Q&A transcript (unedited)

[[!template text="""So let's, I'm just going to answer""" start="00:00:00.000" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""the questions as I see them on the pad.""" start="00:00:01.760" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So yeah, this first question is really good.""" start="00:00:04.400" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And I think it's actually this great thing""" start="00:00:07.080" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that I did not mention is that like,""" start="00:00:09.920" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""if you have unsaved buffers,""" start="00:00:12.720" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""which is, you know, when you're actually doing editing,""" start="00:00:14.120" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""most buffers are unsaved.""" start="00:00:17.680" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""really you need something tightly integrated with Emacs""" start="00:00:22.000" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""to deal with that.""" start="00:00:25.960" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So things like, you know,""" start="00:00:27.480" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I demonstrated Copilot,""" start="00:00:29.040" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I demonstrated Gptel,""" start="00:00:30.240" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""things like those things, things like Ellama,""" start="00:00:32.520" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""these things will all work with unsaved buffers""" start="00:00:35.440" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""because they work via, you know, the input is the buffer.""" start="00:00:38.720" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""as opposed to a file.""" start="00:00:43.960" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Things like Claude Code, Gemini Code, et cetera,""" start="00:00:45.200" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""those are working with files.""" start="00:00:48.520" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""They have no idea what is going on with your buffers.""" start="00:00:49.520" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And it could be that you can solve this problem""" start="00:00:51.640" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""by using this thing called MCP,""" start="00:00:55.120" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""which kind of gives the coding agent""" start="00:00:56.800" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""a way to see anything in particular.""" start="00:01:02.840" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""In this case, it would be Emacs""" start="00:01:05.120" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and the state of your buffers.""" start="00:01:06.800" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""But I think that's not a particularly great solution""" start="00:01:07.800" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""if that's how you want to work.""" start="00:01:11.320" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""But I think that's kind of like""" start="00:01:13.840" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""if you're in the Claude Code""" start="00:01:15.720" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that kind of world where you know things are happening,""" start="00:01:17.360" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""basically through a terminal.""" start="00:01:19.760" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""It's okay, like you typically""" start="00:01:24.680" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""would not be doing a mix of things.""" start="00:01:26.400" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""You would just be doing things either""" start="00:01:28.640" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""in one place or the other place.""" start="00:01:30.120" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""You know, it could be that you switch off""" start="00:01:32.400" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""from one place to another,""" start="00:01:33.600" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but you wouldn't be doing both at the same time.""" start="00:01:34.360" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And it's kind of a, you tend to just fall into one,""" start="00:01:36.400" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""you know,""" start="00:01:40.280" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""editing outside the editor or editing inside the editor.""" start="00:01:41.680" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And I find myself switching between the two""" start="00:01:44.760" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""when I use those kinds of tools.""" start="00:01:47.040" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So David, let me interrupt you for just one moment.""" start="00:01:48.960" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I want to just take care to read out""" start="00:01:51.440" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""the question that we're answering.""" start="00:01:53.520" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""The question was, my biggest question with AI code editors""" start="00:01:55.080" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""trying to integrate with Emacs is,""" start="00:01:59.000" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""are the AI code editors able to read unsaved buffers""" start="00:02:01.000" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and not just saved files?""" start="00:02:04.600" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Sorry. Yes. Yeah. Thank you for reminding me to.""" start="00:02:06.320" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I will read the questions from now on.""" start="00:02:11.720" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""But yes, that's what I think about.""" start="00:02:13.520" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that interesting questions about unsaved buffers.""" start="00:02:16.600" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""The next question is,""" start="00:02:20.320" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I don't agree with the comment you made""" start="00:02:22.240" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""about VS code usage dying out""" start="00:02:23.800" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""because I see companies and products""" start="00:02:25.200" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""pushing for tightly integrated agent""" start="00:02:26.720" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and products like Windsurf.""" start="00:02:28.880" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So thoughts on that?""" start="00:02:31.320" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Yeah, I mean, it's really hard""" start="00:02:33.240" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""to be certain of anything,""" start="00:02:35.880" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""like things are changing very fast""" start="00:02:37.000" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and it's very hard to predict the future.""" start="00:02:38.440" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""But the trend I see is that um,""" start="00:02:40.640" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""the sort of outside editing experience""" start="00:02:47.840" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""where you just kind of instruct a