WEBVTT 00:00:00.480 --> 00:00:00.980 [Speaker 0]: Dictation. 00:00:06.020 --> 00:00:06.520 [Speaker 1]: Right. All right I think we are live now. 00:00:08.980 --> 00:00:09.179 The stream is here. So folks if you would 00:00:11.320 --> 00:00:11.820 please post your questions on the pad and 00:00:13.259 --> 00:00:13.759 we'll take them up here. 00:00:20.500 --> 00:00:21.000 [Speaker 0]: Boy so I don't have myself set up with the 00:00:25.140 --> 00:00:25.279 [Speaker 1]: Oh, I can read the questions to you if you 00:00:26.939 --> 00:00:27.439 [Speaker 0]: pad. That would be fantastic. 00:00:27.900 --> 00:00:28.400 Thank you. 00:00:28.779 --> 00:00:29.220 [Speaker 1]: would prefer that. Sure. 00:00:29.220 --> 00:00:29.720 Thanks. 00:00:58.380 --> 00:00:58.500 [Speaker 0]: Well, for the purpose of breaking the ice a 00:01:01.400 --> 00:01:01.620 little bit, I can provide a live 00:01:03.840 --> 00:01:04.340 demonstration of the use of this Voice In 00:01:06.300 --> 00:01:06.800 plugin for Google Chrome. 00:01:11.080 --> 00:01:11.580 So I have, let's see, say new sentence. 00:01:20.400 --> 00:01:20.900 I'm on a website that is called 750 words. 00:01:25.080 --> 00:01:25.520 It provides a text area where without any 00:01:30.580 --> 00:01:30.760 other distracting icons for the purpose of 00:01:34.040 --> 00:01:34.200 writing and I'm using it for the purpose of 00:01:38.680 --> 00:01:38.960 capturing my words that I'm dictating and I 00:01:42.979 --> 00:01:43.420 have enabled the Voice In plugin by hitting 00:01:48.280 --> 00:01:48.780 the option L command. New sentence. 00:01:54.479 --> 00:01:54.960 So it interpreted that command new sentence 00:01:56.260 --> 00:01:56.760 even though I didn't pronounce it correctly, 00:01:59.440 --> 00:01:59.820 which is a pretty good demonstration of its 00:02:00.920 --> 00:02:01.420 accuracy. New sentence. 00:02:06.420 --> 00:02:06.820 Oops, that didn't work. 00:02:15.040 --> 00:02:15.200 Undo. New sentence. So new sentence is a 00:02:16.040 --> 00:02:16.540 combination of 2 commands, 00:02:23.820 --> 00:02:24.080 period and new line. So I've found it more 00:02:25.840 --> 00:02:26.260 convenient just to say new sentence than 00:02:28.440 --> 00:02:28.940 having to say period and new line. 00:02:33.900 --> 00:02:34.220 You can see that it's able to keep up with 00:02:41.840 --> 00:02:42.340 most of my speech, and it has to interpret 00:02:44.760 --> 00:02:45.140 the sounds that I'm making and convert those 00:02:47.600 --> 00:02:47.860 into words, so there's always going to be a 00:02:59.580 --> 00:03:00.080 lag. New sentence. But I've found that I can 00:03:02.720 --> 00:03:03.220 generate about 2,000, up to 2,000 00:03:07.040 --> 00:03:07.540 words an hour as I gather my thoughts and 00:03:10.960 --> 00:03:11.460 talk in my rather slow fashion of speaking. 00:03:15.860 --> 00:03:16.220 New sentence, if you're a really fast 00:03:18.560 --> 00:03:19.060 speaker, it might have trouble keeping up. 00:03:30.860 --> 00:03:31.080 New sentence. I like to write When I'm using 00:03:34.360 --> 00:03:34.860 the keyboard with 1 sentence per line, 00:03:38.520 --> 00:03:39.020 so that when I copy my text and paste it into 00:03:43.680 --> 00:03:43.840 Emacs, for example, I can resort the 00:03:47.300 --> 00:03:47.600 sentences very easily by just selecting 1 00:03:50.600 --> 00:03:51.100 line at a time. I like to keep the sentences 00:03:53.480 --> 00:03:53.980 unwrapped in that fashion because that 00:03:56.320 --> 00:03:56.820 greatly eases the rewriting phase. 00:04:01.120 --> 00:04:01.580 And I'm almost have sort of a hybrid reverse 00:04:03.160 --> 00:04:03.660 outlining approach by doing that. 00:04:14.340 --> 00:04:14.680 New sentence. Looks like I have gotten ahead 00:04:18.079 --> 00:04:18.579 of it a bit and it has not kept up. 00:04:21.560 --> 00:04:22.060 But generally, it does keep up pretty well. 00:04:26.180 --> 00:04:26.680 [Speaker 1]: Nice. Thanks for the demo. 00:04:30.380 --> 00:04:30.880 Let's see. I think we have. 00:04:31.480 --> 00:04:31.980 Yeah, sorry. 00:04:33.520 --> 00:04:34.020 [Speaker 0]: You're welcome. Go ahead. 00:04:42.380 --> 00:04:42.880 You can see that it has this EN means English 00:04:46.880 --> 00:04:47.180 and then dash US. There's actually about 40 00:04:48.000 --> 00:04:48.500 languages that it supports, 00:04:52.280 --> 00:04:52.720 including several variants of German and 00:04:54.640 --> 00:04:55.140 about a dozen English dialects. 00:05:05.200 --> 00:05:05.380 [Speaker 1]: Nice. Let's see, I think we have some 00:05:06.860 --> 00:05:07.360 comments and questions trickling in. 00:05:11.160 --> 00:05:11.320 So someone is saying that there is a text to 00:05:14.700 --> 00:05:15.200 command application or utility called Clipia, 00:05:19.395 --> 00:05:19.472 C-L-I-P-I-A, that they think is awesome. 00:05:19.860 --> 00:05:20.360 Clipia that they think is awesome. 00:05:24.960 --> 00:05:25.460 And someone else is also saying that Sox, 00:05:27.180 --> 00:05:27.680 S-O-X is another good alternative. 00:05:34.560 --> 00:05:34.920 [Speaker 0]: I've not explored those yet. 00:05:36.740 --> 00:05:37.240 So thank you very much for the suggestions. 00:05:42.700 --> 00:05:43.000 [Speaker 1]: So I'll... I just dropped a link to the pad 00:05:45.360 --> 00:05:45.520 page here in the chat and on the big blue 00:05:47.320 --> 00:05:47.820 button if you'd like to open that up as well. 00:05:50.280 --> 00:05:50.460 But I'll continue reading the comments and 00:05:54.340 --> 00:05:54.640 questions. So the first question, 00:05:56.420 --> 00:05:56.920 I guess, is that could you comment on how 00:06:01.800 --> 00:06:02.080 speaking versus typing affects your logic or 00:06:03.260 --> 00:06:03.760 the content, quote unquote, 00:06:05.020 --> 00:06:05.520 that you write? 00:06:10.320 --> 00:06:10.820 [Speaker 0]: I find that this is like the difference 00:06:15.600 --> 00:06:16.080 between writing your thoughts down on a blank 00:06:18.640 --> 00:06:19.140 piece of printer paper versus paper bound 00:06:21.100 --> 00:06:21.600 with a leather notebook. 00:06:24.300 --> 00:06:24.800 I don't think there's any real difference. 00:06:27.980 --> 00:06:28.380 I know that some people believe there is a 00:06:29.540 --> 00:06:30.040 solid certain difference, 00:06:32.580 --> 00:06:32.980 But this is for the purpose, 00:06:34.540 --> 00:06:35.040 I'm using this for the purpose of generating 00:06:40.340 --> 00:06:40.720 the first draft because my skills with using 00:06:44.160 --> 00:06:44.440 my voice to edit my text is still not very 00:06:46.240 --> 00:06:46.740 well developed. I'm still more efficient 00:06:49.120 --> 00:06:49.620 using the keyboard for that stage. 00:06:52.200 --> 00:06:52.700 So the hardest part about writing generally 00:06:55.160 --> 00:06:55.660 is getting the first crappy draft written. 00:07:00.040 --> 00:07:00.160 And so I have found that dictation is 00:07:01.480 --> 00:07:01.980 perfectly fine for that phase. 00:07:07.060 --> 00:07:07.200 And I find it actually very conducive for 00:07:09.480 --> 00:07:09.980 just getting the text out. 00:07:13.500 --> 00:07:13.680 The biggest problem that most of us have is 00:07:15.080 --> 00:07:15.580 applying our internal editor. 00:07:20.280 --> 00:07:20.460 And that inhibits us from generating words in 00:07:21.600 --> 00:07:22.100 a free-flowing fashion. 00:07:26.000 --> 00:07:26.500 So I generally do my generative writing. 00:07:28.740 --> 00:07:28.940 So actually I divide my writing into 2 00:07:30.240 --> 00:07:30.740 categories, generative writing, 00:07:32.320 --> 00:07:32.820 generating the first crappy draft, 00:07:35.920 --> 00:07:36.300 and then rewriting. Rewriting is probably 80, 00:07:38.520 --> 00:07:39.020 90% of writing where you go back and rework 00:07:40.600 --> 00:07:41.100 the order of the sentences, 00:07:43.840 --> 00:07:43.980 order of paragraphs, the order of words in a 00:07:44.700 --> 00:07:45.060 sentence and so forth. 00:07:47.540 --> 00:07:47.860 The really hard work. That's best done later 00:07:49.740 --> 00:07:50.240 in the day when I'm more awake. 00:07:52.880 --> 00:07:52.960 I do my general writing first thing in the 00:07:55.320 --> 00:07:55.820 morning when I feel horrible. 00:07:59.440 --> 00:07:59.940 I'm not very alert. That's when my internal 00:08:03.340 --> 00:08:03.700 editor is not very awake and I can get more 00:08:05.760 --> 00:08:06.260 words out, more words past that gatekeeper. 00:08:09.280 --> 00:08:09.480 And so I can do this sitting down, 00:08:10.640 --> 00:08:10.920 I can do this standing up, 00:08:12.800 --> 00:08:13.180 I can do this 20 feet away from my computer 00:08:15.440 --> 00:08:15.600 looking out the window to give my eyes a 00:08:19.540 --> 00:08:20.040 break. So I find it's actually very enjoyable 00:08:21.440 --> 00:08:21.940 to use it in this fashion. 00:08:29.640 --> 00:08:30.140 And the downside is that I wind up generating 00:08:32.720 --> 00:08:32.919 3 times as much text, and that makes for 3 00:08:35.140 --> 00:08:35.640 times as much work when it comes to rewriting 00:08:39.780 --> 00:08:39.940 the text. And that means I'm using the 00:08:45.040 --> 00:08:45.200 keyboard a lot later on in the day and I 00:08:47.720 --> 00:08:47.920 haven't made any progress on recovering from 00:08:49.760 --> 00:08:50.260 my own repetitive stress injury. 00:08:56.880 --> 00:08:57.240 I hope that I will add the use of voice 00:08:59.720 --> 00:09:00.220 commands, speech to commands, 00:09:02.800 --> 00:09:03.300 for editing the text in the future. 00:09:06.880 --> 00:09:07.040 And I'll eventually give my hands more of a 00:09:07.040 --> 00:09:07.540 break. 