WEBVTT 00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:05.199 Greetings. Salaam again. I'm delighted to be here 00:00:05.200 --> 00:00:11.199 and happy to answer your questions. 00:00:11.200 --> 00:00:12.839 I'm not seeing anything yet, 00:00:12.840 --> 00:00:17.679 but let me take advantage of this time 00:00:17.680 --> 00:00:20.120 to speak about one question that I saw 00:00:20.080 --> 00:00:22.879 come in earlier on the pad, NOTE Q: Where do we find all the inputs and outputs you mentioned? 00:00:22.880 --> 00:00:25.540 which was all the outputs 00:00:25.541 --> 00:00:29.399 and the inputs that you mentioned, where are they? 00:00:29.400 --> 00:00:35.439 So they are on GitHub, and this is in one of my slides. 00:00:35.440 --> 00:00:41.939 I mentioned the URL for it. I'll show you that as well. 00:00:41.940 --> 00:00:50.391 So the URL for it is https://github.com/bxplpc/180068, 00:00:50.392 --> 00:00:58.679 which is the handle for this talk. 00:00:58.680 --> 00:01:06.039 In there, you have all the PDFs and the HTMLs, 00:01:06.040 --> 00:01:12.119 a citation, a bib input, and also the sources. 00:01:12.120 --> 00:01:19.439 So if you were to go to the PDF, you will see 00:01:19.440 --> 00:01:24.319 um, both the article presentation and the beamer, 00:01:24.320 --> 00:01:27.279 let's take a quick look at the beamer, 00:01:27.280 --> 00:01:34.159 which is what you have seen. So. 00:01:34.160 --> 00:01:40.279 And as far as the sources are, there are two primary files. 00:01:40.280 --> 00:01:44.120 This presentation, left to right, 00:01:44.121 --> 00:01:50.919 is the one that includes all the LaTeX packages. 00:01:50.920 --> 00:01:52.641 We might as well take a quick look. 00:01:52.642 --> 00:01:57.600 So what's in there is primarily the use packages. 00:01:57.601 --> 00:02:06.999 And then it dispatches to bodyPresArt, 00:02:07.000 --> 00:02:11.519 and this is where the code is. 00:02:11.520 --> 00:02:14.559 And I walked through this briefly. 00:02:14.560 --> 00:02:26.839 So, notice here again that this is a mixture of LaTeX and Org. 00:02:26.840 --> 00:02:31.039 Each of the presentation slides are here. 00:02:31.040 --> 00:02:34.519 For example, my introduction 00:02:34.520 --> 00:02:37.239 is just a video that gets included. 00:02:37.240 --> 00:02:41.119 And then the notes that I use, the voiceover, 00:02:41.120 --> 00:02:47.319 is also included in the LaTeX file. 00:02:47.320 --> 00:02:50.079 Let me... It'll probably be easy 00:02:50.080 --> 00:02:52.399 to take those voiceover notes 00:02:52.400 --> 00:02:54.959 and then align them with a tool like Aeneas 00:02:54.960 --> 00:02:58.399 to make subtitles for your videos. 00:02:58.400 --> 00:03:01.199 Exactly, and that is what I do. 00:03:01.200 --> 00:03:08.519 So there is a way to gather them all as P-notes. 00:03:08.520 --> 00:03:13.839 And so all the P-notes get together in a single file, 00:03:13.840 --> 00:03:20.599 and then you feed that to Aeneas, and it will align them. 00:03:20.600 --> 00:03:23.319 And then there is the work of using your subed 00:03:23.320 --> 00:03:30.279 to just get the right sort of line length on them. 00:03:30.280 --> 00:03:33.039 But you did all of that for me this year, Sacha. 00:03:33.040 --> 00:03:34.519 Thank you very much. 00:03:34.520 --> 00:03:37.559 It was just a matter of not having time. 00:03:37.560 --> 00:03:43.559 Otherwise, I planned to do it myself. It's all right. 00:03:43.560 --> 00:03:46.639 It was very easy since he provided the full narration. 