09.760,0:19:14.720
of this next step towards
0:19:12.799,0:19:16.160
getting freedom for yourself and your
0:19:14.720,0:19:24.480
own computing
0:19:16.160,0:19:26.799
so that you can do that if you want to
0:19:24.480,0:19:26.799
uh
0:19:29.039,0:19:32.799
so who gets to make the final decision
0:19:31.360,0:19:36.640
regarding
0:19:32.799,0:19:39.200
non-gnu elpa the
0:19:36.640,0:19:40.960
emax maintainers are going to be in
0:19:39.200,0:19:44.480
charge of this
0:19:40.960,0:19:47.760
but because it's not
0:19:44.480,0:19:51.360
just a technical decision it has with
0:19:47.760,0:19:54.960
only technical consequences
0:19:51.360,0:19:57.760
but in general unless there's some
0:19:54.960,0:20:00.720
severe problem with the package we will
0:19:57.760,0:20:00.720
want to put it in
0:20:03.600,0:20:07.440
and I expect most packages won't have a
0:20:06.400,0:20:09.919
problem
0:20:07.440,0:20:11.679
and we can just put them in when we get
0:20:09.919,0:20:15.919
to them
0:20:11.679,0:20:17.600
won't the elpa link to non-free sites
0:20:15.919,0:20:20.799
like github
0:20:17.600,0:20:24.320
uh it's a mistake to talk about a
0:20:20.799,0:20:24.320
non-free site
0:20:25.760,0:20:32.159
because a site is not a program
0:20:29.120,0:20:32.960
a program is either free or non-free and
0:20:32.159,0:20:36.480
we have
0:20:32.960,0:20:39.679
clearly stated criteria for that in
0:20:36.480,0:20:43.039
gnu.org philosophy slash
0:20:39.679,0:20:45.360
free dash sw.html we have the free
0:20:43.039,0:20:51.360
software definition
0:20:45.360,0:20:51.360
but a site well their programs on it
0:20:51.919,0:20:55.120
but it doesn't make sense to ask whether
0:20:54.000,0:20:58.000
the site is
0:20:55.120,0:20:58.880
free or not it's too simplistic a
0:20:58.000,0:21:02.000
question
0:20:58.880,0:21:05.679
to have a meaningful answer now one
0:21:02.000,0:21:08.799
thing you can ask about is does the site
0:21:05.679,0:21:11.760
send javascript to the user's machine
0:21:08.799,0:21:12.960
to the user's browser and if so is that
0:21:11.760,0:21:17.120
javascript
0:21:12.960,0:21:19.919
non-free well github
0:21:17.120,0:21:21.200
does send non-free javascript for some
0:21:19.919,0:21:24.240
operations
0:21:21.200,0:21:26.159
so we consider it unsatisfactory as a
0:21:24.240,0:21:29.600
repository
0:21:26.159,0:21:33.360
but uh that doesn't mean linking to it
0:21:29.600,0:21:34.720
for is a bad thing to do regardless of
0:21:33.360,0:21:36.640
what the purpose is
0:21:34.720,0:21:38.240
for instance if the purpose is to refer
0:21:36.640,0:21:40.799
to some things
0:21:38.240,0:21:42.880
that you can access without running the
0:21:40.799,0:21:47.039
non-free javascript
0:21:42.880,0:21:47.039
then it's okay for that purpose
0:21:47.200,0:21:52.559
so if now that you understand the
0:21:50.480,0:21:54.880
details of this issue
0:21:52.559,0:21:55.919
you think that there is a problem with
0:21:54.880,0:22:00.080
the
0:21:55.919,0:22:03.679
link to camel there's
0:22:00.080,0:22:06.799
sorry a link in camel dot html
0:22:03.679,0:22:10.880
well report it to
0:22:06.799,0:22:14.159
uh bug gnu emax reported as an Emacs bug
0:22:10.880,0:22:15.840
but do think about the criteria I've
0:22:14.159,0:22:18.000
just said because maybe it's not a
0:22:15.840,0:22:21.840
problem
0:22:18.000,0:22:24.559
is it okay to use the gnu of pharaoh gpl
0:22:21.840,0:22:27.840
for emax packages
0:22:24.559,0:22:27.840
yes it is
0:22:28.880,0:22:32.080
uh which is your favorite programming
0:22:31.120,0:22:35.200
language
