Q&A transcript (unedited)

[[!template text="""[oops, forgot to start] object protocol has a scheme implementation.""" start="00:00:00.000" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Does this mean schemacs will be""" start="00:00:03.840" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""meta object changeable in practice?""" start="00:00:07.160" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So I don't actually need the meta object protocol so far.""" start="00:00:11.080" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""In the reference implementation for Guile,""" start="00:00:16.600" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Guile has its own object-oriented system called Goops.""" start="00:00:19.280" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I'm sorry, I'm hearing a delay.""" start="00:00:27.560" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Anyway, I'm going to turn off my stream quick. There we go.""" start="00:00:29.240" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So, um. Yes, uh, I, I don't I wasn't aware of the, um.""" start="00:00:32.520" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""the meta-object protocol that you have mentioned here,""" start="00:00:39.440" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but I will look into it.""" start="00:00:43.920" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I know that there isn't really a standard""" start="00:00:45.960" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""meta-object protocol for Scheme.""" start="00:00:48.720" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""That was an issue for me""" start="00:00:52.120" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""because I'm trying to make this cross-platform,""" start="00:00:53.520" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and so I've done all of my work so far""" start="00:00:56.920" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""without a meta-object protocol""" start="00:00:59.640" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""because that's the easiest way to make it work""" start="00:01:00.960" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""on multiple Scheme implementations.""" start="00:01:02.440" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""But if there is a nice portable one""" start="00:01:04.880" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that works on many implementations, I would use that, yes.""" start="00:01:07.360" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""It's just that so far it hasn't been necessary.""" start="00:01:12.560" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I've been doing mostly functional reactive programming""" start="00:01:15.000" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and React.js-like framework.""" start="00:01:19.280" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I've created that for the GUI front end.""" start="00:01:21.080" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And that's all the more I've needed so far.""" start="00:01:23.240" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So, yeah. Oh, yeah, please, next question. Sure.""" start="00:01:26.200" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So how will the GUI display code be R7RS compliant?""" start="00:01:33.400" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""As far as I know, there's no DL open in R7RS. That's right.""" start="00:01:39.600" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Yeah, R7RS small is extremely small""" start="00:01:45.080" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and does not have any features at all.""" start="00:01:48.880" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""But it does provide a conv expand macro.""" start="00:01:50.440" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And this allows you to load in different code""" start="00:01:54.800" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""depending on which scheme implementation you're using.""" start="00:01:57.640" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So basically, I'll have to write a different back end""" start="00:02:00.880" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""for each scheme implementation.""" start="00:02:03.360" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And I think that's really""" start="00:02:05.280" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""the only way is possible at all,""" start="00:02:06.640" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""because there's no standardization.""" start="00:02:10.920" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So essentially, the libraries""" start="00:02:12.720" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that I've written for schemacs""" start="00:02:14.440" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""will become kind of a platform-independent way""" start="00:02:15.720" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""of writing GUIs for Scheme.""" start="00:02:22.440" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""It's just a matter of,""" start="00:02:25.840" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""will your Scheme implementation""" start="00:02:27.120" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""support the Schemacs GUI protocol?""" start="00:02:28.680" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So I've kind of written my own protocol,""" start="00:02:32.280" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and it's entirely R7 RSML compliant.""" start="00:02:34.200" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""It's all done with record,""" start="00:02:36.680" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""what are they called, record types.""" start="00:02:38.240" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Do you think some of the Schemacs""" start="00:02:43.040" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""could be extracted into SFRIs since you've made it portable""" start="00:02:46.520" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""between scheme implementations?""" start="00:02:50.680" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Yes, I would definitely like to do that.""" start="00:02:52.880" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Probably first thing I'll do is start splitting up""" start="00:02:55.280" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and publishing independent libraries""" start="00:02:59.240" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""on the Aku package manager.""" start="00:03:01.680" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""This is a kind of a package manager ecosystem for Scheme,""" start="00:03:04.320" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and in particular R7RS Scheme.""" start="00:03:07.640" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And it's also mirrored on the other package manager,""" start="00:03:11.680" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Snowfort, just by the way.""" start="00:03:15.240" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""But yeah, and then I might be also,""" start="00:03:18.280" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I've considered creating a SRFI for the lens library,""" start="00:03:21.360" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""which is based on the Haskell lens library.""" start="00:03:25.080" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I