00:09:12.280 --> 00:09:12.600 [Speaker 1]: Right. Thanks. Yeah, that sounds like a nice 00:09:15.360 --> 00:09:15.640 flow of sort of being able to get your words 00:09:18.740 --> 00:09:18.940 out while your internal editor is still not 00:09:21.220 --> 00:09:21.720 inhibiting things. And then later in the day 00:09:25.320 --> 00:09:25.520 or days, get back to the actual rewriting and 00:09:25.520 --> 00:09:26.020 editing. 00:09:31.320 --> 00:09:31.720 [Speaker 0]: Cool. So this allows you to actually separate 00:09:33.640 --> 00:09:34.140 those 2 activities, not only by time. 00:09:36.840 --> 00:09:37.200 So many professional writers will spend 00:09:39.000 --> 00:09:39.140 several hours in the morning doing the 00:09:41.040 --> 00:09:41.120 generative part and then they'll spend the 00:09:41.920 --> 00:09:42.420 rest of the day rewriting. 00:09:46.000 --> 00:09:46.500 So they have separated those 2 activities 00:09:49.340 --> 00:09:49.540 temporally. What most people actually do is, 00:09:51.540 --> 00:09:51.700 you know, they do the generative part and 00:09:53.300 --> 00:09:53.560 then they write 1 sentence and they apply 00:09:55.460 --> 00:09:55.640 that internal editor right away because they 00:09:57.720 --> 00:09:58.220 want to write the first draft in a perfect, 00:10:02.400 --> 00:10:02.560 as a perfect version as the final draft And 00:10:03.840 --> 00:10:04.340 that slows them down dramatically. 00:10:08.160 --> 00:10:08.400 But this also allows you to separate these 2 00:10:10.320 --> 00:10:10.820 activities in terms of modality. 00:10:13.940 --> 00:10:14.120 You're going to do the generative writing by 00:10:16.560 --> 00:10:17.060 voice and the rewriting by keyboard. 00:10:22.200 --> 00:10:22.480 So I think this is 1 way that many people can 00:10:26.040 --> 00:10:26.540 get into using speech to text in a productive 00:10:26.640 --> 00:10:27.140 way. 00:10:30.480 --> 00:10:30.980 [Speaker 1]: Nice. Yeah, that sounds great. 00:10:33.940 --> 00:10:34.200 Let's see. I think we have about 3 or 4 00:10:37.840 --> 00:10:37.960 minutes live. So I think we have time for at 00:10:38.560 --> 00:10:39.060 least another question. 00:10:41.920 --> 00:10:42.180 Have you tried the chat GPT voice chat 00:10:44.540 --> 00:10:44.760 interface? And if so, how has been your 00:10:47.020 --> 00:10:47.180 experience of it? As someone experienced with 00:10:48.640 --> 00:10:48.860 voice control, interested to hear your 00:10:51.940 --> 00:10:52.180 thoughts, performance relative to the free 00:10:52.960 --> 00:10:53.460 software tools in particular? 00:10:57.180 --> 00:10:57.380 [Speaker 0]: I don't have much experience with that 00:11:01.320 --> 00:11:01.500 particular software. I have used Whisper a 00:11:03.400 --> 00:11:03.900 little bit. And so that's related. 00:11:10.260 --> 00:11:10.460 And of course you have this problem of lag so 00:11:12.800 --> 00:11:13.300 I find that it's a whisper is good for 00:11:16.380 --> 00:11:16.560 spitting out a sentence you know maybe for a 00:11:20.160 --> 00:11:20.660 doc string in a programming file. 00:11:26.060 --> 00:11:26.260 But I find that it's very prone to 00:11:30.060 --> 00:11:30.300 hallucinations. And I find myself spending 00:11:32.720 --> 00:11:33.220 half my time deleting the hallucinations, 00:11:38.700 --> 00:11:38.860 I feel like the net gain is diminished as a 00:11:41.580 --> 00:11:41.720 result. There's not much of a net gain in 00:11:43.340 --> 00:11:43.820 terms of what I'm getting out of it. 00:11:45.800 --> 00:11:45.980 Whereas I really appreciate the high level of 00:11:48.780 --> 00:11:49.280 accuracy that I'm getting from voice-in. 00:11:53.400 --> 00:11:53.900 I would use Talon Voice for dictation, 00:11:56.680 --> 00:11:57.180 but at this point, there's a significant 00:12:00.440 --> 00:12:00.740 difference between the level of accuracy of 00:12:02.040 --> 00:12:02.540 voice-in versus Talon voice. 00:12:06.260 --> 00:12:06.560 It's large enough of a difference that I'll 00:12:08.860 --> 00:12:09.020 probably use voice-in for a while until I can 00:12:12.700 --> 00:12:13.140 figure out how to get town voice to generate 00:12:15.080 --> 00:12:15.580 more accurate text. 00:12:25.400 --> 00:12:25.680 [Speaker 1]: Cool. Thank you. I think we have at least 00:12:26.580 --> 00:12:26.940 another 2 or 3 minutes. 00:12:29.100 --> 00:12:29.380 So if folks have any other questions Please 00:12:31.080 --> 00:12:31.400 feel free to post them on the pad and I'll 00:12:32.560 --> 00:12:33.060 check IRC now as well. 00:12:44.340 --> 00:12:44.840 Right, so I see 1 question on IRC asking, 00:12:47.080 --> 00:12:47.360 Are any of these voice command slash 00:12:49.600 --> 00:12:50.100 dictating dictation tools free Libre 00:12:52.260 --> 00:12:52.760 software? They cannot find that information 00:12:54.840 --> 00:12:55.080 Which I think is part of it. 00:12:55.320 --> 00:12:55.820 You just mentioned 00:12:57.280 --> 00:12:57.780 [Speaker 0]: the voice in software. 00:13:03.260 --> 00:13:03.760 There's It's a freemium so The answer is no 00:13:05.640 --> 00:13:06.140 To be able to add the commands, 00:13:09.000 --> 00:13:09.160 the custom commands, you have to pay $48 a 00:13:12.040 --> 00:13:12.540 year. The Talon Voice software is free. 00:13:20.080 --> 00:13:20.320 And the only limitation there is access to 00:13:23.560 --> 00:13:23.820 the language model. If you want to get the 00:13:26.720 --> 00:13:26.880 beta version, you need to subscribe to 00:13:30.820 --> 00:13:31.320 Patreon to help support the developer. 00:13:36.180 --> 00:13:36.460 And I found, I did do that and I really 00:13:37.400 --> 00:13:37.900 didn't find much of an improvement. 00:13:43.620 --> 00:13:43.780 So I really don't intend to do that in the 00:13:47.100 --> 00:13:47.600 future. But otherwise, 00:13:50.680 --> 00:13:51.180 Town Voice, everything is open and free, 00:13:54.380 --> 00:13:54.880 and the Slack community is incredibly 00:13:58.340 --> 00:13:58.820 welcoming. The parallels with the Emacs 00:14:00.060 --> 00:14:00.560 community are pretty striking. 00:14:09.520 --> 00:14:09.720 [Speaker 1]: Excellent, thank you. Okay, 00:14:11.800 --> 00:14:11.980 I think we have about another minute on the 00:14:13.780 --> 00:14:13.980 live stream, but I believe the big blue 00:14:16.560 --> 00:14:16.920 button room here is open and will be open, 00:14:19.860 --> 00:14:20.340 So if folks want to join, 00:14:21.840 --> 00:14:22.120 if Blaine maybe has a couple of extra 00:14:24.680 --> 00:14:24.840 minutes. Awesome. Yeah, 00:14:26.580 --> 00:14:26.760 then you're welcome to join and chat with 00:14:28.980 --> 00:14:29.480 Blaine and ask any further questions or just 00:14:30.060 --> 00:14:30.560 do general chatting. Chatting. 00:14:44.020 --> 00:14:44.380 [Speaker 0]: So I see a question. How good is Talon 00:14:53.040 --> 00:14:53.520 compared to Whisper? So with Talon, 00:14:55.380 --> 00:14:55.880 I find that the first part of the sentence 00:15:00.620 --> 00:15:00.820 will be fairly accurate and then when I'm 00:15:03.480 --> 00:15:03.980 doing dictation And then towards the end, 00:15:05.640 --> 00:15:06.140 the errors start to accumulate. 00:15:09.520 --> 00:15:09.720 So in general, I think it's error rate is 00:15:12.880 --> 00:15:13.100 about 5 words out of a hundred or so will be 00:15:17.560 --> 00:15:18.040 wrong. And whisper, Whisper is wonderful 00:15:21.000 --> 00:15:21.500 because it will insert punctuation for you. 00:15:26.120 --> 00:15:26.320 But I guess its errors are longer and that 00:15:28.740 --> 00:15:29.240 it'll hallucinate full sentences for you. 00:15:35.460 --> 00:15:35.960 So they both have significant error rates. 00:15:37.280 --> 00:15:37.780 They're just different kinds of errors. 00:15:42.340 --> 00:15:42.840 [Speaker 1]: Interesting. 00:15:49.000 --> 00:15:49.500 [Speaker 0]: Hopefully both will improve over time. 00:15:50.740 --> 00:15:51.240 Right. 00:16:04.620 --> 00:16:05.120 Let's see. There's a question. 00:16:09.060 --> 00:16:09.560 Are the green block the author for this talk? 00:16:13.380 --> 00:16:13.880 Not sure what that question means. 00:16:19.180 --> 00:16:19.300 [Speaker 1]: Well, there is a green block of text that's I 00:16:22.540 --> 00:16:23.040 think being generated from voice to text, 00:16:25.560 --> 00:16:25.680 speech to text. At the top of the pad, 00:16:26.500 --> 00:16:27.000 I think that's the question. 00:16:40.060 --> 00:16:40.280 [Speaker 0]: So I have this Voicens software operating on 00:16:43.080 --> 00:16:43.580 this GitHub, on this 750words.com 00:16:51.960 --> 00:16:52.120 site where I do my generative writing at the 00:16:57.340 --> 00:16:57.720 start of the day. And it just provides a text 00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:00.100 area that's free of distractions. 00:17:03.220 --> 00:17:03.480 And you can see the text that's being 00:17:08.440 --> 00:17:08.540 recorded as I talk. I haven't been saying the 00:17:12.440 --> 00:17:12.700 command new sentence, so there isn't any 00:17:15.980 --> 00:17:16.480 punctuation over our discourse. 00:17:24.380 --> 00:17:24.880 1 thing that I do at the start of the day is 00:17:27.440 --> 00:17:27.940 I like to write in LaTeX. 00:17:33.600 --> 00:17:34.100 Ultimately, that's how I store my writing. 00:17:37.500 --> 00:17:38.000 So new sentence, new sentence. 00:17:51.680 --> 00:17:52.180 See, insert start day. 00:17:58.960 --> 00:17:59.460 So This is an example of a chunk of LaTeX 00:18:02.620 --> 00:18:03.120 code. So I have some reflections on, 00:18:04.640 --> 00:18:04.920 you know, what did I wake up this morning? 