0:22:32.080,0:22:38.400
if lisp which variant
0:22:35.200,0:22:41.760
well I don't exactly have a
0:22:38.400,0:22:45.120
favorite variant but
0:22:41.760,0:22:47.520
when I designed Emacs lisp I
0:22:45.120,0:22:48.799
did the best thing I could think of at
0:22:47.520,0:22:52.559
the time
0:22:48.799,0:22:55.520
subject to the need to keep it small
0:22:52.559,0:22:56.960
for the first few years it was important
0:22:55.520,0:22:59.840
for gdu Emacs
0:22:56.960,0:23:00.799
to run in a machine which could only
0:22:59.840,0:23:04.480
give it half
0:23:00.799,0:23:06.559
a meg of user space
0:23:04.480,0:23:09.200
so there are a lot of constructs that
0:23:06.559,0:23:12.320
clearly were desirable to include
0:23:09.200,0:23:15.840
that I left out because we could
0:23:12.320,0:23:15.840
make it work without them
0:23:16.880,0:23:20.640
and then a lot of those have been added
0:23:18.960,0:23:23.200
since because
0:23:20.640,0:23:37.840
it's been a long time since we needed to
0:23:23.200,0:23:37.840
keep Emacs so rigorously small
0:23:40.960,0:23:47.679
um someone is
0:23:44.240,0:23:51.360
asking about the
0:23:47.679,0:23:54.400
fsf's repository project well
0:23:51.360,0:23:55.440
we agreed that there would be another
0:23:54.400,0:23:59.919
virtual machine
0:23:55.440,0:24:05.840
running one of those for the gnu project
0:23:59.919,0:24:05.840
but that's as far as the discussion went
0:24:15.840,0:24:25.600
question 17 is extremely insulting
0:24:20.480,0:24:28.720
I have not engaged in sexual harassment
0:24:25.600,0:24:28.960
don't expect me to plead guilty to such
0:24:28.720,0:24:32.640
a
0:24:28.960,0:24:35.600
nasty claim
0:24:32.640,0:24:36.799
people have been accusing me of many
0:24:35.600,0:24:39.919
things
0:24:36.799,0:24:43.120
some of which are
0:24:39.919,0:24:46.559
basically mole hills and some of which
0:24:43.120,0:24:50.640
are false so
0:24:46.559,0:24:53.840
uh I'm not going to give them
0:24:50.640,0:24:56.400
anything I have been bullied in a
0:24:53.840,0:24:59.360
horrible way
0:24:56.400,0:24:59.360
that was wrong
0:24:59.679,0:25:03.520
I would like the bullies to apologize to
0:25:02.720,0:25:06.320
me
0:25:03.520,0:25:08.960
and when I see that they're not bullying
0:25:06.320,0:25:11.279
I will forgive them
0:25:08.960,0:25:14.799
I would like to have conversations with
0:25:11.279,0:25:17.840
them if any of the mole hills
0:25:14.799,0:25:20.880
annoyed someone I'm happy to talk
0:25:17.840,0:25:29.840
with her and thus
0:25:20.880,0:25:29.840
uh help help resolve things with peace
0:25:31.120,0:25:39.200
and my opinion on
0:25:35.120,0:25:42.720
quote diversity within
0:25:39.200,0:25:45.679
Emacs well Emacs is
0:25:42.720,0:25:46.480
never going to be diverse it is extended
0:25:45.679,0:25:49.760
in
0:25:46.480,0:25:53.279
one language Emacs lisp
0:25:49.760,0:25:55.840
well I don't know uh we did have an idea
0:25:53.279,0:25:58.400
of implementing extensibility using
0:25:55.840,0:26:01.120
scheme and the hope was that guile
0:25:58.400,0:26:02.960
could be integrated with Emacs that
0:26:01.120,0:26:05.279
turned out to be difficult it may be
0:26:02.960,0:26:07.520
impossible but in principle
0:26:05.279,0:26:11.039
it might be a good thing that would be a
0:26:07.520,0:26:14.960
small amount of diversity
0:26:11.039,0:26:16.960
but it's not that important
0:26:14.960,0:26:18.880
what I think is really important for
0:26:16.960,0:26:22.799
developing Emacs
0:26:18.880,0:26:27.039
is to make it do word processing
0:26:22.799,0:26:30.080