00:03:46.640 --> 00:03:50.399 I still need to tweak it sometimes, 00:03:50.400 --> 00:03:52.919 so I often use the waveforms in subed 00:03:52.920 --> 00:03:58.559 to find the right starting time and ending time for things. 00:03:58.560 --> 00:04:01.519 But it is so nice to have a presentation 00:04:01.520 --> 00:04:03.879 where you can experience it in different forms, 00:04:03.880 --> 00:04:10.159 as an article, as a video, as a post with links and everything. 00:04:10.160 --> 00:04:11.479 Very handy. 00:04:11.480 --> 00:04:20.919 Right, and in case a teacher uses this for class lectures, 00:04:20.920 --> 00:04:26.079 then the student profits from all sorts. 00:04:26.080 --> 00:04:28.999 The article presentation format is very useful 00:04:29.000 --> 00:04:33.239 for a student to add their own notes to it and the rest. 00:04:33.240 --> 00:04:37.519 Exactly as you said, having multiple forms is great. 00:04:37.520 --> 00:04:40.479 Video has its place, reveal has its place, 00:04:40.480 --> 00:04:44.039 PDF has its place, article has its place. 00:04:44.040 --> 00:04:48.399 All of them work together. NOTE Making presentations easier to distribute 00:04:48.400 --> 00:04:50.479 I've been having a hard time figuring out 00:04:50.480 --> 00:04:54.719 how to make the reveal.js version of a presentation 00:04:54.720 --> 00:04:56.999 more easily distributable, though. 00:04:57.000 --> 00:04:58.839 This is something we've had a hard time 00:04:58.840 --> 00:05:00.199 with in the past, too. 00:05:00.200 --> 00:05:02.759 You have these lovely EmacsConf presentations 00:05:02.760 --> 00:05:04.839 that could be reveal presentations, 00:05:04.840 --> 00:05:07.759 but hosting them doesn't quite fit 00:05:07.760 --> 00:05:13.639 in the usual assumptions people have. Exactly, exactly. 00:05:13.640 --> 00:05:16.559 So if we were to have a reveal server, 00:05:16.560 --> 00:05:20.479 then we could upload our reveal inputs to it. 00:05:20.480 --> 00:05:24.999 But you're right, we should look 00:05:25.000 --> 00:05:26.679 for some sort of a packaging 00:05:26.680 --> 00:05:34.079 that is more plug and distribute. Yeah, so I'd be all game 00:05:34.080 --> 00:05:36.919 if we wanted to do it for next year, 00:05:36.920 --> 00:05:42.039 I'd be happy to provide all the reveal outputs. NOTE Reveal output 00:05:42.040 --> 00:05:45.919 In fact, they are here, let me touch on that quickly. 00:05:45.920 --> 00:05:53.639 Good point you brought up. So, this is the Reveal output. 00:05:53.640 --> 00:05:57.519 So all of these, you see the images and the audio 00:05:57.520 --> 00:06:02.359 in my own environment are SIM links to where I keep them. 00:06:02.360 --> 00:06:06.239 So those need to come in, 00:06:06.240 --> 00:06:10.599 but the reveal output really comes right here. 00:06:10.600 --> 00:06:13.679 And this is how it looks. 00:06:13.680 --> 00:06:15.679 If that's a link you can add to the pad, 00:06:15.680 --> 00:06:19.799 then I can add you to the top page afterwards. 00:06:19.800 --> 00:06:21.839 I think as a, as a speaker, 00:06:21.840 --> 00:06:24.119 I tend to just self host the thing. 00:06:24.120 --> 00:06:28.319 And that way also, if I find a bug, which often happens, 00:06:28.320 --> 00:06:30.679 I can go and quietly update it. 00:06:30.680 --> 00:06:36.439 Exactly. Exactly. Sure. Sure. Yeah. 00:06:36.440 --> 00:06:44.239 This right now, what we are looking at is from GitHub. 00:06:44.240 --> 00:06:48.599 And the audio and the images, of course, are large, 00:06:48.600 --> 00:06:55.759 and I did not upload them. But I can send them, sure. 00:06:55.760 --> 00:07:01.999 So, a few other things maybe I can elaborate on. 00:07:02.000 --> 00:07:08.639 This is the bootstrapping page for BISOS, also on there. 