path: root/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-open-mic--open-micpad-for-quick-updates-etc--main.vtt

WEBVTT

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I believe we are live, so hi again folks and welcome to a

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little bit of an unstructured time that we wanted to have for

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this particular EmacsConf. We have a bit of a lighter

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afternoon compared to previous years and we just thought it

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would be a nice opportunity for us and for you to join if

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you've got anything to share like you wanted maybe to have a

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talk this year but haven't had the time to submit a

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presentation well now's your time think of it more like the

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traditional workshops that Emacs Paris or Emacs Berlin

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tends to run so if you've got anything to share we've made

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sure to publish the link to this room on IRC and perhaps as

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well on the website And yeah, it's just a moment for you. If

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it's a little slow because people do not join, we might start

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chatting a little bit about Emacs Conf in general, and

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perhaps take a little bit of advance on the closing remarks

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for the day, just so that I can go to bed early. But otherwise,

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the mic is yours.

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Does any of my fellow co-organizers want to maybe join in and

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say a word? Maybe you, Corwin?

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Who, me? No, I usually just sit here quietly. You know me,

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Leo. Nothing to say to me. I see Karthik here.

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Karthik has joined the chat. We can see what Karthik has been

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up to.

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Hi, everyone. Hi. Hey, I hear you.

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Is there anything you wanted to share, Karthik?

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Nothing in particular, but if people suggest topics and

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have something to say or show off, then I'll jump in. Right,

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you're coming in as someone who wants to react to stuff, not

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someone who wants to present, but that's completely fine

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too. But that means that we are still stopped for people who

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want to chat. We're still pointing fingers at people in the

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chat, otherwise.

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Well, and if you're watching and you want to. Yep. If you, I

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was just going to say, if, uh, if you're watching the stream

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and you'd like to get involved, uh, you can join, uh,

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libera.chat on IRC and join the emacsconf-gen channel. Um, uh, or,

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uh, just, just, uh, reach out in one of those channels and,

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and we'll, we'll, we'll ship you a link to join in the BBB

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here. I'm not sure if that got auto published. I didn't see it

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on the website.

NOTE Vertico

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I can suggest a topic, since many people have demoed or used

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transient in this conf. I was wondering if someone has any

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interesting uses for transient.

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It's an interesting topic, sadly one in which I'm not going

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to be personally able to participate in because I'm still

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old school. It took me, you know, the VertiCo stack. Did we

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actually present something on vertico at EmacsConf? I'm not

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sure, but it's a completion engine in separate packages,

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very similar to what people may be more familiar with, i.e.

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Ivy, Helm, ido, all those tools. But I'm old school and I

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still use Hydra when it comes to interaction. But I've been

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meaning to transition into Transient at some point and I'd

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actually be quite interested in people sharing how they've

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been able to use Transient to supplement their interfaces.

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but I'm obviously a big user as I think most people would be in

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this room and on live viewers. The Git, I use it plenty and

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it's a wonderful interface and I wish I could develop

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similar interfaces for my own packages that I manage. So

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maybe at some point. But apparently part of the discussion I

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think revolves around the fact that transients might be a

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little hard to approach for people who are perhaps used to

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the simplicity of a Hydra set up with aboabo's packages. So,

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if anyone has got anything to say about this, you're more

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than welcome to join us on BBB. You can also chat it up on IRC

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and we'll try to give voice to the lines you write and we might

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be able to react. Otherwise, I suggest if we got a call in.

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Although that's where I was going to take it to. I think

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that's a perfect question. Because for once, although

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obviously any of us can probably talk about how interesting

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it is at some length, it's not something that Leo and I,

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normally such loquacious people, have any real insight to.

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So kind of pick up the phone, call in, jump on the BBB, or

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through your comments in IRC, exactly as Leo says. Love to,

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love to have, uh, invite more participation in the

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discussion and thinking about how to answer that. I myself,

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uh, you know, jump into my own workflow and I'd start

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thinking about, oh, well, what is working for me so well, I

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haven't dug into that sort of where I take the question.

NOTE which-key

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which-key actually is the direct answer to that, right? For

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me, that particular package, which seems to come up a lot in

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sort of help-adjacent forums as being a discovery tool, a

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way to learn different bindings. I self-identify as being

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kind of on a path of memorizing all the keystrokes I'm going

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to care about and how to find ones that I, it would have been

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convenient if I cared more about before today, right? So

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it's, for me, a lot of Emacs's power is the, you know,

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whatever brings to me the knowledge of what I should have

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done a moment ago, need to do, you know, how to do what I need to

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do next and so on.

NOTE eldoc

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I'll also be a user of which-key here and all the fancy tools

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like eldoc which provides you in your modeline the signature

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of the function you're currently writing such as if you're

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writing an elist function but you've suddenly forgotten

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which is the first argument which is the second argument

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usually you have if you stay inside the function it will show

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in the modline what the arguments are supposed to be and what

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their names are so that it's actually pretty useful. And you

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get similar things if you're writing other languages, like

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I write Go for a living, and it's always good to have the

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signature appears in the model line whenever you're

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writing the start of a function. So I'm seeing, I'll read out

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a couple comments here. I just, I note the, you know, use of

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transient as a bridge to Elisp, especially if you don't know

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it well, you're not interested in learning it, even

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perhaps. I've certainly run into that. You know, oh, yuck,

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Elisp. No, I'm doing fine with Customize or whatever works

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for you, right? That's a lot of the Emacs spirit. So I hear

NOTE Casual

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that. Uh, and then, and that brings up casual, which, uh,

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I've seen a lot of discussion of personally, and that, that

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looks, uh, you know, uh, it's an, all of these types of things

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like org actually, which we've been talking a lot about this

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weekend. you know, bring together a lot of functionality

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kind of cross-cuttingly across Emacs, all the different

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languages that we can figure out how to view nicely in Emacs

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will, you know, fit into some sort of, you know, kind of

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literate format to talk about. code that needs to span a lot

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of languages for whatever reason, right? So I guess my bite

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at the apple there. Yeah, casual's neat and so is transient.

