WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:04.599 Recording started. 00:00:04.600 --> 00:00:07.199 Great. All right, you are live in Common Lisp on dev. 00:00:07.200 --> 00:00:14.399 This is Corwin back and I've got screwlisp with me, 00:00:14.400 --> 00:00:18.759 the host of the Lispy Gopher... Climate, I like to say. 00:00:18.760 --> 00:00:20.319 It used to be show. 00:00:20.320 --> 00:00:24.679 The Lispy Gopher show or the Lispy Gopher Climate. 00:00:24.680 --> 00:00:31.119 Thank you so much for joining us. Minutes. 00:00:31.120 --> 00:00:33.639 Yeah, we're just, we've got already 00:00:33.640 --> 00:00:35.359 a whole pad full of questions 00:00:35.360 --> 00:00:38.039 and we have a unique opportunity if you, 00:00:38.040 --> 00:00:39.159 if you check out the etherpad, 00:00:39.160 --> 00:00:42.239 you'll see some instructions there to join on Lambda Moo, 00:00:42.240 --> 00:00:43.039 which screwless, 00:00:43.040 --> 00:00:46.319 but I'm hoping you will talk to us a little bit about that 00:00:46.320 --> 00:00:48.879 as well as your, your very cool project. 00:00:48.880 --> 00:00:52.839 Oh yeah, so I main on Lambda, as Corwin is saying. 00:00:52.840 --> 00:00:55.639 And Corwin was pretending not to know the name of the show, 00:00:55.640 --> 00:00:59.399 but he has in fact appeared on an episode of it 00:00:59.400 --> 00:01:00.879 in January this year, I think. 00:01:00.880 --> 00:01:04.919 So he was just pretending there. I'm screwless of this. 00:01:04.920 --> 00:01:06.919 What's happening? 00:01:06.920 --> 00:01:13.439 10 minutes or less before we started going live here, 00:01:13.440 --> 00:01:16.159 they were like, remember how you said you fixed that bug? 00:01:16.160 --> 00:01:21.479 And then I had to quickly recapitulate my whole talk. 00:01:21.480 --> 00:01:23.719 And I introduced some new bugs while that was happening. 00:01:23.720 --> 00:01:26.199 But let's go through some of these questions. 00:01:26.200 --> 00:01:29.479 We're all hanging out in LambdaMoo. 00:01:29.480 --> 00:01:37.639 So if you mx telnet over to lambda.moo.mud.org port 8888. 00:01:37.640 --> 00:01:40.279 This is where we're talking at the moment 00:01:40.280 --> 00:01:45.399 with people like Ed Swarthout, DM, and yduJ, 00:01:45.400 --> 00:01:47.559 who I gossiped about in the show, 00:01:47.560 --> 00:01:50.519 and Sasha, and people were there a little bit as well. 00:01:50.520 --> 00:01:53.359 I'm just going to read some of the questions 00:01:53.360 --> 00:01:59.759 that GGXX in Lambdomoo has been relaying to me there, 00:01:59.760 --> 00:02:08.239 though I hear that there are a whole bunch of them now. 00:02:08.240 --> 00:02:09.759 Someone asks on the Etherpad, 00:02:09.760 --> 00:02:13.199 what do you mean when I say the agent is running slowly? 00:02:13.200 --> 00:02:17.119 Yeah, so if you saw in the talk, 00:02:17.120 --> 00:02:19.639 I was having the agent only attempt 00:02:19.640 --> 00:02:21.959 to act every 20 seconds. 00:02:21.960 --> 00:02:25.399 This is what I mean by the agent is acting slowly. 00:02:25.400 --> 00:02:26.599 So this is quite different 00:02:26.600 --> 00:02:28.599 to what people might expect within AI 00:02:28.600 --> 00:02:30.679 if people are talking about like the graphics card ones 00:02:30.680 --> 00:02:33.599 where you're trying crunch as fast as you can 00:02:33.600 --> 00:02:36.399 for as few seconds as you can, and then you stop. 00:02:36.400 --> 00:02:39.399 In contrast, my agent is just trying to do 00:02:39.400 --> 00:02:42.279 a simple action every 20 seconds. 