00:07:08.640 --> 00:07:11.079 And if somebody wanted to actually 00:07:11.080 --> 00:07:12.919 dig deeper and go through this, 00:07:12.920 --> 00:07:18.959 a good starting point would be my GitHub page. 00:07:18.960 --> 00:07:24.639 But my GitHub page is not done and organized the usual way. 00:07:24.640 --> 00:07:26.999 So I only have three repositories 00:07:27.000 --> 00:07:30.359 and the repositories basically say, 00:07:30.360 --> 00:07:32.266 here is where you need to go. 00:07:32.267 --> 00:07:39.159 So all of my work is organized as organizations. 00:07:39.160 --> 00:07:48.039 So, for example, for Emacs, if you were to go to BxBlee, 00:07:48.040 --> 00:07:56.359 you will see all the relevant repos for that purpose. 00:07:56.360 --> 00:07:58.975 So, for example, if you wanted to 00:07:58.976 --> 00:08:03.319 come and take a look at mail template, 00:08:03.320 --> 00:08:08.719 templating, distribution, and tracking, 00:08:08.720 --> 00:08:14.999 you would get a Emacs package ready to go over here. NOTE GitHub organizations 00:08:15.000 --> 00:08:23.479 But again, all of this is through the use of GitHub organizations. 00:08:23.480 --> 00:08:26.399 So my repos are by subject 00:08:26.400 --> 00:08:33.239 and the BISOS itself has 69 repositories 00:08:33.240 --> 00:08:38.719 where different sections of it are packaged as PIP packages. 00:08:38.720 --> 00:08:42.359 So, for example, for LCNT, we can go there. 00:08:42.360 --> 00:08:46.439 So, these are the packages that let you, 00:08:46.440 --> 00:08:53.159 let me go there, that let you dissect. 00:08:53.160 --> 00:08:55.199 Sorry, you have your slides shared at the moment, 00:08:55.200 --> 00:08:59.599 so I don't know if you're in a different tab. 00:08:59.600 --> 00:09:03.079 Oh, am I in a different tab? 00:09:03.080 --> 00:09:06.399 I thought that that would follow me. 00:09:06.400 --> 00:09:16.119 Yes, I am in a different tab. Let me see. 00:09:16.120 --> 00:09:19.879 This is the one that you are seeing, 00:09:19.880 --> 00:09:28.839 so let me go over here. Perfect. Now you're seeing it. 00:09:28.840 --> 00:09:31.279 So literally on the same page. Awesome. Right. 00:09:31.280 --> 00:09:33.679 So you were not actually seeing what I was saying. 00:09:33.680 --> 00:09:36.159 So, so what I was saying that is that 00:09:36.160 --> 00:09:42.159 if you go to my primary website, GitHub page, 00:09:42.160 --> 00:09:45.439 you will see that there are only three repos there. 00:09:45.440 --> 00:09:49.759 And those repos just give information 00:09:49.760 --> 00:09:52.959 about where the real repos are. 00:09:52.960 --> 00:09:57.399 And the real repos are organized in various organizations. 00:09:57.400 --> 00:10:06.719 So, for example, for Emacs packages, I use the bxblee 00:10:06.720 --> 00:10:11.999 And in there, there are 40 repositories. 00:10:12.000 --> 00:10:15.399 And as an example, you can choose, for example, 00:10:15.400 --> 00:10:26.519 AI plus is just a few additional libraries for menus, for Aidermacs. 00:10:26.520 --> 00:10:31.719 And the rest of BLEE is done that way as well. 00:10:31.720 --> 00:10:36.919 So if you were to let me also show 00:10:36.920 --> 00:10:43.759 more relevant stuff to the content generation. 00:10:43.760 --> 00:10:48.839 And everything related to BISOS in Python is in BISOS-PIP. 00:10:48.840 --> 00:10:52.879 These are packages that are ready 00:10:52.880 --> 00:10:57.959 to be exported to pypi and 00:10:57.960 --> 00:11:02.749 For example, for LCNT, if you go here, 00:11:02.750 --> 00:11:04.558 let's go to the bin directory. 