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I haven't... I haven't for myself... I've seen some comments in

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chat throughout the weekend good discussion around hey

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that's you know it's kind of hard to learn how to use how do I

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fit this into my use case how do I think about things in the

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same terms that transients abstractions do so that you know

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to the extent I need to I build my program in terms of those

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same abstractions or to the extent that isn't necessary or

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helpful just so that it's natural for me to set up my

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customized variables so that my saved routines just do the

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right thing or my read routine spectrum in the right place or

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whatever, tying the room together, sorts of integration. I

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haven't run into that because for me, I'm on this journey of

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learning the keys was my point. I'm not actually preaching

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for that's the way to use Emacs, quite the reverse.

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away.

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All right, I see that some people are joining us on the BBB, so

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if you've got a mic on, we're gonna assume that you want to be

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chatting, but don't hesitate to interrupt us if you've got

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anything to contribute, meaningful otherwise, if you just

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want to chat it up with us, we are also here for this. Yeah, and

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to do the radio announcer thing a little harder too. Like,

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you know, I guess in my mind, I'm thinking of this as a call-in

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format. Just come over and grab a microphone and talk about

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your thoughts and whether it's something that Leo or I are

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saying, or Sacha, that you've been pretty quiet over there,

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that are setting you going, or you just kind of walk into the

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room with, hey guys, why aren't we talking about, or let's

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talk more about, or thoughts from the weekend, which as Leo

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mentioned, is kind of where we're gonna where we in our own

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minds are sort of sitting, walking into the room.

NOTE Closing remarks

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Perhaps what we could do is I mentioned that we could perhaps

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take a little bit of advance on the closing remark. I know it

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feels weird to be closing a conference that has not yet

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finished because we still have many talks in the afternoon.

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If I count, we have one, two, three, four, five talks. Well,

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actually, no, four. So there's still plenty to go. But

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since, you know, you know, I'm still in Europe and it's still

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pretty tough to maintain composure until 11. Might be a good

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time for us maybe to read over the closing remarks. How do you

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feel, Corwin, about this and Sacha, how do you feel about

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this? Yep, that'd be cool. Sacha? Fine with me. People can

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continue to share thoughts and ideas in the chat or in the

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Etherpad and we can go through the closing remarks. You want

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to share the sun-close? Uh, I do have them. I'm not sure. So you

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did copy over. Okay, good. I can kind of rotate the screen

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between them if that works. And I'll try to jump over to chat a

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little more. Uh, you know, sure. I'm putting the link on BBB

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just in case people in there wants to follow. And also for

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you, Corwin, if you want to open it up more quickly. Yeah,

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that's going to be easier. Thank you.

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Pretty sure I have the Sunday close pad here, but I'll take

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your link, sir.

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Um, I mean, I've got my org channel. Sure. I mean, Elephant

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Ergo, if you want to jump in, you know, we were suggesting

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doing the Saturday, Sunday close, sorry. Instead of having

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people chat, but if you have something to say right now, feel

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free to jump in. Although you do not have your microphone on,

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you would need to join the audio in order to chat. Yep, and you

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can also use any of the private message type of features. Did

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you guys want me to bring up the pad here? I did pull it up. Oh,

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well, I got it already. Understood. Okay, cool. So I think

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Elephant Ergonomics is currently switching to the

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microphone so that they may ask a question. So I suggest we

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wait a little bit.

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Elephant Ergonomics, yes, right now, you figured it out.

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Hi. Is this working? Oh, wow. Cool. Okay. Long time

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listener. First time on the show. Wow.

NOTE Graphical web browsing

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Okay. Well, I shouldn't let my nerves get the best of me now

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because I got it all set up. So basically the thing that I've

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been thinking about because I've had a a handful of thoughts

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related to graphical web browsing. Because I know that

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that's a point of friction for me, for sure. I don't know how

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much other people experience that. I know that I've

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certainly heard murmurs about it. But I've been

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speculating about a couple of thoughts about that recently

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for some of the stuff that can be done in order to get like the

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sort of invasive graphical JavaScript, giant

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unmanageable spec sort of version of the browser working

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inside of Emacs, you know, in addition to, you know, the much

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more manageable EWW kind of thing.

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So yeah, basically as part of my rambling, I had basically

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two major thoughts for strategies, because God knows this is

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way too big of a thing for me to tackle just for me. And I have

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been kind of thinking, you know, where do I go about getting

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started? And I think maybe that would probably just look

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like maybe, you know, pitching ideas that have been on the

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back of my mind.

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The first of which is that I stumbled upon uh, this

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application while ago called browsh. Uh, it's a, I'm going to

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go ahead and post that in the chat. Um, and just the, uh,

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emacsconf-gen.

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So let's see here. It's not going.