00:02:42.280 --> 00:02:45.119 But if you keep going continuously 00:02:45.120 --> 00:02:47.919 at a simple action every 20 seconds 00:02:47.920 --> 00:02:49.959 without sleeping for days, 00:02:49.960 --> 00:02:51.239 it still adds up to a lot. 00:02:51.240 --> 00:02:57.039 So that was the significance of it running slowly. 00:02:57.040 --> 00:03:00.639 What else are people saying? TGXX to screwtape. 00:03:00.640 --> 00:03:02.519 Someone asked on the Etherpad, 00:03:02.520 --> 00:03:04.759 do you think that it would be too hard 00:03:04.760 --> 00:03:06.439 to add a second way 00:03:06.440 --> 00:03:09.959 to send commands from Common Lisps to Emacs? 00:03:09.960 --> 00:03:12.919 No, I put three of them together 00:03:12.920 --> 00:03:14.559 and I didn't talk about it 00:03:14.560 --> 00:03:17.239 because this is a kind of affected choice. 00:03:17.240 --> 00:03:20.039 Right now you're using Emacs client for that. 00:03:20.040 --> 00:03:22.039 That is the simplest way to implement. 00:03:22.040 --> 00:03:24.039 How about using the slime protocol? 00:03:24.040 --> 00:03:28.799 Elsewhere, I am just using the SLIME protocol. 00:03:28.800 --> 00:03:31.639 So, in everyone that's SLIME-connected. 00:03:31.640 --> 00:03:33.399 So, earlier on, you saw somebody 00:03:33.400 --> 00:03:35.399 running a SWANK server in Python. 00:03:35.400 --> 00:03:38.439 Normally, you run a SWANK server in Common Lisp. 00:03:38.440 --> 00:03:41.599 And a SWANK server is what Emacs SLIME, 00:03:41.600 --> 00:03:45.039 Superior Lisp Interaction Mode for Emacs, connects to. 00:03:45.040 --> 00:03:49.039 And then Swank comes with Swank Eval and Emacs. 00:03:49.040 --> 00:03:50.959 So after you've been slime connected, 00:03:50.960 --> 00:03:55.039 you can trivially send Emacs Lisp forms to Emacs 00:03:55.040 --> 00:03:57.319 using Swank Eval and Emacs. 00:03:57.320 --> 00:04:00.679 The reason that I chose to use 00:04:00.680 --> 00:04:05.199 Emacs server and Emacs client 00:04:05.200 --> 00:04:14.039 was that I was letting the Leonardo agent 00:04:14.040 --> 00:04:18.799 talk to Emacs using Swank, Eval, and Emacs. 00:04:18.800 --> 00:04:21.599 And I wanted my ECL image to be using 00:04:21.600 --> 00:04:23.119 a different notion of a server. 00:04:23.120 --> 00:04:27.039 So the ECL image, just because 00:04:27.040 --> 00:04:28.959 I chose to do it like this, 00:04:28.960 --> 00:04:33.279 is using Emacs client and Emacs server going via, 00:04:33.280 --> 00:04:35.239 I guess it's executing a program 00:04:35.240 --> 00:04:36.439 rather than using a shell. 00:04:36.440 --> 00:04:40.639 And Yeah, I was letting somebody else 00:04:40.640 --> 00:04:42.439 use Slime eval in Emacs. 00:04:42.440 --> 00:04:45.039 It would have been simpler 00:04:45.040 --> 00:04:48.319 if everybody just used Slime eval in Emacs. 00:04:48.320 --> 00:04:50.919 I thought I was getting something 00:04:50.920 --> 00:04:56.079 out of adding Emacs server into the mix. 00:04:56.080 --> 00:04:57.319 What's somebody saying? 00:04:57.320 --> 00:05:00.319 Idaj is weirded out by doing get foo bar 00:05:00.320 --> 00:05:02.439 instead of get foo quote bar. 00:05:02.440 --> 00:05:04.359 Yeah, that was Sandewall's choice. 00:05:04.360 --> 00:05:06.679 He was trying to pitch Lisp 00:05:06.680 --> 00:05:09.159 to logic notation people, 00:05:09.160 --> 00:05:12.319 so he lets people put commas in 00:05:12.320 --> 00:05:15.559 and then ignores them in certain expressions, 00:05:15.560 --> 00:05:18.679 and he doesn't have these Lisp-style quotes. 