[Speaker 0]: 2 seconds. And I think we are live.
Hi Yuchen, how are you doing?
[Speaker 1]: I'm gonna just walk off.
I'm not sure if I... Yeah,
I mean, brain not working well at this
moment. How about you?
[Speaker 2]: Well, mine is about to get fried because
EmacsConf is a very taxing process and I can
tell you we could have a race to know who's
more more tired right now between you and
myself but I guess we'll find out at the end
[Speaker 1]: All right, sounds good.
[Speaker 2]: of the Q&A. And thank you for...
How late or how early I should say is it for
you right now? It should be like 6am or
[Speaker 1]: Thanks. It's 7.45 but I normally get up at
like 8.30 or something.
[Speaker 2]: something? Right, okay.
Well, anyway, thank you for the sacrifice
just to answer some of the questions.
All right, so I'll be displaying the
questions. I'll be, let me just maximize this
on the stream so that people can read
everything on my screen.
So what I'm going to do,
Yuchen, as usual, I'm going to start reading
the questions on the pad.
I'm going to ask Sasha to open the Q&A.
Yes, it's already open.
Cool. So if you want to join us,
people, Feel free to click on the link on the
talk or on IRC to join us on BBB and to ask
your questions. Otherwise just leave them on
the pad. Alright, Yuchen,
starting with the first question.
I like the idea of using org-mode to display
data from the web. Are there many different
packages that do not, I assume.
I'm new to Emacs, so maybe this is obvious to
everyone else.
[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I think so. I mean...
[Speaker 2]: Yeah, I think it's a little complicated to
specify what is it to display data from the
web. Just reading it like this,
I'm reminded of Adam, Arthur Pappa,
I mean, Code All Capture Web,
which technically captures the web and allows
you to embed it in the page,
but is it really displaying data from the
web? Are we implying live transmission?
Do you see what I'm talking about?
[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I suspect the question is asking,
like, having Emacs as a client that's sort of
getting data from the web and then displays
in Emacs, like using API or using web script.
So yeah, like the hreader package or a few
packages mentioned in my talk.
Yeah, that's a good question.
I mean, I really don't know how many.
So from my experience,
maybe I use like 10, less than 10 packages
that do these things. And among these
packages, maybe it's half of them are org,
[Speaker 2]: So you mean half of them are org-based?
Is that what you said?
[Speaker 1]: half of them don't. Yeah,
but that's just based on the packages I use.
I haven't done a survey about this.
[Speaker 2]: I think it's okay, you don't need to have all
the answers. I mean, you already demonstrate
a lot of competence and you talk about all
the things you approach with your particular
setup, So you don't need to have all the
answers. Okay. All right,
moving on to the next question.
Have you tried EAF, i.e.
The Emacs application framework and its
browser? If yes, what is your opinion about
it?
[Speaker 1]: Oh, I haven't tried it.
I try to remember why I haven't tried it.
It has a browser. I assume the browser
executes JavaScript by default.
I have to check. Emacs.daf
slash daf browser.
[Speaker 2]: It's also OK if you want to have a look later
and you know whenever you want to report to
the pad you know you write a little blurb
[Speaker 1]: Yeah sure yeah so yeah I know about EAF but I
haven't tried it.
[Speaker 2]: about it. Okay well that's already an answer
that's cool. We're gonna move on to a
question that is a little bit off topic,
but I've also been interested about your
nickname on IRC. This is not really relevant
to the talk, quoting the question,
but I'm curious about your nickname.
You have some connection to Norway.
Your nick indicates an interest in the
architectural style inspired by the
decoration on Viking ships that was popular
in the early 20th century because
Dragonsteel, I assume in Norwegian,
is Dragon style. Are you familiar with this?
[Speaker 1]: Yeah, it's just my favorite architecture
style, I think. I mean,
I lived in Sweden for like 2,
1 half years and yeah I went to Norway once
and I saw like this church in Lofoten Island,
[Speaker 0]: was amazing. In Luton Island,
on Luton Island. Right.
[Speaker 1]: on Lofoten Island. Yeah it Yeah,
it was amazing. So, yeah,
that's exactly why I chose that as my
nickname, because it's my favorite
architecture style.
[Speaker 2]: Okay, well, that was a very astute remark by
the viewers, so I hope you feel validated in
[Speaker 0]: assumptions. Moving on
[Speaker 2]: your to another question.
Yuchen, do you have any thoughts about Nixed,
about its name, its approach,
its relevance? About Nixed,
the browser, N-Y-X-T. Oh,
Nixed.
[Speaker 1]: About what? Yeah, I have tried it.