00:18:08.000 --> 00:18:08.160 And how do I feel? I have reflections on the 00:18:10.680 --> 00:18:10.840 prior day in terms of what did I get done 00:18:12.240 --> 00:18:12.440 yesterday? Do I remember what I did 00:18:14.140 --> 00:18:14.640 yesterday? What happened last night? 00:18:16.940 --> 00:18:17.440 Focus of today. What's to be done today? 00:18:23.180 --> 00:18:23.680 And so on. So I actually, 00:18:24.840 --> 00:18:25.340 I think I have more down here. 00:18:31.420 --> 00:18:31.680 Then I've set up these lists so that I can 00:18:33.760 --> 00:18:34.260 expand them easily. If I say item, 00:18:40.720 --> 00:18:40.900 then the cursor shows up at the start of an 00:18:45.600 --> 00:18:46.100 item. And I have it coded so that that new 00:18:48.700 --> 00:18:49.200 phrase that I speak will start with a capital 00:18:52.480 --> 00:18:52.980 letter. As you can see, 00:18:54.520 --> 00:18:55.020 so capitalize the word and. 00:19:02.860 --> 00:19:03.360 So in spite of its rather limited command 00:19:06.000 --> 00:19:06.380 syntax, There's some, it's enough to get 00:19:08.000 --> 00:19:08.400 started and maybe in the future, 00:19:09.360 --> 00:19:09.860 they'll add more features. 00:19:14.540 --> 00:19:15.040 [Speaker 1]: Cool, that's neat. 00:19:21.440 --> 00:19:21.940 [Speaker 0]: So I think this is very helpful for, 00:19:28.840 --> 00:19:29.040 you know, doing things like expanding the 00:19:32.780 --> 00:19:32.980 names of people. So you can do set up 00:19:36.100 --> 00:19:36.600 commands like expand the name of a colleague 00:19:40.520 --> 00:19:40.800 to go from their first name to their full 00:19:42.900 --> 00:19:43.260 name with a proper spelling of their last 00:19:45.240 --> 00:19:45.360 name, which, you know, 00:19:47.420 --> 00:19:47.640 you can wind up spending a lot of time trying 00:19:53.400 --> 00:19:53.640 to look that up. And so this voice in with 00:19:57.560 --> 00:19:57.880 the custom commands enables you to store hard 00:19:59.540 --> 00:20:00.040 to remember information like that. 00:20:08.040 --> 00:20:08.540 [Speaker 1]: Great. I see another question. 00:20:11.140 --> 00:20:11.580 How good is Talon compared to Whisper? 00:20:13.140 --> 00:20:13.480 I think you might have answered that already, 00:20:14.380 --> 00:20:14.880 at least partially, but... 00:20:19.860 --> 00:20:20.080 [Speaker 0]: Right, yeah. I talked about how it seems that 00:20:22.580 --> 00:20:23.080 Whisperer will carry out hallucinations, 00:20:26.280 --> 00:20:26.780 so it will generate long tracks of error, 00:20:30.340 --> 00:20:30.580 whereas Talon will tend to generate more 00:20:31.960 --> 00:20:32.460 errors towards the ends of sentences, 00:20:36.820 --> 00:20:36.960 in my experience. And the errors are 00:20:37.960 --> 00:20:38.460 generally shorter in extent. 00:20:42.180 --> 00:20:42.680 It doesn't hallucinate for long tracks. 00:20:50.660 --> 00:20:51.040 [Speaker 1]: Great. Okay, I think that's all the questions 00:20:51.760 --> 00:20:52.260 that we have on the pad. 00:20:54.720 --> 00:20:55.020 If folks want to join here on Big Blue Button 00:20:56.680 --> 00:20:57.180 for a few minutes and chat with Blaine, 00:21:00.260 --> 00:21:00.480 that also works. Let's see, 00:21:02.080 --> 00:21:02.240 I'm probably going to have to drop in a few 00:21:03.900 --> 00:21:04.400 minutes to catch the next speaker. 00:21:07.860 --> 00:21:08.100 But many thanks, Blaine, 00:21:09.520 --> 00:21:09.900 for a great talk and for the interesting 00:21:11.180 --> 00:21:11.680 demos and the question and answer. 00:21:14.700 --> 00:21:15.200 [Speaker 0]: Thank you very much for hosting this. 00:21:16.640 --> 00:21:17.140 [Speaker 1]: I appreciate it. glad to have you. 00:21:25.680 --> 00:21:25.960 [Speaker 0]: Cheers, Yeah, this is really amazing to hold 00:21:28.740 --> 00:21:29.020 this conference with people from all around 00:21:34.660 --> 00:21:34.940 the world connected together through web 00:21:34.940 --> 00:21:35.440 browsers. 00:21:41.020 --> 00:21:41.260 [Speaker 1]: Yeah, it's very neat what technology can do 00:21:42.400 --> 00:21:42.900 if and when it's working correctly. 00:21:47.680 --> 00:21:47.860 [Speaker 0]: I know it can be a little frustrating at 00:21:48.760 --> 00:21:49.120 times, but when it's working, 00:21:54.740 --> 00:21:55.240 it's wonderful. Yep. NOTE Start of section to review 00:21:59.540 --> 00:21:59.700 [Speaker 2]: Good purpose of computers is all the 00:22:01.100 --> 00:22:01.600 computers run the same code, 00:22:03.460 --> 00:22:03.860 so that people, you know, 00:22:05.740 --> 00:22:06.240 a lot of people work on the same thing and 00:22:08.360 --> 00:22:08.860 build upon each other's works. 00:22:16.460 --> 00:22:16.960 For journaling I found 1 good compromise 00:22:18.204 --> 00:22:18.428 between editing and stream-of-thought 00:22:19.548 --> 00:22:19.772 journaling. 1 good compromise between editing 00:22:20.680 --> 00:22:21.180 and stream of thought journaling. 00:22:23.940 --> 00:22:24.120 1 good compromise between editing and being 00:22:26.980 --> 00:22:27.480 able to do it again and just kind of helps me 00:22:31.160 --> 00:22:31.320 do my thoughts even when I do it is when you 00:22:33.180 --> 00:22:33.340 do org mode and you have the bullets it kind 00:22:35.280 --> 00:22:35.680 of allows you to naturally chart your 00:22:38.800 --> 00:22:39.300 thoughts in a way that's really easy to edit 00:22:41.880 --> 00:22:42.380 reorder I saw you kind of did that with your 00:22:47.160 --> 00:22:47.280 mac la tech macro where you said item and it 00:22:48.680 --> 00:22:49.180 would put you down to the next item. 00:22:56.500 --> 00:22:57.000 Does... How much do you do stuff like that? 00:23:00.720 --> 00:23:01.000 How much do you do stuff like that where you 00:23:04.700 --> 00:23:05.200 use like org mode headings and then you 00:23:07.000 --> 00:23:07.200 reorder them because like I did that with 00:23:10.080 --> 00:23:10.460 also the K outline from HyperBolt package for 00:23:15.140 --> 00:23:15.420 the for Emacs org mode later on after the 00:23:21.880 --> 00:23:22.060 [Speaker 0]: stream. Yes. So I could actually set this up 00:23:26.800 --> 00:23:27.300 so I have a lot of snippets for Org Mode. 00:23:30.720 --> 00:23:31.160 I could have Org Mode version of my insert 00:23:34.600 --> 00:23:34.780 start day snippet and carry things out in org 00:23:39.920 --> 00:23:40.420 mode. So I use org mode from time to time. 00:23:43.480 --> 00:23:43.980 I often use it for the purpose of writing 00:23:47.780 --> 00:23:48.060 readme files for projects to outline the 00:23:48.700 --> 00:23:49.200 purpose of the project, 00:23:54.900 --> 00:23:55.320 and say for a director that contains a coding 00:24:01.620 --> 00:24:02.120 project. And I think this would, 00:24:07.300 --> 00:24:07.700 so the main limitation of VoiceIn is it only 00:24:10.600 --> 00:24:10.760 works in a web page and you have to have an 00:24:14.180 --> 00:24:14.640 Internet connection, whereas Talon voice is 00:24:17.220 --> 00:24:17.720 perfect for something like org mode in that 00:24:20.200 --> 00:24:20.460 you don't need an internet connection and it 00:24:22.940 --> 00:24:23.100 will operate anywhere that you can place a 00:24:24.840 --> 00:24:24.960 cursor. I haven't found a place where it 00:24:26.760 --> 00:24:27.260 doesn't work. It's amazing. 00:24:28.860 --> 00:24:29.360 So as you saw my talk, 00:24:35.400 --> 00:24:35.560 perhaps You can run it in a terminal or a 00:24:38.320 --> 00:24:38.760 remote computer. You can run it in a virtual 00:24:44.120 --> 00:24:44.380 [Speaker 2]: Oh yeah, it's definitely. 00:24:45.760 --> 00:24:46.260 [Speaker 0]: machine. If you can put your cursor there, 00:24:50.820 --> 00:24:51.320 it will work. And so as you might imagine, 00:24:52.720 --> 00:24:53.220 if you use bash aliases, 00:24:55.920 --> 00:24:56.200 I've worked for, 1 of the first things I did 00:25:00.720 --> 00:25:00.920 was map Talend commands to bash aliases so 00:25:02.800 --> 00:25:03.300 that I can do all kinds of crazy things 00:25:04.200 --> 00:25:04.700 inside of the terminal. 00:25:12.040 --> 00:25:12.260 And there are, you know, 00:25:15.260 --> 00:25:15.660 there's some support already for using Talon 00:25:20.280 --> 00:25:20.780 in Emacs. There's some Emacs functionality 00:25:21.960 --> 00:25:22.460 that's built into Talon. 00:25:25.160 --> 00:25:25.660 So when you are in Emacs, 00:25:27.100 --> 00:25:27.600 there's some features that are automatically 00:25:30.520 --> 00:25:31.020 available. And then others have developed or 00:25:32.320 --> 00:25:32.820 are developing packages, 00:25:34.920 --> 00:25:35.080 which I don't think are available yet in 00:25:40.240 --> 00:25:40.680 ELPA. There's 1 that does the font locking or 00:25:42.780 --> 00:25:43.280 syntax highlighting of Talon files, 00:25:46.240 --> 00:25:46.720 and another that adds some additional 00:25:50.380 --> 00:25:50.880 functionality that I'm regrettably not yet 00:25:51.440 --> 00:25:51.940 familiar with. 00:25:55.680 --> 00:25:55.940 [Speaker 2]: Well, as an example with like how the 00:25:56.760 --> 00:25:57.100 sharding of the thoughts, 00:25:59.800 --> 00:26:00.140 like let's say, oh, how has my day went? 00:26:01.980 --> 00:26:03.080 It's went good for reasons 123, 00:26:04.860 --> 00:26:05.740 and bad for reasons ABC. 00:26:07.828 --> 00:26:07.872 And then later on, I might think, 00:26:08.460 --> 00:26:08.860 oh, there's an, I also, 00:26:10.520 --> 00:26:11.780 my day went good for reasons 456, 00:26:14.540 --> 00:26:14.880 then you, I can, then you jump up. 00:26:18.520 --> 00:26:18.820 And so the, like I found like, 00:26:19.760 --> 00:26:20.260 yeah, the org mode subheadings, 00:26:21.980 --> 00:26:22.480 because you're able to jump around, 00:26:25.040 --> 00:26:25.540 easily reorder them after the fact, 00:26:32.520 --> 00:26:32.860 the very streamlined approach to the stream 00:26:33.620 --> 00:26:34.120 of thought and the editing. 