00:11:04.559 --> 00:11:15.808 These are the utilities that dissect the PDF output of Beamer 00:11:15.809 --> 00:11:23.839 convert it to images so that you can insert them in Reveal. 00:11:23.840 --> 00:11:29.159 And then again, if you were to just wanted to dig deeper 00:11:29.160 --> 00:11:34.759 in any of these as components, 00:11:34.760 --> 00:11:40.559 you would simply start from this top level page 00:11:40.560 --> 00:11:44.719 and explore the organizations. 00:11:44.720 --> 00:11:48.719 So in total, maybe there is 300 repos, 00:11:48.720 --> 00:11:54.279 but they are organized by subject matter 00:11:54.280 --> 00:12:03.399 within GitHub organizations. 00:12:03.400 --> 00:12:10.799 Yeah. One additional general comment. 00:12:10.800 --> 00:12:13.039 If you were to look at my presentation, 00:12:13.040 --> 00:12:17.519 I'd say I touched on five different topics. 00:12:17.520 --> 00:12:24.039 So, one topic was this content generation in general. NOTE Challenge of DIY model and recipes 00:12:24.040 --> 00:12:35.279 The second one was this challenge of DIY model and recipes 00:12:35.280 --> 00:12:38.319 versus building something large 00:12:38.320 --> 00:12:40.919 and including everything in it. 00:12:40.920 --> 00:12:43.519 And that is, that has been the motivation 00:12:43.520 --> 00:12:46.919 for BISOS and BLEE. 00:12:46.920 --> 00:12:50.279 And I'm interested in getting feedback on it. 00:12:50.280 --> 00:12:54.519 In general, the open source culture 00:12:54.520 --> 00:13:00.719 has been focusing on components 00:13:00.720 --> 00:13:03.439 and large American corporations 00:13:03.440 --> 00:13:07.719 have focused in integration of these components. 00:13:07.720 --> 00:13:11.679 So my short message here is that 00:13:11.680 --> 00:13:17.959 we should start thinking as providing solutions 00:13:17.960 --> 00:13:23.519 as opposed to minor pieces and packages 00:13:23.520 --> 00:13:30.599 and put them all together and claim them as our own digital ecosystem. 00:13:30.600 --> 00:13:38.319 And this is the concept behind ByStar, BISOS and BLEE. 00:13:38.320 --> 00:13:40.999 The third point I was making throughout 00:13:41.000 --> 00:13:45.479 is this concept of dynamic blocks everywhere, 00:13:45.480 --> 00:13:51.599 and Comeega, which is the inverse of Babel. 00:13:51.600 --> 00:13:57.479 And I'd also be interested in feedback on those. NOTE Dblocks everywhere 00:13:57.480 --> 00:14:03.239 I think the dblocks everywhere concept, 00:14:03.240 --> 00:14:13.079 I can very quickly show that. 00:14:13.080 --> 00:14:18.039 it would be in the LaTeX file, as an example. 00:14:18.040 --> 00:14:23.319 I didn't really do a good job in digging deeper into that. 00:14:23.320 --> 00:14:25.479 So if you go to the sources 00:14:25.480 --> 00:14:31.319 and you look at any of the slides, 00:14:31.320 --> 00:14:39.719 All the slides are in here inside of a dynamic block. 00:14:39.720 --> 00:14:41.919 This is an org dblock, 00:14:41.920 --> 00:14:46.919 but you would invoke it in LaTeX mode. 00:14:46.920 --> 00:14:51.199 And then from this begin to this end, 00:14:51.200 --> 00:14:54.559 everything is auto-generated 00:14:54.560 --> 00:15:00.039 through the Elisp function, body:mm/video. 00:15:00.040 --> 00:15:06.879 And the parameters that it takes are the video path. 00:15:06.880 --> 00:15:12.239 So all of this code is repeated all over the place. 00:15:12.240 --> 00:15:15.799 And all you need in it is the video path. 00:15:15.800 --> 00:15:21.959 So it's very easy to think of this as a macro capability, 00:15:21.960 --> 00:15:25.079 except that the macro is visible. 