path: root/2024/captions/emacsconf-2024-color--colour-your-emacs-with-ease--ryota--answers.vtt

WEBVTT

00:00.169 --> 00:01.830
... Org mode and kind of note taking. And that meant that it wasn't

00:02.810 --> 00:08.532
too difficult to get started with. But when I started more on

00:08.972 --> 00:15.474
the coding side, because I'm a software engineer, you know,

00:08.972 --> 00:15.474
on the day job. That kind of got me to think that the colors and

00:16.366 --> 00:24.790
how themes look, how Emacs looks, was affecting. And that's

00:25.331 --> 00:28.973
how it kind of came to picture. So I could have kind of gone

00:29.073 --> 00:36.917
into a little bit more coding side of things, but I didn't

00:29.073 --> 00:36.917
want to stress too much on the talk. So that's why I kind of

00:36.957 --> 00:41.919
stuck to a very small bits of Org Mode and Elisp. And yeah, I

00:42.319 --> 00:45.321
think that's how it came about. Yeah, but that's perfectly

00:46.536 --> 00:48.577
fine. That's one of the chief reasons why we have two tracks

00:49.437 --> 00:52.778
for Emacs content. We've had those for the last four years, I

00:52.798 --> 00:55.059
think. It's because we have a general track, which is more

00:55.119 --> 01:05.442
geared towards people who want a general... well,

00:55.119 --> 01:05.442
generally people who are highly interested into org mode

00:55.119 --> 01:05.442
and not necessarily into coding, but just to whet their

00:55.119 --> 01:05.442
appetite to what can be done. And on the DevTrack, we have,

01:06.082 --> 01:12.986
well, this year we have talked about Rust and about other

01:06.082 --> 01:12.986
fancy things that people can do with Emacs. But, you know,

01:13.006 --> 01:15.768
I'm also a software engineer, you know, we do this all the

01:13.006 --> 01:15.768
time. Sometimes it's just fine to just chat about colors and

01:15.808 --> 01:21.751
just the results of what we develop rather than how the

01:15.808 --> 01:21.751
sausage is made. So that's completely fine too. I'm not sure

NOTE Why colour?

01:23.733 --> 01:32.618
if you mentioned it in your presentation, but why color, out

01:23.733 --> 01:32.618
of all the things you could be ricing on your setup, why were

01:23.733 --> 01:32.618
you so interested about colors? I think it was just that

01:34.870 --> 01:41.176
mainly that I had to do a lot of context switch between

01:34.870 --> 01:41.176
different languages. Elisp is not the one because Elisp is

01:41.576 --> 01:46.600
something that I would do for Emacs editing. But for day job,

01:47.061 --> 01:52.385
I had to use mainly Go as I work with Kubernetes quite a bit. So

01:52.525 --> 01:57.109
Go and also web languages like TypeScript, JavaScript, you

01:58.090 --> 02:13.642
know, those languages, where I felt that whenever I was

01:58.090 --> 02:13.642
switching context to a different language, I felt that it's

01:58.090 --> 02:13.642
kind of annoying to see all the different colors in

01:58.090 --> 02:13.642
languages like TypeScript, where, you know, VS Code way

01:58.090 --> 02:13.642
would be very full of colors. which I felt that, okay, like,

02:14.262 --> 02:23.569
why do I have to have that many different colors on let and

02:14.262 --> 02:23.569
constant or the keywords where it could be just a white text?

02:23.789 --> 02:25.170
It didn't have to be that colorful. So that was the bit, the

02:25.890 --> 02:30.373
most annoying bit when it came to context switching. And I

02:30.974 --> 02:35.197
felt that that just didn't happen in the Org Mode or writing

02:30.974 --> 02:35.197
in general. So I had to find a way to make it work, make more

02:36.017 --> 02:41.481
coding make my coding more kind of friendly to me and that's

02:42.173 --> 02:59.576
when I thought maybe just the colors are something that's

02:42.173 --> 02:59.576
bothering me and it actually was the case and that's how I got

02:42.173 --> 02:59.576
to more into the color kind of journey and got too much into it

02:42.173 --> 02:59.576
I guess. Right, and was it what eventually motivated you to

NOTE What motivated you to learn Elisp and get into the Emacs core?