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Oh, trying to light space. Cool. So this is a, I have no

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personal involvement with this project. The person that

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developed this does not know I exist, but I stumbled upon

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this in the wild. And what's really quite interesting about

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it is that it will run, it's effectively a headless browser

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in the background and then convert this into blocks of text

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for the sake of rendering inside a terminal. This is

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especially helpful in the case where you can run the daemon

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that's actually responsible for the headless browser

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instance on a completely different box than the one that

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you're actually running your shell on. And you have this

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complete separation between the I/O and the actual handling

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of all of the complex, kind of opaque, really unmanageable,

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big browser stuff. I'm thinking that there's definitely

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something that we could consider cannibalizing here,

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either for

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one of the different rendering paradigms that fits inside

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of Emacs more cleanly, especially either like the SVG

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renderer. Or again, trying to figure out how to break it into

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blocks somehow, but I feel like there's definitely.

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Something very Emacs-y about the strategy that I would love to

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consider, especially for someone more technically

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qualified than I. To consider, I would love to tackle this.

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Given that I have the time, but I didn't want to sit on this

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idea. On my own on the basis that, you know, there's a lot

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really qualified people here and I figured that. You know,

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someone that's a little bit more frustrated than me about

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this could very well. Pick this up and run with it.

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So I wanted to suggest that I also wanted to suggest the

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prospect of... I found a couple of just completely separately

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as a strategy to

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the ability to re-render outputted DOM content

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that would be rendered by, again, a

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full-fledged browser, probably in a headless,

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a sort of instance and then

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converting that DOM content to SVG,

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which we could then render inside of Emacs

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either piecewise or as

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the entire document. And I feel that that could be another

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strategy that we could perhaps consider as something that

00:18:36.720 --> 00:18:41.399
we can do for, you know, headless processing, and then

00:18:41.400 --> 00:18:43.839
having the Emacs rendering engine actually responsible

00:18:43.840 --> 00:18:52.759
for the display and the I/O. So yeah, I just wanted to suggest a

00:18:52.760 --> 00:19:00.279
couple of those sort of ideas I've been sitting on. A couple

NOTE org-web-tools

00:19:00.280 --> 00:19:03.479
of things related to that stuff would be org-web-tools, I

00:19:03.480 --> 00:19:07.519
think is what it's called, from alphapapa. It'll allow you

00:19:07.520 --> 00:19:12.359
to download a webpage into an Org Mode document. Or if you

00:19:12.360 --> 00:19:16.519
wanted to use a web browser that would have key bindings,

00:19:16.520 --> 00:19:20.759
primarily, you would want to use the next browser or

00:19:20.760 --> 00:19:27.719
qutebrowser, where they're more of meant to have their settings

00:19:27.720 --> 00:19:33.319
saved in a text document. And in the case of Next, it's

00:19:33.320 --> 00:19:39.839
written in Common Lisp and is very deeply inspired by Emacs.

00:19:39.840 --> 00:19:43.199
So I'll just break in what is a great discussion briefly to

00:19:43.200 --> 00:19:45.959
say. If you're just joining us, you're watching the Emacs

00:19:45.960 --> 00:19:50.479
conference. We're doing a brief open mic session. And we've

00:19:50.480 --> 00:19:56.119
been joined, we have... Sorry, I was just going to introduce

00:19:56.120 --> 00:20:13.039
you, Plasma. Sorry. Nasty feedback from you, Sacha. Sorry.

00:20:13.040 --> 00:20:17.719
We'll definitely have to check out integration for those

00:20:17.720 --> 00:20:22.559
two browsers. You know, this is my first time taking a look at

00:20:22.560 --> 00:20:28.239
web tools. This could definitely help me.

NOTE qutebrowser

00:20:28.240 --> 00:20:32.879
I've been using qutebrowser really persistently. It has

00:20:32.880 --> 00:20:35.199
dramatically improved my browser experience, but I'm

00:20:35.200 --> 00:20:39.559
still definitely having that last little bit of context

00:20:39.560 --> 00:20:43.359
switch friction that I would love to make disappear. Next

00:20:43.360 --> 00:20:47.439
might be part of the recipe, but I definitely think that, you

00:20:47.440 --> 00:20:51.199
know, certainly the goal for me is that I would love to see it

00:20:51.200 --> 00:20:56.839
inside Emacs itself. But this is, this definitely

00:20:56.840 --> 00:21:00.319
represents a big piecewise improvement I'm going to have to

00:21:00.320 --> 00:21:05.679
pursue. So thank you.

00:21:05.680 --> 00:21:09.439
So I think that that intersects some some several

00:21:09.440 --> 00:21:11.679
conversations that I think we've heard throughout the

00:21:11.680 --> 00:21:17.879
weekend kind of touching on the idea of, you know, baking our

00:21:17.880 --> 00:21:22.759
baking our thoughts into the core of Emacs right. and

00:21:22.760 --> 00:21:27.519
realizing, oh yeah, this is a pattern other people or a

00:21:27.520 --> 00:21:30.159
problem other people are running into or a way that other

00:21:30.160 --> 00:21:38.199
people work or a way that people want Emacs to look or just

00:21:38.200 --> 00:21:40.479
starts me thinking about like alternate key binding

00:21:40.480 --> 00:21:43.639
packages, which over the last few years, I feel like we've

00:21:43.640 --> 00:21:47.159
seen just a ton of options in a space that had been somewhat

00:21:47.160 --> 00:21:50.439
dormant, right? There was evil and everything else. And now

00:21:50.440 --> 00:21:54.759
there is a lot of granularity in my mind to everything else.