I sometimes use libra office
0:26:27.039,0:26:32.799
and yeah I can make it do things
0:26:30.080,0:26:34.880
it has features for wysiwyg which are
0:26:32.799,0:26:38.000
very nice
0:26:34.880,0:26:40.400
but it's in other regards
0:26:38.000,0:26:42.400
it's not Emacs and it doesn't have the
0:26:40.400,0:26:45.520
abilities of Emacs
0:26:42.400,0:26:45.520
and it should
0:26:45.600,0:26:49.039
so I urge people to work on extending
0:26:48.400,0:26:51.600
Emacs
0:26:49.039,0:27:07.840
in that direction adding the features
0:26:51.600,0:27:07.840
that a word processor has to have
0:27:13.600,0:27:21.679
the last question I can answer is
0:27:16.640,0:27:24.960
18 but yes it's a very sad thing
0:27:21.679,0:27:28.399
how many companies
0:27:24.960,0:27:33.200
insist on using non-free software
0:27:28.399,0:27:36.799
well I would get a different kind of job
0:27:33.200,0:27:40.320
that's a decision I made many years ago
0:27:36.799,0:27:42.799
early in the gnu project
0:27:40.320,0:27:47.440
I decided I would not first I would not
0:27:42.799,0:27:47.440
get a job developing non-free software
0:27:47.679,0:27:54.880
and later on I decided
0:27:50.960,0:27:57.120
once I could stop using non-free
0:27:54.880,0:28:00.799
software that is once we had
0:27:57.120,0:28:05.679
a gnu slash linux system that we could
0:28:00.799,0:28:05.679
switch over to and uh
0:28:08.320,0:28:16.240
oh wait I thought I thought magic wand
0:28:11.679,0:28:20.080
time meant it was time to stop
0:28:16.240,0:28:20.080
but now I rather ask the question
0:28:21.039,0:28:23.279
uh
0:28:27.760,0:28:35.679
so what do you do well if I were you
0:28:32.480,0:28:37.440
I'd probably not work for any of those
0:28:35.679,0:28:39.679
companies
0:28:37.440,0:28:40.799
if I needed to make money I'd get a job
0:28:39.679,0:28:43.840
but I get some
0:28:40.799,0:28:48.080
other kind of job
0:28:43.840,0:28:51.039
that didn't involve using software
0:28:48.080,0:28:53.600
I would or that let me choose the
0:28:51.039,0:28:56.880
software I would use
0:28:53.600,0:28:58.000
but I would live cheaply you know the
0:28:56.880,0:29:00.640
less you spend
0:28:58.000,0:29:01.120
the less you need to make and the more
0:29:00.640,0:29:04.720
time
0:29:01.120,0:29:07.200
you can take away from your paid work
0:29:04.720,0:29:08.640
and the more flexibility you have in
0:29:07.200,0:29:13.039
which paid work
0:29:08.640,0:29:16.399
you can do being in a position
0:29:13.039,0:29:19.919
to say no to avoid being
0:29:16.399,0:29:19.919
desperate to say yes
0:29:23.679,0:29:31.200
uh strengthens your position
0:29:27.440,0:29:33.279
and you need that one way you can help
0:29:31.200,0:29:36.559
do that is by
0:29:33.279,0:29:38.960
not having children now that is a
0:29:36.559,0:29:41.760
tangent but it can't be denied that
0:29:38.960,0:29:42.399
raising children is very expensive I
0:29:41.760,0:29:45.559
have heard
0:29:42.399,0:29:48.080
many people say that they are
0:29:45.559,0:29:50.880
uncomfortable with their jobs
0:29:48.080,0:29:52.240
but they have to do those jobs to make
0:29:50.880,0:29:55.440
enough money
0:29:52.240,0:29:59.120
to support their children
0:29:55.440,0:30:01.520
well think about that be aware
0:29:59.120,0:30:04.720
that's likely to happen to you before
0:30:01.520,0:30:04.720
you make that decision
0:30:06.159,0:30:09.840
what would I
0:30:10.000,0:30:16.960
what would I change about free software
0:30:13.279,0:30:20.880
well since this is
0:30:16.960,0:30:25.600
magic I would magically find
0:30:20.880,0:30:28.000