00:05:18.680 --> 00:05:22.439 Idaj is obviously from like Schlumberger 00:05:22.440 --> 00:05:24.879 and wherever else she was at in 00:05:24.880 --> 00:05:28.039 in the kind of list of traditions. 00:05:28.040 --> 00:05:30.359 Full of Spain is saying good observation. 00:05:30.360 --> 00:05:33.839 Yidaj is shocked that she's being mentioned. 00:05:33.840 --> 00:05:40.519 Interestingly Nosredna yduJ capitalizes Nosredna at the front, 00:05:40.520 --> 00:05:45.079 but she capitalizes yduJ at the back, just for clarity. 00:05:45.080 --> 00:05:49.199 You should read her Stanford page or her recipe site 00:05:49.200 --> 00:05:57.999 or anything if you're not clear on who yduJ is. 00:05:58.000 --> 00:06:00.679 It's actually you're looking for the word eclipsed. 00:06:00.680 --> 00:06:03.559 I think she eclipsed a dodge, 00:06:03.560 --> 00:06:06.119 I think is the English phrase that you're looking for. 00:06:06.120 --> 00:06:08.839 He does just saying she would not. 00:06:08.840 --> 00:06:10.519 She's no matter what I say 00:06:10.520 --> 00:06:13.039 she's not going to hug my software agent 00:06:13.040 --> 00:06:20.719 like she would hug a grandchild eyes me warily. 00:06:20.720 --> 00:06:22.119 And Sasha is not going to. 00:06:22.120 --> 00:06:24.759 Totally not training a general intelligence 00:06:24.760 --> 00:06:26.199 who requires a lot of data 00:06:26.200 --> 00:06:28.959 and also cuddles. Okay, so everybody who has children 00:06:28.960 --> 00:06:31.599 is disagreeing with me quoting Sandewall, 00:06:31.600 --> 00:06:33.319 who did have children and grandchildren, 00:06:33.320 --> 00:06:36.119 saying that he wanted machine intelligences 00:06:36.120 --> 00:06:37.759 to be like his grandchild. 00:06:37.760 --> 00:06:40.839 GGXX is saying somebody on Etherpad 00:06:40.840 --> 00:06:43.119 is asking what the Leonardo system is. 00:06:43.120 --> 00:06:46.599 Sandewall is a LISP scientist 00:06:46.600 --> 00:06:51.159 from the 60s, 70s, 80s, 90s, 90s, 10s. 00:06:51.160 --> 00:06:55.599 with things like bronze statues of him in Sweden. 00:06:55.600 --> 00:06:59.599 People outside of the Swedish-speaking sphere of science 00:06:59.600 --> 00:07:01.119 are less familiar with him. 00:07:01.120 --> 00:07:04.119 I guess he famously taught Robert Strand 00:07:04.120 --> 00:07:08.319 how to program in LISP, if that places him for you. 00:07:08.320 --> 00:07:10.199 What else did he do? 00:07:10.200 --> 00:07:15.599 Yeah, so he was on a kind of long trajectory of AI, 00:07:15.600 --> 00:07:18.039 which would now be called good old-fashioned AI. 00:07:18.040 --> 00:07:22.639 And he was coming from the situation calculus, 00:07:22.640 --> 00:07:26.559 then activity calculus kind of direction, 00:07:26.560 --> 00:07:28.759 which are extended first order logics 00:07:28.760 --> 00:07:31.559 for reasoning about change over time. 00:07:31.560 --> 00:07:35.759 And his last program he contributed to the world was this. 00:07:35.760 --> 00:07:39.319 From 2005 to 2014, he worked on 00:07:39.320 --> 00:07:43.479 this Leonardo system for his master's program. 00:07:43.480 --> 00:07:45.279 He was teaching at that time 00:07:45.280 --> 00:07:48.519 at the University of Linköping in Sweden. 00:07:48.520 --> 00:07:53.199 And... Then he just kind of gradually faded from view 00:07:53.200 --> 00:07:55.519 while he wrote his unpublished books 00:07:55.520 --> 00:08:01.639 on reasoning and change, I guess, between 2010 and 2014. 00:08:01.640 --> 00:08:03.959 And then I just kind of noticed this eventually. 