00:21:54.760 --> 00:21:57.039
So although I'm not using any of these things, I think I've

00:21:57.040 --> 00:22:02.039
bumped into them a lot. A couple of other related topics in

00:22:02.040 --> 00:22:05.359
case that jogs anyone's interest to jump in and join the

00:22:05.360 --> 00:22:16.039
discussion. Yeah, thanks. Thanks for the comments.

00:22:16.040 --> 00:22:18.679
Any other person wants to share something in the room

00:22:18.680 --> 00:22:22.159
currently? I'm seeing plenty of familiar names, so this is

00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:26.399
an invitation for those who I haven't heard so far to come in

00:22:26.400 --> 00:22:30.479
and chat.

00:22:30.480 --> 00:22:34.839
And I mentioned to a comment I see from wasamasa saying, I've

00:22:34.840 --> 00:22:39.399
been experimenting with using some crap to review ELIS

00:22:39.400 --> 00:22:43.239
security issues. That's something.

00:22:43.240 --> 00:22:48.999
you want to leave. I'm not sure that is. Yeah. I'm not sure if

00:22:49.000 --> 00:22:52.599
Wes and Marcel wants to deprive themselves of, well,

00:22:52.600 --> 00:22:56.559
actually unmuted yourself. So please go. What? I've only

00:22:56.560 --> 00:23:00.959
got my name, that's all. I was just reading out your comment

00:23:00.960 --> 00:23:06.199
from the chat. Yeah. Just jump in on any topic, honestly.

00:23:06.200 --> 00:23:09.599
Okay. I thought like, it's like an invitation for people to

00:23:09.600 --> 00:23:12.519
talk what, you know, they've recently started trying to do

00:23:12.520 --> 00:23:15.359
in Emacs. That's exactly right. A hundred percent. Okay.

00:23:15.360 --> 00:23:22.519
Okay. So, well, I do review security things for work. And one

00:23:22.520 --> 00:23:25.839
colleague has been like bugging me all the time about, hey,

00:23:25.840 --> 00:23:28.279
try semgrep. It's pretty cool if you have like, you know,

00:23:28.280 --> 00:23:32.119
decent rules to review stuff. And I postponed it for the

00:23:32.120 --> 00:23:35.879
longest time. And then I thought, actually, you know what,

00:23:35.880 --> 00:23:38.959
which would really make sense to like try out whether it even

00:23:38.960 --> 00:23:44.039
works for elisp source code review at all. And the answer is

00:23:44.040 --> 00:23:47.119
somewhat like apparently they've added LISP support,

00:23:47.120 --> 00:23:50.439
which is pretty cool. So it seems it's like best developed

00:23:50.440 --> 00:23:55.279
for like reviewing closure code. There are no rules to my

00:23:55.280 --> 00:23:59.599
knowledge. I started writing some and yeah, it does work. I

00:23:59.600 --> 00:24:02.999
have no idea how many, how many other people are trying to

00:24:03.000 --> 00:24:05.799
actively look into Emacs security issues. It feels to me

00:24:05.800 --> 00:24:07.919
like it's like a handful at best, like I don't know,

00:24:07.920 --> 00:24:13.279
somewhere between three and five people maybe. And yeah. If

00:24:13.280 --> 00:24:17.159
anyone knows any rule sets for making this easier, I would be

00:24:17.160 --> 00:24:20.999
very interested, because then we'd have a common place to

00:24:21.000 --> 00:24:24.799
share them. Maybe it'd be appropriate for me to jump back in

00:24:24.800 --> 00:24:28.159
here and just share that, you know, you're somebody that I

00:24:28.160 --> 00:24:31.639
definitely trust with these issues. We could talk in the

00:24:31.640 --> 00:24:36.039
abstract at least about places where, you know, Emacs, not

00:24:36.040 --> 00:24:38.599
necessarily the Emacs team, but maybe more the Free

00:24:38.600 --> 00:24:41.839
Software Society has said, oh, somebody reached out to us

00:24:41.840 --> 00:24:44.879
about this possible concern. Can you dig into that and find

00:24:44.880 --> 00:24:48.279
out if there's, you know, any reason to be concerned and then

00:24:48.280 --> 00:24:52.279
find the right people on the Emacs project team and work with

00:24:52.280 --> 00:24:54.599
that. So I know that this is something you've been working on

00:24:54.600 --> 00:24:57.519
actually for, I don't want to say several years, but more

00:24:57.520 --> 00:25:05.719
than a year.

00:25:05.720 --> 00:25:08.959
All right. Any other person wants to share something?

00:25:08.960 --> 00:25:12.519
Otherwise we have about 15 minutes until the next talk is due

00:25:12.520 --> 00:25:15.239
to go live, which would leave us some time to do the closing

00:25:15.240 --> 00:25:15.559
remarks.

