WEBVTT NOTE Q: Do you have any suggestions for interactive debugging of Julia code in Emacs? 00:00.089 --> 00:00.829 ... answer to that. I, I think the infrastructure for an 00:01.509 --> 00:14.192 ecosystem in Julia in general is as mature as other 00:01.509 --> 00:14.192 languages, and even debugger infiltrator themselves are 00:01.509 --> 00:14.192 not particularly well developed. And so I don't think 00:15.853 --> 00:19.214 there's much we can do about that right now. I think that it's 00:21.570 --> 00:28.057 unfortunate that most of the development for these type of 00:21.570 --> 00:28.057 tools is tightly linked to VS code. But even there, I don't 00:29.218 --> 00:36.225 think that there's much done in terms of interactive 00:29.218 --> 00:36.225 debugging. So I, yeah, I think this has to be worked on mostly 00:36.866 --> 00:43.213 on the Julia side first. And then probably Emacs can get 00:43.820 --> 00:48.303 something out of that. I know that there's development in 00:49.183 --> 00:57.728 debugger.jl itself for future releases to make it at least 00:49.183 --> 00:57.728 faster and more stable. But yeah, I think we're not there as 00:58.809 --> 01:03.852 Julia community itself. So let alone Emacs, integration 01:04.192 --> 01:07.234 with Emacs. The way I personally debug is mostly using, 01:08.286 --> 01:15.508 well, debugger and infiltrator with Julia REPL mode in NOTE Q: Can you call out something that Julia has that Emacs does not, and which could benefit Emacs? 01:08.286 --> 01:15.508 Emacs. The second question, can you call out something that 01:18.009 --> 01:24.891 Julia has that Emacs does not and which could benefit Emacs? 01:26.852 --> 01:27.852 Nothing stands out to me except the usual multi-threading 01:28.848 --> 01:32.552 and things like this. I don't necessarily see something 01:33.432 --> 01:46.783 that Julia has going on that DMX doesn't have, but I see some 01:33.432 --> 01:46.783 differences and approaches that I think are important, 01:33.432 --> 01:46.783 like the community. I think Julia is a very active and tight 01:47.384 --> 01:50.266 community. Julia uses Slack and is very, very active. I 01:54.093 --> 01:57.736 think he might say something like that, but it's maybe more 01:54.093 --> 01:57.736 on Reddit, IRC. JuliaCon is big and brings together lots and 01:59.078 --> 02:02.381 lots of people. And I think the sense of community is really 02:03.221 --> 02:05.263 powerful. It's very easy to essentially meet people that 02:06.364 --> 02:16.834 are interested in what we're building and interested in 02:06.364 --> 02:16.834 what we're doing and interested in Julian, our, you know, 02:06.364 --> 02:16.834 hacker spirit. I think Emacs is a very strong community. 02:21.228 --> 02:26.151 We're here on a Saturday talking about Emacs, which again 02:21.228 --> 02:26.151 proves that we are doing this. But I'd like to emphasize that 02:27.192 --> 02:35.696 the community is a really important aspect in Julia that I 02:27.192 --> 02:35.696 think we should double down on our side. The next question is NOTE Q: Is there a way to use lisp syntax with Julia, like hy for python or lisp flavoured erlang? 02:36.797 --> 02:44.841 about Lisp syntax with Julia, like what we can do in Python. 02:48.038 --> 02:53.180 I don't think that's, I don't, I am not aware of any package 02:48.038 --> 02:53.180 that does that. I would bet that there's something there. I 02:56.722 --> 02:58.063 think that that's possible. Indeed, there used to be a Lisp 02:59.243 --> 03:07.027 interpreter in Julia itself until the latest release. The 03:07.647 --> 03:12.229 syntax parsing was done with a Lisp, it was called TemtoList 03:07.647 --> 03:12.229 indeed. I think this got rid, get rid of this for our more 03:16.124 --> 03:23.489 Julia-based solution that is faster and with better code 03:16.124 --> 03:23.489 provenance. I think that it should be possible to use the 03:25.430 --> 03:35.437 metaprogramming features in Julia to change the structure 03:25.430 --> 03:35.437 of your syntax to be a Lispy syntax. I do want to emphasize 03:36.238 --> 00:03:44.664 that Julia is heavily inspired by Lisp, so I wouldn't be 03:36.238 --> 03:44.664 surprised if if something like this were possible. 03:49.309 --> 00:03:51.167 I have tried Julia Snail. NOTE Q: Have you tried the Julia Snail package for Emacs? It tries to be like SLY/SLIME for Common Lisp. 00:03:51.168 --> 00:03:51.070 So the next question is about Julia 03:51.270 --> 03:52.712 Snail. I found Julia REPL to be a little bit easier to set up 03:53.312 --> 03:58.436 and use. So I just settled on that. I should maybe revisit 04:00.918 --> 04:03.480 that. In particular, I use the Julia REPL with the vterm 04:03.720 --> 04:11.406 backend, which essentially makes a companion REPL to my 04:03.720 --> 04:11.406 scripts. And that works for me. I do think that the tooling 04:15.638 --> 04:16.518 uh, could be improved. I think there is definitely much room 04:17.399 --> 04:22.040 and I would like to see improvement in that area. Um, and, uh, NOTE Q: Is there a data inspector for a Julia REPL available that you can use in Emacs? 