00:08:03.960 --> 00:08:07.839 And I brought that software back. And that's what this is. 00:08:07.840 --> 00:08:09.999 And that's why it kind of weirdly exists. 00:08:10.000 --> 00:08:15.479 Welcome to Khaki Guest. Magenta Guest is gone. 00:08:15.480 --> 00:08:16.759 Pink Guest is gone. 00:08:16.760 --> 00:08:23.639 Blue Guest has arrived. Great. Somebody order six. 00:08:23.640 --> 00:08:26.239 Everybody orders sake from Emily. 00:08:26.240 --> 00:08:29.599 We're hanging out in Jay Lamott's sushi bar in Lambda, 00:08:29.600 --> 00:08:31.639 which is on the model railway 00:08:31.640 --> 00:08:35.599 on the table in the second guest bedroom in Lambda House 00:08:35.600 --> 00:08:36.639 where we're all hanging out. 00:08:36.640 --> 00:08:43.559 Oh, I think GGXX is ordering people up things. 00:08:43.560 --> 00:08:46.399 You know, just teach people about this. 00:08:46.400 --> 00:08:52.279 All right, I'm going to try looking 00:08:52.280 --> 00:08:55.519 at the etherpad manually. Sorry, I can read you. 00:08:55.520 --> 00:08:57.319 So the next question you have, 00:08:57.320 --> 00:09:00.479 somebody says, I found Eduardo's blog. 00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:03.199 OK, you just got through that. 00:09:03.200 --> 00:09:06.199 And then we were also, a question you answered 00:09:06.200 --> 00:09:10.799 is the other one that I see here, just about Lambda Moo. 00:09:10.800 --> 00:09:14.199 And I think you started to answer in the pad. 00:09:14.200 --> 00:09:16.079 But if you want to kind of read that out. 00:09:16.080 --> 00:09:19.119 I definitely haven't written anything in the pad. 00:09:19.120 --> 00:09:23.719 I'm going to just talk to Khaki Guest in Lambda. 00:09:23.720 --> 00:09:25.879 Sure, so why don't you do a little bit 00:09:25.880 --> 00:09:27.279 and just read this question. 00:09:27.280 --> 00:09:31.279 The question was, what is LambdaMOO and how do we use it? 00:09:31.280 --> 00:09:33.399 LambdaMOO is a module introduction, 00:09:33.400 --> 00:09:35.319 and you can tell that to it. 00:09:35.320 --> 00:09:36.799 There's instructions in the pad. 00:09:36.800 --> 00:09:40.039 I'll go ahead and drop that in the gen channel 00:09:40.040 --> 00:09:42.599 or in the dev channel chat right now. 00:09:42.600 --> 00:09:46.919 And I see it is already in there. 00:09:46.920 --> 00:09:49.559 But down at the bottom 00:09:49.560 --> 00:09:53.439 of the discussion links feedback area, 00:09:53.440 --> 00:09:55.679 you'll see a set of detailed instructions 00:09:55.680 --> 00:09:58.519 that ScrewList has provided us to get in there. 00:09:58.520 --> 00:10:01.159 I think that was actually GGXX 00:10:01.160 --> 00:10:03.959 who might have written that for us. 00:10:03.960 --> 00:10:08.039 Several changes evolved in the last 10 minutes 00:10:08.040 --> 00:10:09.679 before we went live here. 00:10:09.680 --> 00:10:12.839 But yeah, so LambdaMoo is 00:10:12.840 --> 00:10:14.879 the world's longest-running virtual reality. 00:10:14.880 --> 00:10:19.119 I guess it started in the end of October in 1990 00:10:19.120 --> 00:10:21.759 and has run continuously to today. 00:10:21.760 --> 00:10:24.599 You can get there, ideally, with a MUD client. 00:10:24.600 --> 00:10:27.479 Technically, it's a MUD, comma, object-oriented. 00:10:27.480 --> 00:10:30.199 This is just where I hang out some degree of the week. 00:10:30.200 --> 00:10:36.799 yduJ is the wizard yduJ, or sorry, 00:10:36.800 --> 00:10:40.919 yduJ is also the wizard Nosredna of Lambdomoo, for example. 