00:25:15.560 --> 00:25:27.359
Let's wait just a bit, let's give people 30 seconds maybe to

00:25:27.360 --> 00:25:31.359
connect their thoughts and share them on IRC or to join the

00:25:31.360 --> 00:25:36.079
BBB. So in the spirit of, you know, get it out of the way so that

00:25:36.080 --> 00:25:39.479
we can let people go to bed and not do our usual rambling two

00:25:39.480 --> 00:25:42.359
hours of open remarks where we regret that we didn't turn

00:25:42.360 --> 00:25:45.279
them into the open mic. Right. So hopefully everyone's

00:25:45.280 --> 00:25:47.959
getting the message that, you know, we love to talk about

00:25:47.960 --> 00:25:50.999
Emacs and if you've been to prior conferences, you're

00:25:51.000 --> 00:25:52.959
probably, and you've watched through the closing

00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:55.879
ceremonies, you may have noticed that we do, you know, We

00:25:55.880 --> 00:25:59.239
have a lot of fun talking about all the different ideas that

00:25:59.240 --> 00:26:03.959
have come forward here. And so this is realizing that and

00:26:03.960 --> 00:26:08.239
also realizing that our habit of talking for several hours

00:26:08.240 --> 00:26:12.879
as part of closing the conference is maybe keeping some of us

00:26:12.880 --> 00:26:19.839
up at night and jobs and things. So in that spirit, I just want

00:26:19.840 --> 00:26:23.599
to throw out And I you know, I like to talk about this at least

00:26:23.600 --> 00:26:28.679
once a year. I mean isn't here and I tend to defer to him It's so

00:26:28.680 --> 00:26:31.679
I'll also use this opportunity to say gosh. I miss that guy

00:26:31.680 --> 00:26:38.239
and thanks so much For all of you've done over the years. Yeah

00:26:38.240 --> 00:26:41.279
I'm sorry, you can't make it this year and I'm actually have

00:26:41.280 --> 00:26:44.799
personally having a lot of fun covering for me for you It

00:26:44.800 --> 00:26:48.079
gives me a A lot of little things that I've picked up how to do,

00:26:48.080 --> 00:26:50.919
I'm actually getting to do a little bit of. So fun stuff for

00:26:50.920 --> 00:26:58.879
me, but miss you. And in that spirit and thinking of you,

00:26:58.880 --> 00:27:05.599
Amin, I'll also say that, and that's Bandali, if you know him

00:27:05.600 --> 00:27:06.599
from IRC more.

00:27:06.600 --> 00:27:12.399
He would want us to make sure that we talk about the Free

00:27:12.400 --> 00:27:16.999
Software Foundation and the fact that that is giving to the

00:27:17.000 --> 00:27:19.719
Free Software Foundation as the primary means to support

00:27:19.720 --> 00:27:23.759
development of Emacs and other GNU packages. We, as a

00:27:23.760 --> 00:27:26.399
project, are part of the giving... Somebody help me with the

00:27:26.400 --> 00:27:31.199
name of the project. It's not in the... I'll just go back to it

00:27:31.200 --> 00:27:39.439
and even show it, right? So, we are part of the giving

00:27:39.440 --> 00:27:45.359
together or working together. A program, and you can, you

00:27:45.360 --> 00:27:48.399
can get through that. There may be some matching going on.

00:27:48.400 --> 00:27:52.359
There's a fundraiser also that happens to typically run

00:27:52.360 --> 00:27:57.719
during the conference currently. and I encourage you to

00:27:57.720 --> 00:28:03.039
become a member and there's some newer, lower amount. Also,

00:28:03.040 --> 00:28:06.599
you can get directly directed through this program to the

00:28:06.600 --> 00:28:09.599
Emacs conference. For the first time this year, we're

00:28:09.600 --> 00:28:13.679
actually using those funds. Sacha went and did a bunch of

00:28:13.680 --> 00:28:17.879
work to enable us to use some more scalable purchased

00:28:17.880 --> 00:28:20.719
infrastructure that's different from what the FSF just

00:28:20.720 --> 00:28:23.359
provides us, for example. We use a lot of different things

00:28:23.360 --> 00:28:27.799
and thanks also to Pearl and others who are providing us

00:28:27.800 --> 00:28:30.639
infrastructure, as well as Sacha for just the amazing work

00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:38.279
that you do there. And as well to people that are giving in

00:28:38.280 --> 00:28:41.679
some other way, such as your time contributed to the EMAX

00:28:41.680 --> 00:28:45.439
project, to the many cool packages I myself take advantage

00:28:45.440 --> 00:28:49.319
of. And all of that, don't please feel pressured to break the

00:28:49.320 --> 00:28:53.839
piggy bank when that's a bad idea to help out, but it's help

00:28:53.840 --> 00:29:02.119
when you can. All right, how about we start from the top of the

00:29:02.120 --> 00:29:04.359
closing remarks so that we make sure that we don't forget

00:29:04.360 --> 00:29:08.119
anyone or anything. So if you could scroll just a little bit

00:29:08.120 --> 00:29:10.079
over, Corbyn, on your screen.

00:29:10.080 --> 00:29:21.119
I think you went on the right one. It's a little small for me to

00:29:21.120 --> 00:29:22.719
see which one it is.

00:29:22.720 --> 00:29:29.919
No, I think it's the other pad. You had it open right before. I

00:29:29.920 --> 00:29:34.439
think it's Sunday Close, the other tab on your browser. I

00:29:34.440 --> 00:29:37.159
managed to meet myself in BBB. That's what happened there.

00:29:37.160 --> 00:29:42.879
Okay, sorry. So here, and you wanted up or down? I wanted up,

00:29:42.880 --> 00:29:47.759
just as soon as you see the dashed line. Run through these

00:29:47.760 --> 00:29:52.039
instead of Corwin getting his stuff out of the way. Word.