don't think that exists yet in Scheme,""" start="00:03:27.400" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""so I thought that might make a good SRFI.""" start="00:03:29.840" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Is there a recommended Scheme implementation?""" start="00:03:34.320" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Guile is the reference implementation.""" start="00:03:36.720" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""It's the only one that works with GUI,""" start="00:03:44.560" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but as I demonstrated in my presentation,""" start="00:03:47.280" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""the Emacs Lisp interpreter""" start="00:03:51.360" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""works on multiple schemes so far,""" start="00:03:52.600" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and I've had trouble with some of the scheme compilers.""" start="00:03:55.080" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""But yeah, I would recommend Guile.""" start="00:04:00.040" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""But how would schemacs deal with""" start="00:04:04.840" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Emacs's re-display architecture""" start="00:04:07.720" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""will be having its own display architecture?""" start="00:04:10.040" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And if so, how will you handle""" start="00:04:13.160" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""things like overlays and images?""" start="00:04:15.360" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Yeah, definitely. That's to be determined.""" start="00:04:18.480" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So basically, the scheme way of doing things""" start="00:04:25.240" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So, I've created this React-like programming framework.""" start="00:04:31.280" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""It's like ReactJS or Vue.js.""" start="00:04:36.640" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""That is just the API of how you write GUI code in Scheme.""" start="00:04:41.000" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And each Scheme implementation""" start="00:04:45.120" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""will have its own GUI backend,""" start="00:04:49.720" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""which implements that Protocol.""" start="00:04:52.280" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And so when it comes time to link""" start="00:04:55.600" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""the Emacs Lisp built-in functions""" start="00:04:59.200" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that do these things like overlays and so on,""" start="00:05:03.080" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""we're going to have to come up with some way""" start="00:05:08.280" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""of modeling that""" start="00:05:11.080" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""using the scheme framework that I've designed.""" start="00:05:12.080" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And I may have to make alterations""" start="00:05:15.800" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""specifically to support Emacs Lisp.""" start="00:05:17.600" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I don't know yet. I haven't got that far.""" start="00:05:22.040" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""You were saying that you would like""" start="00:05:28.560" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""to get the most out of the 1300""" start="00:05:30.080" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and something Emacs packages that exist.""" start="00:05:33.480" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Are there technical blockers to doing them all""" start="00:05:36.520" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""or just a problem of getting enough people to jump into it?""" start="00:05:38.760" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Yeah, it's just a matter of implementing enough""" start="00:05:44.040" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""of the Emacs built-in functions.""" start="00:05:48.640" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Right now, there's kind of a big bug.""" start="00:05:50.840" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I mentioned this also in the presentation.""" start="00:05:57.080" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""The stacks trace that you saw during my presentation,""" start="00:05:59.360" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that is the biggest bug right now""" start="00:06:02.600" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that's preventing me from running most other code.""" start="00:06:05.800" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And I don't think other people""" start="00:06:08.160" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""will be able to contribute to the code base""" start="00:06:10.360" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""until I get that bug fixed,""" start="00:06:13.040" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""because it doesn't capture closures correctly.""" start="00:06:14.560" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""it doesn't behave like Emacs Lisp does,""" start="00:06:18.680" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and that's the big problem.""" start="00:06:22.520" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So once I get that worked out,""" start="00:06:26.960" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""then it's just a matter of implementing enough""" start="00:06:31.760" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""of the EmacsLisp built-in functions,""" start="00:06:35.600" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""these are the functions that are mostly implemented in C,""" start="00:06:37.880" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""implementing those in Scheme.""" start="00:06:40.680" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And that, yeah, that's the thing""" start="00:06:42.880" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that I'm going to need a lot of help with""" start="00:06:45.960" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""because there's quite a few of those APIs.""" start="00:06:47.840" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""But I imagine, I have no idea, no way of knowing,""" start="00:06:49.720" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but I imagine we don't need 100% of them""" start="00:06:53.520" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""in order to run most of Elpa.""" start="00:06:56.460" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""We probably can get some of the important large Elpa packages""" start="00:06:58.168" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""like Magit and Org mode with just enough of the Emacs Lisp""" start="00:07:05.085" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""built-in functions to handle that.""" start="00:07:12.720" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""But we won't really know until we've