model,""" start="00:02:50.920" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""what to do is getting better.""" start="00:02:53.520" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And as long as that keeps getting better,""" start="00:02:56.760" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I think that's going to lessen the demand""" start="00:02:58.680" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""for these tightly integrated editing experiences.""" start="00:03:00.840" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So it could be that, um, a lot of people,""" start="00:03:04.880" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""especially in, you know, corporate environments""" start="00:03:10.840" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""just start using,""" start="00:03:12.840" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""they're going to use whatever is""" start="00:03:14.280" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""going to make the most productive.""" start="00:03:15.600" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And I think right now, it's not clear that that will be,""" start="00:03:17.960" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""you know, the very agent-based, you know,""" start="00:03:22.400" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""command line-centric way of doing things.""" start="00:03:25.080" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""But it certainly, the trend is, if that continues,""" start="00:03:27.360" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I think it probably will be like that.""" start="00:03:31.240" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So I think we'll have to see.""" start="00:03:33.320" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I don't think your opinion is unreasonable.""" start="00:03:35.480" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I guess I'm kind of cautiously saying""" start="00:03:37.680" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I think it's gonna be the opposite, but I guess we'll see.""" start="00:03:40.320" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Like, let's reconvene in a year and see what happens.""" start="00:03:43.200" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Uh, the 3rd question answer,""" start="00:03:47.760" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""do you have any thoughts about the environmental costs""" start="00:03:49.160" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""of using either the training""" start="00:03:55.320" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""of the models are we can download or use locally""" start="00:03:57.080" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""or the larger commercial models used from the cloud.""" start="00:03:59.800" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Um, I think. The, you know, I'm on social media,""" start="00:04:02.360" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""probably a little bit more than I should be.""" start="00:04:09.840" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And I do see a lot of discussion there""" start="00:04:13.040" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and a lot of concern about the environmental costs of using LLMs.""" start="00:04:15.720" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I've looked into this as I'm also concerned""" start="00:04:18.640" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""about keeping my environmental footprint personally down.""" start="00:04:22.800" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And I do this in many ways,""" start="00:04:27.200" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but I certainly don't want to kind of like blow that all the water""" start="00:04:29.200" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""because I'm using LLMs so much.""" start="00:04:31.320" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I think that the concerns are mostly overblown.""" start="00:04:35.040" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""There's a concern that, well, it uses a lot of energy.""" start="00:04:38.360" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""In aggregate, the total amount of energy""" start="00:04:41.840" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""used by the data centers in the US is a few percent.""" start="00:04:46.600" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And this is a fraction. I think this is like LM's account""" start="00:04:50.560" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""for something like 20% now""" start="00:04:53.840" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""of all data center usage, which is a lot.""" start="00:04:56.720" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""But Those data centers are doing lots of things.""" start="00:05:02.480" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""They all need to be water cooled.""" start="00:05:03.960" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Um, if you like per LLM prompt,""" start="00:05:05.240" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""the costs are relatively small""" start="00:05:08.680" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and by relatively small, I mean,""" start="00:05:11.400" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""you know, people have said online,""" start="00:05:13.240" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""well, it's like a few bottles of water per prompt.""" start="00:05:15.000" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""That, that is not true. It is much, much less than that.""" start="00:05:17.880" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""It's a fraction of that.""" start="00:05:20.120" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So, uh, I don't think the answer is nothing,""" start="00:05:21.360" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but I would say it's, I would say you probably,""" start="00:05:25.120" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""if you want the most bang for your environmental buck,""" start="00:05:28.760" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""probably the best thing for you to do""" start="00:05:30.800" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""is take less flights and things like that.""" start="00:05:32.880" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Like, yes, you can cut down on this,""" start="00:05:35.800" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but I think it's pretty marginal at the moment.""" start="00:05:37.320" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""We do probably need to think about the total costs""" start="00:05:40.560" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""like of humanity using all of this.""" start="00:05:43.080" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Like a lot of stuff you'll see""" start="00:05:44.600" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""corporations are using a lot of these things.""" start="00:05:46.520" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And so like, just like if you look""" start="00:05:48.760" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""at water usage or energy uses in total,""" start="00:05:52.080" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""it's like really corporations that are using this.""" start="00:05:54.360" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So there might, there's a lot of leverage there""" start="00:05:56.640" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""to make things more efficient as opposed to personal use.""" start="00:05:58.520" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So