03:00.535 --> 03:05.778
learn Elisp and to get into the Emacs core? Because it's

03:05.798 --> 03:22.406
funny how you find plenty of people using Emacs in Org Mode

03:05.798 --> 03:22.406
and then they find something that they take particular

03:05.798 --> 03:22.406
issue with, for you it's the color, and then they just go all

03:05.798 --> 03:22.406
in trying to pull the rope as far as they can to try to

03:05.798 --> 03:22.406
understand as much as possible about what code is managing

03:05.798 --> 03:22.406
this part of the application. Like for you it was color, for

03:22.786 --> 03:25.047
me it was the org agenda, I desperately wanted to make Org

03:25.367 --> 03:30.692
Agenda do something that it wasn't able to do. And five

03:31.433 --> 03:36.318
years, well, actually, no, 10 years later, I find myself

03:31.433 --> 03:36.318
hosting Emacs Cons. So, you never know just how far you're

03:36.598 --> 03:39.201
going to be pulling this rope. So, it's really interesting

03:39.561 --> 03:42.224
for me that my call was this. But back to the question, is this

03:42.464 --> 03:48.150
what eventually motivated you to get into Elisp and the core

03:42.464 --> 03:48.150
of Emacs? I think that the original journey to move to Emacs

03:49.798 --> 04:02.250
was around keybindings that I got annoyed with with other

03:49.798 --> 04:02.250
solutions, not just, you know, not speaking of Emacs

03:49.798 --> 04:02.250
keybinding or anything, like anything in general. The main

04:02.870 --> 04:09.797
reason was that I used Dovrak keyboard layout, and that

04:02.870 --> 04:09.797
meant that all the C-c, C-v, C-p, whatever, It just is

04:10.257 --> 04:11.417
all over the place. So I had to find something that could work

04:11.577 --> 04:14.298
for me. And Emacs was a solution that allowed me to do

04:14.898 --> 04:17.499
anything. And that's the kind of the journey that it

04:18.019 --> 04:21.519
originally started. And from there, started tweaking org

04:21.599 --> 04:28.421
mode and writing experience to be tuned to my liking. Color

04:29.101 --> 04:33.682
was another thing that I thought, OK, maybe I could do it

04:29.101 --> 04:33.682
easily with org mode. And when I started to use more of the

04:34.262 --> 04:37.983
coding side of things on Emacs, I felt that, okay, that was

04:39.355 --> 04:41.697
something I needed to solve. So Elisp was always kind of

04:41.877 --> 04:48.022
just a toolkit that, you know, I knew that it was available. I

04:48.322 --> 04:52.105
knew that it would be something that I want to be able to use.

04:52.646 --> 04:58.090
So I think in a way color was a good segue to understand how I

04:52.646 --> 04:58.090
can kind of work out more of a complex logic with the editor

04:59.136 --> 05:07.220
without having to write JavaScript or things that I don't

04:59.136 --> 05:07.220
particularly like. So yeah, I think the journey around the

05:07.440 --> 05:13.583
functional languages, functional kind of programming was

05:07.440 --> 05:13.583
always something that I was keen about. And yeah, the whole

05:13.943 --> 05:16.644
journey kind of made sense for me. And then moving on to the

05:16.984 --> 05:21.246
color was just one way to get more involved in. So I can

05:21.406 --> 05:27.069
totally see that this journey kind of making to a little bit

05:21.406 --> 05:27.069
different angle But yeah, we shall see how that really turns

05:27.669 --> 05:30.972
out. But for now, I think I'm happy with the color setup. Now I

05:33.514 --> 05:35.095
can really focus on the coding. Well, that's all good. And

05:37.156 --> 05:44.162
I'm sure plenty of people listening to you now, you know,

05:37.156 --> 05:44.162
find this relatable, how they eventually got into

05:37.156 --> 05:44.162
programming. Like for you, you did say that you were a

05:44.222 --> 05:47.745
software engineer now. But I found plenty of people,

05:48.705 --> 05:53.469
especially doing workshops, that just started you know,

05:54.339 --> 06:01.267
their software engineering journey just with Emacs and

05:54.339 --> 06:01.267
they just realized they were doing something completely

05:54.339 --> 06:01.267
different, like I was studying humanities. But then you

06:01.787 --> 00:06:02.687
touch Emacs and you realize, yeah, this whole programming

06:01.787 --> 06:06.693
shtick is actually pretty damn cool.