00:26:38.800 --> 00:26:39.300 [Speaker 0]: That's right, extremely powerful. 00:26:41.200 --> 00:26:41.500 [Speaker 2]: And even with the stream of thought, 00:26:44.060 --> 00:26:44.480 just because like, even when you're editing 00:26:45.200 --> 00:26:45.380 that in real time, like, 00:26:47.320 --> 00:26:47.800 oh, wait a minute, I thought of another 00:26:48.960 --> 00:26:49.200 reason that my day went good, 00:26:50.640 --> 00:26:50.820 even though I was talking about how it was 00:26:52.760 --> 00:26:53.260 going bad now. So you jump up. 00:26:55.680 --> 00:26:56.180 And then you do that. And then you have it. 00:26:59.540 --> 00:27:00.040 You easily summarize your thoughts and 00:27:00.060 --> 00:27:00.560 whatnot. 00:27:07.200 --> 00:27:07.600 [Speaker 0]: That's right. And I think org mode is really 00:27:11.680 --> 00:27:12.180 ideal for that kind of interact. 00:27:15.240 --> 00:27:15.480 So yeah, I see your point in terms of that 00:27:18.760 --> 00:27:19.260 sort of a blend of generative writing and 00:27:23.440 --> 00:27:23.940 editing. And it's also kind of parallel to 00:27:27.240 --> 00:27:27.660 mind mapping. I use this mind mapping 00:27:32.660 --> 00:27:33.160 software called iThoughtsX where I'll 00:27:36.760 --> 00:27:37.260 generate all these children items, 00:27:40.040 --> 00:27:40.540 and then I'll drag them around and resort 00:27:46.680 --> 00:27:47.180 them. And they can have children of their own 00:27:48.940 --> 00:27:49.400 and grandchildren and so on, 00:27:50.800 --> 00:27:51.300 in terms of the levels of the nodes. 00:27:54.920 --> 00:27:55.240 And it's pretty much the same sort of thing 00:27:57.560 --> 00:27:57.960 with a nested hierarchy that you can have 00:28:02.660 --> 00:28:03.040 with org mode. I think having several 00:28:09.900 --> 00:28:10.120 alternate modes or modalities of playing with 00:28:13.100 --> 00:28:13.300 thoughts is useful. So sometimes I'll hit a 00:28:17.180 --> 00:28:17.680 wall and we're just not really generating 00:28:21.260 --> 00:28:21.760 anything in a text mode. 00:28:25.000 --> 00:28:25.500 But if I switch to using the mind mapping, 00:28:30.040 --> 00:28:30.420 just seeing it arranged with the connecting 00:28:34.920 --> 00:28:35.280 lines plays on a different part of the brain, 00:28:37.640 --> 00:28:38.140 I think, and it can be incredibly 00:28:40.600 --> 00:28:40.800 stimulatory. It can stimulate a lot of new 00:28:43.480 --> 00:28:43.780 [Speaker 2]: That's something that I haven't messed around 00:28:45.400 --> 00:28:45.900 too much with is the mind mapping software, 00:28:45.980 --> 00:28:46.480 but... 00:28:51.600 --> 00:28:51.760 [Speaker 0]: thoughts. Because the closest thing that we 00:28:56.400 --> 00:28:56.600 have to it in Emacs is Orgrimm in the in 00:29:00.860 --> 00:29:01.360 terms of like the 3D visualization of with 00:29:03.720 --> 00:29:04.220 Orgrimm GUI or 00:29:10.120 --> 00:29:10.620 [Speaker 2]: UI. As well as being able to generate SVG 00:29:12.800 --> 00:29:13.100 diagrams and stuff like that, 00:29:16.980 --> 00:29:17.260 I think those 2 things would allow you stuff 00:29:20.240 --> 00:29:20.740 like Orgrimm or denote And then the diagrams 00:29:23.160 --> 00:29:23.300 would be the good ways of doing that in 00:29:25.200 --> 00:29:25.600 Emacs, but they don't have the mind map 00:29:27.160 --> 00:29:27.660 programs as well. 00:29:30.140 --> 00:29:30.640 [Speaker 0]: They're not as well developed. 00:29:32.740 --> 00:29:33.240 There are a couple mind mapping packages, 00:29:37.200 --> 00:29:37.700 but they're not as advanced. 00:29:41.920 --> 00:29:42.180 [Speaker 2]: The best ones were JavaScript web page that 00:29:43.840 --> 00:29:44.340 it that Emacs interacted with. 00:29:46.180 --> 00:29:46.680 Very well. And so they kind of, 00:29:49.120 --> 00:29:49.620 you know, worked around and had a little. 00:29:51.620 --> 00:29:51.820 Integration with the 2. 00:29:53.420 --> 00:29:53.920 So when you be jumping around your. 00:29:56.200 --> 00:29:56.380 When you'd be clicking on the web page it 00:29:59.300 --> 00:29:59.480 would be pointing you to different places and 00:30:07.060 --> 00:30:07.400 buffers okay like those are those the There's 00:30:11.480 --> 00:30:11.680 an like org-roam node program where it kind 00:30:13.360 --> 00:30:13.860 of shows the looks like a mind map. 00:30:17.820 --> 00:30:18.040 You can click and drag them a little bit, 00:30:18.680 --> 00:30:19.180 so it's a little interactive. 00:30:27.980 --> 00:30:28.480 [Speaker 0]: Yeah, I'm not familiar with that. 00:30:30.160 --> 00:30:30.660 I'll have to look into that. 00:30:32.240 --> 00:30:32.740 That sounds very interesting. 00:30:36.820 --> 00:30:37.200 [Speaker 2]: I found that I didn't know better, 00:30:38.560 --> 00:30:39.060 though, than Org-ROM, so it doesn't. 00:30:43.320 --> 00:30:43.820 [Speaker 0]: Why is that? 00:30:47.080 --> 00:30:47.580 [Speaker 2]: Well, 1 of the things I'm, 00:30:51.600 --> 00:30:51.760 I want to be able to, I don't like the 00:30:53.200 --> 00:30:53.700 feeling of being trapped inside org-mode 00:30:56.040 --> 00:30:56.540 documents. Like I want to be able to write, 00:30:58.940 --> 00:30:59.060 even though I don't really use Markdown and I 00:31:00.800 --> 00:31:01.020 like org-mode better than that. 00:31:02.720 --> 00:31:03.220 Like for instance, I also use the Koutline 00:31:04.280 --> 00:31:04.780 from the Hyperbole package. 00:31:08.160 --> 00:31:08.360 That's what my I got a talk on the stream of 00:31:12.620 --> 00:31:12.700 thought journaling for with Koutline and I 00:31:14.060 --> 00:31:14.160 was like, I just don't like the feeling of 00:31:18.480 --> 00:31:18.700 being tracked in 1 document and denote has 00:31:21.300 --> 00:31:21.800 the ability to it renames the file so you get 00:31:26.020 --> 00:31:26.520 keywords in like a PDF file so you can take 00:31:28.100 --> 00:31:28.380 so you can link to that with your notes 00:31:30.540 --> 00:31:30.700 without it all disappearing because it's not 00:31:36.340 --> 00:31:36.440 an org mode document. Plus the ability of 00:31:38.520 --> 00:31:38.940 having it run on multiple computers or with 00:31:42.660 --> 00:31:43.160 multiple people, the database kind of gets 00:31:46.480 --> 00:31:46.720 screwed up when you try running it under sync 00:31:50.500 --> 00:31:51.000 thing. Sync. More fragile. 00:31:56.000 --> 00:31:56.500 [Speaker 0]: Very interesting. Yeah. 00:32:03.260 --> 00:32:03.680 How far are you? So are you a regular 00:32:06.480 --> 00:32:06.980 practitioner of the Zettelkasten approach? 00:32:12.180 --> 00:32:12.680 [Speaker 2]: Trying to be. Incrementally improving it. 00:32:16.780 --> 00:32:16.980 I partly work too much like testing out the 00:32:20.760 --> 00:32:21.000 org-roam versus the notes to use it too much. 00:32:23.300 --> 00:32:23.500 So part of it is I just tweak with it too 00:32:24.800 --> 00:32:25.300 much before using it and then. 00:32:28.740 --> 00:32:29.240 [Speaker 0]: Oh, it's so fun to tweak it. 00:32:32.580 --> 00:32:32.840 [Speaker 2]: I think mostly it's as I have these tools, 00:32:33.640 --> 00:32:34.140 I know where they are. 00:32:35.760 --> 00:32:35.980 So whenever I do need them, 00:32:37.680 --> 00:32:38.180 I can use them, even though I don't always 00:32:38.440 --> 00:32:38.940 use them. 00:32:43.680 --> 00:32:43.940 [Speaker 0]: So I have about a thousand notes in my org 00:32:47.720 --> 00:32:48.040 room. Zettelkasten. I've actually, 00:32:50.140 --> 00:32:50.320 it's kind of cool that you can export it and 00:32:51.460 --> 00:32:51.960 move it into other programs. 00:32:56.320 --> 00:32:56.520 I have moved it to Obsidian and played with 00:32:57.720 --> 00:32:58.180 it in Obsidian for a while, 00:32:59.820 --> 00:33:00.320 maybe added to it in Obsidian, 00:33:01.480 --> 00:33:01.980 moved it back to Orgrim. 00:33:07.080 --> 00:33:07.580 But I'm not convinced. 00:33:10.680 --> 00:33:11.180 I mean, that I think that Nicholas Luhmann 00:33:13.360 --> 00:33:13.700 was very successful with it because he spent 00:33:15.920 --> 00:33:16.420 5 hours a day or whatever working with it. 00:33:18.560 --> 00:33:19.060 And I think I would have to do, 00:33:21.180 --> 00:33:21.600 put in a similar amount of effort to get this 00:33:23.600 --> 00:33:24.100 kind of benefits that he gained from it. 00:33:26.480 --> 00:33:26.980 I'm waiting for somebody to do a scientific 00:33:29.200 --> 00:33:29.700 study, controlled trials to see, 00:33:31.720 --> 00:33:32.220 to prove whether there's a real benefit. 00:33:37.900 --> 00:33:38.400 [Speaker 2]: Oh, yeah. So with the Zettelkasten, 00:33:41.120 --> 00:33:41.320 one of the things where you have the 1 for the 00:33:42.180 --> 00:33:42.680 sections, and then the 1.1, 00:33:47.160 --> 00:33:47.480 or you know how the notes that it does that's 00:33:48.740 --> 00:33:49.240 different. The denote, 00:33:52.880 --> 00:33:53.380 it has the ability to use a hierarchy manage, 00:33:55.480 --> 00:33:55.640 which Org-ROM does everything it can to 00:33:57.380 --> 00:33:57.560 eliminate. But you can use them both in 00:33:59.140 --> 00:33:59.640 tandem. They call it signatures. 