00:10:40.920 --> 00:10:44.479 It kind of fits into quite less history. 00:10:44.480 --> 00:10:47.679 I guess Pavel Curtis would have started in 1990 00:10:47.680 --> 00:10:52.799 for Xerox PARC, originally. Just to go to what Khaki Guest 00:10:52.800 --> 00:10:54.839 has been continuing to talk about. 00:10:54.840 --> 00:10:57.799 Welcome to Brown, Guest, as well, I guess. 00:10:57.800 --> 00:11:03.399 Aki Guest says, to Screwtape, 00:11:03.400 --> 00:11:04.959 it seems like you're trying to build 00:11:04.960 --> 00:11:07.279 a more restrictive Turing test 00:11:07.280 --> 00:11:11.159 using the input output logs of an Emacs conversation. 00:11:11.160 --> 00:11:12.159 Is that accurate? 00:11:12.160 --> 00:11:15.079 Can you explain this idea of if it is intelligent, 00:11:15.080 --> 00:11:17.239 I'd like it to be like me? 00:11:17.240 --> 00:11:20.039 Otherwise, I don't know what intelligence is. 00:11:20.040 --> 00:11:21.959 Doesn't that seem a little egocentric? 00:11:21.960 --> 00:11:25.399 Is that a joke or a genuine definition of intelligence? 00:11:25.400 --> 00:11:27.439 Why do you think the link between 00:11:27.440 --> 00:11:30.519 input-output of Emacs human input-output 00:11:30.520 --> 00:11:33.919 is stronger than other forms of Turing tests? 00:11:33.920 --> 00:11:36.319 So I'm going to misread Turing tests 00:11:36.320 --> 00:11:37.839 for a moment as Turing-complete. 00:11:37.840 --> 00:11:40.279 And Sandewall's system is very specifically 00:11:40.280 --> 00:11:45.519 Our first-order logic, if we don't extend it, 00:11:45.520 --> 00:11:49.239 is not Turing-complete, for starters. 00:11:49.240 --> 00:11:51.959 And things like situation calculus, 00:11:51.960 --> 00:11:53.839 McCarthy's situation calculus, 00:11:53.840 --> 00:11:55.239 which I guess is prior to 00:11:55.240 --> 00:11:58.439 Sandewall's Leonardo's calculus, 00:11:58.440 --> 00:12:02.319 are extended first-order logics 00:12:02.320 --> 00:12:03.959 for reasoning about change. 00:12:03.960 --> 00:12:05.519 And so they're slightly 00:12:05.520 --> 00:12:07.639 more restricted than conventional, 00:12:07.640 --> 00:12:10.239 than general-purpose computer programs. 00:12:10.240 --> 00:12:14.639 And then what you're saying is, if it's intelligent, 00:12:14.640 --> 00:12:16.119 I'd expect it to be like me. 00:12:16.120 --> 00:12:19.799 I'm really just paraphrasing what Sandewall says about, 00:12:19.800 --> 00:12:23.319 well, he thinks his grandchildren are intelligent. 00:12:23.320 --> 00:12:24.759 So if a computer is intelligent, 00:12:24.760 --> 00:12:26.239 he thinks the computer will have to be 00:12:26.240 --> 00:12:28.039 similar to his grandchildren. 00:12:28.040 --> 00:12:32.279 This is in contrast to people 00:12:32.280 --> 00:12:33.839 who are using the terms AI 00:12:33.840 --> 00:12:37.319 to mean something a graphics card does 00:12:37.320 --> 00:12:41.319 with extremely specialized bulk matrix multiplication 00:12:41.320 --> 00:12:43.919 for a very short period of time 00:12:43.920 --> 00:12:47.519 on absolutely gigantic electrical 00:12:47.520 --> 00:12:50.159 and kind of memory and computing resources, 00:12:50.160 --> 00:12:51.519 which doesn't look at all like what 00:12:51.520 --> 00:12:54.999 Sandewall's grandchildren were doing. 00:12:55.000 --> 00:12:56.399 And this is why I'm kind of saying, 00:12:56.400 --> 00:12:57.559 well, if I have an agent, 00:12:57.560 --> 00:13:00.839 And my agent is quite simple. 