04:22.940 --> 04:28.322 so we have data inspector for Julia REPL. 04:32.043 --> 04:34.784 I don't think so. I don't, is there any data inspector 04:34.804 --> 04:39.826 in for, for the Julia REPL that we can use in Emacs? 04:43.223 --> 00:04:43.489 I'm not sure. I don't think so. 00:04:44.840 --> 00:04:47.839 I think the way I look at data is 00:04:47.840 --> 00:04:50.519 essentially ignoring Emacs when encoded. It's just using the 00:04:50.520 --> 00:04:54.759 REPL. And again, with Julia REPL. So I'm not aware of any 00:04:54.760 --> 00:04:57.720 specialized tool And again, maybe this is, again, a good 04:58.652 --> 05:05.595 moment to emphasize that tooling, the Julia community 04:58.652 --> 05:05.595 clusters around VS Code. And there is tools like the, pretty 05:06.315 --> 05:11.578 much all the work with VS Code, unfortunately. And while 05:12.578 --> 05:21.242 there's a very, very decent Julia mode and Julia repo mode 05:12.578 --> 05:21.242 and Julia snail, there's definitely, definitely room for 05:12.578 --> 05:21.242 improvement. NOTE Q: Have you tried literate programming Julia (using Org babel or some other means) in Emacs? 05:24.443 --> 05:28.145 Next, we have a question about literate programming in 05:24.443 --> 05:28.145 Julia. I haven't done much of it with Org Babel or 05:29.505 --> 05:32.906 anything else. I haven't done much of it. I can say that Julia 05:35.827 --> 05:46.070 has developed a new iteration of notebooks called Pluto. 05:46.090 --> 05:48.471 Here I'm thinking about Jupyter notebooks. The Pluto 05:51.021 --> 06:02.988 notebooks for Julia try to remove a bunch of the pain points 05:51.021 --> 06:02.988 that Jupyter notebooks have, meaning you cannot easily 05:51.021 --> 06:02.988 commit them to Git or things like this. 06:06.450 --> 06:09.152 I haven't used them, but I know some people are very fond of 06:06.450 --> 06:09.152 them. And so I think that that's what some of the Julia 06:09.872 --> 06:15.195 community would use for notebooks. And I think they can 06:15.315 --> 06:19.298 interact with Emacs with no problem. And that would be a form 06:20.974 --> 06:23.035 of later programming. But if you can do it in Python, you can 06:24.015 --> 06:27.696 do it in Julia. I think there is no reason. And actually, you 06:30.617 --> 06:38.719 can take advantage of all this just-in-time or 06:30.617 --> 06:38.719 just-out-of-time compilation by keeping the same 06:30.617 --> 06:38.719 session. So I think it will be definitely a nice use case. So 06:44.681 --> 06:47.222 these are the questions that I see here. I'm going to scroll 06:48.561 --> 06:54.486 through the comments and see if there's something that I 06:48.561 --> 06:54.486 should say about comments. I'm excited people want to learn 06:56.228 --> 06:57.669 Julia. I have to say that if I want to do GPU computing 06:58.990 --> 07:06.757 nowadays, I find it much easier to do it with Julia than with 06:58.990 --> 07:06.757 CUDA. So I encourage people to look into that. And I do, 07:11.758 --> 07:26.807 again, I would like to share what makes me excited about 07:11.758 --> 07:26.807 Emacs, about this being open, being collaborative, being 07:11.758 --> 07:26.807 respectable with documentation is something that I find in 07:11.758 --> 07:26.807 Julia. So I think people that are excited about the same 07:27.367 --> 07:35.192 features will find a little bit of joy in working with Julia. 07:38.214 --> 07:39.675 I think I addressed what I have here. I don't know if there's 07:40.189 --> 07:43.532 anything else that I should add. 07:51.718 --> 07:54.000 It took me a minute to unmute there. 00:07:54.040 --> 00:07:58.399 No, I think that was awesome. And thank you so much. 00:07:58.400 --> 00:08:00.399 I guess I thought it would 00:08:00.400 --> 00:08:06.559 collapse that shared area on BBB, my mistake, on the stream, 00:08:06.560 --> 00:08:12.399 or I would have left it open. But in any case, no, I thought 00:08:12.400 --> 00:08:15.079 that was great. You did a great job of responding to all the 00:08:15.080 --> 00:08:17.879 questions and comments. And thank you again so much for your 00:08:17.880 --> 00:08:20.920 talk and getting us all excited to learn Julia. Thank you. 08:24.094 --> 08:25.275 Enjoy EmacsConf. And again, thanks so much for attending, 08:25.335 --> 08:30.220 for being EmacsConf. Thank you.