00:34:04.820 --> 00:34:05.160 And to me, 1 of the cool features of denote 00:34:06.820 --> 00:34:07.120 would be being able to use like the 00:34:09.780 --> 00:34:10.280 signatures for the things that make sense. 00:34:13.440 --> 00:34:13.860 Like 1 of the ideas is if you don't exactly 00:34:14.960 --> 00:34:15.100 know where this is, but you know, 00:34:15.920 --> 00:34:16.239 it goes to the section, 00:34:17.060 --> 00:34:17.560 you can just use the signature. 00:34:19.760 --> 00:34:20.080 Maybe don't even have too much of a file 00:34:22.679 --> 00:34:23.179 name. Like oh, this is just another thought 00:34:28.199 --> 00:34:28.420 on, well you wouldn't use it for this, 00:34:30.360 --> 00:34:30.719 but like my day went good for reasons 1, 00:34:33.040 --> 00:34:33.380 2, 3, 4, 5, and you could just use the denote 00:34:34.639 --> 00:34:34.920 signature to do 1, 2, 3, 00:34:37.659 --> 00:34:37.800 4, 5, just as you have new ideas on like a 00:34:41.840 --> 00:34:42.040 subject, or like cars are cars are not this 00:34:43.659 --> 00:34:44.580 car is nice because of reasons XYZ, 00:34:46.920 --> 00:34:47.219 or these types of four-wheelers are nice 00:34:48.940 --> 00:34:49.080 because of XYZ. And you could just keep on 00:34:50.760 --> 00:34:50.980 doing that rather than having to get a new 00:34:52.120 --> 00:34:52.620 name for each 1 of those files. 00:34:55.280 --> 00:34:55.520 Or you could choose not to have it, 00:34:57.780 --> 00:34:58.280 but the ability to have it optionally in, 00:35:01.020 --> 00:35:01.520 to me, sounds like a really nice combo. 00:35:03.000 --> 00:35:03.200 Because then you 00:35:06.140 --> 00:35:06.420 [Speaker 0]: could read. I agree. Yeah, 00:35:08.800 --> 00:35:09.020 I've actually imposed a hierarchy in my 00:35:10.320 --> 00:35:10.820 Zettelkasten and Orgrim. 00:35:17.680 --> 00:35:18.180 I just, I can't imagine having random ideas. 00:35:21.200 --> 00:35:21.700 They need some kind of structure. 00:35:27.500 --> 00:35:27.840 Always have some kind of parent node to 00:35:28.420 --> 00:35:28.920 attach them to. 00:35:32.740 --> 00:35:32.960 [Speaker 2]: With the workflow I'm trying to develop with 00:35:34.440 --> 00:35:34.840 it, part of it is I'm just trying to optimize 00:35:36.820 --> 00:35:37.080 the workflow before it feels really, 00:35:38.480 --> 00:35:38.560 really, really good, and I don't want to 00:35:39.720 --> 00:35:40.220 tweak with it, or I don't know. 00:35:42.480 --> 00:35:42.980 Or maybe I don't always need the tool, 00:35:45.780 --> 00:35:46.020 but some of the distinctions it seems like 00:35:52.400 --> 00:35:52.580 that I want is, I want a daily journal For 00:35:53.100 --> 00:35:53.600 your stream of thoughts, 00:35:56.000 --> 00:35:56.480 then I want a separate 1 for your to do list 00:35:57.980 --> 00:35:58.480 because what you like. 00:36:01.240 --> 00:36:01.440 You want very different properties for each 00:36:03.040 --> 00:36:03.540 of those. Like for to-do lists, 00:36:04.820 --> 00:36:05.320 you want hierarchical, 00:36:11.260 --> 00:36:11.760 limited. But if you have more than 3 priority 00:36:13.660 --> 00:36:13.820 items, you don't have a priority item and 00:36:14.820 --> 00:36:15.040 it's not a good to-do list. 00:36:18.480 --> 00:36:18.980 It's just unordered thoughts. 00:36:23.480 --> 00:36:23.680 [Speaker 0]: it's a wishful list, because you won't get 00:36:26.000 --> 00:36:26.500 most of those things done beyond the first 3. 00:36:28.180 --> 00:36:28.380 [Speaker 2]: You're trying to- So And then when you're 00:36:30.600 --> 00:36:31.100 trying to do the other stuff, 00:36:31.980 --> 00:36:32.480 the stream of thoughts, 00:36:34.640 --> 00:36:35.080 all that stuff I probably don't want to go 00:36:36.720 --> 00:36:36.900 straight into like my Zettelkasten because 00:36:37.440 --> 00:36:37.940 some of those problems, 00:36:42.660 --> 00:36:43.160 like it's noisy, it might be redundant, 00:36:45.300 --> 00:36:45.520 you don't know how it fits into it because 00:36:46.920 --> 00:36:47.080 you haven't done that processing on it. 00:36:47.960 --> 00:36:48.460 This hasn't been refined. 00:36:53.000 --> 00:36:53.140 So, like, you don't want to refine it. 00:36:54.960 --> 00:36:55.320 Like, I find that spell checking is 00:36:56.680 --> 00:36:56.920 detrimental to me. I don't want spell 00:36:58.520 --> 00:36:58.840 checking. I don't want spell checking. 00:37:00.200 --> 00:37:00.600 I don't want syntax highlighting. 00:37:04.040 --> 00:37:04.540 I just want to talk or to just write. 00:37:07.020 --> 00:37:07.520 If I have mistakes, I can turn on that later, 00:37:08.800 --> 00:37:09.220 do it. Because otherwise, 00:37:13.340 --> 00:37:13.740 it will distract me and makes that process 00:37:20.140 --> 00:37:20.280 [Speaker 0]: Yep, yep, definitely interferes with the 00:37:20.280 --> 00:37:20.780 flow. 00:37:24.840 --> 00:37:25.080 [Speaker 2]: worse. So yeah, when you're so yeah when 00:37:28.080 --> 00:37:28.440 you're doing the getting things done like 00:37:30.040 --> 00:37:30.240 that's why I want them would be want would 00:37:32.360 --> 00:37:32.600 want them in separate files is that you want 00:37:34.160 --> 00:37:34.660 them like ordered, numbered lists, 00:37:38.980 --> 00:37:39.480 smaller. And then with the other, 00:37:40.440 --> 00:37:40.800 with the stream of thought, 00:37:42.340 --> 00:37:42.840 with journaling, you'd want it just 00:37:45.240 --> 00:37:45.740 unordered. Thoughts land wherever they may. 00:37:49.140 --> 00:37:49.640 Maybe not even like machine-generated 00:37:51.400 --> 00:37:51.660 timestamps, So you don't even have to worry 00:37:52.440 --> 00:37:52.940 about the names of it, 00:37:55.080 --> 00:37:55.380 as an example. So yeah, 00:37:56.960 --> 00:37:57.160 very different properties for what you want 00:37:58.260 --> 00:37:58.760 for both of those modalities. 00:38:06.340 --> 00:38:06.440 [Speaker 0]: So you saw, perhaps, in that snippet that I 00:38:07.860 --> 00:38:08.360 had that at, you know, 00:38:10.440 --> 00:38:10.580 working on my to-do list at the start of the 00:38:13.080 --> 00:38:13.580 day, but in a certain sense that is not ideal 00:38:20.320 --> 00:38:20.820 time. I really haven't optimized the timing 00:38:22.640 --> 00:38:23.040 of assembly of the to-do list, 00:38:24.020 --> 00:38:24.520 I think, in retrospect. 00:38:27.540 --> 00:38:27.880 It's just by lifelong habit. 00:38:29.060 --> 00:38:29.560 I do that at the beginning of the day, 00:38:32.860 --> 00:38:33.000 but probably would be better to do it at 00:38:34.360 --> 00:38:34.860 night or the night before. 00:38:38.000 --> 00:38:38.500 And so you sort of prime your brain to go, 00:38:41.180 --> 00:38:41.680 just get up and go, go after those items. 00:38:46.360 --> 00:38:46.680 You were, you maybe you want to revise the 00:38:49.120 --> 00:38:49.620 items a little bit after sleeping on it, 00:38:52.360 --> 00:38:52.820 but after your subconscious has worked on 00:38:57.500 --> 00:38:57.660 those items. Do you have a daily routine that 00:38:59.680 --> 00:38:59.900 you follow in terms of generating those kind 00:39:00.020 --> 00:39:00.520 of lists? 00:39:05.660 --> 00:39:06.160 [Speaker 2]: No. As I said, mostly I just got scaffolding 00:39:08.040 --> 00:39:08.300 for this stuff when I want to do it. 00:39:10.520 --> 00:39:10.760 I enjoy building the scaffolding and I know 00:39:12.340 --> 00:39:12.600 where the tools are when I need it. 00:39:14.540 --> 00:39:14.760 And I start using them when I need it, 00:39:17.040 --> 00:39:17.540 but I don't have it too consistent. 00:39:29.720 --> 00:39:30.220 [Speaker 0]: So OK, so you've looked so far at denote and 00:39:35.300 --> 00:39:35.800 org-roam, and you're using k-outline. 00:39:39.520 --> 00:39:39.840 And are there other tools that you've 00:39:39.840 --> 00:39:40.340 explored? 00:39:44.380 --> 00:39:44.880 [Speaker 2]: I've tried using whisper.el 00:39:50.720 --> 00:39:50.920 and nerd dictation to do What your talk was 00:39:53.560 --> 00:39:53.760 about? Speaking speech to text to see how 00:39:56.720 --> 00:39:56.840 that changes Because it does change what you 00:40:01.020 --> 00:40:01.120 think What you write down when you speak it 00:40:05.080 --> 00:40:05.500 rather than write it. Same thing as when 00:40:07.420 --> 00:40:07.540 you're thinking about when you eliminate the 00:40:08.940 --> 00:40:09.440 editing, it changes the way you write. 00:40:11.900 --> 00:40:12.260 When you have the spell checking, 00:40:14.100 --> 00:40:14.340 it changes the way you write to a much 00:40:20.280 --> 00:40:20.600 smaller degree. But that's the stuff I really 00:40:23.560 --> 00:40:24.060 haven't gotten working as well, 00:40:25.120 --> 00:40:25.620 or underdeveloped. 00:40:30.160 --> 00:40:30.660 [Speaker 0]: So the dictated text winds up, 00:40:37.740 --> 00:40:37.900 I'll move it in. Often I move it into on 00:40:40.920 --> 00:40:41.200 Overleaf, this website for a lot of tech 00:40:44.080 --> 00:40:44.580 documents. I have a plug-in for Rightful, 00:40:50.520 --> 00:40:51.020 And I use that to clean up my word choices 00:40:56.160 --> 00:40:56.660 and some grammar. And I use Grammarly. 00:41:00.920 --> 00:41:01.080 I'll copy and paste. It just depends on the 00:41:01.680 --> 00:41:02.080 nature of the writing, 00:41:05.720 --> 00:41:06.220 how serious it is, how polished it has to be. 00:41:12.620 --> 00:41:13.080 If I, if it's really vital, 00:41:14.440 --> 00:41:14.800 like for a grant application or something, 00:41:16.880 --> 00:41:17.380 I'll paste that into Grammarly and work on 00:41:22.160 --> 00:41:22.540 trying to get the writing level to the lowest 00:41:26.100 --> 00:41:26.280 possible grade level to make it as clear as 00:41:30.040 --> 00:41:30.220 possible to as wide of an audience as 00:41:34.740 --> 00:41:34.900 possible. 