I think it's wise to be cautious,""" start="00:06:01.400" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but I think it's okay, I think, at least for personal use.""" start="00:06:06.120" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""The next question is another,""" start="00:06:09.080" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""yeah, this is also disagreeing with me about VS Code,""" start="00:06:13.160" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but it says, I must say I liked your conclusion,""" start="00:06:20.960" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but I differ insofar as you said that VS Code differs from Emacs""" start="00:06:23.840" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""because the former is not as easy to adapt as the latter.""" start="00:06:26.720" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""But why should Microsoft not adapt VS Code""" start="00:06:30.480" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""as we adapt Emacs for the new era of coding?""" start="00:06:33.560" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And why would VS Code be harder hit?""" start="00:06:35.760" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Could you please elaborate on this point? Yeah, thanks.""" start="00:06:38.160" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""This is a good question.""" start="00:06:43.600" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I think maybe I wasn't as sharp on my point as I could be.""" start="00:06:46.280" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Because I think the core""" start="00:06:50.400" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""of what I'm saying is like, there is a going to be a trend.""" start="00:06:51.240" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I believe there will be a trend away from editing.""" start="00:06:56.480" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And if we are going to be editing less,""" start="00:06:58.680" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I think VS Code, like people will be in editors less.""" start="00:07:01.040" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And that means people will be in VS Code less,""" start="00:07:04.560" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""people will probably be in Emacs less.""" start="00:07:06.920" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And yes, I think you can, VS Code""" start="00:07:09.760" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""is to some degree extensible.""" start="00:07:13.720" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but I think there's less of a community, or that is,""" start="00:07:15.400" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I think the people using Emacs""" start="00:07:21.560" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""have used Emacs for a long time.""" start="00:07:23.400" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""They're going to continue to use Emacs.""" start="00:07:25.320" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I speak for myself, but I know""" start="00:07:27.120" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""a lot of people here are kind of like this,""" start="00:07:28.280" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and they're going to just, like,""" start="00:07:30.120" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""we have a lot of momentum to keep doing things in Emacs,""" start="00:07:33.280" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and especially because we have a lot of things""" start="00:07:37.760" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that we already do in Emacs.""" start="00:07:41.080" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""We do to-do lists and, you know, with org mode""" start="00:07:42.800" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and some people read email""" start="00:07:45.080" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and some people are using""" start="00:07:47.480" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""shells in Emacs and all these things,""" start="00:07:49.040" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I think will make Emacs""" start="00:07:50.960" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""kind of a better environment""" start="00:07:53.960" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""if you want to do various editing like things in Emacs.""" start="00:07:55.560" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""In, you know, in an editing environment,""" start="00:07:59.600" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""because I think just emails can edit""" start="00:08:05.360" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""more types of things I think will naturally""" start="00:08:07.120" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""be a bit more useful than VS code,""" start="00:08:09.240" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""which people are really just using to edit code""" start="00:08:10.960" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and if people find it less useful to edit code.""" start="00:08:14.080" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I think it's VS code will be harder hit than emails""" start="00:08:16.800" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""because that's its whole like that's in the name""" start="00:08:20.920" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""like the whole reason for it""" start="00:08:24.240" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""to be doing things as to edit code.""" start="00:08:25.560" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So I think that it's it's vulnerable""" start="00:08:27.360" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""in a way that Emacs isn't""" start="00:08:30.840" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""just because emacs is so very...""" start="00:08:31.960" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""you know, it's, it could do so many things""" start="00:08:34.520" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and and people use it for so many different kinds of things""" start="00:08:40.120" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that it's I think it's going to be""" start="00:08:42.720" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""a little bit more resilient.""" start="00:08:46.080" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""But as I said with the present.""" start="00:08:47.000" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""For those of us that are using Emacs,""" start="00:08:48.880" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""it's everywhere for us.""" start="00:08:52.640" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Not necessarily everyone is an I live in Emacs person,""" start="00:08:55.160" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but whatever you're using Emacs for,""" start="00:08:58.360" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""it is the thing you reach for to do that thing.""" start="00:09:00.280" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Is that touching on the point?""" start="00:09:03.000" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Yeah, that's a great way to say it.""" start="00:09:06.640" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Thank you. Thank you, Colin. Yeah.""" start="00:09:09.080" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Thank you. Thank you for that question.""" start="00:09:12.440" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Do you think we're falling behind in productivity as Emacs users""" start="00:09:14.040" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""compared