00:15:25.080 --> 00:15:29.479 And it has one additional benefit 00:15:29.480 --> 00:15:34.799 on top of general macro capabilities, 00:15:34.800 --> 00:15:36.759 and that is that it's open. 00:15:36.760 --> 00:15:41.679 In this particular case, it closes, 00:15:41.680 --> 00:15:46.439 but let me show you another one where it is open. 00:15:46.440 --> 00:15:54.879 So if you look at, this is latex section, this one is good. 00:15:54.880 --> 00:16:00.439 This is a derived image. And by saying that it's open 00:16:00.440 --> 00:16:06.679 is that you see my begin verbatim and my begin frame. 00:16:06.680 --> 00:16:11.439 They end and there is no closing for them. 00:16:11.440 --> 00:16:14.999 So the extra text that is outside 00:16:15.000 --> 00:16:21.319 of the D block and closes it is down here. 00:16:21.320 --> 00:16:24.959 And none of the existing macro capabilities 00:16:24.960 --> 00:16:30.799 gives you this feature. This even comes handy in Lisp. 00:16:30.800 --> 00:16:40.039 So that is a proposal saying 00:16:40.040 --> 00:16:47.719 that let's make D blocks, dynamic blocks, 00:16:47.720 --> 00:16:52.959 generalized to all of Emacs, as opposed to just org mode. 00:16:52.960 --> 00:16:54.759 And that's relatively simple. 00:16:54.760 --> 00:17:01.359 And the Emacs source team could easily decide 00:17:01.360 --> 00:17:02.959 that this is worthwhile doing. 00:17:02.960 --> 00:17:07.759 And then COMEEGA, of course, I've gone 00:17:07.760 --> 00:17:09.959 over it through the presentation. NOTE Q: What changes have you seen in the culture while developing all these things like libre-halal system and now blee-lcnt? 00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:20.399 So, I see 1 question coming in. What changes have you seen? 00:17:20.400 --> 00:17:24.719 the culture while developing all these things 00:17:24.720 --> 00:17:36.279 like Libre-halaal system and now Blee-LCNT? 00:17:36.280 --> 00:17:40.079 Well, it's a work in progress, I would say. 00:17:40.080 --> 00:17:43.039 We learn from one another. 00:17:43.040 --> 00:17:47.719 And what I'm doing may be considered 00:17:47.720 --> 00:17:52.199 just a stepwise increment, 00:17:52.200 --> 00:18:01.799 but the cultural input is that we really should start 00:18:01.800 --> 00:18:09.399 thinking about providing solutions as opposed to packages. 00:18:09.400 --> 00:18:19.319 The FOSS culture is really limited in its scope to packages 00:18:19.320 --> 00:18:24.799 or even if when you think something very large like Debian, 00:18:24.800 --> 00:18:28.159 which is a collection of packages. 00:18:28.160 --> 00:18:31.479 And it is still choice oriented, 00:18:31.480 --> 00:18:55.399 as opposed to solution oriented. 00:18:55.400 --> 00:19:03.599 Yeah. Are there any additional topics or questions? 00:19:03.600 --> 00:19:11.159 Otherwise, I'll just add a few additional concepts. NOTE Intellectual property rights 00:19:11.160 --> 00:19:18.079 So the two other points made throughout the presentations 00:19:18.080 --> 00:19:28.759 are that this statement about clear invalidity 00:19:28.760 --> 00:19:30.719 of the Western IPR regime. 00:19:30.720 --> 00:19:34.399 So throughout the FOSS movement, 00:19:34.400 --> 00:19:42.719 we have been focusing on providing alternative licenses 00:19:42.720 --> 00:19:49.319 which coexist with the IPR system. 00:19:49.320 --> 00:19:52.199 And that is the practical thing to do. 00:19:52.200 --> 00:19:55.879 We are doing a jujitsu on IPR. 00:19:55.880 --> 00:20:00.919 We are saying that this is our license to it. 00:20:00.920 --> 00:20:07.399 But conceptually, there has been little discussion 00:20:07.400 --> 00:20:14.319 and also positioning on this basic question 00:20:14.320 --> 00:20:17.479 as to whether or not copyright 00:20:17.480 --> 00:20:21.119 and patents are valid or invalid. 