tried.""" start="00:07:14.960" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So yeah, I'll try to get this bug fixed right away.""" start="00:07:19.280" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""That way we can all start working on it together, hopefully.""" start="00:07:22.520" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Highly relatable answer there.""" start="00:07:24.980" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""We'll burn that bridge when we're on it or something.""" start="00:07:27.127" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""What are your thoughts on chicken scheme?""" start="00:07:31.960" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Will that be a good fit? Do you think?""" start="00:07:34.560" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I think it will be, um, I, I did show""" start="00:07:37.200" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""trying to run chicken scheme in my, um, presentation""" start="00:07:41.040" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and, uh, I ran up against some kind of issue,""" start="00:07:44.960" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""which I really don't know how to debug.""" start="00:07:48.840" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Um, it's probably something to do with the, uh, pattern matcher.""" start="00:07:51.080" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Um, I'm using the pattern matcher,""" start="00:07:55.880" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""uh, written by Alex shin,""" start="00:07:58.920" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""which seems to be the most portable.""" start="00:08:00.600" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Pattern matcher, uh, for our seven RS scheme.""" start="00:08:02.600" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""But not all scheme compilers implement, what is it called?""" start="00:08:05.920" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""The macro, I can't remember what it's called.""" start="00:08:13.520" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""There's the macro expansion system for R7 RS small.""" start="00:08:19.560" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""All of these scheme implementations""" start="00:08:24.200" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""seem to have a slightly different take on how they work.""" start="00:08:27.200" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And so that macro expander has been, for pattern matching,""" start="00:08:29.320" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""has been the biggest difficulty""" start="00:08:33.920" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""in making this code portable.""" start="00:08:35.720" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And so I'm thinking of ways of maybe trying to ditch pattern matching,""" start="00:08:37.360" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but that's such a useful feature and it's hard.""" start="00:08:42.240" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So I don't know, we'll see if I can,""" start="00:08:45.000" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""if somebody can help me get it to work on chicken team,""" start="00:08:49.880" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I'd really appreciate it.""" start="00:08:52.440" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Can this implementation be used by Guile's Emacs Lisp mode?""" start="00:08:56.600" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Guile's Emacs list mode. Okay. Yeah, good question.""" start="00:09:01.800" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I did mention this last year in my presentation.""" start="00:09:08.200" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Emacs list in Guile is totally different""" start="00:09:10.920" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""from what I've done.""" start="00:09:13.720" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""That implementation was written about 10 or 15 years ago.""" start="00:09:16.200" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I can't remember exactly when. It is quite incomplete.""" start="00:09:21.293" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I don't think it even runs most of the macro expanding code.""" start="00:09:26.502" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Some of the code that is written""" start="00:09:36.543" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""for GNU Emacs in Emacs Lisp,""" start="00:09:39.680" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""where GNU Emacs is initializing itself,""" start="00:09:42.480" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""it can't even get the first file in that code.""" start="00:09:45.680" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""It hasn't been touched in 10 or 15 years.""" start="00:09:51.320" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Initially, when I first started this project,""" start="00:09:53.480" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I was using the parser""" start="00:09:57.240" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""for Guile's Emacs Lisp implementation,""" start="00:09:59.160" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but it didn't give me things like source locations,""" start="00:10:02.320" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""so I had to rewrite that. And also, it wasn't portable.""" start="00:10:05.320" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So yeah, because I want it to be portable,""" start="00:10:10.640" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""it's necessarily going to be not reliant""" start="00:10:14.280" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""on anything that's inside of the Guile library,""" start="00:10:16.920" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""including the Emacs LISP interpreter that's there.""" start="00:10:19.120" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Maybe I could replace the Emacs LISP interpreter in Guile""" start="00:10:21.480" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""if Andy Wingo would be interested. All right.""" start="00:10:24.960" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And I see we've got a few people""" start="00:10:29.600" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that did jump into the BBB.""" start="00:10:31.600" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I'm just going to quickly, oops.""" start="00:10:34.040" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""quickly try to make my text a little bigger""" start="00:10:37.160" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""so I can read a question that came here.""" start="00:10:40.680" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I wonder if we can do some sort of pragmatic analysis""" start="00:10:42.800" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""on popular Emacs packages""" start="00:10:48.480" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""to see what list of functions they tend to depend on""" start="00:10:49.960" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""while a function calls down to the lower level.""" start="00:10:52.400" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Yeah, that would be good.""" start="00:10:54.800" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Somebody