00:06:07.280 --> 00:06:09.399
And then you find yourself again,

00:06:09.400 --> 00:06:11.039
five to 10 years later, becoming a software

00:06:11.040 --> 00:06:12.919
engineer. So yeah, that's all good.

00:06:12.920 --> 00:06:14.519
So we do have a couple of

00:06:14.520 --> 00:06:18.439
questions and I'd like to move into them so that I, I mean,

00:06:18.440 --> 00:06:22.439
people have questions and for me it's okay for me to chat with

00:06:22.440 --> 00:06:25.119
you but obviously it's better if people ask you the question

00:06:25.120 --> 00:06:27.679
themselves. And again, if you want to ask questions to Ryota

00:06:27.680 --> 00:06:31.079
directly, feel free to join us on BBB and whenever we're done

00:06:31.080 --> 00:06:33.519
with the questions on the pad, I'm more than happy

00:06:33.520 --> 00:06:34.444
to let you ask your questions live.

NOTE Q: Is there any intention to create a library for working with more experimental color spaces? Pulling code out of Hasliberg for this purpose, perhaps?

06:35.982 --> 00:06:37.902
All right, so starting with the first question,

00:06:37.903 --> 00:06:45.108
is there any intention to create a library

00:06:37.903 --> 06:45.108
for working with more experimental color spaces, pulling

06:35.982 --> 06:45.108
code out of Hasliberg for this purpose, perhaps? Although I

06:45.329 --> 06:46.049
do not know. Hasliberg, you might? Yeah, Hasliberg. And to

06:49.692 --> 06:50.892
answer the question, started the journey just for myself

06:52.859 --> 07:04.331
and I didn't think that it would be actually useful for other

06:52.859 --> 07:04.331
use cases and this conference talk just came about kind of

06:52.859 --> 07:04.331
out of sheer luck really. So the idea I think I can definitely

07:04.771 --> 07:14.501
work it out and I don't think there will be too, the original

07:04.771 --> 07:14.501
code that I started with was I had to use some color space and I

07:15.931 --> 07:21.595
started with sRGB and then went to HSL and then went to LCH. So

07:21.996 --> 07:24.678
I think there has been quite a bit that I learned from it. At

07:25.458 --> 07:33.885
the same time, I may be tempted to actually maybe perhaps

07:25.458 --> 07:33.885
contribute back to ct.el rather than creating my own. I

07:34.105 --> 07:36.227
think that would make more sense perhaps.

07:36.607 --> 00:07:39.548
But for my own kind of taste that I thought

00:07:39.549 --> 00:07:42.891
that it would be something I can work out in my theme,

00:07:42.892 --> 00:07:44.273
but I don't have any I think, you know, making a

07:45.813 --> 07:53.975
library is definitely something that I can think about, but

07:45.813 --> 07:53.975
perhaps maybe making it too many packages isn't exactly

07:45.813 --> 07:53.975
what I want. But for my own use case, I think I just wanted to

07:55.175 --> 08:06.317
have something that just didn't have any external

07:55.175 --> 08:06.317
dependency so that I can use the vanilla Emacs with my

07:55.175 --> 08:06.317
colors. I think that's how it started, but I'm definitely up

08:06.757 --> 08:11.558
for it if there is interest about it. Yeah, well, thank you

08:12.622 --> 00:08:13.615
for this. It's always good to contribute.

00:08:16.040 --> 00:08:16.399
I'm tempted to say

00:08:16.400 --> 00:08:18.679
that's how they get you. You know, you do something really

00:08:18.680 --> 00:08:24.799
cool and you share it with people and they have the, you know,

00:08:24.800 --> 00:08:27.080
they just ask you, oh, do you have your code online? And you

08:27.166 --> 08:28.667
realize, no, I haven't pushed it. And then they start

08:28.707 --> 08:30.107
pressing you on. well, you need to do this, this is amazing

08:30.287 --> 08:33.349
and you need to share it. You know, I had plenty of people ask

08:33.849 --> 08:41.735
me to share my dot files when I was tackling the org agenda

08:33.849 --> 08:41.735
issue that I mentioned earlier. And yeah, eventually when