Well, I mean, it's not Emacs.
It's kind of similar. I think it tries to do
something similar to Emacs,
but The problem with Nix is that very early
on I encountered an issue with keybinding.
So the first thing I want to do is to make
all its keybindings emax-y.
So that's obviously...
So what was the problem?
So yeah, I couldn't even do that.
I thought, I was expecting that it could...
There shouldn't be any issues with setting up
whatever key binding you want.
So I, the, the issue was that when I tried to
do when I tried to bind Ctrl S Ctrl R to the
prompt going up and down,
so I use I was I complete and I'm used to
like the control S and control R to go,
to cycle through the selections.
And so I want it the same in next in its
prompt like when, for example,
typing a URL and get completion from history.
But it has a conflict with the...
And also, I try to bind the hint.
So when I want to follow a link,
So I press a hint key and then like all these
links are highlighted with like little
letters that I can like choose which 1 I want
which link I want to follow.
So I try to bind that 1 to J sort of like
Control C, Control J, or mode.
But apparently there's a conflict here.
So when I do both these prompt mode binding
and the document mode binding,
Yeah, the prompt no longer works.
And I reported the bug to Nixt.
And yeah, and there was response but there
are so many bugs there,
and I don't think that bug is very high
priority. So yeah, I basically stopped trying
that because key mining is very important to
[Speaker 2]: Right, but, sorry, please finish.
[Speaker 1]: me. Yeah, so I mean, yeah,
without key bindings I can't like,
I won't. So, okay, I feel this is a very
basic functionality. I'm kind of reluctant to
[Speaker 2]: Without key bindings, they are.
[Speaker 1]: continue trying what These are pieces.
[Speaker 2]: It reminds me of 2 points.
So yesterday with Stefan we were talking
about sane defaults and when he was sleeping
today we talked about it again with a
speaker. We did the mentor talk.
Feel free to re-watch it afterwards.
But it's funny how, you know,
regardless of how big the package actually
is, they always provide some kind of sane
default and with Nixed,
obviously, it's built with a Vim mentality
and modality of key bindings.
And for us, we are more used to the Emacs way
of doing things. It's a complete blocker.
No matter how great the pieces of
functionality behind Nixed are,
just the fact that UX-wise we cannot get into
it or we cannot have it behave nicely with
what we do. It's a massive block that is
preventing appropriation of such tools.
So it might seem very basic to bounce a
package at the level of key bindings but
that's what we all do.
[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I totally agree.
[Speaker 2]: Right, if I can just interrupt,
we have about 2 more minutes of questions and
I see people are writing more questions.
Did you want to add something,
Yucheng? On what we're saying?
[Speaker 1]: No, no, no, Let's continue.
[Speaker 2]: had plenty of time. Okay,
I'm going to ask you to be quick about this
1. I'm going to read the question,
which is slightly long,
and you're going to have about 30 seconds to
answer it. Do you feel capable of this?
[Speaker 1]: I thought we Yeah, let's try it.
[Speaker 2]: Let's try it. At least try it.
Okay, so quoting, I find the JavaScript trap
almost impossible to avoid since I like to
buy used stuff online and use my online bank.
How do you deal with a JavaScript trap?
I use NoScript and compromise on a few things
I really feel I cannot live without.
EWW is nice for a lot of things,
especially with R for less noise,
but I need Firefox for those GS and trapped
pages. So do you have a quick answer to this?
[Speaker 1]: Yeah, I don't have a good answer,
but I have a quick answer.
So I use VPN and like a more,
what do you call it, move out the Swedish VPN
browser, move out browser.
Yeah, so I unfortunately I have to use
JavaScript in these cases as well,
but I try to minimize the use of these
things.
[Speaker 2]: How long do you think it will take for us to
save the world with Emacs,
or save the web at least?
5 years, 10 years, maybe a little less than
this?
[Speaker 1]: Well I think it's, unfortunately it's
probably independent of Emacs,
like it will only be saved when,
like it's saved on like the normal,
the more popular browsers like Firefox.
I have no clue how long it will take for,
I don't know, for example,
Tala to pick up so that you can buy things
without running JavaScript.
[Speaker 2]: Right. Well, I guess we'll have to cross our
fingers then for Firefox to save the world.
All right Yuchen, we're about out of time,
we're moving on to the next talk in 20
seconds. Thank you so much for your
presentation and for waking up early and
answering the question,
and I can tell you, you were very alert and
definitely more energetic than I was.
All right, see you later.
[Speaker 1]: Thank you. See you.
[Speaker 2]: Bye. And we go to the next talk right now.
[Speaker 0]: You are currently
you