please do that for me. Awesome.""" start="00:10:57.210" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Somebody's raising their hand. Divya.""" start="00:11:02.252" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Let's see. Yeah, can you hear me?""" start="00:11:05.440" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Yes, I can. Yeah, go ahead. Hello, thank you.""" start="00:11:08.800" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Yeah, this is really awesome.""" start="00:11:12.360" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I use Guile, and I love Guile,""" start="00:11:14.080" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and I also love functional programming,""" start="00:11:16.960" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""so this is really nice that you took""" start="00:11:18.920" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""the declarative approach.""" start="00:11:21.600" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""One thing that I'm interested in is,""" start="00:11:22.720" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""are you also considering Racket in the scheme group?""" start="00:11:26.320" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Because I know a lot of people do not consider Racket""" start="00:11:29.840" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""as a sort of scheme thing, because it grew out of it.""" start="00:11:32.960" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Do you think you'll take something from Racket?""" start="00:11:36.640" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Because I think Racket has""" start="00:11:39.520" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""a lot of good ideas that can be used.""" start="00:11:42.120" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Yeah, I briefly looked at Racket's GUI library,""" start="00:11:44.520" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but it's very, very heavily dependent""" start="00:11:48.440" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""on Racket's macro expander,""" start="00:11:51.880" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""which is, well, yeah, the macro expander""" start="00:11:53.840" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""is extremely complex for Racket,""" start="00:11:57.680" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and I don't think it's possible to port it to any other scheme,""" start="00:11:59.680" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""as far as I know. But Racket is based on SheaScheme.""" start="00:12:02.160" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And I am making an effort to port my code to Shea's scheme.""" start="00:12:07.680" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I mentioned this earlier,""" start="00:12:14.480" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but there's the Gwen Weinholdt Aku system,""" start="00:12:18.640" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""which allows you to translate R7RS to R6RS.""" start="00:12:22.160" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And since Shea is an R6RS compiler,""" start="00:12:25.440" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I did at one point get the Emacs Lisp interpreter""" start="00:12:28.520" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""to compile for Shea,""" start="00:12:33.920" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""although I think There's been a change""" start="00:12:34.920" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""either to Aku or somewhere in my own code base.""" start="00:12:38.240" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""It doesn't build anymore, and I'm not sure why.""" start="00:12:40.480" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""But I would also very much like to run this on Che.""" start="00:12:42.880" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And I guess in that sense, we'll be able to work on Racket as well.""" start="00:12:47.040" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""There's also one other option.""" start="00:12:54.680" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Alexis King has written an R7RS language package for Racket.""" start="00:12:56.200" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I have not yet tried.""" start="00:13:03.520" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""running my package on R7RS for Racket.""" start="00:13:05.040" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""But that would be something interesting.""" start="00:13:08.480" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Yes, I would like to try that.""" start="00:13:11.600" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Yeah, it'll be interesting.""" start="00:13:12.920" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I do have some experience with chairs.""" start="00:13:13.920" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So, uh, if I can find some time,""" start="00:13:15.840" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I'll, I'll, I'll certainly like to, I would appreciate.""" start="00:13:17.480" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Yes. Yeah. Go ahead. Yeah.""" start="00:13:21.240" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Another question I have is, like,""" start="00:13:24.040" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""what exactly is sort of, like, the, the approach is that""" start="00:13:26.080" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""you'll 1st want to do the interpreter""" start="00:13:29.200" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and then have enough list functions.""" start="00:13:31.480" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Uh, getting the max list functions""" start="00:13:33.800" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""interpreted or interpretable.""" start="00:13:36.480" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And then go for GUI or do you want""" start="00:13:38.120" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""to sort of like go hand in hand""" start="00:13:41.000" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""is like we have the interpreter working on""" start="00:13:42.760" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and we have also the GUI""" start="00:13:45.680" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and we sort of use one for the other.""" start="00:13:46.960" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Yeah, I consider the two tasks to be parallel.""" start="00:13:53.200" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So I'm actually doing the GUI separately.""" start="00:13:56.480" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""The reason why is because the GUI for Schemacs""" start="00:13:59.640" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""is really just a clone of the look and feel of Emacs.""" start="00:14:05.520" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""It's not like an actual clone of the low-level C code""" start="00:14:10.280" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that puts everything on screen.""" start="00:14:14.680" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And I'm actually not really that interested""" start="00:14:16.040" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""in the low-level