00:29:52.040 --> 00:29:56.599
Yeah, but I'll make sure to skip over the stuff that you

00:29:56.600 --> 00:30:00.599
already mentioned. But yes, let's try to preempt a little

00:30:00.600 --> 00:30:05.599
bit the end of the conference for the reasons I've mentioned

00:30:05.600 --> 00:30:10.359
before. I get first to thank you all so much for being part of

00:30:10.360 --> 00:30:15.759
Emacs Conf 2024. Obviously, we still have a handful more

00:30:15.760 --> 00:30:19.039
talks to go this afternoon, but thanks again for showing up.

00:30:19.040 --> 00:30:24.039
We've had steady numbers for the last five years or so. This

00:30:24.040 --> 00:30:28.199
is my fifth year. hosting the general track and we've always

00:30:28.200 --> 00:30:32.399
averaged between 150 to 200 viewers which is amazing when

00:30:32.400 --> 00:30:38.279
you just think about it but we We are accruing plenty more

00:30:38.280 --> 00:30:41.759
views over the years because everyone is watching either on

00:30:41.760 --> 00:30:44.959
the website or on YouTube or on PeerTube. So thank you so much

00:30:44.960 --> 00:30:48.079
for everyone taking the time to, well, first come to the

00:30:48.080 --> 00:30:51.879
show. To watch the video, to share it, absolutely. Yes,

00:30:51.880 --> 00:30:53.999
because we've just talked about viewers. If you're

00:30:54.000 --> 00:30:57.119
watching this a year from now, we're thanking you for the

00:30:57.120 --> 00:31:00.999
view. We're talking to you. If you're mentioning a video of

00:31:01.000 --> 00:31:06.159
the Society Maths Conference, Thanks for doing that.

00:31:06.160 --> 00:31:10.319
That's what makes this worth it. The thing that we have to

00:31:10.320 --> 00:31:14.239
talk about for hours after it ends every year, sorry about

00:31:14.240 --> 00:31:18.399
that if it's been a disruption for your schedule, is the

00:31:18.400 --> 00:31:21.199
sense of community that we feel when we come together and

00:31:21.200 --> 00:31:24.319
watch all the different chats running on all these. I have a

00:31:24.320 --> 00:31:27.959
bunch of screens going so that I can see all the different

00:31:27.960 --> 00:31:32.439
chats and we all have a different way of connecting to all the

00:31:32.440 --> 00:31:34.759
different conversations going on. It's just a lot of

00:31:34.760 --> 00:31:41.879
energy. But at the end of the day, it's about helping people

00:31:41.880 --> 00:31:46.399
connect with the other groups and subgroups of people that

00:31:46.400 --> 00:31:48.759
are excited about the same stuff using Emacs to get there.

00:31:48.760 --> 00:31:55.959
Yeah, definitely. A word on those recordings, because we

00:31:55.960 --> 00:32:00.879
mentioned the previous year's videos, but when it comes to

00:32:00.880 --> 00:32:04.439
this conference, the videos, most of the pre-recording and

00:32:04.440 --> 00:32:07.719
most of the talk that we had except one this year, they are

00:32:07.720 --> 00:32:13.079
already available on emaxconf-.org, the website. You can

00:32:13.080 --> 00:32:16.839
also find them on the YouTube account for emaxconf, they're

00:32:16.840 --> 00:32:21.159
fairly easy to find. We'll try to get them on PeerTube at some

00:32:21.160 --> 00:32:26.159
point. We are not sure when. But the rule is, right now, we are

00:32:26.160 --> 00:32:28.999
going to take some time. Go on, Sacha, if you want. There are

00:32:29.000 --> 00:32:33.959
two things already. I should put a URL to the channel in.

00:32:33.960 --> 00:32:38.959
Okay, sure. So, Sacha will take care of this. But all the

00:32:38.960 --> 00:32:41.839
pre-recordings are already available with the subtitles

00:32:41.840 --> 00:32:44.159
when we manage to receive them sufficiently early. And if

00:32:44.160 --> 00:32:47.279
not, it'll take maybe a couple of days for us to get them out

00:32:47.280 --> 00:32:50.319
there. But yes, the pre-recordings are there. When it comes

00:32:50.320 --> 00:32:53.599
to the live Q&A, so the little sessions you've seen us do live

00:32:53.600 --> 00:32:57.239
when we were on BBB asking questions to the speakers and also

00:32:57.240 --> 00:32:59.799
having people join in the discussion, this will take a

00:32:59.800 --> 00:33:02.759
little more time for us to publish them because we like to

00:33:02.760 --> 00:33:06.919
follow a process of captioning them and making sure we take

00:33:06.920 --> 00:33:09.319
all the questions and all the answers from the pad and

00:33:09.320 --> 00:33:12.999
centralize everything on the website. So this is a process

00:33:13.000 --> 00:33:16.439
that takes about two to three weeks and we are not putting a

00:33:16.440 --> 00:33:18.959
lot of pressure on us to do this. If there is anything you're

00:33:18.960 --> 00:33:21.839
dying to see you'll have to wait a little bit but we'll try to

00:33:21.840 --> 00:33:24.959
make sure to make the information available as soon as we

00:33:24.960 --> 00:33:27.999
can. So

00:33:28.000 --> 00:33:31.759
Let me read the notes just to make sure we're not forgetting

00:33:31.760 --> 00:33:36.839
anything. Yes, when it comes to the publishing process, if

00:33:36.840 --> 00:33:39.279
you want to keep in touch and know when something is going to

00:33:39.280 --> 00:33:42.199
be released, we will announce all of this on the

00:33:42.200 --> 00:33:45.959
emacsconf-discuss mailing list, so emacsconf-discuss.