to all these VS code forks""" start="00:09:18.760" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that have a thousand button and text boxes everywhere,""" start="00:09:19.960" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""which are basically much richer UIs,""" start="00:09:21.800" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""which are basically web pages?""" start="00:09:24.320" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I do think Emacs is falling behind in some ways.""" start="00:09:25.720" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I mean, it's definitely showing its age a little bit,""" start="00:09:28.800" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""especially you mentioned richer UIs""" start="00:09:32.520" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that are basically web pages.""" start="00:09:35.080" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I mean, this I think is one of the big problems Emacs has""" start="00:09:36.520" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""is that it uses a very, you know, a much more ancient way""" start="00:09:41.160" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""of kind of doing UIs that is not particularly flexible""" start="00:09:46.480" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and not particularly comfortable for any modern UI coder.""" start="00:09:49.800" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And I think if you look at the Emacs stuff out there,""" start="00:09:55.960" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""like, yes, you can do a few things with UIs.""" start="00:09:58.640" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""You can have some amount of UI richness,""" start="00:10:01.960" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but it's pretty limited.""" start="00:10:04.760" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And I kind of, if there's one thing""" start="00:10:06.280" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I could wish for in Emacs,""" start="00:10:07.840" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""it's sort of like, I kind of wish Emacs could be on a,""" start="00:10:09.080" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""could be built on top of basically like Atom or something like that,""" start="00:10:12.520" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""where it's like a web framework""" start="00:10:18.200" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that allows us to write actual rich pages,""" start="00:10:20.400" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""rich UIs in a modern style using things like CSS""" start="00:10:24.640" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""instead of the kinds of things Emacs lets you do.""" start="00:10:29.640" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""But that said, that is an advantage""" start="00:10:33.600" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""of VS Code and other editors like that.""" start="00:10:37.200" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I think that Emacs does a good job""" start="00:10:38.960" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""of eventually catching up""" start="00:10:45.080" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""to all sorts of things people are doing in other editors.""" start="00:10:46.720" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""It's often that other editors get there first,""" start="00:10:49.760" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but there's a lot of momentum""" start="00:10:52.600" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""to kind of keep Emacs fresh, keep it modern.""" start="00:10:55.480" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And it's pretty easy to- I love that.""" start="00:10:57.840" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I forgot about the lag. We do have a little bit of lag,""" start="00:11:00.120" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but I just, I find that very captivating.""" start="00:11:05.680" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""We have with technologies""" start="00:11:08.000" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""like Apache Cassandra in the database world,""" start="00:11:10.360" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""we have this idea of eventual concurrency.""" start="00:11:12.400" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And you make me think with Emacs,""" start="00:11:14.880" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""we have this idea of eventual feature parity, right?""" start="00:11:17.560" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""If a feature stays desirable long enough,""" start="00:11:21.280" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Emacs will eventually grow it.""" start="00:11:23.920" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I think that's a very contagious idea. Yeah, yeah, thanks.""" start="00:11:25.880" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I hope that idea makes sense. And I hope it's correct,""" start="00:11:32.160" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""because I think that I do want Emacs to continue to succeed.""" start="00:11:35.840" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And I personally, using Emacs,""" start="00:11:39.920" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""do not feel myself falling behind in productivity.""" start="00:11:43.440" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""That said, there's a lot of ways that Emacs can improve""" start="00:11:46.480" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and should improve on this front.""" start="00:11:51.760" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And a lot of these ways are pretty fundamental.""" start="00:11:53.520" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So I kind of hope people pay a lot of attention""" start="00:11:56.600" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""to some of these more fundamental lower-level Emacs things""" start="00:11:59.720" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that really allows the packages""" start="00:12:02.440" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""to do more richer and better things.""" start="00:12:04.880" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Sorry, you have a ton of questions.""" start="00:12:07.600" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I shouldn't be doing so much active listening.""" start="00:12:10.360" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""No, no, I appreciate your input.""" start="00:12:12.280" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""OK, next is I've been using Claude Code extensively.""" start="00:12:17.480" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I recently switched to Agent Shell with Claude Code.""" start="00:12:23.080" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Have you tried it? And what are your thoughts?""" start="00:12:25.520" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I actually have tried Agent Shell.""" start="00:12:28.040" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And currently, I recorded this video like three months ago.""" start="00:12:30.280" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So Agent Shell did not exist then.""" start="00:12:34.720" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""If Agent Shell did exist,""" start="00:12:38.120" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I probably would have demoed it as well.""" start="00:12:39.720" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Agent Hell is great