details""" start="00:14:18.680" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""of how Emacs draws things on screen either.""" start="00:14:21.440" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I think it has a lot of historical baggage,""" start="00:14:23.480" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and I'm actually trying to move away from that.""" start="00:14:26.840" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So that was part of the reason why I started""" start="00:14:28.840" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""with this React.js or Vue.js-like Reactive GUI framework.""" start="00:14:31.760" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So that GUI part is completely separate.""" start="00:14:36.400" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And I want to worry about the details""" start="00:14:39.520" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""of how we make the GUI look and feel""" start="00:14:42.240" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""similar in Schemacs, similar to GNU Emacs.""" start="00:14:46.720" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""In Schemacs, using the Emacs programming language,""" start="00:14:50.320" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I think that's something that we should worried about""" start="00:14:54.800" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""after we have enough of the Emacs list implemented.""" start="00:14:59.320" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Yeah, that makes sense.""" start="00:15:03.400" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""There are sort of, I'm a bit worried.""" start="00:15:04.920" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So, I don't know if, so one of my presentations""" start="00:15:06.680" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""is going to be tomorrow.""" start="00:15:10.600" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I'm working on something called Emacs Viewer.""" start="00:15:11.480" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""It's a document viewer in Emacs.""" start="00:15:13.120" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And essentially one of the issues that I'm up against""" start="00:15:15.320" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""is that Emacs's display system""" start="00:15:17.680" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""is sort of very let's say, not flexible.""" start="00:15:20.360" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""When trying to analyze where this inflexibility comes from,""" start="00:15:25.440" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I don't think it's just the display architecture.""" start="00:15:31.840" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I think parts of eLISP itself""" start="00:15:35.760" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""are connected to the display architecture.""" start="00:15:38.320" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""The notion of a cell in a buffer,""" start="00:15:43.600" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""itself is connected tightly to""" start="00:15:48.400" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""how the re-display architecture works.""" start="00:15:52.200" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So I think you'll have to sort of figure out""" start="00:15:54.520" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""what exactly you can salvage from ELISP""" start="00:15:57.200" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""without taking the display architecture baggage.""" start="00:16:00.680" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""That's right. I do anticipate""" start="00:16:05.200" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that's going to be fairly challenging.""" start="00:16:08.002" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""It's all Turing-complete,""" start="00:16:09.877" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""so I imagine we're probably going to end up""" start="00:16:14.585" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""creating something like an emulator""" start="00:16:17.880" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""for the Emacs Lisp display architecture in Scheme""" start="00:16:21.040" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that will somehow translate down""" start="00:16:24.320" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""to the React-like protocol that I've written.""" start="00:16:27.560" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""But yeah, I don't I haven't that's nice.""" start="00:16:30.040" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""No, this is this is very exciting. Yeah. Oh Yes, it is.""" start="00:16:32.720" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Yeah, I'm glad so like a lot of people have told me""" start="00:16:36.320" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that they really Are excited to see this project""" start="00:16:39.560" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and this really helps me""" start="00:16:41.680" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""You know keep focused on this project""" start="00:16:42.720" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""because a lot of people are very interested.""" start="00:16:46.400" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So It's so I'd like to move on""" start="00:16:48.320" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""to a couple of questions from the past.""" start="00:16:50.360" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""We're starting to build up a good backlog.""" start="00:16:52.160" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Thank you for that. Yeah Next question from the pad I have.""" start="00:16:54.480" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Can you tell us more about the show stopping bug?""" start="00:16:59.720" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""How to squash it? How can people help?""" start="00:17:02.240" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""OK, well, that one, unfortunately, I think,""" start="00:17:04.160" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""unless you're really a scheme genius""" start="00:17:08.800" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and you can really read my code""" start="00:17:11.680" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and immediately understand how it all works,""" start="00:17:13.800" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I don't think you'd be able to help.""" start="00:17:15.480" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""It shouldn't be too difficult for me to fix.""" start="00:17:18.320" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So it has to do with how closures work.""" start="00:17:22.600" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And a closure is basically an object""" start="00:17:26.640" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that can be created with stuff that's on the stack.""" start="00:17:30.720" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And this is a feature, I think,""" start="00:17:33.160" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that was introduced with Emacs 27.""" start="00:17:37.080" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I can't remember