08:42.575 --> 08:54.243
you get to publishing your stuff, you also feel great

08:42.575 --> 08:54.243
because you're putting a little bit of your intelligence

08:42.575 --> 08:54.243
into the world and it can be the start of the journey for

08:42.575 --> 08:54.243
someone else. You know, maybe someone will find your

08:54.283 --> 08:59.867
library at some point and realize, yeah, I wanted to do

08:54.283 --> 08:59.867
something slightly differently. and then they either

09:00.387 --> 09:10.793
contribute to a library or they make their own but it's a

09:00.387 --> 09:10.793
complete journey that starts with just people taking the

09:00.387 --> 09:10.793
time to publish the content of the brain basically. Yeah,

09:11.894 --> 09:13.354
that's the power of open source now. It's just how we really

09:13.654 --> 09:21.276
appreciate the open source culture being cultivated

09:13.654 --> 09:21.276
throughout so many years. And yeah, this is something that

09:21.736 --> 09:24.337
I'm definitely keen about. So yeah, open for suggestions.

09:26.618 --> 09:29.298
And exactly, that's how I started with the journey. And

00:09:29.760 --> 00:09:33.559
yeah, while this is very experimental and very personal,

00:09:33.560 --> 00:09:38.239
yeah, I'm not, you know, tied down to one particular way

00:09:38.240 --> 00:09:41.679
only. So yeah we'll be open to suggestions like this one

00:09:41.680 --> 00:09:44.839
which I would definitely think about. Yeah that's amazing

00:09:44.840 --> 00:09:46.879
and just to be clear you know this is not a there's no

00:09:46.880 --> 00:09:47.840
incentive one. I'm not pushing you to publish your library.

09:51.070 --> 09:57.595
You know it was very personal for you and at the end if you

09:51.070 --> 09:57.595
believe it might be useful for others it's a nice thing to

09:51.070 --> 09:57.595
eventually think about publishing it. But just the fact

09:58.056 --> 10:00.117
that you showed up at EmacsConf... Sorry, I'm

10:01.278 --> 00:10:02.698
starting to lose my voice on the morning

00:10:02.699 --> 00:10:03.280
of the first day. That's

10:03.520 --> 00:10:08.559
not boding well for the two next days. I mean, just one day.

00:10:08.560 --> 00:10:10.079
But just the

00:10:10.080 --> 00:10:13.279
fact that you're showing up at EmacsConf and sharing about

00:10:13.280 --> 00:10:17.119
all of this, the process, how you got to it eventually, it's

00:10:17.120 --> 00:10:19.439
also a part of sharing. And I think it's also amazing in its

00:10:19.440 --> 00:10:26.039
own way. Absolutely. Okay, I'm going to try to read the next

00:10:26.040 --> 00:10:31.719
question and then try to cough a little bit. So can we have...

00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:36.919
Oh, sorry, Bala. Sorry. I was the one who asked the question.

00:10:36.920 --> 00:10:40.120
I thought I could ask it live here rather than... Thank you.

10:40.188 --> 10:41.368
I'll go cough a little bit. So here I am. Thanks, Ryota, for

10:45.050 --> 10:47.190
the nice talk. This is great. I loved it. Your attention to

10:49.531 --> 00:10:50.140
detail was awesome.

NOTE Q: Can we have a dark as well as light theme variations made from your theme?

00:10:51.880 --> 00:10:55.079
So I was just looking at the code and I was

00:10:55.080 --> 00:10:58.839
wondering, do you have a dark and a light theme variation

00:10:58.840 --> 00:11:02.479
which can be made from your theme? Or do you have to customize

00:11:02.480 --> 00:11:05.519
it every time? That was my question. And thanks for that.

00:11:05.520 --> 00:11:07.640
Thank you very much. I appreciate your feedback and

00:11:10.240 --> 00:11:15.079
questions. So to answer the question, the short answer is

00:11:15.080 --> 00:11:18.639
that I do have both dark and light themes with some sorts of

00:11:18.640 --> 00:11:22.199
standard colors that I personally liked. And there were a

00:11:22.200 --> 00:11:26.719
few things that I showed in the demo. where I showed, I think,

00:11:26.720 --> 00:11:30.039
three different dark theme colors. So light theme is

00:11:30.040 --> 00:11:31.440
definitely something that I can do.