in the sense of it's""" start="00:12:41.240" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""It does use comment, which is the way that I think all Emacs users""" start="00:12:45.360" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""would prefer to interact with something like Claude Code,""" start="00:12:53.720" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""or any of those types of tools, which is like, I don't.""" start="00:12:57.040" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Um, the other,""" start="00:13:00.200" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but it's a trade-off it uses like on the back""" start="00:13:02.720" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and it's, it has a common buffer.""" start="00:13:05.160" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And then on the back end, it's using a protocol""" start="00:13:06.960" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""to talk to agent, uh, to Claude Code and other things.""" start="00:13:08.760" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""The problem is this has a lot of problems.""" start="00:13:11.760" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""For example, like you don't have""" start="00:13:15.400" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""completion of slash commands.""" start="00:13:16.800" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""You don't have, um, if you ask to see the, in Claude Code,""" start="00:13:18.320" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""you can get a visual representation of. the context window.""" start="00:13:22.120" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""But you can't do this. I mean, last time I tried,""" start="00:13:24.320" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I couldn't do this in agent shell.""" start="00:13:30.240" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""It's progressing rapidly.""" start="00:13:31.720" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""But it's not as rich in functionality""" start="00:13:33.400" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""as using quad code directly.""" start="00:13:37.480" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""On the other hand, because it's letting Emacs be Emacs""" start="00:13:40.120" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and using comment, it's a much better experience""" start="00:13:44.840" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""to actually give instructions.""" start="00:13:49.240" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I think the maximum power, though, is, to me,""" start="00:13:50.920" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""the best way is still like, you know,""" start="00:13:56.520" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""do your editing in org mode,""" start="00:13:58.480" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and then just tell, you could have,""" start="00:13:59.400" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""you know, the richer experience of using""" start="00:14:02.360" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""of using Claude Code in, in it's more like shell like form""" start="00:14:06.960" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""where everything is, it's much, you know,""" start="00:14:13.640" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""designed to be used in the terminal,""" start="00:14:15.560" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but you don't have to type in that much""" start="00:14:17.080" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""because you're really doing your typing""" start="00:14:18.760" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""in order to me, I think there's""" start="00:14:20.040" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""kind of the sweet spot that I like.""" start="00:14:21.440" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Um, but HHL is a great step forward""" start="00:14:23.520" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and I think it's, uh, it's quite good to use.""" start="00:14:26.640" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And I, I personally use it a lot.""" start="00:14:29.880" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Um, OK, so in terms of, next question,""" start="00:14:32.120" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""in terms of agent selection,""" start="00:14:40.480" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""what has been your experience with different agents?""" start="00:14:41.840" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And have you had any success with hosting your own models""" start="00:14:44.640" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and using open weights?""" start="00:14:48.080" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I think there's, you know, many people""" start="00:14:49.440" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""have many different opinions on this.""" start="00:14:54.160" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I think Claude Code is, most people I know""" start="00:14:56.520" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""would say Claude Code is probably,""" start="00:15:00.840" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""sorry, Cloud is probably the best for coding right now.""" start="00:15:03.480" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Gemini can be very hit and miss even with 3.0,""" start="00:15:07.480" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but Claude is quite good.""" start="00:15:09.920" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""4.5 Opus is actually relatively cheap""" start="00:15:12.520" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""compared to the previous version of 4.1 Opus.""" start="00:15:16.120" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""There's other models out there,""" start="00:15:21.120" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but I think most people just stick with Claude""" start="00:15:24.240" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""because it's very reliable, it's very good,""" start="00:15:29.160" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and nothing is obviously better than that.""" start="00:15:34.000" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And as far as DeepSeek is pretty good as well,""" start="00:15:36.480" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and then much cheaper.""" start="00:15:41.040" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I've had some good luck using that locally,""" start="00:15:42.080" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but actually the problem is for my day-to-day machine,""" start="00:15:46.840" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""like my personal machine,""" start="00:15:50.160" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""it's not powerful enough to run anything locally.""" start="00:15:53.080" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And my work machine, it is powerful enough,""" start="00:15:55.680" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but I can spend my company's money at will""" start="00:15:58.480" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""on more powerful models.""" start="00:16:02.080" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So there's really not a lot of incentive""" start="00:16:03.760" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""for me to run locally.""" start="00:16:05.520" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I think, as far as I know, I haven't heard""" start="00:16:06.440" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""of