1 of the things I kind 00:41:38.000 --> 00:41:38.500 [Speaker 2]: of wish with all the spell checking grammarly 00:41:40.440 --> 00:41:40.940 is I kind of wish you could say, 00:41:48.620 --> 00:41:49.120 hey, what would the subtle cast in person 00:41:52.120 --> 00:41:52.620 think of what I wrote who what would einstein 00:41:54.200 --> 00:41:54.400 think of what I wrote because rather than 00:41:57.340 --> 00:41:57.660 just trying to make 1 uniform way of talking 00:41:59.960 --> 00:42:00.440 it's like people talk differently and that's 00:42:04.080 --> 00:42:04.240 an advantage and I can't I really wish like 00:42:07.440 --> 00:42:07.820 you maybe these GPT programs could do well. 00:42:10.840 --> 00:42:11.000 I really wish it could help you with the 00:42:16.160 --> 00:42:16.420 grammar, that maybe give you thoughts on what 00:42:18.460 --> 00:42:18.720 your notes are. What does this person think 00:42:20.220 --> 00:42:20.380 of your thoughts? What does this person think 00:42:20.457 --> 00:42:20.464 of your thoughts? Well, 00:42:20.640 --> 00:42:20.940 does this person think of your thoughts? 00:42:22.280 --> 00:42:22.540 Well, does this person think of your 00:42:22.540 --> 00:42:23.040 thoughts? 00:42:27.720 --> 00:42:28.140 [Speaker 0]: That's true. Yeah, I could probably do that 00:42:31.560 --> 00:42:32.060 even through chat GDP now. 00:42:35.140 --> 00:42:35.640 I haven't spent time trying that out. 00:42:39.820 --> 00:42:40.320 But I bet that capabilities are already. 00:42:44.340 --> 00:42:44.480 It would be nice if it was like built in to 00:42:46.240 --> 00:42:46.740 Emacs, right? It's a package. 00:42:49.020 --> 00:42:49.520 Yeah. That'd be very cool. 00:42:52.260 --> 00:42:52.660 [Speaker 2]: Grammarly have some sort of, 00:42:55.040 --> 00:42:55.320 like, the grammar where they help you the way 00:42:57.660 --> 00:42:58.040 you write. Like, for instance, 00:42:59.080 --> 00:42:59.580 removing redundant words. 00:43:02.720 --> 00:43:03.220 And Yeah, it's supposed to be like beyond 00:43:04.820 --> 00:43:05.320 just spell checking, right? 00:43:08.240 --> 00:43:08.740 [Speaker 0]: Right. So, and there's actually a Grammarly 00:43:13.300 --> 00:43:13.520 package for Emacs, and you get some of the 00:43:14.540 --> 00:43:15.040 functionality out of it. 00:43:17.420 --> 00:43:17.560 I've paid for the subscription to get the 00:43:21.240 --> 00:43:21.460 advanced features, but I've maybe I don't 00:43:23.300 --> 00:43:23.800 have my configuration set up correctly. 00:43:27.280 --> 00:43:27.780 I just found it was easier to copy and paste 00:43:31.780 --> 00:43:32.280 a paragraph at a time into the desktop 00:43:36.460 --> 00:43:36.780 application and it will go through and find 00:43:38.900 --> 00:43:39.400 those redundancies, junk English. 00:43:48.080 --> 00:43:48.580 [Speaker 2]: It would be really interesting trying to have 00:43:52.640 --> 00:43:52.760 1 of these That was my problem with a lot of 00:43:55.840 --> 00:43:56.120 the grammarly type Programs is I'm I want 00:43:57.620 --> 00:43:57.900 something that would do that like be real 00:43:59.720 --> 00:43:59.980 interesting seeing 1 that's like an old 00:44:03.840 --> 00:44:03.960 English type thing or like Lumen person where 00:44:06.540 --> 00:44:07.040 it's just like how does this person write and 00:44:09.960 --> 00:44:10.160 Because it would be it would spit out 00:44:11.160 --> 00:44:11.660 something a lot different. 00:44:13.440 --> 00:44:13.680 Just different. Like, yeah, 00:44:14.440 --> 00:44:14.940 you put different people. 00:44:17.760 --> 00:44:17.900 [Speaker 0]: Most definitely, yes. They would have a 00:44:20.280 --> 00:44:20.740 completely different thinking and writing 00:44:28.740 --> 00:44:28.940 style. And so the purpose of doing that would 00:44:34.300 --> 00:44:34.640 be to stimulate A new way of thinking or 00:44:36.340 --> 00:44:36.840 writing I guess on your part 00:44:40.600 --> 00:44:40.960 [Speaker 2]: the purpose of writing is to communicate It 00:44:43.540 --> 00:44:43.740 and writing you know 1 of the targets for 00:44:47.020 --> 00:44:47.320 that could be yourself so it's like I'd much 00:44:50.380 --> 00:44:50.880 rather have a comprehensible sentence than a 00:44:57.500 --> 00:44:57.720 truly correct 1. 1 of those is far more 00:45:00.780 --> 00:45:01.280 valuable and far more correct English or 00:45:06.560 --> 00:45:07.060 [Speaker 0]: Yeah, one's more effective at communicating 00:45:08.860 --> 00:45:09.360 to yourself. Yes. 00:45:11.320 --> 00:45:11.720 [Speaker 2]: language. Well, one's using the tool, 00:45:15.300 --> 00:45:15.520 one's the other you're trying to be used by 00:45:19.080 --> 00:45:19.580 the tool. And they're not the same thing. 00:45:29.780 --> 00:45:30.280 [Speaker 0]: That's true. Well, I view myself as being 00:45:35.140 --> 00:45:35.640 responsible for my writing and being the 00:45:40.200 --> 00:45:40.520 final judge of it and as a scientist I have 00:45:49.060 --> 00:45:49.300 to my mantra is it's got to be clear and then 00:45:52.600 --> 00:45:53.100 precise and then concise in that order. 00:45:56.580 --> 00:45:56.760 And I claim that, you know, 00:45:58.440 --> 00:45:58.780 that's the order with which I go through 00:46:01.500 --> 00:46:01.780 doing revisions. Clarity is, 00:46:02.500 --> 00:46:02.880 you know, if it's not clear, 00:46:05.420 --> 00:46:05.600 it's useless. It's got to be clear to me, 00:46:08.240 --> 00:46:08.740 but it's got to be clear to a lot of people 00:46:10.920 --> 00:46:11.420 for whom English is not a first language. 00:46:15.520 --> 00:46:15.720 And then after that, I got to worry about 00:46:19.020 --> 00:46:19.520 precision and then conciseness, 00:46:24.140 --> 00:46:24.280 but those can't be done at the expense of 00:46:27.720 --> 00:46:28.220 clarity. So it's quite a battle. 00:46:32.320 --> 00:46:32.640 [Speaker 2]: That goes back on the to-do list, 00:46:35.440 --> 00:46:35.860 where it's like if you have more than 3 items 00:46:39.480 --> 00:46:39.660 like here the purpose of doing that is to 00:46:43.080 --> 00:46:43.580 help or grant of a to-do list is help is to 00:46:45.480 --> 00:46:45.680 Have you help choose what you're going to do 00:46:47.680 --> 00:46:47.840 for the day. Which is why if you have more 00:46:50.660 --> 00:46:50.860 than 3 items, if you have 50 items on there, 00:46:52.860 --> 00:46:53.320 you're not going to get 50 of those items 00:46:55.920 --> 00:46:56.040 done. So maybe you pick the easiest ones to 00:46:58.620 --> 00:46:59.020 do, not necessarily the ones that you want or 00:47:03.340 --> 00:47:03.580 need to be done. So it's like the process of 00:47:06.200 --> 00:47:06.380 choosing those, like, I don't know, 00:47:07.640 --> 00:47:08.140 like I found that a very good rules, 00:47:10.800 --> 00:47:11.300 like up to 3 priority items if you, 00:47:13.260 --> 00:47:13.440 and then also when you look back and you see 00:47:14.440 --> 00:47:14.940 that you did those 3 items, 00:47:18.460 --> 00:47:18.680 Who cares about this? I'd rather get those 3 00:47:20.080 --> 00:47:20.580 items done than any number of secondary 00:47:20.640 --> 00:47:21.140 tasks. 00:47:26.320 --> 00:47:26.820 [Speaker 0]: Yes, I, yeah, you're very, 00:47:28.440 --> 00:47:28.940 very right about that. 00:47:32.380 --> 00:47:32.640 I don't, I used to, you know, 00:47:36.400 --> 00:47:36.900 use a pattern of assigning letters. 00:47:39.440 --> 00:47:39.720 And so you have like, you know, 00:47:41.280 --> 00:47:41.780 based on like a hierarchy of, 00:47:43.340 --> 00:47:43.840 you've got the urgent and important, 00:47:47.300 --> 00:47:47.800 of course, that you got to deal with those. 00:47:50.280 --> 00:47:50.780 And then the next thing down is the important 00:48:00.060 --> 00:48:00.300 and so on. But I tend to just generate these 00:48:03.600 --> 00:48:04.000 terribly long lists that most of those items 00:48:06.260 --> 00:48:06.760 would go on what is known as a grass catchers 00:48:09.180 --> 00:48:09.680 list of things that you may get to someday, 00:48:11.780 --> 00:48:12.280 but there's no way you can get to them today. 00:48:16.120 --> 00:48:16.620 But I feel compelled, I need to capture them. 00:48:18.260 --> 00:48:18.760 I may want to do them eventually. 00:48:20.920 --> 00:48:21.420 They wind up on my list. 00:48:24.660 --> 00:48:24.800 [Speaker 2]: Oh yeah, my idea on that is like with a 00:48:26.480 --> 00:48:26.980 Zettelkasten where you have the day thoughts 00:48:29.380 --> 00:48:29.580 and the day journal, then you have your 00:48:31.800 --> 00:48:32.160 Zettelkasten which I don't think should have 00:48:34.740 --> 00:48:34.960 too close of a connection because one's a lot 00:48:37.940 --> 00:48:38.440 more, what's the word? 00:48:40.080 --> 00:48:40.580 [Speaker 0]: It's a knowledge base. 00:48:43.940 --> 00:48:44.440 [Speaker 2]: Optimized. Yes, one's more processed. 00:48:45.280 --> 00:48:45.760 Yeah, that's the word. 00:48:47.040 --> 00:48:47.440 Yeah, one's actually much more processed. 00:48:50.220 --> 00:48:50.640 The other is you don't want that process 00:48:52.840 --> 00:48:53.240 because you want it to flow from your head 00:48:54.480 --> 00:48:54.980 with as little friction as possible. 