exactly,""" start="00:17:39.680" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but it's actually a relatively recent feature.""" start="00:17:40.880" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""It was ever since they introduced""" start="00:17:43.440" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""lexically scoped variable bindings in Emacs Lisp.""" start="00:17:45.880" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And so yeah, the problem is that""" start="00:17:51.000" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""when you create like a let structure""" start="00:17:54.520" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and you could declare a variable in the let.""" start="00:17:59.840" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And then you create inside of that a second let structure,""" start="00:18:01.800" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and you have a lambda inside of that.""" start="00:18:05.400" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And the lambda references or uses a variable""" start="00:18:07.240" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that was declared in the outer let binding.""" start="00:18:11.320" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""That outer let binding is somewhere on the stack.""" start="00:18:14.400" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And the lambda you can actually return it as a value.""" start="00:18:18.280" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So when you do return that lambda,""" start="00:18:23.000" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""it has to have a note somewhere inside""" start="00:18:25.320" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that says, by the way, I'm using that variable.""" start="00:18:27.680" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So you need to capture it and restore it to the stack""" start="00:18:31.280" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""whenever this lambda is applied, whenever you execute it.""" start="00:18:34.360" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And that is where the error is.""" start="00:18:38.200" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""It's not capturing the stack variable properly.""" start="00:18:40.960" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And I think what I'm going to do,""" start="00:18:44.400" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I haven't looked into it in detail yet""" start="00:18:46.880" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""because I've gone back to GUI stuff recently,""" start="00:18:49.760" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but what I'm going to do, I think,""" start="00:18:53.280" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""is just do a static analysis""" start="00:18:55.480" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""of the code inside of the Lambda""" start="00:18:57.800" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and see which symbols are being used,""" start="00:18:59.080" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and then just capture all of those""" start="00:19:02.920" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and place those into the record type""" start="00:19:05.080" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that stores the lambda.""" start="00:19:07.560" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""That's how I'm going to fix that, I think.""" start="00:19:09.520" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I hope anyway that's going to work.""" start="00:19:12.680" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""You never know with bugs.""" start="00:19:16.000" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""They're always a little bit tricky. Okay, next question.""" start="00:19:17.240" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Are there performance concerns""" start="00:19:21.760" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""with implementing certain C primitives in PeerScheme?""" start="00:19:23.120" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So who is it? The famous computer scientist that said""" start="00:19:28.480" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""premature optimization is the root of all evil.""" start="00:19:32.880" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I think it was the guy who invented the A star algorithm.""" start="00:19:35.880" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""His name escapes me at the minute.""" start="00:19:39.800" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""But yeah, I'm not concerned about performance yet,""" start="00:19:42.720" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""although most of the scheme compilers that I have seen,""" start="00:19:49.360" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""especially Shea and Gambit""" start="00:19:52.120" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""have extremely good performance characteristics.""" start="00:19:57.000" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And so I think there won't be""" start="00:20:02.040" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""too much difficulty with performance,""" start="00:20:03.680" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""even implementing some of the C stuff.""" start="00:20:05.880" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And besides, a lot of the GUI stuff""" start="00:20:08.760" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""is already written in C anyway.""" start="00:20:10.760" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I mean, it would be cool""" start="00:20:12.720" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""if we had a scheme GUI library""" start="00:20:14.400" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that painted to a canvas,""" start="00:20:16.880" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""maybe for a Wayland implementation or something.""" start="00:20:18.600" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""But I don't know. It's not a concern for me, performance.""" start="00:20:21.640" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Okay, there are a few more questions. I do want to mention""" start="00:20:29.080" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that the stream has cut away at this point,""" start="00:20:32.080" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but we're still recording live.""" start="00:20:33.840" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""All of this will be put up on the website""" start="00:20:36.280" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and so on like that.""" start="00:20:38.800" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So, I appreciate all the enthusiastic questions""" start="00:20:40.400" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and you're kind of tanking through them all.""" start="00:20:44.200" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Me too. I love how many questions I'm getting.""" start="00:20:47.800" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""This is very encouraging""" start="00:20:52.800" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and it really makes me want to keep on working on it.""" start="00:20:54.040" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So it's great.""" start="00:20:56.000" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I'm