00:33:45.960 --> 00:33:49.639
You'll be able to find the link on the website as well and it's

00:33:49.640 --> 00:33:53.039
already on the pad that we are sharing currently on the

00:33:53.040 --> 00:33:54.559
screen.

00:33:54.560 --> 00:33:59.679
So obviously we'd be very happy to get some feedback from you

00:33:59.680 --> 00:34:03.359
on the conference and you can do this on this pad. We'll

00:34:03.360 --> 00:34:05.519
mention this at the end of the day again so that you get a

00:34:05.520 --> 00:34:08.839
chance to watch the last few talks of the conference and

00:34:08.840 --> 00:34:11.559
mention your thoughts on this but yeah we are very open to

00:34:11.560 --> 00:34:17.319
feedback. Part of the reason why It feels like a well-oiled

00:34:17.320 --> 00:34:19.759
machine, EmacsConf, is the fact that we've been iterating

00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:25.159
over the process for many years at this point. We'll get to

00:34:25.160 --> 00:34:27.679
the thanking to Sacha for the automation and to other

00:34:27.680 --> 00:34:30.959
volunteers for all their work, but really, it's really the

00:34:30.960 --> 00:34:34.199
feedback that you give us that allows us to refine the

00:34:34.200 --> 00:34:37.439
process of running the conference. And if it looks smooth

00:34:37.440 --> 00:34:40.359
and all this, well, it's mostly thanks to you, because what

00:34:40.360 --> 00:34:43.559
you believe was smooth, you mentioned as a feedback, and

00:34:43.560 --> 00:34:47.639
then we try to adapt our own processes so that we can match the

00:34:47.640 --> 00:34:50.879
level of smoothness that you expected. So thank you so much.

00:34:50.880 --> 00:34:53.359
Part of the success of EmacsConf is definitely on you.

00:34:53.360 --> 00:34:59.879
So again, if you've got feedback, please include them in the

00:34:59.880 --> 00:35:03.279
pad. When it comes to the stats, as I mentioned, we are

00:35:03.280 --> 00:35:07.519
usually averaging between 150 and 200 viewers. And this

00:35:07.520 --> 00:35:12.079
year, on the two tracks, we managed somehow to peak higher on

00:35:12.080 --> 00:35:14.239
the Dev track than on the Gen track, which is a first for the

00:35:14.240 --> 00:35:16.839
last five years. So that's an interesting tidbit of

00:35:16.840 --> 00:35:20.959
knowledge for you. But yeah, overall we had perhaps 300

00:35:20.960 --> 00:35:22.999
viewers total between the channels, which is amazing

00:35:23.000 --> 00:35:27.039
because you've got 300 people watching you live present and

00:35:27.040 --> 00:35:32.919
so that's a rich experience. All right, moving to the

00:35:32.920 --> 00:35:36.319
thanking section. We have plenty of people to thank without

00:35:36.320 --> 00:35:42.399
whom this conference would not be possible. First, I'd like

00:35:42.400 --> 00:35:45.279
to thank all the speakers, all the volunteers, the

00:35:45.280 --> 00:35:48.399
participants, and all the other people in our lives who make

00:35:48.400 --> 00:35:50.839
it possible through time and support to run this

00:35:50.840 --> 00:35:53.199
conference. Obviously, the speakers I've already

00:35:53.200 --> 00:35:55.959
mentioned, volunteers, you have some of them in the room

00:35:55.960 --> 00:35:59.919
right now. We've got Corwin, we've got Sacha, we also have

00:35:59.920 --> 00:36:02.959
Flowy, but we also have plenty of captioners in the

00:36:02.960 --> 00:36:07.599
background, whom I will get to in just a little while. This

00:36:07.600 --> 00:36:11.239
year's conference hosts are myself, Leo Vivier, and Corwin Brust

00:36:11.240 --> 00:36:16.199
and well not technically not FlowyCoder, not yet at least.

00:36:16.200 --> 00:36:19.719
Flowy, as you know, joined us last year and has been running

00:36:19.720 --> 00:36:22.879
check-ins in the background and we are very thankful for his

00:36:22.880 --> 00:36:27.279
contributions and maybe this afternoon he might be able to

00:36:27.280 --> 00:36:31.719
come. This is a fun process if you want to imagine what it's

00:36:31.720 --> 00:36:35.359
like for us backstage. Imagine, you know, Flowy's like

00:36:35.360 --> 00:36:38.439
getting everybody warmed up, goes in, talks to, gets a

00:36:38.440 --> 00:36:41.879
conversation going, everybody's ready, you know, the

00:36:41.880 --> 00:36:45.079
video is playing of the live stream, he's doing the warm hand

00:36:45.080 --> 00:36:48.279
up, everything ready, checking everything out. And then he

00:36:48.280 --> 00:36:52.439
hands the torch to Leo, or maybe me, and then we get to come in

00:36:52.440 --> 00:36:54.959
and have this amazing conversation based on all the buzz

00:36:54.960 --> 00:36:57.079
that's just been built up, knowing everything works out