00:11:31.800 --> 00:11:33.879
And the idea around Hasliberg theme

00:11:33.880 --> 00:11:36.359
and just my theming in general was that

00:11:36.360 --> 00:11:39.679
when I feel like I want to work in dark theme and when I want to

00:11:39.680 --> 00:11:42.440
work in the standard way, I would just use the standard color.

00:11:42.480 --> 00:11:44.959
But when I feel like maybe it's just so cold that I want

00:11:44.960 --> 00:11:49.399
to have a bit of a warm colors near me, I would use the orange

00:11:49.400 --> 00:11:52.359
theme, without changing too much of the kind of general

00:11:52.360 --> 00:11:55.679
feeling and experience. So that can be said for the light

00:11:55.680 --> 00:11:58.959
theme as well. So there is something and the kind of

00:11:58.960 --> 00:12:04.919
customization isn't that difficult to extend. So I do have

00:12:04.920 --> 00:12:09.079
both dark and light, but primarily I'm just looking at the

00:12:09.080 --> 00:12:10.239
dark theme as my main driver. But yeah, they are both

00:12:10.240 --> 00:12:13.240
available. Great. Thank you so much. I will definitely try

00:12:18.208 --> 12:18.865
your theme out. I'm definitely on the lookout for a nice,

12:19.205 --> 12:22.426
friendly theme. Thank you very much. As I said, this is a

12:25.388 --> 12:27.429
personal theme. I'm not sure if it really fits everyone's

12:29.089 --> 12:42.816
need, but it is one inspiration that I hope that can lead to

12:29.089 --> 12:42.816
another nice theming that could work for someone

12:29.089 --> 12:42.816
specifically for some use cases. I don't have to solve

12:42.996 --> 12:44.977
everyone's problem. Yeah, and I mean, it was sufficient to

12:46.553 --> 12:49.715
be inspirational to people. I mean, just Bala just

12:49.755 --> 12:58.619
mentioned it right now, but I'm sure plenty of people who

12:49.755 --> 12:58.619
watched live, but also people will be watching in the

12:49.755 --> 12:58.619
future, will have the interest to speak by what you've done.

12:58.699 --> 13:00.040
So thank you again so much for this. Yep. All right, well, I

13:04.102 --> 13:06.603
don't see any further questions. So I suggest we move

13:07.083 --> 13:10.525
towards closure. Ryota, do you have any last words? No, I

13:13.775 --> 13:14.175
don't. So yeah, thank you very much for attending. And it was

13:16.577 --> 13:18.979
great fun putting this together. And I really didn't think

13:19.299 --> 13:27.545
that I would be talking about my personal colors and

13:19.299 --> 13:27.545
personal favorites, like orange being my favorite color.

13:27.845 --> 13:31.228
This wouldn't be something that I would say out in any

13:27.845 --> 13:31.228
conference, to be honest. But it just came out to be. And

13:33.890 --> 13:35.491
happy that I had a chance. So thank you very much for giving me

13:35.651 --> 13:39.154
the opportunity to talk. in this amazing conference and

13:39.574 --> 13:52.473
yeah I can't just wait to check out other talks which you know

13:39.574 --> 13:52.473
I know that there isn't you know other talks that are

13:39.574 --> 13:52.473
happening right now I was actually wanted to to join them and

13:39.574 --> 13:52.473
check check that out so I will probably do that right now.

13:53.419 --> 13:53.899
Well, sure. Well, I won't hold you any longer then. Thank

13:56.401 --> 13:56.741
you. For me, it was just amazing to, you know, generally when

13:57.682 --> 14:03.285
you ask someone what their favorite color, you know, they

13:57.682 --> 14:03.285
just tell you orange or blue or whatever. They don't go then

14:03.586 --> 14:10.690
to chat about 20 minutes about their favorite color and how

14:03.586 --> 14:10.690
they tuned their entire editor to work exactly around their

14:03.586 --> 14:10.690
favorite colors. So it was inspiring. And I also want to try

14:12.912 --> 14:21.057
it out, frankly, because my theme has been utterly bad for

14:12.912 --> 14:21.057
the last five years and I need some change into my life. All

14:21.497 --> 14:21.677
right. Thank you so much for your time. Thank you very much,

14:23.629 --> 14:24.654
everyone. Cheers. Bye-bye.