a way of showing everyone why
0:30:25.600,0:30:29.679
most free software needs to be copy
0:30:28.000,0:30:32.480
lifted
0:30:29.679,0:30:34.880
so that our community would not
0:30:32.480,0:30:38.640
basically
0:30:34.880,0:30:41.360
submit to abuse by proprietary software
0:30:38.640,0:30:41.360
developers
0:30:45.919,0:30:53.279
of course I could go further if I could
0:30:49.760,0:30:55.760
magically recruit a hundred thousand
0:30:53.279,0:30:57.919
good programmers to do lots of work
0:30:55.760,0:31:01.039
improving free software
0:30:57.919,0:31:03.279
we might well if we could do this 20
0:31:01.039,0:31:06.559
years ago we might have wiped out
0:31:03.279,0:31:07.200
non-free systems and then we wouldn't
0:31:06.559,0:31:10.320
have had
0:31:07.200,0:31:14.480
horrible things like
0:31:10.320,0:31:18.000
world wide web drm that
0:31:14.480,0:31:20.480
no one has the courage to resist
0:31:18.000,0:31:22.640
if they're desperately trying to get
0:31:20.480,0:31:26.240
money for anything
0:31:22.640,0:31:29.519
and if they need approval of companies
0:31:26.240,0:31:32.960
of the big companies that push for drm
0:31:29.519,0:31:36.720
uh then they don't dare even resist as
0:31:32.960,0:31:36.720
much as they can resist
0:31:38.240,0:31:43.200
and look what happened to the world wide
0:31:40.880,0:31:47.279
web consortium
0:31:43.200,0:31:50.399
uh they surrendered blatantly
0:31:47.279,0:31:54.399
and ignominiously by
0:31:50.399,0:31:54.399
endorsing the drm system
0:31:55.760,0:32:00.880
so what can you do I don't have a magic
0:31:59.600,0:32:04.720
wand
0:32:00.880,0:32:06.559
I'm a human being with the capabilities
0:32:04.720,0:32:09.919
I have
0:32:06.559,0:32:12.840
but the advantage of
0:32:09.919,0:32:14.000
great firmness in campaigning for free
0:32:12.840,0:32:18.240
software
0:32:14.000,0:32:23.200
and this enables me to do things
0:32:18.240,0:32:23.200
that no one else will do
0:32:27.679,0:32:31.519
what tools from pre unix days do you
0:32:30.480,0:32:34.240
miss
0:32:31.519,0:32:34.880
well I don't I don't think about them
0:32:34.240,0:32:38.640
with
0:32:34.880,0:32:42.080
missing them actually but
0:32:38.640,0:32:46.240
it was sort of nice to have
0:32:42.080,0:32:49.600
ddt as your login shell
0:32:46.240,0:32:52.640
so in using modern terminology
0:32:49.600,0:32:55.519
because that meant at any time you could
0:32:52.640,0:32:57.519
stop a program lotus debugging symbols
0:32:55.519,0:32:58.799
and start examining the data in the
0:32:57.519,0:33:01.519
instructions
0:32:58.799,0:33:03.039
you could debug it that way and then you
0:33:01.519,0:33:06.720
could even
0:33:03.039,0:33:09.760
patch in instructions to continue
0:33:06.720,0:33:11.600
running that job with the bug fixed
0:33:09.760,0:33:13.919
in fact you could even do this with the
0:33:11.600,0:33:16.640
system kernel
0:33:13.919,0:33:17.840
so that your jobs wouldn't get lost I
0:33:16.640,0:33:20.559
did that
0:33:17.840,0:33:22.720
quite a few times of course sometimes I
0:33:20.559,0:33:25.919
saw what was wrong and I just had to
0:33:22.720,0:33:28.240
fix a piece of data but sometimes
0:33:25.919,0:33:29.679
it took me a long time to figure out how
0:33:28.240,0:33:32.480
to get the system to
0:33:29.679,0:33:34.240
keep on going but with the work I had
0:33:32.480,0:33:39.279
done
0:33:34.240,0:33:41.600
I didn't want to lose that work
0:33:39.279,0:33:43.039
and so one of the first features I put
0:33:41.600,0:33:45.840
into gdu Emacs was
0:33:43.039,0:33:45.840
auto save
0:33:47.760,0:33:54.320