00:36:57.080 --> 00:37:00.359
great. And one of these times, what Leo is telling you is that

00:37:00.360 --> 00:37:04.159
Flowy's just going to give Leo or me the cold shoulder and do

00:37:04.160 --> 00:37:07.359
the hosting himself. He did a great job with that last year,

00:37:07.360 --> 00:37:14.119
and we're looking forward to more of that. All right, I'll do

00:37:14.120 --> 00:37:17.039
a quick fire of thankings because we need to soon move on to

00:37:17.040 --> 00:37:21.159
the next talk of the day. I'd also like obviously to thank

00:37:21.160 --> 00:37:25.239
Sacha for managing the two streams and the one stream today

00:37:25.240 --> 00:37:27.279
because she's in the background making sure that

00:37:27.280 --> 00:37:30.519
everything goes all right for all our automation. And

00:37:30.520 --> 00:37:34.759
obviously Flowy again for the check-ins. I want also to thank,

00:37:34.760 --> 00:37:40.639
to extend my thankings, to the proposal review volunteers

00:37:40.640 --> 00:37:44.839
James Howell, Jean-Christophe Helary, and others for

00:37:44.840 --> 00:37:48.119
helping with the early acceptance process. I mentioned

00:37:48.120 --> 00:37:50.839
them, the captioning volunteers, Mark Lewin, Rodrigo

00:37:50.840 --> 00:37:54.319
Morales, Anoush, annona, and James Howell, and some speakers

00:37:54.320 --> 00:37:56.799
who captioned their own talks. I'm thinking about Eduardo

00:37:56.800 --> 00:38:03.359
especially. I guess thanks to me, be weird for me to read

00:38:03.360 --> 00:38:07.399
this, but I'm still going to do this, for fiddling with the

00:38:07.400 --> 00:38:11.199
audio and getting things nicely synced. For those who do not

00:38:11.200 --> 00:38:13.759
know, I also manage, I make sure that the audio is

00:38:13.760 --> 00:38:16.079
normalized, cleaned up, and all this for the conference,

00:38:16.080 --> 00:38:18.479
and usually it's one of the few things that Sacha doesn't

00:38:18.480 --> 00:38:21.959
like doing, and I'm very happy to pick the little crumbs to

00:38:21.960 --> 00:38:26.199
make sure that Emacs is as cool as it can get. Also thanks to

00:38:26.200 --> 00:38:28.759
Bhavin Gandhi, Christopher Howard, Joseph Turner and

00:38:28.760 --> 00:38:30.959
Screwless for quality checking the videos in the

00:38:30.960 --> 00:38:34.359
backstage. Thanks obviously to Shoshin for the music that

00:38:34.360 --> 00:38:36.999
has been accompanying us during the breaks. We've

00:38:37.000 --> 00:38:41.039
mentioned him already, but thanks to Amin Bandali for help

00:38:41.040 --> 00:38:44.999
with infrastructure and communication. Thanks to Ry P for

00:38:45.000 --> 00:38:47.679
the server that we're using for OBS streaming and for

00:38:47.680 --> 00:38:50.719
processing the videos. That's part of the reason why we are

00:38:50.720 --> 00:38:55.879
able to get the titles out so fast. And Corwin already

00:38:55.880 --> 00:38:57.799
mentioned the FSF but thanks to the Free Software

00:38:57.800 --> 00:39:01.079
Foundation for Emacs itself, the mailing list,

00:39:01.080 --> 00:39:05.599
media.emacs.org server where we host the conferences. We

00:39:05.600 --> 00:39:10.799
might have a little word about donations and funding the FSF

00:39:10.800 --> 00:39:14.159
later in the afternoon. I'll make sure that Corbyn

00:39:14.160 --> 00:39:17.919
gets to it. But finally, thanks to the many users and

00:39:17.920 --> 00:39:20.479
commuters to the project and team that create all the

00:39:20.480 --> 00:39:22.879
awesome free software that we use, especially

00:39:22.880 --> 00:39:26.239
BigBlueButton, Etherpad, IceCast, OBS, The Lounge,

00:39:26.240 --> 00:39:30.359
LiberaChat, FFmpeg, OpenAI, Whisper, WhisperX, and the

00:39:30.360 --> 00:39:33.919
Aeneas Forced Alignment Tool site transfer sub. Anyway,

00:39:33.920 --> 00:39:35.559
we're going to get started with the next talk of the day.

00:39:35.560 --> 00:39:38.079
We'll continue with the thankings later on. Enjoy the

00:39:38.080 --> 00:39:43.839
conference. Thanks for tuning in, really appreciate you.

00:39:43.840 --> 00:39:45.508
All right, we are off air.

00:39:45.509 --> 00:39:45.542
So I will go back to Mumble now.

00:39:45.543 --> 00:39:51.734
All right. That was pretty good.

00:39:51.735 --> 00:39:52.875
That was good, right?

00:39:52.876 --> 00:39:55.858
I think that was good. I'm glad we did that.

00:39:55.859 --> 00:39:59.399
Thank you for that. I'm hoping we would do.

00:39:59.400 --> 00:40:02.799
Yeah, sorry. For the people who are still in chat, right now

00:40:02.800 --> 00:40:06.359
we are moving to the next live talk, so feel free to join us

00:40:06.360 --> 00:40:08.839
later. We might stay in this room, we do not know, but we'll

00:40:08.840 --> 00:40:13.360
see you later anyway. Okay, bye-bye.