00:13:00.840 --> 00:13:04.519 It uses Emacs server and Emacs client 00:13:04.520 --> 00:13:07.559 to send lines of basically extended 00:13:07.560 --> 00:13:09.199 first-order logic to the agent, 00:13:09.200 --> 00:13:12.959 and the agent then takes a kind of 00:13:12.960 --> 00:13:15.399 first-order logic-y action. 00:13:15.400 --> 00:13:21.079 And I was making the point 00:13:21.080 --> 00:13:23.479 that this looks more like me computing 00:13:23.480 --> 00:13:27.519 using of REPL-driven development like EEV, 00:13:27.520 --> 00:13:30.479 where in EEV I have basically a log 00:13:30.480 --> 00:13:32.119 of something I've previously done, 00:13:32.120 --> 00:13:34.239 and I can tap F8 and execute 00:13:34.240 --> 00:13:36.479 line after line after line. 00:13:36.480 --> 00:13:38.839 And I think if I see an agent doing that, 00:13:38.840 --> 00:13:40.399 I can clearly understand 00:13:40.400 --> 00:13:43.639 and relate to what the agent is doing. 00:13:43.640 --> 00:13:45.519 And so I'm not classifying 00:13:45.520 --> 00:13:49.399 Like, I never do gigabytes and gigabytes 00:13:49.400 --> 00:13:52.279 and gigabytes of matrix multiplications, 00:13:52.280 --> 00:13:54.959 so I can't relate to this as an idea of intelligence. 00:13:54.960 --> 00:13:57.919 Sorry. Welcome to GreenGuest teleporting in. 00:13:57.920 --> 00:14:02.759 FullSpain is saying, no one truly knows what intelligence is. 00:14:02.760 --> 00:14:10.759 All right. I kind of wished that this was working, 00:14:10.760 --> 00:14:13.199 because just before we went live, they said, 00:14:13.200 --> 00:14:15.919 hey, just have your example working quickly. 00:14:15.920 --> 00:14:18.999 Then I downloaded my example from my blog, 00:14:19.000 --> 00:14:22.479 and I'd double escaped some characters 00:14:22.480 --> 00:14:26.799 so that the escaped characters would show up in my blog. 00:14:26.800 --> 00:14:29.759 And I caused a lot of rampant chaos. 00:14:29.760 --> 00:14:32.319 If anyone else has a question. 00:14:32.320 --> 00:14:40.759 Guest has said, but. So. Great. 00:14:40.760 --> 00:14:47.279 I guess I could go back and try it. 00:14:47.280 --> 00:14:50.399 I probably should have jumped in a couple of minutes ago 00:14:50.400 --> 00:14:53.279 and just said the live stream did cut over, 00:14:53.280 --> 00:14:54.919 but we're continuing to record this 00:14:54.920 --> 00:14:57.119 and the whole session will be published 00:14:57.120 --> 00:14:58.399 along with the video on the website. 00:14:58.400 --> 00:15:04.079 Oh, well. Sorry about that. I tried that. 00:15:04.080 --> 00:15:06.799 I just lost a couple of minutes there 00:15:06.800 --> 00:15:08.879 and failed to give you the smooth morning. 00:15:08.880 --> 00:15:14.199 Oh, no, no. That's fine. I was just kind of rambling. 00:15:14.200 --> 00:15:16.959 Listen. Don't download a web page 00:15:16.960 --> 00:15:19.799 and try and convert it to an org file on the fly 00:15:19.800 --> 00:15:21.959 and just before you go live somewhere 00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:23.319 is the kind of moral here. 00:15:23.320 --> 00:15:27.799 You know, just saying that's pretty graphics, but it's long. 00:15:27.800 --> 00:15:29.399 She's dropping. See you later. Yeah. 00:15:29.400 --> 00:15:31.239 Let's, let's, let's all get out of here. 00:15:31.240 --> 00:15:32.399 Basically. I'm going to go see 00:15:32.400 --> 00:15:36.159 if I can look at this ether pad one last time 00:15:36.160 --> 00:15:37.639 and see if there are any questions 00:15:37.640 --> 00:15:39.359 just to not leave anyone else. 00:15:39.360 --> 00:15:43.559 Anyone out much to their chagrin possibly. 