local models being incredible,""" start="00:16:12.200" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but I think you can get reasonable quality with them.""" start="00:16:14.360" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""That is, especially if you're doing""" start="00:16:16.880" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""relatively simple things,""" start="00:16:19.160" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I think it's pretty reasonable to be using those.""" start="00:16:20.280" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Also, they tend to be slower""" start="00:16:25.680" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""than the models that are elsewhere""" start="00:16:29.960" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""just because they just have more horsepower,""" start="00:16:33.280" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""they can churn through those tokens a little quicker.""" start="00:16:36.320" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So, I'll just break in here to say,""" start="00:16:38.680" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""we've got about 7 minutes left""" start="00:16:44.720" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""before we're cutting over this great discussion so far.""" start="00:16:46.240" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I'm very happy to keep going.""" start="00:16:49.240" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""There's no time limit, but at a certain point,""" start="00:16:50.840" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I may have to leave""" start="00:16:55.400" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""to jump in and prep with the next speaker,""" start="00:16:56.480" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but you'll be able to keep going""" start="00:16:58.680" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""as long as you have the steam for it.""" start="00:17:00.360" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Yeah, I think we have 3 questions. Yeah, thanks.""" start="00:17:02.600" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I think we have 3 questions.""" start="00:17:06.160" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Let's see if we can get through them""" start="00:17:08.240" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""all in that time period. OK, this one is interesting talk.""" start="00:17:09.720" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I'll start by asking it for everything, but is it editing?""" start="00:17:17.360" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I think there's more of a comment than a question.""" start="00:17:20.440" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So yes, let us all ask, but is it editing?""" start="00:17:23.240" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""All right. I can move on to the comment area.""" start="00:17:29.720" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I'm reading angst in your thinking about AI editing.""" start="00:17:33.440" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I think that's true.""" start="00:17:40.320" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""It says, and the question continues with,""" start="00:17:41.840" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""what are you excited about?""" start="00:17:44.120" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Wow, that's an interesting question.""" start="00:17:45.160" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I mean, I think there are possibilities.""" start="00:17:48.720" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Like, yes, people are going in sort of a relatively obvious direction""" start="00:17:53.800" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""with LLMs right now.""" start="00:17:58.720" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And I think there's lots of opportunities,""" start="00:18:01.440" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""clever opportunities to do things""" start="00:18:04.600" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""we couldn't have thought of Things that are useful,""" start="00:18:07.840" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but in ways that are not super obvious to us,""" start="00:18:11.080" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and I think I'm still excited""" start="00:18:14.920" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""about the possibilities of using them in ways that are super helpful""" start="00:18:18.520" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and different than. normal. I'll give you an example.""" start="00:18:23.840" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""This is something that I intend to, I think,""" start="00:18:29.320" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""post on Reddit in a few days,""" start="00:18:33.200" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but I have a extension to eshell""" start="00:18:36.480" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""where you can prefix a command with at,""" start="00:18:39.400" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and then just tell it what you want to do,""" start="00:18:43.440" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and it will substitute the command""" start="00:18:45.200" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that you are thinking of. Because often, I do not remember.""" start="00:18:46.920" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I never remember, like, how do you find a file in a directory tree,""" start="00:18:51.920" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""you know, recursing? Who can remember how to do that?""" start="00:18:56.920" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""It's like a find, and there's like a dash print there somewhere.""" start="00:19:00.160" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Yes. There are some smart people who remember this""" start="00:19:04.800" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but I am not one of them.""" start="00:19:10.160" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And so I think like something like this is like you just type out,""" start="00:19:11.200" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""find me this file, and it will substitute""" start="00:19:13.640" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""the correct command.""" start="00:19:17.280" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I think this is, there's a lot of little,""" start="00:19:18.880" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""little tweaks you could do like, you know, if you want the AI,""" start="00:19:21.000" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""it could be there for you. And it will help you.""" start="00:19:24.320" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And if you don't want it,""" start="00:19:26.680" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""it's not going to get in your way.""" start="00:19:27.560" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And I think this is where eMath can really shine.""" start="00:19:28.920" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""It can really take advantage of LLMs,""" start="00:19:30.640" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but still remain true to its kind of editing experience,""" start="00:19:33.080" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""because it's not forcing you to use LLMs all the time.""" start="00:19:35.800" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So thank you for that great question.""" start="00:19:39.320" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And