00:48:59.440 --> 00:48:59.940 The other 1 you want to be processed so that 00:49:01.800 --> 00:49:02.120 when you look it up and stuff like that's 00:49:04.840 --> 00:49:05.280 more efficient Same thing with your to-do 00:49:06.380 --> 00:49:06.680 things. So like oh, yeah, 00:49:09.440 --> 00:49:09.640 I guess there's 1 more Category like I 00:49:11.780 --> 00:49:11.980 thought I found my 3 favorite way rather than 00:49:15.720 --> 00:49:16.220 like priority 123 is primary tasks which 00:49:17.960 --> 00:49:18.280 basically generally goes up to 3, 00:49:20.380 --> 00:49:20.460 secondary tasks, and then I like to have a 00:49:22.540 --> 00:49:23.040 third category, unplanned tasks, 00:49:25.840 --> 00:49:26.180 and I just have those wrote down in a heading 00:49:28.520 --> 00:49:28.900 in an org mode file, and then I put the tasks 00:49:32.160 --> 00:49:32.660 in there, rather than using the agenda, 00:49:33.800 --> 00:49:34.040 like too much, I don't know, 00:49:40.240 --> 00:49:40.740 just I found that that was my favorite way of 00:49:43.480 --> 00:49:43.820 doing it and then you have like another file 00:49:47.840 --> 00:49:48.000 that would just be your dump of anything you 00:49:51.440 --> 00:49:51.660 want to do and that would be like that you 00:49:57.040 --> 00:49:57.540 could pull from to get your day or I guess 00:49:59.240 --> 00:49:59.440 something that's actually better than a day 00:50:01.560 --> 00:50:01.720 is doing it all by a week at a time I found 00:50:03.160 --> 00:50:03.660 that that's actually a lot nicer because 00:50:06.600 --> 00:50:06.840 thinking about what you do in a week seems 00:50:09.480 --> 00:50:09.840 like a nicer unit, where you have a week, 00:50:10.520 --> 00:50:11.020 then you have your day, 00:50:13.360 --> 00:50:13.780 and then you have the 3 categories of 00:50:16.500 --> 00:50:17.000 priority, secondary, and unplanned. 00:50:20.860 --> 00:50:20.920 At least that's been my favorite iteration on 00:50:30.840 --> 00:50:31.340 [Speaker 0]: thought process workflow. 00:50:31.500 --> 00:50:31.640 [Speaker 2]: the week of the to-do I had 00:50:33.820 --> 00:50:34.320 [Speaker 0]: a colleague that was very effective at 00:50:37.280 --> 00:50:37.780 planning on a weekly basis and he would just 00:50:41.580 --> 00:50:41.900 get his weekly list of things to get done and 00:50:43.640 --> 00:50:43.860 he was very good at pounding through that 00:50:45.380 --> 00:50:45.880 list and getting them done. 00:50:49.400 --> 00:50:49.740 I have been too much of a day-oriented person 00:50:54.020 --> 00:50:54.200 and a week-oriented person to adapt his 00:50:56.760 --> 00:50:57.260 approach, but I've been considering that too. 00:51:03.080 --> 00:51:03.520 I think what I don't do enough of is pulling 00:51:05.640 --> 00:51:06.140 back to the month level, 00:51:08.100 --> 00:51:08.600 semester level, year level, 00:51:10.900 --> 00:51:11.400 5 year level, 10 year level. 00:51:11.880 --> 00:51:12.380 And... 00:51:16.000 --> 00:51:16.200 [Speaker 2]: That's the advantage of finding it by a week 00:51:17.960 --> 00:51:18.120 is like you can have like so you'd have your 00:51:20.060 --> 00:51:20.560 week and then maybe you have like 1 section 00:51:24.440 --> 00:51:24.660 after Friday or last day of the week and this 00:51:27.660 --> 00:51:28.160 is like your this is just your like staging 00:51:30.300 --> 00:51:30.460 so this is where you stage all the tasks and 00:51:32.560 --> 00:51:32.720 then what like you can just stay in your 00:51:37.020 --> 00:51:37.280 staging write them all down and then use alt 00:51:39.860 --> 00:51:40.040 and your arrow keys to quickly reorder all of 00:51:43.340 --> 00:51:43.640 them in the week and then when you're looking 00:51:45.800 --> 00:51:46.300 at 1 day and you're just looking at ordering 00:51:48.820 --> 00:51:48.960 everything well it makes a lot of sense when 00:51:51.720 --> 00:51:51.960 you just say, I don't really want to do that. 00:51:53.160 --> 00:51:53.660 Like I want this done this week. 00:51:56.260 --> 00:51:56.500 I don't necessarily want it done on this day. 00:51:58.520 --> 00:51:58.740 So it just, that's why I found that the week 00:52:00.280 --> 00:52:00.780 approach works a lot nicer even. 00:52:09.920 --> 00:52:10.260 [Speaker 0]: of a staging time you like schedule some time 00:52:11.880 --> 00:52:12.380 in your week to do the staging. 00:52:14.620 --> 00:52:14.960 [Speaker 2]: Yeah. Is that way The staging is more of just 00:52:16.840 --> 00:52:16.960 like, these are the things I would like to 00:52:19.440 --> 00:52:19.940 get done. And then when you schedule it, 00:52:23.360 --> 00:52:23.800 then you kind of schedule it by just using 00:52:26.240 --> 00:52:26.740 the Alt-Left key, the Alt-Arrow keys to just, 00:52:28.380 --> 00:52:28.580 oh, I want this done. It looks like this 00:52:29.860 --> 00:52:30.040 would work really good on this day. 00:52:31.620 --> 00:52:32.120 This 1 looks like it would work on this day. 00:52:38.800 --> 00:52:39.300 [Speaker 0]: A, you still utilize org agenda? 00:52:45.140 --> 00:52:45.640 [Speaker 2]: I try to, I don't know, 00:52:49.120 --> 00:52:49.540 I found that it works at least better without 00:52:52.120 --> 00:52:52.620 it. Yeah, that's fine. 00:52:54.020 --> 00:52:54.340 Because that way I also get a log of 00:53:00.020 --> 00:53:00.140 everything I've done, which I can't find a 00:53:03.240 --> 00:53:03.400 way that, it seems easier to just make new 00:53:06.380 --> 00:53:06.760 files for it. And rather than, 00:53:08.160 --> 00:53:08.660 like you could use it with Org Agenda, 00:53:11.540 --> 00:53:12.040 but like 1 of the things that you want is 00:53:14.040 --> 00:53:14.540 with it is to look back at it, 00:53:18.380 --> 00:53:18.880 reflect. And so like if you have the, 00:53:23.360 --> 00:53:23.640 if you have, if you open up the file with 2 00:53:25.580 --> 00:53:25.760 levels or 3 levels of headings to where you 00:53:26.780 --> 00:53:27.040 just see the priority task, 00:53:29.800 --> 00:53:30.300 you can get a very nice overview of saying, 00:53:33.860 --> 00:53:34.360 I did my priority task this day. 00:53:38.760 --> 00:53:39.100 So you get the numbers next to the things. 00:53:40.200 --> 00:53:40.700 And so you can easily just say, 00:53:41.820 --> 00:53:41.980 I've done this. I mean, 00:53:43.360 --> 00:53:43.520 it would be nice if I could figure out a way 00:53:45.240 --> 00:53:45.740 of doing agenda to give me percentages. 00:53:50.680 --> 00:53:51.180 But I haven't figured that out. 00:53:54.280 --> 00:53:54.780 Seeing the granular level, 00:53:57.100 --> 00:53:57.340 I can easily scan that with my eyes. 00:53:59.720 --> 00:53:59.900 So I just did it by hand rather than the 00:53:59.900 --> 00:54:00.400 agenda. 00:54:06.420 --> 00:54:06.600 [Speaker 0]: Yeah, I've, I've tried to use agenda a few 00:54:10.400 --> 00:54:10.900 times and pretty seriously, 00:54:14.800 --> 00:54:15.060 but I keep bouncing off it. 00:54:17.920 --> 00:54:18.160 I think I get too many things built in or 00:54:21.200 --> 00:54:21.700 scheduled and I just don't get to them. 00:54:26.000 --> 00:54:26.500 I feel bad about it and I wind up abandoning 00:54:31.220 --> 00:54:31.500 it. So that's 1 area where there's probably 00:54:34.820 --> 00:54:35.040 some potential for optimizing and making that 00:54:40.260 --> 00:54:40.440 work better. There's a lot of customizing you 00:54:42.280 --> 00:54:42.780 can do with Agenda. It's amazing. 00:54:44.540 --> 00:54:45.040 [Speaker 2]: For me, it was though, 00:54:48.480 --> 00:54:48.980 I wanted there to be a separation between the 00:54:52.120 --> 00:54:52.420 daily to-do lists and like your grab bag 00:54:54.480 --> 00:54:54.600 which I think agenda works a lot better for a 00:54:58.040 --> 00:54:58.440 grab bag. I want a nice way of looking back 00:55:01.560 --> 00:55:02.060 at my to-do daily to-do logs. 00:55:05.980 --> 00:55:06.340 So I kind of want them to be separated, 00:55:08.480 --> 00:55:08.980 so I just did them separate. 00:55:12.540 --> 00:55:12.680 With the agenda, I could never figure out 00:55:14.060 --> 00:55:14.560 exactly how I want that to work, 00:55:15.620 --> 00:55:16.120 how the files would look, 00:55:18.580 --> 00:55:18.960 and how all the Emacs settings would interact 00:55:21.300 --> 00:55:21.660 with it. I mean, I'm sure I could, 00:55:28.780 --> 00:55:29.160 but that's why I opted for weekly files. 00:55:34.960 --> 00:55:35.140 Or at least That's my most refined idea on 00:55:35.280 --> 00:55:35.780 the process. 00:55:41.000 --> 00:55:41.400 [Speaker 0]: That's a good idea. So I've taken my approach 00:55:43.940 --> 00:55:44.440 is a little different that I'm generating 00:55:46.760 --> 00:55:46.960 this text on a daily basis and popping it 00:55:52.660 --> 00:55:52.900 into this to 1 document file per day and a 00:55:59.020 --> 00:55:59.300 like a diary on Overleaf as a big so it winds 00:56:01.950 --> 00:56:02.450 [Speaker 2]: sections 00:56:05.440 --> 00:56:05.600 [Speaker 0]: up being 365 and where every month is a 00:56:11.400 --> 00:56:11.640 chapter and it's compiled quickly enough even 00:56:13.100 --> 00:56:13.480 though it's often up to 1,000 00:56:14.780 --> 00:56:15.280 pages long by the end of the year. 00:56:17.220 --> 00:56:17.500 And I have all these, of course, 00:56:19.240 --> 00:56:19.700 with the PDF, I can search through it. 00:56:22.540 --> 00:56:22.760 So that's not as you can't do the kind of 00:56:24.380 --> 00:56:24.560 really sophisticated searching that you can 00:56:29.340 --> 00:56:29.840 do with Org Mode. But just doing that, 00:56:33.620 --> 00:56:33.800 It sure has been very helpful in digging up 00:56:39.440 --> 00:56:39.680 information, like the little protocols on how 00:56:42.960 --> 00:56:43.460 I attack, accomplish a certain task that I 00:56:45.420 --> 00:56:45.920 have to do a year later, 00:56:50.440 --> 00:56:50.540 or to have a record of what I did on a 00:56:54.220 --> 00:56:54.400 certain day and then somebody above me might 00:56:57.100 --> 00:56:57.340 be trying to hold me to account what got 00:56:59.580 --> 00:57:00.080 done. I can look that up pretty very quickly. 