uh I'm not going to try to figure out
0:33:50.640,0:33:56.480
which packages I re I actually used
0:33:54.320,0:33:59.039
uh if I knew I would get hit by a bus
0:33:56.480,0:34:02.320
tomorrow
0:33:59.039,0:34:05.039
uh say because of a fortune teller
0:34:02.320,0:34:06.240
no a fortune teller doesn't give you any
0:34:05.039,0:34:10.159
knowledge it's just
0:34:06.240,0:34:13.760
superstitious uh hand waving
0:34:10.159,0:34:16.480
so assuming that I
0:34:13.760,0:34:18.879
talked that I got a reading from a
0:34:16.480,0:34:23.119
fortune teller which is
0:34:18.879,0:34:25.040
implausible enough to begin with uh
0:34:23.119,0:34:28.320
that wouldn't give me any knowledge
0:34:25.040,0:34:32.879
about what was going to happen to me
0:34:28.320,0:34:34.960
oh by the way fortune tellers generally
0:34:32.879,0:34:36.879
play back to you facts that they've
0:34:34.960,0:34:40.480
discovered about you
0:34:36.879,0:34:43.440
together with cold reading which means
0:34:40.480,0:34:44.639
they say things calculated to make it
0:34:43.440,0:34:49.119
appear that they know
0:34:44.639,0:34:52.399
more than they do or things that are
0:34:49.119,0:34:55.679
uh that sound wise to anyone
0:34:52.399,0:34:58.800
so you can say the same thing to
0:34:55.679,0:35:02.000
uh say 100 people
0:34:58.800,0:35:05.359
and 80 or 90 of them will say boy that
0:35:02.000,0:35:05.359
was really accurate
0:35:06.480,0:35:14.880
but what if for some reason
0:35:10.400,0:35:14.880
uh about
0:35:15.119,0:35:18.560
what what advice would I give for
0:35:17.440,0:35:22.079
stewardship of
0:35:18.560,0:35:25.359
Emacs well basically
0:35:22.079,0:35:28.480
focus on
0:35:25.359,0:35:29.280
keeping the community strong in
0:35:28.480,0:35:32.640
defending
0:35:29.280,0:35:34.400
freedom if you have a choice between
0:35:32.640,0:35:36.079
keeping the community strong in
0:35:34.400,0:35:38.800
defending freedom
0:35:36.079,0:35:40.720
and getting more people to participate
0:35:38.800,0:35:43.839
in the development
0:35:40.720,0:35:44.400
you've got to choose the freedom it is
0:35:43.839,0:35:48.400
very
0:35:44.400,0:35:52.320
easy for free software projects to
0:35:48.400,0:35:55.359
subordinate freedom to other criteria
0:35:52.320,0:35:58.079
and once that happens it's
0:35:55.359,0:35:58.720
easy for those who don't care much about
0:35:58.079,0:36:00.800
freedom
0:35:58.720,0:36:02.640
such as sometimes companies that might
0:36:00.800,0:36:08.160
offer you some money
0:36:02.640,0:36:10.560
to purchase your soul
0:36:08.160,0:36:14.240
not that there are really things that
0:36:10.560,0:36:16.560
exist called souls it's a metaphor but
0:36:14.240,0:36:18.800
it's an important metaphor for something
0:36:16.560,0:36:20.880
important
0:36:18.800,0:36:24.320
people in the community have to be
0:36:20.880,0:36:27.280
thinking about freedom
0:36:24.320,0:36:30.240
when they make decisions about what is
0:36:27.280,0:36:30.240
wise to do
0:36:31.839,0:36:39.839
the decision to devel to set up non-glpa
0:36:36.480,0:36:41.520
has a drawback it was a compromise now a
0:36:39.839,0:36:44.560
lot of people will
0:36:41.520,0:36:46.240
tell you that I am uncompromising and
0:36:44.560,0:36:48.720
say that that's a flaw
0:36:46.240,0:36:50.320
well they're wrong I make little
0:36:48.720,0:36:53.040
compromises
0:36:50.320,0:36:55.359
very often and occasionally I make a
0:36:53.040,0:36:58.880
medium-sized compromise
0:36:55.359,0:36:59.359
the compromise is in the past we wanted
0:36:58.880,0:37:01.599
to get