00:20:21.120 --> 00:20:26.639 And what I am saying is that it is clear that they are invalid, 00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:30.439 particularly once you start looking at them 00:20:30.440 --> 00:20:33.759 with the lens of polyexistentials. 00:20:33.760 --> 00:20:39.239 And that the FOSS movement 00:20:39.240 --> 00:20:42.199 really needs to combine these two, 00:20:42.200 --> 00:20:47.359 this notion of free software and open source licenses, 00:20:47.360 --> 00:20:51.679 and combined with the belief system 00:20:51.680 --> 00:20:55.839 that we are completely and utterly against 00:20:55.840 --> 00:21:00.679 the validity of the Western intellectual property rights regime. 00:21:00.680 --> 00:21:05.399 And I use the Western and the American occasionally, 00:21:05.400 --> 00:21:12.479 and the reason behind that is that in fact it is, they are Western. 00:21:12.480 --> 00:21:16.479 If you go to any other language, if you go to Farsi, 00:21:16.480 --> 00:21:19.079 if you go to Arabic, if you go to Chinese, 00:21:19.080 --> 00:21:24.159 if you go to Japanese, which are non-Western cultures, 00:21:24.160 --> 00:21:28.639 the concept of intellectual property, 00:21:28.640 --> 00:21:33.159 the words, the vocabulary of those 00:21:33.160 --> 00:21:36.639 combination of intellectual and property, 00:21:36.640 --> 00:21:40.559 did not exist anywhere in those cultures. 00:21:40.560 --> 00:21:44.559 It's only in the past, maybe 60, 70 years 00:21:44.560 --> 00:21:52.279 that they have been translated from the Western world and brought into it. 00:21:52.280 --> 00:21:54.639 So there is an inherent root 00:21:54.640 --> 00:21:58.959 into the intellectual property rights system, 00:21:58.960 --> 00:22:02.679 which goes to the Western culture. 00:22:02.680 --> 00:22:08.439 The second point that I have brought into 00:22:08.440 --> 00:22:10.999 this presentation and the previous ones 00:22:11.000 --> 00:22:16.239 is this question of, if we go with free software, 00:22:16.240 --> 00:22:18.119 if we go with open software, 00:22:18.120 --> 00:22:22.159 are we really creating the right labels? 00:22:22.160 --> 00:22:25.679 And my point is that no, neither of them, 00:22:25.680 --> 00:22:29.479 neither free software, nor open source 00:22:29.480 --> 00:22:33.159 are capturing really the essence 00:22:33.160 --> 00:22:36.399 of what we are trying to do. 00:22:36.400 --> 00:22:41.439 And I claim that that is in fact ethics and morality. 00:22:41.440 --> 00:22:48.879 And it is societal belief that if we reject 00:22:48.880 --> 00:22:51.879 intellectual property rights regime, 00:22:51.880 --> 00:22:53.279 what do we replace it with? 00:22:53.280 --> 00:22:58.799 And in my thinking is that a software developer 00:22:58.800 --> 00:23:00.919 does not get to choose 00:23:00.920 --> 00:23:04.919 what license goes with his or her software, 00:23:04.920 --> 00:23:09.319 and that the equivalent of a Affero GPL 00:23:09.320 --> 00:23:13.839 is the default correct license 00:23:13.840 --> 00:23:16.319 to use for all of your software 00:23:16.320 --> 00:23:21.039 because it is the one that reflects the belief system 00:23:21.040 --> 00:23:24.719 that all software should be ethical software. 