00:15:43.560 --> 00:15:47.639 Um, how to connect to LambdaMu, seems great. 00:15:47.640 --> 00:15:52.159 Oh, interesting guides, somebody wrote that. 00:15:52.160 --> 00:15:55.439 What do you mean by slowly? Yeah, so I'm saying taking 00:15:55.440 --> 00:15:57.279 a simple action every 20 seconds, 00:15:57.280 --> 00:15:59.079 this still adds up to a lot over time. 00:15:59.080 --> 00:16:01.599 Question, do you think that it would be, 00:16:01.600 --> 00:16:04.079 yeah, well, if you've used Slime, 00:16:04.080 --> 00:16:05.959 and hence you're using Swank, 00:16:05.960 --> 00:16:07.239 you can just Swank, Eval, 00:16:07.240 --> 00:16:08.839 and Emacs would be the more trivial way. 00:16:08.840 --> 00:16:10.719 I felt like I was getting something bonus 00:16:10.720 --> 00:16:13.959 by using, um, Emacs server. 00:16:13.960 --> 00:16:17.359 Somebody has a link to Eduardo's blog, 00:16:17.360 --> 00:16:19.839 which I think has been misspelled. 00:16:19.840 --> 00:16:23.079 It should be angkwu with no dot there, 00:16:23.080 --> 00:16:27.199 dot net, sharp sign EEV. 00:16:27.200 --> 00:16:31.519 So, Eduardo is the author of EEV mode. 00:16:31.520 --> 00:16:33.079 I found Eduardo's thing. 00:16:33.080 --> 00:16:36.199 Oh, this was the question, what is the Leonardo system, 00:16:36.200 --> 00:16:38.479 which I just answered. 00:16:38.480 --> 00:16:42.959 What is LambdaMOO? How do you use it? 00:16:42.960 --> 00:16:45.559 It's a mud, comma, object-oriented. 00:16:45.560 --> 00:16:49.319 So it's a multi-user dungeon kind of classical video game, 00:16:49.320 --> 00:16:52.799 still popular, but with extended object-oriented facilities. 00:16:52.800 --> 00:16:57.359 Companies like Harlequin, which yduJ 00:16:57.360 --> 00:17:00.319 and Ken Pitman, for example, were at, I think, in the 90s. 00:17:00.320 --> 00:17:05.319 Instead of modernly, you'd have Slack web apps or something. 00:17:05.320 --> 00:17:08.079 People used to have these MOOs and things. 00:17:08.080 --> 00:17:15.519 Okay, the music that's replaced me is evidently quite nice. 00:17:15.520 --> 00:17:22.119 Yes, get the hints. Thanks for being here. 00:17:22.120 --> 00:17:29.359 Well, let's continue this diatribe 00:17:29.360 --> 00:17:33.639 possibly on the Mastodon or something like that. 00:17:33.640 --> 00:17:35.999 We'll do some kind of... 00:17:36.000 --> 00:17:40.519 Let me thank you one more time for preparing this talk 00:17:40.520 --> 00:17:44.359 and for all that you do for the Free Software community 00:17:44.360 --> 00:17:47.879 and especially for Emacs. particularly appreciate you. 00:17:47.880 --> 00:17:50.439 Thank you for all you do for the Free Software community 00:17:50.440 --> 00:17:53.319 and particularly Emacs, Corwin and Bruce. 00:17:53.320 --> 00:17:56.079 I'm still waiting for a working demo of Dungeon Mode. 00:17:56.080 --> 00:17:58.559 My joke that I was setting up and never had a chance for 00:17:58.560 --> 00:17:59.959 was that I was going to say 00:17:59.960 --> 00:18:03.599 I wanted my agent to be using Dungeon Mode in Emacs. 00:18:03.600 --> 00:18:05.999 How's that? Okay, well, we'll work on that. 00:18:06.000 --> 00:18:10.119 That could be a project for the two of us in our copious free time. 00:18:10.120 --> 00:18:13.559 Definitely. Yeah. Okay. I'll let you go. 00:18:13.560 --> 00:18:14.679 I'm gonna abandon this stream. 00:18:14.680 --> 00:18:17.039 All right. I'll end out the recording 00:18:17.040 --> 00:18:24.560 and thanks to all who participated. Okay. See you later.