0:36:59.359,0:37:02.400
copyright assignments for the packages
0:37:01.599,0:37:06.240
in gnu
0:37:02.400,0:37:09.119
elpa so that we could move them into
0:37:06.240,0:37:11.200
core Emacs and of course sometimes we
0:37:09.119,0:37:14.480
move packages in the other direction
0:37:11.200,0:37:16.160
that way we are where we distribute a
0:37:14.480,0:37:18.160
given package
0:37:16.160,0:37:20.720
is something we can decide purely
0:37:18.160,0:37:20.720
technically
0:37:20.880,0:37:26.800
and however make insisting on getting
0:37:25.200,0:37:28.640
copyright assignments for all the
0:37:26.800,0:37:32.079
packages in gnu elpa
0:37:28.640,0:37:35.119
meant that we had to say sorry no
0:37:32.079,0:37:38.560
we will not install that packages in
0:37:35.119,0:37:41.520
packaging dewey lpa unless the
0:37:38.560,0:37:44.079
authors sign copyright assignments and
0:37:41.520,0:37:47.520
sometimes that's a lot of trouble
0:37:44.079,0:37:50.160
well non-glpa
0:37:47.520,0:37:51.520
won't require copyright assignments if
0:37:50.160,0:37:54.560
there's a free package
0:37:51.520,0:37:57.200
we can make whatever changes presumably
0:37:54.560,0:38:00.560
small otherwise we would probably say
0:37:57.200,0:38:04.560
we don't have time but and then
0:38:00.560,0:38:05.599
put it in but it does have the drawback
0:38:04.560,0:38:07.680
that
0:38:05.599,0:38:09.119
we in general we won't be able to move
0:38:07.680,0:38:12.960
those packages
0:38:09.119,0:38:14.960
into core Emacs without
0:38:12.960,0:38:19.839
getting the legal papers then that we
0:38:14.960,0:38:19.839
didn't get before
0:38:20.160,0:38:27.599
how do you see the future of gdu Emacs
0:38:24.320,0:38:29.839
uh I don't see the future
0:38:27.599,0:38:31.680
I used to say that my crystal ball is
0:38:29.839,0:38:35.680
cloudy today
0:38:31.680,0:38:39.040
unfortunately that has another
0:38:35.680,0:38:41.200
meaning which is quite ironic uh we
0:38:39.040,0:38:44.800
certainly don't want
0:38:41.200,0:38:48.480
our lives to be
0:38:44.800,0:38:51.119
somewhere in a cloud because
0:38:48.480,0:38:51.599
that clouds your mind and then people
0:38:51.119,0:38:54.240
start
0:38:51.599,0:38:56.880
cheating you and taking advantage of you
0:38:54.240,0:39:00.160
and it's horrible
0:38:56.880,0:39:02.720
but uh I don't see the future I just
0:39:00.160,0:39:03.839
can be sure from the past that there
0:39:02.720,0:39:07.599
will be
0:39:03.839,0:39:10.720
challenges where some of the people
0:39:07.599,0:39:12.960
involved want to make a big compromise
0:39:10.720,0:39:16.880
that isn't worth it
0:39:12.960,0:39:18.079
and they some they may even get the
0:39:16.880,0:39:21.200
impression that it's
0:39:18.079,0:39:24.480
up to them well actually
0:39:21.200,0:39:27.440
Emacs has appointed maintainers just as
0:39:24.480,0:39:29.280
every gdu package does and they are the
0:39:27.440,0:39:30.480
ones in charge of developing that
0:39:29.280,0:39:34.400
package
0:39:30.480,0:39:38.200
and this is for a good reason
0:39:34.400,0:39:39.760
because the appointed maintainers take
0:39:38.200,0:39:42.240
responsibility
0:39:39.760,0:39:44.079
to carry out the gnu project policies
0:39:42.240,0:39:46.160
and most important of all
0:39:44.079,0:39:47.520
are the ones that make the whole system
0:39:46.160,0:39:52.160
work together
0:39:47.520,0:39:52.160
and the ethical standards
0:39:52.640,0:39:57.839
to respect freedom and defend freedom
0:39:59.920,0:40:04.960
is there any plan to move more packages
0:40:02.240,0:40:08.480
from core Emacs into elpa