00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:43.559 Yeah, I'm looking at the Etherpad again and NOTE Q: Given that large AI companies are openly stealing IP and copyright, thereby eroding the authority of such law (and eroding truth itself as well), can you see a future where IP & copyright flaw become untenable and what sort of onwards effect might that have? 00:23:43.560 --> 00:23:48.679 The question is about IP and AI. 00:23:48.680 --> 00:23:54.359 So yeah, over the past two years, 00:23:54.360 --> 00:23:56.599 something huge has happened. 00:23:56.600 --> 00:24:04.919 And what I am seeing in there as a solution 00:24:04.920 --> 00:24:12.319 is essentially comes down to a talk 00:24:12.320 --> 00:24:16.839 that was given maybe two years ago by someone at EmacsConf, 00:24:16.840 --> 00:24:22.359 and its label was attribution-based economics. 00:24:22.360 --> 00:24:28.319 In my thinking, intellectual property 00:24:28.320 --> 00:24:29.839 as a whole is invalid. 00:24:29.840 --> 00:24:36.119 But that means that through something like a Affero GPL, 00:24:36.120 --> 00:24:41.719 you focus on attribution basing, proper attribution basing. 00:24:41.720 --> 00:24:43.839 If somebody has done some work, 00:24:43.840 --> 00:24:48.599 it should be clear, no matter what, that that work is his. 00:24:48.600 --> 00:24:54.879 And that we already, even prior to AI, we were seeing this. 00:24:54.880 --> 00:24:59.399 We were seeing large GitHub repos with hundreds of authors. 00:24:59.400 --> 00:25:09.879 And it was utterly unclear as to who would own this whole thing. 00:25:09.880 --> 00:25:14.119 And any piece of it is not of significance. 00:25:14.120 --> 00:25:16.879 What is of significance is the whole thing. 00:25:16.880 --> 00:25:25.039 So moving towards that attribution based economics is key. 00:25:25.040 --> 00:25:27.599 And then once we do that, 00:25:27.600 --> 00:25:31.919 and then we accept AI as a reality. 00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:38.199 AI should still take very seriously 00:25:38.200 --> 00:25:43.999 and conform to attribution-based economics. 00:25:44.000 --> 00:25:47.879 In other words, what is generated by the machine 00:25:47.880 --> 00:25:51.279 should not be claimed to be no one's 00:25:51.280 --> 00:25:54.239 or the machine owners, the AI owners. 00:25:54.240 --> 00:25:56.879 It should still clearly be attributed 00:25:56.880 --> 00:26:03.039 to the people who contributed in its creation. 00:26:03.040 --> 00:26:06.959 This all becomes very muddy, very clear, 00:26:06.960 --> 00:26:11.919 and I don't have a simple or clear answer to it. 00:26:11.920 --> 00:26:16.079 But the perimeters of the solution lie in 00:26:16.080 --> 00:26:21.479 rejection of intellectual property, 00:26:21.480 --> 00:26:25.039 replacement of the intellectual property 00:26:25.040 --> 00:26:27.399 with attribution-based economics, 00:26:27.400 --> 00:26:31.199 and restrictions on AI use 00:26:31.200 --> 00:26:38.199 of not properly attributed content. 00:26:38.200 --> 00:26:50.239 Yeah, I'd say that would be, it's a complicated topic 00:26:50.240 --> 00:26:56.119 and I would simply say I haven't figured it out at all. 00:26:56.120 --> 00:27:03.759 I just have a perimeter set of concepts 00:27:03.760 --> 00:27:06.479 that can be used to drive it. 00:27:06.480 --> 00:27:20.679 Are there any other questions? If there aren't any, 00:27:20.680 --> 00:27:23.159 I thank everybody again, 00:27:23.160 --> 00:27:27.799 and particularly the EmacsConf organizers and Sacha. 00:27:27.800 --> 00:27:32.639 And I look forward to continuing all of this next year. 00:27:32.640 --> 00:27:39.079 Unless there is any objection, 00:27:39.080 --> 00:27:45.360 I'll leave the session and close it. Thank you.