then the final question. Yep.""" start="00:19:43.920" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""This final question is, why does it matter to have a richer UI?""" start="00:19:47.920" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""All this left is basically running and getting the results.""" start="00:19:50.840" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I think maybe this is a response to me complaining""" start="00:19:53.440" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""about Emacs not having a richer UI before,""" start="00:19:56.120" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but I think it does matter a lot for all sorts of things.""" start="00:19:58.480" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""It's hard to kind of explain succinctly""" start="00:20:03.160" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""because I'm talking about UI""" start="00:20:07.160" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and I'd have to show you things.""" start="00:20:08.520" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""But it should be just something like oh I have an error""" start="00:20:09.760" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and I'm using flymake and I'm,""" start="00:20:14.600" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I'm using the you know I have options""" start="00:20:15.800" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""where it'll show me the error in line""" start="00:20:17.760" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""by like underlining things and having a little message,""" start="00:20:19.840" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but like, you know what that message""" start="00:20:22.640" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""doesn't appear quite right, a lot of the times,""" start="00:20:24.080" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""or here's another one like. I program in Python a lot.""" start="00:20:26.400" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And Python, it's super hard to program in""" start="00:20:30.160" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""unless you have these little vertical lines""" start="00:20:33.480" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that shows you what the indents are. At least I find it.""" start="00:20:35.280" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""There are two packages that do that.""" start="00:20:37.600" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""None of them do it particularly well,""" start="00:20:40.480" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""just because Emacs at its base""" start="00:20:43.040" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""does not allow you to do this.""" start="00:20:44.600" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And so you kind of have to hack it in.""" start="00:20:45.920" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And there's lots of ways to mess it up.""" start="00:20:47.760" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And when editing, you'll find yourself messing this thing up.""" start="00:20:49.480" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""regularly. So it doesn't look quite clean.""" start="00:20:52.800" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And like, there's little artifacts,""" start="00:20:57.160" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""or, you know, there's little ways that it,""" start="00:20:59.080" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""it kind of gets things wrong,""" start="00:21:01.040" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""or you can, you can get things wrong with it.""" start="00:21:02.360" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So I think that, like,""" start="00:21:06.280" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""there's a lot of issues with that sort of thing.""" start="00:21:10.040" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And, and also, like, you know,""" start="00:21:11.880" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""what if you want to do something like play a video inline,""" start="00:21:15.760" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""like, I don't know, you might should be able to do that,""" start="00:21:17.720" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""you might should be able to do anything.""" start="00:21:19.560" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""But right now it just can't and I think""" start="00:21:20.840" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""a lot of the reason as well""" start="00:21:23.800" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""we you know we wanted to be compatible""" start="00:21:25.000" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""with you know TRS 80 machines or something like that""" start="00:21:26.520" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and it's this is important this really is important,""" start="00:21:29.920" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but I hope there's some way""" start="00:21:33.160" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that we can kind of eventually figure out""" start="00:21:34.720" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""how to get the best of you know both compatibility and.""" start="00:21:36.080" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""more modern UIs. So, you know, we can have more modern UIs""" start="00:21:39.280" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""for people that have modern machines and other people""" start="00:21:44.880" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""either do without that functionality""" start="00:21:49.840" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""or sort of fall back to some reasonable default.""" start="00:21:51.960" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So we have about 30 seconds or a minute.""" start="00:21:54.320" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I know there's one more question.""" start="00:21:59.080" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I'd love for you to get to it.""" start="00:22:00.680" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I just want to make sure that""" start="00:22:01.560" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""while we're still live on stream,""" start="00:22:02.840" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""you get a chance to share""" start="00:22:04.240" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""any closing remarks you might have.""" start="00:22:05.520" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Thank you for that. Um, yes.""" start="00:22:06.800" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So first of all, I want to thank everyone involved for listening.""" start="00:22:10.880" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And I want to thank the core when I think thanks for moderating this.""" start="00:22:14.520" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And Sacha, thank you for putting that together.""" start="00:22:18.920" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And I know there's more people""" start="00:22:21.280" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that are working behind the scenes.""" start="00:22:21.920" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So thank you all for putting this together.""" start="00:22:23.320" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I'm so happy that we all are here. We care about Emacs.""" start="00:22:25.080" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""We're pushing Emacs forward.""" start="00:22:29.200" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""We