so glad to hear that because that's exactly the message""" start="00:20:56.880" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I think you should be receiving.""" start="00:21:00.200" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""This is a fantastic project. Thank you so much.""" start="00:21:01.440" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I'll just say so myself. If the project is successful,""" start="00:21:04.160" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""are you worried about a possible split in the community""" start="00:21:08.440" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""between Schemacs and GNU Emacs?""" start="00:21:11.480" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Oh, I have thought about that.""" start="00:21:15.600" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And I really don't know what's going to happen.""" start="00:21:18.960" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""There seems to be already a huge demand""" start="00:21:24.040" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""for a scheme-based, a modern scheme-based editor.""" start="00:21:26.240" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""You know, the Edwin scheme for MIT scheme""" start="00:21:30.440" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""hasn't been touched since like 1987 or something,""" start="00:21:33.400" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""maybe 1993 or, but anyway.""" start="00:21:37.280" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""There seems to be huge demand.""" start="00:21:41.440" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And so I guess a lot of people""" start="00:21:43.160" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""who are currently using GNU Emacs""" start="00:21:45.120" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""will probably just switch over""" start="00:21:47.680" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""because they've been wanting""" start="00:21:49.080" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""something like this for a very long time.""" start="00:21:50.480" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And then, I mean, is that going to cause fragmentation?""" start="00:21:53.160" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Is it really a big deal, though?""" start="00:21:56.560" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I mean, it's all GPL-licensed code.""" start="00:21:58.680" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I mean, I think a rising tide raises all the ships at the same time.""" start="00:22:02.480" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So, yeah, also, the last thing I want to say about that""" start="00:22:08.760" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""is I would like to contribute some of what I do in Schemacs""" start="00:22:13.280" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""back into GNU Emacs, if I can. So, for example, I'm going""" start="00:22:19.000" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""to be working on like a canvas library""" start="00:22:24.400" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""where you can have interactive canvases""" start="00:22:25.960" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and you know you can actually like draw pictures""" start="00:22:27.880" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and put things with the mouse and drag things around.""" start="00:22:30.880" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And I was thinking you know""" start="00:22:33.560" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""if if I can figure out how that works""" start="00:22:36.080" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""maybe I can write something like that for Emacs""" start="00:22:37.668" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""or GNU Emacs using the Cairo library, you know,""" start="00:22:41.918" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""SVG rendering library that they have.""" start="00:22:47.760" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So, you know, if I have time,""" start="00:22:49.320" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I would like to continue contributing to GNU Emacs as well.""" start="00:22:51.320" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I'm sorry, what was the name of the library you mentioned?""" start="00:22:55.800" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Oh, Cairo, like Cairo.""" start="00:22:57.840" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Oh, Cairo, yeah. Absolutely. I spelled that poorly.""" start="00:23:01.040" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""The dream of never needing to change to the web browser.""" start="00:23:07.600" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Would schemacs bring us closer to that? I hope so.""" start="00:23:12.520" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""That's also a dream of mine.""" start="00:23:18.377" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""The part of the reason why I wanted to work, you know,""" start="00:23:21.710" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""make sure I had a really good workable GUI framework""" start="00:23:26.480" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""is so that I could, you know,""" start="00:23:31.000" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""we could write apps like, you know,""" start="00:23:32.627" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""they have a mastodon client written in Emacs Lisp.""" start="00:23:34.880" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that would be so nice to have this, you know,""" start="00:23:38.760" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""a really nice Mastodon client""" start="00:23:42.200" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that was right inside of, you know, our scheme environment""" start="00:23:43.440" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""where we were doing our text editing and other stuff.""" start="00:23:47.480" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I've always wanted something like that,""" start="00:23:50.040" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""or it would be cool to have""" start="00:23:52.080" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""just a slightly nicer GUI for Magit.""" start="00:23:53.800" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So, yeah, I mean, like, yeah, being able to avoid the web entirely""" start="00:23:56.320" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and just be able to like, you know, do social networking""" start="00:24:04.200" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and do your GitHub stuff,""" start="00:24:08.200" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""everything from within Emacs or Schemacs in this case,""" start="00:24:11.440" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that's a dream of mine as well.""" start="00:24:14.760" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And so I hope that that's where we end up in a couple of years.""" start="00:24:16.920" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""The sooner the better. Anything, just double checking.""" start="00:24:20.080" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Anything