0:40:04.960,0:40:11.440
uh I don't know uh
0:40:08.480,0:40:12.720
whether there is a plan I suppose if
0:40:11.440,0:40:15.680
there's a plan
0:40:12.720,0:40:16.960
we probably would have done it if there
0:40:15.680,0:40:19.839
had been a plan
0:40:16.960,0:40:20.319
some have been moved I don't see this as
0:40:19.839,0:40:22.400
a
0:40:20.319,0:40:24.160
fundamentally important issue it's a
0:40:22.400,0:40:26.640
matter of what's convenient for
0:40:24.160,0:40:29.599
the users and their advantages and
0:40:26.640,0:40:32.800
disadvantages to each choice
0:40:29.599,0:40:35.760
what is your opinion on higher education
0:40:32.800,0:40:36.720
uh requiring non-free software for
0:40:35.760,0:40:40.400
instance
0:40:36.720,0:40:43.440
well I wouldn't I wouldn't
0:40:40.400,0:40:49.119
matriculate in a school which did that
0:40:43.440,0:40:49.119
unless I saw a way I could refuse
0:40:50.960,0:40:57.760
now of course I do this
0:40:54.960,0:41:00.240
because I can get away with it and
0:40:57.760,0:41:04.960
therefore my doing it is extremely
0:41:00.240,0:41:08.400
important to show somebody does resist
0:41:04.960,0:41:09.359
I don't expect most people who support
0:41:08.400,0:41:12.319
free school
0:41:09.359,0:41:13.599
who advocate free software to go that
0:41:12.319,0:41:17.760
far
0:41:13.599,0:41:21.040
uh I published an article in the spring
0:41:17.760,0:41:24.640
entitled saying no even once
0:41:21.040,0:41:25.359
is helping saying no to non-free
0:41:24.640,0:41:29.040
software
0:41:25.359,0:41:32.240
even once because
0:41:29.040,0:41:34.640
the more you do it the more you help but
0:41:32.240,0:41:36.640
even doing it a little in a way that
0:41:34.640,0:41:39.920
other people notice
0:41:36.640,0:41:43.440
is starting to help so
0:41:39.920,0:41:45.119
uh please don't think that your choices
0:41:43.440,0:41:48.480
are either
0:41:45.119,0:41:52.240
be as firm and stubborn as I am
0:41:48.480,0:41:56.240
or just give up and let yourself drift
0:41:52.240,0:41:58.079
helplessly as if you had no volition
0:41:56.240,0:42:00.720
there are a lot of points in between
0:41:58.079,0:42:04.079
there and you can surely
0:42:00.720,0:42:07.839
manage to say no some of the time
0:42:04.079,0:42:11.040
and show people an example of saying no
0:42:07.839,0:42:12.720
some of the time for instance you could
0:42:11.040,0:42:15.520
say to people
0:42:12.720,0:42:16.000
you know I hate the fact that my school
0:42:15.520,0:42:20.400
makes me
0:42:16.000,0:42:22.240
use zoom uh so whenever
0:42:20.400,0:42:24.640
I'm not being forced I'm not going to
0:42:22.240,0:42:24.640
use it
0:42:25.760,0:42:31.200
or I hate the fact that the only way I
0:42:29.200,0:42:35.200
can talk to that group of people
0:42:31.200,0:42:38.400
is resume but when
0:42:35.200,0:42:40.079
but for anything else I will feel better
0:42:38.400,0:42:42.880
about myself if I don't
0:42:40.079,0:42:44.000
see lots of ways to say no some of the
0:42:42.880,0:42:47.040
time
0:42:44.000,0:42:50.960
and yield some of the time
0:42:47.040,0:42:53.920
and when you try saying no occasionally
0:42:50.960,0:42:56.400
you may just develop the ability to say
0:42:53.920,0:42:58.800
no more often
0:42:56.400,0:43:00.640
now whether you would ever get to be as
0:42:58.800,0:43:04.480
stubborn as I am
0:43:00.640,0:43:08.480
I don't know but what I find is that
0:43:04.480,0:43:12.480
I like the fact that I've never made
0:43:08.480,0:43:15.839
this kind of compromise
0:43:12.480,0:43:19.319
I feel I have a reputation to maintain