are I think Emacs remains""" start="00:22:31.200" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""this really remarkable achievement.""" start="00:22:35.960" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Like it's amazing that it exists. It continues to exist.""" start="00:22:37.280" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""It hasn't got, it's hard.""" start="00:22:41.800" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""It's like, really, there's a lot of work to go into it.""" start="00:22:43.000" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So I think let's all just appreciate everyone who,""" start="00:22:45.160" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""who like contributes and makes all of this possible.""" start="00:22:47.560" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Cause it's, if you ever read""" start="00:22:50.680" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""the Emacs Develop mailing list,""" start="00:22:52.160" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""it's a lot of work, a lot of deep thinking,""" start="00:22:53.280" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""a lot of careful thinking.""" start="00:22:55.480" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And I think this is really important.""" start="00:22:56.680" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So thank you, especially to the maintainers of Emacs""" start="00:22:58.600" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and everyone who's contributing to the core experience,""" start="00:23:02.040" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""all the libraries, all the LLM stuff we mentioned before.""" start="00:23:04.200" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""You're all doing such a fantastic job.""" start="00:23:07.760" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""It's exciting to be here. Thank you for your talk, Andrew.""" start="00:23:09.840" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""It's been just fascinating.""" start="00:23:13.800" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""If you don't mind, I'd love to jump""" start="00:23:16.160" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""right over to the last question. OK, let's do that.""" start="00:23:19.760" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""It says, I have 45 plus years editing programming.""" start="00:23:23.880" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I'm not sure I can think about things""" start="00:23:27.600" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""without thinking of buffers, editors, et cetera.""" start="00:23:29.240" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Is this the handicap?""" start="00:23:31.040" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Should we have people with no experience""" start="00:23:31.960" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""with code learning to prompt?""" start="00:23:34.240" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Well, this is something I do have a strong opinion about.""" start="00:23:35.320" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I feel like I do not want to see people that have no experience""" start="00:23:38.800" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""with code learning to prompt. I think it's very limited""" start="00:23:42.160" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""what you could do right now with that.""" start="00:23:44.120" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Like you could do, if you could sort of one-shot it,""" start="00:23:46.040" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""that is like, I have something that's relatively easy,""" start="00:23:48.440" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And it could do it, and I'm going to tell it to do it,""" start="00:23:52.000" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and then I'm going to give feedback.""" start="00:23:54.880" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""OK, as long as this is for relatively short-lived things,""" start="00:23:56.040" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I think that works well. But for people who really care""" start="00:24:00.040" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""about the longevity of their code,""" start="00:24:02.600" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""really care about software engineering,""" start="00:24:04.280" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""which is software engineering is very different than just writing code.""" start="00:24:06.600" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Software engineering is about maintainability.""" start="00:24:09.880" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""Software engineering is making sure everything is scalable""" start="00:24:11.880" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and all sorts of things that it's unlikely,""" start="00:24:15.120" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""I think, that an LM is going to get right.""" start="00:24:19.600" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And I've seen a lot of bad cases""" start="00:24:21.760" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""where people who don't understand code""" start="00:24:25.280" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""are doing things and it's not working well""" start="00:24:27.200" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""because they don't understand""" start="00:24:31.160" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""some of the some of the complexities""" start="00:24:33.240" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""or some of the concerns that that you might have""" start="00:24:35.280" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""in maintaining a piece of code.""" start="00:24:36.960" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So I think those people who have lots of experience""" start="00:24:43.280" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""are the best people to use this.""" start="00:24:45.760" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And I think that's what we're seeing""" start="00:24:46.960" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""in the industry as well,""" start="00:24:48.120" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""where more senior people are doing quite well""" start="00:24:49.080" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""because they're able to use LLMs""" start="00:24:51.640" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""more effectively than junior people.""" start="00:24:54.600" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""That may all even out because LLMs get even better,""" start="00:24:56.560" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""but for now hasn't happened.""" start="00:25:01.000" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""So I think, you know, I also have a ton of experience,""" start="00:25:03.080" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""not 45 years, but a lot. And, and I think that it's those,""" start="00:25:06.320" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""those years of experience will only help you.""" start="00:25:13.080" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""And I think it's, it's, it's a great,""" start="00:25:14.840" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""it's great to kind of dip your toes in the water""" start="00:25:16.920" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]] [[!template text="""and see what you can do.""" start="00:25:19.640" video="qanda-llm" id="subtitle"]]