specific other than minimalism""" start="00:24:30.000" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that made you choose Scheme over Commonwealth?""" start="00:24:33.320" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Oh, yeah, it's kind of a philosophical question.""" start="00:24:35.800" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So a couple of things. First of all, it was a conversation""" start="00:24:40.200" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I had with William Byrd,""" start="00:24:45.560" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and he's a guy who makes the Mini Conran framework for Scheme.""" start="00:24:47.400" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""It was his PhD thesis.""" start="00:24:50.520" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""He worked with, I'm sorry, I just can't remember his name.""" start="00:24:52.880" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""He worked at the University of Indiana.""" start="00:24:57.120" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Another famous Scheme or Lisp person was there.""" start="00:24:59.680" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Friedman, Dan Friedman was his advisor.""" start="00:25:03.840" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Yeah, big name in Lisp.""" start="00:25:06.280" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Anyway, so I was talking with William Byrd,""" start="00:25:09.160" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and I'm a huge Haskell fan,""" start="00:25:12.840" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and he told me why he didn't like Haskell at all,""" start="00:25:14.640" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and kind of convinced me to try Scheme out.""" start="00:25:16.920" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And what I really like about Scheme is,""" start="00:25:19.640" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""yeah, like you said, the minimalism,""" start="00:25:22.760" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but it's more that it is very close""" start="00:25:25.400" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""to the mathematical framework of lambda calculus.""" start="00:25:29.840" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Haskell is probably the most pure""" start="00:25:34.880" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""lambda calculus that I've ever used,""" start="00:25:38.520" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but Scheme is like the simply typed lambda calculus,""" start="00:25:39.920" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and That just appeals to me.""" start="00:25:45.520" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I think, you know, if you have this tiny, tiny core language""" start="00:25:47.800" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""from which all of the computing can be defined,""" start="00:25:50.840" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I think it's kind of a shame""" start="00:25:55.600" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that so far we just haven't explored that space yet.""" start="00:25:57.120" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I mean, there's compared to JavaScript or Python,""" start="00:26:00.080" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""there's very little scheme code out there""" start="00:26:03.640" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and it could be doing so much. And I would just like to try""" start="00:26:05.880" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and expand the scheme ecosystem""" start="00:26:08.240" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and see just what this tiny little language can do.""" start="00:26:10.160" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And I think we haven't even seen""" start="00:26:13.000" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""a fraction of what it can do.""" start="00:26:14.480" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""That's why I've chosen scheme.""" start="00:26:16.840" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Divya, I see you've got a bunch more comments.""" start="00:26:22.400" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I think we're just about close to our time here,""" start="00:26:24.720" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but if you wanted to jump back in,""" start="00:26:26.680" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I'm sorry, I had to cut you off a little before.""" start="00:26:28.280" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""No, it's fine. No, it's fine.""" start="00:26:30.520" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I think I agree with most of what he said.""" start="00:26:33.960" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So, yeah, thank you so much.""" start="00:26:36.600" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Um, closing thoughts, Ramin.""" start="00:26:40.680" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Yeah, I guess everybody, please, if you're interested,""" start="00:26:45.160" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""keep watching my Mastodon and keep watching my Codeberg.""" start="00:26:51.640" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I'm going to try and squash this bug as quickly as I can.""" start="00:26:56.720" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I hope early next year,""" start="00:27:01.560" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""hopefully not much later than February,""" start="00:27:03.280" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I'll actually be able to start taking in contributions""" start="00:27:07.520" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""for some of the Emacs Lisp built-ins in the code base.""" start="00:27:12.040" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So, please keep watching. The pace of my development""" start="00:27:16.720" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""has increased pretty rapidly recently,""" start="00:27:21.960" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and I think we're pretty close""" start="00:27:24.280" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""to getting something that we can all use together.""" start="00:27:25.840" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Thank you once again for your amazing talk,""" start="00:27:29.120" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""for your exceptional work,""" start="00:27:31.720" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and for jumping in, doing the live Q&A,""" start="00:27:34.040" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""rolling with us here as we have yet another""" start="00:27:36.600" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""We'll See How It Goes conference.""" start="00:27:40.040" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""It's been just amazing so far,""" start="00:27:42.080" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and this talk is no small part of that. Thank you.""" start="00:27:44.280" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Oh, thank you so much. Yeah. OK, cool.""" start="00:27:46.840" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And thanks for all the questions, everyone.""" start="00:27:50.280" video="qanda-schemacs" id="subtitle"]]