0:43:15.839,0:43:21.119
nobody's forcing me but I get
0:43:19.319,0:43:24.319
satisfaction
0:43:21.119,0:43:26.400
out of maintaining out of being able to
0:43:24.319,0:43:29.280
continue to say
0:43:26.400,0:43:29.280
I will not
0:43:30.880,0:43:40.480
you are now unmuted and that also
0:43:34.480,0:43:43.520
can happen at various different levels
0:43:40.480,0:43:46.640
so you can get that satisfaction
0:43:43.520,0:43:54.400
of fully maintaining a refusal
0:43:46.640,0:43:57.040
that applies only to certain areas
0:43:54.400,0:43:58.880
citizens uh noon already let's maybe
0:43:57.040,0:43:59.599
take one or two more questions and then
0:43:58.880,0:44:03.200
break for
0:43:59.599,0:44:06.000
the lunch break okay thank you
0:44:03.200,0:44:07.440
how often do you personally use Emacs as
0:44:06.000,0:44:10.640
the
0:44:07.440,0:44:14.960
lowest question now uh
0:44:10.640,0:44:14.960
well I use it most of the day
0:44:16.640,0:44:20.160
I occasionally do use other things in
0:44:18.880,0:44:21.599
fact I occasionally edit with
0:44:20.160,0:44:24.240
libreoffice
0:44:21.599,0:44:25.280
I occasionally use media players I
0:44:24.240,0:44:27.520
occasionally
0:44:25.280,0:44:27.520
uh
0:44:29.040,0:44:34.000
I occasionally ssh to a machine and type
0:44:32.480,0:44:35.440
some commands on it
0:44:34.000,0:44:38.240
which occasionally includes running
0:44:35.440,0:44:38.240
Emacs on it
0:44:42.319,0:44:47.520
I read pdf files a lot
0:44:45.760,0:44:49.599
would be nice if you could get those
0:44:47.520,0:44:52.240
into Emacs so that I could read them
0:44:49.599,0:44:55.040
with Emacs commands
0:44:52.240,0:44:56.160
and I maybe even edit them with the max
0:44:55.040,0:44:59.440
commands
0:44:56.160,0:45:02.960
when they can be edited I use
0:44:59.440,0:45:07.680
uh journal sometimes
0:45:02.960,0:45:07.680
to write on a pdf file
0:45:10.079,0:45:13.760
are there any more interesting projects
0:45:12.160,0:45:18.400
you have in mind over and above
0:45:13.760,0:45:22.079
non-gnu elpa uh
0:45:18.400,0:45:25.520
I can't think of one right now well
0:45:22.079,0:45:27.119
there are things there are things that
0:45:25.520,0:45:30.560
the gnu project needs
0:45:27.119,0:45:32.319
doing there are packages that don't have
0:45:30.560,0:45:35.839
maintainers or could use
0:45:32.319,0:45:38.880
more maintainers uh
0:45:35.839,0:45:42.000
talk with maintainers at canoe.org
0:45:38.880,0:45:44.960
and the assistant candusences will
0:45:42.000,0:45:47.839
help you find a package where you can do
0:45:44.960,0:45:47.839
good
0:45:48.400,0:45:52.079
not for beginners though you got to get
0:45:50.560,0:45:55.599
you got to learn
0:45:52.079,0:45:58.160
uh a substantive substantial level of
0:45:55.599,0:45:59.440
capacity to develop and debug programs
0:45:58.160,0:46:02.800
before you can
0:45:59.440,0:46:04.480
be a maintainer uh have I ever looked at
0:46:02.800,0:46:08.400
maggot
0:46:04.480,0:46:11.920
uh no I haven't
0:46:08.400,0:46:14.880
but I believe
0:46:11.920,0:46:16.560
work is being done to get it put into
0:46:14.880,0:46:21.200
Emacs
0:46:16.560,0:46:21.200
and at that point I'll give it a try
0:46:22.240,0:46:25.760
I do not want to share my configuration
0:46:25.200,0:46:29.520
files
0:46:25.760,0:46:33.599
they're personal but
0:46:29.520,0:46:36.880
how about if we end this now
0:46:33.599,0:46:38.880
you are now unmuted sounds good to me
0:46:36.880,0:46:41.520
thank you very much richard for joining
0:46:38.880,0:46:43.839
in for live questions
0:46:41.520,0:46:43.839
okay