00:57:05.140 --> 00:57:05.320 It's documented. I find that to be just any 00:57:09.520 --> 00:57:09.840 kind of thorough documentation system is very 00:57:16.080 --> 00:57:16.320 [Speaker 2]: I also mess with having it all in 1 file 00:57:17.440 --> 00:57:17.940 rather than by a weak file. 00:57:20.140 --> 00:57:20.640 [Speaker 0]: useful. And at least what I did. 00:57:21.820 --> 00:57:22.320 I ran into trouble with, 00:57:25.380 --> 00:57:25.880 like, once you get a lot of items, 00:57:27.040 --> 00:57:27.540 like if you have 1,000 00:57:30.580 --> 00:57:30.780 items, headings, I've had org files with 00:57:33.680 --> 00:57:34.180 1,000 headings. It can be so hard to scroll 00:57:38.960 --> 00:57:39.280 through. Maybe it's some limitations I'm run 00:57:42.240 --> 00:57:42.740 into with the Emacs being single threaded. 00:57:49.120 --> 00:57:49.620 [Speaker 2]: At least with, yeah. Yeah. 00:57:52.420 --> 00:57:52.920 It was like, that's 1 of the things is like, 00:57:54.240 --> 00:57:54.520 how exactly do you want this, 00:57:55.920 --> 00:57:56.120 the information structured because it can 00:57:56.820 --> 00:57:57.320 change how it's retrieved. 00:58:00.260 --> 00:58:00.760 [Speaker 0]: Ooh, most definitely. Most definitely. 00:58:08.200 --> 00:58:08.560 [Speaker 2]: So as an example, when I was doing the daily 00:58:14.760 --> 00:58:14.960 logs and I put it all in the date and then 00:58:15.700 --> 00:58:16.200 the priority, secondary, 00:58:21.980 --> 00:58:22.100 unplanned tasks, and then I had it stay at 00:58:24.940 --> 00:58:25.120 that, get auto expanded by that level by 00:58:27.280 --> 00:58:27.780 default so I didn't see the individual task 00:58:30.720 --> 00:58:30.860 and you and then I had a but And then it 00:58:33.120 --> 00:58:33.420 would say like I complete 205 or something 00:58:34.440 --> 00:58:34.940 like that of secondary tasks. 00:58:38.000 --> 00:58:38.400 And then just being able just to quickly scan 00:58:39.740 --> 00:58:40.240 all the days and say, oh, 00:58:42.960 --> 00:58:43.260 it just, the feedback you get from that is 00:58:46.300 --> 00:58:46.500 worth a lot. And I don't think it's 00:58:47.920 --> 00:58:48.120 something, it's not something I could think 00:58:49.320 --> 00:58:49.820 of how you do an agenda. 00:58:53.300 --> 00:58:53.540 Even though I got done in the text files just 00:58:57.260 --> 00:58:57.400 because you get that doesn't expand all the 00:58:59.580 --> 00:58:59.800 way so you so you can quickly just see on 00:59:01.940 --> 00:59:02.140 this day I did this well on this day I did 00:59:05.800 --> 00:59:06.300 this well all within and 4 lines per day. 00:59:11.040 --> 00:59:11.420 So it's not, that doesn't, 00:59:12.920 --> 00:59:13.420 that's not very visually verbose. 00:59:16.920 --> 00:59:17.080 Probably about as visually verbose as you 00:59:18.640 --> 00:59:19.140 want it. They're not super long. 00:59:23.000 --> 00:59:23.200 You easily see the 2 of 3 and stuff like that 00:59:24.920 --> 00:59:25.420 that you get done so you can quickly and say, 00:59:29.380 --> 00:59:29.600 oh well, these are the days where I got my 00:59:31.300 --> 00:59:31.800 primary tasks done or this week, 00:59:36.340 --> 00:59:36.500 and this day I didn't do it well and you 00:59:38.300 --> 00:59:38.740 could helps you correlate like your feelings 00:59:42.440 --> 00:59:42.620 with your to-do lists and journals and 00:59:42.620 --> 00:59:43.120 whatnot. 00:59:48.940 --> 00:59:49.440 [Speaker 0]: Yeah I think that's very powerful. 00:59:53.300 --> 00:59:53.800 Because it's summarizing capability. 00:59:57.560 --> 00:59:58.060 It allows you to, you know, 01:00:00.656 --> 01:00:00.784 pull back and get an overview. 01:00:01.040 --> 01:00:01.540 Get an overview. 01:00:07.580 --> 01:00:08.080 [Speaker 2]: And yeah, as I said, it's like the feedback 01:00:10.600 --> 01:00:10.760 from that almost when I did that, 01:00:12.620 --> 01:00:12.800 it feels like half the reason or should be 01:00:14.580 --> 01:00:14.900 like half the reason is and it's something 01:00:19.120 --> 01:00:19.340 that I don't if you use the agenda as it is, 01:00:21.220 --> 01:00:21.360 you wouldn't, I don't know how you would get 01:00:23.160 --> 01:00:23.360 it, like saying, like looking at the week by 01:00:25.080 --> 01:00:25.580 week basis, breakdowns, 01:00:27.120 --> 01:00:27.620 you might be able to get like percentages, 01:00:30.400 --> 01:00:30.900 which would be nice. Like I did this well, 01:00:33.700 --> 01:00:34.120 or like habit, I don't, 01:00:35.640 --> 01:00:35.920 there might be things that could offer you 01:00:39.700 --> 01:00:40.200 but. Yeah, 01:00:46.780 --> 01:00:47.280 [Speaker 0]: so I'm pretty obsessed about tracking effort 01:00:48.560 --> 01:00:49.060 on various kinds of projects, 01:00:52.020 --> 01:00:52.520 or various kinds of activities, 01:00:57.880 --> 01:00:58.360 and to get some feedback in that regard. 01:00:59.500 --> 01:01:00.000 And then you, but you got the, 01:01:02.040 --> 01:01:02.540 So I define a project as anything that 01:01:06.300 --> 01:01:06.780 requires work at different points in time, 01:01:07.040 --> 01:01:07.540 more than 1 01:01:15.300 --> 01:01:15.520 [Speaker 2]: time. I'll email you my org mode template 01:01:17.560 --> 01:01:18.060 that I made that demonstrates that. 01:01:22.200 --> 01:01:22.700 I don't know if you, do you have your email 01:01:24.520 --> 01:01:25.020 in your talk notes or anything? 01:01:29.380 --> 01:01:29.700 [Speaker 0]: Okay. I think I should have it on the first 01:01:31.560 --> 01:01:32.060 slide. There should be my email address. 01:01:40.560 --> 01:01:41.060 I can add it to my talk notes. 01:01:46.920 --> 01:01:47.040 [Speaker 2]: Okay. Would you want me to show it to you at 01:01:48.940 --> 01:01:49.440 [Speaker 0]: that'd be great. 01:01:52.600 --> 01:01:53.100 [Speaker 2]: all? Sure, All right, let's see. 01:02:20.842 --> 01:02:20.905 I'm going to share screen button, 01:02:21.220 --> 01:02:21.520 right? There's a share screen button, 01:02:21.520 --> 01:02:22.020 right? 01:02:26.160 --> 01:02:26.660 [Speaker 0]: Yeah, so, let's see. 01:02:59.243 --> 01:02:59.743 [Speaker 2]: Yeah, I'm all. That's the right button. 01:03:04.640 --> 01:03:05.140 Can you not share the screen on this? 01:03:08.860 --> 01:03:09.360 [Speaker 0]: I have something going here. 01:03:13.900 --> 01:03:14.400 Let's see. I have, I see some stuff on here. 01:03:18.160 --> 01:03:18.660 Wonder if I'm still active. 01:03:21.180 --> 01:03:21.680 It shows share screen. 01:03:22.280 --> 01:03:22.780 Cancel. 01:03:28.260 --> 01:03:28.760 [Speaker 2]: Maybe they just did it through OBS. 01:03:47.280 --> 01:03:47.780 [Speaker 0]: Maybe I only have permission to share. 01:03:53.900 --> 01:03:54.400 I can put my email address in the chat. 01:03:59.440 --> 01:03:59.620 [Speaker 2]: I guess I'll just email it to you, 01:04:06.600 --> 01:04:06.840 but Let's see. Yeah, I think the way that 01:04:11.260 --> 01:04:11.460 they did it on the Any of the other videos if 01:04:13.780 --> 01:04:14.020 they shared the screen they just shared the 01:04:17.440 --> 01:04:17.560 webcam they just took over the webcam with 01:04:20.380 --> 01:04:20.880 OBS and shared what they wanted with it. 01:04:22.760 --> 01:04:23.260 [Speaker 0]: Oh, okay. 01:04:24.720 --> 01:04:25.180 [Speaker 2]: At least I'm guessing. 01:04:26.960 --> 01:04:27.460 Yeah, I'll give that to you. 01:04:31.080 --> 01:04:31.240 Okay. I guess I'll let you go watch the rest 01:04:32.240 --> 01:04:32.740 of the Emacs videos. 01:04:34.640 --> 01:04:35.140 [Speaker 0]: This has been a great conversation. 01:04:37.280 --> 01:04:37.780 Thank you very much. I appreciate your 01:04:39.620 --> 01:04:39.840 willingness to share your thoughts on this 01:04:42.980 --> 01:04:43.480 matter. This is vital, 01:04:48.260 --> 01:04:48.440 time management. It's a kind of key aspect of 01:04:48.440 --> 01:04:48.940 life. 01:04:54.680 --> 01:04:55.180 [Speaker 2]: Oh yeah. The way the how the function. 01:05:03.320 --> 01:05:03.820 Reasons to use emacs is to use the keyboard 01:05:08.240 --> 01:05:08.420 is. It's not to speed you up. 01:05:09.520 --> 01:05:10.020 Like, yeah, that's nice. 01:05:12.280 --> 01:05:12.780 But it keeps you in the stream, 01:05:25.400 --> 01:05:25.760 keeps you in the flow state and which then 01:05:32.780 --> 01:05:32.900 just makes you think better and yeah and the 01:05:35.540 --> 01:05:35.780 thing with that is you I have you I have no 01:05:37.480 --> 01:05:37.980 idea what the limits of that would be. 01:05:39.680 --> 01:05:40.020 Because you think, because yes, 01:05:42.740 --> 01:05:42.900 it's not about beating up how many words you 01:05:44.860 --> 01:05:45.060 say a minute. I mean that's nice and all, 01:05:46.680 --> 01:05:46.920 But when you start doing that, 01:05:48.340 --> 01:05:48.840 when you start removing all these friction 01:05:52.500 --> 01:05:53.000 points, all of a sudden the number, 01:05:57.800 --> 01:05:58.300 quality, and types of thoughts you get start 01:06:01.620 --> 01:06:02.120 [Speaker 0]: That's right. 01:06:03.480 --> 01:06:03.980 [Speaker 2]: increasing. Which is the goal. 01:06:14.960 --> 01:06:15.460 [Speaker 0]: Okay. Well, thank you very much. 01:06:17.760 --> 01:06:18.260 Enjoy the rest of the meeting. 01:06:19.280 --> 01:06:19.780 [Speaker 2]: Will do.